WEBVTT - Questlove Supreme: Sophia Chang 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:03.520 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:15.760 Supremo Supremo Roll Call, Supremo Suck Sun Supremo Roll Call, 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:23.439 Suprema su su Supremo Roll Calm, Suprema Sun Suck suprem Roll. 0:00:23.600 --> 0:00:24.560 What's Loving crew? 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:29.440 Yeah, next hour you stuck with Yeah, Sophia Chain, Yeah, 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:30.640 Ain't nothing nothing. 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:39.400 With Supreme Supremo roll Call, Suprema Sun Sun Suprema roll Call. 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:42.440 My name is Sugar. Yeah, good afternoon. 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:48.040 Yeah, from the baddest yeah jew in this room. 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:55.400 Supreme So Supreme roll Call, Supreme Suck Suck Supreme roll Call. 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.520 It's like e yeah and the baddest bitch. 0:00:59.000 --> 0:00:59.840 Yeah you know what I mean. 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:02.560 It's fia bad because we both speak French. 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:07.319 Oh, I want to for that sub Frema roll So 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.280 Suprema Supreme roll. 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:12.960 My name is Boss Billy. 0:01:13.360 --> 0:01:16.760 If you're wondering who, Yeah, on my grind to be 0:01:17.400 --> 0:01:18.479 baddest bill in the room. 0:01:19.920 --> 0:01:26.880 Supreme Subprema roll Call, Suprema Subpremo Roll. 0:01:28.440 --> 0:01:31.640 My name is Sophia and I'm the baddest pitch in 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:34.920 the room. And I think it's really important that you 0:01:35.000 --> 0:01:41.560 understand it. I'm not allowed to. 0:01:40.760 --> 0:01:41.560 Curse because. 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:54.280 Supreme Wait is this a first for q l S. 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:56.160 Were you about to give a dissertation? 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:57.360 I was about to curse. 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:00.400 I'm allowed to cur Yes. 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:01.640 Oh okay, good to know because you. 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:04.280 Sound effects for you. 0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:05.040 That was beautiful. 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:08.000 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another exciting episode of Quest 0:02:08.080 --> 0:02:08.680 Love Supreme. 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:13.560 I'm your Emperor, Questlove Emperor. Yeah. 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:16.919 With me today is my Supreme team. We have a 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:19.560 blue belt expert showgun Sugar Steve. 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:22.480 Yeah, and we got our red. 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:26.960 Belt twin tongue sword since he laya over here. And 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:29.800 of course the man who runs it all keeps us 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:31.840 in line, black belt Boss Bill. 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:36.760 All right. 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:39.640 So, for me, a lot of my favorite episodes that 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.679 we do a Quest Love Supreme and that we conduct, 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:46.440 my favorite ones always the behind the scenes episodes in 0:02:46.480 --> 0:02:49.320 which we kind of poke the pride and dissect the 0:02:49.400 --> 0:02:53.880 process from the perspective of the person who's usually behind 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:55.919 the scenes, you know, the person that keeps the wheels 0:02:55.919 --> 0:02:58.280 turning behind the scenes, not necessarily in front of the 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.720 camera or on the microphone. So I would say that 0:03:01.760 --> 0:03:05.720 Sophia Chang is definitely a legend in these circles. For 0:03:05.800 --> 0:03:08.040 the past thirty plus years, she's been near and dear 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:10.640 to the soundtracks of our lives, especially that of the 0:03:10.639 --> 0:03:14.600 Shalloin variety. Her expertise and knowledge was key in the 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.960 prime days of keeping the Wu Tang caravan, going be 0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:22.760 it A and R, managing building labels and management Sophia 0:03:22.840 --> 0:03:26.520 Chang and her legendary Gucci Fedor, which is actually not 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:27.160 here today. 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:28.760 There, but I have the head. 0:03:29.000 --> 0:03:31.880 Okay, I was about to say, that's your trademark. She's 0:03:31.919 --> 0:03:33.760 basically seen it at all, and now she's ready to 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:38.560 share her story. Her exclusive audible memoir, entitled The Baddest 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:40.880 Bitch in the Room navigates. It takes you on a 0:03:40.920 --> 0:03:43.720 journey through one of the most creative periods of music. 0:03:44.120 --> 0:03:47.280 Timeline Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome our guests on Quest 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:48.000 Love Supreme. 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:54.800 Sophia Changy, thank you, Thank you, very glad to see today. 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:56.480 You're so happy to be here. Thank you. 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:59.040 Kind of jealous, like you're killing it with the merch. 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:03.360 Yeah, like five books and I think that I just 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:07.120 made like one tea shirt, Like, yeah, I'm kind of 0:04:07.200 --> 0:04:08.720 I've been kind of scheming on this jacket, even though you. 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:11.240 Know I'm not made this jacket. There may be another 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:12.280 one too that I haven't. 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:14.760 Even worn yet. I gotta talk to audible. 0:04:14.840 --> 0:04:16.000 There you go, let's talk to. 0:04:16.120 --> 0:04:17.039 Can I get a jacket? 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.360 See what is that on the back? It says my 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.279 mother lover hustler warrior. 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.880 Indeed, mother love a hustler warrior. Right, I'll see that. 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:32.320 Well, I'll start at the top asking why did you 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:36.560 feel at this point in your career now is the 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:37.760 time to share your story? 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.320 And what do you think we can learn from your journey? 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.159 Uh so, amir, I'm sure you were told this for 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:47.000 years too. For years people said you got to write 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:48.320 a book, You got to write a book. You know, 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:50.400 because of our proximity to what we do, you're actually 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:53.400 an artist. I was artist approximate and I just couldn't 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:56.400 wrap myself around how that was not an exercise in narcissism. 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:58.279 And you know what am I going to do? 0:04:58.320 --> 0:04:58.799 Talk about? 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:01.240 Oh? I hung out here, I did this, and I 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.160 was that's not interesting to me. But when I started 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:06.359 working at Universal in twenty fourteen, and I took on 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:08.520 a number of mentees like you built straight out of 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:10.880 college twenty two right, And they were all women, and 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.480 I understood that my vast and varied experience, particularly as 0:05:14.480 --> 0:05:17.440 a working mother, as a working single mother, could be instructive. 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:20.840 Then I was like, Okay, if I can be of 0:05:21.000 --> 0:05:24.680 service to people, then I'll step into the spotlight. But 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:26.800 before that I simply wasn't interested. 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:30.279 So you just wanted to strictly stay behind the scenes, 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:30.960 and I did. 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:32.919 I did. I was, you know, don't look at the 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:35.640 one behind the curtain. I skirted the red carpet. I 0:05:35.680 --> 0:05:37.839 never wanted to be in the interviews. I never wanted 0:05:37.880 --> 0:05:40.640 any of that. And now you know, I'm going to 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:44.680 be everywhere. But in terms of what people can glean 0:05:44.720 --> 0:05:47.520 from my memoir, I mean, what I say is that 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:55.599 my memoirs for anybody who ever felt undervalued, underheard, under scene, 0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.400 anybody who said yes in the face of so many 0:05:59.600 --> 0:06:03.200 nos was, you know, anybody who kind of pushed up 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:07.640 against whatever confines were placed on them, in any boxes 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:09.599 that were placed on them, and anybody who dared to 0:06:09.640 --> 0:06:12.200 tell their story. And the lessons that I hope people 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:14.200 can glean is that I think that what you will 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.719 gather is that I'm pretty fearless. Now, granted, I have 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:19.800 always had a middle class safety net, so it gives 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:21.760 you a privilege to be a little bit more fearless 0:06:21.800 --> 0:06:26.640 than others. But I got fired, I got hired, I 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:30.400 quit many many times over my you know, my LinkedIn 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:35.160 profile is like reading one piece, but it's you know, 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:38.159 it's just a matter of I think it's really important 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.520 to pursue your passion. And for first gen Asian immigrants, 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.920 that is really not something that we're taught to do. Right, 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:54.320 exactly we are so it is so narrowly prescribed lawyer, doctor, scholar, engineer, right, 0:06:54.400 --> 0:06:57.640 And if you want to stray from this path, it's very, 0:06:57.720 --> 0:07:00.800 very difficult. And I understand it now as a mother, 0:07:00.960 --> 0:07:02.880 but also looking at my parents and thinking of the 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:06.480 sacrifices that they made as immigrants, leaving everything they knew 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:10.240 behind and coming to Canada. In my case, they don't 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.200 really want to hear me say I want to be 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.080 a sculptor, right, because in their mind they're like, well, 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.880 that we didn't leave everything we know and we love 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:22.920 so that you could go do this profession that we 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:25.080 see as kind of unsafe in a way. 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:27.760 Right. Are you the only child or do. 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:30.400 You have an older brother of an older brother? 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:32.440 Did he follow the family? 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:33.680 Did he did? 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:35.880 But he's also extremely passionate about it. My brothers. He 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.640 saw Chang. He's a tenured English professor at Vassar. He's 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.120 the tense, smartest people I know, and that's his passion. 0:07:41.720 --> 0:07:44.200 So French Lit was my passion until I heard the 0:07:44.240 --> 0:07:45.200 message and I went. 0:07:47.240 --> 0:07:47.840 On a second. 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.440 Yeah, I was curious about how French Lit became your passion. 0:07:50.520 --> 0:07:52.280 I was reading about that and I was like, is 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:54.880 it Canada? 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:54.920 Yeah? 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:58.080 Right, yeah, but that that still doesn't mean it that 0:07:58.120 --> 0:08:00.640 becomes your passion to study in college and speak it 0:08:00.680 --> 0:08:01.520 fluently because. 0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:04.800 You are well. What I will say is that I'm 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.480 fluent in speaking English with a French accent, which is 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.040 far more interesting and much more fun. You know. I 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.200 grew up in a family of academics. My father, god 0:08:13.240 --> 0:08:15.880 Rest the Soul, was a mathematician, you know. Again, my 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:18.040 brother became a professor. My mother was a librarian. So 0:08:18.080 --> 0:08:20.320 I grew up in a household where everybody was reading, 0:08:20.960 --> 0:08:23.960 you know, and my parents were reading the classics in English, 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.040 which I think is extraordinary. And again, because it was 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:30.800 just always assumed that I would follow suit, it didn't 0:08:30.800 --> 0:08:33.960 occur to me to think outside of that paradigm. 0:08:34.000 --> 0:08:35.800 So that was the suit, that was that was within 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:38.280 the suit, right, so now do they understand, Well, I 0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:40.960 know your father isn't with us anymore, but your mom does. 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:43.920 She noticed you're a pioneer because like you said, you 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.280 you said you want the first Asian woman in hip hop. 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:48.120 That's a pioneer because they are a lot now. 0:08:48.320 --> 0:08:50.640 I wonder not a lot, But I don't think my 0:08:50.640 --> 0:08:53.120 mother would describe as a pioneer. And to be honest 0:08:53.120 --> 0:08:54.640 with you, did you give your mom this jacket? 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:56.320 Yes? Wear it? 0:08:56.400 --> 0:09:00.360 No for thirty two years up until right now when 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:02.600 she can actually tell her friends that her daughter wrote 0:09:02.600 --> 0:09:04.680 a book. My mother couldn't tell you what I did. 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:07.880 There's no way, Like she wouldn't understand what it means, 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:10.040 Like what does it mean to do A and R? 0:09:10.120 --> 0:09:12.400 My mother was born in North Korea nineteen thirty two. 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.079 You know what I'm saying, Like, she's not because she needs. 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:16.440 The guys, like, but it was the moment when she 0:09:16.480 --> 0:09:17.280 met she. 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:19.640 Did and they were all really gracious and she Yeah, 0:09:19.679 --> 0:09:21.679 she met a bunch of the artists that I managed. 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:25.400 Yeah, dude, Like I know, people don't understand. 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:30.079 They kind of collectively eye roll whenever whenever I mentioned that. 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:32.559 It took me two albums to tell my dad that 0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:33.760 I was in the roots. 0:09:34.200 --> 0:09:34.280 What. 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:40.880 Yeah, but it's that that fear of wanting to disappoint 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:43.440 your parents or not wanting to disappoint your parents. And 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.720 you know, like my dad was busting his ass since 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:47.719 I was five to. 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:51.679 Play in private school, yes, like to go his route, yes. 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:53.560 And so for you to like sneak out of it 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:57.400 to do something you want to do is hard. So like, 0:09:57.520 --> 0:10:02.240 when did you well, First of all, Vancouver, what was 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:05.120 the environment like before I know that you come to 0:10:05.200 --> 0:10:08.520 Jesus moment was hearing the message by Grand Master Flash 0:10:08.559 --> 0:10:11.400 and the Furious Five, But before then, what was your 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:13.319 life generally like in Vancouver? 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:17.040 So it was very comfortable. You know, Vancouver is beautiful 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.440 and it's green and lovely. Again middle class went to 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:25.400 public schools. But I was very much a yellow girl 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.199 in a white world who wanted to be white, no question. 0:10:28.280 --> 0:10:30.760 I was born in nineteen sixty five, and so when 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:34.959 I'm ten, right, and I'm coming of age, so to speak, 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:39.959 everything I see in the media, whether it's television, film, commercials, 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:47.080 or magazines is whiteness. Every representation of beauty and power 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.079 and sex appeal is white. And so I wanted to 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:52.640 be white and to be frank, I kind of wonder, 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:55.920 how does a person of color growing up in that, yeah, 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:59.200 not want to be white? Right? And as I shared 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.600 this story, I've had so many people say to me, 0:11:01.720 --> 0:11:05.040 I felt the exact same way. And so I was, 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:09.760 you know, I'm watching these shows and these movies, and I, yeah, 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:12.720 it was. You know, I grew up getting called chink 0:11:13.040 --> 0:11:16.960 jap gook for sure. I got you know, Chinese, Japanese 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:19.800 dirty knees. Look at these all of that stuff, because 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:23.600 racism then was just simply not as codified, and so 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.200 kids would be in your face. And the thing that 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.640 I learned very early on too, was you're learning this 0:11:29.720 --> 0:11:33.560 from somewhere right right, And you're probably learning some of 0:11:33.559 --> 0:11:35.560 it from your parents. Maybe they're not teaching you that 0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:39.840 charming little song, but they are somehow instilling in you, 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:44.760 or rather not instilling in you, the the you know, 0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.240 the virtue that you shouldn't be a shitty person and 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:51.520 judge people by, you know, and make prejudgments about somebody 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:52.400 based on their skin. 0:11:52.880 --> 0:11:54.959 So you were just in an isolated community. 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:58.320 You weren't and you weren't amongst like your family, and 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:00.640 there was never I'll get my cousin's fuck you up 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:01.880 or yeah. 0:12:01.800 --> 0:12:05.000 No, it wasn't. It wasn't really like that. We weren't 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.719 that isolated because my parents were part of a burgeoning 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:12.760 Korean community, but we were all immigrants. Everybody's parents spoke 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.840 with accents, right, We all ate food that looked and 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:20.720 smelled and tasted different. All of our parents had quote 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:24.040 unquote funny names. So there were all of these things, 0:12:24.120 --> 0:12:30.280 all of these markers that clearly indicated that we were other, right, 0:12:30.400 --> 0:12:34.040 And the world never stopped telling us that we were other, 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.280 whether it was making fun of my parents' names again, 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:38.800 saying something about our food. Thank you white people for 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.600 now acknowledging in the kimchies is superfood, and that you 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.320 think you involved, you think you had invented bone broth. 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:46.959 I don't think so. You know, all of the all 0:12:47.000 --> 0:12:52.760 of these things that kind of diminished, right, who who 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:55.240 we were. And you know, I've been thinking a lot 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:59.200 lately about visibility and erasure, right, And I think that 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:02.560 any of us who live on the margins understand what 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:07.280 it is like to be systematically and institutionally erased, and 0:13:07.360 --> 0:13:13.439 so in kind of denying my parents' history, their heritage, 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:16.320 their culture, and making fun of it. To me, you 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:20.800 are diminishing and you are erasing them. And I certainly 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:22.679 I didn't have this language when I was a child, 0:13:23.120 --> 0:13:26.880 but I really felt that I was that I would. 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.720 You know, in making somebody feel other, you are necessarily 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:31.840 making them feel lesser. 0:13:33.080 --> 0:13:37.839 I see, was Sophia your birthday or was it at. 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:38.360 That's a good question. 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:38.480 No. 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:43.440 So everybody in my extended family has a Korean name. 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.480 I was the first person in my family born outside 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.800 of Korea, and my father chose to name me after 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.240 a Polish mathematician. And that was a conscious decision on 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:54.680 his part. 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:57.040 Okay, yeah, I see. 0:13:57.240 --> 0:14:04.120 So not many people know this about Vancouver, besides having 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.800 one of the best, most adventurous ice cream polos of 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.880 all time. Shout out to La Casa Gelato over five 0:14:10.960 --> 0:14:11.680 hundred flavors. 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:12.840 They didn't pay for that plug. 0:14:13.200 --> 0:14:21.640 Sorry, but you know, not many people know that the 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:26.680 national anthem of hip hop was created in Vancouver in 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:33.000 mushroom studios. The incredible bongo bands Apache was actually created 0:14:33.080 --> 0:14:35.200 in mushroom studios in Vancouver. 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:43.600 Holy shit, I didn't know that. That's amazing in mushroom studios, 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:44.480 that's amazing. 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:45.320 More you know. 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:48.880 So yeah, So for me, it's not shocking at all 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.840 that your passion for hip hop culture because I'm sure 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:55.240 that you know people Vancouver, how did you find that moment? 0:14:55.240 --> 0:14:59.480 But you know, the national anthem of hip hop was 0:14:59.480 --> 0:15:04.800 was born. So tell us about that moment where you 0:15:04.960 --> 0:15:07.480 heard the message, and I you know, for a lot 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:09.920 of us that were around in real time, like, the 0:15:09.960 --> 0:15:13.400 message was definitely one of the besides rappers delight. To me, 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:17.160 the message was one of the first what I call 0:15:17.240 --> 0:15:19.880 war the world's moment where you stare at the speaker 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:21.560 and you're undering, what the hell is this? 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:21.800 Like? 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:24.280 What was that experience like for you? And how did 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:25.480 that transform you? 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:27.640 I want to talk about that, and then I want 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:29.400 to ask you about your experience. I'd be very curious 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:31.120 to hear about your experience the first time you heard 0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:35.240 it too. So for me, you know, all I'm seeing 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.840 around me is whiteness, and then I'm seeing yellowness because 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.040 there are Asian immigrants there. There are lots of Chinese 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:43.880 and Vancouver, and then there are some brown folks meaning 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:46.960 South Asians, right, But I have no exposure to black 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.120 folks and Latin X folks. And again all of the 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:53.600 representations of people of color are coming through the media, 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.680 and that at the time and still largely is the case, 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.960 is who the white male lens now? And I also 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.280 wasn't because I grew up in Vancouver. I'm listening to 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:04.800 top forty radio. I am listening to white music. I 0:16:04.800 --> 0:16:08.440 have no exposure to this remarkably robust and rich tradition 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.280 of gospel, R and B jazz, none of that. I'm 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:14.320 not exposed to any of it. So when I hear 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:17.080 the message, I'm in twelfth grade. There's this kid, Ray, 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:19.840 this Greek kid. He loved music, and he brings this 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:22.800 twelve inch record to school. We're in the lunch room. 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.080 We're in this music room at lunchtime, and he puts 0:16:27.120 --> 0:16:30.600 on the record. Now, the thing that I always loved 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:35.480 was dancing, and so but I listened to disco. Actually, 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:40.000 to be fair, I always love dancing. And so immediately 0:16:40.080 --> 0:16:42.320 the beat hits me in the solar plexus, right, So 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:44.600 I have a viscial response, and then I hear the 0:16:44.720 --> 0:16:49.840 lyrics and I just think, I don't even know what 0:16:49.920 --> 0:16:55.080 I was thinking, but I remember I found it so compelling, 0:16:55.760 --> 0:17:00.160 and in retrospect, when I think about it. I think 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.280 it's because it's the first time. And again I didn't 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.840 I certainly didn't have this language. It's sixteen seventeen that 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:11.800 I heard people of color talk about themselves and represent 0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.920 their own world as opposed to white Hollywood saying, this 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:17.960 is what brown people, yellow people, black folks. 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:18.200 Do, right. 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:25.080 And also there was a sense of urgency and anger 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:31.000 and pride that resonated with me really deeply, because again, 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.160 being a yellow girl growing up in a white world 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:35.439 who wants to be white, I didn't feel pride. I 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.679 felt shame and embarrassment, right, And so I hear the 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.239 message and then I think wow. And also I'm a 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:46.160 French major, so I'm a literature major, and I studied poetry, 0:17:46.359 --> 0:17:48.400 and I knew it was poetry. There was no part 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.280 of me that was I don't understand what people don't 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:52.719 think it's poetry. I think it's poetry, and I think 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:56.960 it's literature. And then I see the run DMC video 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:59.440 for King of Rock. So I've only heard the message, 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:01.240 and then I see King of Rock and I'm. 0:18:01.080 --> 0:18:06.480 Like, oh, oh my god, right, you know arms rocks, 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:10.879 you know, and just exactly the bee boy stance and 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:17.120 just this claiming of me, and this is who I. 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:20.080 Am, and I will not let anybody else define me, 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:23.000 nor will I let anybody else tell you who I am. 0:18:23.440 --> 0:18:27.200 I'm fucking telling you who I am. That was revelatory. 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.359 But I'd love to ask you because the message is 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:32.960 the first song that I heard, right, certainly not the 0:18:33.000 --> 0:18:35.119 first hip hop song that you heard. What struck you 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:36.600 as being different about it? 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:39.239 About the message? All right? 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:44.560 So up until that point, of course, like I was 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:47.600 eight when rappers Ali came out, so that was just 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:52.439 what the hell is this? And the second time I 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:56.159 had that moment was not Many people will write about 0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.560 the Adventures of grand Master Flash and the Furious the 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:01.760 Ventures a grand Master Flash on the Wheels of Steel 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:05.720 basically the first record that demonstrates cutting. So I'm trying 0:19:05.760 --> 0:19:08.840 to decipher how this noise is made? And can I 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:12.600 do this on my dad's think, oh, you know, whippons 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:13.120 and all that shit. 0:19:13.800 --> 0:19:19.280 So but with the message stop scratching my isa K records, right, 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:21.800 I would say that. 0:19:25.160 --> 0:19:27.000 Sitting in my dad's car and it came on the 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:32.840 radio and even he had to take a pause, like, 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.440 but everything in that song hit me because I didn't 0:19:36.480 --> 0:19:38.760 know none of what none of those street terms were. 0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.520 I didn't know what a pimp was. 0:19:42.200 --> 0:19:45.000 Like my six year old cousin had to tell eleven 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.760 year old me, Like I was like, she had to 0:19:47.800 --> 0:19:49.359 get a pip like last night and the pips. 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:52.600 She couldn't make it on her own. 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.000 Yeah, but literally everything like you know, if the front 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:58.840 of the train, I'm like, wait, they're pushing people on 0:19:58.880 --> 0:19:59.360 the train. 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:04.320 Platforms and midnight train and Georgia platform But to me, 0:20:06.200 --> 0:20:10.919 to me, the last minute of that song when they 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:14.520 got arrested, Yo, that's scared the shit out me. 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:18.040 And then that's that was That was a moment where 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:23.560 I feel like the first father and son talk really happened, 0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:28.040 where my dad told me like, you know, that could 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.640 be you, that that might be your cousins, that could 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:32.399 be the boys on the forty ninth Street. 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:33.960 And just the whole Like. 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:40.399 You know, my first lecture about police came because of 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:42.399 that song. I was like, wait, why are they getting arrested? 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:44.520 And what's what's going on here? 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:46.040 Like you don't remember the ending? Like what is that 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:48.199 a game? Getting the car? Getting a car? I didn't do. 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:52.560 Nothing, Like I wasn't old enough to understand when Stevie 0:20:52.560 --> 0:20:56.280 Wonder did that on Living for the City. But hearing 0:20:56.320 --> 0:21:00.480 that that definitely, I'll say the last minute of the 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:05.240 message was such just a paradigm shift in my life. 0:21:05.720 --> 0:21:09.360 That's where I was taught, taught fear the police and 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.120 whatever you do, like straight up and you know all 0:21:12.160 --> 0:21:15.639 that stuff. So yeah, that that affected me in ways 0:21:15.680 --> 0:21:17.640 that I can't even imagine. 0:21:17.840 --> 0:21:18.840 Definitely my father. 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.760 They impacted people. I really hope they know how they 0:21:21.760 --> 0:21:23.040 impacted different. 0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:26.439 Yeah, them all the time when you know, whenever I 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:27.480 see them, how that is? 0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:29.520 That's that's amazing. Thank you for sharing. 0:21:29.680 --> 0:21:32.160 It really seems like from so many of the interviews 0:21:32.160 --> 0:21:35.800 that we've done here that the message is like the 0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:39.960 the equivalent of the Beatles uh Ed Sullivan performance. You know, 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:43.240 the people who saw that or people who heard that 0:21:43.240 --> 0:21:44.280 that's when their life changed. 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:50.800 Well, I mean Ed Sullivan in that way, I mean TV. 0:21:51.520 --> 0:21:54.680 I mean the way viral viralness is now with YouTube. 0:21:55.000 --> 0:21:59.320 Like everyone watched The Ed Sullivan Show on Sunday nights 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:04.320 at nine pm on CBS. So if you had the 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:08.200 platform of being on The Ed Sullivan Show, your career 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:11.280 was made. And the Beatles made their American debut on 0:22:11.359 --> 0:22:16.040 The Ed Sullivan Show, and everything changed. 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:17.520 After that, Like you think my parents was watching that? 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:19.000 Did they have a television? 0:22:19.200 --> 0:22:19.400 Yeah? 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:25.000 Were they born? You just won't be difficult, don't you? 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:26.800 Like, No, I just don't think. I just I don't 0:22:26.840 --> 0:22:28.280 think that that was forever. Well. 0:22:28.320 --> 0:22:30.879 I mean, here's the thing, my relationship with the Beatles. 0:22:31.160 --> 0:22:34.040 Steve, I was just saying no, no, no, Actually, I'm. 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:37.040 Kind of with you my relationship with the Beatles. Actually, 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:41.920 I knew all the black artists who covered the Beatles 0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:45.480 before I even got into the Beatles. So it took 0:22:45.480 --> 0:22:48.160 a lot of unpacking at the age of fifteen and realized, like, oh, 0:22:48.200 --> 0:22:50.120 Gladys Knight and the Pips didn't do that song first, 0:22:50.119 --> 0:22:52.560 and Bill Withers didn't do this song first, and wait, 0:22:52.560 --> 0:22:53.600 Stevie Wonder didn't. 0:22:53.400 --> 0:22:56.000 Do we Out and not for nothing, our households were 0:22:56.000 --> 0:22:57.680 different in a way. That's like my I asked my mom, 0:22:57.760 --> 0:22:58.400 you wasn't. 0:22:58.160 --> 0:22:58.680 At what stock? 0:22:58.800 --> 0:23:00.000 She was like, girl, what the fuck? 0:23:00.200 --> 0:23:05.840 No, No, I get it. 0:23:06.040 --> 0:23:10.560 But I mean the Beatles definitely impacted a lot of 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:17.000 music lovers, not just their their target demographic, but you know, 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:19.600 you were even if you were black, you were watching 0:23:20.600 --> 0:23:33.480 at Sullivan's show. So, how when did you make your 0:23:33.520 --> 0:23:34.600 move to America? 0:23:34.840 --> 0:23:38.239 Like I was, I was twenty two and I was 0:23:38.359 --> 0:23:43.520 literally writing out my graduating essay and I went straight 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:46.120 to the airport. I skipped graduation. We were just talking 0:23:46.200 --> 0:23:48.119 Bill and I were just talking about this. I was 0:23:48.560 --> 0:23:50.919 so anxious to get back to New York. So I 0:23:50.920 --> 0:23:52.439 have to I have to give a little bit of context. 0:23:52.480 --> 0:23:55.399 So as a French major, first of all, living in Vancouver, 0:23:55.440 --> 0:23:57.720 I knew I wanted to break out of Vancouver, and 0:23:57.880 --> 0:24:01.080 as a French major, maybe she'll see right. Of course, 0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:04.520 it's three pairs. And then I went to Paris and 0:24:04.560 --> 0:24:06.920 I met the French and I was like, oh no, 0:24:07.000 --> 0:24:09.560 I'm not doing this. And then in my final year 0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:12.000 of college, I came to New York and I met 0:24:12.080 --> 0:24:14.199 Joey Ramone. I thought he was Johnny. I called him 0:24:14.240 --> 0:24:17.159 Johnny Joey God rest his soul. And I had I 0:24:17.200 --> 0:24:20.000 had heard the message. I had visited New York and 0:24:20.080 --> 0:24:22.960 I knew, okay, this is where I want to be. 0:24:23.000 --> 0:24:27.040 As a French would say, I was like a like 0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:29.919 a fish to water. So when I moved here, I 0:24:29.960 --> 0:24:32.800 stayed with a legendary rock critical named Legs McNeil and 0:24:32.880 --> 0:24:35.560 his girlfriend, and they introduced me that she got me 0:24:35.600 --> 0:24:39.040 a job working at Paul Simon and then I kind 0:24:39.040 --> 0:24:44.000 of in eighty seven and then I exactly on the 0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:47.639 you're so scold, you really are like this. How do 0:24:47.680 --> 0:24:52.119 you keep it on your head? Yeah, so it was 0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:54.200 he's coming off of the world wide Graceland tour. 0:24:55.320 --> 0:24:56.840 So do you have a regular job during this time? 0:24:57.000 --> 0:24:58.320 I'm trying to figure out you said. 0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:00.520 So, my regular job is I'm the distant to his 0:25:00.600 --> 0:25:01.880 tour managers, coming off of. 0:25:01.800 --> 0:25:03.480 Grade before Paul time. 0:25:03.560 --> 0:25:06.159 And like, how you I think I might like, I 0:25:06.200 --> 0:25:09.920 had a little job working at a studio. But also 0:25:10.160 --> 0:25:13.360 at that time, yeah, New York was not as expensive. 0:25:13.520 --> 0:25:15.480 Okay when me and my friends talked. So this is 0:25:15.480 --> 0:25:17.359 in the late eighties, early nineties, right when me and 0:25:17.359 --> 0:25:20.720 my friends talk about it. Where we lived in that time, 0:25:21.560 --> 0:25:23.520 none of us could afford to live there now, no 0:25:23.600 --> 0:25:26.560 fucking way we're part of So I was living well. 0:25:26.560 --> 0:25:28.800 I lived on the Upper West Side with Columbia students 0:25:28.840 --> 0:25:31.520 for a while, but then I lived downtown at fourteenth 0:25:31.600 --> 0:25:34.080 and seventh, and then I lived at the Archives, which 0:25:34.119 --> 0:25:38.359 is this really beautiful white glove building. Elevator Doorman Building 0:25:38.359 --> 0:25:40.680 in the West Village. Not a shot. Could I afford 0:25:40.720 --> 0:25:42.720 to live there now? Not a shot. I mean when 0:25:42.760 --> 0:25:47.000 I was when I was coming up, nobody lived nobody 0:25:47.080 --> 0:25:51.199 lived in Brooklyn, Sure as fuck, nobody lived in Queens. 0:25:51.240 --> 0:25:53.320 And now all of my friends live in Brooklyn and 0:25:53.400 --> 0:25:56.000 Queens because we can't afford Manhattan anymore, like nobody can 0:25:56.080 --> 0:25:57.160 afford the city anymore. 0:25:57.280 --> 0:25:59.960 So I can't afford the apartment. I moved to Brooklyn 0:26:00.480 --> 0:26:01.400 in two thousand and two. 0:26:01.520 --> 0:26:04.240 Yeah, that apartment, it's really tough. But there were also 0:26:04.280 --> 0:26:06.040 three of us living in a three hundred and sixty 0:26:06.040 --> 0:26:09.159 square foot studio. But we were like in our early twenties, 0:26:09.200 --> 0:26:10.439 and who gives a shit, it was probably like one 0:26:10.480 --> 0:26:11.159 hundred dollars. 0:26:11.240 --> 0:26:15.840 What was the environment like back then, because it's I 0:26:15.840 --> 0:26:19.679 would imagine that mid late eighties was more that was 0:26:19.720 --> 0:26:25.399 post danceitaria. So that's the first era of Downtown New 0:26:25.480 --> 0:26:29.800 York scene. So what was the scene into So. 0:26:30.880 --> 0:26:33.480 What was really amazing about the scene at the time 0:26:34.080 --> 0:26:37.000 was that it was really small and I'm not going 0:26:37.080 --> 0:26:39.879 to say insular, because it wasn't insular. It was small 0:26:40.040 --> 0:26:45.199 and it was focused, but it was also very inclusive 0:26:45.960 --> 0:26:48.719 and we were all at the same clubs. So you 0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:52.760 had DJ's, MC graph, artists, be boys all there. But 0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:57.480 you also had managers, A and R, publicist, agents, attorneys. 0:26:57.520 --> 0:26:59.880 I mean, you had every single sector of the industry there, 0:27:00.000 --> 0:27:03.159 because in nineteen eighty seven hip hop is still a 0:27:03.200 --> 0:27:07.480 relatively nascent industry, okay, right, and so and again it's 0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:11.959 localized and it's centralized. And you had DJs like Red Alert, 0:27:12.359 --> 0:27:14.879 you know, and we would go anywhere where Red was spinning. 0:27:14.920 --> 0:27:17.520 You had Clark spinning. We would go anywhere that Clark 0:27:17.560 --> 0:27:21.120 was spinning. So there were there were different clubs. There 0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:24.760 was a there was a moving club called there was 0:27:24.840 --> 0:27:28.320 pay Day, and it was these three promoters. It was 0:27:28.640 --> 0:27:32.720 Chuck Beaver and Patrick Marxy and they would they would 0:27:32.760 --> 0:27:35.320 move around and they started to name so they named 0:27:35.320 --> 0:27:38.360 the clubs after chocolate bars. So there was pay Day. 0:27:38.359 --> 0:27:38.840 There was one. 0:27:38.800 --> 0:27:42.960 Hundred grand I know, and right, so they were named 0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:46.359 after a bunch of chocolate bars. And they could roam. 0:27:46.440 --> 0:27:48.199 Now this was at a time where you could do this. 0:27:48.359 --> 0:27:50.920 No way could you do this now, not a shot, right, 0:27:51.280 --> 0:27:53.240 Like I lived down in the Lower East Side, and 0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:55.040 I'm pretty sure that one of the clubs that I 0:27:55.080 --> 0:27:57.440 went to back in the day was housed in one 0:27:57.440 --> 0:28:01.200 of the high schools, like they rented out high school auditoriums, 0:28:01.640 --> 0:28:05.119 they rented out abandoned like Chinese restaurants and stuff like that. 0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:07.480 And it was so amazing because again this is before 0:28:07.520 --> 0:28:10.720 the internet. There's nowhere out yeah, and we would they would, 0:28:10.760 --> 0:28:13.000 they would hand out flyers and then we would just 0:28:13.080 --> 0:28:15.440 all call each other and leave messages on each other's 0:28:15.480 --> 0:28:18.119 answering machines, google it, and we would, you know, we 0:28:18.160 --> 0:28:20.360 would just make sure that we were all there and 0:28:20.400 --> 0:28:25.480 there was a feeling of community because we were all 0:28:25.520 --> 0:28:30.280 there for the music. This is where records were broken. 0:28:30.920 --> 0:28:34.720 Clark Kent single handedly broke Color me bads, I want 0:28:34.720 --> 0:28:37.720 to sex you up, sex you up. I remember being there. 0:28:37.800 --> 0:28:39.640 I think it was actually Ditty's house. When Puffy had 0:28:39.640 --> 0:28:43.200 a club over here on fifty four Street, and you know, 0:28:44.160 --> 0:28:45.880 none of us had heard the song. Literally, none of 0:28:45.960 --> 0:28:47.760 us had heard the song. He had a white label 0:28:48.080 --> 0:28:50.160 and the opening strains come on, and you know, you're 0:28:50.200 --> 0:28:51.600 on the dance when you're dancing, and then you just 0:28:51.600 --> 0:28:54.800 stop because you don't know the record, and the record 0:28:54.840 --> 0:28:58.080 came on and then and then the bee came in 0:28:58.120 --> 0:29:01.680 and we were like, oh shit. And years later, at 0:29:01.960 --> 0:29:05.120 twenty fourteen at Universal, I was in the in an 0:29:05.120 --> 0:29:08.960 A and R doing A and R admin at Island. Sam, 0:29:09.120 --> 0:29:11.120 who was one of the members of Color Me Bad, 0:29:11.600 --> 0:29:14.239 said that they were in the club that night and 0:29:14.280 --> 0:29:16.440 that was the first time they heard their record played. 0:29:16.640 --> 0:29:21.400 Sam, was that George Michael Vanilla James or the Kenny 0:29:21.440 --> 0:29:22.120 G Kenny G. 0:29:23.080 --> 0:29:26.000 How did you know? Because I used to be a 0:29:26.040 --> 0:29:27.760 Color Me Bad fan. I got the two. 0:29:27.600 --> 0:29:29.880 Albums broke, Yeah, two albums, little bit. 0:29:31.040 --> 0:29:32.880 I didn't even know the Time and Chance was the 0:29:32.880 --> 0:29:36.920 second one. 0:29:35.280 --> 0:29:38.080 Oh that was my joy. 0:29:38.360 --> 0:29:40.920 So they So it was a really really close It 0:29:41.000 --> 0:29:43.400 was a really really close knit community. And you know, 0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:45.600 it was such a privileged. 0:29:45.200 --> 0:29:48.480 To make me feel bad for like coloring Wait, time out? 0:29:48.960 --> 0:29:51.440 Wait what side new? Do you know? 0:29:52.280 --> 0:29:55.440 Right right before a Fat Cat on Fantastic Body whin, 0:29:55.480 --> 0:29:56.280 they're doing Time and Chance. 0:29:56.320 --> 0:30:00.000 They talk about time and Chance, right, all right? Good? 0:30:01.920 --> 0:30:03.240 But it was we were a rabbit. 0:30:04.560 --> 0:30:09.560 But it's this beautiful community and I was welcomed into 0:30:09.600 --> 0:30:11.840 the community and I was embraced and I'm really grateful 0:30:11.840 --> 0:30:14.160 for that. And that was a privilege because hip hop 0:30:14.200 --> 0:30:17.040 was obviously was not of my making, you know, it 0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:19.040 was not my world. And yet hip hop was like, 0:30:20.280 --> 0:30:23.080 come in so and you know the first people were 0:30:23.120 --> 0:30:28.200 Crazy Legs and DJ Scratch brilliant at the New Music Seminar. Yeah, 0:30:28.560 --> 0:30:30.960 Legs has the store where he's like, I'll never forget 0:30:30.960 --> 0:30:33.000 the first time I saw you. I was looking across, going, 0:30:33.600 --> 0:30:36.040 who is that little Asian woman that knows all the 0:30:36.040 --> 0:30:37.920 words of brand Nubian stepped to the rear. 0:30:39.480 --> 0:30:46.080 Oh shit, right, So you were there, like I'll say, 0:30:46.080 --> 0:30:48.640 in the early nineties and not oh see, that's the 0:30:48.680 --> 0:30:51.760 era are the era that people mostly tell us about 0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:54.360 this show is like Latin Quarter and all that stuff, 0:30:54.400 --> 0:30:58.840 but kind of that SOBS period. I don't hear a 0:30:58.880 --> 0:31:02.680 lot about, so I don't always wondered. 0:31:02.680 --> 0:31:04.800 L Q and all that predated me. For sure. I 0:31:05.120 --> 0:31:07.200 never went to Latin Quarter. I never went to dance Aetyria. 0:31:07.360 --> 0:31:09.160 Most of my friends all certainly my friends grew up 0:31:09.160 --> 0:31:11.400 in New York did so. But you know the other 0:31:11.440 --> 0:31:14.080 thing that's interesting about that era is that so you 0:31:14.160 --> 0:31:17.280 have these small roaming clubs, right, but you also have 0:31:17.920 --> 0:31:21.640 mega clubs and they're all gone. Palladium. 0:31:22.640 --> 0:31:24.520 It's a dorm, tunnel, tunnel. 0:31:24.640 --> 0:31:29.040 Right the tunnel, limelight, these places were you dare go 0:31:29.080 --> 0:31:29.640 to the tunnel? 0:31:29.800 --> 0:31:30.280 Yeah? I did. 0:31:30.600 --> 0:31:32.480 I did at a certain point, though I stopped because 0:31:33.160 --> 0:31:35.880 I think Chris Lighty, God Restless Soul. I think Lighty 0:31:36.040 --> 0:31:39.240 was like, don't come self. It is like, don't come? 0:31:39.560 --> 0:31:40.440 Can I ask you a question? 0:31:40.440 --> 0:31:41.960 I don't know if this is uncomfortable, but I'm just 0:31:42.000 --> 0:31:44.760 as I'm listening, because you are to me a pioneer 0:31:44.800 --> 0:31:48.040 in ways, because you were in the club, you knew 0:31:48.040 --> 0:31:49.400 all the lyrics and stuff like that. How did you 0:31:49.480 --> 0:31:51.719 navigate around the N word? And how did you realize 0:31:51.720 --> 0:31:53.880 that that was like a hot button because you're from 0:31:54.000 --> 0:31:56.600 Vancouver and there weren't we weren't around to be like, 0:31:56.640 --> 0:31:58.800 well this ain't cool and this is cool. 0:31:58.880 --> 0:32:03.080 And because even before hip hop, I grew up knowing 0:32:03.160 --> 0:32:06.720 that even though I was called chink, jap and gook, 0:32:08.760 --> 0:32:12.920 I knew that the N words it's used against people 0:32:12.920 --> 0:32:15.400 the way that those words were used against me. So 0:32:15.600 --> 0:32:18.680 even if it's in the lyrics and my favorite artists 0:32:18.760 --> 0:32:22.200 are saying it, it never felt right to me. 0:32:22.760 --> 0:32:25.320 Ever, because I do know it's that weird thing where 0:32:25.320 --> 0:32:29.480 it has been made it's different than most slurs because 0:32:29.480 --> 0:32:30.680 it has been made cool in a way. 0:32:30.760 --> 0:32:31.520 So that's why I was. 0:32:31.440 --> 0:32:34.280 Like, and others have issues dealing with that, like I 0:32:34.320 --> 0:32:34.800 don't get it. 0:32:34.800 --> 0:32:35.920 It's so cool to say. 0:32:35.920 --> 0:32:37.320 Yeah, I yeah, I yeah. 0:32:37.360 --> 0:32:38.000 I can't yeah. 0:32:38.800 --> 0:32:42.600 So what was your first inside industry job as far 0:32:42.640 --> 0:32:43.640 as hip hop is concerned? 0:32:43.680 --> 0:32:44.400 Where did you first? 0:32:44.560 --> 0:32:46.920 It was the job doing A and R at jive? 0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:49.760 So I met the Captain A K. Shawn Karasov God 0:32:49.760 --> 0:32:52.200 Rest his soul. He was doing A and R jive. 0:32:52.240 --> 0:32:55.720 He signed a troupal quest and he said, I'm moving 0:32:55.760 --> 0:32:57.480 to the West Coast because at the time, the West 0:32:57.560 --> 0:33:01.040 Coast was had a burgeoning hip hop scene. Right he said, Sealthie, 0:33:01.280 --> 0:33:03.280 I'm moving to I'm moving to Wila. I think you 0:33:03.280 --> 0:33:05.840 should interview for my job. So I interviewed for his 0:33:05.960 --> 0:33:08.640 job with Barry Weiss, very very very smart president of 0:33:08.720 --> 0:33:11.520 Drive Records, and Barry gave me the job, although he 0:33:11.560 --> 0:33:13.160 did tell me he said the second I walked in 0:33:13.160 --> 0:33:15.160 the door, he went, oh, she'll never get the job. 0:33:15.440 --> 0:33:19.120 What what is Barry like? I meet many people that 0:33:19.240 --> 0:33:23.000 work with him. What is he like as because really, 0:33:23.480 --> 0:33:28.320 I mean Barry was to me he was almost deaf 0:33:28.400 --> 0:33:31.120 Jam before death Jam, because he's the one that signed 0:33:32.040 --> 0:33:36.440 like Philly artists like Shell, took the entire Powart label 0:33:36.480 --> 0:33:38.440 and made it his own and all that stuff. Before 0:33:38.720 --> 0:33:41.320 you know, Russell and Rick got established him. 0:33:41.360 --> 0:33:42.640 What was he like? Just Barry? 0:33:42.640 --> 0:33:45.480 I think I believe Barry is a Cornell grad. Barry 0:33:45.560 --> 0:33:48.720 is also the son of High Weiss, and High was 0:33:48.760 --> 0:33:53.960 also in the music business. And Barry is so smart, 0:33:55.160 --> 0:33:57.440 so smart. You know, you're in rooms with people and 0:33:57.520 --> 0:33:59.840 as soon as they start talking, you go, oh, holy 0:33:59.880 --> 0:34:03.040 sh you're so smart. He is also one of the 0:34:03.080 --> 0:34:05.520 funniest people I know. Like literally, if Barry was sitting here, 0:34:05.560 --> 0:34:07.640 in thirty seconds, he could add me laughing. He did 0:34:07.680 --> 0:34:11.360 incredible impersonations. He was amazing as a boss. He could 0:34:11.360 --> 0:34:15.560 be pretty exacting. And you know Barry, So, there were 0:34:15.560 --> 0:34:18.520 all these trades back in the day. There's Billboard, but 0:34:18.560 --> 0:34:21.480 then there's Gavin, there's R and R, there's FMQB. There 0:34:21.480 --> 0:34:23.799 are all these trades, and all of these trades, many 0:34:23.840 --> 0:34:28.200 of them have local record sales reports, right, Barry would 0:34:28.200 --> 0:34:30.160 go through every single one and if he saw that 0:34:30.280 --> 0:34:33.600 an artist sold fifty copies of a cassette in Kansas. 0:34:33.640 --> 0:34:36.120 He'd be like, call that person. So you're absolutely right. 0:34:36.160 --> 0:34:38.759 I mean Barry signed Short, I mean not Barry, but 0:34:38.800 --> 0:34:41.879 you know Jive signed Short. Yeah, they signed Spice one. 0:34:41.960 --> 0:34:44.560 You know, they had their tentacles out really far. And 0:34:44.640 --> 0:34:47.600 I think that was Barry's vision to understand really early 0:34:47.640 --> 0:34:50.160 on that hip hop would expand far beyond New York. 0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:53.800 So I loved working for Barry. I learned so much. 0:34:54.440 --> 0:34:57.560 Who did you what artists were you under? Did you 0:34:57.600 --> 0:34:59.400 sign anybody a job? Doing your terrain? 0:34:59.560 --> 0:35:03.520 I signed foh Nickens, Casual Souls and Mischief. I signed 0:35:03.520 --> 0:35:05.799 an amazing artist named Miss Kilo from the West Coast. 0:35:05.880 --> 0:35:10.040 Unfortunately I left and that that didn't ever happen. So 0:35:10.080 --> 0:35:13.319 those are the artists that I said, yes, oh what 0:35:13.440 --> 0:35:17.680 a memory, Oh my god, you're in the safe place. 0:35:18.280 --> 0:35:23.600 And then I worked with Tribe and karras One and 0:35:23.920 --> 0:35:26.839 UGK and you know a bunch of other I mean, 0:35:26.840 --> 0:35:28.000 they had an amazing roster. 0:35:28.640 --> 0:35:30.000 How did you guys? All right? 0:35:30.120 --> 0:35:35.160 So speaking of UGK, you know kind of the globalization 0:35:35.640 --> 0:35:38.879 or no that not the globalization, for I guess hip 0:35:38.920 --> 0:35:43.560 hop really going nationalization? How how are you guys able 0:35:43.600 --> 0:35:47.400 to because even before Depthtam again, you guys were first 0:35:47.960 --> 0:35:51.440 and going to other terries, not New York, signing artists 0:35:51.880 --> 0:35:55.840 first with Philly with Jeff and Will and Steady being Schooley, 0:35:56.360 --> 0:35:59.920 and then expanding out. So what was it about you? 0:36:00.040 --> 0:36:05.840 UGK and Spice one and well too short? And it 0:36:05.960 --> 0:36:11.320 wasn't Volume ten also no, no, he was on RCA proper. 0:36:11.400 --> 0:36:14.120 But what was it about those artists? Especially with UGK? 0:36:14.760 --> 0:36:17.160 I think, for I didn't sign any of those, I 0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:18.799 can't take credit for signing any of them, but I 0:36:18.800 --> 0:36:20.360 think a lot of it was, like I said, I 0:36:20.360 --> 0:36:22.960 think a lot of it was seeing sales figures. I 0:36:22.960 --> 0:36:25.480 think a lot of it was understanding that. But it 0:36:25.480 --> 0:36:27.840 couldn't be that alone, right, So then we get in, 0:36:27.960 --> 0:36:30.279 We get an indication that there is a buzz around 0:36:30.320 --> 0:36:33.240 a certain artist, and I would literally call a record 0:36:33.280 --> 0:36:36.160 store and say, so, you have this artist name so 0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:39.640 and so, how is he selling? How is she selling? 0:36:39.719 --> 0:36:41.560 It was always a hea though, how is he selling? 0:36:41.760 --> 0:36:44.359 And then whoever was running the local record store would 0:36:44.360 --> 0:36:46.919 give me a sense of what was going on there, 0:36:46.960 --> 0:36:49.520 and if it sounded promising, I would then say can 0:36:49.560 --> 0:36:52.400 you please put me in touch with his manager? And 0:36:52.440 --> 0:36:55.080 then it would kind of go from there. But UGK, 0:36:56.120 --> 0:36:58.480 how did YOUGK come to us? I don't remember, but 0:36:58.600 --> 0:37:01.839 everybody had it couldn't It couldn't simply be data, which 0:37:01.880 --> 0:37:03.719 is different from now because a lot of artists, I 0:37:03.719 --> 0:37:06.239 think now can get signed purely off of data. It 0:37:06.280 --> 0:37:10.759 was data driven, but then it was also talent, you know, 0:37:11.320 --> 0:37:14.680 and you know there was something so unique god Ress's soul, pimpsy, 0:37:14.880 --> 0:37:18.840 about pimp and about bun and about what they were presenting. 0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:21.200 Now we had the ghetto boys from Texas as well, right, 0:37:21.760 --> 0:37:25.719 But UGK, I don't know. I just remember the first 0:37:25.719 --> 0:37:30.440 time I heard them they felt really new and fresh, 0:37:30.560 --> 0:37:33.400 but dirty and grime in a way that I really appreciated, 0:37:33.880 --> 0:37:37.239 you know, So it was probably a combination of the two. 0:37:37.400 --> 0:37:39.200 Well, this is would I always ask an arts when 0:37:39.200 --> 0:37:42.360 they come on the show. Can you name three acts 0:37:42.360 --> 0:37:45.320 that got away that you really that you had a 0:37:45.440 --> 0:37:49.359 chance to sign, or that you had like the sort 0:37:49.400 --> 0:37:52.799 of buzz on before they got became a thing and 0:37:53.080 --> 0:37:54.000 they went elsewhere. 0:37:55.880 --> 0:37:57.680 Well, everybody's going to tell you Wu tang because we 0:37:57.719 --> 0:37:59.279 all had the demo, but there's no way I was 0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:03.600 going to be able to sign them. Dos effects were 0:38:03.640 --> 0:38:06.680 at my house four days a week and didn't get 0:38:06.719 --> 0:38:10.080 to sign them. Yeah, House of Pain. I was friends 0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:13.399 with Mugs from back in the Cypress Hill days Wu 0:38:13.440 --> 0:38:15.959 Tang Grave Diggers. I wanted to sign and wasn't able 0:38:15.960 --> 0:38:18.360 to sign. But the funny thing about the House of 0:38:18.400 --> 0:38:21.239 Pain story is that again I was friends with Mugs 0:38:21.280 --> 0:38:23.360 and I had the demo. And now the thing that 0:38:23.440 --> 0:38:27.080 was really frustrating to Clive Calder, the owner of Jive Records, 0:38:27.920 --> 0:38:30.640 was that Dots Effects and House of Pain went pop. 0:38:31.440 --> 0:38:36.560 Now before summertime, none of Jive's hip hop artists went pop, right, 0:38:36.880 --> 0:38:41.640 I think that, Oh my god, what's that little boy group? 0:38:41.719 --> 0:38:45.439 They did a song it was five Little Boys. Oh, 0:38:45.520 --> 0:38:48.160 I'm bugging that. I'm not remembering. Anyway, they had a 0:38:48.160 --> 0:38:50.240 song about kiss and that was the first, I feel 0:38:50.239 --> 0:38:52.000 like that was the first number one Billboard song for 0:38:52.600 --> 0:38:58.800 oh five, the Kissing Game. So it really got under 0:38:59.000 --> 0:39:01.640 Clive's skin that I wanted to sign Dos Effects and 0:39:01.640 --> 0:39:03.879 I wanted to sign House of Pain and they were 0:39:04.040 --> 0:39:07.239 they were big pop hits. And so after House of Pain, 0:39:07.280 --> 0:39:10.160 after Jump Around came out, he said, you know he's 0:39:10.160 --> 0:39:13.320 South African. Sophia come down to my office. Do you 0:39:13.520 --> 0:39:16.120 do you still have the House of Pain demo? And 0:39:16.160 --> 0:39:19.560 I said yeah, And so in his mind, when I 0:39:19.600 --> 0:39:27.680 played the demo, the you know, the noise. I always 0:39:27.680 --> 0:39:32.040 say that Mugs was kind of the the the the 0:39:32.080 --> 0:39:37.920 next generation of the Bomb Squad bringing the noise that 0:39:37.920 --> 0:39:40.319 that he he was convinced that when I played him 0:39:40.320 --> 0:39:43.920 the demo original demo, that that sound wasn't in the demo, 0:39:44.920 --> 0:39:46.560 but it was. And in fact, when I. 0:39:48.000 --> 0:39:51.879 That's not it, it is it is? It is not 0:39:51.960 --> 0:39:52.279 all right? 0:39:52.320 --> 0:39:55.279 We will have again, we will have arguments, all right, 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:56.640 So the big debate is. 0:39:57.800 --> 0:40:03.320 Here's the deal. So that's not Prince's voice. Is Rosie Wan's. 0:40:03.560 --> 0:40:06.839 We've been having that. I didn't know that. I didn't 0:40:06.880 --> 0:40:12.560 know what. Okay, so Muggs and them keep saying that 0:40:12.800 --> 0:40:20.240 it's Junior walking the All Star but I when distorted. 0:40:21.680 --> 0:40:22.920 And so we will. 0:40:24.960 --> 0:40:28.000 They're saying that it's Junior walking the All Stars. I 0:40:28.040 --> 0:40:31.120 forget the name of the song, but okay, I'm still 0:40:31.360 --> 0:40:33.560 maintaining that it's Prince's get Off intro. 0:40:34.400 --> 0:40:36.680 So essentially, when I went back to So, I played 0:40:36.719 --> 0:40:38.920 it for Clive and he was like, oh damn it. 0:40:39.320 --> 0:40:41.959 And when I went back to mugs. I said, how 0:40:41.960 --> 0:40:44.120 close is this to the version, the demo version to 0:40:44.160 --> 0:40:45.560 the one that got on the radio, And he said, 0:40:45.560 --> 0:40:47.640 it's the version that got on the radio. There's virtually 0:40:47.840 --> 0:40:48.960 no distance between. 0:40:49.120 --> 0:40:51.960 So you're saying that if they lost the yelp scream 0:40:52.280 --> 0:40:54.879 all right, horn line, that you guys would have signed it, 0:40:55.560 --> 0:40:56.080 Like that. 0:40:55.960 --> 0:40:57.960 Was going to scare you know what he said? What 0:40:58.000 --> 0:41:01.680 Clive was saying was and he when House of Pain 0:41:01.800 --> 0:41:05.160 went jump Around became a big pop hit, he was 0:41:05.200 --> 0:41:07.520 so frustrated that he hadn't let me sign it. And 0:41:07.560 --> 0:41:10.120 he said, Sophia, when you play me the demo, that 0:41:10.280 --> 0:41:13.000 sound was not in them. You see what I'm saying. 0:41:13.239 --> 0:41:14.640 So it was like, do you still. 0:41:14.520 --> 0:41:19.600 Have made a difference? That is funny. 0:41:19.680 --> 0:41:22.279 So wait, at this point, had you started the relationship? 0:41:22.280 --> 0:41:22.960 Will will yet? 0:41:23.080 --> 0:41:23.120 No? 0:41:23.719 --> 0:41:25.680 Okay, that's why you said you summer ninety three? 0:41:25.719 --> 0:41:28.920 Ok So okay, Well that is weird of all, the 0:41:29.040 --> 0:41:33.960 label like Jive was just not a label that signed 0:41:34.000 --> 0:41:36.759 any member of the WOU like not even inspected deck. 0:41:37.760 --> 0:41:45.080 So my guess is they were too expensive, really, I guess, Yeah, 0:41:45.360 --> 0:41:46.279 neither did Tommy Boy. 0:41:47.280 --> 0:41:50.160 Yeah they already messed up with Yeah, but they had they. 0:41:50.160 --> 0:41:54.279 Had a chance, right, right, So that's difference. I'm sorry, 0:41:54.320 --> 0:41:55.200 I'm just catching up. 0:41:55.080 --> 0:41:58.360 On budget wise. Budget wise, Jive really. 0:41:58.160 --> 0:42:00.920 Didn't have a they were we were. We were a 0:42:01.040 --> 0:42:04.120 scrappy little independent and we were we had to be 0:42:04.239 --> 0:42:05.560 really competitive in other ways. 0:42:05.640 --> 0:42:08.520 That is so weird because I, at least with the 0:42:08.560 --> 0:42:12.040 look of it and the ads that you guys purchased 0:42:12.120 --> 0:42:15.760 and the artist that you represent it, I was always 0:42:15.840 --> 0:42:18.680 I never looked at you guys as a Tommy Boy 0:42:18.800 --> 0:42:22.360 underling or even a rough house boutique label, like I 0:42:22.400 --> 0:42:24.680 considered you guys absolutely super major. 0:42:24.760 --> 0:42:26.760 No, I think that we were. I think we were major, 0:42:26.840 --> 0:42:29.480 major players. But that had to do with the fact 0:42:29.480 --> 0:42:33.239 that everything else other than big advances compensated for that, right, 0:42:33.360 --> 0:42:37.719 So I'm I was competing for hieroglyphics. That was a 0:42:37.719 --> 0:42:40.600 competitive deal. Well, I can't offer as much as a 0:42:40.640 --> 0:42:42.680 major label can, but what can I offer. We'll look 0:42:42.680 --> 0:42:45.319 at our roster, right, And what people need to know 0:42:45.480 --> 0:42:49.640 is that talent can be an amazing talent magnet. So 0:42:49.719 --> 0:42:51.680 when we can talk about the fact, so those boys 0:42:51.680 --> 0:42:54.319 are from the Bay, they're from the East Oakland, and 0:42:54.360 --> 0:42:56.000 we have Spice one and we have too short and 0:42:56.040 --> 0:42:58.719 we have pooh right, and so they So there is 0:42:58.800 --> 0:43:01.440 also thinking about who your label mates are going to be, 0:43:01.600 --> 0:43:03.600 and that's how we were. That's how we were able 0:43:03.600 --> 0:43:05.600 to be competitive. But it wasn't by spending a ton 0:43:05.600 --> 0:43:06.080 of money. 0:43:06.719 --> 0:43:07.120 I see. 0:43:07.400 --> 0:43:09.960 Wait, I got to ask, since you're associated with him, 0:43:11.000 --> 0:43:15.440 what what effect do you think that that battle with 0:43:15.520 --> 0:43:22.800 Safir had on their momentum? Uh Solz Mischief did a 0:43:22.880 --> 0:43:28.640 infamous battle against Sofia in on Bay Area radio, and. 0:43:29.840 --> 0:43:32.200 All I know is that that's all we listen to. 0:43:33.640 --> 0:43:36.439 To me was the equivalent of if you watch kill 0:43:36.480 --> 0:43:38.040 Bill when oh my god, I. 0:43:38.000 --> 0:43:41.120 Was just gonna I'm so bizarre with Lucy. 0:43:40.840 --> 0:43:48.040 Lou Yes, well, no, no, no, I mean both battles. 0:43:48.080 --> 0:43:50.479 But actually I was thinking of when when Uma Thurman 0:43:50.600 --> 0:43:52.120 just took out the crazy eighty eight. 0:43:53.040 --> 0:43:55.040 The yeah, taken out. 0:43:55.080 --> 0:43:58.160 That's what I wouldn't say taken out, but I will 0:43:58.160 --> 0:44:02.799 say that Sophir just one like it's for them, and 0:44:02.920 --> 0:44:03.640 they had. 0:44:03.560 --> 0:44:05.480 Casual so it was like really eight of. 0:44:05.440 --> 0:44:09.319 Them versus one of him, and he just took them 0:44:09.400 --> 0:44:12.080 all one by one and we just never I know 0:44:12.120 --> 0:44:14.799 that that had an effect on Tarik Treek was like 0:44:15.040 --> 0:44:17.239 I have to be that good where I can take 0:44:17.239 --> 0:44:19.480 out ten mcs or that sort of thing. 0:44:19.840 --> 0:44:23.440 But I mean, did that do you think that affected their. 0:44:24.800 --> 0:44:29.759 Momentum and their or yeah, their confidence at all or 0:44:29.800 --> 0:44:30.880 was it just like whatever? 0:44:31.160 --> 0:44:34.480 Ah, if it did, I didn't see any sign of that. 0:44:34.560 --> 0:44:38.880 And also, you know, being around those guys, you know 0:44:39.000 --> 0:44:41.840 kung fu, we say sharpen your blade every day and 0:44:41.920 --> 0:44:45.080 at the time when I was around them and they're sixteen, seventeen, eighteen, 0:44:45.160 --> 0:44:49.080 nineteen years old, right, they sharpened their blades all day 0:44:49.440 --> 0:44:51.480 every day. I mean, to be around them was to 0:44:51.520 --> 0:44:55.680 hear them freestyle more than you would hear them talk. So, yes, 0:44:55.920 --> 0:45:00.400 is there this epic battle and you know Sophie is 0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:03.879 is dominant. Absolutely, But I don't think that made them 0:45:03.960 --> 0:45:06.480 kind of shrink and go, oh my god, where we're 0:45:06.520 --> 0:45:08.840 not good anymore? To this day, I don't think that 0:45:08.920 --> 0:45:12.000 they that they have any doubt as to as to 0:45:12.040 --> 0:45:13.200 their skills. 0:45:13.480 --> 0:45:16.160 Real okay, oh they're still going strong. Yeah, And I 0:45:16.239 --> 0:45:17.959 kind of wish Opio didn't cut his hair. 0:45:17.880 --> 0:45:22.359 From it again, say it again, that was like when he. 0:45:22.360 --> 0:45:24.120 Cut his hair. I was just like, man, they lost 0:45:24.160 --> 0:45:24.960 their angle like. 0:45:25.120 --> 0:45:27.440 And me because I was like where's he at? 0:45:27.440 --> 0:45:30.240 I can't want is he now? 0:45:30.560 --> 0:45:34.240 Which one is he? For real? I was like, Opio, 0:45:34.320 --> 0:45:35.399 come on, dude, like. 0:45:36.680 --> 0:45:38.040 He did a beautiful hair. 0:45:38.440 --> 0:45:46.680 He did go on all right. 0:45:46.760 --> 0:45:55.880 So I'll admit when I first saw Protect your Neck, 0:45:56.280 --> 0:45:58.080 that was a little too low budget for me. 0:45:58.280 --> 0:46:00.719 I saw it. 0:46:01.600 --> 0:46:07.480 No, No, you know, I've seen it on like a 0:46:07.560 --> 0:46:11.640 local like we had our own local uh aj Shine 0:46:11.640 --> 0:46:14.600 from w KDU and and Philly had his own like 0:46:14.920 --> 0:46:18.200 show of the avenue on Jacksonell University and he would 0:46:18.280 --> 0:46:20.839 show it and it was just like, ah, this is 0:46:20.880 --> 0:46:21.480 so cheap. 0:46:21.680 --> 0:46:24.120 I mean, I got it though, but. 0:46:26.600 --> 0:46:30.920 I kind of feel like people have recontextualized and and 0:46:31.200 --> 0:46:35.400 sort of the way that people will talk about Princess 0:46:35.440 --> 0:46:37.800 Dirty Mind. Like I was there at the beginning like 0:46:37.840 --> 0:46:39.480 that sort of thing. I was like, where you really 0:46:39.920 --> 0:46:44.040 so for you with the with the early Wu tang, 0:46:44.880 --> 0:46:46.959 like you were truly aboard and you knew that. 0:46:46.880 --> 0:46:48.640 This was going to be a thing. Yeah. 0:46:48.680 --> 0:46:50.400 And I also think that there's a little bit of 0:46:50.400 --> 0:46:55.080 civic pride going on there because simultaneously, if I remember correctly, 0:46:56.880 --> 0:46:59.880 the West coast was on the come up, oh no, 0:47:00.600 --> 0:47:06.080 and so there was a sense of like New York, 0:47:06.120 --> 0:47:08.279 New York. We got this shit, right, yeah, like we 0:47:08.440 --> 0:47:11.560 you know it's from That's right. And then you have 0:47:12.600 --> 0:47:16.279 nine guns and they're from Staten Island, and you're like, 0:47:16.320 --> 0:47:18.799 how could it? Does anybody care about Staten Island? And 0:47:18.840 --> 0:47:21.839 they and they did this thing, and I think that 0:47:22.840 --> 0:47:27.200 it wasn't Look you could talk about Rizzz Beats all 0:47:27.280 --> 0:47:30.880 day long, and I remember what it felt like to 0:47:30.920 --> 0:47:33.960 me was I think it impacted me on so many 0:47:34.000 --> 0:47:36.480 different levels. So at that point, I'm considering myself a 0:47:36.480 --> 0:47:38.480 proud New Yorker, even even though I've been there for 0:47:38.600 --> 0:47:42.400 less here for less than a decade, but it was 0:47:42.920 --> 0:47:47.200 so New York, right, Like I feel like Rizzes beats 0:47:48.120 --> 0:47:52.399 and he describes them as grimy were this really unflinching 0:47:52.480 --> 0:47:56.640 look at the dirty underbelly of the city, and I 0:47:56.840 --> 0:47:59.320 and then and then you have their rhymes and he 0:47:59.480 --> 0:48:02.399 somehow Harness's nine guys on what we used to call 0:48:02.400 --> 0:48:03.239 a posse track. 0:48:03.520 --> 0:48:03.719 Right. 0:48:04.120 --> 0:48:06.719 So now, if we made that record, you would fly 0:48:06.920 --> 0:48:08.560 somebody the beat and they'd send you their eight or 0:48:08.560 --> 0:48:14.120 their sixteen. Right. But back in the day, they were 0:48:14.320 --> 0:48:17.800 all in the studio, they're all sleeping on Rizz's floor 0:48:18.320 --> 0:48:21.439 in Staten Island, right, and so you have this kind 0:48:21.440 --> 0:48:28.480 of you have this osmosis happening, and it just felt huge. 0:48:29.080 --> 0:48:32.040 That's how it felt. It felt in terms of volume 0:48:32.080 --> 0:48:34.720 of how many MC's there were, but also the fact 0:48:34.719 --> 0:48:37.359 that I'd never heard beats like Rizzes before. I was like, 0:48:37.480 --> 0:48:41.120 oh shit, what is he doing? And I am far 0:48:41.160 --> 0:48:43.759 from the musicologist you are, and I could never deconstruct 0:48:43.760 --> 0:48:44.520 it the way that you can. 0:48:44.680 --> 0:48:48.640 But the A and R and you wasn't thinking like 0:48:48.640 --> 0:48:50.920 I would think that, Yeah, A and rs are thinking 0:48:50.960 --> 0:48:53.520 fight or flight. I gotta find the next big thing 0:48:53.920 --> 0:48:57.640 to keep justify my job in my position, So my 0:48:57.760 --> 0:48:59.759 first thought would be, oh, this is way too low. 0:48:59.800 --> 0:49:02.919 Fight like this go on radio? Right? 0:49:03.280 --> 0:49:06.960 Oh like that your your inner A and R wasn't 0:49:07.000 --> 0:49:10.920 already tainted and taking over your consciousness? 0:49:11.000 --> 0:49:13.360 Well what the What tainted it was the deal that 0:49:13.400 --> 0:49:15.759 they asked for. So none of us could sign Wu 0:49:15.800 --> 0:49:19.160 Tang Klan right, right, So it was already off the table. 0:49:19.800 --> 0:49:22.080 But it in the same way that the message hit 0:49:22.120 --> 0:49:27.000 me viscerally. It hit me viscerally, and remember I met 0:49:27.040 --> 0:49:30.960 them really soon thereafter, So it is one thing to 0:49:31.000 --> 0:49:33.520 hear the record. It is another thing to see that 0:49:33.600 --> 0:49:37.080 really grainy, g low fi time going five thousand dollars 0:49:37.120 --> 0:49:40.000 video where they're not even I don't even think they're 0:49:40.040 --> 0:49:44.279 even all in that video. And then to meet them, 0:49:45.520 --> 0:49:48.319 and I think because I had the privilege of being 0:49:48.320 --> 0:49:50.840 in proximity to them really really early on before the 0:49:50.840 --> 0:49:54.720 first album came out, I it was it was really 0:49:54.760 --> 0:49:57.480 really clear to us. Certainly in New York, all of 0:49:57.560 --> 0:50:00.680 us knew like, oh, this shit's gonna blow. It's it's 0:50:00.960 --> 0:50:04.080 gonna blow. Not necessarily because we thought Protecting Neck was 0:50:04.080 --> 0:50:07.960 a commercial song. None of us thought this is like summertime, right, 0:50:08.760 --> 0:50:13.239 but it just felt like this swell uh you know. 0:50:13.280 --> 0:50:17.200 I say in my memoir there there's this really great 0:50:17.320 --> 0:50:26.160 Victor Hugo quote which has been kind of loosely translated 0:50:26.200 --> 0:50:31.160 as something like you you can't fight an idea whose 0:50:31.200 --> 0:50:34.480 time has come and so, but literally translated is you 0:50:34.480 --> 0:50:36.920 can resist an invasion of armies. You cannot resist an 0:50:36.960 --> 0:50:40.960 invasion of ideas. But in my mind they were both. 0:50:42.440 --> 0:50:47.920 They were this army who had these incredible ideas and 0:50:47.960 --> 0:50:50.279 that was all resist vision. Look, he couldn't have done 0:50:50.280 --> 0:50:52.920 it with that Wu Tang, but it was you know, 0:50:53.000 --> 0:50:55.320 he was the Abbott and that was his creative genius. 0:50:55.400 --> 0:50:57.200 So was he the first member that you met? How 0:50:57.200 --> 0:50:59.160 did you start working with an organization? 0:50:59.480 --> 0:51:02.040 And what were so heard the Wu Tang demo. Loved it. 0:51:02.080 --> 0:51:04.560 I became a wvangelist. I played it for anybody that 0:51:04.600 --> 0:51:07.760 would listen. I was like, listen, listen to my shitty 0:51:07.800 --> 0:51:12.640 little yellow walk sports walkman. Google it and then I 0:51:12.840 --> 0:51:15.719 uh and but couldn't sign them, but I was a 0:51:15.840 --> 0:51:18.600 huge fan. And then the Grave digg Is demo came 0:51:18.640 --> 0:51:22.279 across my desk, and the Grave digger Is he wasn't 0:51:22.320 --> 0:51:24.720 asking for the same non exclusive, so that was something 0:51:24.760 --> 0:51:28.480 that I could definitely try to sign. And I arranged 0:51:28.560 --> 0:51:31.680 to meet him, and I remember like it was yesterday. 0:51:31.680 --> 0:51:34.880 I remember the weather, what I wore, what I ate, 0:51:34.960 --> 0:51:37.359 where we ate like, I remember so much about it. 0:51:37.800 --> 0:51:41.839 And in that first interaction, of course we talked about 0:51:41.840 --> 0:51:43.600 the Grave Diggas and the parameters of the deal and 0:51:43.640 --> 0:51:45.919 the creative vision, but we also talked about Wu Tang. 0:51:46.320 --> 0:51:47.920 But you know this as well as I do. When 0:51:47.960 --> 0:51:52.840 you get a new conversation with Rizza, it's never just 0:51:52.920 --> 0:51:57.400 about music, right, And you know I've been saying for 0:51:57.440 --> 0:51:59.440 a while that to me, Rizza is the Bruce Lee 0:51:59.480 --> 0:52:02.759 of music. And when I say that, I mean that 0:52:02.880 --> 0:52:07.319 Bruce Lee was took a lot of different traditions. Bruce 0:52:07.400 --> 0:52:10.120 Lee grew up studying wing shun right, and that is 0:52:10.120 --> 0:52:13.239 a very traditional kung fu form, but he studied many 0:52:13.239 --> 0:52:16.560 other forms and then he made his own form called jikundo. 0:52:17.440 --> 0:52:19.919 And I kind of feel like that's what Rizza did, 0:52:20.040 --> 0:52:23.520 as have many producers, like kind of take all of 0:52:23.560 --> 0:52:26.080 these and not disrespect any of them, honor them, all 0:52:26.160 --> 0:52:29.520 of these different musical and sonic traditions, and then to 0:52:29.520 --> 0:52:32.479 blend them and to make his own thing. Now again, 0:52:32.520 --> 0:52:34.960 many producers have done that. Why I call him the 0:52:35.000 --> 0:52:37.920 Bruce Lee of hip hop is because he is additionally 0:52:38.960 --> 0:52:43.680 a philosopher, and I do not I cannot think of 0:52:43.840 --> 0:52:48.440 other artists or producers that I think are true philosophers. 0:52:48.880 --> 0:52:57.680 And this stems from an intense intellectual, cultural, and spiritual curiosity. 0:52:58.200 --> 0:53:00.520 So riz is the guy that has, like any artists, 0:53:00.520 --> 0:53:03.040 traveled the world a number of times over. But he 0:53:03.160 --> 0:53:05.760 is also the guy that doesn't go to whatever city 0:53:05.800 --> 0:53:08.200 in whatever country and whatever corner of the world and say, 0:53:08.640 --> 0:53:12.400 you know, just find me the nearest McDonald's, so I 0:53:12.440 --> 0:53:14.239 can eat food that I'm comfortable with. He will eat 0:53:14.239 --> 0:53:16.319 that food right. He will find out where is the 0:53:16.320 --> 0:53:18.480 place of prayer and where is the faith here? What 0:53:18.600 --> 0:53:20.520 is the language, what is the culture? And he will 0:53:20.560 --> 0:53:23.040 immerse himself in that. And I think it really comes 0:53:23.080 --> 0:53:25.799 out in everything that he does now that that's expanded 0:53:25.960 --> 0:53:29.080 far beyond music. So he was the first one that 0:53:29.120 --> 0:53:32.680 I met, and I describe it as being, you know, 0:53:32.800 --> 0:53:35.160 the first time I met Riza was like going through 0:53:35.239 --> 0:53:38.480 many different chambers, and then after I met him, I 0:53:38.560 --> 0:53:39.839 met all the rest of them. And the last one 0:53:39.880 --> 0:53:41.839 that I met was dirty God rest his soul. 0:53:43.320 --> 0:53:45.920 How is it navigating his life? 0:53:46.120 --> 0:53:51.080 There's two people on earth that I've met, both of 0:53:51.160 --> 0:53:59.360 their tour managers with the Roots Organization, My boy Silbert 0:54:00.719 --> 0:54:03.920 when we were interviewing him, and my first question was, so, 0:54:03.960 --> 0:54:08.640 what qualifications do you have that you feel would be 0:54:08.640 --> 0:54:11.520 beneficial to us? And he said one thing he said, 0:54:12.160 --> 0:54:15.200 he says, I've been Public Enemies tour manager for the 0:54:15.320 --> 0:54:16.200 last twenty years. 0:54:17.080 --> 0:54:21.560 Flavor Flav has never been late or missed a show. Wow. 0:54:21.600 --> 0:54:28.200 I was like, wow, you're hired. So what is the 0:54:28.480 --> 0:54:35.279 amount of Jedi mind tricks that you have to do 0:54:35.400 --> 0:54:38.480 to keep them organized. 0:54:39.239 --> 0:54:42.600 So I could never say that they were never late 0:54:42.800 --> 0:54:45.000 working with me at all, or that they didn't miss 0:54:45.000 --> 0:54:48.160 the show. But to talk about Dirty first, I call 0:54:48.239 --> 0:54:53.000 him Ason. I call him a you know, managing old 0:54:53.000 --> 0:55:00.640 dirty bastard could certainly seem oxymoronic, but I think that 0:55:00.760 --> 0:55:05.560 I did as good a job as anybody could look. 0:55:06.120 --> 0:55:09.239 Ason had an addictive personality, There's no doubt about it, right. 0:55:09.920 --> 0:55:12.320 He was addicted to sex, he was addicted to alcohol, 0:55:12.360 --> 0:55:14.759 and he became addicted to drugs. But when I managed him, 0:55:14.800 --> 0:55:18.000 he didn't even smoke wheat, Like I remember him being like, wet, 0:55:18.000 --> 0:55:19.359 get that shit out of here. I hate the smell 0:55:19.400 --> 0:55:22.520 of that. So I knew him before he did drugs. 0:55:23.040 --> 0:55:24.960 But he did drink a lot, and he did love women, 0:55:25.320 --> 0:55:28.600 and so there was a lot of there was a 0:55:28.640 --> 0:55:32.360 lot of damage control, as you can imagine. But the 0:55:32.440 --> 0:55:38.600 thing that I want people to know about Ason is 0:55:38.640 --> 0:55:43.240 that he was so smart. He was he was so smart, 0:55:43.520 --> 0:55:46.920 and he had such a creative vision. But he was 0:55:46.960 --> 0:55:49.919 also intellectually very smart, and he was really really good 0:55:49.960 --> 0:55:52.480 with people. He was so winsome and he could charm 0:55:52.719 --> 0:55:57.680 anybody when he wanted to. He was super protective of me, 0:55:58.760 --> 0:56:01.880 and he was dead loyal. And I keep quoting my 0:56:01.920 --> 0:56:05.319 friend Julius Ono, who's a Nigerian American director who made 0:56:05.320 --> 0:56:07.879 this movie earlier this summer called Loose and it's about 0:56:07.880 --> 0:56:11.960 a transracial adoptee, and he said in a Q and 0:56:12.000 --> 0:56:14.759 A that I think that every person in this world 0:56:14.800 --> 0:56:17.680 should be granted access to the full spectrum of humanity. 0:56:18.640 --> 0:56:20.279 And I think that any of us who live on 0:56:20.320 --> 0:56:23.320 the margins are not granted access to the full spectrum 0:56:23.320 --> 0:56:26.120 of humanity. I think rappers in particular are not granted 0:56:26.160 --> 0:56:28.000 access to the full spectrum of humanity. And so what 0:56:28.040 --> 0:56:32.719 I try to communicate in my memoir is who were 0:56:32.760 --> 0:56:36.600 these artists to me? So I am far from a 0:56:36.640 --> 0:56:39.600 Wou Tang expert. I could not tell you what sequence 0:56:39.640 --> 0:56:42.080 the albums came out, in the names of all the 0:56:42.719 --> 0:56:46.440 solo none of that that samples any of that. The 0:56:46.480 --> 0:56:48.400 only thing that I am an expert on, and I 0:56:48.440 --> 0:56:51.480 am an expert on this, it's who they are as 0:56:51.680 --> 0:56:55.680 men people to me. And I think that I have 0:56:55.800 --> 0:57:01.600 a unique lens into the wouniverse because of who I am, 0:57:02.160 --> 0:57:06.680 but also who they allowed me to be. And how 0:57:06.840 --> 0:57:10.080 they let me come into their world, and I think 0:57:10.080 --> 0:57:13.200 that speaks volumes about them. I also managed, so I 0:57:13.239 --> 0:57:15.919 managed all three three letter members of WU, tang Od, 0:57:16.080 --> 0:57:20.200 b r z A and GZA. I managed Riza what 0:57:20.280 --> 0:57:22.880 I call his extracurricular activity. So I did not manage 0:57:22.920 --> 0:57:24.520 him as an MC and I did not manage him 0:57:24.520 --> 0:57:26.480 as a producer, but I managed him as a composer 0:57:26.520 --> 0:57:32.760 and then his beginnings his transition into Hollywood. Yes, so 0:57:32.920 --> 0:57:35.400 his first his first GID composing was ghost Dog. That 0:57:35.480 --> 0:57:37.880 was not me. That was Nemo, who was very close. 0:57:37.920 --> 0:57:40.280 I believe he's Jim Jarmis his nephew, and Nemo brought 0:57:40.640 --> 0:57:44.040 Riza into UH to Jim, and then I kind of 0:57:44.040 --> 0:57:45.800 picked it up from there. So it was kill Bill 0:57:45.840 --> 0:57:48.120 and it was Blade and I believe it did soul Plane. 0:57:48.840 --> 0:57:50.720 So we did that stuff together, and he had already 0:57:50.720 --> 0:57:53.040 started writing and directing. But you know, the thing that 0:57:53.080 --> 0:57:56.680 I say about Rizza is he is truly living his 0:57:56.800 --> 0:57:59.160 childhood dream. So when I was a kid, I wanted 0:57:59.160 --> 0:58:02.040 to be a doctor. I wanted to be a fashion designer. 0:58:02.120 --> 0:58:04.000 I never thought that I'd be doing this and I 0:58:04.040 --> 0:58:06.680 love my life. But Riza as a child growing up 0:58:07.080 --> 0:58:09.360 one of I believe eleven children of a single mother, 0:58:09.400 --> 0:58:12.560 growing up in the projects of Staten Island in Brooklyn. 0:58:14.320 --> 0:58:20.000 He watched Kung Fu movies and he imagined and dreamt 0:58:20.040 --> 0:58:24.120 that he would one day direct. And now he's directing 0:58:24.160 --> 0:58:26.480 Kumfu movies and he is writing them and he is 0:58:26.560 --> 0:58:29.720 starring in them. And I actually don't know anybody else 0:58:29.960 --> 0:58:32.480 who had this vision. And he is truly a visionary 0:58:32.680 --> 0:58:35.360 from when he was a child. So managing Rizza was 0:58:35.360 --> 0:58:38.400 a delight. Managing Jizsu was also incredible. I would say 0:58:38.400 --> 0:58:41.520 that Jisse was my favorite client because and you know 0:58:41.600 --> 0:58:44.280 Jizz like I do. He's incredibly low key, and he's 0:58:44.360 --> 0:58:47.520 so gracious, and he is so magnanimous, and he doesn't 0:58:47.520 --> 0:58:49.600 want to be recognized, and he doesn't want to be famous. 0:58:49.600 --> 0:58:52.000 He doesn't want to be any of those things. And 0:58:52.320 --> 0:58:58.760 he is so kind. And I really love managing him 0:58:58.760 --> 0:59:02.200 because he allowed me to transition him into lecturing, and 0:59:02.400 --> 0:59:05.880 not every client lets you do that, right, So somebody 0:59:05.960 --> 0:59:07.680 might say I've thought about it, so but I don't 0:59:07.680 --> 0:59:09.640 really want to do it because there's this thing I 0:59:09.680 --> 0:59:11.240 do and I'm so comfortable and I've been doing it 0:59:11.280 --> 0:59:13.400 for decades and I'm getting paid and I know how 0:59:13.440 --> 0:59:16.520 to do this, whereas lecturing is very very different. You're 0:59:16.560 --> 0:59:19.400 basically standing naked. There are no pyrotechnics, you don't have 0:59:19.440 --> 0:59:21.560 a hype man, there's no DJ, there's no lights, there's 0:59:21.560 --> 0:59:24.880 no sound, and your and your audience they're not drunk, 0:59:24.880 --> 0:59:27.240 they're not high, right, they're just all sitting there and 0:59:27.280 --> 0:59:29.360 they're looking at you, and you're standing at a podium 0:59:29.400 --> 0:59:32.360 and you are speaking. And literally the first place he 0:59:32.880 --> 0:59:35.920 lectured was Harvard. That's the Korean in me. And literally 0:59:35.960 --> 0:59:39.360 the first words out of his mouth was were I'm 0:59:39.800 --> 0:59:45.320 so nervous, and that's jes what yeah, yeah, and you 0:59:45.360 --> 0:59:49.480 know what, the same and you know what, I did 0:59:49.560 --> 0:59:52.040 the same thing with Joey Badass and saying he said 0:59:52.080 --> 0:59:52.840 the exact same thing. 0:59:53.120 --> 0:59:55.200 What was I'm just curious? What was just his first 0:59:55.280 --> 0:59:55.840 lecture on. 0:59:55.920 --> 0:59:59.760 So he spoke about his love of science. You know, 1:00:00.040 --> 1:00:03.280 he is deeply intellectually curious. He spoke of his love 1:00:03.320 --> 1:00:07.760 of science. He spoke about his his inspiration and his 1:00:08.000 --> 1:00:09.160 creative process. 1:00:09.600 --> 1:00:11.280 Can you can you talk about real quick? 1:00:11.360 --> 1:00:13.880 In the prologue, I had a moment I had to 1:00:13.960 --> 1:00:16.160 mama where I was jealous of you in describing the 1:00:16.240 --> 1:00:19.000 relationship with Wu Tang because of a situation that happened 1:00:19.000 --> 1:00:22.040 with metha man and the god Jamal. And I was 1:00:22.120 --> 1:00:24.000 jealous because as a woman who's been in the industry 1:00:24.040 --> 1:00:26.320 for years, we all know what it's like. You know, 1:00:26.360 --> 1:00:29.440 you're telling beautiful stories, but at some points, being that 1:00:29.480 --> 1:00:33.760 woman in the room can be adversarial. It can be dismissive, yes, 1:00:33.800 --> 1:00:38.040 and question in that moment of no protection, right, yeah, 1:00:38.160 --> 1:00:40.600 So I don't know if you want to reiterate that story, 1:00:40.640 --> 1:00:43.120 but sure Also in a way, I also wanted you 1:00:43.160 --> 1:00:45.920 to tell the the opposite of that story when it 1:00:46.000 --> 1:00:47.760 wasn't that protection ere with methad. 1:00:47.560 --> 1:00:50.800 Man, Right. I mean, so when I when I started 1:00:50.840 --> 1:00:53.720 doing A and R, I was insecure around it. Right, 1:00:53.760 --> 1:00:57.000 I'm thinking, I'm a Korean, Canadian French lip major, and 1:00:57.880 --> 1:01:00.640 do I really deserve this job of being a gatekeeper 1:01:00.640 --> 1:01:03.160 and an arbiter of a culture? Again that is not mine? Right? 1:01:03.640 --> 1:01:06.720 And so, but the way that hip hop embraced me 1:01:07.040 --> 1:01:09.960 was really fortifying and gave me a lot more confidence, 1:01:10.120 --> 1:01:12.960 but nothing more than when Wu Tang claimed me. So 1:01:13.040 --> 1:01:15.000 it was very very early on I might have met 1:01:15.040 --> 1:01:17.919 Meth once before I go to the studio to see them, 1:01:18.120 --> 1:01:19.720 and he says, Sophie, you got to see I just 1:01:19.760 --> 1:01:23.040 got my video in for method man. And so he 1:01:23.080 --> 1:01:25.880 takes me to the back lounge, whisks me past everybody, 1:01:26.000 --> 1:01:27.640 takes me to the back lounge and he sits me 1:01:27.720 --> 1:01:29.640 down and he plugs in the tape and he stands 1:01:29.680 --> 1:01:32.000 on the wall, doesn't sit with me, stands against the 1:01:32.000 --> 1:01:33.760 wall to watch me because he wants to see my 1:01:33.800 --> 1:01:36.880 response to the video, and sitting next to the television 1:01:36.960 --> 1:01:40.440 facing me. So this gentleman is not watching the screen. 1:01:40.480 --> 1:01:43.720 He's looking at me as Meth is is this guy Jamal. 1:01:43.840 --> 1:01:46.000 So the video plays and I'm super excited. I'm like, 1:01:46.000 --> 1:01:47.360 oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, because 1:01:47.360 --> 1:01:50.200 I'm already in love with Meth. And so the video 1:01:50.240 --> 1:01:53.080 plays and as soon as the video ends, he looks 1:01:53.080 --> 1:01:58.280 at me and he says, where are you from? Now? Anybody, 1:01:58.320 --> 1:02:00.600 any person of color, will tell you that's a lot question. 1:02:01.000 --> 1:02:02.480 If you ask a white person that they're going to 1:02:02.520 --> 1:02:05.840 be like, oh, I'm from Columbus right or or you 1:02:05.840 --> 1:02:08.800 know my parents are whatever. But this is this is 1:02:08.800 --> 1:02:11.880 a loaded question. So I am a petit Asian woman 1:02:12.320 --> 1:02:15.479 in the inner inner sanctum of Wu Tang, of Wu 1:02:15.480 --> 1:02:18.360 Tang's world. And it is clear to him, and I 1:02:18.360 --> 1:02:20.800 could see the calculations. It is clear to him, I'm 1:02:20.840 --> 1:02:23.600 not sleeping with any of those boys. He also knows 1:02:23.640 --> 1:02:25.440 that I don't manage any of them. At this point, 1:02:25.480 --> 1:02:27.720 I don't A and R any of them. So who 1:02:28.080 --> 1:02:31.160 is this and how did she get in? And again 1:02:31.400 --> 1:02:35.120 to this day, when I'm around Wu Tang, I am 1:02:35.160 --> 1:02:37.560 almost always the only woman in the room. And this 1:02:37.640 --> 1:02:40.080 is a very privileged place where I sit. So he 1:02:40.200 --> 1:02:43.240 keeps and so I feign innocence, and I say, well, 1:02:43.920 --> 1:02:46.720 what are you asking me? Where are you from? 1:02:47.400 --> 1:02:47.480 Well? 1:02:47.480 --> 1:02:51.000 I don't really know what that means. Where are you from? 1:02:51.680 --> 1:02:53.840 And then I broke and I said, okay, Well, if 1:02:53.840 --> 1:02:55.920 you're asking where I was born, I was born in Vancouver. 1:02:56.000 --> 1:02:57.720 My parents are Korean. If you asking me where my 1:02:57.720 --> 1:02:59.720 parents are from, there from you know, Korea, if you're 1:02:59.720 --> 1:03:02.360 asking where I live. But before I could even finish 1:03:02.400 --> 1:03:05.640 answering this in this very methodical way, Meth just flew 1:03:05.680 --> 1:03:06.240 in between us. 1:03:06.240 --> 1:03:06.320 Now. 1:03:06.320 --> 1:03:07.680 I don't know if you've ever met him in person. 1:03:07.720 --> 1:03:11.560 He is six' four and he is notoriously the nicest 1:03:11.560 --> 1:03:15.040 with his hands of The, klan and, yeah, no, no, no oh, 1:03:15.120 --> 1:03:18.200 boy no he can they can all throw the fuck. Down, 1:03:18.320 --> 1:03:21.040 yeah But meth And ghost forget about. It so he 1:03:21.560 --> 1:03:25.280 flies in between us and she just expands like The 1:03:25.360 --> 1:03:28.880 hulk and he was, like That's Sophie chang and she's 1:03:28.920 --> 1:03:31.840 down with wu. Tag she's some shallon. Motherfucker don't you 1:03:32.240 --> 1:03:35.000 ever who the fuck are you to ask her where she's? 1:03:35.000 --> 1:03:38.400 From don't you ever disrespect her? Again AND i was, 1:03:38.440 --> 1:03:42.960 like oh my, god my. God now nobody had ever 1:03:43.000 --> 1:03:46.360 defended me like, this AND i was just it was 1:03:46.480 --> 1:03:53.440 just this extraordinary. Moment but so the demonstration was. Amazing 1:03:53.480 --> 1:03:55.920 but to deconstruct in WHAT i THINK i want people 1:03:55.960 --> 1:03:59.200 to understand is he knew exactly what the fuck that 1:03:59.240 --> 1:04:00.800 guy was. Saying do you know What i'm? Saying he 1:04:00.880 --> 1:04:03.800 totally understood that it was there was there was a 1:04:03.920 --> 1:04:06.600 racial subtext to, it and there was a gender subtext to. It, 1:04:06.920 --> 1:04:09.480 right he didn't give a shit WHERE i was, from 1:04:09.640 --> 1:04:12.440 because essentially he wasn't asking a. Question he was, saying 1:04:12.880 --> 1:04:15.280 what the fuck are? You and what the fuck are? 1:04:15.280 --> 1:04:16.560 You what the fuck are you doing? Here because you 1:04:16.560 --> 1:04:19.439 don't belong. HERE i belong. Here you don't belong. Here 1:04:20.240 --> 1:04:26.440 and you, know again wanting to tell people about the 1:04:26.560 --> 1:04:29.160 humanity Of Wu. Tang, Now meth has known this guy 1:04:29.280 --> 1:04:32.360 For i'm sure a long ass. Time this might be 1:04:32.400 --> 1:04:35.720 the second or third time he's met, me and his 1:04:35.800 --> 1:04:38.680 feeling was, like, Nah, bie we're not fucking doing that 1:04:38.800 --> 1:04:42.600 because she's. Ours and WHAT i say About Wu tang is, that, 1:04:42.640 --> 1:04:46.280 LOOK i had several friendships in hip hop and enduring 1:04:46.320 --> 1:04:48.720 ones THAT i have to this day Before Wu. TANG 1:04:49.240 --> 1:04:54.560 i was embraced AND i was, welcomed But Wu tang claimed. 1:04:54.600 --> 1:04:57.160 Me so it's a thing that you're talking about to 1:04:57.160 --> 1:05:00.560 mere Right, Like so What i'm saying is that everybody 1:05:00.640 --> 1:05:02.200 knew that they were going to be, huge and there 1:05:02.200 --> 1:05:04.760 were hordes and hordes and hordes of people surrounding, them 1:05:04.960 --> 1:05:06.640 and for whatever, reason they just went. 1:05:06.680 --> 1:05:11.120 Like, this you're coming with. 1:05:11.200 --> 1:05:14.040 Us we're keeping her right. Here AND i feel that 1:05:14.080 --> 1:05:16.720 way to this day THAT i will never ever leave 1:05:16.800 --> 1:05:17.560 that breast. 1:05:17.600 --> 1:05:18.680 Pocket and CAN i get. 1:05:18.520 --> 1:05:23.840 People right, now layah, Me Bill, Sugar steve and Other 1:05:23.920 --> 1:05:26.280 bill And fonte are claiming. 1:05:26.320 --> 1:05:27.400 You, OH i appreciate. 1:05:27.480 --> 1:05:28.480 That that's. 1:05:28.520 --> 1:05:31.840 Beautiful we'll protect you CAN i also just make a 1:05:31.840 --> 1:05:33.520 point to F y because some people might be, thinking, 1:05:33.560 --> 1:05:35.360 oh she's she's The asian woman and the. Click so 1:05:35.400 --> 1:05:37.680 she's the one that brought the awareness to all the. Colleges, 1:05:37.720 --> 1:05:38.680 no can you clear? THAT? 1:05:38.840 --> 1:05:40.760 U oh Yeah. No and first of, all WHEN i say, 1:05:40.760 --> 1:05:42.640 That I'M i was in love with math is the 1:05:42.720 --> 1:05:45.560 platonic love of my? Life, yeah because. 1:05:45.560 --> 1:05:46.280 Yeah he's been married. 1:05:46.320 --> 1:05:49.240 Forever, yeah and he and his Wife tamika is just this, 1:05:49.360 --> 1:05:51.920 gorgeous luminous creature THAT i. Adorre, no he's a platonic 1:05:52.000 --> 1:05:54.200 love of my. Love, no, no, no, no, no. No in, fact, 1:05:54.560 --> 1:05:57.760 no they grew up Watching Kung fu. Movies it was their. 1:05:58.000 --> 1:06:01.600 Escape but they also you, know the themes of brotherhood 1:06:01.640 --> 1:06:05.560 and loyalty and defiance and oppression really resonated with. Them 1:06:05.840 --> 1:06:08.280 and so again going back to, It i'm a White 1:06:08.280 --> 1:06:10.000 i'm a yellow girl growing up in a white. WORLD 1:06:10.000 --> 1:06:11.760 i want to be. WHITE i come To New, YORK 1:06:12.160 --> 1:06:14.160 i get you, KNOW i get into the hip hop, 1:06:14.160 --> 1:06:16.160 world AND i understand that there's another way to be 1:06:16.240 --> 1:06:18.919 and that is proud of who you. Are and Then 1:06:19.160 --> 1:06:22.320 Wu tang embraces me and it is the first time 1:06:22.640 --> 1:06:26.760 THAT i truly see the beauty and the profundity and 1:06:26.800 --> 1:06:29.120 the power of my culture BECAUSE i see it through their. 1:06:29.120 --> 1:06:32.240 Eyes that's. Amazing because they introduced me To John wu 1:06:32.280 --> 1:06:35.040 And Chaalian. Fat, wow this is the love of my. 1:06:35.080 --> 1:06:42.040 Life this is my life and kung fu. Movies so before, that. 1:06:42.240 --> 1:06:45.600 Before, then none of the folk you Weren't saturday, afternoons. 1:06:45.280 --> 1:06:47.560 None of, it because it was total cultural. Denial for. Me, 1:06:48.040 --> 1:06:51.040 wow it was cultural denial and it was cultural. Rebellion 1:06:51.520 --> 1:06:54.280 and SO i start watching kung fu movies with my Girlfriend, 1:06:54.280 --> 1:06:57.520 mariam who's time when He's. American we're, like let's starty Kung. 1:06:57.560 --> 1:07:00.000 Fu so we go around and we're. Looking we're looking 1:07:00.080 --> 1:07:01.800 at all these different schools and then we hear there's 1:07:01.800 --> 1:07:04.280 a shallon monk teaching kung. Fu and that's that's like 1:07:04.360 --> 1:07:07.920 hearing that quest love is teaching giving drum, lessons, right 1:07:08.200 --> 1:07:09.720 or it's like looking here in The Tiger woods is 1:07:09.720 --> 1:07:11.360 going to teach you golf down the. Street we're like, 1:07:11.440 --> 1:07:14.720 What so we hunt him down and we find him 1:07:14.760 --> 1:07:16.240 and that we go in, there we talk to. Him 1:07:16.240 --> 1:07:18.160 he Speaks mander and she Speaks mander and he speaks No. 1:07:18.200 --> 1:07:20.720 ENGLISH i don't Speak. Mandarin AND i go home that 1:07:20.800 --> 1:07:22.120 night AND i call my parents AND i, SAID i 1:07:22.200 --> 1:07:24.560 met the Man i'm going to marry. TODAY i knew, 1:07:24.920 --> 1:07:29.480 empirically empirically and. Absolutely and THEN i left the music. 1:07:29.520 --> 1:07:32.040 BUSINESS i stopped managing dirty hard right out of the. 1:07:32.120 --> 1:07:35.000 Music you said he's A shallon, monk and they, said. 1:07:35.280 --> 1:07:37.080 They, said they were, like hang on a. Second my dad's, 1:07:37.120 --> 1:07:38.440 like hang on a. Second he looks. Up he's, Like 1:07:38.440 --> 1:07:40.160 shallon monks can. MARRY i don't know what the fuck. 1:07:40.240 --> 1:07:43.080 REFERENCE i don't know what. Reference But Bomshi, Chang god, 1:07:43.120 --> 1:07:45.120 rest his soul was right there with his crazy. Daughter 1:07:45.560 --> 1:07:49.760 and SO i leave the music. BUSINESS i HAVE i 1:07:49.840 --> 1:07:50.720 don't even think about. 1:07:50.760 --> 1:07:51.040 IT i. 1:07:51.240 --> 1:07:54.280 Run his name is shri Yen. MING i Run Yen ming's. 1:07:54.280 --> 1:07:56.720 Temple he's a thirty fourth Generation Shalon. Monk he has 1:07:56.720 --> 1:07:59.120 a vision that he wants to replicate The Shallon temple In. 1:07:59.160 --> 1:08:02.200 AMERICA i introduce him To Wu. Tang so THIS i. 1:08:02.240 --> 1:08:05.760 DID i introduce an Actual shalon mulk To Wu. TANG 1:08:05.880 --> 1:08:08.520 i also was the person who orchestrated and planned and 1:08:08.560 --> 1:08:12.440 produced the tour that Brought riza To Shallon. Temple and 1:08:12.480 --> 1:08:14.600 he was the first artist in fifteen hundred years to 1:08:14.600 --> 1:08:16.880 ever perform in front Of Shallon. Temple also took him 1:08:16.880 --> 1:08:19.400 To Wu Tang mountain where the abbot Of Wu tang 1:08:19.439 --> 1:08:22.320 clan met the abbot Of Wu Tang. Mountain and SO 1:08:22.520 --> 1:08:26.280 i created those historical. Moments but had it not been 1:08:26.320 --> 1:08:29.360 For Wu Tang, CLAN i wouldn't have the two extraordinary 1:08:29.439 --> 1:08:31.800 children THAT i do right. NOW i wouldn't have an 1:08:31.840 --> 1:08:35.000 almost a twenty five year practice Of shallan kung fu 1:08:35.080 --> 1:08:36.720 THAT i did BEFORE i came. Here and that's WHY 1:08:36.720 --> 1:08:40.880 i was so. Hungry SO i am eternally grateful To 1:08:40.920 --> 1:08:47.240 Wu tang because they brought me back to myself in 1:08:47.320 --> 1:08:54.080 the most essential and important and critical. Way and so 1:08:54.320 --> 1:08:56.720 in going back to myself again and going through these 1:08:56.800 --> 1:09:00.200 chambers with, them they know they brought me around to 1:09:00.280 --> 1:09:03.559 my own. Heritage and you know what's extraordinary is That 1:09:03.600 --> 1:09:06.360 meth said this to. Me he, said you, know in 1:09:06.400 --> 1:09:09.479 a funny, way we kind of introduced you back To asian. 1:09:09.520 --> 1:09:13.120 Culture AND i was, like how he's so ASTUTE i 1:09:13.160 --> 1:09:15.599 HAVE I meth is like my. Son he's a he's 1:09:15.640 --> 1:09:19.040 a piss so he is super in tune with energy 1:09:19.080 --> 1:09:22.200 and he's deeply empathetic and he knew that in the 1:09:22.240 --> 1:09:24.400 same way that he knew When jamal said where are you? 1:09:24.439 --> 1:09:27.280 From he understood that this is a hostile. State this 1:09:27.320 --> 1:09:29.040 is this is not a, question it's a hostile. 1:09:29.080 --> 1:09:34.720 Statement, wow, man that's. 1:09:35.320 --> 1:09:35.599 Stop. 1:09:35.640 --> 1:09:38.439 Playing of, course, Yes Method, man we want you on, 1:09:38.520 --> 1:09:44.519 this BUT i think stop. Gushing if we Get Method 1:09:44.560 --> 1:09:46.200 man booked on the, show she's gonna come dressed like. 1:09:49.920 --> 1:09:50.519 Have you met him in? 1:09:50.600 --> 1:09:53.600 Person mathe like once that they get. 1:09:53.920 --> 1:09:58.880 Interviewed we gotta have method on just as head dressed 1:09:58.920 --> 1:09:59.680 up like she did for the. 1:09:59.680 --> 1:10:02.680 Lin she has a wife And i'm just trying to 1:10:02.680 --> 1:10:03.639 Bring lenny back to the other. 1:10:03.680 --> 1:10:06.520 Side, Anyway, mary. 1:10:08.840 --> 1:10:10.599 And she a little older if she got. 1:10:10.520 --> 1:10:13.360 A girlfriend a little older than you, anyway and she 1:10:13.400 --> 1:10:14.559 ain't been this coloring a long. 1:10:14.600 --> 1:10:16.520 Time, Hello SORRY. 1:10:16.240 --> 1:10:16.720 I was telling. 1:10:16.720 --> 1:10:22.559 You sorry, Anyway, sophia we can talk. Forever we can talk, 1:10:22.600 --> 1:10:27.040 forever but we we have to wrap it. UP i 1:10:27.120 --> 1:10:28.280 really appreciate. 1:10:27.840 --> 1:10:30.559 You coming on the show and and and sharing your. 1:10:30.439 --> 1:10:32.680 Story opening the door for all My asian girlfriends who 1:10:32.680 --> 1:10:35.000 are now manager shout out Since Jennya, zuomi all My 1:10:35.200 --> 1:10:39.599 korean girlfriends shout, out And Don white like, yes doing. 1:10:39.640 --> 1:10:40.040 It thank. 1:10:40.080 --> 1:10:40.960 YOU i forgot my. 1:10:41.160 --> 1:10:44.559 Man your Manager's. 1:10:44.560 --> 1:10:48.240 ASIAN i got nine. Managers, yes, Woman, yeah what's your? 1:10:48.320 --> 1:10:48.519 Name? 1:10:48.640 --> 1:10:49.960 John she even taught me how to. 1:10:50.040 --> 1:10:56.559 Drive oh my, god we taught yay taught me how 1:10:56.600 --> 1:10:59.559 to drive, anyway thank, you thank you for having. ME 1:10:59.720 --> 1:11:02.720 i was so excited for this conversation BECAUSE i was, 1:11:02.760 --> 1:11:08.960 like your mind and your historical, knowledge like that's kind 1:11:08.960 --> 1:11:12.080 of your left, brain you, know like That. Wikipedia but 1:11:12.120 --> 1:11:17.160 then there's also this, amazing insane creative challenge and, all 1:11:17.320 --> 1:11:19.439 and there just aren't that many people like. That so 1:11:19.520 --> 1:11:21.200 thank you, WELL i thank you so. 1:11:21.280 --> 1:11:21.840 YEAH i took a. 1:11:21.880 --> 1:11:32.519 Compliment, Guy i'm in therapy now. BREAKING i wanted to 1:11:32.600 --> 1:11:36.000 run out the door right now like Ques. No, well 1:11:36.000 --> 1:11:37.800 thank you very much for coming on the. Show ladies and, 1:11:37.840 --> 1:11:40.479 gentlemen that's another episode Of Quest Love. Supreme thank you very. 1:11:40.520 --> 1:11:49.160 Much her audio book in The room exclusively On audible 1:11:49.320 --> 1:11:52.200 all right on to Be Having, Sugar Steve layah And 1:11:52.439 --> 1:11:53.240 Boss bill and On. 1:11:53.320 --> 1:11:58.560 Paid bill And Fine. Diklob thank you very. Much this 1:11:58.640 --> 1:12:00.720 is another episode Of quest Pre. People see you on 1:12:00.720 --> 1:12:01.599 the next go. Round thank. 1:12:01.640 --> 1:12:14.120 You for more podcasts From, iHeartRadio visit The iHeartRadio, App apple, 1:12:14.160 --> 1:12:16.519 podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite. 1:12:16.520 --> 1:12:16.840 Shows