WEBVTT - Selects: Who was America's first murderer? 0:00:00.840 --> 0:00:03.560 Hey everyone, it's Josh here with this week's s Y 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:07.800 s K selects. I've chosen who was America's First Murderer. 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:11.639 It's a classic episode from two thousand eleven, and it 0:00:11.640 --> 0:00:15.319 has history, even more history, and at its heart it's 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:19.560 a true crime story. Uh plus is just straight up interesting. 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.600 And we did record this ten years ago. So if 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:24.600 some of the words are language that we use seems 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:27.280 a little out of date, please forgive us. The world 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.880 has changed tremendously in the last decade. I hope you 0:00:30.960 --> 0:00:33.760 enjoyed this one as much as we do, because it's 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:42.880 a great one. Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:51.880 production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 0:00:51.920 --> 0:00:55.160 I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and this 0:00:55.200 --> 0:00:59.840 is Stuff you Should Know, Episode three. No, it's not 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:03.240 why I'm saying it is, Okay, So now it's episode 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:09.440 episode three something three nineer eight or that's good, Josh? 0:01:09.720 --> 0:01:13.039 Is that your intro? Rocking and a rolling splitshing in 0:01:13.080 --> 0:01:17.360 the splashing over the horizon? What could it be? Look 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:21.000 like it's gonna be a new country? You remember that one? 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:24.039 What are you talking about? That was genuinely have no idea. 0:01:24.200 --> 0:01:28.720 That was the the schoolhouse rock for the Mayflower Voyage, 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.520 really rocking in a roll and splitsh it in the splash, 0:01:31.560 --> 0:01:35.399 and you remember that over the horizon, what could it be? 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.760 Look like it's going to be a free country or 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:42.840 new country. Either way, it was both new and probably 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:47.080 knew because that was not free for everybody. That's true. Yeah, 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:50.800 So you're talking about this because we're going to talk 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:53.880 about the first murderer, right, Yeah, And before we start, 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:55.960 I want to ask why has no one ever made 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:59.840 a modern film about the Mayflower Voyage. It seems like 0:01:59.880 --> 0:02:03.680 a no brainer, you know. Yeah, I don't know, especially 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.080 after gotting around to it yet, like the awesomeness of 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.799 Master and Commander. Did you ever see that, the one 0:02:08.800 --> 0:02:12.320 with um Russell Crowe? Yeah, it was very good, surprisingly good. Yeah. 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:15.360 It surprised me too. Actually, I didn't get the colon. 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:17.320 It made it sound like it was a franchise, but 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:20.480 it was like the first of the franchise. It wasn't like, Oh, 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:23.040 I guess, I guess Pirates of the Caribbean did have 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:26.120 a call in the first one, didn't it, I don't know, huh. 0:02:26.200 --> 0:02:28.480 But Master, that was Peter Weir master and commander. So 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:30.799 it makes sense that it was awesome because he's such 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:34.760 a great director and related to Bob we right, I think, really, 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:36.840 I don't know. I don't think so. I've always suspected. 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:43.080 Did he do the Treuman Show? Uh? That was written 0:02:43.280 --> 0:02:47.360 by we did Gatica. I don't know who directed that. 0:02:47.360 --> 0:02:49.280 That That might have been Peter Weir, But he did 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:54.160 Gallipoli and uh, like scores of great movies. Well cool, Well, 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.720 thank you for joining us at this discussion of Peter 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:59.720 Weir's films. He should direct the Mayflower movie was what 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.400 I'm say. For goodness sakes, Okay, they need to do 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:04.640 it like a realistic because you know, when you learn 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:06.760 about it in school, at least I did. I thought, 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:09.040 you know, you learned about it from Schoolhouse Rock, and 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.480 you get the picture. They just sang songs and kind 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.119 of rock and rolled over the ocean and then ran 0:03:14.160 --> 0:03:17.320 into Plymouth rock and shared Thanksgiving with the Indians. And 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:19.320 they need to make a real movie about how it 0:03:19.320 --> 0:03:22.320 really was. Well, yeah, because you know, that whole Schoolhouse 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:28.000 Rock impression is pretty widely held even among adults educated adults, 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:30.680 And the reason why it is because there's a very 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:37.320 small amount of firsthand information that left Plymouth Colony right um, 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.280 and was allowed to stand. There was a small group 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:44.160 of people who were controlling all of the info about 0:03:44.200 --> 0:03:46.280 that place, and they were trying to paint it in 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:48.360 as good a light as possible because they were trying 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:52.720 to attract investors. And these firsthand accounts that you know, 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:57.520 basically painted the Puritans as you know, these hard scrapple 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:02.120 people who were um guided by a divine hand in 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:07.200 the wilderness. Has stood all these centuries, hard hard scrapple. 0:04:08.200 --> 0:04:11.160 So let's talk about Let's talk about the Pilgrims the voyage, 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:15.960 right they landed in sixty just as a quick primer, 0:04:16.160 --> 0:04:20.320 so says you, um. And they were Pilgrims. They were 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:24.440 Puritans and separatists, as they were often called. They were 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:27.960 people who were so pious that no one in all 0:04:28.000 --> 0:04:31.080 of Europe was pious enough to contend with them. And 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.000 they were like, I'm sick of all you sinners. Were 0:04:33.000 --> 0:04:37.240 going to go found a new um, a new republic 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:39.919 in the in the name and for the glory of God, 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:42.839 and we're going to be really, really good, and we're 0:04:42.839 --> 0:04:45.440 going to do it in the new world, and that 0:04:45.440 --> 0:04:48.240 that's what they did. They sailed over to Massachusetts and 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:51.240 landed in Plymouth. As it turns out, nice place to land, 0:04:51.240 --> 0:04:55.280 I imagine. And uh, well, che, I mean, are we 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:56.839 going to get to the murder a guy right away 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.840 or should we just ease into that. Well, let's talk 0:04:59.880 --> 0:05:02.360 a about who was there. It wasn't just Puritans, it 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:05.080 wasn't just separatists. There's a whole other group of people 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.320 who don't get talked about a lot. Uh. And they 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:09.840 were called the strangers. Yeah, that sounded really creepy when 0:05:09.839 --> 0:05:11.640 I read it. For some reason, I think it sounds cool. 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:13.840 I think it sounds creepy, Like they look like they 0:05:13.880 --> 0:05:17.000 should have been dressed in like like the pilgrim black, 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.640 like with why brim hats so you can't see their eyes. Yeah, 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:22.359 what was the the deal with them? Were they Catholic? 0:05:22.839 --> 0:05:26.080 They were anything but the separatists of the Puritans. So 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:31.239 they were Catholics. They were sailors, they were um Africans, 0:05:31.360 --> 0:05:35.920 they were whoever kidnapped Indians. I don't know if all 0:05:35.960 --> 0:05:39.240 those people were on the main Flower, but there it was. 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:42.520 There was a bunch of people, you know, got them 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:44.720 over there. He went with them and the Puritans were 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.440 pretty rigid. Obviously they didn't like Catholics at all. They 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:53.119 were indeed extremely rigid, but to this degree, as we'll see, Um, 0:05:54.040 --> 0:05:57.920 they they they found that like, no, nobody's this rigid. 0:05:58.360 --> 0:05:59.919 And there were a lot of strangers who broke all 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.320 out of laws, but um, there are a lot of 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:05.320 Puritans who did too, um and they just kind of 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:07.960 glossed it over. They kept records, but these things just 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:12.919 didn't get promoted, right, Yeah, Mort's Relation, Yes, So what 0:06:12.920 --> 0:06:16.080 you're talking about Mort's Relation written in sixteen twenty two 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:20.360 by William Bradford, who was clearly the governor, longtime governor 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:24.400 of Plymouth. His cousin George Morton wrote he was a 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.840 separatist and he wrote this book or an account, and 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.560 that was that sort of looked at as the account 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:33.240 of Plymouth. But as it turns out, as you point out, 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.880 because you wrote this, Mortz Relation was written to attract funding, 0:06:38.080 --> 0:06:41.200 right for Plymouth. So it was basically like a lengthy, 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:45.359 in depth brochure to attract investors. And what are you 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.080 going to say. You're not going to say, we're starving 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:50.640 to death over here, we're having a really hard time 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:54.080 we're probably not going to make it. People are committing bestiality. Yes, 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:57.360 buggery is what they call that. Huh, we'll get to that. 0:06:57.400 --> 0:07:00.760 Of the okay, um and the not going to say this, 0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:04.120 they're going to say things are great, we're really you know, 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:09.040 living and by God's will, we're really just making it 0:07:09.080 --> 0:07:12.240 over here, and we need some more money. Yeah, yeah, 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:14.840 they did, so that means take take it with a 0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.120 grain of salt. They but they didn't just pretend like 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:19.760 the strangers weren't there, but they painted some of the 0:07:19.800 --> 0:07:24.440 strangers in possibly less than flattering light. Right. Uh yeah, 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:26.840 I mean, are we at the Billington's Inn, might as 0:07:26.840 --> 0:07:30.200 well be the Billington's the family, John Billington's, his wife 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:36.680 um eleanor his son's little John John Jr. And Francis, 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.720 who was a boy his other son. They were sort 0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:46.440 of painted as like reading your reading your article. They 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.840 sort of seem like, on one hand, like the first 0:07:49.880 --> 0:07:53.000 white trash, you know, that's one way to put it, 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:55.720 And then they also sort of seem like, no, you know, 0:07:55.760 --> 0:08:00.000 they might have been kind of cool and just rabble rousers. Yeah, 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:03.720 or yes, I think that that's very accurate. But they 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:06.240 definitely weren't any friends of Bradford that he did not 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.920 like these people? No, he didn't. He called Um. He 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:12.640 wrote in a letter to a Mr Cushing. I believe 0:08:13.600 --> 0:08:16.480 uh that who had some sort of authority I guess 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:20.600 in the over the colony in back in England. But 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:25.000 he basically says that Billington still rails against you, and 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:27.840 that he's a nave, which means a scoundrel. And he'll 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:30.920 always be a nave. He'll live and dies so and 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.480 and as so he'll live and die. Yeah. That was Kushman, 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.360 by the way, thank you, the same thing. And uh 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:38.920 he also said that he quote he said they were 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:42.480 one of the profanest families to come to the colony. 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.600 And it wasn't just John, I mean they didn't. He 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:48.199 didn't like any of them. His kids were a bit 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:50.480 of a handful too, well, one of them. It doesn't 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:52.760 say who in the records. But on the way over 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.160 Um decided that he was going to shoot off his 0:08:56.240 --> 0:09:02.280 father's musket right gun in a cabin filled with people, 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.720 which is bad enough, but he did it right next 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:10.920 to a open, half filled keg of gunpowder, right so 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:14.319 he almost just blew the whole Mayflower up and history 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:16.880 would have changed forever. Probably. So that was the first 0:09:16.880 --> 0:09:19.400 thing that happened with the Billington's and the rest of 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:23.920 the people on the Mayflower. No, actually it wasn't. There 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:27.319 was part. There was a mutiny that John Billington's, the father, 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:32.719 was involved in um and he was he was let 0:09:32.760 --> 0:09:35.600 off the hook because it was his first offense. But 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:40.080 he uh he that that started. Tensions were already high. 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.760 And then one of his sons, either Francis or John Jr. 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.480 Shot off the gun in the cabin. So you start 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.600 to get an impression of this family, especially when you 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.800 look at you know, when you think of them bristling, 0:09:52.840 --> 0:09:57.960 not just the average persons, you know, ire, but a 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:03.120 puritan's ire, right, yeah, because you can screw up like 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.720 innumerable ways in the eyes of a Puritan, sure, especially 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:09.200 if you're not a Puritan, That's right. And then once 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.880 they got to the New World, Uh, they continue their shenanigans. 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:17.400 John Jr. Kind of wandered off one day twenty miles 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:22.319 worth and wandered into a Native American village, and then 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.880 he was taken to another village by those Native Americans, 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:27.480 and eventually they sent out a group to go find 0:10:27.559 --> 0:10:29.160 him and took him a little while. They set sail, 0:10:29.240 --> 0:10:31.840 actually ended up on Cape Cod what is now Cape 0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:35.719 Cod and uh said, you know you're gonna have to 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:40.559 come back, Yes, And they found him because of Massive Swat, 0:10:41.160 --> 0:10:46.960 who was the great statum of the Wappanoag Wappag. Yeah, 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:51.080 well panalog or get an email for that one. Um 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:55.520 who was involved in the first Thanksgiving with these same people. 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.280 So he might have had something to do with that then, huh, 0:10:58.320 --> 0:11:01.120 well he did. He was already like he he basically 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:07.559 was Um trying to use the Englishman against his rivals, 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:13.320 I think the Abenaki um to basically run them out 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:17.280 rather than consolidate with the other Indians against the English. 0:11:17.360 --> 0:11:21.760 And basically that turned over the whole continent to Europe 0:11:21.960 --> 0:11:24.319 like that one act is largely considered as the the 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:28.439 turning point. So he was already pals with him, um 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.760 and uh yeah, so he helped him find the boy. 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:32.440 And if you're from Plymouth, if you live in the 0:11:32.440 --> 0:11:36.199 Plymouth area, then you might know Billington Sea, which is 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.440 a pond and that's name for John Jr. Yeah, who 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:42.560 wandered off right. Yeah, I think that he might have 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:44.360 found that. I mean you know, he discovered the pond, 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:47.040 but he may have discovered it on his wonder right 0:11:47.400 --> 0:11:51.280 his sojourn. Yeah, but they found him and he was 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.440 quote be hung with beads. So apparently they you know, 0:11:54.880 --> 0:11:56.960 kind of adopted him a little bit like he was 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:01.360 the mascot. Yeah, and then they gave him back. Yeah, 0:12:01.440 --> 0:12:04.760 and then the I think that the colonists gave the 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.880 Indians and a couple of knives and said thanks and 0:12:08.080 --> 0:12:10.560 went back to Plymouth, thanks for the beads and the guy. 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:12.920 But you have to imagine that mounting a ten man 0:12:12.960 --> 0:12:19.560 sailing expedition into Indian country. Um, because your kid wandered off, 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:21.360 it's gonna you're gonna You're gonna rub the back of 0:12:21.400 --> 0:12:24.040 your neck and be like thanks a lot, you know. Yeah, 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:26.800 you know, if you're at Billington's and you're like, thanks 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:29.600 for getting my kid back, you know, can I do 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:33.120 I owe you anything? Or you know? Not so though, 0:12:33.160 --> 0:12:37.680 because Billington uh had a bad reputation in that he 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:40.640 scoffed at Captain Miles Standish and you don't scoff at 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:43.880 Standish Miles Standish. Proud Miles Standard was trying to get 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:46.679 people to UH to you know, serve in the military, 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.240 and Billington was like, no, dude, ain't I'm not doing that. 0:12:49.760 --> 0:12:53.480 He was a part of anti government groups government subversion. Well, 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:57.160 there was in there was called what's called the olderman 0:12:57.280 --> 0:13:01.120 Lyford Conspiracy. That was the name of two main conspirators. 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:04.760 He was named as a co conspirator. And reading his 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:07.120 history and then this, you know, the the actual history 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:09.360 of this conspiracy, which is a lot of secret meetings 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:15.079 about how they should overthrow this Puritan regime and start 0:13:15.120 --> 0:13:18.880 governing this colony the right way. Um, he was probably 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:21.240 a part of it, but he denied it and was 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.600 let off the hook again. Well, and he he was 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:28.440 also apologized for the UM for standing up against Standish 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:32.280 and they said they threatened him with hog tying, which 0:13:32.320 --> 0:13:34.440 can actually kill you. I didn't realize that I could 0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.200 see that because what you'r all your weights on your chest, right, Well, 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:39.800 it's they tie your legs together, they tie your arms 0:13:39.840 --> 0:13:43.160 behind your back, and then they tie your ankles to 0:13:43.400 --> 0:13:47.240 your neck around your neck. What So, unless you stay 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:51.679 completely arched like that, you're gonna start cutting off circulation. 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:53.840 Like it's a form of torture. It's not just how 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.840 we're gonna tie you up. Well, the that whole second 0:13:56.880 --> 0:13:59.440 step has been kind of lost to history as I 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:03.439 understand it. Well, now is it just tying the hands 0:14:03.480 --> 0:14:06.120 and tie your your hands and your ankles, your wrists 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.800 and your ankles together behind your back, and yeah, you're arched, 0:14:08.840 --> 0:14:12.600 But I don't know anything about tying the ankles around that. 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:14.920 That's horrible. Apparently the old hog time is a little 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:18.080 more brutal. Yeah, which makes total sense. Which also makes 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:21.040 sense why he's described as basically like pleading for mercy 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:22.960 not to have that happened to him, and which is 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:24.720 why they let him go. Yeah, Miles Sands is like, 0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:28.720 all right, but get out of my site, Billington Diet, 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:33.640 and I mean, like there's really there's there's we can't forget. 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:35.760 We can't leave out the fact that these people were 0:14:35.800 --> 0:14:39.640 original plymouth colonists, like they were the first he's on 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:43.520 the charter, the first European, the first English European Americans, 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:45.640 and the first what would become one of the first 0:14:45.680 --> 0:14:49.720 states of America. Like, these are important people, no matter 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.240 what their reputations are. He was the signer of the 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:59.680 Mayflower Compact, which is the first um European based governing law. 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.560 I guess you would call it state of laws. Um, 0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:08.120 and he was he was. He helped Hugh the colony 0:15:08.120 --> 0:15:10.120 out of the wilderness. He was one of the colonists, 0:15:10.200 --> 0:15:12.280 right yeah. And there's a pdf online I found that 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:16.320 traces his family tree and apparently James Garfield, the President, 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:20.120 was a descendant of Billington's and it it. I mean, 0:15:20.200 --> 0:15:22.280 if you're I wish I would have written down some 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.640 of the last names. I A. Witten was one of them. 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:26.120 But I mean there were people that have staid like 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:30.320 still alive today. Oh yeah, there's an apparently I remember 0:15:30.320 --> 0:15:32.680 researching this. I couldn't find it when I reresearched for 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.320 this podcast. But there's like a whole group of people 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.320 who are into that kind of thing. We are proudly 0:15:37.840 --> 0:15:41.720 ancestors of Billington's, this rabble rousing, the first like real 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.840 troublemaker in America. Well, people are proud period just to 0:15:44.880 --> 0:16:20.480 be descendants of the Plymouth colonists for sure. So um, 0:16:20.520 --> 0:16:22.840 but you you, I hopefully everybody has like kind of 0:16:22.840 --> 0:16:26.600 an idea of how Billington and his family were regarded. 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:29.000 Right Well, we didn't get to his wife and daughter. 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.120 I know that was after what he could, but his 0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.960 wife was Eleanor was locked in the stocks and whipped 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:38.680 at one point. She was also had to pay fines 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:41.440 of five pounds sterling because she was found guilty of 0:16:41.440 --> 0:16:48.240 slandering her neighbors and his granddaughter Dorcas. I love that. 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.880 There's only one way to pronounce that, right, Yeah, d 0:16:52.000 --> 0:16:55.280 O R c As. I'm gonna bring that one back. 0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:57.600 If I ever have a daughter, she's gonna be Dorcas. 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:02.520 Bryant uh Orcis apparently was sentenced to whipping because she 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:06.280 um had sexual intercourse when she was twenty two years old, 0:17:06.320 --> 0:17:09.360 and you didn't do that. So um, yeah, the whole 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.960 family was definitely not They didn't fall in line with 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:14.960 with the rest of the crowd. Although that's that's not 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:16.520 true because a lot of the rest of the crowd 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:19.560 was doing even worse things. As it turns out, you 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:22.800 just didn't read it in the brochure, right, So can 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:25.040 we talk about some of the stuff that people were 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:30.120 doing please? Okay, So remember by there's still only seven 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:35.560 and fifty five people in Plymouth Colony. Okay, so this 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:39.840 this stuff is happening like twenty fifty years before that. 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:44.359 The way fewer people, and yet there were incidents where 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:49.399 people like Thomas Granger, who was a servant UM was 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:53.320 indicted for buggery which we established before. It was beastiality 0:17:53.400 --> 0:17:59.360 with a mayor, a cow, two goats, diverse sheep, two calves, 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:03.680 and a turkey who he fell in love with. He 0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:06.600 he was sentenced to hang by um or sentenced to 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:11.960 die by hanging. Uh. John Walker the next year turkey 0:18:12.080 --> 0:18:16.360 he yes, UM, he was. He laid with a bitch, 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.439 as it's put and of course we mean the the 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.520 well the pilgrims meant the dog, the female dog. Um. 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:30.919 Another guy was was he was held on suspicion of 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.600 buggery with the beast. Another guy had buggery with the mayor. 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:37.000 And it just keeps going on and going on. So 0:18:37.040 --> 0:18:40.719 basically somebody would get caught sleeping with a dog and 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:45.280 would be whipped, put into the stocks, pilloried, um. And 0:18:46.359 --> 0:18:49.119 it was just recorded but never talked about. Yeah. There 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.280 was also rape in sodomy against humans going on. Yeah. 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:55.120 The way they put sodomy was that they were um. 0:18:55.320 --> 0:18:58.840 These John Alexander and Thomas Roberts back in sixty seven 0:18:59.320 --> 0:19:04.560 were called um and they got the hot irons, which wow, 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:07.560 is that's rough. So you hear about this stuff and 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:11.720 you think Dorcas doing, you know, sleeping with a man, 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.520 I presume is a very normal thing for twenty two 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:17.280 year old middle aged woman to do right at the time. Yes, 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.359 she's not that, she's not laying down with the turkeys. No, 0:19:23.080 --> 0:19:26.320 so Eleanor got put in the stocks for slander. Right, Yeah, 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:30.080 there's no recording of what she said or basically, we've 0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:32.240 reached this point here where we should probably talk about 0:19:32.240 --> 0:19:36.760 what John Billington did. Okay, because now that we've debunk 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:39.639 the fact that not everyone was super pure, and you 0:19:39.680 --> 0:19:46.000 can't necessarily read uh Mort's relation and the brochure and say, 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:47.720 you know, everything was just hunky dorry over there. This 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:50.240 maybe actually, maybe this is why the movie hasn't been made, 0:19:50.440 --> 0:19:52.359 because he wants to see a guy sleeping with the turkey. 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:56.359 I don't know. I think there's a market for movies. 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:58.320 You paid a lot for it, you know, it's a 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.840 market for that, but it's not box office grossing record 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:05.280 breaking numbers. Peter Weir wouldn't touchdown or what the in football? 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.359 So um, we should probably talk about how Billington became 0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:12.520 America's first murderer. It took it took place what ten 0:20:13.080 --> 0:20:15.879 years after he got there, So you have to think like, 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.280 this guy's an original settler and he's been farming and 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.119 hewing uh inn existence out for himself and other people. 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:26.720 And as a UM, an original Mayflower compact signer, he 0:20:26.760 --> 0:20:29.479 got a bunch of land parcel to him, like this 0:20:29.520 --> 0:20:34.000 is tens Land now. So but while he made an enemy, 0:20:34.040 --> 0:20:36.880 clearly one real enemy. He made quite a few, Bradford 0:20:36.920 --> 0:20:39.359 being one of him. But he made one enemy named 0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:43.600 John Newcomen, who was a newcomer as it turns out, 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.119 to Plymouth. UM. He hadn't been there for ten years. 0:20:46.720 --> 0:20:49.479 And it seems like history is a little sketchy because, 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:53.760 like you said, it's not all like recorded at that point. 0:20:54.400 --> 0:20:57.920 But one thing I read was it was possibly over 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:01.399 hunting rights. And don't know how true that is. It 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:04.760 is very true, it is. Yeah, there there's I when 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:09.879 I was going back in UM reading the the source 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.560 material for this, I'm like, why did I Why was 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.440 I so vague when I wrote this article? Because it 0:21:15.480 --> 0:21:18.760 did that confirm? Did it confirm that? Yeah? Well so 0:21:18.920 --> 0:21:22.959 in the Bradford's version basically is like this he wayed 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:26.479 at Billington Waylade. Newcoming, which we should explain what whyalate 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:29.600 is Waylade is like basically lying in wait and then murdering, 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:34.640 like hiding in the bush as it premeditated. It's huge 0:21:35.720 --> 0:21:38.000 if you read a stranger's account. There was an account 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:40.400 by a stranger and I don't know who. Um it's 0:21:40.440 --> 0:21:43.439 not in this, not in the source I cited, but 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:47.440 um it talks about how Newcoming was already known to 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:52.800 Billington's because he um, he used to steal from Billington's traps, 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.680 he poached on his land, and um, Billington had chased 0:21:56.720 --> 0:21:58.919 the kid off a bunch of times. Newcomings seventeen at 0:21:58.960 --> 0:22:02.040 the time, gotches. He was jerk basically, and he was 0:22:02.200 --> 0:22:04.840 what the strangers called a saint, which meant you were 0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:07.359 in good with Bradford because you were a Puritan, and 0:22:07.760 --> 0:22:11.199 compared to a stranger, you had exponentially more rights and 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:15.760 you got away with exponentially more stuff. Okay, so here's Billington, 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:18.200 who already has a bad reputation, and there's some little 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:21.600 seventeen year old punk kid stealing from his traps who's 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:25.720 chased off time and time and time again, and um, 0:22:25.920 --> 0:22:28.199 he catches him there, so he goes after him with 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:30.760 his gun, and the kid goes and hides behind a tree, 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:35.880 and Billington shoots at the tree. I don't know if 0:22:36.000 --> 0:22:38.920 he meant to shoot at the kid. Apparently he was 0:22:38.920 --> 0:22:41.159 a pretty good marksmant, but he hit the kid in 0:22:41.200 --> 0:22:46.200 the shoulder, not exactly a lethal shot today. Well, the 0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:50.040 kid died in like three days of an infection. That's 0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:52.800 how the America's first murder took place, and it was 0:22:52.840 --> 0:22:55.399 apparently with a blunderbuss. Have you ever heard of these guns? 0:22:56.400 --> 0:22:59.119 Is that the one with the big sort of like 0:22:59.200 --> 0:23:01.679 you see fund as a pilgrim hunting with Yeah, a 0:23:01.680 --> 0:23:03.120 little bit. I mean it's not like an elephant gun, 0:23:03.160 --> 0:23:04.600 but if it does flare out at the end, and 0:23:04.600 --> 0:23:07.400 it's sort of like, um, what would be considered today, 0:23:07.440 --> 0:23:10.199 it's sort of like a sawt off shotgun. So like 0:23:10.280 --> 0:23:13.280 it was a musket, but it was short and flared, 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:18.359 and so I imagine it it had a wider uh spray, 0:23:18.440 --> 0:23:20.720 even though it wasn't well, it wouldn't be a spray 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:23.399 because they didn't use pellets. But they compared it to 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:25.480 a sawt off shotgun. And what I read hand on 0:23:25.520 --> 0:24:00.960 the pump exactly. So, Um, that's how the first murder 0:24:01.000 --> 0:24:04.320 took place. I get the impression. Billington, who was also 0:24:04.600 --> 0:24:10.639 um described as um beloved by many. In another account 0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:14.879