WEBVTT - ZONE 7: Inside the Boston Strangler Case 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:13.360 The Boston Strangler gripped a community. From nineteen sixty two 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:18.120 to nineteen sixty four, at least eleven women were found 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:23.800 murdered in the Boston city limits and surrounding area. Albert 0:00:23.880 --> 0:00:29.560 DeSalvo confessed to the eleven crops. He was murdered in prison. Later, 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:34.880 the family of Mary Sullivan got DNA from her exhumed body. 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:36.519 Two DNA tests. 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.400 One was taken from the exhumed remains of Mary Sullivan 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:43.600 and the exhumed remains of Albert de Salvo. The DNA 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:47.640 found inside Mary's body did not match Alpert de Salvo. 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:53.159 A decade later, the Boston Police Department conducted DNA testing 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:56.760 on a blanket that was found inside Mary Sullivan's apartment, 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:01.639 and that didn't match the DNA of a bloodline relative 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:02.680 of Albert to Selbum. 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:07.840 When I got involved in twenty ten, that's kind of 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:12.600 what we said, Hey, you know, you've got a family 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:16.480 here that got DNA from their relative, Mary Sullivan. They've 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:20.120 done half the work for you. Exhume him, cross check it, 0:01:20.400 --> 0:01:23.800 and that's it. Then in twenty thirteen, three years later, 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:28.319 that's what they allegedly did. They got a water bottle 0:01:28.360 --> 0:01:34.000 from a nephew and then exhumed Albert DeSalvo and said 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:36.480 there was a match. But y'all listen to me. Now. 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:41.880 We have a guest today. And when I tell you 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:44.600 nobody knows this case better, I don't think anybody knows 0:01:44.640 --> 0:01:48.520 this case better. I met our guests in two thousand 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:51.680 and nine, and at that time we talked about the 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:55.880 geographical area of the crime. We talked about DNA tapes, 0:01:56.520 --> 0:02:00.840 families working on the case. You know. I went to 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:04.080 Boston so that I could meet with him and meet 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:07.440 with the children of the lead detective. I've even talked 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:09.880 to Flee Bailey about this case when he was alive. 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:16.600 And I'm just so excited today because you are going 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:18.440 to be able to hear this story like you've never 0:02:18.480 --> 0:02:25.760 heard it ever and again for us. In twenty ten, 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:29.880 after I met with our guest, Kasey Sherman, and I'm 0:02:29.880 --> 0:02:32.200 going to get to his intro in a minute, I 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.880 met with the kids that were the sons of the 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.760 lead detective. They allowed me to see their dad's in 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:42.560 tire case file. There was really no other option, in 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:47.320 my opinion, than to take the DNA from Mary Sullivan 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:49.919 and cross check it with Albert Salvo. That was it. 0:02:51.120 --> 0:02:53.760 Forget whether or not he admitted to it. Forget what 0:02:54.040 --> 0:02:57.360 each family thought. That to me was the easiest plan. 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:04.360 I had an opportunity to go to Boston. Number one. 0:03:04.360 --> 0:03:07.359 It's a great town. It's fantastic town. And when you've 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:10.400 got somebody like Casey Sherman, who is a New York 0:03:10.440 --> 0:03:14.320 Times best selling author, y'all, He's written over thirteen books. 0:03:14.720 --> 0:03:18.200 Two of them are my favorite books of all time, 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:21.760 one being The Finest Hour that was made into a 0:03:21.840 --> 0:03:25.880 motion picture with Casey Afflak and Chris Pine. The second 0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:30.080 one Boston Straw, that was also made into a film, 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:34.040 Patriot's Day with Mark Wahlberg. So when I tell you 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:37.640 this man can tell a story, honey, he can tell 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:42.960 a story factually but not losing the heart of it. Y'all, 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:47.440 remember the bombing at the Boston Marathon. Casey Sherman is 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:50.480 the one that came up with Boston Straw. He wrote 0:03:50.520 --> 0:03:53.760 about it as only a son of that town could. 0:03:53.920 --> 0:03:59.040 I'm telling you gifted, brilliant. But when I met with him, 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:03.560 he says, Okay, you know, come here, we'll talk about it. 0:04:03.800 --> 0:04:06.280 I will meet with you. But he didn't just meet 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:09.600 with me. He said, Yeah, let your students read the 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:15.400 book Arose from Mary that he wrote. Now, Casey Sherman again, y'all. 0:04:15.400 --> 0:04:18.719 He's a writer. He's written for Time Magazine, Esquire, The 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:23.560 Washington Post, the Boston Harold. He is a family first person. 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.440 He is gifted, he is smart, he's a storyteller. But 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:30.880 I'm going to tell you he's also one of the 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:37.520 most devoted investigative reporters I've ever dealt with. So I 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:41.599 just want to welcome him to his own seven. Casey Sherman, 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:45.240 thank you, Thank you for spending any time at all 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:49.520 with us, and before you even really get rolling, thank 0:04:49.560 --> 0:04:53.360 you for telling this case like nobody else can. 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:54.720 Oh, CHERYLT. 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:57.000 I appreciate you having me on the show today, and 0:04:57.680 --> 0:04:59.719 you know, I'm very excited to talk to you and 0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:02.120 talk your white audience about, you know, one of the 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:04.239 biggest cases in the history of American crime. 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:07.400 And you know, I remember our first meeting. You were like, Hey, 0:05:07.920 --> 0:05:10.800 meet me at the you know, Prudential building. We're going 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:14.800 to have lunch at Legal Seafood. I have never had 0:05:14.839 --> 0:05:18.440 a more sophisticated lunch with any meeting person on a 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.599 gold case. Best clam chowder I've ever had in my life. 0:05:22.360 --> 0:05:26.080 But you know, I found you to be so open 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:30.560 and so willing to share and so just upfront with 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:33.159 this is what needs to happen on this case, and 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.000 you cannot look at it black and white. You told 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:39.440 me that then, even though I was like, Casey, look 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:43.279 sitting with you, you have convinced me it's not Albert 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.039 de Salvo. But when I sit with the sons of 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:49.800 the lead detective, I'm convinced it was Albert de Salvo. 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:54.800 So again for me, let's cross check that DNA. But 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.040 here's what happened, y'all. I'm just gonna tell y'all straight up. 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:03.080 I followed Casey after that, became a huge fan because 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:05.520 of the way he writes and the way he tells stories. 0:06:07.839 --> 0:06:12.800 And it's undeniable when you sit with him on any case, 0:06:13.000 --> 0:06:17.520 the bombing, no matter what he's talking about, he's gonna 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:21.359 captivate you. But again, Boston Strangler, we did what we 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:25.080 did the Cold Case Institute. We were satisfied. We moved 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:33.320 on until Casey Sherman, we're speaking at a conference. You're 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:35.400 speaking ahead of me. So I thought I'm gonna go 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:37.760 to his talk. This will be fun. I can't wait 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:44.440 to see, and you freaking knocked me out. I could 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.919 hardly even concentrate that I had to speak next for 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:50.080 wanting to hear every word coming out of your mouth. 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.479 So again, today means a lot to me, because in 0:06:53.520 --> 0:06:56.479 any cold case, y'all, there's gonna be twist, there's gonna 0:06:56.480 --> 0:06:59.680 be turns, there's gonna be things. You don't know. What 0:06:59.680 --> 0:07:05.160 I think fault was black and white might not be so, Casey, 0:07:05.440 --> 0:07:08.320 Why don't you take us just a little bit of 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:10.880 background of how you got involved with Mary's case and 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.000 then what you did with it and kind of where 0:07:13.520 --> 0:07:14.600 we're headed today. 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:16.320 No happy to Sherylyn. 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:20.840 You know, as an investigative reporter, you're always learning new information, 0:07:21.360 --> 0:07:26.320 and I think that is the responsibility of an investigative journalist, 0:07:26.880 --> 0:07:30.760 of an investigator, to continue to pour over evidence because 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.400 there might be something that you missed that somebody else missed, 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.640 that might make that tangible connection that hadn't been made 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.440 years prior. So the reason why I got involved in 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:42.520 this case, cheryln as you know, but for your audience, 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.000 my aunt, nineteen year old Mary Sullivan was you know, 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:49.520 for much of history, was considered the youngest and final 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:53.720 victim of the Boston Strangler case. She was nineteen years old. 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:57.760 She was murdered Insider apartment in Beacon Hill, one of 0:07:57.800 --> 0:08:03.080 the safest places in Boston, on Janie fourth, nineteen sixty four. Now, Cheryl, 0:08:03.120 --> 0:08:05.559 I didn't even know my aunt Mary. I was born 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:09.400 in nineteen sixty nine, five years after she was killed, 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.920 but I knew know the whole that her murder had 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:17.520 left in my Irish Catholic family. Murder is multi generational, 0:08:17.880 --> 0:08:21.240 so it has a ripple effect going down generations. And 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:25.640 my mother was seventeen when Mary was murdered nineteen sixty four, 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:32.720 and she kept this, these questions that she had about 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:36.400 the guilt or innocence of Albert ta Salvo for several years. 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:40.160 And I remember seeing the Boston Strangler movie, the first 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:42.560 one with Tony Curtis and Henry Fonda, when I was 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.280 a teenager about to go to journalism school, and I 0:08:45.320 --> 0:08:47.360 thought I knew the story. So I asked my mother 0:08:47.640 --> 0:08:50.040 to tell me about Mary the next day, and she 0:08:50.160 --> 0:08:52.720 said that she had doubts about the guilt or innocence 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:56.959 of Albert Tsalvo because not only was Mary my mother's sister, 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.959 Mary was my mother's best friend, and they had planned 0:09:00.080 --> 0:09:02.160 to live their lives together. They were going to grow 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:05.439 old together as sisters, and all that was stolen from 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:09.120 my mother. So at that very moment, you know, I 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.240 made it my mission to dig into this case and 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:16.640 take me where the evidence led me to be able 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:20.200 to kind of find out what really happened during those 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:23.800 years in the nineteen sixties. And for years, you know, 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:28.680 as I was researching this case, in literally interviewing every 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:32.160 key witness that was still alive, including many of the 0:09:32.240 --> 0:09:35.480 murder suspects, the one key piece of evidence that had 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:39.880 always been missing Cheryl was Albert Tsalvo's confession. He had 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:43.559 confessed to the murders. He was already incarcerated for unrelated 0:09:43.600 --> 0:09:48.240 crimes in nineteen sixty five, and nobody could corroborate or 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:52.240 contradict the confessions because nobody had ever heard them publicly before. 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.480 In fact, they had been stolen from the evidence flocker 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:58.920 at the Boston Police Department, and they went missing for 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:03.080 forty years until I tracked them down, and they're sixty 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:07.760 hours worth. They're now the subject of a brand new 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:12.679 documentary on Hulu Peacock called The Boston strangler unheard confession 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:15.800 and for the first time the viewers can actually listen 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:19.680 to Albert T. Salvo talking about these murders in detail. 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:23.520 The question I had was was he giving correct information 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:28.400 in his confessions? And absolutely he was not. He was 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:32.040 confessing to events that never happened. And I'm so glad, Cheryl, 0:10:32.080 --> 0:10:35.840 that you mentioned DNA because in two thousand, not only 0:10:35.840 --> 0:10:40.040 did I have the confession tape, which to me exonerated 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:43.160 Albert de Salvo from at least the Boston strangments. He 0:10:43.280 --> 0:10:45.680 was a bad guy. He was a sexual predator, he 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:48.040 was a con man, he was a thief. What was 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:52.600 he a killer? I then exhumed my aunt Mary's remains 0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:56.360 for DNA testing, and I also exhumed the remains of 0:10:56.400 --> 0:11:00.559 Albert de Salvo for DNA testing. I've actually held Albert 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:03.840 de Salvo sculling my hand, Cheryl. That's how close you 0:11:03.880 --> 0:11:06.679 know I got to this case. And we were able 0:11:06.760 --> 0:11:11.800 to find DNA evidence of Mary's killer inside her body. 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:14.960 And when I say we, Cheryl, I'm talking about doctor 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:18.480 Henry Lee, I'm talking about doctor Michael Biden. I'm talking 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:22.640 about doctor Professor James Stars. Rather, these are the top 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:25.920 friends of investigators in the world that worked on this 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:28.520 case and they found the killers of DNA and it 0:11:28.559 --> 0:11:30.400 did not match Albert to Salva. 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:32.960 Let me go back with one thing, because I do 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.680 want my audience to know this. It is not unusual 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:43.000 in high profile cases and unknown cases that things go missing. 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:47.160 A lot of times, a detective or somebody else associated 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.600 with the case or that has access to an evident 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.760 troom may take something. They may think they're going to 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:54.480 write a book, they may think they're going to use 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:57.400 it at the academy for training. They may take it 0:11:57.440 --> 0:12:00.360 because it's a part of American history and they want it. 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:04.640 It's not uncommon for things to get misplaced, taken, or stolen. 0:12:05.320 --> 0:12:07.440 So I just want that out there. That is true. 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.880 It's not uncommon, Sheryl, but it is illegal. And you 0:12:10.920 --> 0:12:14.000 know this was the evidence in the strangle. The case 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:16.360 wasn't taken for future research. 0:12:16.360 --> 0:12:21.920 No, I understand. I understand. And the reason I laughed 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.079 is because the way you said that is just so 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:27.360 succinct and so correct. I mean, obviously, you should never 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:31.720 take evidence, no matter what your logic may be. You 0:12:31.800 --> 0:12:34.400 may think, hey, this could help you know, show young 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:36.840 detectives a better way, the wrong way, a right way, 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:40.840 you know. But you can copy something, you can you know, 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.040 make a prop. You don't have to take the actual 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:46.960 evidence of things. So here's the thing casey two with me, 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:51.559 you're putting in not just the work, but you're doing 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:58.120 it scientifically, using no question the best in the country. 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:01.680 I mean, doctor Boden hands down no reason to even 0:13:01.880 --> 0:13:06.720 question his credentials. So you know, you're not just going 0:13:06.960 --> 0:13:10.000 to your best friend from college, Fred, I mean, you 0:13:10.080 --> 0:13:13.000 are literally going to the best that there is to 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:15.960 make sure that you have the most correct information. 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:16.920 Absolutely, you know. 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.880 I mean you always want to bring people in to 0:13:19.960 --> 0:13:23.240 an investigation, those people that have skill sets that you 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.000 don't have. And certainly I did not have a background 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.720 in forensic examination. So I reached out to the best 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.240 in the business who did have that background and that expertise, 0:13:33.679 --> 0:13:36.439 and they were willing to work on the case pro 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.439 bono because they didn't want to be beholden to whether 0:13:40.480 --> 0:13:42.520 it was my family or the family of Albert Salve 0:13:42.600 --> 0:13:46.800 or anybody else. They wanted to be beholden to the truth. 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:48.040 And that's exactly what they did. 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:52.280 Same with the Colgate Institute. We don't accept money from families. 0:13:52.360 --> 0:13:54.680 We're going to give our opinion, and that's it, based 0:13:54.720 --> 0:13:57.600 on what we find what we believe to be the 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:02.440 most likely to move this case forward. The solvability factors 0:14:02.480 --> 0:14:08.440 are either there or they're not. When you got the 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.480 DNA back and they said it does not match Albert Sullivan, 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:16.240 was anything done with that DNA like ancestry. 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:19.880 Well, here's the thing, So that DNA this was before 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:23.200 ancestry dot com was even a thing at that time, 0:14:23.280 --> 0:14:26.080 or twenty three and meters. This is two thousand. We're 0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:28.480 at the cutting edge of forensic science at that time. 0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:33.120 And the DNA that was found on my aunt's remains 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:38.200 matched the DNA of the actual prime suspect in her 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:42.400 murder from nineteen sixty four. That man was not Albert DeSalvo, 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:46.320 but he was a young nineteen year old Boston University 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:51.320 student who was now living in northern New England. And 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:55.760 I was able to get his DNA surreptitiously and provide 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:59.520 it to the forensic experts and they ran the testing 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:00.880 came back in match. 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:04.400 Now you have all this information, you're getting pushed back 0:15:04.440 --> 0:15:07.240 from law enforcement, You're getting pushed back from the family 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:11.040 of the lead detective but you stay the course. I mean, 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:14.120 you keep coming even though they've had a press conference 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.479 that they've solved it, that Albert Defalvo's the Boston strangler. 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:21.800 But you're not done. So kind of where did you go? 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.320 You've got this DNA. It's not a match. You've got 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:28.000 now a match of one of the other suspects. What 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:30.200 is happening? What are you doing with all this? 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.280 So you know, for the prime suspect and Mary's murder, 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.440 what I did is I owed him his story. I 0:15:37.520 --> 0:15:38.320 knew where he was. 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:40.800 He was actually working at a golf pro at a 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:44.800 golf resort in northern New England. Had I gone to 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.200 his home, he could have taken a gun or a 0:15:47.320 --> 0:15:50.800 knife or something and you know, done bodily harm to 0:15:50.880 --> 0:15:53.640 me and goodbye, Casey Sherman. So I had to confront 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:55.920 him in a public place. I learned that he was 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.040 a golf pro. So I booked a golf lesson under 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:01.840 an assumed name and I met him on the golf course. 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:04.600 I was wearing a disguise. I took the disguise off 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.720 and it was like the ghost of Christmas past had 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:10.680 come back to haunt him. And we spoke for about 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:13.240 an hour, he gave me his alibi that I was 0:16:13.280 --> 0:16:17.800 able to eventually disprove, and I walked away that day 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:20.680 knowing that in my heart I had found the killer 0:16:20.720 --> 0:16:24.320 of Mary Sullivan, my aunt. Now did Boston or Massachusetts 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:27.280 law enforcement want to hear that? Certainly they did not. 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.920 What people don't realize and you do, Cheryl, is that 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.560 Albert Disavo was never even charged with any of the 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:39.400 Boston strangler murders. They're still considered open but not active today. 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:43.360 What I've learned subsequent to that time, Cheryl, and this 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.720 is the most frightening discovery of all, is that you 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:51.280 mentioned eleven strangling victims at the beginning of the show. Well, 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:55.920 I now can point to at least forty seven women 0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:02.720 strangled with Boston strangler stuff, murder techniques and tools now 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:06.720 across a span of years from nineteen sixty two to 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:11.640 nineteen sixty nine, across the United States. Now, people compare 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:15.280 the Boston strangler case to Jack the Ripper, but I 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.520 think it's more comparable to the Salem witch trials. And 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:21.760 what I mean by that, Cheryl, is these murders created 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:26.960 a hysteria amongst men in the United States who wanted 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:31.360 to commit Boston strangler style murders. The most terrifying thing 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:33.960 of all, Cheryl, is that these murders weren't committed by 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.000 one man. They were committed by over a dozen men 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:38.720 across eleven states. 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.480 All Right, I told y'all he was going to knock 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:45.040 you out. So let me ask you. Of the forty seven, 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:51.760 do you believe five twenty might be copycats? Do you 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:55.399 think it might be Hey, somebody realized I want to 0:17:55.440 --> 0:17:58.359 start killing women. There's no better place than Boston right now. 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.159 If I use Stockings, just strangler, they'll blame it on 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:01.600 that guy. 0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.879 So Boston was the epicenter for sure, Cheryl. And there 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:08.879 were actually more victims in Boston than just eleven. I 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.280 always thought my aunt, nineteen year old Mary Sullivan, was 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.840 the youngest victim, when in fact, the youngest victim was 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:19.080 only five years old, a young girl named Ellen Gamage, 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:23.600 who was abducted from a playground, strangled, assault, and then 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:27.160 left in a blueberry patch forty miles south of Boston. 0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:30.600 And while that murder was happening, Albert Salva was already 0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:35.399 incarcerated on unrelated crimes, confessing to the Boston strangler case. 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:38.280 You had a number of teenagers younger than my aunt 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:42.639 Mary murdered all over New England, and the newspapers and 0:18:42.680 --> 0:18:47.080 the police departments at the time were investigating these homicides. 0:18:47.440 --> 0:18:52.879 Then these homicides start to happen outside of New England, Oakland, California, 0:18:53.400 --> 0:19:00.359 Upstate Michigan, Austin, Texas, Hollywood, California, Cincinnati, Ohio, were five 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:04.560 women were strangled in nineteen sixty six. There is actually 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:08.159 a Cincinnati strangler. If you do your Google research, you 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:12.960 can come up with all the newspaper reports at the time, Pensacola, Florida, 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:18.560 even Paris, France. It was an hysteria, a strangle mania 0:19:18.640 --> 0:19:23.040 if you will, that took hold of men, you know, 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:25.880 who wanted to do harm against women. So, yes, most 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:28.160 of these stranglings were copycats. 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:33.760 Okay, so we're looking at multiple people, multiple states, even 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:39.200 countries that knew enough of the Boston strangler's mo because 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:41.520 it was in the newspaper, it was celebrated, and. 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:45.679 Youreraise a good point. Now, today's news media does not 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:49.919 get that explicit in their reporting of homicides because they can't. 0:19:50.240 --> 0:19:53.320 But back in the nineteen sixties, every detail of a 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:58.639 murder was basically reprinted in the newspapers, and oftentimes journalists, 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.000 looking to get a hea line or to have more 0:20:01.040 --> 0:20:05.800 people read their newspapers, would invent information and put it 0:20:05.840 --> 0:20:08.639 in the newspapers. And why I mentioned that is because 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:12.800 when Albert Tsalvo began to confessing to these murders, he 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:17.080 was regurgitating misinformation that had been printed in the newspapers 0:20:17.080 --> 0:20:20.359 at the time. Now, you mentioned the family of the 0:20:20.480 --> 0:20:24.159 lead detective and John Denatally or fildan Itally, who was 0:20:24.520 --> 0:20:26.400 one of the detectives in the strangler case. 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:28.440 He wasn't the lead detective. He was just one of 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:29.199 the detectives. 0:20:29.440 --> 0:20:31.760 You look at families like that, and I think that 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:36.679 they don't want to necessarily, you know, revisit the past 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:41.360 because their entire you know, family history has been based 0:20:41.760 --> 0:20:46.120 on their loved one catching the Boston Strangler. But that's 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:49.920 a myth. Nobody caught Albert de Salvo. He was already 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:54.000 in jail and he was confessing two crimes that didn't happen. 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:58.760 The person that actually took the interrogation wasn't a seasoned 0:20:58.880 --> 0:21:02.159 investigator at all. His name was John Bottomley, and he 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:07.240 was the assistant Attorney General of Massachusetts John Bottomley's history. 0:21:07.520 --> 0:21:11.360 He'd been an eminent domain lawyer from Massachusetts, a real 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:16.879 estate lawyer, who had no experience ever investigator or investigating 0:21:17.000 --> 0:21:21.000 or interrogating a suspect in any criminal matter. And here 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.320 he is confronting what, you know, some believed at the 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:28.240 time was the most dangerous serial killer in American history. 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:32.560 So how did Albert DeSalvo get all this information? I've 0:21:32.560 --> 0:21:35.159 heard it from you, but I want the audience to 0:21:35.240 --> 0:21:38.960 hear how he started confessing and how he got any 0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:39.879 of the facts. 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:42.960 Well, you mentioned definitely Bailey, who you know had been 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:46.920 one of my arch nemesis, you know, during the course 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:50.560 of my investigative career. But we actually later became dear friends, 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:54.440 and I wrote the prologue to Lee's last book before 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:55.200 he passed away. 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:56.280 Well f Lee. 0:21:56.320 --> 0:22:01.080 Bailey was representing a young, cold hearted killer named George 0:22:01.160 --> 0:22:05.040 Nasser in nineteen sixty four. Nassar was one of the 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:10.280 real Boston stranglers who had in fact murdered maybe four 0:22:10.359 --> 0:22:14.720 to five of the murder victims in the general Boston area, 0:22:15.320 --> 0:22:19.919 and George Nasser was cellmates with Albert Tasalvo and Naser 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:25.040 needed money to support his defense because he thought he 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:27.760 was going to be getting out of prison for murdering 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:31.359 a gas station attendant, so he needed to pay flee Bailey, 0:22:31.400 --> 0:22:33.480 and the only way he could do that was getting 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:37.040 a guy like Albert Tasalvo to confess to the crimes 0:22:37.080 --> 0:22:41.040 because there was what they believed one hundred thousand dollars 0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:46.119 reward for information leading to the Boston strangler arrest, and 0:22:46.200 --> 0:22:49.399 so DeSalvo and Nassar had kind of dollar signs in 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:54.679 their eyes. DeSalvo confessed with information handed to him by Naser. 0:22:55.520 --> 0:22:58.439 He confessed to the crimes and oftentimes went off script 0:22:58.840 --> 0:23:02.320 giving false information in his interrogation, which is one of 0:23:02.320 --> 0:23:04.800 the reasons why he was never charged with any of 0:23:04.880 --> 0:23:07.879 the murders, because they would never have been able to 0:23:08.160 --> 0:23:10.560 convict him in a court of in a criminal court 0:23:10.920 --> 0:23:13.600 because all the information, or most of it, was inaccurate. 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:18.919 Okay, well, you have done the line's share of the 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:25.520 work gathering, collecting, and reporting on this case. What do 0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:29.399 you think is the most critical piece of evidence to 0:23:29.520 --> 0:23:32.840 show there was more than one killer? Just one thing? 0:23:33.880 --> 0:23:36.200 There are several things, you know, not only the DNA 0:23:36.280 --> 0:23:39.600 test of my aunt's remains, but going back to the 0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:43.159 original case files, looking at these cases, going back to 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:47.040 the original reporting and the public statements made by police 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:47.879 at the time. 0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:48.800 I worked with. 0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:54.000 One of the Boston Strangler homicide detectives, Jim Mellon, who 0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:57.720 was adamant that Albert Salvo was not the killer. In fact, 0:23:57.720 --> 0:23:59.679 a Salvo told him he was not the killer, and 0:23:59.720 --> 0:24:03.280 he had serious suspects in at least six of these 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:06.560 Boston homicides. Now, as I mentioned, there are dozens of 0:24:06.640 --> 0:24:12.640 unsolved homicides across the United States, Boston Strangler type murders 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:16.639 that still need to be judicated and solved. There's no 0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:20.960 statute limitation on murder Cheryl, so these cases are still 0:24:21.040 --> 0:24:24.480 open and should be looked at with a clear eye. 0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:27.800 I would press your audience to just go on to 0:24:28.119 --> 0:24:33.800 NBC Peacock or the USA Network and watch Boston Strangler 0:24:34.480 --> 0:24:38.320 Unheard confession and here DeSalvo in his own words, and 0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:41.960 make your own judgment on whether or not he was 0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:44.920 confessing to events that never happened, or whether he was 0:24:44.960 --> 0:24:45.399 the killer. 0:24:46.080 --> 0:24:49.520