1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:05,760 Speaker 1: Oh man, Matt, yes, do you remember this one? This 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:09,399 Speaker 1: is this is one of our big fouries into geopolitics. 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and it was, and one of our earliest 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,280 Speaker 1: into into the subject. Is this is when I really 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: learned your depth of knowledge in in this field. And honestly, 6 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 1: it terrified me knowing that this kind of thing is 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,080 Speaker 1: still happening. Uh, this great Game that we're gonna be 8 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: talking about today, I mean, spoiler alert you probably already 9 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: know this, but man, it's a weird world out there 10 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: in geopolitics. Yeah, I agree, and first I I am flattered, 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: but I don't I don't necessarily agree with you. There 12 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 1: are there are a ton of experts in this field, 13 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: and they also have a ton of disagreements. The Great 14 00:00:55,000 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 1: Game is usually meant to refer to this law silent 15 00:01:01,120 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: war across Central Asia between British and Russian forces. But 16 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,319 Speaker 1: the weirdest thing about it no spoilers, is that something 17 00:01:10,520 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: very much like The Great Game continues in the modern 18 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: day from UFOs two ghosts and government cover ups histories 19 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,679 Speaker 1: world with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 20 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:29,840 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello, everyone, 21 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the show, the show that Never ends. Uh, 22 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: my name is Matt, my name is bed And uh, 23 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 1: we're back in the room. This uh scary dank, dark 24 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: cave of room, and we're here to tell you stories 25 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: because that's why you're here, right, Scary dark, dank stories. Yeah, 26 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: dank old bedtime stories. Hopefully you're tucked in bed with 27 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 1: your whatever product you use to listen to this. Maybe 28 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: you're just pretending to listen to this right now, you're 29 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: not actually listening to it. Maybe you're just channeling this. 30 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: Maybe you can hear electromagnetic waves. Maybe you're currently astray 31 00:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: projecting in this room right now and we just can't 32 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,360 Speaker 1: sense you, which we had talked about before. And as 33 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: you know, if you're listening to the show, the US 34 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:23,359 Speaker 1: government did actually spend millions and millions of dollars researching 35 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 1: this idea of astral projection, and the Soviet Union spent 36 00:02:28,840 --> 00:02:33,359 Speaker 1: even more. Matt, it occurs to me that now, before 37 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: we jump into this, we should tell people that you 38 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: and I had a pretty interesting experience in this room. 39 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: Earlier today we did we got to be guest hosts 40 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: on a show called Stuff to Blow Your Mind. Because 41 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: one of those hosts Julie is currently out of town, 42 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: and uh, we have the privilege of speaking with Mr 43 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: Robert lamb Or he's also known as Dr Anton and Jessup. Well, 44 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: the there's a there's a asking resemblance between those two, 45 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 1: but I believe he would argue they're very different people. Okay, 46 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: that's probably correct. Dr Jessup certainly would. Uh. The thing 47 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:12,919 Speaker 1: that we talk about with Robert on that show, Uh, 48 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 1: you know, we'll leave it to you guys to check 49 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: it out. We don't want to spoil it for you. 50 00:03:17,880 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: But if you are a fan of this show, we 51 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: believe that you will also enjoy stuff to blow your mind. 52 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: Oh yes, if you aren't already a fan, yeah, you 53 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: probably are. Let's be honest. There are a lot bigger 54 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 1: than us on this audio thing. Oh yeah, nothing wrong 55 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: with that though. I believe in cooperation not competition, which 56 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: brings me into a series of questions. By way of segue, 57 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: here for you, Matt, you're ready all right? Do you 58 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: enjoy games? Yes? I enjoy all kinds of games. I 59 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:58,080 Speaker 1: like Vigia games, I like tabletop games, I like meta games, 60 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: even like social game, sociological games. That's that's true. We 61 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: went through a phase. There's a little behind the curtain 62 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: stuff for all our listeners. Uh. You and I went 63 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 1: through a phase where we pretty much studied body language 64 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: to to the point of, um, it's the point of 65 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:23,520 Speaker 1: reading people fairly effectively, I would say. And I fought 66 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: it for a long time. Do you Ben, this is 67 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: still behind the curtain, don't don't look too hard. But 68 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: Ben showed me a book. Uh, and I fought it 69 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 1: really hard. I didn't want to read it. I thought 70 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: it was evil. Oh my gosh, I forgot about it. Yeah, 71 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: but then I ended up looking a little more into it, 72 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: and it's it's pretty terrifying. It's one of those things 73 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 1: you can't unknown. Yeah, yeah, it's true. But the reason 74 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: that I asked you about games is because, uh, you know, 75 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,159 Speaker 1: I love the fact that he said social games. But 76 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,440 Speaker 1: it leads me to my next question, which is, do 77 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 1: you think that empires can coexist? Well? Oh, gosh, I 78 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,839 Speaker 1: guess it depends on how large you want your empire 79 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: to be, and if your empire truly is an empire. Um, 80 00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: I guess if the continents are far enough away, sure, 81 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: sure they can. Okay, if you have like one continent 82 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,760 Speaker 1: over here and there's there's one empire there, one continent 83 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: way over here, separated by lots and lots and lots 84 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: of seawater. Perhaps, Okay, so a buffer of some sort, yes, Okay, 85 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:41,160 Speaker 1: empires can't co exist together. I don't think so. Okay. 86 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: I I see what you're saying. And the reason I 87 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: asked about a game is because today's audio podcast comes 88 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:53,480 Speaker 1: to us from our earlier series on uh Soviet activity 89 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:56,359 Speaker 1: right in Central Asia. You know, all kinds of Soviet 90 00:05:56,400 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: activity we've been covering lately. Yeah, everything from psychotronics to 91 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: attempting to discover Shambala. Yeah, true story, that's so weird 92 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: to me. Still, what we found when we were looking 93 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: for Shambala, or looking for Soviet activity regarding Shambala, is 94 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: that there were two camps of people there. There was 95 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: one camp of what we can call true believers who 96 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: really believe that there was Shambala or Shambala or whatever 97 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: h somewhere north of India, somewhere in the steps, and 98 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: that this land could hold keys to some sort of 99 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,640 Speaker 1: hidden technology. So it's kind of like the conspiracy theories 100 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: regarding Atlantis or lam Area or other fallen Hyperborean type 101 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,720 Speaker 1: civil civilizations and then you've got people who believe Shambala 102 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: is more of a philosophy or a state of mind, 103 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: and they want to create a place where that state 104 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 1: of mind can flourish, and additionally use it as a 105 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:05,520 Speaker 1: way of building support for communism and building support for 106 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: the Soviet Empire anarchies, right at least for at least 107 00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: for Baron Roman von bug Stundberg. However, I found out 108 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: there's more to that name. Yeah, that name is longer. 109 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: I saw it when you made the video. Put the 110 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 1: whole name in there. Uh yeah, there's a vill ham. 111 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that wasn't even the whole name. I put 112 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: as much as I could fill the bottom of the screen. Yeah. 113 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:35,800 Speaker 1: He was very um, very old blood aristocracy. So no 114 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: wonder people, you no wonder he wanted to bring monarchies back. 115 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,120 Speaker 1: He would have been related to so many people. Oh yeah, 116 00:07:43,120 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: he would have been up there. It wasn't exactly altruism. 117 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: So so what we found when we were looking at 118 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: this is that we found the search for Chambala. This 119 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 1: takes place in the twenties and the thirties, nine teens, 120 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 1: twenties and thirties, but we stumbled across something much bigger. 121 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,000 Speaker 1: When we're looking at this part, it turns out that 122 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:14,240 Speaker 1: the Soviet search for this law civilization or this spiritual 123 00:08:14,760 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: haven was just one strange chapter in a much longer 124 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 1: story about something called the Great Game. And of course 125 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 1: you're first question is you know, oh, they invented Tetris 126 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:37,160 Speaker 1: back then, if only, if only? Uh, No, this the 127 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:40,480 Speaker 1: Great Game is something different. It's the term here is 128 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 1: often attributed to a guy named Arthur Connolly. Arthur worked 129 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 1: as an intelligence officer for one of history's most ruthless 130 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: and for time, most successful corporations. That would, of course 131 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: be the British East India Company. Yes, a corporate intelligence officer. 132 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: So he's the one who said so a great game. Yes, 133 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:10,320 Speaker 1: and they're this great game was played between primarily two 134 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 1: uh empires, really two huge empires at the time. You're 135 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: looking at Victorian era England and also the Czarist Russia 136 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: at the time, and they're both vying for power across 137 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,080 Speaker 1: all of Asia. Yeah, and they're each is trying to 138 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: establish hegemony over Tibet, Mongolia, Afghanistan, Pakistan, all the stans, 139 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 1: all the stands, And we should take a second h. 140 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: Hegemony is ultimately the control of a region or area 141 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 1: that is beyond state level power. So the United States 142 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: currently is the hedgemon of North America. You know, plays 143 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 1: nice with a lot of the other countries, but ultimately 144 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: decides when the buck goes and where the buck stops 145 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:10,600 Speaker 1: as to fall into a platitude. So at this point 146 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:15,680 Speaker 1: we have these two huge empires. England, the British Empire, 147 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: has expanded all over the world by far. Their favorite 148 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 1: thing that they have conquered is India. It is the 149 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: crown Jewel, as it was called, of the British Empire. 150 00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:31,559 Speaker 1: And they want to safeguard this Crown Jewel because, um, 151 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: you know, England collection of islands, excuse me, the British Isles, 152 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: collection of islands. And so this, this smaller nation in 153 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: terms of land mass, had conquered a much larger area 154 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: and had enormous geopolitical influence because of this. So they 155 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,600 Speaker 1: want to keep that peace in the pie. But Russia 156 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:56,679 Speaker 1: wants something else. Yeah, Russia is just trying to expand 157 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: expanding its borders, is trying to acquire more and more 158 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: resources and established trade routes to send those resources through. 159 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,360 Speaker 1: Um basically sent them all over Russia. And um, they 160 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,560 Speaker 1: really just want to maintain their influence over the region 161 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,720 Speaker 1: because you know, India isn't that far from their borders, 162 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 1: right yea. So we've got yeah, exactly, We've got Russia expanding, um, 163 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: trying to essentially annexed more nations or at least incorporate them. 164 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:32,520 Speaker 1: And we have England saying, well, how fast is Russia 165 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: and growing here because we already called DIBs on India, 166 00:11:36,000 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: which I know sounds cavalier, especially when we're talking about 167 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: the deaths of literally millions of people, But these were 168 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: the attitudes at the time. These governments, a lot of 169 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: the people making the decisions, we have to remember, were monarchical, 170 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:55,359 Speaker 1: so they were removed from you know, kind of considering 171 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: the common people of their own countries as people. Well, sure, 172 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: and we we tend to forget sometimes that when you're 173 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: in a palace or a boardroom, or just sitting in 174 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 1: an ivory tower, an ivory tower somewhere looking at all 175 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 1: of these ideas, you the best way to look at 176 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:15,960 Speaker 1: them is when make them very small. Make a small 177 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 1: let's say, I don't know, table, wooden table. That's the 178 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: size of West and that's the that's the size of 179 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: the world. And you look at with little pieces. Okay, 180 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,679 Speaker 1: here's where the resources are, Here's where the cities are 181 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: that we want to maintain this area, you can only 182 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 1: see it from that high up. If you really want 183 00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:37,640 Speaker 1: to control it, you have to see it from that 184 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: high up. And this is the nature of the Great Game. 185 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:49,560 Speaker 1: The Great Game became popularized in a book by Ruggyard 186 00:12:49,679 --> 00:12:53,880 Speaker 1: Kipling Uh. He wrote a book called Kim and Kim 187 00:12:53,960 --> 00:13:01,679 Speaker 1: is about this British orphan who is orphaned in India 188 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:06,959 Speaker 1: and he eventually begins to have adventures as a spy 189 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:13,680 Speaker 1: working for the British Empire in the Great Game. And 190 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 1: that would be of course, trying to counter expanding Russian 191 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: influence there. The Great Game itself is generally seen as 192 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: starting around eighteen thirteen when Russia and Persia signed something 193 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: called either the Treaty Gullistan or the Russia Russo Persian 194 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: Treaty um. And it did a couple of things that 195 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: really set the set the stage of the game. And 196 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: one of those was it gave Russia control of several 197 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: key pieces of real estate, which would be Azerbaijan, Augustan, 198 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:52,959 Speaker 1: and basically eastern Georgia. Yeah, and that was a pretty 199 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: nasty blow to England at that time, because they had 200 00:13:56,880 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 1: some heavy influence in Persia. You know, they had advisors 201 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: in the court and stuff. Um. And this expansion, which 202 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,000 Speaker 1: goes back to the original question I have for you 203 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: about whether empires can coexist and if so, how Uh 204 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 1: this question became increasingly important and you can actually measure 205 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,600 Speaker 1: on the ground how much more important this question became. Um. 206 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:28,840 Speaker 1: And it's roughly three thousand miles. Yeah. At one earlier point, 207 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,360 Speaker 1: the distance between the closest Russian and English empire outpost 208 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: was about four thousand miles. Uh. In a very short 209 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,040 Speaker 1: amount of time, it got to as little as one 210 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:44,360 Speaker 1: thousand miles. Uh. The thing that happened was a real 211 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: life secret war. So the interesting thing about this secret 212 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: war is that it's not you're not dealing with massive battles. 213 00:14:55,280 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: You're not. You're not dealing with armies that are ready 214 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 1: to go to war with one another at any time. 215 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: Well you are, but you're not seeing that happen. You're 216 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 1: dealing with intrigue. You're dealing with literally secrets and espionage. Um. 217 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: Basically in the dark. It's a war in the dark. 218 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,800 Speaker 1: I like that phrase. Yeah, we're talking about some of 219 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: the same people that we mentioned in the video series, right, 220 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: Barchenko and ror Rich. Rorrich especially was functioning as a 221 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: spy often. That guy is fascinating, by the way, We 222 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: need to do a whole series just on him. Yeah, 223 00:15:33,720 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: he impersonated the Dalai Lama. If you haven't seen our 224 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: episode on this yet, please check out Soviet Search for 225 00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: Shamba lah Okay. So we have got English and Russian agents, 226 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: as you said, Matt, fighting this war in the dark. 227 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: They're traveling in disguises, monks and shamans and horse traders. 228 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: And you know, keep in mind this is still kind 229 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: of in the age of what would be known as 230 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 1: Napoleonic warfare. Napole Leonic warfare is when again a very 231 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: isolated person in power said, I should just line these 232 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 1: guys up, and you know, get my buddy that I'm 233 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 1: probably related to the line his guy his guys up, 234 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: and we'll sit at the top of our mutual hills, 235 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: and you know, see how many of them survive in them. 236 00:16:23,720 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: And yeah, and at this time, of course, if we 237 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 1: look at a little bit of the military history, you know, 238 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: the the evolution of firearms also taking place, would ultimately 239 00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:40,600 Speaker 1: mean that Napoleonic tactics were suicidal, but no matter what, 240 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: even before then they were. They were very bloody, and 241 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,800 Speaker 1: people were avoiding an out and out war by trying 242 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: to subtly garner influence. So the Russian Empires sent somebody 243 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,600 Speaker 1: to visit the Dalai Lama, and then the British team 244 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: would send somebody to visit the amiror off Anastan and 245 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: war lords and Mongolia and other leaders of Stan's you 246 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: know e merits and stuff and and yeah, they would 247 00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:16,199 Speaker 1: maintain contact openly with with Moscow and and Uhna with 248 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: London as though everything's cool, guys, where everything's fine. They'll 249 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: have a meeting. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have a meeting. 250 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: But as I'm having this meeting, buddy's over there and 251 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: he's got the year of some warlord who's planning some 252 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: bad things against you. And Russian and England would also, 253 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,919 Speaker 1: when it was necessary cooperate to stop mutual threats. So 254 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:39,919 Speaker 1: the biggest example of this is the cooperation between the 255 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:44,200 Speaker 1: British and the Russians during World War Two, which is 256 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 1: weird because it makes you think, doesn't it that this 257 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: game has been playing for quite a long time. I mean, 258 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: I know, chess games can take a while, but Jesus, yeah, 259 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:58,920 Speaker 1: that's what is omark God, that's over a hundred years, 260 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:02,640 Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty years. Yeah, So it's been going 261 00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: on for a while, and that led us to think 262 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,040 Speaker 1: about how the Great Game has molded the world in 263 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: which we live today. So the Great Game has had 264 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: effects on Afghanistan which were I mean they are they 265 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:22,520 Speaker 1: have been catastrophic. Um. And it's it's severely limited the 266 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:27,880 Speaker 1: possible development of Afghanistan because of the Separation Act that's occurred, 267 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: the coagulation of of power inside that country. Yeah. Uh, 268 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,639 Speaker 1: and that that country was also used as a buffer 269 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: state to because you know, it's between Russia and India, 270 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: or it was at the time, and battles, if there 271 00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 1: ever was a battle between those two powers, that's where 272 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,199 Speaker 1: it's going to take place. And uh, those effects, of 273 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:59,240 Speaker 1: course were catastrophic. The other the Stans were also influenced, Kazakhstan, Ministan, Tajakhstan, 274 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: Kurgis on was Pakistan as well, um, because they ultimately 275 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: were quote unquote one by the Soviet Party about the 276 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: Russian side, so they remained part of the U. S. 277 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: S R. Um you know, they remained part of Russia 278 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: effectively even after the revolution in nineteen seventeen, and when 279 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: they were under this era of Soviet rule, they were 280 00:19:30,359 --> 00:19:38,120 Speaker 1: still really important from a uh geopolitical stance because they 281 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: they had these um massive resources. I think somebody checked 282 00:19:42,880 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: me if I'm wrong on this. I think it was. 283 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:49,360 Speaker 1: Bakistan was known as um one of the bread baskets 284 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:53,359 Speaker 1: of Russia. So they supplied the Soviet Union with with 285 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: a lot of food and unfortunately, because the central planning, 286 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 1: a lot of people starved while they were exporting food. 287 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: Um yeah, that's insane in it it turns out that 288 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,440 Speaker 1: the resources that are acquired in these areas when you're 289 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: in control of those areas, end up having a huge 290 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: impact on what you're able to do that don't necessarily 291 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: affect the bottom line of the empire, right because these 292 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 1: are it's like having extra resources. So one great example 293 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: is the Eurasian opium fields, and they basically gave England 294 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: the means to pedal drugs to China um in what 295 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:33,639 Speaker 1: it ultimately became the Opium Wars, but it was basically 296 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: an extra resource for them to get more money, right yeah, 297 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: Because if you think about it, they're not growing opium 298 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: in the British Isles. They're not. They're not, they'd be 299 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 1: completely against it. Yeah, it's not in my backyard. Kind 300 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: of right, kind of makes you think about current Afghanistan 301 00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:56,240 Speaker 1: right where opium production has skyrocketed. Is that correct? Yeah, 302 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 1: some of the same opium fields. As a matter of fact, 303 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:03,199 Speaker 1: in that is strange. Uh, the Opium Wars deserve a 304 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:09,640 Speaker 1: podcast all their own, But for now, this quick recap, 305 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,080 Speaker 1: just a high level look at the nature of what's 306 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:16,040 Speaker 1: going on, brings us to the big question of the day. 307 00:21:18,000 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 1: When when do you think the Great Game stopped? Or 308 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:26,760 Speaker 1: do you think it stopped? Between those two powers specifically? 309 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: I mean, how how could you ever prove that it stopped? Right? Yeah, 310 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 1: that's a good question because it's so much of it 311 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: was waged in a clandestine way and depended upon espionage, 312 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,680 Speaker 1: and you're you're still looking at two massive I mean, 313 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: there's there are, there are large powers. I don't know 314 00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: if Russia is considered a superpower anymore. I believe they are. 315 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 1: I've just read was reading an article about is Russia 316 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,160 Speaker 1: will will Russia become a superpower? Yeah? You probably heard 317 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,239 Speaker 1: some varying estmates is probably the most fair word to 318 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:08,840 Speaker 1: use here of Russia's ability. Um, Sometimes people will say 319 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:13,119 Speaker 1: that the only reason Russia's at the level it is 320 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,120 Speaker 1: in the U N. Security Council is because of World 321 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,359 Speaker 1: War Two, that it's just the legacy from that, or 322 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:23,080 Speaker 1: that it is a developing nation that's there because it 323 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: has a strangle hold on gas, and often, weirdly enough, 324 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: in the United States, uh, conservative politicians like to say 325 00:22:34,800 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: that the United States should begin exporting natural gas to 326 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:44,679 Speaker 1: Europe as a way of kurt hailing Russia's influence. It 327 00:22:44,840 --> 00:22:49,200 Speaker 1: is also fair to say that at this point, those 328 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: guys are the nicest way you could say it is optimistic, 329 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,560 Speaker 1: is literally the nicest way. But yes, so, the idea 330 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: of Russia being a superpower is something that is tremendously 331 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:07,399 Speaker 1: important to Russia's long term strategy right and could be 332 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:12,160 Speaker 1: threatening to other countries, but not just the United States. 333 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: Because I think it's obvious, Matt, that you and I 334 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: both believe the great game continues. I think it absolutely does. 335 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: And perhaps just a few more players have joined. Oh yeah, yeah, 336 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 1: who would you who who would you say has joined 337 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: the game? Well, the chessboard, Well, certainly the United States Um, 338 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:34,159 Speaker 1: certainly China. Um. Just if you look at some of 339 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: the spying that goes on and now the known spying 340 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:43,880 Speaker 1: that the US continues has been and continues to write implement. Um. 341 00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:48,679 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, as we're as we're recording this. Angela Merkel, 342 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 1: the Prime Minister of Germany right, was in the news 343 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: for being rejected by the n s A when she asked, Hey, 344 00:23:55,280 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: can you guys give me the stuff you stole from 345 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 1: my cell phone? Yeah? Can I at least see the 346 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,320 Speaker 1: things the file on me? Yeah? I understand why they 347 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 1: wouldn't do that, but stuff to look classy doing that. 348 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 1: Going back to going back to this, Yeah, the too. 349 00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: Two of the big new players in the game are 350 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: China and the United States. Now, for a time, China 351 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: was not able to be a peer level regional power 352 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: due to in fighting, due to um the tremendous influence 353 00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,800 Speaker 1: of both the British and the Russian empires. Today, China 354 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: is ascendant and one of its big concerns in Eurasia 355 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 1: is fortifying its security in Western China and making sure 356 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,520 Speaker 1: that it has secure access to energy. So this this 357 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: means petroleum from the Middle East and Central Asia, natural gas, 358 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: any of those products. Interestingly enough, China is also the 359 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: world leader in construction of some alternative energy, world leader 360 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: in building solar. Yeah. Well, and solar is it. I mean, 361 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:12,600 Speaker 1: there is no question solar will be huge, And I 362 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: don't know how you can ever stop solar power from 363 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 1: becoming the next thing, just because it's once it passes 364 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,920 Speaker 1: that threshold of being able to make it cheaply enough. Yeah, 365 00:25:22,280 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: then I mean, well it's over all. The other energies 366 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: can go take a hike, man, because the sun is 367 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,560 Speaker 1: not going out. So that's interesting to say this. Now. Um, 368 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: the big the new Anglo player in the Great Game is, 369 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,399 Speaker 1: of course, as you said, the United States. There's some 370 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: strange similarities here because the United States, like the British 371 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,920 Speaker 1: Empire in the beginning of the Great Game, does not 372 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: actually have sovereign territory. They're they're interested in establishing a 373 00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:03,160 Speaker 1: hedgemonty hegeminy. Many people would argue, uh, for the purpose 374 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 1: of collecting resources and also for the purpose of preventing 375 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: other threats to that rule. Um, you know, the biggest 376 00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,520 Speaker 1: one would be a lot of people think the biggest 377 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: one would be either China and Russia. But if you 378 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:21,159 Speaker 1: look at the way they're playing the game. Iran is 379 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 1: the one is the country in the target in in 380 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: the in the scope sites. Yeah, they've got a really 381 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,000 Speaker 1: big friend in the Middle East that you know, we 382 00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: have a really big friend in the Middle East that 383 00:26:33,680 --> 00:26:38,359 Speaker 1: we have to protect. UM is real, Iran is there, 384 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,399 Speaker 1: is certainly there the biggest they feel it. Iran is 385 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,399 Speaker 1: their biggest threat. So we'll not saying that it's making 386 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 1: the US and necessarily do what it's doing, but it 387 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: certainly helps. Now. I think, you know, I think that 388 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 1: the United States is looking at Iran for a different reason, 389 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,679 Speaker 1: for a much more pragmatic reason. Know you know, you 390 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: and I had already talked about this in an earlier show, 391 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: and we're both fairly skeptical. I'm even dismissive of people 392 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 1: or politicians at least who make arguments for wars based 393 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 1: on ideology. It just doesn't cut it. I don't I 394 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:22,119 Speaker 1: don't believe it. I want to see some numbers, and 395 00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 1: I think there is a number play here in preventing 396 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: a wrong. There's also that very interesting um conspiracy theory 397 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 1: about petro dollars, right, and and that Petro dollar bring 398 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: the back of the U S at least that's what 399 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: I've been hearing of a financial hedge on hedgemonty, and 400 00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: we're saying the word too often. Now we know that, 401 00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,760 Speaker 1: we know that the United States, like China, wants to 402 00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: secure access to reliable energy for itself, but also for 403 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:01,680 Speaker 1: another player in the game that we'll get to. Let's 404 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 1: go to Russia, one of the oldest, longest players in 405 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: the game, Matt. What does Russia want? Well, it definitely 406 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,399 Speaker 1: wants to re establish its influence over the rest of 407 00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: the area, um, not just inside Russia. And we can 408 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: see that happening right now currently. Don't call it a 409 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:25,560 Speaker 1: come back, yeah, um so yeah, they're they're interested in expanding, um, 410 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 1: revitalizing kind of the the old Russian Empire, the part 411 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 1: I mean, not necessarily the Soviet Empire per se, but 412 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: you know, regaining some of that. Give me back my stands, yeah, 413 00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:42,080 Speaker 1: Uncle Sam. Right now, it's you know, the the US 414 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: and Russia are at logger heads over the presence of 415 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: US military bases in uh in some I think a Pakistan, 416 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: maybe Kazakhstan as well, I can't remember uh and those 417 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:59,240 Speaker 1: are being used to support US operations in Afghanistan and 418 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:06,479 Speaker 1: additionally as building a possibility to wage war with Iran, 419 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:11,440 Speaker 1: which is unfortunately on the horizon the So that makes 420 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: sense that Russia wants to gain back its influence and 421 00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:18,760 Speaker 1: gain back control of the areas that it lost during 422 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: the fall of the U. S. S R. And I 423 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: would say it has I'm not an historian. I'm not sure. 424 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: I don't study this stuff very often. It just would 425 00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: make sense that there are still resources, important resources in 426 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: those areas, um, that they want to get back. Oh, yeah, absolutely, 427 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: I mean, like you said earlier, most of these things 428 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: are resource based in some way. Um, there is a 429 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,480 Speaker 1: reason you go, you send an army into a place 430 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:50,280 Speaker 1: where you try and take over a land space, and 431 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: it's not usually because of an ideological reason. Yeah, it's 432 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: not because you like folk songs or whatever. I'm pardon 433 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: me for sounding so dismissive speaking of cynicism. There is 434 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: another very old player in this game, and it's a 435 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: very old player that a lot of people forget to 436 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: their detriment. And I don't blame me because it doesn't 437 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,800 Speaker 1: get reported on the news as often as it should. 438 00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: The corporation the the original reason that we even kind 439 00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: of learned about this because of that intelligence officer who 440 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:31,760 Speaker 1: was working for a corporation. Yeah. Absolutely, Sometimes we might 441 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: forget that, Uh, energy companies and finance companies or those 442 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: concerning the financial sector can wield enormous interest u enormous 443 00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:47,680 Speaker 1: influence as well, and in some cases having some sort 444 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: of influence is crucial to their survival. You know, we 445 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: we forget often that, Um, the role of oil exploration 446 00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 1: played a big part in some of what the British 447 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,040 Speaker 1: Empire did when it divided different countries up you know, 448 00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: in the in the period leading up to the modern date. Uh, 449 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 1: we forget sometimes how dependent other countries can become on 450 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: loans from you know, private and semi public private sources 451 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: like the I m F for the World Bank, and 452 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:32,240 Speaker 1: in some cases these organizations can provide tremendously necessary resources, 453 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:36,480 Speaker 1: you know, better roads, school, sanitation, all of these things 454 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,160 Speaker 1: that countries need to order in order to get a 455 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,200 Speaker 1: chance to develop. As long as the I m F 456 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: or whoever gets their peace too, as Yeah, as long 457 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: as the whatever agreements they make are something that they 458 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: that they hold up to and that they are allowed 459 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: to hold up to by anything else. Because what's interesting 460 00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:00,360 Speaker 1: when we read about this is that many of the 461 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 1: people in the situations here, especially historically, many of the 462 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: people who were Eurasian elites, you know, llamas or uh 463 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:16,160 Speaker 1: in mirrors and stuff like that. These people learned a 464 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 1: very careful balancing act, you know. So you would say 465 00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: one thing to the British to play them off the 466 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: Russians in order to hopefully make your area of the 467 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: world a little bit better or at least a little 468 00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: bit less dangerous. It's interesting now the world in which 469 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: we live, where so much is open or at least 470 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:41,920 Speaker 1: able to be captured. Um. For everything from a cable 471 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: that's sent from one country to another, one diplomat to another, 472 00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: I see interception. Yeah, there could be an interception and 473 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,960 Speaker 1: now it's open, just like what happened with those diplomatic 474 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: cables that got leaked. Um. It shows you exactly what 475 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 1: you're talking about. Where we're we're playing a game, well, 476 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: all all countries are playing some kind of weird game 477 00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:09,120 Speaker 1: to make everyone think that no, it's cool, man, we're good. 478 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 1: Is it is? It sort of like that game where, um, 479 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 1: I don't know if you listeners did this. When you 480 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: were a kid, we had this game where we would 481 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,680 Speaker 1: play tag in a library, which you couldn't run because 482 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: you were being watched by teachers. So there were a 483 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,760 Speaker 1: lot of people just power walking after each other until 484 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 1: the eyes of the teachers were off them for a moment, 485 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: at which point they made mad dashes. I ever did that, Well, 486 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:38,560 Speaker 1: we could try it in the office. I don't know 487 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,000 Speaker 1: who would who would care? But UH, this this is 488 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,480 Speaker 1: interesting because you know, we always like to do a 489 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,360 Speaker 1: little bit of further reading, a little bit of stuff 490 00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:52,280 Speaker 1: to recommend this whole topic. While it might seem a 491 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,520 Speaker 1: little bit dry and removed from the average person's life, 492 00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:01,040 Speaker 1: especially in the United States or in Europe. UM, the 493 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 1: point of the matter is that people who are in 494 00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,760 Speaker 1: charge of state level decisions, you know, those the wise 495 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: old men and women who advise UH, the advertised leader, 496 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 1: you know, whether it's a I don't know, CEO, prime minister, 497 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 1: president or whatever. These Uh the intelligencia of International Affairs 498 00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:28,839 Speaker 1: very much believes in this concept of a grand game 499 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: and that UH, Eurasia is ultimately the big either melting pot, 500 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: opportunity point or point of conflict in in the world 501 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: going forward. And when I say advisors, I don't mean 502 00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:49,120 Speaker 1: people that were working in the nineteen forties. I mean 503 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: people who were still working much more recently, like Zabeg 504 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,680 Speaker 1: new Brazynski, who wrote a book called The Grand Chessboard 505 00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,439 Speaker 1: where he argues the same thing any basically who says 506 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 1: nothing has changed, People like Henry Kissinger, people like the 507 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 1: advisors to putin uh pun himself. So when you get 508 00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 1: to that level, you have to have an understanding of 509 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: the history or else you can't You're not allowed. I mean, 510 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: you can't be here if you don't have a vast 511 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: understanding of the history of what you are doing. And 512 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:26,520 Speaker 1: sometimes that history does get lost in ideology. Very true. Uh, 513 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 1: But this goes back to our This goes back to 514 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,080 Speaker 1: our question because if you think about it, if you 515 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:36,480 Speaker 1: think back to the early days of the of the 516 00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: Great Game, we had, um, we had a corporate power 517 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: working with a state power to achieve the British Empire. 518 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: And you know, if we're being honest, state and corporate 519 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: powers have always historically intermingled. You know. Um. The separation 520 00:35:55,640 --> 00:36:01,080 Speaker 1: of Yeah, the separation of a corporation from a you know, 521 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,400 Speaker 1: a family or a monarchy as an official state power 522 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: is a little more recent than we would like to believe. 523 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,719 Speaker 1: For me, it's of the way I visualize it, it's 524 00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: the corporate side, is the funding powers, the money powers 525 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:22,760 Speaker 1: to an extent, and then the army or the warrying 526 00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: power is with the state, at least the way I'm 527 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: seeing it currently, And they have to because you know, 528 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,200 Speaker 1: somebody has all the money. Sometimes it's the monarch that has, 529 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 1: you know, the treasure trove room, but usually it's the 530 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,640 Speaker 1: wealth of your nation. Um, which isn't always, not always 531 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,799 Speaker 1: controlled by the state power. Yeah, no, I know it 532 00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:50,640 Speaker 1: sounds incredibly cynical to talk this way about this because 533 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 1: one of the questions that would pop up would be, 534 00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:59,160 Speaker 1: you know, ideally, why can these states not have their independence, 535 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:03,960 Speaker 1: why can they not be able to democratically elect their 536 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,520 Speaker 1: leaders in real elections on some kind of kangaroo court election, 537 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: And why wouldn't they be able to pursue their own 538 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:17,760 Speaker 1: interests that would benefit them rather than a larger regional power. UM. 539 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,880 Speaker 1: I totally agree. I think they should be able to 540 00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:22,920 Speaker 1: do that, But the point of the matter is that 541 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: often they end up being client states or being proxy 542 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,320 Speaker 1: the scenes of proxy wars. I hope that this doesn't 543 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,680 Speaker 1: happen again, But it leads us to the question, Matt, 544 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: do you think that empires can coexist. I don't know, dude. 545 00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,120 Speaker 1: I feel as though one day there will be no 546 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 1: such thing as and well there maybe there will be 547 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: one empire. Who knows, Maybe it'll be death Star like 548 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 1: and it's gonna be really intense, cloaked dudes that can 549 00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:00,799 Speaker 1: wield some kind of supernatural power. I would be in, 550 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 1: really your sacrifice democracy for superpower? Are you kidding? Well, 551 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: if it feels like we have to head that way, 552 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:13,000 Speaker 1: is as as much as it pains me to say 553 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 1: that it feels like a global power is inevitable or 554 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,600 Speaker 1: else you mean a single global power? Yeah, like a 555 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,360 Speaker 1: like a freaky empire, a freaky one empire thing. See, 556 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,880 Speaker 1: I think that could happen, but it couldn't be permanent. Well, 557 00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: I could see a um, I could see something like 558 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:35,280 Speaker 1: nine eight four's political situation existing where there are three 559 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 1: huge states that have always been at war with each other, 560 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:43,319 Speaker 1: always been allied with one another. But if you, if 561 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: you play the Great Game effectively, you could convince let's 562 00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 1: let's say they're there are three right, Uh, I'm just 563 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,600 Speaker 1: trapolating here, But if you're playing the Great Game effectively enough, 564 00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,799 Speaker 1: then you could convince. If you're one number one. You 565 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:05,920 Speaker 1: could convince after defeating two and three kind of below 566 00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 1: board or through espionage or whatever you do it, you 567 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: could convince the people who live in two and three 568 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,960 Speaker 1: that two and three still exist and everything's okay and 569 00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:19,759 Speaker 1: nothing has changed, when really the power is with the 570 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: with only one. So so it's simple just lie to 571 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: billions of people and never get caught. Yeah, well, it 572 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 1: takes you to Elvis Huxley's world, and when you combine 573 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,760 Speaker 1: in the Brave New World, then you start look getting 574 00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:37,920 Speaker 1: close to what our world looks like, a brave New nine. 575 00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 1: That's kind of cool. Mann, Well what do you think then? 576 00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: I think, all right, this is gonna sound a little 577 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,360 Speaker 1: bit fringe. I'm sure the person much smarter than me 578 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,160 Speaker 1: has figured out this theory. This is just my two cents, 579 00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:59,080 Speaker 1: entirely speculation. Okay. So in the beginning, we had we 580 00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:02,960 Speaker 1: being humanit we had the tribe, and the tribe was 581 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 1: something that happened due to survival. We found that it 582 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:12,160 Speaker 1: was in the beginning especially it was necessary to have 583 00:40:12,239 --> 00:40:16,560 Speaker 1: other people to help you to survive. Right, So we 584 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 1: said this precedent from the tribe arrived the religion and 585 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:26,640 Speaker 1: the religion said there is a reason for us existing 586 00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:31,080 Speaker 1: other than just to survive here, and we are different 587 00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:37,799 Speaker 1: to other people, and we or they deserve something good 588 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: or bad. So the tribe started for survival. The religion 589 00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:49,120 Speaker 1: gave a reason, and the state advanced a method. And 590 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,360 Speaker 1: the method of the state is that there are certain 591 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:59,440 Speaker 1: explicit rules that are pragmatic. We're not telling you necessarily 592 00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:03,239 Speaker 1: what's going to happen when you die, or we're not 593 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,239 Speaker 1: telling you about the intangible spiritual things, but we are 594 00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: telling you that if you steal an elephant, you are 595 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 1: going to jail, because that is not what makes society work. 596 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,520 Speaker 1: So let's let's put in these rules that allows something 597 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:22,680 Speaker 1: like a supertribe to exist, you know. So then we 598 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:28,360 Speaker 1: went from the state to the corporation. And what the 599 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:34,800 Speaker 1: corporation says is uh still kind of left open to question. 600 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,480 Speaker 1: But in my in my opinion, what will ultimately become 601 00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 1: the biggest player in the great game will be some 602 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,719 Speaker 1: sort of British East India thing, some sort of private 603 00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:52,239 Speaker 1: corporation I could easily see in our lifetimes. There's the 604 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:55,640 Speaker 1: worst part. I could easily see in our lifetimes some 605 00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,480 Speaker 1: sort of state or area of the world that is 606 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:07,680 Speaker 1: transparently and obviously controlled by a corporation. And I don't 607 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:14,840 Speaker 1: mean some sort of sticky corruption charge. Yeah, I mean yeah, 608 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,440 Speaker 1: I mean like, uh, you know, Luxembourg presented by Google. 609 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 1: I think it's just gonna be a Google stand or 610 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:26,359 Speaker 1: Google I mean you and and and here's the thing. 611 00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:30,440 Speaker 1: Here's the thing. Depending on what which corporation it is, 612 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,399 Speaker 1: or how it works out, it might be better than 613 00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 1: the alternative. It might actually be better to live in 614 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 1: a Google stand. As terrible as that sounds. Now, we 615 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:45,240 Speaker 1: have to remember that the human race and and trying 616 00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:49,640 Speaker 1: to work with itself, is this continual evolution. So I 617 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,080 Speaker 1: think that soon um. And when I say soon, I 618 00:42:53,080 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: mean the grand scheme of things. Uh, the corporation, which 619 00:42:57,080 --> 00:43:01,080 Speaker 1: would be the fourth step, will supersede the state. Yeah, 620 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,719 Speaker 1: but what comes after the corporation? Man, I don't know. 621 00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:06,040 Speaker 1: I I just want to go to space. I'm gonna 622 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: be ansked with you. I just I want to go 623 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,200 Speaker 1: to space. I'm not going to sell my soul for ticket, 624 00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,880 Speaker 1: and I don't really believe in too much of that anyway, 625 00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:16,920 Speaker 1: But just in case I'm not going to sell it, 626 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: you can metaphorically sell your soul? You've metaphor? Do you 627 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:23,400 Speaker 1: remember that Simpsons episode where Bart sold his soul and 628 00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:27,200 Speaker 1: he couldn't fog the glass in the automatic door? Whatn' 629 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: open for him? Man? That got to me? Functioned on soul? 630 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,319 Speaker 1: Isn't that interesting? Yeah? More than a sermon? That got 631 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,879 Speaker 1: to me? I thought those doors are convenient? What will 632 00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,319 Speaker 1: I do? Oh? The Simpsons teaching teaching people like you 633 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: and I how the world works and how morality works. 634 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,440 Speaker 1: And let's toss it to you listeners. We hope that 635 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,600 Speaker 1: you enjoyed this episode, and we want to know what 636 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,760 Speaker 1: you think? Uh? What? What do you think will happen 637 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,400 Speaker 1: in these countries that we in the West here so 638 00:43:56,560 --> 00:44:02,920 Speaker 1: little about? Who, if anyone, do you think will eventually 639 00:44:02,920 --> 00:44:08,439 Speaker 1: control Eurasia? Uh? Will somebody win the Great Game? Here's 640 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:12,320 Speaker 1: a good one. Is it possible to win the Great Game? 641 00:44:12,840 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 1: Or does it just continue? That's great? And be sure 642 00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:22,600 Speaker 1: to to go on Facebook and give us a little message. Um, 643 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,520 Speaker 1: tell us what you think about this stuff. You can 644 00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:26,839 Speaker 1: find us where Conspiracy Stuff. You can find us on Twitter. 645 00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,279 Speaker 1: We're at conspiracy Stuff. Make sure you check out our 646 00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,400 Speaker 1: old episode called The Long Deception, which talks about the 647 00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 1: Soviet Union and whether or not it actually collapsed. Really 648 00:44:38,120 --> 00:44:42,040 Speaker 1: interesting stuff, and that's the end of this classic episode. 649 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: If you have any thoughts or questions about this episode, 650 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:48,399 Speaker 1: you can get into contact with us in a number 651 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,399 Speaker 1: of different ways. One of the best is to give 652 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:53,040 Speaker 1: us a call. Our number is one eight three three 653 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:56,239 Speaker 1: std w y t K. If you don't want to 654 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,840 Speaker 1: do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email. 655 00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:03,760 Speaker 1: We are piracy at i heart radio dot com. Stuff 656 00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 1: they Don't want you to Know is a production of 657 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 1: I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 658 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 659 00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,040 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.