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Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist. Merry Christmas. Happy Christmas to those who celebrate.

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Speaker 1: We are returning with part two of our classic series

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Speaker 1: on the Dark Side of the Loom. We recommend you

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Speaker 1: listen to it while you're opening presents.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the question of where does all this stuff come from?

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Speaker 2: And where does it end up?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Did you get all the good stuff you wanted? Oh,

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Speaker 3: we hope you did. Did you give some cool presents away?

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Speaker 3: We know you did that? Part Well, this is just

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Speaker 3: an episode to remind you that there are some there's

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Speaker 3: some reality that we have to look at when we

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Speaker 3: take part in things like mass consumerism. And as fun

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Speaker 3: as it is and as nice as as it is,

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Speaker 3: there's just some stuff we should be aware of.

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Speaker 2: And as difficult it is to not participate in it

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Speaker 2: at all, as I'm certain comes up in these two episodes.

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Speaker 2: You know, I think we've talked about some folks who

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Speaker 2: tried this as an experiment and realized, like how nearly

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Speaker 2: impossible it is to remove mass production from one's life entirely.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I was talking with you guys off air

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Speaker 1: about this. You ever run into a piece of clothing

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Speaker 1: you love and you're like, whoa this jacket is amazing?

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Speaker 1: How can it be so affordable? In this part of

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Speaker 1: Dark Side of the Loom, we're talking about the hidden

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Speaker 1: cost to what is sometimes called fast fashion, the underbelly

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Speaker 1: of worldwide aesthetics and cosmetic industries, and how this global

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Speaker 1: process may affect wildlife and the world in which you

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Speaker 1: live in twenty twenty six and beyond.

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Speaker 2: So why don't we jump into part two of Dark

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Speaker 2: Side of the Loom already in progress.

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Speaker 4: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is

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Speaker 4: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 4: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 4: production of iHeart Radio.

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Speaker 3: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 3: my name is Nola.

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Speaker 1: They call me Ben. We are joined as always with

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Speaker 1: our super producer Paul, Mission Control decand most importantly, you

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Speaker 1: are you. You are here, and that makes this stuff

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Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. This is part two

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Speaker 1: of what turned out to be a continuing series on fashion,

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Speaker 1: The Dark Side of Fashion. In our previous episode, we

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Speaker 1: explored the troubling underbelly of the fashion industry. We touched

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Speaker 1: on problems such as exploitation of labor legislative loopholes around

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Speaker 1: the world, and cases of continuing outright slavery. In today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we're going to look at another aspect of the fashion industry,

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Speaker 1: its effect on the natural world, which is something I

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Speaker 1: think escapes a lot of folks. I know it escaped

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Speaker 1: me before we really dove into this. But let's start

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Speaker 1: with makeup, which is fascinating in itself. Here are the facts.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the first use of early cosmetics generally goes back

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Speaker 3: to ancient Egypt, and it's not uncommon to find Egyptian

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Speaker 3: tombs that actually have makeup canisters or some kind of

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Speaker 3: makeup inside of them. It's kind of interesting stuff. And Cleopatra,

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Speaker 3: you may have heard this, she used lipstick. They got

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Speaker 3: a cue from ground carmine beetles. Eh, I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you get hues wherever you can get them. Really, I mean.

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Speaker 1: Dies from animals, you know what I mean. The beatles

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Speaker 1: are still a part of this industry.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, and you know, and that was very striking to

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Speaker 3: use the beatles. Cleopatra's use of the beatles was very

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Speaker 3: striking because a lot of other women at the time,

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Speaker 3: anyone who was using makeup would have mixed clay essentially

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Speaker 3: with water to get coloring on their lips with a.

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Speaker 5: Red clay kind of situation.

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Speaker 6: Perhaps seasonal okay, seasonal clay.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but there was other stuff that people used

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Speaker 3: to find color and to use it on their bodies.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, they were super ahead of the curve.

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Speaker 5: We're still talking about Egypt, where you could use coal,

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Speaker 5: which was a mix of metal lead, copper, ash, and

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Speaker 5: burnt almonds, and surprise, surprise, wasn't particularly good for you

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Speaker 5: good for your complexion making, you know, rubbing lead and

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Speaker 5: copper mixtures on your face probably not the best idea,

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Speaker 5: but it sure looked cool. Gave you this real iridescent,

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Speaker 5: kind of shiny eye circles, and both men and women

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Speaker 5: were all about this style. They painted these kind of

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Speaker 5: raccoon circles around their eyes, and the circles of coal

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Speaker 5: were meant to ward off the evil eye, which is

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Speaker 5: a thing you see often in Egyptian hieroglyphs I'm not

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Speaker 5: mistaken and dangerous spirits, and much like you'll see baseball

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Speaker 5: players and football players with those big, you know, kind

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Speaker 5: of dark lines under their eyes. Turns out it's really

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Speaker 5: good at deflecting the sun and keeping it out of

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Speaker 5: your eyes and keeping it from it keeps you cooler, essentially,

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Speaker 5: and it may have even inadvertently helped some of the

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Speaker 5: Egyptians ward off infectious diseases because even though the lead's

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Speaker 5: not good for you, and on the one hand, it

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Speaker 5: can kill off bacteria. But yeah, this wasn't necessarily as

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Speaker 5: much of a thing that we could see because Egyptians

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Speaker 5: didn't have particularly long life spans anyway. They were like

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Speaker 5: the hamsters of civilization. It might have actually killed them

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Speaker 5: off if they continued to wear it, if they had

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Speaker 5: had longer life spans.

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Speaker 1: Yep, lead is bad for you, it turns out, as

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Speaker 1: we've seen in the you know the now wind from

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Speaker 1: this studies correlating lead exposure in early childhood to problems

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Speaker 1: later in life. We talk about the Egyptians a lot

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Speaker 1: because it's the most commonly known example of what we

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Speaker 1: call prototype cosmetics. The ancient Greeks and Romans also painted

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Speaker 1: their faces with powders made up of various minerals or

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Speaker 1: ground stone. But we can't be too Egyptian centric or

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Speaker 1: Greco Roman centric, because if you think about it, cosmetics

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Speaker 1: appear in some form in virtually every culture. Like we

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Speaker 1: noted in the first part of the series. Fashion is

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Speaker 1: sometimes dismissed as something purely decorative, but it's also it

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Speaker 1: can be a powerful statement, and makeup is the same

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Speaker 1: way as multiple uses across the span of history, not

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Speaker 1: just relegated to the realm of decoration. Noel, I really

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Speaker 1: appreciate you pointing out that Cole served Kohl, by the way,

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Speaker 1: served a practical purpose. Makeup has and continues to serve

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Speaker 1: as a symbol of religious significance in some cases, or

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Speaker 1: of social status, like your example, Matt about the queen

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Speaker 1: getting the good fancy lipstick with beetles versus the old

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Speaker 1: claywater of the working class and the prolls. So just

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Speaker 1: like fashion, of course, makeup has gone, and we'll go

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Speaker 1: through multiple phases, different things go in and out of style.

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Speaker 1: The origin story of modern makeup, cosmetics, personal care products

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Speaker 1: as we understand it today, really starts at the dawn

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Speaker 1: of the twentieth century. That's when you see the emergence

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Speaker 1: of things like nail polishes, lipstick, mascaras in again what

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Speaker 1: we will call the modern form. And there are a

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Speaker 1: couple of really weird, well really fascinating social and technological

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Speaker 1: factors that coincide and birthed modern makeup or popularized it.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I think about it. Right around this time,

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Speaker 3: for really the first time in a popular way, you

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Speaker 3: are probably having a picture taken of you, like a portrait,

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Speaker 3: something that is up close and personal. It's gonna show

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Speaker 3: everything going on up here, right, So yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 3: I mean seriously, you'd have to you'd have to really

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Speaker 3: save up your money if you wanted to get one

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Speaker 3: of these done, and you'd have to sit there for

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Speaker 3: a long time. It's be the one picture you got.

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Speaker 3: This is it, this is the this is your chance.

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Speaker 3: You got to make sure you look the absolute best.

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Speaker 3: It's not like you can take twenty eight of them

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Speaker 3: and then decide, hey, I'm gonna post this to my

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Speaker 3: eighteen hundreds Instagram.

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Speaker 1: And that time factor is also why people you don't

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Speaker 1: see a ton of people smiling in those old photos,

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Speaker 1: because you'd have to do this. We're so for so

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Speaker 1: very long. You know. I don't know about you guys,

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Speaker 1: but I grew up. When I was growing up, I

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Speaker 1: just thought everybody from that time was in a real mood.

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Speaker 6: Totally.

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Speaker 5: Did I make this up? Or weren't there even devices

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Speaker 5: that would like hold their heads in place or something

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Speaker 5: like that, like some kind of little thing that they

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Speaker 5: can I swear to God.

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Speaker 3: I know for the photography that became popular that was

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Speaker 3: like a photo of a dead body after someone had passed.

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Speaker 3: That kind of apparatus was created, But I don't know

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Speaker 3: about the actual like regular role a live human photography,

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Speaker 3: head bracers or I don't know what you'd call it.

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Speaker 6: All right, Maybe maybe I'm getting my.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just saying I've

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Speaker 3: never heard of them.

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Speaker 6: No, I'm gonna go ahead and come out and say

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Speaker 6: it I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: You know. There's something like that that happens though, especially

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Speaker 1: with photographs of infants, because their heads are really big.

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Speaker 1: So there's probably a mom or dad who's like, let

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Speaker 1: me prop up your nogging here, U.

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Speaker 3: And it's fine. That is still soft. You have the

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Speaker 3: soft spots. Find a worry about it will be.

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Speaker 1: Gently prop up in it. Yeah. The other factor, another

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Speaker 1: factor is that mirrors, true mirrors we would call them,

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Speaker 1: became much more affordable, so they were much more common

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Speaker 1: in the average person's home. But the big one, the

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Speaker 1: biggest badger in the makeup bag here is the rise

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Speaker 1: of the motion picture fundamentally change the world, fundamentally change

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Speaker 1: makeup and the normalization of how people should look, because

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Speaker 1: we have to remember that a lot of actors who

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Speaker 1: came into the early days of motion pictures were wearing

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Speaker 1: theatrical makeup for live stage, and that's very different because

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Speaker 1: you want something that exaggerates your facial feature, so even

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Speaker 1: the people way in the cheap seats can see your

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Speaker 1: emotions and the transformations you go through, and that just

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Speaker 1: looks screwy on film because you're really close up.

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Speaker 5: It's the same with acting styles being different from stage

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Speaker 5: to film.

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Speaker 6: You have to act.

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Speaker 5: Very large and in order for people to catch the

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Speaker 5: vibes that you're putting out there. In film, you can

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Speaker 5: act much more daintily and subtly. And by the way,

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Speaker 5: quick amendment, I was not wrong. It's called a head

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Speaker 5: brace and it's absolutely a thing.

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Speaker 3: Well there you go, Okay, I was wrong.

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Speaker 5: It's this weird medieval torture device looking thing on a

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Speaker 5: stand that sits behind you and you can you can

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Speaker 5: lengthen or shorten it depending on where you want your

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Speaker 5: head to be. And it's not like it is a

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Speaker 5: claw or something. It's something you sort of lean your

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Speaker 5: head back against because do you think about it, even

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Speaker 5: your neck muscles are going to get tired and you

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Speaker 5: might drift from one side to the other or forward

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Speaker 5: to back. Where this thing just sort of it's like

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Speaker 5: a fancy headrest on an office chair, only it's separate

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Speaker 5: and you can't see it.

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Speaker 3: In the picture. Well, yeah, I mean that's great. As

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Speaker 3: long as the spirit glue holds the mustache on your face,

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Speaker 3: then will be okay. I love it.

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Speaker 1: And those are technological innovations that evolved in step with

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Speaker 1: this new media is what we're having. We're having an

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Speaker 1: increasing democratization of media, but it's nothing like the breakdeck

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Speaker 1: pace we're at today and fast forward. Of course, makeup

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Speaker 1: cosmetics are a huge part of this, and today the

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Speaker 1: modern cosmetic industry, which is so huge that it's tough

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Speaker 1: to even call it a single industry, is an economic titan.

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Speaker 1: It is a financial leviathan. The main categories are each

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Speaker 1: industries of their own skincare, hair care, makeup, perfume, cologne, toiletries, deodorants.

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Speaker 1: Things are called oral cosmetics, which is an interesting kind

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Speaker 1: of liminal space. Anyway, Since the early twentieth century, the

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Speaker 1: production of all these products. Beauty and cosmetic products has

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Speaker 1: been controlled by a handful of corporations that I won't

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Speaker 1: call cabal's, but I mean they're just very huge and

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Speaker 1: very successful. Some specialized in these products, like Loreal. Others

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Speaker 1: own a ton of other things that are not associated

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Speaker 1: with cosmetics, like Unilever or Procter and Gamble, and then

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Speaker 1: there's Este Lauder and so on. What we're saying is

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Speaker 1: there are some big fish at the top, and as

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Speaker 1: of twenty eighteen, the US was considered and still is

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Speaker 1: considered the most valuable aka profitable beauty personal care market

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Speaker 1: in the world. In twenty eighteen alone, this industry generated

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Speaker 1: eighty nine point five billion dollars just in the US

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Speaker 1: in one year.

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Speaker 3: Wow. That's that's incredible. Okay, Well, let's talk about what

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Speaker 3: the FDA, the Food and Drug Administration, has to say.

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Speaker 3: They define cosmetics as quote articles intended to be applied

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Speaker 3: to the human body for cleansing, beautifying, promote attractiveness, or

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Speaker 3: altering the appearance without affecting the body's structure or functions.

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Speaker 5: I love that beautifying and preventing attractiveness or two different things.

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Speaker 6: Somehow I don't quite.

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Speaker 5: Understand the difference but they seem to be important enough

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Speaker 5: to be listed separately.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. I to me, that feels like one

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Speaker 3: is for you and one is for others. I don't

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Speaker 3: know if that's correct or not. But again, we we

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Speaker 3: talked about a lot of these things. We're talking about

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Speaker 3: skin creams, perfumes, all that stuff. Yeah, but everything to

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Speaker 3: even shampoo. Things you may not think about. As weird

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Speaker 3: as this sounds. There's there's ocular cosmetics if you think about,

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Speaker 3: like context that you can get. They're specialized, and all

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Speaker 3: these other.

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Speaker 1: Things weird to make your eyes all black right right

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Speaker 1: or whatever?

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Speaker 3: Mostly just black. It's really interesting stuff. Before we go

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Speaker 3: too much further, I want to ask, do you guys

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Speaker 3: know two people named Shane Dawson and Jeffrey Starr And.

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Speaker 1: The names are familiar?

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Speaker 6: Doesn't ring a bell for me?

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Speaker 3: Okay, my wife introduced me to this these Jeffrey Starr

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Speaker 3: is a well known cosmetics designer, and this company manufactures

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Speaker 3: a ton of different cosmetics. They put out I'm going

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Speaker 3: to use their incorrect terminology. I apologize to anybody who

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Speaker 3: knows this stuff. But they put out a makeup kit

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Speaker 3: called Conspiracy, and it genuinely had cool design and my

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Speaker 3: wife happened to get one, but they were in crazy

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Speaker 3: demand because these are these are YouTubers. They're like social

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Speaker 3: social media influence influencers, whatever that is, and they are

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Speaker 3: so popular. When they got together and put this thing together,

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Speaker 3: it they sold out of everything. That broke the Internet

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Speaker 3: a little bit. It's fascinating the way that that those

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Speaker 3: two worlds are connecting. And we can maybe talk about

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Speaker 3: that a little later. But yeah, social media influencers and

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Speaker 3: the cosmetics industry.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, do you have I was hoping for a

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Speaker 1: second mat that you would, you would have a show

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Speaker 1: and tell segment for us. But I'll just I'll check

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Speaker 1: it out later.

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Speaker 3: Maybe I can go get it. I think she still

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Speaker 3: got it somewhere I go. I'll go have to look.

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Speaker 1: Well, we'll find it. Maybe maybe they'll sponsor us at

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Speaker 1: some point.

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Speaker 6: Who knows.

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Speaker 3: They don't need us.

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Speaker 1: They probably don't know they I don't think they do.

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Speaker 1: But but you're right, there is a fascinating intersection, and

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Speaker 1: this is this industry is all about these fascinating, at

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Speaker 1: times disturbing intersections. I mentioned that liminal space earlier when

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Speaker 1: we talked about oral cosmetics. It's it's weird, and it

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Speaker 1: goes back to the idea of affecting the body's structure

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Speaker 1: or function being efficacious in some physiological way. So any

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Speaker 1: any ingredient used in a cosmetic falls under that FDA

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Speaker 1: definition that that you gave us earlier. But what about

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Speaker 1: products that have a physiological claim. Toothpaste is a weird example.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes toothpaste is a cosmetic, but if toothpaste says that

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Speaker 1: it does a specific thing to alter your body, such

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Speaker 1: as protecting you from cavities or whitening your teeth, then

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Speaker 1: the FDA may classify it as a drug. So people

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Speaker 1: are still working out what this means and when, and

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Speaker 1: it's an important question. I mean, makeup cosmetics are a

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Speaker 1: vital thing. There are numerous fascinating works on the history

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Speaker 1: of makeup alone. I'm sad we can't dive into more

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Speaker 1: of it. And there are thousands and thousands of experts

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Speaker 1: just like the ones you mentioned, Matt. There are innumerable

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Speaker 1: tutorial sites. There are so many people working in this

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Speaker 1: industry or associated with the manufacture, the sale, the transportation

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Speaker 1: of makeup. But it's turns out that makeup itself may

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Speaker 1: be covering something up. Get it. There may be something

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Speaker 1: sinister beneath the beautiful.

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Speaker 3: Surface of all that concealer.

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Speaker 1: Of all that concealer. Yes, it may be concealed. Oh god,

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Speaker 1: we have an abundance of puns, an embarrassment of makeup,

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Speaker 1: and a rich an abundance an abundance.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, break out the blush everyone.

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Speaker 1: And take some time. Let's all, let's all put our

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Speaker 1: faces on. As they say, we'll pause for a word

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Speaker 1: from our sponsor and we'll be right back.

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Speaker 4: Here's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 1: Makeup has problems, no two ways about it. One of

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Speaker 1: the biggest ones I think a lot of our a

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Speaker 1: lot of our fellow listeners instantly thought of as you

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Speaker 1: saw the title for this episode is animals play a

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Speaker 1: big role and we have some returning tragedies to the

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Speaker 1: stage today. It's foreshadowing.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, animal testing. I mean, we've all seen fern Gully,

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Speaker 5: The Last Rainforest. Remember Robin Williams's character the bat Battie,

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Speaker 5: who does a really great rap talking about being an

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Speaker 5: animal test subjects in laboratories for cosmetic departments.

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Speaker 6: That's the thing.

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Speaker 5: It's a big deal, is the long standing arguments you

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Speaker 5: made that testing makeup ingredients on animals is a necessary

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Speaker 5: evil because you know, imagine the fall out if there

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Speaker 5: was some kind of skin cream that hit the market

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Speaker 5: and then gave people insane hives or rashes or worse. So,

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Speaker 5: with this in mind, many of these products have been

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Speaker 5: tested on animals, and ben correct me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 5: We're literally talking about like a lab where somebody puts

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Speaker 5: lipstick on a bunny rabbit.

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Speaker 6: Is that? Is it?

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Speaker 7: That?

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Speaker 5: Am I oversimplifying it? What does this look like?

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Speaker 3: It's changed a lot over the years, and there are

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Speaker 3: a lot of different examples of it applications, and you know,

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Speaker 3: you don't have to necessarily, like if we're taking lipstick,

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Speaker 3: for example, you don't have to necessarily place it on

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Speaker 3: animal's lips to see if it does the thing. You

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Speaker 3: can place it just on skin essentially of certain species

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Speaker 3: to see if it's going to have a reaction.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the testing is much worse than literal lipstick on

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Speaker 1: a pig.

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Speaker 4: Haha.

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Speaker 1: That's from my old English teachers and lovers of cliches. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: when it comes to the makeup in the animal world,

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Speaker 1: there are two primary issues. Animal products used as ingredients

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Speaker 1: and animal testing. There's still a big deal. Different countries

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Speaker 1: have their own sets of laws about this. There's not

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Speaker 1: like some un declaration about whether or not you should

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Speaker 1: test this stuff on animals and how you.

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Speaker 6: Should do it.

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Speaker 1: In the US, the Federal Food, Drug and Cosmetic Act,

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Speaker 1: which is created and overseen by the FDA, prohibits the

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Speaker 1: sale of what they call adulterated cosmetics, but they don't

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Speaker 1: require that animal tests be conducted to demonstrate that a

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Speaker 1: cosmetic is safe. Instead, they kick the responsibility to the manufacturer,

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Speaker 1: saying that the manufacturer has to perform whatever testing is necessary.

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Speaker 1: Compare that to a country like China, where the government

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Speaker 1: conducts mandatory animal tests on every single imported cosmetic product,

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter what it is. The government can also conduct

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Speaker 1: animal tests on items that have been pulled from any

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Speaker 1: store shelf. The European Union has had a ban on

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Speaker 1: types of animal testing and marketing of things that were

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Speaker 1: tested on animals since back in twenty and thirteen, so

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Speaker 1: for seven years. And then there's a laundry list of

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Speaker 1: other countries that fall somewhere in the middle they passed

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Speaker 1: similar laws against animal tis testing. They're like some states

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Speaker 1: have passed laws, like California or different states in Brazil,

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Speaker 1: so it's all over the place. Now to answer your

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Speaker 1: question you asked earlier, what kinds of tests are we

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Speaker 1: talking about? Well, what kind of animals are used in testing?

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Speaker 1: This is going to bother a lot of people. They're

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Speaker 1: typically cute animals. They're mice, rats, rabbits, guinea pigs, and

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Speaker 1: they're used because they are mammles and they have similarities

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Speaker 1: with humans broadly speaking. So the idea is that if

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Speaker 1: we expose an animal that's enough like us to a substance,

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Speaker 1: then we'll be able to predict what will possibly happen

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Speaker 1: to a human who is exposed to this substance. So

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Speaker 1: these tests are these tests can be pretty gruesome, Like

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Speaker 1: you were talking about Matt's skin and eye irritation tests.

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Speaker 1: That's where they'll shave an animal skin and they'll expose

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Speaker 1: its skin to a certain chemical or substance or product.

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Speaker 1: Usually it's the chemical or the substance.

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Speaker 6: This is usually.

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Speaker 1: Before they get to like the name brand stage. And

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Speaker 1: then these substances can also be dripped, like they'll restrain

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Speaker 1: a rabbit, for instance, and they'll drip in a substance

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Speaker 1: to its eye. Just the idea be that we'll see

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Speaker 1: how the rabbit's eye reacts and that'll teach us what

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Speaker 1: happens to a human eye if somebody gets you know,

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Speaker 1: mascare in their eye or something.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's so that's what it's testing, if it

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Speaker 3: gets on your skin or just if you're using a

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Speaker 3: normal use, or if it gets in your eyes. But

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Speaker 3: other times they are testing to see what happens if

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Speaker 3: a human ingests this chemical. So if maybe a child

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Speaker 3: or an adventurous human gets a hold of some of

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Speaker 3: this makeup that has this chemical in it and they

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Speaker 3: just down a whole bunch of it, how much does

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Speaker 3: it take to cause serious harm to this person, to

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Speaker 3: cause what would be considered a poisoning, or to even

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Speaker 3: cause death to this person. So they do it to

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Speaker 3: the animals until it happens.

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Speaker 5: Isn't animal testing illegal in a lot of places in

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Speaker 5: the States.

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Speaker 3: Though, right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, As we said earlier, California is probably the best

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Speaker 1: example of that. But it does go state to state

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Speaker 1: because again the FDA has put the onus of responsibility

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Speaker 1: on the manufacturer to test what you need. And that's

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Speaker 1: how we get to go back to the test. That's

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Speaker 1: how we get things like you're describing that lethal dose test.

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Speaker 1: This is similar to those tests you hear about a

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Speaker 1: sugar substitute, for instance, causing cancer and rats then force

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Speaker 1: feeding stuff like at what threshold of ingestion will insert

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Speaker 1: thing here give you cancer or cause birth defects?

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Speaker 3: Right right?

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Speaker 5: But also like a lot of these companies obviously manufacture

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Speaker 5: their products in other countries, and there are different laws

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Speaker 5: in other countries. And I was just looking around, googling

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Speaker 5: around a little bit, and apparently in China, full on

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Speaker 5: animal testing is still a thing in companies like Esta, Lauter, Clinique,

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Speaker 5: Mary Kay, It's Mabeling brands. You know, big brands still

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Speaker 5: do full on animal testing in China.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's the law they have to in China.

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Speaker 1: So there, you know, you can find a lot of

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Speaker 1: stats on this from various places. Institutions that admittedly have agendas,

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Speaker 1: like the Humane Society, I mean, it's their job to

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Speaker 1: be kind of biased in this regard because they want

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Speaker 1: to they advocate for the humane treatment of animals. So

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Speaker 1: according to the Humane Society, these animals are often killed

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Speaker 1: at the end of a testing process, typically bias sphyxiation,

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Speaker 1: having their next broken, or being decapitated. Opponents of animal

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Speaker 1: testing argue one that it's unnecessarily cruel. But they also

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Speaker 1: point out that in many cases, the results of these

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Speaker 1: tests may not be near as accurate as we might

437
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: want to believe. Different species respond differently to the same chemicals,

438
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like you can eat chocolate,

439
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 1: but your dog probably shouldn't, right, And dogs and humans

440
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 1: are very similar, and so results from these tests may

441
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: not always be relevant to humans. They can overestimate or

442
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: more dangerously underestimate possible hazardous effects for people.

443
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 5: So at the moment, there are a series of legal

444
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 5: and industry initiatives pushing to ban this kind of practice

445
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 5: and other related practices with as you can tell by

446
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 5: list of counters, you mentioned pretty significant results.

447
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 6: And you know, this.

448
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 5: Does seem to be a widespread thing where people are

449
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 5: uncomfortable with this by and large, But you know, outside

450
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,159
Speaker 5: of even like the pedas and the humane societies of

451
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 5: the world, not a good look. I think your average

452
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,600
Speaker 5: person would probably not be okay with this. But while

453
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,480
Speaker 5: we're on the subject of animal testing, what about using

454
00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 5: animals themselves as ingredients?

455
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:23,200
Speaker 1: Well, let's I do want to be fair and point

456
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: out one thing we missed that we would be remiss

457
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: if we didn't say this proponents of animal testing do

458
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 1: have an historically solid argument, which is, isn't it better

459
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:39,119
Speaker 1: to harm a non human animal than to risk harming

460
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: a human being.

461
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 3: I think that's a debate that I would have a

462
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 3: very hard time siding with and in it's not because

463
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 3: that my dog just barked. I love my dog. I

464
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,640
Speaker 3: would never allow anything to happen t ur like that,

465
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 3: and I don't want anything to happen like this to

466
00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 3: any other animals. We're just going to add the dog

467
00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 3: barking as colors. Yeah.

468
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: Earlier, by the way, that crunch crunch was doctor Benkman.

469
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 5: It's also like, I mean, you could also throw into

470
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,440
Speaker 5: the argument, it's not like these are life saving drugs.

471
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 5: These are essentially what some might consider frivolous or extra

472
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 5: or things that are.

473
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 3: Nice to have.

474
00:28:16,240 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 5: But do we really need this stuff?

475
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 3: You know?

476
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 5: I don't know many would say yes, God, yes we

477
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:22,439
Speaker 5: need this, we need this.

478
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 3: But you know, but I guess what I'm saying is

479
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 3: internally just as a I'm just gonna keep it in

480
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 3: because it really does make sense. It does make sense

481
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,600
Speaker 3: to me. The art the proponents of animal testing, their

482
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 3: arguments make complete sense to me, and I don't know

483
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 3: how you could make sure a chemical or a product

484
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 3: is safe unless you had that information, you know, for

485
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,480
Speaker 3: poison control, for response, especially if you're thinking about a

486
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 3: child that ingests something like, how do you get that

487
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,120
Speaker 3: data without this? And I guess that's my big question

488
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 3: to anybody who is completely against animal testing, which I

489
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 3: think I am, but I don't understand how we get

490
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 3: that data without it.

491
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: So it's like a necessary evil argument again there it

492
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 1: feel like, yeah, and so this this kind of you know,

493
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: while we're on the subject of animals, I think, as

494
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: you set us up here, there are numerous ingredients from

495
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: animals that are used. And this is a whole other

496
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:33,239
Speaker 1: ball of palmade. I guess because things changed since the

497
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: age of Cleopatra and Beatle lipstick. But maybe they didn't

498
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 1: change as much as we might assume, because let's consider

499
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: people who practice a vegan lifestyle. By lifestyle, we mean

500
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: people who want to avoid what they see as exploitation

501
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: of animals in any possible sense. If you practice this lifestyle,

502
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 1: then it's crucial to know which types of makeup or

503
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 1: which brand of personal care products use animal ingredients. And

504
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 1: these ingredients this is what I was talking about with

505
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 1: a returning star. These ingredients include things that may not

506
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: sound like they come from animals when you read them

507
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: in like your list of ingredients. Retinol is found in

508
00:30:18,600 --> 00:30:22,640
Speaker 1: anti aging products. Estrogen. This is the weird fact that

509
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 1: I learned for today. Estrogen is obtained often by extracting

510
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: urine from pregnant horses. Doesn't really, I guess, hurt the horses.

511
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,400
Speaker 1: It's just it probably weirds them out. You know, I

512
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: can understand being weirded out by that. Ambergris is one

513
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:46,240
Speaker 1: you know, that's a waxy substance that lines the stomachs

514
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: of whales. And it's not used for like your skin.

515
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: It's used because it helps scent stay in perfume. And

516
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 1: that's an historical thing that's still used to date. A

517
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: returning guest is squaling, which we mentioned in an earlier

518
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 1: episode when we're talking about possible coronavirus vaccine and the

519
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: deaths of sharks. Because squalen's used in vaccines, we mentioned

520
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: it's used in cosmetics. It's extracted from the livers of

521
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: sharks in a way that is not super pleasant for

522
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: the sharks, and then it's added to eye makeup and lipstick.

523
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's it's really strange. And those are not all

524
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:35,000
Speaker 3: of the animal products that can be found in some cosmetics. Yeah,

525
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 3: no way, Yeah, And as you can tell just by

526
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 3: what Ben said, I mean, these can be derived in

527
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 3: a lot of different ways, from extracting urine or from

528
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:53,040
Speaker 3: extracting essentially livers. Right, it's a there's a wide range

529
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 3: of how much harm you're actually doing to an animal

530
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 3: individually in the process to get it. But also when

531
00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 3: you're using an animal as a product like this, it

532
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 3: generally doesn't bode well for the animals well being afterwards,

533
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 3: no matter how you're getting it.

534
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, And the.

535
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,480
Speaker 1: Burden of education is on you as the consumer. It's

536
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: on us as the end users. You're not going to

537
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: you're not going to go to your local makeup store

538
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: or something and see, like see an advertisement for a

539
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 1: foundation that says we proudly use animal products. Here they

540
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 1: are with a picture of the animal or something on there.

541
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: That's that's just not the kind of pr they're looking for.

542
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 3: Now with more squaling, now, with more more squaling.

543
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: Uh. And you can, however, be empowered by your own research.

544
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:51,320
Speaker 1: You can find multiple resources online, multiple studies and databases

545
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: indicating whether animals are used in a given product, and

546
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: companies are transparent parent about this. You just have to

547
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: add and they'll you know, you'll be able to find

548
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: usually whether this is for testing purposes or whether it's

549
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: as a source of an ingredient. The testing purpose thing, again,

550
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:16,640
Speaker 1: as I said earlier, depends on the laws of a

551
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 1: given region. So because of that, because of this pastiche

552
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: of laws, this can all be completely legal, it can

553
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: all be above board. It doesn't. It's not like some

554
00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: cartel conspiracy necessarily, And because of that, the decision to

555
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:39,400
Speaker 1: choose the cosmetics you want to use is it remains

556
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: a personal rather than a legal matter. But regardless of

557
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: what sort of ingredients or testing are involved, makeup and

558
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: the fashion industry overall has another secret, quite a dirty one,

559
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: and that's pollution.

560
00:33:55,720 --> 00:34:00,760
Speaker 3: Yes, been literally dirty. I love just that we're making

561
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 3: these concrete connections to words in this episode, and they

562
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 3: are puns, but they're also just exactly what we're talking

563
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,120
Speaker 3: about here. I guess we just have to talk about something.

564
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:18,879
Speaker 3: What happens when an industry starts out as pretty small, right,

565
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 3: It's not like it's not like the coal industry or

566
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 3: the oil industry, began as a giant behemoth, right, or

567
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,759
Speaker 3: any other industry anything, really, it always starts small, and

568
00:34:29,800 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 3: it has to, that's just the nature of it. But

569
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 3: it begins to balloon in balloon and more people are doing,

570
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,600
Speaker 3: more people are manufacturing, more people are enjoying whatever the

571
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 3: service or the product is, and it just at some

572
00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:44,399
Speaker 3: point it gets too big, right, And when it's once,

573
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,959
Speaker 3: it becomes too big. And that's my judgment, right, too big,

574
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 3: there are going to be negative effects on everyone because

575
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:59,960
Speaker 3: there's going to be a negative effect on environments. You know,

576
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:04,319
Speaker 3: both in small areas, right and controlled areas, you're gonna

577
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 3: have really bad effects there, but also over all to

578
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 3: the entire planet there could be negative effects. Yeah. It's funny.

579
00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 5: Even in like you know, podcasting, we always talk about

580
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 5: scaling and like you know, starting from a smaller company

581
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 5: and then launching way more shows, et cetera, et cetera.

582
00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:18,799
Speaker 5: I was thinking, like, oh, we're kind of lucky because

583
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 5: we're in sort of a zero pollution business. We don't

584
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 5: make products that like can end up in landfills. But

585
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 5: even that, like you know, when you scale on that level,

586
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 5: you start to having to add more server capacity or

587
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:33,360
Speaker 5: like more computers, and that can lead to ways downstream.

588
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,880
Speaker 5: It's just interesting anytime. Just to your point, Matt, that

589
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 5: an industry balloons in this way, there's gonna be collateral damage.

590
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 5: And with the fashion industry, where things are so seasonal,

591
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 5: you know, it's very easy to generate a massive amount

592
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 5: of waste, you know, on the clothing side of it alone,

593
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 5: let alone the cosmetics, the packaging, all the plastics.

594
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:56,360
Speaker 6: We've been talking about that too.

595
00:35:56,239 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 3: Much lately, but it's absolutely a thing just to put

596
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,480
Speaker 3: this out there before you move on. I would say

597
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,720
Speaker 3: that depending on how you are listening to our voices

598
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,640
Speaker 3: right now, we could be said to be creating noise

599
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:11,320
Speaker 3: pollution just saying this is true.

600
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: Right because so many people uh only only roll down

601
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: local main street with this going through the subwoofers.

602
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,440
Speaker 3: So is that you rolling down Rodeo Drive listening to

603
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 3: this right now?

604
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: Good shotgun? Yeah, So so this is uh, this is

605
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: a good point. Met. I would also say, we're talking,

606
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: uh to to the point about podcasting. We're talking about

607
00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 1: hidden cost right as it was often as it would

608
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 1: often be described in economics, UH, a hidden environmental cost

609
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:50,600
Speaker 1: of something like podcasting would be the fact that the

610
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:55,640
Speaker 1: technology is reliant on rare earth metals, you know, the

611
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:59,399
Speaker 1: both for the creators and the audience. The fact that

612
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: plat stick is used in the devices, the fact that

613
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: we're powered by electricity, right, and where is the electricity generated,

614
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,040
Speaker 1: you know, ailes.

615
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 3: Oh it's coal powered electric you're right. And and all

616
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 3: the servers that are holding all the files that are

617
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 3: being sent across the world. Oh boy, there's this is

618
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:18,840
Speaker 3: worse than we thought in all.

619
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,280
Speaker 1: And the world of cosmetics, in the world of fashion

620
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: is no different. You know, there is a really compelling

621
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: argument that and I don't want to sound jaded, but

622
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: that an industry passed, any industry past a certain threshold

623
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 1: of size, does endanger what we call the commons, right,

624
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: the public things and resources. So, like we said, plastic,

625
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,400
Speaker 1: the personal care industry is like ballpark five hundred billion

626
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: dollars worth of stuff a year. And and think about

627
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: think about how much it relies on plastic shampoo, body wash, lipstick,

628
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:03,120
Speaker 1: scary cases, deodorant. You don't see this stuff in a

629
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: ton of like glass containers. The vast majority of these

630
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: products are more often than not sold in plastic containers,

631
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: not all, but a ton of them.

632
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,719
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's sort of the same is with recycled plastic.

633
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 5: We talked about how it becomes you pay a premium

634
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:20,600
Speaker 5: for getting goods made of recycled plastic because it costs

635
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,440
Speaker 5: more to make. And it's the same with more luxury goods.

636
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:27,359
Speaker 5: I mean perfume, like fancy bottle of perfume from Gucci

637
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 5: or you know, something like that, we'll still come in

638
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:33,279
Speaker 5: a glass bottle. Fancy soaps that you get bespoke type

639
00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 5: soaps on Pinterest or other sites like that. You know,

640
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,320
Speaker 5: they're gonna come in bars and they're in crazy shapes

641
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,720
Speaker 5: and have like wood chips inside of them and stuff

642
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 5: for exfoliation. But yeah, mass produced, that's the beauty of

643
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 5: mass production is for everybody. Everyone can afford to have

644
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:51,439
Speaker 5: these things, where maybe in the past perfume would only

645
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 5: be available for those with lots of money. But in

646
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 5: order to do that, you have to make the packaging

647
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 5: cheaper and easier to mass produce.

648
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, a lot of what's seen as

649
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,520
Speaker 1: luxurious today there's a bit of nostalgia to it. There's

650
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 1: a retro factor. We're selling a concept as much as

651
00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:13,319
Speaker 1: we are selling a product. Right, Ultimately, all advertising is

652
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: selling an idea more so than a tangible object or

653
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,600
Speaker 1: even a service. So that stuff you're describing hearkens back

654
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: to the not too distant pass when soap came in

655
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,400
Speaker 1: a bar form and perfume was luxurious. Someone had to

656
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:33,720
Speaker 1: go out and scrape the inside of a whale stomach. Yeah,

657
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: they also have some class class or metal bottle. Well,

658
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 1: no metal, but I have glass bottles. And haircare was packaged,

659
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 1: you know, in little tins, in little jars, and now

660
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 1: you can see you can still see that stuff because

661
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: it does it does feel more elevated. Right, This isn't

662
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:59,280
Speaker 1: just your your plastic store brand shampoo or foot powder

663
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,759
Speaker 1: or whatever. I don't know if footpowder is a cosmetic,

664
00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: it's probably a drug if it fixes something.

665
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 3: I want to see more glass shampoo bottles, just to

666
00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:08,840
Speaker 3: like up the ante for when you're using it in

667
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,720
Speaker 3: the shower, like, do not drop this shampoo?

668
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: Yeah that's right.

669
00:40:13,719 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, Wow, whatever happened to soap on a rope too?

670
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 6: Guys?

671
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,640
Speaker 5: I think they we should bring that back. Let'd that

672
00:40:19,719 --> 00:40:20,719
Speaker 5: be a nostalgia thing.

673
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,160
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure it's still available in several novelty stores

674
00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 3: and places across the country.

675
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 5: Are they shaped like naughty things.

676
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:30,399
Speaker 6: Oh don't.

677
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 3: I don't know what they're shaped like. I just know

678
00:40:32,120 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 3: that there's ropes with soaps, okay, and soaps.

679
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: There's a shop in the United Kingdom for some reason

680
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,880
Speaker 1: was obsessed with a number of years ago called Labor

681
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: and Weight, and they they sell this kind of nostalgic stuff.

682
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: They sell like cardboard boxes of soap flakes, things like that.

683
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,840
Speaker 1: But yeah, but to your point, to your point, Matt, this,

684
00:40:57,000 --> 00:40:58,839
Speaker 1: I didn't even think about that. That is such a

685
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 1: compelling reason for the use of plastic and shampoo bottle.

686
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:07,200
Speaker 1: I mean the household injuries alone, honestly, Yeah, so many

687
00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: people would hurt themselves.

688
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 3: But but but I totally here with the tin thing, right,

689
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,960
Speaker 3: that's that's coming back. I've seen in several places where

690
00:41:14,040 --> 00:41:17,439
Speaker 3: it's a shampoo bar essentially it'll come in a tin

691
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:19,440
Speaker 3: or something, or it will just be a shampoo bar

692
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:20,240
Speaker 3: that stand alone.

693
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: To froth it up, they put it in your hair. Okay,

694
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: I didn't just rub the bar across your heads.

695
00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 5: You got to get a good lab.

696
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:28,920
Speaker 1: That going, get a good lab.

697
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:33,280
Speaker 5: And then yeah, or like you know, palmades and stuff

698
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,479
Speaker 5: things that are sort of retro. A lot of times

699
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 5: will come in tins or or glass jars, because it's

700
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 5: part of the vibe. It's part of like the the

701
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 5: optics of the product.

702
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 6: You know.

703
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, again, we're selling an idea as much as we're

704
00:41:46,600 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 1: selling a product. And how how did how did we

705
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:50,239
Speaker 1: get here?

706
00:41:50,320 --> 00:41:50,600
Speaker 5: Well?

707
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 1: After World War One, the US became the most prolific

708
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 1: producer of personal care beauty product and also the biggest consumer.

709
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 1: And part of that is not that the US was

710
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 1: super special or had the you know, some federal mandate

711
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:14,080
Speaker 1: to become this titan. It's because Europe was recovering from

712
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: a mass of war, and things like things like popularizing

713
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: different esoteric or niche beauty products took a little bit

714
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 1: of an understandable backseat. There's a great article by a

715
00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 1: writer named Alejandra Burunda in National Geographic that examines the

716
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,880
Speaker 1: history here and also the rise of plastic.

717
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,360
Speaker 3: Here's a quote. During the war, the military had imposed

718
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 3: strict hygiene codes as a way to prevent disease from

719
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 3: spreading amongst the troops, and when those soldiers returned home,

720
00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 3: they brought with them in grained habits of washing, shaving,

721
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 3: and toothbrushing. By the mid nineteen twenties, a whole industry

722
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 3: of personal care popped up. In nineteen twenty six, the

723
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 3: Lever Company, which would later become Unilever, a major multi

724
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 3: national personal care product company, kicked off an ad campaign

725
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,520
Speaker 3: outlining the damage body odor could do to one's career

726
00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 3: and social prospects. Mmmmm, what does that remind me of?

727
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 3: What does that mean?

728
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: Howatosis?

729
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:29,400
Speaker 3: Perhaps? Yeah, brenessh These doctors say the body odor that

730
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 3: your sporting is really not going to be great for you,

731
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 3: So you should.

732
00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 1: Your job opportunity stink literally right.

733
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, somewhere around here.

734
00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 1: Right right. And uh, what I love about the way

735
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:47,880
Speaker 1: that's written is there's this there's this strange kind of

736
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 1: implicit implication that before people came back from World War One,

737
00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 1: no one was washing, shaving, or brushing their teeth. That's

738
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: not true, but but this military Harry regimen, you know,

739
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,600
Speaker 1: became popularized and normalized. And at that very same time,

740
00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 1: remember again, Hollywood is exploding. So now we see these

741
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:15,399
Speaker 1: actors that we love, we worship, these modern celebrities. We

742
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,839
Speaker 1: want to look like them. We want to know what

743
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,040
Speaker 1: they use for a face cream, we want to know what,

744
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:23,879
Speaker 1: you know, what they put on their armpits before they

745
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,960
Speaker 1: go to a job interview. So it's big business. And

746
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 1: then when plastics come out, this enables the industry to

747
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: accelerate even more. Of course, the beauty industry immediately jumps

748
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:39,319
Speaker 1: on plastic. How could you not. It's amazing for this

749
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:43,600
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. It's durable, it's light, it can as

750
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:48,880
Speaker 1: someone said earlier, it can scale. So that trend continues. Honestly,

751
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: that trend continues largely unabated in the modern day. There

752
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: are steps. People are taking steps to slow it down,

753
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,560
Speaker 1: of course and look towards sustainability. And we'll find out

754
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: why they're doing that in just a minute. And it's

755
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: a depressing answer, but yes, plastic gase skiing because it works.

756
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, And it's not to say this might not change

757
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,879
Speaker 5: over the next couple of years, because they're as we've seen,

758
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,120
Speaker 5: you know, with plastics. There are some large players taking

759
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:16,960
Speaker 5: steps to combat the plastic problem.

760
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:18,719
Speaker 6: Like we talked about on that episode with.

761
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 5: Lego, it's pivoting to using paper to contain their tiny

762
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 5: plastic pieces.

763
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 6: Yes, step in the right direction.

764
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,600
Speaker 5: But in the cosmetics universe, Loreal is a giant is

765
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,560
Speaker 5: aiming to make one hundred percent of their packaging reusable,

766
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 5: refillable which I love, and or compostable by twenty twenty five,

767
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 5: and they also are I wouldn't go so far as

768
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 5: to say committing, but they would. Essentially, their goal is

769
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 5: to source fifty percent of that packaging from recycled materials.

770
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,680
Speaker 5: That's really good news. And in addition to plastic, there

771
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 5: are other cosmetic and personal care products that actually can

772
00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 5: contain toxic chemicals that the environment doesn't.

773
00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 6: Know what to do with. They can't break them down,

774
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 6: they can.

775
00:46:06,120 --> 00:46:10,760
Speaker 5: Create runoff that goes into water supplies, drain into rivers,

776
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 5: infiltrate the water system. It's bad news. So a whole

777
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:19,560
Speaker 5: nother side of this discussion. And that's just one of

778
00:46:20,120 --> 00:46:23,920
Speaker 5: the many aspects that are difficult when it comes to

779
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,279
Speaker 5: pollution and the world of fashion and cosmetics. And we're

780
00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:29,000
Speaker 5: going to get into more of those when we return

781
00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:30,200
Speaker 5: from a quick sponsor break.

782
00:46:38,239 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 1: Yes we've returned. Yeah. There is another facet to this,

783
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:45,879
Speaker 1: to the world of fashion in general, beyond makeup, and

784
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: it's one that many of us have probably heard about

785
00:46:50,160 --> 00:46:54,480
Speaker 1: in recent years. It's the idea often reported that the

786
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:59,239
Speaker 1: fashion industry clothing in particular, generates a great deal of

787
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 1: pollution and waste. You may recall hearing in particular, breathless,

788
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 1: somewhat hyperbolic headlines claiming the fashion industry is the second

789
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:15,000
Speaker 1: most polluting industry in the world. There's like oil and

790
00:47:15,040 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: then the clothes you like, and that's a bummer, right.

791
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: But to find the truth, we did some digging and

792
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 1: there's a great article by an author named Alden Wicker

793
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:33,120
Speaker 1: writing for an outfit called Eco Cult. And what I

794
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 1: love about this, if Alden you happen to be listening,

795
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 1: is that you specifically say, don't go quoting me and

796
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 1: say that Alden said this on Eco Cult. But we

797
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:48,319
Speaker 1: looked at your math and it's solid and it makes

798
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:49,360
Speaker 1: an important distinction.

799
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:49,800
Speaker 3: Here.

800
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:53,920
Speaker 1: There's a thing called the Global Fashion Agenda. In twenty seventeen,

801
00:47:54,160 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 1: they partnered with a consulting group called the Boston Consulting Group,

802
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,280
Speaker 1: and they wanted to do some analysis and see whether

803
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 1: there was truth to that claim. They published this thing

804
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,560
Speaker 1: called the Pulse of the Fashion Industry Report, and in

805
00:48:09,600 --> 00:48:13,399
Speaker 1: that they found that the fashion industry itself was responsible

806
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: for the emission of one point seven billion tons of

807
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: CO two and twenty fifteen. But that is only four

808
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: point three percent of the overall thirty nine point nine

809
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: billion tons of carbon emissions that the US overall put out,

810
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,400
Speaker 1: So that's very far from second. That makes it the

811
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 1: tenth most polluting industry. Other things beat it, agriculture, transportation,

812
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:46,600
Speaker 1: all of all of the Captain planet villains.

813
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 3: Basically, I apologize, man, I did not get a chance

814
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 3: to look at this article. Is it just relating to

815
00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 3: the US, do we know? Or is it global? Like

816
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,239
Speaker 3: because I'm just imagining all this fashion industry and all

817
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 3: the you know, different different plants that are producing all

818
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 3: the stuff that's used in fashion that are across the

819
00:49:09,760 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 3: world in very specific places. Because I'm it just makes

820
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:16,760
Speaker 3: you wonder if they're looking at emissions that are actually

821
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,279
Speaker 3: taking place on US soil, or if they're looking at

822
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,919
Speaker 3: all of the emissions that the industry gives out.

823
00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:25,400
Speaker 1: And there's that intersection again, right, because these are global

824
00:49:25,480 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 1: supply chains. If we look at the emissions just in

825
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,800
Speaker 1: the US, and that's an excellent question where that stat

826
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: is centered, then we're not looking at the emissions made

827
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 1: by factories where many of these pieces of clothing are manufactured.

828
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: This industry, there is there is another there's a more

829
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 1: global snack snapshot A snack shot. Sorry, guys, there's let's

830
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: keep it in I like snack shot, start using that.

831
00:49:54,040 --> 00:49:57,960
Speaker 1: But there's there's a more global snap shot here. In

832
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: August of this year. Just last month, the same outfit,

833
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,960
Speaker 1: the Global Fashion Agenda, partnered with another returning guest to

834
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:12,240
Speaker 1: our show, the consulting group McKenzie, which is a very powerful,

835
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: very weird, scary thing. Efficient efficient.

836
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:18,920
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, they.

837
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 1: Are efficient. They got together and they did a new estimate.

838
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 1: They calculated a new estimate, and they found that the

839
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 1: fashion industry contributes to overall four percent of greenhouse gas

840
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: in the overall in the world. And there's a thing

841
00:50:41,040 --> 00:50:43,400
Speaker 1: that makes these numbers weird and significant, and that's what

842
00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: we've been kind of dancing around. The fashion industry is

843
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: an aggregate industry. It's a culmination of multiple other related industries,

844
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: some that are obvious and some not so much.

845
00:50:58,239 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 6: That's right.

846
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 5: I mean, think about out the supply chain of what

847
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 5: goes into fashion. You know, there's agriculture involved. We've got

848
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 5: cotton agricultural product. We've got the fossil fuels that are

849
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:16,359
Speaker 5: required to ship these raw materials to the factories where

850
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:19,399
Speaker 5: they are then spun into the material that is then

851
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 5: used to actually make the clothing. Polyester a durable fabric,

852
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:28,799
Speaker 5: kind of maligned, but it's used a lot, even if

853
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:31,240
Speaker 5: you don't know it, because it's durable, but it's made

854
00:51:31,280 --> 00:51:35,000
Speaker 5: from plastic or that's an additive in an electricity leather.

855
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,919
Speaker 5: You know, livestock's involved in part of the supply chain,

856
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:41,120
Speaker 5: and there's just so many other industries that really play

857
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,400
Speaker 5: like shipping all of this stuff that play a huge

858
00:51:43,760 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 5: role in here. And there's waste at every step of

859
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,960
Speaker 5: the process. So in terms of waste, the fashion industry

860
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,720
Speaker 5: is responsible for ninety two million tons of solid waste

861
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:58,600
Speaker 5: per year, and that's across the entire planet, and that

862
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 5: represents four percent of the two point one two billion

863
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:06,359
Speaker 5: tons of waste dumped each year. And that's even more

864
00:52:06,560 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 5: than incredibly toxic e waste, which would be like electronic

865
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:14,239
Speaker 5: components that are discarded, and more than twice as much

866
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,800
Speaker 5: as supermarkets create food waste.

867
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 6: And that one in particular never sits right with me.

868
00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:23,359
Speaker 5: And I have a thing to bring up when we

869
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 5: get to some of the actual waste of products that

870
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:29,000
Speaker 5: comes from the fashion.

871
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:32,239
Speaker 3: Insh Yeah, there's definitely stuff there. You guys, I never

872
00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 3: thought about plastic buttons and components for garments, and Chloe,

873
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:42,560
Speaker 3: I never thought about the amount of plastic that exists

874
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 3: just due to those things.

875
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,760
Speaker 5: Think about that the shipping contant container of Lego parts

876
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 5: that spilled into the ocean, you know, I mean buttons

877
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 5: would be probably shipped to be a whole shipping container

878
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:55,879
Speaker 5: full of millions of buttons and tiny little you know

879
00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,719
Speaker 5: what else would they be? Little you know, little accoutrements,

880
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:02,959
Speaker 5: little like like highlight things like pace.

881
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: That's plastic zippers, aglets, you know, which is a totally

882
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:12,120
Speaker 1: unnecessary word that I love in English?

883
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 6: Is that what that has been?

884
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:14,880
Speaker 5: The little piece at the end of hoodie strings?

885
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,759
Speaker 1: That's correct. Yeah, So that's that's my show and tell.

886
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 1: Not quite a conspiracy makeup kit, but you know, we're

887
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:29,440
Speaker 1: working semi live. You're right, right, right, most people listening

888
00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:32,480
Speaker 1: to this are properly wearing some form of plastic under person.

889
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:35,560
Speaker 1: You know, this stuff is everywhere, as we said, so

890
00:53:36,280 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 1: that's kind of the lay of the land. And so

891
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 1: our next question should logically be what are cosmetic and

892
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:48,200
Speaker 1: fashion manufacturers doing to address these issues? To their credit,

893
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:53,120
Speaker 1: multiple manufacturers have taken steps to combat one or more

894
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: of the specific issues described above. Makers of cosmetics have

895
00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 1: responded to some of the demands of what are called

896
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:05,600
Speaker 1: cruelty free movements, you know, and large clothing companies have

897
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:12,160
Speaker 1: meticulously analyzed their supply chains. I'll say it often in

898
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 1: response to an outcry about exploitative labor or you know,

899
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:18,840
Speaker 1: dodgy environmental practices.

900
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:22,760
Speaker 3: But it's good. It means your voice matters, right.

901
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: Right, right again, it's empowerment. And in some cases they

902
00:54:27,200 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 1: have instituted sustainability programs of one sort or another, like

903
00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: Loreal's goal to use more recycled substances. However, at the

904
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:43,440
Speaker 1: same time, there's another factor at play. Some companies, some

905
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: of the same companies, actually are accelerating this trend of

906
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:50,799
Speaker 1: pollution do in part to a phenomenon that I think

907
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:56,480
Speaker 1: everybody's waiting to hear us say, fast fashion, the idea

908
00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,400
Speaker 1: that you can you don't have to buy something and

909
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:03,719
Speaker 1: keep it or twenty five years. You can buy the

910
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 1: hottest look of that season, of that moment, and then

911
00:55:07,960 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 1: you can move on to the next. It will be affordable,

912
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:11,520
Speaker 1: it will be disposable.

913
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:14,239
Speaker 5: That's right, because the previous version of that would have

914
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 5: been luxury goods that were so expensive there would be

915
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:20,600
Speaker 5: a resale market for them. Even if it's not you,

916
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:23,920
Speaker 5: You're gonna sell it you for one hundreds of dollars potentially,

917
00:55:23,960 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 5: if it's like a Gucci item, then maybe it's two

918
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 5: seasons old, but there's still a market for that, whereas

919
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 5: like something from Zara or eh and M. You know,

920
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,120
Speaker 5: less of an aftermarket for stuff like that. But that's

921
00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:37,919
Speaker 5: the part that drives me insane. I mean, every year,

922
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,160
Speaker 5: the world consumes more than eighty billion items of clothing,

923
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 5: and the average individual in the US tosses eighty two

924
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:48,440
Speaker 5: pounds of textile goods out each year, which adds up

925
00:55:48,480 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 5: to eleven million tons for the entire US. But like,

926
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:55,000
Speaker 5: in the same way that waste, food waste makes no

927
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 5: sense to me, like because there's organizations that should be

928
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,680
Speaker 5: able to funnel that to people that really need it.

929
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 5: Shouldn't that also be the case for a lot of

930
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 5: this clothing waste?

931
00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:07,440
Speaker 1: Oh god, yeah, I was thinking about putting this in

932
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: or if we should save it for a different episode.

933
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 1: But it's a terrible point and a very good one.

934
00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,839
Speaker 1: A lot of times that clothing that you donate if

935
00:56:17,880 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 1: you live in a Western country that is supposed to

936
00:56:20,080 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 1: go help other people who need clothing. A lot of

937
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 1: times that has a negative effect on the population people

938
00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:31,520
Speaker 1: are attempting to help. It can kill local textile businesses

939
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:34,960
Speaker 1: because they can't compete with palette after palette of free

940
00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 1: t shirts and pants and so on. It's just it's

941
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 1: the sustainable price versus virtually free. And a lot of

942
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:46,320
Speaker 1: that stuff, by the way, doesn't get straight up donated

943
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:49,480
Speaker 1: to people in need. It goes to someone who sells it.

944
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:55,520
Speaker 1: So there are different rent seekers and opportunists at every

945
00:56:55,640 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 1: corner of this and and you're right, there is a

946
00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:02,879
Speaker 1: lot of waste. One time, I don't want to get

947
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:06,359
Speaker 1: too personal here, but one time, in our fair metropolis

948
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:09,640
Speaker 1: of Atlanta, I almost got arrested for giving away bread

949
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 1: that I that I got day old bread from a bakery.

950
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,399
Speaker 1: I was walking around like some kind of cut rate

951
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 1: late summer Santa Claus with a big old plastic bag

952
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:23,720
Speaker 1: of old day old croissants and fukasha and so on,

953
00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 1: and handing it out to people want to bread and uh,

954
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:29,560
Speaker 1: and the police found me.

955
00:57:30,160 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 3: What do they say to you?

956
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:35,120
Speaker 1: You have to have a license to give away bread?

957
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, if it's if it's a food product. There

958
00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:45,320
Speaker 3: are now crazy regulations and stipulations I might be poisoning people.

959
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 1: I don't have any kind of like, uh health inspection,

960
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:51,040
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So I guess it. I

961
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:51,959
Speaker 1: guess it makes sense.

962
00:57:52,040 --> 00:57:54,680
Speaker 3: Ben think about doing that right now, just having a

963
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 3: bag of begets and instead of you know, doing things

964
00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 3: that you know, well known comedians talk about with bags

965
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 3: of baghetti, you are just taking them around and just

966
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 3: handing them to people, even if you've got gloves on,

967
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:09,160
Speaker 3: even if you're masked up. I'm just trying to imagine.

968
00:58:08,720 --> 00:58:11,440
Speaker 1: That I just wanted to walk around with snacks and

969
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 1: I didn't think about it, you know.

970
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:16,840
Speaker 5: So it's technically illegal to like give someone your leftover

971
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,760
Speaker 5: food or something like if you have, you know, a

972
00:58:20,800 --> 00:58:24,240
Speaker 5: doggie bag and and the homeless individual asks you for

973
00:58:24,400 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 5: money and instead you say, here, take my food. Is

974
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:28,800
Speaker 5: that Could you get in trouble for doing that?

975
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 1: That's a good question. I would like to think that

976
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:34,480
Speaker 1: most people wouldn't stop you from doing that because it's

977
00:58:34,560 --> 00:58:37,760
Speaker 1: just a basic gesture of human kindness. Maybe they would

978
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:40,880
Speaker 1: stop you if it were if like there were reports

979
00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 1: of someone purposely poisoning people that way. And they were

980
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 1: on the lookout. But I don't think anybody's gotten stopped.

981
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 1: You may have been told perhaps don't feed these people,

982
00:58:52,560 --> 00:58:55,920
Speaker 1: or you're not helping them, you're accelerating a problem or something,

983
00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:59,160
Speaker 1: But I don't see someone getting arrested for it, you know.

984
00:58:59,680 --> 00:59:03,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, arrested seems a little harsh, but maybe fined

985
00:59:04,160 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 3: or warned unless you're you're a chronic giver of your food.

986
00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, well, I guess it just depends on where

987
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 3: you are, Like what city. I bet you it changes city, country,

988
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 3: local area on that.

989
00:59:19,280 --> 00:59:21,440
Speaker 1: Let us know your stance on that, folks, Let us

990
00:59:21,480 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: know your stance on whether or not there are GoIF

991
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:32,080
Speaker 1: give your own food, give out your food laws on

992
00:59:32,160 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: the books where in your neck of the global woods.

993
00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:39,200
Speaker 1: I do want to say that that statistic we just

994
00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:42,840
Speaker 1: mentioned the idea, like a lot of people listening in

995
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:46,560
Speaker 1: the US are thinking, did I really throw out eighty

996
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 1: two pounds of clothing last year? We have to consider Yeah,

997
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:55,880
Speaker 1: that average sounds crazy because we're talking about an average

998
00:59:55,880 --> 01:00:00,240
Speaker 1: of three hundred and twenty eight something million people, So

999
01:00:00,280 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: they're probably, you know, like any other average of that size,

1000
01:00:03,360 --> 01:00:05,840
Speaker 1: there's a very small group at the top that is

1001
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 1: just like, why would you wear the same clothes twice?

1002
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:09,680
Speaker 3: What?

1003
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: Am I a farmer?

1004
01:00:11,160 --> 01:00:11,360
Speaker 7: You know?

1005
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 1: People like there are people who live very different lives

1006
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 1: than most of the other people, and then there are

1007
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 1: people on the other end of the spectrum who are like,

1008
01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:23,320
Speaker 1: why would I own two shirts? I have one Torso

1009
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:27,720
Speaker 1: there's a lot of variance between. But what's happening in

1010
01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:31,440
Speaker 1: a way that's affecting everybody in that span everybody who

1011
01:00:31,440 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: buys clothing, is that just like the Just like when

1012
01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: the price of mirrors dropped and they became more affordable,

1013
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:41,000
Speaker 1: the price of what's regarded as high fashion is dropping.

1014
01:00:41,200 --> 01:00:43,800
Speaker 1: That's a good thing, it would seem for consumers. It

1015
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:46,960
Speaker 1: means we can buy more stuff, and so we do.

1016
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:51,280
Speaker 1: In fact, we buy four hundred percent more stuff like

1017
01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:55,520
Speaker 1: this than we did twenty five years ago. And we

1018
01:00:55,600 --> 01:00:59,280
Speaker 1: don't wear it forever, of course, and it doesn't magically

1019
01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: disappear just because we can't see it. We're adults, we

1020
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: have object permanence. We know things exist outside of our vision.

1021
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:08,280
Speaker 1: This stuff all goes somewhere.

1022
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:13,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it does. And just remember that dropping price of

1023
01:01:13,400 --> 01:01:16,960
Speaker 3: your fashion has a great effect on your pockets. But

1024
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 3: it has a terrible effect on the people attempting to

1025
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 3: manufacture it so quickly in all of those places across

1026
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 3: the world who are furiously trying to make as many

1027
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 3: pairs of pants as possible as they can for almost nothing.

1028
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: So then what should consumers do? Should we should we

1029
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,640
Speaker 1: posse up and say we're going to collectively support more

1030
01:01:40,680 --> 01:01:44,000
Speaker 1: sustainable supply chains, even if it's more expensive. Should we

1031
01:01:44,120 --> 01:01:46,600
Speaker 1: lobby our government leaders, as you point out, Matt as

1032
01:01:46,640 --> 01:01:51,280
Speaker 1: an excellent observation, that does result in change, you know?

1033
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:54,120
Speaker 1: Or should we just non This is tough to say

1034
01:01:54,160 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: in a capitalist economy. Should we just buy fewer things?

1035
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 1: Should we just buy less stuff? I don't know.

1036
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:05,760
Speaker 3: You can't do that. You can't do that. Don't you

1037
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:10,200
Speaker 3: gotta buy everything? Buy more things. That Amazon Prime account

1038
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:11,520
Speaker 3: you've got is just sitting there.

1039
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:17,520
Speaker 1: Waiting America the fire sale. Right, everything must go. Here's

1040
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 1: here's the fact of the matter. So companies are companies.

1041
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 1: They're going to follow the most profitable business model. So logically,

1042
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: these problems are a type of stuff. They don't want

1043
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:32,120
Speaker 1: you to know until solving these problems becomes more profitable

1044
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 1: than ignoring them. And that's again, that's not to say

1045
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 1: fashion companies are some kind of league of evil mutants,

1046
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:43,640
Speaker 1: league of well dressed supervillains or something. It's just that

1047
01:02:44,320 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 1: your favorite fashion line is like any other business, They're

1048
01:02:47,160 --> 01:02:50,400
Speaker 1: gonna ultimately follow wherever the bottom line leads.

1049
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 3: And there really is no easy answer, as we alluded

1050
01:02:53,040 --> 01:02:56,240
Speaker 3: to earlier, when just thinking about something like animal testing.

1051
01:02:56,240 --> 01:02:59,360
Speaker 3: That's one tiny little aspect of this. All of these

1052
01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:03,480
Speaker 3: are our debates, really, and I think that's why important,

1053
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 3: why it's important for us to talk about them. So

1054
01:03:06,560 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 3: we don't want the conversation to end here. We don't

1055
01:03:08,400 --> 01:03:10,520
Speaker 3: want this to just be, you know, something that Ben

1056
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,560
Speaker 3: and Nola and I talk about and you and Paul

1057
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:17,160
Speaker 3: listen to Mission control. Of course, we want it to

1058
01:03:17,160 --> 01:03:19,480
Speaker 3: be you know, let's come up with some great ideas.

1059
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:22,640
Speaker 3: Let's talk about this stuff. You can begin the conversation

1060
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,160
Speaker 3: with us, or just amongst you know, a friend, maybe

1061
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 3: a family member, just talk about some of this stuff.

1062
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 3: If you want to talk to us, you can reach

1063
01:03:29,040 --> 01:03:32,200
Speaker 3: us on social media on Twitter and Facebook, we are

1064
01:03:32,240 --> 01:03:36,240
Speaker 3: Conspiracy Stuff. On Instagram we are Conspiracy Stuff Show.

1065
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 1: And if you would like to talk to us in

1066
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:44,280
Speaker 1: semi person, then please give us a call on our

1067
01:03:44,320 --> 01:03:50,600
Speaker 1: own personal bat phone. It's one eight three three st dwytk.

1068
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:54,440
Speaker 1: I like that reaverb Mett and you'll have three minutes.

1069
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:57,440
Speaker 1: Let us know what's on your mind. Anything goes. Just

1070
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:00,560
Speaker 1: let us know whether you are comfortable with us using

1071
01:04:00,600 --> 01:04:02,560
Speaker 1: your voice, sand or name on the air.

1072
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:05,880
Speaker 3: And if you don't want to do that stuff, you

1073
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:10,280
Speaker 3: can head on over to YouTube dot com slash conspiracy stuff.

1074
01:04:10,560 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 3: That's where you will find videos, hopefully from this very podcast.

1075
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 3: We shall see. There's gonna be tons of videos there.

1076
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:22,640
Speaker 3: It's gonna be mostly us, at least in the near future,

1077
01:04:23,080 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 3: talking like this, but with cameras so you can look

1078
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:28,120
Speaker 3: at us and we can hang out that way. But

1079
01:04:28,280 --> 01:04:30,880
Speaker 3: there are other surprises coming too, so I don't know.

1080
01:04:31,040 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 3: Just make sure you subscribe and tell your friends. Okay, subscribe, tell.

1081
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:38,440
Speaker 5: Your friends, leave a friendly comment in the comments, and

1082
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:41,720
Speaker 5: take that same attitude and bring it to iTunes and

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01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:44,520
Speaker 5: leave us a nice review in the iTunes store. Really

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01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:46,600
Speaker 5: great way to help people discover the show and kind

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01:04:46,600 --> 01:04:50,760
Speaker 5: of up the profile of it in the magical Apple algorithm.

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Speaker 5: You can also find us online at Here's where it

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01:04:53,720 --> 01:04:55,840
Speaker 5: Gets Crazy, our delightful Facebook group.

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Speaker 1: Yeah and you know, yes, we're gonna be honest. We're

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01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:01,840
Speaker 1: a little old school. We still call it iTunes. Just

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01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:08,160
Speaker 1: call it Apple podcast. I don't know. It's a learning curve. Yeah,

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01:05:08,200 --> 01:05:12,880
Speaker 1: but while you're on the internet. If you hate phone calls,

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01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:16,040
Speaker 1: we get it. You hate social media, we also clearly

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01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:20,000
Speaker 1: get that you can always contact us, regardless of the

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01:05:20,000 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: time of day, regardless of what you're wearing. We want

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01:05:23,920 --> 01:05:25,920
Speaker 1: to hear from you. You can hit us up at

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01:05:25,960 --> 01:05:28,160
Speaker 1: our good old fashioned email address where.

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Speaker 7: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

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Speaker 3: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

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Speaker 3: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 3: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.