1 00:00:00,680 --> 00:00:03,199 Speaker 1: Comparison is the thief of joy. We sit at home 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: by ourselves, scrolling thinking I hate my life. 3 00:00:07,360 --> 00:00:10,560 Speaker 2: Simon Senek's visionary take on purpose made his ted dot 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 2: a global phenomenon with over sixty million views. 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 3: So I mean you've impacted all of our lives, and 6 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 3: you've impacted millions of people's lives. 7 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,919 Speaker 2: Now one of the most inspiring voices on leadership and purpose, 8 00:00:23,239 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: an author of three New York Times bestsellers, joins us 9 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 2: for his most personal conversation yet. 10 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: My sister was engaged to be married, and two weeks 11 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 1: before her wedding, her fiance was tragically killed right in 12 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: front of her. 13 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 2: He opens up about loss and learning and takes us 14 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: inside why we're more lonely than ever and what it 15 00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 2: takes to change that. 16 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 1: I think we take friends for granted, you go for 17 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: a couple's therapy, but nobody goes for friends therapy when 18 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:49,920 Speaker 1: your friendships are in trouble. 19 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 2: He shows us what most people get wrong about connecting 20 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: in a divided world. 21 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: To allow someone to feel her doesn't mean you have 22 00:00:56,720 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 1: to agree with. 23 00:00:57,160 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 2: Him, and if it triggers you join host Martin Luther 24 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 2: King the Third, Andrea Waters King, Mark Kilberger and Craig 25 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 2: Hilberger for an unflingingly honest look at how we build 26 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 2: trust and navigate differences, especially in a culture that thrives 27 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:11,440 Speaker 2: on division. 28 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 1: If you live in the United States, you have a 29 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 1: needle in your arm and I think, I said, how 30 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: can you be so stupid? And she stops in her tracks. 31 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 4: And say, today we're doing things a little bit differently 32 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 4: on My Legacy Podcast. Earlier this year, we released our 33 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 4: book What Is My Legacy, realizing a new dream of connection, love, 34 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 4: and fulfillment. It redefines legacy not as something that you 35 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 4: leave behind, but something you live every day through your actions, connections, 36 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:41,679 Speaker 4: and the impact you create. In the book, all of 37 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 4: us as hosts share deeply personal stories alongside powerful contributors 38 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:49,639 Speaker 4: from incredible voices like Milinda French Gates, Yara Shihidi, Billy Porter, 39 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 4: Martin Sheen, and Dan Rather. One theme readers loved was 40 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:57,600 Speaker 4: about deepening connection with yourself, others, and the world, So 41 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 4: we wanted to bring in one of the book's contributors 42 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 4: to dive in. Simon Sinek. You know him from his 43 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 4: New York Times best selling books. He's inspired millions with 44 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 4: his ideas on leadership, connection, relationship, and of course purpose. 45 00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 4: He is a dear friend of the four of ours. 46 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:15,240 Speaker 4: So Simon, welcome to my Legs and podcast. 47 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. 48 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,720 Speaker 5: One of the themes from the book is about strengthening 49 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 5: connections with yourself with others the world. I know how 50 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 5: much you adore your. 51 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 2: Niece and a nephew. 52 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 5: Uh so, but what do you see as the main 53 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 5: obstacle to people finding true connection. 54 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 1: I think there's many things that get in the way 55 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:41,239 Speaker 1: of us forming true connection. One is, uh I think 56 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: we take friends for granted. You know, everybody knows you 57 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: have to work hard in marriage, like marriage takes work. 58 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:55,360 Speaker 1: Everybody knows that. And when marriages have have trouble, you 59 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: get help. You go, you go for therapy, you go 60 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: for couples therapy, but nobody for friends therapy when your 61 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 1: friendships are in trouble. I love that. You know, nobody 62 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 1: thinks that friendships take work. We sort of take them 63 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: for granted. Like if you guys have a massive fight, 64 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: you don't default to divorce. We're in friendships. You have 65 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:15,959 Speaker 1: a massive fight, and people like I don't think I 66 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 1: can do this friendship anymore. We're sort of much more 67 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: disposable about friendships for some reason. I don't know why. 68 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: Maybe there's no contract. Maybe that's the reason. And if 69 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,920 Speaker 1: you ask the best couples, like the couples that we 70 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 1: look at and admire and be like, I want a 71 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: marriage like theirs, And if you ask them, what's your secret, 72 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: they all say the same thing. It's hard work, and 73 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: we do the work. And I don't know anybody in 74 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: friendship who says friendship is hard work, and we do 75 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: the work. And so I think one of the reasons 76 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: we have so much disconnection in the world is we 77 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,000 Speaker 1: actually are not very good at the skill of being 78 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 1: a friend. You know, would you cancel on a friend 79 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: for a meeting? Would you cancel in a meeting for 80 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: a friend? Oh, but my friends would understand. You don't 81 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: think the people in the meeting would understand. And that's 82 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: the problem. I think we deprioritize friends almost always, quote 83 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: unquote because the unders Yes we can blame social media, 84 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 1: it absolutely is a contributing factor. Yes we can blame 85 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: post lockdown world, you know, absolutely a factor. But I 86 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: think deeper than all of those things is we lack 87 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: the skills to be a friend. 88 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 4: It's interesting because I reflect on this time and this 89 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 4: is the beautiful part of being able to have a 90 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 4: conversation with someone who we spent so much time with. 91 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 4: And there was one of these moving moments when we 92 00:04:21,839 --> 00:04:25,000 Speaker 4: were talking as a group and you talked about friends 93 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 4: that politically you very much disagreed with. Oh the story 94 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 4: I'm sharing here. Yeah, yeah, And you had a choice 95 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 4: there because you could have acted not exactly out of 96 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 4: respect and kind of called her out. 97 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: I think it was her. 98 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 4: It was in that moment and you saw how to 99 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:38,840 Speaker 4: build bridges and stuff. 100 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 5: Yeah. 101 00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:41,560 Speaker 1: A friend of mine, she and I see the world 102 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: very differently. She's a conspiracy theorist and I view the 103 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: world differently. And she came to visit me in New 104 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 1: York and we were going for a long walk and 105 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 1: she said something that I disagreed with politically or worldviewee, 106 00:04:57,720 --> 00:05:01,680 Speaker 1: and I thought definitely, And I think I said, how 107 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,359 Speaker 1: can you be so stupid? And she stops in her 108 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,279 Speaker 1: tracks and says, you just called your friend stupid. And 109 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: I realized how judgmental it was to just because I 110 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: disagree with someone's worldview that I think they're dumb, Because 111 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: on both sides of the political aal both sides think 112 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:21,480 Speaker 1: the other are the sheeple, you know. And so we 113 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,400 Speaker 1: were both confronted with the situation of somebody, a friend 114 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:26,560 Speaker 1: who we both care about and love, which is each other. 115 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: Now what? And we could have abandoned the friendship. We 116 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:32,920 Speaker 1: could have just said, this is not going to work. 117 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: I don't see the world the way you see it. 118 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 1: But we chose instead to figure out how to talk 119 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: and how to communicate. And we didn't do what you know, 120 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: is usually suggested for Thanksgiving dinners, which is, you know, 121 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:45,160 Speaker 1: just don't bring it up. 122 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 2: You know. 123 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,479 Speaker 1: We brought it all up, and we learned how to 124 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 1: listen to each other without judgment, but with curiosity. We 125 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 1: learned how to allow the other person to say what 126 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: they needed to say to the point where you could 127 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: find something that you did agree with or that was 128 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: based on truth, and at the moment of affirmation we 129 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: could build upon that. We're actually very open to each 130 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 1: other's points of view. And to this day, I just 131 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: talked to her last week. I absolutely adore and love her, 132 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: and she feels the same about me. And we talk 133 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: about this all the time. We talk about that we're different, 134 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,520 Speaker 1: We talk about that our friendship as a model for 135 00:06:17,560 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: how the world could work. And we talk about how 136 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: we don't agree on everything and we see the world differently, 137 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, we share the 138 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: same values. At the end of the day, we offer 139 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,680 Speaker 1: each other a safe space to be our true selves. 140 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 1: At the end of the day, we found ways to 141 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: communicate and put our judgments aside and embrace curiosity. And 142 00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: because of that friendship, I am a better human being. 143 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 1: And I think people who avoid tension simply because it's difficult, 144 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: I don't think they're taking the opportunity to grow as 145 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,200 Speaker 1: a person. That doesn't mean that that person has to 146 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: be your friend. I'm not suggesting that at all, But 147 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: I am suggesting that the challenge to sit in discomfort 148 00:06:57,400 --> 00:06:59,760 Speaker 1: with someone where you feel triggered, or you want to 149 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:01,560 Speaker 1: be defensive but you want to fight back, or you 150 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 1: want to be right and you want to prove them wrong, 151 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,479 Speaker 1: are not the instincts for any kind of friendship or relationship. 152 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: And remember, even beyond the friendships that we have, that 153 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: is how you find peace. You cannot make peace with 154 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: your friends. You can only make peace. 155 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 3: With your enemies. 156 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: And so if you can't learn to listen to someone 157 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 1: who you consider an enemy or on the polar opposite 158 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: of how you see the world, then peace is non existent. 159 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:28,400 Speaker 1: And when I talk about world peace, I don't I'm 160 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: not so foolhardy to believe that we can live in 161 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: a world without conflict. That's nonsense, that doesn't exist. When 162 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: I talk about world peace, I imagine a world in 163 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: which we can resolve all conflict peacefully. You're going to 164 00:07:39,640 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: have conflict, but can you resolve that conflict peacefully? And 165 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 1: change starts at home? We can't criticize our politicians and 166 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,960 Speaker 1: our governments for their inability to find peace across an 167 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: aisle if we're incapable of having a conversation with somebody 168 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: we disagree with. 169 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 4: Because I think for listeners and watchers or those who 170 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 4: are following this, they like everyone's got their friend who 171 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 4: politically they have the different views of or maybe on 172 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 4: you know, faith, politics, whatever it happens to be. That 173 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 4: often pulls us apart. But you found a little bit 174 00:08:07,160 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 4: of the roadmap how to build. 175 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: So the mistake that we make when we talk to 176 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,360 Speaker 1: someone with whom we see the world in a diametrically 177 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: opposed way is we interrupt, We attempt to correct facts, 178 00:08:24,760 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: We are sometimes triggered by what they say. We get 179 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 1: defensive and we tend to make the argument for our 180 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 1: case before they've even finished making the argument for theirs. 181 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 1: And so one of the challenges. And it is a skill. 182 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: It's just a learnable, practicable skill, you know. That's that's 183 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 1: all it is is to allow someone to feel heard. Right, 184 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: to allow someone to feel heard doesn't mean you have 185 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: to agree with them, doesn't mean you have to see 186 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: the world the way they see it. Your only job 187 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 1: is to listen to their story. The story doesn't have 188 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: to be true. It's their story, and your job is 189 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: to listen to their story. And if it triggers you, 190 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,440 Speaker 1: you put that aside and you wait. You'll have your turn. 191 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: Don't worry. And remember there's a big difference between listening 192 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:19,320 Speaker 1: and waiting for your turn to speak. Listening is listening 193 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: for meaning. Listening is listening to the point where they 194 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:25,200 Speaker 1: feel heard, not that you think you heard the words. 195 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,679 Speaker 1: And this is what my friend and I figured out 196 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:30,720 Speaker 1: how to do, which is one of us went first 197 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: and said, tell me what you think, and the other 198 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: one started talking, and all the other did was tell 199 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 1: me more, go on, that's interesting. I don't understand. Can 200 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: you say it differently and just allow them to get 201 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:50,319 Speaker 1: it all out and invariably we will always find something 202 00:09:50,480 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: we agree on always and what at that point one 203 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: of us can say that's true or I completely agree. 204 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 1: The other person is now seen, The other person feels 205 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: hurt in that moment. The other person now becomes open 206 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 1: to your point of view, even if your point of 207 00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:10,319 Speaker 1: view is different, simply because you showed them the respect 208 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: to feel heard. The most extreme version of this, and 209 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: it's fascinating to watch, is a documentary called White Right 210 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,599 Speaker 1: Meeting the Enemy by Dia Khan. Dia is a Muslim 211 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: woman who lives in the UK and she made some 212 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: comments on the BBC about multicultural society, and some of 213 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: her comments went viral in the white supremacist world. She 214 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: was trolled so badly by the white supremacists that the 215 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: police actually advised her to stay away from open windows. 216 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: That's how bad it got. The way that she responded 217 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: was to move to the United States and get to 218 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: know white supremacists. She sought them out, and she didn't 219 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: seek them out to disagree with them, vilify or yell 220 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: at them. She sought them out to listen to them. 221 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: She tells stories of when she was younger, how she, 222 00:10:56,520 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: as a young girl living in Scandinavia, would go to 223 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: counter protests, you know, arians, counter protests white supremacists, and 224 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: she would spit on these white supremacists and when they 225 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:10,560 Speaker 1: would she'd leave with her friends high five and they 226 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: all felt self righteous that they did good. And at 227 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: the end of the day she realized she moved the needle. 228 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: The needle zero zero. She just made herself feel good. 229 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:20,319 Speaker 5: That was it. 230 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: And so she took a very different approach and she 231 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:25,480 Speaker 1: did something that for most of us, just hearing about 232 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 1: it sounds sort of just anathema to what we believe, 233 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 1: which is she offered them a safe space to feel heard. Now, 234 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: we will say things like they don't deserve us, but 235 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: who's going to go first, because they're definitely not giving 236 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 1: her a safe space to feel heard. So she offered 237 00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: them a safe space to feel heard. She didn't agree 238 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: with them, but she listened, and she showed up with 239 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: incredible curiosity, and over the course of time, they started 240 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: to view her as a friend, and they started to 241 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 1: trust her, and something strange started happen, which is they 242 00:12:01,360 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 1: could no longer reconcile their racist views of the world 243 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 1: with the fact that they viewed this Muslim woman as 244 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: their friend. And so one by one they started dropping 245 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 1: out of the movement. It's a slower it's a slower 246 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: process than what I think we hope, which to scream 247 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 1: and yell and then everything changes, which by the way, 248 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: has never ever ever worked. But if she can listen 249 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,200 Speaker 1: to a white supremacist, we can listen to each other. 250 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 1: And it's just an extreme version. And I called it 251 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: extreme listening of what allowing someone to empty their bucket 252 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: looks like. It takes practice. It takes a lot of practice. 253 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: And go far away from white supremacists, go far away 254 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:46,840 Speaker 1: from political adversaries, and go back home. Go back to 255 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: your relationships with your spouse, with your friends, with your siblings, 256 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: where we disagree all the time, where we defend ourselves, 257 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,720 Speaker 1: where somebody brings emotions and we respond with facts, like 258 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 1: six times you did this to me last week. I'm like, well, 259 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: I only did it four times, it doesn't matter how 260 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: many times. Well, if you want to have a fight 261 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,680 Speaker 1: with me, get your facts right. No, don't do that. 262 00:13:08,679 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: That doesn't work. And so I think these skills, the 263 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: skill of active listening, though invaluable in the creation of peace, 264 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,880 Speaker 1: is I think an absolute essential on a daily basis 265 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,000 Speaker 1: for functional relationship. 266 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 2: I love that coming up Simon gets personal and shares 267 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 2: what it was like walking alongside his sister through unimaginable 268 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 2: tragedy and how that moment changed the way he shows 269 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: up for everyone he loves. Don't forget to share this 270 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,480 Speaker 2: with anyone learning how to show up and with those 271 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 2: who already do. 272 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 4: Now back to my legacy. 273 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 5: Obviously, you've inspired millions about finding their why. I have 274 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 5: a very dear friend speaking of friends, and she always, 275 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 5: you know, tells me her name is Julie Andrea. You 276 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 5: know what is your why? If I'm getting ready to 277 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 5: do a speech, I am so turned on when I 278 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 5: feel inspired, filled with spirit and being able to share 279 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 5: that so like no, that's my why. Another one of 280 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 5: my wives is the Beloved Community, which you know, people 281 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,199 Speaker 5: think it's a place of utopia. It's not. It truly 282 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,599 Speaker 5: is just a society at peace with itself, and we 283 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 5: start that piece of being at peace with yourself. I 284 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 5: am curious for someone struggling to align their daily habits 285 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,080 Speaker 5: with their long term purpose. What would be your advice to. 286 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: Them, well, Number one, I think the concept of long 287 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,360 Speaker 1: term purpose or an infinite purpose, that it starts there. 288 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:45,840 Speaker 1: I think most people confuse long term in years versus lifelong. 289 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:49,640 Speaker 1: You know, if you ask some people their long term purpose, 290 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: you know, you hear things like, you know, to become 291 00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:54,160 Speaker 1: a mom, you know, to get a million dollars, you know, 292 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: to become a CEO, to start a business. Those are 293 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: goals achievable. May not be easy, and you may fail, 294 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: but eminently achievable. True purpose lives beyond our lifetime, and 295 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: you don't feel like you're in a game where there's 296 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: a beginning, middle, and end, but you feel like you're 297 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: a part of a continuum. You know. One of the 298 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,120 Speaker 1: things the US Marine Corps does is they instill the 299 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 1: history of the Marine Corps in their marines. They have 300 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 1: to learn the dates of important battles, they have to 301 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: learn the names of their heroes, they have to learn 302 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: the failures and the losses. And the reason they do 303 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: this is because they want the marines to understand that 304 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,560 Speaker 1: their job doesn't start today, it was started many many 305 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: years before them, and they cannot let the sacrifices of 306 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: those who came before them go in vain. They have 307 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:49,600 Speaker 1: a responsibility to uphold and protect the sacrifices of the 308 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: marines who preceded them and prepare the world for those 309 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 1: that will follow them. And there's data that shows that 310 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 1: when you see yourself not at the beginning, but in 311 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 1: the middle as responsible for came before and responsible for 312 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: what comes after, you actually make better decisions. You know, 313 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: they've showed this with kids. Kids who know some about 314 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: their own family history as little as like knowing the 315 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: history of their grandparents, will actually make better decisions because 316 00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 1: they don't see the world as starting with them. They 317 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: are given responsibility to protect something. So I think when 318 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 1: you have long term vision, you don't see it as 319 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: a story. It's not your story. It's a story that 320 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,000 Speaker 1: you're a part of. And the other thing that I 321 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 1: think I learned this lesson the hard way, and I 322 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: think some people struggle with this lesson at every age 323 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: is to ask for help. I think we fear asking 324 00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:44,520 Speaker 1: for help, We fear admitting we don't know. We believe 325 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: falsely that it undermines our credibility or that we're not 326 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: worthier action able to do the things that we talk 327 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: about doing. If we say I don't know, nothing could 328 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: be further from the truth, And turns out when I 329 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: learned the hard way, because I got back and beaten 330 00:17:00,720 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 1: before you know, I had to ask for help because 331 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:08,760 Speaker 1: I couldn't do it myself. I was surrounded by people 332 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,120 Speaker 1: who wanted to help me, but they never offered because 333 00:17:11,119 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 1: they didn't think I needed it because I was lying, hiding, 334 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: and faking every day. And it turns out the minute 335 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: I said I don't know, my credibility went up because 336 00:17:18,440 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 1: everybody knows you don't know everything, so if you admit it, 337 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: they think you're more trustworthy. So I think when you 338 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: have a vision of what you'd like to be a 339 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,119 Speaker 1: part of, which is different of what I'd like to achieve. 340 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: If you have a vision of what you'd like to 341 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: be a part of, start saying to people, this is 342 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:39,000 Speaker 1: what I believe, and I don't know how to do it. 343 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,359 Speaker 1: This is what I believe, and I need help. This 344 00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 1: is what I believe, and I don't even know where 345 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,600 Speaker 1: to start. Because what ends up happening is people who 346 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,320 Speaker 1: believe what you believe will show up. People who believe 347 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: what you believe will start introducing you to people who 348 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: share that same vision and the solutions become pretty self 349 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:54,679 Speaker 1: evident pretty quickly. 350 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 3: You do show up for people, and that's something that 351 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 3: we love about you. But you also showed up for 352 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 3: your sister Sarah at a really important time, and we 353 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 3: were wondering if you could potentially share that when she 354 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 3: unfortunately lost her fiance near the wedding date and you 355 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,959 Speaker 3: were there at a really critical juncture for her, and 356 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 3: you talk to us about that. 357 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: That is true. My sister was engaged to be married 358 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: many years ago, and two weeks before her wedding, her 359 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:29,400 Speaker 1: fiance was tragically killed right in front of her. And 360 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: it was awful, and it was on the front page 361 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: of all the newspapers the next day in New York 362 00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: because it was so awful, and uh, you know, families 363 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 1: do what families do, which is they you got your 364 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: kick into gear, and in this horrible tragedy, it does 365 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:55,360 Speaker 1: actually make you closer. But the courage was not mine. 366 00:18:55,359 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: In the courage was hers. I kind of imagine what 367 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:06,640 Speaker 1: it felt like. I could only hold space for the feelings. 368 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: And she's the most remarkable person I know, because she 369 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: proved that you can move forwards from anything. 370 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 6: You know. 371 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 1: She still has a picture of her fiance in her 372 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:25,280 Speaker 1: in her house, and she has a husband and she's 373 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: got two magical kids and she's happily married and great 374 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: mom and like, no matter what tragedies we face, like 375 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: you can get through it. You can't get through it alone. 376 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:39,920 Speaker 1: You cannot get through it alone, but you can't get 377 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,679 Speaker 1: through it. And you know, it's such an extreme example 378 00:19:44,119 --> 00:19:47,320 Speaker 1: of making it through something. You know, we talk a 379 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: lot about post traumatic stress, we very rarely talk about 380 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: postramatic growth. And tragedy can can destroy you, but tragedy 381 00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:03,080 Speaker 1: can can help you be a even greater version that 382 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: you could have been without it. And I think the 383 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: difference is the support structure. I think the difference is 384 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:14,200 Speaker 1: entirely the support structure, but the courage is hers. And 385 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: you know, no matter what happens in my life that 386 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: sets me back on my back foot, you know, it 387 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: pales in comparison to what she had to get through. 388 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:23,879 Speaker 1: But no, no, she deserves all the credit. 389 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 3: I love the post dramatic growth concept. I've never quite 390 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 3: heard it that way. It's extremely powerful. I think for 391 00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 3: me and our listeners that's a very tangible takeaway. 392 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: And it's a real thing. I mean, it is written 393 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: about it's not my concept. It is a thing, and 394 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: there are people that thrive after stragedy. Doesn't mean it 395 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 1: doesn't hurt, doesn't mean they don't carry baggage. It doesn't 396 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: mean that there isn't pain. It doesn't mean that if 397 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 1: they think about it, it won't bring them to tears. It'll 398 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: do all those things. It doesn't mean we ignore it 399 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 1: or block it out, and it doesn't mean we suppress. 400 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 1: But the way she puts it is, you know, she 401 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: spent many years high from it, and then she just 402 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: realized it's just part of my story. Like if I 403 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,359 Speaker 1: tell my story, it's part of my story, and I 404 00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 1: guess it's part of mine too. 405 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:12,480 Speaker 6: Someone how has her strength inspired the way you think 406 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 6: about resilience and connection. 407 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,760 Speaker 1: She and I have a pretty amazing relationship and when 408 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 1: we talk a thousand times a day. I live in 409 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: Los Angeles to be near them, to be near that family. Yeah, 410 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: I mean, she's a constant inspiration to me. She's the 411 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,200 Speaker 1: most remarkable person you'll ever meet. 412 00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 6: Let's say, maybe everyone has capacity to be resilient, maybe 413 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 6: they don't always know that, But can you have resilience 414 00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 6: without connection? 415 00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 1: I don't think so. I look we're social animals, and 416 00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 1: we know that solitary confinement is a form of torture. 417 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: And whether it's imposed by you know, a political system 418 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: or a or a penal system, or it's self imposed. 419 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: When we hide from truth and we keep secrets about 420 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 1: our feelings, we're putting ourselves in prisons. We're self imposing 421 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 1: solitary confinement. And we know what happens when you put 422 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: someone in solitary confinement. They'll go crazy and they will 423 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: self destruct. And I think the only way to get 424 00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,199 Speaker 1: through anything hard is with others. And it goes right 425 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: back to where we started, which is do we have 426 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: the skills? And I think most people don't even know 427 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 1: how to help a friend when they're in need. You know, 428 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 1: if somebody calls you and say, if somebody has the 429 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: courage to say I'm struggling, most of us go into 430 00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 1: fix it mode. And that is incorrect. People are pretty smart, 431 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: even in pain. They know when they want to be 432 00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:49,959 Speaker 1: fixed and when they want your advice, and they know 433 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,359 Speaker 1: when they just need you to sit in the mud 434 00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,560 Speaker 1: with them. And most of us are more comfortable trying 435 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: to fix things because we're rational. We're not the ones depressed. 436 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: This is how we would so the problem in our 437 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: state of mind now, But that's not the state of 438 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: the mind of our friend. And most of us do 439 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,480 Speaker 1: not have the skill set to just get in the 440 00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 1: mud with somebody. Like if your friend's depressed, do you 441 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 1: try and give them advice how they can get out 442 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 1: of their depression? Or do you'd go to their house, 443 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,239 Speaker 1: get in their bed and eat ice cream with them 444 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: all day with them and just be depressed with them. 445 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: Getting in the mud with someone is not fun, That's 446 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,119 Speaker 1: why we don't do it. It is not enjoyable, but 447 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: you do it. And again when most of us are 448 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 1: pretty attuned, where if you sit in mud with someone 449 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,920 Speaker 1: and just hold space and allow them to be depressed 450 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,480 Speaker 1: or sad or angry or whatever feeling they're having, at 451 00:23:36,520 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 1: some point they're going to look at you and go, 452 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: I think I'm ready now, and then you can try 453 00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: and pull them out and offer them the advice. I 454 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 1: remember I called a friend. I was in a bad place, 455 00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:48,040 Speaker 1: and I called her and I said, can I just 456 00:23:48,080 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 1: talk to him in a bad place? And I started 457 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:52,479 Speaker 1: talking and she went in to fix it mode, and 458 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:57,159 Speaker 1: I remember feeling worse, feeling angry, you know, because I 459 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 1: wasn't feeling heard, and again I literally said, can you 460 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: stop trying to fix me and just shut up and listen. 461 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 1: That's all I need from you right now is just 462 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 1: let me get it out of like. I don't want 463 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: you to fix me. Just let me tell you and 464 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:13,199 Speaker 1: just listen. That's all I need, and so you can 465 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: even change it. And she goes, I hear you, I 466 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: hear I'm sorry. I'm sorry, and then she started listening 467 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: and I felt better. And so I think we need 468 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: to learn those skills. We need to learn those skills. 469 00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 1: But I do not believe that you can do these 470 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 1: things by yourself. It's this thing called life is just 471 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:31,959 Speaker 1: too difficult for any one of us to do it 472 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 1: by ourselves. Not a single one of us has the strength, 473 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,000 Speaker 1: or the courage, or the wherewithal all the perspective to 474 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: do this thing called life alone. Life is a team sport. 475 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: This is why we organically and naturally make friends and 476 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,200 Speaker 1: want friends. This is why when we don't have friends 477 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 1: we feel lonely. This is why we envy people with relationships. 478 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:58,959 Speaker 1: It's because those things all contribute to this thing called life. Look, remember, 479 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,440 Speaker 1: suicide is an active It's an act of loneliness. That's 480 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: what it is, you know. It's a it's a it's 481 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: a it's a it's an attempt to take control of 482 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: a situation that feels bad. Nobody nobody dies by suicide 483 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,280 Speaker 1: because they're hungry. They day by suicide because they're lonely. 484 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 2: There's more ahead with Simon Sinek right after the break. 485 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 2: If this conversation is resonating, we'd love for you to 486 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:24,920 Speaker 2: subscribe to the show and maybe share it with someone 487 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,199 Speaker 2: who needs to feel a little less alone today. 488 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:30,800 Speaker 4: Now back to my legacy. 489 00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,240 Speaker 5: One of the things that I have to be vulnerable 490 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 5: and transparent that I'm working on, and I see it 491 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 5: more with with parenting, with friends sometimes or even with 492 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 5: my husband, is is because I love so big you, 493 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 5: I want to go in to fix it. 494 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:56,240 Speaker 6: You know. 495 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 5: So if my daughter comes home and she's having a 496 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 5: she's had or just really bad day, and I want 497 00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 5: to say, hey, Okay, if you do ten things of 498 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 5: gratitude right now or go jump on the rebounder, you 499 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 5: can change the state. And and it's not too but 500 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,800 Speaker 5: one thing I've and this has been my mantra, is 501 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 5: okay Andrea lecture. 502 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: Or love. 503 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 5: That's good Yolanda, you know it's okay, or to let 504 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,000 Speaker 5: her know it's okay, or to let Martin know it's okay, 505 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,880 Speaker 5: and just to to listen and you know, just say, 506 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 5: you know, just give them that that love. And I'm 507 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,560 Speaker 5: so I'm constantly now playing in my mind lecture a love, 508 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 5: lecture a love. And and then there are times though, 509 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 5: there are times when they they that it's appropriate to 510 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 5: give it. When I say lecture, well, my husband would 511 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 5: say it's a lecture, but yeah, it's like yeah, but 512 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:47,160 Speaker 5: it is like okay, you. 513 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: Know, you can imagine, right, is this thing on? 514 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:56,200 Speaker 5: So so that's that's one thing that I'm that I'm 515 00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,679 Speaker 5: working so particularly with a teenager and and with a husband. 516 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,680 Speaker 5: We work together and with so many people that I love. Particularly, 517 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 5: I think there's so many maybe of our listeners, certainly 518 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,119 Speaker 5: the people that are you know, not purchasing your books 519 00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 5: and listening to Simon that you know, they are like 520 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,400 Speaker 5: the let's get it, let's get it, let's get it done. 521 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 5: Let's you know, so you know, maybe that's something that 522 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,600 Speaker 5: we all can that will be helpful to them as well, 523 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 5: like okay, is this time for lecture or love? 524 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,679 Speaker 1: It's true and sometimes sometimes you don't have to guess. 525 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 1: Sometimes you can ask. Somebody tells you how they feel, 526 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,040 Speaker 1: and you can say, do you want me to lecture? 527 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 1: Do you want me to love? Do you want me 528 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: to try and fix it? Do you want me to 529 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: just sit here and listen? And people will say I 530 00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: just need to listen and say, oh, actually, you know what, 531 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: I want to know your opinion. So the irony is 532 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,440 Speaker 1: you don't even have to guess. Yeah, you can actually ask, 533 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,160 Speaker 1: and people know. The funny thing about all of this 534 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: is this is what we're trained to do. This is 535 00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:50,639 Speaker 1: what parents are trained to do for children. You know, 536 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,639 Speaker 1: we're trained we learn to affirm the feelings of our kids. 537 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: You know, they come home angry or if something happens 538 00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,479 Speaker 1: or somebody takes their candy and they say, I'm angry, 539 00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 1: and you know, supposed to say, oh, don't be angry, 540 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,480 Speaker 1: you shouldn't be angry. We supposed to say, boy, yeah, pooh, 541 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: that must really that must really hurt. And this is 542 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,480 Speaker 1: what we're supposed to do with kids. Like any parent 543 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: whos that read a couple of books you know about parenting, 544 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: knows this well, we're supposed to do the same thing 545 00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:19,600 Speaker 1: with adults too, like it hasn't changed because we get older, 546 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:24,159 Speaker 1: we still want our feelings affirmed. And it's really funny 547 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: how what we know how to do for kids we 548 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:26,760 Speaker 1: stopped doing for adults. 549 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,440 Speaker 5: Well, sign of the next time you call me. 550 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 4: Lecture or love, I do love, though, how many of 551 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 4: you know you got three husbands around the table here. 552 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,880 Speaker 4: Let's be honest as men own that one for a minute, 553 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:44,000 Speaker 4: particularly men. 554 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 1: Men like to fix exactly, men of worse when it 555 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: comes to holding space for feelings one hundred percent tro. 556 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:52,080 Speaker 4: And my wife and I love my wife, but my 557 00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 4: wife will also call me out on that, and she's right. 558 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. 559 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 6: So in our book we discussed the importance of putting 560 00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 6: love in service the center of what we do. What 561 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 6: do you put at the center of your work and 562 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 6: the legacy that you are creating? 563 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 1: Service is very, very high. I believe desperately in service. 564 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,440 Speaker 1: In fact, going back your fulfillment question, I think true 565 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: fulfillment is the opportunity to serve those who serve others. 566 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: And when we are given the opportunity to serve those 567 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 1: or serve others, that is when you will find deep, deep, 568 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: deep fulfillment. Every time I speak, I remind myself that 569 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 1: I'm there to give, not to take. You can tell takers, right, 570 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,959 Speaker 1: they stand on the stage. The backdrop has their website, 571 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,160 Speaker 1: their picture of their book, you know their their handles 572 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: for all their social media's their you know their email. 573 00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 1: It's like it's a taking mentality. And you can hear 574 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,440 Speaker 1: them in their answers. You know, when somebody asks a question, 575 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: they say, well, you'll have to you'll have to buy 576 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 1: my book to get that answer. That's a that's a 577 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 1: that's that's a taking mentality, right, And they usually start 578 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: by saying all their credentials when they stand up. You know, 579 00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 1: I've never done any of those things. I show up 580 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: with a giver's heart, which is I'll answer every question. 581 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: I'll give everything I can. I don't care the size 582 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:07,520 Speaker 1: of the audience. I don't care if they're senior. I 583 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 1: don't care if they're junior. You get one hundred percent 584 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: of what I have to offer, which is a point 585 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: of view on how the world could work. And literally 586 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: out loud to myself every single time I speak, I 587 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,840 Speaker 1: will mutter out loud under my breath just before I 588 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 1: walk out on the stage, you're here to give. It's 589 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: a little reminder, because that little reminder will change the 590 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: way in which I show up. And so for me, 591 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: service is the thing. And I could be brought to 592 00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: tears when I hear stories of service. 593 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 5: Is that something that you think did you stumble upon that? 594 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:41,560 Speaker 5: Was it ingrained? Because I'm reminded we spent a delightful afternoon. 595 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: At your house, so it was lovely, it. 596 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 5: Was, and I absolutely fell in love with your mom 597 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 5: and dad, and you, like your sister, not going to 598 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,280 Speaker 5: spend some more one on one day and I love you. 599 00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: Thank you. 600 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 5: You have the hierarchy right, and I just can't after 601 00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:03,000 Speaker 5: having met your parents, also wondering was it also nurtured 602 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 5: whether intentionally or not in your home or service, and 603 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 5: because they're just incredible individuals. 604 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: That's very kind. Thank you. You know it's not the obvious, 605 00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: to be honest with you, it's like we weren't like 606 00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:18,719 Speaker 1: forced to volunteer on the weekends. You know we, you 607 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:22,320 Speaker 1: know we It wasn't what you would expect, but there, 608 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,640 Speaker 1: I think there is an important component. When I was 609 00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,080 Speaker 1: writing leaders eat Less, I was doing research on parenting 610 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 1: because I want to understand where values came from. And 611 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: we assume our values come from our parents, and it 612 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 1: turns out the research shows the opposite, that our values 613 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: don't come purely from our parents. They're influenced by our teachers, 614 00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,239 Speaker 1: by our friends, you know, they come from all over 615 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: the place. We're an amalgamation right of which our parents 616 00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,080 Speaker 1: are a part. But there is one thing universally or 617 00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: two things universally across every culture that every child learns 618 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 1: from their parents how to treat yourself and know how 619 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: to treat others. And both our parents instilled in us 620 00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 1: that it doesn't matter if somebody is at the top 621 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:06,920 Speaker 1: of the organization hierarchically or entry level at the organization, 622 00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 1: you treat them the same. And they both modeled it 623 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:11,479 Speaker 1: like I remember, you know, when I was a kid, 624 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: I'd go to work with my dad, and the way 625 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: he would treat, you know, sort of the studio staff 626 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,400 Speaker 1: was exactly the same way he would treat the other executives. 627 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: And I think that was instilled in us at a 628 00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: very early age, which everybody's human and you treat everybody 629 00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,720 Speaker 1: with respect. So that definitely factors in. 630 00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 5: So live in your legacy is about small, intentional steps. 631 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 5: What's one action that you take daily to live out 632 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 5: your purpose. 633 00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 1: I mean, listening is one of the hardest skills we 634 00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: have to learn. And if you're a little bit tired, 635 00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 1: you forget it. If you're a little bit grumpy, you 636 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: forget it. If you're a little bit preoccupied with your 637 00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,560 Speaker 1: own whatever, you forget it. And so I think every 638 00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,640 Speaker 1: day I try hard to be a better listener. When 639 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 1: somebody asks me something does something around me, I try 640 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:05,080 Speaker 1: hard to be a better listener. I'm a reactor, which 641 00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: means information comes in unfiltered. There's a reaction, which is 642 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: not how I feel. And then thirty seconds later, now 643 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 1: you'll get actually how I feel like something happens to 644 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: be like, what don't those idiots know? And that's not 645 00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: actually how I feel? Give me thirty seconds and be like, well, look, 646 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,320 Speaker 1: clearly they're just trying to do something. And so I'm 647 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: trying very very hard not to be a reactor and 648 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 1: get to the actually how I feel. But it all 649 00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: also comes from listening, which is, you know, giving people 650 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 1: the benefit of the doubt and showing grace. So every 651 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:37,080 Speaker 1: day one percent better. 652 00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:39,800 Speaker 4: It's easy to talk about the disconnected to America or 653 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,520 Speaker 4: the disconnected world, and it's harder to go across the street, 654 00:33:42,560 --> 00:33:44,800 Speaker 4: to our neighbor and to have that extreme listening moment 655 00:33:44,920 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 4: or that family member who we pull away from, but 656 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 4: perhaps we need to pull towards and just listen. I 657 00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 4: love that sometimes you got to sit in the mud. 658 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 4: I love the challenge to that. We all want to help, 659 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 4: all the husbands out here, not in their head on 660 00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 4: that one. We all want to help, but we just 661 00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 4: have to listen. And sometimes you have to sit in 662 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 4: the mud. And then and only then can that post 663 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,840 Speaker 4: traumatic growth happen. And we know that you inspired our listeners, 664 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:08,400 Speaker 4: and so we're very grateful to you, Simon. Thanks for 665 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:09,240 Speaker 4: living your legacy. 666 00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. Thank you, Thank you, Simon, thank 667 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,560 Speaker 1: you, you pleasure, thank you my pleasure. 668 00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,680 Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, thank you for joining us. If 669 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 2: you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share, and follow us on 670 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 2: at my Legacy Movement on social media and YouTube. New 671 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 2: episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus content every Thursday. At 672 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,040 Speaker 2: its core. This podcast honors doctor King's vision of the 673 00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:34,799 Speaker 2: beloved community and the power of connection. Of Legacy Plus 674 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 2: studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and executive producer Susanne Hayward, 675 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 2: co executive producer Liza Lyle. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, 676 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,160 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts.