Speaker 1: Your thoughts on the Kyrie situation.
Speaker 2: Well, I think it's pretty telling as far as like
Speaker 2: how I think the most upsetting thing to me about
Speaker 2: it was like the lack of sort of like support
Speaker 2: obviously for not just like the Jewish community, but just
Speaker 2: like like anti hate speech from other players and like
Speaker 2: coaches and people in the league in general, Like, obviously
Speaker 2: it's not their responsibility to like account for speak for Kyrie,
Speaker 2: but the few voices I did here to speak about
Speaker 2: it were like mostly supporting his right to like say
Speaker 2: whatever he wants, which I thought was really upsetting.
Speaker 3: There wasn't a lot of pute players.
Speaker 2: Coming out and being like, you know, like, for example,
Speaker 2: like like osmond On the Calves is a Jewish NBA player.
Speaker 2: It must have really sucked to have zero Cleveland Cavaliers
Speaker 2: come out like hey, one of our teammates is Jewish
Speaker 2: and like this really sucks. But uh, I like, I mean,
Speaker 2: I thought Lebron's statement on it at the time was
Speaker 2: great since he's sort of like, you know, he said
Speaker 2: some stuff since then that like weaken the statement a
Speaker 2: little bit because I think he honestly just wants Kyrie
Speaker 2: to be a Laker, and so he's like trying to
Speaker 2: like lay the groundwork for that, which I get on
Speaker 2: a basketball level and a human level, it kind of sucks.
Speaker 2: But but yeah, I don't know. I mean, I think
Speaker 2: it's like we're in such a weird time in history
Speaker 2: where like people can like say stuff like that and
Speaker 2: kind of be okay, And it's like, what, like can you.
Speaker 3: Imagine like even I don't know, in like the George W.
Speaker 2: Bush time, like not even like Obama like before that,
Speaker 2: like even like that was a pretty.
Speaker 3: Dark time in American history.
Speaker 2: We were like invading Middle Eastern countries and like it
Speaker 2: was pretty bad. I mean, like George Bush was like
Speaker 2: very problematic in his own ways, but like can you
Speaker 2: imagine someone just saying something like wildly into semitic and
Speaker 2: like survive weathering that storm at all? Like it just
Speaker 2: it was outrageous, you know, And like a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff that's said now, I feel like I think we
Speaker 2: got so desensitized, like so much insane horrifying stuff being
Speaker 2: like hurdled at us every single day, like like a
Speaker 2: different crazy thing that Trump was saying, a different mass shooting,
Speaker 2: a different like potential world war like every day that
Speaker 2: we were sort of just like, oh, like, look at
Speaker 2: your phone something horrifying. Okay, yeah, now I have to
Speaker 2: go to Starbucks, So I guess I'll deal with that later.
Speaker 2: And so I think people are sort of like, I
Speaker 2: think they have like a shock exhaustion, like, and people
Speaker 2: just are it's really hard to be outraged all the time,
Speaker 2: and it's actually not They shouldn't be, Like it's really
Speaker 2: bad for you. So I think when something like the
Speaker 2: Kyrie thing happens, it's just like, oh, there's.
Speaker 3: A fucking Kyrie being Kyrie. And I think.
Speaker 2: People were rightfully really upset, But I think, how can
Speaker 2: you maintain being upset about something like that for longer
Speaker 2: than like two or three days, Like you just can't.
Speaker 3: There's so much else going on.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And it was it felt like there were these
Speaker 1: other groups that were mad because quote unquote Kyrie didn't
Speaker 1: do anything really, you know, and so they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: Kyrie's being you know, unlike drugged through the coals on
Speaker 1: something that's very insidious, very painful, but that there wasn't
Speaker 1: an even I don't know if you saw this, but
Speaker 1: Jay Williams went on Ryan Clark's podcast and they were
Speaker 1: basically like, yeah, Kyrie's just trying to figure out his
Speaker 1: heritage and there's nothing wrong with that, and it's like,
Speaker 1: no way, See, the facts don't support that, right, the
Speaker 1: facts don't support that. The sort of crux of what
Speaker 1: he's trying to do and getting at and discovering is
Speaker 1: not something to discover and that discovery sort of puts
Speaker 1: other people's history and watched that history in a really
Speaker 1: insidious way.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And it was also just like, it's not even just
Speaker 2: this idea, because I mean, the fundamental idea of I
Speaker 2: think what he was like get trying to get behind
Speaker 2: was this idea of that the original that like like
Speaker 2: the black Israelites and that the original Jews are actually
Speaker 2: black and that has been wiped from history.
Speaker 3: And it's like that's a conspiracy theory.
Speaker 2: But like, I understand why that would be intriguing to
Speaker 2: you if you're someone like Kyrie who like has historically
Speaker 2: been drawn to conspiracy theories and drawn to like, oh,
Speaker 2: people are trying to hide my history from me. The
Speaker 2: other problem that I think was like the bigger problem
Speaker 2: was that the actual piece of film slash literature that
Speaker 2: he was promoting had a bunch of other stuff in it,
Speaker 2: like Hitler wasn't that bad type of stuff, so like
Speaker 2: that stuff comes with it and you don't get to
Speaker 2: like cherry pick. And the way he reacted to it
Speaker 2: was super like, well, I'm entitled to do whatever, and
Speaker 2: you guys are the ones saying that I'm promoting and
Speaker 2: I'm just like tweeting it and that's not a promotion.
Speaker 2: Like he was just being kind of like I feel like,
Speaker 2: kind of petulant in his response, and I think that
Speaker 2: also was part of it. But yeah, I mean I
Speaker 2: think like, and also this is like obviously such a complicated,
Speaker 2: nuanced issue because like I think a lot of people's
Speaker 2: responses in Kyrie's defense are pointing out something which is
Speaker 2: just fundamentally true, which is that like Jewish people and
Speaker 2: I am one, as much as we have been persecuted
Speaker 2: and there is racism and hatred against us, we also
Speaker 2: the majority of us benefit from white privilege, which is
Speaker 2: a real thing.
Speaker 3: So it's not just like.
Speaker 2: Cut and dry like hatefulness and cut and dry prejudice
Speaker 2: that we're dealing with, because we're also beneficiaries of like
Speaker 2: very real privilege at the same time. And so I
Speaker 2: think that like a lot of people who are coming
Speaker 2: to Kyrie's defense are responding really less to like the
Speaker 2: actual problem at hand and more to like years and
Speaker 2: years and years of being victims of racism. And I
Speaker 2: think that's totally understandable, and I have a lot of
Speaker 2: empathy for that. So that's why I'm sort of like, uh,
Speaker 2: it's real complicated because it's like the people who look
Speaker 2: like the people who are being, you know, victims of
Speaker 2: prejudice in this instance, are the very same looking people
Speaker 2: for the most part, who have made black people's lives
Speaker 2: a living hell.
Speaker 3: Like that's just white people across the board.
Speaker 2: I'm not saying Jewish people specifically, but like white people
Speaker 2: in general. So like, I think that that's understandable that
Speaker 2: there would be like complicatedness there and it wouldn't just
Speaker 2: all be like, oh, kumbaya, we're all in this together,
Speaker 2: because we're all persecuted and we're all like marginalized, Like
Speaker 2: there's marginalizations obviously, like very complicated and there's a lot
Speaker 2: of nuance there. So I just wish that people like
Speaker 2: Kyrie were more like willing to actually educate themselves and
Speaker 2: like not just like watching YouTube video and think that
Speaker 2: they have all the answers and also something that I
Speaker 2: think is a problem that is born out of internet
Speaker 2: culture is like reluctance to admit when you're wrong. Like
Speaker 2: I think that's like when he realized what he promoted.
Speaker 2: I think he just was too proud to be like,
Speaker 2: oh fuck, I fucked up. There's some bad shit in
Speaker 2: that video, you know.
Speaker 1: And let's be honest, Like he didn't watch that movie.
Speaker 3: I watched the whole thing. No, he probably watched like
Speaker 3: a clip from it.
Speaker 2: So that's the thing, is like we're all human, we
Speaker 2: all make mistakes, we all maybe like promote something that
Speaker 2: ends up being problematic, like whatever, like.
Speaker 3: Just own it, just be like, my bad, this was
Speaker 3: actually really messed up. Actually don't believe this because it's
Speaker 3: not real.
Speaker 2: So that's likely that's that we can at least get
Speaker 2: that far as a human race, that we can like,
Speaker 2: if we're gonna keep being dead wrong, at least maybe
Speaker 2: we can like own it at some point and like
Speaker 2: be willing to like grow and move on from it
Speaker 2: and not just like die on every single hill.
Speaker 3: So let's talk a littlekers. Yeah, there's a lot, girl,
Speaker 3: there's going on. Where to begin?
Speaker 1: It feels like the season has already like had a
Speaker 1: full one.
Speaker 4: Right, There's been three seasons all win five and then
Speaker 4: this sort of like middle zone and then this crazy
Speaker 4: dominance from Anthony Davis, which, yeah, I mean everything data Davis, right,
Speaker 4: that's nick.
Speaker 1: I didn't think it was gonna work. I didn't think
Speaker 1: that the and maybe it still won't.
Speaker 2: Right, No, I'm not fully convinced yet, but but he's
Speaker 2: been amazing for sure.
Speaker 1: So, like, what do you think has changed for the
Speaker 1: Lakers from going on five and people saying, hey, trade
Speaker 1: everyone to and like trade Russ.
Speaker 3: And maybe waving to me.
Speaker 1: I definitely said that, yeah, trade them or wave them
Speaker 1: or get rid of them, to whatever version that we
Speaker 1: see now. And what is that version now?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think there's honestly so many things that
Speaker 2: broke right for the version of the Lakers right now
Speaker 2: where they're winning. I think the most important thing that
Speaker 2: changed is that Anthony Davis is healthy and he's super
Speaker 2: motivated and he's playing like absolute peak Anthony Davis. And
Speaker 2: I think, you know, coach Ham said in the off season,
Speaker 2: like that's everything for this team. Like if Anthony Davis
Speaker 2: is playing like an MVP, it's a completely different story.
Speaker 2: So I think that's The biggest thing that's changed is
Speaker 2: he came out at the beginning of the season looking
Speaker 2: a little like not like apathetic, but just like he
Speaker 2: wasn't giving a thousand percent like he is now, and
Speaker 2: he seems like he's just on a tear, like he's
Speaker 2: just like has something to prove now, which I think
Speaker 2: he should have to begin with.
Speaker 3: But that's one two.
Speaker 2: I mean, like it sounds inconsequential, but like they did
Speaker 2: have some players that were out to start the season,
Speaker 2: like Dennis Shruder, I think is like a good bench
Speaker 2: option for a point guard.
Speaker 3: He wasn't available. Thomas Bryant was also out.
Speaker 2: Like those aren't going to like change your season, but
Speaker 2: it is a factor, like they weren't fully fully healthy obviously.
Speaker 2: The Westbrook thing, I think he was very resistant to
Speaker 2: coming off the bench in the beginning. He said that
Speaker 2: it was going to be the cause of injuries because
Speaker 2: he didn't know how to stay warm if he was
Speaker 2: coming off the bench.
Speaker 3: He was being like a big big baby about it.
Speaker 2: And I do think at first when they brought him
Speaker 2: off the bench, they kind of tried, like they tried
Speaker 2: him and the like having him, you know, start and
Speaker 2: then immediately come off the floor and then come off
Speaker 2: the bench. They kind of tried, they really tried to
Speaker 2: be bullish on having him in closing lineups.
Speaker 3: That really doesn't work.
Speaker 2: So I think having him just like in a straight
Speaker 2: up bench role, like not opening, not closing, just right
Speaker 2: in the middle has been super helpful. And then Lebron
Speaker 2: is like, you know, finding his rhythm. He had a
Speaker 2: really rough start to the season. He's looked a lot
Speaker 2: better in recent games. He had you know, tweaked his ankle,
Speaker 2: kind of tweaked his kind of growin injury come back.
Speaker 2: So like I think Lebron playing at the level that
Speaker 2: he's kept capable of, ad playing at the level he's
Speaker 2: capable of, and everybody else kind of buying in. I
Speaker 2: still don't think that's like a championship team personally, because
Speaker 2: like I think that they do if in my ideal world,
Speaker 2: like they at least need to move Patrick Beverley and
Speaker 2: a pick if not Russ. But they're way more fun
Speaker 2: to watch now and they're not a complete disaster. They're
Speaker 2: like a playing team at least, So that's I mean,
Speaker 2: that's way better than what they weren't to start the season.
Speaker 2: It was like some of the most depressing basketball I've
Speaker 2: ever seen. It was joyless, skillless, like death.
Speaker 3: It was so bad.
Speaker 1: And the amount of airball brick three much.
Speaker 3: It was just so so bad, so so freaking bad. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so bad.
Speaker 1: You said that you thought the Lakers were in a
Speaker 1: toxic relationship with Russell Westbrook in The Guardians.
Speaker 3: You think that's true still.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's complicated because I think they're
Speaker 2: in that weird if I had to describe where they
Speaker 2: are in their relationship to keep going with the metaphor
Speaker 2: I was using in the piece, which is that they're
Speaker 2: in this long term relationship that like maybe wasn't very
Speaker 2: thought out, and like maybe you like have a really
Speaker 2: fun couple weeks with someone on vacation and then you
Speaker 2: move in together and then you're like, oh, we actually
Speaker 2: have like nothing in common. This is kind of a disaster.
Speaker 2: Like in keeping with that metaphor, I think they've been
Speaker 2: to couple's therapy. I think they're both trying to work
Speaker 2: it out. I don't think I mean for sure it's
Speaker 2: over after this season. I mean, at the very most,
Speaker 2: it's going to be one more season. They're not going
Speaker 2: to bring him back. If they did they'd be absolutely insane,
Speaker 2: and I really don't think they will. I still think
Speaker 2: it would probably be better to trade him, Like, even
Speaker 2: though it's going better, a forty seven million dollar bench
Speaker 2: player is like not the best case scenario for anyone,
Speaker 2: Like he would way prefer to have a bigger role
Speaker 2: I think on a different team, and they would way
Speaker 2: prefer to have that forty seven million dollars broken up
Speaker 2: into a couple of other bench players that could be
Speaker 2: equally helpful and impactful, but more of them. So I
Speaker 2: still think if they could trade him with one pick,
Speaker 2: I would still say to do it. I think it's
Speaker 2: it's going well enough now that if they would have
Speaker 2: to use two picks to trade his contract halfway through
Speaker 2: the season, yeah, it probably doesn't make a whole lot
Speaker 2: of sense because it's working enough, and you know, they
Speaker 2: can probably move Beverly and get somebody back.
Speaker 3: But it's one of those things. It's like I think
Speaker 3: I said this in the article.
Speaker 2: It's like if someone starts doing the dishes but you
Speaker 2: don't agree.
Speaker 3: One of you wants kids and one of you doesn't.
Speaker 3: It's like, yeah, that's great that you're doing the dishes now,
Speaker 3: but like.
Speaker 2: We still want completely different things, And I feel like
Speaker 2: that's the Russell Westbrook thing, is like it's going better,
Speaker 2: but at the end of the day, they both know
Speaker 2: it's not right.
Speaker 3: So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm like, sort of, I still think it would
Speaker 2: be preferable for them to move him, but I understand
Speaker 2: that it's looking a lot better and I understand why
Speaker 2: they wouldn't.
Speaker 1: One of the things that was like really prominent chatter
Speaker 1: was that the Lakers would be really the only asset
Speaker 1: that they really have, I mean because right, like, Russell
Speaker 1: Westbrook's not an asset. He's a liability, which is why
Speaker 1: you have to hatch picks.
Speaker 3: To him in order to get rid of him.
Speaker 1: Right, So the only asset that you know, the chatter
Speaker 1: was that they really could trade was Ad right, Ad
Speaker 1: last nine thirty four, sixteen three with the steal and
Speaker 1: three blocks. But before those nine games, like he was
Speaker 1: very suspect play, like you said, padetic probably not going
Speaker 1: to get a lot back for a d at that point.
Speaker 2: Which is ridiculous because it's just a few games. I mean,
Speaker 2: people are so they have like fly memories. It's like
Speaker 2: he like when the Lakers traded everything, they traded for him,
Speaker 2: like no one people thought that was a lot, but
Speaker 2: they weren't like that's preposterous.
Speaker 3: They're like, this is one of the top five best
Speaker 3: players in the league.
Speaker 2: Since that time, he's won a championship and then, you know,
Speaker 2: dealt with some injuries that were a lot of which
Speaker 2: I think a lot of the discourse about it is
Speaker 2: kind of silly because like a lot.
Speaker 3: Of it is really bad luck.
Speaker 2: Like like it's kind of like Joel and Bid Like
Speaker 2: I feel like Joel and Bad's just had bad injury luck, Like, yes,
Speaker 2: he does. He need to learn how to fall so
Speaker 2: that he doesn't like hurt himself, Like yeah, he should
Speaker 2: probably be better at falling as like an enormous person.
Speaker 2: But like people were like like someone just like hit
Speaker 2: him in the face and like broke his face ball
Speaker 2: like stuff like that, like eighties, someone just like stepped
Speaker 2: on him. So to some degree, I think it's a
Speaker 2: little overblown, the like you know, the Anthony Davis like
Speaker 2: speculation about like can he stay healthy? But I get it,
Speaker 2: but I think there was like some luck involved there.
Speaker 1: I think you think a d and beat he cursed
Speaker 1: with the injury bug.
Speaker 2: I mean, shit, man, like they kind of feel a
Speaker 2: little cursed cause there's, like I said, there's just so
Speaker 2: much bad luck involved. But also, yeah, I think when
Speaker 2: you're that big, there's just like bodies aren't really supposed
Speaker 2: to be that tall, so just things go wrong. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think any big man in the league is going
Speaker 2: to deal with a certain level of injury, especially to
Speaker 2: the like lower half of the body, because that's just
Speaker 2: a lot of weight. And like that's why people worry
Speaker 2: about about Zion is like it's just a lot of
Speaker 2: weight like on the upper half of your body to
Speaker 2: be running around with like pounding like your you're gonna
Speaker 2: have foot in ankle issues when you have like you know,
Speaker 2: that much weight and height on your body.
Speaker 3: But I don't know.
Speaker 2: Lebron's like six' nine and he stayed prett damn, Healthy SO.
Speaker 1: I don't know different dudes, too, Right, like, yeah some
Speaker 1: of the discourse Around lebron versus eight is like work ethic,
Speaker 1: Related and so you wonder what with, flip what the
Speaker 1: switch has, flipped like between the eighty that we've seen
Speaker 1: the last two years and this version of, eighty like you,
Speaker 1: said hyper, Motivated like why do you think that light
Speaker 1: switch has gone. On do you think that that's A
Speaker 1: Darvin ham related switch? Flipper like This Frank volee will
Speaker 1: bring this side out Of? Ad do you?
Speaker 2: THINK i think Like dardham deserves a ton of credit
Speaker 2: because from Everything i've heard from like inside the organization
Speaker 2: and from them, themselves like they have a great. RELATIONSHIP
Speaker 2: i think they have like a great, relationship not just
Speaker 2: a player, coach but like as.
Speaker 3: PEOPLE i think they have a lot of mutual respect
Speaker 3: for each.
Speaker 2: Other darvin is, Awesome LIKE i SPENT i, MEAN i
Speaker 2: went to like five home games WHEN i was working
Speaker 2: on that reci, piece and every MINUTE i sent Around,
Speaker 2: DARVIN i was just, like oh, yeah like you.
Speaker 3: COULD i would literally trust this man with my.
Speaker 2: LIFE i don't know him at, all but he's just
Speaker 2: like has such a presence about. Him he has such
Speaker 2: a like like, calming like paternal, presence AND i think
Speaker 2: that works really well for some, players like AND i
Speaker 2: think it's it's really resonated With. Ad LIKE ad is
Speaker 2: a pretty sensitive, SOUL i, think AND i Think darvin
Speaker 2: is like just communicated really well with. Him SO i
Speaker 2: do think he deserves some. CREDIT i, MEAN i also,
Speaker 2: think LIKE i feel Like ad is kind of in
Speaker 2: like HIS. MJ i took that personally, Era like you
Speaker 2: Had Bill simmons speculating after the first few games of the, season.
Speaker 3: Like should The lakers even bother Trading? Ad is he worth?
Speaker 2: Anything could they even get like a fraction of What
Speaker 2: utah got For Rudy, gobert you, know like he was
Speaker 2: saying stuff like, that and at a certain, POINT i
Speaker 2: mean like you should take that, personally you, know to be,
Speaker 2: like excuse, Me I'm anthony Fucking, davis like lest you.
Speaker 3: Forget SO i think it's a.
Speaker 2: COMBO i think it's Like DARVINHAM'S i think a really good,
Speaker 2: coach and especially on the person l side of, THINGS
Speaker 2: i mean on the x's AND o side of, THINGS
Speaker 2: i feel, like, yeah He's he's made some questionable decisions at,
Speaker 2: times BUT i think the most important thing about being
Speaker 2: a coach is like how you deal with personalities and,
Speaker 2: egos and especially in a situation like The lakers where
Speaker 2: there's three enormous, personalities like enormous, stars like that's really
Speaker 2: difficult to deal. With SO i, think for sure credit to,
Speaker 2: him AND i Think ad also has just started to
Speaker 2: be like have a little bit of a chip on
Speaker 2: his shoulder about.
Speaker 1: It. YEAH i remember one of the biggest videos THAT
Speaker 1: i did when the podcast first started was is ad?
Speaker 1: Soft AND i remember.
Speaker 3: On a storyline for, sure it really Has it's a valid.
Speaker 3: Question and this was like maybe two years.
Speaker 1: Ago AND i remember in the postseason when they went
Speaker 1: they played The, sons it was like right before, that
Speaker 1: he was, like there's just a lot of people calling me, soft, Right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah you can tell that these guys read a lot
Speaker 1: and watch a lot and absorb a, lot and you
Speaker 1: talk About darvin Ham as as a coach and what
Speaker 1: he's done from just an ex's AND os, perspective like
Speaker 1: this is Probably Anthony davis says this is his third
Speaker 1: or fourth best stretch in his. Career BUT i went
Speaker 1: through his career game by game.
Speaker 3: To be the best stretch of his.
Speaker 1: Career it. Is it's the best game nine game, stretch
Speaker 1: and it like he's never averaged thirty four sixteen three
Speaker 1: with one steal in three. Blocks, yeah for forty six
Speaker 1: percent from three sixty five percent from the. Field his
Speaker 1: best stretch besides that was twenty, eighteen he had five
Speaker 1: forty point. Games he averaged thirty three fifteen and two
Speaker 1: with three steals and two and a half blocks and,
Speaker 1: listen like it's just a different. Version it's almost like
Speaker 1: raking the wheel in terms of how offense is being.
Speaker 1: Run like you have maybe one the worst three point
Speaker 1: shooting teams in THE, nba so, like let's just not
Speaker 1: shoot threes.
Speaker 3: Anymore, yeah for.
Speaker 2: Sure AND i think AND i think it's funny, too
Speaker 2: because it's almost like when they let that, go like
Speaker 2: when they kind of just, accepted like that's not our team.
Speaker 2: Identity the shots started falling, too like their jump shots
Speaker 2: have been better and their shooting percentage has gone up from.
Speaker 2: Three BECAUSE i, think first of, all like obviously the
Speaker 2: percentage is going to go up as you take less
Speaker 2: of them because they were taking so, many and like
Speaker 2: it's you can't make like making nine out of ten
Speaker 2: threes is a lot harder than making like one out of.
Speaker 3: Three BUT.
Speaker 2: I also, think, yeah they kind of like accepted and
Speaker 2: leaned into like eighty just like punishing, people.
Speaker 3: Which is.
Speaker 2: GREAT i don't, know it worries me a teeny bit
Speaker 2: as far as. Sustainability it's a long season and that's
Speaker 2: a lot of wear and.
Speaker 3: Tear his body's.
Speaker 2: Taking he's taking a ton of fouls and just like
Speaker 2: a lot of, abuse so it does worry, me but
Speaker 2: he looks like he's in great shape and