WEBVTT - Fake Anastasias

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<v Speaker 1>You're listening to Hoax, a production of iHeart Podcasts.

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<v Speaker 2>Folks, it's a hug.

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<v Speaker 1>No one have seen wet us.

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<v Speaker 2>To see you there.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Hoax, a podcast about the lies we wish we're.

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<v Speaker 2>True and truths that sound like lies.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm the ghost of Danish.

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<v Speaker 2>Schwartz and I'm the evil twin of Lizzie Logan.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the show. This is very much a hoax

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<v Speaker 1>that is about lies we wish we're true.

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<v Speaker 2>Great, and you said something funny right before we started.

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<v Speaker 1>I said, this is going to be a light and

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<v Speaker 1>funny episode. There's only five instances of child.

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<v Speaker 2>Murder, barely barely.

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<v Speaker 1>Any child murder. But let's flag that if you are

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<v Speaker 1>just very sensitive to the murder of historical figures who

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<v Speaker 1>were children.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I know what this is. Yeah, No, so I

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<v Speaker 2>know what this is.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well let's just dive in. Lizzie. Have you seen

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<v Speaker 1>the blue movie Anastasia? People always think it's a Disney

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<v Speaker 1>movie Fox Disney did by Fox, so technically it is

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<v Speaker 1>now a Disney movie. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think we did we or did we not

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<v Speaker 2>talk about it on a bonus episode of Noble Blood.

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<v Speaker 2>We maybe have this is so I think we've talked

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<v Speaker 2>about it.

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<v Speaker 1>I love this topic. Yes, and I'm very grateful to

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<v Speaker 1>Hoax because the thing is on Noble Blood. I talk

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<v Speaker 1>about real history, yeah, and this episode is giving me

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<v Speaker 1>a very fun opportunity to talk about some not real history.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and I think this is one of those like

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<v Speaker 2>this is just like such data shit because not only

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<v Speaker 2>is it real history, fake history, animation history, like all

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<v Speaker 2>of those things, it's also one of your pet pet

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<v Speaker 2>peeves in such a way that you love it because

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<v Speaker 2>you get to talk about how it's your pet, which

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<v Speaker 2>is people making what they think is a really smart

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<v Speaker 2>point that's actually not a smart point, which is people

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<v Speaker 2>popping onto the internet to be like it's so funny

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<v Speaker 2>in the movie Anastasia how they like totally leave out

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<v Speaker 2>the communism part, Like did you realize that that whole

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<v Speaker 2>opening is like historically inactionate, I'm it's like, ah, it's like,

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<v Speaker 2>oh yeah, did you realize that that movie about Restputant

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<v Speaker 2>being a wizard and there's a talking bat is historically inaccurate?

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<v Speaker 2>Like this is not the this is not the gatcha you.

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<v Speaker 1>Think it is? Internet? Yes, I love a fake gotcha.

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<v Speaker 1>Someone like feeling really smug and really smart, someone being like, hmm,

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<v Speaker 1>actually Frankenstein is the scientist.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like this movie has like Hankhazaria voicing a

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<v Speaker 2>bat like no one thinks this is a documentary if you.

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<v Speaker 1>Have not realized already we are going to be talking

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<v Speaker 1>about Anastasia or really fake hoax to Anastesia, the legacy

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<v Speaker 1>of the legacy of Antsia. Yeah, because on Noble Blood

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<v Speaker 1>at different points I have talked about the real history

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<v Speaker 1>and life of Anastasia, but I thought this podcast specifically

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<v Speaker 1>would be a very fun opportunity to go into detail

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<v Speaker 1>about the century of Anastesia related hoax that happened after

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<v Speaker 1>spoiler alert Anastasia's death not a spoiler alert for most people,

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<v Speaker 1>I think to know that Anastesia is in fact.

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<v Speaker 2>Dead well ye and died with at the same time

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<v Speaker 2>as the rest of her family. Yes, so that said

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<v Speaker 2>Annestsia Romanov to be specific.

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<v Speaker 1>To be specific, the daughter the youngest daughter of the

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<v Speaker 1>Czar Nicholas the second So for a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>historical context, just to set the scene. If you are

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<v Speaker 1>new to the story or have only seen the animated

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<v Speaker 1>movie featuring the voice of Meg Ryan and She's not

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<v Speaker 1>even a Russian. That's my fake Internet correct evils.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's her. It's John Cusa, John You Sach, Kelsey Grammer,

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<v Speaker 2>Hank is Area.

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<v Speaker 1>I think Jim Cumming.

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<v Speaker 2>I think Jim Cumming is disputant, and I want to

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<v Speaker 2>say it's not. Is it Julie Andrews? Is Is it Julian?

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<v Speaker 2>And then Bernadette Peters.

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<v Speaker 1>Bernette Peters is definitely Sophie. Oh no, Christopher Lloyd is resputant.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it's the singing voices are all different, so

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<v Speaker 2>that's why you thought of Jim coming. I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>Liz Callaway, Liz callow singing voice, Kristin Dunst Isastasia on.

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<v Speaker 2>Lacey Schebert is the singing voice for Youngionastasia s, Gretchen

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<v Speaker 2>Wieners herself, Yeah, Christopher Lloyd, Jim Cummings singing voice, Angela

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<v Speaker 2>Lansberry as her grandmother, I Dowager empress, and Bernaedette Peters,

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<v Speaker 2>Sophie Sophie. Okay, great, I mean an all star cast.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone should.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you imagine the things I would know if this

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<v Speaker 2>weren't the things that I know?

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<v Speaker 1>But thank god you do.

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<v Speaker 2>I could be a lawyer, but you.

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<v Speaker 1>Shouldn't be I could pass the bar. I hope you don't.

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<v Speaker 1>Andrea Martin plays multiple roles as an old woman at

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<v Speaker 1>train station. Yeah, the orphanage's inconsiderate owner.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, great, Well historically not in the animated movie, The

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<v Speaker 1>Russian Revolution happens in nineteen seventeen, not for magic reasons.

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<v Speaker 2>No, Zar Nicholas.

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<v Speaker 1>He was unpopular for a lot of reasons. For a

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<v Speaker 1>long time. He was known as Bloody Nicholas because there

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<v Speaker 1>was an incident about a decade before this when people

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<v Speaker 1>were bringing a petition to the palace and his soldiers

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<v Speaker 1>fired on innocent protesters, and so he was called Bloody Nicholas,

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<v Speaker 1>very unpopular. He abdicates the throne. He and his family

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<v Speaker 1>is put under house arrest quote unquote for their own safety. First,

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<v Speaker 1>in Siberia, the Bolsheviks come to power after the October Revolution,

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<v Speaker 1>and the Romana family is moved to a house in

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<v Speaker 1>Yekatrinberg near the Ural Mountains. And what's happening at this time,

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<v Speaker 1>and again we're just skating over this for background context.

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<v Speaker 1>There's still a civil war happening in Russia at the time,

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<v Speaker 1>so there's the Bolsheviks, who are known sort of as

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<v Speaker 1>the Reds, and then there's the anti Bolsheviks that is

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<v Speaker 1>kind of called the White Army. So if I say

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<v Speaker 1>the whites, I don't mean white people, although they are,

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<v Speaker 1>but I mean the Tsarist anti Bolsheviks. The family at

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<v Speaker 1>this time is Nicholas the second y Czar of Russia,

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<v Speaker 1>his wife Alexandra, who's a German princess and the granddaughter

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<v Speaker 1>of Queen Victoria, and their four daughters and one son.

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<v Speaker 1>So in terms of like the English connection, Alexandra is

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<v Speaker 1>the granddaughter of Queen Victoria and Nicholas's mom is married

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<v Speaker 1>to the grandson of Queen Victoria, so they're not actually related.

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<v Speaker 1>They're related by marriage but not by blood. His mom, Dagmar,

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<v Speaker 1>was a Danish princess and her sister, a different Danish princess,

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<v Speaker 1>married the King of.

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<v Speaker 2>England, and so this is how they're going to try

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<v Speaker 2>and get asylum in Britain. But that's not going to work.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that just does not happen. It's like a

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<v Speaker 1>very interesting historical like what if. And it's one of

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<v Speaker 1>my favorite episodes of Noble Blood because Nicholas the Second

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<v Speaker 1>was first cousins with the king of England at this time,

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<v Speaker 1>and they looked like twins, like they looked like brothers,

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<v Speaker 1>and they were very close. But the Romanovs are so

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<v Speaker 1>unpopular that it just is not a politically feasible move

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<v Speaker 1>to offer them asylum. And it actually breaks George the

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<v Speaker 1>Fifth's heart when he hears about what happens to the Romanovs.

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<v Speaker 1>He is very depressing. I think scary if you're a

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<v Speaker 1>monarch and you hear about this sort of thing happening

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<v Speaker 1>to other monarchs. But on a personal note, this is

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<v Speaker 1>like a real situation where it was like putting the

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<v Speaker 1>crown over family because he's like, well, if I bring

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<v Speaker 1>them here to England, even if I try, And then

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<v Speaker 1>there's a whole additional question about even if he tried,

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<v Speaker 1>whether he could have. But it's like if he tries,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe they would be a revolt in England and they

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<v Speaker 1>would overthrow them monarchy.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, crazy, crazy, Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So Nicholas the second, Zari Alexandra, and their four daughters, Olga, Tatiana, Maria,

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<v Speaker 1>and little Anastasia. The daughters are twenty two to seventeen

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<v Speaker 1>and the heir, the youngest son, Alexei, is thirteen. This

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<v Speaker 1>family is in this terrible house in Youkatrinberg. The conditions

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<v Speaker 1>keep getting worse and worse. There's like paper over the

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<v Speaker 1>windows because the Bolsheviks don't want anyone to see them there.

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<v Speaker 1>They're forre been from communicating with the outside world. There's

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<v Speaker 1>just like more and more soldiers. It feels like they're

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<v Speaker 1>in prison. There's also four servants with them, but like

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<v Speaker 1>also imprisoned with them or not, like to take care

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<v Speaker 1>of them. There's still a revolution happening. So the white

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<v Speaker 1>anti Bolshevik forces are marching on into Ukatrinberg. And so

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<v Speaker 1>this is a question that is still asked in history,

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<v Speaker 1>like history and don't have an answer to this. Who

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<v Speaker 1>makes this decision? To this day, like no one has

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<v Speaker 1>found any specific orders, and people have said different things

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<v Speaker 1>about who was responsible. But what we know is the

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<v Speaker 1>White army was marching on Katernberg, they were going to

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<v Speaker 1>get there soon, and someone makes a decision. And that

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<v Speaker 1>decision is that the Romanovs are woken up in the

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<v Speaker 1>middle of the night July seventeenth. They're told to put

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<v Speaker 1>on their clothes and get dressed because they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>be moved to another safe place. The children we know

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<v Speaker 1>put the kid jewels in their undergarments, which is an

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<v Speaker 1>important detail. And the family is brought into a semi

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<v Speaker 1>basement with their few servants, including their family doctor doctor Botkin,

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<v Speaker 1>which will be important later. And while they're waiting in

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<v Speaker 1>the cellar, and again they like don't know what's happening,

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<v Speaker 1>Like Alexandra asks for a chair, and then someone comes in.

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<v Speaker 1>The commandant read a statement saying that they're going to

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<v Speaker 1>be Nicholas is going to be executed, and an execution

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<v Speaker 1>squad comes in and July nineteenth, two days later, the

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<v Speaker 1>Bolsheviks announced that Zar Nicholas was shot, was executed, and

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<v Speaker 1>that his family was moved to a secret safe location.

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<v Speaker 1>That's sort of what at the time the information that is.

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<v Speaker 1>There are a few witnesses that will later say they

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<v Speaker 1>saw a train with like blocked out windows, and they're like, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I assume that the Tsarina and the children were on

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<v Speaker 1>that train. Two weeks later, the White Army comes and

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<v Speaker 1>occupies at Katrinberg and they do like a little investigation

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<v Speaker 1>to try to figure out what happens. There's a commission

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<v Speaker 1>run by this guy named Sokolov who's trying to investigate

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<v Speaker 1>what happens he does not find any of the bodies,

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<v Speaker 1>not even the Czar. But he examined this basement where

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<v Speaker 1>whatever happened happened, looks at all the blood and the evidence,

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<v Speaker 1>and he's like, I think the entire family was killed. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>He also claims that the execution of the imperial family

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<v Speaker 1>was carried out by quote, a group of Latvians led

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<v Speaker 1>by a Jew. Yeah, you can tell that from the

0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:11.360
<v Speaker 1>blood blood ladder, and I just I actually just want

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<v Speaker 1>to be clear, not not true. They actually were all

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<v Speaker 1>ethnic Russians. Okay, just that fun fact. But it doesn't matter.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, when has blaming the Jews ever not been

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<v Speaker 2>just like a go.

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<v Speaker 1>To Yeah, a Latvians led by a Jew, but he

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<v Speaker 1>was incorrect. But he doesn't even get to really finish

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<v Speaker 1>his investigation because then the Bolshevik forces return and he

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<v Speaker 1>dies of a heart attack, and then even once Soviet

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<v Speaker 1>government comes into power, they suppress his report.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So all of this is to say there is a

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<v Speaker 1>ton of disinformation happening, which is just the perfect breeding

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<v Speaker 1>ground for conspiracy theories. And on one hand, the Bolsheviks

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<v Speaker 1>at this time did not want to tell the world

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<v Speaker 1>that they killed the Czar and also his wife and children, right,

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<v Speaker 1>makes them look quite bad. It makes them look quite bad.

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<v Speaker 2>And also isn't there I mean there's like precedent for

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<v Speaker 2>sparing the family, right, because I'm thinking, correct me if

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<v Speaker 2>I'm wrong. Did they kill mari Antoinette's kids?

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<v Speaker 1>Not on purpose? They died in prison.

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<v Speaker 2>But they weren't planning, but they were they weren't executed, right,

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<v Speaker 2>And they they sent Napoleon into exile, but his kids.

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<v Speaker 1>Were well, he didn't have kids, but his nephews, yeah right, his.

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<v Speaker 2>Like the family was taken care of step son, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and like other I mean, I don't know off the

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<v Speaker 2>top of my head, a ton of executed it is

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<v Speaker 2>without precedent. But yeah, so it's like even in bloody revolutions,

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<v Speaker 2>like even super no, we got to burn the whole

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<v Speaker 2>house down.

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<v Speaker 1>People.

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<v Speaker 2>This is not like a political theory that is like

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<v Speaker 2>widely accepted that it's like, ah, well, you know your

0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:57.000
<v Speaker 2>party to the oppressors, like you got to be killed too,

0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:00.080
<v Speaker 2>Like killing kids is just like a no no for

0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:01.440
<v Speaker 2>the human race.

0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:05.240
<v Speaker 1>Correct, very bad, which is I mean why they do

0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:08.160
<v Speaker 1>not publicize yet there is a civil war happening. They

0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:13.280
<v Speaker 1>want support and if you are claiming to be morally superior,

0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.520
<v Speaker 1>and that the Tzar was a bloody oppressor you don't

0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.880
<v Speaker 1>want to be like, and we murdered his children in

0:13:19.920 --> 0:13:22.360
<v Speaker 1>a way. And this is the trigger warning part. And

0:13:22.400 --> 0:13:25.320
<v Speaker 1>I think that like historically I read about things and

0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:26.959
<v Speaker 1>now not to be like, no, I have a kid,

0:13:27.000 --> 0:13:29.600
<v Speaker 1>so I read, but like it just like in your body,

0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:33.280
<v Speaker 1>affects you emotionally, Okay, So if you don't want to

0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:37.720
<v Speaker 1>know bloody details, skip ahead like thirty seconds. But what

0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:41.120
<v Speaker 1>happened was all these the firing squad in the basement,

0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:43.720
<v Speaker 1>all of the people, even though they were signed to

0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:46.240
<v Speaker 1>kill different people, they all just wanted to shoot the czar.

0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:48.319
<v Speaker 1>Because if you're a soldier, you're like, yeah, I don't

0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:49.800
<v Speaker 1>want to shoot a k I want to shoot the czar,

0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:52.520
<v Speaker 1>the one I hate. And so they shoot the czar

0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:55.240
<v Speaker 1>and then they're screaming and panic and then a lot

0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:58.000
<v Speaker 1>of the guns backfire, and then also a lot of

0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:03.240
<v Speaker 1>the bullets ricochet off the jewel in their underwear, and

0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:06.280
<v Speaker 1>so some of the deaths are like by bayonet at

0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:10.160
<v Speaker 1>close range, like this is like a brutal way to die,

0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.760
<v Speaker 1>and like gun smoke and screaming and and there you

0:14:13.760 --> 0:14:16.120
<v Speaker 1>can come back if you don't want descriptions of the

0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:20.600
<v Speaker 1>brutal death. So it's it looks really bad. But on

0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:24.720
<v Speaker 1>the other hand, they don't want to just outright lie.

0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:27.120
<v Speaker 1>The Bolsheviks don't just want to be like, oh, but

0:14:27.160 --> 0:14:32.800
<v Speaker 1>the Czarina and children are totally safe. They're fine because

0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:36.560
<v Speaker 1>they don't want people for the White Army to rally behind.

0:14:37.160 --> 0:14:40.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I also like, presumably they can't keep that

0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.640
<v Speaker 2>up for very long, like they're not going to go

0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:45.320
<v Speaker 2>find them.

0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:47.480
<v Speaker 1>They're not going to find them. They don't exist, and

0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:51.560
<v Speaker 1>they don't want anyone to rally behind. So it is

0:14:51.600 --> 0:14:56.600
<v Speaker 1>a bad strategy. And it's also why there's so much

0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.600
<v Speaker 1>conspiracy minded thinking, because if you want to believe these

0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.720
<v Speaker 1>children are still alive, you're like, well, yeah, of course

0:15:02.800 --> 0:15:06.120
<v Speaker 1>they wouldn't say anything because they don't want, you know,

0:15:06.280 --> 0:15:08.320
<v Speaker 1>us to have a hero at a rally behind. And

0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:12.360
<v Speaker 1>also I've seen the argument it's pretty flimsy that because

0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:17.040
<v Speaker 1>Alexandra was a German princess that the Bolsheviks would have

0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.040
<v Speaker 1>wanted her as like a bargaining chip at the end

0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:21.600
<v Speaker 1>of World War One, but the war was coming to

0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:23.280
<v Speaker 1>an end, like Russia was out of the war like

0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:25.920
<v Speaker 1>that just like doesn't hold a lot of water. But

0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.760
<v Speaker 1>that's also why to this day we don't know, no

0:15:28.800 --> 0:15:33.280
<v Speaker 1>one really has taken responsibility for that order. Yeah, okay, sure,

0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:35.880
<v Speaker 1>so that's all the context. Okay, But at the time,

0:15:35.960 --> 0:15:41.320
<v Speaker 1>if you're someone alive in nineteen eighteen and you just heard, okay,

0:15:41.360 --> 0:15:41.960
<v Speaker 1>they killed.

0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:43.440
<v Speaker 2>The czar rumor in Saint Peter's.

0:15:43.440 --> 0:15:45.920
<v Speaker 1>You've heard of humber in Saint Petersburg, but you're like,

0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:49.720
<v Speaker 1>they killed the czar. They said that the queen and

0:15:49.920 --> 0:15:52.960
<v Speaker 1>her children went away to safety. Haven't heard much about that.

0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:55.480
<v Speaker 1>Maybe they're dead, who knows, Maybe.

0:15:55.240 --> 0:15:56.960
<v Speaker 2>They got knocked on the head and forgot who they were.

0:15:57.400 --> 0:15:59.960
<v Speaker 1>You don't know. Most people, I don't think are things

0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:04.480
<v Speaker 1>thinking too much about it until a few years later. Okay,

0:16:05.120 --> 0:16:09.080
<v Speaker 1>just nineteen months later, in nineteen twenty, fifteen, hundred miles away,

0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.360
<v Speaker 1>there's a young woman pulled from a canal in Berlin

0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:16.320
<v Speaker 1>after she jumped off trying to commit suicide. Okay, She's

0:16:16.360 --> 0:16:20.320
<v Speaker 1>brought to the hospital and then to Daldorf Sanitarium, where

0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.600
<v Speaker 1>she stays for two years. This woman has no memory

0:16:23.640 --> 0:16:26.480
<v Speaker 1>of who she is. She doesn't have a name, and

0:16:27.160 --> 0:16:29.760
<v Speaker 1>we've talked a lot about like pretty privilege. Yeah, she's

0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:31.000
<v Speaker 1>like a young pretty woman.

0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:31.360
<v Speaker 2>Great.

0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.720
<v Speaker 1>She appears to be about twenty. She has some scars

0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:39.200
<v Speaker 1>on her head and neck and body, suffering from partial amnesia.

0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:44.120
<v Speaker 1>Doesn't give her name, so she's kind of checked in

0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:46.560
<v Speaker 1>under the German equivalent of like Jane Doe.

0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:49.080
<v Speaker 2>She has well to think what that would be like

0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:51.800
<v Speaker 2>Heidi like nine.

0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:54.600
<v Speaker 1>I think it's just like unknown women. It's like even

0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:58.480
<v Speaker 1>more boring than that. They sort of see, they try

0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.160
<v Speaker 1>to mark, like is that a birthmark? Are their moles removed?

0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:04.960
<v Speaker 1>She speaks German but with an accent. Okay, they don't

0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:08.600
<v Speaker 1>quite know what the accent is. So for two years

0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:13.320
<v Speaker 1>she's in this sanitarium. One there's another patient in the

0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:16.280
<v Speaker 1>sanitarium who had suffered from a nervous breakdown, and her

0:17:16.359 --> 0:17:20.920
<v Speaker 1>name is Clara, and she's reading a magazine and she

0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:23.679
<v Speaker 1>she looks up at the woman across from her and

0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:28.040
<v Speaker 1>sees that this woman seems to bear a striking resemblance

0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:32.520
<v Speaker 1>to Tatiana Romanov. Okay, Tatiana was sort of the beauty

0:17:32.520 --> 0:17:33.160
<v Speaker 1>of the family.

0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:36.919
<v Speaker 2>And the striking resemblance is from a photo or a

0:17:37.080 --> 0:17:39.440
<v Speaker 2>like an oil painting, a photo there are photos.

0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:41.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know there's photos there. Which one is I'm

0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:43.800
<v Speaker 1>going to actually show you some photos. This is some

0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:44.760
<v Speaker 1>good timing I have.

0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:49.440
<v Speaker 2>Do you have a picture of Jane no name and Tatiana?

0:17:49.600 --> 0:17:53.639
<v Speaker 1>Indeed I do. Okay, So I'm looking at a picture

0:17:53.680 --> 0:17:54.919
<v Speaker 1>of the royal family.

0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:55.719
<v Speaker 2>The royal family.

0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.639
<v Speaker 1>This is Olga, this is Maria, this is Tatiana the beauty.

0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:01.000
<v Speaker 1>That's Anastasia.

0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:03.080
<v Speaker 2>They're all real pretty, but Tatiana is.

0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:05.960
<v Speaker 1>She's serving face. This is the unknown woman.

0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so they don't they don't not look alike. I

0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:15.280
<v Speaker 2>don't think they look like the same person necessarily.

0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:18.399
<v Speaker 1>I mean, she's a pretty young woman. Yeah, and this

0:18:18.560 --> 0:18:20.919
<v Speaker 1>is you know, there are other pictures of Tatiana. But

0:18:21.040 --> 0:18:24.119
<v Speaker 1>that's basically She's like, whoa, this unknown lady looks a

0:18:24.160 --> 0:18:27.879
<v Speaker 1>lot like Tatiana. This woman Clara, who had suffered the

0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:31.040
<v Speaker 1>nervous breakdown, goes to a pretty connected friend named Baron

0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Arthur von Kleist, the first Arthur of this episode. She's like,

0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:38.560
<v Speaker 1>this lady I met at Doldorf looks a lot like Tatiana.

0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:41.159
<v Speaker 1>You got, you know, some some Russian nobles. Maybe they

0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:44.960
<v Speaker 1>knew Tatiana, can you? And so he gathers up some

0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:49.240
<v Speaker 1>Russian nobles, because if you recall, the Russian Revolution happened,

0:18:49.240 --> 0:18:51.640
<v Speaker 1>and so if you were a Russian noble, you got

0:18:51.920 --> 0:18:53.760
<v Speaker 1>got the heck out of there. A lot of them

0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:59.760
<v Speaker 1>are in Berlin. Some Russian nobles identify her. They're like, whoa,

0:18:59.880 --> 0:19:03.240
<v Speaker 1>she does look like someone. I'm not one hundred percent,

0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:07.680
<v Speaker 1>but something is happening. People get the idea in her

0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:13.720
<v Speaker 1>head that she's not Tatiana, but she is in fact Anastasia.

0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:16.760
<v Speaker 2>That's so interesting that it wasn't her idea. It was

0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:21.080
<v Speaker 2>not originally her idea. Someone all these other sort of

0:19:21.160 --> 0:19:25.320
<v Speaker 2>people around her, someone in this circle of Russian expats

0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:29.520
<v Speaker 2>is like, that's not Tatiana, that's Anastasia. I mean, to

0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:32.520
<v Speaker 2>go from being suicidal to being told that you were

0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:36.560
<v Speaker 2>like the lost princess, like I would be like, yep,

0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:40.600
<v Speaker 2>haunt that I absolutely I am, and don't ever tell

0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:41.359
<v Speaker 2>me of her worlds.

0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:43.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, now if you can believe it, now some of

0:19:43.280 --> 0:19:46.800
<v Speaker 1>her memory starts coming back. She says that the scars

0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:49.320
<v Speaker 1>on her body are from the knives and bayonets of

0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:52.720
<v Speaker 1>the Bolsheviks and the massacre, and that what had happened

0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:56.040
<v Speaker 1>was she had somehow survived that and passed out, and

0:19:56.119 --> 0:19:58.439
<v Speaker 1>one of the soldiers had found her alive after the

0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:03.119
<v Speaker 1>carnage and helped her escape to the west. That baron,

0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:06.120
<v Speaker 1>Baron Arthur Vunklaist takes her in for a few months

0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:11.919
<v Speaker 1>while she kind of is meeting the Russian expat noble community.

0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:17.280
<v Speaker 1>She doesn't seem to speak Russian, which you'd imagine Anastasia would,

0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:21.400
<v Speaker 1>but so her supporters say that she had a horrible

0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.800
<v Speaker 1>trauma associated with Russian, so naturally she kind of like

0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:28.560
<v Speaker 1>doesn't want to go there. Von Cleiste's daughter testifies that

0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:31.399
<v Speaker 1>she is muttering what sounds like Polish in her speed

0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.880
<v Speaker 1>in her sleep. Some people say that she speaks quite

0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:38.040
<v Speaker 1>good English, like Anastasia would have. Some say that she

0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:40.919
<v Speaker 1>speaks English a little bit okay. Some say that she

0:20:41.000 --> 0:20:45.159
<v Speaker 1>does not speak English. So different people. Our sources on

0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:47.159
<v Speaker 1>this are people who met her at the time, and

0:20:47.200 --> 0:20:50.119
<v Speaker 1>so some are like, oh, and amazingly, this is Anastasia.

0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:52.280
<v Speaker 1>She spoke quite good English, and then some are like,

0:20:52.320 --> 0:20:54.480
<v Speaker 1>this is okay. So they just have different memories. People

0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:58.160
<v Speaker 1>have different meeting of meeting her, and some people say

0:20:58.240 --> 0:21:02.119
<v Speaker 1>that she seems intimately knowledge about Russian court and able

0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:06.600
<v Speaker 1>to name faces in photographs and identify uniforms and buildings,

0:21:07.280 --> 0:21:07.920
<v Speaker 1>which I'm.

0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:10.879
<v Speaker 2>Like getting convinced even though I know that it's not true.

0:21:11.480 --> 0:21:16.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and she has basically this full story that the

0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:20.199
<v Speaker 1>guard who rescued her his name was Alexander Tchaikovsky, that

0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:22.520
<v Speaker 1>she had given birth to his child and they had

0:21:22.560 --> 0:21:25.120
<v Speaker 1>gotten married. Then he was assassinated.

0:21:25.160 --> 0:21:25.720
<v Speaker 2>That's a lot.

0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:29.040
<v Speaker 1>And then he was assassinated in Bucharest, the infant was

0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:32.320
<v Speaker 1>put in a foundling home. She made it to Berlin.

0:21:32.480 --> 0:21:35.520
<v Speaker 1>She was trying to find Princess Irene of Prussia, who

0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.359
<v Speaker 1>would be her aunt, her mom's sister. But then she

0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:41.040
<v Speaker 1>was deserted by the person she was traveling with, and

0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:43.480
<v Speaker 1>she was so frightened and ashamed that she tried to

0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:44.359
<v Speaker 1>commit suicide.

0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that's like her story. That's a lot more than

0:21:49.240 --> 0:21:53.919
<v Speaker 2>I thought there was gonna be. Yeah, Okay, and because

0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:55.880
<v Speaker 2>a lot of that you could maybe verify.

0:21:56.080 --> 0:21:59.879
<v Speaker 1>Well, interesting you say that there is no evidence in

0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:03.320
<v Speaker 1>dependent evidence of two guards who are she said that

0:22:03.400 --> 0:22:05.600
<v Speaker 1>Tchaikovsky brothers had rescued her. Yeah.

0:22:05.600 --> 0:22:09.080
<v Speaker 2>And also you can see physically if a woman has

0:22:09.119 --> 0:22:09.680
<v Speaker 2>given birth.

0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:12.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if they're checking that. I think she

0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:15.439
<v Speaker 1>actually might have Okay, I think, I mean, actually I

0:22:15.480 --> 0:22:18.440
<v Speaker 1>know for a fact she has Okay, but the other

0:22:18.520 --> 0:22:22.240
<v Speaker 1>details of her story don't, like, uh, there aren't isn't

0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:25.040
<v Speaker 1>like corroborative heart evidence. Okay, But as it turns out

0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:29.359
<v Speaker 1>this woman has had a child. They introduce her to

0:22:29.480 --> 0:22:32.320
<v Speaker 1>Princess Irene, her aunt. Do you do you have a

0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:36.080
<v Speaker 1>guess what Princess Irene thinks. I've never met this woman

0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:39.439
<v Speaker 1>in my life. Correct, this is not my niece. I

0:22:39.480 --> 0:22:42.080
<v Speaker 1>do not know who this young woman is. But the

0:22:42.280 --> 0:22:45.560
<v Speaker 1>German Foreign Office issues an identity card to her as

0:22:45.760 --> 0:22:51.040
<v Speaker 1>Anastasia Tchaikovsky Nay Romanov. Wow, I guess they just take

0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:52.120
<v Speaker 1>your word for it.

0:22:53.040 --> 0:22:56.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I feel like, in the absence of

0:22:56.920 --> 0:23:00.760
<v Speaker 2>any other identity, the Germans are just like, ah knows,

0:23:00.840 --> 0:23:03.199
<v Speaker 2>it's a name. It's a name, because it's not like

0:23:03.280 --> 0:23:06.240
<v Speaker 2>they're issuing her like a royal title or any money.

0:23:06.359 --> 0:23:08.640
<v Speaker 2>They're just like, it's a first and last name.

0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:11.680
<v Speaker 1>Well, so, what's going to happen now at this point

0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:14.560
<v Speaker 1>is there are a lot of As we sort of

0:23:14.640 --> 0:23:17.240
<v Speaker 1>alluded to early on in the episode, there are a

0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:20.520
<v Speaker 1>lot of cousins throughout Europe, both on your mother and

0:23:20.640 --> 0:23:26.560
<v Speaker 1>father's side of you are Anastasia, and various distant cousins, uncles,

0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:29.600
<v Speaker 1>great uncles will have different opinions on whether or not

0:23:29.720 --> 0:23:32.720
<v Speaker 1>she is in fact Anastasia, and some of them think

0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:38.160
<v Speaker 1>that she is. So the mother of the Czar, the grandmamma, grandmama,

0:23:38.200 --> 0:23:39.040
<v Speaker 1>it's me Anastasia.

0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:40.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Maria Frederovna is not in Paris. She's in Copenhagen, roces

0:23:46.040 --> 0:23:50.879
<v Speaker 1>from and her daughter Olga has the Danish minister in

0:23:50.920 --> 0:23:54.679
<v Speaker 1>Berlin look into this story. They hear about her and Ara,

0:23:54.800 --> 0:23:57.600
<v Speaker 1>can you look into this? They're in Denmark. They ask

0:23:57.720 --> 0:24:00.440
<v Speaker 1>the Danish minister in Berlin to look into this, and

0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:04.359
<v Speaker 1>the minister actually pays this woman's bills for.

0:24:04.240 --> 0:24:07.600
<v Speaker 2>Three years, okay in this just in case.

0:24:07.560 --> 0:24:10.680
<v Speaker 1>Just in case. And in this period she's treated in

0:24:10.720 --> 0:24:14.200
<v Speaker 1>a sanitarium in Switzerland and one in Germany. She's sort

0:24:14.200 --> 0:24:18.439
<v Speaker 1>of in and out of mental institutions while she's being

0:24:18.640 --> 0:24:21.480
<v Speaker 1>funded by Romanov relatives.

0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:24.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, but I mean, it's not like she's really

0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:28.080
<v Speaker 2>living the high life. She's like just she's a mentally

0:24:28.119 --> 0:24:32.760
<v Speaker 2>ill woman who is getting help. So, yeah, she in nineties.

0:24:32.760 --> 0:24:34.440
<v Speaker 2>It seems like a mostly victimless cry.

0:24:34.560 --> 0:24:43.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. In nineteen twenty seven, the distant cousin, Duke George

0:24:43.160 --> 0:24:49.160
<v Speaker 1>of Luckdenburg lets her stay at cassel sillone. Yeah. This

0:24:49.200 --> 0:24:53.080
<v Speaker 1>is around the period also where she meets her biggest

0:24:53.280 --> 0:24:58.480
<v Speaker 1>lifelong ally who is Gleb Botkin. Gleb Botkin was a

0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:01.400
<v Speaker 1>childhood friend of Anna State because he was the son

0:25:01.520 --> 0:25:04.600
<v Speaker 1>of their family doctor, right, the doctor who was also

0:25:04.760 --> 0:25:06.040
<v Speaker 1>murdered in the massacre.

0:25:06.160 --> 0:25:08.560
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and he's like, oh my god, I am my

0:25:08.560 --> 0:25:09.080
<v Speaker 2>friend Mac.

0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:13.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. He meets her and is like, this is Anastasia

0:25:13.480 --> 0:25:16.280
<v Speaker 1>and I am fully convinced. His sister Tatiana also is

0:25:16.320 --> 0:25:19.879
<v Speaker 1>like fully convinced. Okay, he draw Hey, he had drawn

0:25:19.960 --> 0:25:23.879
<v Speaker 1>like caricatures with Anastasia as like all the court members

0:25:23.880 --> 0:25:27.280
<v Speaker 1>as little characters with animal heads, and he says she

0:25:27.359 --> 0:25:28.520
<v Speaker 1>identifies each one.

0:25:28.840 --> 0:25:29.560
<v Speaker 2>Cute.

0:25:30.720 --> 0:25:34.320
<v Speaker 1>He's a pretty weird guy. By the fifties, he's leading

0:25:34.320 --> 0:25:36.840
<v Speaker 1>a small religious sect in New Jersey.

0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:39.240
<v Speaker 2>Ooh, that's like just.

0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:40.159
<v Speaker 1>Being aware to a New.

0:25:40.040 --> 0:25:41.800
<v Speaker 2>Jersey very years ahead of it.

0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:43.920
<v Speaker 1>But like we're back in the twenties now.

0:25:44.200 --> 0:25:46.159
<v Speaker 2>Is this story making the news?

0:25:46.840 --> 0:25:47.080
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

0:25:47.240 --> 0:25:47.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

0:25:47.640 --> 0:25:50.520
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, like worldwide.

0:25:49.960 --> 0:25:55.000
<v Speaker 2>News, worldwide okay. In fact, as like fraud found or

0:25:55.080 --> 0:25:56.320
<v Speaker 2>princess found.

0:25:56.080 --> 0:26:00.359
<v Speaker 1>As like possible princess found okay, not as like woman

0:26:00.440 --> 0:26:01.520
<v Speaker 1>claims to be Anastasia.

0:26:01.600 --> 0:26:01.879
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:26:02.359 --> 0:26:05.959
<v Speaker 1>Another thing is during this period, more than a dozen

0:26:06.000 --> 0:26:08.280
<v Speaker 1>women will come out as Anastesia.

0:26:09.040 --> 0:26:12.800
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so kind of based on her where they're like

0:26:13.320 --> 0:26:16.120
<v Speaker 2>there's a is it like an anaesthesia gold rush where

0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:18.919
<v Speaker 2>they're like, oh, you can claim to be Anastasia or

0:26:19.000 --> 0:26:23.680
<v Speaker 2>is it because the the version that I had sort

0:26:23.720 --> 0:26:26.040
<v Speaker 2>of like learned in history class was that there was

0:26:26.080 --> 0:26:33.560
<v Speaker 2>like something unique about Anastasia's story that made her like

0:26:35.119 --> 0:26:39.880
<v Speaker 2>especially susceptible to con artists, where it was like they

0:26:39.920 --> 0:26:43.960
<v Speaker 2>never found her body. Well that's why when these people

0:26:43.960 --> 0:26:44.639
<v Speaker 2>were coming forward.

0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:47.520
<v Speaker 1>When we get to the eighties, that actually will kind

0:26:47.520 --> 0:26:48.440
<v Speaker 1>of be the case.

0:26:48.200 --> 0:26:51.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but right now it's mostly based on this one

0:26:51.520 --> 0:26:57.920
<v Speaker 2>lady who was identified by the Nervous Breakdown lady as Tatiana, and.

0:26:57.880 --> 0:27:01.200
<v Speaker 1>Then the people in Berlin were like Anastasia.

0:27:00.720 --> 0:27:03.120
<v Speaker 2>And then Anasthesia, and then that will have this sort

0:27:03.160 --> 0:27:06.720
<v Speaker 2>of ripple effect of other Anastesia want.

0:27:06.480 --> 0:27:09.680
<v Speaker 1>Of these we are also going to talk about later

0:27:09.720 --> 0:27:13.320
<v Speaker 1>in the episode, other people pretending to be other Romanov daughters.

0:27:13.320 --> 0:27:16.639
<v Speaker 2>I was about to say, like why, like it feels

0:27:16.680 --> 0:27:20.000
<v Speaker 2>like we're crowded with Anastasia's Why hasn't anyone else tried

0:27:20.040 --> 0:27:21.120
<v Speaker 2>to be like Olga?

0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:23.119
<v Speaker 1>In fact, they do, and we is kind of like

0:27:23.160 --> 0:27:26.000
<v Speaker 1>the like saying like Harris, George is my favorite beatle.

0:27:27.480 --> 0:27:29.320
<v Speaker 2>George was a great beat George is a great beatle.

0:27:29.359 --> 0:27:32.800
<v Speaker 1>You could be Olga? Why not? The reason that Anastasia

0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:35.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of captures the imagine she was the youngest, She

0:27:35.600 --> 0:27:40.159
<v Speaker 1>was the youngest, the sweetest, like very cute. This case

0:27:40.960 --> 0:27:43.760
<v Speaker 1>and this woman she has not gotten this name yet

0:27:43.760 --> 0:27:45.720
<v Speaker 1>in the story, but she's most commonly referred to as

0:27:45.720 --> 0:27:49.840
<v Speaker 1>Anna Anderson. Okay, it becomes a worldwide sensation.

0:27:50.200 --> 0:27:52.399
<v Speaker 2>There's a woman that we've been talking, yes, okay.

0:27:52.560 --> 0:27:56.200
<v Speaker 1>As we've said, is gets the most publicity. There's a

0:27:56.280 --> 0:27:59.720
<v Speaker 1>play about loosely inspired by her. I think it's like

0:27:59.800 --> 0:28:02.320
<v Speaker 1>the Amnesia and the suicide attempt, Like there's a very

0:28:02.400 --> 0:28:05.399
<v Speaker 1>romantic aspect to it. And there will be a movie

0:28:05.440 --> 0:28:08.639
<v Speaker 1>in the fifties with Ingrid Bergmann about this case. Okay,

0:28:08.760 --> 0:28:11.760
<v Speaker 1>So the movie in the fifties about this Anastasia sort

0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:15.200
<v Speaker 1>of popularizes the missing Anastasia, Princess narrative.

0:28:15.520 --> 0:28:18.240
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Okay, I'm sorry, let's go back to your timeline.

0:28:18.320 --> 0:28:20.280
<v Speaker 2>I have ten hundred questions.

0:28:20.320 --> 0:28:22.719
<v Speaker 1>Okay, yes, but I want to I want to talk

0:28:22.760 --> 0:28:23.360
<v Speaker 1>about all of them.

0:28:23.840 --> 0:28:27.719
<v Speaker 2>The movie is about what she claimed happened, where she

0:28:27.880 --> 0:28:31.119
<v Speaker 2>gets rescued and has a baby and is a missing

0:28:31.119 --> 0:28:35.520
<v Speaker 2>princess or the movie is about her having the play

0:28:35.640 --> 0:28:39.720
<v Speaker 2>and the mental hallucination of a fake identity.

0:28:40.000 --> 0:28:44.040
<v Speaker 1>The play and the movie are what the animated movie

0:28:44.080 --> 0:28:47.720
<v Speaker 1>is based on. It's about a young woman with amnesia

0:28:48.080 --> 0:28:53.920
<v Speaker 1>who opportunists sort of decide to say, like, let's pretend

0:28:53.960 --> 0:28:57.600
<v Speaker 1>she's Anastasia, and then it's like, but is she really Anastasia?

0:28:57.800 --> 0:29:02.040
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but I assume without the heart where the Russian

0:29:02.080 --> 0:29:04.760
<v Speaker 2>Empire fell because Resputant made a deal with the devil.

0:29:04.920 --> 0:29:07.640
<v Speaker 1>Yes, no, it is more grounded, no Resputant. Ok It

0:29:07.720 --> 0:29:10.760
<v Speaker 1>is like a love story, and it is like con

0:29:10.880 --> 0:29:13.680
<v Speaker 1>artists decide to use this pretty woman with amnesia for

0:29:13.720 --> 0:29:17.080
<v Speaker 1>their ends, and then it's like, oh, but is she Anastasia?

0:29:17.200 --> 0:29:17.720
<v Speaker 1>Who knows?

0:29:17.920 --> 0:29:18.280
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

0:29:18.440 --> 0:29:20.280
<v Speaker 1>And it's a movie that comes out in the fifties

0:29:20.360 --> 0:29:21.360
<v Speaker 1>with Ingrid Bergmann.

0:29:21.480 --> 0:29:22.840
<v Speaker 2>I want to watch that, Okay.

0:29:23.000 --> 0:29:24.400
<v Speaker 1>I think she wanted an Oscar for it.

0:29:24.800 --> 0:29:25.520
<v Speaker 2>I hope she did.

0:29:26.000 --> 0:29:28.960
<v Speaker 1>But back in the twenties. Great, this woman is getting

0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:34.400
<v Speaker 1>national global attention because she is claiming to be Anastasia,

0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:38.760
<v Speaker 1>with a pretty credible group of people supporting her. The

0:29:38.800 --> 0:29:42.040
<v Speaker 1>fact that Gleed Botkin was Anastasia's childhood friend, and he's like,

0:29:42.320 --> 0:29:45.800
<v Speaker 1>this is my friend Anastasia. You're like, well yeah. The

0:29:45.880 --> 0:29:50.760
<v Speaker 1>Grand Duke of Hess, who is Anastasia's uncle, her mom's brother,

0:29:51.720 --> 0:29:54.320
<v Speaker 1>does not believe any of this, and he's like, enough

0:29:54.360 --> 0:29:56.560
<v Speaker 1>is enough because relatives had kind of been paying for

0:29:56.640 --> 0:30:00.000
<v Speaker 1>her way, and he decides to hire a private investigation.

0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:03.320
<v Speaker 2>Sorry, I have like I'm interrupting you so much. Who

0:30:04.360 --> 0:30:07.080
<v Speaker 2>at any point, I mean, I know that it makes

0:30:07.120 --> 0:30:11.960
<v Speaker 2>them look bad, but at any point are the Bolsheviks

0:30:11.960 --> 0:30:13.920
<v Speaker 2>going to come out and say like, no, we killed them,

0:30:14.080 --> 0:30:14.920
<v Speaker 2>we kill them all?

0:30:15.880 --> 0:30:18.600
<v Speaker 1>No? Okay, No, they will not.

0:30:18.880 --> 0:30:19.200
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:30:19.440 --> 0:30:22.240
<v Speaker 1>Also, because that order was sort of buried, it's kind

0:30:22.240 --> 0:30:24.400
<v Speaker 1>of like a thing that there were no records of. Also,

0:30:25.400 --> 0:30:28.960
<v Speaker 1>people will say it, so individual soldiers will come forward

0:30:29.000 --> 0:30:30.920
<v Speaker 1>and be like, no, we killed them all. But people

0:30:30.920 --> 0:30:32.000
<v Speaker 1>will be like conspiracy.

0:30:32.360 --> 0:30:33.080
<v Speaker 2>Okay, okay.

0:30:34.080 --> 0:30:36.840
<v Speaker 1>The Grand Duke of Hess hires a private investigator who

0:30:36.880 --> 0:30:41.280
<v Speaker 1>investigates and publishes his findings in a newspaper on April ninth,

0:30:41.840 --> 0:30:45.840
<v Speaker 1>nineteen twenty seven. And this investigator did a very very

0:30:45.880 --> 0:30:49.479
<v Speaker 1>thorough job. He looked through photos and employment records and

0:30:49.520 --> 0:30:52.680
<v Speaker 1>missing person reports and figures out that this woman is

0:30:52.760 --> 0:30:56.840
<v Speaker 1>actually a woman named Franciska Shanchakowshka, and she was a

0:30:56.880 --> 0:31:00.719
<v Speaker 1>Polish factory worker with a history of mental mins stability.

0:31:01.800 --> 0:31:03.880
<v Speaker 1>She had a husband who was killed in World War One.

0:31:04.440 --> 0:31:07.720
<v Speaker 1>She was injured in a factory explosion in nineteen sixteen,

0:31:07.840 --> 0:31:12.200
<v Speaker 1>hence the scars. Her former landlady describes her as a

0:31:12.240 --> 0:31:15.080
<v Speaker 1>reader of romantic novels who kept a picture of the

0:31:15.120 --> 0:31:19.840
<v Speaker 1>czar's family on the dressing table. And apparently the landlady

0:31:19.960 --> 0:31:23.160
<v Speaker 1>was brought to the Bavarian castle where Anna Anderson was

0:31:23.160 --> 0:31:25.800
<v Speaker 1>staying at this point, and she screamed get her out

0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:28.680
<v Speaker 1>of here. And this is I think very funny because

0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:31.800
<v Speaker 1>this is after Princess Caribou, the second time a landlady

0:31:31.880 --> 0:31:32.960
<v Speaker 1>is ide a fake.

0:31:32.800 --> 0:31:37.080
<v Speaker 2>Princess, so it's pretty con She's known as Anna Anderson

0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:38.960
<v Speaker 2>even though her name is Francesca No.

0:31:39.080 --> 0:31:43.120
<v Speaker 1>Anna Anderson is an alias that this fake Anastasia will

0:31:43.560 --> 0:31:49.600
<v Speaker 1>is known for now like in history, she calls herself Anastasia, okay,

0:31:49.760 --> 0:31:51.840
<v Speaker 1>and all of her well, I'm just calling her Anna

0:31:51.880 --> 0:31:54.800
<v Speaker 1>Anderson to you, Lizzie Logan, because that is there's so

0:31:54.920 --> 0:31:59.640
<v Speaker 1>many different Anastasia impostors. Anna Anderson will become the alias

0:31:59.680 --> 0:32:01.320
<v Speaker 1>that the one is most famous for it.

0:32:01.480 --> 0:32:03.840
<v Speaker 2>But I'm saying in real life her name was Francesca.

0:32:03.920 --> 0:32:05.720
<v Speaker 2>In real life, her name was Francisca. I'm just trying

0:32:05.720 --> 0:32:06.280
<v Speaker 2>to keep it all straight.

0:32:06.360 --> 0:32:08.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, Francesca, Polish factory worker.

0:32:08.680 --> 0:32:09.000
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

0:32:09.600 --> 0:32:14.120
<v Speaker 1>People who are supporters of her fully dismissed the report.

0:32:14.280 --> 0:32:16.760
<v Speaker 1>They think that it is was rigged by the Hess

0:32:16.800 --> 0:32:19.960
<v Speaker 1>family because they didn't want to share the inheritance with her.

0:32:20.560 --> 0:32:23.960
<v Speaker 2>What would be left to inherit that Bolsheviks didn't just

0:32:24.000 --> 0:32:24.640
<v Speaker 2>take it all.

0:32:24.640 --> 0:32:30.560
<v Speaker 1>So they did, but they're after tenth because even the

0:32:30.600 --> 0:32:33.960
<v Speaker 1>Tsar's death was not like proven, you have to wait

0:32:33.960 --> 0:32:36.960
<v Speaker 1>ten years to claim like inheritance for like a I

0:32:36.960 --> 0:32:40.120
<v Speaker 1>don't know, a missing person whatever. And all the Soviet

0:32:40.200 --> 0:32:44.000
<v Speaker 1>property has been confiscated, but there are reports that there

0:32:44.000 --> 0:32:47.600
<v Speaker 1>are like secret Romanov bank accounts throughout Europe and they

0:32:47.600 --> 0:32:51.240
<v Speaker 1>do have you know, land and some money around Europe

0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:53.760
<v Speaker 1>that is out of the purview of the Bolsheviks. But

0:32:53.800 --> 0:32:57.000
<v Speaker 1>as we will discover, not nearly as much as people

0:32:57.040 --> 0:32:57.760
<v Speaker 1>want to believe.

0:32:58.360 --> 0:33:00.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I feel like if they had like that swaths

0:33:00.720 --> 0:33:05.400
<v Speaker 2>of money, they would have like used it to no flee.

0:33:06.120 --> 0:33:08.040
<v Speaker 1>They tried, it didn't work, okay, But again, if you

0:33:08.360 --> 0:33:11.360
<v Speaker 1>believe something, you're like, well, the you know, the Duke

0:33:11.400 --> 0:33:14.160
<v Speaker 1>of us doesn't want to share his inheritance young woman,

0:33:14.880 --> 0:33:18.240
<v Speaker 1>So they say that the report is rigged. The report

0:33:18.280 --> 0:33:22.280
<v Speaker 1>also has like skull and ear examination in comparisons to

0:33:22.360 --> 0:33:25.440
<v Speaker 1>prove that she's not anesthesia, but like that's all dubious

0:33:25.640 --> 0:33:27.800
<v Speaker 1>and like the fact that she is a Polish factory

0:33:27.800 --> 0:33:31.240
<v Speaker 1>worker is actually true. Yeah, so we're gonna focus on that.

0:33:31.920 --> 0:33:35.239
<v Speaker 1>Francisca's brother comes to visit her, and there's kind of

0:33:35.320 --> 0:33:39.600
<v Speaker 1>differing accounts to how he reacted. Some people are like, yeah,

0:33:39.640 --> 0:33:43.160
<v Speaker 1>he recognized that it was his sister, and other people

0:33:43.280 --> 0:33:47.000
<v Speaker 1>say that he just said that she had a strong

0:33:47.080 --> 0:33:51.000
<v Speaker 1>resemblance to her sister, and his family will later say

0:33:51.360 --> 0:33:54.160
<v Speaker 1>he did recognize her, but knew that her life would

0:33:54.240 --> 0:33:57.320
<v Speaker 1>be better if he didn't out her. That's like nice, sir,

0:33:57.880 --> 0:34:02.080
<v Speaker 1>He's just like what good is going to come of, Yes, fraud,

0:34:02.120 --> 0:34:04.560
<v Speaker 1>Like she's living in a castle with like rich people

0:34:04.600 --> 0:34:06.440
<v Speaker 1>supporting her. Yeah.

0:34:06.440 --> 0:34:09.239
<v Speaker 2>And I also like, you know, if you haven't seen

0:34:09.280 --> 0:34:12.719
<v Speaker 2>her in years, and she's gained some weight and she's

0:34:13.080 --> 0:34:15.839
<v Speaker 2>dressed really differently and got a haircut, maybe he's like,

0:34:16.440 --> 0:34:17.800
<v Speaker 2>you look like my sister.

0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:22.880
<v Speaker 1>But she says she's in a yeah. And later this

0:34:22.920 --> 0:34:25.000
<v Speaker 1>is in the twenties, but in ten years, in nineteen

0:34:25.080 --> 0:34:28.080
<v Speaker 1>thirty eight, the Nazis will be like, is that your sister?

0:34:28.160 --> 0:34:30.239
<v Speaker 1>And then he's like, no, the Nazis are going to

0:34:30.280 --> 0:34:31.799
<v Speaker 1>put you in jail for fraud if I say you're

0:34:31.840 --> 0:34:33.600
<v Speaker 1>my sister, So no, you're not my sister.

0:34:34.200 --> 0:34:36.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm always pro lying to not Yeah.

0:34:36.560 --> 0:34:39.120
<v Speaker 1>So that's sort of what happens like in terms of

0:34:39.760 --> 0:34:44.640
<v Speaker 1>this report comes out, which is true, Yeah, but people

0:34:44.680 --> 0:34:47.160
<v Speaker 1>have their reasons for people have their reasons for denying it.

0:34:47.200 --> 0:34:50.319
<v Speaker 1>And this is not the end of her story. So

0:34:50.440 --> 0:34:53.800
<v Speaker 1>ten years have passed at this point, late twenties, Gleb

0:34:53.880 --> 0:34:57.200
<v Speaker 1>Botkin is leading the fights to get her inheritance that

0:34:57.239 --> 0:35:00.680
<v Speaker 1>he thinks she's owed. She's the hire lawyer. They're gonna

0:35:00.960 --> 0:35:03.799
<v Speaker 1>fight it out, and she comes on this whirlwind trip

0:35:03.840 --> 0:35:07.520
<v Speaker 1>to New York City in February nineteen twenty eight, and

0:35:07.560 --> 0:35:10.360
<v Speaker 1>it's paid for by Xenia Leeds, who's like a distantly

0:35:10.400 --> 0:35:13.640
<v Speaker 1>related Russian princess, and at this point she's going by

0:35:13.640 --> 0:35:18.279
<v Speaker 1>the name Anastasia Tchaikovsky. She has a press conference where

0:35:18.320 --> 0:35:20.400
<v Speaker 1>she says that she's coming to America to have her

0:35:20.560 --> 0:35:24.239
<v Speaker 1>jaw reset because it was broken by Bolshevik soldier and

0:35:24.280 --> 0:35:27.440
<v Speaker 1>it was still out of whack. And she's traded like

0:35:27.440 --> 0:35:30.440
<v Speaker 1>a celebrity in New York City and she's staying with

0:35:31.360 --> 0:35:35.200
<v Speaker 1>Xenia Leads and going to fancy parties, but she is

0:35:35.760 --> 0:35:41.600
<v Speaker 1>still mentally unstable. She acts pretty erratically. She's kicked out

0:35:41.600 --> 0:35:44.760
<v Speaker 1>of the Leeds mansion at a certain point, possibly because

0:35:44.840 --> 0:35:47.760
<v Speaker 1>Xenia is like, I actually don't think this is Anastasia anymore.

0:35:48.000 --> 0:35:50.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean the Anadelvie vibes.

0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:52.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeh, very anadelvie vibe.

0:35:52.320 --> 0:35:58.240
<v Speaker 2>In terms of being a small time fake royalty, yes, yeah.

0:35:58.440 --> 0:36:01.080
<v Speaker 1>And she checks into a hotel when she's kicked out

0:36:01.080 --> 0:36:04.600
<v Speaker 1>of the Leeds mansion, which is actually arranged by Rachmaninov,

0:36:04.680 --> 0:36:08.280
<v Speaker 1>the pianist who has beacing friends with her as Anna Anderson,

0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:10.279
<v Speaker 1>to avoid the press, and that's how she gets her

0:36:10.320 --> 0:36:14.799
<v Speaker 1>sort of most famous alias gotcha. She and her supporters

0:36:14.840 --> 0:36:18.719
<v Speaker 1>will always refer to her as Anastasia gotcha, But for clarity,

0:36:19.160 --> 0:36:22.759
<v Speaker 1>maybe we should I'll start calling her Anna, okay, just

0:36:22.880 --> 0:36:26.399
<v Speaker 1>because that's who she is. And you know, the mother

0:36:26.480 --> 0:36:30.879
<v Speaker 1>of the czar Grandmama's Anastasia dies in nineteen twenty nine

0:36:30.880 --> 0:36:34.200
<v Speaker 1>in Copenhagen, and the rest of the family gets together

0:36:34.280 --> 0:36:36.560
<v Speaker 1>for the funeral, and they all like jointly, are like,

0:36:37.080 --> 0:36:39.040
<v Speaker 1>can we all just make a statement right now that

0:36:39.040 --> 0:36:41.560
<v Speaker 1>that lady going around talking to the press saying she's

0:36:41.560 --> 0:36:45.080
<v Speaker 1>Anastesia is not our relative, she's an impostor. And they're like, yes,

0:36:45.360 --> 0:36:49.200
<v Speaker 1>So the entire family makes a statement gotcha, or like

0:36:49.280 --> 0:36:52.640
<v Speaker 1>the most powerful inner sanctum of the family. They're still

0:36:52.680 --> 0:36:56.799
<v Speaker 1>like distant cousins who will support her. Gleb Botkin replies

0:36:56.960 --> 0:36:59.879
<v Speaker 1>to the statement with an open letter accusing them all

0:37:00.040 --> 0:37:02.160
<v Speaker 1>of trying to swindle her out of her fortune.

0:37:02.280 --> 0:37:05.200
<v Speaker 2>I love when family drama is just being aired out

0:37:05.239 --> 0:37:06.879
<v Speaker 2>in like the New York Times.

0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:10.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, she moves in nineteen twenty nine. She moves in

0:37:10.040 --> 0:37:13.399
<v Speaker 1>with a Park Avenue spinster named Annie Burr, Jennings who

0:37:14.120 --> 0:37:16.520
<v Speaker 1>it's kind of like the social like person just kind

0:37:16.520 --> 0:37:20.120
<v Speaker 1>of likes hosting someone famous. Yeah. I'm kind of also

0:37:20.160 --> 0:37:22.719
<v Speaker 1>picturing like the people at the beginning of Inside Lewyn

0:37:22.800 --> 0:37:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Davis who are just like hosting their this erratic person

0:37:26.960 --> 0:37:28.960
<v Speaker 1>just because they like that it makes them feel artsy.

0:37:29.239 --> 0:37:32.719
<v Speaker 2>I feel like this is just like a twist on

0:37:32.800 --> 0:37:33.560
<v Speaker 2>Grey Gardens.

0:37:33.680 --> 0:37:37.080
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, but again, this is not like a mentally

0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:42.799
<v Speaker 1>well woman. Yeah, she kills a pet parakeet, she tantrums, apparently,

0:37:42.960 --> 0:37:46.439
<v Speaker 1>runs naked onto the roof, and in nineteen thirty she's

0:37:46.840 --> 0:37:50.240
<v Speaker 1>forcibly admitted to a sanitarium under the name Anna Anderson.

0:37:50.400 --> 0:37:52.239
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I do feel for her. This again, this

0:37:52.360 --> 0:37:53.200
<v Speaker 2>wasn't her idea.

0:37:53.680 --> 0:37:55.319
<v Speaker 1>No, she did continue it.

0:37:55.880 --> 0:37:58.280
<v Speaker 2>No I know, but like again, like this was many

0:37:58.320 --> 0:38:03.000
<v Speaker 2>people told her this true, insisted it insisted.

0:38:03.640 --> 0:38:07.560
<v Speaker 1>In true, She's declared mentally incompetent and sent back to

0:38:07.640 --> 0:38:12.240
<v Speaker 1>Germany to another institution. When she's brought back to Europe,

0:38:12.280 --> 0:38:15.880
<v Speaker 1>this is like another Again, this case, this situation is

0:38:16.120 --> 0:38:19.120
<v Speaker 1>over decades. Like I'm just like skating through big periods

0:38:19.160 --> 0:38:22.400
<v Speaker 1>of time because the story becomes your what.

0:38:23.040 --> 0:38:30.879
<v Speaker 2>You might even say you were Russian. Listen I never

0:38:30.960 --> 0:38:32.839
<v Speaker 2>said all my jokes were gonna be good.

0:38:33.600 --> 0:38:37.160
<v Speaker 1>Uh no, it was good, thank you. But there are

0:38:37.239 --> 0:38:40.279
<v Speaker 1>various points over the decades where her story becomes like

0:38:40.440 --> 0:38:44.440
<v Speaker 1>more or less popular in the public imagination. When she

0:38:44.520 --> 0:38:46.719
<v Speaker 1>comes back to Germany, it does sort of bring more

0:38:46.719 --> 0:38:48.920
<v Speaker 1>attention to it because it's like she's back in Europe.

0:38:49.160 --> 0:38:51.719
<v Speaker 1>Her lawyers are still hard at work. It becomes the

0:38:51.840 --> 0:38:55.360
<v Speaker 1>longest running court case in German history for trying to

0:38:55.400 --> 0:39:00.719
<v Speaker 1>get her inheritance. Her lawyer is working pro bo and

0:39:00.760 --> 0:39:04.319
<v Speaker 1>I think genuinely seems to believe that she is Anastasia,

0:39:04.360 --> 0:39:06.640
<v Speaker 1>and he actually will go broke trying to find the

0:39:06.719 --> 0:39:10.840
<v Speaker 1>Romanov fortune quote unquote. And when I say that fortune,

0:39:10.880 --> 0:39:14.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm doing air quotes because her supporters claim that there's

0:39:14.560 --> 0:39:17.840
<v Speaker 1>this like Romanov deposit of twenty million gold rubles in

0:39:17.880 --> 0:39:20.960
<v Speaker 1>the Bank of England, when really kind of all there

0:39:21.040 --> 0:39:23.080
<v Speaker 1>is is like a few thousand marks in an East

0:39:23.120 --> 0:39:28.560
<v Speaker 1>Berlin bank. So we're gonna spend basically the next twenty

0:39:28.600 --> 0:39:33.920
<v Speaker 1>five years of Anna's life jumping between German towns, and

0:39:34.080 --> 0:39:38.560
<v Speaker 1>it's it's actually very sad. Quote to quote a source,

0:39:38.560 --> 0:39:42.640
<v Speaker 1>someone describes it as the drab, dependent life that Francisca

0:39:42.680 --> 0:39:46.520
<v Speaker 1>had hoped to escape, and like I said, there are

0:39:46.560 --> 0:39:49.799
<v Speaker 1>still some distant cousins who do support her. But then

0:39:49.840 --> 0:39:52.960
<v Speaker 1>it sort of becomes this inter family drama, like there's

0:39:53.000 --> 0:39:56.000
<v Speaker 1>the Cassel branch of the House of hess that does

0:39:56.040 --> 0:40:00.720
<v Speaker 1>support her, but mostly just as a fuck you because

0:40:00.719 --> 0:40:04.240
<v Speaker 1>they're in a feud with the Darmstad branch of the family,

0:40:04.880 --> 0:40:06.600
<v Speaker 1>so they kind of use her as a pawn in

0:40:06.640 --> 0:40:11.759
<v Speaker 1>this family feud of the Hesses. Frederick of Saxe Altenberg

0:40:11.880 --> 0:40:15.879
<v Speaker 1>helps her across the border during the Soviet occupation. She's

0:40:15.920 --> 0:40:18.319
<v Speaker 1>moved to the French occupation zone during World War Two.

0:40:19.239 --> 0:40:22.840
<v Speaker 1>After World War Two, she eventually settles in a former

0:40:23.120 --> 0:40:25.600
<v Speaker 1>army barracks in a small village at the edge of

0:40:25.680 --> 0:40:29.760
<v Speaker 1>the Black Forest and becomes like a reclose surrounded by cats,

0:40:30.239 --> 0:40:34.480
<v Speaker 1>kind of like a tourist attraction. The French play Anastasia

0:40:34.480 --> 0:40:37.840
<v Speaker 1>debuts in nineteen fifty four, the movie comes out nineteen

0:40:37.880 --> 0:40:40.800
<v Speaker 1>fifty six, ingrid Bergmann does in fact win an oscar,

0:40:41.880 --> 0:40:45.399
<v Speaker 1>and then the story, like because of the movie, has

0:40:45.440 --> 0:40:49.880
<v Speaker 1>another like little jolt of popularity. I found an article

0:40:49.880 --> 0:40:53.200
<v Speaker 1>from The New York Times in nineteen fifty eight which

0:40:53.280 --> 0:40:57.440
<v Speaker 1>described her as quote, wasted by tuberculosis, living in the

0:40:57.440 --> 0:41:01.120
<v Speaker 1>Black Forest in poverty, still suing in Hamburg civil court

0:41:01.160 --> 0:41:04.600
<v Speaker 1>for legal recognition, which she is never going to get

0:41:04.640 --> 0:41:06.759
<v Speaker 1>because the burden of proof is on her, and then

0:41:06.840 --> 0:41:09.600
<v Speaker 1>by the late fifties a lot of witnesses are dead.

0:41:09.800 --> 0:41:10.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:41:10.760 --> 0:41:14.520
<v Speaker 1>So if the sort of end of the German run

0:41:14.560 --> 0:41:17.120
<v Speaker 1>of her story is she's found unconscious one day in

0:41:17.120 --> 0:41:22.160
<v Speaker 1>her cottage, the cottage had become like very derelict, like horror,

0:41:22.200 --> 0:41:25.360
<v Speaker 1>like falling apart. She has an Irish wolf found in

0:41:25.480 --> 0:41:30.560
<v Speaker 1>sixty cats. When she's brought to the hospital, the prince

0:41:30.560 --> 0:41:33.360
<v Speaker 1>whose property it is begins cleaning up her wolf found

0:41:33.360 --> 0:41:38.080
<v Speaker 1>and cats are euthanized, and she is furious. And it's

0:41:38.120 --> 0:41:40.719
<v Speaker 1>at this point that Gleb Botkin says, come with me

0:41:40.800 --> 0:41:43.640
<v Speaker 1>to America. He's living in America at this point he says,

0:41:43.640 --> 0:41:44.640
<v Speaker 1>come to America.

0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:46.600
<v Speaker 2>In Jersey running a small religious sect.

0:41:46.719 --> 0:41:51.919
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but in nineteen sixty eight she comes with Gleb

0:41:51.960 --> 0:41:55.040
<v Speaker 1>Botkin to America and then right before her visa expires,

0:41:55.400 --> 0:41:57.920
<v Speaker 1>she meets she doesn't me, I mean she met him,

0:41:57.960 --> 0:42:01.080
<v Speaker 1>but she marries one of Gleb's friends and J. E.

0:42:01.360 --> 0:42:05.800
<v Speaker 1>Jack Manahan who's like a local eccentric at the University

0:42:05.800 --> 0:42:09.880
<v Speaker 1>of Virginia. He's a genealogist. Oh, he's a professor.

0:42:09.920 --> 0:42:12.400
<v Speaker 2>There was I was about to say, like, is eccentric

0:42:12.560 --> 0:42:14.400
<v Speaker 2>a job you can have in a university?

0:42:14.440 --> 0:42:16.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, yes, he's also he was the son of

0:42:16.520 --> 0:42:20.320
<v Speaker 1>a dean. Okay, he's twenty years younger than her. Okay,

0:42:20.760 --> 0:42:23.759
<v Speaker 1>and the two of them just sort of live as

0:42:23.960 --> 0:42:28.400
<v Speaker 1>eccentrics in Charlottesville for a while. They have a house

0:42:28.480 --> 0:42:31.359
<v Speaker 1>on University Circle. It kind of becomes known for being

0:42:31.400 --> 0:42:34.680
<v Speaker 1>like derelict and dirty. But for a while, you know,

0:42:34.800 --> 0:42:38.920
<v Speaker 1>for like ten years, they're like kind of enjoying. I

0:42:38.960 --> 0:42:41.240
<v Speaker 1>think he kind of enjoys being like, I'm the czar's

0:42:41.280 --> 0:42:41.879
<v Speaker 1>son in law.

0:42:42.440 --> 0:42:45.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, quirky people deserve happiness too.

0:42:46.480 --> 0:42:51.240
<v Speaker 1>Yes. In nineteen seventy eight, they are fined a thousand,

0:42:51.320 --> 0:42:55.239
<v Speaker 1>seven hundred and fifty dollars for quote rat Harborridge because

0:42:55.280 --> 0:42:56.400
<v Speaker 1>their house is so messy.

0:42:57.000 --> 0:42:57.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't like that.

0:42:57.680 --> 0:43:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they just have like multiple cats and two dozen dogs.

0:43:01.080 --> 0:43:03.839
<v Speaker 1>They just you know, are driving around with them and

0:43:03.880 --> 0:43:09.280
<v Speaker 1>then the city officials find them suffering from Rocky Mountain

0:43:09.480 --> 0:43:14.719
<v Speaker 1>spotted fever, and she's committed to the psychiatric ward at

0:43:14.760 --> 0:43:18.759
<v Speaker 1>Blue Ridge Hospital. But then Jack, her husband, pulls a

0:43:18.760 --> 0:43:21.560
<v Speaker 1>big fish and abducts her from the hospital and they're

0:43:21.560 --> 0:43:24.719
<v Speaker 1>found three days later living out of their car in Amherst, Virginia.

0:43:24.960 --> 0:43:25.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh, this is sad.

0:43:26.360 --> 0:43:28.680
<v Speaker 1>And then you know she goes to at this point,

0:43:29.000 --> 0:43:32.640
<v Speaker 1>you know Anni Anderson Manahan, she goes by Anastasia Manahan

0:43:33.640 --> 0:43:36.799
<v Speaker 1>dies in nineteen eighty four at the hospital of Pneumonia.

0:43:37.520 --> 0:43:38.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, that's sad.

0:43:38.400 --> 0:43:41.439
<v Speaker 1>So she dies in the eighties. To her dying day,

0:43:41.680 --> 0:43:46.600
<v Speaker 1>people still think that she is Anastasia. There is this author,

0:43:46.840 --> 0:43:50.400
<v Speaker 1>James Blair Lovell who writes a book called Anastasia the

0:43:50.440 --> 0:43:54.040
<v Speaker 1>Lost Princess, based on you know, research and interviews with Anna.

0:43:54.760 --> 0:43:57.640
<v Speaker 1>He met her in the seventies. The book was originally

0:43:57.640 --> 0:44:01.080
<v Speaker 1>published in nineteen ninety one. It's a very interesting book

0:44:01.120 --> 0:44:03.400
<v Speaker 1>that I actually have. I ordered this book. You can

0:44:03.440 --> 0:44:05.480
<v Speaker 1>still find it. It's out of print, but it's not expensive.

0:44:05.520 --> 0:44:08.680
<v Speaker 1>It's like five hundred pages. He seems like a very

0:44:08.680 --> 0:44:12.240
<v Speaker 1>smart guy, but he is entirely one hundred percent convinced

0:44:12.239 --> 0:44:16.200
<v Speaker 1>that she is Anastasia. He is like, after meeting with

0:44:16.239 --> 0:44:19.919
<v Speaker 1>her and speaking with her, this is Anastasia. He calls

0:44:19.960 --> 0:44:21.759
<v Speaker 1>her anesthesia throughout the book.

0:44:22.160 --> 0:44:25.839
<v Speaker 2>Has So I know his book came out in ninety one. Yes,

0:44:26.719 --> 0:44:27.680
<v Speaker 2>is he still alive?

0:44:28.320 --> 0:44:30.600
<v Speaker 1>You know, I don't know. Oh, I know he is not.

0:44:30.800 --> 0:44:32.719
<v Speaker 1>And I have an interesting addendum to.

0:44:32.719 --> 0:44:36.200
<v Speaker 2>That, because things have happened since nineteen ninety one that

0:44:36.480 --> 0:44:38.160
<v Speaker 2>I wonder if they would change his mind.

0:44:38.239 --> 0:44:41.640
<v Speaker 1>Well, that's very interesting, and I can I can tell

0:44:41.680 --> 0:44:44.840
<v Speaker 1>you the answer to that is no. Okay, because my

0:44:45.080 --> 0:44:48.000
<v Speaker 1>edition of the book was published a little later, and

0:44:48.040 --> 0:44:50.680
<v Speaker 1>there's a preface in my version of the book. Okay,

0:44:51.120 --> 0:44:54.360
<v Speaker 1>So what you are alluding to is in the early

0:44:54.520 --> 0:45:00.600
<v Speaker 1>nineties something becomes feasible, which is analyzing mitochondrial DNA. Yeah.

0:45:00.800 --> 0:45:03.000
<v Speaker 1>So the difference is like nuclear DNA is like I

0:45:03.000 --> 0:45:04.719
<v Speaker 1>think what most people think of, which is like the

0:45:04.800 --> 0:45:08.239
<v Speaker 1>DNA in the nucleus, but that disintegrates pretty rapidly. Yeah,

0:45:08.360 --> 0:45:14.520
<v Speaker 1>Mitochondrial DNA stays, stays around for hundreds of years. They

0:45:14.560 --> 0:45:17.400
<v Speaker 1>figure out that they can test that, and in nineteen

0:45:17.480 --> 0:45:23.320
<v Speaker 1>ninety four, scientists use a tissue sample of Anna Anderson's

0:45:23.600 --> 0:45:28.200
<v Speaker 1>recovered from a Virginia hospital, compare it with Romanov's and

0:45:28.400 --> 0:45:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Romanov descendants, and determine that she is not a Romanov, Right,

0:45:33.239 --> 0:45:36.160
<v Speaker 1>and then they later compare it with the DNA of

0:45:36.239 --> 0:45:40.279
<v Speaker 1>the great nephew of Francisca shan Kowshka, who is the

0:45:40.320 --> 0:45:43.680
<v Speaker 1>Polish factory worker, and wouldn't you know it, the DNA

0:45:44.040 --> 0:45:46.000
<v Speaker 1>is a match, right?

0:45:46.440 --> 0:45:52.400
<v Speaker 2>And don't they also use DNA to confirm that they

0:45:52.440 --> 0:45:59.040
<v Speaker 2>have found the remains of the Czarina and all five

0:45:59.080 --> 0:45:59.760
<v Speaker 2>of their children.

0:46:00.280 --> 0:46:04.239
<v Speaker 1>So they won't actually confirm that until two thousand and seven.

0:46:04.680 --> 0:46:10.480
<v Speaker 2>Right, But again, wouldn't that then really confirm that?

0:46:11.200 --> 0:46:11.399
<v Speaker 1>Yes?

0:46:11.520 --> 0:46:15.759
<v Speaker 2>Yes, okay? But so what so tell me about this preface.

0:46:15.400 --> 0:46:17.640
<v Speaker 1>In the book the book, because the book comes after

0:46:17.920 --> 0:46:19.879
<v Speaker 1>this edition of the book that I have is after

0:46:19.920 --> 0:46:23.000
<v Speaker 1>the mitochondrial DNA, which is like, hey, she's one hundred

0:46:23.000 --> 0:46:26.400
<v Speaker 1>percent not of Romanov and she is this fat Polish

0:46:26.440 --> 0:46:29.040
<v Speaker 1>spector's lady. And the preface of the book is like

0:46:29.080 --> 0:46:32.439
<v Speaker 1>written by the publisher and it's like, so, by the way,

0:46:32.600 --> 0:46:36.279
<v Speaker 1>new information has come to light. But we talked to

0:46:36.560 --> 0:46:39.359
<v Speaker 1>you know, Jim Level. James Lovell is dead. We talked

0:46:39.400 --> 0:46:41.680
<v Speaker 1>to him. He died in nineteen ninety three, before the

0:46:41.960 --> 0:46:45.840
<v Speaker 1>year before the DNA testing. But before he died we

0:46:45.880 --> 0:46:48.400
<v Speaker 1>asked him, like, are you upset that you're going to

0:46:48.480 --> 0:46:50.959
<v Speaker 1>die before the DNA testing is done, and he goes,

0:46:51.239 --> 0:46:53.840
<v Speaker 1>I don't care if I don't see the DNA results.

0:46:53.880 --> 0:46:56.560
<v Speaker 1>I know in my heart no matter what the DNA says,

0:46:56.760 --> 0:47:00.680
<v Speaker 1>that she's Anastasia. And even the people who our true

0:47:00.680 --> 0:47:04.719
<v Speaker 1>believers are like, these DNA tests were not done perfectly.

0:47:05.040 --> 0:47:11.160
<v Speaker 1>These were contaminated samples. People who want to believe still believe. Okay,

0:47:11.600 --> 0:47:13.600
<v Speaker 1>even in the prologue it's like, so we've done these

0:47:13.680 --> 0:47:15.759
<v Speaker 1>DNA tests, but there are still questions.

0:47:17.080 --> 0:47:19.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay, that is information.

0:47:24.040 --> 0:47:28.240
<v Speaker 1>So that is the sad long life of the woman,

0:47:28.400 --> 0:47:33.000
<v Speaker 1>the claimant known as Anna Anderson, the most famous Anastasia impostor,

0:47:33.480 --> 0:47:35.880
<v Speaker 1>the one who inspired the play, the movie, and then

0:47:36.520 --> 0:47:37.960
<v Speaker 1>later the animated movie.

0:47:38.280 --> 0:47:41.520
<v Speaker 2>Loosely, Oh yeah, I mean they got like the amnesia

0:47:41.560 --> 0:47:44.279
<v Speaker 2>from her and sort of this story. I feel like

0:47:44.480 --> 0:47:48.319
<v Speaker 2>Gleb kind of inspired the John Cusack character of like

0:47:48.840 --> 0:47:52.799
<v Speaker 2>her childhood friend then links up with her later and

0:47:52.840 --> 0:47:54.080
<v Speaker 2>it's not her idea.

0:47:54.160 --> 0:47:56.560
<v Speaker 1>And there's something about like the lawsuit of like, oh

0:47:56.600 --> 0:47:59.120
<v Speaker 1>there's money in them hills if we can convince people

0:47:59.120 --> 0:48:00.160
<v Speaker 1>that she's Anastasia.

0:48:00.320 --> 0:48:04.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, elements elements of it, for sure, but like.

0:48:04.960 --> 0:48:09.120
<v Speaker 1>She's, you know, the mentally ill woman, yeah, who lives

0:48:09.120 --> 0:48:11.720
<v Speaker 1>a pretty sad life, but you know, an adventurous life.

0:48:12.560 --> 0:48:15.600
<v Speaker 2>In some ways, it gave her some like I don't know,

0:48:15.960 --> 0:48:19.000
<v Speaker 2>hope and identity and like fame.

0:48:18.719 --> 0:48:19.319
<v Speaker 1>For a little bit.

0:48:19.560 --> 0:48:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And again like I don't know, it's all very

0:48:23.640 --> 0:48:27.680
<v Speaker 2>sad that like the family that had lost so much

0:48:27.800 --> 0:48:32.400
<v Speaker 2>was then maybe like torn apart by this thing. But again,

0:48:32.560 --> 0:48:36.600
<v Speaker 2>like kind of mostly a victimless crime, Like it's not

0:48:36.640 --> 0:48:39.000
<v Speaker 2>like she snookered them for all their worth.

0:48:38.960 --> 0:48:45.719
<v Speaker 1>Especially because the closest relatives, Anastasia's grandmother was never convinced. Yeah,

0:48:45.719 --> 0:48:48.480
<v Speaker 1>and her uncle, her aunts and uncles, like the people

0:48:48.480 --> 0:48:52.359
<v Speaker 1>who were the most emotionally affected by this massacre never

0:48:53.160 --> 0:48:57.000
<v Speaker 1>were either comforted nor distraught by this. Yeah. I mean

0:48:57.040 --> 0:48:59.160
<v Speaker 1>I think they were at some point distraught by like

0:49:00.200 --> 0:49:03.120
<v Speaker 1>the press that it was like ugh, like yeah, that

0:49:03.239 --> 0:49:04.680
<v Speaker 1>might have still happened.

0:49:04.640 --> 0:49:08.760
<v Speaker 2>But like I feel like they were most distraught by

0:49:08.800 --> 0:49:12.040
<v Speaker 2>the murders, and like you're going to be distraught by

0:49:12.080 --> 0:49:12.640
<v Speaker 2>that no matter what.

0:49:12.840 --> 0:49:17.560
<v Speaker 1>So, as I mentioned, there are more than a dozen

0:49:17.880 --> 0:49:22.880
<v Speaker 1>Romanov claimants that come up in these decades. Copycats copycats

0:49:22.920 --> 0:49:27.520
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen sixty three, a woman named Eugenius Smith will

0:49:27.560 --> 0:49:30.960
<v Speaker 1>bring a manuscript to the publishers, Robert Speller and sons,

0:49:31.360 --> 0:49:35.280
<v Speaker 1>and it's a fascinating story. It's a manuscript about Anastasia

0:49:35.520 --> 0:49:38.240
<v Speaker 1>escaping from me Kathernberg, trying to make it to the west,

0:49:38.440 --> 0:49:42.400
<v Speaker 1>but then ultimately dying. And Smith says, so it's a

0:49:43.000 --> 0:49:47.399
<v Speaker 1>not a memoir because she died, Okay, she said that.

0:49:47.600 --> 0:49:50.040
<v Speaker 1>You know, in the book, anesthesia regained consciousness in the

0:49:50.160 --> 0:49:53.480
<v Speaker 1>seller was rescued by an unidentified woman who moved her

0:49:53.480 --> 0:49:56.279
<v Speaker 1>to a basement, nursed her back to health, and then

0:49:56.400 --> 0:49:59.879
<v Speaker 1>you know, was brought to the west with two men,

0:50:00.239 --> 0:50:02.680
<v Speaker 1>including one who was a soldier who had been stationed there.

0:50:03.000 --> 0:50:06.360
<v Speaker 1>And then they traveled by train and made it to Serbia.

0:50:06.719 --> 0:50:09.440
<v Speaker 1>And then the memoir ends and Eugenia Smith is like,

0:50:09.520 --> 0:50:13.680
<v Speaker 1>and unfortunately, then Anastasia died. Anastasia was a friend of mine,

0:50:14.000 --> 0:50:16.319
<v Speaker 1>a child's a friend of mine. She had told me

0:50:16.400 --> 0:50:18.879
<v Speaker 1>this story, so she had made it out. But then

0:50:18.880 --> 0:50:23.359
<v Speaker 1>she died. And the publishers are like, wow, quite write

0:50:23.400 --> 0:50:27.960
<v Speaker 1>the story. They do a polygraph test. It's nineteen sixty three.

0:50:27.960 --> 0:50:28.759
<v Speaker 1>They're doing what they can.

0:50:29.080 --> 0:50:31.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, polygraphs are all the rage in the Cold.

0:50:31.400 --> 0:50:34.880
<v Speaker 1>War, and they asked her, you know, were you a

0:50:34.960 --> 0:50:38.960
<v Speaker 1>childhood friend of Anastasia? And the polygraph is like lie,

0:50:39.040 --> 0:50:44.799
<v Speaker 1>lie lielight. But then they say are you Anastasia? And

0:50:44.880 --> 0:50:47.759
<v Speaker 1>the polygraph is like, you're telling the truth, and she

0:50:47.800 --> 0:50:49.800
<v Speaker 1>says yes. And she says yes. Well, she's like a

0:50:49.840 --> 0:50:50.359
<v Speaker 1>first dance.

0:50:50.440 --> 0:50:52.759
<v Speaker 2>I round it, like, why would she say yes if

0:50:52.800 --> 0:50:53.640
<v Speaker 2>that was not THEO?

0:50:53.840 --> 0:50:56.719
<v Speaker 1>She said, you caught me. I was trying to keep

0:50:56.719 --> 0:51:00.799
<v Speaker 1>it a secret. But it turns out I actually am Anastasia.

0:51:02.600 --> 0:51:05.920
<v Speaker 1>She didn't die after this, a fever or whatever. She

0:51:06.040 --> 0:51:09.880
<v Speaker 1>came to America. But I didn't want to say anything because,

0:51:10.000 --> 0:51:12.759
<v Speaker 1>you know, the truth is and this is actually a

0:51:12.880 --> 0:51:18.000
<v Speaker 1>very good point. The Bolsheviks killed the Romanovs, right, killed

0:51:18.040 --> 0:51:20.680
<v Speaker 1>all the people associated with the Romanovs, and even after

0:51:20.800 --> 0:51:25.160
<v Speaker 1>this family massacre killed a lot of Romanov associates still

0:51:25.160 --> 0:51:29.040
<v Speaker 1>in Russia. Sure, so if you were in Russia, you

0:51:29.080 --> 0:51:32.359
<v Speaker 1>were in danger. And if the Anastasia survived, she would

0:51:32.360 --> 0:51:34.680
<v Speaker 1>not want to be like, hey everyone, it's me Anastasia.

0:51:34.760 --> 0:51:37.719
<v Speaker 1>That would be a very dangerous thing. So the publishers

0:51:37.840 --> 0:51:40.880
<v Speaker 1>reach out to Gleb Bodkin, who this is the sixties.

0:51:40.920 --> 0:51:43.600
<v Speaker 1>He is at this point still a vocal, fervent supporter

0:51:43.640 --> 0:51:47.200
<v Speaker 1>of Anna Anderson, and he is like that lie detector

0:51:47.239 --> 0:51:49.359
<v Speaker 1>has a screw loose. You should not proceed with this

0:51:49.400 --> 0:51:52.560
<v Speaker 1>project because she's right here. She's right here. Anna Anderson

0:51:52.600 --> 0:51:59.040
<v Speaker 1>is Anastasia. The camp be too. They published it anyway.

0:51:57.400 --> 0:52:00.560
<v Speaker 2>With the ending that she's alive, and well, she's alive.

0:52:00.600 --> 0:52:01.040
<v Speaker 1>This is her.

0:52:01.280 --> 0:52:04.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh we got based on the polygraph?

0:52:04.520 --> 0:52:05.879
<v Speaker 1>Well that this is it?

0:52:05.920 --> 0:52:06.479
<v Speaker 2>Does it sell?

0:52:06.520 --> 0:52:09.799
<v Speaker 1>Well? Oh? It does. Published in nineteen sixty three, it's

0:52:09.800 --> 0:52:14.200
<v Speaker 1>called the Autobiography of hih or Her Imperial Highness, the

0:52:14.239 --> 0:52:18.279
<v Speaker 1>Grand Duchess Anastasia Nicolevna of Russia. There's an excerpt in

0:52:18.880 --> 0:52:24.719
<v Speaker 1>Life magazine. They do handwriting analysis and comparison of facial features.

0:52:25.280 --> 0:52:28.480
<v Speaker 1>People you know, reject the claim. A few people who

0:52:28.560 --> 0:52:35.160
<v Speaker 1>knew Anastasia, obviously the glad vodkan Glub's sister Tatiana, also

0:52:35.200 --> 0:52:39.960
<v Speaker 1>rejects the claim, and another like Romanov princess. Unlike Anna Anderson,

0:52:40.160 --> 0:52:43.919
<v Speaker 1>there aren't a lot of contemporary friends of the real

0:52:43.960 --> 0:52:49.440
<v Speaker 1>Anastasia who correctly identify her. But the publishers are contacted

0:52:49.480 --> 0:52:53.160
<v Speaker 1>by this man, Michael Goliniwski, who is a who was

0:52:53.239 --> 0:52:57.040
<v Speaker 1>a former Polish Army officer who was an impost claiming

0:52:57.080 --> 0:53:01.360
<v Speaker 1>to be the Tsarevich Alexey, and he's like my sister,

0:53:02.760 --> 0:53:05.319
<v Speaker 1>and the two of them are like, we found each other.

0:53:06.640 --> 0:53:10.080
<v Speaker 1>And this is from that Anna Anderson biography that James

0:53:10.200 --> 0:53:13.160
<v Speaker 1>Lovell James Blair Lovell wrote. He wrote, quote, the two

0:53:13.200 --> 0:53:17.360
<v Speaker 1>impostors tearfully embraced and affirmed one another's authenticity.

0:53:17.800 --> 0:53:22.440
<v Speaker 2>Wow, so they really in this version of history, the

0:53:22.440 --> 0:53:25.200
<v Speaker 2>Bolsheviks did a really bad job killing that family.

0:53:25.719 --> 0:53:26.560
<v Speaker 1>The kids got away.

0:53:27.280 --> 0:53:30.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know that's nice that they didn't kill

0:53:31.040 --> 0:53:33.040
<v Speaker 2>the two youngest members of the family. Yeah.

0:53:33.040 --> 0:53:36.640
<v Speaker 1>And you know that honestly is not like entirely implausible,

0:53:36.680 --> 0:53:38.879
<v Speaker 1>where you're like, these soldiers didn't want to kill these

0:53:39.080 --> 0:53:41.120
<v Speaker 1>this thirteen year old child. I mean.

0:53:43.000 --> 0:53:47.080
<v Speaker 2>I would agree, except Alexey famously ahemophiliac.

0:53:47.400 --> 0:53:47.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

0:53:48.000 --> 0:53:50.840
<v Speaker 2>One shot, that kid's done. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you

0:53:51.120 --> 0:53:52.640
<v Speaker 2>even graze him with a bullets.

0:53:54.920 --> 0:53:58.399
<v Speaker 1>I just think it's very funny that people who are like, yes,

0:53:58.520 --> 0:54:01.959
<v Speaker 1>Anna Anderson, this is Anna stay like these stupid impostors.

0:54:03.120 --> 0:54:09.520
<v Speaker 2>I yeah, although a woman who is like covered in

0:54:09.640 --> 0:54:15.360
<v Speaker 2>scars and showed up in a mental institution after trying

0:54:15.400 --> 0:54:19.000
<v Speaker 2>to kill herself only a couple years after the supposed

0:54:19.120 --> 0:54:24.400
<v Speaker 2>killing and was only told about it and looks strikingly

0:54:24.800 --> 0:54:29.920
<v Speaker 2>like her to me, that is and is in Europe.

0:54:30.080 --> 0:54:33.439
<v Speaker 2>To me, that is much more believable as your long

0:54:33.480 --> 0:54:37.000
<v Speaker 2>lost friend than this random lady with a book in

0:54:37.040 --> 0:54:42.000
<v Speaker 2>America like forty years later. Yeah, like that, Like like,

0:54:42.040 --> 0:54:44.800
<v Speaker 2>I get what you're saying of being like it's weird

0:54:44.840 --> 0:54:49.120
<v Speaker 2>to out and out believe one impostor and then be like, huh, bullshit,

0:54:49.719 --> 0:54:50.880
<v Speaker 2>my bullshit detector.

0:54:51.160 --> 0:54:53.440
<v Speaker 1>In terms of plausibility of the stories, I agree, and

0:54:53.480 --> 0:54:54.479
<v Speaker 1>Anderson much more plas.

0:54:54.680 --> 0:54:56.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, if you told me that my friend was murdered

0:54:56.800 --> 0:54:59.040
<v Speaker 2>and then someone claiming to be my friend showed up

0:54:59.120 --> 0:55:02.200
<v Speaker 2>two years later or seeming like they had just gone

0:55:02.239 --> 0:55:06.200
<v Speaker 2>through a terrible trauma both physically and mentally, I would

0:55:06.239 --> 0:55:08.319
<v Speaker 2>be like, oh my god, my friend is back. And

0:55:08.360 --> 0:55:11.359
<v Speaker 2>then if forty years after that someone showed up trying

0:55:11.400 --> 0:55:13.359
<v Speaker 2>to sell a book claiming to be my friend, I'd

0:55:13.400 --> 0:55:15.600
<v Speaker 2>be like, well, this is a person with a scam.

0:55:16.040 --> 0:55:18.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it is funny that you say that, because like, Okay,

0:55:18.840 --> 0:55:22.400
<v Speaker 1>so this woman, Eugenius Smith, we know just based on paperwork.

0:55:22.600 --> 0:55:26.280
<v Speaker 1>She was born in Austria, Hungary January twenty fifth, eighteen

0:55:26.360 --> 0:55:28.600
<v Speaker 1>ninety nine, although later she would say that she was

0:55:28.640 --> 0:55:32.640
<v Speaker 1>born on June eighteenth, nineteen oh one, Anastasia's birthday. Yeah,

0:55:32.719 --> 0:55:36.480
<v Speaker 1>she like you know, emigrated from Austria, Hungary settled in Chicago.

0:55:36.960 --> 0:55:40.680
<v Speaker 1>She was claiming pre book to be the long lost

0:55:40.719 --> 0:55:46.880
<v Speaker 1>Anastasia and staying with prominent European affiliated nobles and wealthy

0:55:46.920 --> 0:55:48.080
<v Speaker 1>people in Chicago.

0:55:48.560 --> 0:55:51.719
<v Speaker 2>Do you think that it was her plan all along

0:55:52.239 --> 0:55:57.320
<v Speaker 2>to reveal herself to be Anesthesia or did she actually

0:55:57.360 --> 0:56:00.200
<v Speaker 2>want to sell the book as friend of Anastesia.

0:56:00.400 --> 0:56:03.520
<v Speaker 1>I kind of think she was always being like, I'm Anastasia,

0:56:03.560 --> 0:56:04.000
<v Speaker 1>but it's.

0:56:03.840 --> 0:56:07.759
<v Speaker 2>A secret that's like very clever to have, like to

0:56:07.880 --> 0:56:11.400
<v Speaker 2>realize that, like part of the best ruse is to

0:56:11.520 --> 0:56:14.120
<v Speaker 2>not claim to be Anastesia, the way Anna Anderson didn't

0:56:14.120 --> 0:56:16.879
<v Speaker 2>claim to be Anastagia. She got told she was Anastesia.

0:56:17.200 --> 0:56:19.040
<v Speaker 2>So she was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna tell them

0:56:19.040 --> 0:56:20.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm a friend of Anaesthesia and I'm going to.

0:56:20.760 --> 0:56:22.640
<v Speaker 1>Make it their idea that I'm Ansthesia.

0:56:22.719 --> 0:56:24.319
<v Speaker 2>It's pretty like you're right.

0:56:24.760 --> 0:56:27.480
<v Speaker 1>And again she benefited from this when she moved to Chicago.

0:56:27.560 --> 0:56:30.520
<v Speaker 1>She was like the HouseGuest of like wealthy and prominent people,

0:56:30.560 --> 0:56:33.000
<v Speaker 1>and we like stories of her being like not a

0:56:33.040 --> 0:56:36.080
<v Speaker 1>great roommate and like throwing temper tantrums when she was

0:56:36.080 --> 0:56:37.920
<v Speaker 1>not permitted to use the family car.

0:56:38.960 --> 0:56:40.400
<v Speaker 2>Do you think that was because she thought that was

0:56:40.400 --> 0:56:41.520
<v Speaker 2>how Princess would act?

0:56:42.480 --> 0:56:44.960
<v Speaker 1>Maybe? And I also kind of think it's possible this

0:56:44.960 --> 0:56:46.040
<v Speaker 1>woman believed it.

0:56:46.920 --> 0:56:48.919
<v Speaker 2>Oh really, I don't.

0:56:49.000 --> 0:56:51.479
<v Speaker 1>I don't know, although this is where I think maybe

0:56:51.480 --> 0:56:57.000
<v Speaker 1>she didn't believe it. Anastasia's actual first cousin, Prince Rostolov Rostislav,

0:56:57.719 --> 0:57:01.799
<v Speaker 1>lived in the Chicago area. His ex wife here's the

0:57:01.840 --> 0:57:05.160
<v Speaker 1>story of Eugenius Myth going around and is like, let's

0:57:05.160 --> 0:57:09.879
<v Speaker 1>have her over for lunch. And she invites Eugenius Myth

0:57:09.920 --> 0:57:13.360
<v Speaker 1>over to lunch on multiple occasions and Smith always refuses.

0:57:13.800 --> 0:57:15.279
<v Speaker 1>She says she's too nervous.

0:57:17.560 --> 0:57:19.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's that compulsive liar thing.

0:57:19.840 --> 0:57:21.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, where it's like, I don't know, if you actually

0:57:21.720 --> 0:57:23.520
<v Speaker 1>did believe you were in Anastasia, wouldn't you be like

0:57:23.560 --> 0:57:25.280
<v Speaker 1>my cousin, Prince Rostis love.

0:57:26.560 --> 0:57:27.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:57:27.840 --> 0:57:30.439
<v Speaker 1>She dies at ninety five, lives a long life, dies

0:57:30.480 --> 0:57:34.200
<v Speaker 1>at nineteen ninety seven. Okay, this is the most interesting

0:57:34.280 --> 0:57:38.200
<v Speaker 1>thing about Eugenius Myth and the reason I'm including her

0:57:38.200 --> 0:57:41.000
<v Speaker 1>because again there's a lot of impostors. But the reason

0:57:41.040 --> 0:57:45.280
<v Speaker 1>I like her is because in twenty eighteen, after all

0:57:45.360 --> 0:57:48.840
<v Speaker 1>the DNA evidence proves that spoiler alert Anastasia is in

0:57:48.880 --> 0:57:53.360
<v Speaker 1>fact accounted for, this local gallery owner in Albany, near

0:57:53.400 --> 0:57:57.120
<v Speaker 1>where she was buried, becomes obsessed with Eugenius Myth and

0:57:57.200 --> 0:57:59.240
<v Speaker 1>self publishes a book defending.

0:57:58.880 --> 0:58:03.440
<v Speaker 2>Her, defending her actions or defending her as the real

0:58:03.480 --> 0:58:05.640
<v Speaker 2>as the real Anastasia.

0:58:06.760 --> 0:58:11.800
<v Speaker 1>So he again, this is after DNA evidence. She was

0:58:11.880 --> 0:58:16.840
<v Speaker 1>buried at the Holy Trinity, Russian Orthodox monastery near Albany,

0:58:17.120 --> 0:58:19.960
<v Speaker 1>like founded by exiled monks. I don't know why she

0:58:20.080 --> 0:58:23.280
<v Speaker 1>chose there because I don't think she was like whatever,

0:58:23.280 --> 0:58:24.680
<v Speaker 1>but it's like a Russian Orthodox church.

0:58:24.760 --> 0:58:26.520
<v Speaker 2>She believed that she was Anastasia.

0:58:26.680 --> 0:58:31.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, buried under the name, you know, Anastasia. And this

0:58:31.840 --> 0:58:35.960
<v Speaker 1>man and I'm sorry to just out this, a man

0:58:36.000 --> 0:58:38.320
<v Speaker 1>who's still alive with an Instagram. His name is John

0:58:38.360 --> 0:58:42.480
<v Speaker 1>Feibel Parker, and he becomes obsessed with her. She had

0:58:42.560 --> 0:58:47.280
<v Speaker 1>later in life, like become a painter, okay, just like whatever,

0:58:47.560 --> 0:58:52.120
<v Speaker 1>painting memories of her childhood in Russia, and he buys

0:58:52.160 --> 0:58:55.080
<v Speaker 1>all of her paintings. He's an art dealer, and he

0:58:56.240 --> 0:59:00.320
<v Speaker 1>commissions a portrait of her as this is long after

0:59:00.360 --> 0:59:04.080
<v Speaker 1>she's dead. Commissions a portrait of her as Anastasia.

0:59:05.160 --> 0:59:08.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but like as a like adult to maybe middle

0:59:08.840 --> 0:59:09.680
<v Speaker 2>aged anti.

0:59:09.800 --> 0:59:11.880
<v Speaker 1>This is the woman who painted it, smiling.

0:59:12.000 --> 0:59:14.400
<v Speaker 2>It's like as she might have been had she lived

0:59:14.440 --> 0:59:17.240
<v Speaker 2>long enough to be like an adult Romanov princess.

0:59:17.360 --> 0:59:24.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's it's Eugenia Smith present day as Anastasia. So

0:59:24.400 --> 0:59:28.400
<v Speaker 1>this is the facial analysis of Eugenia Smith and Anastasia.

0:59:29.000 --> 0:59:31.760
<v Speaker 2>I yeah, I mean they look like two ladies from

0:59:31.800 --> 0:59:33.000
<v Speaker 2>like the same part of the world.

0:59:33.200 --> 0:59:37.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Freubel Parker is so convinced that Smith is Anastesia.

0:59:37.760 --> 0:59:41.040
<v Speaker 1>He points to the gravestone as evidence. He's like the

0:59:41.040 --> 0:59:45.400
<v Speaker 1>bird the gravestone says June eighteenth, nineteen oh one, Anastasia's birthday.

0:59:45.840 --> 0:59:49.400
<v Speaker 1>And you're like, that's can put whatever you want, just

0:59:49.440 --> 0:59:53.360
<v Speaker 1>a gravestone. And he also says comparing the photographs is

0:59:53.400 --> 0:59:56.360
<v Speaker 1>his like main evidence. He's like, I did forensic analysis

0:59:56.360 --> 0:59:58.600
<v Speaker 1>on these photographs and it's the same person.

0:59:58.720 --> 1:00:02.520
<v Speaker 2>I mean they do look similar, but like in the

1:00:02.560 --> 1:00:04.920
<v Speaker 2>same way that like Katie Perry looks like Jean.

1:00:04.760 --> 1:00:08.880
<v Speaker 1>Benet and now he does, like his Instagram has just

1:00:09.000 --> 1:00:14.360
<v Speaker 1>like AI portraits of Anastasia reading his own book about Anastasia.

1:00:14.600 --> 1:00:16.520
<v Speaker 2>Oh, this is sad.

1:00:17.200 --> 1:00:18.760
<v Speaker 1>Enthralled with the story of her life.

1:00:19.800 --> 1:00:20.320
<v Speaker 2>So weird.

1:00:20.560 --> 1:00:22.240
<v Speaker 1>So but that's just to say that, like people who

1:00:22.320 --> 1:00:24.320
<v Speaker 1>want to believe it, believe it.

1:00:24.440 --> 1:00:28.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, okay, random conspiracy to be into, but I guess

1:00:28.440 --> 1:00:29.480
<v Speaker 2>it's not hurting anyone.

1:00:29.640 --> 1:00:34.000
<v Speaker 1>You had mentioned like the Anna Anderson copycats. So the

1:00:34.080 --> 1:00:37.720
<v Speaker 1>main copycat that you know, the only other case that

1:00:37.720 --> 1:00:40.280
<v Speaker 1>we're going to talk about is this woman named Marga

1:00:40.280 --> 1:00:44.080
<v Speaker 1>Boots who claimed to be Olga the oldest daughter. Okay,

1:00:44.960 --> 1:00:48.160
<v Speaker 1>which again to me is like very like George is

1:00:48.200 --> 1:00:50.800
<v Speaker 1>my favorite Beatle. Yeah, because not everyone has to be Anastasia.

1:00:50.840 --> 1:00:53.800
<v Speaker 1>But the real secret answer there's another woman who I

1:00:53.800 --> 1:00:56.560
<v Speaker 1>can't even get into, named Susannah de Groff, who claims

1:00:56.600 --> 1:00:58.160
<v Speaker 1>to be the secret fifth daughter.

1:00:58.920 --> 1:01:01.080
<v Speaker 2>Oh shut up that actually.

1:01:00.800 --> 1:01:02.520
<v Speaker 1>This Alreada had another daughter.

1:01:03.040 --> 1:01:05.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean that's just like fan fiction.

1:01:05.920 --> 1:01:10.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean, yeah, there actually is an account Alexandra lost

1:01:10.560 --> 1:01:14.000
<v Speaker 1>a baby between because she had these four daughters and

1:01:14.080 --> 1:01:16.480
<v Speaker 1>we're like, we need a son. God. Yeah, and so

1:01:16.600 --> 1:01:19.880
<v Speaker 1>like the story is like, we know historically that it's

1:01:19.920 --> 1:01:22.440
<v Speaker 1>possible that she had lost a pregnancy in between children

1:01:22.440 --> 1:01:25.200
<v Speaker 1>four and five, but it's like, what if she did

1:01:25.240 --> 1:01:27.880
<v Speaker 1>have a baby and it was another girl and they

1:01:27.880 --> 1:01:30.720
<v Speaker 1>were just like gave it to me exactly. Okay, So

1:01:30.800 --> 1:01:32.000
<v Speaker 1>that's the secret story.

1:01:32.880 --> 1:01:35.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean again, like that's a good idea for a book.

1:01:35.920 --> 1:01:37.480
<v Speaker 2>It's a good idea for her, not a good idea

1:01:37.480 --> 1:01:38.280
<v Speaker 2>for a fake identity.

1:01:38.400 --> 1:01:43.760
<v Speaker 1>Susanna Katerina de Graf missing princess. But this woman, Marga Boots,

1:01:43.760 --> 1:01:47.480
<v Speaker 1>claiming to be Olga, goes public when Anna Anderson is

1:01:47.520 --> 1:01:50.800
<v Speaker 1>big news. When Anna Anderson is taking her case to

1:01:50.840 --> 1:01:53.920
<v Speaker 1>the Hamburg courts, Boots speaks up and is like, I

1:01:54.000 --> 1:01:56.520
<v Speaker 1>never wanted to speak up. I always wanted to be

1:01:56.600 --> 1:02:00.640
<v Speaker 1>quiet about this, but I saw my sister Anastasia executed.

1:02:01.000 --> 1:02:03.880
<v Speaker 1>This is an impostor. I'm like willing to go to

1:02:03.960 --> 1:02:07.400
<v Speaker 1>court to unmask her. The two of them never met,

1:02:07.440 --> 1:02:09.720
<v Speaker 1>but she said in an interview quoted I found this

1:02:09.800 --> 1:02:13.800
<v Speaker 1>interview cited by the Saint Petersburg Times in February twelfth,

1:02:13.920 --> 1:02:17.440
<v Speaker 1>nineteen sixty quote. Now I have decided to break my

1:02:17.600 --> 1:02:20.160
<v Speaker 1>silence because I do not want the name of my

1:02:20.280 --> 1:02:24.760
<v Speaker 1>family Romanov smeared by a mystifier whom the Hamburburg Court

1:02:25.040 --> 1:02:27.440
<v Speaker 1>is apparently taking a bit too seriously.

1:02:28.200 --> 1:02:31.080
<v Speaker 2>So and did she have any other like, did she

1:02:31.240 --> 1:02:32.600
<v Speaker 2>take her story anywhere else?

1:02:33.120 --> 1:02:37.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I mean she Her claim is actually supported by

1:02:37.760 --> 1:02:43.520
<v Speaker 1>Prince Sigismund of Prussia, who actually introduced her to Nikolaus,

1:02:43.640 --> 1:02:46.440
<v Speaker 1>the Grand Duke of Oldenburg, who gave this woman financial

1:02:46.440 --> 1:02:50.320
<v Speaker 1>support until he died. You know, Prince Sigismund is convinced,

1:02:50.320 --> 1:02:53.240
<v Speaker 1>so are a few other random nobles, that she is Olga.

1:02:53.640 --> 1:02:58.360
<v Speaker 1>But for the record, Prince Sigismund of Prussia also supported

1:02:58.360 --> 1:03:01.400
<v Speaker 1>Anna Anderson's claim, which kind of makes him hard to

1:03:01.400 --> 1:03:04.520
<v Speaker 1>buys a witness because she's like, that's definitely not my sister. Yeah,

1:03:04.520 --> 1:03:07.360
<v Speaker 1>it's like you're going to believe both of them. But

1:03:07.480 --> 1:03:10.160
<v Speaker 1>she has, you know, a very similar story, which is

1:03:10.200 --> 1:03:14.120
<v Speaker 1>like a Cossack soldier had knocked her unconscious, pretended she

1:03:14.240 --> 1:03:18.200
<v Speaker 1>was dead, and replaced her corpse with a young local woman,

1:03:18.640 --> 1:03:21.800
<v Speaker 1>and then she was brought to Germany and married a

1:03:21.880 --> 1:03:25.600
<v Speaker 1>German officer in nineteen twenty six, so don't look into that,

1:03:27.000 --> 1:03:29.960
<v Speaker 1>and then like lived in Lake Cuomo Como under the

1:03:30.080 --> 1:03:33.680
<v Speaker 1>radar was and like supported by a few Romanov relatives,

1:03:33.880 --> 1:03:35.720
<v Speaker 1>which like, if you're going to do this, con that's

1:03:35.760 --> 1:03:38.720
<v Speaker 1>the way to do it. Yeah, lived under the radar.

1:03:39.320 --> 1:03:42.120
<v Speaker 1>She signed a contract to write her memoirs in Italy,

1:03:42.200 --> 1:03:45.320
<v Speaker 1>but they were never published. She died in nineteen seventy six,

1:03:45.600 --> 1:03:48.360
<v Speaker 1>but for some reason, in twenty eleven her memoirs were

1:03:48.400 --> 1:03:53.000
<v Speaker 1>published in Spain. And she's random, you know. After she died,

1:03:53.880 --> 1:03:58.400
<v Speaker 1>she was buried under the name Olga Ogle Nicolinna. You

1:03:58.400 --> 1:04:01.800
<v Speaker 1>can put anything on a grapestone. Know who she actually was, Yeah,

1:04:01.840 --> 1:04:03.560
<v Speaker 1>I think just marg Da Boots.

1:04:03.960 --> 1:04:04.840
<v Speaker 2>Oh right, you said that.

1:04:04.920 --> 1:04:08.200
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, I think that's the identity that she had been

1:04:08.240 --> 1:04:12.920
<v Speaker 1>living secretly, because she claims that when she came to Germany,

1:04:13.440 --> 1:04:17.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, and married this German officer, that she met

1:04:17.760 --> 1:04:20.960
<v Speaker 1>the Kaiser himself and he offered her financial support, but

1:04:21.040 --> 1:04:24.120
<v Speaker 1>he told her apparently, don't tell anyone who you are

1:04:24.200 --> 1:04:25.560
<v Speaker 1>for protection of your own life.

1:04:26.240 --> 1:04:29.920
<v Speaker 2>But she wasn't because we know that all the Romanovs.

1:04:30.200 --> 1:04:34.640
<v Speaker 1>So let's get into that. In nineteen seventy nine, this

1:04:34.840 --> 1:04:40.920
<v Speaker 1>geologist and amateur investigator named Alexander Evdenen discovers a burial

1:04:41.000 --> 1:04:45.160
<v Speaker 1>site outside of Katrinberg yea, and Alexander Avdenen is from

1:04:45.200 --> 1:04:48.400
<v Speaker 1>me Katrinberg, and so he kind of like the story

1:04:48.440 --> 1:04:51.520
<v Speaker 1>of the Romanov murder is sort of like in the

1:04:51.640 --> 1:04:54.320
<v Speaker 1>soil around him. He's been fascinated by it since he

1:04:54.400 --> 1:04:57.840
<v Speaker 1>was a child, and he's just an amateur investigator. And

1:04:57.880 --> 1:05:01.440
<v Speaker 1>he figures out where the bodies were buried, because again,

1:05:01.800 --> 1:05:05.360
<v Speaker 1>this was such a messy operation that this is why

1:05:05.400 --> 1:05:08.440
<v Speaker 1>there was so much information. What we know now is

1:05:08.480 --> 1:05:11.360
<v Speaker 1>that there was this like who ordered this shooting, we

1:05:11.400 --> 1:05:13.560
<v Speaker 1>don't know, but they were panicking that the Bolsheviks were

1:05:13.560 --> 1:05:15.920
<v Speaker 1>panicking because the White Army was coming. They were like,

1:05:15.960 --> 1:05:19.800
<v Speaker 1>we can't have the Romanovs still alive. Killed them all.

1:05:20.320 --> 1:05:23.000
<v Speaker 1>They brought the bodies to like a mine an abandoned

1:05:23.000 --> 1:05:25.920
<v Speaker 1>mine shaft and dumped them and then realized the abandoned

1:05:25.920 --> 1:05:29.640
<v Speaker 1>mind shaft was too shallow, took them out, doused their

1:05:29.640 --> 1:05:33.200
<v Speaker 1>bodies in acid to try to disguise them, and then

1:05:33.320 --> 1:05:34.440
<v Speaker 1>buried them in shallow graves.

1:05:34.480 --> 1:05:35.840
<v Speaker 2>Horrible, horrible bad.

1:05:36.360 --> 1:05:39.480
<v Speaker 1>Alexander abdon and figures this out. He like even finds

1:05:39.560 --> 1:05:42.400
<v Speaker 1>in the mind shaft like little piece like relics, like

1:05:43.360 --> 1:05:45.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't know jewelry or like little pieces of clothing

1:05:45.680 --> 1:05:48.440
<v Speaker 1>things that were from them. So he finds it in

1:05:48.520 --> 1:05:53.040
<v Speaker 1>nineteen seventy nine. But the thing is it's Soviet Russia

1:05:53.120 --> 1:05:56.440
<v Speaker 1>right now, yes, and the Soviets are not big fans

1:05:56.520 --> 1:06:02.000
<v Speaker 1>of the czars, right and he very intelligently, I think,

1:06:02.200 --> 1:06:05.360
<v Speaker 1>keeps his mouth shut. Yes, So he does not tell

1:06:05.440 --> 1:06:09.680
<v Speaker 1>people for ten years. Okay, literally, in nineteen eighty nine,

1:06:09.760 --> 1:06:13.760
<v Speaker 1>during like glass knot like the when like Soviet Russia's

1:06:13.800 --> 1:06:16.760
<v Speaker 1>like we're opening, you know, to the world. Nineteen eighty nine,

1:06:17.440 --> 1:06:21.320
<v Speaker 1>he tells people and there's actually professional exhumation and they

1:06:21.320 --> 1:06:26.000
<v Speaker 1>find nine bodies. So they find that's the five family members.

1:06:26.120 --> 1:06:32.600
<v Speaker 1>They find Nicholas, the Tsarina, three children, and four servants. Okay,

1:06:32.680 --> 1:06:35.000
<v Speaker 1>so I'm you don't have to do the math. You're

1:06:35.080 --> 1:06:41.360
<v Speaker 1>missing two children, right, they had five children. Well, that's interesting.

1:06:41.440 --> 1:06:44.640
<v Speaker 1>Two children are missing. Maybe in his Asia got away?

1:06:44.720 --> 1:06:47.480
<v Speaker 1>Are they? What's the jender breakdown on the kids? We're

1:06:47.480 --> 1:06:51.280
<v Speaker 1>missing one daughter and the son. Okay, maybe the you know,

1:06:51.320 --> 1:06:54.919
<v Speaker 1>Anastasian Alexei got away. Maybe Olga and Alexi got away.

1:06:55.000 --> 1:06:58.640
<v Speaker 1>Maybe Murray who knows? The bodies are exhumed the ones

1:06:58.680 --> 1:07:04.000
<v Speaker 1>they do find and because mitochondrial DNA is matrilineal, if

1:07:04.040 --> 1:07:08.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, the British royal family is patrilineal, so like

1:07:08.480 --> 1:07:12.560
<v Speaker 1>Queen Elizabeth became queen because her father was king, and

1:07:12.600 --> 1:07:17.959
<v Speaker 1>it's like by your father. But since mitochondrial DNA is matrilineal,

1:07:18.000 --> 1:07:22.560
<v Speaker 1>they actually test Prince Philip, the late husband of Queen

1:07:22.560 --> 1:07:27.200
<v Speaker 1>Elizabeth the second because he is a matrilineal descendant of Alexandra.

1:07:27.760 --> 1:07:35.320
<v Speaker 1>She is Alexandra's great nephew Okay Alexandrazarina this Arena Okay,

1:07:35.480 --> 1:07:39.280
<v Speaker 1>one of her siblings. He's the grandchild of Okay, and

1:07:39.320 --> 1:07:42.680
<v Speaker 1>so they use his DNA and they identify that the

1:07:42.760 --> 1:07:46.680
<v Speaker 1>five family members, the four servants all accounted for five

1:07:46.720 --> 1:07:49.680
<v Speaker 1>family members are in fact Romanov's, but we are missing

1:07:49.880 --> 1:07:53.600
<v Speaker 1>one of the daughters and the prince. Mystery. So now

1:07:53.680 --> 1:07:57.440
<v Speaker 1>for ten years, more than ten years, for like fifteen years,

1:07:57.800 --> 1:08:00.600
<v Speaker 1>there's the mystery of like, well, maybe Annastasa did get away,

1:08:00.920 --> 1:08:04.560
<v Speaker 1>even though we're they've tested the DNA of Anna Anderson

1:08:04.680 --> 1:08:07.280
<v Speaker 1>like the most likely Cohn and they're like the listener.

1:08:08.040 --> 1:08:12.120
<v Speaker 1>And then amateur investigators in two thousand and seven sort

1:08:12.120 --> 1:08:14.320
<v Speaker 1>of resume the dig and realized that there was like

1:08:14.320 --> 1:08:17.640
<v Speaker 1>an area about ninety meters away that hadn't been examined.

1:08:18.120 --> 1:08:22.000
<v Speaker 1>And they find two more bodies, and they identify Alexey

1:08:22.600 --> 1:08:25.000
<v Speaker 1>and one of the other bodies as a young woman,

1:08:25.400 --> 1:08:29.360
<v Speaker 1>and actually scientists believe that it's most likely Maria, which

1:08:29.400 --> 1:08:32.360
<v Speaker 1>means that they had found Anastasia all along. Okay, and

1:08:32.400 --> 1:08:36.439
<v Speaker 1>that's the truth of the story, and so hoax.

1:08:35.760 --> 1:08:38.799
<v Speaker 2>Hand for where are they now buried?

1:08:38.920 --> 1:08:41.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, they are buried in the Saint Catharine Chapel of

1:08:41.680 --> 1:08:45.160
<v Speaker 1>the Peter and Paul Cathedral in Saint Petersburg. I think

1:08:45.200 --> 1:08:48.520
<v Speaker 1>there was a move to make some of them saints

1:08:48.680 --> 1:08:53.280
<v Speaker 1>like Russian Orthodox murders, but I don't think that has happened,

1:08:53.439 --> 1:08:55.280
<v Speaker 1>to the best of my acknowledge. I think they're like

1:08:56.160 --> 1:08:59.719
<v Speaker 1>I don't mean to reveal my ignorance of the Russian

1:08:59.840 --> 1:09:02.759
<v Speaker 1>ordox Church, but like Junior sat yes.

1:09:02.920 --> 1:09:07.120
<v Speaker 2>I have no opinion on the sainthood of Russian Orthodoxy.

1:09:07.240 --> 1:09:10.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, but yes, they were buried, They are all accounted for.

1:09:11.360 --> 1:09:14.600
<v Speaker 1>None of these people are Anastasia.

1:09:14.720 --> 1:09:16.280
<v Speaker 2>But you know, we got a real good movie out

1:09:16.320 --> 1:09:16.519
<v Speaker 2>of it.

1:09:17.240 --> 1:09:18.200
<v Speaker 1>I like that too.

1:09:18.240 --> 1:09:22.000
<v Speaker 2>I haven't seen the old one, but the animated.

1:09:21.600 --> 1:09:22.720
<v Speaker 1>One and a Broadway music. Ho.

1:09:23.040 --> 1:09:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but I've heard that the Broadway musical like takes

1:09:25.400 --> 1:09:26.519
<v Speaker 2>out all the fun stuff.

1:09:26.600 --> 1:09:29.880
<v Speaker 1>Lizzie. It's so disappointing, I know. Can I tell you

1:09:29.920 --> 1:09:33.280
<v Speaker 1>what I hated about it? Please respute not in it.

1:09:33.439 --> 1:09:37.240
<v Speaker 1>I know they are like bart Bartok not in it.

1:09:37.360 --> 1:09:39.439
<v Speaker 1>Dark of the Night. Cut that song. I love that

1:09:39.960 --> 1:09:43.479
<v Speaker 1>rat song. The villain is a the son of one

1:09:43.520 --> 1:09:46.639
<v Speaker 1>of the Bolshevik soldiers who executed them. Fine, you're doing

1:09:46.680 --> 1:09:48.960
<v Speaker 1>like a grounded version. Can I tell you what the

1:09:49.080 --> 1:09:53.120
<v Speaker 1>villain's name is. His name is Gleb And I'm like, okay,

1:09:53.120 --> 1:09:56.040
<v Speaker 1>Gleb was whatever involved and that's like a real Russian name.

1:09:56.400 --> 1:09:59.680
<v Speaker 1>But she's like, Gleb, we can't do this, and I'm

1:09:59.680 --> 1:10:01.280
<v Speaker 1>like that it's not a name. You can say that

1:10:01.280 --> 1:10:07.400
<v Speaker 1>way now it does say like Victor, Yeah, sure much better.

1:10:07.680 --> 1:10:10.120
<v Speaker 1>Did not like it. Also, it was a set. One

1:10:10.120 --> 1:10:12.360
<v Speaker 1>of my pet peeves like a Broadway musical is. It

1:10:12.400 --> 1:10:14.919
<v Speaker 1>was a set that like really relied on the screens.

1:10:15.120 --> 1:10:16.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't like a screen set.

1:10:17.160 --> 1:10:19.240
<v Speaker 1>And you're like, this is supposed to be Russia in

1:10:19.360 --> 1:10:23.800
<v Speaker 1>the twentieth century Paris. Don't give me a screen set,

1:10:23.920 --> 1:10:28.000
<v Speaker 1>Dearravn Hansen. Fine, we're all about TikToker. Yeah, didn't like

1:10:28.040 --> 1:10:32.000
<v Speaker 1>a screen set, didn't like a villain named Glib. I'm

1:10:32.000 --> 1:10:35.360
<v Speaker 1>going to do my hot take before this episode ends

1:10:35.840 --> 1:10:42.040
<v Speaker 1>and say I am not a fan of authoritarian monarchy.

1:10:42.280 --> 1:10:42.880
<v Speaker 1>I don't think that.

1:10:43.280 --> 1:10:46.519
<v Speaker 2>No, stars, that was never our I just deal.

1:10:46.680 --> 1:10:48.320
<v Speaker 1>I just want to be very clear. I do not

1:10:48.439 --> 1:10:52.439
<v Speaker 1>think that czars should be in charge of everything. I

1:10:52.520 --> 1:10:54.599
<v Speaker 1>also think, because two things can be true at once,

1:10:54.800 --> 1:10:56.439
<v Speaker 1>you shouldn't murder children.

1:10:57.120 --> 1:11:01.519
<v Speaker 2>No, and I do love hearing about out mostly from

1:11:01.680 --> 1:11:04.080
<v Speaker 2>the Noble Blood episode about how hard it was to

1:11:04.160 --> 1:11:08.200
<v Speaker 2>kill Resputen. It is very fun, Dana. If you were

1:11:08.240 --> 1:11:13.799
<v Speaker 2>to make a movie about any version of the Anastasia story,

1:11:13.960 --> 1:11:17.440
<v Speaker 2>which version of it, you know what I mean, fictional Antesia,

1:11:17.560 --> 1:11:23.040
<v Speaker 2>real Anastasia, or like Anna Anderson or like what Anthesia

1:11:23.120 --> 1:11:25.360
<v Speaker 2>movie are you making? And who are you casting his

1:11:25.400 --> 1:11:28.120
<v Speaker 2>Anasthesia okay, Marie or the protagonist?

1:11:28.320 --> 1:11:32.160
<v Speaker 1>My black List script now is Anna Anderson married to

1:11:32.200 --> 1:11:36.400
<v Speaker 1>this eccentric professor in Virginia doing the big fish break

1:11:36.479 --> 1:11:38.759
<v Speaker 1>out of the hospital, and it's in the three days

1:11:38.800 --> 1:11:42.800
<v Speaker 1>before they're found with flashbacks. Amazing, So it's an Anna

1:11:42.960 --> 1:11:46.960
<v Speaker 1>true Anna Anderson story movie about this crazy older woman

1:11:47.360 --> 1:11:50.920
<v Speaker 1>her husband twenty years younger than her. Does she believe it?

1:11:51.000 --> 1:11:54.160
<v Speaker 1>Does he believe it? Are they both losing their minds?

1:11:54.880 --> 1:11:57.720
<v Speaker 1>They're on their run Bonnie and Clyde style. Yeah, what's

1:11:57.760 --> 1:12:00.240
<v Speaker 1>your movie? But you can write that one.

1:12:00.360 --> 1:12:04.200
<v Speaker 2>I would totally write that with you. I think it's

1:12:04.280 --> 1:12:07.280
<v Speaker 2>like Emma Stone pulling off the scam of a lifetime.

1:12:08.160 --> 1:12:13.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yes, Emma Stone as like a knowing Anastasia. Yeah.

1:12:13.240 --> 1:12:16.200
<v Speaker 2>I think it's Emma Stone just like seizing the day

1:12:16.760 --> 1:12:18.080
<v Speaker 2>of just being you know what I.

1:12:17.960 --> 1:12:19.360
<v Speaker 1>Mean, like the favorite style.

1:12:20.280 --> 1:12:25.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, of just of like noticing that she looks like

1:12:26.000 --> 1:12:29.240
<v Speaker 2>this lady and just being like, I gotta get out

1:12:29.280 --> 1:12:31.679
<v Speaker 2>of my life in Poland. I'm gonna be a princess.

1:12:31.920 --> 1:12:34.479
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I don't blame her. A life is a

1:12:34.640 --> 1:12:39.120
<v Speaker 1>widowed Polish factory worker who was severely injured and probably

1:12:39.120 --> 1:12:42.880
<v Speaker 1>suffered brain injury from a factory explosion, whose husband died

1:12:42.920 --> 1:12:46.880
<v Speaker 1>in World War One. He's a bad situation, and I

1:12:46.920 --> 1:12:49.280
<v Speaker 1>do not blame anyone for coming up with a more

1:12:49.320 --> 1:12:52.639
<v Speaker 1>exciting version of your life. But there was no Romanov

1:12:52.720 --> 1:12:54.760
<v Speaker 1>fortune to even inherit in the end.

1:12:55.479 --> 1:12:57.719
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's the twist ending Lizzie.

1:12:57.720 --> 1:12:58.760
<v Speaker 1>Where can the good people find?

1:12:58.800 --> 1:13:03.599
<v Speaker 2>You can find us at Hooks Thepodcast on Instagram. That's

1:13:03.600 --> 1:13:05.519
<v Speaker 2>also a great place to check to find out more

1:13:05.520 --> 1:13:09.600
<v Speaker 2>about the future of this podcast, which we'll hopefully just

1:13:09.760 --> 1:13:15.400
<v Speaker 2>continue on this feed after season one ends in like

1:13:15.840 --> 1:13:18.960
<v Speaker 2>three or four episodes, a not too many episodes left

1:13:19.000 --> 1:13:19.760
<v Speaker 2>on season one.

1:13:19.880 --> 1:13:21.280
<v Speaker 1>Three more episodes, three more.

1:13:21.200 --> 1:13:26.160
<v Speaker 2>Episodes, and then there will be a break of indeterminate length,

1:13:26.479 --> 1:13:30.000
<v Speaker 2>and then we will be back with season two, hopefully

1:13:30.000 --> 1:13:34.160
<v Speaker 2>on this feed, but if if not, anyway all of

1:13:34.200 --> 1:13:39.200
<v Speaker 2>the updates will come, I will post about on the Instagram,

1:13:39.280 --> 1:13:40.920
<v Speaker 2>so that will be the first place to learn about it.

1:13:41.000 --> 1:13:42.960
<v Speaker 1>And if you want to email us, you can email

1:13:43.040 --> 1:13:45.840
<v Speaker 1>us at Hoaxthpodcast at gmail dot com. You can also

1:13:45.880 --> 1:13:48.599
<v Speaker 1>follow me on social media at Danish schwartz with three

1:13:48.720 --> 1:13:52.200
<v Speaker 1>z's at the end and on TikTok Danish Swartz, also

1:13:52.200 --> 1:13:55.400
<v Speaker 1>with three z's at the end. Please order the book

1:13:55.439 --> 1:13:59.719
<v Speaker 1>The Arcane Arts if you are in Los Angeles, Chicago,

1:13:59.800 --> 1:14:02.439
<v Speaker 1>New York, or Phoenix, come out. I'm very excited for

1:14:02.479 --> 1:14:05.960
<v Speaker 1>the Phoenix event on Monday, June first, because we are

1:14:05.960 --> 1:14:11.080
<v Speaker 1>in conversation with Diana Gabaldon, who wrote the l Anderbooks,

1:14:11.080 --> 1:14:12.600
<v Speaker 1>and I'm very excited to talk to her about that.

1:14:13.320 --> 1:14:14.960
<v Speaker 2>I won't be there, but you guys can talk to

1:14:15.360 --> 1:14:18.439
<v Speaker 2>Diana Gabaldon, who is actually much cooler than I am, so.

1:14:18.880 --> 1:14:22.040
<v Speaker 1>That you might be at the LA one oh sure,

1:14:22.400 --> 1:14:28.200
<v Speaker 1>May nine, Tuesday, May nineteenth, Maybe right? Maybe? All right?

1:14:28.200 --> 1:14:29.960
<v Speaker 2>Thanks for listening, Please holks responsibly.

1:14:30.080 --> 1:14:39.080
<v Speaker 1>Bye.

1:14:39.840 --> 1:14:43.320
<v Speaker 2>Pax is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our hosts are

1:14:43.400 --> 1:14:46.720
<v Speaker 2>Danish Sports and Lizzie Logan. Our executive producers are Matt

1:14:46.760 --> 1:14:50.280
<v Speaker 2>Frederick and Trevor Young, with supervising producer Rima L. K

1:14:50.439 --> 1:14:54.240
<v Speaker 2>Ali and producers Nomes Griffin and Jesse Funk. Our theme

1:14:54.280 --> 1:14:57.880
<v Speaker 2>music was composed by Lane Montgomery. For more podcasts from

1:14:57.880 --> 1:15:01.000
<v Speaker 2>iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app Apple Podcasts for

1:15:01.120 --> 1:15:03.719
<v Speaker 2>wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks for listening.