1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:02,599 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 2: The remains of a little topboy, three year old Elijah View. 3 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:20,280 Speaker 2: A deer hunter stumbled upon this little boy's remains. This 4 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 2: after we know for a fact that mommy sends little elies. 5 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 2: You just three to basically a torture camp with her 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:34,159 Speaker 2: convicted fellon lover where he vows to quote make the 7 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 2: boy respect me and turn him into a man. Well, 8 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 2: now he's dead. Imagine a tap boy three years old? 9 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 2: Want to see this tall his little skeletonized remains found 10 00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 2: by deer hunters. I'm Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. 11 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us. 12 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 3: Katrina Bauer drops all for three year old son at 13 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 3: boyfriend Jesse Veng's home so the convicted felon can teach 14 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 3: the three year old Todd how to be a man. 15 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:16,400 Speaker 3: Where is Elijah. 16 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 1: How to be a man? 17 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 2: Joining me an all star panel to make sense of 18 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: what we know right now, But first I want you 19 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 2: to hear what Two Rivers Police Chief Ben Minor has 20 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 2: to say. 21 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 4: Last Saturday, Sheriff Hartwag called me immediately upon learning his 22 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,560 Speaker 4: deputies were responding to investigate a report of skeletal remains 23 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 4: found by someone in the town of Two Rivers with 24 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 4: night falling near the entire area was secured well. A 25 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 4: variety of resources were gathered to investigate. Ultimately, a forensic 26 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 4: anthropologist with the Wisconsin State Crime Laboratories was able to 27 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 4: confirm a skull and bones as human remains. 28 00:01:58,440 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 2: And joining us now, anthropologist and director of the Florida 29 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 2: Institute for a Forensic Anthropology and Applied Science. But before 30 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 2: I go to our esteemed guest, doctor Aaron Kimberly straight 31 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:18,399 Speaker 2: out to news anchor investigative reporter WBAYTV Brittany Schmidt joining us, 32 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 2: tell me about how the deer hunters found this little 33 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 2: boy's remains and war Elijah's remains skeletonized. 34 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 5: Yeah, according to the police, he skeletal remains. We are 35 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,280 Speaker 5: waiting for authorities to give us a little bit more 36 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 5: information about that. It does make sense that he was 37 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 5: found by a hunter. We do have a hunting season 38 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 5: coming up, so the hunter was out looking over its property. 39 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 5: This is a very densely covered area. We know that 40 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 5: authorities have searched this area plenty of times before as 41 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 5: the seasons changed, things come up. They even talk to 42 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 5: farmers about tilling their land. So it made sense that 43 00:02:58,400 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 5: it was found by a hunters. 44 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:10,080 Speaker 2: Difficult for me to I guess, understand or connect the 45 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: photos of this beautiful three year old little boy, Elijah 46 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 2: Vieu to telling farmers to see what quote comes up 47 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 2: when they tilled their land. Now that's the blanket he 48 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:28,119 Speaker 2: was last seen with, the red, black and white plaid blanket. 49 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:35,240 Speaker 2: Mommy sending Elijah, her little boy to go be with 50 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: her convicted fellon boyfriend to quote teach him respect. Let 51 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 2: me go straight out to doctor Aaron Kimberley, but first 52 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: listen to this. 53 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 4: The remains were found on private property by a person 54 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 4: getting his land ready for the hunting season, a thick 55 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 4: wooded area with heavy underbrush just to the north of Manitou. 56 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 4: This location is just over three miles northwest of where 57 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 4: he originally was reported missing. This area had been searched 58 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 4: several times, as had been reported by law enforcement searches, 59 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 4: by private searches by the landowner, by air, and with 60 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 4: various search and rescue teams. 61 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: Which raises the specter. 62 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 2: Was Elijah VU's body his remains there the entire time 63 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 2: and searchers missed him, or was his body moved after 64 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:34,760 Speaker 2: the area had been searched and planted there. We don't know, 65 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 2: But one thing I do know is I've got an expert, 66 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 2: a renowned forensic anthropologist, director of the Florida Institute for 67 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 2: Forensic Anthropology and Applied Science, a University of South Florida, 68 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 2: and author of Skeletal Trauma Identification of Skeletal Injuries resulting 69 00:04:54,400 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 2: from Human Rights Abuse and Armed Conflict. You can find 70 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,400 Speaker 2: her at Aaron generally dot com. 71 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: Doctor Kimberly, thank you for being with us. 72 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 2: Explain to me why at the get go these remains 73 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 2: could not be positively identified as being three year old 74 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 2: top boy Elijah View. 75 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: So what did the. 76 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 2: Anthropologists have to go through to make that identification. 77 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 6: Well, initially they're going to collect all of the remains. 78 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:28,039 Speaker 6: It's really important that the scene is excavated properly, and 79 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 6: I was happy to hear in the police chief's report 80 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 6: it sounded like they slowed everything down when it was 81 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 6: first when he was first found, brought in the right 82 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 6: experts because that context is going to give you so 83 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 6: much information about the manner of death, and in a 84 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 6: difficult case like this, that's going to be really important. 85 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 6: So the anthropologist will ultimately excavate even though the remains 86 00:05:52,200 --> 00:05:54,640 Speaker 6: are on the surface. It's a term we use because 87 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 6: you think about the changing seasons, there's leaf litter, there's 88 00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 6: vegetation growing up through them. I'm not surprised that they 89 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 6: were missed initially through some of the early searches. That's 90 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 6: very common at the point at which they found him. Basically, 91 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 6: to search you have to be down on your hands 92 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 6: and kneeds with a trowel going through the underbrush, and 93 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 6: so's that's sadly what happens in those cases. 94 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,039 Speaker 1: Well, now, doctor Aaron Cimberly, several questions. 95 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 2: Number one, why are you not surprised that his body 96 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 2: his remains were missed during the earlier searches of this 97 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 2: very heavily wooded area. 98 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 6: Well, you think about when he first went missing in February. 99 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 6: I don't know what the snowfall was for Wisconsin last spring, 100 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 6: but it's quite likely that his body was first covered 101 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 6: with snow and then one spring, you know, emerges and 102 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 6: all of that underbrush blooms. They would likely become pretty 103 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 6: hidden in that brush, and so unless you're you know, 104 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 6: down on the ground with a trowel, the search is 105 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 6: really incomplet You think about when a child or anyone 106 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,680 Speaker 6: goes missing those early searches, you're looking for the person 107 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 6: alive wandering off, You're looking for a whole body, and 108 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 6: so by summer you would have had very small skilled 109 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 6: remains basically camouflaged, you know now the color of the 110 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 6: soil and the brush around it. 111 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:22,400 Speaker 2: To Karen Stark, a renowned psychologist, TV radio trauma expert 112 00:07:22,760 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 2: at Karenstark dot com, Karen, thank you for being with us. 113 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 2: I'm really, as I said, having a hard time reconciling 114 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 2: these photos of three year old top boy Elijah Vie 115 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: with what Britney Schmidt from w Bay and doctor Aaron 116 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: Kimerly are saying. Did you hear Kimerly just state that 117 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:49,160 Speaker 2: after many weeks that the remains would take on the 118 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 2: appearance of the brush, the overgrowth. The little boy just 119 00:07:56,120 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: vanished into the leaves and the just it's just hard 120 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 2: for me. I mean, Karen, you were with me raising 121 00:08:06,000 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: the children, and you remember them at age three. 122 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: I mean, they're this big, they are. 123 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:21,040 Speaker 2: Completely defenseless, and thinking about this child's remains blending in 124 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 2: with the foliage, I'm just having a really hard time 125 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 2: reconciling that all those words will be in the same sentence. 126 00:08:29,360 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: Karen's start and think about it, Nancy. 127 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 7: You're talking about a three year old and they're saying 128 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,280 Speaker 7: that she sent him to her boyfriend lover, whoever he was, 129 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 7: because she wanted him to be a man. A three 130 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,439 Speaker 7: year old should be a man. And that's the kind 131 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 7: of unrealistic expectations you find in parents who are neglectful. 132 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:51,400 Speaker 7: We don't know the full story. 133 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: And realistic whoa whoa? Whoa? Unrealistic? What unrealistic to expect 134 00:08:58,920 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: a thirty six. 135 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 2: Month old child to be? Quote a man? What kind 136 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 2: of man? Can I see the convict lover? Let me 137 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: see him? So this is the guy that mommy sends 138 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: her child. Oh, okay him, he's got a wrap sheet 139 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 2: as long as I'm seventy five, and she sends her 140 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 2: tiny taught to him. 141 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:27,000 Speaker 1: I mean what? 142 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:32,160 Speaker 2: And Nancy, he's blaming I'm actually without words, Karen Stark. 143 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 7: He's blaming her. He's saying that it's her fault because 144 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:38,679 Speaker 7: she wanted him to be the one to teach this 145 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 7: boy to be a man and respect him and discipline him. 146 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 7: And this little boy was essentially tortured. 147 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 2: And Mommy, in her maternal wisdom, sends her child her 148 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 2: little baby boy alone with this guy, who I. 149 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 1: Might add has not been charged with murder. 150 00:09:57,440 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 2: Average snowfall Feb eleven inches in two rivers. Listen to 151 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,679 Speaker 2: more of what police chief Minor says. 152 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 4: The remains found by the hunter and recovered by law enforcement. 153 00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 4: We're taking to the Wisconsin Crime Lab for DNA testing 154 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:16,880 Speaker 4: to identify the person. It is with a heavy heart 155 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 4: that I announced to you today those remains were identified 156 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 4: as Elijah Vou With that news and following this briefing, 157 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:27,880 Speaker 4: the Amber alert will be canceled. 158 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 2: To doctor Aaron Kimberley again joining us Frensy anthropologist Doctor Kimberly. 159 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: By this point, let's see there are I believe two. 160 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,960 Speaker 2: Hundred and six bones in the human body, and you 161 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 2: said the area had to be excavated very carefully. 162 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:45,839 Speaker 1: We also heard from a police chief. 163 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:49,560 Speaker 2: Being Minored that the remains by the time law enforcement 164 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 2: got there to this remote area, it was nighttime, so 165 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:56,280 Speaker 2: the area had to be roped off and protected and 166 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 2: a night search ensued. 167 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,640 Speaker 1: Those are really hard. 168 00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:08,280 Speaker 2: I remember watching the night search for Kelly Anthony's remains. 169 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 2: Kelley almost three in a swampy area about ten houses 170 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 2: away from top Mom Casey Anthony's home, and there were tents, 171 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 2: there were bright lights like you'd see at maybe a 172 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 2: movie premiere, shining everywhere. Because you want to get every 173 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 2: one of those two hundred and six bones. Why is 174 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 2: that so critical? And what do you mean by quote excavation? 175 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,440 Speaker 6: Your word so And it's important to remember when we 176 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:41,760 Speaker 6: talk about the skeleton, there's two hundred and six bones 177 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 6: in the adult body. Children have many more because their 178 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,600 Speaker 6: bones are growing and fused together. They fuse together throughout childhood. 179 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 6: So a little guy who's about three to four years 180 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,439 Speaker 6: old is going to have over three hundred bones in 181 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:55,000 Speaker 6: his body. 182 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:59,480 Speaker 1: But what is wow really critical. 183 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 6: For what I use the sort of excavation is to 184 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 6: basically what they're going to do is remove all of 185 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 6: the top soil, the leaf litter, the vegetation, and try 186 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 6: to keep all of those little bones, all the remains intact, 187 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 6: and any other evidence that might be there, if there's clothing, 188 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 6: you know. 189 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 2: What I'm interpreting what you're saying to me. They move away, 190 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:28,600 Speaker 2: the searchers move away the top soil and the leafs 191 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:33,319 Speaker 2: and the foliage, but they keep it in case there's. 192 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: A tiny little bone in there of some sort. They do. 193 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:39,040 Speaker 6: They'll sift through it using screens. We use two different 194 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 6: sized screens. We sift it twice. 195 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: I mean like a flower sister, Yeah. 196 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 6: Exactly, only larger and you and you put all of 197 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 6: the soil, top soil and debris in there. It's a 198 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 6: very effective method. You can find hair, strands of hair, 199 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 6: for example. So you think about being an outside wooded 200 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:56,960 Speaker 6: area and you're finding things like strands of hair. 201 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:58,359 Speaker 5: That's good recovery. 202 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,199 Speaker 6: But they want they want to preserve that context. 203 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: Doctor Kimberly, You're really amazing. I'm trying to drink in 204 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: every word you're saying, but you seem a. 205 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 2: Little too happy for me when you're describing this process, 206 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 2: because I know you're looking at it like a forensic anthropologist, 207 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 2: right I guess the way I feel when I get 208 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 2: that one shred of evidence that makes a case, and 209 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 2: like a mass murder. 210 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:29,079 Speaker 1: I'm happy. 211 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 2: But right now, as you're talking our New York Control 212 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:41,320 Speaker 2: and was showing photos of Elijah View and I'm having 213 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 2: a hard time taking in what you're saying. As we're 214 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 2: talking about a little talk three years old. I just 215 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 2: remember I could pick the twins up like this and 216 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 2: carry them both around run around and around and around 217 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 2: our apartment when they were three, especially Lucy. 218 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 1: He was born at two pounds. 219 00:14:02,760 --> 00:14:05,600 Speaker 2: But he's just a tiny little slip of a boy, 220 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 2: and I wonder what he endured before. 221 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:13,000 Speaker 1: They're searching for his bounds through a flower sifter. What 222 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: did you call it? It's as we use a sifter. 223 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 6: It's not a flower sifter, but it's an archaeological sifter. 224 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 6: So it has mesh basically and then in different sizes 225 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,479 Speaker 6: about a quarter of an inch, and that allows all 226 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 6: important evidence that's going to ultimately be able to prove, 227 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 6: you know, that he was hurt, that he was murdered, 228 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 6: and be able to get those charges. That's why right now, 229 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 6: I'm sure they're focused on finding that cause of death 230 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 6: and being able to interpret the scene in order to 231 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 6: get the manner of death so that they can turn 232 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,320 Speaker 6: it from a death investigation into, you know, a full 233 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:53,120 Speaker 6: homicide investigation with charges. 234 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 4: What started out as a search for missing boy is 235 00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 4: now a death investigation. Now that we know the location 236 00:15:00,760 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 4: of where Elijah was located off Christy Bob Lane in 237 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 4: Manitou Drive, we asked that anybody with any information, if 238 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:12,040 Speaker 4: you haven't previously provided it or you think it may 239 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 4: be useful in this investigation to please contact law enforcement. 240 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 3: Photos of little Elijah taken at mom's boyfriend's house shows 241 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 3: him blindfolded and bruised on a bed and standing in 242 00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 3: a corner for hours in a soiled diaper. Jesse Vang 243 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 3: claims this is part of his discipline plan. 244 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 8: A deer hunter stumbles upon human skeletal remains on private 245 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 8: property near the Manitoac Scout camp in the Town of 246 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 8: Two Rivers and immediately calls law enforcement. The Town of 247 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 8: Two Rivers in Manitoac County law enforcement has been searching 248 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 8: for now four year old Elijah Vu since he went 249 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 8: missing last February well in the care of his mother's boyfriend. 250 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 2: In the care of his mother's boyfriend, that hardly makes sense. 251 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 2: Straight back out to Britney Schmidt, investigative reporter and anchor 252 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 2: wb a YTV. 253 00:16:11,360 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: Brittany again, thank you for being with us. What can 254 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: you tell me? 255 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:18,560 Speaker 2: And I'd like to point out that the convicted felon 256 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 2: lover of mommy, neither he or Mommy have been charged 257 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 2: with murder. Brittany Schmidt, could you please inform our viewers. Okay, 258 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,160 Speaker 2: everybody sit down, because this is not easy to hear 259 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 2: about the lover's discipline plan for baby Elijah. 260 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:43,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, according to the chrominal complaint. As you mentioned, these 261 00:16:43,480 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 5: are difficult to hear. He's three years old when he's 262 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,920 Speaker 5: sent there to be a man that talks about how 263 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,760 Speaker 5: you can try to change his bad behavior. Some of 264 00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 5: those tactics used were standing in a corner for one 265 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 5: to three hours by himself, either praying or saying the 266 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 5: words I'm sorry mommy. The times where he was threatened 267 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 5: if he wasn't doing that, where he's cold water, Those 268 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 5: things that this little three year old endured when he 269 00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 5: was being taught to be a man. 270 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 2: He was forced to say, I'm sorry, mommy, I'm sorry, mommy, 271 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 2: I'm sorry, mommy, I'm sorry mommy. 272 00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: Over and over and over. And what does it mean? 273 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 2: Karen Stark, renowned psychologists joining us out of Manhattan, that 274 00:17:34,359 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 2: the lover, the convicted fell in lover, would actually take 275 00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 2: pictures of baby Elijah covered in bruises with a blindfold on, 276 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 2: taking pictures of it. 277 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 7: He was proud of what he was doing, Nancy. He 278 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 7: didn't think that there was anything wrong. He was saying 279 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,360 Speaker 7: that this little boy needed to respect him, and he 280 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 7: felt like he shouldn't just fear him, but he should 281 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 7: respect him. Who knows where he got that kind of 282 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 7: boot camp mentality. We're talking about a three year old. 283 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 7: I have no doubt that this was not a problem child. 284 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 7: They just had this idea that there was something that 285 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 7: they needed to do to him, and that's not unusual 286 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 7: for abuse in with little children that they believed. They 287 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 7: had these expectations that have nothing to do with the 288 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 7: behavior actual behavior of the little boy. 289 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:27,919 Speaker 2: I don't think it had anything to do with parental expectations, 290 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:32,040 Speaker 2: because you know, I certainly don't know everything about parenting. 291 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:36,640 Speaker 2: Out to Bill Daily, former FBI and expert in forensic 292 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:41,080 Speaker 2: photography security expert Bill Daily, I just wanted them to 293 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 2: take their bottle and to eat a jar of Gerber's baby. 294 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 1: Food, and to you know, take their naps and learn 295 00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: to crawl and you know, following. 296 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 2: My finger at That's what I wanted them to do 297 00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 2: when they were little babies. I don't know that this 298 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:03,840 Speaker 2: has anything to do with parntal expectations. 299 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,520 Speaker 1: Bill Daily, You've seen. 300 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 2: It all, as have I, and I was looking at 301 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 2: the original criminal complaint on these two pos's technical legal term. 302 00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 2: Now this is the complaint Bill as it relates to 303 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:23,639 Speaker 2: child negligence. Now, the convicted fellow lover Mommy's lover with 304 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 2: the tattoos up to hear not judging, don't care, say said, 305 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 2: he took a nap in the middle of the disciplinary regime, 306 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:36,879 Speaker 2: and he woke up and Elijah was gone. Okay, he's three, 307 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 2: he's covered in bruises, and he's quote gone how many times? 308 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:43,520 Speaker 1: Bill Daily? 309 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 2: I mean, can't they even come up with a news 310 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 2: story just to surprise us. 311 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: I went to sleep and he was gone. 312 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 2: That's second verse, same as the first Bill Daily. 313 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, Nancy, at the heart managing aspect of 314 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:01,960 Speaker 9: this is as you just went through this litany of 315 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 9: really tortures things this little child went through, and then 316 00:20:06,840 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 9: to have him found in a wooded area in skeletal remains, 317 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 9: you know, it's just a little bit further about that. 318 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 1: From an investigative. 319 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:15,639 Speaker 9: Standpoint, there are a couple of things that kind of 320 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 9: jump out at May. One is that assuming that his 321 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 9: remains were there to begin with, right after he perished, 322 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 9: or assuming that he perished before he was left there, 323 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 9: is that they are going to have to expand that 324 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 9: search site even beyond the immediate area where the remains 325 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,400 Speaker 9: were found. Just because it is a wooded area where 326 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 9: outside and there are wild animals, there are other things 327 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 9: that could disturb even those remains. So they're going to 328 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,399 Speaker 9: have to expand that site just to see if there 329 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,919 Speaker 9: are any additional bones or clothing or anything else that 330 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 9: may be available. 331 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: The other thing on the. 332 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 9: Investigative side and show police have already had looked at 333 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 9: it originally probably you know, cell phone tower pings, etc. However, 334 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,439 Speaker 9: this gives them a very much more specific location to 335 00:20:59,520 --> 00:21:02,639 Speaker 9: look for in and around the time of the child's 336 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 9: quote disappearance, and I think that will probably help in 337 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 9: fact if there are any cell phone things we've seen 338 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 9: that as we know in other cases with the gilgolg 339 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,080 Speaker 9: Viach murderer that we've spoken about before, you know, those 340 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:19,320 Speaker 9: type of records in retrospect, knowing a limit more can 341 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 9: be very helpful. Nonetheless, information that people may have in 342 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 9: and around the vicinity of I'm assuming that Bill, yes. 343 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: You already have hit the nail on the head. 344 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,439 Speaker 2: Let me just say again for the record, nobody's charged 345 00:21:32,480 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 2: with murder. Okay, Darryl Cohen, you're the renowned defense attorney. 346 00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: These two idiots. Dare I go that far? 347 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:48,920 Speaker 2: Actually state this in texts, because in this criminal complaint 348 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,720 Speaker 2: they're quoting what these two were saying to each other, 349 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:56,639 Speaker 2: and now the boy's body is found. Look, I'm not 350 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 2: a brain sergeant or a rocket scientist, but I can 351 00:21:58,720 --> 00:21:59,440 Speaker 2: figure this out. 352 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: He still equals four. Cohen. 353 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,400 Speaker 10: This wasn't child neglect, not at all. This was child abuse. 354 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 10: This was an accident where this child was outside it 355 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:14,199 Speaker 10: shouldn't have been. This was I'm sorry, mommy, I'm sorry, mommy. 356 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 10: All of this was done intentionally. Whether or not they 357 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 10: meant to kill him at that point it doesn't matter. 358 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 10: It does matter what type of evidence it will have, 359 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 10: and the state will have to show exactly what they did, 360 00:22:31,119 --> 00:22:34,639 Speaker 10: which is not even one thing that any decent parent 361 00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:35,760 Speaker 10: would ever do. 362 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:41,199 Speaker 3: Ever, just days before Katrina Bauers planning to pick up 363 00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:46,800 Speaker 3: her three year old son, boyfriend Jesse Vang reports him missing. 364 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 3: Thang claims he took a nap and woke up to 365 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:51,120 Speaker 3: find the. 366 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 8: Toddler gone since eleven am February twentieth, when jesse Vang 367 00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 8: called nine one one instead Elijah, who was missing. Searches 368 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 8: for the now four year old child have taken in 369 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 8: wetlands farmland, the West Twin River and a farm waste container. 370 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 8: A month into the search for Elijah, his red and 371 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 8: white plaid blanket was found about three point seven miles 372 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 8: from the home of jesse Vang. The blanket was about 373 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,960 Speaker 8: three miles south of where the skeletal remains were found. 374 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 2: To Brittany Schmidt joining US investigative reporter and anchor WBA 375 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 2: WHITETV Brittany, thank you for being with us. Have you 376 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:32,160 Speaker 2: read this criminal complaint? It is disgusting and paragraph ten 377 00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:37,399 Speaker 2: this is written by the detectives. Of course, police come 378 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 2: through Katrina Bauer and Jesse Vang's cell phones. 379 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 1: Completely contradicting everything they were saying. 380 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 2: But they're talking about a visit of mommy too convicted 381 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 2: fella lover so she could come over for sex. And 382 00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: the boyfriend tells her where you can't see Elijah. We'll 383 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 2: we'll block him in the closet. We'll excuse me, we'll 384 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:09,119 Speaker 2: put him in the bathroom while we have sex. She 385 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:14,360 Speaker 2: doesn't even want to see Elijah. Did you see that, Brittany? 386 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 5: Yep? 387 00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: So, yep. 388 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 5: I read the complete criminal complaint talking about what they 389 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,360 Speaker 5: were going to do and where Elijah should go while 390 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:24,879 Speaker 5: they were doing it. There was another part of the 391 00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 5: complaint where she actually left her six year old daughter 392 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 5: in the car for about an hour to go inside 393 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 5: to his apartment to basically do the same thing. 394 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: And when she was. 395 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,679 Speaker 5: Left in the car alone for about an hour, it 396 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,480 Speaker 5: was at nighttime. It was like thirty four degrees here 397 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 5: in Wisconsin, which is just above freezing, so a very 398 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 5: cold night for a six year old to be left 399 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 5: in a car for an hour again to do the 400 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 5: same thing that she went there that night to do 401 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:52,880 Speaker 5: with Jesse Bang. 402 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,680 Speaker 2: Around three point thirteen am, according to the criminal complaint, 403 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 2: a photo shows Elijah lying on a bit with a 404 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 2: blindfold over his eyes, bruising on his jaw and neck, 405 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:11,479 Speaker 2: bruising on his upper left arm. Mommy confirms she took 406 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 2: the picture and then deleted it. Her phone leaves two rivers, 407 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 2: leaving her boy there four thirty a m. The record 408 00:25:23,320 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 2: low was twenty seven degrees the high thirty six Other 409 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 2: photos that we find in Facebook messenger shows little Elijah 410 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:39,439 Speaker 2: standing in the corner wearing only a diaper, his hands 411 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 2: in a praying position. 412 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 1: The diaper is full and it's. 413 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:51,760 Speaker 2: Taken at Jesse Wang's apartment, Bill Delly, does it ever 414 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 2: end with people like mommy and her convicted fellon lover? 415 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:01,959 Speaker 2: Now Elijah is dead, and yes, let me say again, 416 00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 2: for legal reasons, they're not charged with his death. 417 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: What about it, Bill? 418 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 9: For them to claim that a three year old disappeared 419 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,359 Speaker 9: out of nowhere, found his way out of a home 420 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:18,920 Speaker 9: through a neighborhood, and ultimately found his way to three 421 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 9: miles away into a wooded area. If that's the suggestion, 422 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,359 Speaker 9: it certainly doesn't seem to make sense to me from 423 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,200 Speaker 9: an investigative standpoint. I think a lot of other things that. 424 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: We need to be looked at. 425 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 9: We talked before about the forensics, about the digital forensics, 426 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 9: and that footprint unfortunately taught so much time has passed 427 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:40,760 Speaker 9: with regard to gathering soil samples from vehicles and shoes, etc. 428 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 9: That unfortunately, that ship may have sailed. But still I 429 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 9: think there's a number of investigative steps they can take 430 00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 9: and hopefully kind of button up this case and bring 431 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 9: it to justice. 432 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:52,920 Speaker 1: Okay, what about it, Darryl Cohen Nancy. 433 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 10: There are no words, no words at all to explain 434 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 10: what has gone on in this poor child's life. A 435 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 10: child being made to be worse than he could His 436 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:10,959 Speaker 10: life was worse than ever anyone could imagine. Why in 437 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 10: the world they would want him to be a quote 438 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 10: man is beyond belief. But acting like a little boy, 439 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 10: what little boys do? They do wonderful things and they're 440 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,840 Speaker 10: exasperating and you love it. But what he went through 441 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 10: is just a microcosm of what these two people, once 442 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 10: they are charged, will be dealing with in the legal system. 443 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 10: And you and I both know if someone hurts a 444 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 10: child and they're incarcerated, it's not going to be good 445 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 10: for them, regardless of what happens in the courtroom. 446 00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 4: Last Saturday, Sheriff Hartway called me immediately upon learning his 447 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 4: deputies were responding to investigate a report of skeletal remains 448 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 4: found by someone in the town of Two Rivers with 449 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 4: night falling near The entire area was secured well, a 450 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 4: variety of resources were gathered to investigate. Ultimately, a forensic 451 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 4: anthropologist with the Wisconsin State Crime Laboratories was able to 452 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 4: confirm a skull and bones as human remains. 453 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 3: As authorities investigate the disappearance of Elijah, View, mom Kad 454 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 3: Bauer and boyfriend Jesse Vang are arrested charged with child neglect. 455 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,000 Speaker 2: In the last days, the remains a little three year 456 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 2: old Elijah View found in a densely wooded area with 457 00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:45,880 Speaker 2: me and all Star panel to make sense of what 458 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 2: we know right now, we've been talking about the criminal 459 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,240 Speaker 2: complaint that led to mommy and our convicted fellow lover's 460 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,080 Speaker 2: arrest on child neglect. 461 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:57,400 Speaker 1: To doctor Aaron Kimberley, joining. 462 00:28:57,080 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 2: US forensic anthropologist and director Florida is teet forensic anthropology. 463 00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:05,360 Speaker 2: Doctor Kimberly, I want to talk to you about cod 464 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 2: cause of death. You were describing earlier that there. 465 00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: Will be an elaborate excavation process. 466 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 2: To try and get all of the over three hundred 467 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,640 Speaker 2: bones that are in a child's body, a child of 468 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:24,320 Speaker 2: three years old. What can you tell us about potential 469 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 2: discovery of cause of death? 470 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 6: Well, it's going to be critical in this case in 471 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 6: order to explain what actually happened to him. They will 472 00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 6: go through each of those little bones, each of those 473 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 6: little remains, meticulously clean them, X ray, look at them, 474 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 6: look at them with microscopes and try to assess if 475 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 6: there are any injuries. And there's two important things that 476 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 6: they'll be looking for. One, of course, is that injuries 477 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 6: that occurred at the time of death that would explain 478 00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 6: the cause of death. And then there would be looking 479 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 6: for any signs abuse, neglect, malnutrition, prior injuries, maybe in 480 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:08,520 Speaker 6: different stages of healing that will show a pattern of abuse. 481 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 6: And you see that a lot in children like this. 482 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 6: That could be in the month preceding his death, or 483 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 6: it could be over the three years of his life, 484 00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 6: and so all of that helps to show that pattern 485 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 6: of what he went through. 486 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,719 Speaker 2: Listen to Crime Stories with Nancy Grace on America's number 487 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 2: one podcast network, iHeart open your free iHeart app and 488 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:42,320 Speaker 2: search Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. 489 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,960 Speaker 2: And here's the concern for the prosecution. Daryl Cohen Darald Cohen, 490 00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:55,240 Speaker 2: now high profile defense attorney, but former felony prosecutor in 491 00:30:55,400 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 2: inner city Atlanta. Darryl here's the thing, this is why 492 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 2: we need doctor Aaron Kermerley so much. The defense is 493 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 2: going to claim because they're him in they're trapped by 494 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:15,720 Speaker 2: the two defendant's previous statements. They can't go anywhere except 495 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 2: to say, oh, I went to sleep. 496 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: And I woke up and he was gone. 497 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 2: Without a cod that could effectively be argued to a jury. 498 00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 2: Yes I was mistreating him, Yes I'm neglectful, but I 499 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 2: really did go to sleep and he wandered out. That 500 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:39,520 Speaker 2: it could actually succeed if we can't get a cod 501 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:42,400 Speaker 2: because it could be argued he just wandered out and 502 00:31:42,440 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 2: died in the elements. 503 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 10: Nancy, that's true, that could happen. But they will both 504 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:52,640 Speaker 10: assuming that's the case, assuming a jury says not guilty. 505 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:57,080 Speaker 10: They will not say not guilty on child abuse. They 506 00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,000 Speaker 10: will not say not guilty on all of the sour charges. 507 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 10: So sometimes you get mad, but then you really have 508 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 10: to get even think al Capone, who is the worst 509 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 10: human being in the world during his time, and what 510 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 10: are they getting on murder? 511 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 5: Nah? 512 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,320 Speaker 10: Tax evasion? But it's served. 513 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 2: Okay, Darryl, no offense because you were a great prosecutor 514 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:23,440 Speaker 2: and a great defense attorney. But could you please stop 515 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 2: the gibberish Okay, telling me that, uh, let's wait on 516 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 2: jail house justice. Okay, you know where you can stick 517 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 2: that to coin a legal phrase. And now you're saying, hey, 518 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 2: let's wait. If we can't get him on murder, maybe 519 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 2: we can get him on tax evasion. Okay, head blowing 520 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 2: off right now. But that said, let me give a 521 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 2: more effective approach. The prosecution could consider felony murder. They're 522 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 2: already charged with felony child neglect, and during the commission 523 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:04,960 Speaker 2: of that felony, a death occurs, whether intended or not. 524 00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 2: Felony murder in many jurisdictions carries the same sentence as 525 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 2: malice or murder. 526 00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: One murder. 527 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 2: I'm trying to talk legal practicalities, not I don't even 528 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 2: know what you're saying. You're like you're from a different planet. 529 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 2: Let's wait for a tax evasion charge. What about a 530 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 2: felony murder charge? 531 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:25,760 Speaker 5: What about that? 532 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 1: Dear old Cohen, Come on you imagine in the middle 533 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: of the road with me. Get out of the weeds. 534 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 10: I'm in the middle of the road. You apparently are 535 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,400 Speaker 10: in the weeds. You don't like these people, and I 536 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,720 Speaker 10: don't blame you, but I will say this, I don't 537 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 10: like it. 538 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,800 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter if I like them or love them. 539 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: The child is dead. 540 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 2: And here is a plausible way to get a murder conviction. 541 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 10: That's a possible way of getting a murder conviction, depending 542 00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:55,959 Speaker 10: on what the circumstances are after the investigation. As to 543 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 10: how this child died. If it can be proven that 544 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,920 Speaker 10: this child and was zen place where he was found, 545 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 10: that's one thing. If it appears in the physical and 546 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 10: forensic evidence shows that he wandered away, then finding them 547 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 10: guilty of murder is going to be a lot more difficult. 548 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 10: But being difficult doesn't mean you can't get even in 549 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,240 Speaker 10: another way. No, I don't suggest tax evasion. 550 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to get even. I want justice. 551 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 2: Brittany Schmidt joining me anchor investigative reporter, Brittany, Where was 552 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:35,239 Speaker 2: the blanket found in relation to the remains, because that 553 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,279 Speaker 2: is a way for me to show he didn't just 554 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 2: wander off. 555 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:40,720 Speaker 1: Where was the blanket? Brittany? 556 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 5: It was just a few miles away from where the 557 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,600 Speaker 5: remains were found, so about a two minute three minute drive. 558 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 5: We even did the drive from where he was reported 559 00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 5: missing at the apartment complex to where the profound Jena 560 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 5: Horse was blocked off by police and that was about 561 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:58,479 Speaker 5: a four minute drive for us. 562 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 2: But was found out in the the woods. Was it 563 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 2: in a dumpster? Where was the blanket? 564 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,359 Speaker 1: It was out in a field, so you would have. 565 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 2: To think, oh, was the field near a roadway, Brittany Schmidt. 566 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:10,839 Speaker 5: It was near a road. 567 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 2: Yes, okay, so the steak can make a reasonable argument 568 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 2: the blanket was thrown out of a car. If you 569 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 2: believe this child wandered away in the freezing snow eleven 570 00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 2: inches with nothing but a blanket, wearing a dipe Ooh, 571 00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 2: that's a good question as to whether he was wearing clothes. 572 00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:30,359 Speaker 1: If clothing was. 573 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 2: Found on his remains, that's hard to believe that he 574 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:38,920 Speaker 2: would walk out in the snow, discard his blanket in 575 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,719 Speaker 2: one place, and then walk another mile plus barefoot. 576 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:45,960 Speaker 1: Hey, Brittany, did the. 577 00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 2: Remains were they found with any clothing or shoes? 578 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,440 Speaker 5: We tried to ask that question. We did not get 579 00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:55,319 Speaker 5: those details. But I'm in the community that it's a 580 00:35:55,440 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 5: very popular road where he was reported missing on. So 581 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,360 Speaker 5: when talking to community, they said if they were to 582 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,719 Speaker 5: see a toddler walking, they would have seen them. So 583 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,560 Speaker 5: it was about a four mile trip from the apartment 584 00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:08,800 Speaker 5: to where the remains were found. 585 00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 3: A potential break in the search for missing Elijah view 586 00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:18,560 Speaker 3: as human remains are found on a rural Wisconsin property. 587 00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,280 Speaker 3: Has Elijah been found? 588 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 2: The remains of this little top boy haven't been found. 589 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 2: We don't know a lot of details yet. Was he 590 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:30,200 Speaker 2: wearing the clothes in which he. 591 00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:31,600 Speaker 1: Was reportedly last seen. 592 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,360 Speaker 2: You got to consider the source where we got that information. 593 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 2: He was last thing wearing gray pants, a long sleeved 594 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,719 Speaker 2: dark shirt, red and green dinosaur shoes, and carrying the 595 00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 2: red and white plaid blanket that was found several miles 596 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 2: away from the home. 597 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: We know that skeletal. 598 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,279 Speaker 2: Remains have been found in a wooded area about three 599 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:57,720 Speaker 2: miles from Vang. That is the boyfriend's home. 600 00:36:58,120 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 1: Vang's home. 601 00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:04,160 Speaker 2: We have been got We've gotten confirmation through DNA testing 602 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:10,840 Speaker 2: that the skeletal remains are Elijah view to doctor Aaron 603 00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:17,920 Speaker 2: Kimberly joining us for instic anthropologist. Doctor Kimberly, the reason 604 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 2: I'm asking if the remains were totally skeletonized, which we 605 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:27,000 Speaker 2: understand they were, does that make sense that they're skeletonized 606 00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,520 Speaker 2: after about six plus months? 607 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: Number one? And number two. 608 00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:35,240 Speaker 2: If the remains are skeletonized, that means no soft tissue, 609 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:39,240 Speaker 2: no internal organs, no eyes, no skin. So we won't 610 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,040 Speaker 2: be able to look at the neck to determine if 611 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 2: there was a sign of strangulation. We won't be able 612 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 2: to look at the eyes to determine if there were 613 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 2: burst Particia, it's going to be hard unless you've got 614 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 2: broken bones, or unless you've got a nick from a 615 00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,719 Speaker 2: knife or a bullet, which I doubt we're not going 616 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 2: to be able to get cause of death. 617 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 1: Without soft tissue. Could you explain that, doctor Camerly. 618 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 6: You're right, they're going to be looking at each individual 619 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,200 Speaker 6: bone and trying to assess if there are any fractures. 620 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 6: The most likely or most expected, you know, type of 621 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,840 Speaker 6: injuries would be blunt trauma because of that photo you 622 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 6: already see he had blunt trauma. But they'll look for 623 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:25,359 Speaker 6: even fracture lines, hairline fractures or breaks, and then they'll 624 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 6: be looking for those that occurred at the time of death. 625 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,520 Speaker 6: Obviously there's no healing on those injuries, but there may 626 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:34,880 Speaker 6: be other injuries from the months or years before that 627 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,839 Speaker 6: that show a systematic or pattern of abuse. So they'll 628 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,759 Speaker 6: be looking for both of those types of injuries. 629 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 2: Two renowned psychologist Karen Stark Karen, I've been looking at 630 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,879 Speaker 2: the text between these two ghules straight from Hell, and 631 00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:56,440 Speaker 2: they're texting back and forth, and the mother, the biological 632 00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:00,480 Speaker 2: mother of Elijah Vie, says, I I don't want him 633 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,400 Speaker 2: to hate you, just fear you. 634 00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 7: How could we make sense out of anything that she said, Nancy, 635 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:08,840 Speaker 7: Because this is somebody who sent her a little boy there, 636 00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,760 Speaker 7: and here's a little boy who couldn't be a little 637 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:15,280 Speaker 7: boy who was treated like a terrorist. He was actually 638 00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 7: subjected to those kinds of tactics where he stood cold water, 639 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 7: a diepy all day. This is a horrible, horrible example 640 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,720 Speaker 7: of parenting. It's abuse, and so I can't even begin 641 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 7: to imagine what the outcome will be. But we hope 642 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,400 Speaker 7: that they get what they deserve and justice served. 643 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 2: He also writes to the bio mom quote, he did 644 00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:45,440 Speaker 2: fear me, but he didn't respect me. Now I'm making 645 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:51,319 Speaker 2: him a three year old top boy respect me. I 646 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:54,000 Speaker 2: wonder how much respect he's going to get behind bars 647 00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 2: in the pen. Brittany Schmidt joining us, WBA y Brittany 648 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,720 Speaker 2: where are these two now? I'm referring to this guy 649 00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 2: Vang and mommy. 650 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:07,440 Speaker 5: Right now they're sitting in the Manitoau County jail. 651 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,400 Speaker 2: So they're getting three hots and a cot while we 652 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 2: are trying to We're standing by to find out if 653 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 2: all three hundred plus bones of Elijah Vue have been found. 654 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 2: If you have information about what happened to this beautiful boy. 655 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,880 Speaker 2: Just three call eight four four to six seven sixty 656 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:37,360 Speaker 2: six four eight repeat eight four four two six seven 657 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:43,040 Speaker 2: sixty six four eight. We stop now and remember American 658 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 2: Hero Lieutenant Dustin Demante Bristol, p D. 659 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 1: Thirty five, shot and killed in a line of duty. 660 00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:59,240 Speaker 2: Lieutenant Demonte survived by his wife who is expecting a baby, Laura, 661 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:08,640 Speaker 2: daughter Phoebe, and son Porter. American Hero Lieutenant Dustin Demonte. 662 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,160 Speaker 2: Thank you to our guests for being with us and 663 00:41:12,239 --> 00:41:19,200 Speaker 2: helping us wade through the discovery of the remains of Elijah. 664 00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:23,360 Speaker 2: You fancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend.