WEBVTT - Comey Says Trump `Morally Unfit’ in First Interview

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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<v Speaker 1>day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

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<v Speaker 1>important legal news of the day. You can find more

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<v Speaker 1>episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud

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<v Speaker 1>and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. President Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 1>litten to former FBI Director James Comey in tweets today,

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<v Speaker 1>saying he drafted his exoneration of Hillary Clinton based on

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<v Speaker 1>political polls that showed her winning the election. It's the

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<v Speaker 1>latest swap of Twitter allegations between the two following Comey's

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<v Speaker 1>first television interview to promote his book last night on

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<v Speaker 1>ABC Comy seemed to hold nothing back in the interview.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think he's medically unfit to be president. I

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<v Speaker 1>think he's morally unfit to be president. Joining me is

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<v Speaker 1>Bill Gavin, former assistant director of the FBI. Bill, what

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<v Speaker 1>part of the interview surprised you most or concerned you most? June.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that anybody that makes those kinds of statements

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<v Speaker 1>on the moral fitness of an individual, that kind of

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<v Speaker 1>concerns me a bit more than anything I think, and

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<v Speaker 1>the moral sitness of a sitting president does his public

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<v Speaker 1>assault sometimes crosses into the salacious. Does that undermine the

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<v Speaker 1>status of the FBI. I think that what both individuals

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<v Speaker 1>are doing on both sides of the fence, throwing rocks

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<v Speaker 1>at each other and and and making statements that to

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<v Speaker 1>me a kind of unprofessional. The bottom line is it

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<v Speaker 1>tends to when when the comments made against the director

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<v Speaker 1>of the FBI and they made from the President, they

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<v Speaker 1>tend to be believed by the American public and in

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<v Speaker 1>the cast an aspersion upon all FBI employees. And I

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<v Speaker 1>can guarantee June that that of the bureau people, men

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<v Speaker 1>and women go to work every single day and do

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<v Speaker 1>an outstanding job and give their lives and limbs for

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<v Speaker 1>for the organization of the country. This uh is uh,

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<v Speaker 1>It's not. It's more than just static in the background.

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<v Speaker 1>It is a diversion from what the FBI is all about.

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<v Speaker 1>And I really believe that maybe this auto stop, and

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<v Speaker 1>we saw the stop, both sides auto start acting as

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<v Speaker 1>adults rather than the kids in a school yard. Does

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<v Speaker 1>this book Weekend call me his credibility as a potential

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<v Speaker 1>witness against the president in the Muller investigation or elsewhere.

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't read the book, and um, Um, no doubt will,

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<v Speaker 1>But I don't know whether or not it will. It'll

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<v Speaker 1>uh diminish his ability to be a witness any place.

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<v Speaker 1>It all depends upon what he has to say in

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<v Speaker 1>how the facts support what he has to say, and

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<v Speaker 1>whether or not the facts that he talks about are

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<v Speaker 1>classified or not. And I think that's being looked at

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<v Speaker 1>in great depth right now looking at his interview and

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<v Speaker 1>at the excerpts from his book, since we haven't had

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<v Speaker 1>a chance to read it yet. Um, do you see

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<v Speaker 1>a concern, a growing concern or uh sort of underpinning

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<v Speaker 1>of a concern that the president might be open to

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<v Speaker 1>different kinds of risks because of his connections that were

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<v Speaker 1>described in the book. Then all remains to be seen.

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<v Speaker 1>I know that with Bob Mueller's investigation, we have to

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<v Speaker 1>wait to see how that how that unfolds. I know

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<v Speaker 1>that everybody wants it to end immediately. The President wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to end months ago. Uh. It's something that's going to

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<v Speaker 1>go on until Bob Mueller arrives at a conclusion and

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<v Speaker 1>addresses all effects that are presented to him. The other

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<v Speaker 1>important thing, Joan, is going to be the report of

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<v Speaker 1>the Inspector General and I think that will be a

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<v Speaker 1>real um in the event that will be on the

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<v Speaker 1>forefront for quite a while and present some difficulties for

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<v Speaker 1>both the for both the Bureau and in the Department

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<v Speaker 1>of Justice. Bill. How does the timing of this book

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<v Speaker 1>tour and the publication of the book play here with

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<v Speaker 1>Muller's investigation and with that Inspector General report you just mentioned.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems to be coming at at a really sort

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<v Speaker 1>of critical time. Sometimes we release a book like that

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<v Speaker 1>in our own interest rather than the overall interest, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's probably what's happened in this particular case

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<v Speaker 1>to June Um. It's it's it's a very difficult set

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<v Speaker 1>of circumstances right now. And I think the other two

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<v Speaker 1>things the i S report in the Bob Mullin's report

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<v Speaker 1>will be important reports. Comy stood by his handling of

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<v Speaker 1>the FBI's investigation into Hillary Clinton's email server, and you

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<v Speaker 1>know the way he he brought it out on several occasions,

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<v Speaker 1>one right before the election. Did you agree with his

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<v Speaker 1>explanation for his rather unusual actions for an FBI director.

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<v Speaker 1>One thing that I totally disagreed with Bob when when

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<v Speaker 1>the director came out with the conclusion that he reached. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>Jim Comey said that, Uh, he really painted a picture

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<v Speaker 1>of Hillary Clinton, UM, getting ready to be indicted and

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<v Speaker 1>then said, you know, there's no way he could do that.

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<v Speaker 1>My biggest concern and and the biggest fault that I find,

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<v Speaker 1>is the Jim Comey rendered a prosecutive opinion when he

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<v Speaker 1>was the head of the arguably the best investigative organization

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<v Speaker 1>in the world, and being the head of the investigation

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<v Speaker 1>investigative organization does not permit you to render a prosecutive opinion.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that's where he crossed the line, and he

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<v Speaker 1>does not to this day. He doesn't think that he

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<v Speaker 1>crossed the line at that point. I happened to think

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<v Speaker 1>that he did. Should have put that whole thing right

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<v Speaker 1>back into the Department of Justice and let the Attorney

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<v Speaker 1>General handle whatever it is that ensued from that. If

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<v Speaker 1>she didn't want to handle it, Uh, it's on her,

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<v Speaker 1>It's not on the Bureau. And this is what really

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<v Speaker 1>started this whole catastrophe that's going on right now. Bill,

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<v Speaker 1>we have about forty five seconds here. Could you just

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<v Speaker 1>explain what impact all this has had in your opinion

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<v Speaker 1>on the standing and credibility of the FBI. I well, June,

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<v Speaker 1>I think it all depends when how you how you

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<v Speaker 1>look at it. My own personal opinion is that there

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<v Speaker 1>are a number of people six seven people who betrayed

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<v Speaker 1>the trust that was given to them in the FBI.

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<v Speaker 1>That's my own opinion, and I just based it on

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<v Speaker 1>what I know, as the rest of the public knows

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<v Speaker 1>of the men and women in the FBI do an

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<v Speaker 1>outstanding job every single day, go to work. Their badges

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<v Speaker 1>are not tarnished by this event. The only badges that

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<v Speaker 1>are tarnished are the individuals who betrayed their trust in

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<v Speaker 1>in what they were supposed to do. Thank you, Bill,

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<v Speaker 1>We have to leave it there. Everyone certainly agrees with that.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks Bill Gavin. That's he's a former assistant director of

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<v Speaker 1>the FBI. The Supreme Court is back in session today.

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<v Speaker 1>The Justice has rejected an appeal from former Illinois Governor

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<v Speaker 1>Rod Bloyevitch, who went to prison in twelve joining us

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<v Speaker 1>as Bloomberg New Supreme Court reporter Greg's store. Greg tell

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<v Speaker 1>us about the latest Blogoyevitch appeal and the Justice is

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<v Speaker 1>refusal to take it. Hi June, Yes, Former Illinois Governor

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<v Speaker 1>Rob Bligoyevitch for the second time, tried to get his conviction,

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<v Speaker 1>his corruption conviction overturned by the Supreme Court. Uh. Both

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<v Speaker 1>times the court rejected Bolgoievitch. His argument was essentially that

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<v Speaker 1>so he was convicted of of things like um promising

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<v Speaker 1>a Senate seat in exchange for campaign contributions, and he

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<v Speaker 1>argued that the jury in his case wasn't required to

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<v Speaker 1>find that he explicitly promised the Senate seat in exchange

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<v Speaker 1>for those campaign contributions. The Justice Department told the court

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<v Speaker 1>not to hear the case and and they said, look,

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<v Speaker 1>there's nothing magical about the word explicit. Here. The jury

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<v Speaker 1>found there really was a quid pro quo one thing,

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<v Speaker 1>the contributions in exchange for the Senate seat. And that's enough.

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<v Speaker 1>And the Supreme Court decided it didn't need to interview

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<v Speaker 1>in the case and did need to reconsider his conviction. Alright,

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<v Speaker 1>So let's turn to something that a lot of people

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<v Speaker 1>are watching, and that's arguments tomorrow. What's at stake billions

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<v Speaker 1>of dollars in the Supreme Court case with a battle

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<v Speaker 1>over online sales tax. Tell us more about that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>this this is something that's familiar to almost anybody who

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<v Speaker 1>shops online. Which is that if you buy something online,

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<v Speaker 1>depending on where you are and who you're buying it from,

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<v Speaker 1>you might have to pay sales taxes and you might

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<v Speaker 1>not have to pay pay sales taxes. And the reason

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<v Speaker 1>is that back in the Supreme Court, dealing with a

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<v Speaker 1>case involving catalog Sales said, Sales said that, Uh, if

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<v Speaker 1>the retailer does not have a physical presence in the state,

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<v Speaker 1>so in other words, doesn't have a store, doesn't have

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<v Speaker 1>a warehouse, doesn't have an office, they can't be forced

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<v Speaker 1>to collect sales taxes. So a retailer like Overstock, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't have any physical presence in the state of Maryland, Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>they're for Overstock doesn't have to And if I'm in

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<v Speaker 1>Maryland buying something to be for shipment to Maryland, Overstock

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't Overstock doesn't have to charge me the six percent

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<v Speaker 1>sales tax that would otherwise we do. So, Greg, this

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<v Speaker 1>is a really unusual case because the state of South

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<v Speaker 1>Dakota enacted the law that's that issue here so that

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<v Speaker 1>it would be challenged at the Supreme Court. Explain a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit more about that. Yeah, in fact, the state

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<v Speaker 1>of South Dakota knew that its law, which which imposes

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<v Speaker 1>taxes on any retailer that are requires and neglect sales

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<v Speaker 1>taxes if they meet a certain threshold of sales. H

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<v Speaker 1>South Dakota knew that that law would be struck down

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<v Speaker 1>under that Supreme Court decision, which is called quill, So

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<v Speaker 1>they actually um passed the law and and said to

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<v Speaker 1>the lower courts, look, we know you're gonna have to

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<v Speaker 1>strike down our law. Go ahead and do it because

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<v Speaker 1>we want to get up to the Supreme Court and

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<v Speaker 1>we want to ask them to overturn that decisions so

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<v Speaker 1>we can tax all these out of state retailers. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's exactly where we're are right now. So the states

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<v Speaker 1>are trying to overturn a twenty six year old Supreme

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<v Speaker 1>Court ruling. What is the response of the retailers? So

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<v Speaker 1>the um depends on which retailers you're talking because it's

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the online it's it's a totally different world

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<v Speaker 1>than it was six years ago as far as online. Yes, so,

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<v Speaker 1>so traditional retailers, UM, the ones that are have brick

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<v Speaker 1>and mortar stores are saying, look, it is time to

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<v Speaker 1>overturn that could decision because it's an unfair advantage to

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<v Speaker 1>the wayfarers and the overstocks of the world that they

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<v Speaker 1>don't have to charge taxes, but the department store down

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<v Speaker 1>the street has to. And for that matter, although this

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<v Speaker 1>is kind of complicated, a company like Amazon sometimes has

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<v Speaker 1>to collect taxes and generally generally does um. And they

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<v Speaker 1>say that distinction in this day and age where economic

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<v Speaker 1>presence in the state is really what matters, not whether

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<v Speaker 1>they have you know, a physical building there. Uh, And

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<v Speaker 1>that's why they say that in this modern age it

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<v Speaker 1>should be overturned. And what about the online retailers, that's

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<v Speaker 1>I should have I should have narrowed the focus there. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the online retailers say, look, we have set up this world.

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<v Speaker 1>Everybody has come to rely on this notion that if

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<v Speaker 1>you don't have a physical presence, you don't have to

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<v Speaker 1>collect the sales taxes. And they say that the burden

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<v Speaker 1>on them, and particular very small retailers could be immense.

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<v Speaker 1>They talk about their being more than twelve thousand taxing

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<v Speaker 1>jurisdictions out there, and you have to figure out the

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<v Speaker 1>taxes for each of those, and sometimes it's hard to

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<v Speaker 1>figure out what your product actually is with a particular

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<v Speaker 1>jurisdictions tax code. So you know, is uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a piece of clothing you create, is it is it

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<v Speaker 1>a coat or is it a shirt? Maybe it's not clear,

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<v Speaker 1>and maybe those are tax differently in a particular particular state.

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<v Speaker 1>So they are basically saying to the court, Um, you

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<v Speaker 1>don't you should be the ones to put this burden

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<v Speaker 1>on us. If anymoy is going to do it, Congress

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<v Speaker 1>ought to be the one to do it. So Greg,

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<v Speaker 1>just to conclude, we have less than a minute here,

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<v Speaker 1>But there are three justices Clarence Thomas, Anthony Kennedy, and

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<v Speaker 1>Neil Gorc a sort of surprising trio who have already

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<v Speaker 1>expressed doubts about the president. Yeah, and they did it

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<v Speaker 1>in different contexts. So so, Uh, Justice Kennedy basically convited

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<v Speaker 1>South the South Dakota to do what it did here

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<v Speaker 1>in a couple of years ago. In the case he

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<v Speaker 1>really called into question whether the Quill ruling makes any

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<v Speaker 1>sense in this modern age. Uh. Justice course has said

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<v Speaker 1>something similar when he was an Appeals Court judge, and

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<v Speaker 1>Justice Thomas essentially thanks this entire constitutional doctrine, which is

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<v Speaker 1>known as they don't fall asleep here the dormant commerce clause.

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<v Speaker 1>He thinks that's an entirely illegitimate doctrine, and the Court

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<v Speaker 1>shouldn't be in the business of striking down state laws

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<v Speaker 1>on those grounds. Well, I'm sure a lot of law

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<v Speaker 1>students would be happy to see the dormant clad commerce

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<v Speaker 1>clause go away. Thanks so much, Greg, and of course

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<v Speaker 1>you'll be reporting on this tomorrow from the Supreme Court.

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<v Speaker 1>That's Bloomberg New Supreme Court reporter Greg's store. Thanks for

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<v Speaker 1>Lizz listening to the Bloomberg Law podcast. You can subscribe

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<v Speaker 1>on Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I'm June Brosso. This

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<v Speaker 1>is Bloomberg