1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Epstein's sex assault victim, Virginia 2 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: Geffrey is dead, the fourth fourth suicide connected to a 3 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: sex ring of the rich and powerful. This as the 4 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: FEDS are set to release damning files, pointing the finger 5 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: at who darn and now Giffrey won't get to be 6 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: a witness? What a kwinki dink? I mean? What are 7 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:47,480 Speaker 1: the Vegas odds that four people connected to the Epstein 8 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: sex ring child sex ring die of suicide? What are 9 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: the Vegas odds? I'm Nancy Grace, this is christ I 10 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: want to thank you for being with us. 11 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 2: Virginia Jeffree is a sixteen year old locker room attendant 12 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:07,119 Speaker 2: in mar A Lago when she is approached by socialite 13 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: Gallaine Maxwell to work as a traveling messuse for her associate, 14 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,679 Speaker 2: American financer Jeffrey Epstein, over the promise of a two. 15 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 1: Hundred dollars rate permissage. 16 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 2: Virginia eagerly accepts per massage. 17 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 1: My rear end. This was just a little girl, like 18 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,880 Speaker 1: so many of the other little girls that were lured 19 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: in by Epstein, whom many insists did not commit suicide 20 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:39,560 Speaker 1: behind bars. Lured in by Epstein and his hitch person 21 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 1: bills above from Hell Jelaine Maxwell. Now she at this 22 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 1: moment is trying to seek a presidential pardon. She was 23 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: convicted for her role in this. Wow, do you think 24 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: Virginia's testimony could have thrown a wrench in that presidential pardon? 25 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 1: Think about it? Joining me an all star panel. But 26 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 1: first to Crime Stories investigative reporter Dave Mac. Dave Mac, 27 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 1: are you telling me with a straight face? And I'm 28 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: not a conspiracy theorist at all, because I don't think 29 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 1: people can keep their pieholds shut long enough for a 30 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:22,119 Speaker 1: conspiracy to actually work. But you're telling me, Dave Mac, 31 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 1: that Virginia Jeffrey dies of suicide. What's the cause of death, 32 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 1: How did she die? Who was with her? Where was she? 33 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: Wasn't she just released from the hospital. You're telling me 34 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: that she was released while suicidal? And where did this 35 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: happen exactly? Wasn't it near Gabby? Near Gabby, Australia, population 36 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 1: two hundred and sixty eight on the last instance, one 37 00:02:50,480 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 1: hundred and fifty six males, one hundred and twelve females, 38 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 1: median age forty one. Dave Mac, you're telling me that 39 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:03,639 Speaker 1: in near Gabby Australia. They had a top notch forensics 40 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 1: team that knows beyond a shadow of a doubt that 41 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:11,480 Speaker 1: she committed suicide with a backdrop of three other witnesses, 42 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: potential witnesses, and a federal sex ring case. They all 43 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 1: die of suicide, you know, Dave Mack and Russia, they 44 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 1: push you out of a window. So Dave Matt tell 45 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,920 Speaker 1: me about Virginia's suicide. 46 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 3: Well, what we know about Virginia's suicide Nancy actually comes 47 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 3: from her family because there has been no official cause 48 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,000 Speaker 3: of death that has been placed in the public for 49 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 3: any of us to see. It's being used as clickbait 50 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 3: all over. But we don't actually have a real cause 51 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 3: of death yet. What we have is the family saying 52 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,119 Speaker 3: she took her own life. We don't know anything more 53 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 3: than that except for this Nancy. She was actually staying 54 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 3: at her face. She was separated from her husband and 55 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 3: staying at their farmhouse, a one point three million dollar 56 00:03:56,200 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 3: farmhouse in area as you mentioned, that is very lightly populated. 57 00:04:01,720 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 3: Her brothers were staying with her in this farmhouse. She's 58 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,440 Speaker 3: four weeks removed from leaving the hospital, as you mentioned, 59 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 3: and she is there apparently, if we are to believe 60 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:18,919 Speaker 3: what we're being told that she committed suicide in the 61 00:04:18,960 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 3: middle of a million dollar plus farm mansion, and she 62 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 3: is Okay, just. 63 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,400 Speaker 1: A moment, Dave Mac, I don't recall asking you to 64 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:33,560 Speaker 1: put the farm mansion up on real estate site. Okay, 65 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:35,760 Speaker 1: we'll get back to the as you say, million dollar 66 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: mansion in just a moment, asking you about the cod Now, 67 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:41,720 Speaker 1: we don't have a cause of death that has not 68 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: been released. We don't know if there's been an autopsy 69 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: here in the US. Of course, there would be an 70 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: autopsy immediately. Whenever there's a question, was there an autopsy, 71 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:56,440 Speaker 1: was there a tox ecology screening? You just stated, Dave Mac, 72 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: that her family said it's a suicide. Well, let me 73 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: differ with you, because her father, her own father, is 74 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: calling for an investigation, as is her sister in law 75 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 1: and others. They say that she specifically stated, if I die, 76 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: believe me, I did not commit suicide. 77 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 3: Listen to this family of Virginia Jeffrey, led by her 78 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,919 Speaker 3: father Sky Roberts, are asking her death be investigated. Roberts 79 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 3: tells TMZ Virginia said if she ever died by suicide, 80 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 3: not to believe it. Virginia herself shares comments about suicide 81 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 3: in response to something said on social media, writing, I'm 82 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 3: making it publicly known that in no way, shape or 83 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 3: form in my suicidal if something happens to me in 84 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 3: the sake of my family, do not let this go 85 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 3: away and help me to protect them. Too many evil 86 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:47,799 Speaker 3: people want to see me quieted. 87 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: So Dave mag I'm not quite sure where you're getting 88 00:05:50,560 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 1: your information, but you just heard the father and a 89 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: sister in law who is speaking on behalf of the 90 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: brother demanding an investigation joining me. Doctor Kendall Crown's renowned 91 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:09,159 Speaker 1: chief medical examiner out of Tarre County. That's fort Worth, 92 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 1: never a lack of business. He has performed literally thousands 93 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 1: of autopsies. He is the esteemed lecturer at the Burnett 94 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,040 Speaker 1: School of Medicine at TCU. A star of a hit 95 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: series podcast, Mayhem in the Morgue, set to hit the airwaves, 96 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,240 Speaker 1: Doctor Crowns, thank you for being with us. Doctor Kendall Crowns, 97 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: win at least in the US is an autopsy SOP 98 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: standard operating procedure. 99 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:41,039 Speaker 4: Anytime there's something that's concerning, you always have an autopsy. 100 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 4: So if there's a concern for a suicide, an accident, 101 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 4: or a homicide, that individual will be autopsy by a 102 00:06:47,760 --> 00:06:51,479 Speaker 4: medical examiner or a forensic pathologist. In cases of natural 103 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 4: deaths where it's unwitnessed or unsuperfied so they don't have 104 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 4: a medical history, died outside of a hospital, or died 105 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 4: within twenty four hours of reaching the hospital, those will 106 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,840 Speaker 4: also be autopsis. And then of course any child under 107 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 4: the age of six gets autopsy automatically. 108 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: So in this case, doctor Kendall Crowns, at least in 109 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: the US, wouldn't there have been no question and autosy. 110 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 4: Correct, There's no question there'd be an autopsy on this. 111 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 4: With the history of what the history of with Epstein, 112 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 4: with the recent history of a possible car accident, and 113 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 4: then the history of domestic violence, there's all kinds of 114 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:33,239 Speaker 4: factors in play here that could be something that's going 115 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 4: on that makes it not a suicide and could be 116 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 4: a homicide. 117 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: We are talking about the suicide of Virginia Giffrey, and 118 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: this is one of my many many questions. Where's the 119 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: death certificate? What is a ceod? Has there been a funeral? 120 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,400 Speaker 1: Where is her body? Don't tell me she's already been 121 00:07:55,400 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: cremated for Pete's sat destroying any forensic evidence. Who investigated this, 122 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:06,239 Speaker 1: the crack detectives in near Gabby, Australia where there are 123 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:14,080 Speaker 1: two hundred and sixty eight people population licenses. Who found her? 124 00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 1: How did they find her? Did she hang herself? Did 125 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 1: she take pills? What pills? We're photos taken, we're measurements taken. 126 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: And again, what are the odds? What's the likelihood? And 127 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: of course that can never be argued to a jury statistics, 128 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: But what you roll the dice? What are the statistics 129 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:42,959 Speaker 1: that four witnesses connected to a sex ring, a proven 130 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: sex ring of the very rich and powerful? Just as 131 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:52,400 Speaker 1: the FEDS claim they're going to release all the documents, 132 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:58,720 Speaker 1: including a list of massage therapists Epstein paid for her 133 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 1: or virginia'supray to have massage lessons? Is she on the list? 134 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: Was she about to be called as a witness? How 135 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:16,559 Speaker 1: did she get tangled up with a perv? A billionaire, 136 00:09:16,760 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: but a perv nonetheless like Epstein? 137 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:23,160 Speaker 5: This is how Sometimes he would just jerk off in 138 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 5: front of them and rub his nipples. 139 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: Sometimes he would have intercourse with them. 140 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 5: Sometimes he'd make them, you know, give him blowjobs. It 141 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 5: kind of worked like a pyramid scheme. Gailan brought me in, 142 00:09:33,920 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 5: I brought other girls in. Those girls brought other girls in. 143 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 5: Gilan tells me that. 144 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 6: I have to do. 145 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 5: For Andrew what I do for Jeffrey, and that made 146 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 5: me sick. I just didn't expect it from Royalty. 147 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: That is Virginia's Gifrey speaking about how she was lured 148 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 1: by Jeline Maxwell as a little girl, told she could 149 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 1: two hundred dollars an hour if she learned to be 150 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: a messus a massage therapist. Well, what that actually entailed 151 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: was something very, very different and illegal. You know, when 152 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 1: children are molested, they are never the same. They may 153 00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: look the same to me and you, but on the 154 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: inside they never recover. They may learn to go about 155 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 1: their business, hold down a job, try to have a 156 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: marriage or a family. They're never the same. Now, what 157 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 1: you were hearing is from our friends at the Miami 158 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 1: Herald and BBC Panorama. That's a Virginia Jeffrey who vowed 159 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:42,959 Speaker 1: to never give up the fight, but she committed suicide 160 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:47,679 Speaker 1: just on the eve of the federal release of those documents. 161 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: I want to go to a very special guest. You 162 00:10:52,920 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: may not know her name now, but you will. She, 163 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: like Virginia, was lured in by Epstein. She actually went 164 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: to Epstein Island. You know what, I will let her 165 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: tell her story. Lisa Phillips is joining me now. She 166 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:16,880 Speaker 1: is the star and the host of a podcast from 167 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:22,200 Speaker 1: now on, and it's a real honor to speak with you, 168 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: miss Phillips. How did you meet if that's the right word, 169 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. 170 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 7: So, I was on a photo shoot in early two 171 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 7: thousand at the island of Tortola in the British West Indies, 172 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 7: very close to his island, and we had a free day, 173 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 7: and another young blonde Polish model who looks like Virginia said, 174 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 7: you know, I have a friend who owns island. He's 175 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 7: been so wonderful to me. He got me my visa 176 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 7: to live in the United States, and so she was 177 00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 7: just said, you know, let's go for the day, and 178 00:11:59,280 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 7: so I just said, okay, sure, I'll go with you. 179 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 7: And so I went over to the island and I 180 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 7: saw two young blonde girls swimming in the pool with 181 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 7: the older gentleman, dark haired gentleman, and then later on 182 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 7: we all had dinner together, hung out for the day, 183 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 7: and later on that evening, a young blonde girl knocked 184 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 7: on my door and told myself and the other blonde 185 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 7: girl that Jeffrey needed a massage or Jeffrey actually she 186 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 7: said Jeffrey's ready for his massage, and so I just 187 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 7: was like, what are you talking about? 188 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: What massage? 189 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 7: And so the other girl said, oh, well, Jeffrey likes 190 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,559 Speaker 7: you know, massages. You just you have to do it. So, 191 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 7: you know, I was trapped on the island. I didn't 192 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,280 Speaker 7: know where to go. I just you know, followed the 193 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,000 Speaker 7: girl into his room to do the massage with this 194 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 7: other young girl, and I ended up being abused on 195 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 7: that island. 196 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: Lisa, When you say you were abused, what. 197 00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 7: Happened, Well, like Virginia was planning the massages, so the 198 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 7: massages turned into you know, touching and into assault. 199 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: Were you sex molested Lisa by Jeffrey Epstein? Yes, I was. 200 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:20,320 Speaker 1: You know Lynn Shaw joining me? Does it ever end? Lynn? 201 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:25,960 Speaker 1: Does it ever end? Lynn is the founder director Lynn's Warriors, 202 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: committed to ending human trafficking and exploitation of girls, host 203 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 1: of Lynn's Warriors on YouTube. Does it ever end? When 204 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 1: I hear Lisa and I look at her, she's so beautiful, 205 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: so articulate, so poised. I mean, Lisa, has your life 206 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: ever been the same? I mean mine hasn't been the 207 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,600 Speaker 1: same since I was a victim of violent crime. It's 208 00:13:54,640 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: never been the same. What did that do to you? 209 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 7: You can see I still get emotional, but I kept 210 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 7: it silent for fifteen years. It wasn't until Jeffrey died 211 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:08,240 Speaker 7: in twenty nineteen and I saw Virginia speak out. I thought, Wow, 212 00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 7: this is a courageous woman. Wow, she has like this 213 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 7: bravery to speak out about, you know what happened to 214 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,400 Speaker 7: her with Jeffrey. But it was her story about Prince 215 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 7: Andrew was the reason why I spoke out. Because I 216 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 7: had a young friend, also a blonde similar to Virginia's look, 217 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 7: who was told by Jeffrey to go into a room 218 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 7: to have sex with the Prince, and that memory I 219 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 7: always remembered because when I met Jeffrey for the very 220 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,440 Speaker 7: first time on the island, I remembered seeing that man there. 221 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 7: So my story connected me that way Andrew. Yes, yes, 222 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 7: Jeffrey introduced me to Prince Andrew. 223 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:55,560 Speaker 1: Disgusting and he's like a tick, sucking the public's money, 224 00:14:55,640 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: living in a mansion and I'm ting you this girls 225 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: battle now. Woman Virginia Geffray's battle with Epstein and Prince Andrew. 226 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: She vowed not to give up ever, and I'm supposed 227 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: to believe that. She said, Oh yet, you know what, 228 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: I won the battle against Andrew Epstein's dad, So now 229 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: I'll kill myself. I find that really hard to believe, Lynshaw, 230 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: Will it ever end? When I see Andrew trotting around 231 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:34,480 Speaker 1: bal Morale or Windsor Castle on eighty thousand dollars horse, 232 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: my stomach clinches. He should be in jail. Did you 233 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: hear what Lisa just said? Same thing that Virginia said. 234 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,239 Speaker 8: Listen, we at the Warriors have spoken with have interviewed 235 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,080 Speaker 8: many victims of Jeffrey Epstein. I want us all to 236 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 8: first applaud Lisa for appearing and bravely speaking out. This 237 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 8: takes a lot of strength to keep talking about what happens. 238 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 8: All commend her. Second of all, Virginia Giuffrey, I will 239 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 8: never believe killed herself. She bravely came out as a warrior. 240 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 8: And when she did that several years ago, all of 241 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,280 Speaker 8: the other victims came forward and said, finally, finally we 242 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 8: have some support resolution me attention. We're going to get 243 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 8: somewhere three facts right away. Law enforcement said, no foul play, 244 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:27,200 Speaker 8: nothing to see here. That was number one. Number two, 245 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 8: Virginia was in the process of renovating her house. Number three, 246 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,680 Speaker 8: she was standing for all the other victims. She would 247 00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 8: not do anything to harm herself. She wanted to be 248 00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 8: that warrior for them. And I have to add a 249 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 8: fourth point. I don't believe she would leave her children. 250 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 8: Something happened here. We're not getting the facts. And will 251 00:16:45,760 --> 00:16:47,960 Speaker 8: it ever end, Nancy, I'm afraid to say, and I 252 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 8: don't like saying this. No, this Epstein's story is never 253 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 8: going to end. We're never going to hear the truth 254 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 8: and the facts about all of this. Too many complicit, 255 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 8: powerful people involved. 256 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: And another thing you heard Shaw say she was in 257 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: the middle of her renovation. She was fighting to see 258 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: her children. She would never leave them. But what about 259 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:13,199 Speaker 1: this note what she said she was getting ready to 260 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: do battle. Listen Virginia. 261 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 9: Jeffrey's sister in law, Amanda Roberts, wants to release a 262 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,359 Speaker 9: quote written by Virginia found in a journal at her 263 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 9: Australian farmhouse. In her own hand, Virginia wrote, mothers, fathers, 264 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 9: sisters and brothers need to show the battle lines are 265 00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 9: drawn and we stand together to fight for the future 266 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 9: of victims. Is protesting the answer? I don't know, but 267 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,159 Speaker 9: we've got to start somewhere. Jeffrey's brother, Sky Roberts, believes 268 00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:42,200 Speaker 9: the note was intended for organizers of the Washington DC 269 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 9: rally of Sexual assault Survivors. In a section of the note, 270 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:48,399 Speaker 9: she writes, we are not going to go away. 271 00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 2: Sixteen year old Virginia Jeffrey has started working as a 272 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 2: traveling massuse for financier Jeffrey Epstein. 273 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 3: But not all is as it seems. Virginia, just a. 274 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 2: Teen, is being asked to complete tak that are far 275 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,400 Speaker 2: outside of her responsibilities, and soon the tasks turn into 276 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:07,639 Speaker 2: sexual abuse tasks. 277 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 1: It makes it sound like Epstein's asking her to file documents. 278 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:18,360 Speaker 1: He's asking this teen girl to perform sex acts, oral sex, 279 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: raping her, massaging him. It goes on and on, and 280 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:27,719 Speaker 1: she is not the only girl involved. According to a 281 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: wide ranging investigation by the federal government, Epstein and his 282 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:38,880 Speaker 1: hinch person basically his pimp, Jelanne Maxwell, another millionaire, had 283 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 1: created somewhat of a Ponzi scheme, a type of structure 284 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: where these girls, these young girls would go out and 285 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:57,719 Speaker 1: recruit other young girls to take part in sex acts 286 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:03,399 Speaker 1: with older, wealthy and prestigious let me say clients. I 287 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 1: would call them child rapists. But that's just me. And 288 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: now we are expected to believe that Virginia Giffrey, just 289 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 1: after all of the battle against Epstein, all of the 290 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: battle against Prince Andrew bringing him down on the cusp 291 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: of the FEDS releasing more names, she says, Yeah, you 292 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:29,200 Speaker 1: know what, I give up. I'm committing suicide. No cod 293 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:34,200 Speaker 1: no autopsy report, no toxicology report, nothing. I went to 294 00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: a high school soccer game last night and the other 295 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,920 Speaker 1: moms were saying, Virginia Giffrey is probably in the witness 296 00:19:40,960 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: protection program. Yes, that's where it's going. The rumor meal 297 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:52,920 Speaker 1: in high gear and why not without any transparency or clarity. 298 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,720 Speaker 1: She is not the first person connected to this investigation 299 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:01,480 Speaker 1: to die of suicide. What about Carolyn Andreano? 300 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,400 Speaker 3: When she was just fourteen, Jeffrey Epstein began sexually abusing 301 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 3: Carol and Andreano and continued to abuse her for the 302 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 3: next four years. Testifying against Gilaine Maxwell in her trial 303 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 3: for sex trafficking miners, Carol and Andreano found dead in 304 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 3: a West Palm Beach, Florida hotel room at the age 305 00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 3: of thirty six, leaving behind a husband of five children. 306 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 3: West Palm Beach police say she died from an accidental overdose. 307 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 3: Carol and Andreano is the second Epstein survivor to have 308 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 3: died of a fatal drug overdose in Palm Beach County, Florida. 309 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 3: The first Epstein survivor to die of an overdose, Lee 310 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,280 Speaker 3: sky Patrick, was found dead in a West Palm Beach 311 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 3: hotel from an accidental drug overdose. Patrick's twin sister, Selby Patrick, 312 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,920 Speaker 3: says Lee skuy suffered tremendously and it all started with Epstein. 313 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: It all started with Epstein. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 314 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: Now we've heard about Carolin Andreano committing suicide by drug overdose. 315 00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: We've heard about Lee sky Patrick committing suicide by overdose. 316 00:21:18,280 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: Now we hear about Virginia as You Fray committing suicide 317 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 1: by overdose. Well, what about the most high profile suicide 318 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 1: Epstein himself. 319 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 10: August tenth, twenty nineteen, Jeffrey Epstein's found dead in his cell. 320 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,600 Speaker 10: Authority say Epstein tied his bed sheet to his bed frame. 321 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 10: Lean forward, essentially hanging himself. Several bones in Epstein's neck 322 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,439 Speaker 10: were fractured. The Inspector General's investigation concluded that prison guards 323 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 10: were negligent fudging the records of their half hourly rounds 324 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 10: while sleeping on duty. Epstein's cellmate was also inexplicably removed, 325 00:21:55,320 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 10: despite Epstein's lawyer's requests he not be left alone. Cameras 326 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 10: that should have monitored Epstein's every move were also not 327 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 10: recording during the incident. 328 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: What happened to Jeffrey Epstein? He had told multiple people 329 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: that he feared he would be killed behind bars. Specifically, 330 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,800 Speaker 1: I want to look at the wounds on Epstein's neck, 331 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:23,240 Speaker 1: Doctor Kendall Crown's joining me, Chief medical Examiner Terren County, 332 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: look behind his neck, look at that when someone dies 333 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 1: in the way it's purported, Epstein died much like Robin 334 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,200 Speaker 1: Williams died by tying something around the neck and then 335 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: attaching it to in this case a bunk bed, and 336 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:50,480 Speaker 1: then leaning forward. Why would you have those marks on 337 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: the back of your neck. And also, doctor Kendall Crowns, 338 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,200 Speaker 1: let me direct your attention to the photo on the left, 339 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:04,359 Speaker 1: the horizontal photo in a typical suicide by hanging, you 340 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 1: see more of a U shaped indentation and mark. This 341 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: looks more like a ligature from behind by an assailant mark. 342 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:18,040 Speaker 1: And it's not just me saying this, there are renowned 343 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: medical examiners who agree. 344 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 4: Usually, when you have someone who commits suicide by hanging 345 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 4: and use of the ligature will attach it to something, 346 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,880 Speaker 4: and then when they hang themselves, the ligature furrow will 347 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 4: pull upwards and you get an inverted V on the neck. 348 00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,760 Speaker 4: I mean it's usually all the way around the neck. 349 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:39,760 Speaker 4: You'll see this's inverted B. In a non suicide. 350 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 1: Right, inverted the you mean like a smile. 351 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 4: An upside down smile, Yeah, would be another way to 352 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,400 Speaker 4: describe it is another way. Yes, I would agree with that. 353 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,800 Speaker 4: So when you have someone that's strangled with the ligature, 354 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 4: you don't get that inverted B or upside down smile 355 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 4: because they're standing behind you and pulling that ligature tight 356 00:23:57,720 --> 00:23:59,880 Speaker 4: around your neck, and that creates those kind of more 357 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:04,440 Speaker 4: horizontal lines. The problem with Epstein is every description I've 358 00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 4: heard of the wound and the pictures I've seen is 359 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 4: it doesn't look like it's going upwards. So it's very unusual. 360 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 4: He could could he have hanged himself by putting his 361 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 4: neck into the ligature that's just the U and then 362 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:22,119 Speaker 4: leaning forward. It would cause that without seeing it on 363 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 4: the back of the neck, but you would still get 364 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 4: kind of an upward tilt to it. And then that's 365 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,320 Speaker 4: also a soft ligature. You're not going to get all 366 00:24:29,359 --> 00:24:33,080 Speaker 4: the fracturing that you're seeing with Epstein as well of 367 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 4: the highway bone, which is hold on right. 368 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: Hold on right there, you got to drink from the 369 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:44,800 Speaker 1: fire hydrant. Epstein's death, according to some the medical examiner, 370 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 1: who was working for the state says there were three 371 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:52,320 Speaker 1: fractures of the hyoid bone and the thyroid cartilage. Now, 372 00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: according to renowned medical examiner Michael Bowden, he says the 373 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: injuries indicate homicide strangulation, not suicide. Now Boden was the 374 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 1: chief medical examiner in New York City and is now 375 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: considered as a celebrity forensic witness. Do you agree or 376 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: disagree with Michael Boden, Doctor Crowns. 377 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,919 Speaker 4: The problem I have is with the age of Epstein, 378 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 4: those bones become more bony and they become more brittle, 379 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 4: so they're more readily fractured. But you don't usually see 380 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,199 Speaker 4: a lot of the fractures, and I'd have to do 381 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,520 Speaker 4: a lot more looking at the case, looking at those 382 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 4: pictures to really give you a true opinion on that. 383 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 4: But it is very unusual what we're seeing in Epstein's 384 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 4: case for it to be a suicidal hangar. 385 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 3: Virginia Jeffrey and Prince Andrew are forever linked by Jeffrey's 386 00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 3: allegations of sex abuse. Jeffers claims gil Maxwell set her 387 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 3: up for sex with the Prince on three occasions starting 388 00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 3: at age seventeen, resulting in a lawsuit which the Prince settled, 389 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,080 Speaker 3: all the while denying he had sex with the teen. 390 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:02,479 Speaker 3: Likely the most damaging consequence for Prince Andrew is being 391 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 3: stripped of his royal and military titles. Jeffrey's death creates 392 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,280 Speaker 3: more negativity as the allegations jump back into the headlines. 393 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:13,440 Speaker 3: According to one royal watcher, Jeffrey's death does not exonerate him, 394 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,200 Speaker 3: but merely closes the matter. 395 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,960 Speaker 1: In the midst of Andrew's alleged battle to hold on 396 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,400 Speaker 1: to the mansion he's been living in rent free, suddenly 397 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,360 Speaker 1: Virginia Geffrey commits suicide. After all she has survived in 398 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:33,399 Speaker 1: the midst of another battle, seeking support for sex attack 399 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:40,400 Speaker 1: victims across the world, she suddenly commits suicide. Listen to Virginia. 400 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,320 Speaker 11: I was recruited at a very young age from our 401 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 11: alago and entrapped in a world that I didn't understand. 402 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 11: And I've been fighting that very world to this day 403 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 11: and I won't stop fighting. I will never be silenced 404 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,119 Speaker 11: until these people are brought to justice. 405 00:26:55,160 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: From our friends at Fox News, I won't stop fighting. 406 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 1: I will continue to fight until all of these people 407 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: are brought to justice. I will never be silenced. Yet, 408 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: somewhere in near Gabby, population about two hundred people, she 409 00:27:09,320 --> 00:27:14,159 Speaker 1: commits suicide. According to some listen to more, I know 410 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: this guy. There's an opportunity. 411 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:18,920 Speaker 5: Actually, if you want to become a real massage therapist, 412 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 5: we can get you trained. You can come for the 413 00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 5: interview tonight and if he likes you, then you'll be 414 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:26,520 Speaker 5: a real. 415 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: Messuse you said, take off your clothes. 416 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 5: I had these little girl undies on, like little hearts 417 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:34,879 Speaker 5: on them, I remember, and they were laughing at that 418 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,880 Speaker 5: because they like that the younger you look, the better 419 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 5: it is. It it turns very sexual and it was 420 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 5: abuse straight away from both of them. 421 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: That's Virginia speaking to our friends at Lifetime joining me 422 00:27:48,880 --> 00:27:53,200 Speaker 1: Renow psychoanalysts out of La, author of deal Breakers at 423 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:57,120 Speaker 1: Dodtor Bethanymarshall dot com. You can see her now on 424 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: Peacock Doctor, Bethany. Did you hear what Virginia just said? 425 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: She was a little girl and on her girls undies 426 00:28:06,359 --> 00:28:09,640 Speaker 1: there were hearts and all of the adults started laughing 427 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 1: at that because she was such a quote little girl. 428 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:15,120 Speaker 1: It's disgusting. 429 00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 12: It is disgusting, and they abused her in so many ways. 430 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 12: Not only did they predate upon her when she was 431 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 12: just working at mar A Lago, and one of the 432 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,679 Speaker 12: reports says she was actually in foster care before that, 433 00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:31,879 Speaker 12: so she was as typical with their victims, in a 434 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,920 Speaker 12: very vulnerable, precarious place in their life, longing for parental 435 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:39,840 Speaker 12: love or love from adults. But then they laugh at 436 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 12: her underwear and it doesn't stop there, Nancy. A lot 437 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 12: of the victims have reported that once they tried to 438 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 12: get away from Epstein and Gilan Maxwell that Gillan and 439 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,960 Speaker 12: Epstein came after them. So it's a lot like the 440 00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:59,719 Speaker 12: Catholic priests who predated on young kids. You know when 441 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,160 Speaker 12: they has tried to break away, the priests would keep 442 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:07,440 Speaker 12: stalking them. So this is sort of a life time 443 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 12: of abuse that Jeffreys has been exposed to. 444 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:12,040 Speaker 1: Nancy. 445 00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 12: When I first heard of this death, I thought, she 446 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 12: is such a resilient woman. How cand a woman who's 447 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 12: so resilient take her own life. She also has three children. 448 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 12: She was talking about restoring her farmhouse. Shows she was 449 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 12: thinking about having a bright and optimistic future, which is 450 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,360 Speaker 12: not what you see with people who are suicidal. Often 451 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 12: they feel very hopeless. They feel they actually make no 452 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 12: references to the future if they're planning on kill them 453 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,560 Speaker 12: killing themselves. So this whole story just doesn't make sense. 454 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace mag to your special guest, 455 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,720 Speaker 1: Lisa Phillips A joining us Epstein's Survivor and you can 456 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: say her. She is the founder and the star of 457 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: a podcast from now on, and her story is amazing. 458 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:14,479 Speaker 1: I have seen sex assault victims who can't even raise 459 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 1: their head and look up and meet your gaze. She 460 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: has continued to battle on and she was inspired when 461 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:30,719 Speaker 1: Virginia spoke out. Lisa, I don't understand how Epstein's web 462 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: of sex trafficking with very rich very powerful clients. How 463 00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: it has stayed silent for so long, and even now 464 00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: DC is kicking rocks. They're not releasing the documents they 465 00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 1: promised they would release. Why doesn't that bother you? 466 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,880 Speaker 7: Well, I think victims don't understand what's going on in 467 00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 7: the moment. For many years, I didn't understand it until 468 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,160 Speaker 7: I started talking to other survivors of Jeffrey Epstein and 469 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 7: realizing that our stories were exactly the same. So meeting 470 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 7: Virginia and talking to her in those years, I realized 471 00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,080 Speaker 7: that she was a young girl that I met on 472 00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:12,640 Speaker 7: the island. That day, I realized I saw her frolicking 473 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 7: in the pool with prince with the prince, and later 474 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,160 Speaker 7: on I met the prince that evening, And then a 475 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 7: couple of years later, I had a young friend that 476 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 7: was also abused by the prince, was told by Jeffrey 477 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,920 Speaker 7: to go into a room to have sex with this prince. 478 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 7: And that was the reason I started speaking out. And 479 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 7: then when I started talking to all these I being 480 00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 7: a lot of girls, there was thirty forty fifty of 481 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 7: them that I was speaking to, and we were all 482 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 7: in this group and understanding that the same men that 483 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 7: we were being introduced to we were actually being trafficked to, 484 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:50,960 Speaker 7: because oftentimes it ended in abuse or an attempted assault. 485 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 7: So we started putting it all together that this was 486 00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 7: a sex trafficking ring, and I started getting angrier and 487 00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 7: angrier about this, and that's why we started discussingly we 488 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 7: need to have a podcast about these serial predators. And 489 00:32:04,360 --> 00:32:09,719 Speaker 7: I focused obviously on Jeffrey Epstein and just knowing the 490 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 7: abuse that I for myself, and I also witnessed many 491 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 7: many girls that were eighteen to twenty four in New York. 492 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 13: In Florida. 493 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 7: You know, with Blaine, they were underage, but in New York, 494 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 7: most of the women were between eighteen and twenty four. 495 00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 7: Hundreds that have come forward. 496 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: Speaking of Palm Beach joining me now is a veteran 497 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: trial lawyer. Andrea Lewis, partner at Circe Law Firm in 498 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:43,560 Speaker 1: Palm Beach, Florida, President of Palm Beach County Bar Association 499 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: at circelaw dot com. She was there in that jurisdiction 500 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: when Epstein was prosecuted and given a slap on the 501 00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:58,760 Speaker 1: risk trust me Andrew had nothing to do with that 502 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: cover up, which it was and that ended up costing 503 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: Acosta his job way up in the federal government because 504 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: he went along with that deal where Epstein had been 505 00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: molesting child after child, after girl after girl, and he 506 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: basically got a form of house arrest. He would have 507 00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:23,719 Speaker 1: to report to the jail, but then once he reported, 508 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: he could have his private limo driver pick him up 509 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 1: at the jail. He'd be gone all day and come 510 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:35,959 Speaker 1: back to sleep there nothing. He got nothing. And so 511 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,400 Speaker 1: when you hear that one out of four people connected 512 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 1: to this sex ring now having committed suicide, I mean, Asia, 513 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 1: that doesn't raise a bell of alarm to you. 514 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 13: Well, Nancy, your one hundred percent right. I mean, the 515 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 13: facts here are really shocking. 516 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 6: I mean, it is so unusual to have this many suicides, 517 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 6: this many tragedies all day are circling this one very 518 00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 6: powerful man. And of course, as you noted time and 519 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,960 Speaker 6: time again, the other very unusual thing about this story 520 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:16,720 Speaker 6: is the other powerful, wealthy people that continue to roam free, 521 00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,360 Speaker 6: who were of course involved in some way or another 522 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:27,720 Speaker 6: in this horrific, longstanding acts. On these horrific long standing 523 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 6: acts of child abuse and human trafficking. 524 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 1: Virginia Giffray had just begun to fight, But now we 525 00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:39,520 Speaker 1: hear she, like three other people connected to this very 526 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: powerful sex ring, have just committed suicide. Not according to 527 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:47,839 Speaker 1: her lawyer. 528 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:48,839 Speaker 14: This case is not going away. 529 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 10: For Junior Geffrey is not going to go away, and 530 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:55,480 Speaker 10: I'm not going to go away. 531 00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: Were now lawyer David Boys insisting Virginia's that fight is 532 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,840 Speaker 1: not going to go away. As a matter of fact, 533 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:08,919 Speaker 1: she was supporting Denim Day, a march a protest in 534 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,799 Speaker 1: Washington across from the Capitol to support rape at Sex 535 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 1: Assault Victims' Rights IRV. Branton joining me now. Former Senior 536 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: Inspector US Marshall has literally gone around the world hunting 537 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 1: down bad guys. Author of an entire series on Amazon 538 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 1: about Jack solo latest solo shot, Curse of the Blue 539 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:36,719 Speaker 1: Stone RV Prince Andrew, Listen, that's me. 540 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,720 Speaker 15: But whether that's my hand or whether that's the position, 541 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 15: but I don't. I have simply no recollection of a 542 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 15: photograph ever being taken. 543 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,160 Speaker 1: That was the train Wreck interview Andrew gave. That was 544 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: from of our friends at BBC, and this is the 545 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 1: photo he's talking about. First, she said that couldn't be 546 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 1: him because he had never been to Julane Maxwell's second 547 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,640 Speaker 1: story of her. Oh, there she is, second story of 548 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 1: her condo, I believe in Mayfair, a tony part of London, 549 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,240 Speaker 1: and there he is with Virginia Jeffrey. Then he says 550 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:17,320 Speaker 1: it couldn't be him because these are not the clothes 551 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,200 Speaker 1: he would have worn in London, because these are his quote, 552 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:25,480 Speaker 1: traveling clothes. What is he talking about, er Brandt his 553 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: traveling clothes? Really? Then he tried to claim that that's 554 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,000 Speaker 1: not his left hand because it's too red. Wow, it 555 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: matches his right hand. I mean. Then he said he 556 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,080 Speaker 1: couldn't possibly have met her at disco because she said 557 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:43,840 Speaker 1: he was sweating and he doesn't sweat because of a 558 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,280 Speaker 1: war wound. It just gets the worse. Train wreck, perfect 559 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,080 Speaker 1: way to describe it. What do the laws work differently 560 00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: in Great Britain than they do in the US because 561 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: he should be in jail. 562 00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 14: Men say it's the whole thing's disturbing. And when you 563 00:36:57,560 --> 00:37:00,200 Speaker 14: said train wreck, I would say that's the best way 564 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 14: to describe it. The stories don't make sense, The answers 565 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:12,040 Speaker 14: to the questions don't make sense. For an investigator conducting 566 00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,959 Speaker 14: in an interview, I just couldn't imagine. I would throw 567 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:20,279 Speaker 14: my hands up in the air, you know, and look 568 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 14: and look at the person that I'm interviewing and ask them, 569 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 14: what are you trying to say? I can't make any 570 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 14: sense of it. And just listening to you describe it, 571 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:32,200 Speaker 14: I can't make any sense of it. 572 00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:36,440 Speaker 1: And even after that sweetheart deal, and yes, Andrew Lewis, 573 00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: I know you had nothing at all to do with it. 574 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 1: In fact, you opposed it in Palm Beach, Andrew was 575 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:47,880 Speaker 1: still snugged up with Epstein in his Manhattan mansion and 576 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,839 Speaker 1: they have been spotted on camera walking through Central Park. 577 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: I mean, Andrew lewis Is certainly is not probative. But 578 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,840 Speaker 1: have you did your grandma say to you, birds of 579 00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,959 Speaker 1: a feather flocked together, lay down with the dog. You'll 580 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,120 Speaker 1: wake up with the flea. What was Andrew doing with 581 00:38:05,239 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 1: Epstein except something the farious? And why isn't he in jail? 582 00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:10,759 Speaker 13: Well, Nan, see, that's a great question, and it's a 583 00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:15,160 Speaker 13: question that's on everybody's mind because certainly you have somebody 584 00:38:15,320 --> 00:38:18,919 Speaker 13: who is rich and powerful, who is a known associate 585 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 13: to somebody who is clearly involved in the abuse of children, 586 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 13: widespread abusive children over many years, and it really leaves 587 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:35,480 Speaker 13: you questioning how wouldn't he have known about this? Everybody 588 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:37,319 Speaker 13: else seems to have known about this. 589 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: And you know, did you just hear Lisa Phillips, Lisa Phillips, 590 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:45,600 Speaker 1: Let me see, Lisa, you're sure that was Andrew, Prince Andrew. 591 00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: I guess his last name is York or Wales or whatever. 592 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:52,320 Speaker 1: That was him paddling around in the pool what in 593 00:38:52,400 --> 00:38:54,879 Speaker 1: a thong with those teen girls? Mm hmm. 594 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,440 Speaker 7: It was definitely him, because Jeffrey introduced me to the 595 00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:59,600 Speaker 7: prince after I told him how I grew up in Oxford. 596 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 1: And yet I just saw a shot of him galloping 597 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:09,359 Speaker 1: around Windsor Castle on the grounds on like an eighty 598 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,320 Speaker 1: thousand dollars horse. Why is he not in jail? Well, 599 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:18,360 Speaker 1: recall that he agreed to a settlement of millions and 600 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: millions of dollars with Virginia's Giffrey. Now she won that battle, 601 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: she's continuing to fight. You want to tell me that 602 00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:30,480 Speaker 1: when those dogs are finally released by the fans, that's 603 00:39:30,520 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 1: not going to open up a big can of worms, 604 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,439 Speaker 1: and her voice will be needed. And as a matter 605 00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:40,920 Speaker 1: of fact, think about what she's already overcome. Listen to 606 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:43,640 Speaker 1: Virginia's Gefrey speaking to our friends at Lifetime. 607 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:46,120 Speaker 5: I remember sitting at the bottom of my shower and 608 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:50,160 Speaker 5: crying my eyes out. I'd been on the streets and 609 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 5: I thought, you know, well, maybe this is the lesser 610 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:54,360 Speaker 5: of two evils. 611 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,280 Speaker 1: I had the promise of an education and. 612 00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 5: Maybe this is just how the world works. 613 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:03,080 Speaker 1: From our f friends at Lifetime. And after she survived 614 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: all of that, now with a multimillion dollar settlement, she 615 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:19,800 Speaker 1: decides to quit. Did Epstein survivor Virginia Geffray's commit suicide? 616 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:25,440 Speaker 1: It would make her one of four people witnesses in 617 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: the Epstein case, one at a four that committed suicide. 618 00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:35,840 Speaker 1: What are the odds of that? To special guests Lisa Phillips, 619 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 1: Epstein survivor, star of podcast From Now On, Lisa, how 620 00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:48,719 Speaker 1: did it impact you when you learned Virginia is dead? Oh? 621 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 7: That was a hard, hard day for me and it 622 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:56,240 Speaker 7: has been since. I just had so many emotions and. 623 00:40:56,360 --> 00:41:00,000 Speaker 13: I just feel so bad for the life that she lived. 624 00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:02,760 Speaker 7: You know, the cycle of abuse is what we focus 625 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,360 Speaker 7: on and from now on in the healing process that 626 00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:08,400 Speaker 7: she has been through fighting since she was a child, 627 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,240 Speaker 7: a child of rape and a runaway in a traffic 628 00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:15,360 Speaker 7: victim and a domestic violence survivor, so it's been a 629 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:18,799 Speaker 7: hard life for her and I really do hope that 630 00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 7: she didn't commit suicide, but it's a highly suspicious death. 631 00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:28,520 Speaker 1: Suspicious, yes it is again Vegas odds. They don't lie. 632 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:36,000 Speaker 1: I hope and pray for justice in this case and tonight. 633 00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: A hero Virginia Geoffrey, who lived a life of torment 634 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: but managed to bring down one of the most powerful 635 00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:57,560 Speaker 1: and most wealthy men in the US, Jeffrey Epstein and 636 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:01,840 Speaker 1: his hinch person Julanne Maxwell, now seeking a presidential pardon. 637 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,000 Speaker 1: She never quit fighting, regardless of the obstacles in front 638 00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:09,959 Speaker 1: of her, and was an inspiration to so many other 639 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:21,720 Speaker 1: sex attack victims around the world. Virginia Jeffrey, godspeed. Nancy 640 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:26,799 Speaker 1: Grace signing off goodbye friend.