1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to Time Out. I'm Eve Rodsky, author of the 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,879 Speaker 1: New York Times bestseller fair Play and Find Your Unicorn Space, 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:13,400 Speaker 1: activists on the gender division of labor, attorney and family mediator. 4 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:17,920 Speaker 1: And I'm doctor add Nerukar, a physician and medical correspondent 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: with an expertise in the science of stress, resilience, mental health, 6 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: and burnout. We're here to peel back to layers around 7 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: why it's so easy for society to guard men's time 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,640 Speaker 1: as if it's diamonds and to treat women's time as 9 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: if it's infinite like sands. And whether you are partnered 10 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: with or without children, or in a career where you 11 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:40,760 Speaker 1: want more boundaries, this is the place for you for 12 00:00:40,800 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 1: all family structures. We're here to take a time out 13 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: to learn, get inspired, and most importantly, reclaim our time. 14 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,800 Speaker 1: Add I want to tell your story. I live for 15 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 1: your stories. Well, this is something I think you can 16 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: relate to. And I called the case of the drunk 17 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:15,479 Speaker 1: Man's Jackets. So I woke up at five am one 18 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: morning to catch a flight for one day work trips Seattle, 19 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: right after Ben was born. And you can picture the 20 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 1: scene right. I was carrying my breast pump my purse 21 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: on my shoulder, my laptop, my carry on bag with 22 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 1: tons of documents, and I remember I pulled up to 23 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: the curve at departures around seven am, and I get 24 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 1: a text from Seth. He set seems apparently loves to 25 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: send me text the d d um. But his text said, 26 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: some guy left his jacket and beer bottle on our lawn. Okay. 27 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 1: So I was thinking that's weird and gross, and more importantly, 28 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: what was I supposed to do about it? From the road, 29 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:57,520 Speaker 1: So I put the drunk ey's jacket out of my 30 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: mind for the day, and as the plane took off, 31 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: I began prepping for the Family Foundation board meeting that 32 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: I was leading that day. So I land in Seattle. 33 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: I pumped for twenty minutes in the airport. How many 34 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: of us have had to do that go into one 35 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: of those weird pods or more likely to stairwell. And 36 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: I arrived in my client's boardroom and I lead this 37 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 1: all day meeting with three generations of family members that 38 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 1: have been feuding so badly when I met them that 39 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: every time my client's son would open his mouth, my 40 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: client would storm out of the room. This day, I 41 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,119 Speaker 1: felt really proud of myself that all three generations around 42 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 1: the table were communicating with grace and humor and generosity. 43 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 1: So the meaning finishes, and I knew I had to 44 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 1: pump again, but because of the sex noises. I don't 45 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 1: know if they still do that a d D if 46 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 1: your clients tell you that. But the sex noises my 47 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: pump me. I was too embarrassed to use the family 48 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:56,800 Speaker 1: boardroom restroom, and so I found myself, as we said earlier, 49 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: really pumping in a dark stairwell of the building parking garage, 50 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: pumping into plastic bags before I raced on the plane 51 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,000 Speaker 1: to get home. So I pull up to my house 52 00:03:08,960 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: around ten thirty that night, completely exhausted as you can imagine, 53 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,800 Speaker 1: and as I'm dragging my carry on bag, I see 54 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: a crumpled up jacket and a broken beer bottle. It 55 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 1: was still there. Add you know, I decided to give 56 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:29,880 Speaker 1: Seth the benefit of the doubt because I figured, you know, 57 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: maybe he was dead or maybe trapped under a giant boulder. 58 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: So after I put the breast milk bottles in the refrigerator, 59 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 1: I started lugging myself up the stairs and guess what 60 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: I find? Seth outstretched on the bed, but definitely not dead. 61 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 1: In fact, he cheerfully told me that he had four 62 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: hours after the kids went to bed to check email, 63 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,839 Speaker 1: watch Sports Center, work out, and finish a power Point deck, 64 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,720 Speaker 1: plenty of time to decompress from his long day, yet 65 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: not enough time, apparently to clean up the drunk guys 66 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: stuff he discovered on our lawn sixteen hours earlier. And 67 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: so I go back downstairs because actually, why did I 68 00:04:14,640 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: do this? That I reflect on this now because what 69 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: jackets are gross, but more importantly because I had a 70 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: toddler at the time, and the shattered beer bottle felt 71 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: like a safety hazard for my kids. And so I 72 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,240 Speaker 1: put on a pair of rubber gloves I had left 73 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: over from school sandwich duty. I grabbed a trash bag, 74 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: I walked outside, I threw the gross stuff in the bag. 75 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: I throw the trash bag into the bin, and I 76 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: come home. But my active resistance that night, as I 77 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: was doing this was that I finally timed myself. And 78 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:52,800 Speaker 1: all in all, it took twelve minutes, twelve minutes from 79 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: putting on those rubber gloves to finally peeling them off 80 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: and dropping them at the foot of seth side of 81 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: the bed, where I looked him in the and said, 82 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: you're fucking welcome as I stormed off. Why I want 83 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: to talk about this as an intro to this episode 84 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,839 Speaker 1: today is I realized I was so upset because sess 85 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 1: morning text wasn't a can you believe this text, but 86 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:21,720 Speaker 1: a I don't have time, this is on you? And 87 00:05:21,760 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: I began thinking about twelve minutes. Those twelve minutes multiplied 88 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,479 Speaker 1: by thousands over the course of almost a decade of 89 00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: marriage and two kids at the time of this is 90 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: on you required to get through each of my days, 91 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: and that's when I realized that women are racing against 92 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:46,480 Speaker 1: the clock from the moment we wake up. This episode 93 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 1: is about why, Why was this on me? Why is 94 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: this on us? So? What's so fascinating to me? This 95 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: idea of time is so unique to women versus men, 96 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,440 Speaker 1: And not only do women value time differently than men, 97 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: but also across the lifespan, we value time so different. 98 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: And you and I have talked about this before. We 99 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 1: are both moms and wives, and our husbands are amazing. 100 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:22,200 Speaker 1: We married feminist husbands who totally support our decision to 101 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,880 Speaker 1: work and thrive and be working mothers and have a 102 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: dual income household and all of these things, and yet 103 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 1: these stories continue to happen to us and women everywhere. 104 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: I have several patients women who are cancer patients, and they, 105 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: you know, have had families and work hard, and then 106 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: they get that diagnosis of cancer. So many of these 107 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:51,160 Speaker 1: women that have come to me will often say that 108 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: it was their cancer diagnosis that was that wake up 109 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: call for them or that aha moment. So I've seen 110 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: from my patients women may have had a certain kind 111 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: of job or a different kind of family structure and 112 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,000 Speaker 1: then completely usurp and change everything about their life, so 113 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: they might quit their job or go into a line 114 00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: of work that they've always wanted to do. I've had 115 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: some patients suddenly decided to be children's authors or painters 116 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: or fashion designers. But it's their hearts calling. They weren't 117 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 1: listening for decades. And it's always shocked me that it 118 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: takes something like a life altering cancer diagnosis for women 119 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: to reclaim their time. And I've had patients who have 120 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: been healed. But the crux of all of that is 121 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: that they finally start valuing their time on a deep 122 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: cellular level. Oh my god, I love this so much 123 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 1: because I think about the healing versus a cure, right, 124 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 1: The idea that there's a cure to this on you 125 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: text is a fallacy because it's a practice, and so 126 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 1: healing is so much more of a active verbs because 127 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:04,520 Speaker 1: you can take agency in your own life. And what 128 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: I like to say, and as Seth is so proud 129 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: of me now and brings fair play everywhere that my 130 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: healing journey. When people say what started it? Or how 131 00:08:13,200 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: did you get to a place where your time is 132 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: now being valued within your marriage, my prescription is, well, 133 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,680 Speaker 1: just write a book about your partner that portrays them 134 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: in a terrible light, because that was my healing journey. 135 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 1: But the good news about this podcast is you don't 136 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: need to do that. We're going to do it for 137 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:36,439 Speaker 1: you and with you, and it starts with communicating with yourself. 138 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:42,120 Speaker 1: And the premise of this episode is that I wish 139 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 1: I could talk to myself back then and say, this 140 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: is not about you and Seth. You have a great partner. 141 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: You are in a messed up society and system that 142 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 1: values and treats Seth time as if it's finite and condition. 143 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:03,360 Speaker 1: As you and your partner and the ones around you 144 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: to treat your time as if it's infinite. What I 145 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 1: mean by that is that if women enter male professions, 146 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:19,319 Speaker 1: salaries automatically go down. We hear from society that breastfeeding 147 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: is free when it's really hours, it's a full time job, 148 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: but somehow apparently it's free only in a world where 149 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: women's time is infinite. And finally, I will say that 150 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:36,080 Speaker 1: the things that's been hardest for me though, as we 151 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,680 Speaker 1: talk about reclaiming our time, is that it starts with 152 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: the messages we tell ourselves. And so these were the 153 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:45,559 Speaker 1: four most popular ones. And I'm centering women married to 154 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:48,040 Speaker 1: men right now, because even though this occurs in many 155 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:51,720 Speaker 1: different family structures, this is where often the problems start, 156 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: with these heteronormative societal roles that we get stuck in. 157 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,720 Speaker 1: One my partner makes more money than me, or somehow 158 00:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: my job is more flexible. When we know that if 159 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 1: a woman is a lawyer and a man is a doctor, 160 00:10:06,240 --> 00:10:08,800 Speaker 1: she thinks her job is more flexible. If the woman 161 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: is the doctor and the man is the lawyer, her 162 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: job is toda more flexible. Number two women across the 163 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,880 Speaker 1: globe in seventeen countries said to me that they're wired 164 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: differently for care that they are better multitaskers. For that one, 165 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: I had to go to another doctor, a neuroscientists, and 166 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,439 Speaker 1: I had to ask him are our women wired differently? 167 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: Are our brains wired for multitasking caregiving? And indeed he 168 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: just looked at me and said, well, I guess culturally, 169 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 1: definitely not neurologically. That was a hard one for me 170 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: to hear. Number three And the time it takes me 171 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: to tell him her they what to do, I should 172 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: just do it myself. That's a classic devaluing of your 173 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: future time. According to professor and friend Dan Arielli, who's 174 00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: a behavioral economist and popular author, and finally, the one 175 00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 1: that makes me laugh the most, my partner is better 176 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: at focusing on one task at a time, and I 177 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: can find the time. And so I like to say, 178 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: unless we're Albert Einstein, we can funk with the space 179 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: time continuum. There's actually no way to find time. There's 180 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: no way to find time, and so what happens does 181 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 1: that just leave to burnout if we think our time 182 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,720 Speaker 1: is infinite. So, as you were sharing each of those 183 00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: toxic messages, in my mind, I was saying, yep, number two, yep, 184 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 1: number three. Yep. So what I've seen in my clinical practice, 185 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: and many doctors will attest to this as well, is 186 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: that men and women, like you said, inherently see time differently. 187 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: Women will say I don't have enough time. That typically 188 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: means that they don't have enough time to do all 189 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,079 Speaker 1: of the things on their to do list that they 190 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: need to do, which includes work responsibilities, family responsibilities, home responsibilities. 191 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: But when you ask them where do you fall on 192 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: that list, they are not even on that list. So 193 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: we often say in pop culture, put yourself first, or 194 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: fill your own cup before you feel someone else's. But 195 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: it is truly a paradigm shift because many women do 196 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,439 Speaker 1: not even put themselves on that list. Men also feel 197 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: time crunched, but in a different way. It's very work centric, 198 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 1: and the women I'm talking to, they have jobs outside 199 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 1: the home or even in the home. They work so much, 200 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: so this is not a career specific view. This has 201 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: been very much a gendered view. Wow, I love that 202 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: so much, And I want to go back to something 203 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: you said about women inherently valuing their time different than men, 204 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,880 Speaker 1: because I think the word inherent is important in here 205 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 1: because it's not neurological it's not biological. Inherently is because 206 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: we have been conditioned from birth to believe that having 207 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,600 Speaker 1: it all means doing it all, and once you're done 208 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: with wiping the asses and doing the dishes and securing childcare, 209 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: there's literally no time left. Everything I had been taught 210 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: about having time choice over how I used my life. 211 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: Being in the best decade ever women can do what 212 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 1: the same as anybody else does was was really it 213 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: was really a lie. You know. It's interesting about multitasking 214 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: is that it actually has a negative impact on the brain. 215 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: We've talked about this idea of women doing everything and 216 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: feeling like it's a badge of honor to be able 217 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: to do it all and have it all, and I'm 218 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,959 Speaker 1: so on top of things. It actually is not healthy 219 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,079 Speaker 1: to multitasks. So that's another societal norm that we need 220 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:52,200 Speaker 1: to blow up that doing it all at the same 221 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:55,719 Speaker 1: time isn't a badge of honor. It's actually impacting your 222 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: health in a negative way. You know. In mindfulness, we 223 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,720 Speaker 1: talk a lot about the timelessness of the present moment. 224 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: So even if it's fifteen minutes or ten minutes a day, 225 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,200 Speaker 1: it's that sense of timelessness that childlike wonder that we 226 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: can create, which has so many therapeutic benefits apps. And 227 00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,719 Speaker 1: by the way, thank you for saying that, because I'm 228 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: sort of sick of productivity books as I read each 229 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: one of them. It seems like we just get these 230 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:28,280 Speaker 1: ridiculous messages like wake up an hour earlier or find 231 00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: two uninterrupted days a week, and it's unrealistic. It doesn't 232 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:38,000 Speaker 1: speak to people without extreme amounts of privilege. And so 233 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: the last toxic time message I want to talk about 234 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: before we get to bring on Bridget Chalty, who is 235 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: the queen of talking about productivity and time, is this 236 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: message of if you're so overwhelmed, get help. So many 237 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: people say that to women, and I find it really 238 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: toxic because not only does it not recognize that most 239 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: of the work that is leading to women being diagnosed 240 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: with twice as many anxiety disorders as men is the 241 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: cognitive labor. The way we've looked at time, the way 242 00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: we talked to women about time since we are born. 243 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: It needs to be blown up and needs to be 244 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: seen as toxic and there has to be a new 245 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: way forward. So we're going to get to talk to 246 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 1: my great friend and fellow activists Bridges Shelty today who 247 00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:30,680 Speaker 1: literally wrote the book on being overwhelmed, and I cannot 248 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: wait to welcome her into the studio. Bridge Shelty literally 249 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:57,040 Speaker 1: wrote the book on being overwhelmed. She's the author of 250 00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: the New York Times best selling book over Work, Love 251 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,040 Speaker 1: and Play When No One Has the Time, And it's 252 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 1: really a book about time pressure, gender expectations, and the 253 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 1: overwhelm of modern life. So we're so happy to have 254 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:17,120 Speaker 1: her here today. High Bridget, Hi, great to meet you. 255 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: Do you know that I've read your Guardian piece multiple 256 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: times from two thousand and nineteen. You know it's so 257 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,400 Speaker 1: funny about that pieces. It keeps showing up on Twitter, 258 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: like from all around the world, and that peace came 259 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: out of such a moment of frustration. And I tried 260 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 1: to write it for a year, and every time I 261 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: went to sit down, I was like, mom, can you 262 00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 1: do this? I thought it was like a cosmic joke 263 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: that I couldn't even find the time to write that piece. 264 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 1: And for our listeners who don't know it, can you 265 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about what the article it 266 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 1: was Bridget that went so viral. So I'm a journalist 267 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: and a writer and spent most of my career at 268 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: the Washington Post, and I kind of fell into writing 269 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: about time and women and work life issues that resulted 270 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,480 Speaker 1: in this book called Overwhelmed, Work, Glove, and Play. When 271 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: no one has the time really thinking about women and time. 272 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:08,560 Speaker 1: And I'm working at the Better Life Lab and there's 273 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:10,920 Speaker 1: a kind of a million balls in the air, but 274 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: my identity is always as a writer first, and I 275 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 1: was feeling just this real pain that I didn't have time. 276 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: I wasn't making the time to write and create and think. 277 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:25,840 Speaker 1: And so somebody at a conference said, oh, you should 278 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: read this book about how the great artists made time. 279 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: Maybe that can give you some advice. So I read 280 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,680 Speaker 1: this book. I got it for myself for Christmas. This 281 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: was going to be like the key for me to 282 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,760 Speaker 1: understand how I could make more time to be creative 283 00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: and write. And I started reading and they were really interesting. 284 00:17:45,320 --> 00:17:47,160 Speaker 1: They were sort of the back stories of a lot 285 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:50,960 Speaker 1: of great artists. But about ten pages in and I 286 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: just started getting really kissed off because just about every 287 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: single artist was a man. And it's like the writer 288 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: he didn't even understand the picture that he was painting, 289 00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:05,120 Speaker 1: you know. He talked about Freud and how he had 290 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 1: all of this time and space to think, and part 291 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 1: of it was because his wife laid out his clothes 292 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,359 Speaker 1: every morning and even put his toothpaste on his toothbrush, 293 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: you know. And they talked about Gustaf Mahler, and you know, 294 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: he was married to this young, really up and coming composer, 295 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,760 Speaker 1: but he wanted her to walk with him while he 296 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,239 Speaker 1: thought about music, and he didn't want her to make 297 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: a sound, and she wasn't allowed to create, or you know, 298 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: her whole purpose was to help him create. The more 299 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:40,120 Speaker 1: and more I read these pieces, the angry and angrier 300 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 1: I got because it was such a reflection to me 301 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 1: about how women have never had this kind of space 302 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: or time to create and think that that's considered selfish. 303 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 1: We talk about me time as if it's something that 304 00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 1: only weak, stupid people would want, and a woman's work 305 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: is never done. And so it may me angry that 306 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,080 Speaker 1: the author couldn't even see that the men were able 307 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 1: to have this space and they were able to really 308 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,199 Speaker 1: have this wonderful full family life and the women, for 309 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: the most part, we're not. And it was sort of 310 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 1: one more indication to me of how we just don't 311 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 1: get it. Women have never had a history or culture 312 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: of having time to themselves, And I just thought, what 313 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: have we lost? Wherever you sat on the gender spectrum, 314 00:19:29,960 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: we all deserve time to be as fully human as 315 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: we are. All time is crazy equal, and you are 316 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:41,680 Speaker 1: our leader and fearless warrior. And I will just reflect 317 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 1: on how powerful your work has been to me. A 318 00:19:45,000 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: lot of what you talked about is time choice. You know, 319 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: when Seth was coming home from work and he had 320 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: four hours after our kids went to bed too work out, 321 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 1: check powerpoints, finish a deck, b Shakespeare or Freud, or 322 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: have as time to think great. I was doing things 323 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: in service of our house until my head hit the pillow, 324 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: and um, I remember going to him and saying, I 325 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,560 Speaker 1: just want equal time choice. I want as much choice 326 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:17,680 Speaker 1: over how I used my day as you have. And 327 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 1: that is why I'm resenting you so much, because you 328 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: look so free, and I think the problem is all 329 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: the productivity researchers. Besides, you assume that we can have 330 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:33,720 Speaker 1: this uninterrupted time for deep work that is just not 331 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 1: afforded to women. You know, when you look at the 332 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: history of women's time, women have never had concentrated, uninterrupted time. 333 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:46,639 Speaker 1: Think about it. The good wife kept the children and 334 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,840 Speaker 1: everything away from the husband so that he could be 335 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: in the study. The good secretary her time was interrupted 336 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: so she could protect the boss's time. So women's time 337 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 1: has always been fragmented, interrupted, moving from thing to thing. 338 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 1: Leisure for women tends to always have this moment of 339 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 1: your checking everybody else's emotional temperature. Is everybody else having 340 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,440 Speaker 1: a good time? Did I plan this right? Somebody described 341 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,119 Speaker 1: it to me. It's like maybe you're at the pool, 342 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,919 Speaker 1: but you're like the fireman. It's not pure leisure to yourself. 343 00:21:17,119 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: And I think that's what this fight is for women 344 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,120 Speaker 1: to see that they deserve this kind of time and 345 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: to work together because your partners have to work with 346 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: you as well. Just like they need and want unstructured, 347 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: concentrated time, women need that too. And then we need 348 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: to work on these larger work systems and policy systems 349 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,040 Speaker 1: to make sure that all people have access to that. 350 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 1: You know, as I was doing research, I came across 351 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:47,639 Speaker 1: this quote. To be interrupted is to be disrespected, And 352 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: so think about it. With women's time being so interrupted 353 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: throughout all of human history, it's a sign of enormous disrespect. 354 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 1: So R. E. S. P. E c. T. It's time. 355 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: It's time for women to respect ourselves, to demand it, 356 00:22:02,680 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 1: but also for others to recognize that we deserve it. 357 00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: So indeed, is gonna ask you a couple of practical 358 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,800 Speaker 1: questions about how we can start reclaiming our time. But 359 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: before that, I never asked you this personally. I've never 360 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: given you the toxic time quiz. I thought it would 361 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: be fun to ask you how many of these messages 362 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,840 Speaker 1: you heard in your research? I love it as long 363 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,159 Speaker 1: as you know, like full disclosure from the outset. I 364 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: may research this stuff, but I'm still working on all 365 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: of it. So how many of these messages have you 366 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:34,240 Speaker 1: heard or said to yourself? My paid hours are worth 367 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: more than your unpaid hours. It's not worth it for 368 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,120 Speaker 1: you to work. What did you do all day? Why 369 00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: are you wasting time doing that? You're so lucky you 370 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: don't have to go to work. Well, if you don't 371 00:22:48,440 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 1: have enough time and you're so overwhelmed, just get help. 372 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: I don't have time, so can you. You're a better multitaskers, 373 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: so you should just do it. My partner travels or 374 00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: goes to work early, so it's on me and the 375 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 1: time it takes me. To tell my partner what to do, 376 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: I might as well just do it myself. Yes, more 377 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 1: time for myself would be great, but I really should 378 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 1: go clean out the freezer. You know. I have to 379 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:15,639 Speaker 1: say all of them. I hear them all the time 380 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 1: still in the research that I do. I have to say, 381 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: my husband and I have been doing the awful lot 382 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:23,239 Speaker 1: of work. And it was really through the process of 383 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,160 Speaker 1: doing the research of the book that I recognized that 384 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:30,439 Speaker 1: I had to begin to respect my own time because 385 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 1: nobody else was going to. I had to learn to 386 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:37,320 Speaker 1: disrupt my own mental models of everything that I had 387 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:41,120 Speaker 1: been taught. I had a breadwinner father, distant. I work, 388 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: That's what I do. Don't bug me. And then I 389 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:46,840 Speaker 1: had a mother who she was a homemaker and drove 390 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: the car pools and did nothing on her own and 391 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: signed her checks Mrs Arthur A. Shalt Jr. It's like, 392 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 1: who is that, you know? And she started sending things 393 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: to me, Mrs Thomas M. Bowman. I started to send 394 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,119 Speaker 1: them act her saying I don't know who this is. 395 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: That is not me, you know. So I have heard 396 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: all of those messages, and they are very potent, and 397 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: they're very powerful, and they get into your psyche. So 398 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,640 Speaker 1: the first step is just to be aware that it's 399 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 1: out there and that you can make a choice. You 400 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: can choose to think differently and honest to God. Awareness, 401 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: education and recognizing that this is a choice. You know, 402 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: it's not a baby step. That's an enormous leap. If 403 00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: all you do is work between your ears, that's going 404 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:37,960 Speaker 1: to pay off because then it will come out in 405 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:41,480 Speaker 1: day to day life. So it's sort of like constantly 406 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: catching yourself. Somebody wants asked me, what's your best productivity tip, 407 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,600 Speaker 1: and I just said, compassion, because you know what, this 408 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: is hard, and you're going to screw up and your 409 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: partner's going to screw up because this is hard. We're 410 00:24:55,320 --> 00:25:00,280 Speaker 1: pushing back against centuries of status quo thinking that's really 411 00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: outdated and really painful for women and honestly for men 412 00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: and anybody across the gender spectrum. So policing you into 413 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: these very narrow roles that takes work. That's hard. So 414 00:25:12,320 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: fall down, take a breath, forgive yourself, have some compassion, 415 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 1: and begin again. I still picked up the drunk man's 416 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 1: jacket and it was on my lawn for six So 417 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: we still have a lot of work to do. But 418 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 1: it's a practice. It's a practice. I think that's the 419 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: best way to look at it. I'm working on my 420 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: next book. It's about overwork. Guess what, I'm overworking working 421 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,400 Speaker 1: on my book about overwork. I mean, I know that 422 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:39,320 Speaker 1: I know that I'm doing everything wrong. We fall down 423 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,200 Speaker 1: begin again. You know. I love that you said that 424 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,360 Speaker 1: your first step is often the hardest, but the greatest 425 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,239 Speaker 1: leap that sense of awareness. It seems like it might 426 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,080 Speaker 1: not be a lot, but it actually is a great awakening. 427 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 1: Can you talk to us a little bit more about 428 00:25:55,600 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 1: what people can do to feel the greatest sense of 429 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: equity or not feeling as overwhelmed as your book suggests. Yeah, 430 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 1: so a couple of things. So when it comes to 431 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: that sense of time to yourself, the sense that you 432 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: don't have to be the one that does everything at home. 433 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: I was really struck by this one study that was 434 00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: done back in the nineties asking women across the globe 435 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,080 Speaker 1: about leisure time and what do you do or what 436 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 1: do you deserve? And what so struck me is that 437 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 1: it didn't matter what country it was, how old the 438 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 1: women were, what your religion was, Almost two have one 439 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,679 Speaker 1: every single woman in this study said, I feel like 440 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 1: I don't deserve time to myself. I have to earn it, 441 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: and the only way to earn it is to get 442 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: to the end of a really long to do list. 443 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:51,199 Speaker 1: So I bring that up because the first step is 444 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 1: to give yourself permission to let that go, give yourself 445 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:00,239 Speaker 1: permission to recognize you don't need to earn it. And 446 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 1: once you make that switch that it's important that you 447 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:06,159 Speaker 1: deserve it, that it's okay, that you don't need to 448 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,840 Speaker 1: feel guilty or ashamed. There's lots of really great strategies, 449 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,399 Speaker 1: and the easiest one is thinking about it as a 450 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: practice and putting time in your calendar. So you want 451 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:19,360 Speaker 1: time to learn how to play the guitar, Okay, can 452 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 1: you find thirty minutes on a Saturday on a Tuesday 453 00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 1: evening and put it in your calendar. Let everybody around 454 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 1: you know so that they'll support you. And if they 455 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:30,479 Speaker 1: see you clean out the fridge, it's like, you know, Hey, 456 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:32,320 Speaker 1: wasn't this the time you were going to try to 457 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: learn how to play the piano or watch this Ted talk? 458 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,120 Speaker 1: You wanted let people know what's important to you, get 459 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: their support because sometimes it's hard. We can feel guilty 460 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:46,720 Speaker 1: or selfish. Get people on board and practice it. The 461 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: other sort of great advice that I got was start small. 462 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,240 Speaker 1: Don't think that you're going to completely rewrite your calendar 463 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: next week. Put on a timer and do something that 464 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,080 Speaker 1: that might be fun, that your soul might be calling 465 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,760 Speaker 1: out for. And sometimes we don't do that because we 466 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,120 Speaker 1: don't know. We get so busy, we don't really know 467 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 1: what we want. When I've talked to leisure researchers, that's 468 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:09,719 Speaker 1: the one thing that they'll say, like people tend to 469 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,760 Speaker 1: not enjoy their vacations because they don't take the time 470 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,399 Speaker 1: beforehand to think what do I really need? And what 471 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,879 Speaker 1: their research has found is that if you take just 472 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 1: like ten minutes before you plan a vacation and just 473 00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 1: take that breath and think, what do I really want? 474 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: You know, do I want to go swimming outside? Do 475 00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:29,800 Speaker 1: I want to make sure that I connect with certain people? 476 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: Kind of get in touch with your own intuition, and 477 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 1: then proactively say, Okay, this is what I'm going to 478 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: use this time for. So take that pause to figure 479 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: out what it is you really want and then kind 480 00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: of create that schedule or that time or that expectation 481 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: that you'll have it. You can't manage time. You can't. 482 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 1: What you can manage are your expectations, and you can 483 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: manage your priorities for what you do in time. The 484 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:58,240 Speaker 1: last thing I'll say about that is in the United 485 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,360 Speaker 1: States and women in particular, we think of about it's 486 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:02,520 Speaker 1: like a pantry and you just got to cram all 487 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: this stuff in there, and then we get all these kudos. 488 00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: Look at how busy I am. Look at all this 489 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 1: amazing stuff I crammed onto my calendar. Rather than think 490 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: about that cramming and kind of busy treadmill, think about 491 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: your time and your schedule like an art gallery. Very mindfully. 492 00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: Choose those beautiful paintings that you want to spend time 493 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: looking out or dealing with. And then in between the paintings, 494 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: give yourself some white space to recover, to reflect, to prepare. 495 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,480 Speaker 1: Don't think about going from one thing to the next, 496 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,400 Speaker 1: to the next to the next. And there are days 497 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,959 Speaker 1: that we do get into code red. No matter no 498 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:40,720 Speaker 1: matter what you want, you know what you try. But 499 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:42,920 Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be like that every day. You 500 00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 1: can recognize that there are choices that you can make 501 00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: so that you'll have more energy when code red does come, 502 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: and then you can give yourself the permission to have 503 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: a code green the next day. Our culture does not 504 00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: make it easy, there's no doubt about that. But the 505 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: thing about practice is the more you do it, the 506 00:30:01,160 --> 00:30:04,160 Speaker 1: better you get at it. And it all begins, as 507 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:05,959 Speaker 1: you said, with being able to take agency in our 508 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 1: own lives in the midst of these messy systems. So 509 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: thank you for giving us that ability to give ourselves 510 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: the compassion to make it a practice. Thank you for 511 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: your advice and wisdom. Bridget Oh well, thank you, thank 512 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: you all for thank you both for doing this and 513 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 1: for really keeping these conversations going. Hi, it's me Eve, 514 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: and I want to tell you about my latest book, 515 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,800 Speaker 1: Find Your Unicorn Space. So you're playing fair and have 516 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: established equity in your home, but now what it's time 517 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,840 Speaker 1: to find your Unicorn Space. My new book will help 518 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,400 Speaker 1: you set personal goals, rediscover your interests, and reclaim the 519 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: creative expression of self that makes you uniquely you. Find 520 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 1: your Unicorn Space is a mix of research space, how 521 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: to advice, and big picture inspirational thinking. I hope it 522 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,840 Speaker 1: can show you a clear path to reclaim your permission 523 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 1: to be unavailable and manifest your own unicorn space. Find 524 00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: your Unicorn Space is available now wherever books are sold. 525 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: So every episode of this podcast will be ending with 526 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:24,880 Speaker 1: an action atem for you are listeners that we call 527 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: a time out. This is really a time for you 528 00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,760 Speaker 1: to focus on yourself and reflect on what you're hearing today. 529 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: And we're starting the conversation first with ourselves and then 530 00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: ultimately with our partners and others. I think Bridget has 531 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 1: some important wisdom for us here a d D, and 532 00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,480 Speaker 1: especially in this idea around having it all does not 533 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: mean doing it all. And for me, when she talks 534 00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:56,120 Speaker 1: about a crowded pantry, I feel like in that pantry 535 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 1: are societal expectations. Things that we do by de fault, 536 00:32:01,320 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: all the extra unpaid labor that possibly we should be 537 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:10,360 Speaker 1: distributing to. Our partners are roommates, our parents are colleagues, 538 00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: and so I want to take a page from Bridget 539 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 1: and start thinking about how our lives can look more 540 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,960 Speaker 1: like art galleries and less like stale pantries. And I'll 541 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: start with what I want to throw out. For me, 542 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: it's a lot of societal expectations around gratitude, and so 543 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: the first one would be thank you notes I hate 544 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: writing them. I love gratitude, but not in that way, 545 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: and so I'm done. I'm going to figure out how 546 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 1: to express gratitude in a way that's simpler and easier 547 00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 1: for me than write handwriting and stamping thank you notes. 548 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,560 Speaker 1: You know. In reflecting on Bridget's work, I've thought a 549 00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: lot about my to do list, and in medicine, when 550 00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: we're seeing our patients in the hospital, to do list 551 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 1: is literally what gets us through the day, and I 552 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:05,520 Speaker 1: am a master of to do lists. But what's happened 553 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: over the years is that life has gotten complicated. You 554 00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:11,080 Speaker 1: get married, you have kids, you have more and more 555 00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,120 Speaker 1: work responsibilities, so that to do list just grows and grows, 556 00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:19,200 Speaker 1: and what once was a four to ten box checklist 557 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,920 Speaker 1: now becomes a to do list of thirty items that 558 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: you absolutely can't get done in a day. So for me, 559 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 1: also in reframing bridgets lessons of moving from a pantry 560 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: to art gallery, I'm going to really think about my 561 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,520 Speaker 1: to do list and instead of focusing on what do 562 00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 1: I need to do this week or this month, just 563 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,600 Speaker 1: focus on the day and the rest of the stuff 564 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,320 Speaker 1: can all wait. And so in this week's time out, 565 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: we would love for you to think a little bit 566 00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 1: more deeply about what's crowding your pantry and how you 567 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:58,520 Speaker 1: can streamline that into a beautiful, curated art gallery with 568 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: lots of works of art, but also plenty of white space. 569 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 1: So this week we discuss why we have a time deficit, 570 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,480 Speaker 1: why we're always running up against the clock from the 571 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: moment we wake up. Now if we get that time back, though, 572 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: what do we do with it? When you have an 573 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,000 Speaker 1: extra time, when you have that white space, when your 574 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,680 Speaker 1: life is more like an art gallery and less like 575 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: an over stuff pantry, what do you even do with 576 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:31,000 Speaker 1: that found time? We like to call that unicorn space? 577 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: What makes you you and how you share it with 578 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: the world, and we're going to teach you how to 579 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: find it next week. Thank you for listening to Time Out, 580 00:34:42,680 --> 00:34:46,640 Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Podcasts and Hello Sunshine. I'm 581 00:34:46,680 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: Ev Rodsky, author of the New York Times bestseller of 582 00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: fair Play and Find your Unicorn Space. Follow me on 583 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 1: social media at ev Rodsky and learn more about our 584 00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: work at fair Play Life and I adoptor Adity Car, 585 00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: Harvard physician with a specialty and stress resilience, burnout and 586 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:07,960 Speaker 1: mental health. Follow me on social media at dr A 587 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: d D The Root Car and find out more about 588 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,600 Speaker 1: my work at doctor a d d dot com. That's 589 00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,359 Speaker 1: d R A D I t I dot com. Our 590 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine team is Amanda farrand Aaron Stover and Jennifer Yonker. 591 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,480 Speaker 1: Our I Heart Media team is Ali Perry, Jennifer Bassett 592 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: and Jessica Friendshitch. We hope you all love taking a 593 00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 1: much needed time out with us today. Listen and subscribe 594 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: to Time Out on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 595 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:36,440 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your favorite shows