1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,599 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here. 2 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 2: the future of this show. 5 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 3: This is the only place where you can find honest 6 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,239 Speaker 3: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does 7 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 3: not exist anywhere else. 8 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please 9 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and 10 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free, 11 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. 12 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 3: We need your help to build the future of independent 13 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 3: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints 14 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 3: dot com. 15 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 2: All right, let's get to some troubling developments with regard 16 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 2: to this OpenAI whistleblower. 17 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 4: We can put this up on this screen. 18 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 2: He was a former researcher at OpenAI turned whistleblower, and 19 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:46,760 Speaker 2: he has sadly been found dead in his apartment in 20 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 2: San Francisco. According to authorities, they ruled his death to 21 00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 2: be a suicide. They say police found no evidence of 22 00:00:53,960 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 2: foul play. In October, The New York Times had published 23 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 2: an interview with mister Bology. His name is Suchier Bology 24 00:01:02,400 --> 00:01:05,960 Speaker 2: and he alleged that open ai had violated US copyright 25 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 2: law while it was developing chat gpt, and he became 26 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 2: so disturbed by what he learned about his you know, 27 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 2: his allegations about their copyright violations, and how unethical this 28 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,839 Speaker 2: was and how damaging it ultimately was to the entire 29 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 2: Internet ecosystem. He felt he could no longer remain at 30 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 2: open ai, and then you know, came out as a whistleblower. 31 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 2: We can put this next piece up on the screen, 32 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 2: which includes some of his writings and thoughts. This is 33 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 2: something that he posted relatively recently, says I recently participated 34 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 2: in New York Times story about fair use and generative 35 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 2: AI YM skeptical fair use would be a plausible defense 36 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 2: for a lot of generative AI products. I also wrote 37 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 2: a blog post to give some context. I was at 38 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,919 Speaker 2: open ai for nearly four years, worked on chat GPT 39 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: for the last one and a half of them. I 40 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 2: initially didn't know much about copyright, fair use, et cetera, 41 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 2: but became curious after seeing all the lawsuits. When I 42 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:58,560 Speaker 2: tried to understand the issue better, I came to the 43 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 2: conclusion that fair use seems like a pretty implausible defense 44 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 2: for a lot of generative AI products for the basic 45 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 2: reason that they can create substitutes that compete with the 46 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:09,799 Speaker 2: data they are trained on. I've written up the more 47 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 2: detailed reasons for why I believe this in my post. 48 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: Obviously I'm not a lawyer, but I still feel like 49 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 2: it's important for even non lawyers to understand the law, 50 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,359 Speaker 2: both the letter of it and why it's actually there 51 00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:20,519 Speaker 2: in the first place. That being said, he goes on 52 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 2: to say, I don't want this to read as a 53 00:02:21,680 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 2: critique of chat, GPT or open AI per se, because 54 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 2: fair use and generative AI is a much broader issue 55 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 2: than any one product or company. 56 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 4: And I also went. 57 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 2: Back to read the New York Times story that he 58 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 2: references here that he was you know, he was really 59 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 2: featured in and was kind of the main character in. 60 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 2: And one of the things that he told the Times 61 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 2: was quote, if you believe what I believe, you have 62 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: to just leave the company. He had not taken a 63 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,639 Speaker 2: new job at that time. Back in October, he said 64 00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: he was working on what he calls personal projects. Was 65 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 2: among the first employees to leave a major AI company 66 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 2: and speak out publicly against the way these companies have 67 00:02:58,639 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 2: used copyrighted data to create their technologies, and he believes 68 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 2: the threats are more immediate than some of the you know, 69 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 2: some of the things we've talked about on the show, 70 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 2: like the potential extremely dystopian possibilities that have been raised 71 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 2: by some of the people who are concerned about the 72 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 2: AI future. 73 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 4: He says the threats are more immediate. 74 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: Chat GPTO and other chatbots, he said, are destroying the 75 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 2: commercial viability of the individuals, businesses, and internet services they 76 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 2: created the digital data used to train these AI systems. 77 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:31,600 Speaker 4: And obviously, if his view were to hold in let's say, 78 00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 4: a court of. 79 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 2: Law, it really would fundamentally disturb, disrupt, undercut this entire 80 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 2: now massive industry that all of Silicon Valley is effectively 81 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 2: placing gigantic, multi billion, if not trillion dollar bets on 82 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 2: the amounts of money that are at stake at this 83 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 2: point in you know, AI development that are that already 84 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 2: have manifested themselves are quite astric which is why you know, 85 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 2: police say it was a suicide. We have no specific 86 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: evidence to indicate otherwise. But when you see someone who 87 00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: is a key player blowing the whistle on these practices, 88 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 2: who could potentially be a danger to a multi, multi 89 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 2: hundreds of millions of dollar industry, billions of dollars industry. 90 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 2: You have to raise questions about what exactly happened here. 91 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, And you know, if you look at the 92 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 3: circumstances too, Like you said, at least the medical examiner 93 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 3: or the police, they claimed that there was no foul play. 94 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:32,719 Speaker 3: But I just think in the context of what you 95 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 3: were just saying, there is obvious that we should at 96 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 3: least take it seriously like we did with the Boeing investigation. 97 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 3: Let's put this up there on the screen. Open AI 98 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 3: has a lot of steak right now. Right now, Sam 99 00:04:45,080 --> 00:04:48,640 Speaker 3: Altman is donating one million dollars to the Donald Trump 100 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:52,520 Speaker 3: Inaugural Fund. The Financial Times and others have reported by 101 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,720 Speaker 3: the way that his feud with Elon Musk is like 102 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 3: a potential existential threat to the company. They have talked 103 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 3: about how he has made you know, and look, it's 104 00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 3: actually true. There is a huge divergence between AI theory 105 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 3: of some of the people like David Sachs, Elon Musk, 106 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 3: Mark Andresen around open source AI versus the closed quote 107 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:18,039 Speaker 3: unquote responsibility AI systems that open AI and Microsoft want, 108 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:22,359 Speaker 3: which is basically a monopolistic like gateway over their current systems. 109 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 3: There are billions of dollars at steak, just personally for 110 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 3: Sam Altman. There are trillions of dollars at steak, for 111 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 3: Microsoft for its market cap, and for the entire tech industry. 112 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 3: Put the next one up there on the screen, for example, 113 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 3: open ai is quote Sam Altman quote worked for love. 114 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 3: Now he's going to make ten point five billion. This 115 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 3: is something that Elon has also talked about. It's like, oh, 116 00:05:46,839 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 3: it's miraculous. You start out as a nonprofit and then 117 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,280 Speaker 3: you eventually hit paydirt. Then you just go through all 118 00:05:52,320 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 3: of this fake legal you know, maneuvering to convert yourself 119 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 3: to a for profit organization that's worth one hundred and 120 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 3: fifty billion dollars, and now you're a multi billionaire on 121 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 3: paper who's already quite well with Yes, he already. 122 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 4: Was, but you know, I mean multi never hurts, right, And. 123 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 3: Look, I don't think it's about money per se. It's 124 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 3: about power. It's about control. And so if a single 125 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:19,119 Speaker 3: individual in this organization feels that this is a threat, yeah, 126 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,240 Speaker 3: look we got to take it seriously. There's just way 127 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 3: too much here at stake and in a sense, I 128 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 3: think we should take some of these people at their word. 129 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:27,560 Speaker 3: I don't even one hundred percent believe like AI is 130 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:29,120 Speaker 3: going to be the one hundred percent know the future, 131 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 3: the determiner of everything, It's going to change the fundamental 132 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 3: relationship of humanity to each other, et cetera. But if 133 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 3: we take them seriously and they believe that to be true, 134 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 3: then the stakes couldn't be higher. I mean, you know, 135 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 3: it's like being in the forefront of the smartphone. It 136 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 3: was a multi literal trillion dollar industry. So that's what 137 00:06:46,720 --> 00:06:50,040 Speaker 3: they believe at the very least. Take a look at 138 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 3: this whistleblower. I mean, there's a lot of sketchy people 139 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,800 Speaker 3: involved in these companies, Saudi's, you know, they've been investing 140 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 3: in Silicon Valley, all these other foreign agents, governments, et cetera. 141 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 1: So a lot of people have a lot of money. 142 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 2: This is a big money, high stage game that's being played, 143 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 2: and you can see it too in the contours of 144 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:07,039 Speaker 2: this election. I mean, with both crypto and AI, which 145 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 2: kind of like you know, linked as a certain sense, 146 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:15,679 Speaker 2: is like these technologies allegedly of the future, astronomical record 147 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 2: breaking amounts of money spent you know, Elon, he has 148 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,680 Speaker 2: a lot of different motives, but certainly with him and 149 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 2: Risen and David Sachs and others making sure that they 150 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 2: can have a free hand to develop these technologies and 151 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 2: benefit from these technologies in the way that they want 152 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: was certainly a motivating factor in the way that they 153 00:07:39,840 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 2: participated in this election. So Sam Altman right now is 154 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 2: in is in suck up mode. You know, that's where 155 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 2: the million dollars to Trump inaugural comes from. He also 156 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 2: was asked about Elon and Tojin he was. 157 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 4: Like, I'm sure it'd be great. 158 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 2: Sure, no problems there. Elon the magnificent. I never had 159 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 2: a bad word to say about him. Love the guy, 160 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 2: he's he's wonderful. So he's you know, the vibe is panic, right. 161 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: The vibe there honestly should be definitely penny. Yeah, because 162 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 2: Elon now is probably the most powerful person in the world, 163 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,239 Speaker 2: in addition to already being the wealthiest person in the world. 164 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:14,720 Speaker 2: So you know that he's on the wrong side of 165 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: him is potentially this is White devastating his own personal goal. 166 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 3: At least my hope is because I think it's outrageous 167 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 3: what they have done. You take a nonprofit, develop a 168 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 3: consumer platform, you convert it to for profit. You sign 169 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,679 Speaker 3: a partnership with the largest tech company in the world. 170 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 3: You lobby the government to create guardrails so that no 171 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 3: new entrance can enter the space. You've created all these 172 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 3: fake licensing agreements, incorporating it into Microsoft's like office environment. 173 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 3: And you know, now we're talking about tech what was it, 174 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 3: We're talking about Pentagon contracts and all this other stuff. 175 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 3: I mean, the acceleration of this and it's its power 176 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 3: in the United States in just the last five years 177 00:08:54,920 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 3: is extraordinary. So yeah, oversight great, open source absolutely the 178 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 3: less power these people have the better off in my opinion, 179 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 3: especially again if we are to believe them. But any Yeah, 180 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 3: that's the one thing I think Elon is one hundred 181 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 3: percent correct. 182 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:12,719 Speaker 2: I think I differ on this because I don't think 183 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 2: open source is the answer, although I think it's better 184 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 2: than monopoly control from like a Microsoft, so I think 185 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,160 Speaker 2: it's superior to the sam Altman moder model. But I 186 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,560 Speaker 2: think there has to be significant government regulation to make 187 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,640 Speaker 2: sure that these new technologies benefit humanity rather than benefiting 188 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 2: just you know a few. 189 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 3: I don't disagree with you or like total private I 190 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 3: actually for like a set standard, as in, this is 191 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:39,240 Speaker 3: our problem with social media and all these problems with moderation. 192 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:42,000 Speaker 3: It's like, okay, listen, we just pass a law that 193 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 3: says you moderate per. 194 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: The First Amendment. 195 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 3: It's like, that's it. Take all this crap off the 196 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 3: table on AI. It's like, no political interference with this. 197 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 3: You have to have a copyright compensation, right, let's figure 198 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 3: all this out first and not fall into the same 199 00:09:57,160 --> 00:10:00,079 Speaker 3: trap as Section two thirty, like with the Internet in 200 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six or whatever. And we're like, oh, yeah, 201 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 3: you know this bill click. I was at the White 202 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:07,000 Speaker 3: House Christmas tour and they have a photo of Clinton 203 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 3: sending the first email in ninety six. 204 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: On this like brick laptop. 205 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 3: But you're like, I mean this thing is gigantic. I 206 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 3: was like this this thick. 207 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 4: Oh you don't mean literally, no, no. 208 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 3: Like like a literal It looks like a brick from 209 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 3: nineteen ninety six. And you could see him hunched over 210 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 3: like this. He can tell he doesn't even know how 211 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 3: to type, which is hilarious, you know, like the classic 212 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,959 Speaker 3: boomer the boomer fingers and yeah, and I was look 213 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 3: at it. 214 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:37,080 Speaker 4: It's crazy to think typ like on like actual typewriters. 215 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: It was, you would hope. So I don't think so. 216 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 3: From what I saw, he's got the classic like chicken 217 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 3: peck thing going on. I think he sent it. I 218 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 3: forget who he sent the email to. Anyway, My point 219 00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 3: is I was alive for that, right. So what we've seen, 220 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:51,040 Speaker 3: that acceleration happened, and at that time, nobody could have 221 00:10:51,040 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 3: predicted with the Internet, you know, would have become. At 222 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 3: that time, they called it the Information super Highway. So 223 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,000 Speaker 3: let's just set the standards now and then we don't 224 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 3: have to worry as much and you can actually be 225 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 3: better off for every everybody. We're going to have more entrance, etc. 226 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,480 Speaker 3: But instead, what's going to happen. You're gonna multily. 227 00:11:04,520 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 1: You know already what it is. 228 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,440 Speaker 3: We've got lobbyists in Washington, we got a multi billion 229 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,440 Speaker 3: trillion dollar industry, you know, basically the S and P 230 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 3: five hundred. If a single one of these stocks goes down, 231 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,040 Speaker 3: I think it's like the majority of the gains of 232 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 3: the S and P five hundred is seven stocks. If Nvidia, 233 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:22,559 Speaker 3: which already by the way, didn't meet expectations in its 234 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,680 Speaker 3: last one, if it has a couple of down quarters boom. 235 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 3: The whole US economy can go like that. So there's 236 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 3: a lot riding on this, and it is very terrifying, Crystal, 237 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 3: what are you taking a look at? 238 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,559 Speaker 2: Well, in the wake of their stunning defeat, Democrats and 239 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,600 Speaker 2: legacy media have been unusually receptive to hearing a little 240 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 2: bit from Bernie Sanders and his assessment of what went wrong. 241 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 2: Of course, this openness comes oh, roughly a decade too late, 242 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 2: but it is much deserved. He's been cracked on many things, 243 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,280 Speaker 2: from our disastrous wars, to Wall Streets impunity, to the 244 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:56,680 Speaker 2: Democratic Party's disastrous abandonment of working class people. And now, 245 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 2: in a viral clip, Bernie Sanders is sounding the alarm 246 00:11:59,400 --> 00:11:59,959 Speaker 2: on America. 247 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 4: Can oligarchy take a listen? 248 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,679 Speaker 5: We are moving rapidly into an oligarchic form of society. 249 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 5: Never before in American history have so few billionaires, so 250 00:12:09,960 --> 00:12:12,960 Speaker 5: few people, have so much wealth and so much power. 251 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 5: Never before has there been so much concentration of ownership 252 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 5: sector after sector, power of Wall Street. And never before 253 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 5: in American history, and we better talk about this, have 254 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,840 Speaker 5: the people on top had so much political power? 255 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 1: We can't go around the world. 256 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 5: Take Oh, well, you know, in Russia, Putin has an oligarchy. Well, 257 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 5: we got an oligarchy here too, And in this last election, 258 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 5: in both parties, billionaires spent huge amounts of money to 259 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:39,640 Speaker 5: elect their candidates. 260 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,160 Speaker 2: Now the pathway too, this oligarchy was paid with many things. 261 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 2: You had Supreme Court decisions opening the floodgates of unlimited 262 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 2: campaign contributions. You had the Republican Party's long held position 263 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 2: carrying water for the wealthy, any of the Democratic parties, 264 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 2: Clinton eir capitulation to these very same forces. All of 265 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 2: these developments led to the money over everything nature of 266 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 2: the recent presidential election, in which Kamala Harris raised record 267 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 2: breaking amounts of cash in a record breaking amount of time, 268 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 2: and where Trump openly prompts billionaires he would do their 269 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 2: bidding if he was elected. Now his campaign received extraordinary 270 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 2: bribes one hundred million dollars from Miriam Adelson over a 271 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 2: quarter billion from Elon Musk. Musk's donation was of a 272 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 2: size that, at least as far as we know, has 273 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 2: never before seen in history. And Trump is already rewarding 274 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 2: his big donors with consequential roles and what amounts to 275 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: a brazen selling of government positions According to a CNN analysis, 276 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 2: nearly three dozen of Trump's key administration picks were donors 277 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 2: to his campaign. Now, of course, rewarding supporters with positions 278 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:43,280 Speaker 2: that is also nothing new, but the size and scope 279 00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 2: here are truly without parallel. So for comparison, Joe Biden 280 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 2: staffed his admin with twelve people who had previously donated 281 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: to his campaign or affiliated groups. 282 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 4: But where those. 283 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,760 Speaker 2: Twelve combined for contributions of about one hundred thousand dollars, 284 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 2: Trump's key picks they combined for thirty seven million dollars 285 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 2: and contributions. And that's without including Elon Musk, who put 286 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,080 Speaker 2: two hundred and sixty two million dollars in and now 287 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 2: has this powerful hole of government position to remake the 288 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,559 Speaker 2: entire federal government to suit his personal whims and desires. Yes, 289 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 2: American oligarchy has been a long time in the making, 290 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,360 Speaker 2: but in the incoming administration it is in full bloom 291 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 2: like never before, and you can see the telltale signs 292 00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 2: both in government molding itself to serve favored oligarchs and 293 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 2: in the behavior of wealthy elites who are vying for 294 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 2: status as favored oligarchs. Toward that end, we've already been 295 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 2: witnessed to some shameful billionaire groveling. According to NPR, major 296 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 2: Silicon Valley executives like Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, and Sam Altman, 297 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,760 Speaker 2: who had previously been Trump adversaries, are dishing out millions 298 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 2: to the Trump and operation in order to curry favor 299 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,520 Speaker 2: with the incoming president. Salesforce CEO Mark Bennioff says he 300 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 2: is quote turning the page on his Trump relationship, and 301 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 2: I'm sure it doesn't hurt that Time, magazine owned by Bennioff, 302 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,000 Speaker 2: just declared Trump Person of the Year. Silicon Valley historian 303 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 2: Margaret O'Mara told NPR, quote, taken together the donations and 304 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 2: other celebratory gestures showcase and industry kissing the ring of 305 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 2: an incoming president in hopes of something in return. It's 306 00:15:05,080 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: just a recognition that there's not much to be gained 307 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 2: in opposition, but perhaps there is something to be gained 308 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 2: by being very clear about your support and hope. 309 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:13,960 Speaker 4: That Trump does well. 310 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 2: Trump himself yesterday I actually commented on this shameless groveling. 311 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 4: Let's take a listen to that. 312 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 5: Did you talk. 313 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 1: About terrors in that meeting at Hole? 314 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 6: CEO Tim Cook, I did have a dinner with Tim Cook. 315 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,200 Speaker 6: I had dinner with sort of almost all of them, 316 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 6: and the rest are coming. And this is one of 317 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 6: the big differences I think between we were talking about 318 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:41,000 Speaker 6: it before, one of the big differences between the first term. 319 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 6: The first term, everybody was fighting me. This term, everybody 320 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 6: wants to be my friend. I don't know my personality 321 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 6: changed or something. But I had, as you know, I 322 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 6: had Sundar from Google, but I also had Sergei. 323 00:15:55,280 --> 00:16:00,680 Speaker 7: Nobody reported that Sergey is the owner the primary along 324 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 7: with his friend, as you know, and Sergei was here also. 325 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 7: I can't believe you didn't pick that one up. Nobody 326 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 7: picked that up. But I will tell you now. It's 327 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 7: a big difference. The big difference is that the first time, 328 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 7: everybody was fighting me. 329 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,200 Speaker 2: No, mister Trump, I don't think your personality changed, but 330 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 2: apparently their. 331 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 4: Self interested calculus did. 332 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 2: And they all went in on the spoils of government 333 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 2: largesse and to avoid getting crosswise with the new regime. 334 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 2: So what does rule by a Cabala billionaires actually look like? Well, effectively, 335 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 2: the project is. 336 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 4: A familiar one. 337 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 2: It's rugged individualism for you and pampered coddling for the 338 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 2: favored few. They want to strip away all powers of 339 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 2: the government to curb corporate access while juicing their own 340 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 2: tax cuts, subsidies, and contracts. For a more granular view 341 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 2: of how this project will operate, one person you should 342 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 2: pay attention to a Silicon Valley investor, Mark Andresen. 343 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 4: Now. 344 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,640 Speaker 2: Andresen says that he has been spending half his time 345 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 2: in Florida with Trump, helping to staff and guide the 346 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:55,200 Speaker 2: incoming administration. 347 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 4: He is also a close buddy of. 348 00:16:57,360 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 2: Elon and ally, having invested hundreds of millions in Elon's 349 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 2: Mary Spenser's and having backed him in his Twitter takeover. 350 00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 2: In a podcast with Barry Weiss, Andresen confirmed that he's 351 00:17:06,080 --> 00:17:09,920 Speaker 2: advising Trump on tech, business economics and the quote success 352 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 2: of the country, and is also helping staff up Musk's 353 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 2: DOGE Commission. Andresen and Musk have both been upfront about 354 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:19,040 Speaker 2: their plan to undercut any government regulator that has ever 355 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 2: stood in their or their portfolio companies. In the case 356 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 2: of Andresen's way, they are taking aim at the CFPP, 357 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 2: which has been inconvenient for some of Andresen's Scammi re 358 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,280 Speaker 2: portfolio investments. The SEC, which has had the gall to 359 00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 2: check Elon on alleged stock manipulation, and furthermore, has tried 360 00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 2: to protect people from crypto scams and the NLRB, which 361 00:17:38,119 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 2: allows workers to form unions. In addition, the incoming Trump 362 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 2: administration is taking aim at specific regulations that the ascendant 363 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:50,000 Speaker 2: oligarchs find inconvenient. Reuters has reported that the Trump transition 364 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 2: team is recommending elimination of an automated vehicle crash reporting 365 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 2: requirement that has proven irksome to Tesla. You can see 366 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,000 Speaker 2: why Elon might not be a fan of this particular privision. 367 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 2: According to the National Highway Transportation Safety Administration, forty out 368 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 2: of the forty five fatal crashes that were reported to 369 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,000 Speaker 2: the agency under this provision involved a Tesla, including an 370 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 2: accident where a driver using autopilot careened into a tractor trailer, 371 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 2: and another where Tesla hit a fire truck, killing the 372 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,119 Speaker 2: driver and injuring for firemen. The Trump transition team describes 373 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 2: this data collection as quote excessive, but it proved extremely 374 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 2: valuable in agency investigations, which led to twenty twenty three 375 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:30,840 Speaker 2: Tesla safety recalls. In other words, the data collection was 376 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 2: good for public safety, but it was bad for Elon 377 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 2: public didn't give Trump more than two hundred and fifty 378 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,800 Speaker 2: million dollars, did they, So Elon apparently wins. Now this 379 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 2: is a comparatively small example, but if it's your loved 380 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 2: one behind the wheel of a Tesla car an autopilot, 381 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 2: it becomes a little more significant. And there is no 382 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:49,240 Speaker 2: entity outside the government with the power to make sure 383 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 2: that as autonomous vehicles become mainstream, drivers, passengers, and bystanderds 384 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 2: are not put at undue risk for profit. Now that 385 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 2: applies obviously, not just with vehicles, but with every sector, 386 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,480 Speaker 2: including the burgeoning AI and crypto sectors, which threaten the 387 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 2: global financial system, systems of ethics, nation states, and potentially 388 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 2: humanity itself. These billionaires are driven both by ideology and 389 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 2: self interest to make sure that their power is unlimited 390 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,159 Speaker 2: by any pesky checks of representative democracy. Now, such a 391 00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:20,520 Speaker 2: project requires a continuation of the war on New Deal programs, 392 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,959 Speaker 2: which in fairness, Republicans have been waging since the advent 393 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 2: of the New Deal itself. Now that's important to oligarchs 394 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 2: for a few reasons. First of all, a secure social 395 00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:32,040 Speaker 2: safety net and financially stable working class is less desperate. 396 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 2: They have more leverage, more ability to tell an abusive 397 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 2: boss to piss off and negotiate for higher wages and 398 00:19:37,280 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 2: better conditions. What's more, a government that delivers for people 399 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:45,120 Speaker 2: in a meaningful way builds trust. It earns the confidence 400 00:19:45,119 --> 00:19:48,199 Speaker 2: of the public that imbues it with more potential power 401 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 2: to check those oligarchic excesses. So it should be no 402 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 2: surprise that, in a recent interview with Chris Williamson Andreson 403 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 2: announced his desire to dismantle the remaining vestiges of the 404 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,360 Speaker 2: New Deal, pining for what he calls a reverse FDR. 405 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:02,040 Speaker 4: Take a listen. 406 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 8: The other lens on this that I think about a 407 00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 8: lot is Curtis Yarvin. I was also a good friend 408 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,639 Speaker 8: of mine, and he the way he describes the American 409 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 8: system that's running the people, the way he describes it 410 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 8: is we are we are living under FDR's personal monarchy 411 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 8: eighty years later without FDR right and the reason he 412 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 8: describes that. He says, Look, when before FDR, the federal 413 00:20:26,119 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 8: government was actually very small, Like the tax rates were 414 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 8: like super low. The federal government didn't do very much. 415 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 8: The FDR dramatically, you know, my orders of magnitude increased 416 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 8: the size of the scope of the federal government. He 417 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 8: did that for two reasons. One was the New Deal 418 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 8: and then the other was World War Two. And so 419 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 8: the federal government that Franklin Roosevelt left behind in nineteen 420 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 8: forty five when he passed away was the government that 421 00:20:47,359 --> 00:20:49,239 Speaker 8: he had built, which he had run the entire time 422 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 8: from nineteen thirty three to nineteen forty five himself, in 423 00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 8: which he had staffed himself, and he had overseen himself 424 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 8: and everything. And he built this basically this giant structure, 425 00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,199 Speaker 8: and as Curtis basically says, as long as you had 426 00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 8: FDR running that it could run really well. And you know, 427 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 8: we won World War two and save the free world 428 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:06,320 Speaker 8: and like it weren't and pulled the USIUD of depression, 429 00:21:06,359 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 8: like the whole thing working. 430 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: It was great. 431 00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,000 Speaker 8: But if you let an organization of that size and 432 00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 8: scope run without its founder CEO for eighty years, you 433 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,080 Speaker 8: end up with what we have now, which is just 434 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 8: like basically an out of control bureaucracy, like an out 435 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 8: of control system in which people can't even make positive 436 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 8: change even if they want to. Yeah, and again that's 437 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 8: why you could have in the US, you could have 438 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:27,040 Speaker 8: reason for optimism, which is Okay, what do you need, Well, 439 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 8: you need another FDR like figure bit in reverse, right, 440 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,199 Speaker 8: you need somebody and a team of people around them 441 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,080 Speaker 8: who's actually willing to come in and like take the 442 00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 8: thing by the throat and make the changes, by the way, 443 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 8: make the changes that FDR would probably make if he 444 00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 8: were here to make them. But he's not right, and 445 00:21:42,359 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 8: so somebody else has to step up and do that. 446 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:47,359 Speaker 8: It has to be a president because nobody else conceivably 447 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,200 Speaker 8: has the power to do that. But you know, we 448 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,680 Speaker 8: will see how much this president can do. But like that, 449 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,439 Speaker 8: that's a lot of what this administration plans to do. 450 00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,679 Speaker 2: So what you're hearing there, in spite of the modern 451 00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,119 Speaker 2: technochine the Trump was branding, all of that is a 452 00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,040 Speaker 2: bottom old school Koch Brothers right now style Paul Ryan 453 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,200 Speaker 2: esque austerity economics, austerity for you anyway, not necessarily for them. 454 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 2: Also noteworthy Ann and Dreeson's response is the name checking 455 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 2: of his friend Curtus Jarvin. Now Jarvin opposes democracy outright, 456 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 2: He would say that himself in favor of either overt 457 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 2: monarchy or sort of feudal corporatism with CEOs functioning as 458 00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 2: effectively kings. Doubtedly a pretty cool philosophy if you are 459 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 2: in line to be one of those corporate god kings. 460 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 2: Not so much for those of us who would like 461 00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:29,840 Speaker 2: to continue having some say in our governance and social contract. 462 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 2: Now this raise another important point which helps to illuminate 463 00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 2: some of the early Trump administration moves. These guys hate democracy, 464 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:38,440 Speaker 2: and again this isn't new. There's a long strain of 465 00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 2: elite opposition to democratic governance that stretches all the way 466 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 2: back to the founding fathers. And the biggest bulwark against 467 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 2: an anti democracy ideology is a capable, democratically elected government 468 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 2: providing clear material benefits. FDR understood this well. He understood 469 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 2: how critical that was in his fight against fascism. In 470 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,960 Speaker 2: one of his fireside chats, he proclaimed, quote, history proves 471 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 2: that dictatorships do not grow out of strong and successful governments, 472 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:09,040 Speaker 2: but out of weak and helpless ones. If by democratic methods, 473 00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 2: people get a government strong enough to protect them from 474 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 2: fear and starvation, their democracy succeeds. But if they do not, 475 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 2: they grow impatient. So if you believe in democracy, the 476 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 2: best way to see at flourish is to build government 477 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 2: capacity to deliver for people. And if you hate democracy, 478 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 2: the best way to undermine it is to attack the 479 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 2: most popular and successful elements of that government, to starve it, 480 00:23:31,720 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 2: to shrink it, to make it incompetent, to make it corrupt. 481 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,200 Speaker 2: That's why Social Security and Medicare have long been targets 482 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:40,119 Speaker 2: for the right and for anti populace in general. Is 483 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 2: not in spite of their popularity, but because of it. 484 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,399 Speaker 2: And the same logic for our government's most popular agencies applies, 485 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 2: such as the US Postal Service. Now, the USPS does 486 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 2: honestly a truly markable job delivering mail to every single 487 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 2: location in the country, no matter how remote, on a 488 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 2: daily basis. It's a marvel and it is second only 489 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 2: to the National Park Service as America's favorite agency. So 490 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,479 Speaker 2: naturally it's now being targeted by Trump for elimination. That 491 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 2: has a dual benefit for oligarchs. Not only does the 492 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,120 Speaker 2: destruction of a popular government function further undermine popular commitment 493 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 2: to democracy, it also gives an immediate sop to corporations 494 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,439 Speaker 2: like UPS and to FedEx. In spoiler alert, delivering to 495 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:21,520 Speaker 2: a remote village in Alaska or a mountain hamlet in 496 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 2: the hollers of West Virginia, it's not profitable so many 497 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,439 Speaker 2: rural Americans will almost certainly be cut off from pustal 498 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,720 Speaker 2: service entirely, or there be price gouge, charge exorbitant fees 499 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:37,560 Speaker 2: if Trump allows profit to become king in mail delivery, cut, deregulate, privatize, 500 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 2: but keep the goodies flowing always to the top. That's 501 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,800 Speaker 2: the playbook, pain and sacrifice for the masses, bonanza. 502 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:45,000 Speaker 4: Of large s for the favorite oligarchs. 503 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 2: Bernie is right to sound the alarm about American oligarchy 504 00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 2: because we are watching this project reach new levels of 505 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 2: brazenness and control with few checks insight. 506 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 4: And to me, this is my central concern. 507 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 3: And if you want to hear my reaction to Bristol's monologue, 508 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 3: become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com. 509 00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,280 Speaker 4: All right, Sager, what do you take a look at? 510 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 3: Well, At the risk of sounding like a college junior 511 00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 3: who just got back from study abroad, I'm about to 512 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 3: regale you all about the country of Japan. It's been 513 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 3: about two weeks since I got back, and it still 514 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:18,320 Speaker 3: feels like a dream. 515 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: That's why I can't shut up about it. Going there 516 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: genuinely made. 517 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 3: Me questions some pretty foundational myths about the United States. 518 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 3: It's the only place on Earth I've ever been where 519 00:25:26,359 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 3: I would easily consider leaving the US for maybe Switzerland. 520 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 1: That's it. 521 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 3: But since I'm a loyal American and I'm never going 522 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,400 Speaker 3: to give up on this place, I thought I would 523 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 3: take a look at why is it such an amazing place? 524 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:36,760 Speaker 1: What can we learn from it? 525 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 3: First, this may sound tried, but it is perhaps the 526 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 3: most remarkable thing about it. 527 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: There are no fat people in Japan. 528 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 3: This is remarkable because of how much it cuts across 529 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 3: the grain of every other developed society. Japan, by all accounts, 530 00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 3: should be the opposite. It is a G seven nation, 531 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 3: the third largest economy on Earth. It has a population 532 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 3: rich enough to afford the creature comforts of life. It 533 00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,879 Speaker 3: is plenty consumerists, and yet they somehow defy the trend 534 00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,560 Speaker 3: in an opposite way to the US and the entire 535 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 3: Western world. 536 00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: Japan has an obesiitie rate of four percent. 537 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 3: Compare that to the US of nearly forty percent, with 538 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:10,439 Speaker 3: the vast majority of our population clocking in it at 539 00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 3: a classification of overweight. 540 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:13,200 Speaker 1: So how do they do it? 541 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 3: The answer that Johann Hari arrives at is basically culture. 542 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 3: Japan has a food culture that prioritizes simple food, high 543 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,439 Speaker 3: quality ingredients, lots of nutrition. Children are taught and encouraged 544 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:27,120 Speaker 3: at a very young age to not eat to access. 545 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 3: Schools can go as far as banning outside lunches to 546 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 3: encourage healthy eating that they provide. Furthermore, the government actively 547 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 3: penalizes people for being fat. In two thousand and eight, 548 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 3: they enacted something known as the Metabo Law, which said 549 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,399 Speaker 3: that once a year, every workplace and local government in 550 00:26:43,480 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 3: Japan has to bring in a team of nurses to 551 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 3: measure the wasteline of adults between the age of forty 552 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 3: and seventy four. If your measurements are too high, you 553 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:55,720 Speaker 3: are referred to counseling and workplaces that must actively help 554 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 3: you lose weight. Companies that have too many employees that 555 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 3: are fat are then subject to fine. Beyond that, though, 556 00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 3: is what Johan gets to They just have a better lifestyle. 557 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 3: Elderly Japanese people gather in public parts almost every morning 558 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 3: for group exercise. Day to day life in a city 559 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 3: like Tokyo requires traversing several flights of stairs walking from 560 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 3: one place to another. My average step count when I 561 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 3: was there was sixteen thousand per day. Now, of course 562 00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,200 Speaker 3: I was a tourist, but I could see easily just living, 563 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:24,360 Speaker 3: going to work, and going out to eat would require 564 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,359 Speaker 3: a ton of walking, way more than most Americans do. 565 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 3: And what's amazing is that this does not require anything crazy. 566 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 3: The Japanese eat plenty of seed oils, they have plenty 567 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 3: of candy, they have a lot of junk food, They've 568 00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 3: got red dye in their cereal. 569 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: They just don't eat that much of it. If you do, 570 00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: you're publicly shamed. 571 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 3: Instead, they just eat variations of fish, meat, rice, fermented vegetables, 572 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 3: and broth. It is incredible how full that you can 573 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,760 Speaker 3: feel on such a meal, and just how much weight 574 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,119 Speaker 3: you can lose if you do. In a sense, as 575 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 3: Johan writes, this solution is staring us right in the face. 576 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 3: It's lifestyle stupid. Building on that is carrying over the 577 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,679 Speaker 3: reverence for respect of the body to then respect for 578 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 3: each other. I cannot tell you how astonishing it is 579 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,920 Speaker 3: to feel as physically safe in a major city as 580 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:10,679 Speaker 3: you do in Tokyo. 581 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: I have traveled the globe. 582 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 3: I've probably been to almost every major city in the 583 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 3: United States and arguably every major so called global city. 584 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 3: Absolutely nothing compares to Japan. It is difficult to describe, 585 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 3: but perhaps best related anecdotes. I witness children as young 586 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 3: as seven or eight years old taking the subway by themselves, 587 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 3: walking home in the dark. Their parents have no fear 588 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 3: anything will happen to them. You board a train, the 589 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 3: conductor doesn't even check your ticket. The assumption is you're 590 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 3: just sitting in your assigned seat. You visit a store, 591 00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 3: there are no smile, you're on camera stickers, there is 592 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 3: no fear. People don't steal anything. Take a look at 593 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 3: the Apple store in Japan. 594 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 9: All the iPhones displayed aren't attached to any security device. 595 00:28:50,800 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 9: The phones just sit on a mag safe charger, which 596 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 9: means you can literally pick them up and. 597 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 4: Examine them without any restrictions. 598 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 9: And this doesn't just apply to iPhones, but the other 599 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 9: things in the store, like headphones, Like I could totally 600 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 9: just pretend these are mine and walk out, which is crazy. 601 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 9: But you know what's even crazier. Even their most expensive 602 00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 9: devices like iPads and MacBook pros are only connected to 603 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,360 Speaker 9: one thing, which is the charging cable, so you can 604 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,960 Speaker 9: literally just unplug the devices and pick them. 605 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: Up as you please. 606 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 9: The absence of security just goes to show how much 607 00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 9: trust and honesty is part of the Japanese culture. 608 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 3: The level of safety is so high much of the 609 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 3: general nuisance of life is removed entirely. When you feel 610 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 3: true peace in an urbanment environment, amazing things can happen. 611 00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 3: You can send your kids to school without fear. You 612 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 3: can open a business without thinking that people are going 613 00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 3: to steal from you. Your transaction costs go down because 614 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:40,320 Speaker 3: you don't fear being cheated. All of it comes back 615 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 3: to respect to a culture. We're at a crosswalk. Nobody 616 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 3: absolutely nobody well jaywalk because it is understood such a 617 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 3: high quality of life is attainable only if everyone mutually 618 00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,400 Speaker 3: agrees not to disturb. 619 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 1: The peace and to follow the rules. 620 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,880 Speaker 3: But that when finally, what really changed my American heart 621 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,800 Speaker 3: was this idea. What if the best place in the 622 00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 3: world is not a place that invents something, but instead 623 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 3: refines it. Japanese culture is built on refinement. Its own 624 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:12,440 Speaker 3: history is incredible. It was a place entirely closed off 625 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 3: from the world for centuries. It woke up one day 626 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 3: and was shocked to find itself the potential prey of 627 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:22,280 Speaker 3: the imperial Western powers. Instead of succumbing to the imperialist West. 628 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 3: They decided to do what they do, but even better. 629 00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 3: They sent envoys across the globe. They gathered information about technology, railroads, banking, education, 630 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 3: and in a single generation went from a peasant farming, 631 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 3: feudal society to a rival industrial power capable of destroying 632 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 3: the Russian Colossus. Their major crime actually was accelerating imperialism 633 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,440 Speaker 3: and militarism past what even the West would dream of 634 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 3: in its conquest of all of East Asia. Eventually, of course, 635 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,200 Speaker 3: that became their downfall, and yet even then, from the 636 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 3: literal ashes, it rises up to do it all over again. 637 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 3: In the last seventy five years, it went from a 638 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 3: place raised to the grid to the third largest economy 639 00:31:02,200 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 3: in the world. They did it again by not inventing 640 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 3: things per se, but by refining them. The Japanese didn't 641 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 3: invent the automobile, and yet today Toyota is the best 642 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 3: selling car brand in the world. Why by refining the 643 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,239 Speaker 3: car to be cheap, easy to fix, and reliable for 644 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 3: the most major pursose purchase that most people on Earth 645 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 3: will make. This extends to consumer electronics, to fashion, to food, 646 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 3: to everything. While I was in Japan, I was just 647 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 3: amazed at how the so called best of anything, it's there. 648 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 3: Best men's fashion Japan, no question. The level of attention 649 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,720 Speaker 3: to detail, the cultural reverence of craftsmanship means you can 650 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:38,040 Speaker 3: find the highest. 651 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,280 Speaker 1: Quality clothing in Tokyo. 652 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:41,680 Speaker 3: If you like coffee like I do, you will find 653 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,960 Speaker 3: yourself oceans away from South America and Africa drinking the 654 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 3: best cup that you will ever find. 655 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,520 Speaker 1: If you want the best pizza, it's probably in Tokyo. 656 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 3: Yes, I know it sounds crazy to the millions of 657 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,840 Speaker 3: people who flock to Italy every year. Don't take my 658 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:54,760 Speaker 3: word for it, take it from the people who tried it. 659 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 3: The Michelin Guide for Tokyo boasts dozens of non Japanese restaurants, 660 00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 3: although if you have me, there's no reason to go 661 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:03,840 Speaker 3: and not just eat Japanese food. The same applies for 662 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 3: basically every subcategory of Western life that requires any attention 663 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 3: to detail and craftsmanship. In fact, one way that you 664 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 3: know Japan is amazing is that their own population, which 665 00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:16,760 Speaker 3: is very wealthy by any global standard and can easily 666 00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 3: afford to travel, has no desire to leave. Only fifteen 667 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:23,080 Speaker 3: percent of the population has a passport, less than eight 668 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:24,600 Speaker 3: percent speak English fluently. 669 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: They don't need to or care. They live in a 670 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: great place. So I'm going to end with this. 671 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 3: If you look for a through line between everything that 672 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 3: I've discussed here, it's a culture is more important than 673 00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,040 Speaker 3: anything else. That's why we are absolutely subject to the 674 00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 3: pressures of our environment. When you have a strong culture 675 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 3: and a strong foundation, you can mold that environment to 676 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:44,160 Speaker 3: what you. 677 00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:45,240 Speaker 1: Most highly value. 678 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 3: In Japan, they have decided to mold their environment around 679 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 3: mutual respect, prosperity, and dignity. That is a very hopeful 680 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 3: story that all of us should consider as we decide 681 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 3: what type of country that we want to live in. 682 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: So that's it, Krystal, I love that place. 683 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 2: And if you want to hear my my reaction to 684 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 2: Sager's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at breakingpoints dot com. 685 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,480 Speaker 1: Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate you. 686 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 3: Counterpoints will have a great show for it everybody tomorrow 687 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:10,520 Speaker 3: and we will see you all then.