Speaker 1: Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio and The Black Effect. Hey, everybody, I'm.
Speaker 2: Really really thrilled.
Speaker 1: Humbled and excited to have someone truly special. Our paths
Speaker 1: crossed in so many different ways. We're threaded amongst people
Speaker 1: that we love so much, award winning artists. Some is
Speaker 1: just going on in her throat that I don't. It's
Speaker 1: so special and inductive into the Canadian Music Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: Broadway actress producer. Y'all, welcome, Miss Deborah Cowx.
Speaker 2: Hey, thank you for that introduction.
Speaker 1: Girl.
Speaker 2: You are just awesome. Thank you from another awesome woman,
Speaker 2: and thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: People don't realize that it just didn't happen and you
Speaker 1: just popped on the scene. You've been doing this for decades.
Speaker 2: I've been doing this since I was twelve.
Speaker 3: I was twelve years old, doing commercial jingles, doing background vocals.
Speaker 2: Doing birthday parties, doing talent shows.
Speaker 3: Like I was a little girl in the neighborhood. That's
Speaker 3: saying everybody knew who I was and what I did.
Speaker 3: Summertime block parties, any opportunity to just get in front
Speaker 3: of an audience or just to sing. You know what,
Speaker 3: I mean that was my church. I didn't grow up
Speaker 3: in a church, a gospel choir and that kind of thing.
Speaker 3: So my church was being able to just be in
Speaker 3: a setting where I was able to perform and use
Speaker 3: my God given talent. And that's how I came up
Speaker 3: the ranks, you know. And I wouldn't change it for
Speaker 3: the world.
Speaker 1: People would assume because of your vocal style that you
Speaker 1: had to have grown up in the church or some
Speaker 1: type of bluesy gospelly background.
Speaker 3: Right, But honestly, I listened to a lot. I think
Speaker 3: I would say that I was enamored and engaged in
Speaker 3: the spirit. At a very early age, I knew that
Speaker 3: I wanted to do message music. I wanted to do
Speaker 3: music that was going to be inspiring, insightful, empowering, and
Speaker 3: it didn't matter if it was quote a gospel song
Speaker 3: or a song that was of a different format that
Speaker 3: was just empowering or positive. So I knew that that
Speaker 3: was the lane that I wanted to be in, you know.
Speaker 3: And later on when I was in my like around
Speaker 3: high school time, I listened to a lot of BB
Speaker 3: and CC winings. I listened to a lot of Yolanda
Speaker 3: Adams and those were my vocal coaches per se, and
Speaker 3: of course Whitney Houston, who was a major major impact
Speaker 3: in the sense that I knew that if I was
Speaker 3: going to embark on a solo career, it would be
Speaker 3: modeled after a person like her who sang all different
Speaker 3: genres of music. But you know what I'm saying, she
Speaker 3: never diminished her vocal ability.
Speaker 2: Come on, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to fast forward too fast,
Speaker 1: but I'll go to do you know dogether, y'all got
Speaker 1: to do a song together and going back to your
Speaker 1: to the beginning. I love telling young people don't despise
Speaker 1: you know, you might be being in the background, or
Speaker 1: you might be assisting the person. But if I am
Speaker 1: not mistaken, did you for a small time singing with
Speaker 1: Celine Dion you sang back?
Speaker 3: I did?
Speaker 2: I did.
Speaker 4: A lot of the artists that I sang background for
Speaker 4: were artists that helped to shape how I wanted to
Speaker 4: come into the industry, if.
Speaker 2: That makes sense.
Speaker 3: I mean, I I knew music was what I loved,
Speaker 3: but I did not want it to be compromised, and
Speaker 3: I didn't want my life and the way that I
Speaker 3: wanted to live a life.
Speaker 2: I didn't want that to be compromised.
Speaker 3: So there were a lot of no's in the sense
Speaker 3: that I said no to a lot of things because
Speaker 3: I knew it would require me to just be either
Speaker 3: gone away from family or away from like my my foundation,
Speaker 3: and so I would say no to those kind of projects.
Speaker 2: Or I would say.
Speaker 3: Yes to something that was not as as much as
Speaker 3: a big starring role, but it was more with people
Speaker 3: that I like to work with, or you know what
Speaker 3: I mean.
Speaker 2: So a lot of it.
Speaker 1: We hear a lot about rejection. You're hearing a lot
Speaker 1: of no in the industry. The famous thing that I
Speaker 1: hear sometimes is love you so much, We're just going
Speaker 1: to go in another direction.
Speaker 2: We're going to go in another direction.
Speaker 1: You know that co for best code for bye girl bye,
Speaker 1: we love you. But all right, what you I like
Speaker 1: hearing where you said no yeaes to some things. And
Speaker 1: it wasn't always about it. If it was number one
Speaker 1: on the right, what do we call them? Even on
Speaker 1: Broadway someone said, well, if Michelle takes this role, her
Speaker 1: name won't be the first on the board. And I
Speaker 1: don't care. Just make my name the order.
Speaker 3: Of exactly right and let it. Let it be right
Speaker 3: on the Let let be right on the pay check.
Speaker 1: I don't know there's a line on the check. Some
Speaker 1: of y'all young folks don't know nothing about a check
Speaker 1: because everything is digitally deposit. But on a check, there's
Speaker 1: a line that says pay to the order. Uh long
Speaker 1: is my name in that acne and everything? Your name
Speaker 1: right or your company company name.
Speaker 2: Just just make sure.
Speaker 3: That you make sure that that's right, and make sure
Speaker 3: that those zeros are right too.
Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying that is.
Speaker 2: The amount the amount of zeros, but you know a
Speaker 2: lot of I'll tell a story.
Speaker 3: There was there was one time that I was paid
Speaker 3: more than a big global artist. I'm not going to
Speaker 3: mention the name, but that was when and this was
Speaker 3: this was really in the nineties, like I was really
Speaker 3: writing off of that nobody's supposed to be here. So
Speaker 3: I was doing a lot of shows and that check
Speaker 3: was right, and I was actually making more than the
Speaker 3: person I was opening for. But for optics. So I'm
Speaker 3: just saying. I say that to say that you can't
Speaker 3: always do things from your ego. There's going to be
Speaker 3: a lot of moments where you have to check your
Speaker 3: ego and just you know what I mean, do things
Speaker 3: for the love of it, do things for your passion.
Speaker 3: And that's how I've moved in my career. And I
Speaker 3: learned that very early on, that it's not about it's
Speaker 3: not about, you know, my ego. It's about playing the
Speaker 3: part that needs to be played in whatever capacity. And
Speaker 3: so that's what I do, okay.
Speaker 1: Which leads me to I was telling your publicis Randy.
Speaker 1: I said, I just want to glean and get wisdom,
Speaker 1: and here you are, not knowing that sharing wisdom, not
Speaker 1: to do things from your ego, which I believe leads
Speaker 1: to your longevity in this music business.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: You speak to that and some more to that.
Speaker 3: I actually learned this. Angela Bassett said something to me
Speaker 3: when we were working on the Lifetime film, and it
Speaker 3: was about protecting an artist that we know and love,
Speaker 3: and I remember her saying that we're here to serve.
Speaker 3: We're here to use our gifts, use our gifts, and
Speaker 3: use our talents to serve whatever the piece is or
Speaker 3: to serve the audience. And so if you have that
Speaker 3: perspective all the time, then you will always always be
Speaker 3: in your purpose. Now you don't have to go to
Speaker 3: church to do that. You know what I'm saying, You
Speaker 3: just have to live in your truth. And so I
Speaker 3: feel like that's part of the reason why I've always
Speaker 3: I'm not phased by this industry. I'm not phased by anything.
Speaker 3: I'm not phased by any of it because I know
Speaker 3: my truth and I stand on that, and I do
Speaker 3: things that just make me feel good. And if and
Speaker 3: that might discourage other people or not discouraged, that might
Speaker 3: not be in other people's view. But as long as
Speaker 3: I'm happy with me and I can sleep at night,
Speaker 3: I'm good. Yes, And that is my commitment to myself.
Speaker 1: Knowing your commitment to yourself, knowing purpose helps you. And
Speaker 1: this interview is gonna also be reflective of how I've
Speaker 1: seen you move through the years. You're able to move,
Speaker 1: You're able to serve and have purpose, and you don't
Speaker 1: have like this chip on your shoulder.
Speaker 2: You are.
Speaker 1: You were inducted into the Canadian Music Hall of Fame,
Speaker 1: the first female black.
Speaker 3: Artist, Yes, first black woman to be inducted into the
Speaker 3: music the Canadian Music Hall of Fame. And what does
Speaker 3: that mean to me? Well, when I meant when you
Speaker 3: say that in the world of Drake being the biggest
Speaker 3: you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: No one believes that, no one can believe.
Speaker 3: But I remember the struggle to just see black images
Speaker 3: on television. I didn't grow up with bet and that
Speaker 3: kind of stuff, So that stuff came into Canada in
Speaker 3: the nineties, you know what I'm saying. So it was
Speaker 3: through listening to my mother's records, like listening to the greats,
Speaker 3: listening to the record that she had.
Speaker 2: That was what was. That was my.
Speaker 3: Introduction to R and B and soul music and just
Speaker 3: you know, Black American culture, which was really impact you know,
Speaker 3: impacted me and my parents in a in a in
Speaker 3: a very in a huge way, much like this show
Speaker 3: The Whiz When I tell people I saw the film
Speaker 3: as as a young kid. I remember the VHS, you
Speaker 3: know what I mean, and putting that thing in and going,
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, because I was obsessed with Michael Jackson
Speaker 3: and that was the that was the.
Speaker 2: Calling card for me to watch it.
Speaker 3: And then seeing Diana Ross and I was like, oh
Speaker 3: my gosh, this woman is playing in a fantasy world.
Speaker 3: I didn't know that as a black kid you could
Speaker 3: do that. You could just go off and just dream
Speaker 3: about this other magical mythical place, you know, and so.
Speaker 2: You know, it's only looking back that I recognize all
Speaker 2: this stuff. And sometimes that's just how the journey is.
Speaker 3: It's not until you are past where you have come
Speaker 3: from that you actually see the path and you see
Speaker 3: the journey, you know what I mean. So that's why
Speaker 3: I tell people just trust the process. There's gonna be
Speaker 3: moments where it's uncomfortable, and but those are the times
Speaker 3: that really test you and really show you what you're
Speaker 3: made of. I remember shadowing you when you were doing Aida,
Speaker 3: and I remember thinking, Wow, Michelle is a part of
Speaker 3: this iconic group and doing Broadway, stepping away to do Broadway.
Speaker 2: That's a big decision. That's a big decision to do
Speaker 2: eight shows a week, hikey.
Speaker 1: Girl, eight shows a week.
Speaker 3: Yes, and you are the lead. Listen that show. Hope
Speaker 3: is no joke, a lot of singing.
Speaker 1: You wait, I was put in, I was put in.
Speaker 1: I came after Tony Braxton, so heatherhead Lee, Michelle Williams,
Speaker 1: Devorah Cox and if I'm not did Erica Campbell do
Speaker 1: a stint? And Aita?
Speaker 2: I think she was supposed to.
Speaker 3: She tells the story she didn't do the show, but Okay, wow.
Speaker 2: Wait a second of put In.
Speaker 1: I was put in, so y'all, y'all, Okay, we're definitely
Speaker 1: having this conversation amongst two girls, right, so listen. So
Speaker 1: put In is basically the show was already on its feet,
Speaker 1: it's already on Broadway or it's already touring, and you
Speaker 1: literally are put in the show. You rehearse hours a
Speaker 1: couple hours before the show. It's kind of like, and
Speaker 1: I used to feel so bad for the folks who
Speaker 1: had a show at eight o'clock, but you had to
Speaker 1: rehearse with me from nine am to six am. So
Speaker 1: you're put in, right, the show is already going, So
Speaker 1: you're rehearsing in the day while the show is gonna
Speaker 1: go up at night. And then you were about six weeks.
Speaker 1: I think you have a minimum or maximum of six
Speaker 1: weeks to learn every thing and then you literally get
Speaker 1: put in a show that's already existing. Let me tell y'all,
Speaker 1: was born for this because Destiny's child was already go
Speaker 1: away and then I was put in. So for these
Speaker 1: moments you are built, yes, and here you come to
Speaker 1: get put in aita after me and a court, I'm
Speaker 1: kind of like, I come after Tony Braxton. I'm in
Speaker 1: the sandwich of two vocal very different vocal powerhouses, Tony
Speaker 1: carrying the heaviness the alto and Deborah coming in as
Speaker 1: that belting soprano.
Speaker 2: But you just.
Speaker 1: Don't sleep on Deborah, Ye.
Speaker 2: Don't sleep and so yes, So.
Speaker 1: That's what we mean by putting in So that was
Speaker 1: when in two thousand.
Speaker 2: And four, Yeah, you were put in a girl.
Speaker 3: Yes, And I always remember just just how gracious, how
Speaker 3: kind aimed you were to just showing me just where
Speaker 3: to go.
Speaker 2: On the stage. I never been on no Broadway stage
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 3: And you know, you have to, like, I'm a very
Speaker 3: visual person, and I'm the kind of person that need
Speaker 3: to be in the situation to kind of feel out
Speaker 3: just the characters and feel the dancers around.
Speaker 2: Me, and that kind of thing I'm not really good.
Speaker 3: With, like rehearsal, just in a rehearsal spot and then
Speaker 3: go on, like I need to be in it at least.
Speaker 3: So you were so detailed with the direction, you would
Speaker 3: be like, Okay, you're gonna stand here, this piece is
Speaker 3: gonna be moving here, you're gonna turn here, You're gonna
Speaker 3: have to do this is a good time to sip
Speaker 3: your water like nobody does that. Those moments girl, when
Speaker 3: I think about going into Dance of the Road and
Speaker 3: I go this where Michelle said, this a good time
Speaker 3: to take a sip of water, and she's right, because
Speaker 3: you know, you don't have no time. You're literally going
Speaker 3: from scene to scene to see yes the piece that
Speaker 3: don't nobody tell you that these are like the hard
Speaker 3: knock life is what you learn on broad Way when
Speaker 3: you get like hitting the shoulder with something that happens.
Speaker 3: But you know what I'm saying, Like, no one tells
Speaker 3: you those little nuances. A director can't tell you because
Speaker 3: they're not in your place. They can only tell you
Speaker 3: from the perspective that they're watching you. But to have
Speaker 3: that moment to shadow you and go through the scenes
Speaker 3: and stuff, that was really really helpful. From my first
Speaker 3: time on a Broadway stage. I mean I had done music. Yeah,
Speaker 3: the Broadway stage is no joke.
Speaker 1: It's different because the people don't realize. Deborah, you can
Speaker 1: command your own stage. When Deborah Cox is on the tour,
Speaker 1: you go from left to right, you go on the audience.
Speaker 1: If you want to. You can sing from backstage. But
Speaker 1: I don't know you can sing in your dressing room
Speaker 1: doing the quick chain, but Broadway you got to be
Speaker 1: on mark zero, mark two, stage less, right upstage downstage
Speaker 1: so and the good thing a shows a week. People
Speaker 1: will think, oh, that's got to be damaging to your
Speaker 1: vocal cords. For me, it was actually strengthening and it's
Speaker 1: starting to be muscle memory. Yes, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: But for you by the sixth For me, by the
Speaker 1: sixth show, I could I could start feeling some I
Speaker 1: need to shut up, which, y'all. By the way, we're
Speaker 1: gonna get to what miss Debora is doing now, y'all. Right, now,
Speaker 1: Deborah should be resting, but she is talking to me.
Speaker 1: She is in The Wiz, playing Glenda the good Witch.
Speaker 1: Not only is she in the Wiz, she is one
Speaker 1: of the producers.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, her.
Speaker 1: Production company, which and her and her husband, they are
Speaker 1: producers of the Wiz.
Speaker 2: Now, y'all.
Speaker 1: Before the Wiz, Hoddey, she's been bodying a lot of roles.
Speaker 1: One of the roles that was really difficult was Josephine
Speaker 1: Baker mm hmm, okay.
Speaker 2: And how about that didn't that didn't go to Broadway.
Speaker 1: It didn't go to Broadway.
Speaker 2: So that it just shows you the journey.
Speaker 1: Yes, you toured and the show. They kept saying it's
Speaker 1: hard to find a theater. It's hard to find a theater,
Speaker 1: blah blah, blah blah blah. And you did not just
Speaker 1: to get discouraged, y'all. I believe when The Wiz goes
Speaker 1: to Broadway. I'm excited about your Tony nomination for many
Speaker 1: you got to get you win. You gotta get the
Speaker 1: nomination before you win something, y'all. So we're gonna go
Speaker 1: with the minimum nomination.
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right.
Speaker 1: That journey, ben, y'all rehearsed The Wiz. Yeah, you were
Speaker 1: able to be in it from the ground up. You're
Speaker 1: not being put in You're actually been a part of
Speaker 1: the work correction process of the workshop. That's what it's called.
Speaker 1: The Works of the Wiz. Y'all are on tour right now,
Speaker 1: y'all tell us how it's being.
Speaker 3: It's been really like a great journey, you know, like
Speaker 3: I feel like I'm in a real amazing cast of
Speaker 3: people that are super super talented and telling the story
Speaker 3: in the way that it needs to be told.
Speaker 2: The essence of the story of.
Speaker 3: The Whiz is We've kept that Amber Ruffin rewrote it
Speaker 3: and re imagined it. The book is solid, you know.
Speaker 3: With the set designed Girl. We have Academy Award winner
Speaker 3: Hannah Beechler who designed the sets. The set is incredible.
Speaker 3: Then the costumes, I was so excited to reveal my
Speaker 3: costume because I have been a fan of this woman
Speaker 3: and didn't even know that we would end up working together.
Speaker 3: Sharon Davis designed the costumes and they're all incredible.
Speaker 1: Every single costume is.
Speaker 2: I mean, and I just wear it proudly. You know,
Speaker 2: she is just her.
Speaker 3: The imagination that went into all of the designs are incredible.
Speaker 3: Jab Well for the choreography incredible, all different styles of
Speaker 3: dance from all different types, all different genres of music.
Speaker 3: We got Joseph Jubert, who is you know, the musical
Speaker 3: director supervisor who is incredible, who was my MD as well.
Speaker 3: And Shelley Williams brought it all home.
Speaker 1: Are you giving liberty vocally to be Deborah at moments?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think that this is probably the most mythical, magical
Speaker 3: character that I've been in. So I have complete full
Speaker 3: range of how I want to sing the songs, and
Speaker 3: that to me was really intriguing, you know, it means
Speaker 3: more to me that I'm able to really create a
Speaker 3: new Glinda than it is, and obviously being a co
Speaker 3: producer to really helps me know that this investment that
Speaker 3: I'm making.
Speaker 2: Is to continue the incredible legacy of the show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, do you know Shelley's IDA history, don't you?
Speaker 3: Shelley Williams is id a history. Yes, we were doing
Speaker 3: the show. You've done the show with show.
Speaker 1: She was Maheka has an understudy.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, it came up the ranks, like she knows
Speaker 3: this industry in and out and has given some up
Speaker 3: given the cast because there's a lot of new Broadway
Speaker 3: babies coming in this show. A lot of people were
Speaker 3: it's their very very first time, and she's given us
Speaker 3: so many gems to work with to help us maintain
Speaker 3: that eight week schedule, eight show a week schedule and
Speaker 3: to keep us, you know, keep our eye on the
Speaker 3: prize because it can.
Speaker 2: Get really tough. You know, it can be really tough
Speaker 2: dealing with things on the road. You know, we're all
Speaker 2: away from home, but.
Speaker 3: We all have to create our family so that we
Speaker 3: can help each other and lift each other up during
Speaker 3: this process because it is a process, you know, it's
Speaker 3: a lot of work. It's a lot of work, but
Speaker 3: it's worth it. And when you find those projects that
Speaker 3: make you feel it's worth it, then you're good.
Speaker 2: I also wanted to mention Kirk.
Speaker 3: Kirk Cambridge did the design for the makeup, and he said,
Speaker 3: oh love, Michelle, is he out there?
Speaker 2: He is. He's on the road too. It's a solid team.
Speaker 1: Tell Kirk, I say, hello, he designed for Fella. Is
Speaker 1: a hamp?
Speaker 2: Is he?
Speaker 1: You know? Now? Hopefully maybe I don't know if he
Speaker 1: is yet, but you know, he cooks, so.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: He likes his soup like a There's a suit that
Speaker 1: he would like to do and if you're sick, he
Speaker 1: will cook this suit. So shout out to you, Kirk
Speaker 1: and Kirk. Shout out to Kirk. And again y'all. I'm
Speaker 1: not going to hold her along because I'm the type
Speaker 1: of person doing theater eight shows the week I'd be
Speaker 1: in the bed, sleep or doing or shutting up. I
Speaker 1: do want to pivot to nobody supposed to be her
Speaker 1: turning twenty five years this year?
Speaker 2: Can you believe that? I mean, it.
Speaker 1: Is so many milestones for you this year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like I'm in a really great space.
Speaker 2: Mentally, I feel like creatively, I'm actually.
Speaker 3: Doing something that I'm really excited about and then creating
Speaker 3: it in a different medium. I cannot believe it's been
Speaker 3: twenty five years since nobody's supposed to be here, but
Speaker 3: it is what it is. Time just keeps moving and
Speaker 3: you just got to keep rolling with it and.
Speaker 2: Keep moving forward.
Speaker 3: And that's kind of what I've always done, you know,
Speaker 3: kept my circle very small. You're part of that small circle,
Speaker 3: you know, people that are like empowering and just you know, encouraging,
Speaker 3: because that's what we need.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: This industry depletes and takes and takes and takes and
Speaker 3: takes until you have no more, nothing less to get right,
Speaker 3: you know. So it's it's wonderful to be able to
Speaker 3: like share and talk to you. And I love this
Speaker 3: platform that you've created about mental health. A lot of
Speaker 3: people may not know, but my father was mentally ill,
Speaker 3: my biological father. Yeah, And when I finally met him
Speaker 3: late because he was in a whole other country, I
Speaker 3: didn't grow up with him. But once I found out,
Speaker 3: I had this this magic this I.
Speaker 2: Had this big vision of who he was.
Speaker 3: As a dad, and I always envisioned what my life
Speaker 3: would have been maybe if I was living with him.
Speaker 2: But when my mother told me, your father.
Speaker 3: Your biological father, is mentally ill, and that was part
Speaker 3: of the reason why I had to leave with you
Speaker 3: on my hip.
Speaker 2: Just also when we left and had to flee to
Speaker 2: the Bronx because he came became very violent.
Speaker 3: But I say that to say that you know, you
Speaker 3: can have this vision of or you can have You
Speaker 3: can be very idealistic about what you think you should
Speaker 3: be or or what your life should be, and then
Speaker 3: the reality kicks in and the circumstance that you're in
Speaker 3: is what forges you to move forward or to make change.
Speaker 2: And that was what helped me to kind of just
Speaker 2: move forward.
Speaker 3: It was like, Okay, I made peace with the reality
Speaker 3: that I would not have that kind of relationship father
Speaker 3: daughter relationship that I envisioned, and so a lot of
Speaker 3: it I had to lean on myself. And so when
Speaker 3: I'm singing that song believe in yourself, you know, when
Speaker 3: I'm literally singing that to little Dorothy, I'm holding back
Speaker 3: tears because it's like a mantra to myself.
Speaker 2: Had I not done that, I don't know that I.
Speaker 3: Would even be here today to be even to tell
Speaker 3: that story, because at the end of the day, Michelle,
Speaker 3: like you say, like we all say, once we figure
Speaker 3: it out, you can only depend on you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you so much for sharing, because checking in
Speaker 1: and the foundation of checking in is about mental health.
Speaker 1: But I love it's a whole the spectrum of conversations
Speaker 1: going to so many different directions, and I never want
Speaker 1: someone to think it's all going to be practitioners and
Speaker 1: medicinal But for you sharing you you also, I don't
Speaker 1: know if you knew that knew this, but as I've
Speaker 1: been learning about how to grieve losses, yeah, acceptance is
Speaker 1: one of the steps in grieving laws. Yes, you said
Speaker 1: you had to accept the fact that the relationship with
Speaker 1: your father that you wanted could not be right. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I grew up with the Huxtables.
Speaker 3: I grew up with, you know, seeing all these shows
Speaker 3: with the perfect family, and I wanted that for myself.
Speaker 2: And so when I found.
Speaker 3: Out that there would never ever be that connect I
Speaker 3: would never have that with my father, I had to
Speaker 3: make peace with that, and I made peace with it
Speaker 3: at an early age, and music became much Music was
Speaker 3: my outlet. I was like, I need to find a
Speaker 3: way to release this pain or this or grief because
Speaker 3: I felt like.
Speaker 2: I'll never grow up with him, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: Like I realized that this is part of the reason
Speaker 3: why I'm very sort of clinging. Like you know, my
Speaker 3: early years, I was very sort of needy, eager to
Speaker 3: please all the time. I came into this industry, eager
Speaker 3: to please like you know thisbody, you know what I mean,
Speaker 3: And it became very detrimental to my mental health and
Speaker 3: I had to like figure it out. And I figured
Speaker 3: it out. It was like, don't hold onto the ideals.
Speaker 3: It's okay too to be inspired by and to want something,
Speaker 3: but don't let that want be a detriment to your
Speaker 3: own you know, your respect for yourself.
Speaker 1: And it's a pure want, by the way, it's pure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: a daughter wanting the love of her father, right, So
Speaker 1: that is absolutely it's a pure desire to pure want.
Speaker 1: And have you ever found that the shows that you do,
Speaker 1: specifically theater, that it mirrors something that you walk through
Speaker 1: or currently walking through, Like you just said the song
Speaker 1: Believe in Yourself?
Speaker 2: Yes, wow girl, oh yes, yes wow.
Speaker 3: And even the shows that didn't happen, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean, it's all a journey. I remember being told
Speaker 3: that I probably wouldn't be back on Broadway because I
Speaker 3: said no to another scenario, another show scenario.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember this.
Speaker 3: But I felt okay walking away from that project. I said,
Speaker 3: you know what, I'm going to walk away knowing that
Speaker 3: I gave my absolute best in all to this production
Speaker 3: and and I'm good with it. And when I and
Speaker 3: when I did that, it was like, it's okay, It's okay,
Speaker 3: because you know, when you I feel like the universe
Speaker 3: gives you what your intention is. Like the universe like
Speaker 3: knows where your heart is. And if you walk away
Speaker 3: with evil or you.
Speaker 2: Know, that stuff is karma.
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying. It goes both ways, good
Speaker 3: and bad. And so I've always just sort of tried
Speaker 3: to live my life with like, just as long as
Speaker 3: you have good intentions about something, let that be what it's,
Speaker 3: what it's for, and.
Speaker 2: Let that serve you, and then it'll come back in
Speaker 2: some way, shape or form. You know the goodness of
Speaker 2: that act, you know, and you.
Speaker 1: Talked about this twice in this episode, how you have
Speaker 1: had to say no. It takes strength to say no.
Speaker 1: It takes even yeah, and maybe even takes you being
Speaker 1: clear in your identity, because when you're clear in your identity,
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, I won't tolerate this. Yeah, I can't
Speaker 1: stand for this. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it goes Yeah.
Speaker 3: You cannot give oxygen to toxicity.
Speaker 2: You just can't.
Speaker 3: You know, you have to know that there's more for yourself,
Speaker 3: that you deserve more, that you're worth more, and remove
Speaker 3: yourself from those spaces, from those places and from those.
Speaker 2: People that are going to feed into the.
Speaker 3: Toxic negativity that it's just not it will just it
Speaker 3: will not serve you at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: and then that in turn makes you not able to
Speaker 3: serve others.
Speaker 2: That's it.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, let the church say a man seriously
Speaker 1: on that. No, I am not gonna hold you because
Speaker 1: I know you got to get some rest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you for just giving us.
Speaker 1: Some time and checking sure in the middle of your schedule,
Speaker 1: so we really really of course I'm excited. Tell us
Speaker 1: so the winds you're currently touring into.
Speaker 2: Yes, we're currently touring.
Speaker 3: We're hitting all we're hitting thirteen cities altogether, and then
Speaker 3: we hit Broadway in April twenty twenty four, so tickets
Speaker 3: will go on sale in November for Broadway.
Speaker 5: So you can buy tickets for Broadway then, And if
Speaker 5: you do happen to be in a city where you
Speaker 5: can catch the show, come to either DC, Atlanta, Chicago,
Speaker 5: Des Moines, Iowa.
Speaker 2: La, San Diego, San Francisco.
Speaker 3: We're hitting all the city and in Los Angeles and
Speaker 3: then we head to Broadway.
Speaker 1: Then you had to Broadway. Yeah, please make sure you
Speaker 1: go check out the withz starting my good friend Deborah Cox.
Speaker 1: The are off. There's so many awesome voices in here.
Speaker 1: You can ask you about every Wilson, Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: all together. But I'll wait to see the show.
Speaker 2: No, not yet, but I wish listen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll make sure to come see y'all and love
Speaker 1: all please do. I gotta do the BES edition for
Speaker 1: the second time. Thank you for being with us today.
Speaker 2: Thank you, take care.
Speaker 1: Of love all right.
Speaker 6: We'll see all right, God blas, thank you, Bye bye bye.
Speaker 1: Checking In with Michelle Williams is a production of iHeartRadio
Speaker 1: and The Black Effect. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit
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