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Speaker 1: I'm will Lucas and this is black Tech, Dream Money.

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Speaker 1: Ronnie Williams is a three time venture founder currently serving

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Speaker 1: as president and co founder of Solo Funds, the largest

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Speaker 1: community fintech platform for everyday Americans, providing an opportunity to

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Speaker 1: access and growth capital and establish financial independence. He's also

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Speaker 1: co founder Listener and Ultratonic Data over Sound Technology Leader,

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Speaker 1: and he's an aspenc Institute Henry Crown fellow. Solo Funds

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Speaker 1: recently reached a major milestone achieving a million users, So

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Speaker 1: I'm interested if he had to rank the most important

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Speaker 1: factors in achieving that milestone, between a the demand for

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Speaker 1: the solution solo Funds provides, or be his ability to

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Speaker 1: build community. What would Rodney say is the most important

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Speaker 1: to reaching the MILLI.

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Speaker 2: I think it's the right answer is probably a combination

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Speaker 2: of both. I don't think that one outweighs the other.

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Speaker 2: I think what made it so difficult is the concept

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Speaker 2: of a community as it released to financial services is

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Speaker 2: very very new. Right, That's not when you think about

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Speaker 2: financial services, you don't think about community, and and so

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Speaker 2: I believe that has to be a part of the

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Speaker 2: growth story, not just the demand part, Right, I think

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Speaker 2: I think the demand has always been there. I think

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Speaker 2: the community is what makes it unique and special.

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Speaker 1: You had said in another interview, the system is somewhat

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Speaker 1: discriminatory or selective in that it's extremely expensive to start

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Speaker 1: a financial services company. To that end, like, what are

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Speaker 1: some of the most.

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Speaker 3: Effective ways for people.

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Speaker 1: Who are trying to build fintech, you know, whether in

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Speaker 1: whatever vertical, but particularly in fintech, whatever solution. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: you know, what are some of the best ways to

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Speaker 1: create MVPs, like minimum viable product when it's so tough

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Speaker 1: to get into this industry.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I would I would say that I

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Speaker 2: think the way in which we did it was, you know,

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Speaker 2: was probably the cheapest, most efficient way to do so.

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Speaker 4: It is expensive, probably more expensive.

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Speaker 2: Than any other of the technology company outside of hardware,

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Speaker 2: in my opinion, because of the required amount of legal

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Speaker 2: work prior to launching compliance and then the ongoing regulation

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Speaker 2: or compliance that's necessary that to maintain whatever the idea

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Speaker 2: you have.

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Speaker 4: So it's actually pretty pretty substantial upfront costs.

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Speaker 2: But the way in which we did it was using

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Speaker 2: the accelerators, using the the those were those were incredible,

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Speaker 2: you know, launching pads for Solo. I think Solo participated

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Speaker 2: in three prior to launching yet alone, maybe probably about

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Speaker 2: three additional after launch.

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Speaker 4: So you know, those those accelerators were huge for for

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Speaker 4: not for.

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Speaker 2: Trying to just leverage resources despite the uphill battle of

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Speaker 2: the of the costs that it takes to do.

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Speaker 1: So, you know, for I love this conversation because you know,

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Speaker 1: you talk about it's really expensive to do compliance. It's

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Speaker 1: heavily regulated industry, and I was reading something where you said,

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Speaker 1: you know, at the end of the day, the pattern

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Speaker 1: matching that vcs do when they're looking for the next

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Speaker 1: billion dollar exit, there's not a number of people who

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Speaker 1: walk in looking like you. You know, there's not a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who have attained that level of success and

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Speaker 1: look like us.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: But when you put numbers on the board, you went

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Speaker 1: on to say, people start to wake up. And so

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Speaker 1: in order to get that VC attention. To your point,

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Speaker 1: you know, you have to put some numbers up on

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Speaker 1: the board. How do you do that if you're not

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Speaker 1: Rodney Williams.

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Speaker 2: Well, I think, let's be very clear. I think that

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Speaker 2: I think everyone is capable of delivering on a concept

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Speaker 2: in a way that they need to.

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Speaker 4: I think that some.

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Speaker 2: Of the most the most important things that the founder

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Speaker 2: needs to do is persevere and get it done.

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Speaker 4: And to do so, you.

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Speaker 2: Got to learn, you know, coming from our first venture

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Speaker 2: and to this venture, myself and Travis didn't get here

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Speaker 2: by knowing all the answers or assuming that, you know,

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Speaker 2: because I've had success in the past, it's going to automatically,

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Speaker 2: you know, lead to success here.

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Speaker 4: I think we we've attacked.

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Speaker 2: It from the from from the position of not knowing

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Speaker 2: anything right and and what that means is we need

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Speaker 2: to know everything and and when when you know us

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Speaker 2: standing here today reaching the numbers that we have, is

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Speaker 2: that we have become the experts at what we do,

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Speaker 2: and we're the best in the world at it. You know,

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Speaker 2: every predecessor that has ever tried to do peer to

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Speaker 2: peer finance has failed or has has never reached the scale.

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Speaker 2: And you know, what we didn't know, we learned and

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Speaker 2: what we knew and anchored in the community in which

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Speaker 2: we serve to be quite frank we're black, we're African American.

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Speaker 4: And.

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Speaker 2: Fortunately I'm part of a community or we're part of

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Speaker 2: a community that has been taken advantage of by financial

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Speaker 2: services since the beginning of time and a lot of

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Speaker 2: the we know the dos and don'ts of our community.

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Speaker 2: We know the nuances of what the product needs to enable.

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Speaker 2: We know the nuances and what's going to encourage users.

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Speaker 4: To pay back. These are some of the things that

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Speaker 4: we knew.

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Speaker 2: All of the things that we didn't know is what

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Speaker 2: we learned to put those numbers on the board. So,

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Speaker 2: and to be clear, I think you know, we don't.

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Speaker 2: I don't think we get on the stage enough to

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Speaker 2: talk about the numbers on the board. But we're doing

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Speaker 2: something that has never been done before, at a scale

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Speaker 2: that has never been done before, and and and and

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of there's a lot of what I

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Speaker 2: would call pain and suffering and scar tissue and getting there.

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Speaker 4: But we're excited about what's.

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Speaker 1: Next coming to the game. Not knowing a whole lot,

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Speaker 1: you said, to your point, but you had to learn

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Speaker 1: a lot so that you could know everything about this.

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Speaker 1: I'm obviously I'm sure you came in with some assumptions

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Speaker 1: about things because I read your story and you and

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Speaker 1: Travis both come from very successful corporate careers and having

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Speaker 1: that you know, personal income, that revenue, you had people

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Speaker 1: around you who didn't have it, and so in order,

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Speaker 1: you were one of the people that people went to

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Speaker 1: the family, like, you know, if I need one hundred dollars,

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Speaker 1: I can go to Rodney.

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Speaker 3: Well, so obviously other people have that issue as well.

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Speaker 1: But what what are some of the things that we're

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Speaker 1: surprising to you about some of the assumption as you

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Speaker 1: made that may not have been turned out to be correct.

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Speaker 2: You know, I used to think that it was just

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Speaker 2: my friends and family, meaning that you know, mostly you know,

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Speaker 2: the group of Americans that you know had limited savings

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Speaker 2: and didn't really have access to short term credit, whether

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Speaker 2: it's a credit card or a painting loan. I kind

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Speaker 2: of you know, I originally thought that it was focused

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Speaker 2: in African American communities.

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Speaker 4: I'm still somewhat shocked that.

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Speaker 2: No, it's it's it's it's something that's spread across all

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Speaker 2: middle class Americans.

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Speaker 4: You know, over.

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Speaker 2: Over over one hundred and ninety million middle class Americans.

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Speaker 4: Yes, it's filled with the underserved.

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Speaker 5: Communities are filled with communities that you would think of

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Speaker 5: like LGBTQ or you know, Americans with disability, for example,

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Speaker 5: but it's also filled with black ground and women Americans

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Speaker 5: who tend to be taken advantage of by financial services.

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Speaker 2: So said differently, financial service companies haven't necessarily built products for.

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Speaker 4: The needs for their needs.

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Speaker 2: So that's probably, honestly, that one of the most incredible

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Speaker 2: assumptions that that continues to shock me. And and I

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Speaker 2: give you an example of that. Ten percent of our

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Speaker 2: borrowers make over one hundred thousand dollars a year. You know,

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Speaker 2: this person isn't financially illiterate. This person understands finance, this

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Speaker 2: person has a credit card. Why has the financial system

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Speaker 2: been built to whereas though they need two hundred dollars

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Speaker 2: and they can't get it. And that's the biggest question.

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Speaker 2: The bigger question isn't how we did it, it's why

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Speaker 2: is it successful? Why is it growing? Why is there

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Speaker 2: such a demand for this? Why isn't more people talking

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Speaker 2: about it? You know, there's a lot of regulators and

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Speaker 2: government agencies and politicians are always talking about reducing the

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Speaker 2: wealth gap and increasing the access to capital. You're always

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Speaker 2: talking about it, but where like, who are the people

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Speaker 2: that are doing it? And why aren't you supporting them?

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Speaker 2: And those are the questions that I now I sometimes

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Speaker 2: perplexed by. But I'm up for the challenge as well.

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Speaker 1: You know, so historically we've leaned on the big three

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Speaker 1: credit companies Experience, Eco Fax, TransUnion to determine a large

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Speaker 1: part of our financial situation, whether we can get loans,

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Speaker 1: whether we can get a car, whether we can get

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Speaker 1: a house. So many other alternatives to that have come

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Speaker 1: into the conversation over the last few years, like.

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Speaker 3: A social credit score and et cetera.

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Speaker 1: How do you think how does Solo Funds think.

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Speaker 3: About the evolution of the credit score.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's somewhat broken.

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Speaker 2: If you think about an missed of COVID and thinking

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Speaker 2: sometime in twenty twenty one credit scores, what are all

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Speaker 2: time high where.

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Speaker 4: No one will working?

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Speaker 2: Well, you know what that What we're ultimately talking about

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Speaker 2: is that you know, the way the credit score currently

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Speaker 2: works is that it's an incredible measure of historical behavior,

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Speaker 2: but it doesn't necessarily give you a snapshot on the consumer,

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Speaker 2: the consumer's economic position today. It gives a snapshot of

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Speaker 2: what it was right and and and there's waste. There's

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Speaker 2: so much technology available to you at our fingertips that

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Speaker 2: it needs to it needs to be way more real time,

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Speaker 2: and it needs to have a forward looking out look

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Speaker 2: and and I think that's that's that's some of the

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Speaker 2: nuances in which and how we made our solo score,

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Speaker 2: which again takes into account real time cash flow to

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Speaker 2: to to assess, uh, who who that borrower may be today,

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Speaker 2: right and and and then try to under saying.

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Speaker 4: What they can do in a near term.

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Speaker 2: So it's a very different thing, you know what you

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Speaker 2: know when when you talk to anyone about the credit

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Speaker 2: report or the credit agencies, and there's a ton of

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Speaker 2: secrecy on how it's scored. There's some things that we know,

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Speaker 2: but it's a ton of different misconceptions about how it's scored.

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Speaker 2: We actually just tried to remove all of the misconceptions.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: The way our score works is on cash flow. When

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Speaker 2: you pay something back on time, your score gets better.

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Speaker 2: When you don't, your score gets worse.

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Speaker 4: That simple.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no magic, saw us, no nothing that the

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Speaker 2: consumer can't understand.

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Speaker 4: I wish our credit score was that simple.

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Speaker 2: Meaning if I have a bill and I paid it

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Speaker 2: on time, it should maintain or get better. But it

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Speaker 2: kind of doesn't. You know, it seems that get worse

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Speaker 2: if I miss a payment. I make a ton of payments,

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Speaker 2: and it doesn't necessarily reflect that successful payment history in

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Speaker 2: the score at least, and and and no form of immediacy.

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Speaker 4: So these are some of the things in which what

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Speaker 4: we leveraged to create our score.

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Speaker 2: I will tell you the traditional credit system is built

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Speaker 2: on that, on the credit burd and agency. So it's

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Speaker 2: a necessary evil, but it is an evil that is

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Speaker 2: not widely understood and and that's been been a challenge.

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Speaker 1: There are many people who might have just fell on

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Speaker 1: hard times or have an unexpected situation and need help.

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Speaker 1: And SOLO find is that assist others who might just

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Speaker 1: be financially unsaddened. How the solo funds man those behaviors

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Speaker 1: on this platform to be sure both the bowers assisted

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Speaker 1: and the lender is protected.

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Speaker 3: Rodney speaks on it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I will tell you where we see much far less.

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Speaker 2: Than we see far less a percentages are examples of

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Speaker 2: consumers bad with money.

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Speaker 4: We see.

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Speaker 2: Much more examples of consumers operating on extremely tight budgets.

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Speaker 1: You think that then it's like a negative stereotype that

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Speaker 1: they've said about us, that we just can't manage money.

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Speaker 2: It's not true. It's actually really incorrect. It really bothers

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Speaker 2: me because in part they're talking about my mom. When

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Speaker 2: we talk about my mom, it's gonna be a problem.

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Speaker 4: But I'm going to try to paint a picture for you.

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Speaker 4: For of our bars are college.

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Speaker 2: Educated, mostly women. They tend to have multiple children, They're

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Speaker 2: gainfully employed. They live in cities like New York City,

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Speaker 2: San Francisco, Miami, Atlanta. These are high cost of living cities,

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Speaker 2: and they live on extremely extremely tight budgets. What I

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Speaker 2: mean by extremely tight budgets is that they have less

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Speaker 2: than eight hundred dollars.

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Speaker 4: Of stavings in their bank account.

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Speaker 2: Despite being college educated, savvy. To give you perspective, this

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Speaker 2: consumer can take twenty dollars and somehow.

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Speaker 4: Figure out how to live off at that point an

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Speaker 4: entire week when they need to.

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Speaker 2: They know every day that the bill is coming out

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Speaker 2: of their checking account. Literally, they know when Netflix is

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Speaker 2: coming out. Okay, this is how focused they are and finances.

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Speaker 2: So what we're talking about is the cost of living

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Speaker 2: is concern in a wage concern that's creating very very

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Speaker 2: tight constraints on budgets. And in a time like this

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Speaker 2: where inflation is happening all all of a sudden, my

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Speaker 2: gas to fill my tank when from forty dollars to

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Speaker 2: fifty dollars.

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Speaker 4: I need that.

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Speaker 2: So what happens is these consumers, despite that eight hundred

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Speaker 2: dollars savings, will have a financial emergency one to four

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Speaker 2: times every twelve months. And it looks very simple. My child,

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Speaker 2: my child is sick. I can't go to work for

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Speaker 2: three days. That's three days of pay.

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Speaker 4: Wow.

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Speaker 2: This is also when I now have a medical deductible

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Speaker 2: because my kid is sick, and even surgery that's five

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Speaker 2: hundred dollars. And the combination of the medical deductible and

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Speaker 2: the fact that I'm not going to work means I'm

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Speaker 2: going to be short on rent in two weeks.

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Speaker 4: That's it. Eight hundred savings is gone like that.

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Speaker 2: So all of a sudden, you know, you're like, you

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Speaker 2: know what, I'm gonna be late on the rent. I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna make sure my kid gets better, but I'm gonna

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Speaker 2: incur late fees on my rent and I don't have

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Speaker 2: any extra cash. Really, I'm just gonna be late. I'm

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Speaker 2: just gonna make sure I got food on the table.

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Speaker 2: Let me just borrow two hundred dollars to make sure

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Speaker 2: I got food on the table. That's not mismanagement of money,

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Speaker 2: that's a lack of cash.

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Speaker 4: But that's a lack of salary.

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Speaker 2: Given the cost of living and ef person lives in,

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Speaker 2: there's no scenario that this person can access short term

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Speaker 2: capital cheaper or more efficiently except for going to friends

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Speaker 2: or family or if you talk to a lot of

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Speaker 2: these consumers.

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Speaker 4: I mean, what I love about this consumer is.

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Speaker 2: That they're they're they're wet Americas built off of right.

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Speaker 2: We see teachers who sell t shirts on Etsy. We

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Speaker 2: see police officers who also drive Uber, We see you know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, we see multiple streams of income, especially in

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Speaker 2: moments of type and constraint moments, they actually dig themselves out.

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Speaker 2: The problem is we're trying to make sure that whole

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Speaker 2: isn't as deep as it would be what a subprime

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Speaker 2: credit card or paying loan, we're solo. That whole is

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Speaker 2: not deep at all. But it is a misconception that

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Speaker 2: I hate that this group of Americans is not, you know,

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Speaker 2: financially illiterate. It is not true.

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Speaker 4: It's not true.

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Speaker 1: Talk more about that the long term cycle of debt

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Speaker 1: that many of us, not many of us, may not

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Speaker 1: be aware of that the traditional emergency lenders put us

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Speaker 1: in because you know, you talk about yes, there there

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Speaker 1: may be some predators or a percentage race that those things,

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Speaker 1: But what is this real cycle that it gets people

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Speaker 1: into that's negatively affected our communities.

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Speaker 2: The cycle isn't even the APR. The APR is an illusion

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Speaker 2: that's inaccurate. So I'm gonna give you too truth about

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Speaker 2: the APR, which causes problems for for for many Americans.

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Speaker 2: Number One, the APR is as a specific fee based

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Speaker 2: on the condition of credit. It is a fee that

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Speaker 2: they're supposed to communicate. It's it's a it's a fee

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Speaker 2: that takes the kind of like average rate and annualizes it.

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Speaker 4: But I give you an example.

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Speaker 2: When someone says, oh my god, that payday loan costs

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Speaker 2: four hundred per the consumer is not technically paying four

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Speaker 2: times what they borrow. It's an annualization relation based on

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Speaker 2: the short term. It's even difficult to understand as I'm

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Speaker 2: explaining it. Yeah, right, So that's that's problem number one.

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Speaker 2: Problem number two, which is more important than problem number one,

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Speaker 2: in my opinion, is that APR does not include subscription fees,

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Speaker 2: annual fees, late fees, origination fees, instant cash fees. I

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Speaker 2: give you an example, when you look at like subprime

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Speaker 2: credit cards or payday loans. I only think like twenty

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Speaker 2: percent of consumers actually paid them more time, so that

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Speaker 2: means what a consumer is really paying should then also

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Speaker 2: include the late fee, because most consumers are paying late fees.

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Speaker 4: That gets into the predatory nature.

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Speaker 2: And giving an example, a subprime credit card, which is

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Speaker 2: an average of about five hundred dollars, is your how

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Speaker 2: much credit they'll give you it will happen the highest

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Speaker 2: APR that's allowed in that state, plus the an annual fee.

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Speaker 2: There's a late fee, a flat late fee assessed every

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Speaker 2: month that you're late for the rest of the time.

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Speaker 2: Now they have caps, but for a while there's also

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Speaker 2: instant cash fees that you also don't care. So when

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Speaker 2: we actually we actually try to we call it total costs.

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Speaker 2: We actually commission the research projects or understand what are

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Speaker 2: consumers really paying?

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Speaker 4: Not sure math.

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Speaker 2: If a consumer takes one hundred dollars today, what are

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Speaker 2: they paying twelve months from them?

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Speaker 4: That's it. It's everything plus.

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Speaker 2: One hundred dollars, no offens and bucks, and the data

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Speaker 2: is really really upsetting.

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Speaker 4: Subprime credit cards are.

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Speaker 2: Actually more expensive and paying the most, which are a

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Speaker 2: subprime credit card of basically one thousand dollars, the average.

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Speaker 4: Consumer is going to pay like nineteen hundred dollars.

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Speaker 3: Fees on top of the thousand, on top of it.

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Speaker 4: Principle, Yeah, it was, it was. Actually it's actually really bad.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, these are some of the things that

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Speaker 2: aren't necessarily talking about, but mainly because who's who's the

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Speaker 2: who's the folks in the in the room arguing about

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Speaker 2: APR or talking about what consumers are really paying. Number One,

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Speaker 2: that they're too far removed. I know, I know, my my,

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Speaker 2: you know, the too far removed from the plight. They've

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Speaker 2: they've made their money a long time ago, they're doing

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Speaker 2: pretty well. They're not understanding what these consumers are really

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Speaker 2: paying for. And and if they're from non underrepresentative groups,

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Speaker 2: so underserved groups, it's just perpetuating a lack of understanding, right,

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Speaker 2: and and and and this is one of the biggest

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Speaker 2: reasons why we're we published as Total cross Support. Now

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Speaker 2: why again, we kept trying to figure out why we're growing,

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Speaker 2: you know, like maybe you know, because you start to

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Speaker 2: question yourself, like maybe we aren't so affordable, maybe we

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Speaker 2: aren't such a benefit. But when we surveyed our consumers

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Speaker 2: and they're like, I was like, why didn't you why

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Speaker 2: don't you?

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Speaker 4: Do you have a credit card? Yes, well, that's shocking.

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Speaker 2: They told us that they didn't have a credit right,

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Speaker 2: why don't you use your credit card?

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Speaker 4: It's too expensive? And I was so confused by that.

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Speaker 2: Because my credit card isn't that expensive, but their credit

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Speaker 2: card is.

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Speaker 4: And these are just some of the things that you know.

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Speaker 2: I think that's one of the best things about being

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Speaker 2: who we are as founders and entering this space within

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Speaker 2: financial services is that we it's I think it's our

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Speaker 2: duty to be a voice of who we represent and

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Speaker 2: to start to bring data and facts and start to push,

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Speaker 2: you know, are our leaders to answer these questions and

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Speaker 2: and and to and to start to create some level

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Speaker 2: of reform. I'm proud to say, and I think you know,

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Speaker 2: we're about a fifth of the cost of subprime of

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Speaker 2: subprime credit cards, the average consumer spends about thirteen point

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Speaker 2: four percent in addition to their principle after twelve months.

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Speaker 2: And then I'm gonna tell you the only reason is

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Speaker 2: that we don't compound fees. Not the only reason, but

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Speaker 2: we don't believe we don't give you like if you're

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Speaker 2: late every month, we don't charge you late fees every month.

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Speaker 4: There's a one time fee that that's going to dig

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Speaker 4: a hole.

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Speaker 2: And you got to understand, there's no what we have been,

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Speaker 2: what we have learned is that we actually have significantly

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Speaker 2: better repaying the rates.

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Speaker 4: No, I it's easier to get out the hole.

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Speaker 2: It's really hard to pay back one hundred dollars loan

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Speaker 2: that is now two hundred and fifty bucks versus one

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Speaker 2: hundred dollars loan that's now you know, one hundred and

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Speaker 2: thirteen dollars.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's really that simple when we think about it, right,

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Speaker 6: like you don't dig the hole too much, so it's

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Speaker 6: still in reach of a payment.

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Speaker 2: But again, these are just some of the nuances that

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Speaker 2: we decided to do, and I mean to be honest,

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Speaker 2: we took it the extra step. We're one of the

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Speaker 2: few lenders in the space that is a benefit corporation

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Speaker 2: a certified benefit.

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Speaker 4: Corporations via the b Labs. B labs is a nonprofit.

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Speaker 2: Think of it like a governing body who certifies companies.

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Speaker 4: To attain B CORP status.

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Speaker 2: B CORP status is a combination of their certification as

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Speaker 2: well as like literally we submit we actually you know,

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Speaker 2: register with the government as a benefit corporation, which what

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Speaker 2: that ultimately means is that we balance the need for

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Speaker 2: profit alongside for people and we don't.

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Speaker 4: We don't. That's that's important.

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Speaker 2: So they come in and they look at all of

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Speaker 2: our finances, They look at how much money we make,

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Speaker 2: they look at how we play pay our employees, they

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Speaker 2: look at, you know, in terms of how we even

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Speaker 2: promote within and they give scores. But not only did

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Speaker 2: they assess all those different things, they assess our business

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Speaker 2: model and they assessed that, you know, how we're handling

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Speaker 2: our consumers, and it came back very, very positive.

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Speaker 4: But I mean, that's the piece.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you another piece, the average mps's net promoter score.

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Speaker 2: It's how you know you can judge consumer experience. Most

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Speaker 2: financial services companies are around forty. Bank of America is

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Speaker 2: at a twenty two. Our average net promoter score is

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Speaker 2: a ninety.

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Speaker 4: These are these are.

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Speaker 1: That for the people who don't really understand what that means,

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Speaker 1: like what factors go into creating that score.

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00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 2: It's it's really just about it's it's a measure of

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00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,879
Speaker 2: its basically a measure of the amount of consumers that

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Speaker 2: are having a happy experience. So it's a random survey

439
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,680
Speaker 2: that's distributed across all of our users, and it's it's

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Speaker 2: just them being happy. Companies that have really high net

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Speaker 2: promoter scores are companies like Apple and Nike, Patagonia, you

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Speaker 2: know what I mean. These are something not financial service companies.

443
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 2: Put it that way. So we we are extremely proud

444
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 2: of having an MPs like that.

445
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 4: But that's the community part.

446
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:52,679
Speaker 2: Going back to your first question, it's it's because of

447
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 2: that why where we continue to reach the scale that.

448
00:26:56,560 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 1: We are you you said earlier and I've read you said,

449
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: there's a few times, you know, you're innovating and thriving

450
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 1: where companies have failed. You guys are the first company

451
00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 1: in this vertical, particularly black owned company, to find success.

452
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:11,480
Speaker 3: Why do people fail?

453
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: Why is their line of you know, dead startups previous

454
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: to you guys?

455
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 2: Well, I think a lot of people were making products

456
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 2: for middle class America and they're not middle class America.

457
00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 2: One day, I'm going to start a VC firm, and

458
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:39,200
Speaker 2: our goal is to invest in founders who are uniquely

459
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:44,640
Speaker 2: positioned to be experts at the consumers they serve. That's it,

460
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 2: you know, And I think when you look at a

461
00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 2: lot of the fintech innovation. Just look at a lot

462
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,880
Speaker 2: of the fintech innovation, even the the what everyone talked

463
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: about for crypto is going to democratize finance for the people.

464
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 4: You know what I mean, we're not going to talk

465
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:02,040
Speaker 4: about that.

466
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 2: Or you know, you know, credit builders and this this,

467
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:11,719
Speaker 2: These are all Harvard, m I T and Stanford Dies

468
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:14,880
Speaker 2: building products of people that look like you and I

469
00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 2: and they're just where where where I truly believe they

470
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:23,919
Speaker 2: failed is you know, not understanding the consumer. And it

471
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 2: makes perfect sense. I think people got to understand my background.

472
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 2: I'm a trained brand manager from Procter and Gamble.

473
00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 4: I spent five years becoming an expert at a consumer, being.

474
00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 2: Relentless at shipping cases. All right, I worked on Pampers.

475
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 2: Wasn't a dad. But the way I got good is

476
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: becoming an expert at who we serve. And I think

477
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 2: sometimes in fintech's we kind of or you know, we

478
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 2: kind of get we kind of get excited about the

479
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 2: opportunity and you miss the point.

480
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 4: We at Solo are obsessed.

481
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 2: With middle class America to the point where I live

482
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 2: down the street from a payday long London. Trust me,

483
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,240
Speaker 2: I can live a lot of places, but I want

484
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 2: to drive past that line every Friday. I want to.

485
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,600
Speaker 2: I want to. It does something to me, you know

486
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: what I mean? And my co founder lives also down

487
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:31,120
Speaker 2: the street. We're doing these things because we've learned why

488
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 2: our success well, we've learned or we know why some

489
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,200
Speaker 2: of our success has happened, and it's definitely because of

490
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 2: how anchored we are in the consumer we serve.

491
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,959
Speaker 1: You said something similar about community banks before and that

492
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: they weren't really doing what they're designed to do. You know,

493
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: so you said, I think about what the community bank

494
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: is supposed to do, and they're supposed to be lending,

495
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 1: allowing lending and borrowing in the community. You know, I

496
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:05,480
Speaker 1: think about if we look at almost any deeply embedded

497
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: institution or industry, we can find where they failed to

498
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: live up to their promise. How did you know finance

499
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: was one you wanted to tackle and what was your insight?

500
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 1: You talked about being from middle of America, But there's

501
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 1: a lot of things you could have done. There's a

502
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 1: lot of places you could have lived. To your point,

503
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 1: there's a lot of things you could have put your

504
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: efforts and resources into. Why finance.

505
00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 4: You know.

506
00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 2: I wanted to make an impact, and I saw I

507
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: wanted to make a financial impact.

508
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 4: And you know, Travis and I.

509
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:50,120
Speaker 2: We saw a lot of effort pushing capital to small businesses,

510
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 2: entrepreneurs of color, and we were still driving past the

511
00:30:57,400 --> 00:31:01,280
Speaker 2: woman who served me coffee, person who served me a drink,

512
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,520
Speaker 2: and I was still getting picked up in ubers and

513
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:16,200
Speaker 2: they needed support and help too. And for me, I

514
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 2: grew up in a working class family, and working class

515
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: family is who built me. I also know that my

516
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 2: working class family is so working classes no more. They're

517
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 2: doing pretty damn well. It's funny how people who work

518
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,400
Speaker 2: really hard tend to dig themselves out of it.

519
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:37,040
Speaker 4: Right, So I figured, you know, one of the things.

520
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 2: Really the innovation that I would say that's really important

521
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 2: for us, and I usually glance over it. But our

522
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:48,000
Speaker 2: solo score, our underwriting model is impressive. It's currently performing

523
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 2: about four times better than the industry average.

524
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 4: That's all built in house.

525
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 2: All built on a few AI models. Taking we used

526
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:01,600
Speaker 2: to call it the hustle score. It's we're trying, We're

527
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:07,080
Speaker 2: really met. We really designed an underwriting score that measures

528
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 2: a consumer's ability to make and to figure it out

529
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 2: and and that in combination with what we call our

530
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 2: real time or payment product or real real time payment solution,

531
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 2: we h we've kind of removed all of the dumbness.

532
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:33,280
Speaker 2: And I'm going to give you an example. I sign

533
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 2: up for a system I didn't have to pay you

534
00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:44,600
Speaker 2: in a month. Instead of just pre scheduling it or

535
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 2: make it easy to pre schedule, we let consumers miss it.

536
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 2: That's a that's there's enough technology for every bill that

537
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 2: we have today to be automatically connected to us, right.

538
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 2: But that I'm ultimately getting is that we built our

539
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 2: repayment product to continue to monitor out borrowers accounts. So

540
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 2: never have we ever overdrawn, but we're we're we become

541
00:33:11,720 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 2: a partner in their finances, not a predator in their finances.

542
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 2: And that's that gives a little bit to our repayment product.

543
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:23,320
Speaker 2: It's actually the code names get Money. The one of

544
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,120
Speaker 2: the final things that we did, and we were the first,

545
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 2: one of the first companies to do so. We built

546
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 2: our entire payment structure on real time rails way before

547
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,719
Speaker 2: FED now better than Zel, but we built it on

548
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 2: something called Visa Direct and Master Christ saying it's their

549
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 2: proprietary real time debit infrastructure. We were and are still

550
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 2: one of the few lending companies in the world that

551
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: are built.

552
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 4: That's why follow me on Instagram.

553
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 2: I'm always in Visa's office and these are some of

554
00:33:56,040 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 2: the reason why we're always in their office. What does

555
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 2: that allow us to do? That allows us to move

556
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 2: money faster and more efficiently when someone's in need and

557
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 2: when someone needs going to pay alone. Put yourself in

558
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,920
Speaker 2: that single mom that I talked about, who knows exactly

559
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 2: when her.

560
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 4: Netflix built is gonna come out.

561
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 2: So if she says, solo, you need to pull this

562
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 2: money on the fourth, if you pull it too late,

563
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 2: you're not gonna get it.

564
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 4: That's what she's also telling us.

565
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:40,320
Speaker 2: So we needed a real that's nobody, honestly, quite frankly,

566
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 2: no one who looks like me really understands that that

567
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 2: you need to pull money exactly when it's available.

568
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 4: It cannot be a delay because all of that.

569
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 2: You know, when things get pending in the ach, something's

570
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:52,320
Speaker 2: gonna fall short.

571
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 4: And that goes both ways.

572
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: So we spent a lot of extra capital spending this

573
00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,760
Speaker 2: real time product.

574
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 4: And I will tell you that's some of the I.

575
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:04,880
Speaker 2: Just kind of gave you the three part secret sauce

576
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 2: to why we exist.

577
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: It was a quote I read where you said, our

578
00:35:10,080 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 1: goal is not for borrowers to remain borrowers. I think

579
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: Travis said this, Actually, our goal is not for borrows

580
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:18,360
Speaker 1: to remain borrows on this platform forever. So how do

581
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 1: you think then about retention and which metrics matter to you?

582
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: Since pretty early in the in the in the life

583
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 2: of the company, our bars.

584
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 3: Have also lent, so they've graduated.

585
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 4: They graduated. I'm pretty happy about that rate.

586
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:43,400
Speaker 2: It's fantastic because it goes back to the original assumption.

587
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:44,759
Speaker 4: They're not illiterate.

588
00:35:46,040 --> 00:35:51,320
Speaker 2: They just have a cash need today, right, and and

589
00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:52,840
Speaker 2: if you give them a way to get out of it,

590
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 2: and they're not only just going to get out of it,

591
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 2: they're going to thrive.

592
00:35:55,360 --> 00:35:58,959
Speaker 4: In six months. I mean, we we have examples of.

593
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,120
Speaker 2: One of my favorite examples, it was in the CNBC

594
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: article is an engineer at San Francisco. He lost his job.

595
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 2: He used US for a couple months three hundred, four hundred,

596
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 2: five hundred bucks. Eventually he got a huge six figure job.

597
00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 2: He became a prolific lender on the platform.

598
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 4: Is that if that's not everyday Americans? I don't know

599
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 4: who that is, right, this person.

600
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 2: I mean, that's the life of an average American is

601
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 2: that at the end of the day, job.

602
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 4: Security is not what it meant twenty years ago.

603
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 2: Like no one's at GM working for twenty five years.

604
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 2: Job security today is fleeting for every American, especially if

605
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,879
Speaker 2: you're fresh out of college. You know what I'm saying,

606
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,000
Speaker 2: under thirty five years old, you haven't really got your

607
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 2: footing and your career. You're in and you're in and

608
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 2: out of jobs despite being.

609
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 4: Very, very educated.

610
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,719
Speaker 2: So these are just some of the nuances that we

611
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 2: eventually know that you will land, and you're going to

612
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,240
Speaker 2: land and do really well, and you're going to be

613
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 2: a thriving member of the society. And and you know what,

614
00:37:16,520 --> 00:37:19,600
Speaker 2: you for some reason have a connection with Solo that

615
00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:21,759
Speaker 2: no one can break because Solo.

616
00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 4: Was there when you needed them most. No other financial

617
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:25,880
Speaker 4: institution was.

618
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,600
Speaker 1: Wow, I want to dig into your mindset a little bit.

619
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated by the way you think. And

620
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 1: I learned this and doing research for this conversation, that

621
00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:37,960
Speaker 1: there was a time just a few years ago before

622
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,840
Speaker 1: the surgeon users that you know, Solo Funds was almost

623
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 1: out of business.

624
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:44,439
Speaker 3: I mean it was expectively out of money.

625
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: You know, I want to know about your mindset in

626
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 1: those moments where you're facing existential threats to your business

627
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,240
Speaker 1: and you've gone head to head.

628
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 3: With major players at your.

629
00:37:56,440 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: Previous companies and when those were still startups.

630
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:01,800
Speaker 3: Who do you put yourself?

631
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: I want to like how Rodney's mind works. Who do

632
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: you put yourself around? Or what is your mindset when

633
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: it feels like all the moves in front of you

634
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,760
Speaker 1: have to be played precisely, incorrectly in order to stay alive.

635
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: Much less fine success, but just to stay alive, like

636
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 1: so many people don't come back from that. And so

637
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:23,120
Speaker 1: I'm interested in how Rodney thinks about these sorts of threats.

638
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,360
Speaker 2: You know, looking back at them, I would tell you

639
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:33,120
Speaker 2: that they are very expensive. And what I mean by

640
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 2: that is they're expensive on your social relationships. They're expensive

641
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 2: on your romantic relationships because it's a bit irrational, too empty,

642
00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: they account like, I don't know what else to tell you.

643
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 2: It's a bit irrational. It's a bit irrational to say

644
00:38:56,960 --> 00:38:59,359
Speaker 2: I'm not to you know, to your significant other, I'm

645
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:04,319
Speaker 2: not giving you Christmas gift this year. You're gonna have

646
00:39:04,360 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 2: to wait or you know we're gonna you know, we're

647
00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 2: not gonna go home for the holidays. These are things

648
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 2: that I've had to do so and unfortunately, most of

649
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:24,560
Speaker 2: the time, most of the network don't really understand this

650
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 2: kind of belief that's rooted in data. I've never made

651
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 2: these decisions. I've never made these decisions based off of gut.

652
00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 4: I'm a p and ger. Don't let my wildness fool anybody.

653
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:47,520
Speaker 4: We lead on paper, and I don't need as much

654
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:49,719
Speaker 4: paper as most pgs. That's what I said.

655
00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:52,360
Speaker 2: I don't give me two sentences in a bullet point

656
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 2: and I'm probably gonna I can do the rest. But

657
00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 2: what I'm ultimately saying is that you know, at some

658
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 2: point you get to a conclusion that the opportunity outweighs

659
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 2: the risk and the cost, and that little bit of

660
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 2: information is something that you are the only person in

661
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:13,240
Speaker 2: the world that knows.

662
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:17,200
Speaker 4: So you just have to get through this moment, and

663
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 4: if you can get through the moment, it will pay

664
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 4: for you. I wish it was easier, you know.

665
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 2: I look at my counterparts will get to go and

666
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 2: raise hundreds of millions.

667
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 4: Of dollars because they.

668
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:40,440
Speaker 2: Know someone at andresen or their father is an executive

669
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:46,280
Speaker 2: at Goldman Sachs. I wish that I had those level

670
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,399
Speaker 2: of security, but I don't. So that means you swing

671
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 2: for defenses. But I will not lie to anyone listening

672
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,520
Speaker 2: on this call. The cost is expensive. There's a lot

673
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 2: of relationships I had to sacrifice to get here.

674
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:03,839
Speaker 4: There are a lot of.

675
00:41:06,280 --> 00:41:10,880
Speaker 2: Moments that I had to miss to get here, and

676
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 2: and and if you want to be an entrepreneur and

677
00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 2: be a founder, and you're not willing to do those things, you.

678
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:21,279
Speaker 4: Should do something else.

679
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: You know you should, because you may you may waste

680
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,879
Speaker 2: someone's money, and you're definitely gonna waste your time.

681
00:41:36,480 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 5: M H.

682
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: Black Tech Green Money is a production of Blavity, Afrotech

683
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,560
Speaker 1: on the Black Effect Podcast Network and I Hire Media

684
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 1: and it's produced by Morgan Debonne and me Well Lucas,

685
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 1: with the additional production support by Sarah Ergan and Rose

686
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:57,719
Speaker 1: mc lucas.

687
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,960
Speaker 3: Special thank you to MICUs David Sapping. That's a Serrano.

688
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:04,080
Speaker 1: Learn more about my guests and other tech dissent innovators

689
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,879
Speaker 1: at afrotech dot com. Enjoy your black Tech three money,

690
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: Share this with somebody, Go get your money, Peace and love,