WEBVTT - Leon Black Leaving Apollo Global Earlier Than Expected 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.400 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.440 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanibek. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.280 --> 0:00:09.799 you the latest news from the world of business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.600 plus technology, politics, economics, all harnessing the power of Business 0:00:13.640 --> 0:00:17.119 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.120 --> 0:00:20.000 analyst in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.200 Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.120 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:27.840 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:34.920 YouTube search Bloomberg Global News. You've got Astra Zeneca. It 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:37.840 looks like we've got another what fourth vaccine? Now, yeah, 0:00:37.960 --> 0:00:39.840 well it still lets to get a ridens use authorization, 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.239 but the headline number is a good number. This is 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:47.479 good news, right seven efficacy, as you said, so hopefully 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:49.640 they'll be more confidence in using it. But then you've 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:51.400 got we just talked about it New Jersey, New York 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:53.600 like their you know, New Jersey specifically pausing for the 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:58.400 rollbacks of restrictions as it's watching its COVID cases once 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:00.640 again searched to the highest in the nation. Some really 0:01:00.640 --> 0:01:03.240 concerning numbers as well. All right, so that's going on. 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:05.880 You also have Germany doing rollbacks. I mean, there's a 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:07.920 lot of interesting things going on that reminds you that 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:10.559 this is not a straight path forward. Let's get into 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:12.959 it with a voice that we've talked to many times 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:15.800 over the past year, Dartyman Abuse. She is CEO and 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.160 co founder at Incredible Health. Her company connects hospitals with 0:01:19.240 --> 0:01:22.319 nurses and other healthcare workers, and she joins us once 0:01:22.360 --> 0:01:25.040 again on the phone in San Francisco. Dr Abuse, Nice 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:27.440 to have you here with Tim and myself. How are you. 0:01:28.600 --> 0:01:30.360 I'm doing well, Thank you, Thank you so much for 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:32.039 having me on the show again. Well, it's good to 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:33.840 have you back. We were trying to make sense of 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:36.120 like where to start with you. So tell me what 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:39.520 you think are the important headlines, Uh, you know across 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:42.080 the US globally that you think our audience needs to 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:46.720 be focusing on. So I think some a critical set 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:50.000 of headlines around the healthcare workers themselves. Um. And so 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:53.280 what we've done is we've published the report recently that 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:56.440 looks at the impact COVID nineteen her paddle on healthcare workers, 0:01:56.440 --> 0:01:59.920 specifically nurses, over the last twelve months and there's been 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.200 a whole set of interesting findings. UM. The reason it's 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:06.160 important is because these healthcare workers are the ones delivering 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:09.400 care and taking care of COVID patients. UM. They're also 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:12.520 being exposed on the front lines to COVID. UH. And 0:02:12.680 --> 0:02:15.680 you know, healthcare workers are the biggest group of labor. 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:18.800 It's the biggest labor sector in the country today. UM. 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:22.200 And so so that's why I think it's important to highlight. UM. 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.560 There's a few important findings that I want to share 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:27.639 with the audience. UM. One is that what we've seen 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:30.520 is that actual compensation for healthcare workers has gone up. 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:34.519 In the last twelve months, it's probably been seen. Healthcare 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:37.480 workers have seen the biggest increases in compensation both salary 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:41.080 and signing bonuses compared to any other previous time in history. 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:43.320 And a lot of that is driven by the increased 0:02:43.320 --> 0:02:47.520 demand for them. UM. The second area that's interesting is 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:51.040 the turnover has also increased. You know, nurses and healthcare 0:02:51.080 --> 0:02:55.639 workers are leaving the workforce in higher numbers than ever before. 0:02:56.200 --> 0:02:58.320 A lot of a lot of nurses are taking advantage 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:02.359 of early retirement. UM. They're also leaving due to fatigue, 0:03:02.360 --> 0:03:05.200 and stress. And then the third areas that's important is 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.560 how healthcare workers are perceiving their local communities in that 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:13.320 don't feel appreciated by their local communities because their local 0:03:13.320 --> 0:03:18.200 communities are not necessarily following COVID guidelines. There we can 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:21.240 go ye, there some some some really mixed news in 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.680 the report. Um, let's let's let's start just with the turnover, 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:28.600 because look, it's not surprising given what healthcare workers have 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.519 had to endure over the last you know, thirteen months 0:03:31.520 --> 0:03:33.880 when it comes to the pandemic, that there could be 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:38.040 a lot of them who are very tired. How much 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:41.120 higher is turnover right now when it comes to nurses 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:43.119 and what needs to be done to make sure that 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:47.200 this doesn't continue. So chief nursing officers in chief HR 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:52.120 officers of them report that the turnover has increased, and 0:03:52.120 --> 0:03:55.280 it's increased by about five Now keep in mind nurse 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:59.320 turnover already was around even before the pandemics, so now 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:03.160 it's gone up to about um the key drivers of 0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:06.120 that are are exactly what you state is the fatigue, 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.520 the anxiety to stress that comes from coping with the 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:14.040 pandemic and and being exposed to COVID. UH and then 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:17.479 the other areas just you know, just nurses taking advantage 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:22.039 of of the options they have, including things like early retirement. Hey, 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:24.520 one thing I want to ask you, um Dr Appoise, 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.200 is that what you talk about is turnover, and there's 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:29.320 a fairly high turnover as you just mentioned with nurses, 0:04:29.360 --> 0:04:32.360 but we're seeing more of it because of the past year. 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:38.000 Are you concerned because of turnover or burnout? That especially? 0:04:38.040 --> 0:04:39.720 I go back to the headline, Tim and I talked 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:42.920 about where you know, New Jersey is now seeing their 0:04:42.960 --> 0:04:45.479 case counts surge to the highest in the nation, and 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.839 there are hot spots once again around the country. You know, 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.360 we've had a lot of conversations with with heads of 0:04:51.400 --> 0:04:55.159 the Atlantic Health System, with Northwill Health, the CEO joined us, 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.120 and they constantly talked about this plateau ng of numbers 0:04:58.120 --> 0:05:00.200 that we're not going down. So I do want under 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.440 are you concerned at all about us not having the 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:06.360 support staff, the nursing staff that if we get another 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:11.160 spike that could be problematic. Yeah, we we are concerned 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:14.240 about that. And that's been you know, every time a 0:05:14.279 --> 0:05:17.960 new search happens, the staffing situation and the hiring situation 0:05:18.040 --> 0:05:21.520 becomes more more challenging because each time there's a surge, 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:23.359 there's a set of people who there's a set of 0:05:23.400 --> 0:05:26.599 healthcare workers that permanently leave the workforce. And I'm wondering, 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:29.440 are you setting up for another surge? Because I what 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:31.960 I love about talking to you mine is that you 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:34.920 are seeing what's going on around the country and kind 0:05:34.920 --> 0:05:37.640 of a bigger picture. And I'm wondering. There's a lot 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:40.320 of optimism. It's spring here in New York, and people 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.280 feel like things are starting to open up again, but 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.720 I feel like again, step forward, step back, because we 0:05:45.760 --> 0:05:48.320 are still in a pandemic, and what are you seeing? 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.000 How how concerned should we be about maybe another wave 0:05:52.160 --> 0:05:55.480 based on what you're seeing in the conversations you're having, Right, 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:58.200 So we are concerned for for more surges and specific 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:02.840 states and specific locations UM. And the reason for that 0:06:03.000 --> 0:06:06.640 or the impact is this several reasons. One, I think 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:08.680 we're going in the next few weeks, we're going to 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:13.520 be running into UM Americans not wanting to take the vaccine. 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:15.440 And by the way, that includes the nurses. Our study 0:06:15.520 --> 0:06:18.200 does show that thirty nurses have chosen not to take 0:06:18.200 --> 0:06:21.640 the vaccine because they're not they don't feel that they 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:24.839 you know, they just chosen not to UM the other 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:26.920 and then the second areas and the second area of 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:29.960 concern is the new variants, the new COVID variants, and 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:33.920 and and how how much more UH spread that they'll 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:36.680 be spreading more UM. That's the other area of concern 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:39.200 right expect we've all talked about that, like how many 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:41.560 vaccines do we how much of the population do we 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:43.960 need to see? What percentage vaccinating in order to get 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:47.600 ahead of those variants. Dr Abuside, you referred to vaccine 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:51.880 hesitancy among healthcare workers that that you're finding at Incredible Health. 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.599 Give us the statistic, because Carol and I talked last 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:56.600 week about a Washington Post poll that found that more 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.600 more than four intent healthcare workers have not been vaccinated. 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:03.800 Why are you seeing it at Incredible Health. Yeah, so 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:08.159 what we're what we've discovered in our study that nurses 0:07:08.560 --> 0:07:10.720 are saying they don't plan to take the vaccine at 0:07:10.760 --> 0:07:13.280 all at all, even when one becomes available to them. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:17.200 The healthcare workers were first in line, so effectively they're 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:20.720 they all have for the most part, access to the vaccine. 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:25.080 I think the skepticism UM and this hesitation is mostly 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:29.000 driven by disinformation honestly, UM, A lot of that's being 0:07:29.080 --> 0:07:33.280 driven by social media disinformation. UH rumors and myths like 0:07:33.600 --> 0:07:36.200 the vaccine is going to change your DNA and kind 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:38.920 of think things like that that are just completely false, 0:07:39.160 --> 0:07:42.760 UM or honestly to blame. It is a bit shocking 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:46.080 to see healthcare workers UH kind of fall for this, 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:50.280 for this disinformation. But regardless that that, that just highlights 0:07:50.280 --> 0:07:54.000 the need for uh, much better and much clearer public 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:58.600 health communication about how how the vaccines work, UM, what 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:00.320 what the risks are, and what the risk or not 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:04.720 and really clarifying that UM as a whole. And I 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.200 think it's the hospitals and health system the employers that 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.040 are responsible for this communication as well as you know, 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:13.600 our government's both federal, state, and local governments and really 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.040 communicating the safety of the vaccine as well as the 0:08:17.040 --> 0:08:19.160 purpose of it. So what could hospitals be doing better 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:21.080 to do this and what could governments be doing better 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.000 to communicate this? Because this is really surprising to me. 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.720 Medicine is evidence based, it's science based, and these health 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:32.880 care professionals are not following the science. You're right, it is. 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.720 It is really surprising. I think what's what's going to 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.400 be required is like a cohesive and clear campaign communication 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:43.120 campaign honestly about about the science. I mean, look, it's 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.760 been challenging for all of us, including the health care workers, 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:48.400 because the science it does change from week to weeks. 0:08:48.400 --> 0:08:51.280 The CDC guidelines do change months to months. Um, you know, 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:54.320 because this is an evolving situation, and scientists are learning 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:56.559 more and more about the pandemic, and more research papers 0:08:56.600 --> 0:08:58.920 are getting published and so on. Right, so it's not 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.120 it's not surprising. I guess that we're kind of that 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.440 we you know, that that the entire groups that people 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:06.240 may be out of date. I think it just shows 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:09.720 that you really need to have a consistent, clear, frequent 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:13.680 campaign campaigns and communication on on what the correct messaging is. 0:09:13.920 --> 0:09:16.280 You know. It's interesting and I was looking for numbers. 0:09:16.320 --> 0:09:17.679 I was at the m A website by trying to 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:20.440 get an idea of how many doctors have actually taken 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:22.520 the vaccine. And I remember talking I can't think of 0:09:22.520 --> 0:09:26.400 the guests, but they oversee a physicians group and there 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:30.320 was some even hesitant hesitancy among doctors early on in 0:09:30.400 --> 0:09:33.320 terms of taking the vaccine. But I do feel like 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:36.000 this is a crucial part of US all moving forward. 0:09:36.280 --> 0:09:40.040 Dr Abuse aide that healthcare workers in particular, you know, 0:09:40.120 --> 0:09:43.319 you would think that their front and center understanding, um, 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:46.199 what the vaccine is about. So it's it's a little 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:52.000 worrisome that there's some nervousness above that community. Absolutely, I 0:09:52.000 --> 0:09:56.000 mean the numbers among the general public US of Americans 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.520 are hesitant about taking the vaccine. So you know we're 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.199 going to start running into this issue in a matter 0:10:01.240 --> 0:10:03.800 of weeks here, especially as as a as a supply 0:10:03.840 --> 0:10:05.959 of vaccine continues to grow in the logistics and the 0:10:06.040 --> 0:10:08.559 rollout continues. Does it mean we don't get to hurt 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:13.800 immunity potentially? Potentially? I mean if it's not solved, is this, 0:10:14.040 --> 0:10:17.160 if not enough people take the vaccine, that's correct, that's 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.320 the that's the risk that we're running. So how are 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:21.600 you planning for this? At incredible health? I mean, how 0:10:21.640 --> 0:10:27.320 are you planning for staffing, for availability of employees? And 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:30.520 we'll live about thirty seconds left. Yeah, So we're we 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:33.439 have several initiatives in place. We're continuing our national expansion 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.240 um through throughout throughout the country, UM, and we're we're 0:10:37.360 --> 0:10:39.640 we have a presence Sir teaing State we're also adding 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:44.480 products features including a mental you know, mental health features, uh, 0:10:45.080 --> 0:10:48.160 A vibrant nurse community where nurses can support and advise 0:10:48.200 --> 0:10:51.079 each other. So we're continuing with our product roadmaps and 0:10:51.320 --> 0:10:53.920 our geographic expansion of adding more, more and more health 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:55.959 systness and nurses to the platform. All right, well, good 0:10:55.960 --> 0:10:57.800 to know, and I'm really great to hear about your survey. 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.880 Um wheresome though some of those data points. Dr man 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:03.679 Abus she is co founder and chief executive officer at 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:06.240 Incredible Health, on the phone in San Francisco. Yeah, I mean, 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:10.040 I think it's really disconcerting to have people who do 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:14.079 deal with patients, who people who do deal with medicine 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:17.319 and do deal with giving shots, be so concerned about 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:20.520 getting the vaccine and the message that sends to patients. Also, Yeah, 0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:22.840 and I do wonder and worry about the impact that 0:11:23.000 --> 0:11:25.000 man may have an in order for us to reopen 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.120 up our economies and really get to that HERD immunity. 0:11:27.400 --> 0:11:31.400 This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg 0:11:31.480 --> 0:11:35.600 Quick Takes Tim Stinovich from Bloomberg Radio. So never having 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.000 to say you're sorry, Nope, we're not talking about love story. 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:40.000 I did see something on it over the weekend. That's 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.960 why it's in my head. A should turn my microphone on. 0:11:42.960 --> 0:11:46.920 I thought you were talking about Justin Bieber. That too. Nice. 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:49.760 Nice stuck in my head since reading this story. So 0:11:49.840 --> 0:11:51.640 we're what we're talking about, though, is the new rule 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:53.880 of politics. Let's get into This story is going to 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:56.120 be featured in the upcoming issue of Bloomberg Business Week 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:58.920 magazine that later. This week's story already online and on 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:01.719 the Bloomberg Let's get to Boomberg News political reporter Ryan T. 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.959 Beckwith on the phone in Washington, d C. Along with 0:12:04.960 --> 0:12:06.840 Bloomberg Business We get it, or Joe Webber on the 0:12:06.880 --> 0:12:11.760 access line in Brooklyn. Sorry not sorry, Joel. Yeah. And 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:13.920 and this is the story that Ryan, Um when you 0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:17.080 when you kind of mentioned it in passing Um, I 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:18.880 was like, you can go ahead and write that story, 0:12:18.920 --> 0:12:22.559 like right now, the world needs to hear and and 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:26.400 I think you know it's really rooted in the Governor 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:31.480 Andrew Cuomo's um recent tribulence, but it's even bigger than that. Um. 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:33.880 So Ryan, to walk us through the art of the 0:12:33.920 --> 0:12:38.400 apology or lack thereof in politics. Now, Yeah, if you 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:40.760 think about the traditional apology, and I think if you're 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:43.720 of a certain age, you might be able to picture 0:12:43.800 --> 0:12:47.520 Jimmy Swagger with the tears streaming down his faint um 0:12:47.800 --> 0:12:51.760 on stage. The book that I was talking with, the 0:12:51.760 --> 0:12:54.559 author I just called the Artists of Public Problem by 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:59.000 Susan Wisebauer, and she um identified sort of certain commonalities 0:12:59.080 --> 0:13:03.160 in the very public apologies that we specifically have demanded 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:07.440 over the years from politicians for their sexual mistake, UM, 0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:10.960 whether that's cheating or harassments or or whatever. Uh. And 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:13.839 the first is that they get up in public and 0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.800 and they give it in person um to show how 0:13:16.840 --> 0:13:20.360 serious that that they are, not through a statement or whatever. Uh. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:24.000 And often they had on one side their spouse, on 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:28.120 the other side their pastor UM or other religious leader. 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:33.000 And uh. Then they begin by acknowledging what they did wrong, UM, 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:38.000 specifically apologizing directly to the victim UM as well as 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:41.400 to their spouse. Usually UM. Sometimes they would go further 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:45.600 and apologize other people, the people of you know that 0:13:45.640 --> 0:13:50.280 I represent the voters whatever. Mark Stanford, his apology just 0:13:50.360 --> 0:13:52.200 went on and on. It was a pologize and good 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:55.439 his friend Tom, you apologize to people of Congressional district, 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.040 apologize the people of faith in South Carolina who might 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.360 find others questions in our faith because he had to 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:05.920 active quotes. So um. And then they and then they 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.480 end by acknowledging they'll do better in the So what 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:14.160 happened because we didn't hear sorry from Donald Trump very 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:18.360 frequently and and we haven't heard it depends on how 0:14:18.360 --> 0:14:20.680 you define apology when it comes to what's happening with 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:25.160 with Governor Andrew Cuomo right now right so um. When 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:27.960 I was mentioning this to to other experts of the 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:31.480 apology as I said something about Donald Trump's apology after 0:14:31.480 --> 0:14:33.880 the Access Hollywood tape, and they said, like the fact 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:37.640 that you're calling this an apology is like part of 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.280 the problem here. Like Donald Donald Trump after the Access 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.440 Hollywood at it one of two occasions were sort of 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.440 apologize for something, the other being his Charlotte stilpon marks, 0:14:46.440 --> 0:14:49.760 which he's been kind of fluffed back, um and and 0:14:49.760 --> 0:14:52.280 and he got up basically and he said, you know, 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:57.000 his look like I you know, said a few things. Um, 0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.640 but it's not nearly as bounded what Bill Clinton did. 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:01.760 And hill Rick Quinton was right there with him and 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:04.760 the pivoted, stretching into an attack. So he didn't you 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:10.400 really acknowledge what he said and minimize it. So that's 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:13.440 one way in which like we are seeing somewhat of 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.960 an apology, like is speaking to a lesser case like 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:19.480 you've you've been charged with manslaughter and you get up 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:20.920 and you got look, I might have pushed a few 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:23.800 people around, you know, like you're not you're not acknowledging 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:26.200 what you did. And that Onemo did that started saying 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.480 I may have made some women uncomfortable. That's not what 0:15:29.600 --> 0:15:32.120 he's accused of. Well, well, the thing is Ryan, you know, 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.960 in this frenetic news cycle, like we're all quickly moving 0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:38.800 on to the next thing. In many ways, this can 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:41.240 be a very smart strategy if you just kind of 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:45.000 write it out, you know, everybody might move on and 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:48.160 you'll get to hold your seat. Yeah, I mean I 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:52.360 think it depends. It also requires a certain sense of shamelessness. Um, 0:15:52.520 --> 0:15:56.680 Ralph Northam apologized and then he also didn't resign. You 0:15:56.800 --> 0:15:58.840 just hung on. And I think that Trump showed that 0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:02.320 that strategy can work. That the the cost, the political 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.000 cost for two other people of removing you from office, 0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:08.520 it's just really high. It's really hard Cuomwell can basically 0:16:08.600 --> 0:16:10.560 just you know, hold on to his seat and say 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.400 I'm not going anywhere, and the legislature is going to 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:15.120 have to do a lot of work to remove him 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.160 from office. Someone is going to have to defeat him 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.040 in a primary, someone's gonna have to defeat him in 0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:21.480 a general election. Well, it easier to just say hey, 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:24.480 you know whatever and move on. But the difference is 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:26.960 that he could have apologized. He could have said, I 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:29.880 did I did things wrong, I'm sorry, here's what I 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.280 did wrong, here's the people that I've wrong. He didn't 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:34.600 really do that. By the end of the original press 0:16:34.600 --> 0:16:36.480 conference in which he was giving us apologie, he was 0:16:36.520 --> 0:16:39.800 already saying, wait for the facts. And and that's an 0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.840 indirect way of saying basically the same thing that a 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.960 politician who says these women are all liars says, Like, 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:48.080 if you say wait for the facts, then you're saying 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:49.680 what these people are saying, it's not a factual. And 0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:53.160 if you're saying that, you're not really apologizing. And that's 0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:56.480 the problem. So Ryan, one of the other things that 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.720 I thought was really surprising in your story is the 0:17:00.080 --> 0:17:05.080 year that the traditional apology political apology was actually uniquely 0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:09.200 American and that we might becoming more like the rest 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:11.200 of the world. Can you can you tell us what 0:17:11.200 --> 0:17:14.560 what that actually means, because I've always thought public apologies 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:18.520 were pretty universal idea. I think that the format in 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:22.080 which we had required people to apologize in the past 0:17:22.600 --> 0:17:27.359 was very stylized and was very much um rooted in 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:32.159 the sort of Christian confessions of sin um, you know, 0:17:32.280 --> 0:17:34.879 within certain churches where we're sort of stand up in 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:36.880 publicly apologize, this is this one and pay Then why 0:17:36.880 --> 0:17:39.119 the politicians we think up who did the best at this? 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:43.919 Uh format? Bill Clinton just did you know, biting the 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:46.760 lower lip and I had sinned, you know, like that 0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.840 that kind of apology. It's a very specific American requirement. 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:53.760 The other reasons for this, The other reason why we 0:17:53.840 --> 0:17:57.080 sort of asked you to go to another country and 0:17:57.080 --> 0:18:00.000 and we're a waitress brings your food and you say 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.680 thank you, like people lookink you're funny, right, And and 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.399 I had it with some some people from another country 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:08.480 about this. They're like, they're being paid to bring you food, 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:10.680 why are you saying thank you? And it's because we've 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:14.880 Americans are uncomfortable with power differentials and so right, when 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:17.879 someone is accused of this kind of behavior, it seems 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.920 like they're taking advantage of their social situation. The only 0:18:20.920 --> 0:18:24.440 way to really cuberate that is for them to level down, 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.680 to apologize and put themselves differ. Well. It's an interesting 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.560 read and certainly a sign of the times. Ryan, Thank 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.160 you so much. Ryan take back with Bloomberg News along 0:18:34.160 --> 0:18:37.240 with Joel Webber, editor of Bloomberg Business Week. This is 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:41.240 Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes. 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:45.160 Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio. Leon Black He's the Wall 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.080 Street billionaire. He appeared to be a main client of 0:18:48.119 --> 0:18:52.920 disgraced financier Jeffrey Epstein. He is stepping down as CEO 0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.320 of Apollo Global Management. And Tim, this is months ahead 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:57.640 of schedule. Yeah, it is Shinelli Bossik is Wall Street 0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:00.040 reporter at Bloomberg News. Joinsing this now on the O 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:02.439 from right here in our New York City bureau. But 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.320 we are doing social distancing. Socionally is not here in 0:19:05.359 --> 0:19:10.160 the studio somewhere, even though I've seen her many Yes, exactly, Hey, Shnally. 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:12.679 As Carol mentioned, this happened months ahead of schedule. How 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:15.000 big of a surprise was this to you? Listen, the 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:18.359 fact that he stepped back was not a surprise from CEO. 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:20.520 It was months a had a schedule. That was a surprise. 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:23.680 But he is also stepping back to him as chairman 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:27.520 of Apollo. And remember that is a big step back. 0:19:27.560 --> 0:19:29.840 He's stepping back from the firm in such a big way. 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:34.320 He's led the firm for thirty one years. He said 0:19:34.480 --> 0:19:38.040 in a letter to the board today that the press 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:42.960 around his relationship with Jeffrey Epstein has been has been 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:45.760 a real strain on him and has taken a toll 0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:49.640 on his health. And so he is looking to take 0:19:49.680 --> 0:19:52.320 a step back from the firm and from the spotlight. 0:19:53.000 --> 0:19:55.840 Why though, is it more about health, Is it more 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:59.040 about stepping back from the spotlight? A little of both. 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:02.520 It looks like all I asked this today too, because 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:06.080 the question is investors, when before he stepped down a CEO, 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.280 investors really had put a lot of heat on Apollo 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:12.600 and had really threatened to not be investing more with Apollo. 0:20:12.960 --> 0:20:16.040 Apollo zone performance has been really sluggish when you look 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:20.159 at its performance next to its piers. So clearly investors 0:20:20.200 --> 0:20:24.000 and other stakeholders wanted answers, and Apollo has been making 0:20:24.119 --> 0:20:29.680 very very drastic changes. Listen, the relationship between UH, Leon 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:33.080 Black and Jeffrey Epstein, a hundred and fifty eight million 0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:36.400 dollars worth the payments was at a very big scale, 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.600 even though a law firm found that there was no 0:20:39.680 --> 0:20:43.800 evidence of wrongdoing on Leon Black's part. So, uh, it's 0:20:43.800 --> 0:20:46.640 something certainly that had a lot of lingering questions, even 0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:49.960 after the report had came out and clarified that Leon 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:53.160 Black had no engagement with any of the criminal activity 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:56.000 that Jeffrey Epstein was involved with. Otionally, what's then the 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.560 reaction on Wall Street, not necessarily from from companies in 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:02.240 terms of stock price movements, but specifically from your sources 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:04.080 who you're talking to, where they are shocked as as 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:08.159 many people were yes in the sense that this really 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:11.040 was Leon Black's firm. For him to step back a 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:13.879 CEO and become chairman, that was something a lot of 0:21:13.880 --> 0:21:17.080 people had expected. For him to take this mega step 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:20.640 back from the firm was a lot less expected. He 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:24.960