Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Paul fig I directed about nineteen episodes of
Speaker 1: the Office. I was a co exact producer for one season,
Speaker 1: season five, and uh, it was probably my favorite job
Speaker 1: I've ever done working on this show. Hello everyone, and
Speaker 1: welcome to this week's episode of The Office. Deep Dive.
Speaker 1: Probably my favorite job I've ever done. I am your host,
Speaker 1: Brian Baumgartner, my guest today. Is the absolutely the only
Speaker 1: way to describe him. A bundle of joy Paul Feig. Now,
Speaker 1: Paul was a director and a producer on the Office.
Speaker 1: That's true, but those titles don't quite do him justice.
Speaker 1: Paul was a core member of the team starting in
Speaker 1: season two, so much so that when Greg starts did
Speaker 1: working more and more on Parks and Wreck in season five,
Speaker 1: Paul became our number one go to in house person
Speaker 1: on set for any questions or issues that came up.
Speaker 1: Paul was like the consigliari of the Office, you could say,
Speaker 1: and he had a huge influence on the show, as
Speaker 1: all good consigliaries do. But it wasn't just our show.
Speaker 1: Paul also created Freaks and Geeks and has made tons
Speaker 1: of fantastic comedy movies, Bridesmaids, Spy, The New Ghostbusters, so
Speaker 1: many more. And here's the thing. Paul once said that
Speaker 1: our casting director Alison Jones changed the face of comedy,
Speaker 1: which is true, but Allison says that Paul, along with
Speaker 1: Judd Apatow, changed the genre of comedy itself. Plus, Paul
Speaker 1: is hilarious. Just check out his Instagram you'll know what
Speaker 1: I mean. He's a super nice guy. And to top
Speaker 1: it off, he is the most dapper man in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: Definitely the only person who showed up for our conversation
Speaker 1: in a three piece suit. So on that note, here
Speaker 1: he is Paul fig Bubble and Squeak. I love it,
Speaker 1: Bubble and squeak on Bubble and Squeaker cookie every month
Speaker 1: left over from the NABB before. How are you? I'm good?
Speaker 1: Are you look amazing always? Yeah? You don't make yours like?
Speaker 1: Great to see you? Oh my god. Yes, it has
Speaker 1: been amazingly fun. Yeah, I mean, it's thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Oh no, this worked. Sitting down? Um, what are you
Speaker 1: about that? You're working on something shooting pot It was
Speaker 1: going to shoot a pilot in North Carolina, so ready
Speaker 1: for that, and then we're gonna do a movie after that.
Speaker 1: So very nice and busy which is nice. Yeah, what
Speaker 1: what we're in North Carolina is a pilots Wilmington's. I
Speaker 1: was there. I mean it's been now, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: maybe it's been a little bit of time. This show,
Speaker 1: which you probably never heard of. It was one of
Speaker 1: those weird things. It was a drama that I was
Speaker 1: a fan of and they called and I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was um good behavior. Oh yeah, oh that's a
Speaker 1: cool show. Oh my gosh. It was so much fun.
Speaker 1: And Wilmington's was great. Oh good, Yeah, that's my first
Speaker 1: time when I was an actor at it. Back in
Speaker 1: ninety four war I shot a movie there, Heavyweights. We
Speaker 1: shot that, but it was that was more Asheville Henderson Bills.
Speaker 1: It's more Blue Ridge Mountains. But I loved North Carolina.
Speaker 1: It was one of those cases. We have this every
Speaker 1: time I shoot anywhere. It's what we call I want
Speaker 1: to live there. Iteas you start looking for houses, I
Speaker 1: got to live here. Yeah, let's just start looking. Huh.
Speaker 1: I wonder what this model money will get me here
Speaker 1: on the ocean, and I always solve it by going, okay, now,
Speaker 1: flash forward. It's the final day of production and the
Speaker 1: trucks are pulling out of town and you're they're waving
Speaker 1: like all right here I am, and it's like, all right,
Speaker 1: what have I done? Lovely towns? But what the hell
Speaker 1: are we show biz people are gonna do? I know? Um, okay,
Speaker 1: So what we're talking about is The Office. And now,
Speaker 1: six years after we've stopped film management six years, it's
Speaker 1: by basically any measure, the most watch show on television.
Speaker 1: Totally insane, and people come to me all the time
Speaker 1: about it and kids, Well, that was the thing that
Speaker 1: always blew my mind. I wrote a couple of y
Speaker 1: A books, um, and so did these like middle school tours,
Speaker 1: and so when I would be promoting the book, it
Speaker 1: was kind of like, the kids are like whatever. So
Speaker 1: I just learned to pandor completely like I work on
Speaker 1: the Office, and they would go crazy. All they wanted
Speaker 1: to do was talk about The Office and they loved it. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's got such a relevance. How did you get involved
Speaker 1: originally in the show. Did you watch the British version
Speaker 1: of the show. Yeah, I watched the British version of
Speaker 1: the show, and actually at the time the agency I
Speaker 1: was at came to me and a million other people
Speaker 1: who had you know, had shows and said you want
Speaker 1: to do this, and I was immediately like, no, why
Speaker 1: would I possibly want to do that, Like, I can't
Speaker 1: take that on. You can only fail like as a showrunner,
Speaker 1: right totally. It's just like it's so iconic, you're like that,
Speaker 1: you can't you can't do it, just get away from it.
Speaker 1: So um So then yeah, a few years later I
Speaker 1: had heard that they were, you know, doing it. And
Speaker 1: actually the irony was I was shooting a pilot with
Speaker 1: Rodney Rothman called Early Bird back then, and so when
Speaker 1: we were shooting this scene writer's room scene, it was
Speaker 1: at the same studio where Greg Daniels was was editing
Speaker 1: the pilot, and I remember him going like, hey, guys,
Speaker 1: come in, come in. I'm gonna get your opinion on something.
Speaker 1: We're trying to figure out what the theme music is
Speaker 1: gonna be. And so he played a couple of different
Speaker 1: songs and then the piano one came up and we
Speaker 1: were like, yeah, that, I think that's the one that's
Speaker 1: really good. So I kind of like, wow, I was
Speaker 1: there at the beginning for the piano thing. That's amazing
Speaker 1: and then wild and then and then what happened was
Speaker 1: when he came on you know, you know, the whole
Speaker 1: thing about how it had to be the exact script
Speaker 1: from the British version. Remember watching it and just kind
Speaker 1: of going like, oh, I was hoping it would be
Speaker 1: something else. I was such a big Corral fan, and
Speaker 1: so I kind of had this thing in my head of, oh,
Speaker 1: I guess maybe it's not gonna you know, go, even
Speaker 1: though it was great in it. And then and I
Speaker 1: didn't watch the rest of the six, and then my
Speaker 1: agent called me up next year and said, oh, you
Speaker 1: know that shows coming back and it's you know, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be this hot show. And I was like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, but I like everybody involved
Speaker 1: so much. So then I went and watched the other
Speaker 1: five and went like, holy smokes, this is so funny.
Speaker 1: When I got a diversity day, I was like, this
Speaker 1: is one of the funniest things I've ever seen. So
Speaker 1: then I came on board for for the first full
Speaker 1: season and um, yeah, but I was at that first
Speaker 1: table read where they read the Dundees and all that,
Speaker 1: and then mine was Office Olympics was my first one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Office Olympics pretty early and in season two I think
Speaker 1: that's the fourth third or fourth episode. I think. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So Greg told me something interesting that he on the
Speaker 1: pilot decided that if they stayed faithful to the British script,
Speaker 1: the network couldn't give any notes. I buy that because
Speaker 1: they were like, well they worked over there, like how
Speaker 1: could you? And so what what he viewed his job
Speaker 1: on on the pilot was to create the world. It
Speaker 1: was really brilliant what he did. I mean the fact
Speaker 1: that you know, it was partly some of you guys
Speaker 1: got cast. Other people were writers. He said, why don't
Speaker 1: you be on the show, And it created that great
Speaker 1: world for the for the docuse style, you know, the
Speaker 1: big thing that you know, we've kind of all figured
Speaker 1: out going into season two. You know, the first six
Speaker 1: were trying to be very much like the British Office
Speaker 1: in the sense that Steve Correll's character was really unlikable.
Speaker 1: And it was when the forty year old virgin came
Speaker 1: out on that break that everybody goes like, wait, what's up,
Speaker 1: and it's like, oh, no, he's lovable. He can be
Speaker 1: a lovable loser, you know, and kind of be insufferable,
Speaker 1: but he has to have victories, and so you know
Speaker 1: that was getting seated in but it was really that
Speaker 1: moment I think we all felt in Office Olympics when
Speaker 1: when Steve made the decision to start crying, you know,
Speaker 1: or yet Terry when the Metal ceremony, Remember we were
Speaker 1: all kind of like that's it, Oh my god, and
Speaker 1: it was just um and it felt like it just
Speaker 1: you could feel that shift. Well, speaking of that, that
Speaker 1: moment and the Halloween moment, both directed by you, people
Speaker 1: have talked about the softening of him and the showing
Speaker 1: of his humanity. Yeah. Well remember in the in the
Speaker 1: stage directions for the Metal Ceremony, it was like everybody's
Speaker 1: kind of laughing at him, so it was gonna it
Speaker 1: was supposed to be this big burn on him. But
Speaker 1: I mean it's all Steve. I mean, Steve made this
Speaker 1: this vision to get emotional, and I remember we're just
Speaker 1: we're else standing there like oh my good. So I'm
Speaker 1: just rightening up, going like, go go further with it,
Speaker 1: Go further with it. Um. It's this thing that I've
Speaker 1: just discovered over the years because I love British comedy
Speaker 1: so much, and Britt's really love unlikable lead characters because
Speaker 1: then they just get to see them torn apart and
Speaker 1: there's some sort of a come upance with that, much
Speaker 1: like the British press to take people down. But American
Speaker 1: audiences can't get behind it. It makes them very frustrated.
Speaker 1: They want American audiences just want to invest in the
Speaker 1: lead character. It's it's our the beauty of how lovely.
Speaker 1: But a teenage country we are. We still have optimism
Speaker 1: and all that, and so I think it's great, but
Speaker 1: it's it's just this lesson I've learned over and over again,
Speaker 1: but I never learned it as fully as I did
Speaker 1: from my experience on the Office. Yeah, it's interesting because
Speaker 1: if you look at sort of the iconic dramas that
Speaker 1: were happening around the time that The Office was going,
Speaker 1: they're unlikable characters that found humanity. Like if you think
Speaker 1: of Tony Soprano or um Walter White or you know,
Speaker 1: you have these bad bad men that find a humanity
Speaker 1: that people somehow root for it. Did that was that
Speaker 1: a shift or was it sort of okay in terms
Speaker 1: of drama but not comedy here? I think it was.
Speaker 1: I think it's the difference between more niche cable stuff
Speaker 1: and mainstream network stuff. You know, because this is back
Speaker 1: when you know, well you guys started before networks ruled
Speaker 1: the roost, which is just not that way anymore. And
Speaker 1: so I think, you know, to have that broad appeal,
Speaker 1: you have to have this formula, right. Part of what
Speaker 1: we've talked about is that kind of this revolution in
Speaker 1: terms of changing the face of network television really started
Speaker 1: with you and Freaking Geeks. Um, what I know, I'll
Speaker 1: think full credit. I don't know if it's thank you,
Speaker 1: Brian no, I think. I mean, you know, we talked
Speaker 1: to Alison Jones, and Alison talked about like her affinity
Speaker 1: from Misfits and you know, she cast Golden Girls and
Speaker 1: Family Ties and all of these traditional network shows, and
Speaker 1: then she talked about Freaks and Geeks being the first
Speaker 1: cool show that she did, and that she had an
Speaker 1: affinity you know, for people who were sort of different.
Speaker 1: You do as well, Yeah, well, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: Freaks and Gigs was really my reaction to all the
Speaker 1: years of stuff I'd watched about cool kids and cool
Speaker 1: people in high schools, about all of the you know,
Speaker 1: it's like soap operas. I was just like, I can't
Speaker 1: take this anymore. Just it has no relevance to my past.
Speaker 1: What's and it makes me feel like a weirdo, like
Speaker 1: what group was I in? So I really just kind
Speaker 1: of wrote it as you know, as a reaction to that.
Speaker 1: Um no, I mean, you know there was things like
Speaker 1: Ally McBeal and stuff that we're kind of playing in
Speaker 1: that world. There was also the movie Welcome to the
Speaker 1: Dollhouse that came out was was really influential for a
Speaker 1: lot of people. And what it influenced at the networks
Speaker 1: was they were all kind of like, we need to
Speaker 1: get a show like that. So I had kind of
Speaker 1: on the side written this spec pilot and it just
Speaker 1: happened to kind of match into that, and so, um
Speaker 1: we we chopped it around and NBC just jumped on
Speaker 1: it in a great way. And we had one of
Speaker 1: these amazing meetings where you come into go like we
Speaker 1: have no notes, just go shoot it. And it's like
Speaker 1: it was, you know, going like you you know, I
Speaker 1: was all set for a fight of like you gotta
Speaker 1: let us cast you know, nerdy kids. I don't want
Speaker 1: to cast like models, and then you know, and they
Speaker 1: were like, no, we agree. So yeah, so it was
Speaker 1: really great and um yeah, I mean, you know, the
Speaker 1: thing we brought that wasn't a lot of is just
Speaker 1: the idea of like a bitter sweet comedy that's like
Speaker 1: not a comedy and not a drama that's sort of both.
Speaker 1: It's like real life, you know. But that's why we
Speaker 1: got canceled. We you know, we only aired twelve episodes,
Speaker 1: and the people at the network, we're in love with
Speaker 1: the show, but the heads of the network just couldn't
Speaker 1: figure it out because it just didn't It didn't do
Speaker 1: what a normal TV show does. It wasn't it wasn't
Speaker 1: wish fulfillment, you know. I remember them always going like,
Speaker 1: why can't he why can't you get with the cheerleaders, Like,
Speaker 1: we don't have a show because of the cheerleader. Wouldn't
Speaker 1: be real life. None of our expers that were writers.
Speaker 1: You want to bring a bunch of cool guys in, right, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And then it just kind of yeah, we just you know,
Speaker 1: did it as long as we could not. You know,
Speaker 1: I always credit NBC for letting us do what we
Speaker 1: did right well. And I think it's why everybody who
Speaker 1: worked on the office has a huge soft spot for
Speaker 1: Kevin Riley because he stuck his neck out. You know,
Speaker 1: he wasn't there when Freaks and Geeks was there, but
Speaker 1: by the time the Office came around and he fought
Speaker 1: for it. Yeah, I mean, yeah, he was the champion
Speaker 1: the toll because I know that thing was I mean,
Speaker 1: any other person would have canceled that show after the
Speaker 1: first six just because of the ratings. Because of the ratings,
Speaker 1: you know, was we were in the basement of the
Speaker 1: ratings every week ironically with seven million viewers per week,
Speaker 1: which now we would be with the biggest show into
Speaker 1: you totally. Um. Gregg talked about that he was sure
Speaker 1: that the show would fail, and he talked about that
Speaker 1: he felt like his contribution would that it would be
Speaker 1: all worth it if somehow, in the smallest of way,
Speaker 1: he could nudge the ship of comedy in just a
Speaker 1: different direction, coming out of a friend's will and gret
Speaker 1: you know, just that's something that just he found funnier.
Speaker 1: He was like, it would have been worth it, Like
Speaker 1: if I had just done that, well, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I always say in comedy there are these moments that
Speaker 1: everything jumps ahead, and he definitely did that. But you know,
Speaker 1: one of the many things that was in the way
Speaker 1: of the Office taking off in the beginning was that style,
Speaker 1: was that docu style with the zooming camera. Now we're
Speaker 1: so used to it and nobody talks about it. But
Speaker 1: I don't know, you've probably heard this too. You know,
Speaker 1: I can't watch it. It It makes me sick. I want
Speaker 1: to throw up. It's the things go moving around. But
Speaker 1: I always credit YouTube kind of created a world in
Speaker 1: which we could do this because, you know, comedy before
Speaker 1: that was very over lit, very you know, three camera looking,
Speaker 1: or it was a movie just very you know, here's
Speaker 1: the shots to get the shots, and it was very
Speaker 1: joke oriented to everything was setup, jokes out of jokebody's
Speaker 1: really snappy and all this. And because of YouTube, people
Speaker 1: started needs so much humor in captured moments and things
Speaker 1: just happening on the fly and that's real, and that
Speaker 1: comedy became completely behavioral. And I felt over the last
Speaker 1: ten years, people have no patience for jokes at all.
Speaker 1: If it sounds like a joke, and they're still jokes,
Speaker 1: but they can't be like, you know, snappy, snappy, clever
Speaker 1: dialogue it has, you know, on Freaks Engage, our biggest
Speaker 1: laughs would be you know, Martin stars going you know that,
Speaker 1: but they see them script and back in the old days,
Speaker 1: like you need a joke here need a punchlines and no, no,
Speaker 1: that's the joke. And you know, one of my best
Speaker 1: friends is is Matt Reeves who did clover Field, you know,
Speaker 1: and people were like, oh, oh my god, I'm throwing
Speaker 1: up and all this stuff. You know, now it looks
Speaker 1: we see it all the time, so it looks great.
Speaker 1: You don't have a problem with that. Yeah, Greg and
Speaker 1: Ken kappas Matt and Randall. You know, one of the
Speaker 1: things that they talked about was the idea that everything
Speaker 1: is harder makes it better. Well, I mean it was
Speaker 1: absolutely brilliant that he decided to get a real documentary
Speaker 1: crew to shoot this. I mean, it's honestly, I'm doing
Speaker 1: a pilot right now that I'm just completely copying what
Speaker 1: he did because somebody like Randall and Matt, who were
Speaker 1: so brilliant, they are writers, they are actors, they are
Speaker 1: producers in the way that they do this because they
Speaker 1: have the ability coming from that world to see the
Speaker 1: scene like they've never seen it before every time they
Speaker 1: shoot it. And as a director, it's my absolute favorite
Speaker 1: way to work because it's all about performance and it's
Speaker 1: also all about kind of we're the audience, the cameras,
Speaker 1: the audience going wait what he said that, and like
Speaker 1: and kind of zooming in, and their ability to know
Speaker 1: when to zoom in on somebody is just you know,
Speaker 1: people go, oh, do you direct? That's like no, I
Speaker 1: don't like occasionally going oh wait, hold off, or like
Speaker 1: maybe pull wider here, but in general, just like you guys,
Speaker 1: do what you're gonna do, and then we'll kind of
Speaker 1: see if we want to change it. But cent of
Speaker 1: the time you're just like, man, they don't nailed it right,
Speaker 1: so smart. And you know, I've said before this and
Speaker 1: through this process that every shot there was always a
Speaker 1: discussion about where the camera was, not in terms of
Speaker 1: getting the shot, but in terms of intention behavior character.
Speaker 1: Is the camera in the same room, Are the character
Speaker 1: is aware that it's in the room. How does that
Speaker 1: change their behavior knowing that it's there? Yeah, totally. I
Speaker 1: Mean That's why I've always had a hard time watching
Speaker 1: reality TV real reality quote unquote, because I just go,
Speaker 1: everyone's on camera. They know they're on cameras, So I'm
Speaker 1: not watching normal behavior. I'm watching them playing to the cameras.
Speaker 1: And so the fact that they harness that it makes
Speaker 1: the comedy so much better because you know, and we
Speaker 1: always you know, they scripted it out a lot of
Speaker 1: the time, but it was always like, when's the spy shot?
Speaker 1: When do we want to catch people where they have
Speaker 1: no idea they're on camera. We're seeing the real person
Speaker 1: versus people that are very aware of the camera. And
Speaker 1: it's such a part of the writing, it's such a
Speaker 1: part of the storytelling that, you know, the fact that
Speaker 1: they used that and and really played into it is great,
Speaker 1: even down to things like, you know, the the idea
Speaker 1: that on the Talking Heads, anybody who had kind of
Speaker 1: a bright future got to be against the window that
Speaker 1: looked out to the streets, and everybody who was stuck
Speaker 1: in the place got you know, the office behind them. Yes,
Speaker 1: John Krasinski, are sorry, Jim being towards the women, Pam
Speaker 1: exactly being toward the window. You know, remember coming in
Speaker 1: the first time. You know, the first thing I ever
Speaker 1: did when I was directing was the Talking Heads. You
Speaker 1: just started the day with the Talking Heads, and you know,
Speaker 1: I came in and got all this whole thing, like
Speaker 1: really interview people, and I did, and you guys were
Speaker 1: so nice you put up with that. I asked all
Speaker 1: these questions before I get to the scripted thing, but
Speaker 1: it was just it was fun. I mean, for me,
Speaker 1: it was just this. You know, I played with improv
Speaker 1: on camera before, but not to this Dan, you know,
Speaker 1: because I worked on the Arrested development, which was so
Speaker 1: much fun. Those scripts are so dense that even though
Speaker 1: we would do let improv, it just wouldn't get used because,
Speaker 1: you know, because of the way they wanted to cut
Speaker 1: the show. So you know the fact that Greg I
Speaker 1: can never say enough stuff about Greg Daniels. He's just
Speaker 1: so brilliant and I learned more from him and I
Speaker 1: think anybody in the business. You know, the fact that
Speaker 1: he had the confidence to let us throw out storylines
Speaker 1: because we would stumble upon an improv. You know, in
Speaker 1: Halloween is is the classic one with that thing which
Speaker 1: is Dwight, you know, looking like the you know, the
Speaker 1: the Emperor, and we were just like, this is so funny,
Speaker 1: and that he went for it, you know, that's so great. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a great example. Yeah, of just a story that
Speaker 1: is funny and let's let it play out as long
Speaker 1: as it's a moment. You know, like I recognize that
Speaker 1: he oh god, he looks like he's from Star Wars
Speaker 1: and then then you will do it, Michael or whatever
Speaker 1: you're saying. I said, yeah, totally. Um, I can't remember
Speaker 1: if we were if we did this. By the time
Speaker 1: you were there, it started to peter out because the
Speaker 1: shoots got more complicated. But one of the things that
Speaker 1: Ken Kappas did and we did, I know, through the
Speaker 1: first season was the thirty minutes of busy work. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so coming in and ultimately he wanted and you know,
Speaker 1: Greg wanted it to feel like we had been there,
Speaker 1: that we had been sitting there. So even us being
Speaker 1: there for thirty minutes, it's like your chair feels different
Speaker 1: than if you just sit down, which I just I
Speaker 1: think is so interesting. Yeah, it's fascinating. I Mean, one
Speaker 1: of the things I love about Ken is like he
Speaker 1: doesn't even say action. He just goes go ahead, And
Speaker 1: which is great because there is that thing and I
Speaker 1: when I do my movies and all that I've I've
Speaker 1: purged it out of what I do. Even i'd still
Speaker 1: call action, but there is something about it leads up
Speaker 1: to this like okay, but yeah and go and it's
Speaker 1: it's a big event. That's why I always just go
Speaker 1: like go again. Go again, go again, to get people
Speaker 1: out of that thing of like here it comes, they've
Speaker 1: just redone your makeup that never is rolling and go.
Speaker 1: And so the thing on the office was always that
Speaker 1: the cameras never turned off until we finished a scene.
Speaker 1: So we just kept rolling, just kept going, moving around. Also,
Speaker 1: the thing that that they were doing, and I think
Speaker 1: Ken started this too, is just saying, like all day,
Speaker 1: everybody has to be here all day just because we're
Speaker 1: in the office. Who don't know who we're going to
Speaker 1: see in the background because the camera is gonna be
Speaker 1: moving around, you know. And that carried on for a
Speaker 1: couple of seasons, and people well started getting more successful.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, but to a certain degree. It
Speaker 1: was there throughout I mean, you know, even later and
Speaker 1: there were scenes that were taking place at the reception
Speaker 1: area and Steve Carroll was sitting in you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: as Michael Scott was sitting in his office there in
Speaker 1: the background. No, I mean, it definitely happened. But but
Speaker 1: who drew the short straw in that whole series? It
Speaker 1: was poor. He was the only when we saw through
Speaker 1: the window. He was the only person that we saw
Speaker 1: when we do the talking heads that looked into the office,
Speaker 1: so he had Felis somehow escaped rememby asking for some
Speaker 1: Phillis to come in a couple of times, I might
Speaker 1: see your hand right. Just one other questions sort of
Speaker 1: on this topic is, you know, basically, how do you
Speaker 1: feel like the fact that there were ordinary looking people,
Speaker 1: um that that and the fact that we were all
Speaker 1: essentially unknown, how did that contribute to you think to
Speaker 1: creating that world. Well, I made it much more relatable.
Speaker 1: It's funny because I always say, like, you know, we
Speaker 1: always try to go you know, like, let's just cast
Speaker 1: really normal people. The minisome he gets on camera, they
Speaker 1: do become appealing. It's just a natural thing that happens.
Speaker 1: So again it goes back to this docu style. I
Speaker 1: think that is just the key to everything because it
Speaker 1: takes all the grandiosity out of the filmmaking process. You know,
Speaker 1: when you get your close up and you're in a
Speaker 1: movie or TV show and you get a close up,
Speaker 1: we're tracking around you. It just becomes an event. It
Speaker 1: just eventizes little moments in life. And the fact that
Speaker 1: if everybody's sitting there and we're kind of at this
Speaker 1: sort of high angle because all the cameramen stand up
Speaker 1: generally unless Randall's on his pootie scooty what you called it,
Speaker 1: sitting on this little thing with wheels. Um, we're seeing
Speaker 1: it the way if we would just walk through the office,
Speaker 1: that's how we we'd be watching it. And that's why
Speaker 1: I think with the zooming in on people, it's just
Speaker 1: like you as an audience, go oh, I would focus
Speaker 1: on that person, and somehow in my brain I would
Speaker 1: actually zoom in on them because your eye kind of
Speaker 1: does weird things that you don't realize as you're taking
Speaker 1: in details. And I think that's all contributed to making
Speaker 1: it feel just normal. And what then you can do
Speaker 1: when you have this thing of everything feels very real
Speaker 1: and everybody's under playing because also nobody on the show
Speaker 1: is playing big. But if something big does happen, it
Speaker 1: is in a real world context, so you can get
Speaker 1: away with it. So you know, there's some pretty absurd
Speaker 1: stuff that happened on the office, but you just go like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's funny. You don't go if it had been shot
Speaker 1: in a standard movie way with like you zoom in
Speaker 1: and a wide lens you did this, and that you'd
Speaker 1: go like, no, that's dumb, you know, or that's too much,
Speaker 1: but in this real life context that makes it all
Speaker 1: feel real and and so um yeah, you know, but
Speaker 1: you guys were all very very appealing. Yes in our
Speaker 1: own specific way, yes exactly. You know. I've always said
Speaker 1: this about especially it's more about like three camera kind
Speaker 1: of stuff, but it really applies to the best TV shows,
Speaker 1: the most popular comedies ever, which is it's generally in
Speaker 1: one place. That's why cheers work so well, you go, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go visit my friends in this place that
Speaker 1: I feel very comfortable. And so that's what the office had.
Speaker 1: And it's funny as the seasons went on, they were
Speaker 1: always trying to get out of the office more and
Speaker 1: I was always kind of like, let's not go too
Speaker 1: much because I love being in this place now. It's
Speaker 1: my happy place. So that you know, that's what you
Speaker 1: had going for you. But then with this new style,
Speaker 1: which the funny thing was at that time sitcoms were
Speaker 1: trying to break out of their three camera thing. And
Speaker 1: so if you watch there was occasionally watch a sitcom
Speaker 1: and they kind of put some shot in or they
Speaker 1: do something. But let's be tracking down the hall and
Speaker 1: you're like, wait, what's happening? You know this is not
Speaker 1: normal and it would distance you from it, but you
Speaker 1: guys have the ability to just have this freedom with
Speaker 1: the cameras. Right. Backing up slightly, you mentioned Diversity Day. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I think that we've talked a lot about
Speaker 1: I don't know what you want to call them, but
Speaker 1: issue episodes. That sounds so like very special episode. That
Speaker 1: wasn't the intention, but you know, talking about really from
Speaker 1: our second episode and Diversity Day, beginning to talk about
Speaker 1: difficult social issues in a way that some would say
Speaker 1: hadn't been done on television since All in the Family,
Speaker 1: in terms of looking at race, but looking at it
Speaker 1: in a different way with a protagonist who was the
Speaker 1: one kind of stirring the pot. Yeah, a lot of
Speaker 1: people have said it, and Steve himself said he wasn't
Speaker 1: a bad guy. It was it was just he wasn't
Speaker 1: woken off. Yeah, he's not savvy enough and he The
Speaker 1: great thing about Steve's character, you know, I also think
Speaker 1: Archie Bunker is like one of the greatest characters, possibly
Speaker 1: the greatest character I've ever been in comedy. But there
Speaker 1: are people who are just convinced they're right Also when
Speaker 1: they say something terrible, it's like, what what did I say?
Speaker 1: What did I say that's so terrible? It's that weird
Speaker 1: innocence of thinking get away with it that that really
Speaker 1: makes the difference. You know, there's no malice in that person.
Speaker 1: But you talked about unlikable leading men um, you know,
Speaker 1: being a very British thing. But it's funny like when
Speaker 1: you look at a television history and you bring up
Speaker 1: Archie Bunker again, another sort of unlikable leading man. Yeah,
Speaker 1: very much so. I mean, you know, that's one of
Speaker 1: the most challenging characters to be on TV. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, people try to replicate that so many times,
Speaker 1: and it just that was so specific to the time. Ironically,
Speaker 1: I almost like, I think almost we're even more divided now.
Speaker 1: I don't even think you think you can pull it
Speaker 1: off because everybody's so self defensive. But back then there
Speaker 1: was ability to even though everybody passions were high. You
Speaker 1: needed that that steam relief for whatever, to to get
Speaker 1: these ideas out there. And also, you know, surrounding that
Speaker 1: shows just brilliant because it's the wife who's just a saint,
Speaker 1: and then the overbearing son in law who's too far
Speaker 1: the other way, you know, and then the daughter is
Speaker 1: kind of caught in the middle. So if you kind
Speaker 1: of present a fair and balanced mixture of opinions, then
Speaker 1: you can have fun with it. And then if you
Speaker 1: again take the malice out of it, unless you need
Speaker 1: a villain, then everybody's just kind of misguided. Then it
Speaker 1: becomes about the appealing nous of the people playing those roles.
Speaker 1: And I don't mean looks or anything. I just mean
Speaker 1: do you inherently like them? And you you inherently like
Speaker 1: Steve because he is just he's so funny and also
Speaker 1: just you know, he thinks he's doing the doing the
Speaker 1: right thing, and you can't. It's hard for Americans at
Speaker 1: least to get mad at that. Right. Where do you
Speaker 1: think that he fits in Michael Scott sort of in
Speaker 1: the history of comedy leading man in television. I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: it's a real close race between Carol O'Connor and Steve Carrell.
Speaker 1: For me, I've I've lamented this before, and whenever I
Speaker 1: say it, sometimes it turned the press remembers that this
Speaker 1: didn't happen, that Steve Carrell never won an Emmy, never
Speaker 1: wanted and it makes me mental and you know Alc Balden.
Speaker 1: I love him. He's the funniest guy in the world.
Speaker 1: He's he's great. But you know that was a showy
Speaker 1: part and Steve's part. I mean people would say it
Speaker 1: to me, you like, well, but he just shows up
Speaker 1: and he just it's crazy, and it's like, are you
Speaker 1: fucking kidding me? You know, first of all, if you
Speaker 1: know Steve, he's not crazy at all. He's one of
Speaker 1: the most even tempered, smart guys I've ever met in
Speaker 1: my life. But for comedy be good, it's gotta look easy.
Speaker 1: If it looks sweaty and it looks like people are
Speaker 1: trying too hard, it's terrible. But then when you do
Speaker 1: so great that you make it so real, people like,
Speaker 1: well you're not doing anything. So at some point you
Speaker 1: just go awards mean nothing and screw it, let's just
Speaker 1: throw it out. But the fact that there's a comedy
Speaker 1: Leading Man category and he can never win it is
Speaker 1: it's crazy. And I really think Academy, do you you like
Speaker 1: the President's Award or whatever where you give somebody who's
Speaker 1: been not taken care of give him that Emmy and
Speaker 1: should be like five ft high. Yeah? Yeah, Um. When
Speaker 1: I was talking to Rain, I said to him, the
Speaker 1: comedy duo of the two of them together, you reference
Speaker 1: the Halloween episode two. They're just so fine, They're just
Speaker 1: so funny, and there's just it's these two archetypal characters
Speaker 1: in the way that they fit together was just brilliant. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and there's not I mean, there's not really a parallel
Speaker 1: to them, because it's not Laurel and Hardy, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's not abbonic Ostello. Because of that exactly what
Speaker 1: you're saying. It's this weird they need each other, but
Speaker 1: Michael doesn't want white acceptance, and it's it's really I mean,
Speaker 1: but you know, such credit to Rain. I mean, what
Speaker 1: an amazing character he pulled in to be a character
Speaker 1: that could have been so over the top arch but
Speaker 1: there is a humanity in him because he's just that
Speaker 1: guy that we all know who's just like striving and
Speaker 1: wants it and wants it so much and tries to
Speaker 1: kind of throw everybody else out of the way, but
Speaker 1: he's still sensitive. And Yeah, it's really I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: in Rain, it's the greatest guy too well, and part
Speaker 1: of why the show is so popular. I think that
Speaker 1: Dwight shrewd, this character full of contradictions that don't make
Speaker 1: any like heavy metal, dungeon and drag it like all
Speaker 1: of these weird things. But they're so specific that that
Speaker 1: is actually what makes it universal that people like like
Speaker 1: see that it's a real character, a real person. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, because characters are all specifics. You know, when
Speaker 1: you get in trouble, when you're writing something as you
Speaker 1: just kind of have this general kind of feeling of
Speaker 1: what your character does, and you know it's really going
Speaker 1: through that laos agree list of like specifics. What is
Speaker 1: their religion, what do they believe in? What are the
Speaker 1: are they afraid? You know? What's their favorite food? Those
Speaker 1: things make up who we are if you think about it.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know that that's It's like how many
Speaker 1: times you meet somebody you really like them, then you'll
Speaker 1: find out one thing and you're like, wait, what you know,
Speaker 1: either suddenly you don't like them because of it, or
Speaker 1: you feel really bad for them, or you know. So
Speaker 1: it is that that attention to detail, and that's a
Speaker 1: great thing about the television series is that you have
Speaker 1: week after week to keep establishing these things and to
Speaker 1: surprise people with you know, oh, I thought I knew
Speaker 1: exactly who that person was, and you go like, oh
Speaker 1: you think, you know, check this out. And that's what's
Speaker 1: brilliant about it. I've gone to movies because I get
Speaker 1: more of a stomach gig thinking about having to do
Speaker 1: stuff week after week, because I'm a little more of
Speaker 1: a singular task person. So that's why I when a
Speaker 1: show is consistently great week after week, year after year,
Speaker 1: it's like a magic trick or something, and you know,
Speaker 1: in and just you know, hats off to those those writers.
Speaker 1: I remember just standing watching them from the other side
Speaker 1: of the room going like that is the most brilliant
Speaker 1: group of writers. Like you'd be hard pressed to put
Speaker 1: together a gang like that again, you know, and and
Speaker 1: everything they came up with was brilliant. And I would
Speaker 1: just sit in that writer's room and just going, wow,
Speaker 1: you know, it's marvel. You know, it's the case. I
Speaker 1: try to pitch a joke and they kind to look
Speaker 1: at me like okay, you know, like suddenly dad in
Speaker 1: the room like pitching some shitty, old hackey joke and
Speaker 1: they're like, okay, well I heard um, as it's been
Speaker 1: explained to me. Like in a writer's room, you really
Speaker 1: have the people who start and they're really good at story,
Speaker 1: and then you know they're the senior there. Then you
Speaker 1: hire in the joke people, and then eventually the story
Speaker 1: people leave, and then you just have the joke people
Speaker 1: kind of running the ship, but they're not as good
Speaker 1: as story. But I mean, when you think of a
Speaker 1: Gen Silata and Paul Lieberstein and Mike Shure and Mindy
Speaker 1: and Gene and mend and b J and yeah, uh no,
Speaker 1: I mean that that's really that's smart. I never thought
Speaker 1: about it that way, but it's completely true. People didn't
Speaker 1: have a specific thing they did that they were known for,
Speaker 1: and I think that is really smart because then everybody
Speaker 1: brought a depth of story and funny to everything they
Speaker 1: were pitching, you know, and again sitting around that table
Speaker 1: and hearing the pitches, you know, when they were going
Speaker 1: through and punching up a script or whatever. That's why
Speaker 1: when I would pitch like a joke, it just like
Speaker 1: hit like a lead balloon. I'm just pitching like a
Speaker 1: funny word or a funny word play. It's like, oh god,
Speaker 1: but I learned so much on that, Like, you know,
Speaker 1: it came kind of came out of that whole experience
Speaker 1: of my years. They're going like, oh, you know, behavioral comedy,
Speaker 1: this is how it works. It was weird. That's what
Speaker 1: we used to do on freaks and gigs. But I
Speaker 1: would get in this setting of a half hour thing
Speaker 1: go like, oh, you gotta be more jokey and and
Speaker 1: so you know, they what a brilliant group. Many people
Speaker 1: believe the greatest episode of the Office is Dinner Party, Uh,
Speaker 1: that you directed and you were not supposed to direct it.
Speaker 1: Somebody else is supposed to direct it. And then the
Speaker 1: writer's strike happened. But I remember I had been given
Speaker 1: the script to Survivor Man, I think was the one,
Speaker 1: and I remember going like, oh, I like the script,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, can I please have dinner Party? And
Speaker 1: it's like, well, it's already been promised that somebody else.
Speaker 1: It's like oh no, So I mean I've literally try
Speaker 1: to figure out like how I could subvert it or whatever.
Speaker 1: And then the writer's strike dropped into our laps in
Speaker 1: a horrible way, and that was what a terrible time
Speaker 1: that was. But it just happened to work out that
Speaker 1: when it came back, it was available for me to
Speaker 1: do because I think he was busy, and um, it
Speaker 1: was one of those things you just read and go like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is the funniest thing I've ever read.
Speaker 1: But it's also what I love because it's so cringe e.
Speaker 1: This is just going to be like excruciating, but that's
Speaker 1: my favorite kind of comedy. But if you remember, I
Speaker 1: think it was probably when it aired, probably our most
Speaker 1: hated episode. I mean, people did not like it because
Speaker 1: it made them so uncomfortable, and I remember being very
Speaker 1: surprised by that. But the feedback was coming out, you know,
Speaker 1: on the website, and we were just getting really bad
Speaker 1: feedback from it. So I'm so happy that now it
Speaker 1: sorted itself out and it really taught me something I
Speaker 1: didn't realize before that, which is the hardest part about
Speaker 1: just you know, when you have a movie out or anything,
Speaker 1: if you have any kind of track record, people know
Speaker 1: what you do, you've got a voice, or they're used
Speaker 1: to stuff that you've done. That the biggest impediment to
Speaker 1: people enjoying something is the fact that it exists, and
Speaker 1: they have to get used to it existing, and so
Speaker 1: you know, they they're used to the feel of the office,
Speaker 1: which is fun and definitely has cringe e stuff in it.
Speaker 1: But so then when this thing comes up and you're like,
Speaker 1: we're just gonna dangle you in the wind and make
Speaker 1: you feel so uncomfortable that they're like, well, I can't,
Speaker 1: how dare you do this to me? But then when
Speaker 1: they watched and then they've gotten that out of their
Speaker 1: head and now they know it exists and they go
Speaker 1: back and watch it again, then you go like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, this is the funniest thing I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: And that episode is so obviously driven by that cast,
Speaker 1: and um, how funny they are, and this is one
Speaker 1: time we're putting them in a setting outside of the office.
Speaker 1: Worked so great because it was a setting that meant
Speaker 1: so much to one person. I mean, I think I
Speaker 1: still I don't think I ever laugh as hard as
Speaker 1: when we did the thing of Michael giving the tour
Speaker 1: of that living room with that little TV and then
Speaker 1: the then the shitty table, and it just it was
Speaker 1: that was just such a team effort between Steve as
Speaker 1: a performer, in between Randall and I and Matt figuring
Speaker 1: out like you think you're on a big TV and
Speaker 1: you pull out in this tiny thing, and then how
Speaker 1: do we whip over to that hitty table. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's just so funny. But the thing I take away
Speaker 1: most from that episode was, and again the genius of
Speaker 1: Steve Correll, the big breakdown they have about having a baby.
Speaker 1: You know, it happens at the door, and it got
Speaker 1: very dramatic, and you know, it's really like I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, like Steve's really killing this and it's
Speaker 1: so dramatic. But then we all kind of went, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's gotta be funny. So I just remember going to
Speaker 1: Steve going like, it's so good, what can you do
Speaker 1: to just kind of make it funny? And that's when
Speaker 1: he did the whole snip snap, snip snap that thing.
Speaker 1: Do you know how many times v sector he has
Speaker 1: in that just like falling apart, And then they be
Speaker 1: punching in on Krazinski, who just found the funniest moment
Speaker 1: to when he reveals the thing and just John it
Speaker 1: just takes that little look to the camera and Randall
Speaker 1: crashes in on him and it's the funniest. I think
Speaker 1: that's possibly the funniest reaction shot in the whole history
Speaker 1: of the Office. Um oh, I'm just I'm so proud
Speaker 1: of that episode. And and it was it was just
Speaker 1: so fun to put together. It was also fun just
Speaker 1: to go in and figure out because I I was
Speaker 1: the first person to shooting Michael's condo when he bought it,
Speaker 1: So then going in and going like what did Jan
Speaker 1: do to this place? And that was just a blast
Speaker 1: that they just let us completely, you know, go wild
Speaker 1: with kimonos on the wall and in the big the
Speaker 1: big Andy warhol of Jan, which we never we never
Speaker 1: feature it just there and you go like, oh my god, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah exactly. Um So in season five, you came on
Speaker 1: as a co executive producer, right, and that was really
Speaker 1: about I mean, it came out a function of well, one,
Speaker 1: how great you are and two that Greg was sort
Speaker 1: of stepping away and beginning to go work on Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: how why did you decide to do that? I loved
Speaker 1: you guys so much? And it was really that when
Speaker 1: the opportunity was presented to me, I remember thinking like,
Speaker 1: this is gonna be like the greatest schooling I've ever had,
Speaker 1: you know, And that was I said. One of the
Speaker 1: things was I want to be I'd like to be
Speaker 1: in the writer's room too, which they definitely wanted. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, it allowed me to go into helpful I was,
Speaker 1: but I was in there. Um yeah, I just really
Speaker 1: wanted to be more and more part of that show.
Speaker 1: I knew that how great it was, and obviously by
Speaker 1: that point it was a hit too. But you know,
Speaker 1: I couldn't get movies made, which was all I really
Speaker 1: wanted to do. But since I couldn't do that, I
Speaker 1: was like, I'm sitting with this amazing gift. I really
Speaker 1: want to just be a part of it. And and
Speaker 1: you know what what happened with you know, when Gregg
Speaker 1: brought me on too, just like a lot of people
Speaker 1: had in their contracts that they were going to get
Speaker 1: to direct an episode, and so he really wanted to
Speaker 1: be there to help people. And I love that, you know.
Speaker 1: It was so I got to you know, be with
Speaker 1: Steve Carell when he directed his first episode, and I
Speaker 1: also got to be with you know, you know, some
Speaker 1: of our editors when they were doing it too, and
Speaker 1: it was it was fun, and I also got to
Speaker 1: spend more and more time on the set, which I love.
Speaker 1: Like I will fully admit, the one thing that I'm
Speaker 1: really sad about is I was not allowed to direct
Speaker 1: the Super Bowl episode because I think the network wasn't
Speaker 1: thrilled with the Christmas episode, the Meredith's um Moroccan Christmas. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: I think that they had some issues. So I remember
Speaker 1: being kind of penalized because I was kind of like, well,
Speaker 1: of course I'm the in house director, I get to
Speaker 1: do the hour long one, and then you know, I didn't,
Speaker 1: and I remember just being very upset, and then it
Speaker 1: won the Emmy for the Directors. But he did a
Speaker 1: great job, I mean, amazing job. Um you also directed
Speaker 1: um Niagara. Um, how how did you find out ultimately
Speaker 1: how that the wedding actually played out with the other
Speaker 1: wedding in Niagara, etcetera. Well, I mean it was you know,
Speaker 1: first I was so excited to get to do that one,
Speaker 1: and you know, the first time we ever think we
Speaker 1: ever went on location to do anything on the show,
Speaker 1: even though all the stuff we shot at you know
Speaker 1: that's supposed to be there was actually in uh the
Speaker 1: smokehouse right right block away from my house. My actual um,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean one of the greatest honors for
Speaker 1: me was also getting to do the Proposal, which which
Speaker 1: was the most expensive shot we ever did in the
Speaker 1: show's history. That was the very first episode of that
Speaker 1: that season, and we basically blew the entire budget for
Speaker 1: the rest of the season on that shot, which costs
Speaker 1: I mean like a half a million dollars because it
Speaker 1: filled a CG and and all this anyway, Um, but
Speaker 1: so yes, when we got to the wedding, it was
Speaker 1: very emotional. It was weird because we're gonna shoot on this,
Speaker 1: you know, the Lady of the Mist or made of
Speaker 1: the Mist thing, So that just brought so many logistical
Speaker 1: things that you're kind of like, it was hard to
Speaker 1: kind of invest in the emotion of it at first
Speaker 1: because I was so worried, like, are we gonna get soaked?
Speaker 1: Are we gonna you know, it's a camera gonna screw up.
Speaker 1: But it wasn't until we got in the editing room.
Speaker 1: It was Claire, you know, Claire edited, and I was
Speaker 1: there with her when we decided we were going to
Speaker 1: intermix the dance number with the wedding, and we just
Speaker 1: burst into tears. I mean, I just got I still
Speaker 1: get I get so emotional watching that because it's so beautiful,
Speaker 1: the way that it goes back and forth between the two.
Speaker 1: But it's all so I'm jumping all around, but there
Speaker 1: was so many things in my head when we put
Speaker 1: that episode together, that dance number, which came out of
Speaker 1: the blue. I mean, do you know the whole backstory
Speaker 1: on you know what was originally Originally Greg had this
Speaker 1: insane idea that was hilarious that the Dwight was gonna
Speaker 1: d ride a horse over the Niagara false and we
Speaker 1: were just like, I don't know, I don't we want
Speaker 1: to kill a horse on Pam and Jim's wedding. And
Speaker 1: he kind of fought for it and fought for it
Speaker 1: and then finally gave in. And so it was a
Speaker 1: very last minute thing. We had like like a day
Speaker 1: or two, and that wedding video was all over the internet.
Speaker 1: It was kind of the perfect setup. And then when
Speaker 1: we were shooting in that church all day, I mean,
Speaker 1: it was so much to shoot that we were running
Speaker 1: out of time and I was like, literally had like
Speaker 1: a half hour left. I was like, I'm not, I
Speaker 1: don't have time to get this dance number. So like
Speaker 1: we're gonna be like maybe two takes at it, and
Speaker 1: the first time you guys did it, it was gold,
Speaker 1: and it's just like that didn't dropped the mic. We
Speaker 1: did it one more time but we didn't need it
Speaker 1: because the second time, but it was really having all
Speaker 1: those elements to work with that it just gave us
Speaker 1: enough cards to really juffle A beautiful day. Yeah. By
Speaker 1: the way, that I don't know if you remember this.
Speaker 1: The people walking behind Jim and Pam onto the Maid
Speaker 1: of the mist my parents. Oh that's right, who were vacationing.
Speaker 1: And I I do remember that. I do remember that there.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, we'll see. And I think you had
Speaker 1: met them on Company Picnic the hundredth episode. They had
Speaker 1: come there and I think you had actually remember that.
Speaker 1: I didn't direct that one, but I was there supervising. Yes,
Speaker 1: you're gonna parents. Um. One other question I have to ask,
Speaker 1: because you just brought it up. You directed the proposal episode. Um.
Speaker 1: Sound or no sound? Oh, I was very I was
Speaker 1: a no sound guy, very much. So yeah. Oh wait, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I was a sound guy. Oh my god. No, that
Speaker 1: was That was the most contentious moment we all ever had. No.
Speaker 1: I was very nervous about it was so emotionally with
Speaker 1: the sound. And I'm glad we did it because I
Speaker 1: think it made you know, flash forward to Michael's last
Speaker 1: episode much more powerful if we had done that gag
Speaker 1: a couple of times, but we did. Their performance was
Speaker 1: so good and hearing her and going like oh my
Speaker 1: god and all that. It just we're already dealing with
Speaker 1: so much, with all the across the you know, the
Speaker 1: highway and zooming in all these cars and all that that.
Speaker 1: I just yeah, I remember fighting really really hard for that,
Speaker 1: and I think Greg was always kind of on the
Speaker 1: fence of whether we should have done it. Um talk
Speaker 1: about one word, literally, Hey, guy who fixes the cars
Speaker 1: for the show, come on in. What do you think
Speaker 1: Someone told the story that he brought in a security
Speaker 1: guard and came in to watch it. He was like,
Speaker 1: he was like, who are these guys talking? Like he
Speaker 1: had no idea, Like I've never watched the show. It
Speaker 1: was just like, yes, Um. You also directed Steve Carrell's
Speaker 1: last episode, Goodbye Michael. What do you remember about shooting that? Well,
Speaker 1: the biggest thing I remember, first of all, it was
Speaker 1: just so emotional, But that was what was interesting about it.
Speaker 1: You probably remember this too. Every time we were going
Speaker 1: into a scene, especially towards the second half of the week,
Speaker 1: it was that feeling of like this is our last
Speaker 1: scene with with Steve this group actors, and we would
Speaker 1: do the first few takes and it would the would
Speaker 1: be a real sadness about it, and I had to
Speaker 1: constantly go like, remember, we love Steve, we don't necessarily
Speaker 1: like Michael, you know, and it would change the dynamic.
Speaker 1: But I completely got it because I was so emotional too.
Speaker 1: I would kind of falling into that and then going like, wait,
Speaker 1: this can't be everybody's weeping because it's not going to
Speaker 1: track with the whole rest of the show. And that
Speaker 1: also made me very sad for Michael Scott, like they
Speaker 1: like him, but they don't love him, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. But that's very real. You know. You know
Speaker 1: how many times you've got people you work with other
Speaker 1: than you go, oh I'll miss them. You're not like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, I can't live without, you know, the boss,
Speaker 1: or I can't live with that that manager, you know.
Speaker 1: But that was really really hard because everybody wanted to
Speaker 1: break down. Um. I also remember, and I have a picture.
Speaker 1: I've got to find it somewhere. I when we were
Speaker 1: the last day and we're shooting something, I looked over
Speaker 1: and Greg, you know that that the couch when you
Speaker 1: come in the front door there's a couch next to reception.
Speaker 1: I looked and Greg was just literally laying flat out,
Speaker 1: face down on the couch, just with this kind of
Speaker 1: his hands under his head, and it just some everything
Speaker 1: up of just like, we can't believe Steve is going,
Speaker 1: we can't imagine life without Steve Carrell on the set. Um,
Speaker 1: it was tough. Um. The weird thing for me was
Speaker 1: that we shot the very last thing, probably three days
Speaker 1: before the end of the episode, which was the thing
Speaker 1: at the airport with Jenna and Steve, and that got
Speaker 1: me more than I kind of thought. I mean, the
Speaker 1: last day got me, but I was so on task
Speaker 1: doing that airport scene. That was when I was just like,
Speaker 1: you know, and so it takes off the mic and
Speaker 1: just you know, I'm actually getting choked up when I
Speaker 1: talked about it, just seeing them, yeah, Herry going off
Speaker 1: and you don't know what they say, and just her
Speaker 1: hugging him, and it was just it was really it
Speaker 1: was really something. Um, but it really landed for me
Speaker 1: just what the show was and just you felt like
Speaker 1: you were kind of part of history in that moment,
Speaker 1: and I I loved everybody, but I remember saying like
Speaker 1: I'm now I'm not going to direct any more episodes
Speaker 1: because and I love all the episodes after Steve laugh.
Speaker 1: But to me, it's just like that was the group.
Speaker 1: You know. I almost felt like I almost had to
Speaker 1: leave with Michael Scott in a weird not that anybody
Speaker 1: could care, but it was just it. It put us
Speaker 1: such a completion to everything for me that that was
Speaker 1: kind of like that was it? Weirdly, yeah, because you
Speaker 1: didn't come back and direct after No, and I didn't.
Speaker 1: It was not any reason like how dare you? It
Speaker 1: just kind of it was just this really weird natural
Speaker 1: feeling of like, oh there's something, it's over. We're all
Speaker 1: we're all we're all going. I don't know, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I quite know how to say it. It It just felt
Speaker 1: like there was closure for me when that happened. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that said, I wish I kind of kind of wish
Speaker 1: I would have done some of them after because I
Speaker 1: missed you guys so much. I'll tell you one interesting
Speaker 1: thing about about that episode, when she goes to see
Speaker 1: the King's speech. We Bridesmaids it was going to come out,
Speaker 1: but it was coming out in a few months, and
Speaker 1: we almost put Bridesmaids up on the Marquee, but we
Speaker 1: all decided, well, what if a bombs so, so we
Speaker 1: didn't do it. Really yeah, yeah, that's so funny. So
Speaker 1: she almost snuck in to see bridesmace Um well, and
Speaker 1: obviously Bridesmaids was huge and brought Ellie to a whole
Speaker 1: new level. And really then from changing the face of
Speaker 1: television comedy, you literally changed the gender of no of
Speaker 1: American movie comedy with that movie as well. I mean
Speaker 1: that was groundbreaking in its own way right now. I
Speaker 1: mean it was it was what I had always wanted
Speaker 1: to do. I I love, you know, female lead comedy,
Speaker 1: and you know, I would just for years, after Freaks
Speaker 1: and Geeks and before it even pitch ideas that were
Speaker 1: female centric, and it just you know, oh, you can't
Speaker 1: do that, you know. Okay, I guess they know more
Speaker 1: than I do about in show biz and ifinally go like,
Speaker 1: well wait, why can't you you know? But it was
Speaker 1: really you know, Judd doing Knocked Up and saying to Kristen,
Speaker 1: you're great, write your own script, and then they came
Speaker 1: up with that that idea because I was at that
Speaker 1: table read back in two thousand seven when it was
Speaker 1: just you know, untitled wedding movie and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: and then three years later we actually got to do
Speaker 1: it right well the final um very quickly. What do
Speaker 1: you feel like the legacy of the show is gosh,
Speaker 1: you know, it's a show that you just want to
Speaker 1: watch over and over again. I mean there's a few
Speaker 1: shows like that in my life. Taxi was always that way. Um,
Speaker 1: all in the Family is always that way. But the
Speaker 1: Office is always gonna be that because it's just comfort food,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's a very it's so funny, but
Speaker 1: it's so relaxing to sit with these people. The tone
Speaker 1: of the show is very relaxed. I love the fact
Speaker 1: that we didn't have any score, no music on the show.
Speaker 1: You know, our sound mixes always about like where do
Speaker 1: we put the phone ringing? Like we're just always placing
Speaker 1: phones ringing in the background and it just becomes this
Speaker 1: really low key, relaxing, happy place that you can go to.
Speaker 1: And every episode there's something several things in it you're like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is my favorite thing. Is my
Speaker 1: favorite thing? You know, there's always you know, money part
Speaker 1: pytheon the Holy Grails one of my favorite movies, because
Speaker 1: every scene that comes up, you're like, oh wait, this
Speaker 1: is my favorite scene. Oh wait, this is my favorite thing, right,
Speaker 1: And that's what this show is, everything that comes up
Speaker 1: because you go, like, you love these characters and you
Speaker 1: remember these moments and you can watch them over and
Speaker 1: over again because they're not sweaty and they're not trying
Speaker 1: too hard, and they're not joke joke, joke, They're just
Speaker 1: behavioral and beautiful and relatable, not intimidating, and it just
Speaker 1: makes you feel good about your life, and it makes
Speaker 1: you feel good about other people, you know, it really
Speaker 1: makes you so like, this makes you tolerant of other
Speaker 1: people in a weird way because you're watching such a
Speaker 1: such different group of folks that have no reason to
Speaker 1: be together other than the fact that they are trapped
Speaker 1: within this building in this situation much like school. You know,
Speaker 1: the only reason you're there because you all live in
Speaker 1: the same area and that's why you're there. You don't
Speaker 1: choose to be there, and so there's just something very
Speaker 1: lovely about that. And I think that you know, people
Speaker 1: will be watching the show for you know, as long
Speaker 1: as the planet exists. Well, Paul, you're I mean, seriously,
Speaker 1: I know this sounds so crazy, but you really are
Speaker 1: one of the greatest comedic geniuses that I have ever met.
Speaker 1: Your contribution not only on this show, but in all
Speaker 1: the work that you've done is such high quality. You're
Speaker 1: such a good caring person as well, so you're as
Speaker 1: smart as you are kind. So thank you one, thank
Speaker 1: you coming in and sitting down with me and um
Speaker 1: it's always always my pleasure to see you and YouTube. Brian,
Speaker 1: You're the greatest. Remember where we first met Arrested Development exactly,
Speaker 1: you were so funny and then Mitch wouldn't let you
Speaker 1: do your bit because you literally like like really lecherous guy,
Speaker 1: and so I was felt bad. So when I finally
Speaker 1: got to work with you again on The Office, was like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, And let me just say also, everything you've
Speaker 1: done is so brilliant. I still laugh every time I
Speaker 1: think of Michael's a genius. That makes me laugh so hard.
Speaker 1: From that episode that's one of our most undersung episodes
Speaker 1: to the Surplus. So anyway, I can't stop talking about
Speaker 1: the Office. I'm going to get out of here, right,
Speaker 1: Thank you. Thanks all right, folks, That is it for today.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much to Paul for join me. I
Speaker 1: know how busy you are. It is such an honor
Speaker 1: and a delight to chat with you, so thank you,
Speaker 1: and to all my listeners, thank you for tuning in.
Speaker 1: As always, please let me know what you thought of
Speaker 1: the episode from today in the reviews. It means so
Speaker 1: much to hear from you and that is absolutely the
Speaker 1: best way to reach me and my team. We will
Speaker 1: be back, same bad time, same bad place next week
Speaker 1: and have a great one everybody. The office. Deep Dive
Speaker 1: is hosted and executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside
Speaker 1: our executive producer, Lang Lee. Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer,
Speaker 1: our producer is Adam Massias, our associate producer is Emily Carr,
Speaker 1: and our assistant editor is diego Topia. My main man
Speaker 1: in the booth is Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble
Speaker 1: and Squeak, performed by my great friend Creed Bratton, and
Speaker 1: the episode was mixed by seth Olandscape