1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol Messer and Tim 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. 3 00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:08,479 Speaker 2: I gotta say there's a story that I'm obsessed about. 4 00:00:08,520 --> 00:00:10,880 Speaker 2: We've been talking about in the newsroom. Three years ago, 5 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 2: a group of sixteen youth climate activists decided to take 6 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,720 Speaker 2: the state of Montana to court, challenging a provision in 7 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 2: a law that limits climate change considerations during environmental reviews 8 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 2: of proposed fossil fuel projects. This week, Tim, they won 9 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 2: that's right. 10 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 3: On August fourteenth, a judge there ruled that the current 11 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 3: state law violates the youth plaintifts right to a clean 12 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 3: and healthful environment I write spelled out explicitly in the 13 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 3: state's constitution, Carol, was a sweeping, one hundred and three 14 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 3: page decision. The judge also in that decision determined that 15 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 3: climate change is hurting the young Montanas and that their 16 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 3: injuries will grow with increasingly severe climate impacts. 17 00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:47,600 Speaker 2: It's a big deal. Climate change, we know, impacting everything 18 00:00:47,720 --> 00:00:52,640 Speaker 2: increasingly well, stressing our infrastructure. We see that impacting investing, 19 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: taking a lead on decision making and strategy. So with 20 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 2: that in mind, it's kind of where we wanted to 21 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 2: start with our next guest, Kim ver Hiling, is with us. 22 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 2: She is president of National Buildings Practice at STV and 23 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 2: Engineering and Infrastructure firm. We talked last October from a 24 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 2: broadcast at NJIT and so we are delighted to have 25 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 2: Kim back with us. Kim, how are you. 26 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: I'm good. Thanks so much. It's great to hear from 27 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 1: both of you again. 28 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,440 Speaker 2: And thank you for giving a bit a leeway because 29 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 2: we did kind of want to start with you that. 30 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 2: I am curious the conversations Tim and I both are 31 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: about what you are having within your firm about climate change, 32 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: the impact and how that might be in terms of 33 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,840 Speaker 2: future building, future construction, infrastructure build out, how we maybe 34 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 2: have to be dealing with it and thinking about. 35 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 1: It absolutely well. Climate change is integral and we're thinking 36 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: about it on every single project. Obviously STV does a 37 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,000 Speaker 1: lot on the transportation side, but we also do a 38 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: lot and the building side, and so we're all always 39 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: thinking about while we're designing or renovating, how are we 40 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: going to be making sure our buildings are energy efficient? 41 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 1: How are we thinking about and impact to the climate 42 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: as well as resilience, And we see that a lot 43 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:06,520 Speaker 1: with some of the storm conditions that have been happening 44 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: across the country, especially the Sulmar we've sainted, right, and 45 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: all of that is really incumbent on us as professionals 46 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:19,639 Speaker 1: to take the lead in thinking about better solutions for 47 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: how we construct our facilities in the future. 48 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,119 Speaker 3: Kim I was talking to a colleague of mine and Carol, 49 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 3: I don't think I told you the story, but we 50 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 3: were talking about he's looking for a new place in 51 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 3: Brooklyn and he was on the first floor and he 52 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 3: asked about flooding and you know when the sewer's back up, 53 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:35,960 Speaker 3: because it's a normal thing when it rains now and 54 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:37,640 Speaker 3: the super told him, Oh, don't worry. We'll give you 55 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 3: these special doors that you put on the bathroom when 56 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 3: the suit when it rains, so the overflow stays in 57 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 3: the bathroom and doesn't come out of the bathroom. 58 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 2: See the sand bag. 59 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:49,080 Speaker 3: How wonderful, Yeah, how wonderful. Right, not a solution. 60 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: Well, that's right. Well, and obviously those structures that are 61 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,679 Speaker 1: already in place. It's about prevention, but we want a 62 00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: design so you don't have to do those sorts of 63 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 1: things right, that we have the right infrastructure in place 64 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,959 Speaker 1: so it never comes to the point where you have 65 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:04,760 Speaker 1: to put in those those flood barriers. 66 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of crazy. Having said that, you know, 67 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 2: one of the other things that you guys think about 68 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 2: a lot is bringing the world into buildings and making 69 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 2: kind of you know, bringing nature into environments. We work 70 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 2: in an incredible office where there is tons of light, 71 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 2: tons of glass. People walk in and they're like, this 72 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: is where you work, and I'm like, yeah, it's pretty 73 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: amazing because I've worked in a basement studio in a 74 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 2: New York building where there were no windows and I 75 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,280 Speaker 2: had no idea what was going on outside. That is 76 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: also a big part of what you guys do and thinking, 77 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 2: whether it's schools, whether it's correctional facilities. Talk to us 78 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:42,559 Speaker 2: a little bit about daylighting. 79 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, so in daylighting is really the idea that you're 80 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: letting natural sunlight either directly or indirectly into a building, 81 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: but you are correct daylight and is one of our 82 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: top design philosophies, irrespective of what building type we're looking at, 83 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: and I think for those of us during COVID when 84 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: we were scrambling to create offices in our homes, we 85 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 1: realized if you were in a space where you weren't 86 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: getting daylight, and you weren't also having that connection to nature. 87 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 1: It really did impact your mood. And so when we 88 00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: think about daylighting, especially on the educational side, it does 89 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:21,599 Speaker 1: help improve both student health and we've seen that it 90 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: impacts student achievements, so math and reading scores directly. And conversely, 91 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:30,080 Speaker 1: if you don't have that amazing daylight come in, we 92 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,720 Speaker 1: have discomfort, which can reduce learning, and it's also detrimental 93 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: to mental health. And that's kind of how it ties 94 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: over into as we think of justice and correctional facilities. 95 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: It's on that side, it's about providing a normative environments 96 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: so that occupants can thrive and not have unsafe conditions, 97 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 1: both for staff and persons in custody. 98 00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 2: TIMV, I don't know about you. Oh you were working here. 99 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,560 Speaker 2: You didn't really work from home, right, But when I 100 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: were here, when I worked from home for six or 101 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 2: seven months, I actually mind we were doing our live broadcast, 102 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 2: but I set up right next to my window and 103 00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 2: it was just really kind of nice. But I wanted 104 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 2: to be by daylight. So I totally get that, Like 105 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:09,800 Speaker 2: that makes a lot of sense, and I think it 106 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: made a real difference feeling that you really couldn't go 107 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 2: anywhere but to at least have kind of a beautiful 108 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 2: view outside. 109 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 3: But one challenge here with this idea is that so 110 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 3: much of what we see with where kids are in 111 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 3: school and the existing infrastructure, this is stuff that's built, 112 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 3: you know, Kim, more than one hundred years ago. Can 113 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 3: you retrofit this stuff to make it to bring the 114 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 3: daylight in or do you have to start over? 115 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,200 Speaker 1: No, you're absolutely right, but it is true. Obviously, new 116 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: construction is much easier because then you can orient the 117 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:42,840 Speaker 1: school towards to north light, which is always the nicest 118 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: light to bring in. So renovation is a little bit 119 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:48,919 Speaker 1: more challenging. But of course we can look to the 120 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 1: exterior wall to really maximize the window and how much 121 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: light comes in. And then we also use other technologies, 122 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: meaning that outside you may bring in all that light, 123 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:01,960 Speaker 1: but you also don't want glare. Right, there is a 124 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: point where it gets to be too much light and 125 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, the temperature goes up in 126 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: the classroom and it's uncomfortable, right, and then there's a 127 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 1: different problem. And so what we do on day lighting 128 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,799 Speaker 1: strategies is we think about maximizing the glazing, but also 129 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:20,599 Speaker 1: putting in shading controls that will monitor and limit depending 130 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: on the amount of light coming in during the day. 131 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 1: And we also tie that to artificial lighting in the 132 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: classroom with sensors so that we can also be energy efficient, 133 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 1: which goes back to our earlier conversation about climate change. Right, 134 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: And those are some of the moves we're doing to 135 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:41,040 Speaker 1: try and lessen the operational costs for school districts. 136 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 2: Hey, Kim, just got thirty seconds. If you had to 137 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 2: talk about, like, what is the biggest trend when it 138 00:06:44,839 --> 00:06:46,880 Speaker 2: comes to building right now? What is it? 139 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: Well, let's say the trend to building, I would say 140 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:57,599 Speaker 1: it's about a holistic experience and human and mental health 141 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 1: and making sure we're providing in by aments that help 142 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: people thrive for the task at hand in that environment. 143 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 2: All right, Well, I feel like our boss definitely got 144 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:14,400 Speaker 2: that memo years ago. I'm very lucky this is not 145 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 2: one of them old We're like, the windows don't open them, 146 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 2: just door there are now for years. Yeah, the old 147 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,640 Speaker 2: Excellon building that was the basement of. 148 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 3: The New York Stock Exchange. 149 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 2: Right, and you're like, I have no idea, what's going 150 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 2: on outside. Hey Kim be well, have a great rest 151 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,920 Speaker 2: of the summer. Kim Varhollig, she's president of National Buildings, 152 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: practiced at STV, joining us on zoom there. This is Bloomberg.