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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds and Republican Representative Michael McCall won't seek

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Speaker 1: re election after eleven terms. We have such a great

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Speaker 1: show for you today. The Lincoln Project's own Rick Wilson

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Speaker 1: joins us to discuss the rights escalating rhetoric of revenge

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Speaker 1: for Charlie Kirk's death. Ben will talk to the former

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Speaker 1: chair of the Wisconsin Democrats, Ben Wickler about how the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party effectively builds to counter the GOP.

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Speaker 2: But first the news, so BALI, there is a leadership

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Speaker 2: fight a bruin. It seems Chris van Holland is looking

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Speaker 2: to become the leader in the Senate. Hakim Jefferies has

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Speaker 2: some choice words for him, but I think Chris is

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Speaker 2: dead on here and as the type of fighter I

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Speaker 2: think we could use personally.

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Speaker 1: Chris van Holland had this really good point about Mom

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Speaker 1: Dami and he said, yet many members of the Senate

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Speaker 1: and the House representing New York have stayed on the sidelines.

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Speaker 1: And he's right. He said that that kind of spineless

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Speaker 1: politics is what people are sick of. They need to

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Speaker 1: get behind him and get behind him.

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Speaker 2: Now that's about as boys words as Dems do. That's

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Speaker 2: like a political smack in the face to start a

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Speaker 2: fight whatever sek for.

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Speaker 1: Old white guys like this is as rough as they get.

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Speaker 1: And look, Holland is right. Mondanni won the nomination. He

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Speaker 1: won it by as it's not like there's a primary

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Speaker 1: going on. And I think what's really interesting about this

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Speaker 1: is it's not like Mondani is some unpopular candidate. He's

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Speaker 1: a really popular candidate. So then you have to ask

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Speaker 1: yourself think about this, Why are they not endorsing someone

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Speaker 1: who won their districts. These are politicians. They tend to

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Speaker 1: do things that are politically expedient, So what is the

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Speaker 1: move here? Why are they not doing it? And when

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Speaker 1: you think about it that way, the reasons they're not

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Speaker 1: doing it are pretty damn it.

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Speaker 2: I think Jeffries has long been accused by the left

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Speaker 2: of being hostile towards them in a way that they

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Speaker 2: can barely make sense of.

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Speaker 1: I think the most important thing about Leader Jeffries is

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Speaker 1: that he is really bad at the Internet. And so

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Speaker 1: you may not love Gavin Newsom ideologically, but the guy

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Speaker 1: is good at the Internet.

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Speaker 2: You can be Bernie Sanders would be nine billion years

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Speaker 2: old to be good at.

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Speaker 1: The internets, AOC good at the Internet. There are a

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Speaker 1: lot of Democrats, Chris Murphy. Not anyone's idea of a

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Speaker 1: crazy leftist good at the internet. You know who's not

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Speaker 1: good at the internet. Leader Jeffries, Leader Jeffries. This is

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Speaker 1: what poor Justin said. Leader Jeffries will have more to

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Speaker 1: say about the general election, well advanced of November fourth,

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Speaker 1: by the way, in case for those keeping Scurt home,

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Speaker 1: we are at September fourteenth, so he really only has

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Speaker 1: six weeks if he's going to do it. Meanwhile, he said,

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Speaker 1: confuse New Yorkers are asking themselves a question Chris van who. No,

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Speaker 1: we're not. We know exactly who Chris van Holland is,

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Speaker 1: and making fun of Chris van Holland does not make

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Speaker 1: you then seem like you have the situation in hand.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Well, speaking of situations, we're monitoring as the

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Speaker 2: joke quakes to go. The mayor of Memphis, Paul Jung,

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Speaker 2: says he's certainly not happy about Trump's National Guard deployment.

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Speaker 1: Nobody should be happy, right, I think we all need

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Speaker 1: to pause for a minute. The framing is a lie.

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Speaker 1: He's not sending the National Guard into fight crime. The

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Speaker 1: National Guard does not fight crime. The police fight crime.

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Speaker 1: The National Guard get there and they end up having

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Speaker 1: to do terrible jobs that they're not meant to be doing,

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Speaker 1: picking up trash, intimidating people. So the whole you know,

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Speaker 1: it's like reject Trump's framing. He didn't go to war

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Speaker 1: with universities because he cared about anti semitism. He went

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Speaker 1: to war with universities because they saw from Victor Orbond

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Speaker 1: that if you want to enact and authoritarian crackdowns, you

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Speaker 1: have to start with the universities. That's what this was.

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Speaker 1: So when you look at this, this is not about crime,

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Speaker 1: This is about deployment. This is about spectacle. And also,

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Speaker 1: by the way, this is about distracting from the tariff

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Speaker 1: fiasco and inflation. Trump has decided that going into Memphis

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Speaker 1: is better because Tennessee is a red state, and that

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Speaker 1: he'll be greeted as a liberator, you know, tends to be.

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Speaker 1: We are not greeted as liberators when our military role

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Speaker 1: into different cities, especially ones that have their own protocol

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Speaker 1: for protecting themselves.

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Speaker 2: I thought part of trump Ism was that we learned

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Speaker 2: the lessons of Iraqis and now what he always claims,

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Speaker 2: but he didn't learn that they'll greet us as liberators.

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Speaker 3: Thing.

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Speaker 1: Listen, man, he's brought peace. He's brought peace everywhere. He's

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Speaker 1: brought peace to India and Pakistan, he's brought peace to

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Speaker 1: the Middle East.

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Speaker 2: This is why he's going to get the.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's spent forty five piece deals in five days.

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Speaker 3: That's what I've been told.

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Speaker 1: Do you remember when we were ninety trade deals in

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Speaker 1: ninety days?

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Speaker 2: You know that seems to have stucked my mind because

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Speaker 2: there's a shit from every single day to forget about

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Speaker 2: all the lives. They tell, well, we never.

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Speaker 1: Got the deals. There were no deals, no deals, no deals,

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Speaker 1: just days.

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Speaker 4: Well.

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Speaker 2: Another myth of this administration is the Party of free speech.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they love free speech except sometimes do you.

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Speaker 2: Know what the Party of free speech is talk about doing?

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Speaker 2: A new bill would allow Marco Ruby of a strip

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Speaker 2: US citizens' passports over political speech.

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Speaker 1: So we talked about this with Rip and my grandfather did,

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Speaker 1: in fact have his passport strip. The Supreme Court has

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Speaker 1: ruled against this. Now trumperol doesn't mind doing illegal stuff.

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Speaker 1: That's like kind of the brand a legal stuff. But

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Speaker 1: I do think that the fact that this crew has

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Speaker 1: decided that they're going to go after passports and maybe

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Speaker 1: they pass it, it's unconstitutional. It's against the Constitution. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, well the Supreme Court like rollover probably,

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Speaker 1: but I think we're seeing here that this is we're

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Speaker 1: just in water world here where they just make up stuff.

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Speaker 4: Yep.

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Speaker 2: So I find this really disturbing. This is balls onto

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Speaker 2: that banner of the cruelty is the point, and also

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Speaker 2: getting rich people stupid tax cuts that barely hurt them.

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Speaker 2: The Trump administration is canceling grants that support deaf, blind

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Speaker 2: students and special education teachers.

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Speaker 3: This is cute.

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Speaker 1: This is how we got here, right like, this is fraud, waste,

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Speaker 1: and abuse. I was told that the richest man in

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Speaker 1: the world, he's not the richest anymore, but the second

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Speaker 1: richest man in the world was going to cut out fraud, waste,

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Speaker 1: and abuse. What he meant was just getting rid of

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Speaker 1: money for teachers to teach disabled children. Wisconsin had planned

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Speaker 1: to work with these funds to include direct support of

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Speaker 1: deaf blind learners and their families in an effort to

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Speaker 1: recruit and retain new special education, teachers. It's one thing.

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Speaker 1: They cut all this international foreign aid, the kind of

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Speaker 1: stuff that you know, millions of people are going to

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Speaker 1: die from this, but this is just stuff that is like,

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Speaker 1: we have this ballooning debt, we have billionaires not paying taxes.

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Speaker 1: Like you guys can pay for deaf blind kids to

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Speaker 1: get teachers. I promise you can afford it. Rick Wilson

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Speaker 1: is the founder of the Lincoln Project and the host

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Speaker 1: of the Enemy's List. Hello, Rick Wilson, Mollie john Fast,

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Speaker 1: Great to.

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Speaker 3: Be back with you.

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Speaker 1: You had a nice littification we did.

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Speaker 3: We went to England and Renee and I spent a

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Speaker 3: few days in the Cotswalds and a few days in London.

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Speaker 3: When I was over there, their number one story in

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Speaker 3: the news for like four or five days was that

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Speaker 3: the deputy Prime Minister had not paid enough property taxes.

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Speaker 3: It wasn't did Trump nuke the moon? It was there

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Speaker 3: something cuckoo.

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Speaker 1: There's still time. While you were away, Stephen Miller went

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Speaker 1: on Fox News and he said some stuff. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: We're gonna cut to the veil.

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Speaker 3: I know what you're talking about.

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Speaker 5: There is a dynastic terrorism movement in this country, when

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Speaker 5: you see these organized docs and campaigns where the left

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Speaker 5: calls people enemies of the republic, calls them fascists, says

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Speaker 5: they're Nazis, says they're evil, says they have to be removed,

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Speaker 5: and then prince their addresses.

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Speaker 3: What do you think they're.

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Speaker 4: Trying to do.

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Speaker 5: They are trying to inspire someone to murder them. That

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Speaker 5: is their objective, that is their intent.

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Speaker 6: And when you see online Sean, as we've seen for

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Speaker 6: the last few days, tape after tape after tape of

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Speaker 6: federal workers, Beeracrez staffers and the Pentagon educators, professors, healthcare workers,

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Speaker 6: nurser nurses celebrating the assassination of Charlie Kirk.

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Speaker 5: These are radicalized people. There is a domestic terrorism movement

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Speaker 5: in this country.

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Speaker 1: I just want to say, you think that the cardigan

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Speaker 1: is going to make him seem a little more mallow,

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Speaker 1: but it really it's I guess it's a fleece like

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Speaker 1: you want to like a guy in a gray fleece.

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Speaker 3: Look, I mean it is the It is the sort

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Speaker 3: of modern day business bro uniform you want to quarner

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Speaker 3: zip or a fleece. You know, it makes you it

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Speaker 3: seem like you're casual and yet still smart and sharp

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Speaker 3: and approachable and yet not necessarily rabid, bouncing off the

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Speaker 3: fucking walls. And you know, Stephen Miller, there's a real

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Speaker 3: tell in all of this. Steven Miller immediately goes to it. Oh,

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Speaker 3: they call us Nazis, they call us fascists. Well, listen, Stephen,

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Speaker 3: if the jack boot fits, wear it, well, I don't

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Speaker 3: think that.

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Speaker 1: I think that the I think the name calling whatever right.

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Speaker 1: Nobody has ever been convinced of anything by calling someone

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Speaker 1: a name. The question I have is where are these nurses,

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Speaker 1: where are these federal employees celebrating this brutal killing, because

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Speaker 1: I have not seen that. Now. Maybe I'm siloed up,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not seen for fer.

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Speaker 3: Did see a weeks ago Mike Lee and JD. Vance

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Speaker 3: and a whole bunch of other Republicans laughing and joking

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Speaker 3: about the murder of the former House speaker in Minnesota.

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Speaker 3: You know what I did see when Paul Pelosi was

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Speaker 3: beaten with a hammer by a crazy guy who was

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Speaker 3: inspired by MAGA. I saw Don Junior making jokes about

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Speaker 3: it online, thought it was hilarious, And frankly, we saw

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Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk hoping that that guy would get bailed out

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Speaker 3: at the time.

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Speaker 1: So let's just pull back because Stephen Miller is basically

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Speaker 1: Trump's chief of staff. So this is not like some

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Speaker 1: guy on the internet saying this. This is the President's

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Speaker 1: chief of staff.

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Speaker 3: Not Molly. It's important to realize not only that Stephen

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Speaker 3: Miller is the effective head of the both the Justice

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Speaker 3: Department and the Department of Homeland Security.

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Speaker 1: Right she is.

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Speaker 3: It controls those things top to bottom.

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Speaker 1: And one of the things that I think has been

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Speaker 1: really interesting about this week that we've seen a lot

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Speaker 1: of is that we've seen people from Trump World and

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Speaker 1: how they're like, I'm thinking about cash Battel. So Cash

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Speaker 1: Battel was so worried about the way that this was

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Speaker 1: playing out in the media, social mainstream, and we have

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Speaker 1: now Steven Miller going on television, going on Fox News saying,

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Speaker 1: you know that he's going to sort of we ideal

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Speaker 1: I mean the goal what it sounds like to me

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Speaker 1: here and I certainly could be wrong, but it sounds

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Speaker 1: like ideological culling of the federal government.

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Speaker 3: Look, I think you have to expand past that. You

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Speaker 3: have people like Representative Clay Higgins, you have people across

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Speaker 3: the across the MAGA verse now saying that anybody who

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Speaker 3: doesn't sufficiently praise Charlie Kirk is going to be targeted.

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Speaker 3: And I think what you see Miller doing is taking

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Speaker 3: a tragic moment, a horrible moment of violence, and now

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Speaker 3: trying to weaponize it into a further expansion of the

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Speaker 3: power of the executive branch.

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Speaker 1: When you have just doing they executive there, Yes we.

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Speaker 3: Need the state Department now saying that they want to

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Speaker 3: be able to cancel Americans passports if they say the

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Speaker 3: wrong things.

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Speaker 7: This is an increasingly censor dark visionship. Yeah, well, such

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Speaker 7: a sentiship. It's the use of the power of the

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Speaker 7: state state to harm the political opponents of the president.

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Speaker 1: It's funny because my grandfather after he got out of

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Speaker 1: jail caring mccarthier, they actually did take away his passport

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Speaker 1: and that's why the family went to Mexico after he

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Speaker 1: got a jail, because you could go to Mexico without

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Speaker 1: a passport. And they actually went to a very conservative

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Speaker 1: Supreme court and were given their passports back because the

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Speaker 1: court said you can't take people's passports away for political reasons. Now,

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Speaker 1: that was seventy five years ago. Now, our court is

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Speaker 1: significantly more conservative than it was I mean seventy five

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Speaker 1: years ago. I mean, I feel like this court. You

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Speaker 1: give them that question, they might decide differently.

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Speaker 3: There was an article in The Times on Sunday about

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Speaker 3: the number of times the Supreme Court agrees with the

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Speaker 3: administration and the current Supreme Court. No Supreme court in

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Speaker 3: history has ever agreed with an administration more frequently than

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Speaker 3: this one does. So, you know, Donald Trump could say

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Speaker 3: my opponents have to have to be branded in the

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Speaker 3: middle of their forehead with an L for loser, and

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Speaker 3: they would probably go, well, the executive power should not

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Speaker 3: be constrained. Look, Molly, I think what we're seeing here

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Speaker 3: these are the kind of things that really show us

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Speaker 3: who this administration is. And Stephen Miller by saying that

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Speaker 3: he wants to enforce a speech code in this country

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Speaker 3: and enforce ideological conformity, and to try to use this

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Speaker 3: tragedy to pennant on everyone who speaks against the president,

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Speaker 3: you know, it does show you also something that clip,

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Speaker 3: in particular, that Steven Miller's crazy. This guy has more

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Speaker 3: than a couple of bolts loose up top. I wonder

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Speaker 3: in some ways the president looks at Miller and says,

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Speaker 3: he's the guy who understands my base. I wonder in

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Speaker 3: some ways, just like with RFK, if we're going to

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Speaker 3: star reaching a point of diminishing returns with Steven Miller

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Speaker 3: soon because that stuff he's doing on TV is cuckoo Town.

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Speaker 1: Well again, I think it's also a question of like

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Speaker 1: is it more trouble than it's worth? And that goes

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Speaker 1: to Chicago. And I'd love to talk about Chicago because

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Speaker 1: Trump was all ready to go into Chicago last week

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Speaker 1: and he changed his mind.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: That is like when Trump says uncle about things that

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Speaker 1: is really important to.

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Speaker 3: You, it means kil a lot when Trump. When Trump tacos,

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Speaker 3: it means a lot. And especially because he really had

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Speaker 3: spent a in the in the period before the Kirk incident,

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Speaker 3: he had spent about a week saying Chicago was weak

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Speaker 3: and dangerous and and the streets were running with blood

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Speaker 3: and all this other stuff, and you know, and and

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Speaker 3: people like Miller had been out talking to reporters telling

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Speaker 3: them We're going to go in, We're gonna we're gonna

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Speaker 3: take the city back. You know, if they if they

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Speaker 3: screw with us, we'll arrest them. And then he backed off,

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Speaker 3: and now we're hearing that he's going to send troops

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Speaker 3: to Memphis, which needs it, red state, blue city, red state,

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Speaker 3: and to Louisiana, which also red state.

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Speaker 1: Blue cities, but again needs it. Is like, is a

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Speaker 1: fake framing, right needs it?

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Speaker 4: You know what?

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Speaker 3: You know? You know, I stand corrected, I stand. You

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Speaker 3: could make a better case for it in those communities.

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Speaker 1: But you still should not make any case that the

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Speaker 1: National Guard should be fighting crime because that's not their job.

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Speaker 3: And also with the Unity Sty, they're picking them a trash.

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Speaker 1: Right, They're picking up trash, they're planting things, and by

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Speaker 1: the way, they are furious. Right. National Guard troops are

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Speaker 1: really mad because these people signed up to save drowning

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Speaker 1: children and fight wars, not to pick up trash and

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Speaker 1: intimidate their neighbors, which is not the purpose. But I

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Speaker 1: think it's worth just for another minute talking about why

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Speaker 1: Trump did not go into Chicago, because Pritzker has certainly

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Speaker 1: has something to do with it. He went into California

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Speaker 1: that was ruled illegal. And then I also wonder about

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Speaker 1: Brandon Johnson. You know, there was a really united front there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think he I think he started to look

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Speaker 3: at Chicago, and there was a possibility there that the

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Speaker 3: Chicago government and courts and law enforcement would all say no,

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Speaker 3: not here, bro. And he has been losing in court

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Speaker 3: a lot, as you know. And I think that there

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Speaker 3: may have been part of this that said, we don't

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Speaker 3: want to have a precedent set because look, in Tennessee

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Speaker 3: and Louisiana, the state governments are going to say cool,

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Speaker 3: we love mister whatever, right. But been in Illinois, I

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Speaker 3: think there was a real chance he could have been

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Speaker 3: legally and professionally embarrassed by this in terms of the city,

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Speaker 3: might have been able to really, you know, put up

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Speaker 3: some meaningful obstacles legally and otherwise to this kind of behavior.

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Speaker 3: So I think the window in which Trump can use

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Speaker 3: the National Guard is closing or has closed. I don't

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Speaker 3: think it's an effective strategy. There. There is pushback inside

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Speaker 3: the military about it, quietly of ours, because they're all

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Speaker 3: over Trump.

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Speaker 1: And it was emailed to a reporter at the Washington

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Speaker 1: Post that that this was terrible for them and that they.

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Speaker 3: Were a look a bad look and killing morale in

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Speaker 3: the Guard.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which I mean, the thing that is so interesting

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Speaker 1: about this administration is like at so many points. So

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Speaker 1: they blew up this boat off the coast. It does

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Speaker 1: it certainly seems like the boat they blew up, they

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Speaker 1: don't have a definitive answer on what was in it.

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Speaker 3: Does they strike you that the boat they blew up

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Speaker 3: might not have really been dug.

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Speaker 1: Well, they were turning around, you saw that, right, they

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Speaker 1: got you know they You know, when people are in

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Speaker 1: the midst of surrendering, you're not supposed to kill them, right.

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Speaker 3: That is the rule that is part of the Uniform

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Speaker 3: Code Military Justice and also in the Geneva Convention a

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Speaker 3: variety of other practices of war where someone says, hey, okay,

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Speaker 3: I give up. You're not supposed to just kill them.

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Speaker 3: And look, I think what you're seeing. Also, and there's

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Speaker 3: a little bit of a reporting about this, You've got

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Speaker 3: Rit Grennell and Marco Rubio fighting over control of who's

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Speaker 3: going to be the Venezuela person. It's an odd fight

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Speaker 3: and one that I will never see on pay per view,

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Speaker 3: I presume. But it really strikes me that one side

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Speaker 3: is leaking like a sieve, and it doesn't seem like

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Speaker 3: it's Rubio's side who was controlling this until that moment.

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Speaker 3: And I wonder what the value added is for the

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Speaker 3: Trump administration to declare war on Venezuela and to pretend

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Speaker 3: that they're stopping Trendiagua by blowing up shrimp boats.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but then there's also the larger question of a

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Speaker 1: lot and I feel like so much news got drapped

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Speaker 1: out by the by his other stuff. But like Scott

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Speaker 1: Bessen had, yes, White House Fight Club, Scott Bessont has,

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Speaker 1: now he's going to beat up Pulty. I'll be very

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Speaker 1: curious to find out what happens with Bill PULTI because

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Speaker 1: this guy provided all of this evidence of stuff, and

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Speaker 1: now Lisa Cook it looks like is exonerated, right.

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Speaker 3: Or not just a little exonerated, like like completely she

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Speaker 3: said in the filings when she filed for the mortgage,

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Speaker 3: this is a vacation home. I'm not asking for a

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Speaker 3: homestead exemption. So I mean, I think she's got a

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Speaker 3: case against this guy.

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Speaker 1: I don't parents actually did commit mortgage fraud.

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Speaker 3: Right, Yes?

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Speaker 1: They correct so they So the irony here is incredibly rich.

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Speaker 1: Bill Pulty has made an enemy out of Scott Besson.

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Speaker 1: Scott Besson, who you know had his last scene focusing

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Speaker 1: with Elon Musk, meaning I just.

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Speaker 3: Want to see these guys, Like, I want to see

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Speaker 3: these guys fight it out.

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Speaker 1: You know what's funny, They said they were going to

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Speaker 1: do mm A fighting at the White House. Remember that, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: why not just go all in? Well, maybe it's already happening.

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Speaker 1: Maybe the m m A fighting is.

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Speaker 3: The along the way, right, or.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it's just the it's just Scott Best and beating

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Speaker 1: up different people from the administration.

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Speaker 3: So it's a lot of thrills and spills the fans.

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Speaker 3: We'll see on here.

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Speaker 1: Is a white House Fight Club, White House fight Club. So,

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Speaker 1: and the first rule of White House Fight Club is

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Speaker 1: that Scott Besson does in Scott the apparently the White House.

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Speaker 3: Flight Club is you leak it to Axios.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well, and the second rule of White House Fight

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Speaker 1: Club is if you're fighting with someone who has more

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Speaker 1: than seven jobs, you're probably gonna get fired. So like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: Marco has had fights with people and he's gotten their jobs.

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Speaker 1: Scott Bessen has had fights with people and he's gotten

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Speaker 1: their jobs. So I could see a world in which

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Speaker 1: this is the end of Bill PULTI yeah.

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Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think Bill Poulty is a guy

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Speaker 3: that Donald Trump wakes up in the morning and says,

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Speaker 3: my god, what will I do without him?

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Speaker 1: But it is interesting, like that's just another guy, rich

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Speaker 1: guy who Trump was friends with. I mean, the barrier

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Speaker 1: to entry in this administration continues to be an Evolf right,

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Speaker 1: do I like you? Are? The vibes good? Right?

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Speaker 3: He was a developer, I know them, I am one,

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Speaker 3: I love them all.

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Speaker 1: I think the real question, though, is just the idea

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Speaker 1: that you have a guy who is just sort of

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Speaker 1: putting people in the cabinet. It is the one thing

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Speaker 1: that I think is different from Trump one point zero

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Speaker 1: is we're not seeing like the wall of firing, which

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Speaker 1: means all of these people are staying in the administration,

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Speaker 1: which means true. Talk me through that, because that seems

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Speaker 1: like I feel like Scott, like firing your your head,

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Speaker 1: your director of Defense might have been a better move

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Speaker 1: than keeping him in.

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Speaker 3: Well. I think Trump looked at the things that hurt

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Speaker 3: him politically in the first administration and determined he was

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Speaker 3: going to take that sort of Roy Cone approach from

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Speaker 3: now on. My people never do anything wrong. They're always right.

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Speaker 3: Screw you. If you criticize them, you're criticizing me. And

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Speaker 3: I also think there's something that's changed inside the administration

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Speaker 3: is he's willing to move people laterally, like Mike Webles

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Speaker 3: was was National Security Advisor until they added to Laura Lumer.

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Speaker 1: Well and didn't he ask, oh Laura Lumer okay, yeah, yeah, And.

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Speaker 3: Laura Lumer fired all of his staff and then Trump said, well, Marco,

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Speaker 3: you can be National Security Advisor. And and but Mike

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Speaker 3: Walls didn't get humiliated and he got the United Nations job.

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Speaker 3: You know, So they play it a little differently this

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Speaker 3: time because Trump doesn't want to be seen as losing

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Speaker 3: any battles, and so it's going to take a lot

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Speaker 3: to fire even sect drunk Pete Hegseth.

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Speaker 1: But Pete Seth is still like adding people to signal chat.

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Speaker 1: I mean, maybe he's not actively doing it, but clearly

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Speaker 1: the problems have not gone away.

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Speaker 3: No, and look, Pete Hexseth is is a singularly destructive

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Speaker 3: Secretary of Defense. And at no point should the folks

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Speaker 3: that are on the current Joint chiefs of Staff ever

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Speaker 3: wake up and think I'm serving this country effectively by

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Speaker 3: working for Petexseth. They will not be replaced by somebody

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Speaker 3: better or more responsible. They are. They're in a deep

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Speaker 3: hole with this guy because he is I mean, without

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Speaker 3: like being funny or exaggerating, petexth is mentally incapable of

439
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,719
Speaker 3: doing this job. They will put somebody stupider in the job.

440
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 3: When Pterexath goes.

441
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:08,560
Speaker 1: Rick, give us like a reason to not despair.

442
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 3: Donald Trump is a failing president. His poll numbers suck,

443
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:17,120
Speaker 3: and they suck hard by the way they are bad.

444
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 3: Donald Trump's numbers are now in the high to mid thirties.

445
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 3: He is not a popular president. His policies are failing

446
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 3: almost across the board. Everything he does, almost every single

447
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 3: day is mediated by the fear of revelations on the

448
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:33,080
Speaker 3: Epstein matter.

449
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: Right, that is true.

450
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 3: He has been permanently branded as being a friend associate

451
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 3: running But however you want to describe it of an

452
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 3: infamous sex trafficker and an infamous pedophile. He's talking about

453
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 3: freeing the woman who ran the operations of that infamous

454
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 3: sex traffickers pedophile child trafficking ring. Yeah, nothing about this

455
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 3: is good for him. Donald Trump is also now an

456
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 3: international laughing stock, and he knows about the world knows it.

457
00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 3: The tariff move has absolutely empowered China more than almost

458
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 3: any other country on Earth. The United States is a

459
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 3: laughing stock in foreign policy because no matter what Vladimir

460
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 3: Putin does, Trump will say, yes, sir, three bags full,

461
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 3: can I go wash your car? Yeah. So he's a

462
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:26,159
Speaker 3: terrible president. His presidency is failed and failing. He is

463
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 3: doing awful things, but that ability to do these awful

464
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 3: things is now diminishing with a weaker economy. It's diminishing

465
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 3: with an administration that is obsessed with one issue, Jeffrey

466
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,479
Speaker 3: Epstein behind the curtain. And as much as he can

467
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 3: do evil and do wrong, he's also eighty years old,

468
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 3: and he's not in good health, and the time is ticking,

469
00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 3: and the actuarial tables are undefeated. And I don't think

470
00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,000
Speaker 3: that we should look at Trumps as powerful as he

471
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:00,600
Speaker 3: would have been if he'd come back in twenty twenty one,

472
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 3: either a reelection or through January sixth. He's physically and

473
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 3: mentally office game. He's slipped.

474
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:09,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, he seems to.

475
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 3: It's going to catch up with all of us eventually.

476
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 3: But he is not the guy he was six months ago.

477
00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 3: You can see it, you can feel it. And he

478
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 3: doesn't have the same instincts and the same ability and

479
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 3: the same power. Is the Republican Party still his bitch,

480
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 3: of course it is.

481
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 1: Ben Wickler is the former head of Wisconsin Democrats. Welcome

482
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 1: Ben to Fast Politics.

483
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 4: Thanks got to be back, Bally.

484
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:38,320
Speaker 1: I wanted to have you on because I wanted to

485
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,359
Speaker 1: talk about the moment Democrats are in and I've written

486
00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:43,959
Speaker 1: a lot about it. I've been thinking about a lot

487
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,840
Speaker 1: about it. It's an insane moment in American life. So

488
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: talk us through what this looks like right now. And

489
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 1: I want you to talk us through like where the

490
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: Democrats are. First, talk us through Democrats more generally, and

491
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: then talk us through what easing to party party structure.

492
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:06,040
Speaker 4: Sure, so we have a split screen right now, and

493
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 4: the split screen is a kind of national conversation that's

494
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 4: totally dominated by Trump and his allies for two reasons.

495
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 4: One is that they own the means of distribution. They

496
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,040
Speaker 4: own acts, the federal government, as browbeating national media, as

497
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 4: the usions the newspapers have been bought by people who

498
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,199
Speaker 4: now have a huge financial interest in koutout and to

499
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,679
Speaker 4: the Trump administration. And the other side is that Trump

500
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 4: himself and the whole ecosystem that people on the right

501
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 4: are extremely skilled at driving conversation constantly and so it's

502
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 4: both that the people who control the algorithms have an

503
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 4: interest in lifting out their narratives, but also the fact

504
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 4: that they're a lot better using those algorithms to get

505
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,719
Speaker 4: the word out, and they're doing horrible, horrible things. And

506
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 4: so there's authoritary breakthrough national crisis moment, and the public

507
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 4: basically is only hearing from the right. They're not hearing

508
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 4: from Democrats, in part for structural reasons and in part

509
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:01,560
Speaker 4: because the kind of across the board, and there's lots

510
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 4: of individual people that are getting this much better. But

511
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 4: Democrats need to get really good at figuring out how

512
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 4: to do things they can break through the news cycle.

513
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:11,399
Speaker 4: And that means actually not just having the right words

514
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,399
Speaker 4: that are not offensive to anyone, It means actually driving

515
00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 4: actions so that Republicans are responding to what Democrats are

516
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,520
Speaker 4: doing to fight back as opposed to Democrats girl clutching

517
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 4: at the latest horror. And the horrors are very real.

518
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 4: It's not wrong to condemn the horrors, but as long

519
00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,440
Speaker 4: as we're playing on their turf, we're losing. So that's

520
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 4: the first part. All of us feel that any what

521
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 4: has made attention even a bit feels of like how

522
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 4: could this all be happening and there's no like, you know,

523
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 4: nothing's breaking through, there's no pushback. Is mind rending. The

524
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 4: other side of the split screen is what is happening

525
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 4: on the ground. And I got an early taste of

526
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 4: this because I was in Wisconsin leading the Democratic Party

527
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 4: Wisconsin when Elon Musk came in and dropped what you know,

528
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,480
Speaker 4: by my math, it's about fifty three million dollars on

529
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 4: the Supreme Court race the spring and then lost by

530
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,720
Speaker 4: ten percentage points to Susan Crawford, who got more votes

531
00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:59,200
Speaker 4: not only than any Supreme Court justice ever in the state,

532
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 4: she got more votes than any Republican candidate for governor

533
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 4: in a November election in an even numbered you know,

534
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,800
Speaker 4: midterm year has ever gotten That turns out was not atypical.

535
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 4: Democrats are overperforming over and over and over and over.

536
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 4: The average over performance is like sixteen percentage points this year,

537
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 4: which is like vastly higher than it was in twenty seventeen,

538
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 4: which was a banner year for Democrats kiking ass and

539
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 4: special elections. And that is driven by this just palpable

540
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 4: sense of urgency and rage and readiness to do anything

541
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 4: to save the country that millions of people feel on

542
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 4: the ground all over the place. If you ask run

543
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 4: for something, they're saying they're seeing vastly more people signing

544
00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,120
Speaker 4: up to run for local office than they've ever seen.

545
00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 4: You can see this whole crop of people announcing campaigns

546
00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 4: for the US Senate, which was supposed to be unwinnable,

547
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 4: and now in state after state after state, we have

548
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 4: these really compelling candidates that are communicating in new ways.

549
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 4: There's just a huge boiling energy. And in a sense,

550
00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 4: these two things are going to crash into each other

551
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:00,320
Speaker 4: in the next year and a half because on the

552
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 4: one hand, you have a Trump administration that's trying to

553
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,880
Speaker 4: dismember the country, rig the system, completely lock in permanent control,

554
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 4: and on the other side, this energy that's coming up

555
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,360
Speaker 4: from below, that is, you know, both through massive organizing

556
00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 4: and mobilization, through ways of lawsuits, through like every non

557
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 4: election day tactic, but also through political mobilization, is trying

558
00:30:20,240 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 4: to counter this this lurch to the right. And I

559
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 4: think they're going to be booed by the fact that

560
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 4: Trump has been a total disaster for working people across

561
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 4: the country, especially the people who pay the least attention

562
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 4: to politics, who you know, were sort of changing the channel,

563
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:34,400
Speaker 4: like she's trying something else, because that felt like what

564
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,239
Speaker 4: was going on before wasn't working. If you look at

565
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 4: the public, they're also concluding that this is not working.

566
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 4: And so I think there's every likelihood that to the

567
00:30:40,760 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 4: extent we have a fair and freevy election, then it

568
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 4: could also be a wave election and a major change

569
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 4: election in twenty six. I think the same thing could

570
00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:52,479
Speaker 4: happened this fall. Pennsylvania statrib Court is incredibly important fight Virginia,

571
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 4: New Jersey. And what the Democratic Party is two things.

572
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 4: It is, on the one handed, kind of a morphous

573
00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 4: blob of everyone who publicly identifies as the Democrat, every

574
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 4: elected official of the d next to their name, and

575
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 4: a lot of people eyes next to their names. It's

576
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 4: the commentators, it's all the different committees, the spaghetti sup

577
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 4: of different organizations, it's all the affiliated allied groups. It's

578
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 4: the all these different elements and this deep fundamental partnership

579
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 4: with the union movement. And then it's also an institution

580
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 4: with like the Democratic National Committee, with state committees in

581
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,560
Speaker 4: each state. And this is a moment of reckoning for

582
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 4: the Democratic Party. And in those moments of reckoning. There's

583
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 4: always going to be a lot of conflict, Like that's

584
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 4: just how that's how generational change works, that's how shifting

585
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 4: shifting gears, how begging things through.

586
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 3: Works.

587
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 4: If there wasn't, I think that would be really bad news.

588
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:39,400
Speaker 4: And I would love to see, like I would love

589
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,400
Speaker 4: to see the Democratic Party breaking through and demonstrating into

590
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,240
Speaker 4: the country that we have an opposition party at this

591
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 4: moment and that it is fighting back at the same time,

592
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 4: Like there are these internal conversations that are happening all

593
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 4: over the place and often spelling out into the public.

594
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 4: And the most important thing is whether millions of people

595
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 4: are deciding themselves to become the heroes in this moment

596
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 4: and taking on the work, which could be recruiting candidate

597
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 4: or running for off as yourself, or it's donating it,

598
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 4: marching every weekend and talking to friends and neighbors, making

599
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 4: list of people you know who didn't vote in twenty

600
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:07,960
Speaker 4: four Like, there's so many things that people can do.

601
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 4: So I'm in a hair and fire state about the

602
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 4: risk of the country to every person in the country.

603
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 4: It is basically locked in that millions and millions of

604
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 4: people are going to die because of this administration, because

605
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 4: of what they've done to vaccines, because of what they've

606
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 4: done to global health at fart AID, because of what

607
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 4: they've done to health policy in the United States. Like,

608
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 4: there's so much pain that has already begun for so

609
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 4: many people, and it's going to get so much worse,

610
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 4: and their threat to the basic function of democracy is

611
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 4: so bad. But I'm heartened by the level of and

612
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,040
Speaker 4: the intensity of the response, even if it's you have

613
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 4: to look pretty hard to find it because it's not

614
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:39,640
Speaker 4: being covered properly. That to me is really hardening.

615
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,440
Speaker 1: Okay, you've made me feel so much better. I can't

616
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 1: decide is it because I like you so much anyway,

617
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: because I'm always like, give a supers wee of red hair,

618
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: so people with red hair are always good. But also

619
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: that you have a soothing present in a moment that

620
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: is not very soothing. Why are you not DNC chair

621
00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: And shouldn't you be DNC chair? And make me feel

622
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 1: better that you're not DNC chair?

623
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 4: Well, I ran for Dunca chair. I have a lot

624
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 4: of respect for Kim Martin. I've known for years. I

625
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 4: think in the race, I was reminded of something that

626
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 4: I say all the time, you know in Wisconsin, which

627
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 4: is that if you want to build the trust of

628
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 4: an electorate, you have to build relationships with them over

629
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 4: years and not just show up in the last couple

630
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,760
Speaker 4: of months. And I very conscious that I jumped into

631
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 4: the race for DNC chair on December first of twenty

632
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 4: twenty four, two months out from election day. This is

633
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:28,280
Speaker 4: not something that I'd dreamed of and Lake groundwork for.

634
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 4: And Ken has been leading the Association of the state

635
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,920
Speaker 4: parties and was building relationships, serving on the DNC executive Committee.

636
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 4: Was making the case to people and they knew him.

637
00:33:36,880 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 4: And trust comes from knowing someone and seeing them in action,

638
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,680
Speaker 4: So like elections are like that, and it's why I

639
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 4: think year round organizing is so absolutely essential. That's the

640
00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 4: gospel that I was preaching. But Ken was making the

641
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 4: same argument and people knew him, so they heard it

642
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 4: from him in the same way, which kind of proves

643
00:33:51,880 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 4: the argument itself. I will find lots of other ways

644
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 4: to lead into the fight. And I also think that

645
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 4: in a sense, this is going to be a fight

646
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 4: where the DNC of everybody's fantasies wouldn't be able to

647
00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 4: do this by itself because chance. It's going to be

648
00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 4: this huge surge of a bazillion different folks stepping into

649
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,680
Speaker 4: the breach in a bazillion different ways, and that there

650
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 4: are a lot of voters for whom the Democratic Party

651
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,960
Speaker 4: will never be the right messenger. So even if the

652
00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 4: Democratic Party said everything perfectly in every perfect place, and

653
00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 4: that might improve the party's brand, imagine it was ten

654
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,919
Speaker 4: percentage points better, it would still be really low. Right, Yeah,

655
00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:28,800
Speaker 4: that would be if we could spike up its approval

656
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 4: as a national party by an unprecedented degree, that still

657
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 4: would not be enough to get a majority. People like

658
00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,879
Speaker 4: great candidates of which we're seeing all these people coming

659
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,160
Speaker 4: out of would work. I love like launch video TV

660
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 4: is my have replaced right now? These candidates are making

661
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 4: the case that they see what's wrong with a broken

662
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 4: system and they're going to challenge the system of role

663
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 4: and they're going to change it. That people, it is

664
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 4: not Democrats running on like restore the status quo. Democrats

665
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:55,239
Speaker 4: are running on this isn't normal, but what's normal is

666
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 4: not okay, Like we need to actually make this whole

667
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 4: country work. And if the Democrat like correct party in

668
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 4: a sense isn't the right messenger for that, because it's

669
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 4: the oldest political party, I believe, the oldest continuous political

670
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 4: party in the world. As an entity, it doesn't embody

671
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 4: the idea of fighting for change in the minds of

672
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 4: the people who are most skeptical of it. So, you know,

673
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 4: there's just there's a lot of heroes that we need

674
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,680
Speaker 4: at this moment, and some of them are in the

675
00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 4: party and in the party structure, and a ton of

676
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 4: them are outside of it. And a lot of the

677
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,520
Speaker 4: voters that we need are people who think that both

678
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 4: parties are fundamentally broken, corrupt and evil, and who nonetheless

679
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 4: we need to find, you know, who can communicate with

680
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 4: them and build enough trust to say it is worth

681
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 4: it casting a vote in this next election because everything's

682
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 4: on the line.

683
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: You're seeing these huge wins and these specials. Example, as

684
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: there was a Virginia seat fifteen points over deliver on

685
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: that seat. When you look at Democrats in office, Robert

686
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: Garcian oversight is a really good example. They got the

687
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: birthday book, They got the birthday book out there. I

688
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: was shocked at how much that, you know, they handled

689
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 1: it in just extremely in a way where they were

690
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,719
Speaker 1: able to break through one of the big problems is

691
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: Democrats can't break through. Harris had real problems breaking through

692
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: by an administration could not break through. Give me your

693
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:09,799
Speaker 1: feeling on.

694
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 4: This, Yeah, I mean I think that the chair or

695
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 4: breaking member borg on the Birthday book, it's a perfect

696
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,840
Speaker 4: example of the right kind of move. I'm like working

697
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 4: in my house right now, and part of what you

698
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 4: do when you're trying to you prove your house is

699
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,960
Speaker 4: you put positive air pressure into the house and see

700
00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 4: where the air leaks. And I think of what Trump

701
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 4: is trying to do right now, as it's like you're

702
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 4: putting air pressure into the whole American political system to

703
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,799
Speaker 4: see every crack in the system where you can then

704
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:37,080
Speaker 4: like shove through authoritarian power. So like the federal government

705
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 4: doesn't control the police. Oh, but you can create your

706
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 4: own secret police force through the ICE funding and through

707
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 4: sending in truth with all these different things, I think

708
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 4: in a sense democrats need the same kind of approach

709
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:48,920
Speaker 4: to think about how to break through, which is to say,

710
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 4: you have to try a ton of stuff. You have

711
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 4: to try doing things you haven't done before. You have

712
00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 4: to try. Like the big thing is that message doesn't

713
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 4: mean anything if no one hears it, and right people

714
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 4: hear things tends to be through actions, not through words.

715
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 4: There need to be actual events, things need to happen

716
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 4: for it to become you know, of note, and that

717
00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,440
Speaker 4: is going to I'm sure form the conversation about the shutdown,

718
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 4: which is like why are we you know, funding the

719
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:18,400
Speaker 4: This is destruction then the wholesale destruction of the systems

720
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 4: that have saved millions of American lives for the last

721
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 4: like half century, like the attacks on healthcare, all these

722
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 4: different things, Like yesual they have to have a fight

723
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 4: that draws attention, that shows whose side you're on, and

724
00:37:31,080 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 4: there are there are a bunch of people who have

725
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:35,960
Speaker 4: figured out interesting ways to do that across the country.

726
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 4: That there should be more like learning from each other,

727
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 4: and they should be constant experimentation, like the worst has

728
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,359
Speaker 4: already happened. So the risk of screwing up is much

729
00:37:44,440 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 4: lower now than it is if you think that, like

730
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 4: you're right on the right on the border being able

731
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 4: to to win something back. If Democrats try something and

732
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 4: nobody notices it, then it's like it never happens. You

733
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 4: might as well try enough things that eventually some of

734
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 4: the things are gonna get noticed. And I think that

735
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,520
Speaker 4: that's you know, I think that the fight of a

736
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 4: redistrictigain actually retaliating with that is great. I think that

737
00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 4: fighting new ways to community communicate is great. I think

738
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 4: upping production value is great. I think a lot about

739
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:15,280
Speaker 4: the the January sixth Committee, the fact that they brought

740
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 4: in you know, serious news like TV producers to create

741
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 4: something that would actually be a storytelling vehicle and create

742
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 4: spectacle in moments. That to means the right idea you

743
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 4: should like simultaneously, you should try super high production value

744
00:38:28,520 --> 00:38:31,719
Speaker 4: stuff that is really well crafted is storytelling, and also

745
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 4: try a lot of totally spontaneous stuff that is gritty

746
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 4: and low production value, but that actually, you know, it

747
00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 4: gives people the sense that they're there. There's a political

748
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 4: scientist who I think it was the discussible had.

749
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 1: The Fedris Scotch peal with Lover from Harvard.

750
00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:50,160
Speaker 4: Yes, the out party innovation the idea that basically the

751
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 4: political party that's out of power tends to innovate more.

752
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,000
Speaker 4: And you know, if you remember two thousand and eight,

753
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 4: Democrats had figured out how to use the Internet first

754
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,640
Speaker 4: and boom, like did they crush it? And then twenty

755
00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 4: sixteen they were still using the vaccine technology they'd built

756
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 4: when they were out of power. It was literally built

757
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 4: on the Obamba campaign digital platform and it was trying

758
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 4: using the thing at that moment. Yeah, this is Democrats

759
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 4: are out of power now and they need to act

760
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 4: act like it. And that means like you know, cracking

761
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 4: things open and seeing what's inside and letting a million

762
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 4: flowers bloom. Algorithms are changing, like man, I mean AI

763
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:21,680
Speaker 4: is a good example right now. Right Like there's there's

764
00:39:21,719 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 4: this explosion of new ways to create media and create content.

765
00:39:25,280 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 4: You can create songs that's only professional songs in a

766
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 4: couple of minutes. You can create video. There's constantly new things.

767
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 4: Democrats should try creating a bazillion different things all the

768
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,839
Speaker 4: time and then also used totally not anythings. But like

769
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 4: it is, it is so much cheaper to be able

770
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 4: to try making videos like make a you know video

771
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 4: guide to the Epstein birthday book, like try and make

772
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 4: twenty different ones, come up with the contest who can

773
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 4: make the best one to get it up there, and

774
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 4: that stuff provokes conversation, So I like it's just the

775
00:39:53,920 --> 00:39:55,320
Speaker 4: time to play it. Stafe is so far in the

776
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 4: back and in the RuView mirror for me and like

777
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 4: this is a time for a walls car and spaghetti,

778
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 4: like some of it's going to stake.

779
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,560
Speaker 1: I just wrote this piece for Vanny Fair about democratic messengers,

780
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 1: who are the democratic messengers? And one of the things

781
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:14,279
Speaker 1: that I was struck by was a staffer told me

782
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 1: that they thought that during this election, the twenty eight cycle,

783
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: god willing, that there would be moments where there may

784
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 1: be like actually going on something like Joe Rogan or

785
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 1: theovonn would actually be more meaningful because it breaks out

786
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:34,960
Speaker 1: of the silo.

787
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,960
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, a bunch of Democrats have been on Joe

788
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 4: Rogan and the Theovan and it's great, Like the water's fine.

789
00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:44,560
Speaker 4: Your part of it is that long form podcasting ass

790
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 4: like a medium form the fath Politics pod.

791
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: Yes, I think we're pretty much short form compared to

792
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: that to three hours.

793
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, anything bigger than cable news lends itself to actually

794
00:40:55,600 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 4: like finding rapport finding some of you agree and if

795
00:40:58,120 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 4: you have a conflict that tends to like go to

796
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,399
Speaker 4: resolute as opposed to people like just get like cut,

797
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,399
Speaker 4: getting their micscut when wandering off. And that's good. It's

798
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,280
Speaker 4: good for Democrats to learn how to do that well.

799
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:10,720
Speaker 4: And not be constantly like dodging like every possible landmin

800
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 4: or eggshell, having a bad news cycle and surviving it,

801
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,280
Speaker 4: like is a very good way to discover that Actually

802
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 4: it's like it is more risky to be completely risk

803
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,719
Speaker 4: averse than it is to create a larger volume and

804
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:23,520
Speaker 4: a larger presence and the larger footprint. And that's the

805
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,319
Speaker 4: general direction. Like you a world where every media out

806
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 4: that like at best only has a tiny fraction of

807
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 4: the country's attentionion, you have to just be in a

808
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 4: lot more places, a lot more at the time to

809
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,080
Speaker 4: be able to break through, and then every so often,

810
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 4: like something actually catches the whole country. If you live

811
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 4: in fear of ever having a bad viral moment, then

812
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 4: you'll never have a good viral moment. And if you

813
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:43,319
Speaker 4: ever have a good viral moment, no one will know

814
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:44,160
Speaker 4: that you exist.

815
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that, because I think one of the

816
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 1: things that really hurt by world was being so cautious.

817
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think it's pretty clear probably to

818
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:58,120
Speaker 4: everyone in the universe at this point that the yeah,

819
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,000
Speaker 4: the volume of communication that was coming out of the

820
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 4: illustration became very very small. And if you remember the beginning,

821
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:07,239
Speaker 4: of the Harris campaign. It was this explosion like the

822
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:10,640
Speaker 4: Brat summer that that moment, like all the Viepstakes with

823
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 4: all my presential candidates going on to TV all the time,

824
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 4: the kind of audition to spokespeople like that. People were

825
00:42:15,880 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 4: actually hearing from Democrats and hearing for them in ways

826
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,319
Speaker 4: that felt new right, and they loved it. Yeah. I

827
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 4: was at the first I was the opening speaker at

828
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 4: the first rally in a battleground state of the presidential campaign.

829
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 4: Emily Harris came to this high school in Wisconsin and

830
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 4: it was just explosive, like people were ready to lift

831
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 4: the roof with their cheering and joy. And then that's

832
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 4: red and they recruited other people and you know, people

833
00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:42,240
Speaker 4: got involved in a level that was like just totally amazing.

834
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,800
Speaker 4: And I think like those good feelings are good People

835
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 4: fundamentally remember, like at the deepest level, they remember what

836
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:51,400
Speaker 4: political figures make them feel about themselves, how they make

837
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 4: them feel in their bodies. And to be able to

838
00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:55,480
Speaker 4: get to the point where you can then trigger any

839
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 4: kind of feeling, it involves vulnerability, which involves risk. It

840
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 4: just does They're communicating a lot and then being able

841
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 4: to find your groove and all the when you think

842
00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 4: through like the kind of political turning point moments, they're

843
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,440
Speaker 4: all things that involve emotion fundamentally, they go deeper than

844
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 4: arguments or ideas. And I think that's the in a way,

845
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 4: part of what we need to be looking for in

846
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 4: candidates for offices at every level and leaders who spokespeople

847
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:19,360
Speaker 4: all this stuff is people who can actually make people

848
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 4: feel something, because that's how you can build, like memories

849
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 4: formed around emotions. The strongest memories are all built around emotions.

850
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 4: If you have an idea that you can attest to

851
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 4: that connects to the broader vision. The Democrats are for

852
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,759
Speaker 4: the country, Like Ben, that's great, but the baseline has

853
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,719
Speaker 4: to be what actually like touched you and made you

854
00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:33,839
Speaker 4: feel something and remember it.

855
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right, Ben. Will you please come back?

856
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:42,200
Speaker 8: I'd be the leaded. Thanks for having me man, No,

857
00:43:46,040 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 8: Rick Wilson, Yes, Molly.

858
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: How much of our lives have we spent talking about

859
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:51,520
Speaker 1: Fox News?

860
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:52,719
Speaker 4: Too fucking much?

861
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: Honestly, Brian kill Mead you may remember him from nothing,

862
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: that guy kill me? What did Brian Meed say this week?

863
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,320
Speaker 3: Brian killed me this week advocated for giving the homeless

864
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 3: lethal injections to get them.

865
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 4: On the street.

866
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 1: That's right.

867
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,840
Speaker 3: You know. I was told I heard, I heard this

868
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 3: week that the rhetoric in this country was too hot, yes,

869
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,920
Speaker 3: and that we need to all back down and talk

870
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 3: nice to do each other. I did not have injecting

871
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 3: the homeless with lethal injections and killing them on my

872
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,520
Speaker 3: Fox News bingo card this week. Maybe I should have,

873
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 3: Maybe I should have lowered the standard a little bit, but.

874
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 1: Jesus lowly, I mean, I understand we're not supposed to

875
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: call them unhoused because it makes us seem unrelatable as liberals.

876
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,319
Speaker 1: But I still think we shouldn't kill them, you.

877
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 3: Know, whether you call them homeless or unhoused or whatever

878
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 3: view you have of them. Brian kill Me is now

879
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 3: advocating since about sixty percent of homeless folks are veterans,

880
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 3: he's advocating killing homeless veterans. Now he has supposedly walked

881
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 3: it back some like week walk back on it now.

882
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,799
Speaker 1: He I did apologize, yes, And by the way, for

883
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: a Fox News host to apologize is not nothing.

884
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 3: No, it's not nothing. But here's the thing. This shows

885
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 3: you the hypocrisy of how the networks work. If that

886
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:14,759
Speaker 3: had happened, as we saw from somebody getting fired on

887
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,959
Speaker 3: MSNBC this week for not being sufficiently sensitive about Charlie Kirk.

888
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 3: If that had happened in another network of any kind

889
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:22,880
Speaker 3: and any other outlet, he would have been taken off

890
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 3: the set. But a Fox, it's like haha, So look,

891
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,719
Speaker 3: Ryan killed me. There's no rocket scientist to begin with.

892
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 3: And maybe he thought it was a funny joke or

893
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 3: thought he was working up to some sort of like

894
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 3: statement on it, but he basically was anyone to kill

895
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 3: the hoholmus. I don't know, call me crazy, but that

896
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 3: doesn't seem like lowering the temperature with Wilson.

897
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:41,640
Speaker 1: I'll see you next week.

898
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 3: I'll see you next week.

899
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of Fast Politics. Tune in

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00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:53,800
Speaker 1: every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and Saturday to hear the best

901
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:58,160
Speaker 1: minds and politics make sense of all this chaos. If

902
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:01,280
Speaker 1: you enjoy this podcast, please send it to a friend

903
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: and keep the conversation going. Thanks for listening.