1 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:07,000 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 2: Tshok Harris, Welcome to Bloomberg. Thank you so much. 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: Mamas. 4 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 2: You've been in the job six months. You're flying high 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 2: in the polls. Finnegaiel's romping at home. What is cutting 6 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 2: through for you as Tea Shock. 7 00:00:20,480 --> 00:00:22,639 Speaker 1: Well, I'm always very conscious that opinion polls come and 8 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,119 Speaker 1: go and can change on a dime. So politicians pretend 9 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: they ignore them. That's not quite true, but I know 10 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: they can quickly change. Look, I'm trying to bring an 11 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: energy and an enthusiasm to the job of Tea Shock 12 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,319 Speaker 1: and indeed to the challenges that our country faces. I'm 13 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: trying to bring a fresh approach to some major issues 14 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:43,320 Speaker 1: we're facing in the Irish economy around delivery, delivery of infrastructure, 15 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: around issues are in childcare, and also I suppose trying 16 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: to speak up and speak out on behalf of the 17 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: values that we hold here in Ireland in terms of 18 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: a number of geopolitical conflicts around the world. So I'm 19 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: certainly giving the job by all, but it's early days. 20 00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: The question in everybody's mind if you are doing as 21 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: well in the poll and the party is doing as 22 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 2: well in the polls. Is the pressure from the back 23 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,840 Speaker 2: benches to call an election this side of Christmas? 24 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: Well, there's always interest amongst politicians and media folk as 25 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: to when you're going to have the next general election. 26 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: The general election has to take place by the twenty 27 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 1: second of May. I'm in a three party coalition. The 28 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 1: government is working well. I want the government to end 29 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: well and the timing of the election is my constitutional prerogative, 30 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: but I want to do it in a manner that works. 31 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: We have a budget next week. I want to set 32 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,840 Speaker 1: some new housing targets as to how we really ramp 33 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,039 Speaker 1: up housing supply in Ireland over the next five years, 34 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: and also want to pass a number of key pieces 35 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:34,679 Speaker 1: of legislation. So we've plenty to do in the days 36 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: and week Sad, let me. 37 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 2: Just press you on that. What would I mean you're 38 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 2: writing hind in the polls. You've got a surplus of 39 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,120 Speaker 2: a budget, a cracking amount of money to spend. What 40 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,400 Speaker 2: is it that would stop you from calling this election 41 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty four? 42 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: So it's more about It's more about deciding and arriving 43 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: at the best and most appropriate time when you can 44 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: honestly say this government has done its work, and now 45 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: is the time to have the election. I've consistently said 46 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 1: I want the government to go full term, and in 47 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:03,760 Speaker 1: due course with colleagues, I'll identify when that best moment is. 48 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 2: Would November constitute full term for you? 49 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 1: I'm not planning an election then, but thank you for asking. 50 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, we'll wait to say. I mean, you're going 51 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 2: to White House in October. You will meet with Joe Biden. 52 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 2: That could be the perfect moment to lay out your 53 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: political stare. How important is that meeting for you? 54 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:22,600 Speaker 1: Look, it's really important. It's always an honor for any 55 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: country to be invited to the White House, and for me, 56 00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:27,120 Speaker 1: as an easy shock, to have the opportunity to meet 57 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: the President of the United States ill the White House 58 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: is something I very much appreciate. We're going there against 59 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: the backdrop of one hundred years of diplomatic relations between 60 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 1: our two countries. The United States of America was the 61 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: first country to recognize Ireland, and it's important we look back. 62 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: It's important we mark this moment, but also important that 63 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 1: we look to the future of the relationship between our 64 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: two countries. That is a really strong economic and cultural relationship. 65 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,960 Speaker 2: Well, obviously that's time. If you're going to be in Washington, 66 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 2: are you arranging to meet Donald Trump at the same time? 67 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 2: Have you agreed to meet him and his team? 68 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: I have no such plans the White House. This invitation 69 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: became official as of yesterday, and obviously my program is 70 00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: being worked out. But I would imagine in such close 71 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,119 Speaker 1: proximity to the presidential election here, I'd imagine both presidential 72 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,639 Speaker 1: candidates would be very busy campaigning. The purpose of my 73 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:15,679 Speaker 1: visit is to be President Biden, is to host a 74 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: number of events with the President in relation to the 75 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 1: one hundred years of diplomatic relations. 76 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 2: But would you hope to be active and reach out 77 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 2: to the Trump the Trump side as well. 78 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: I'm always very happy to engage with with any political leader. 79 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 1: But like I said, I'm conscious the close proximity to 80 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: the election. I'm sure there'll be a lot of campaigning 81 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:30,000 Speaker 1: going on in the US. 82 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 2: Look, you have your budget next week. There's a fourteen 83 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 2: billion swag from the Apple tax money coming back. Now 84 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 2: that's not in the bank, But are you prepared to 85 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: ring fence that for housing? 86 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 1: Yes, and a few other things. So I think, look, 87 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: this is once off, so you will ring fences for 88 00:03:50,000 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 1: a number of key infrastructural areas and we will set 89 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: them out in the budget. As you rightly say, it's 90 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: not a matter for the budget. We've yet to receive 91 00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: that money. But I do think it's appropriate in our 92 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,640 Speaker 1: budget that we would provide clarity as to the principles 93 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 1: will apply as to how to invest it. And let 94 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: me assist in suggesting that I think those key areas 95 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: around water, our water infrastructure, our energy grid and housing supply. 96 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: There are three areas that I think could, but I suppose, 97 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,480 Speaker 1: really give a benefit to their country's economic security into 98 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: the future. 99 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 2: Could I press you a little bit more? Because the 100 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:22,800 Speaker 2: fourteen billion will most of it go to housing. It's 101 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 2: probably one of the most serious social and political issues. 102 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: There's no doubt housing and housing supply is the most 103 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: serious economic and social issue in Ireland. But it's also 104 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: important when you look at housing supply and how to 105 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: ramp it up. There are also key infrastructural areas around water, 106 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: energy and other areas that are important enablers to the 107 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,040 Speaker 1: delivery of housing. We're spending I think second only to 108 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: Italy in terms of EU governments on housing supports and 109 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 1: housing supply. We will continue to invest more and as 110 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 1: you say, already leaving Apple money aside. We're already in 111 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: a position where we are delivering budget surplaces. So investment 112 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 1: is not just the key issue here. It's also how 113 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: do we make sure we can deliver projects and deliver 114 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: housing more speedily and at scale. We've set up a 115 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: new Land Development Agency to assist with that, to assist 116 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: with utilizing public land. We're also reforming our planning laws 117 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 1: through our office through our parliament currently. So investments absolutely 118 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,720 Speaker 1: important in relation to housing. There will be more and 119 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:20,000 Speaker 1: I think Apple is an appropriate source of funding for housing, 120 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: water and energy. But alongside that government needs to pull 121 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: other policy levers to more quickly deliver housing too, and. 122 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: That sounds a lot of deregulation. That's where you're really 123 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 2: going to push now. 124 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: It's more around them making sure that our planning system 125 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: is time efficient, is well resourced, and is sizeable enough 126 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,479 Speaker 1: to deal with the scale, and also zoning appropriate levels 127 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: of land. 128 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 2: You're here in the United States of America. There's a 129 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,840 Speaker 2: huge US presidence. In Ireland, tech and pharma are the dominant. 130 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 2: How do you keep our land as the destination for 131 00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 2: big US tech in Europe? 132 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: So by continuing to do what we did, plus acknowledging 133 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,719 Speaker 1: the need to continue to invest now in education, skills, 134 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: and our universities now have a dedicated department of Higher Education, 135 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:06,119 Speaker 1: Research and Innovation, recognizing that when companies want to locate 136 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: somewhere talent, access to talent and collaboration is so important. 137 00:06:09,640 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: But also continuing I think to provide that consistent approach 138 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: in terms of business and industry policy, and I think 139 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,280 Speaker 1: saying to people in the United States, saying to investors 140 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 1: in the United States that we can truthfully be that 141 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,160 Speaker 1: bridge to the only English speaking country in the European Union, 142 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: and that respectfully, for. 143 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,600 Speaker 2: As long as I have left Ireland in nineteen eighty nine, 144 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 2: that is the same story of every t shock. It's education, 145 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 2: its availability to education. But you are possibly going to 146 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,240 Speaker 2: face a Trump presidency who's made it very clear he'll 147 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 2: give potentially tax breaks to bring it home, bring production 148 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: home here, bring manufacturing home here to the United States 149 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: of America. How are you preparing for that kind of headwind? 150 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: Well, being honest, and I don't want to get myself 151 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: involved in American presidential politics, but being honest, we as 152 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: a country and as an economy and successive governments have 153 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,800 Speaker 1: dealt with a whole variety of US administrations over the years, 154 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: their right to pursue whatever policies they want. But against 155 00:07:03,000 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: that backdrop, throughout the decades and the last Trump presidency, 156 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: we still manage to grow investment, grow our ties, grow 157 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 1: our jobs. So I'm conscious of what people say during campaigns, 158 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: but I'm also very proud of the records that we 159 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 1: have and the offering that we have for people who 160 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,160 Speaker 1: want to do business in Ireland. And my message to 161 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: them is that I hear them when they say we 162 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: need to invest more in our infrastructure, we need to 163 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: invest more in our energy grid, and we need to 164 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: continue to invest in skills and education. So I'm keeping 165 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:31,360 Speaker 1: my eyes on the offering we have and allowing other 166 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: people to do their bit too well. 167 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 2: In preparation, potentially both both candidates are talking about taras 168 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 2: Trump and Harrison extension of taris as a possibility. How 169 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 2: is Europe viewing the potential for a trade war? Maybe 170 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:44,559 Speaker 2: that's the bigger question. 171 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it is. I think it is a 172 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 1: bigger question. I wouldn't describe it as a trade war, 173 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: but the job of work. Would you describe it as 174 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: the job of work that Europe needs to do to 175 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: become more competitive. I think one of the biggest challenges 176 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: I see as a member of the European Council now 177 00:07:57,880 --> 00:08:01,840 Speaker 1: is that there are so many geopolitic pressures in terms 178 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 1: of war and the continent of Europe and the likes. 179 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,119 Speaker 1: We have to make sure we carve O time space 180 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: bandwidth to work on the competitivist agenda. So Mario Dragi, 181 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: for example, has just done an excellent report in terms 182 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 1: of how to build a competitive Europe. Lette the former 183 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: Prime Minister of Italy, similarly on how you complete the 184 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 1: work of the single Market. We need in Europe to 185 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: not be in any way complacent about our competitiveness. We 186 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: have a lot of work to do in relation to that. 187 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,640 Speaker 1: And when when Ireland speaks to the United States. Now, 188 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: when Ireland speaks to investors, it doesn't just speak as Ireland, 189 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: of course it does, but it also speaks proudly as 190 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,319 Speaker 1: a member of the massive market and union that is 191 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:36,679 Speaker 1: the EU. So we need to see from the new 192 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: Commission a very ambitious program around competitiveness. 193 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 2: You've talked about infrastructure and energy. How actively is you 194 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 2: as t Shoka you engage with big tech, big American tech, 195 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 2: the big players who are present along with big format 196 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: in Ireland on their energy needs. 197 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,199 Speaker 1: So I obviously, through the appropriate for have opportunities to 198 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: hear their voices through business representative groups, through our own 199 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 1: trade and investment agencies, IDA Ireland, Enterprise Ireland and others. 200 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: And I am acutely aware. 201 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,680 Speaker 2: Are you speaking to them one to one yourself? I haven't. 202 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,640 Speaker 1: Don't think I've directly met with many many so, but 203 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: but I'm very much, very much open to doing so. 204 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,679 Speaker 1: Our Minister for Enterprise generally does that for government. But 205 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: I hosted a competitiveness summit in Government buildings about two 206 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: or three weeks ago where we had all of our 207 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 1: state agencies and the feedback we're getting is that Ireland 208 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: is doing well, Europe is doing well. Ireland is doing 209 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,000 Speaker 1: well in europe a relative to competitiveness. But there's there's 210 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,439 Speaker 1: no room for complacency at all. And I'm conscious the 211 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:29,959 Speaker 1: decisions we decide to take as a government in the 212 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: next year, two years, three years will have a profound 213 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: effect on the support and well being of the rish 214 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: economy into the future. 215 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: If you sure you're here for UNGA, you have peace 216 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 2: keeping forces at the border between Israel and Lebanon. This 217 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,839 Speaker 2: war is escalating day by day. With Chris Bola, what 218 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 2: is your sense of what it takes to de escalate? 219 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 2: Everybody has a view, what is yours? 220 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: So I'm really concerned about this. I had a very 221 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: good meeting with the Secretary Generally the United Nations, Antonio Guterras, 222 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,560 Speaker 1: on this situation. We were meant to be meeting at 223 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: the UN General Assembly against a backdrop of the world 224 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:08,400 Speaker 1: applying pressure to de escalate, and instead, on an almost 225 00:10:08,480 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 1: early basis, we have seen escalation and the situation now 226 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: in Lebanon is extraordinarily dangerous. I have been situationally briefed 227 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 1: on where the UN views things and where Uniform views things, 228 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: and our peacekeepers are safe. But we continue to monitor this. 229 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,840 Speaker 1: But being very honest, man us, and it's a depressing 230 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: thing to have to say, I don't believe the world 231 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:30,839 Speaker 1: collectively is doing enough to bring about the environment for 232 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:31,440 Speaker 1: de escalation. 233 00:10:31,720 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: You don't believe, said yourself too, shock that the EU 234 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,680 Speaker 2: needs to draw upon more levers. What are those levers 235 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 2: that the EU can pull as opposed to what. 236 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 1: The Americans have been trying to do so let me 237 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,160 Speaker 1: just be really clear so my comments aren't misunderstood. Israel 238 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: has an absolute right to live in peace and security. 239 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: The horrific terrorist attack that Israel encountered should never, never, 240 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: just be brushed over. This was a horrific terrorist attack. 241 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,480 Speaker 1: The hostages need to all be released. But we have 242 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,319 Speaker 1: moved to a space now where what is happening in 243 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:05,800 Speaker 1: terms of humanitarian catastrophe, in terms of the death and 244 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: naming of children, in terms of the loss of civilian 245 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: life and infrastructure is so large that it is not possible, 246 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 1: in my view, for any organization or any country or 247 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: group of countries to not pull every lever at their disposal. 248 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: And we do have an EU Israel Association agreement around 249 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: trade that does have human rights clauses in it. And 250 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: I think we should be speaking to Israel saying you 251 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 1: need to de escalate, or we need to look at 252 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 1: areas like this. We don't do that to be hostile. 253 00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: We do it to be helpful to create the environment 254 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 1: for a cease far because this current situation cannot continue. 255 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: Aid is not getting in. I met the King of 256 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: Jordan on this matter. The level of aid getting into 257 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,199 Speaker 1: Gaza this year has not just not increased, it is 258 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: dramatically decreased. We cannot get sick children out of Gaza 259 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 1: for life saving operations. The scale of death a loss 260 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 1: of life is almost unimaginable for the world. And there 261 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: will be a day where the world will see Gaza 262 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:56,520 Speaker 1: and see the impact, and I think we'll all be 263 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: quite horrified and ashamed as to how we, as a 264 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: world of collective allowed to get to this point.