1 00:00:14,036 --> 00:00:21,476 Speaker 1: Push it. Hey, it's Khalil and Ben. We'll be back 2 00:00:21,476 --> 00:00:24,916 Speaker 1: with our regularly scheduled episode of Some of My Best 3 00:00:24,996 --> 00:00:28,676 Speaker 1: Friends Are in a few weeks. But today we wanted 4 00:00:28,716 --> 00:00:32,156 Speaker 1: to share with you a preview of another podcast we've 5 00:00:32,196 --> 00:00:35,716 Speaker 1: been enjoying. We think you're gonna enjoy it too. The 6 00:00:35,836 --> 00:00:41,756 Speaker 1: show's called Future Hindsight. Host Mila Atmost takes big ideas 7 00:00:41,796 --> 00:00:45,476 Speaker 1: about civic life and democracy and turns them into action 8 00:00:45,556 --> 00:00:48,836 Speaker 1: items for all of us. What you can do beyond 9 00:00:48,956 --> 00:00:52,276 Speaker 1: voting short of running for office. Turns out there are 10 00:00:52,316 --> 00:00:57,516 Speaker 1: so many possibilities. Mila has compelling conversations with public servants, 11 00:00:57,636 --> 00:01:02,796 Speaker 1: nonprofit leaders, lawyers, and experts like activists Cecil Richards, political 12 00:01:02,836 --> 00:01:07,796 Speaker 1: scientist Ian Bremer, and the executive director of Supermajority Amanda 13 00:01:07,916 --> 00:01:13,036 Speaker 1: Brown Lehman Man Khalil I am sold because together they 14 00:01:13,076 --> 00:01:16,596 Speaker 1: tell the story about your power and agency. You'll always 15 00:01:16,596 --> 00:01:18,956 Speaker 1: get a dose of hope and inspiration on how you 16 00:01:18,996 --> 00:01:22,236 Speaker 1: can get involved. The preview we're sharing with you today 17 00:01:22,516 --> 00:01:26,956 Speaker 1: features Ian Haney Lopez, the Chief Justice Earl Warren, Professor 18 00:01:26,996 --> 00:01:30,556 Speaker 1: of Public Law at the University of California, Berkeley and 19 00:01:30,756 --> 00:01:34,916 Speaker 1: author of Merge Left. Haney Lopez focuses on what he 20 00:01:35,036 --> 00:01:39,436 Speaker 1: calls strategic racism. What if racism is a class weapon 21 00:01:39,796 --> 00:01:43,196 Speaker 1: that is rooted in making profit for elites? And if 22 00:01:43,236 --> 00:01:46,156 Speaker 1: that's the case, what are the possible solutions to end 23 00:01:46,236 --> 00:01:49,796 Speaker 1: racism and to win elections. Yeah? I really like this 24 00:01:49,876 --> 00:01:55,276 Speaker 1: episode because there's a part when he fully explains why 25 00:01:55,436 --> 00:01:58,396 Speaker 1: poor white people in this country have everything to gain 26 00:01:58,876 --> 00:02:02,356 Speaker 1: if they can get past the elite manipulation. That alone 27 00:02:02,836 --> 00:02:06,676 Speaker 1: is worth listening to. Let's listen in let's do it 28 00:02:07,556 --> 00:02:10,916 Speaker 1: as we tape this. Primaries in Ohio are heating up, 29 00:02:11,236 --> 00:02:14,356 Speaker 1: and I wanted to play you clips from a couple 30 00:02:14,356 --> 00:02:16,996 Speaker 1: of campaign ads and get your thoughts on them. We're 31 00:02:16,996 --> 00:02:20,836 Speaker 1: going to hear excerpts from ads from jd Vance and 32 00:02:21,156 --> 00:02:24,356 Speaker 1: Josh Mandel, who are among the candidates competing in the 33 00:02:24,476 --> 00:02:28,676 Speaker 1: GOP primary to run for Rob Portman's seat. Let's listen, 34 00:02:28,756 --> 00:02:32,476 Speaker 1: and I'd love to hear your reaction. Are you a racist? 35 00:02:33,076 --> 00:02:36,236 Speaker 1: Do you hate Mexicans? The media calls us racists for 36 00:02:36,316 --> 00:02:39,276 Speaker 1: wanting to build Truck's wall. They censor us, but it 37 00:02:39,316 --> 00:02:42,876 Speaker 1: doesn't change the truth. Joe Biden's open border is killing 38 00:02:42,916 --> 00:02:46,436 Speaker 1: Ohioans with more illegal drugs and more Democrat voters pouring 39 00:02:46,436 --> 00:02:50,476 Speaker 1: into this country. This issue is personal. I nearly lost 40 00:02:50,516 --> 00:02:53,236 Speaker 1: my mother to the boys coming across our border. No 41 00:02:53,396 --> 00:02:56,116 Speaker 1: child should grow up an orphan. I'm JD. Vans, and 42 00:02:56,156 --> 00:02:59,276 Speaker 1: I approve this message because whatever they call us, we 43 00:02:59,396 --> 00:03:04,476 Speaker 1: will put America first. Critical race theory is crap. Martin 44 00:03:04,556 --> 00:03:08,716 Speaker 1: Luther King marsh right here, so skin color wouldn't matter. 45 00:03:09,476 --> 00:03:12,796 Speaker 1: I didn't do two tours and ombar province fighting alongside 46 00:03:12,796 --> 00:03:15,316 Speaker 1: marines of every color to come home and be called 47 00:03:15,316 --> 00:03:19,596 Speaker 1: a racist. There's nothing racist about stopping critical race theory 48 00:03:19,876 --> 00:03:25,796 Speaker 1: and loving America. Josh Mandel pro god, pro gun, pro Trump. 49 00:03:26,196 --> 00:03:28,956 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Mandel, and I approved this message. You want 50 00:03:28,996 --> 00:03:32,356 Speaker 1: a fighter sending the marine. So what do you think? 51 00:03:33,356 --> 00:03:37,036 Speaker 1: This is classic dog whistle politics in the sense that 52 00:03:37,516 --> 00:03:45,876 Speaker 1: it's using rhetoric design to trigger deeply rooted racist resentments 53 00:03:45,916 --> 00:03:50,596 Speaker 1: and anxieties, while allowing people to believe that they are 54 00:03:50,676 --> 00:03:56,436 Speaker 1: not in fact expressing or being stampeded by racist fears 55 00:03:56,476 --> 00:04:01,756 Speaker 1: or anxieties. There's something that's new here, and that is 56 00:04:01,796 --> 00:04:05,996 Speaker 1: the attacks on critical race theory from Mandel Knew. Also 57 00:04:06,196 --> 00:04:10,396 Speaker 1: in the sense of JD. Vance, are you a racist? 58 00:04:10,756 --> 00:04:16,636 Speaker 1: One of the primary messages from the right today is 59 00:04:16,716 --> 00:04:24,316 Speaker 1: that after the mass mobilizations to protest police killings and 60 00:04:24,396 --> 00:04:27,436 Speaker 1: police violence against African Americans in the wake of the 61 00:04:27,516 --> 00:04:32,476 Speaker 1: murder of George Floyd, there's an effort to say people 62 00:04:32,516 --> 00:04:35,756 Speaker 1: who are fighting for racial justice don't actually want justice, 63 00:04:36,196 --> 00:04:43,276 Speaker 1: they want revenge. Be afraid white people, be very very afraid. 64 00:04:43,876 --> 00:04:47,796 Speaker 1: They say they want justice, they don't. They want to 65 00:04:47,836 --> 00:04:52,316 Speaker 1: create a new racial hierarchy that flips the old one 66 00:04:52,356 --> 00:04:55,596 Speaker 1: on its head. And in fact, this is coming straight 67 00:04:55,636 --> 00:04:58,796 Speaker 1: out of the white supremacist movement and the alt right. 68 00:04:58,916 --> 00:05:01,596 Speaker 1: Now a sort of more sanitized version takes as an 69 00:05:01,676 --> 00:05:05,756 Speaker 1: article of faith that racial groups are inevitably in conflict 70 00:05:05,756 --> 00:05:08,876 Speaker 1: and that some racial group must be on top, that 71 00:05:08,876 --> 00:05:13,596 Speaker 1: they're will be a dominant racial group. And the question 72 00:05:13,796 --> 00:05:17,036 Speaker 1: is which racial group will be dominant? And so what 73 00:05:17,156 --> 00:05:20,036 Speaker 1: you here's people like Jade Vans and Josh Mondale using 74 00:05:20,076 --> 00:05:25,556 Speaker 1: that frame essentially to say when people of color talk 75 00:05:25,596 --> 00:05:29,476 Speaker 1: about racial justice, they're not actually interested in equality, they're 76 00:05:29,516 --> 00:05:32,636 Speaker 1: interested in being the new dominant group. Even hear it 77 00:05:32,756 --> 00:05:37,876 Speaker 1: in jd Vance saying Democrats want open borders to bring 78 00:05:37,876 --> 00:05:41,076 Speaker 1: an illegal aliens and to bring in democratic voters. This 79 00:05:41,196 --> 00:05:48,996 Speaker 1: is incredibly extreme to say, hey, this is the great replacement. Dangerous, 80 00:05:49,196 --> 00:05:55,036 Speaker 1: pathologically violent, inferior people are being brought across to replace 81 00:05:55,156 --> 00:06:00,556 Speaker 1: the silent, the hard working, the patriotic, the taxpayers, the responsible, 82 00:06:02,796 --> 00:06:07,236 Speaker 1: highly coded in terms of race. Now, the question is 83 00:06:07,756 --> 00:06:10,476 Speaker 1: what's the effect of response to that. And it's an 84 00:06:10,596 --> 00:06:17,996 Speaker 1: enormous challenge for progressives. If Vans and Mandel are saying, hey, 85 00:06:17,996 --> 00:06:22,436 Speaker 1: white people, they're calling you a racist, and progressives turn 86 00:06:22,476 --> 00:06:24,836 Speaker 1: around and say, hey, Jade Vans, you're a racist, and 87 00:06:24,836 --> 00:06:27,356 Speaker 1: so is anybody votes for you. Hey, Josh Mandel, you're 88 00:06:27,396 --> 00:06:31,436 Speaker 1: a racist. So is anybody who votes for you. Vans 89 00:06:31,436 --> 00:06:33,476 Speaker 1: and Mandel are just going to rub their hands in glee. 90 00:06:34,236 --> 00:06:36,756 Speaker 1: That's what they're hoping for. They want to be called 91 00:06:36,876 --> 00:06:42,756 Speaker 1: racist because it helps them say to their supporters, see, 92 00:06:43,596 --> 00:06:46,596 Speaker 1: I'm not racist, this is just common sense. Of Course 93 00:06:46,716 --> 00:06:51,236 Speaker 1: we should protect our borders. Of course crime is bad. 94 00:06:51,396 --> 00:06:53,316 Speaker 1: But as soon as I say those things, they call 95 00:06:53,356 --> 00:06:56,076 Speaker 1: me a racist, and by implication, they call you a racist. 96 00:06:56,156 --> 00:07:00,876 Speaker 1: Two and Trump actually said this and, responding to some 97 00:07:00,956 --> 00:07:04,076 Speaker 1: of Hillary Clinton's attacks, said she's not just calling me 98 00:07:04,116 --> 00:07:08,156 Speaker 1: a racist, she's calling you a racist too. That's the move. 99 00:07:08,356 --> 00:07:14,756 Speaker 1: That's the racial theater. But here's the important insight. That 100 00:07:14,916 --> 00:07:20,436 Speaker 1: all depends upon a conversation about racism that accepts a 101 00:07:20,556 --> 00:07:23,836 Speaker 1: basic frame of racism is just white people against people 102 00:07:23,836 --> 00:07:30,836 Speaker 1: of color. When you shift the frame, when you begin 103 00:07:30,916 --> 00:07:33,556 Speaker 1: to talk about the way in which race is a 104 00:07:33,596 --> 00:07:37,796 Speaker 1: class weapon used against all of us, then you can 105 00:07:37,876 --> 00:07:44,116 Speaker 1: respond to Vance by saying, Hey, where's your political support 106 00:07:44,156 --> 00:07:47,876 Speaker 1: coming from? Again? Isn't it coming from tech pro billionaires. 107 00:07:48,556 --> 00:07:53,676 Speaker 1: Aren't your policy proposals actually things like cutting social welfare 108 00:07:53,876 --> 00:07:57,716 Speaker 1: and cutting taxes for the very rich. Isn't it true 109 00:07:57,756 --> 00:08:03,596 Speaker 1: that you don't care about most average Ohioans. You really 110 00:08:03,636 --> 00:08:07,716 Speaker 1: care about winning power, And to win power, you are 111 00:08:07,756 --> 00:08:11,716 Speaker 1: willing to stoop these very low depths where you will 112 00:08:11,836 --> 00:08:15,916 Speaker 1: turn Americans against each other, push us to hate each other, 113 00:08:15,956 --> 00:08:20,356 Speaker 1: to fear each other, to fight each other, push racism 114 00:08:20,676 --> 00:08:24,956 Speaker 1: into public culture just so you can win power for 115 00:08:25,076 --> 00:08:29,516 Speaker 1: your dark money donors. That's despicable and same with Josh Mandel. 116 00:08:30,156 --> 00:08:33,676 Speaker 1: This isn't about taking care of the silent majority. This 117 00:08:33,796 --> 00:08:39,396 Speaker 1: is about duping average Americans into thinking that people from 118 00:08:39,476 --> 00:08:42,276 Speaker 1: different countries are the real threat in their lives when 119 00:08:42,276 --> 00:08:44,956 Speaker 1: it's the dark money donors who are rigging the system, 120 00:08:44,956 --> 00:08:50,036 Speaker 1: who are the real threat. It's a completely different political conversation. 121 00:08:51,436 --> 00:08:56,956 Speaker 1: That's the power of race class fusion politics. It allows 122 00:08:57,036 --> 00:09:00,716 Speaker 1: us to respond to Vans and to Mandel not by 123 00:09:00,836 --> 00:09:07,716 Speaker 1: calling them bigots, but by saying you're strategic racists. You're 124 00:09:07,796 --> 00:09:13,796 Speaker 1: running racism as a con and you're calling everybody. You're 125 00:09:13,836 --> 00:09:18,156 Speaker 1: calling people, whether they're black Ohioans or brown Ohioans or 126 00:09:18,156 --> 00:09:23,196 Speaker 1: white Ohioans, you are the sort of person who would 127 00:09:23,276 --> 00:09:30,556 Speaker 1: promote racial strife for your own profit. How low is that? 128 00:09:31,476 --> 00:09:34,836 Speaker 1: Where are the places or moments or the politicians who 129 00:09:34,876 --> 00:09:38,836 Speaker 1: communicate in this way where you see who really call 130 00:09:38,916 --> 00:09:43,076 Speaker 1: out the dog whistling as a con, where you see 131 00:09:43,476 --> 00:09:49,276 Speaker 1: race class fusion politics already at work and succeeding among politicians. 132 00:09:49,396 --> 00:09:53,836 Speaker 1: You could look at twenty eighteen in Minnesota. Minnesota had 133 00:09:54,036 --> 00:10:00,996 Speaker 1: a grassroots coalition of religious groups and labor groups who 134 00:10:01,156 --> 00:10:05,396 Speaker 1: very early on appreciated the power of a race class 135 00:10:05,436 --> 00:10:10,476 Speaker 1: fusion to deal with dog whistles a against immigrants and 136 00:10:10,516 --> 00:10:15,196 Speaker 1: African Americans in Minneapolis Saint Paul, but also to build 137 00:10:15,236 --> 00:10:19,076 Speaker 1: political power between those constituencies and rural Minnesota, which is 138 00:10:19,116 --> 00:10:25,916 Speaker 1: overwhelmingly white, they started using race class fusion. Really a 139 00:10:25,996 --> 00:10:30,596 Speaker 1: brilliant campaign that talked about Minnesota's being greater than fear, 140 00:10:31,276 --> 00:10:36,236 Speaker 1: and the brilliance there was one a very pithy statement, 141 00:10:36,396 --> 00:10:41,276 Speaker 1: right when politicians warn about dangerous immigrants or terrorists, that 142 00:10:41,396 --> 00:10:43,876 Speaker 1: they're pandering to fear, and we're greater than that. So 143 00:10:43,996 --> 00:10:46,756 Speaker 1: greater than fear really captured this idea like we're not 144 00:10:46,756 --> 00:10:49,436 Speaker 1: going to be fearful of each other. We are onto 145 00:10:49,436 --> 00:10:52,476 Speaker 1: the Khan by these politicians. That was one. The other 146 00:10:52,516 --> 00:10:56,876 Speaker 1: thing that was so clever about this was Greater Minnesota 147 00:10:57,076 --> 00:11:01,436 Speaker 1: was the phrase people used in Minnesota to distinguish rural 148 00:11:01,476 --> 00:11:05,996 Speaker 1: Minnesota from the cities, and so it was really a 149 00:11:06,036 --> 00:11:12,756 Speaker 1: way of saying this race class fusion, this is designed 150 00:11:12,916 --> 00:11:18,636 Speaker 1: to create a multiracial majority that includes white people. So 151 00:11:18,916 --> 00:11:22,796 Speaker 1: often when Democrats or progressives talk about a multiracial movement, 152 00:11:23,476 --> 00:11:26,116 Speaker 1: it's as if they mean a multiracial movement of communities 153 00:11:26,156 --> 00:11:30,756 Speaker 1: of color. And it's very important to remind white people 154 00:11:31,436 --> 00:11:34,476 Speaker 1: you're part of a multiracial society. You can be part 155 00:11:34,476 --> 00:11:39,196 Speaker 1: of a multiracial majority, and indeed, we will only have 156 00:11:39,596 --> 00:11:44,796 Speaker 1: an empowered multiracial majority when whites see themselves as equal 157 00:11:45,236 --> 00:11:50,276 Speaker 1: and welcome members of that multiracial movement. So that's one 158 00:11:50,316 --> 00:11:53,796 Speaker 1: place I think the other places you can see it. Increasingly, 159 00:11:53,996 --> 00:12:01,596 Speaker 1: labor unions like SCIU have moved to this intentional effort 160 00:12:01,636 --> 00:12:08,756 Speaker 1: to create multiracial worker solidarity by emphasizing to workers that 161 00:12:09,156 --> 00:12:12,596 Speaker 1: racism is a weapon of division used by bosses. So 162 00:12:12,756 --> 00:12:15,076 Speaker 1: one thing that labor has historically done is it says 163 00:12:15,916 --> 00:12:20,036 Speaker 1: racism is a weapon of the bosses. Therefore, let's focus 164 00:12:20,076 --> 00:12:23,356 Speaker 1: only on our shared class interests. Race class is doing 165 00:12:23,396 --> 00:12:27,356 Speaker 1: something different. It's saying racism is a weapon of the bosses. Therefore, 166 00:12:27,916 --> 00:12:32,156 Speaker 1: let's focus on racism and building cross racial solidarity so 167 00:12:32,356 --> 00:12:36,676 Speaker 1: that we can achieve our economic and racial justice interests. 168 00:12:37,076 --> 00:12:38,836 Speaker 1: One question I have is that you know, we have 169 00:12:38,916 --> 00:12:41,636 Speaker 1: been building up to this moment for over fifty years, 170 00:12:42,156 --> 00:12:47,596 Speaker 1: and now we're at a precipice of democracy, right we 171 00:12:47,676 --> 00:12:51,836 Speaker 1: are in danger of losing democracy itself. And it feels 172 00:12:51,836 --> 00:12:55,756 Speaker 1: as though, you know, the clock is really ticking down 173 00:12:55,836 --> 00:12:59,236 Speaker 1: pretty fast, and what you're saying is something that we 174 00:12:59,276 --> 00:13:01,556 Speaker 1: can use right now, but I feel like it's going 175 00:13:01,596 --> 00:13:05,636 Speaker 1: to take time. Nonetheless, can we speed this up, especially 176 00:13:05,676 --> 00:13:08,836 Speaker 1: in light of the twenty two minute term elections. I 177 00:13:09,116 --> 00:13:14,716 Speaker 1: think you're right that there's an immediate crisis looming the 178 00:13:14,796 --> 00:13:17,796 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two elections than the twenty twenty four elections. 179 00:13:18,636 --> 00:13:22,956 Speaker 1: I think we are on a precipice and we risk 180 00:13:24,196 --> 00:13:30,356 Speaker 1: losing democracy and collapsing into an authoritarianism from which we 181 00:13:30,436 --> 00:13:36,756 Speaker 1: might not recover for decades. In some ways, politicians, political consultants, 182 00:13:36,756 --> 00:13:43,516 Speaker 1: that whole consulting class, they're extremely cautious. They want to 183 00:13:43,516 --> 00:13:46,276 Speaker 1: get to fifty percent plus one. They want to do 184 00:13:46,476 --> 00:13:51,356 Speaker 1: whatever is safest that will get them there. That means 185 00:13:51,436 --> 00:13:55,036 Speaker 1: that they're going to do the same thing they've been 186 00:13:55,156 --> 00:14:01,236 Speaker 1: doing for the last fifty years. But that's insanity. We 187 00:14:01,316 --> 00:14:04,436 Speaker 1: are not in a steady state. Things are getting worse, 188 00:14:04,476 --> 00:14:08,076 Speaker 1: and they've gotten much much worse, very rapidly. And if 189 00:14:08,636 --> 00:14:12,036 Speaker 1: Democrats keep responding by saying, well, we'll do what we've 190 00:14:12,036 --> 00:14:15,556 Speaker 1: done for the last fifty years, we are going to 191 00:14:15,636 --> 00:14:19,276 Speaker 1: go off of that cliff. What's going to get them 192 00:14:19,636 --> 00:14:23,436 Speaker 1: to change. It's going to be their constituents. It's going 193 00:14:23,476 --> 00:14:28,556 Speaker 1: to be people organizing house parties and making calls and 194 00:14:29,076 --> 00:14:32,836 Speaker 1: making demands and organizing discussion groups. It's going to have 195 00:14:32,956 --> 00:14:36,076 Speaker 1: to come from people listening to this now, it's going 196 00:14:36,116 --> 00:14:38,956 Speaker 1: to have to come from folks who love democracy, who 197 00:14:40,076 --> 00:14:43,596 Speaker 1: love society, who look at their neighbors and right to 198 00:14:43,676 --> 00:14:46,036 Speaker 1: have a sense of like, I'm connected to these folks. 199 00:14:46,556 --> 00:14:50,596 Speaker 1: I want to make sure I live in a society 200 00:14:50,636 --> 00:14:53,756 Speaker 1: in which we respect each other, and people have dignity, 201 00:14:53,796 --> 00:14:55,756 Speaker 1: and we trust each other, and we take care of 202 00:14:55,756 --> 00:15:00,716 Speaker 1: each other, and we try and protect each other, especially 203 00:15:00,836 --> 00:15:06,796 Speaker 1: from the reactionary, powerful few who cynically try and turn 204 00:15:06,876 --> 00:15:09,396 Speaker 1: us against each other. And we have to talk about 205 00:15:09,396 --> 00:15:12,236 Speaker 1: the way in which division has been weaponized against us. 206 00:15:12,276 --> 00:15:15,996 Speaker 1: We have to talk about the class war that we 207 00:15:16,156 --> 00:15:20,276 Speaker 1: have been losing for decades. And we're going to insist 208 00:15:20,396 --> 00:15:23,396 Speaker 1: that we build power with our neighbors, and that we 209 00:15:23,516 --> 00:15:27,116 Speaker 1: go and grab our political representatives by the lapels and 210 00:15:27,236 --> 00:15:30,396 Speaker 1: say you need to talk about this too. You need 211 00:15:30,476 --> 00:15:34,716 Speaker 1: to help us build power with each other so that 212 00:15:34,876 --> 00:15:37,676 Speaker 1: government actually begins to work for the vast majority of 213 00:15:37,756 --> 00:15:41,276 Speaker 1: Americans and not simply for the ultra rich.