WEBVTT - Paul Feig 0:00:00.800 --> 0:00:08.719 Hi, I'm Paul fig I directed about nineteen episodes of 0:00:08.800 --> 0:00:11.799 the Office. I was a co exact producer for one season, 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:15.560 season five, and uh, it was probably my favorite job 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:24.320 I've ever done working on this show. Hello everyone, and 0:00:24.560 --> 0:00:28.760 welcome to this week's episode of The Office. Deep Dive. 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:33.800 Probably my favorite job I've ever done. I am your host, 0:00:34.200 --> 0:00:38.880 Brian Baumgartner, my guest today. Is the absolutely the only 0:00:38.920 --> 0:00:43.880 way to describe him. A bundle of joy Paul Feig. Now, 0:00:44.360 --> 0:00:47.920 Paul was a director and a producer on the Office. 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:52.879 That's true, but those titles don't quite do him justice. 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:56.600 Paul was a core member of the team starting in 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:00.200 season two, so much so that when Greg starts did 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:03.720 working more and more on Parks and Wreck in season five, 0:01:04.240 --> 0:01:08.880 Paul became our number one go to in house person 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:12.800 on set for any questions or issues that came up. 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:20.000 Paul was like the consigliari of the Office, you could say, 0:01:20.040 --> 0:01:24.200 and he had a huge influence on the show, as 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:28.680 all good consigliaries do. But it wasn't just our show. 0:01:29.160 --> 0:01:33.880 Paul also created Freaks and Geeks and has made tons 0:01:34.319 --> 0:01:40.600 of fantastic comedy movies, Bridesmaids, Spy, The New Ghostbusters, so 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:44.960 many more. And here's the thing. Paul once said that 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:49.960 our casting director Alison Jones changed the face of comedy, 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:54.680 which is true, but Allison says that Paul, along with 0:01:54.920 --> 0:02:01.520 Judd Apatow, changed the genre of comedy itself. Plus, Paul 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:05.680 is hilarious. Just check out his Instagram you'll know what 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:08.640 I mean. He's a super nice guy. And to top 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:14.160 it off, he is the most dapper man in Hollywood. 0:02:14.360 --> 0:02:18.640 Definitely the only person who showed up for our conversation 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:24.240 in a three piece suit. So on that note, here 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:33.040 he is Paul fig Bubble and Squeak. I love it, 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:39.680 Bubble and squeak on Bubble and Squeaker cookie every month 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:55.840 left over from the NABB before. How are you? I'm good? 0:02:55.880 --> 0:03:00.160 Are you look amazing always? Yeah? You don't make yours like? 0:03:00.840 --> 0:03:06.760 Great to see you? Oh my god. Yes, it has 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:11.560 been amazingly fun. Yeah, I mean, it's thank you so much. 0:03:11.840 --> 0:03:15.400 Oh no, this worked. Sitting down? Um, what are you 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.320 about that? You're working on something shooting pot It was 0:03:18.360 --> 0:03:21.519 going to shoot a pilot in North Carolina, so ready 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:23.120 for that, and then we're gonna do a movie after that. 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:26.560 So very nice and busy which is nice. Yeah, what 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.680 what we're in North Carolina is a pilots Wilmington's. I 0:03:30.800 --> 0:03:34.520 was there. I mean it's been now, Oh my gosh, 0:03:34.960 --> 0:03:37.640 maybe it's been a little bit of time. This show, 0:03:37.760 --> 0:03:40.400 which you probably never heard of. It was one of 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.080 those weird things. It was a drama that I was 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:46.080 a fan of and they called and I was like, yeah, 0:03:46.160 --> 0:03:49.640 it was um good behavior. Oh yeah, oh that's a 0:03:49.640 --> 0:03:52.280 cool show. Oh my gosh. It was so much fun. 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:55.760 And Wilmington's was great. Oh good, Yeah, that's my first 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.040 time when I was an actor at it. Back in 0:03:59.000 --> 0:04:03.120 ninety four war I shot a movie there, Heavyweights. We 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:06.040 shot that, but it was that was more Asheville Henderson Bills. 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:10.120 It's more Blue Ridge Mountains. But I loved North Carolina. 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:12.000 It was one of those cases. We have this every 0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:13.960 time I shoot anywhere. It's what we call I want 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:16.080 to live there. Iteas you start looking for houses, I 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:19.720 got to live here. Yeah, let's just start looking. Huh. 0:04:19.760 --> 0:04:22.200 I wonder what this model money will get me here 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:26.560 on the ocean, and I always solve it by going, okay, now, 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:29.880 flash forward. It's the final day of production and the 0:04:29.920 --> 0:04:32.040 trucks are pulling out of town and you're they're waving 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:34.960 like all right here I am, and it's like, all right, 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:38.480 what have I done? Lovely towns? But what the hell 0:04:38.520 --> 0:04:43.200 are we show biz people are gonna do? I know? Um, okay, 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:47.560 So what we're talking about is The Office. And now, 0:04:48.640 --> 0:04:52.720 six years after we've stopped film management six years, it's 0:04:53.480 --> 0:04:57.320 by basically any measure, the most watch show on television. 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.760 Totally insane, and people come to me all the time 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.000 about it and kids, Well, that was the thing that 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:06.880 always blew my mind. I wrote a couple of y 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:10.159 A books, um, and so did these like middle school tours, 0:05:10.640 --> 0:05:12.960 and so when I would be promoting the book, it 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:14.800 was kind of like, the kids are like whatever. So 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:17.599 I just learned to pandor completely like I work on 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:20.560 the Office, and they would go crazy. All they wanted 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.360 to do was talk about The Office and they loved it. So, yeah, 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:27.240 it's got such a relevance. How did you get involved 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:29.840 originally in the show. Did you watch the British version 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:31.560 of the show. Yeah, I watched the British version of 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.000 the show, and actually at the time the agency I 0:05:34.080 --> 0:05:36.480 was at came to me and a million other people 0:05:36.480 --> 0:05:38.400 who had you know, had shows and said you want 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.039 to do this, and I was immediately like, no, why 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:42.200 would I possibly want to do that, Like, I can't 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.280 take that on. You can only fail like as a showrunner, 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:47.599 right totally. It's just like it's so iconic, you're like that, 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:49.839 you can't you can't do it, just get away from it. 0:05:49.920 --> 0:05:52.200 So um So then yeah, a few years later I 0:05:52.200 --> 0:05:54.640 had heard that they were, you know, doing it. And 0:05:54.720 --> 0:05:57.680 actually the irony was I was shooting a pilot with 0:05:57.800 --> 0:06:01.080 Rodney Rothman called Early Bird back then, and so when 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.520 we were shooting this scene writer's room scene, it was 0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:08.080 at the same studio where Greg Daniels was was editing 0:06:08.120 --> 0:06:10.480 the pilot, and I remember him going like, hey, guys, 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:12.400 come in, come in. I'm gonna get your opinion on something. 0:06:12.880 --> 0:06:14.680 We're trying to figure out what the theme music is 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:16.880 gonna be. And so he played a couple of different 0:06:16.880 --> 0:06:18.600 songs and then the piano one came up and we 0:06:18.600 --> 0:06:20.120 were like, yeah, that, I think that's the one that's 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:21.880 really good. So I kind of like, wow, I was 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:25.360 there at the beginning for the piano thing. That's amazing 0:06:25.480 --> 0:06:28.640 and then wild and then and then what happened was 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.120 when he came on you know, you know, the whole 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:33.520 thing about how it had to be the exact script 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.280 from the British version. Remember watching it and just kind 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.880 of going like, oh, I was hoping it would be 0:06:38.880 --> 0:06:41.359 something else. I was such a big Corral fan, and 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:42.960 so I kind of had this thing in my head of, oh, 0:06:43.000 --> 0:06:45.080 I guess maybe it's not gonna you know, go, even 0:06:45.080 --> 0:06:47.960 though it was great in it. And then and I 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:50.120 didn't watch the rest of the six, and then my 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:51.480 agent called me up next year and said, oh, you 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:53.280 know that shows coming back and it's you know, it's 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:54.720 gonna be this hot show. And I was like, well, 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:56.760 I don't know, you know, but I like everybody involved 0:06:56.800 --> 0:06:58.760 so much. So then I went and watched the other 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:01.600 five and went like, holy smokes, this is so funny. 0:07:01.640 --> 0:07:03.360 When I got a diversity day, I was like, this 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:05.440 is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. So 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:07.560 then I came on board for for the first full 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:10.320 season and um, yeah, but I was at that first 0:07:10.320 --> 0:07:12.440 table read where they read the Dundees and all that, 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.160 and then mine was Office Olympics was my first one. Yeah, 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:18.880 Office Olympics pretty early and in season two I think 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:21.400 that's the fourth third or fourth episode. I think. Yeah. 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:25.280 So Greg told me something interesting that he on the 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:29.760 pilot decided that if they stayed faithful to the British script, 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:35.720 the network couldn't give any notes. I buy that because 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.160 they were like, well they worked over there, like how 0:07:38.200 --> 0:07:40.840 could you? And so what what he viewed his job 0:07:40.920 --> 0:07:45.280 on on the pilot was to create the world. It 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:48.440 was really brilliant what he did. I mean the fact 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:50.320 that you know, it was partly some of you guys 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:52.440 got cast. Other people were writers. He said, why don't 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:54.520 you be on the show, And it created that great 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.560 world for the for the docuse style, you know, the 0:07:57.720 --> 0:08:00.560 big thing that you know, we've kind of all figured 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:03.720 out going into season two. You know, the first six 0:08:03.800 --> 0:08:06.160 were trying to be very much like the British Office 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:09.360 in the sense that Steve Correll's character was really unlikable. 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.440 And it was when the forty year old virgin came 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:16.000 out on that break that everybody goes like, wait, what's up, 0:08:16.360 --> 0:08:18.000 and it's like, oh, no, he's lovable. He can be 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.320 a lovable loser, you know, and kind of be insufferable, 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:22.280 but he has to have victories, and so you know 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:24.800 that was getting seated in but it was really that 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:27.760 moment I think we all felt in Office Olympics when 0:08:27.840 --> 0:08:30.560 when Steve made the decision to start crying, you know, 0:08:30.680 --> 0:08:33.640 or yet Terry when the Metal ceremony, Remember we were 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:35.800 all kind of like that's it, Oh my god, and 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:37.880 it was just um and it felt like it just 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.320 you could feel that shift. Well, speaking of that, that 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:45.480 moment and the Halloween moment, both directed by you, people 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:48.360 have talked about the softening of him and the showing 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.080 of his humanity. Yeah. Well remember in the in the 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.040 stage directions for the Metal Ceremony, it was like everybody's 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:55.560 kind of laughing at him, so it was gonna it 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:57.440 was supposed to be this big burn on him. But 0:08:57.520 --> 0:08:59.720 I mean it's all Steve. I mean, Steve made this 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.680 this vision to get emotional, and I remember we're just 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:04.880 we're else standing there like oh my good. So I'm 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:07.400 just rightening up, going like, go go further with it, 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.079 Go further with it. Um. It's this thing that I've 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.240 just discovered over the years because I love British comedy 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:16.400 so much, and Britt's really love unlikable lead characters because 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:18.360 then they just get to see them torn apart and 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:20.440 there's some sort of a come upance with that, much 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:23.800 like the British press to take people down. But American 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:26.640 audiences can't get behind it. It makes them very frustrated. 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.719 They want American audiences just want to invest in the 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:33.200 lead character. It's it's our the beauty of how lovely. 0:09:33.240 --> 0:09:35.360 But a teenage country we are. We still have optimism 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:37.400 and all that, and so I think it's great, but 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.040 it's it's just this lesson I've learned over and over again, 0:09:40.040 --> 0:09:42.840 but I never learned it as fully as I did 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:47.319 from my experience on the Office. Yeah, it's interesting because 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:50.720 if you look at sort of the iconic dramas that 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.360 were happening around the time that The Office was going, 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:58.160 they're unlikable characters that found humanity. Like if you think 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:02.680 of Tony Soprano or um Walter White or you know, 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:06.920 you have these bad bad men that find a humanity 0:10:07.040 --> 0:10:10.120 that people somehow root for it. Did that was that 0:10:10.200 --> 0:10:12.320 a shift or was it sort of okay in terms 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:14.640 of drama but not comedy here? I think it was. 0:10:14.760 --> 0:10:19.000 I think it's the difference between more niche cable stuff 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:22.040 and mainstream network stuff. You know, because this is back 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:25.240 when you know, well you guys started before networks ruled 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:27.840 the roost, which is just not that way anymore. And 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:30.640 so I think, you know, to have that broad appeal, 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:35.720 you have to have this formula, right. Part of what 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:40.400 we've talked about is that kind of this revolution in 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:43.480 terms of changing the face of network television really started 0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:50.160 with you and Freaking Geeks. Um, what I know, I'll 0:10:50.200 --> 0:10:51.920 think full credit. I don't know if it's thank you, 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:54.520 Brian no, I think. I mean, you know, we talked 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:59.040 to Alison Jones, and Alison talked about like her affinity 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.120 from Misfits and you know, she cast Golden Girls and 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:06.080 Family Ties and all of these traditional network shows, and 0:11:06.120 --> 0:11:08.600 then she talked about Freaks and Geeks being the first 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.040 cool show that she did, and that she had an 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.720 affinity you know, for people who were sort of different. 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:16.640 You do as well, Yeah, well, I mean, you know, 0:11:16.679 --> 0:11:20.160 Freaks and Gigs was really my reaction to all the 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:23.600 years of stuff I'd watched about cool kids and cool 0:11:23.679 --> 0:11:25.560 people in high schools, about all of the you know, 0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:27.480 it's like soap operas. I was just like, I can't 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:30.640 take this anymore. Just it has no relevance to my past. 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:32.400 What's and it makes me feel like a weirdo, like 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:35.240 what group was I in? So I really just kind 0:11:35.240 --> 0:11:37.880 of wrote it as you know, as a reaction to that. 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:41.160 Um no, I mean, you know there was things like 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:43.560 Ally McBeal and stuff that we're kind of playing in 0:11:43.600 --> 0:11:45.679 that world. There was also the movie Welcome to the 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:48.400 Dollhouse that came out was was really influential for a 0:11:48.400 --> 0:11:51.280 lot of people. And what it influenced at the networks 0:11:51.360 --> 0:11:52.680 was they were all kind of like, we need to 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:55.320 get a show like that. So I had kind of 0:11:55.760 --> 0:11:58.040 on the side written this spec pilot and it just 0:11:58.080 --> 0:12:00.720 happened to kind of match into that, and so, um 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:03.480 we we chopped it around and NBC just jumped on 0:12:03.559 --> 0:12:05.599 it in a great way. And we had one of 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:07.440 these amazing meetings where you come into go like we 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:09.200 have no notes, just go shoot it. And it's like 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.400 it was, you know, going like you you know, I 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:13.200 was all set for a fight of like you gotta 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:15.280 let us cast you know, nerdy kids. I don't want 0:12:15.280 --> 0:12:17.960 to cast like models, and then you know, and they 0:12:17.960 --> 0:12:20.200 were like, no, we agree. So yeah, so it was 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.320 really great and um yeah, I mean, you know, the 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:26.480 thing we brought that wasn't a lot of is just 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:29.040 the idea of like a bitter sweet comedy that's like 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:31.520 not a comedy and not a drama that's sort of both. 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:33.800 It's like real life, you know. But that's why we 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.680 got canceled. We you know, we only aired twelve episodes, 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.800 and the people at the network, we're in love with 0:12:39.840 --> 0:12:42.720 the show, but the heads of the network just couldn't 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.040 figure it out because it just didn't It didn't do 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.360 what a normal TV show does. It wasn't it wasn't 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.040 wish fulfillment, you know. I remember them always going like, 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:53.000 why can't he why can't you get with the cheerleaders, Like, 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:55.320 we don't have a show because of the cheerleader. Wouldn't 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:58.199 be real life. None of our expers that were writers. 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:02.080 You want to bring a bunch of cool guys in, right, right, Yeah, 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:04.120 And then it just kind of yeah, we just you know, 0:13:04.200 --> 0:13:05.480 did it as long as we could not. You know, 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:07.600 I always credit NBC for letting us do what we 0:13:07.640 --> 0:13:13.600 did right well. And I think it's why everybody who 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:17.800 worked on the office has a huge soft spot for 0:13:17.920 --> 0:13:21.320 Kevin Riley because he stuck his neck out. You know, 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.440 he wasn't there when Freaks and Geeks was there, but 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.880 by the time the Office came around and he fought 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:29.120 for it. Yeah, I mean, yeah, he was the champion 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.080 the toll because I know that thing was I mean, 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:33.800 any other person would have canceled that show after the 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.800 first six just because of the ratings. Because of the ratings, 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.440 you know, was we were in the basement of the 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:42.839 ratings every week ironically with seven million viewers per week, 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:44.360 which now we would be with the biggest show into 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:51.079 you totally. Um. Gregg talked about that he was sure 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.560 that the show would fail, and he talked about that 0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:58.680 he felt like his contribution would that it would be 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:02.640 all worth it if somehow, in the smallest of way, 0:14:03.080 --> 0:14:06.800 he could nudge the ship of comedy in just a 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.880 different direction, coming out of a friend's will and gret 0:14:09.960 --> 0:14:12.680 you know, just that's something that just he found funnier. 0:14:12.720 --> 0:14:14.040 He was like, it would have been worth it, Like 0:14:14.080 --> 0:14:16.319 if I had just done that, well, I mean, you know, 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.040 I always say in comedy there are these moments that 0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.920 everything jumps ahead, and he definitely did that. But you know, 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:24.960 one of the many things that was in the way 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.840 of the Office taking off in the beginning was that style, 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:30.640 was that docu style with the zooming camera. Now we're 0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:32.520 so used to it and nobody talks about it. But 0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:34.560 I don't know, you've probably heard this too. You know, 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:36.240 I can't watch it. It It makes me sick. I want 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.000 to throw up. It's the things go moving around. But 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:42.800 I always credit YouTube kind of created a world in 0:14:42.880 --> 0:14:45.600 which we could do this because, you know, comedy before 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.920 that was very over lit, very you know, three camera looking, 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.320 or it was a movie just very you know, here's 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:53.440 the shots to get the shots, and it was very 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.400 joke oriented to everything was setup, jokes out of jokebody's 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.520 really snappy and all this. And because of YouTube, people 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:03.640 started needs so much humor in captured moments and things 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:06.320 just happening on the fly and that's real, and that 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:09.720 comedy became completely behavioral. And I felt over the last 0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:12.240 ten years, people have no patience for jokes at all. 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:14.480 If it sounds like a joke, and they're still jokes, 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:18.360 but they can't be like, you know, snappy, snappy, clever 0:15:18.440 --> 0:15:21.000 dialogue it has, you know, on Freaks Engage, our biggest 0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.880 laughs would be you know, Martin stars going you know that, 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:26.440 but they see them script and back in the old days, 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:29.320 like you need a joke here need a punchlines and no, no, 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.640 that's the joke. And you know, one of my best 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.840 friends is is Matt Reeves who did clover Field, you know, 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:36.840 and people were like, oh, oh my god, I'm throwing 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:38.640 up and all this stuff. You know, now it looks 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:40.960 we see it all the time, so it looks great. 0:15:41.000 --> 0:16:02.840 You don't have a problem with that. Yeah, Greg and 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:06.080 Ken kappas Matt and Randall. You know, one of the 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:10.520 things that they talked about was the idea that everything 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:13.280 is harder makes it better. Well, I mean it was 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.840 absolutely brilliant that he decided to get a real documentary 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:19.520 crew to shoot this. I mean, it's honestly, I'm doing 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.720 a pilot right now that I'm just completely copying what 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:26.240 he did because somebody like Randall and Matt, who were 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.760 so brilliant, they are writers, they are actors, they are 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.200 producers in the way that they do this because they 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.680 have the ability coming from that world to see the 0:16:34.720 --> 0:16:37.080 scene like they've never seen it before every time they 0:16:37.080 --> 0:16:40.160 shoot it. And as a director, it's my absolute favorite 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:43.760 way to work because it's all about performance and it's 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:46.960 also all about kind of we're the audience, the cameras, 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:48.720 the audience going wait what he said that, and like 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:51.560 and kind of zooming in, and their ability to know 0:16:51.920 --> 0:16:55.400 when to zoom in on somebody is just you know, 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:57.360 people go, oh, do you direct? That's like no, I 0:16:57.440 --> 0:17:00.520 don't like occasionally going oh wait, hold off, or like 0:17:00.760 --> 0:17:03.800 maybe pull wider here, but in general, just like you guys, 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:05.480 do what you're gonna do, and then we'll kind of 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:08.520 see if we want to change it. But cent of 0:17:08.560 --> 0:17:12.840 the time you're just like, man, they don't nailed it right, 0:17:13.160 --> 0:17:17.639 so smart. And you know, I've said before this and 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:22.840 through this process that every shot there was always a 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:27.080 discussion about where the camera was, not in terms of 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:31.280 getting the shot, but in terms of intention behavior character. 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:33.760 Is the camera in the same room, Are the character 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:35.800 is aware that it's in the room. How does that 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.879 change their behavior knowing that it's there? Yeah, totally. I 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:40.520 Mean That's why I've always had a hard time watching 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:44.199 reality TV real reality quote unquote, because I just go, 0:17:44.560 --> 0:17:47.400 everyone's on camera. They know they're on cameras, So I'm 0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:51.600 not watching normal behavior. I'm watching them playing to the cameras. 0:17:51.960 --> 0:17:55.879 And so the fact that they harness that it makes 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.199 the comedy so much better because you know, and we 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:00.359 always you know, they scripted it out a lot of 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:02.560 the time, but it was always like, when's the spy shot? 0:18:02.640 --> 0:18:04.399 When do we want to catch people where they have 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:06.240 no idea they're on camera. We're seeing the real person 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.000 versus people that are very aware of the camera. And 0:18:09.240 --> 0:18:11.480 it's such a part of the writing, it's such a 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:14.679 part of the storytelling that, you know, the fact that 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:17.720 they used that and and really played into it is great, 0:18:17.880 --> 0:18:20.639 even down to things like, you know, the the idea 0:18:20.720 --> 0:18:23.359 that on the Talking Heads, anybody who had kind of 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:26.480 a bright future got to be against the window that 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:28.960 looked out to the streets, and everybody who was stuck 0:18:29.000 --> 0:18:31.800 in the place got you know, the office behind them. Yes, 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:35.679 John Krasinski, are sorry, Jim being towards the women, Pam 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:39.199 exactly being toward the window. You know, remember coming in 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.000 the first time. You know, the first thing I ever 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:42.960 did when I was directing was the Talking Heads. You 0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:45.760 just started the day with the Talking Heads, and you know, 0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:47.560 I came in and got all this whole thing, like 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:49.240 really interview people, and I did, and you guys were 0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:50.679 so nice you put up with that. I asked all 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:53.040 these questions before I get to the scripted thing, but 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:54.879 it was just it was fun. I mean, for me, 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:57.680 it was just this. You know, I played with improv 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.359 on camera before, but not to this Dan, you know, 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:02.480 because I worked on the Arrested development, which was so 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:05.760 much fun. Those scripts are so dense that even though 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.439 we would do let improv, it just wouldn't get used because, 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:09.840 you know, because of the way they wanted to cut 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:13.199 the show. So you know the fact that Greg I 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.479 can never say enough stuff about Greg Daniels. He's just 0:19:15.640 --> 0:19:17.560 so brilliant and I learned more from him and I 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:19.920 think anybody in the business. You know, the fact that 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:24.720 he had the confidence to let us throw out storylines 0:19:24.840 --> 0:19:27.720 because we would stumble upon an improv. You know, in 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:30.320 Halloween is is the classic one with that thing which 0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:33.399 is Dwight, you know, looking like the you know, the 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.320 the Emperor, and we were just like, this is so funny, 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.360 and that he went for it, you know, that's so great. Yeah, 0:19:39.440 --> 0:19:44.080 that's a great example. Yeah, of just a story that 0:19:44.320 --> 0:19:46.919 is funny and let's let it play out as long 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.159 as it's a moment. You know, like I recognize that 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:51.200 he oh god, he looks like he's from Star Wars 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:53.560 and then then you will do it, Michael or whatever 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:57.560 you're saying. I said, yeah, totally. Um, I can't remember 0:19:57.600 --> 0:19:59.640 if we were if we did this. By the time 0:19:59.640 --> 0:20:02.520 you were there, it started to peter out because the 0:20:02.560 --> 0:20:05.000 shoots got more complicated. But one of the things that 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.639 Ken Kappas did and we did, I know, through the 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:12.760 first season was the thirty minutes of busy work. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:20:12.800 --> 0:20:17.760 so coming in and ultimately he wanted and you know, 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:22.480 Greg wanted it to feel like we had been there, 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:25.240 that we had been sitting there. So even us being 0:20:25.280 --> 0:20:28.920 there for thirty minutes, it's like your chair feels different 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:31.000 than if you just sit down, which I just I 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:34.119 think is so interesting. Yeah, it's fascinating. I Mean, one 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:35.399 of the things I love about Ken is like he 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:38.040 doesn't even say action. He just goes go ahead, And 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.239 which is great because there is that thing and I 0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:42.480 when I do my movies and all that I've I've 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:44.200 purged it out of what I do. Even i'd still 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:47.720 call action, but there is something about it leads up 0:20:47.720 --> 0:20:50.320 to this like okay, but yeah and go and it's 0:20:50.359 --> 0:20:51.919 it's a big event. That's why I always just go 0:20:52.000 --> 0:20:54.240 like go again. Go again, go again, to get people 0:20:54.280 --> 0:20:56.360 out of that thing of like here it comes, they've 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:58.840 just redone your makeup that never is rolling and go. 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:02.280 And so the thing on the office was always that 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:04.639 the cameras never turned off until we finished a scene. 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:08.080 So we just kept rolling, just kept going, moving around. Also, 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:10.000 the thing that that they were doing, and I think 0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:12.960 Ken started this too, is just saying, like all day, 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:15.240 everybody has to be here all day just because we're 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:16.560 in the office. Who don't know who we're going to 0:21:16.600 --> 0:21:18.119 see in the background because the camera is gonna be 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.439 moving around, you know. And that carried on for a 0:21:20.520 --> 0:21:24.080 couple of seasons, and people well started getting more successful. 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:26.879 I mean, I mean, but to a certain degree. It 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:30.399 was there throughout I mean, you know, even later and 0:21:30.480 --> 0:21:33.680 there were scenes that were taking place at the reception 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:37.240 area and Steve Carroll was sitting in you know, I mean, 0:21:37.280 --> 0:21:39.879 as Michael Scott was sitting in his office there in 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:42.800 the background. No, I mean, it definitely happened. But but 0:21:42.880 --> 0:21:44.879 who drew the short straw in that whole series? It 0:21:44.960 --> 0:21:48.880 was poor. He was the only when we saw through 0:21:48.880 --> 0:21:51.880 the window. He was the only person that we saw 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:54.159 when we do the talking heads that looked into the office, 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:58.879 so he had Felis somehow escaped rememby asking for some 0:21:59.000 --> 0:22:00.439 Phillis to come in a couple of times, I might 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:04.760 see your hand right. Just one other questions sort of 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:07.600 on this topic is, you know, basically, how do you 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:12.800 feel like the fact that there were ordinary looking people, 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:16.320 um that that and the fact that we were all 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:20.679 essentially unknown, how did that contribute to you think to 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:23.960 creating that world. Well, I made it much more relatable. 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:25.879 It's funny because I always say, like, you know, we 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:27.960 always try to go you know, like, let's just cast 0:22:27.960 --> 0:22:30.120 really normal people. The minisome he gets on camera, they 0:22:30.200 --> 0:22:33.560 do become appealing. It's just a natural thing that happens. 0:22:33.640 --> 0:22:36.240 So again it goes back to this docu style. I 0:22:36.600 --> 0:22:40.000 think that is just the key to everything because it 0:22:40.119 --> 0:22:44.879 takes all the grandiosity out of the filmmaking process. You know, 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:46.320 when you get your close up and you're in a 0:22:46.400 --> 0:22:48.160 movie or TV show and you get a close up, 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:52.159 we're tracking around you. It just becomes an event. It 0:22:52.240 --> 0:22:55.439 just eventizes little moments in life. And the fact that 0:22:55.480 --> 0:22:57.280 if everybody's sitting there and we're kind of at this 0:22:57.359 --> 0:23:00.600 sort of high angle because all the cameramen stand up 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:03.359 generally unless Randall's on his pootie scooty what you called it, 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:06.880 sitting on this little thing with wheels. Um, we're seeing 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:08.600 it the way if we would just walk through the office, 0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:10.280 that's how we we'd be watching it. And that's why 0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:12.439 I think with the zooming in on people, it's just 0:23:12.520 --> 0:23:15.080 like you as an audience, go oh, I would focus 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:17.000 on that person, and somehow in my brain I would 0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:19.240 actually zoom in on them because your eye kind of 0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:21.760 does weird things that you don't realize as you're taking 0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:25.280 in details. And I think that's all contributed to making 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:29.680 it feel just normal. And what then you can do 0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:32.920 when you have this thing of everything feels very real 0:23:33.000 --> 0:23:35.320 and everybody's under playing because also nobody on the show 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:40.000 is playing big. But if something big does happen, it 0:23:40.119 --> 0:23:42.199 is in a real world context, so you can get 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:44.320 away with it. So you know, there's some pretty absurd 0:23:44.400 --> 0:23:47.720 stuff that happened on the office, but you just go like, oh, 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:50.320 that's funny. You don't go if it had been shot 0:23:50.359 --> 0:23:52.520 in a standard movie way with like you zoom in 0:23:52.560 --> 0:23:54.520 and a wide lens you did this, and that you'd 0:23:54.520 --> 0:23:57.040 go like, no, that's dumb, you know, or that's too much, 0:23:57.040 --> 0:24:00.120 but in this real life context that makes it all 0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:02.840 feel real and and so um yeah, you know, but 0:24:02.880 --> 0:24:05.880 you guys were all very very appealing. Yes in our 0:24:05.920 --> 0:24:10.960 own specific way, yes exactly. You know. I've always said 0:24:10.960 --> 0:24:13.480 this about especially it's more about like three camera kind 0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:16.200 of stuff, but it really applies to the best TV shows, 0:24:16.320 --> 0:24:20.399 the most popular comedies ever, which is it's generally in 0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:22.800 one place. That's why cheers work so well, you go, oh, 0:24:22.800 --> 0:24:25.000 I'm gonna go visit my friends in this place that 0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:28.440 I feel very comfortable. And so that's what the office had. 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:30.639 And it's funny as the seasons went on, they were 0:24:30.640 --> 0:24:32.320 always trying to get out of the office more and 0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:35.040 I was always kind of like, let's not go too 0:24:35.119 --> 0:24:38.120 much because I love being in this place now. It's 0:24:38.160 --> 0:24:40.639 my happy place. So that you know, that's what you 0:24:40.680 --> 0:24:43.760 had going for you. But then with this new style, 0:24:44.080 --> 0:24:47.640 which the funny thing was at that time sitcoms were 0:24:47.680 --> 0:24:50.040 trying to break out of their three camera thing. And 0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:53.200 so if you watch there was occasionally watch a sitcom 0:24:53.200 --> 0:24:55.159 and they kind of put some shot in or they 0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:57.359 do something. But let's be tracking down the hall and 0:24:57.359 --> 0:25:00.320 you're like, wait, what's happening? You know this is not 0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:03.439 normal and it would distance you from it, but you 0:25:03.440 --> 0:25:05.560 guys have the ability to just have this freedom with 0:25:05.600 --> 0:25:30.240 the cameras. Right. Backing up slightly, you mentioned Diversity Day. Um, 0:25:30.280 --> 0:25:32.840 you know, I think that we've talked a lot about 0:25:33.160 --> 0:25:34.560 I don't know what you want to call them, but 0:25:35.160 --> 0:25:41.040 issue episodes. That sounds so like very special episode. That 0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:43.840 wasn't the intention, but you know, talking about really from 0:25:43.840 --> 0:25:47.159 our second episode and Diversity Day, beginning to talk about 0:25:47.440 --> 0:25:51.880 difficult social issues in a way that some would say 0:25:51.920 --> 0:25:54.480 hadn't been done on television since All in the Family, 0:25:54.600 --> 0:25:56.600 in terms of looking at race, but looking at it 0:25:56.640 --> 0:25:59.080 in a different way with a protagonist who was the 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:03.359 one kind of stirring the pot. Yeah, a lot of 0:26:03.359 --> 0:26:06.359 people have said it, and Steve himself said he wasn't 0:26:06.359 --> 0:26:10.320 a bad guy. It was it was just he wasn't 0:26:10.359 --> 0:26:13.040 woken off. Yeah, he's not savvy enough and he The 0:26:13.040 --> 0:26:15.320 great thing about Steve's character, you know, I also think 0:26:15.400 --> 0:26:18.240 Archie Bunker is like one of the greatest characters, possibly 0:26:18.280 --> 0:26:21.199 the greatest character I've ever been in comedy. But there 0:26:21.240 --> 0:26:24.560 are people who are just convinced they're right Also when 0:26:24.560 --> 0:26:26.879 they say something terrible, it's like, what what did I say? 0:26:26.960 --> 0:26:29.320 What did I say that's so terrible? It's that weird 0:26:29.400 --> 0:26:32.040 innocence of thinking get away with it that that really 0:26:32.080 --> 0:26:34.760 makes the difference. You know, there's no malice in that person. 0:26:35.160 --> 0:26:39.239 But you talked about unlikable leading men um, you know, 0:26:39.280 --> 0:26:41.440 being a very British thing. But it's funny like when 0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:44.320 you look at a television history and you bring up 0:26:44.400 --> 0:26:48.879 Archie Bunker again, another sort of unlikable leading man. Yeah, 0:26:49.080 --> 0:26:50.960 very much so. I mean, you know, that's one of 0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:53.760 the most challenging characters to be on TV. I think, 0:26:54.000 --> 0:26:56.080 you know, people try to replicate that so many times, 0:26:56.080 --> 0:26:59.400 and it just that was so specific to the time. Ironically, 0:26:59.400 --> 0:27:02.840 I almost like, I think almost we're even more divided now. 0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:04.320 I don't even think you think you can pull it 0:27:04.320 --> 0:27:07.520 off because everybody's so self defensive. But back then there 0:27:07.600 --> 0:27:11.840 was ability to even though everybody passions were high. You 0:27:11.920 --> 0:27:15.680 needed that that steam relief for whatever, to to get 0:27:15.720 --> 0:27:18.560 these ideas out there. And also, you know, surrounding that 0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:21.760 shows just brilliant because it's the wife who's just a saint, 0:27:22.240 --> 0:27:24.480 and then the overbearing son in law who's too far 0:27:24.560 --> 0:27:26.480 the other way, you know, and then the daughter is 0:27:26.520 --> 0:27:28.480 kind of caught in the middle. So if you kind 0:27:28.480 --> 0:27:33.400 of present a fair and balanced mixture of opinions, then 0:27:33.440 --> 0:27:34.760 you can have fun with it. And then if you 0:27:34.920 --> 0:27:38.320 again take the malice out of it, unless you need 0:27:38.400 --> 0:27:42.600 a villain, then everybody's just kind of misguided. Then it 0:27:42.680 --> 0:27:47.000 becomes about the appealing nous of the people playing those roles. 0:27:47.000 --> 0:27:48.840 And I don't mean looks or anything. I just mean 0:27:49.520 --> 0:27:52.359 do you inherently like them? And you you inherently like 0:27:52.520 --> 0:27:56.359 Steve because he is just he's so funny and also 0:27:56.520 --> 0:27:59.359 just you know, he thinks he's doing the doing the 0:27:59.480 --> 0:28:02.840 right thing, and you can't. It's hard for Americans at 0:28:02.880 --> 0:28:06.080 least to get mad at that. Right. Where do you 0:28:06.160 --> 0:28:09.439 think that he fits in Michael Scott sort of in 0:28:09.440 --> 0:28:14.240 the history of comedy leading man in television. I mean, honestly, 0:28:15.280 --> 0:28:18.359 it's a real close race between Carol O'Connor and Steve Carrell. 0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:22.320 For me, I've I've lamented this before, and whenever I 0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:25.399 say it, sometimes it turned the press remembers that this 0:28:25.400 --> 0:28:28.200 didn't happen, that Steve Carrell never won an Emmy, never 0:28:28.240 --> 0:28:32.760 wanted and it makes me mental and you know Alc Balden. 0:28:32.840 --> 0:28:34.720 I love him. He's the funniest guy in the world. 0:28:34.760 --> 0:28:37.680 He's he's great. But you know that was a showy 0:28:37.760 --> 0:28:40.640 part and Steve's part. I mean people would say it 0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:42.600 to me, you like, well, but he just shows up 0:28:42.600 --> 0:28:44.400 and he just it's crazy, and it's like, are you 0:28:44.520 --> 0:28:46.800 fucking kidding me? You know, first of all, if you 0:28:46.800 --> 0:28:48.440 know Steve, he's not crazy at all. He's one of 0:28:48.480 --> 0:28:50.560 the most even tempered, smart guys I've ever met in 0:28:50.600 --> 0:28:53.840 my life. But for comedy be good, it's gotta look easy. 0:28:53.880 --> 0:28:55.760 If it looks sweaty and it looks like people are 0:28:55.800 --> 0:28:58.320 trying too hard, it's terrible. But then when you do 0:28:58.440 --> 0:29:01.160 so great that you make it so real, people like, 0:29:01.160 --> 0:29:03.800 well you're not doing anything. So at some point you 0:29:03.840 --> 0:29:06.720 just go awards mean nothing and screw it, let's just 0:29:06.760 --> 0:29:08.720 throw it out. But the fact that there's a comedy 0:29:08.800 --> 0:29:11.520 Leading Man category and he can never win it is 0:29:12.000 --> 0:29:14.920 it's crazy. And I really think Academy, do you you like 0:29:15.000 --> 0:29:17.520 the President's Award or whatever where you give somebody who's 0:29:17.560 --> 0:29:20.800 been not taken care of give him that Emmy and 0:29:20.880 --> 0:29:25.520 should be like five ft high. Yeah? Yeah, Um. When 0:29:25.560 --> 0:29:29.760 I was talking to Rain, I said to him, the 0:29:29.880 --> 0:29:33.680 comedy duo of the two of them together, you reference 0:29:33.760 --> 0:29:38.560 the Halloween episode two. They're just so fine, They're just 0:29:38.680 --> 0:29:43.040 so funny, and there's just it's these two archetypal characters 0:29:43.040 --> 0:29:46.800 in the way that they fit together was just brilliant. Yeah, 0:29:46.800 --> 0:29:48.920 and there's not I mean, there's not really a parallel 0:29:48.960 --> 0:29:50.959 to them, because it's not Laurel and Hardy, you know, 0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:54.440 and it's not abbonic Ostello. Because of that exactly what 0:29:54.520 --> 0:29:58.200 you're saying. It's this weird they need each other, but 0:29:58.680 --> 0:30:03.800 Michael doesn't want white acceptance, and it's it's really I mean, 0:30:03.920 --> 0:30:06.880 but you know, such credit to Rain. I mean, what 0:30:07.000 --> 0:30:11.200 an amazing character he pulled in to be a character 0:30:11.360 --> 0:30:13.560 that could have been so over the top arch but 0:30:13.640 --> 0:30:16.360 there is a humanity in him because he's just that 0:30:16.520 --> 0:30:19.280 guy that we all know who's just like striving and 0:30:19.320 --> 0:30:22.240 wants it and wants it so much and tries to 0:30:22.320 --> 0:30:24.200 kind of throw everybody else out of the way, but 0:30:24.280 --> 0:30:27.840 he's still sensitive. And Yeah, it's really I mean, you know, 0:30:27.920 --> 0:30:31.360 in Rain, it's the greatest guy too well, and part 0:30:31.400 --> 0:30:34.240 of why the show is so popular. I think that 0:30:34.360 --> 0:30:39.760 Dwight shrewd, this character full of contradictions that don't make 0:30:39.800 --> 0:30:44.440 any like heavy metal, dungeon and drag it like all 0:30:44.520 --> 0:30:49.320 of these weird things. But they're so specific that that 0:30:49.480 --> 0:30:52.400 is actually what makes it universal that people like like 0:30:52.480 --> 0:30:55.200 see that it's a real character, a real person. Yeah, 0:30:55.280 --> 0:30:58.200 I mean, because characters are all specifics. You know, when 0:30:58.200 --> 0:30:59.880 you get in trouble, when you're writing something as you 0:31:00.040 --> 0:31:02.000 just kind of have this general kind of feeling of 0:31:02.080 --> 0:31:04.800 what your character does, and you know it's really going 0:31:04.840 --> 0:31:08.560 through that laos agree list of like specifics. What is 0:31:08.560 --> 0:31:09.920 their religion, what do they believe in? What are the 0:31:10.240 --> 0:31:12.640 are they afraid? You know? What's their favorite food? Those 0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:15.000 things make up who we are if you think about it. 0:31:15.000 --> 0:31:17.280 I mean, you know that that's It's like how many 0:31:17.320 --> 0:31:18.880 times you meet somebody you really like them, then you'll 0:31:18.880 --> 0:31:20.800 find out one thing and you're like, wait, what you know, 0:31:21.320 --> 0:31:23.120 either suddenly you don't like them because of it, or 0:31:23.160 --> 0:31:25.720 you feel really bad for them, or you know. So 0:31:26.200 --> 0:31:28.360 it is that that attention to detail, and that's a 0:31:28.400 --> 0:31:31.840 great thing about the television series is that you have 0:31:32.320 --> 0:31:35.240 week after week to keep establishing these things and to 0:31:35.280 --> 0:31:37.480 surprise people with you know, oh, I thought I knew 0:31:37.480 --> 0:31:39.200 exactly who that person was, and you go like, oh 0:31:39.280 --> 0:31:42.280 you think, you know, check this out. And that's what's 0:31:42.280 --> 0:31:44.640 brilliant about it. I've gone to movies because I get 0:31:44.640 --> 0:31:46.560 more of a stomach gig thinking about having to do 0:31:46.560 --> 0:31:49.240 stuff week after week, because I'm a little more of 0:31:49.280 --> 0:31:53.200 a singular task person. So that's why I when a 0:31:53.320 --> 0:31:57.320 show is consistently great week after week, year after year, 0:31:57.760 --> 0:31:59.719 it's like a magic trick or something, and you know, 0:31:59.760 --> 0:32:02.960 in and just you know, hats off to those those writers. 0:32:03.320 --> 0:32:06.160 I remember just standing watching them from the other side 0:32:06.200 --> 0:32:08.320 of the room going like that is the most brilliant 0:32:08.400 --> 0:32:11.600 group of writers. Like you'd be hard pressed to put 0:32:11.640 --> 0:32:15.240 together a gang like that again, you know, and and 0:32:15.640 --> 0:32:17.920 everything they came up with was brilliant. And I would 0:32:17.960 --> 0:32:20.120 just sit in that writer's room and just going, wow, 0:32:20.240 --> 0:32:22.400 you know, it's marvel. You know, it's the case. I 0:32:22.440 --> 0:32:24.440 try to pitch a joke and they kind to look 0:32:24.480 --> 0:32:27.120 at me like okay, you know, like suddenly dad in 0:32:27.160 --> 0:32:29.720 the room like pitching some shitty, old hackey joke and 0:32:29.720 --> 0:32:35.640 they're like, okay, well I heard um, as it's been 0:32:35.720 --> 0:32:38.240 explained to me. Like in a writer's room, you really 0:32:38.240 --> 0:32:41.560 have the people who start and they're really good at story, 0:32:41.960 --> 0:32:44.800 and then you know they're the senior there. Then you 0:32:44.920 --> 0:32:47.920 hire in the joke people, and then eventually the story 0:32:47.960 --> 0:32:50.920 people leave, and then you just have the joke people 0:32:51.000 --> 0:32:53.120 kind of running the ship, but they're not as good 0:32:53.160 --> 0:32:56.360 as story. But I mean, when you think of a 0:32:56.480 --> 0:32:59.920 Gen Silata and Paul Lieberstein and Mike Shure and Mindy 0:33:00.240 --> 0:33:04.600 and Gene and mend and b J and yeah, uh no, 0:33:05.040 --> 0:33:07.920 I mean that that's really that's smart. I never thought 0:33:08.120 --> 0:33:10.720 about it that way, but it's completely true. People didn't 0:33:10.720 --> 0:33:13.360 have a specific thing they did that they were known for, 0:33:13.560 --> 0:33:17.080 and I think that is really smart because then everybody 0:33:17.080 --> 0:33:21.320 brought a depth of story and funny to everything they 0:33:21.320 --> 0:33:23.480 were pitching, you know, and again sitting around that table 0:33:23.520 --> 0:33:25.760 and hearing the pitches, you know, when they were going 0:33:25.760 --> 0:33:28.480 through and punching up a script or whatever. That's why 0:33:28.520 --> 0:33:31.200 when I would pitch like a joke, it just like 0:33:31.440 --> 0:33:33.920 hit like a lead balloon. I'm just pitching like a 0:33:33.960 --> 0:33:36.520 funny word or a funny word play. It's like, oh god, 0:33:36.720 --> 0:33:38.280 but I learned so much on that, Like, you know, 0:33:38.280 --> 0:33:39.960 it came kind of came out of that whole experience 0:33:40.000 --> 0:33:42.880 of my years. They're going like, oh, you know, behavioral comedy, 0:33:42.880 --> 0:33:44.080 this is how it works. It was weird. That's what 0:33:44.080 --> 0:33:45.280 we used to do on freaks and gigs. But I 0:33:45.280 --> 0:33:47.560 would get in this setting of a half hour thing 0:33:47.560 --> 0:33:50.360 go like, oh, you gotta be more jokey and and 0:33:50.400 --> 0:34:13.400 so you know, they what a brilliant group. Many people 0:34:13.480 --> 0:34:20.560 believe the greatest episode of the Office is Dinner Party, Uh, 0:34:20.680 --> 0:34:23.480 that you directed and you were not supposed to direct it. 0:34:23.840 --> 0:34:25.800 Somebody else is supposed to direct it. And then the 0:34:25.840 --> 0:34:28.480 writer's strike happened. But I remember I had been given 0:34:28.520 --> 0:34:32.080 the script to Survivor Man, I think was the one, 0:34:32.400 --> 0:34:34.360 and I remember going like, oh, I like the script, 0:34:34.440 --> 0:34:36.799 Oh my god, can I please have dinner Party? And 0:34:36.800 --> 0:34:38.640 it's like, well, it's already been promised that somebody else. 0:34:38.680 --> 0:34:40.879 It's like oh no, So I mean I've literally try 0:34:40.920 --> 0:34:43.480 to figure out like how I could subvert it or whatever. 0:34:44.040 --> 0:34:46.960 And then the writer's strike dropped into our laps in 0:34:46.960 --> 0:34:49.080 a horrible way, and that was what a terrible time 0:34:49.120 --> 0:34:51.360 that was. But it just happened to work out that 0:34:51.440 --> 0:34:54.160 when it came back, it was available for me to 0:34:54.200 --> 0:34:57.520 do because I think he was busy, and um, it 0:34:57.600 --> 0:34:59.160 was one of those things you just read and go like, 0:34:59.160 --> 0:35:01.160 oh my god, this is the funniest thing I've ever read. 0:35:01.200 --> 0:35:03.640 But it's also what I love because it's so cringe e. 0:35:03.760 --> 0:35:06.799 This is just going to be like excruciating, but that's 0:35:06.840 --> 0:35:10.759 my favorite kind of comedy. But if you remember, I 0:35:10.800 --> 0:35:13.640 think it was probably when it aired, probably our most 0:35:13.680 --> 0:35:16.759 hated episode. I mean, people did not like it because 0:35:16.800 --> 0:35:20.480 it made them so uncomfortable, and I remember being very 0:35:20.520 --> 0:35:23.080 surprised by that. But the feedback was coming out, you know, 0:35:23.239 --> 0:35:25.919 on the website, and we were just getting really bad 0:35:25.960 --> 0:35:28.480 feedback from it. So I'm so happy that now it 0:35:28.560 --> 0:35:31.880 sorted itself out and it really taught me something I 0:35:31.920 --> 0:35:34.479 didn't realize before that, which is the hardest part about 0:35:34.560 --> 0:35:36.600 just you know, when you have a movie out or anything, 0:35:36.640 --> 0:35:38.480 if you have any kind of track record, people know 0:35:38.520 --> 0:35:40.279 what you do, you've got a voice, or they're used 0:35:40.320 --> 0:35:44.200 to stuff that you've done. That the biggest impediment to 0:35:44.239 --> 0:35:47.960 people enjoying something is the fact that it exists, and 0:35:48.000 --> 0:35:50.879 they have to get used to it existing, and so 0:35:51.320 --> 0:35:53.320 you know, they they're used to the feel of the office, 0:35:53.320 --> 0:35:55.279 which is fun and definitely has cringe e stuff in it. 0:35:55.360 --> 0:35:57.799 But so then when this thing comes up and you're like, 0:35:58.000 --> 0:36:00.359 we're just gonna dangle you in the wind and make 0:36:00.440 --> 0:36:03.960 you feel so uncomfortable that they're like, well, I can't, 0:36:04.280 --> 0:36:07.200 how dare you do this to me? But then when 0:36:07.239 --> 0:36:09.279 they watched and then they've gotten that out of their 0:36:09.280 --> 0:36:11.040 head and now they know it exists and they go 0:36:11.080 --> 0:36:12.799 back and watch it again, then you go like, oh 0:36:12.840 --> 0:36:14.479 my god, this is the funniest thing I've ever seen. 0:36:14.960 --> 0:36:20.440 And that episode is so obviously driven by that cast, 0:36:20.800 --> 0:36:23.600 and um, how funny they are, and this is one 0:36:23.640 --> 0:36:26.320 time we're putting them in a setting outside of the office. 0:36:26.880 --> 0:36:29.320 Worked so great because it was a setting that meant 0:36:29.440 --> 0:36:32.160 so much to one person. I mean, I think I 0:36:32.360 --> 0:36:34.560 still I don't think I ever laugh as hard as 0:36:34.880 --> 0:36:37.160 when we did the thing of Michael giving the tour 0:36:37.239 --> 0:36:39.879 of that living room with that little TV and then 0:36:39.920 --> 0:36:43.200 the then the shitty table, and it just it was 0:36:43.280 --> 0:36:46.279 that was just such a team effort between Steve as 0:36:46.320 --> 0:36:49.760 a performer, in between Randall and I and Matt figuring 0:36:49.760 --> 0:36:51.080 out like you think you're on a big TV and 0:36:51.080 --> 0:36:52.400 you pull out in this tiny thing, and then how 0:36:52.440 --> 0:36:55.279 do we whip over to that hitty table. Oh my god, 0:36:55.320 --> 0:36:57.279 it's just so funny. But the thing I take away 0:36:57.280 --> 0:37:00.560 most from that episode was, and again the genius of 0:37:00.560 --> 0:37:04.960 Steve Correll, the big breakdown they have about having a baby. 0:37:05.160 --> 0:37:08.280 You know, it happens at the door, and it got 0:37:08.640 --> 0:37:11.440 very dramatic, and you know, it's really like I was like, 0:37:11.440 --> 0:37:13.960 oh my god, like Steve's really killing this and it's 0:37:14.000 --> 0:37:17.440 so dramatic. But then we all kind of went, Okay, 0:37:17.600 --> 0:37:19.520 it's gotta be funny. So I just remember going to 0:37:19.560 --> 0:37:22.520 Steve going like, it's so good, what can you do 0:37:22.600 --> 0:37:24.759 to just kind of make it funny? And that's when 0:37:24.760 --> 0:37:26.799 he did the whole snip snap, snip snap that thing. 0:37:26.960 --> 0:37:29.319 Do you know how many times v sector he has 0:37:29.360 --> 0:37:31.880 in that just like falling apart, And then they be 0:37:32.200 --> 0:37:36.160 punching in on Krazinski, who just found the funniest moment 0:37:36.200 --> 0:37:40.120 to when he reveals the thing and just John it 0:37:40.200 --> 0:37:42.280 just takes that little look to the camera and Randall 0:37:42.280 --> 0:37:44.319 crashes in on him and it's the funniest. I think 0:37:44.360 --> 0:37:47.280 that's possibly the funniest reaction shot in the whole history 0:37:47.760 --> 0:37:51.360 of the Office. Um oh, I'm just I'm so proud 0:37:51.360 --> 0:37:53.320 of that episode. And and it was it was just 0:37:53.360 --> 0:37:55.400 so fun to put together. It was also fun just 0:37:55.480 --> 0:37:57.440 to go in and figure out because I I was 0:37:57.480 --> 0:37:59.799 the first person to shooting Michael's condo when he bought it, 0:38:00.200 --> 0:38:02.799 So then going in and going like what did Jan 0:38:02.920 --> 0:38:05.720 do to this place? And that was just a blast 0:38:05.760 --> 0:38:08.680 that they just let us completely, you know, go wild 0:38:08.840 --> 0:38:12.560 with kimonos on the wall and in the big the 0:38:12.600 --> 0:38:15.640 big Andy warhol of Jan, which we never we never 0:38:15.760 --> 0:38:18.560 feature it just there and you go like, oh my god, yeah, 0:38:18.280 --> 0:38:24.040 yeah exactly. Um So in season five, you came on 0:38:24.640 --> 0:38:27.360 as a co executive producer, right, and that was really 0:38:27.440 --> 0:38:30.479 about I mean, it came out a function of well, one, 0:38:30.760 --> 0:38:33.359 how great you are and two that Greg was sort 0:38:33.400 --> 0:38:37.680 of stepping away and beginning to go work on Yeah, yeah, 0:38:37.760 --> 0:38:41.719 how why did you decide to do that? I loved 0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:44.879 you guys so much? And it was really that when 0:38:45.040 --> 0:38:47.640 the opportunity was presented to me, I remember thinking like, 0:38:47.680 --> 0:38:50.680 this is gonna be like the greatest schooling I've ever had, 0:38:50.800 --> 0:38:52.120 you know, And that was I said. One of the 0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:53.759 things was I want to be I'd like to be 0:38:53.800 --> 0:38:57.160 in the writer's room too, which they definitely wanted. Um, 0:38:57.200 --> 0:38:59.400 you know, it allowed me to go into helpful I was, 0:38:59.480 --> 0:39:02.760 but I was in there. Um yeah, I just really 0:39:02.800 --> 0:39:05.240 wanted to be more and more part of that show. 0:39:06.080 --> 0:39:08.640 I knew that how great it was, and obviously by 0:39:08.640 --> 0:39:11.000 that point it was a hit too. But you know, 0:39:11.200 --> 0:39:14.200 I couldn't get movies made, which was all I really 0:39:14.239 --> 0:39:16.200 wanted to do. But since I couldn't do that, I 0:39:16.239 --> 0:39:20.959 was like, I'm sitting with this amazing gift. I really 0:39:21.000 --> 0:39:22.640 want to just be a part of it. And and 0:39:23.000 --> 0:39:24.520 you know what what happened with you know, when Gregg 0:39:24.560 --> 0:39:26.399 brought me on too, just like a lot of people 0:39:26.440 --> 0:39:28.719 had in their contracts that they were going to get 0:39:28.760 --> 0:39:31.040 to direct an episode, and so he really wanted to 0:39:31.080 --> 0:39:33.759 be there to help people. And I love that, you know. 0:39:33.760 --> 0:39:35.560 It was so I got to you know, be with 0:39:35.600 --> 0:39:37.520 Steve Carell when he directed his first episode, and I 0:39:37.520 --> 0:39:40.080 also got to be with you know, you know, some 0:39:40.200 --> 0:39:42.120 of our editors when they were doing it too, and 0:39:42.160 --> 0:39:43.560 it was it was fun, and I also got to 0:39:43.560 --> 0:39:45.439 spend more and more time on the set, which I love. 0:39:45.920 --> 0:39:49.279 Like I will fully admit, the one thing that I'm 0:39:49.320 --> 0:39:53.000 really sad about is I was not allowed to direct 0:39:53.280 --> 0:39:58.600 the Super Bowl episode because I think the network wasn't 0:39:59.200 --> 0:40:05.400 thrilled with the Christmas episode, the Meredith's um Moroccan Christmas. Yeah, exactly. 0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:07.200 I think that they had some issues. So I remember 0:40:07.800 --> 0:40:10.080 being kind of penalized because I was kind of like, well, 0:40:10.120 --> 0:40:12.440 of course I'm the in house director, I get to 0:40:12.480 --> 0:40:15.720 do the hour long one, and then you know, I didn't, 0:40:15.760 --> 0:40:18.719 and I remember just being very upset, and then it 0:40:18.760 --> 0:40:23.360 won the Emmy for the Directors. But he did a 0:40:23.360 --> 0:40:28.280 great job, I mean, amazing job. Um you also directed 0:40:28.719 --> 0:40:33.400 um Niagara. Um, how how did you find out ultimately 0:40:33.560 --> 0:40:35.960 how that the wedding actually played out with the other 0:40:36.000 --> 0:40:39.080 wedding in Niagara, etcetera. Well, I mean it was you know, 0:40:39.160 --> 0:40:41.279 first I was so excited to get to do that one, 0:40:41.320 --> 0:40:42.880 and you know, the first time we ever think we 0:40:42.920 --> 0:40:45.080 ever went on location to do anything on the show, 0:40:45.760 --> 0:40:48.279 even though all the stuff we shot at you know 0:40:48.440 --> 0:40:50.759 that's supposed to be there was actually in uh the 0:40:50.800 --> 0:40:56.640 smokehouse right right block away from my house. My actual um, 0:40:56.800 --> 0:40:59.160 you know, I mean one of the greatest honors for 0:40:59.239 --> 0:41:02.040 me was also getting to do the Proposal, which which 0:41:02.120 --> 0:41:04.160 was the most expensive shot we ever did in the 0:41:04.160 --> 0:41:07.280 show's history. That was the very first episode of that 0:41:07.280 --> 0:41:10.960 that season, and we basically blew the entire budget for 0:41:11.000 --> 0:41:13.080 the rest of the season on that shot, which costs 0:41:13.120 --> 0:41:15.160 I mean like a half a million dollars because it 0:41:15.239 --> 0:41:18.759 filled a CG and and all this anyway, Um, but 0:41:18.800 --> 0:41:21.080 so yes, when we got to the wedding, it was 0:41:21.960 --> 0:41:24.759 very emotional. It was weird because we're gonna shoot on this, 0:41:24.880 --> 0:41:26.239 you know, the Lady of the Mist or made of 0:41:26.280 --> 0:41:29.520 the Mist thing, So that just brought so many logistical 0:41:29.600 --> 0:41:31.680 things that you're kind of like, it was hard to 0:41:31.719 --> 0:41:34.279 kind of invest in the emotion of it at first 0:41:34.320 --> 0:41:36.160 because I was so worried, like, are we gonna get soaked? 0:41:36.160 --> 0:41:38.239 Are we gonna you know, it's a camera gonna screw up. 0:41:38.400 --> 0:41:41.040 But it wasn't until we got in the editing room. 0:41:41.040 --> 0:41:42.920 It was Claire, you know, Claire edited, and I was 0:41:42.920 --> 0:41:45.880 there with her when we decided we were going to 0:41:45.960 --> 0:41:50.239 intermix the dance number with the wedding, and we just 0:41:50.280 --> 0:41:52.359 burst into tears. I mean, I just got I still 0:41:52.400 --> 0:41:56.759 get I get so emotional watching that because it's so beautiful, 0:41:56.800 --> 0:41:58.800 the way that it goes back and forth between the two. 0:41:59.480 --> 0:42:02.640 But it's all so I'm jumping all around, but there 0:42:02.680 --> 0:42:04.839 was so many things in my head when we put 0:42:04.920 --> 0:42:08.319 that episode together, that dance number, which came out of 0:42:08.320 --> 0:42:10.200 the blue. I mean, do you know the whole backstory 0:42:10.239 --> 0:42:12.799 on you know what was originally Originally Greg had this 0:42:12.880 --> 0:42:15.359 insane idea that was hilarious that the Dwight was gonna 0:42:15.480 --> 0:42:18.960 d ride a horse over the Niagara false and we 0:42:19.000 --> 0:42:20.640 were just like, I don't know, I don't we want 0:42:20.640 --> 0:42:24.239 to kill a horse on Pam and Jim's wedding. And 0:42:24.320 --> 0:42:26.200 he kind of fought for it and fought for it 0:42:26.239 --> 0:42:29.400 and then finally gave in. And so it was a 0:42:29.520 --> 0:42:31.719 very last minute thing. We had like like a day 0:42:31.800 --> 0:42:35.520 or two, and that wedding video was all over the internet. 0:42:35.920 --> 0:42:38.560 It was kind of the perfect setup. And then when 0:42:38.600 --> 0:42:40.520 we were shooting in that church all day, I mean, 0:42:40.520 --> 0:42:43.120 it was so much to shoot that we were running 0:42:43.120 --> 0:42:44.719 out of time and I was like, literally had like 0:42:44.760 --> 0:42:46.759 a half hour left. I was like, I'm not, I 0:42:46.760 --> 0:42:48.799 don't have time to get this dance number. So like 0:42:49.400 --> 0:42:51.360 we're gonna be like maybe two takes at it, and 0:42:51.400 --> 0:42:54.240 the first time you guys did it, it was gold, 0:42:54.360 --> 0:42:56.360 and it's just like that didn't dropped the mic. We 0:42:56.400 --> 0:42:57.640 did it one more time but we didn't need it 0:42:57.640 --> 0:43:00.080 because the second time, but it was really having all 0:43:00.080 --> 0:43:02.600 those elements to work with that it just gave us 0:43:03.000 --> 0:43:07.480 enough cards to really juffle A beautiful day. Yeah. By 0:43:07.520 --> 0:43:09.200 the way, that I don't know if you remember this. 0:43:09.360 --> 0:43:13.440 The people walking behind Jim and Pam onto the Maid 0:43:13.480 --> 0:43:17.600 of the mist my parents. Oh that's right, who were vacationing. 0:43:17.600 --> 0:43:20.560 And I I do remember that. I do remember that there. 0:43:20.920 --> 0:43:22.719 Oh my god, we'll see. And I think you had 0:43:22.760 --> 0:43:27.120 met them on Company Picnic the hundredth episode. They had 0:43:27.239 --> 0:43:29.080 come there and I think you had actually remember that. 0:43:29.120 --> 0:43:31.440 I didn't direct that one, but I was there supervising. Yes, 0:43:31.840 --> 0:43:35.640 you're gonna parents. Um. One other question I have to ask, 0:43:35.680 --> 0:43:39.719 because you just brought it up. You directed the proposal episode. Um. 0:43:40.040 --> 0:43:42.560 Sound or no sound? Oh, I was very I was 0:43:42.600 --> 0:43:45.920 a no sound guy, very much. So yeah. Oh wait, no, no, no, no, 0:43:46.000 --> 0:43:48.040 I was a sound guy. Oh my god. No, that 0:43:48.680 --> 0:43:52.200 was That was the most contentious moment we all ever had. No. 0:43:52.320 --> 0:43:56.480 I was very nervous about it was so emotionally with 0:43:56.640 --> 0:43:59.239 the sound. And I'm glad we did it because I 0:43:59.239 --> 0:44:01.680 think it made you know, flash forward to Michael's last 0:44:01.680 --> 0:44:03.759 episode much more powerful if we had done that gag 0:44:03.800 --> 0:44:06.480 a couple of times, but we did. Their performance was 0:44:06.520 --> 0:44:08.200 so good and hearing her and going like oh my 0:44:08.239 --> 0:44:11.239 god and all that. It just we're already dealing with 0:44:11.320 --> 0:44:14.400 so much, with all the across the you know, the 0:44:14.480 --> 0:44:16.920 highway and zooming in all these cars and all that that. 0:44:17.000 --> 0:44:20.520 I just yeah, I remember fighting really really hard for that, 0:44:20.600 --> 0:44:23.200 and I think Greg was always kind of on the 0:44:23.200 --> 0:44:25.839 fence of whether we should have done it. Um talk 0:44:25.880 --> 0:44:29.240 about one word, literally, Hey, guy who fixes the cars 0:44:29.280 --> 0:44:30.880 for the show, come on in. What do you think 0:44:32.160 --> 0:44:34.200 Someone told the story that he brought in a security 0:44:34.200 --> 0:44:36.440 guard and came in to watch it. He was like, 0:44:36.520 --> 0:44:39.799 he was like, who are these guys talking? Like he 0:44:39.840 --> 0:44:43.000 had no idea, Like I've never watched the show. It 0:44:43.080 --> 0:44:48.440 was just like, yes, Um. You also directed Steve Carrell's 0:44:48.520 --> 0:44:54.120 last episode, Goodbye Michael. What do you remember about shooting that? Well, 0:44:54.360 --> 0:44:56.759 the biggest thing I remember, first of all, it was 0:44:56.840 --> 0:45:00.360 just so emotional, But that was what was interesting about it. 0:45:00.560 --> 0:45:02.839 You probably remember this too. Every time we were going 0:45:02.840 --> 0:45:06.000 into a scene, especially towards the second half of the week, 0:45:06.640 --> 0:45:09.200 it was that feeling of like this is our last 0:45:09.200 --> 0:45:13.240 scene with with Steve this group actors, and we would 0:45:13.239 --> 0:45:15.040 do the first few takes and it would the would 0:45:15.040 --> 0:45:17.960 be a real sadness about it, and I had to 0:45:18.000 --> 0:45:22.200 constantly go like, remember, we love Steve, we don't necessarily 0:45:22.239 --> 0:45:26.440 like Michael, you know, and it would change the dynamic. 0:45:26.520 --> 0:45:29.239 But I completely got it because I was so emotional too. 0:45:29.280 --> 0:45:31.319 I would kind of falling into that and then going like, wait, 0:45:31.360 --> 0:45:34.600 this can't be everybody's weeping because it's not going to 0:45:34.680 --> 0:45:36.960 track with the whole rest of the show. And that 0:45:37.320 --> 0:45:43.360 also made me very sad for Michael Scott, like they 0:45:43.400 --> 0:45:45.279 like him, but they don't love him, you know what 0:45:45.320 --> 0:45:47.680 I mean. But that's very real. You know. You know 0:45:47.680 --> 0:45:49.480 how many times you've got people you work with other 0:45:49.520 --> 0:45:51.759 than you go, oh I'll miss them. You're not like, 0:45:51.760 --> 0:45:54.200 oh my god, I can't live without, you know, the boss, 0:45:54.280 --> 0:45:56.319 or I can't live with that that manager, you know. 0:45:57.360 --> 0:46:01.560 But that was really really hard because everybody wanted to 0:46:01.560 --> 0:46:04.600 break down. Um. I also remember, and I have a picture. 0:46:04.600 --> 0:46:06.960 I've got to find it somewhere. I when we were 0:46:07.560 --> 0:46:11.040 the last day and we're shooting something, I looked over 0:46:11.080 --> 0:46:13.040 and Greg, you know that that the couch when you 0:46:13.120 --> 0:46:15.600 come in the front door there's a couch next to reception. 0:46:16.120 --> 0:46:19.279 I looked and Greg was just literally laying flat out, 0:46:19.400 --> 0:46:21.719 face down on the couch, just with this kind of 0:46:21.760 --> 0:46:25.000 his hands under his head, and it just some everything 0:46:25.080 --> 0:46:28.040 up of just like, we can't believe Steve is going, 0:46:28.360 --> 0:46:32.680 we can't imagine life without Steve Carrell on the set. Um, 0:46:32.719 --> 0:46:35.880 it was tough. Um. The weird thing for me was 0:46:35.920 --> 0:46:39.600 that we shot the very last thing, probably three days 0:46:39.640 --> 0:46:41.319 before the end of the episode, which was the thing 0:46:41.360 --> 0:46:45.560 at the airport with Jenna and Steve, and that got 0:46:45.600 --> 0:46:48.040 me more than I kind of thought. I mean, the 0:46:48.120 --> 0:46:49.920 last day got me, but I was so on task 0:46:50.840 --> 0:46:52.600 doing that airport scene. That was when I was just like, 0:46:52.960 --> 0:46:54.920 you know, and so it takes off the mic and 0:46:54.960 --> 0:46:56.840 just you know, I'm actually getting choked up when I 0:46:56.840 --> 0:46:59.279 talked about it, just seeing them, yeah, Herry going off 0:46:59.280 --> 0:47:00.759 and you don't know what they say, and just her 0:47:00.840 --> 0:47:04.920 hugging him, and it was just it was really it 0:47:05.000 --> 0:47:08.680 was really something. Um, but it really landed for me 0:47:08.880 --> 0:47:14.000 just what the show was and just you felt like 0:47:14.000 --> 0:47:17.000 you were kind of part of history in that moment, 0:47:17.000 --> 0:47:20.000 and I I loved everybody, but I remember saying like 0:47:20.040 --> 0:47:22.400 I'm now I'm not going to direct any more episodes 0:47:22.440 --> 0:47:25.040 because and I love all the episodes after Steve laugh. 0:47:25.200 --> 0:47:27.480 But to me, it's just like that was the group. 0:47:27.600 --> 0:47:30.800 You know. I almost felt like I almost had to 0:47:30.880 --> 0:47:33.240 leave with Michael Scott in a weird not that anybody 0:47:33.239 --> 0:47:35.920 could care, but it was just it. It put us 0:47:35.920 --> 0:47:39.719 such a completion to everything for me that that was 0:47:39.800 --> 0:47:44.120 kind of like that was it? Weirdly, yeah, because you 0:47:44.160 --> 0:47:46.239 didn't come back and direct after No, and I didn't. 0:47:46.280 --> 0:47:48.000 It was not any reason like how dare you? It 0:47:48.120 --> 0:47:50.680 just kind of it was just this really weird natural 0:47:50.760 --> 0:47:54.920 feeling of like, oh there's something, it's over. We're all 0:47:55.280 --> 0:47:56.560 we're all we're all going. I don't know, I don't know, 0:47:56.600 --> 0:47:57.959 I quite know how to say it. It It just felt 0:47:57.960 --> 0:48:00.799 like there was closure for me when that happened. Yeah, 0:48:01.160 --> 0:48:02.960 that said, I wish I kind of kind of wish 0:48:02.960 --> 0:48:04.520 I would have done some of them after because I 0:48:04.560 --> 0:48:07.520 missed you guys so much. I'll tell you one interesting 0:48:07.560 --> 0:48:10.359 thing about about that episode, when she goes to see 0:48:10.400 --> 0:48:14.440 the King's speech. We Bridesmaids it was going to come out, 0:48:14.600 --> 0:48:16.399 but it was coming out in a few months, and 0:48:16.800 --> 0:48:19.239 we almost put Bridesmaids up on the Marquee, but we 0:48:19.280 --> 0:48:22.839 all decided, well, what if a bombs so, so we 0:48:22.880 --> 0:48:27.560 didn't do it. Really yeah, yeah, that's so funny. So 0:48:27.640 --> 0:48:33.359 she almost snuck in to see bridesmace Um well, and 0:48:33.480 --> 0:48:38.799 obviously Bridesmaids was huge and brought Ellie to a whole 0:48:38.840 --> 0:48:42.200 new level. And really then from changing the face of 0:48:42.320 --> 0:48:48.560 television comedy, you literally changed the gender of no of 0:48:48.600 --> 0:48:51.799 American movie comedy with that movie as well. I mean 0:48:51.840 --> 0:48:54.759 that was groundbreaking in its own way right now. I 0:48:54.760 --> 0:48:56.320 mean it was it was what I had always wanted 0:48:56.360 --> 0:48:59.680 to do. I I love, you know, female lead comedy, 0:48:59.800 --> 0:49:02.200 and you know, I would just for years, after Freaks 0:49:02.200 --> 0:49:04.960 and Geeks and before it even pitch ideas that were 0:49:05.000 --> 0:49:07.640 female centric, and it just you know, oh, you can't 0:49:07.680 --> 0:49:10.120 do that, you know. Okay, I guess they know more 0:49:10.160 --> 0:49:11.960 than I do about in show biz and ifinally go like, 0:49:11.960 --> 0:49:13.600 well wait, why can't you you know? But it was 0:49:13.640 --> 0:49:17.480 really you know, Judd doing Knocked Up and saying to Kristen, 0:49:17.520 --> 0:49:19.520 you're great, write your own script, and then they came 0:49:19.560 --> 0:49:21.080 up with that that idea because I was at that 0:49:21.120 --> 0:49:24.120 table read back in two thousand seven when it was 0:49:24.200 --> 0:49:27.480 just you know, untitled wedding movie and uh, you know, 0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:29.799 and then three years later we actually got to do 0:49:29.840 --> 0:49:34.600 it right well the final um very quickly. What do 0:49:34.640 --> 0:49:38.960 you feel like the legacy of the show is gosh, 0:49:39.000 --> 0:49:45.400 you know, it's a show that you just want to 0:49:45.440 --> 0:49:47.200 watch over and over again. I mean there's a few 0:49:47.200 --> 0:49:51.600 shows like that in my life. Taxi was always that way. Um, 0:49:51.640 --> 0:49:53.960 all in the Family is always that way. But the 0:49:54.040 --> 0:49:57.920 Office is always gonna be that because it's just comfort food, 0:49:58.320 --> 0:50:01.680 you know, and it's a very it's so funny, but 0:50:01.719 --> 0:50:06.000 it's so relaxing to sit with these people. The tone 0:50:06.040 --> 0:50:07.919 of the show is very relaxed. I love the fact 0:50:07.920 --> 0:50:10.520 that we didn't have any score, no music on the show. 0:50:11.000 --> 0:50:12.799 You know, our sound mixes always about like where do 0:50:12.840 --> 0:50:15.520 we put the phone ringing? Like we're just always placing 0:50:15.520 --> 0:50:18.880 phones ringing in the background and it just becomes this 0:50:19.040 --> 0:50:25.239 really low key, relaxing, happy place that you can go to. 0:50:25.600 --> 0:50:29.799 And every episode there's something several things in it you're like, 0:50:29.800 --> 0:50:31.120 oh my god, this is my favorite thing. Is my 0:50:31.120 --> 0:50:33.480 favorite thing? You know, there's always you know, money part 0:50:33.760 --> 0:50:35.840 pytheon the Holy Grails one of my favorite movies, because 0:50:35.880 --> 0:50:37.759 every scene that comes up, you're like, oh wait, this 0:50:37.800 --> 0:50:39.680 is my favorite scene. Oh wait, this is my favorite thing, right, 0:50:39.719 --> 0:50:42.200 And that's what this show is, everything that comes up 0:50:42.239 --> 0:50:44.200 because you go, like, you love these characters and you 0:50:44.239 --> 0:50:46.680 remember these moments and you can watch them over and 0:50:46.719 --> 0:50:48.640 over again because they're not sweaty and they're not trying 0:50:48.640 --> 0:50:51.000 too hard, and they're not joke joke, joke, They're just 0:50:51.560 --> 0:50:56.279 behavioral and beautiful and relatable, not intimidating, and it just 0:50:56.320 --> 0:50:58.520 makes you feel good about your life, and it makes 0:50:58.560 --> 0:51:00.600 you feel good about other people, you know, it really 0:51:00.640 --> 0:51:03.359 makes you so like, this makes you tolerant of other 0:51:03.400 --> 0:51:05.440 people in a weird way because you're watching such a 0:51:05.960 --> 0:51:09.719 such different group of folks that have no reason to 0:51:09.719 --> 0:51:12.200 be together other than the fact that they are trapped 0:51:12.239 --> 0:51:15.960 within this building in this situation much like school. You know, 0:51:16.120 --> 0:51:17.600 the only reason you're there because you all live in 0:51:17.600 --> 0:51:21.080 the same area and that's why you're there. You don't 0:51:21.160 --> 0:51:24.400 choose to be there, and so there's just something very 0:51:24.719 --> 0:51:27.319 lovely about that. And I think that you know, people 0:51:27.360 --> 0:51:29.200 will be watching the show for you know, as long 0:51:29.239 --> 0:51:34.680 as the planet exists. Well, Paul, you're I mean, seriously, 0:51:34.719 --> 0:51:37.960 I know this sounds so crazy, but you really are 0:51:38.560 --> 0:51:43.000 one of the greatest comedic geniuses that I have ever met. 0:51:43.080 --> 0:51:45.960 Your contribution not only on this show, but in all 0:51:46.040 --> 0:51:48.879 the work that you've done is such high quality. You're 0:51:48.920 --> 0:51:53.239 such a good caring person as well, so you're as 0:51:53.320 --> 0:51:56.560 smart as you are kind. So thank you one, thank 0:51:56.600 --> 0:52:00.000 you coming in and sitting down with me and um 0:52:00.040 --> 0:52:03.719 it's always always my pleasure to see you and YouTube. Brian, 0:52:03.719 --> 0:52:08.160 You're the greatest. Remember where we first met Arrested Development exactly, 0:52:08.600 --> 0:52:10.520 you were so funny and then Mitch wouldn't let you 0:52:10.560 --> 0:52:15.839 do your bit because you literally like like really lecherous guy, 0:52:15.880 --> 0:52:18.239 and so I was felt bad. So when I finally 0:52:18.280 --> 0:52:20.160 got to work with you again on The Office, was like, 0:52:20.200 --> 0:52:25.440 oh yeah, And let me just say also, everything you've 0:52:25.480 --> 0:52:28.520 done is so brilliant. I still laugh every time I 0:52:28.560 --> 0:52:33.239 think of Michael's a genius. That makes me laugh so hard. 0:52:33.280 --> 0:52:35.880 From that episode that's one of our most undersung episodes 0:52:35.920 --> 0:52:38.879 to the Surplus. So anyway, I can't stop talking about 0:52:38.880 --> 0:52:40.560 the Office. I'm going to get out of here, right, 0:52:40.719 --> 0:52:57.480 Thank you. Thanks all right, folks, That is it for today. 0:52:57.719 --> 0:53:01.000 Thank you so much to Paul for join me. I 0:53:01.040 --> 0:53:04.000 know how busy you are. It is such an honor 0:53:04.640 --> 0:53:08.359 and a delight to chat with you, so thank you, 0:53:08.640 --> 0:53:11.279 and to all my listeners, thank you for tuning in. 0:53:11.400 --> 0:53:14.759 As always, please let me know what you thought of 0:53:14.840 --> 0:53:17.480 the episode from today in the reviews. It means so 0:53:17.560 --> 0:53:20.359 much to hear from you and that is absolutely the 0:53:20.360 --> 0:53:23.600 best way to reach me and my team. We will 0:53:23.640 --> 0:53:29.560 be back, same bad time, same bad place next week 0:53:30.040 --> 0:53:43.920 and have a great one everybody. The office. Deep Dive 0:53:44.160 --> 0:53:48.440 is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside 0:53:48.480 --> 0:53:52.880 our executive producer, Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer, 0:53:53.160 --> 0:53:57.600 our producer is Adam Massias, our associate producer is Emily Carr, 0:53:57.760 --> 0:54:01.560 and our assistant editor is diego Topia. My main man 0:54:01.640 --> 0:54:05.400 in the booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble 0:54:05.480 --> 0:54:08.719 and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and 0:54:08.760 --> 0:54:23.400 the episode was mixed by seth Olandscape