WEBVTT - My Time Doesn't Matter 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:05.200 Welcome to Time Out. I'm Eve Rodsky, author of the 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:08.879 New York Times bestseller fair Play and Find Your Unicorn Space, 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:13.400 activists on the gender division of labor, attorney and family mediator. 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.920 And I'm doctor add Nerukar, a physician and medical correspondent 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:22.000 with an expertise in the science of stress, resilience, mental health, 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.400 and burnout. We're here to peel back to layers around 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:28.320 why it's so easy for society to guard men's time 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:31.640 as if it's diamonds and to treat women's time as 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:35.000 if it's infinite like sands. And whether you are partnered 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.559 with or without children, or in a career where you 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:40.760 want more boundaries, this is the place for you for 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:44.720 all family structures. We're here to take a time out 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:50.400 to learn, get inspired, and most importantly, reclaim our time. 0:00:58.640 --> 0:01:01.800 Add I want to tell your story. I live for 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:05.200 your stories. Well, this is something I think you can 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:08.360 relate to. And I called the case of the drunk 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:15.479 Man's Jackets. So I woke up at five am one 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.360 morning to catch a flight for one day work trips Seattle, 0:01:19.520 --> 0:01:22.160 right after Ben was born. And you can picture the 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.760 scene right. I was carrying my breast pump my purse 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:28.800 on my shoulder, my laptop, my carry on bag with 0:01:28.880 --> 0:01:31.760 tons of documents, and I remember I pulled up to 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:36.160 the curve at departures around seven am, and I get 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:39.200 a text from Seth. He set seems apparently loves to 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:43.040 send me text the d d um. But his text said, 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:48.640 some guy left his jacket and beer bottle on our lawn. Okay. 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.280 So I was thinking that's weird and gross, and more importantly, 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:53.960 what was I supposed to do about it? From the road, 0:01:54.680 --> 0:01:57.520 So I put the drunk ey's jacket out of my 0:01:57.560 --> 0:02:00.520 mind for the day, and as the plane took off, 0:02:01.320 --> 0:02:04.320 I began prepping for the Family Foundation board meeting that 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:07.520 I was leading that day. So I land in Seattle. 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:10.680 I pumped for twenty minutes in the airport. How many 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:12.040 of us have had to do that go into one 0:02:12.040 --> 0:02:15.800 of those weird pods or more likely to stairwell. And 0:02:15.840 --> 0:02:18.520 I arrived in my client's boardroom and I lead this 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.960 all day meeting with three generations of family members that 0:02:22.040 --> 0:02:24.920 have been feuding so badly when I met them that 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:27.000 every time my client's son would open his mouth, my 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:32.120 client would storm out of the room. This day, I 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:35.119 felt really proud of myself that all three generations around 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:39.799 the table were communicating with grace and humor and generosity. 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:43.480 So the meaning finishes, and I knew I had to 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:46.280 pump again, but because of the sex noises. I don't 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:47.680 know if they still do that a d D if 0:02:47.680 --> 0:02:50.239 your clients tell you that. But the sex noises my 0:02:50.320 --> 0:02:53.240 pump me. I was too embarrassed to use the family 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:56.800 boardroom restroom, and so I found myself, as we said earlier, 0:02:56.880 --> 0:03:01.239 really pumping in a dark stairwell of the building parking garage, 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:05.160 pumping into plastic bags before I raced on the plane 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:08.000 to get home. So I pull up to my house 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:13.040 around ten thirty that night, completely exhausted as you can imagine, 0:03:13.639 --> 0:03:16.800 and as I'm dragging my carry on bag, I see 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:23.240 a crumpled up jacket and a broken beer bottle. It 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:27.080 was still there. Add you know, I decided to give 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:29.880 Seth the benefit of the doubt because I figured, you know, 0:03:29.919 --> 0:03:34.359 maybe he was dead or maybe trapped under a giant boulder. 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:38.440 So after I put the breast milk bottles in the refrigerator, 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.680 I started lugging myself up the stairs and guess what 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:46.680 I find? Seth outstretched on the bed, but definitely not dead. 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:50.440 In fact, he cheerfully told me that he had four 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.520 hours after the kids went to bed to check email, 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:56.839 watch Sports Center, work out, and finish a power Point deck, 0:03:57.320 --> 0:04:00.720 plenty of time to decompress from his long day, yet 0:04:00.800 --> 0:04:04.920 not enough time, apparently to clean up the drunk guys 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:11.240 stuff he discovered on our lawn sixteen hours earlier. And 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:14.600 so I go back downstairs because actually, why did I 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:16.800 do this? That I reflect on this now because what 0:04:17.160 --> 0:04:19.599 jackets are gross, but more importantly because I had a 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:22.440 toddler at the time, and the shattered beer bottle felt 0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:25.200 like a safety hazard for my kids. And so I 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:27.240 put on a pair of rubber gloves I had left 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:30.480 over from school sandwich duty. I grabbed a trash bag, 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.640 I walked outside, I threw the gross stuff in the bag. 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:36.719 I throw the trash bag into the bin, and I 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:42.440 come home. But my active resistance that night, as I 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:47.719 was doing this was that I finally timed myself. And 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:52.800 all in all, it took twelve minutes, twelve minutes from 0:04:52.800 --> 0:04:56.000 putting on those rubber gloves to finally peeling them off 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.159 and dropping them at the foot of seth side of 0:04:58.160 --> 0:05:00.440 the bed, where I looked him in the and said, 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:05.960 you're fucking welcome as I stormed off. Why I want 0:05:06.000 --> 0:05:08.320 to talk about this as an intro to this episode 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.839 today is I realized I was so upset because sess 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.920 morning text wasn't a can you believe this text, but 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:21.720 a I don't have time, this is on you? And 0:05:21.760 --> 0:05:26.120 I began thinking about twelve minutes. Those twelve minutes multiplied 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.479 by thousands over the course of almost a decade of 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:32.440 marriage and two kids at the time of this is 0:05:32.480 --> 0:05:36.080 on you required to get through each of my days, 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:41.800 and that's when I realized that women are racing against 0:05:41.800 --> 0:05:46.480 the clock from the moment we wake up. This episode 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:51.240 is about why, Why was this on me? Why is 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:55.200 this on us? So? What's so fascinating to me? This 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:59.920 idea of time is so unique to women versus men, 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:04.440 And not only do women value time differently than men, 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:09.080 but also across the lifespan, we value time so different. 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:12.840 And you and I have talked about this before. We 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:16.600 are both moms and wives, and our husbands are amazing. 0:06:17.040 --> 0:06:22.200 We married feminist husbands who totally support our decision to 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.880 work and thrive and be working mothers and have a 0:06:25.960 --> 0:06:28.200 dual income household and all of these things, and yet 0:06:28.720 --> 0:06:32.360 these stories continue to happen to us and women everywhere. 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:39.920 I have several patients women who are cancer patients, and they, 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.800 you know, have had families and work hard, and then 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.240 they get that diagnosis of cancer. So many of these 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:51.160 women that have come to me will often say that 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:54.760 it was their cancer diagnosis that was that wake up 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:58.080 call for them or that aha moment. So I've seen 0:06:58.200 --> 0:07:01.560 from my patients women may have had a certain kind 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:04.000 of job or a different kind of family structure and 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:08.000 then completely usurp and change everything about their life, so 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:10.120 they might quit their job or go into a line 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:13.320 of work that they've always wanted to do. I've had 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:18.120 some patients suddenly decided to be children's authors or painters 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:21.840 or fashion designers. But it's their hearts calling. They weren't 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:26.280 listening for decades. And it's always shocked me that it 0:07:26.360 --> 0:07:31.920 takes something like a life altering cancer diagnosis for women 0:07:31.960 --> 0:07:35.320 to reclaim their time. And I've had patients who have 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:39.080 been healed. But the crux of all of that is 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:42.920 that they finally start valuing their time on a deep 0:07:43.240 --> 0:07:46.720 cellular level. Oh my god, I love this so much 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.560 because I think about the healing versus a cure, right, 0:07:50.640 --> 0:07:53.640 The idea that there's a cure to this on you 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.760 text is a fallacy because it's a practice, and so 0:07:57.840 --> 0:08:01.640 healing is so much more of a active verbs because 0:08:01.680 --> 0:08:04.520 you can take agency in your own life. And what 0:08:04.560 --> 0:08:06.840 I like to say, and as Seth is so proud 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:10.080 of me now and brings fair play everywhere that my 0:08:10.200 --> 0:08:13.200 healing journey. When people say what started it? Or how 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:16.080 did you get to a place where your time is 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.520 now being valued within your marriage, my prescription is, well, 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:22.680 just write a book about your partner that portrays them 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.800 in a terrible light, because that was my healing journey. 0:08:25.880 --> 0:08:28.280 But the good news about this podcast is you don't 0:08:28.320 --> 0:08:30.880 need to do that. We're going to do it for 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:36.439 you and with you, and it starts with communicating with yourself. 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:42.120 And the premise of this episode is that I wish 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.959 I could talk to myself back then and say, this 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:48.400 is not about you and Seth. You have a great partner. 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:52.920 You are in a messed up society and system that 0:08:53.760 --> 0:08:59.920 values and treats Seth time as if it's finite and condition. 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:03.360 As you and your partner and the ones around you 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:08.080 to treat your time as if it's infinite. What I 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:12.040 mean by that is that if women enter male professions, 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:19.319 salaries automatically go down. We hear from society that breastfeeding 0:09:19.559 --> 0:09:25.000 is free when it's really hours, it's a full time job, 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:28.240 but somehow apparently it's free only in a world where 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:32.440 women's time is infinite. And finally, I will say that 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:36.080 the things that's been hardest for me though, as we 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:39.680 talk about reclaiming our time, is that it starts with 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:42.720 the messages we tell ourselves. And so these were the 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.559 four most popular ones. And I'm centering women married to 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:48.040 men right now, because even though this occurs in many 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.720 different family structures, this is where often the problems start, 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:56.040 with these heteronormative societal roles that we get stuck in. 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.720 One my partner makes more money than me, or somehow 0:10:00.720 --> 0:10:03.240 my job is more flexible. When we know that if 0:10:03.240 --> 0:10:05.720 a woman is a lawyer and a man is a doctor, 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:08.800 she thinks her job is more flexible. If the woman 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.240 is the doctor and the man is the lawyer, her 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:18.280 job is toda more flexible. Number two women across the 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:20.880 globe in seventeen countries said to me that they're wired 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:26.360 differently for care that they are better multitaskers. For that one, 0:10:26.400 --> 0:10:29.880 I had to go to another doctor, a neuroscientists, and 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.439 I had to ask him are our women wired differently? 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:36.760 Are our brains wired for multitasking caregiving? And indeed he 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:39.920 just looked at me and said, well, I guess culturally, 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:43.560 definitely not neurologically. That was a hard one for me 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:47.160 to hear. Number three And the time it takes me 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:49.880 to tell him her they what to do, I should 0:10:49.920 --> 0:10:53.320 just do it myself. That's a classic devaluing of your 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:57.520 future time. According to professor and friend Dan Arielli, who's 0:10:57.520 --> 0:11:02.280 a behavioral economist and popular author, and finally, the one 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:04.880 that makes me laugh the most, my partner is better 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:07.640 at focusing on one task at a time, and I 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.680 can find the time. And so I like to say, 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:13.160 unless we're Albert Einstein, we can funk with the space 0:11:13.200 --> 0:11:18.040 time continuum. There's actually no way to find time. There's 0:11:18.040 --> 0:11:21.160 no way to find time, and so what happens does 0:11:21.200 --> 0:11:23.440 that just leave to burnout if we think our time 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:27.720 is infinite. So, as you were sharing each of those 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:32.600 toxic messages, in my mind, I was saying, yep, number two, yep, 0:11:33.040 --> 0:11:36.640 number three. Yep. So what I've seen in my clinical practice, 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:40.760 and many doctors will attest to this as well, is 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:45.840 that men and women, like you said, inherently see time differently. 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:51.400 Women will say I don't have enough time. That typically 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:54.800 means that they don't have enough time to do all 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.079 of the things on their to do list that they 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:02.720 need to do, which includes work responsibilities, family responsibilities, home responsibilities. 0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:06.160 But when you ask them where do you fall on 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:10.000 that list, they are not even on that list. So 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.520 we often say in pop culture, put yourself first, or 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:16.080 fill your own cup before you feel someone else's. But 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:19.400 it is truly a paradigm shift because many women do 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:23.439 not even put themselves on that list. Men also feel 0:12:23.480 --> 0:12:27.480 time crunched, but in a different way. It's very work centric, 0:12:28.120 --> 0:12:30.959 and the women I'm talking to, they have jobs outside 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.360 the home or even in the home. They work so much, 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:39.480 so this is not a career specific view. This has 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:43.600 been very much a gendered view. Wow, I love that 0:12:43.679 --> 0:12:45.960 so much, And I want to go back to something 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:50.480 you said about women inherently valuing their time different than men, 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.880 because I think the word inherent is important in here 0:12:53.440 --> 0:12:59.920 because it's not neurological it's not biological. Inherently is because 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:05.400 we have been conditioned from birth to believe that having 0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:09.600 it all means doing it all, and once you're done 0:13:09.679 --> 0:13:15.080 with wiping the asses and doing the dishes and securing childcare, 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:20.360 there's literally no time left. Everything I had been taught 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:23.560 about having time choice over how I used my life. 0:13:23.800 --> 0:13:26.000 Being in the best decade ever women can do what 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:30.360 the same as anybody else does was was really it 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:33.760 was really a lie. You know. It's interesting about multitasking 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:36.640 is that it actually has a negative impact on the brain. 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:39.760 We've talked about this idea of women doing everything and 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:41.600 feeling like it's a badge of honor to be able 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:43.440 to do it all and have it all, and I'm 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.959 so on top of things. It actually is not healthy 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.079 to multitasks. So that's another societal norm that we need 0:13:50.120 --> 0:13:52.200 to blow up that doing it all at the same 0:13:52.240 --> 0:13:55.719 time isn't a badge of honor. It's actually impacting your 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:59.360 health in a negative way. You know. In mindfulness, we 0:13:59.440 --> 0:14:02.720 talk a lot about the timelessness of the present moment. 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:07.400 So even if it's fifteen minutes or ten minutes a day, 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:11.200 it's that sense of timelessness that childlike wonder that we 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:15.120 can create, which has so many therapeutic benefits apps. And 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:17.719 by the way, thank you for saying that, because I'm 0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:21.280 sort of sick of productivity books as I read each 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.800 one of them. It seems like we just get these 0:14:24.440 --> 0:14:28.280 ridiculous messages like wake up an hour earlier or find 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:32.880 two uninterrupted days a week, and it's unrealistic. It doesn't 0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:38.000 speak to people without extreme amounts of privilege. And so 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.680 the last toxic time message I want to talk about 0:14:41.120 --> 0:14:43.600 before we get to bring on Bridget Chalty, who is 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:48.600 the queen of talking about productivity and time, is this 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:52.600 message of if you're so overwhelmed, get help. So many 0:14:52.640 --> 0:14:55.520 people say that to women, and I find it really 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:59.840 toxic because not only does it not recognize that most 0:14:59.880 --> 0:15:03.680 of the work that is leading to women being diagnosed 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:05.760 with twice as many anxiety disorders as men is the 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:09.280 cognitive labor. The way we've looked at time, the way 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:12.600 we talked to women about time since we are born. 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:15.520 It needs to be blown up and needs to be 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:18.000 seen as toxic and there has to be a new 0:15:18.040 --> 0:15:21.640 way forward. So we're going to get to talk to 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:26.280 my great friend and fellow activists Bridges Shelty today who 0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:30.680 literally wrote the book on being overwhelmed, and I cannot 0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:52.400 wait to welcome her into the studio. Bridge Shelty literally 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:57.040 wrote the book on being overwhelmed. She's the author of 0:15:57.040 --> 0:16:01.360 the New York Times best selling book over Work, Love 0:16:01.400 --> 0:16:04.040 and Play When No One Has the Time, And it's 0:16:04.040 --> 0:16:08.840 really a book about time pressure, gender expectations, and the 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:11.800 overwhelm of modern life. So we're so happy to have 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:17.120 her here today. High Bridget, Hi, great to meet you. 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:19.840 Do you know that I've read your Guardian piece multiple 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:24.640 times from two thousand and nineteen. You know it's so 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.400 funny about that pieces. It keeps showing up on Twitter, 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.480 like from all around the world, and that peace came 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.160 out of such a moment of frustration. And I tried 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.920 to write it for a year, and every time I 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:37.920 went to sit down, I was like, mom, can you 0:16:37.960 --> 0:16:40.560 do this? I thought it was like a cosmic joke 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:42.920 that I couldn't even find the time to write that piece. 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:45.160 And for our listeners who don't know it, can you 0:16:45.200 --> 0:16:46.840 tell us a little bit about what the article it 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.760 was Bridget that went so viral. So I'm a journalist 0:16:50.800 --> 0:16:52.920 and a writer and spent most of my career at 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.680 the Washington Post, and I kind of fell into writing 0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:59.640 about time and women and work life issues that resulted 0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:02.480 in this book called Overwhelmed, Work, Glove, and Play. When 0:17:02.480 --> 0:17:05.680 no one has the time really thinking about women and time. 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:08.560 And I'm working at the Better Life Lab and there's 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:10.920 a kind of a million balls in the air, but 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.680 my identity is always as a writer first, and I 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:17.960 was feeling just this real pain that I didn't have time. 0:17:18.000 --> 0:17:21.920 I wasn't making the time to write and create and think. 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.840 And so somebody at a conference said, oh, you should 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:29.000 read this book about how the great artists made time. 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:32.800 Maybe that can give you some advice. So I read 0:17:32.840 --> 0:17:35.680 this book. I got it for myself for Christmas. This 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:38.119 was going to be like the key for me to 0:17:38.280 --> 0:17:41.760 understand how I could make more time to be creative 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:45.280 and write. And I started reading and they were really interesting. 0:17:45.320 --> 0:17:47.160 They were sort of the back stories of a lot 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:50.960 of great artists. But about ten pages in and I 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:56.280 just started getting really kissed off because just about every 0:17:56.280 --> 0:17:59.240 single artist was a man. And it's like the writer 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:02.520 he didn't even understand the picture that he was painting, 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:05.120 you know. He talked about Freud and how he had 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.160 all of this time and space to think, and part 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.679 of it was because his wife laid out his clothes 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:14.359 every morning and even put his toothpaste on his toothbrush, 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.040 you know. And they talked about Gustaf Mahler, and you know, 0:18:17.160 --> 0:18:20.600 he was married to this young, really up and coming composer, 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.760 but he wanted her to walk with him while he 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:28.239 thought about music, and he didn't want her to make 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:32.480 a sound, and she wasn't allowed to create, or you know, 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:36.720 her whole purpose was to help him create. The more 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:40.120 and more I read these pieces, the angry and angrier 0:18:40.240 --> 0:18:43.520 I got because it was such a reflection to me 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:46.960 about how women have never had this kind of space 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:51.600 or time to create and think that that's considered selfish. 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:54.399 We talk about me time as if it's something that 0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:57.920 only weak, stupid people would want, and a woman's work 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:01.399 is never done. And so it may me angry that 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:05.080 the author couldn't even see that the men were able 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:07.480 to have this space and they were able to really 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:11.199 have this wonderful full family life and the women, for 0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:14.840 the most part, we're not. And it was sort of 0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:18.560 one more indication to me of how we just don't 0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:21.800 get it. Women have never had a history or culture 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:25.080 of having time to themselves, And I just thought, what 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:29.800 have we lost? Wherever you sat on the gender spectrum, 0:19:29.960 --> 0:19:34.040 we all deserve time to be as fully human as 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:38.399 we are. All time is crazy equal, and you are 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.680 our leader and fearless warrior. And I will just reflect 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:45.000 on how powerful your work has been to me. A 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:48.960 lot of what you talked about is time choice. You know, 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:52.120 when Seth was coming home from work and he had 0:19:52.680 --> 0:19:56.080 four hours after our kids went to bed too work out, 0:19:56.200 --> 0:20:01.920 check powerpoints, finish a deck, b Shakespeare or Freud, or 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:04.000 have as time to think great. I was doing things 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:07.080 in service of our house until my head hit the pillow, 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:11.760 and um, I remember going to him and saying, I 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.560 just want equal time choice. I want as much choice 0:20:15.680 --> 0:20:17.680 over how I used my day as you have. And 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:21.520 that is why I'm resenting you so much, because you 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:23.879 look so free, and I think the problem is all 0:20:23.880 --> 0:20:28.399 the productivity researchers. Besides, you assume that we can have 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:33.720 this uninterrupted time for deep work that is just not 0:20:33.800 --> 0:20:36.960 afforded to women. You know, when you look at the 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:42.440 history of women's time, women have never had concentrated, uninterrupted time. 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:46.639 Think about it. The good wife kept the children and 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:48.840 everything away from the husband so that he could be 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:52.320 in the study. The good secretary her time was interrupted 0:20:52.359 --> 0:20:55.679 so she could protect the boss's time. So women's time 0:20:55.920 --> 0:21:00.240 has always been fragmented, interrupted, moving from thing to thing. 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:04.120 Leisure for women tends to always have this moment of 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:08.520 your checking everybody else's emotional temperature. Is everybody else having 0:21:08.520 --> 0:21:11.440 a good time? Did I plan this right? Somebody described 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:13.119 it to me. It's like maybe you're at the pool, 0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:16.919 but you're like the fireman. It's not pure leisure to yourself. 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.280 And I think that's what this fight is for women 0:21:20.320 --> 0:21:24.120 to see that they deserve this kind of time and 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:26.760 to work together because your partners have to work with 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:31.080 you as well. Just like they need and want unstructured, 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.720 concentrated time, women need that too. And then we need 0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:37.600 to work on these larger work systems and policy systems 0:21:37.600 --> 0:21:40.040 to make sure that all people have access to that. 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:42.720 You know, as I was doing research, I came across 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:47.639 this quote. To be interrupted is to be disrespected, And 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:50.440 so think about it. With women's time being so interrupted 0:21:50.600 --> 0:21:55.080 throughout all of human history, it's a sign of enormous disrespect. 0:21:56.320 --> 0:21:58.720 So R. E. S. P. E c. T. It's time. 0:21:59.119 --> 0:22:02.280 It's time for women to respect ourselves, to demand it, 0:22:02.680 --> 0:22:05.119 but also for others to recognize that we deserve it. 0:22:05.960 --> 0:22:07.960 So indeed, is gonna ask you a couple of practical 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:10.800 questions about how we can start reclaiming our time. But 0:22:10.880 --> 0:22:13.080 before that, I never asked you this personally. I've never 0:22:13.119 --> 0:22:17.240 given you the toxic time quiz. I thought it would 0:22:17.240 --> 0:22:19.640 be fun to ask you how many of these messages 0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:22.840 you heard in your research? I love it as long 0:22:22.880 --> 0:22:25.159 as you know, like full disclosure from the outset. I 0:22:25.200 --> 0:22:27.800 may research this stuff, but I'm still working on all 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:30.040 of it. So how many of these messages have you 0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:34.240 heard or said to yourself? My paid hours are worth 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:38.000 more than your unpaid hours. It's not worth it for 0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:42.120 you to work. What did you do all day? Why 0:22:42.160 --> 0:22:45.720 are you wasting time doing that? You're so lucky you 0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:48.440 don't have to go to work. Well, if you don't 0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:50.640 have enough time and you're so overwhelmed, just get help. 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:57.160 I don't have time, so can you. You're a better multitaskers, 0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:01.000 so you should just do it. My partner travels or 0:23:01.040 --> 0:23:03.920 goes to work early, so it's on me and the 0:23:04.000 --> 0:23:05.800 time it takes me. To tell my partner what to do, 0:23:05.840 --> 0:23:08.600 I might as well just do it myself. Yes, more 0:23:08.640 --> 0:23:10.480 time for myself would be great, but I really should 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:13.119 go clean out the freezer. You know. I have to 0:23:13.160 --> 0:23:15.639 say all of them. I hear them all the time 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:18.520 still in the research that I do. I have to say, 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:21.000 my husband and I have been doing the awful lot 0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:23.239 of work. And it was really through the process of 0:23:23.240 --> 0:23:26.160 doing the research of the book that I recognized that 0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:30.439 I had to begin to respect my own time because 0:23:30.440 --> 0:23:33.080 nobody else was going to. I had to learn to 0:23:33.160 --> 0:23:37.320 disrupt my own mental models of everything that I had 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:41.120 been taught. I had a breadwinner father, distant. I work, 0:23:41.200 --> 0:23:43.119 That's what I do. Don't bug me. And then I 0:23:43.160 --> 0:23:46.840 had a mother who she was a homemaker and drove 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:49.240 the car pools and did nothing on her own and 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:53.080 signed her checks Mrs Arthur A. Shalt Jr. It's like, 0:23:53.520 --> 0:23:55.840 who is that, you know? And she started sending things 0:23:55.880 --> 0:23:59.760 to me, Mrs Thomas M. Bowman. I started to send 0:23:59.760 --> 0:24:02.119 them act her saying I don't know who this is. 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:06.000 That is not me, you know. So I have heard 0:24:06.040 --> 0:24:08.600 all of those messages, and they are very potent, and 0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:11.960 they're very powerful, and they get into your psyche. So 0:24:12.240 --> 0:24:15.640 the first step is just to be aware that it's 0:24:15.640 --> 0:24:18.919 out there and that you can make a choice. You 0:24:18.960 --> 0:24:23.840 can choose to think differently and honest to God. Awareness, 0:24:24.040 --> 0:24:28.159