1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: During the earliest days of this millennium, I took part 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:13,000 Speaker 1: in a kind of history series, an ambitious survey that 3 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: explored milestones in American culture decade by decade. Of course 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: I'm talking about and after. I loved the apies there was, 5 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:40,239 Speaker 1: and really who could forget What made Dynasty work was 6 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 1: the camp fights. Yeah, he went from John Cougar to 7 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 1: John Cougar Mellencamp and I thought, did he get married? 8 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: John Travolta's asked Urban Cowboy is if there should be 9 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:53,360 Speaker 1: a shrine Delta. It was a classy show featuring a 10 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,080 Speaker 1: panoply of commentators, and I was one of them, pondering 11 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: complex topics like nineteen eighties hospital dramas, saying elsewhere it 12 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 1: was and our long drama. It starred Mark Harman as 13 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:11,480 Speaker 1: doctor Bobby Caldwell. Comedian and actor Michael Ian Black was 14 00:01:11,520 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: another contributor. I thought, if anything, the title That's Incredible, 15 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: it was an understatement of how incredible the things on 16 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: That's incredible work. We didn't really know each other back then, 17 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: but I distinctly remember his take on the nineteen eighty 18 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,400 Speaker 1: one Neanderthal epic Quest for Fire. While most of us 19 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 1: were obsessed with the film's nudity, Michael took the high road. 20 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: I was really looking at it more from an anthropological 21 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,040 Speaker 1: point of view than to see ray Don Jones tatas. 22 00:01:38,360 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: And it's that prehistory that's our subject this episode. Since 23 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: Quest for Fire, we've learned some stunning truths about Neanderthals, 24 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 1: and I knew who. I wanted to discuss this topic 25 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: with my friend Michael ian Black back when we were 26 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 1: loving the eighties. Neither of us knew just how connected 27 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: he is to our human cousins of four thousand decades ago. 28 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 1: If they had told me only how much Neanderthal I am, 29 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: I would have paid twice the amount for the test. 30 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: I'm mo Rocca. And this is mobituaries. This mobit Neanderthals 31 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:34,080 Speaker 1: circa forty thousand years ago, death of a human species. Okay, first, 32 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 1: let's take care of some basics. The name Neanderthal comes 33 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: from the neander Valley in Germany, where one of the 34 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: first Neanderthal skulls was found in eighteen fifty six. At 35 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: the time, the fossil was misidentified as the skull of 36 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: a Cossack soldier from the Napoleonic Wars. They were only 37 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,519 Speaker 1: off by a few tens of thousands of years now, 38 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: Neanderthals were also human, but a separate species Homo sapiens. 39 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 1: That's us and Neanderthals did share a common ancestor over 40 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 1: half a million years ago. Almo sapiens would go on 41 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 1: to flourish in Africa, while Neanderthals roamed across Europe and Asia, 42 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 1: adapting to a cold or harsher climate. Eventually the two 43 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: species did meet up. Then, about thirty to forty thousand 44 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: years ago, Neanderthals disappeared without a trace, or so we thought, 45 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: which brings me to my guest, Michael ian Black. So, 46 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,320 Speaker 1: Michael Ian Black, thank you so much for joining me 47 00:03:32,360 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: for this whole episode. My pleasure. Let's get the promotion 48 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: out of the way first, because it's deserved. Your podcast, 49 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: How to Be Amazing is amazing. Yes, you can be 50 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 1: on it. No, yes, I think that's where I was going. 51 00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:49,360 Speaker 1: So years ago I interviewed you about your one of 52 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 1: your books, Naval Gazing, and in it you talked about 53 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:59,080 Speaker 1: genetic testing and why did you go about investigating your 54 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: genetic makeup? I think the same reason most people do, 55 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: just curiosity. I just wanted to know genetically speaking, who 56 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: I am. I had it in my head that I 57 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 1: must be at least a pastiche of things, some kind 58 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: of milange. I was hoping to find some African Americans, 59 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 1: some Native American but the results were so disappointingly kind 60 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: of exactly what I had been led to believe, which 61 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 1: is that I am a hundred percent Ashkenazi Jew. I 62 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: do think the food is better than Sephardic food. Delicious, 63 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,280 Speaker 1: delicious if you just take the gafiltha fish out of 64 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,480 Speaker 1: that which I have always associated and will always associate 65 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 1: with just jellied cat turns. But but you say you 66 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: found out you were one hundred percent Ashkenazic Jew. But 67 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: that's not quite right. Well, it is in terms of ethicity. 68 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: But there was also a marker which I didn't know 69 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: till I got it back from the company that says 70 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: it will also tell you your Neanderthal percentages. If they 71 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 1: had told me only how much Neanderthal I am, I 72 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: would have paid twice the amount for the test, because 73 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,680 Speaker 1: for some reason, that just really captured my imagination to think, oh, 74 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:23,800 Speaker 1: I may be part of an entirely different species. Right. 75 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: That was thrilling to me, And I didn't know that 76 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: they had developed the test, and I found out that 77 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 1: I am two point nine percent Neanderthal, which is greater 78 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: than the norm. The average is a two point seven percent. Okay, 79 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,039 Speaker 1: that's a significant difference. I mean, I can't tell you 80 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 1: how delighted I was to hear this, because your listeners 81 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: can't see me, but you can probably tell by the 82 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: way I speak in the timber of my voice that 83 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: I am not the most masculine of fellows. But I 84 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: was going to say, I mean, I mean, I'm tolerant, 85 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: but to a point. But just the popular image of 86 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: the Neanderthal as a lumbering brute, as this strong survivor 87 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,920 Speaker 1: out on the steps end planes just thrilled me to 88 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,799 Speaker 1: no end. And so I was delighted. And I told 89 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: my wife that I am above averagely Neanderthal, and she said, 90 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: that's why you look like that, and she did not 91 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: mean it as a compliment. And let me just say 92 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: that Martha is highly evolved. She's basically Darryl Hannah and 93 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:40,000 Speaker 1: Clanta the Cave Bear, a highly evolved, leggy blonde. Yes 94 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 1: she is, but wait, wait, hold on, When you describe 95 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 1: Neanderthals as masculine, lumbering brutes. You're making certain assumptions, and 96 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: we'll dispel some of these in this episode. For instance, 97 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 1: how do we know there weren't cultured, epicy Neanderthals? Well, 98 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: I think we do know now you are doing the research. 99 00:06:57,160 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 1: And I'm just speaking off the top of my head. 100 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: Now they were conness of fine wine, is my understanding. 101 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: They did puppet shows. Oh, Michael, We've got some work 102 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: to do. Think of me as your Henry Lewis Skates 103 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:11,120 Speaker 1: and this is finding your roots, or as your Lisa 104 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 1: Kudrow and this is who do you think you are? 105 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: I think that's her show. I want you to know 106 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:20,200 Speaker 1: that your Neanderthal ancestors were pretty darned special and not 107 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 1: as different from us normal people as you may think. 108 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: So how did they get such a bad rap? Let's 109 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:36,239 Speaker 1: find out. I grew up with so many classic TV 110 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: shows and films about Neanderthals and cavemen, and they pretty 111 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 1: much all got it wrong. In nineteen eighty one, there 112 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: was the aforementioned Quest for Fire. The characters basically just 113 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: plump through the whole movie, except when one of them 114 00:07:53,560 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 1: gets beamed in the head by a rock and then 115 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 1: everyone laughs. That same year, moviegoers were subjected to the 116 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: ringo star vehicle Caveman. During the course of the movie, 117 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: a bunch of bumbling cavemen discover fire, how to light 118 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: farts on fire, and jam bands and who could forget 119 00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: the mel Blanc voiced cartoon character. But as far as 120 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: portrayals of the primordial go the show that had the 121 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 1: biggest impact on me was Land of the Lost. The 122 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:46,439 Speaker 1: theme song told the story of the series. It's about 123 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: a family on a river rafting trip. During the ride, 124 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: they go down a magical waterfall and enter a universe 125 00:08:54,080 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: filled with dinosaurs and cave creatures. Hi, I'm Phil Paley 126 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:09,200 Speaker 1: and I played Chocca on the seventies show Land of 127 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: the Lost. You were only nine years old when he 128 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 1: got this role. Tell us about the character. Chaca was 129 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: the youngest of the pacoony clan. What do you think 130 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,080 Speaker 1: he is? Who kind of a came in a monkey 131 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: or what? Chaca? I wore a prosthetic headpiece, so it 132 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: had a very prominent brow and forehead, so it did 133 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,560 Speaker 1: kind of look neanderthal ish. I guess back when I 134 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: watched the show, I kind of assumed Chocca was a Neanderthal. 135 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: But looking back at the clips. Now he seems more 136 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 1: monkey boy free all over, except for his face. The 137 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,560 Speaker 1: suit was made out of like nylon pantyhose material with 138 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 1: a real human hair hand sewn into it, so it 139 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 1: made it kind of itchy. Luckily, there are some people 140 00:09:56,600 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 1: who know the difference between Saturday Morning science fiction and 141 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: real science. Anything that depicts Neanderthals as basically bad hair, 142 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: that's what I laugh about. Professor John Hawks from the 143 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 1: University of Wisconsin at o'claire is one of the world's 144 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: leading experts on Neanderthals. Why have Neanderthals had such a 145 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: bad reputation. The Neanderthals are a group that doesn't have 146 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 1: an advocacy. They don't have a lobby. You know, there's 147 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:32,839 Speaker 1: there's not Neanderthal representatives calling their congressman and so as 148 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: a consequence, if you thought something bad about the past, 149 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: you know, they were a convenient group because they weren't 150 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: going to complain. It's so easy to use Geico dot com. 151 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:48,439 Speaker 1: A caveman could do it. What not cool? I did 152 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: not know you were there. The Neanderthals in those Geico 153 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 1: commercials might be funny, but make no mistake, we're laughing 154 00:10:56,240 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 1: at them. So how did this stereotyping of Meanderthals as brutish, 155 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 1: howling and stupid get started? John Hawkes says it may 156 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: have begun with a nineteenth century German biologist named Ernst Heckel, 157 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 1: who attempted to map a genealogical tree of all living things. 158 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: When he came to early versions of us, he had 159 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: no fossils to study. It was pretty much just guesswork. 160 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: He chose a rather insulting classification. The name that he 161 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: had for the predecessor of humans that would be the 162 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:36,199 Speaker 1: Neanderthals basically was Homo stupidus. Yes, Homo stupidest. But it 163 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: was the French who really gave Neanderthals a bad name. 164 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: A nineteen oh eight, a nearly complete Neanderthal skeleton was 165 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 1: found in a cave in the town of La Chapelle. 166 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:52,239 Speaker 1: Ausan paleontologist Marcel Boule analyzed the remains of this individual 167 00:11:52,600 --> 00:11:58,200 Speaker 1: and made sweeping and hugely influential assumptions about the entire species. 168 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,559 Speaker 1: The image that came of his work was hairy and 169 00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: pretty ape like, with splayed toes and a slouching, hunched posture. 170 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,720 Speaker 1: Kate Wong is a writer for Scientific American and what 171 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: researchers later determined was that this was an older individual, 172 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: this Nandertal, who had suffered from severe arthritis. So all 173 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,040 Speaker 1: of the sort of features that led Bull to assume 174 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 1: that the species had these slouched, stooped traits were actually 175 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: the result of disease. That is really hilarious to me, 176 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: isn't it wild? And I've wondered about that before, Like, 177 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: when you find an individual species of something, what if 178 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: you're finding a weird member of that species and it 179 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: turns out that's exactly what happened with the Neanderthals. Totally 180 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: an agreement, fascinating and hilarious. But hold on, there's more. 181 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: The old Man of La Chapelle, as he came to 182 00:12:57,240 --> 00:13:01,640 Speaker 1: be known, became the public's picture of Neanderthals for generations. 183 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:06,040 Speaker 1: They were the arcotopical cave people, and that image unfold 184 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 1: she has stuck with the Neandertos over one hundred years later. 185 00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:13,000 Speaker 1: Professor Chris Stringer, the research leader at the Natural History 186 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: Museum in London, tells me part of the problem was 187 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,319 Speaker 1: that in the early twentieth century we didn't understand how 188 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: evolution worked. There was this rather simplistic idea that they 189 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: would be missing links to be found in the story 190 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:28,600 Speaker 1: of human evolution. And it was because we were so 191 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: fixated on the idea of a missing link that we 192 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: typecast Neanderthals into the role of a half ap half 193 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 1: human caveman duke. But thanks to the rapid advancement and 194 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: the study of archaic humans, the image of the Neanderthal 195 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 1: is finally changing. To be sure, Neanderthals were different from 196 00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: us in appearance. The pronounced brow ridge and sloping forehead 197 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: in those Geico commercials weren't tramped up by make up. 198 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 1: Our nests, so our brain case shape is rather globular, 199 00:14:03,640 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: sometimes described as like a soccer ball. The Neanderthal cranial 200 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,559 Speaker 1: shape was longer and lower. In fact, the Neanderthal brain 201 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 1: was bigger than ours, as was the Neanderthal schnaz. We 202 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: guessed that the whole nose would have been broader. They 203 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: certainly seem to have had a nose that was capable 204 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 1: of very very heavy breathing. It may also have served 205 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:30,400 Speaker 1: a function of warming up and humidifying the air when 206 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: they were living in relatively colder and drier conditions. They 207 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: were starkier too, with rib cages that flared out and 208 00:14:37,440 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: shorter limbs better for conserving heat. But recent studies on 209 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,960 Speaker 1: the Neanderthal thorax suggest that they might have walked even 210 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,280 Speaker 1: more upright than we do. As for what they sounded like, 211 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: Neanderthal voices might have been higher pitched than ours. Listen 212 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: to this simulation from the BBC. Let's just add a 213 00:14:56,760 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: bit of nasal, now push into me. This is actually 214 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: getting him right into his body. Now speak. No, that 215 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 1: isn't a monty python sketch. It's a serious demonstration. But 216 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 1: aside from the physical, what's really surprising is how on 217 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: par Neanderthals were with us cognitively and creatively. They made 218 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: a lot of the same kinds of tools they had fire, 219 00:15:27,280 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: They decorated their bodies with jewelry made from shells, eagle talons, 220 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: animal teeth, all sorts of fabulous accouterment. Some of these 221 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: discoveries of them using feathers systematically and collecting predominantly the 222 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: feathers of very dark black birds. We talk about it 223 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,920 Speaker 1: as Neanderthal goth because it seems like they preferred these 224 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: dark raptors and dark crows and ravens and that sort 225 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 1: of thing. Some signists speculate that Neanderthals saw power in 226 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: these dark birds and thought they'd be imbued with that 227 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: power if they wore those feathers. And if you're picturing 228 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,920 Speaker 1: share in Bob Backy at the nineteen eighty six Oscars, 229 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: I am too. And within just the past few years 230 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: researchers found the first ever Neanderthal cave paintings and etchings, 231 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 1: which reveal in early interest in social media. There's a 232 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: great place in Gorham's Cave in Gibraltar that has this 233 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: what we call the Neanderthal hashtag because it looks like 234 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: that pound sign that is scratched onto the floor of 235 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: the cave. What it means, what it meant to them, 236 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: we have no idea, but it shows us some sign 237 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: from the past that these were thinking beings. They were 238 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: conveying something through their use of markings, through their use 239 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: of ornaments, and that something was social. It was something 240 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,760 Speaker 1: about what they had to say to other individuals, what 241 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:11,680 Speaker 1: they had to communicate about themselves. And when it came 242 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: to hunting, Neanderthals were pretty crafty. To attach tips to 243 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 1: their spears, they made their own glue. In order to 244 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: do that, you have to take birch bark and smoke 245 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: it down, reduce it at high temperature so that the 246 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 1: sap inside of it condenses into this sticky pitch and 247 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: that in the end makes a very very tiny amount 248 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: of this. So you've got to do this many times 249 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: to concentrate it. Neanderthals managed that process. If I had 250 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: to assign an engineering class to figure out how this 251 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: was done, they would have a hard time of it. 252 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: All to say that Neanderthals weren't the least bit stupidest, 253 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: and neither was Choca. And the Pecuni had a language. 254 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: It was developed by a UCLA language professor by the 255 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: name of Victoria Frankin. After all these years, Philip Paley 256 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: can still say some phrases in Paku. Well, these are 257 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: classic ones. Bungu sarissa taka and that means beware of 258 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:21,840 Speaker 1: slee stack with an important warning very and uh. There's 259 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: also oh ganza bisasa what does that mean? Big magic? 260 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 1: I love? Who doesn't love big magic? And we're back 261 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,280 Speaker 1: with Michaele and Black talking about what it really means 262 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:45,600 Speaker 1: to be Meanderthal. But I mean they were capable of 263 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,679 Speaker 1: language that we we we learned that right right. I 264 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: thought you were just belching. No, No, I was just 265 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: grunting in the Neanderthal Neanderthal like way. Right. We should 266 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: have done that at the top of the episode. So 267 00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:59,760 Speaker 1: there are two different ways to do it. I like 268 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,360 Speaker 1: saying Meandrewthal. There are some people that will say Neandrew Tall. 269 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: So you are welcome. You can go back and forth. 270 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: You can switch over to neander Tall if you want. 271 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: I am now forevermore going to pronounce it Neander Tall. Okay, 272 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: so that's this scud. We're going to do a split 273 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: on this, and I'm going to stick with Neanderthal. You 274 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,960 Speaker 1: stick with me Andrew Tall, and then everybody will be satisfied. Yeah. 275 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:20,800 Speaker 1: Did you like Land of the Loss? I loved it. 276 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,600 Speaker 1: There were these sid and Marty Croft shows, and in 277 00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:29,439 Speaker 1: my memory, that was the only tolerable one, Right, I 278 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:31,719 Speaker 1: loved it. Yeah. I'm older than you are, so when 279 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: I watched it, I could tell it was pretty cheaply done. 280 00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: But I liked the opening credits. That's what I like, 281 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: because it just seemed really exciting. Yeah, to me, there 282 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: was nothing cheap about it. It was as real as well. 283 00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: Get rewatching a little bit of Captain Caveman that cartoon. 284 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 1: I remember that I was kind of attracted to Captain Caveman. 285 00:19:54,119 --> 00:19:57,680 Speaker 1: I there was something, maybe it was I don't know anyway, 286 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 1: And now when I go back and look at it, 287 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: I think it's kind of weird because he looks like 288 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,479 Speaker 1: a testicle basically. Well, then that explains your attraction. Thank you. 289 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: So so, Michael. Now that we've established that Neanderthals were 290 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: intelligent and surprisingly similar to modern humans, that raises the 291 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: question why did Neanderthals go extinct? Now there are various 292 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:27,720 Speaker 1: theories on this. First up, Professor Michael stab Vasser from 293 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: the University of Cologne in Germany. My speciality is a 294 00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: subject called isotope geochemistry. Oh, he's got my old position. 295 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:40,040 Speaker 1: That's what I did exactly. It is awkward for you. No, no, no, okay, 296 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,440 Speaker 1: I mean so I asked him what he actually does. 297 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: It's almost like you're a weatherman for the ancient times. Yes, 298 00:20:49,119 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 1: you could say that. Yes, he didn't really like that line, 299 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,399 Speaker 1: as he could tell anyway. He thinks it's climate change 300 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: that did in the Neanderthals. By studying stalagmites in caves, 301 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: he determined that during their last fifty thousand years on Earth, 302 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 1: the average temperature in the Danube Valley, one of the 303 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 1: places where Neanderthals lived, was much colder than it is now. 304 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: It was about thirty nine degrees fahrenheit. But and this 305 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: is crucial, during that period, there were these cold snaps 306 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,400 Speaker 1: that would ultimately seal their fate. They lasted something between 307 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: a century and a millennium on average. They usually led 308 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: to temperature drops which could be up to let's say, 309 00:21:28,840 --> 00:21:32,400 Speaker 1: six to eight degrees today. It may not sound drastic, 310 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,880 Speaker 1: but it makes the difference between being able to grow 311 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 1: crops or not, and if you can't eat, you're going 312 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 1: to die. And then as climate recovered, modern humans basically 313 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: resetted an empty area more or less. So he isn't 314 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: saying that modern humans were better adapted to these cold 315 00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: temperatures in the Neanderthals. I think the point he's making 316 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: is that the extinction of Neanderthals was pretty much bad timing, 317 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:03,520 Speaker 1: wrong place, wrong time. But they had existed for millennia 318 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: up until this point, and the average temperature as it's 319 00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: going down could have forced them south into warmer climates. 320 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,720 Speaker 1: But it seems like it didn't do that. I know, 321 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 1: I don't know why. This feels like a very dumb theory, 322 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 1: which is why we have another theory for you on 323 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 1: why Meanderthals died off. Okay, good, You remember Chris Stringer 324 00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: from the Natural History Museum in London. He thinks the 325 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: small population of Neanderthals was essentially swallowed up by modern humans. 326 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,679 Speaker 1: Some experts estimate that atops there were only about fifteen 327 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: nous in Neanderthals spread all across Eurasia. There just weren't 328 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: that many of them. The Neandersals were relatively low in numbers, 329 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 1: and I think that it probably wouldn't have taken much 330 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: to push them over the edge to extinction, and maybe 331 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: the appearance of modern humans as a competitor was sufficient 332 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 1: to do that. But of course that's just a guess. Yeah, well, 333 00:22:56,320 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: that just sounds like the most likely explanation. There was 334 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:06,160 Speaker 1: a sharknado of humans that came in and just wiped 335 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: him out. I mean, we have a habit of doing that. 336 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: That's kind of what we do. It's who we are. 337 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,760 Speaker 1: But who we are isn't who we used to think 338 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 1: we are. Doo doo doo, doo doo doo doo doo. 339 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: Of course, Neanderthals aren't really gone. They live in you 340 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 1: Michael and so many others. Let's find out what that 341 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 1: means today. What does it mean to have within our 342 00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 1: genetic code a certain percentage of Neanderthal DNA? I wanted 343 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 1: to find out, so I'm heading to New Jersey to 344 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 1: talk to one of the foremost experts in the field. 345 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,000 Speaker 1: My name is Josh Aki, and I'm a professor in 346 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: the Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology in the Lewis 347 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: Sigler Institute for integrif Genomics at Princeton University. And you 348 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: do that all in one breath. With twenty three and me, 349 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: we can discover where in the world your DNA comes from. 350 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:06,120 Speaker 1: An unforgettable gift my heritage DNA, What are your kid 351 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,800 Speaker 1: At ancestry dna dot com. I spoke to Professor Ak 352 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 1: about what these DNA kits can tell us. It's one 353 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 1: thing to find out that from one of these mail 354 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: order things that you're ten percent Irish, ten percent Mediterranean, 355 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,679 Speaker 1: you know, five percent African. But to find out that 356 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:29,119 Speaker 1: your two point five percent Meandrethal, that's a whole other 357 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: level of self discovery. We've always said that our genomes 358 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: are a mosaic of different ancestors, and I think what 359 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: we've learned more recently is it's a mosaic of both 360 00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: recent ancestors and very distantly related different types of human ancestors. 361 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: Before we could get to know what Neanderthal DNA looked like, 362 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:53,679 Speaker 1: we had to truly understand our own DNA. More than 363 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: a thousand researchers across six nations have revealed nearly all 364 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:01,240 Speaker 1: three billion letters of our miraculous a code. That was 365 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,960 Speaker 1: President Bill Clinton back in the year two thousand announcing 366 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 1: the first time the human genome was sequenced. Then in 367 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: two thousand and six, Swedish scientist Savante Papa and his 368 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:18,440 Speaker 1: team embarked upon sequencing the Neanderthal genome in a positively 369 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: Jurassic Parkian way. They were able to isolate ancient DNA 370 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: directly from a Neanderthal femur bone. So they drill into 371 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,640 Speaker 1: the longbone and loud to a whole bunch of cleanup 372 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: procedures to try to make sure that you're just getting 373 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: Neanderthal DNA hall from this femur bone. Amazing. Once we 374 00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 1: sequenced the Neanderthal genome, we were able to recognize that 375 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: we have what is called archaic DNA within our own genes. 376 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:55,000 Speaker 1: And this bombshell told us a lot about what Neanderthals 377 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,399 Speaker 1: and modern humans were doing with one another about forty 378 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:04,879 Speaker 1: to fifty thousand years ago. It's been interestingly one of 379 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 1: the most hotly contested issues in science for thirty years, 380 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:14,000 Speaker 1: with people arguing either there was admixture that happened between 381 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:18,000 Speaker 1: Neanderthals and modern humans or there wasn't. He's talking about sex, 382 00:26:18,640 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: and recent studies suggest that they add mixed a lot. Okay, 383 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,720 Speaker 1: So where did the modern humans in the Neanderthals end 384 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,439 Speaker 1: up hooking up? That's a great question and something we 385 00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 1: still don't know precisely. It seems to make most sense 386 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:36,959 Speaker 1: that the initial rounds of hybridization happened shortly after modern 387 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: humans dispersed out of Africa. So maybe in Asia, minor 388 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 1: like in Turkey, modern levront of like in Syria and Jordan. Yeah, okay, 389 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:47,439 Speaker 1: so it was a Middle Eastern that's where they got together. 390 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: That's yes. And I can't help but imagine it. I 391 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: mean in kind of a literal way. I mean, fifty 392 00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,719 Speaker 1: thousand years ago, modern humans coming out of Africa and 393 00:26:56,800 --> 00:26:59,920 Speaker 1: meeting a group of Neanderthals. Yeah, and what was that interaction? 394 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: Like what was the interaction with did the modern human 395 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:07,360 Speaker 1: guy walk over to the female neanderthal and were they 396 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: saying like, stop, no, don't do it, She's not our kind. 397 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,240 Speaker 1: There's so much we don't know, but we're learning more 398 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 1: every day thanks to Professor Aiki and his team. He 399 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: took me on a tour of their facility. So we're 400 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 1: going to go look at the experimental and computational space 401 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: in the Lewis Sigler Institute. You had to wear aaron 402 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: at um. No, we're not going to be baking, but 403 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: don't touch anything, okay. Mostly so these are my graduate 404 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: students pretending like they're working. This is all right, nice 405 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: to MITYA thesis project is on understanding how Neanderthal sequence 406 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: is distributed across the human genome. When you walk down 407 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: the street, do you ever sort of wonder the knee 408 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:04,200 Speaker 1: anderthal content of different people. I'm actually really good at 409 00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: picking that out just by looking at you. Yeah, how 410 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: much Neanderthal do you think is in me? Brush back 411 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,880 Speaker 1: your hair a little bit. I think you're about one percent. Okay, 412 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,680 Speaker 1: So my friend Michael Ian Black is two point nine 413 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 1: percent Neanderthal. He's an exceptional case. It's amazing had a picture. Wait, 414 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,880 Speaker 1: let me just show you a picture of it. Look 415 00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: at that to look at him, Yeah, I can definitely 416 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:33,959 Speaker 1: see yeah, because he's got a small chin, and Neanderthals 417 00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: are known for being relatively chinless, which is why I 418 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 1: think you're a lower because you have a nice, strong chin, 419 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: thank you. And he also has this sort of backward 420 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: sloping foreheads, which is also very um yeah, what we're 421 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: referred to as like archic. I don't feel like I 422 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:51,960 Speaker 1: have a very weak chin. I don't have a we 423 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: don't have a clapped to deskue chin. I've never felt 424 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: the need to beard myself. You objectively do not have 425 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,640 Speaker 1: a weak chin. But I do have a reverse sloping forehead. 426 00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: He was right about that. But Tode's Roger Stone and 427 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: he's gorgeous. All right, all right, one out of two. 428 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: Let's get back to the beast. After meeting with grad 429 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 1: student Aaron, Professor Age set the record straight. Just because 430 00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:20,680 Speaker 1: someone has a lot of Neanderthal DNA doesn't mean his 431 00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:25,600 Speaker 1: or her physical appearance will reflect this. One of the 432 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: dirty secrets still about genetics is that we are not 433 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 1: very good at interpreting DNA sequence variation. So if I 434 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,800 Speaker 1: look at my friend Michael and I see certain features 435 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 1: that may look like a rendering of a Neanderthal. That's 436 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: just a coincidence. It is most likely just a coincidence. 437 00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 1: Most like you're leaving a little bit of room there. 438 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,840 Speaker 1: We can never say things with a certainty and science 439 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: that's hysterical. All right, let's go downstairs because that's where 440 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: the fun toys are. This feels like the movie Coma, 441 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,959 Speaker 1: Remember Coma. This is an aluminum high twenty five hundred instruments. 442 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 1: So this is one of the class of next generation sequencers. 443 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: You don't have to have large, intact fragments of DNA. 444 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: You can sequence from the small degraded fragments that most 445 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: Neanderthal ancient DNA exists in because it degrades over time 446 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: and you can sequence a lot of it. Knowing what 447 00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: we do about Neanderthal DNA put the science fiction part 448 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:31,080 Speaker 1: of my brain in full geek out mode. In our lifetime, 449 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: will we be able to see, you know, kind of 450 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: a living, breathing Neanderthal that's created in a lab. The 451 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: technology to do so arguably exist today. You can have 452 00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,000 Speaker 1: like a version of Sturbridge Village or Williamsburg, Virginia, just 453 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: a town with all Neanderthals building tools and grunting at 454 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: each other. I think it will ultimately be decided that 455 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:55,520 Speaker 1: that's an unethical thing to do. Good, just because you 456 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: can do something doesn't mean you should do something. But 457 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:03,240 Speaker 1: what does that Neanderthal DNA mean for us today? According 458 00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,800 Speaker 1: to Professor Ake, one of the benefits modern humans got 459 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:11,160 Speaker 1: from mating with Neanderthals was it improved their immune systems. 460 00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 1: It was a very efficient way for our ancestors to 461 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: quickly adapt to these new conditions was to have sex 462 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,760 Speaker 1: with the neanderthal and just pick up a few beneficial 463 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: genes from the Anderthals. Great, okay, but you don't get 464 00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: the benefits just from the sacks off. Your kids will 465 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 1: get it. Yes, yeah, it's a persistent benefit. I almost 466 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: never get sick per neanderthal thing. Yes, almost never. I 467 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,920 Speaker 1: can't remember the last time I was sick. Wow, And 468 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: you have kids, have kids and the whole thing. I 469 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: never get the flu, I never get colds. I never 470 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 1: really get anything that is interesting. But wait, there's more 471 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: to the benefits of having Neanderthal DNA. There are a 472 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:50,320 Speaker 1: few genes that are clearly important in early formation of skin, 473 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: like keratin proteins, and Neanderthals had nice nails. Perhaps it 474 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: was nice nails or hair. My nails I think are fine. Yeah, 475 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:01,800 Speaker 1: I like your nils thinks I don't think me yet. 476 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: Your Neanderthal DNA does have some downsides. It may play 477 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,440 Speaker 1: a factor in depression, and it may have something to 478 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: do with chain smoking. It just so happens that this 479 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: sequence now influences your ability to stop smoking. Okay, never smoked. 480 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 1: It's a good thing you've never smoked, because you'd find 481 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: it harder to quit. I may just take up the 482 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: habit just to see if it's right. Right, just contest 483 00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: this proposition. One of the most mind blowing things the 484 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 1: field of archaic genomics has uncovered is that modern humans 485 00:32:35,880 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 1: and Neanderthals weren't the only people around thirty thousand years ago. 486 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:43,720 Speaker 1: Forty thousand years ago, we walked around the Earth, we'd 487 00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: find modern humans Neanderthals. Denisovans that if we went to 488 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: the island of Flores, we'd see the hobbit individuals. So 489 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:58,080 Speaker 1: there was hobbits, Homo florencias, so very small, diminutive archaic 490 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: human types. So the world was a much more interesting place. 491 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:07,160 Speaker 1: Fifty thousand years ago and today, the only remnants that 492 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: we see of these archaic forms of humans are the 493 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 1: scattered remains of their DNA and the genomes of modern individuals. 494 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:22,520 Speaker 1: I may not only have Neanderthal DNA. I may have Denisovan, Hobbit, 495 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,080 Speaker 1: or who knows what. So I decided to take a test. 496 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: Do you know one thing about myself? I wonder if 497 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:38,719 Speaker 1: my caveman ancestors were any better? Opening packages, a saliva 498 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: collection kept and all right, no food or drink for 499 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,480 Speaker 1: thirty minutes. So okay, spit to fill line. All right, 500 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,960 Speaker 1: Oh god, that's a lot of spit. Twenty minutes later, 501 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: my cup runneth over with saliva. I have to say 502 00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: this is bringing out a little bit of my competitive tendency. 503 00:34:00,680 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 1: I'm a little jealous that Michael is so neanderthal h 504 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,920 Speaker 1: and I don't know. We'll see time to see who's 505 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:15,279 Speaker 1: the neanderthalist of them all. And so I actually have 506 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: the result. I already looked, yet you haven't looked. I 507 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,280 Speaker 1: have not looked. So I as you heard, I spit 508 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 1: in an envelope and sent it in, and I'm gonna look. Now, 509 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 1: your DNA tells a story of who you are, and 510 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: how you're connected to populations, trace your heritage through the 511 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:36,439 Speaker 1: centuries and uncovered Cleo one hundred percent. What does that mean? Cleo? Yeah? 512 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,080 Speaker 1: What is Cleo? Gideon? Hey Mo, remember you were a 513 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: little nervous about using your real name. I use the 514 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,879 Speaker 1: name of my cat. Oh that's the name of Gideon's cat. 515 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:56,400 Speaker 1: Is Cleo. I'm one hundred percent Cleo? He was like, 516 00:34:56,480 --> 00:34:58,840 Speaker 1: So I thought maybe it meant, oh, you've got a 517 00:34:58,840 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: one hundred percent of a mark for some disease that's 518 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 1: going to kill you, the Cleo disease. Okay, all right, 519 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:10,439 Speaker 1: it's already says our ancestry composition. Your DNA suggests your 520 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 1: ancestry is forty point eight percent Iberian with ties to 521 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: five other populations. And I'm going to view report. Wow, 522 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:22,480 Speaker 1: some over forty percent Spanish, okay, which is kind of sexy. 523 00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: And did you know that? Well, my mother's Colombian. Okay, 524 00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:32,040 Speaker 1: so thirty point two percent Italian Italy. I'm point three 525 00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:38,040 Speaker 1: percent Ashkenazi Jewish? Are you yes? I It's interesting because 526 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:42,239 Speaker 1: a cab driver the other day, asset, are you Jewish? 527 00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:45,080 Speaker 1: Said to you, are you Jewish? Yeah? And now you 528 00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: can answer in the affirmative. Hell yes, I am yeah, 529 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 1: Hell yes, Okay, I'm three point five percent East Asian 530 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: and Native American. Oh that's what I was looking for. 531 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: Oh my god, I have it. Congrats, Thank you, God, 532 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: don't be jealous. Okay, two two point seven percent Native American, Columbia, 533 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:08,840 Speaker 1: Venezuela plus three more, Goobab, Brazil and Maica. That's great. 534 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:11,759 Speaker 1: I'm so excited. So where do I find my Neanderthal? 535 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,160 Speaker 1: It was on a separate tab as far as I recall. 536 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 1: So it looks like I have only only two hundred 537 00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: and thirty six Neanderthal variants, which puts me in the 538 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: bottom eleven percent in terms of Neanderthal content. Well, it 539 00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,560 Speaker 1: sounds like that researcher was right that you have less 540 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,160 Speaker 1: Neanderthal than the average person. If you have less than 541 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:38,320 Speaker 1: eighty nine percent of twenty three and ME customers, that 542 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:40,919 Speaker 1: suggests to me you don't have very much at all. Right, 543 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,880 Speaker 1: I guess that's what it means anyway. So okay, so 544 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,759 Speaker 1: we can conclude I have virtually no Neanderthal, hence our 545 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 1: different pronunciations of Neanderthal. Yes, but you do have a 546 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:57,240 Speaker 1: real smorgas board of all everything that I wanted, so 547 00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say it's a tie. I would say you're 548 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,520 Speaker 1: slightly ahead. And the genetic lottery, you said a Samargus board, 549 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,920 Speaker 1: but I have no Northern Europeans, so that's why we 550 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,080 Speaker 1: should what would be something more Payea, which I love 551 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: it so much. Well, Mike lean Black, I want to 552 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,840 Speaker 1: thank you, but you should really be thanking me because 553 00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,839 Speaker 1: this was about finding your roots since I'm basically zero 554 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,279 Speaker 1: present Neanderthal. Well, thank you. I mean I really feel 555 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,160 Speaker 1: like I learned a lot about myself, about my family. 556 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:34,719 Speaker 1: I now know more about you and simultaneously think less 557 00:37:34,760 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: of you because you are not of my species. But yeah, 558 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:45,000 Speaker 1: this was a blast. Before we close, a word from 559 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: the University of Wisconsin's John Hawks on his predecessors in 560 00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: Neanderthal research, those people whose early analysis set the stage 561 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:58,440 Speaker 1: for how Neanderthals were seen for so long. When we 562 00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: look at the scientific world of the Victorian era, you're 563 00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 1: looking at people who became aware of human variation around 564 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: the world, but they interpreted it in a very culturally 565 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,879 Speaker 1: insensitive way. You look at the past and think, oh 566 00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 1: my gosh, I can't believe that they said that. But 567 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,520 Speaker 1: that was the way that they approached their science. Today 568 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: we look at things totally differently, and when we look 569 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 1: at extinct human groups, they had their own ways of 570 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 1: living in the world. You have to appreciate they're not us, 571 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: but they lived at a time with incredible challenges and 572 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,040 Speaker 1: they overcame those challenges, and that is something really fundamentally 573 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 1: similar that we share with them today. We're all experts. 574 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:48,040 Speaker 1: I mean, we can just spit in an envelope and 575 00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: get all the answers right. Far from it. Let's all 576 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,359 Speaker 1: hope that science and technology will allow us one day 577 00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,440 Speaker 1: to understand why a species of humans is advanced as 578 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 1: the Neanderthals disappeared from the planet, so that maybe, just 579 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 1: maybe we don't disappear, at least not before our next 580 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: episode of Mobituaries featuring the incomparable Sammy Davis Junior. I 581 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:28,240 Speaker 1: certainly hope you enjoyed this episode and if you would, 582 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: please rate and review our podcast. You can also follow 583 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,120 Speaker 1: Mobituaries on Facebook and Instagram, and you can follow me 584 00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,919 Speaker 1: on Twitter at Morocca tell me how Neanderthal you are. 585 00:39:39,560 --> 00:39:42,840 Speaker 1: For more great content, please visit mobituaries dot com. You 586 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: can subscribe to Mobituaries wherever you get your podcasts. This 587 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,399 Speaker 1: episode of Mobituaries was produced by Gideon Evans. Our team 588 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,400 Speaker 1: of producers also includes Megan Marcus, Keith mccauliffe, Megan Dietree, 589 00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 1: and me Morocca. It was edited by David Fox and 590 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:07,680 Speaker 1: neared by Dan de Zula. Indispensable support from Justin Ader, Genius, Dineski, Kiera, Wardlow, 591 00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 1: Zach Gilcrest, the team at CBS News Radio, and Richard Rohrer. 592 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,879 Speaker 1: Our theme music is written by Daniel Hart. Special thanks 593 00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: du Gary Purdue, Ainara Sistiaga and London's Natural History Museum, 594 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 1: and has always undying thanks to Rand Morrison and John 595 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:37,200 Speaker 1: carp without whom Mobituaries couldn't live. Hi, It's mo. If 596 00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 1: you're enjoying Mobituaries the podcast, may I invite you to 597 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 1: check out Mobituaries the book. It's chock full of stories 598 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: not in the podcast. Celebrities who put their butts on 599 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,399 Speaker 1: the line, sports teams that threw in the towel for good, 600 00:40:52,719 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: forgotten fashions, defunct diagnoses, presidential candidacies that cratered, whole countries 601 00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:03,080 Speaker 1: that went caput. And dragons, Yes, dragons, you see. People 602 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:06,440 Speaker 1: used to believe the dragons will reel until just get 603 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,479 Speaker 1: the book. You can order Mobituaries the book from any 604 00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,319 Speaker 1: online bookseller, or stop by your local bookstore and look 605 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 1: for me when I come to your city. Tour information 606 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:21,960 Speaker 1: and lots more at mobituaries dot com