WEBVTT - SYMHC Classics: The Cod Wars

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<v Speaker 1>Happy Saturday, everybody. I am Tracy V. Wilson and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Holly Fry. An interesting headline caught my eye this week.

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<v Speaker 1>It was that the Icelandic Coastguard vessel a Year is

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<v Speaker 1>being sold after fifty years of service. It's being sold

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<v Speaker 1>because it has fallen into disuse over the last couple

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<v Speaker 1>of years. And this headline caught my eye not just

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<v Speaker 1>because I've been really, really nostalgic for a trip I

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<v Speaker 1>took to Iceland a few years back, but also because

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<v Speaker 1>this vessel played a major part in the Cod Wars,

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<v Speaker 1>which took place between Iceland and the UK. Our previous

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<v Speaker 1>episode on the Cod Wars came out on October and

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<v Speaker 1>this news gave us a good excuse to put it

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<v Speaker 1>right back into everybody's feeds. So enjoy. Welcome to Stuff

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<v Speaker 1>you missed in History Class. A production of I Heart

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<v Speaker 1>Radio Hello and Welcome to the Pod asked I'm Tracy B.

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<v Speaker 1>Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. When I was in Iceland

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<v Speaker 1>back in the spring, I learned a very tiny bit

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<v Speaker 1>about the Cod Wars. Uh. Long time listeners to the

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<v Speaker 1>show will probably notice some similarities between the thing that

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<v Speaker 1>we're going to talk about today and the Chesapeake Bay

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<v Speaker 1>Oyster Wars, which we talked about back in But while

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<v Speaker 1>the Chesapeake Bay conflict was mostly confined to the states

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<v Speaker 1>of Virginia and Maryland, the Cod Wars were an international

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<v Speaker 1>dispute that wound up having a lot more long lasting

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<v Speaker 1>ramifications in both the United Kingdom and in Iceland. So

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<v Speaker 1>after I got home from the Strip where I learned

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<v Speaker 1>that the Cod Wars had happened, I put them on

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<v Speaker 1>the potential episode list, and then all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 1>over the last week or so, multiple other people, sort

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<v Speaker 1>of apropos of nothing, said hey, would you talk about

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<v Speaker 1>the Cod Wars um and that included most recently Gemma

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<v Speaker 1>and Steve. So I thought, okay, I guess I'll put

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<v Speaker 1>cod Wars at the top of the list. Have been

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<v Speaker 1>kind of languishing there, and now we're gonna do it.

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<v Speaker 1>I do want to be clear that this is definitely

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<v Speaker 1>not the only fishing dispute that has ever happened in

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<v Speaker 1>these particular waters, but it's definitely one of the most famous.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh and in some ways it's the weirdest and the

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<v Speaker 1>most comical, even though it was not actually funny to

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<v Speaker 1>the people it was happening to like it sounds funny,

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<v Speaker 1>but a lot of people's livelihoods were deeply at stake

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<v Speaker 1>in the middle of this thing. That sounds sort of comedic.

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<v Speaker 1>So to give you the setup, Iceland and the United

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<v Speaker 1>Kingdom are two relatively small island nations. The UK is

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<v Speaker 1>a little more than nine thousand square miles and Iceland

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<v Speaker 1>is a little less than forty thousand square miles. That's

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<v Speaker 1>about two hundred forty three thousand square kilometers and one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred three thousand square kilometers respectively. The UK, however, has

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<v Speaker 1>much more habitable land than Iceland does. The middle of

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<v Speaker 1>ice Land is mountainous, and it's covered in glaciers and

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<v Speaker 1>also in many places volcanic, so nearly all of its

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<v Speaker 1>population lives relatively close to the coast. It is completely

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<v Speaker 1>unsurprising that two relatively small island nations, one of which

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<v Speaker 1>is only really habitable along the coastline, have historically relied

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<v Speaker 1>on fishing, both as an industry and for the nation's cuisine.

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<v Speaker 1>As we discussed in our podcast about the volcanic eruption

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<v Speaker 1>on the island of Hamming, fishing is critically important to

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<v Speaker 1>Iceland's economy today. The fishing industry and Iceland employees about

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<v Speaker 1>eleven thousand people, which is a little more than four

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<v Speaker 1>percent of Iceland's total workforce, and the fishing industry directly

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<v Speaker 1>contributes to about eleven percent of Iceland of the icelandic

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<v Speaker 1>GDP and indirectly a full quarter of Iceland's GDP. About

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<v Speaker 1>fort of Iceland's export earnings come from fish today, with

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<v Speaker 1>cod being a primary export, and before the nineteen seventies

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<v Speaker 1>almost of Iceland's exports were fish. Meanwhile, Britain's fishing industry

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<v Speaker 1>employs a little under twelve thousand fishers today, so about

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<v Speaker 1>the same size as Iceland's industry, but because the UK's

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<v Speaker 1>population and economy are so much larger, it's really a

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<v Speaker 1>much smaller proportion of the UK economy as a whole.

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<v Speaker 1>The UK has a population of sixty four million compared

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<v Speaker 1>to three hundred and twenty three thousand in Iceland. Marine

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<v Speaker 1>fishing is about zero point oh five percent of the

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<v Speaker 1>British GDP, and all forms of fishing together make up

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<v Speaker 1>about zero point zero seven percent of the British GDP.

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<v Speaker 1>Prior to the nineteen fifties, though fishing was a much

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<v Speaker 1>bigger part of the British economy, especially in fishing ports

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<v Speaker 1>cities like Hull, Gramsby and Fleetwood. In these ports, fishing

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<v Speaker 1>trawlers were the prime arey employer and most of the

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<v Speaker 1>fishing fleet that sailed from these ports did what's known

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<v Speaker 1>as distant water fishing, so boats would leave these ports

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<v Speaker 1>in Britain and they would travel hundreds of miles to

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<v Speaker 1>fish in the waters around Iceland. In addition to catching

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of cod, Britain eight and continues to eat,

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<v Speaker 1>for that matter, a lot of cod. In the nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>fifties and nineteen sixties, four d and thirty thousand tons

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<v Speaker 1>of cod were being eaten in Britain annually, overwhelmingly in

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<v Speaker 1>the form of fish and chips. Britain continues to eat

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<v Speaker 1>more cod than anywhere else in the world, a third

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<v Speaker 1>of the cod in the world, and of the cod

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<v Speaker 1>caught in European waters. So yeah, the Iceland and Britain

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<v Speaker 1>were united by the fact that there's lots of cod

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<v Speaker 1>around Iceland and Brittain was eating almost all of it,

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<v Speaker 1>almost all the cod because fish and chips, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's delicious and also kind of astounding just how

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<v Speaker 1>much was being eaten. Another important piece of background information,

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<v Speaker 1>and all of this story has to do with the

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<v Speaker 1>idea of international waters and how nations get to decide

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<v Speaker 1>which parts of the ocean are There's the idea that

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<v Speaker 1>a nation with the coastline has rights to a certain

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<v Speaker 1>amount of the ocean around it. Has existed for centuries,

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<v Speaker 1>and a nation's territorial waters extend a certain distance past

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<v Speaker 1>its coast and then beyond that our international waters. Starting

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<v Speaker 1>in the seventeen hundreds in Europe and the America's, a

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<v Speaker 1>nation's territorial waters typically extended about three miles past the coastline,

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<v Speaker 1>although there were definitely exceptions, with nations claiming more or less.

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<v Speaker 1>Prior to its independence in nineteen four, Iceland was a

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<v Speaker 1>part of Denmark, and according to the Anglo Danish Territorial

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<v Speaker 1>Waters Agreement, it, like so many other nations, followed that

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<v Speaker 1>three mile limit. That agreement was set to expire in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen fifty one, But when Iceland became independent from Denmark,

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<v Speaker 1>it got to work setting its own terms for where

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<v Speaker 1>other nations could fish immediately. Iceland had two primary motivations

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<v Speaker 1>for reevaluating its fishing boundaries. One was that fishing was

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<v Speaker 1>so enormously critical to its own economy that it wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to make sure its own fishing fleet had the greatest advantage.

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<v Speaker 1>Iceland sort of viewed this situation as a zero sum game.

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<v Speaker 1>Other nations that were taking fish out of the waters

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<v Speaker 1>around Iceland were taking them from Iceland because Iceland had

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<v Speaker 1>so few other industries or national or natural resources to

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<v Speaker 1>add to its economy. The other was that Iceland was

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<v Speaker 1>becoming increasingly concerned about the health of the fish stocks

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<v Speaker 1>around it and the threat of overfishing, so banning other

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<v Speaker 1>nations from fishing closer to its shores was a way

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<v Speaker 1>to try to keep Icelandic fishers fishing while ideal lowering

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<v Speaker 1>the risk of depleting those fish populations. As a result,

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<v Speaker 1>on May fifteenth, nineteen fifty two, Iceland extended the line

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<v Speaker 1>from three miles to four And this wasn't the first

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<v Speaker 1>push of its territorial water since becoming independent, but it

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<v Speaker 1>was the first extension that affected a part of the

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<v Speaker 1>sea that Britain had been using for its fishing. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>some of the prior extension was more to the north,

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<v Speaker 1>which was not as much of a British fishing ground.

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<v Speaker 1>Britain was not happy about this change. There was more

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<v Speaker 1>shelter available in bad weather three miles out compared to

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<v Speaker 1>four miles out. And then, of course there was just

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<v Speaker 1>the principle of the thing. Britain's who had been making

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<v Speaker 1>their livelihoods through fishing for generations and who lived in

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<v Speaker 1>port cities where fishing was the biggest industry were basically

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<v Speaker 1>being shut out of a strip of the sea that

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<v Speaker 1>they'd historically had access to. When Iceland said its new

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<v Speaker 1>line at four miles, flags flew at half mast in

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<v Speaker 1>British distant water fishing ports. The Grimsby Evening Telegraph called

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<v Speaker 1>it black Thursday. In spite of this new law, the

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<v Speaker 1>four mile zone around Iceland did not make that big

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<v Speaker 1>of a difference to British distant distant water fishing boats.

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<v Speaker 1>A lot of them had already been crossing the three

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<v Speaker 1>mile line when fish were scarce beyond it. A number

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<v Speaker 1>of captains and owners also thought that the fine that

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<v Speaker 1>came with crossing that four mile line was worth the

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<v Speaker 1>risk if it meant better fishing on the other side

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<v Speaker 1>of the line. All in all, even though there was

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of cat and mouse darting around the line,

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<v Speaker 1>British captains and crews surrendered when they realized they were

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<v Speaker 1>caught in ICELANDIC Coastguard personnel were always honest and faring

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<v Speaker 1>court cases over illegal fishing. Aside from some tomfoolery, people

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<v Speaker 1>on both sides of this dispute were generally respectful and

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<v Speaker 1>professional about it. Yeah, and in spite of all the

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<v Speaker 1>like the flying the flags that half mast and the

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<v Speaker 1>s ring back and forth across the line where people

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<v Speaker 1>weren't really supposed to be like, you know, when the

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<v Speaker 1>coast Guard showed up and was like, you're not supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to be here, they would have been like, yeah, you're

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<v Speaker 1>you gottess. The UK also took the very reasonable course

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<v Speaker 1>of action of taking their dispute with Iceland before the

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<v Speaker 1>International Court of Justice. When Iceland's four mile limit was upheld,

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<v Speaker 1>Britain responded by banning Icelandic fishing vessels from landing their

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<v Speaker 1>fish in Britain. Since Britain, as we said earlier, was

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<v Speaker 1>buying most of Iceland's cod, and I mean British British

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<v Speaker 1>cod catches were not nearly enough to keep the nation

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<v Speaker 1>supplied in fish and chips. This basically was an economic

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<v Speaker 1>sanction sanction against Iceland, but Iceland did not back down

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<v Speaker 1>and this was only the first of several times that

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<v Speaker 1>Iceland would move its fishing boundary, and we're going to

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<v Speaker 1>talk about where things stopped being so sort of cordial

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<v Speaker 1>and respectful and started to really get ugly. After we

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<v Speaker 1>have a brief sponsor break. In ninety eight, the international

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<v Speaker 1>community participated in the first International Conference on the Law

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<v Speaker 1>of the Sea. The u n's International Law Commission had

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<v Speaker 1>been discussing and evaluating maritime international law for nearly a decade,

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<v Speaker 1>but this was the first conference that was specifically devoted

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<v Speaker 1>to international maritime law. Eighties six states participated in this conference. Fishing,

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<v Speaker 1>we should point out, was certainly not the only thing

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<v Speaker 1>being discussed at the conference. Resolutions were adopted regarding nuclear tests,

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<v Speaker 1>radioactive pollution of the oceans, and conservation, and various smaller

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<v Speaker 1>nations suggested a major expansion of the commonly used three

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<v Speaker 1>mile limit between international and territorial waters. The new proposed

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<v Speaker 1>limit a twelve mile economic exclusion zone around a nation's coast.

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<v Speaker 1>Most larger nations resisted this idea for reasons ranging from

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<v Speaker 1>economic unfairness to concerns that their navies could not effectively

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<v Speaker 1>maneuver or patrol with that much of the sea off limits. However,

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<v Speaker 1>when Iceland then expanded its exclusionary zone to twelve miles,

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<v Speaker 1>and part of its argument was that that twelve miles

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<v Speaker 1>was eventually going to be international law anyway. And while

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<v Speaker 1>that previous move from three miles to four miles had

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<v Speaker 1>been met with flags at half masted in Britain's port towns,

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<v Speaker 1>the jump to twelve miles was genuinely alarming. The zone

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<v Speaker 1>between four and twelve miles from Iceland's coast was prime

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<v Speaker 1>fishing territory for Britain's distant water fishing fleet. Shutting Britain

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<v Speaker 1>out of twelve miles around Iceland had the potential to

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<v Speaker 1>completely disrupt the fishing industry. Aside from really genuine win

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<v Speaker 1>concerns about the British economy, especially in these sports cities,

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<v Speaker 1>Britain was also really frustrated on principle. I understand this.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a person who gets colossally frustrated on principle, as

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<v Speaker 1>had been the case with that four mile line. The

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<v Speaker 1>twelve mile line was cutting Brittain out of waters that

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<v Speaker 1>it had historically had access to and felt entitled to.

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<v Speaker 1>And then there was an emotional way to all of it,

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<v Speaker 1>and the cities that were home to Britain's distant water

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<v Speaker 1>fishing fleets. Fishing was really at the heart of the

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<v Speaker 1>community and of people's identities. So pushing out distant water

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<v Speaker 1>fishing felt like it was stripping people of their way

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<v Speaker 1>of life and of something that they felt like was

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<v Speaker 1>a core part of who they were. Also, there's the

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<v Speaker 1>whole fish and chip thing again, which is also part

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<v Speaker 1>of like the identity issue. Yes, Like in the United States,

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<v Speaker 1>fish and chips and a lot of places they're just

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<v Speaker 1>like they're just sort of stand pub food, right, But

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<v Speaker 1>in the fifties and sixties and Britain, fish and chips

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<v Speaker 1>was really a working class staple, and like chippies were

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<v Speaker 1>places that that sold fish and chips, and like there's

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<v Speaker 1>a whole cultural layer to the existence in the consumption

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<v Speaker 1>of of fish and chips that um does not have

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<v Speaker 1>the quite the same weight. And most of the United States,

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<v Speaker 1>yeah uh, And the UK was not the only nation

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<v Speaker 1>affected by this expansion in Iceland's territorial waters. Belgium, West

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<v Speaker 1>Germany and the Faroe Islands were among the other nations

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<v Speaker 1>fishing in that same area, But it was the British

0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:45.200
<v Speaker 1>fishing fleet that was making the most use of it

0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:48.440
<v Speaker 1>among the international community, and it was Britain that became

0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:51.880
<v Speaker 1>the most vocal in wanting continued access to that four

0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:56.440
<v Speaker 1>to twelve mile zone. Those cat and mouse shenanigans that

0:14:56.480 --> 0:14:59.960
<v Speaker 1>had happened at the four mile line kicked up several

0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:04.080
<v Speaker 1>role notches in the four to twelve mile zone around Iceland.

0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.640
<v Speaker 1>As one might expect, Iceland deployed its Coastguard to try

0:15:08.640 --> 0:15:12.600
<v Speaker 1>to enforce the policy, and it allowed officials to board

0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:16.080
<v Speaker 1>British ships and arrest their crews for fishing in waters

0:15:16.080 --> 0:15:20.120
<v Speaker 1>where they were not supposed to be. In response, Britain

0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.840
<v Speaker 1>deployed ships from the Royal Navy to protect the trawlers,

0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:27.440
<v Speaker 1>essentially mandating that the trawlers fishing areas where the Royal

0:15:27.520 --> 0:15:31.120
<v Speaker 1>Navy was patrolling, and the trawlers used nets to try

0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:34.400
<v Speaker 1>to keep Icelandic inspectors from boarding, as well as springing

0:15:34.440 --> 0:15:38.280
<v Speaker 1>boarding parties with hoses and trying to use spears to

0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:42.920
<v Speaker 1>puncture the rubber dighis the Coastguard used for boarding. When

0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.920
<v Speaker 1>a trawler was boarded, they'd often call in the Royal

0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:49.160
<v Speaker 1>Navy to assist, and on at least one occasion, the

0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:52.400
<v Speaker 1>Royal Navy then refused to let the Icelandic Coast Guard

0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:56.680
<v Speaker 1>officials go back to their own vessel, instead kept them

0:15:56.720 --> 0:16:00.760
<v Speaker 1>on board as guests in quotation marks of the Crown.

0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.200
<v Speaker 1>One boarding party was eventually put into a little boat

0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:06.480
<v Speaker 1>off the coast of keef Levik and allowed to row

0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.880
<v Speaker 1>back to shore there. And that's really irritated the people

0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.520
<v Speaker 1>that were, uh, we're working at the NATO base in

0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:15.680
<v Speaker 1>kef Levik, because they were like, what do you mean

0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:19.040
<v Speaker 1>there is a British warship right there that just dropped

0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:23.800
<v Speaker 1>you off in the water. Because Iceland had about six

0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:27.000
<v Speaker 1>gun boats compared to the thirty seven Royal Navy ships

0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:31.040
<v Speaker 1>that Britain had deployed, Iceland didn't really feel comfortable making

0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:35.080
<v Speaker 1>a direct assault on the British force. Instead, Iceland kept

0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.240
<v Speaker 1>thorough records of the names and numbers of all of

0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:41.080
<v Speaker 1>the British ships that broke the twelve mile limit. I

0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.640
<v Speaker 1>kind of love fighting it with bureaucracy and I don't

0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:50.280
<v Speaker 1>even understand why. Yeah, yeah, this distribute wound up being

0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:54.760
<v Speaker 1>settled with a compromise in nineteen sixty one. Britain ultimately

0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.120
<v Speaker 1>agreed to respect the twelve mile limit and exchange for

0:16:58.160 --> 0:17:01.080
<v Speaker 1>a three year period to phase out the distant water

0:17:01.240 --> 0:17:04.959
<v Speaker 1>fishing in the twelve mile zone. Once this agreement was reached,

0:17:05.240 --> 0:17:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Iceland destroyed all those records of who all had been

0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.879
<v Speaker 1>illegally fishing in the twelve mile zone, which I also

0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:15.159
<v Speaker 1>am kind of charmed by. Yes, it's like this is

0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.639
<v Speaker 1>going on your permanent record. Okay, now we're cool. We

0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:22.640
<v Speaker 1>could get rid of that permanent record. Uh. In the agreement,

0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:26.240
<v Speaker 1>Iceland also acknowledged that it would continue to consider extending

0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:29.760
<v Speaker 1>the border even further, but would give Britain advanced notice

0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:33.520
<v Speaker 1>if this were to happen. Quote, the Icelandic Government will

0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:36.280
<v Speaker 1>continue to work for the implementation of the al Thing

0:17:36.359 --> 0:17:40.760
<v Speaker 1>Resolution of five May nineteen fifty nine regarding the extension

0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.560
<v Speaker 1>of fisheries jurisdiction around Iceland, but shall give to the

0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:48.800
<v Speaker 1>United Kingdom Government six months notice of such extension, and

0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:52.000
<v Speaker 1>in case of a dispute in relation to such extension,

0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.399
<v Speaker 1>the matter shall, at the request of either party, be

0:17:55.520 --> 0:18:00.000
<v Speaker 1>referred to the International Court of Justice. Yes, those based

0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:03.480
<v Speaker 1>referring to a resolution that had been put out a

0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:06.600
<v Speaker 1>couple of years before about possibly having an even bigger

0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:10.640
<v Speaker 1>exclusion zone. And then on July fourteenth of nineteen seventy one,

0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.320
<v Speaker 1>the government of Iceland released a new policy statement which said,

0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:17.560
<v Speaker 1>quote the fisheries agreements with the United Kingdom and the

0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:21.639
<v Speaker 1>Federal German Republic I'll be terminated and a resolution be

0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:25.360
<v Speaker 1>made about an extension of fishery limit up to fifty

0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:29.240
<v Speaker 1>nautical miles from the baselines, effective not later than one

0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.800
<v Speaker 1>September ninety two. So at this point we've gone from

0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:37.400
<v Speaker 1>three miles to four miles, to twelve miles to fifty miles. Yeah,

0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:39.760
<v Speaker 1>it's a big jump. I can imagine if you are

0:18:39.840 --> 0:18:44.080
<v Speaker 1>part of the fishing industry, the knee jerk reaction could

0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.480
<v Speaker 1>be irate at that point. Uh, And that would explain

0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:50.159
<v Speaker 1>why this is where things got really really heated between

0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:53.480
<v Speaker 1>the UK and Iceland. The United Kingdom once again took

0:18:53.520 --> 0:18:56.520
<v Speaker 1>its dispute to the International Court of Justice in the Hague,

0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:00.040
<v Speaker 1>which found in Britain's favor, but Iceland argued that the

0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:04.800
<v Speaker 1>court did not have jurisdiction. Iceland was at this point

0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:09.280
<v Speaker 1>incredibly frustrated and alarmed over the condition of its fishing stocks.

0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:14.439
<v Speaker 1>Stocks of the icelandic herring had dropped precipitously almost to nothing,

0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.760
<v Speaker 1>and Iceland was concerned that cod were headed for this

0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:22.600
<v Speaker 1>same fate. They had made repeated calls for international discussions

0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:26.320
<v Speaker 1>on conservation of fish stocks and sustainable fishing practices, and

0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.080
<v Speaker 1>none of that had gotten enough attention for Iceland to

0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:33.120
<v Speaker 1>really feel secure in the future of of a nation

0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:36.520
<v Speaker 1>that was basically dependent on fishing. Like at this point

0:19:36.640 --> 0:19:39.000
<v Speaker 1>and even still today in a lot of ways, if

0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:42.600
<v Speaker 1>the if the fishing industry in Iceland is gone, Iceland

0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:46.040
<v Speaker 1>as a nation cannot survive. And so even though there

0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:48.760
<v Speaker 1>were some nations that were willing to talk about more

0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:53.639
<v Speaker 1>conservation oriented fishing practices at this point in the seventies,

0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:56.760
<v Speaker 1>Iceland was like, no, really, we will die as a

0:19:56.840 --> 0:19:59.840
<v Speaker 1>nation if we don't look after these fish. And to

0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:02.879
<v Speaker 1>make matters worse from the British point of view, also

0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:06.680
<v Speaker 1>in ninety two, the United Kingdom joined the Common Market,

0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:09.960
<v Speaker 1>and this was basically an approach by the European Economic

0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Community that gave all its members equal access to the

0:20:12.880 --> 0:20:17.840
<v Speaker 1>territorial waters of all the other members after a grace period. Iceland,

0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:21.159
<v Speaker 1>not being a member of the European Economic Community, was

0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:24.199
<v Speaker 1>not affected, but the UK was concerned about what it

0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:26.439
<v Speaker 1>would mean for its own fishing industry to give the

0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:30.320
<v Speaker 1>rest of the European economic community access to its fishing

0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:34.520
<v Speaker 1>grounds the UK, to the UK fishing fleet, those waters

0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:39.719
<v Speaker 1>off the coast of Iceland became even more important. So

0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:43.040
<v Speaker 1>the UK once again deployed the Royal Navy to protect

0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:46.879
<v Speaker 1>its distant water trawlers. And during the previous dispute, the

0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.719
<v Speaker 1>trawlers were basically supposed to stick with the navy, and

0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:51.960
<v Speaker 1>now they were trying to do it the other way around.

0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:54.640
<v Speaker 1>The trawlers would go whether where they needed to fish,

0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:58.399
<v Speaker 1>and the Navy would follow them to protect them. In

0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:02.119
<v Speaker 1>other words, the UK had decided not to respect that

0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:04.760
<v Speaker 1>fifty mile line, and we're going to talk about the

0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:07.600
<v Speaker 1>fallout from that a little bit more after we once

0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:24.960
<v Speaker 1>again paused for a word from a sponsor. The first

0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:28.119
<v Speaker 1>day that British ships made their way across the newly

0:21:28.240 --> 0:21:31.919
<v Speaker 1>established fifty mile line around Iceland, they covered up their

0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:35.840
<v Speaker 1>names and numbers on their ships and hoisted pirate flags.

0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:40.480
<v Speaker 1>Iceland's coast Guard was mostly amused at this course of action,

0:21:40.880 --> 0:21:43.480
<v Speaker 1>because at this point they had been patrolling these waters

0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:46.760
<v Speaker 1>with these British trawlers for years, and they were sort

0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:49.160
<v Speaker 1>of like, do you think we really can't recognize your ship?

0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:51.280
<v Speaker 1>Without the name on it, like, we know what your

0:21:51.280 --> 0:21:54.119
<v Speaker 1>ship looks like, we know who you are. It's the

0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:58.200
<v Speaker 1>clark can't Glasses disguise of the sea. It was absolutely

0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.840
<v Speaker 1>the Clark can't glasses to sect the guys of the sea.

0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:06.159
<v Speaker 1>And this time around things really did start though, as

0:22:06.240 --> 0:22:09.159
<v Speaker 1>much as we're laughing now, they became very serious and

0:22:09.240 --> 0:22:12.520
<v Speaker 1>physical between Iceland and the UK. Towards the end of

0:22:12.520 --> 0:22:16.080
<v Speaker 1>the previous dispute, Iceland had developed a trawling net cutter,

0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:20.080
<v Speaker 1>and this was essentially a minesweeper modified with a road

0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:23.119
<v Speaker 1>grading blade that was dragged through the water behind a

0:22:23.200 --> 0:22:26.560
<v Speaker 1>boat so when it hit the high tension trawling wires,

0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.960
<v Speaker 1>it would cut right through them. This was the part

0:22:30.040 --> 0:22:32.520
<v Speaker 1>I learned at a museum in Iceland where I was like, oh,

0:22:33.240 --> 0:22:36.920
<v Speaker 1>the Icelandic Coast Guard was just cutting through trawling nuts.

0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:42.600
<v Speaker 1>That's fascinating. However, the cruise of the British trawlers were

0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:47.080
<v Speaker 1>horrified and alarmed at this invention. The wires of these

0:22:47.080 --> 0:22:50.080
<v Speaker 1>trawling nuts, I mean, these are enormous nets that are

0:22:50.160 --> 0:22:52.280
<v Speaker 1>under the water and they fill up with fish. They

0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:55.720
<v Speaker 1>are under a whole lot of tension. So it was

0:22:55.800 --> 0:22:59.080
<v Speaker 1>within the realm of possibility that a wire that had

0:22:59.119 --> 0:23:02.720
<v Speaker 1>been cut could re bound and literally cut someone in half.

0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Iceland insisted that this cutting was happening far enough below

0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:10.119
<v Speaker 1>the surface of the water that this was not a risk,

0:23:10.200 --> 0:23:12.840
<v Speaker 1>and there wasn't a risk to human life because all

0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:15.600
<v Speaker 1>of this energy that was being dissipated when the wire

0:23:15.680 --> 0:23:19.600
<v Speaker 1>was cut basically was was dissipated in the traveling through

0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:24.520
<v Speaker 1>the water. Um Even so, even if if there wasn't

0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:26.800
<v Speaker 1>a risk, and I think you can argue that either way,

0:23:27.160 --> 0:23:30.359
<v Speaker 1>the loss of the trawling net itself, and of the

0:23:30.400 --> 0:23:33.600
<v Speaker 1>time and energy that you had put into putting it

0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:36.560
<v Speaker 1>together and deploying it, and whatever time you had spent

0:23:36.600 --> 0:23:40.520
<v Speaker 1>fishing with it basically meant that people were losing a

0:23:40.560 --> 0:23:46.000
<v Speaker 1>lot of work and equipment in this process. The Icelandic

0:23:46.080 --> 0:23:50.960
<v Speaker 1>Coastguard was vastly outnumbered. It had six Coastguard vessels plus

0:23:51.000 --> 0:23:55.119
<v Speaker 1>two Polish built trawlers retrofitted for the purpose. Britain, on

0:23:55.160 --> 0:23:57.479
<v Speaker 1>the other hand, had a total of twenty nine ships

0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:00.359
<v Speaker 1>earmarked for the purpose, was six to nine of them

0:24:00.400 --> 0:24:04.280
<v Speaker 1>in Icelandic water at any given time. In addition to

0:24:04.320 --> 0:24:07.920
<v Speaker 1>those frigates were seven supply ships, nine tug boats and

0:24:08.119 --> 0:24:13.760
<v Speaker 1>three artillery ships to protect its forty trawlers. Soon, in

0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:19.760
<v Speaker 1>spite of being so heavily outnumbered, Icelandic vessels started intentionally

0:24:20.040 --> 0:24:24.080
<v Speaker 1>ramming British Royal Navy ships and trawlers. This actually there

0:24:24.160 --> 0:24:26.639
<v Speaker 1>was one collision that did lead to the death of

0:24:26.680 --> 0:24:31.400
<v Speaker 1>an Icelandic officer. Britain responded by trying to update its

0:24:31.400 --> 0:24:35.280
<v Speaker 1>trawler fleet by radio about the positions of Iceland's vessels,

0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:40.199
<v Speaker 1>So the Icelandic Coastguards started recording Britain's transmissions on the

0:24:40.240 --> 0:24:43.480
<v Speaker 1>positions of where the Icelandic vessels were and then replaying

0:24:43.560 --> 0:24:47.360
<v Speaker 1>them at a later date to so confusion. When Britain

0:24:47.400 --> 0:24:50.159
<v Speaker 1>realized that that was happening, their ships began to spread

0:24:50.160 --> 0:24:53.760
<v Speaker 1>the word by radio to disregard the prior message, so

0:24:53.800 --> 0:24:57.159
<v Speaker 1>the Icelandic Coast Guard recorded that too to replay it

0:24:57.280 --> 0:25:01.920
<v Speaker 1>later on. It's a a ghost arms at that point

0:25:01.920 --> 0:25:06.879
<v Speaker 1>where they're doing like these false sounds. Escapes May nine

0:25:07.200 --> 0:25:12.080
<v Speaker 1>seventy three and Icelandic ship shelled a British trawler. Also

0:25:12.160 --> 0:25:15.600
<v Speaker 1>in May, Iceland banned British planes from landing at Keflavik

0:25:15.680 --> 0:25:20.200
<v Speaker 1>Air Base. That October, the UK and Iceland finally agreed

0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:23.320
<v Speaker 1>to limit the number of British ships in icelandic waters,

0:25:23.800 --> 0:25:28.280
<v Speaker 1>limit the size of the catch, and thankfully stop ramming

0:25:28.280 --> 0:25:32.359
<v Speaker 1>each other. So this is kind of an uneasy piece

0:25:32.440 --> 0:25:35.080
<v Speaker 1>that lasted for a couple of years. But in nineteen

0:25:35.119 --> 0:25:39.960
<v Speaker 1>seventy five, Iceland extended its maritime border again to two

0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:44.920
<v Speaker 1>hundred miles, so now we've gone three four twelve fifty

0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:50.880
<v Speaker 1>two hundred. Once again, Britain refused to to respect yet

0:25:50.920 --> 0:25:56.320
<v Speaker 1>another expansion in the exclusionary zone around Iceland. Negotiating negotiations

0:25:56.359 --> 0:26:00.480
<v Speaker 1>really quickly broke down. Iceland threatened to close the NATO

0:26:00.520 --> 0:26:05.040
<v Speaker 1>Basic Kevlovik entirely and to end diplomatic relations with Britain.

0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:09.719
<v Speaker 1>The international community became really alarmed. All of these conflicts

0:26:09.720 --> 0:26:12.200
<v Speaker 1>were running parallel to the Cold War, and there were

0:26:12.240 --> 0:26:15.679
<v Speaker 1>some concerns that Iceland, which was strategically placed between Russia

0:26:15.720 --> 0:26:19.000
<v Speaker 1>and North America, might, under all of this pressure and

0:26:19.040 --> 0:26:23.159
<v Speaker 1>resistance from Britain, just abandoned its other diplomatic ties in

0:26:23.240 --> 0:26:28.960
<v Speaker 1>favor of allying with Russia. Eventually, after numerous rammings and

0:26:29.080 --> 0:26:32.200
<v Speaker 1>even some shelling caused damage to ships on both sides

0:26:32.200 --> 0:26:36.159
<v Speaker 1>of the conflict, the Secretary General of NATO doctor Joseph

0:26:36.280 --> 0:26:39.960
<v Speaker 1>Lunz had to mediate an agreement between Iceland and the UK,

0:26:40.760 --> 0:26:44.159
<v Speaker 1>and that was signed in June of ninety six. It

0:26:44.400 --> 0:26:48.240
<v Speaker 1>upheld Iceland's two hundred mile exclusion zone and it specified

0:26:48.280 --> 0:26:51.600
<v Speaker 1>that Britain could have a maximum of twenty four trawlers

0:26:51.720 --> 0:26:55.440
<v Speaker 1>in that zone at any given time. Conservation zones were

0:26:55.520 --> 0:26:59.240
<v Speaker 1>established where no fishing would be allowed. After six months,

0:26:59.280 --> 0:27:01.680
<v Speaker 1>there would be no more fishing in the two hundred

0:27:01.760 --> 0:27:05.200
<v Speaker 1>mile zone. When those six months were up, Britain's distant

0:27:05.200 --> 0:27:08.680
<v Speaker 1>water fishing fleet was effectively put out of business. Trawler

0:27:08.760 --> 0:27:12.040
<v Speaker 1>owners were given some restitution for the loss of their businesses,

0:27:12.480 --> 0:27:16.000
<v Speaker 1>and the government had reassured the distant water fishing industry

0:27:16.040 --> 0:27:19.560
<v Speaker 1>to expect retraining for other work as well as compensation

0:27:19.640 --> 0:27:23.600
<v Speaker 1>for basically having been made redundant. However, that support did

0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:28.960
<v Speaker 1>not actually materialize in Britain's Fishermen's Association was formed to

0:27:29.000 --> 0:27:31.720
<v Speaker 1>start fighting for compensation, and this was a battle that

0:27:31.800 --> 0:27:35.400
<v Speaker 1>went on until July of two thousand, when a settlement

0:27:35.400 --> 0:27:38.960
<v Speaker 1>of twenty six billion pounds was was earmarked for people

0:27:39.000 --> 0:27:41.760
<v Speaker 1>who had been put out of work. As a consequence

0:27:41.760 --> 0:27:47.800
<v Speaker 1>of this international agreement, fish stocks began to be depleted anyway,

0:27:47.840 --> 0:27:51.720
<v Speaker 1>with Iceland needing to send boats farther afield, which turned

0:27:51.720 --> 0:27:56.840
<v Speaker 1>into conflict with other nations as well, particularly Russia and Norway. Yeah,

0:27:56.840 --> 0:27:59.400
<v Speaker 1>there's stocks have rebounded a lot now, but if if

0:27:59.440 --> 0:28:03.399
<v Speaker 1>you look at sharts of the fish populations around Iceland,

0:28:04.000 --> 0:28:07.000
<v Speaker 1>there's like a decline over the sixties and then a

0:28:07.000 --> 0:28:11.120
<v Speaker 1>cliff and then they are very alarmingly low and then

0:28:11.160 --> 0:28:14.600
<v Speaker 1>they start to recover. Uh. There's also a documentary. It

0:28:14.680 --> 0:28:17.919
<v Speaker 1>was actually an Icelandic documentary, but it aired on the BBC,

0:28:18.320 --> 0:28:20.639
<v Speaker 1>and one of the Icelandic officials that was interviewed for

0:28:20.720 --> 0:28:23.800
<v Speaker 1>it talked about going to Britain visiting some of these

0:28:23.880 --> 0:28:26.800
<v Speaker 1>ports that had been the distant water fishing ports, seeing

0:28:26.880 --> 0:28:30.600
<v Speaker 1>all of these decommissioned ships just sort of derelict there

0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:35.280
<v Speaker 1>in the port, and it reconfirming for him. Okay, seriously,

0:28:35.320 --> 0:28:37.320
<v Speaker 1>we have got to we have got to conserve our

0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:39.640
<v Speaker 1>fishing stocks because as a result of our trying to

0:28:39.680 --> 0:28:42.160
<v Speaker 1>do that, all of these people were put out of

0:28:42.160 --> 0:28:46.240
<v Speaker 1>work and lost their livelihoods um which I like I

0:28:46.280 --> 0:28:51.000
<v Speaker 1>thought was an interesting sentiment to come back to you

0:28:51.120 --> 0:28:53.720
<v Speaker 1>because at that point it was years after the decisions

0:28:53.720 --> 0:28:56.320
<v Speaker 1>had all been made. I like the part with the

0:28:56.360 --> 0:29:00.280
<v Speaker 1>pirate flags, that's my favorite part well, and there's also

0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:03.160
<v Speaker 1>there were things about like the British ships basically throwing

0:29:03.200 --> 0:29:07.360
<v Speaker 1>potatoes at people, uh I mean at the at the

0:29:07.360 --> 0:29:11.960
<v Speaker 1>Icelandic ships. So this documentary documentary is really super interesting

0:29:12.000 --> 0:29:14.760
<v Speaker 1>because you hear from people who were who were on

0:29:14.800 --> 0:29:18.920
<v Speaker 1>these ships and we're uh, we're making living, making their

0:29:18.920 --> 0:29:22.520
<v Speaker 1>living fishing, and it really does seem like, especially through

0:29:22.560 --> 0:29:26.400
<v Speaker 1>the first the first couple of incidents where it moved

0:29:26.440 --> 0:29:28.719
<v Speaker 1>from three miles to four and from four to twelve,

0:29:29.360 --> 0:29:32.440
<v Speaker 1>that there was kind of a weird spirit of camaraderie

0:29:33.800 --> 0:29:38.840
<v Speaker 1>where where the British, the British fisherman would be like, uh, yeah,

0:29:38.880 --> 0:29:41.400
<v Speaker 1>we're gonna do this anyway, and also throw potatoes at you,

0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:45.320
<v Speaker 1>and Iceland was like, that's not cool, but we're gonna

0:29:45.360 --> 0:29:48.520
<v Speaker 1>totally be fair when we arrest you and take you

0:29:48.560 --> 0:29:54.840
<v Speaker 1>to court for your unsanctioned fishing activities. Um. It definitely though,

0:29:55.040 --> 0:29:59.360
<v Speaker 1>just just ruined the economy of some particular ports cities.

0:29:59.440 --> 0:30:02.160
<v Speaker 1>And then when you look at Britain's fishing industry today,

0:30:02.640 --> 0:30:06.880
<v Speaker 1>it is completely different than it was up through nineteen

0:30:06.960 --> 0:30:09.480
<v Speaker 1>seventy and also a lot of the fish that used

0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:12.360
<v Speaker 1>to be UH used to be fished through distant water

0:30:12.360 --> 0:30:17.280
<v Speaker 1>fishing fleets are instead now raised through aquacultures that are

0:30:17.280 --> 0:30:22.280
<v Speaker 1>basically farmed instead of UM having this whole international agreement

0:30:22.400 --> 0:30:28.120
<v Speaker 1>to send trawlers to other international waters to try to fish.

0:30:28.520 --> 0:30:38.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah show, thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday.

0:30:39.080 --> 0:30:41.160
<v Speaker 1>Since this episode is out of the archive, if you

0:30:41.240 --> 0:30:43.240
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0:30:49.960 --> 0:30:54.120
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