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Speaker 1: Oh god. And I haven't had a good cup of

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Speaker 1: coffee since I've been here. I've been like stuck in

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Speaker 1: the holiday and express Why didn't you talk to me

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Speaker 1: right away? Hello, and welcome to save your protiction of

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Speaker 1: I heart radio and stuff media. I'm Anna Reese and

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Speaker 1: I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we're talking about coffee, Yes,

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Speaker 1: the big one. Yeah. We've been honestly putting this off

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Speaker 1: because it's so big and so much Yes, and there

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Speaker 1: are so many avenues we could have gone down, oh gosh,

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Speaker 1: coffee brewing methods, different types of coffee drinks like lat

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Speaker 1: Day's cappuccinos. But really, for our sanity, for your sanity,

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Speaker 1: for respecting those topics, they should be their own episodes. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: And we will glance through another few things on here,

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Speaker 1: like a like an instant coffee stuff like that that

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Speaker 1: deserves its own time and space. Um. Because yeah, like

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Speaker 1: we could on as we do an entire season just

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Speaker 1: on like coffee beans and coffee culture. Um. But yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna see, We're gonna see what we get through

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Speaker 1: here today. Uh huh. Because while we were on oah Who,

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Speaker 1: we were fortunate to interview a fellow who sometimes goes

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Speaker 1: by the name Doctor Coffee Um or Sean Steamond PhD Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he's the he's the guy that you heard at

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Speaker 1: the top there. And yes, I wish that we had

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Speaker 1: gone to him immediately. Um. He had so many recommendations.

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Speaker 1: He's literally written the book on coffee three actually just

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Speaker 1: held up four few days. I wasn't in a comment,

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Speaker 1: but yep uh. And he has a background in um

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Speaker 1: in horticulture and chemistry. So he is a coffee consultant

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Speaker 1: and a partner in Daylight Mind Coffee Company, which is

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Speaker 1: a restaurant in Rostary with two locations on the island

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Speaker 1: of Hawaii. But yeah, he's based in Oahu, which is

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Speaker 1: where we met up with him. Um in a room

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Speaker 1: in a coffee house with a sort of menacing taxidermy peacock. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: This was another instance in which our lift driver, overhearing

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Speaker 1: our meeting place, was a little concerned inquisitive about what

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Speaker 1: we were doing, because Sean texted and was like, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm in the room with the peacock, and we were like,

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Speaker 1: what on earth does that mean? What are we walking into?

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Speaker 1: Is this alive peacock? Yes, it wasn't it was not,

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Speaker 1: but we had many questions, and the lift driver therefore

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Speaker 1: had many questions. He was even like, uh, should you Yeah,

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Speaker 1: do you want to exchange numbers? It could tell me

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Speaker 1: everything's okay, Like I think it's gonna be okay. I

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Speaker 1: think dr coffee is not going to murderers or sick

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Speaker 1: of peacock on us. And he did not. He was great.

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Speaker 1: He he was lovely. He really was. And if it

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Speaker 1: isn't obvious from past episodes, Lauren and I and generally

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Speaker 1: the office we work in, we're big coffee people. Any

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Speaker 1: day where the coffee machine isn't working in our office

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Speaker 1: is what I described as pure panic, pure panic, yam.

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Speaker 1: I always compare it to the true in the Dungeon

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Speaker 1: scene from Harry Potter where Jacob Malfoy like throws down

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Speaker 1: his sweets and they all run out of the hall. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's what it's like. It's not dissimilar, and honestly, it's

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Speaker 1: not even very good coffee. Um. I discovered the coffee

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Speaker 1: can have like flavors other than bitter or frappuccino only

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Speaker 1: about ten years ago. I would say, um, but I

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Speaker 1: am pretty into it these days. Yeah, it's the first

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Speaker 1: thing I consume every morning. I know that's terrible. I

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Speaker 1: should hydrate. Um. And I'm fairly sensitive to caffeine as well,

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Speaker 1: so um, so I have a hard limit of three

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Speaker 1: cups a day. Mine is two cups a day. I'm

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Speaker 1: proud of you, but that's pretty recent. I I and

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Speaker 1: stated that only after I figured out that I was

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Speaker 1: addicted to caffeine. Oh yeah, because um, A couple of

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Speaker 1: years ago, I think five or so, UM, I was

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Speaker 1: waiting in line to see some famous celebrity at dragon

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Speaker 1: Con and I had a massive headache and I just

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Speaker 1: assumed hangover territory dragon Con. Yeah. I hadn't had my

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Speaker 1: morning coffee though, and so while I was waiting in

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Speaker 1: the line, my friends held my space and I went

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Speaker 1: to go get coffee. The headache went away in what

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Speaker 1: seems like minutes, just amazing, all gone. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, I gave up coffee for

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Speaker 1: a week or maybe two, and the headaches I experienced

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Speaker 1: during those week or so time period brutal. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: so bad? Yeah No, I yes, I am also addicted

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Speaker 1: to caffeine in a similar way. I mean, it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's a drug. Back when I was a copy editor

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Speaker 1: for how Stuff works dot com. I got to edit

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Speaker 1: a few articles about how caffeine and coffee work and um,

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Speaker 1: and it's fascinating it is. But that brings us to

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Speaker 1: our question coffee. What is it? Well? The beverage that

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Speaker 1: we call coffee is a water infusion of the roasted

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Speaker 1: seeds of plants in the genus Coffea. And there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of species in that genus uh at least

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Speaker 1: a hundred, but the two most commonly grown are sea

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Speaker 1: Arabica and c. Caniphora m a k a. Arabica coffee

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Speaker 1: and Robusta coffee, respectively. Mostly Arabica is grown the robust

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Speaker 1: It tends to taste a little flatter, um, but it

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Speaker 1: is more caffeinated. Oh hm um. These plants are large

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Speaker 1: shrubs or smallish trees like. Left alone, they can reach

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Speaker 1: about thirty feet that's around ten meters in height, but

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Speaker 1: four harvesting purposes, they're pruned shorter, and these plants produce

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Speaker 1: huge clusters of these small, fragrant flowers, which, when pollinated,

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Speaker 1: develop into clusters of berries sometimes called cherries, that start

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Speaker 1: out green and then turn red as they ripen. Each

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Speaker 1: berry has a thick bitter skin with a with a

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Speaker 1: sweet kind of like grape textured flesh inside, and contains

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Speaker 1: two bluish green half oval seeds or sometimes one full

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Speaker 1: oval seed, which is called a peaberry. Separate issue. So

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Speaker 1: these plants evolved to produce caffeine because caffeine is toxic

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Speaker 1: to some animals, and that caffeine is concentrated in the

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Speaker 1: plants seeds to discourage those animals from chewing on and

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Speaker 1: thus destroying the seeds. But yet again, suckers humans decided

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Speaker 1: that we like that stuff, so we make coffee. Um,

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Speaker 1: we asked Sean what it takes to get one of

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Speaker 1: those seeds often called beans into a cup of coffee. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It Actually we have to go back farther than that

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Speaker 1: because it is a seed of a plant, which means,

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Speaker 1: like most seeds, it's surrounded by fruit. So we have

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Speaker 1: this tree bush thing that grows in the field. Eventually

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Speaker 1: there are these fruit that ripen on it, and we

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Speaker 1: need to get those fruit off the tree and then

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Speaker 1: get the seed out and dry it down. And there's

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Speaker 1: lots of ways you can do that, and the way

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Speaker 1: you choose to do that has an influence on the flavor,

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Speaker 1: and you might do it because the flavor, but you

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Speaker 1: might do it based on your resources at hand. So

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Speaker 1: you get the seed, how you dry it down, you

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Speaker 1: get all those layers off, there are many of them,

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Speaker 1: and then it says green dried seed, which kind of

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Speaker 1: looks like a coffee seed but doesn't really have any

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Speaker 1: other familiarity to it. And that's the seed of commerce.

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Speaker 1: That's what's going to move around the world, or if

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Speaker 1: you're in Hawaii, is going to move down the street. Um, alright,

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Speaker 1: so we this green bean has to go to a roaster,

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Speaker 1: and the roaster in its simplest form, adds heat to

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Speaker 1: the seed and through the course of their efforts, and

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Speaker 1: that can beginning aware from really committee awhere from five

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Speaker 1: to twenty minutes. Most people who really care about coffee

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Speaker 1: flavor game for eight to twelve minutes, and that process

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Speaker 1: turns it from that green hard seed to a brown

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Speaker 1: see that we all know and love in our everyday experience.

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Speaker 1: Then someone home user a cafe a restaurant grinds up

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Speaker 1: on little pieces and runs water through it and fall out.

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Speaker 1: We have the beverage that we call coffee. And of course, um,

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Speaker 1: that's the basic process. The whole thing is an art

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Speaker 1: as much as it is a science, and peep will

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Speaker 1: have opinions about what makes a coffee good. The part

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Speaker 1: of that that we often hear about is the roasting process,

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Speaker 1: in which the green seeds are heated in big rotating

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Speaker 1: drums um at around four hundred degrees fahrenheit that's about

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Speaker 1: two oh five celsius, the beans will pop and double

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Speaker 1: in size and um and begin to brown as sugars

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Speaker 1: in them caramelize, and that's called the first crack. Oils

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Speaker 1: from inside the seeds will start to emerge and go

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Speaker 1: through chemical changes called pyrolysis. From the heat, the seeds

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Speaker 1: will will darken to a medium brown and and some

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Speaker 1: of the coffee plants bitter compounds will start to degrade,

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Speaker 1: which is great. Um. Then at around of four d

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Speaker 1: and thirty seven fahrenheight that's about celsius, the seeds go

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Speaker 1: through what's called the second crack. Um they pop again,

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Speaker 1: and we'll start to look shiny as as more oils emerge.

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Speaker 1: And if you keep going, the seeds will turn black

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Speaker 1: as those sugars in them caramelize and burn. And that's

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Speaker 1: an espresso roast. But yeah, the the length and heat

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Speaker 1: of your roast is a is a balance between holding

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Speaker 1: onto those raw sugars for their sweetness and letting those

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Speaker 1: caramel flavors develop and getting those bitter compounds to go away.

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Speaker 1: It's tricky. Yeah, you know what this reminds me of,

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Speaker 1: do you know, uh Jordan's Slansky from the Conan Show. Uh? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he has so many opinions Oh yeah about espresso and coffee,

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Speaker 1: and I, like many people are unsure if this is

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Speaker 1: a character. Promises it's not a character, but I have

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Speaker 1: a hard time believing it. But yeah, there's a I

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Speaker 1: think a remote as they call them, where um Jordan's

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Speaker 1: kind of gets in an argument with a professional barista

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Speaker 1: about how coffee should be made. Because people have strong opinions.

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Speaker 1: As you say they do, they do. But anyway, getting

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Speaker 1: those seeds in the first place can be quite complicated,

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Speaker 1: especially at scale, and it sometimes involves one of our

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Speaker 1: favorite things, fermentation. So I mentioned there's several ways you

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Speaker 1: can get the seed out of the fruit and dry down,

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Speaker 1: and the one that most people are familiar with is

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Speaker 1: referred to as fermentation. And there is actual fermentation, so

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Speaker 1: it's legitimate from a microbiological standpoint. So we take this

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Speaker 1: fruit and inside is the seed and you can just

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Speaker 1: put a little pressure on it. In the squeeze, the

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Speaker 1: seed pops out. The surrounding that seed then are two

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Speaker 1: important layers. One is the outermost layer, which is this

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Speaker 1: really sweet sticky muselage, which is quite tasty because it's

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Speaker 1: all sugar, and beneath that is a very heavy papery

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Speaker 1: layer we call parchment because it's very parchment. You can

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Speaker 1: dry down the seed with that sticky muselage on, but

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Speaker 1: it's risky because lots of things like sugar and water.

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Speaker 1: So if you dry it down poorly, then things grow,

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Speaker 1: and that growth tends to impart a flavor on the sea,

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Speaker 1: which we don't like. So if you can improve your

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Speaker 1: chances of success by drying that down, you're going to.

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Speaker 1: So when we do that is to remove all the

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Speaker 1: sticky muselage that when you dry the sugar is not

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Speaker 1: hanging around causing trom So how do you do that? Well, Historically,

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Speaker 1: you don't have many options except letting nature do its work.

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Speaker 1: So you can throw all the pile with the muselage,

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Speaker 1: all the seeds in a pile with the muselage on,

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Speaker 1: and just let it magically disappear. It's not magic. Of course,

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Speaker 1: it's native, naturally occurring microorganisms doing the work of degrading it.

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Speaker 1: No one quite doesn't like that. Often they tend to

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Speaker 1: cover it with some water to even out the heat distribution,

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Speaker 1: to make it a little more likely to succeed well.

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Speaker 1: But the same idea happens. You just cover slightly in

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Speaker 1: water and micro organisms slowly eat away at the muselage.

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Speaker 1: They actually fermented. We know that because there's CEO two

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Speaker 1: bubbles and alcohol that appeared. And then after some period

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Speaker 1: of time, depending on the ambient temperature, all that sticky

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Speaker 1: muselage is degraded, and you can just wash off the

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Speaker 1: seeds and drive them down, and then, of course you

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Speaker 1: have to later remove the parchment. There's another step after that,

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Speaker 1: but that's what fermentation is. But you can skip that step.

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Speaker 1: You can use a machine to scrape it off. You

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Speaker 1: can dry the coffee down in the fruit. You don't

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Speaker 1: even have to do any of that hard work. And

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Speaker 1: that sort of makes the most sense if you have

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Speaker 1: limited resources, because you don't need the water to soak it.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to clean the dirty water afterwards, you

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Speaker 1: just dry it down. Of course, you need the right

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Speaker 1: machine to move all the layers. You can leave the

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Speaker 1: muselage on, it's just risky. You can leave the fruit

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Speaker 1: on also risky, and i'll risky from the sense of

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Speaker 1: things going wrong with potential And Okay, y'all know that

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Speaker 1: we ask follow up questions about this because you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: um so, so I asked what that fermentation contributes to

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Speaker 1: coffee other than you know, just getting the fruit off

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Speaker 1: of the seed. Fermentation and can cow is absolutely necessary

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Speaker 1: because the seeds themselves need to change to become what

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Speaker 1: we want them to become coffee. The step is totally

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Speaker 1: not necessary. Are it's not good or bad. The argument

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Speaker 1: to be made for fermentation process and coffee is that

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Speaker 1: you get you can sort of define that as a

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Speaker 1: baseline flavor of the coffee, the soul of the experience.

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Speaker 1: Other processing methods tend to add on a flavor experience

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Speaker 1: which is consistent with the process. So if you dry

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Speaker 1: the coffee and the entire fruit, you tend to get

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Speaker 1: a very consistent end flavor, which is jammy, fruity berry

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Speaker 1: kind of flavor. If you leave the mu sledge on,

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Speaker 1: it gets a little bit sweeter. A little complexity about

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Speaker 1: the increased sweetness is pretty common, but without any of that.

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Speaker 1: If you can just ferment it and dry it with

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Speaker 1: the seed, you just get whatever. The coffee is not

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Speaker 1: good or bad, right, And that's a really important distinction

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Speaker 1: when we talked about anything, not just coffee, that there's

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Speaker 1: no right answer. We do things, we create flavors some

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Speaker 1: people like when some people don't. Just because an expert

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Speaker 1: says this is great, you should love this doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: it's good or bad. It just means they like it

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Speaker 1: a lot. It doesn't make it better or good, or

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean it should be more money or it

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Speaker 1: should be more exclusive. It just means the experts, who

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Speaker 1: are very different from normal consumers really liking And yes,

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Speaker 1: there are a lot of coffee experts out there, it's

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Speaker 1: a whole system, But there are also a lot of

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Speaker 1: normal consumers. Oh yeah. Coffee has often dubbed the world's

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Speaker 1: most popular drink after oil. It is the world's most

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Speaker 1: traded commodity, valued at over one hundred billion dollars. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, yes, And because of that, we have

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Speaker 1: so many numbers for you. Yea of American adults have

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Speaker 1: at least one cup of coffee every day, which, honestly,

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Speaker 1: I find a little low um when that comes out

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Speaker 1: to four cups of coffee sold per second in this country.

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Speaker 1: New York City is thought to drink seven times more

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Speaker 1: coffee than any other city in the US, the city

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Speaker 1: that Never sleeps. Indeed, the daily average is three point

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Speaker 1: one cups a day, and the average size of a

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Speaker 1: cup here being nine ounces. Sixty people drink coffee for

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Speaker 1: breakfast in the US. That comes out to an annual

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Speaker 1: forty billion dollars spent on coffee. The industry employs one million,

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Speaker 1: six seven hundred and ten people in America. In the

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Speaker 1: decade between two thousand and coffee exports grew by eighty

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Speaker 1: five up to fifteen point eight three billion. Global coffee

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Speaker 1: consumption is thought to be around at two point to

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Speaker 1: five billion cups of coffee every day. Uh yeah, wow,

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Speaker 1: that's sinking. I don't know how much that is. That's

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Speaker 1: too many, that's that's it's a big it's just big

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Speaker 1: brain trouble processing my brain at least. Oh yeah, I

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Speaker 1: honestly cut off after like a thousand. I'm like, that's

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Speaker 1: about yea, as as high as it goes. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: anything else is just more. I guess, yeah, it's more

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Speaker 1: than one thousand. We can say that for sure um

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Speaker 1: in the US, drip coffee is the most popular um

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Speaker 1: or it's the way most coffee is consumed. And as

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Speaker 1: of single cup brewers took the second spot. Specialty coffee

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Speaker 1: sales are going up a year and independent coffee shops

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Speaker 1: make about twelve billion dollars a year. As Brazil produces

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Speaker 1: the most coffee beans at two point seven to billion

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Speaker 1: kilos um. Vietnam comes in second with one point six

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Speaker 1: five billion, then Colombia, Indonesia and Ethiopia, And if I

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Speaker 1: may bring up Zilla, film per section may always spring up,

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Speaker 1: thank you, thank you. There's a joke in there because

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Speaker 1: there's like these French spies that are pretending to be

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Speaker 1: American and they have a joke where the guys like

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Speaker 1: he SIPs on some coffee brood and uh and Mr

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Speaker 1: Coffee or something and he spits it out and he goes,

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Speaker 1: you call this coffee. Another guy goes, I call this America.

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Speaker 1: So we don't have a good a great reputation for coffee.

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Speaker 1: Semi recently, I think that's changed. Okay, that's that's fair, right, Yeah, anyway,

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Speaker 1: that's what I always think of the five largest coffee chains,

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Speaker 1: which are Starbucks, Duncan, Coast of Coffee, Timmy Horton's, and

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Speaker 1: Cafe excuse me, McDonald's Coffee have thirty four thousand, three

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Speaker 1: hundred stores. Yeah, and coffee has become something of a

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Speaker 1: cultural phenomenon. I think those first coffee or don't talk

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Speaker 1: to me until I've had my coffee shirts. Sean spoke

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Speaker 1: a bit to coffee's popularity. One of the really maybe

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Speaker 1: the best thing that coffee has going for it is

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Speaker 1: that's not alcoholic. And when you were in high school

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Speaker 1: and you want to have freedom and spread your wings,

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Speaker 1: you can't go to a bar, but you can go

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Speaker 1: to a coffee shop and you can spend money on

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Speaker 1: something that is affordable. The worst, most expensive cup of

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Speaker 1: coffee often going to find in a geeky coffee shops.

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Speaker 1: I mean, really gonna do what like six dollars at

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Speaker 1: the worst. You can definitely find the occasional other, but

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Speaker 1: four to six dollars is totally accessible, especially if you

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Speaker 1: have a part time job. Right it's legal and there's

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Speaker 1: a status now associated with coffee, so there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of it's easy to get young people in the coffee

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Speaker 1: I think, and some of them are never gonna leave

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Speaker 1: the milky flavored whatever, because it's part status and it's

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Speaker 1: part candy, and it's just what they're always gonna do,

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Speaker 1: and it's always got that underlying magic called caffeine. M

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Speaker 1: The word coffee may have derived from a Romantic word

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Speaker 1: for wine in Yemen. From there we got the Turkish

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Speaker 1: word for coffee, covey, and then we got the Dutch coffa,

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Speaker 1: and then the English coffee. The nickname Java originated in

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Speaker 1: the eighteen hundreds, when coffee was gaining popularity and a

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Speaker 1: decent amount of coffee came from the island of Java.

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Speaker 1: As for the nickname Joe, that's a bit murky. One

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Speaker 1: theory goes the nickname was a byproduct of a nineteen

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Speaker 1: fourteen band on alcohol on U. S. Navy ships and

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Speaker 1: acted by Secretary of the Navy, Josephus Joe Daniels. This

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Speaker 1: meant that the stiffest drink sailors could get was a

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Speaker 1: cup of black coffee. Historians don't really buy this story, though,

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Speaker 1: arguing that the phrase cup of Joe didn't enter our

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Speaker 1: language until the nineteen thirties, derived from another nick game

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Speaker 1: for coffee from that time, jamoke or maybe jamoica a

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Speaker 1: combination of java and mocha, or potentially it simply is

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Speaker 1: used the same way that we use when the same

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Speaker 1: connotation when we say something like average Joe. It was

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Speaker 1: a drink for everybody, every man, which brings us to nutrition. Yes,

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Speaker 1: m uh, caffeineate responsibly. Yeah, well, okay, so coffee and

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Speaker 1: it's like plain hot bean juice state has um just

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Speaker 1: a few calories like two to five from the oils

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Speaker 1: in the seeds. Uh. Coffee drinks prepared with a creamers

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Speaker 1: and sweeteners can be wildly caloric. Um. That's a whole

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Speaker 1: different episode. But yeah, there's a lot of research to

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Speaker 1: the biochemical properties of coffee because it's such a globally

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Speaker 1: popular beverage. Um. Okay, very briefly, caffeine aside, Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: so um. Caffeine is a chemical stimulant that works because

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Speaker 1: because your brain creates this chemical called adnazine, and when

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Speaker 1: that adnazine binds to the receptors in your brain that

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Speaker 1: that are shaped to to to lock it in, adnascine

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Speaker 1: will slow your nerve cell activity down and uh and

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Speaker 1: dilate your brains blood vessels like it prepares you for sleep,

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Speaker 1: you feel drowsy and there's there's extra oxygen floating around

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Speaker 1: up there for your brain to work with while you're sleeping. Um.

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Speaker 1: Caffeine can bind to those same receptors, but it has

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Speaker 1: the opposite effect. It speeds up your nerve cell activity

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Speaker 1: and can constrict your brains blood vessels. Um. Which is

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Speaker 1: why some headache medicines contain caffeine and maybe part of

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Speaker 1: how it helped out with your headache that one day. Yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: and also caffeine and so so like okay. All that

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Speaker 1: increased neuron activity that caffeine produce is can trick your

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Speaker 1: pituitary gland into thinking that there is some kind of emergency,

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Speaker 1: and so your body produces adrenaline to help you deal

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Speaker 1: with it, you know, like your heart beats faster, your

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Speaker 1: your blood vessels redirect blood away from the skin and

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Speaker 1: towards the muscles. Your your liver gives you a kick

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Speaker 1: of sugar to the bloodstream and and uh, Caffeine slows

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Speaker 1: down the rate at which the feel good neurotransmitter dopamine

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Speaker 1: is reabsorbed in your brain, meaning that you'll have more

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Speaker 1: dopamine floating around, meaning you feel real nice. Uh. It's

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Speaker 1: an extremely mild version of what would happen if you

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Speaker 1: were to take heroin. UM, and it's why both of

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Speaker 1: these drugs are addictive. Wow, and that's just one compounding coffee. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: coffee is a fascinating cocktail. Um. There are over eight

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Speaker 1: thousand different compounds in your average cup, and all that

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Speaker 1: processing stuff we talked about, UM does subtly affect which

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Speaker 1: ones happen and in what amounts. These things add to

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00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:05,240
Speaker 1: coffee's flavor and to the potential health effects, from lowering

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00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,960
Speaker 1: your risks of cardiovascular disease and diabetes and cirrhosis, to

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00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,879
Speaker 1: protecting the brain from diseases like Parkinson's two, blocking cancer

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00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:16,399
Speaker 1: cells movements in the body, to anti inflammatory and antibacterial

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00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,119
Speaker 1: properties um, but also potentially negative effects, especially if you

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Speaker 1: drink more than like three to five cups a day,

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Speaker 1: which can just jack up your stomach and your blood

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Speaker 1: pressure and your sleep cycles. Jack Up is definitely the

387
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 1: science term. Oh absolutely yeah, UM. And yes, caffeine can

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Speaker 1: be toxic. Two we humans in very large amounts, like

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00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,960
Speaker 1: think like thirty cups of coffee just like shotgun style. UM,

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00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 1: don't do that, um, but but just like really make

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Speaker 1: sure that your house bets don't get into coffee because

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00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: their threshold, like cats and dogs, is a lot lower.

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Speaker 1: Also bad news. Um, there's no erudite answer to the question,

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Speaker 1: why does coffee make me want to poop? What if

395
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Speaker 1: you're not one of the humans for whom this happens,

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Speaker 1: It does happen for a lot of us, supposedly women

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00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:12,160
Speaker 1: more often than men. Yeah, but anyway, Yeah, researchers think

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00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,840
Speaker 1: that it's likely a number of compounds that are interacting

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00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 1: with your stomach lining or get into your bloodstream and

400
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 1: then work together to create a neural and hormonal gastro

401
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 1: calonic response, meaning that you feel the need to defecate. Yeah. Um,

402
00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: but yes, there are science about this. Are Compatriot Christian

403
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: Sager once wrote the Weirdest brain Stuff video script about it.

404
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: It had me and Christen Conger like sort of arguing

405
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 1: and then talking about giving coffee enemas to rats, and

406
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Speaker 1: we're ben bolen um. It has never seen the light

407
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:51,440
Speaker 1: of day for I don't know if that's the correct word,

408
00:23:53,640 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: tragedy for somebody, for you perhaps particularly uh, but I digress.

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Speaker 1: We were we were talking about coffee. We were we

410
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Speaker 1: were Hawaii is the only US state where coffee is produced,

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Speaker 1: though it's also grown on Puerto Rico. A lot of

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Speaker 1: you have probably heard of ConA Coffee, Hawaii signature coffee product.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand and seven, there was an estimated seven thousand,

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Speaker 1: eight hundred acres of coffee being grown in the state.

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Speaker 1: While shopping for souvenirs for our friends back on the mainland, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I looked at a lot of coffees around Oahu and

417
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: was surprised to find that most were blends of like

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00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: a little bit of Hawaiian coffee maybe with um along

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Speaker 1: with something produced elsewhere. Um. But I've given those numbers.

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Speaker 1: It makes sense. Uh, Hawaiian coffee bags did exist, but

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Speaker 1: they were expensive. Um. And of course there are reasons

422
00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: for that. UM. We asked Sean, perhaps naively, UM, what

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Speaker 1: Hawaiian coffee is like. So in Hawaii right now there's

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Speaker 1: about a thousand coffee farms, and around the rest of

425
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: the world and every country there's obviously many more. Hawaii

426
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: is nothing on the world market, right We're less than

427
00:25:06,520 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: point zero three percent of coffee production. We just we

428
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: got followed by the next hurricane or a flood. It

429
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,720
Speaker 1: would nobody would really care. The market certainly wouldn't care.

430
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,000
Speaker 1: And if you seen we have a thousand that there

431
00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: are places that have tens of thousands of farms, and

432
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,280
Speaker 1: mostly farms around the wild. They're tiny right there, like

433
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: an acre. So in a perfect world, every farmer has

434
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 1: access to all the knowledge of resources they could possibly want.

435
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 1: They make a very active decision to how they're going

436
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: to produce their coffee and what it's gonna end up

437
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 1: like and which market you should go to. An ideal will,

438
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,520
Speaker 1: but that's not how it works, right, I do a

439
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 1: world you have natural variation, and we can map natural

440
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 1: variation of anything on a curve. Right, you just plot

441
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 1: what the XX is whatever it is that you want

442
00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,719
Speaker 1: to measure, in this case our conversations, quality of coffee,

443
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 1: and the other y access is a number of occurrences.

444
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: When you do this through most natural things on the planet,

445
00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: you tend to get a Bell curve. So if we

446
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: took all the coffee in Hawaii and we mapped it

447
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: on a curve, it would be a Bell curve and

448
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:09,719
Speaker 1: you'd have a big hump, which is you know, average, ordinary,

449
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 1: acceptably engaging coffees. You have one tail that is really disgusting, horrible, stuff,

450
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 1: and you have one tail that's really amazing and esoteric

451
00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 1: and extraordinary to explore. So when you start to say, oh,

452
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 1: what are Hawaiian coffees tastes? Like? Why are they special?

453
00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: First you're talking about the tail. Really is what the

454
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:33,199
Speaker 1: question is. And that tail, by statistical measures is you know,

455
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: you can make it five percent, but really we're talking

456
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: which is two of a thousand is uh twenty, So

457
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: not much we're talking about here, all right, So that

458
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: is just part of the conversation. The other part of

459
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: the conversation is this bit about there are a sense

460
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: of taste of a place, and lots of farmers. Every

461
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: farmer in the world wants their place to be really important. Right.

462
00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: My potatoes come from from Idaho, they should be really

463
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: tasty like Idaho. My wine comes from Burdau, it should

464
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: taste like Bordeaux. My chocolate comes from Ecuador, it tastes

465
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: like whatever that little valley in Ecuador is. And our

466
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: coffee comes from Colona should taste like ConA coffee. And

467
00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: that's a beautiful romantic idea. It's not well explored in science,

468
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 1: partially because doing these sorts of tests are really difficult

469
00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 1: because you can't have two identical places next to each

470
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,959
Speaker 1: other that all the variables are controlled. So doing that

471
00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: test is really tricky. Hawai is your example, because we

472
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: had such a small place growing coffee for a while

473
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: that we have this great case studdy so um in Hawaii.

474
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,440
Speaker 1: The only place growing significant amount of commercial coffee from

475
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: about nine to about two thousand, it's ConA. So for

476
00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 1: about a hundred years I had the games themselves. And

477
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: ConA is not that big a stretch, right, It's about

478
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 1: you up and down the mountain. It's about three some

479
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: feet maybe a mile or two lengthwise across the ocean

480
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: coast if you will go that way. It's it's not

481
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 1: that big. And the idea of ConA really is just

482
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: a political designation they know true sense of it. But

483
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,639
Speaker 1: there is a section on the big island we call ConA,

484
00:28:17,680 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 1: and that's where coffee has been grown. Right, do you

485
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,080
Speaker 1: go back fifty years ago? People who are growing coffee

486
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 1: and ConA were not growing coffee to sell as a

487
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: bag of roast of product. They were growing a fruit

488
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 1: and they sold the fruit to someone else and they

489
00:28:31,280 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 1: were done with it. So this guy who was buying

490
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: all the fruit was buying lots of fruit from all

491
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: these farmers and then doing all the processing to make

492
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: green coffee and then selling it in a container to

493
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: wherever there were maybe three or four these people or

494
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,479
Speaker 1: these mills that were buying on us. You can imagine

495
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: that all these little variations that might be happening based

496
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 1: on farmer skill and climate, which is important to coffee

497
00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: and any micro ter war issues, are now being homogenized

498
00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 1: into one terror, right you. So all of a sudden,

499
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 1: Hawaii does have a sense of place, a taste of place,

500
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 1: because all the stuff's being blended together and chipped down,

501
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: and there was I think a ConA coffee profile, flavory

502
00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: profile people still talk about and we still sort of

503
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 1: celebrate some of our competitions. But now that it doesn't

504
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 1: work that way anymore. You can have one farmer selling

505
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: roasted product of his own or her own. Most of

506
00:29:24,080 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: the steps they might do themselves, and maybe they'll contract

507
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: out various bits. They have a lot of room to

508
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 1: create unique experiences, right that two percent of the bell curve,

509
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 1: now it's that flavor continuum is is highly diverse and variable.

510
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: So there's no really such thing as sense of place

511
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: here because of the freedom to do different processes, different varieties,

512
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:51,320
Speaker 1: different roasts. Hawaii has some amazing coffees. I don't think

513
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,120
Speaker 1: they taste particularly like Hawaii. I bet if you looked

514
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:56,720
Speaker 1: hard enough around the world, you'd find other similar experiences.

515
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: But you have to look and find them and capture

516
00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: all those thing And the more we allow for diversity

517
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: of yeas and fermentation and how long you how you

518
00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: dry it, how you do whatever you're gonna do, like,

519
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,240
Speaker 1: we're gonna get more variations. I'm just not gonna be

520
00:30:13,440 --> 00:30:14,640
Speaker 1: no one's to be able to say, oh, this is

521
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: what it tastes like. And our biggest challenges that we're

522
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: in Hawaii and our coffees cost way more than almost

523
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:25,320
Speaker 1: anywhere else on the planet, even the bad stuff, because

524
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: we're Hawaii. And there's a whole list of reasons why

525
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: our coffees are more expensive, and I think they're quite legitimate,

526
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: And if you dig deep enough, I think you might

527
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 1: be convinced that it's not that our coffees are so

528
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 1: expensive that everybody else's coffees are way underpriced and unfortunate,

529
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: dark evil way. We'll come back to that dark evil

530
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: way in a moment. Yeah, it's time for some deeper history. Um.

531
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: But first it's time for a quick break for a

532
00:30:53,040 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,

533
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 1: thank you. Okay, this was a tough one to wrankle. Yeah.

534
00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:14,480
Speaker 1: As it turns out, because of the popularity of coffee,

535
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: it kind of had a hand in building like the

536
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,960
Speaker 1: world as we know it, um, And a lot of

537
00:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: the history about it is real muddled because a lot

538
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,480
Speaker 1: of people have had a hand in writing it. Yes,

539
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 1: absolutely so, yeah, we did our best. We did our best. So.

540
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 1: Coffee most likely originated in Ethiopia or possibly Yemen, but

541
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 1: people seem to thank Ethiopia UM, where it was probably

542
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 1: cultivated by ninth century CE in a region called Kafa,

543
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 1: though it was also probably chewed as a stimulant for

544
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,479
Speaker 1: hundreds of years prior to this. Enslaved people's from Sudan

545
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: are believed to have chewed on the beans to survive

546
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: their treacherous and dangerous journeys on trade routes. There's a

547
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: popular Ethiopian legend that coffee was discovered by a goat

548
00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:10,959
Speaker 1: herder named Caldy after he witnessed the energy level of

549
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:15,040
Speaker 1: his goats shoot up after they ate the coffee shrubs

550
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 1: red fruit. The goat started dancing dancing goats. Yes, a

551
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 1: lot of articles that had this story in them had

552
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: the gift of those goats dis bouncing around to to illustrate.

553
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: So he intrigued called he gave the barrier try and

554
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 1: experienced a similar energy boost. Excited to share his findings

555
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: and in some versions, convinced by his wife, he brought

556
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,440
Speaker 1: some of the beans to a local monastery, where they

557
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: quickly were dismissed as suspect for their stimulating properties. The

558
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: monks burned the beans, but the resulting aroma of roasted

559
00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: coffee beans and tied them enough to give the crop

560
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: another go. However, this story didn't appear in the records

561
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,800
Speaker 1: until around sixteen seventy one C, and it dates quality

562
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 1: to around so yeah, grain of salt, matures of history

563
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,959
Speaker 1: as always, and also Yemen has it a very similar legend,

564
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: and even in their legend. Uh, sometimes the coffee being

565
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: came from Ethiopia first, sometimes it came from human first. Anyway, Yeah,

566
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: I think the general historical agreement is that the plant

567
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 1: probably Ethiopia, the drink probably Yemen. Modern day versions of

568
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,880
Speaker 1: those yeah um at any rate, early preparations of the

569
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,280
Speaker 1: coffee fruit included a mixing, mixing it with animal fat

570
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,520
Speaker 1: to make an early version of a protein bar um,

571
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 1: eating it in a sort of porridge, and fermenting the

572
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: pulp to make something similar to wine. It was viewed

573
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: by many as like a medicinal kind of thing. One

574
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 1: of the first written records of coffee, dating to eight

575
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: hundred fifty Ish CE, was pinned by rocky's are Ras,

576
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: a physician and philosopher, who wrote of coffee's medicinal properties, quote,

577
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: it is a drink that is good for those with

578
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:12,040
Speaker 1: hot nature, but it decreases libido. He was actually kind of,

579
00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 1: from what I understand, famous for these good thing bad

580
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: things about stuff that that's that's good. You're you're covering

581
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: all the bases. I like it. Yeah. Roasting coffee beans

582
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,080
Speaker 1: to make the drink were more familiar with today. Didn't

583
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: become a thing until at least one thousand to twelve

584
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 1: hundred C on the Arabian Peninsula again modern day Yemen,

585
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: where it was highly regarded for the energy it provided

586
00:34:35,360 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: and was particularly popular among the Muslim community. According to

587
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 1: mental Floss, coffee or perhaps coffee leaf tea was sometimes

588
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,320
Speaker 1: passed around at funerals or other events to stay awake

589
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: and alert during long prayer sessions. Folks are growing coffee

590
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: in modern day Egypt, Syria, Turkey and Persia by the

591
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: sixteenth century, and public coffee houses sprung up in cities

592
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 1: in these areas, becoming spaces for all sorts of scial

593
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: interactions of music and games, conversation, news. This earned them

594
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:08,360
Speaker 1: the nickname schools of the Wise, and the first documented

595
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 1: coffee house opened in what's now Istanbul in fifteen fifty four,

596
00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 1: though they probably existed around various places before then. As

597
00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: the Ottoman Empire conquered and spread, and with them Um

598
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: Muslim prohibitions against alcohol, so did a taste for have Um,

599
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 1: literally the wine of Arabia a k a. Coffee. The

600
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:34,239
Speaker 1: Yemeni port city of Mocha was a major trading hub

601
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: for coffee from the fifteen to seventeen centuries. Mocha was

602
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,160
Speaker 1: known for moca beans, highly sought after for their strong

603
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: sort of chocolate flavor, although separate from the chocolate e

604
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,120
Speaker 1: drinks we conflated with these days. Yeah, that was a

605
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,080
Speaker 1: European thing exactly. It does have like a chocolate e

606
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: kind of flavor profile, but it's not what we think

607
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: of it when we hear it, perhaps in our Western parlance.

608
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,840
Speaker 1: The story goes that the Bean Peninsula controlled the coffee

609
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 1: bean market through the end of the fifteen hundreds by

610
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: parching and boiling the beans to make them infertile, and

611
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: as a result, not one coffee plant grew outside of

612
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 1: Africa or Arabia. That changed shortly after the turn of

613
00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: the century, and there are a few legends about how

614
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 1: that went. Some say that an Indian saint by the

615
00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,800
Speaker 1: name of Baba Buddan, who made the pilgrimage to Mecca,

616
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: fell in love with coffee and smuggled seven fertile coffee

617
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 1: beans out, either strapped to his chest or hidden in

618
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: his beard. I like that version, I do too. I

619
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: hope that's the true one. Peter van der Bruck was

620
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,040
Speaker 1: able to sneak some coffee beans out of Mocha into

621
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:46,200
Speaker 1: Amsterdam in sixteen sixteen. The first European owned coffee estate

622
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,200
Speaker 1: got its start in Indonesia. In the late sixteen hundreds,

623
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,920
Speaker 1: the Dutch opened up shop in Sri Lanka and Java.

624
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: The Mayor of Amsterdam gifted King Louis the fourteenth with

625
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: a coffee plant in seventeen fourteen, and the king proceeded

626
00:36:59,920 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 1: to planted in Paris's Royal Botanical gardens, and about a

627
00:37:03,560 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: decade later, a French naval officer, Oh, would you help

628
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: me with the name any Gabrielle? Thanks? Um, Yeah, that

629
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,920
Speaker 1: guy um undertook this arduous journey, allegedly complete with a saboteur,

630
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 1: to Martinique with a seedling from this coffee plant. The

631
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,160
Speaker 1: seedling flourished and spawned over eighteen million coffee plants over

632
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: the next fifty years on Martinique. The Spanish established coffee

633
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 1: in Central America soon after, and the Portuguese after that

634
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: with an estate in Brazil. Legend has it that the

635
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: Portuguese tasked one Francisco de Melo to go to French

636
00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: Guiana in order to obtain a seedling and get in

637
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: on this whole coffee business. Um. The French declined to share,

638
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: but the French governor's wife was so smitten with Francisco

639
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 1: that she bestowed him as a going away present this

640
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: bouquet of flowers, within which they were hidden coffee sprouts.

641
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: Oh no love it um. From those Brazil went on

642
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: to become the biggest heavy hitter in the coffee world.

643
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:13,839
Speaker 1: Um As trade became increasingly global, so did coffee, and unfortunately,

644
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,439
Speaker 1: so so did the populations of enslaved peoples who were

645
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:22,240
Speaker 1: the ones actually growing it. Meanwhile, the first European coffee

646
00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: houses opened in Italy and sixty five and England in

647
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: sixteen fifty, and then in France and sixteen seventy two,

648
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:32,720
Speaker 1: soon followed by most of the rest of Europe. Europeans

649
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: loved these coffee houses. According to legend French poet Voltaire,

650
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 1: who's you know up and around around six drank a

651
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:47,800
Speaker 1: daily forty to fifty cups of coffee. That's dangerous. Voltaire

652
00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: was living on the edge. These cups were very small.

653
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, it could be anyway, We don't know. Uh.

654
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: These coffee houses to became hubs of intelligent discourse. England

655
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,160
Speaker 1: even had what they called Penny Universe. These opinion, got

656
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 1: you a cup of coffee and all the intellectual discourse

657
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: you could ask for. Three hundred of these were up

658
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,440
Speaker 1: and running in London. By the mid seventeenth century, coffee

659
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 1: began to edge out the previous go to breakfast drinks

660
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 1: beer and wine. Also, of notes, women generally weren't allowed

661
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 1: in these coffee houses because they might be exposed to

662
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: foul language or obscene conversation. Parl Clutch. Yes, you can

663
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,719
Speaker 1: see r T episode or tea Time episode from more

664
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: on that. Yeah. Absolutely. Um. Not all Europeans welcomed coffee

665
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,560
Speaker 1: with open arms, though one one review from the time

666
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: labeled it the bitter invention of Satan. Oh yeah, I

667
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 1: might be in through it though right, I'm like, let's

668
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: say about me, color me in at any rate. In

669
00:39:54,920 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: UH sixty five, the Venetian clergy condemned coffee, and the

670
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:05,000
Speaker 1: ensuing uproar called for Pope Clement the Eighth to weigh in,

671
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:09,000
Speaker 1: and after trying some of this you know, coffee beveraging question,

672
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: he deemed that it would not in fact send you

673
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: to hell, and that it was indeed delicious. Um. Purportedly,

674
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: he said, this devil's drink is so delicious, we should

675
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:23,279
Speaker 1: cheat the devil by baptizing it. Jury is still out

676
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 1: on whether this was a literal or metaphorical baptism, or

677
00:40:26,480 --> 00:40:31,120
Speaker 1: if any baptism at all took place. Um. But throughout

678
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: history there have been a few attempts to bann the

679
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: drink Um. One of the first actually took place in

680
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: Mecca in fifteen eleven, due to the governor's fear at

681
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 1: that time that coffee would unite his dissenters who were

682
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,640
Speaker 1: hanging out at coffee houses and talking about politics. Yeah,

683
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:52,359
Speaker 1: and this band lasted mere weeks before being overturned. That's

684
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: actually a common theme throughout these these bands we're going

685
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,959
Speaker 1: to discuss. In sixty three, after Sultan Murad the Fourth

686
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,280
Speaker 1: took the Ottoman thrown, he banned public coffee consumption, particularly

687
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,600
Speaker 1: in the coffee houses in Istanbul. Allegedly, he would wander

688
00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 1: the streets in disguise to find rule breakers to punish.

689
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: Stories about how he punished them are so brutal, like

690
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 1: the stuff of legend. Hard to say what is facts

691
00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: and what isn't. But according to some records, the first

692
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 1: offense called for a beating, while the second called for

693
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: a sewing of the offender into a bag and then

694
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 1: tossing them into the bosporus street. Oh, that's that's a

695
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 1: pretty big step. That is that's a pretty intense. It's

696
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:46,480
Speaker 1: just coffee man. Gosh, just coffee man. Uh. Back in Europe,

697
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: when when coffee started getting popularity there in the six hundreds,

698
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: some winemakers struck back. They were like, oh no, you're

699
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,320
Speaker 1: not taking away our breakfast wine. One wine maker in

700
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,400
Speaker 1: Marseilles enlisted this universe the students to write a thesis

701
00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:04,840
Speaker 1: on why coffee was bad for your health and and

702
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,800
Speaker 1: this this poor student wrote burnt particles, which coffee contains

703
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: in large quantities, have so violent energy that when they

704
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:16,160
Speaker 1: enter the blood, they attract the lymph and dry the kidneys,

705
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: leading to general exhaustion, paralysis, and impotence. Not impotent, anything

706
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: but that. Yeah. Yeah, while it wasn't banned per SAE related,

707
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:31,760
Speaker 1: London women in sixteen seventy four believe drinking coffee rendered

708
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: their husbands impotent and um. Some racist articles came out

709
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:38,680
Speaker 1: against the beverage around the same time. The article that

710
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:42,799
Speaker 1: these women wrote in London is uh often compared to

711
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:49,600
Speaker 1: like the most sexual Mikey Blush Shakespeare passages. Yeah. I

712
00:42:49,640 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: read it and was like, I don't really get it.

713
00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I overall get it, but I feel like

714
00:42:56,239 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: a lot of your your little slight cereal funds are

715
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: going right over my head. Yeah it happens, It's okay. Yeah.

716
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:09,200
Speaker 1: Paranoid Swedish King Gustav the Third Band coffee and coffee

717
00:43:09,200 --> 00:43:13,080
Speaker 1: paraphernalia in seventeen fifty six, They're coming for your coffee cups,

718
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:19,680
Speaker 1: coffee dishes. Uh. So he went a step further. He

719
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 1: was trying to prove that coffee was bad for your health.

720
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,799
Speaker 1: He's trying to use science to his benefit to get

721
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 1: rid of coffee. Um. So he found this pair of

722
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,640
Speaker 1: twin convicts who were since to death, and he instead

723
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 1: gave them the option to live out a life sentence

724
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: so that they could be a part of a coffee experiment. Okay, okay. Basically,

725
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: one twin drank three pots of tea a day and

726
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 1: the other drank three pots of coffee a day, with

727
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: the hopes this whole thing proving coffee will kill you.

728
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:54,960
Speaker 1: So doctors were taking notes of how many cups of

729
00:43:55,000 --> 00:43:57,960
Speaker 1: coffee it would take to kill this oh my god,

730
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: which turned out to be quite anti climactic, as the

731
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 1: chance reportedly outlived the doctors. And not only that, the

732
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: tea drinker died before the coffee drinker did so the

733
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: King's experiment failed. Also a note of this whole thing.

734
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 1: It was very similar in that he was afraid of

735
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,360
Speaker 1: like political discourse and okay, yeah, that's what he was

736
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: paranoid about all of this. Yeah, and then in seventy

737
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:28,800
Speaker 1: Prussia's Frederick the Great declared that beer was officially better

738
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,240
Speaker 1: than coffee and that you should be drinking it instead

739
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,680
Speaker 1: of coffee as part of your balanced breakfast again booze

740
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:39,680
Speaker 1: breakfast upheaval right. Um, this was partially an attempt to

741
00:44:39,719 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: boost Prussia's beer making industry. From the book All About

742
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:48,799
Speaker 1: Coffee by one William Harrison Hooker, h Frederick the Great said,

743
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: it is disgusting to notice the increase in the quantity

744
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: of coffee used by my subjects, and the amount of

745
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: money that goes out of the country. In consequence, everybody

746
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 1: is using coffee. If possible, this must be prevented. My

747
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,359
Speaker 1: people must drink beer. His Majesty was brought up on beer,

748
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 1: and so were his ancestors and his officers. Many battles

749
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,080
Speaker 1: have been fought and won by soldiers nourished on beer,

750
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 1: And the King does not believe that coffee drinking soldiers

751
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 1: can be depended upon to endure hardship or to beat

752
00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: his enemies in the case of the occurrence of another war. Wow. Also,

753
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:35,399
Speaker 1: some of that money which straight to this guy by away, Well, well, um, yeah,

754
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:39,959
Speaker 1: the restrictions were lifted after Frederick the Great death in yeah,

755
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: pretty shortly after. Uh. Coffee made its way to the

756
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,200
Speaker 1: New World by the beginning of the eighteenth century, but

757
00:45:47,239 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 1: it really wasn't a thing here until seventeen seventy three

758
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:57,280
Speaker 1: and the Boston Tea Party. Boston boasted the first coffee

759
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 1: house and what would become the US Circuit sixteen seventy six.

760
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: Out with the tea, In with the coffee. Drinking coffee

761
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: over tea was viewed as patriotic. There's even a famous

762
00:46:10,160 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 1: letter written by John Adams, I believe to his wife

763
00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:15,640
Speaker 1: or he was like, I must wean myself off. Tea

764
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:18,880
Speaker 1: does a matter of patriotism, but it will be difficult.

765
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: I love it. Spit and taxes, spike and tag in taxes. Yeah,

766
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,319
Speaker 1: Thomas Everysing called coffee quote the favorite drink of the

767
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,759
Speaker 1: civilized world. It's kind of surprising, actually, because he was

768
00:46:31,800 --> 00:46:33,919
Speaker 1: such a big fan of wine. But all right, big

769
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 1: ideas were born in coffee asses again, at least in

770
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:40,640
Speaker 1: parts such as the French and American Revolutions and conflicts

771
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:43,480
Speaker 1: like the Civil War helped increase coffee's consumption, as it

772
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: gave soldiers a little bit of pep um. Although, as

773
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 1: we discussed in our Okra episode of all episodes, yeah,

774
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: the South was largely cut off from the coffee supply,

775
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,840
Speaker 1: so Confederate soldiers had to resort to something else. And yes,

776
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: it is Okra related. It is. Check out that episode

777
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:06,319
Speaker 1: if you're fuddled at how that could possibly be. Uh.

778
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelt was rumored to be up there with Voltaire

779
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: in his coffee consumption, downing a gallon a day. One

780
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: story even goes that after he enjoyed some Maxwell House

781
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 1: coffee at Andrew Jackson's historical home, he came up with

782
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 1: the slogan good to the last drop. Huh yes, and

783
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: I think Maxwell House is the coffee of the American Army.

784
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, or at least it was sure Yeah, Um,

785
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 1: I guess. Speaking of John Dring received a patent for

786
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 1: compound coffee in Britain in seventeen seventy one, um, what

787
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 1: we would now call instant coffee. However, it would be

788
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: a century later before it started to take off because

789
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 1: it was honestly kind of terrible. Um. The first commercial

790
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,000
Speaker 1: instant coffee was thought for a long time to be

791
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:55,279
Speaker 1: the product of this Japanese chemist by the name of

792
00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: In but recently a patent for for soluble coffee powder

793
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: dating back to resurfaced from a New Zealander by the

794
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 1: name of David strang Yes. Spanish explorer Don Francisco to

795
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,880
Speaker 1: Palomar and brought coffee to Hawaii in eighteen seventeen, but

796
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:18,759
Speaker 1: his plantings failed. However, he inspired the Royal Governor of

797
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:22,640
Speaker 1: Oahu Bokey, to bring coffee plants from Brazil, and he

798
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: successfully planted them and the Minoa Valley in eighteen five.

799
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:31,000
Speaker 1: From their coffee planting spread throughout the islands in eight

800
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,280
Speaker 1: and American missionary and reverend by the name of Samuel

801
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:38,680
Speaker 1: Ruggles took some cuttings to Kona. The first commercial operation

802
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: was up and running in the mid eighteen thirties. While

803
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,680
Speaker 1: coffee four shure took a backseat to sugar production on

804
00:48:45,719 --> 00:48:48,320
Speaker 1: the islands, it earned a reputation of being a superior

805
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: coffee product. In eighteen sixty six, Mark Twain told the

806
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:57,520
Speaker 1: Sacramento Daily Union ConA coffee has a richer flavor than

807
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 1: any other. Be it grown where it may, and it

808
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:05,760
Speaker 1: by what name you please, okay. A ConA coffee farmers

809
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,560
Speaker 1: showcased some of his product at the eighteen seventy three

810
00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:13,800
Speaker 1: Vienna World's Fair, where it was recognized for its excellence. Meanwhile,

811
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,759
Speaker 1: the first people to sell bags of roasted beans by

812
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,759
Speaker 1: the pound may have been the Arbuckle Brothers out of

813
00:49:19,760 --> 00:49:23,799
Speaker 1: Pittsburgh in eighteen sixty four. That year they purchased some

814
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: self emptying coffee bean roasters, which was this new hot

815
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: invention on the market. They called their coffee ariyosa Um,

816
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 1: and cowboys in the American West were apparently big fans

817
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: bought a whole bunch of it um. By nineteen o six,

818
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: the Arbuckle Brothers were roasting twenty five million pounds of

819
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: coffee a month, and John Arbuckle was known as the

820
00:49:42,280 --> 00:49:47,919
Speaker 1: coffee King Um. Soon after that, James Folger took note

821
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:51,560
Speaker 1: and began selling a similar product, specifically to the California Goldfiners,

822
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,360
Speaker 1: and then Um the Hills Brothers and Maxwell House followed.

823
00:49:55,440 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: Soon after. Going back to y a new strain of

824
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: Guatemalan arabica was in reduced there in eighteen nine two.

825
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,320
Speaker 1: This new varrietal went on to become the most commonly

826
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 1: grown coffee plant. Another change took place at the beginning

827
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:11,520
Speaker 1: of the twentieth century, when many of the large coffee

828
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: plantations parceled out their land to tenant farmers, many of

829
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:20,480
Speaker 1: whom were Japanese immigrants, about eight percent by nineteen ten. Yeah. Um.

830
00:50:20,480 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 1: It was also around this time that European inventors were

831
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:26,360
Speaker 1: working on a way to speed up the coffee brain process.

832
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:29,720
Speaker 1: And you know, just bless their hearts for trying, because

833
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 1: I respect that. UM. In turn, Italy, in eight four one,

834
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:38,239
Speaker 1: Angelo Moriondo filed a patent for a new steam machinery

835
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: for the economic and instantaneous confection of coffee beverage. This

836
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:46,759
Speaker 1: machine often gets credit for being um the first of

837
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: what would become our modern day methods of brewing espresso.

838
00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:54,440
Speaker 1: Other inventors improved upon it over the next century. Again

839
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 1: whole other episode. And as for the coffee maker, um,

840
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 1: that was most likely invented by Melita Bents in nineteen

841
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: o eight. She used a blotting paper as her filter,

842
00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,799
Speaker 1: resulting in a drip coffee that a lot of us

843
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:09,600
Speaker 1: are familiar with today. Yes. When it was established in

844
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 1: nineteen eleven, the National Coffee Association, which was a group

845
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: of growers, roasters, importers, distributors, traders, and retailers became one

846
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:21,320
Speaker 1: of America's first trade associations. Yeah, the demand for coffee

847
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:24,720
Speaker 1: for soldiers during World War One led to innovations around

848
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,280
Speaker 1: instant coffee just said water in the field. It's estimated

849
00:51:28,280 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: American soldiers polished off thousands of pounds of coffee per day.

850
00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: This demand was a huge boost for ConA coffee as well.

851
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 1: Estimates suggest that around two point seven million pounds of

852
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 1: ConA coffee was produced in nineteen sixteen. Nest Cafe launched

853
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:46,600
Speaker 1: in ninety eight, and to this day it is the

854
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 1: most consumed instant coffee in the world, with seventy four

855
00:51:49,760 --> 00:51:52,839
Speaker 1: percent of the market. UH freeze dried coffee came along

856
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:56,920
Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty four, and around the same time interest

857
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 1: in specialty coffee started to take route here in the

858
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:03,400
Speaker 1: United States. In the nineteen sixties or so, I'm leading

859
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:06,040
Speaker 1: to the birth of a chain that you might have

860
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:11,040
Speaker 1: heard of maybe in one Yep. We're talking about Starbucks.

861
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:16,919
Speaker 1: Starbucks is critical and convincing coffee consumers that it's worth

862
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: spending more money on this thing from a place that's

863
00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,400
Speaker 1: different in worthwhile, and the idea of that is predate.

864
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,000
Speaker 1: Starbucks are the especially coffee predates them, and it's just

865
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 1: an idea that this coffee tasted from this coffee, and

866
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,480
Speaker 1: there's special attributes to and we should pay attention to that.

867
00:52:33,640 --> 00:52:37,160
Speaker 1: And how sort of the birth especially coffee, it really

868
00:52:37,200 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: spread well because of companies like Starbucks and Pizza and

869
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,400
Speaker 1: Coffee Beat and te Leaf who just had great outreach.

870
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 1: And that's coincident with the small mom and pop shots

871
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 1: coming out of you know, beating Nick Kippy Age Starbucks.

872
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: Also a whole other episode. Oh gosh, yes, I'm telling you,

873
00:52:57,160 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: we could so many of these opened doors that I

874
00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: wanted to go down. Yeah, we just like saw them

875
00:53:03,160 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 1: swing open and we were like sorry by as we

876
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,239
Speaker 1: continued down the hallway. One day, Yeah, we have to

877
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:13,399
Speaker 1: go to classroom one O, one B right now. Yeah.

878
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:17,880
Speaker 1: The seventies is also when Mr Coffee, the first automatic

879
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 1: homebrewing drip machine, entered the market. And yeah, this interest

880
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 1: and specialty coffee and different ways of consuming it has

881
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 1: led to all kinds of coffee innovations, including this one

882
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:34,759
Speaker 1: right here. But first let's set the scene a little bit. Okay, okay,

883
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 1: there a man by the name of John Sylvan rushed

884
00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 1: to the hospital after experiencing heart attack. Oh yes, but

885
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:50,120
Speaker 1: his diagnosis wasn't a heart attack or a brain injury.

886
00:53:50,520 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 1: So the doctors went through a list of lifestyle questions

887
00:53:53,560 --> 00:53:57,440
Speaker 1: found most of his answers pretty blanched, nothing suggestive. But

888
00:53:57,560 --> 00:54:01,279
Speaker 1: then when the doctors asked Sylvan how much coffee he

889
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 1: had had that morning, he answered thirty or forty cups? Okay,

890
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 1: cups up morning. Yes. So caffeine poison was the culprit

891
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 1: because for three years prior, Sylvan and his business partner

892
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,000
Speaker 1: had been working on a new type of coffee machine.

893
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 1: So caffeine poisoning was a risk that came with a territory. Gosh,

894
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,960
Speaker 1: you don't have to drink all of it, like spit

895
00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:35,080
Speaker 1: cups are a thing, a friend, you know. I in

896
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 1: some ways I appreciate the determination. But they called this

897
00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 1: a new type of coffee machine here egg oh, which

898
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: they got out of a Dutch dictionary, I believe, and

899
00:54:47,120 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 1: it used pods of pre grand coffee to brew a

900
00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: single cup. The original pods they used came from the

901
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 1: same company that made jello shot cups. I love it

902
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 1: today after numerous felt prototypes and rejection from venture capitalists,

903
00:55:03,000 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 1: and also still be in leaving with only about fifty dollars.

904
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:11,920
Speaker 1: Curegg is worth billions of dollars. Of American workplaces use

905
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 1: a CUREG, and one out of every four homebrewing coffee

906
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:22,359
Speaker 1: devices in in the US was Cureg. Yeah. Lately, they

907
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,799
Speaker 1: have come under fire for the amount of waste that

908
00:55:24,880 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: their pods generate. In response, Cureg is pledged that their

909
00:55:29,040 --> 00:55:34,239
Speaker 1: pods will be on recyclable by Starbucks. Is version of

910
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:40,239
Speaker 1: the cureg the very small uh debuted in boasting. I

911
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 1: believe recycable packaging mostly recyclable packaging. So that's also another

912
00:55:44,960 --> 00:55:50,480
Speaker 1: episode we could. Oh gosh, absolutely, I happened to have

913
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 1: seen the inside of a Kurrig office recently, M and

914
00:55:56,719 --> 00:56:01,760
Speaker 1: UH and their walls of coffee selection our sites to behold,

915
00:56:02,360 --> 00:56:06,360
Speaker 1: it is intense. I believe that there are so many flavors. Yeah,

916
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: and they had them. Was this in Boston? Maybe? Maybe not.

917
00:56:11,719 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 1: I like the vagueness. I won't follow up clarifications. You

918
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 1: can live your mystery life, Lauren any rate any rate? Uh. Yeah,

919
00:56:25,719 --> 00:56:28,319
Speaker 1: that about brings us to the present. We do have

920
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 1: some more for you about about this specialty coffee we

921
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 1: keep talking about and about the flavors of coffee. But

922
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 1: first we've got one more quick break for a word

923
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:49,439
Speaker 1: from our sponsor, and we're back. Thank you sponsor, Yes,

924
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:53,479
Speaker 1: thank you. So uh. One thing that Sean was really

925
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:59,680
Speaker 1: passionate about sharing was the disconnect between coffee experts and consumers,

926
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,400
Speaker 1: particularly when it comes to specialty coffee, which are coffees

927
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,760
Speaker 1: that are batch produced instead of mass produced, with particular

928
00:57:07,080 --> 00:57:09,240
Speaker 1: care for the beans and and also for the people

929
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:13,280
Speaker 1: along the supply chain. And all of that is great, amazing,

930
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 1: but it does raise the question how do we quantify

931
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:22,640
Speaker 1: and scientifically measure good versus bad when it comes to taste.

932
00:57:23,240 --> 00:57:28,080
Speaker 1: There's no right answer. That's a truncated version. So who

933
00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:29,840
Speaker 1: gets to make all the rules and say things right?

934
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: That's pretty tricky. But there is a Specialty Coffee Association.

935
00:57:32,440 --> 00:57:36,120
Speaker 1: It is now a global thing, and they in some

936
00:57:36,200 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 1: sense do have a right to sort of lay down

937
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:41,320
Speaker 1: some law, or to lay down some suggestions if you will.

938
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 1: It's kind of taken is law. When you're big enough

939
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 1: and seemed nice enough, that's what happens. And I'm a

940
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:49,080
Speaker 1: member of the community and I participate greatly, and I'm

941
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 1: a big fan. But one of the things that I

942
00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: really struggled with approaching this is from a scientific perspective?

943
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 1: Is this idea of what good and bad was? And

944
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 1: and how do we talk about what we're tasting? Who

945
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: eventually gets to the side what it's good a bad is? Right?

946
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:07,920
Speaker 1: It sort of stemmed from this notion that you go

947
00:58:07,960 --> 00:58:09,640
Speaker 1: into a liquor store to buy a bottle of wine

948
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: and they got all these numbers on them, and the

949
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 1: presumption is that the higher the number, the better it is.

950
00:58:13,400 --> 00:58:14,680
Speaker 1: But then you get it and you might not be

951
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:16,160
Speaker 1: that excited about it, or you might like the lower

952
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: number better, or it doesn't make any sense to you.

953
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:20,960
Speaker 1: And but there's a there's a fallacy going on nobody

954
00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:25,160
Speaker 1: talks about. And if you dig deep enough, what's happening

955
00:58:25,280 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: is the the people who make these scales and the

956
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 1: scoring systems and these numberings, right that were the close

957
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 1: you get too hundred, the better it is. It's really subjective,

958
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 1: and there's nothing wrong with the subjective analysis of something

959
00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:42,960
Speaker 1: or a subjective conversation about something. It's important to say

960
00:58:43,000 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 1: I like this or not. But if you're trying to

961
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: say I like this a lot, I'm gonna get a

962
00:58:49,840 --> 00:58:52,520
Speaker 1: higher number and therefore everybody else should think it's better

963
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 1: and higher's been worthwhile. Well, what are you really saying.

964
00:58:56,720 --> 00:58:58,680
Speaker 1: You're not saying anything about the product. You're saying something

965
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,480
Speaker 1: about the preference of the user. And the problem with

966
00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:04,480
Speaker 1: experts is that they don't like simple things anymore. Right

967
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:07,840
Speaker 1: they drink They started with folders or Budweiser boxwine right

968
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: when it was cheap and affordable and got him the

969
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:13,040
Speaker 1: kick they needed. They slowly found that was okay, and

970
00:59:13,080 --> 00:59:15,760
Speaker 1: they explored a little bit. Oh this coffee thing is

971
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 1: yell me, I like the flavor of coffee. After why

972
00:59:17,720 --> 00:59:20,360
Speaker 1: the flavor of coffee is boring? So you want more things,

973
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: So you keep increasing its complexity level to a point

974
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: where it doesn't really taste like coffee anymore. And then

975
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,760
Speaker 1: the experts say, oh, this is their good stuff, and

976
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:31,560
Speaker 1: then someone comes and drinks it and says, this doesn't

977
00:59:31,600 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 1: taste like coffee. I don't understand. And there is a

978
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 1: formal definition of especially coffee. There's a under point scale

979
00:59:38,120 --> 00:59:41,800
Speaker 1: and people use it, but I think it's terrible system

980
00:59:41,840 --> 00:59:45,560
Speaker 1: for communication because of this inherent problem with the subjectivity.

981
00:59:46,080 --> 00:59:48,040
Speaker 1: But it's easy to say, oh, this is an eight five,

982
00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 1: and that can convey some information. It's really hard to say, well,

983
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:56,000
Speaker 1: this tastes like walnuts and flowers and coffee and has

984
00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:57,520
Speaker 1: a lot of acidity, and it kind of tastes like

985
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: Jim socks. That just takes longer, and it's confusing for

986
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:04,640
Speaker 1: people to think about those things because the reality is

987
01:00:04,760 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 1: we don't learn to talk about our experiences. This can

988
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 1: be a problem when your job involves taste testing and

989
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: describing coffee one thing that I'm notoriously bad hat. That's

990
01:00:17,040 --> 01:00:20,320
Speaker 1: why experts use a method called coffee cupping in order

991
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:24,560
Speaker 1: to professionally evaluate coffee, although it can be done informally

992
01:00:24,960 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 1: um if for anyone who's interested. It's very similar to

993
01:00:28,360 --> 01:00:31,840
Speaker 1: wine tasting and similarly valuable when it comes to rating

994
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 1: something that is often so subjective. So the more we

995
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:38,040
Speaker 1: cannot be human, the better off we are, because humans

996
01:00:38,040 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 1: are wonderful. We think, and we feel, and we interact

997
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:43,320
Speaker 1: and we were laughing all morning. But we're really terrible

998
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 1: at being instruments because of those things, because we think,

999
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:50,560
Speaker 1: can we feel. So if we can create situations that

1000
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:55,200
Speaker 1: are not typical of being a human, it helps us

1001
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:57,640
Speaker 1: be it's human. So we're all drinking coffee, right now

1002
01:00:57,960 --> 01:00:59,720
Speaker 1: and we're drinking out of cups and it's fun and

1003
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:02,560
Speaker 1: we're thing, we're engaging conversation. And I had coffee this

1004
01:01:02,600 --> 01:01:05,040
Speaker 1: morning with my daughter while she was eating her own

1005
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:08,000
Speaker 1: me on it breakfast. And every time we do something

1006
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,920
Speaker 1: as humans, we capture part of it in our minds

1007
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,320
Speaker 1: and it it maternalized, it becomes part of us, and

1008
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:16,800
Speaker 1: it's just is always there. So if I'm trying to

1009
01:01:16,800 --> 01:01:18,920
Speaker 1: evaluate this cup of coffee, I'm going to bring a

1010
01:01:18,920 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: little bit of all my past experiences of holding a

1011
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:23,760
Speaker 1: mug and drinking it with me. So wouldn't it be

1012
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 1: better if I had a way of drinking coffee that

1013
01:01:26,320 --> 01:01:30,160
Speaker 1: I only did when I was trying to be an instrument?

1014
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,280
Speaker 1: Sure enough, I never drink coffee for fun with a spoon.

1015
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 1: I suspect most people don't. So cupping has this magical

1016
01:01:37,040 --> 01:01:39,880
Speaker 1: ability to let us have this system of oh, I'm

1017
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: only tasting and experiencing this as a taster. There's also

1018
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:45,640
Speaker 1: so lots of other things we should do, but right

1019
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:50,760
Speaker 1: there's scientific precision versus industry practicality. That's there's a statement

1020
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:53,800
Speaker 1: to make, another conversation to have. So that's the most

1021
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 1: important thing cupping does and I want to tie in

1022
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:00,680
Speaker 1: this idea about good versus bad and a sports versus

1023
01:02:00,720 --> 01:02:05,600
Speaker 1: normal drinker. Experts are people who want an intellectual and

1024
01:02:05,640 --> 01:02:09,160
Speaker 1: emotional challenge from the product that they're consuming because they're

1025
01:02:09,160 --> 01:02:12,720
Speaker 1: bored with the paradigm of that thing. So they don't

1026
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: want coffee to taste like coffee. They want coffee taste

1027
01:02:14,840 --> 01:02:18,120
Speaker 1: like something else because they're bored with coffee taste. But

1028
01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 1: as we've talked about, what happens is that experts are

1029
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:23,720
Speaker 1: the ones who have their own soapboxes and they say,

1030
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: this is what good is, this is what we like,

1031
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:29,360
Speaker 1: this is the amazing stuff found appreciation of what people

1032
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 1: actually want to drink. All right, more people buy folders

1033
01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:33,880
Speaker 1: than buy slush to coffee. That says something about what

1034
01:02:33,920 --> 01:02:36,760
Speaker 1: people want. So who is an expert to say what

1035
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,000
Speaker 1: good or badness? Right? That shouldn't be the role of

1036
01:02:39,040 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 1: the expert. The expert's rule should be this is what

1037
01:02:41,840 --> 01:02:44,760
Speaker 1: this is based on what you know about you, what

1038
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 1: I know about you, this is probably what you like.

1039
01:02:47,600 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 1: And you can conclude all those factors of accessibility and

1040
01:02:50,720 --> 01:02:53,000
Speaker 1: price and effort to produce it in your home or

1041
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 1: your restaurant or whatever. But the problem with our culture

1042
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 1: is that, Oh, if there's an expert, and the expert

1043
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:01,600
Speaker 1: knows what's going on, and expert we trust, then I

1044
01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 1: should be somehow adhering to that. And that's ridiculous because

1045
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:08,320
Speaker 1: you are allowed to like what you like, and we're

1046
01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: all gonna like different things, and you should let somebody

1047
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 1: else tell you what you should like. Now, with time

1048
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,439
Speaker 1: and patience, you might try a product and then move

1049
01:03:15,520 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 1: into a different aspect of it, get a more complex

1050
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:21,320
Speaker 1: version to please you. But you may not. Just because

1051
01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:23,280
Speaker 1: an expert says, drink your coffee black doesn't mean you

1052
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:25,919
Speaker 1: should ever try black and drink it black. Short our

1053
01:03:25,960 --> 01:03:28,440
Speaker 1: hearts of coffee experts, we all want everybody to appreciate

1054
01:03:28,440 --> 01:03:32,720
Speaker 1: the way we do. But that's selfish and ridiculous. And

1055
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: even though I fall in that trap sometimes and I

1056
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,720
Speaker 1: complimented everybody here in this room about drinking their coffee black,

1057
01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:40,120
Speaker 1: you know there's a there's a piece of us that

1058
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:43,919
Speaker 1: that that admires that. But experts are just people who

1059
01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:47,720
Speaker 1: like what they like. Their understanding of something is greater,

1060
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:52,200
Speaker 1: maybe deeper, than non experts, but that doesn't make them

1061
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:56,000
Speaker 1: their opinion about something's taste any better or worse than yours.

1062
01:03:57,160 --> 01:04:00,440
Speaker 1: So there's no right answer, and there's no you have

1063
01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:04,560
Speaker 1: to like. But people should be I mean a sense right,

1064
01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:06,800
Speaker 1: be yourself. It's it's sort of the message there. I

1065
01:04:06,800 --> 01:04:09,160
Speaker 1: think that's really important. I think the coffee industry would

1066
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:12,120
Speaker 1: do much better for itself if it gave a message

1067
01:04:12,120 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 1: of inclusivity versus exclusivity. There's a really amazing coffee person

1068
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:21,400
Speaker 1: based on the named James Hoffman, and he's it's a

1069
01:04:21,400 --> 01:04:23,480
Speaker 1: shame you can't interview him. He has so many wonderful

1070
01:04:23,520 --> 01:04:25,520
Speaker 1: things about coffee all the time, just left him to pieces.

1071
01:04:26,760 --> 01:04:31,360
Speaker 1: And he was giving your talk on about behaviors of

1072
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:34,200
Speaker 1: coffee shops. And you know, secretly all this coffee people

1073
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:37,200
Speaker 1: say drink your coffee black. We really want that, but

1074
01:04:37,720 --> 01:04:39,280
Speaker 1: we don't promote that. What we do is we give

1075
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:43,120
Speaker 1: away milk and sugar in our cafes. Don't do this thing.

1076
01:04:43,200 --> 01:04:44,920
Speaker 1: But here have this free thing that you're not supposed

1077
01:04:44,960 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: to do. That's pretty insightful, and in fact, you actually

1078
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:52,280
Speaker 1: want to go more insightful. My own insite to try

1079
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 1: and play at James's level. Um with black drip coffee, right,

1080
01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:01,400
Speaker 1: it's frowned upon ed milk but with espresso based strings,

1081
01:05:01,440 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 1: we have competitions that celebrate adding milk to coffee. Espresso

1082
01:05:07,160 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: is just coffee. Why is it okay to add milk

1083
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:12,560
Speaker 1: there but not in my drip. It's a weird dynamic

1084
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:14,720
Speaker 1: that we're stuck in our in our rut and we

1085
01:05:14,760 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 1: don't see a bigger picture and coffee. Of course, part

1086
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:24,040
Speaker 1: of that bigger picture isn't just including average consumers in

1087
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:28,200
Speaker 1: the conversation. It's also including the growers. Um we promised

1088
01:05:28,200 --> 01:05:30,040
Speaker 1: we would come back to that dark side of coffee

1089
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 1: that we mentioned earlier. It's a good time. It's a

1090
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:34,760
Speaker 1: it's a good time to have It's always been a

1091
01:05:34,760 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 1: good time to have the common it's always been important

1092
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:38,520
Speaker 1: time to have a conversation. Now it's really a good

1093
01:05:38,520 --> 01:05:45,360
Speaker 1: time and coffee industry. Coffee involved in Ethiopia where it

1094
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:48,080
Speaker 1: was consumed in various ways for a long time, and

1095
01:05:48,200 --> 01:05:50,760
Speaker 1: left Ethiopia went to Yemen, and it through Yemen that

1096
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:54,040
Speaker 1: the world discovered coffee and Yemen had control it for

1097
01:05:54,080 --> 01:05:58,760
Speaker 1: a while. Eventually the Western power has got ahold of it.

1098
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:02,400
Speaker 1: And I didn't want to have to pay what they

1099
01:06:02,400 --> 01:06:05,480
Speaker 1: were paying from Africa and the Middle East to have

1100
01:06:05,560 --> 01:06:08,400
Speaker 1: their coffee. And there are Western powers at the time

1101
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 1: who had lots of guns and lots of colonies, so

1102
01:06:13,200 --> 01:06:15,680
Speaker 1: coffee became a product that they took to their colonies

1103
01:06:15,720 --> 01:06:17,960
Speaker 1: to have and to make lots of money off of

1104
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 1: all of South America, Southeast Asia, Indonesia, anywhere coffee is

1105
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:29,160
Speaker 1: grown that's not Africa basically came from a Western power

1106
01:06:29,160 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 1: who wanted to have coffee cheaply, like spices or anything else.

1107
01:06:33,280 --> 01:06:35,480
Speaker 1: And this is all started a time when slavery was

1108
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:39,800
Speaker 1: perfectly okay, and whether the slaves or slave labor didn't matter.

1109
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:45,200
Speaker 1: So coffee became the backbone of many economies because of

1110
01:06:45,280 --> 01:06:51,600
Speaker 1: powerful Western powers. Slowly, of course, all the that those

1111
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:56,000
Speaker 1: relationships shifted and all those places are now independent, that

1112
01:06:56,080 --> 01:07:00,920
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that the the base of the system change

1113
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 1: or improved. And part of the issue is that lots

1114
01:07:03,560 --> 01:07:07,280
Speaker 1: and lots of places grow coffee. So there's some depending

1115
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:08,919
Speaker 1: on how you define it, right, there's some eighty odd

1116
01:07:08,920 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 1: countries if you go look at the world figures that

1117
01:07:11,440 --> 01:07:15,040
Speaker 1: produce coffee, and probably between fifty and sixty of them

1118
01:07:15,080 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 1: that produce it to sell as a commodity. So fifty

1119
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 1: or sixty countries is you know about a quarter of

1120
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:24,520
Speaker 1: the world's countries. Yeah, there's a range of coffees that

1121
01:07:24,520 --> 01:07:26,640
Speaker 1: are girl, but on the global scale, that's a lot

1122
01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,640
Speaker 1: of coffee being produced. A lot of drinkers, mind you,

1123
01:07:29,800 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 1: but that's a lot of coffee being produced. And when

1124
01:07:32,760 --> 01:07:37,200
Speaker 1: you have that much being produced, it's basically a commodity.

1125
01:07:38,160 --> 01:07:40,960
Speaker 1: And it's not like the individual farmer who might not

1126
01:07:41,080 --> 01:07:42,720
Speaker 1: be literate and lives in the middle of nowhere with

1127
01:07:42,720 --> 01:07:46,120
Speaker 1: no running water and has no education, is going to

1128
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:48,240
Speaker 1: stand up for himself and say, no, my coffee is better.

1129
01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 1: It demands a higher price. Right. They have their hands

1130
01:07:51,280 --> 01:07:53,080
Speaker 1: tied in many ways about how they can deal with that.

1131
01:07:54,280 --> 01:07:58,960
Speaker 1: And so you've got this global competition. Your neighbor's coffee,

1132
01:07:59,480 --> 01:08:01,680
Speaker 1: my neighbors, I mean one country next to another will

1133
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:06,640
Speaker 1: have somewhat different economic systems, but they're all gonna suffer

1134
01:08:06,720 --> 01:08:10,400
Speaker 1: from this global commodity issue. And there is a global

1135
01:08:10,400 --> 01:08:14,680
Speaker 1: commodity price for coffee, and it fluctuates, and it's not

1136
01:08:14,760 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 1: just how much coffee is available to sell and who

1137
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:21,559
Speaker 1: gets denoted. There's the futures market, and there's investors, and

1138
01:08:21,600 --> 01:08:25,520
Speaker 1: there's big companies planning ahead, and there's guessing what the

1139
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 1: feel is going to be this year, next year, and

1140
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:29,720
Speaker 1: there's all the mess of commodities that coffee suffers through,

1141
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:36,599
Speaker 1: and there's no incentive by anyone who has the power

1142
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:39,040
Speaker 1: to make a difference to make a difference, because the

1143
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:41,560
Speaker 1: difference to make is to give more money to the fires.

1144
01:08:41,600 --> 01:08:48,160
Speaker 1: But that's not how capitalism works, so that doesn't change

1145
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:51,040
Speaker 1: in any way. And what tends to happen is that

1146
01:08:51,720 --> 01:08:55,000
Speaker 1: this global c price for coffee goes up and down

1147
01:08:55,000 --> 01:08:58,200
Speaker 1: every time, and currently as we are speaking, it's incredibly low.

1148
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:02,840
Speaker 1: We're in crisis of crisis mode being it cost a

1149
01:09:02,880 --> 01:09:04,720
Speaker 1: farmer more to produce their coffee and they can sell

1150
01:09:04,720 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 1: it for and most companies because we have this third

1151
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:13,600
Speaker 1: party see market commodity, no one's really a fault for

1152
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 1: thing like big people just say, oh, that's just the

1153
01:09:16,240 --> 01:09:19,759
Speaker 1: way the system works, without saying a system is really

1154
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 1: not helping the people who need help, Like I'm buying

1155
01:09:22,560 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 1: this thing from people who are in crisis with their

1156
01:09:24,840 --> 01:09:26,840
Speaker 1: lives and I don't really care because you know they're

1157
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:30,360
Speaker 1: far away, and this is very like you know, neat

1158
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 1: package version. I'm giving you one of his proposed solutions,

1159
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:38,080
Speaker 1: pay more for coffee, that's a good start buying coffee

1160
01:09:38,080 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 1: from sources that really seem to be buying more directly

1161
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,679
Speaker 1: from a farmer, that are really focusing on quality and stories,

1162
01:09:46,000 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 1: so that if you're being drawn in by marketing, it's

1163
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:50,960
Speaker 1: probably a good coffee to buy. I sort of hate

1164
01:09:50,960 --> 01:09:52,160
Speaker 1: to say that because I don't want to be about

1165
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:56,760
Speaker 1: the marketing, But if some roaster or companies is telling

1166
01:09:56,800 --> 01:09:59,400
Speaker 1: you about this farmer they've met, or the picture that

1167
01:09:59,439 --> 01:10:02,720
Speaker 1: they're showing this farmer or somehow this experience, well there's

1168
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:05,920
Speaker 1: a lot of marketing kuha around that there probably is

1169
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,240
Speaker 1: some better money going because you know, everybody has to

1170
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 1: make more money for that to work. We're always a

1171
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:14,040
Speaker 1: proponent of knowing where the things we consume come from

1172
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:19,599
Speaker 1: and the people don't yeh um. And that about brings

1173
01:10:19,680 --> 01:10:23,280
Speaker 1: us to the end of this episode. Oh man, so

1174
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:27,160
Speaker 1: many other topics to return to. Yes, yes, yes, yes,

1175
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:31,760
Speaker 1: I oh gosh, oh gosh. Indeed, we were just discussing

1176
01:10:31,800 --> 01:10:35,639
Speaker 1: before we came in, how the cravings of this episode

1177
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:40,240
Speaker 1: we're not helpful in our overall goal to consume less

1178
01:10:40,360 --> 01:10:44,200
Speaker 1: coffee because every time I finish a cup like I like,

1179
01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:46,120
Speaker 1: I would just be like, oh more coffee research, and

1180
01:10:46,120 --> 01:10:50,120
Speaker 1: they will be like coffee exactly. There's something so ritualistic

1181
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:53,880
Speaker 1: about it too, like comforting I'm starting off the day,

1182
01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:57,040
Speaker 1: or like it's warm, it's kind of it's it's refreshing,

1183
01:10:57,120 --> 01:10:59,160
Speaker 1: It gives you that hap, it gives you that dopamine.

1184
01:10:59,160 --> 01:11:02,559
Speaker 1: That's like all everything it's going to be just okay. Yeah,

1185
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:08,080
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, yeah, I do find that. And I

1186
01:11:08,120 --> 01:11:10,440
Speaker 1: know we've done an episode on this before, not specifically,

1187
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:14,519
Speaker 1: but os is in our massive company. Um, after I

1188
01:11:14,560 --> 01:11:19,559
Speaker 1: have coffee, I frequently get really tired, like thirty minutes later,

1189
01:11:20,200 --> 01:11:21,760
Speaker 1: And if I can write it out, I'm fine. But

1190
01:11:22,400 --> 01:11:25,320
Speaker 1: I know several people in the office has said they

1191
01:11:25,400 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 1: experienced the same thing where they get tired after having

1192
01:11:30,600 --> 01:11:35,559
Speaker 1: so another thing to come back so much so much science. Yes,

1193
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:39,360
Speaker 1: and if there's any particular aspect of coffee science or

1194
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:45,720
Speaker 1: coffee machinery or coffee types or creus Turkish, all of

1195
01:11:45,760 --> 01:11:49,800
Speaker 1: this coffee like ceremonies stuff like that, yes, please write

1196
01:11:49,800 --> 01:11:51,280
Speaker 1: in if you want us to do any episodes around that,

1197
01:11:51,360 --> 01:11:53,439
Speaker 1: or if you have any information you'd like to share

1198
01:11:53,640 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 1: around that, and you can do that via our email.

1199
01:11:58,479 --> 01:12:01,400
Speaker 1: It is Hello at Saber dot com. Or you can

1200
01:12:01,439 --> 01:12:04,320
Speaker 1: find us on social media. We are on Twitter, Instagram,

1201
01:12:04,360 --> 01:12:07,360
Speaker 1: and Facebook at Saver Pod. We do hope to hear

1202
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:10,759
Speaker 1: from you. Thanks as always to our superproducers Dylan Fagan

1203
01:12:10,800 --> 01:12:14,160
Speaker 1: and Andrew Howard, and our executive producer Christopher Hassiotis and

1204
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:19,639
Speaker 1: Sean dr Coffee um uh. If you would like to

1205
01:12:19,680 --> 01:12:22,880
Speaker 1: hear more from Sean, check out those books. His books

1206
01:12:22,920 --> 01:12:26,240
Speaker 1: are The Hawaii Coffee Book, a gourmets Guide from Kona

1207
01:12:26,320 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 1: to Kauai. Then also Coffee, A Comprehensive Guide to the being,

1208
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:34,200
Speaker 1: the beverage and the industry. And then also The Little

1209
01:12:34,240 --> 01:12:37,240
Speaker 1: Coffee Know It All, a miscellany for growing, roasting and brewing,

1210
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 1: uncompromising and unapologetic. Yeah yeah, check those out. Um. Thanks

1211
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:46,040
Speaker 1: also to Michelle McGowan, Rice of the Hawaii Food and

1212
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:49,280
Speaker 1: Wine Festival, Joy Goto and Maria Hartfield of the Hawaii

1213
01:12:49,360 --> 01:12:52,920
Speaker 1: Visitors and Convention Bureau, and particularly in this case, Don

1214
01:12:52,920 --> 01:12:56,080
Speaker 1: Sakamoto Piva of Put It on My Plate for putting

1215
01:12:56,120 --> 01:12:58,799
Speaker 1: us in touch with Sean and all of our other guests.

1216
01:12:59,240 --> 01:13:01,800
Speaker 1: Um Savor the production of I Heart Radio and Stuff Media.

1217
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:03,960
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, you can visit

1218
01:13:03,960 --> 01:13:06,799
Speaker 1: to the I heart Radio, app, Apple podcasts, or wherever

1219
01:13:06,920 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks to you for listening,

1220
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:11,519
Speaker 1: and we hope that lots more good things are coming

1221
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 1: your way. They called their coffee Ario sa It's Ario

1222
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:37,880
Speaker 1: sa Ario sa