WEBVTT - What's Happening in Syria 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:06.640 Also media. Okay, hi everyone, and welcome to it could 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:09.479 happen here today. We're very lucky to be joined by 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:14.360 Vladimir von Bildenberg, who's an underground journalist who covers Syria, 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:17.159 and Curtis Dan has written two books, including one on 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:21.000 the alliance between the SDF and the Coalition. Is that 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:27.280 is that a fair introduction in Vladimir, Yeah, okay, thank you, 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:29.680 thank you so much for joining us. There has obviously 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:32.400 been a massive increase, in a massive change in the 0:00:32.440 --> 0:00:35.440 conflict in Syria in the last week or so, just 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:39.360 under a week, and I think the information that's available 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:43.920 to people is often very bad, very delayed, or one 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:47.760 side or rather putting out propaganda things which mischaracterized the 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:51.480 situation on the ground, especially with regard to the Syrian 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:53.960 National Army, who we're going to talk about. Would you 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:59.000 mind giving us a sort of very brief explanation of 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:03.640 what has happened since last Wednesday when HTS, who will 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.640 have to explain later, launch their operation against Aleppo. 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:11.400 Well, in general, I mean the current situation Aleppo came 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:14.440 to a surprise too many many people didn't expect it. 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:19.720 So just after the ceasefire in Lebanon, the Hayata te Rocham, 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:23.040 which is an offshoot of al Qaeda. So they said 0:01:23.040 --> 0:01:25.120 they don't have relations with al Qaida anymore. They split 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:28.720 off from al Qaeda. They launched a big operation in 0:01:28.760 --> 0:01:32.880 Aleppo against the Serian government or the same regime, whatever 0:01:32.920 --> 0:01:36.360 you want to call it. I think initially they didn't 0:01:36.400 --> 0:01:38.720 think that they would go so far, all the way 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:44.560 into Alappo city. There have been agreements between Russia, Iran, 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:49.680 and Turkey and Syria in Astana about the deconflection zone 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:54.920 in the northwestern province of Italy. So the HTS insurgents, 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:58.920 they claim they launched this operation towards Aleppo in response 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.960 to violation of this Astana agreement. So according to that agreement, 0:02:02.480 --> 0:02:04.720 this area will be in control of the HDS and 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:06.520 the other area will be control of the regime and 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:09.320 they wouldn't bother each other. But this agreement was never 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:12.640 really implemented, I mean versus Russia. They were constantly bombing it. 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:17.200 Sometimes the HTS would attack regime positions. Also according to 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:21.200 this deconfliction zone, actually the Serian government and reining back 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:24.880 armed groups they went actually in that the deconfliction zone 0:02:24.960 --> 0:02:28.760 was supposed to be controlled by the Seerian insurgents. So 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:32.000 they launched this operation in response to the they say 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:35.720 the violations by the Serian government, and I think because 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:38.960 when they realized that the defenses of the Serian government 0:02:39.120 --> 0:02:41.440 very weak, they pushed further into Aleppo and it was 0:02:41.440 --> 0:02:44.239 not really planned to take the city of Aleppo, although 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:47.920 there's also a video of Jiulani, the leader of HDS, 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:50.560 saying that my brothers, one day we're going to be 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.000 an Aleppo. So maybe it was planned. We don't know 0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:55.800 really for sure, but the fact is that the Syrian 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:59.919 government defenses collapsed, and for some people in the reg 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:02.720 that was sort of reminded of the days of Mussol 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:07.000 when the Iraqi army they fled Mussol in twenty thirteen fourteen, 0:03:07.040 --> 0:03:09.960 and then Isis took over, although the ht has really 0:03:10.000 --> 0:03:13.320 denied that they are similar to ISIS, although they have 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:17.120 a similar Islamish ideology. So they took the city of 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:20.840 Aleppo in three days, and they have been trying to 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:24.560 go up towards Hama, a city more up. So far 0:03:24.600 --> 0:03:26.640 they haven't been able to take the city. And on 0:03:26.680 --> 0:03:28.720 the other hand, you also have another group called the 0:03:28.720 --> 0:03:32.400 Seran National Army, which is groups composed of basic groups 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:36.760 that were supported by the Turkish government. They also started 0:03:36.800 --> 0:03:41.520 to move. They also started to carry out operations against 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.960 Kurdish lad Forces also known as the Cerrian Democratic Forces. 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:45.280 Of the YPG. 0:03:45.880 --> 0:03:48.320 And also they started to do operations against the Syrian 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:53.320 government in above Albab and also in northern Aleppo. And 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:57.440 they took also several towns in northern Aleppo. And also they. 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.480 Advanced and I think their main reach of that. 0:04:00.600 --> 0:04:04.200 So while the HDS is primarily mostly fighting against the 0:04:04.240 --> 0:04:07.120 Syrian government, I think the Serian National Army, because it's 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:09.920 back by Turkey, they also have an interest to undermine 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:13.280 the Syrian Democratic Forces because Turkey in the past they 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:15.480 have said they don't want to have a second Kurdish 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.640 autonomous region in the region, because you have already won 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:23.560 in Iraq, which was became recognized after the fall of 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:25.520 the damp, So you have a Kurdistan region in Iraq, 0:04:26.080 --> 0:04:28.239 and Turkey was sort of afraid to have a second 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:32.200 Kurdistan region in Syria, especially because it's created by a 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:34.280 group which has ideological. 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:35.880 Affiliation with the pik Ak with. 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.000 They followed the idology of the imprisoned leader of the 0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:41.839 pik A k Abdulachalan, which Turkey sees is. 0:04:41.839 --> 0:04:42.839 A terrorist organization. 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:47.040 So it's very complex, which we always keep saying about Syria, 0:04:47.760 --> 0:04:50.280 but you basically have two different operations. You have the 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.280 Turkish back groups that are trying to stop the Kurts 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:57.440 from linking up with Aleppo, and then you have the HDS, 0:04:57.480 --> 0:05:00.880 the Islamist groups that are trying to go up and 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.880 they already took Aleapo and they also took many areas 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.240 in the countryside of Hama, and actually they now control 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:09.520 all of province. So in the past the certain government 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.200 they control some parts of lip but now they control 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:16.000 the it's as they control all of Yeah. 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:18.680 So I think if we start by looking, I think 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:21.680 most people who listen to this will be familiar with 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:25.479 the SDF, with the Autonomous Administration in North East Syria, 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:30.800 and with the ri Java Revolution, and they'll be wondering. 0:05:30.960 --> 0:05:33.520 Kind of the question I get mostly is like how 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:37.520 does this impact that? That's what people are asking. So 0:05:38.320 --> 0:05:40.760 with that in mind, I think we should explain. Perhaps 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.120 we've talked before in this show about Operation Piece Spring, 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:49.160 Euphretty Shield and these Turkish incursions into previously SDF controlled 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:53.400 areas and the genocide or violence that accompanied that, or 0:05:53.880 --> 0:05:57.120 ethnic cleansing, however you want to phrase it. Can you 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:01.080 explain what's happened in the areas where they have advanced 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:04.680 and like what that's meant for the Kurdish people who 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:07.400 lived there or in some cases are still there. 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:11.080 Yeah, in the in the northern Aleppo and Aleppo City, 0:06:11.160 --> 0:06:14.920 so you have two Kurdish neighborhoods called Ashrafiya and Chech Maksut. 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.559 There are around one hundred to two hundred thousand people 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:21.000 living there. Then you have also two small Kurdish towns 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:24.560 called Tel Aran and Tel Hassel, which have changed hands 0:06:24.960 --> 0:06:27.840 constantly during the Serian Civil War between the YPG, the 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.240 Syrian government and Iran, then by the rebels done by 0:06:31.320 --> 0:06:34.120 ISIS than by al Kaida, like it was a big messah. 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:37.600 Then you have also you have like Kurts. 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.920 That were displaced from Afrine because Turkey they carried out 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.080 an operation against the YPG in twenty eighteen. So you 0:06:43.160 --> 0:06:47.360 have thousands of Kurts that left Afrine. So the statistics 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:49.840 are a bit unclear, but at least there were around 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:53.640 ten thousand IDPs living in camps in northern Aleppo, and 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:56.279 you also have people living outside of the camp, so 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:00.000 the statistics are always a bit unclear, but it's they 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:03.400 now say that they were around ten thousand families that 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.800 were displaced, so they were already displaced from Afrine before. 0:07:07.440 --> 0:07:10.320 And there's this town of Tara Aphad, which has been 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:14.600 a strategic location in Aleppo because it was sort of 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:17.960 like opening up the way to Aleppo City and the 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:22.120 Kurdish back forces they took actually this town with Russian 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:25.760 support from the Turkish back rebels, so they had like 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:29.880 grievances about this town, but Turkey even during the Afrine 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:32.840 operation they didn't get the green light to take this 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.800 town from the Kurkish back groups. Also, the Syrian government 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:39.280 was there by the way after dreamings, so this town 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:43.280 always was like a focal point of contention between the 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:47.920 Kurts and the Syrian insurgents. So what happened after HCS 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:52.720 took Aleppo the Syrian National Army with the backing of Turkey, 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:56.360 they moved on towards Teara Lapad. And also because in 0:07:56.400 --> 0:07:59.120 the past there was more balance in Aleppo because you 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:01.800 have also two small towns called Mumble and Zahara. 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:04.200 They were like prominently. 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:08.400 Inhabited by people from the Shia religion, so there were 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:10.680 Iranian back groups there and they were in the back 0:08:10.720 --> 0:08:12.920 of Telarafad, so they were sort of as a balance. 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:15.320 So they sort of like the curves, were. 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:17.920 Able to hold out in Tarapad despite like many offensive 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:21.560 by the Turkish back groups. So what happened because of 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:24.760 basically all the Syrian government, they were removed from Aleppo 0:08:24.800 --> 0:08:27.120 and as a result, like they were very weakend and 0:08:27.120 --> 0:08:31.680 completely isolated. I mean until now there's Kurtish forces in 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:35.520 Astrophia and Czech Masud, but they're completely surrounded and embargoed 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:39.120 by the HTS, which is not something new because before 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.760 this conflict, this new renewed conflict in Aleppo, the Syrian 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.040 government was also imposing embargoes on those two neighborhoods, not 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:50.720 allowing food and topping electricity and bothering people at checkpoints 0:08:50.760 --> 0:08:54.000 because they had like always issues with the Kurtish led 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:56.160 forces because they're sort of in the Syrian Civil War, 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:58.120 they have always played sort of a third role, like 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.000 they want to have their autonomy. Then you have the 0:09:01.040 --> 0:09:04.000 Shiran armed groups. They are trying to topple the Syrian government, 0:09:04.160 --> 0:09:06.400 and then you had the Syrian government trying to stop 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:10.000 this from happening. And then yeah, the Kurtish led forces 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:13.719 were trying to create the autonomous administration and they got 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:16.400 some support from the US in the fight against ISIS 0:09:16.400 --> 0:09:20.520 since the Battle of Kovaniyah. So yeah, this is like 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:23.400 the situation a lepos. So now what happened is that 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:26.960 thea fat were in twenty sixteen, the Parabs of Telfa, 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.480 they fled actually this after as the FYPG took this down. 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:34.280 So now the Seen rebels they took this down, and. 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:36.680 This time that the people that fled from after into 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:38.640 these towns that they were living around four or five 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:42.439 six IDP camps there, they were forced to flee. So 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:45.560 the Kurdish groups they were like trying to resist the 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.439 SNA advances, but they were not able to resist them 0:09:48.440 --> 0:09:51.120 because they were completely surrounded because as I mentioned, Nobel 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:54.480 and Zaka fell, so they were like completely pinched from 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:55.040 all sides. 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:56.559 But before they had always like. 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:58.920 Nobble and Zaha behind them, so they could not not 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.720 be completely surrounded. But this time they were completely surrounded. 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:03.800 They were forced to leave there or not able to 0:10:04.280 --> 0:10:06.800 continue the fight. So I think there was like a 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:09.920 de facto deal or something, because you saw like convoys 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:13.760 with actually with fighters with weapons and armed hunvis. They 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.720 were like being escorted two checkpoints and they were allowed 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.800 to cross the ward. Sabka actually a town in northeast area. 0:10:19.920 --> 0:10:22.920 And maybe most likely the US they were involved in 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.560 the sort of de facto deal and Turkey, but so 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:28.160 far the US they haven't comment on that, but most 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.520 likely there was sort of a deal for the forces 0:10:30.559 --> 0:10:33.280 in Tarafa to leave with the civilians and they're now 0:10:33.320 --> 0:10:37.000 hosted in camps, in displacement camps in the town of Tabka. 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:40.600 And then there are still Kurts living as I mentioned 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.080 in Ashtraphia and Chef Masuda to big neighborhoods in Aleppo. 0:10:44.480 --> 0:10:47.400 And then you have also two small Kurdish towns around 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:49.640 thel Hassa which are now controlled by the year National 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:56.199 Army the Turkish back groups, so the hyattas their local administration. 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:58.440 They offered the deal to the Kurdish fighters. They said, 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.360 you can leave these two curt neighborhoods and Aleppo without 0:11:01.360 --> 0:11:03.800 any issues, and the Curs that are living there, we 0:11:03.960 --> 0:11:05.480 respect them and they can stay there. 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:07.360 But the Kurdish fighters, they have to leave. 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.160 But then there was a statement i think yesterday by 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:13.280 the leader of the SEF, the Muslim Ubdi. He was 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.800 saying like we were forced to evacuate the people because 0:11:16.800 --> 0:11:20.000 we were trying to create a corridor between these Kurtish 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:22.520 enclaves in Aleppo with the rest of North East area, 0:11:22.600 --> 0:11:25.520 because they are like Turkish backed rebels in the certain 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:28.640 government in between trying to trying to make a corridor. 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.680 So they said this corridor was actually was broken and 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:35.280 they were forced to evacuate. But he said that the 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:38.760 Kurtish forces were still in Aleppo resisting. So it seems 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.440 that the YPG didn't completely follow this offer of the HS. 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:44.560 But of course we don't know if there was maybe 0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:48.400 a backdoor deal with the HTS to allow first people 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.520 in northern Aleapo to leave and then maybe in a 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.800 later phase that they will also leave Aleppo because they 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:54.400 are there in a quite difficult situation. 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:56.079 Yeah, a very difficult situation. 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:59.600 But they're now accused by the rebels that there are 0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.199 position snipers in Aleppo, and then they are still a 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.760 Leppo but they never left Czech Masud and Astrapia, and 0:12:05.760 --> 0:12:08.960 but I also talked to people. They're saying that civilians 0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:11.640 they were offered in Czech Masud and Astrapia to leave 0:12:11.960 --> 0:12:14.320 that area if they wanted to leave, so they were 0:12:14.360 --> 0:12:16.680 not forced to leave, that they had the option opportunity 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:19.760 to leave that area if they wanted. But then the 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.600 buses didn't show up and they didn't leave, because I mean, 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:27.560 they need only not only evacuated Kurdish civilians from northern Lepo, 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:30.319 but I think they also evacuated the Shia population of 0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:33.000 Dubo Zakha. There were sometimes also that they were also 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.160 evacuated to north east Ayria because they don't feel safe 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.880 for their lives if those rebels take those areas. 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:40.199 Yeah, and they are still there. 0:12:40.200 --> 0:12:42.040 They don't want to be captured by the rebels and 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:46.040 used as hostages or so most likely they left with 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:48.880 the Kurts to north east Syria and what will happen 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:50.880 to them. They probably go to Iraq or to other 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:51.720 areas in Syria. 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:56.040 Yeah, you meet like in Northeast Aria, you meet sometimes 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.920 like either former ratime soldiers or people who have left 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:14.280 regime areas and like they've made their lives there. So 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:16.599 now we have this situation right where, yeah, we have 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:19.800 these two little islands. We'll just call them YPG for 0:13:20.160 --> 0:13:23.280 the ease of to not introduce another acronym, right of 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:29.160 like a Kurdish armed folks in Aleppo. To complicate this further, 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:31.719 and people will probably have seen this, I want to 0:13:31.760 --> 0:13:35.640 explain it. In the Rezor, we have a different situation, right, 0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:40.160 we have their the SDF attacking Iranian back relicious and 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.480 the regime. Do you feel comfortable explaining what's going on 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:45.280 in Darrisora where that's a different calculus. 0:13:45.679 --> 0:13:46.000 Yeah. 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:51.200 So since former president or the incoming president Donald Trump 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:54.240 when he pulled out troops from Syria in twenty nineteen 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:58.679 when Turkey did an offensive against the Curbs and Talabas 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:01.840 in the US, they left, but then there was so 0:14:01.920 --> 0:14:05.120 much criticism from both Democrats and Republicans that he was 0:14:05.160 --> 0:14:08.720 forced to come back. So until now, there are still 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:12.920 nine hundred Jewish troops in Detozor Province and in Husska Province, 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:14.840 which is actually not a lot because if you look 0:14:14.880 --> 0:14:18.280 to for instance, South Korea, there are thousands of troops 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:20.560 in South Korea and in other places, so it's not 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:23.040 very a lot. But in the US discussions it's always 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:26.120 discussed all we have troops in Syria, but actually compared 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:27.840 to other countries is not a very big number. 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.680 Nine hundred people, no, not unto very small footprint. 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:34.280 So they have this small footprint in Detzor and Hassaka 0:14:34.480 --> 0:14:37.960 and they basically they worked with the Kurtish led forces 0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:40.880 since the Battle of Kobani to basically defeat the Isis 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.160 Kelephate because it was a threat to European security and 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:46.840 US security and they were trying to carry out attacks 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:48.560 in Europe, and there were many attacks in Europe and 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:49.560 when civilians were killed. 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:51.680 So yeah, Ani Isis fight. 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:53.520 This is one of the reasons actually why the Kurtish 0:14:53.600 --> 0:14:56.640 led forces they were forced to go to Detozor because 0:14:56.640 --> 0:14:59.720 it was their last bastion in twenty nineteen when they 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:04.040 defeated the territorial Caliphate of Isis. So since there you 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.280 have this the SEF there and they have their own 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:10.120 administration in the Azora and they have like local forces 0:15:10.120 --> 0:15:13.000 and Arabs that joined them in the fight against sizes. 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:15.640 So what happened that in the last few years, in 0:15:15.680 --> 0:15:18.640 the last one or two years, there have been attempts 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:22.240 by the Syrian government and Iranian back groups basically to 0:15:22.480 --> 0:15:25.880 recruit Arab tribes to fight against the SDF, So there 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:29.560 have been several skirmishes and battles since that time. After 0:15:29.640 --> 0:15:33.160 also the SDF they arrested a commander of them that 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:36.640 they thought he was like going to portrade them. So 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:39.800 since that time, there were like several skirmishes between these 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:43.440 milasis that are calling themselves the tribal army or something 0:15:43.480 --> 0:15:45.640 in that regard. And then you have the SCF, so 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:48.080 you had like fights between the Iranian back groups. 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:48.480 And the SDF. 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:53.800 And recently with all the changes in Syria, there were 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.560 a number of villages around seven six villages that were 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:58.440 actually Russian army. 0:15:58.320 --> 0:15:59.560 Was based in those villages. 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:03.040 It was like the line sort of dividing the US 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.280 back as theF forces and the Syrian government forces. And 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:08.960 there's also a river, but those villages they were like 0:16:09.000 --> 0:16:10.880 in front of the river, so the river is sort 0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:14.400 of naturally dividing the areas between the SDF and and 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:17.000 the Syrian government. But there were like still a number 0:16:17.040 --> 0:16:19.080 of villages that were not on that line, and actually 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:22.680 there were Russian troops based in that villages. Yeah, but 0:16:23.000 --> 0:16:26.400 with the whole crisis with Aleppo and the fight now 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:29.800 between the HCS and the Syrian government in Hannah, the 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:32.680 Russians they moved out from those villages, so those villages 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:35.960 that actually are almost empty, there is nothing there. 0:16:36.680 --> 0:16:37.440 So during this. 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:42.160 Situation they a s UF they just moved in those 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.800 villages and there was actually not so much fighting, although 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:47.360 on the social media I see that all there's fighting 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.560 and this kind of stuff. So there was some over 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.960 these like the last one or two years, they have 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:56.360 been heavy fighting between the SDF and Reign Impact Groups, 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:58.920 but in these villages not so much because it was 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.880 just empty villages and they just took them over and 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:02.800 there was no one there. 0:17:03.960 --> 0:17:07.399 Yeah, okay, So that leaves us with like I guess 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.480 an e s getting a little bit larger in the 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:12.520 south and the smaller in the west. 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:15.040 Yeah, very much smaller in the west. 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:17.480 And it's even not clear if they can keep their 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:22.480 presence in Aleppo because I mean, Chef Marsuten Aspia is 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.000 now completely surrounded by the HDS, and it seems that 0:17:26.040 --> 0:17:28.360 the HDS they have been a little bit softer with 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.640 the SDF and YPG than the SNA because the SNA, 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:35.160 I mean, they have their issues because they're also backed 0:17:35.160 --> 0:17:37.680 by the Turkish government and the Turkish government. They always 0:17:37.680 --> 0:17:41.280 said their policy is basically to stop the SDF from 0:17:41.400 --> 0:17:44.240 treating autonomous area, and they also said the SDF is 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:46.840 linked to the PIKK, although the SDF they deny links 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:51.359 to the PIKK, although they don't deny their idological affiliation. 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:52.760 With the prison pick A k here. Yeah. 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:56.679 So Turkey always said that they are feeling threatened, and 0:17:56.760 --> 0:18:00.359 they have always claimed that attacks were planned on Turkey 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:05.680 from northeast Asyria, from Java on on on Turkey. Yeah, 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.359 THEFF deny that. I think there was also there was 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:09.959 not so a long time ago. There was also an 0:18:09.960 --> 0:18:12.159 attack in Ankara, and Turkey also claimed that it was 0:18:12.520 --> 0:18:15.560 a carry planned from British cities in Syria. 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:19.040 Yeah, so that's that's like the situation. 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:21.719 Yeah, they gives Yeah, they give us a pretty good 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:22.680 summary of the situation. 0:18:22.800 --> 0:18:23.120 I think. 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.960 So let's talk about HTS a bit, because I think 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:39.879 you're going to see one of two things. Right when 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.240 we talk about the SNA and HDS, A lot of 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:45.119 outlets will just collapse them under the same descriptor they 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:48.320 will just say Syrian rebels, and I think people will 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:52.240 think of the original largely secular uprising in Syria in 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:54.640 twenty eleven, and if they have not been paying attention, 0:18:55.359 --> 0:18:58.080 they'll realize that ISIS has been and gone. But they'll think, oh, 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:00.760 these must be the same guys. These are not the 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:03.360 same guys, but some of them maybe the same guys 0:19:03.400 --> 0:19:05.520 who are originally part of Jiulani was originally sent there 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:09.160 by a back daddy way back to be part of ISIS. 0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:12.200 But these are not the secular rebels who originally rose 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:16.119 up in Syria. And so can you explain, like, HTS 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:20.679 has this very interesting kind of legitimacy project right, like 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:23.560 it's trying to build a pseudo state and present like 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:26.480 a kind of gentler Jihadism. I don't know how to 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:28.679 say it, but can you explain a little bit of 0:19:28.680 --> 0:19:30.960 this transformation of HTS and what you make of it. 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:35.359 I mean, as you mentioned that Julani, the current leader 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:38.560 of the HS, he was sent by at that time 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:42.920 I think it was Al Kaida are the Islamic State 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:46.639 of Iraq, and yeah, use area basically to establish like 0:19:47.960 --> 0:19:49.600 but at that time there was no ISIS yet I 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:54.639 think so. So later basically he refused to budge allegiance 0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.320 and he basically did his own thing. He created Jabalta Nostra, 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:02.720 which was the affiliate of al KaiA. But then he 0:20:02.800 --> 0:20:07.080 decided to basically split from al Qaeda and he announced 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:09.680 like the links to I think at that time that 0:20:09.760 --> 0:20:12.879 leader was Zawahiri, but I'm not sure. So he basically 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:14.800 split from al Qaeda. And you still have a split 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:17.639 off group from al Qaeda in Itlyp. It's called h 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:20.840 Russell Din, which they actually they had issues with. They 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:26.760 had some problems with them. So HDS, although Isis territory 0:20:26.880 --> 0:20:32.520 was defeated twenty nineteen, the HTS or they basically with 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:34.560 all the creates in Syria because I mean they have 0:20:34.640 --> 0:20:36.680 been fighting out for all the problems between the Serian 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:40.480 government and different armed groups. They managed to sort of 0:20:40.520 --> 0:20:43.040 cementa crowd throw in the province of lip and they 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.600 created their own little administration there. But despite that, they 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:48.560 say that we don't have any links to al Qaeda. 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:50.640 I mean, they're still listed by for instance, the US 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:52.160 as a terrorist organization. 0:20:52.520 --> 0:20:55.600 Yeah, there's a ten million dollar bounty on Julani still, right, 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:57.399 they just never took it away from Yeah. 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:00.000 So I mean it seems that the US doesn't believe 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:04.880 this moderation idea that the HS tries to show them 0:21:04.920 --> 0:21:07.920 more moderately. But my idea of the HS, it's more 0:21:08.000 --> 0:21:10.440 like a sort of a lighter, softer version of ices. 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.399 I mean, they're not like ices that they're gonna broadcast 0:21:13.440 --> 0:21:16.480 people being blown up or beheaded on the film screen. 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:18.679 It's just that they do it in the back of 0:21:18.720 --> 0:21:22.640 the screen. I mean, there's people being executed according to 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:23.800 the Islamic Shadia a lot. 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:25.080 There are people being imprisoned. 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.919