1 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: Foot fetishes, cuckolding, dirty talking, paddling, spanking and punishment, stop masturbating, caning, missionary, 2 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:17,200 Speaker 1: sex bug fetishes, hot wifing, powerplate, impact plate, gigantest fetish. 3 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,439 Speaker 1: A lot of men are wearing women's panties. Some men 4 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: enjoy wearing chastity cages. I'm kinky. This is what I'm into. 5 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 2: Anything can be a turn on, and this week we're 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:40,240 Speaker 2: unlocking our deepest desires. I'm hopewordered and welcome to Boys Over, 7 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 2: a space where we're learning and unlearning all the myths 8 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 2: we're taught about love and relationships. As we've discussed, Voiceover 9 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 2: has never been about just giving up sex. Any period 10 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 2: of time I've spent abstaining from sex has been with 11 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 2: the purpose of coming back to it with more intention 12 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: to understand what I really want, what I really like, 13 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 2: and who I really want to experience it with. So 14 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 2: in trying to figure all that out, I want to 15 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:22,960 Speaker 2: talk to some people who can get into the nitty 16 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 2: gritty of what's really out there in the world of sex. 17 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 2: Enter the Kink Consultant. Amanda Dames is a certified sex 18 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,479 Speaker 2: and relationship coach who works with people to embrace their 19 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 2: sexuality and explore their own desires. I've never really considered 20 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:47,680 Speaker 2: myself a kinky person, but after talking to Amanda, I 21 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:52,680 Speaker 2: realized that embracing kink is as simple as just understanding 22 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:58,440 Speaker 2: what turns you on. Hi Amanda, Hi, how are you. 23 00:01:58,560 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: I'm doing really well? 24 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 2: Thank good. I would love for you to kind of 25 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 2: introduce yourself. You are a kink consultant. What does that 26 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: mean exactly? Like? Walk me through what it looks like 27 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: having a kink consultation with someone? Sure? 28 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,760 Speaker 1: So how it works is people find me on social media. 29 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 1: Usually I offer a twenty minute consult where I talk 30 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:19,680 Speaker 1: to them about what it is they're looking for, why 31 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: they want to work with a coach, and usually one 32 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: or both of the partners want to increase the spiciness 33 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: in the bedroom. One of them might be super kinky 34 00:02:27,320 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: or even have a fetish, and they want their partner 35 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: to better understand it, and they come to me to 36 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,959 Speaker 1: help guide them both through it. So what I do 37 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: is I work with clients over maybe ten to twenty sessions. 38 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: I work with them individually. I understand and break down 39 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: their own wants and desires, and I work with them 40 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: to say, like, what are your core desires. What's your 41 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: hottest erotic movie? Talk to me about it, and we 42 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: basically break it down in a way that they can 43 00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: communicate to the other person what they're looking for. And 44 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: the way I describe it is, you're building a bridge 45 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,000 Speaker 1: towards each other. Let's figure out where the bridge needs 46 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: to be built, and let's start doing that together. 47 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: What's a kink and what's a fetish? Like, what are 48 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:02,880 Speaker 2: the differences between those things? 49 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: Yes, okay, good, that's a great question. A kink is 50 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: sort of a nice to have outside of missionary sex 51 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: type of thing. So kink is actually a really large spectrum, 52 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: and I have this feeling everyone falls on some part 53 00:03:15,760 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: of it, at least a little bit. Like even if 54 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,119 Speaker 1: you like hearing good girl during sex, that's kinky. It's 55 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 1: almost anything outside of missionary sex, wow or a China sex. 56 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: I know, I am pretty kinky. Yeah, okay, So basically 57 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: kink is like a lot broader. It's so. 58 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, A lot of people don't realize they're kinky 59 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: or doing kinky things. 60 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: Right, I know. Why do you think that there is 61 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: this feeling of like I don't want to say I'm kinky, 62 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 2: and there's maybe this cultural understanding of kink that's taboo. Yeah, 63 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 2: why do you think that is? 64 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: Okay? I think that kink because there is so little 65 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: education around it, we struggle to understand what it is 66 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: and what it isn't. And what I will say is, 67 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: if there's not consent and negotiation, it's not kink, it's 68 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: just somebody being an asshole. There's so much media shame 69 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 1: around kink and being different. I think we're all taught 70 00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: to assimilate and just fit in, so anything outside of 71 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: that is not okay. I also think that we're puritanical, right, 72 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: So anything outside of what is quote unquote normal is wrong, right, 73 00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: And I think that everything kinky falls under that as well. 74 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 2: Okay, Now, what's the difference with fetish? 75 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: A fetish is a need to have. It's not a 76 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: nice to have. It means you've never orgasmed, you've never 77 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,799 Speaker 1: achieved it without having that in your life. So, for example, 78 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: I have never had an orgasm without thinking about being 79 00:04:35,560 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: disciplined or spanking. So during sex, I'm running a fantasy 80 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,479 Speaker 1: in my head, or I need someone dirty talking to 81 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 1: me about it, or I need to have just gone 82 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: through a scene where I was punished or spanked. 83 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 2: Okay, with your clients, do you mostly work with couples 84 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 2: or individuals both? 85 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: My business shifts, like right now, I've gotten an influx 86 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 1: of a lot of couples in the last five or 87 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 1: six months, but early on I was really working with individuals. 88 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: So I have clients who are submissive men, and they 89 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,000 Speaker 1: have hidden this from their partners for a really long time. 90 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: Sometimes they want to engage in chastity. Sometimes they want 91 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: to be sexually submissive to their wives. 92 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 2: What's engaging in chastity? Okay? 93 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: So chastity is an enforced way to not have sex. 94 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, I've dabbled. Maybe have you ever put knowing? 95 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 2: I've never put a chastity belt on, but I do 96 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 2: love to say no thank you. 97 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: So some men enjoy wearing chastity cages, and chastity is 98 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 1: really big right. 99 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 2: Now, Orman, Yes, it's all in there. 100 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a cage on their penis. 101 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 2: Actually, I do have a friend whose boyfriend has one. 102 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's super common. 103 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,360 Speaker 2: She found out he was cheating on her and made 104 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: him wear one. 105 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 1: I love that, and I'm assuming it was consensual. It 106 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 1: was considual. They both really liked it, like he didn't 107 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: wake up with a cage on one morning, and. 108 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 2: Honestly, you probably would have loved that. Sure. 109 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 1: So for a lot of women, we haven't been raised 110 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 1: to take on the leadership position in a partnership. Okay, 111 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: there was no Disney princess who was like, I'm in 112 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: charge and you're going to do what I say, right, 113 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: So I work with a lot of women to say like, Okay, 114 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: this is how you can step into your power. This 115 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: is how you can step into your dominant energy and 116 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: play with this power exchange with your partner. And for 117 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,800 Speaker 1: the husband, I really have to sometimes talk him back 118 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:18,920 Speaker 1: a little bit because he's had this fantasy of what 119 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 1: he's wanted, and then I have to remind him you're 120 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 1: in partnership. We're working with your wife or your girlfriend 121 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: to be exactly what you want her to be. But 122 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: also you have to step up in different ways too. 123 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: So I work with both people and the couple. 124 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 2: Do you get to see their life kind of expand 125 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 2: a little like, I'm sure when you're working with an 126 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 2: individual like this entire process, but I'm sure it'd be 127 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:40,560 Speaker 2: really empowering in other ways. 128 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: It absolutely is. I hear them standing up for themselves 129 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,279 Speaker 1: at work, they start to pay attention to what they want. 130 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: They improve and deepen their friendships with people because they're 131 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: able to put up boundaries. That's an interesting one teaching 132 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 1: people boundaries totally, because when I teach them what boundaries are, 133 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: I just warn them. I'm like, you're gonna have some 134 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,599 Speaker 1: knee jerk reactions. You're going to be feeling this out. 135 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:00,440 Speaker 1: Sometimes you might stretch a little too far and put 136 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 1: up too many boundaries. So you got to navigate this, 137 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:04,839 Speaker 1: And I just warn them this is going to happen. 138 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 1: You just got to go with the flow and be 139 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: aware of it and check in with yourself. 140 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 2: Yes, always be checking kink consultant. 141 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:12,400 Speaker 1: Yes, that's the hope. 142 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 2: Something we were talking about is like when to communicate 143 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 2: the kink you want. And I think that, like, if 144 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 2: you're communicating what you want during sex or after sex, 145 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 2: that can be a really difficult and vulnerable time because 146 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 2: absolutely you're in bed and you're naked, and then you 147 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 2: tell them what you want and they say no, Like, 148 00:07:30,600 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 2: oh my god, You're like so vulnerable, and that rejection 149 00:07:33,640 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 2: feels so much more intense. So if someone were to 150 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:40,080 Speaker 2: communicate their kinks, when is the best time to do it. 151 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 2: How's the best way to do it? Is it on 152 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 2: a date? Is it in the bedroom? Like? What's your 153 00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:45,239 Speaker 2: advice there? 154 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,760 Speaker 1: It depends on how important it is to you. It's 155 00:07:47,800 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: in my dating profiles that I am kinky, right, because 156 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: it is one of the most important things to me. 157 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: It's obviously ten percent or five percent of who I am, 158 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 1: a little bit more now than I do this work 159 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: full time, right, But I bring it up early but 160 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 1: off some times I'll say, if it is part of 161 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: your sexual relationship, I would bring it up when you're 162 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 1: discussing sex. And I know a lot of people still 163 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: just jump into bed together and there's no discussions beforehand. 164 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: But I'd advocate for having a conversation beforehand before you 165 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: get into the bedroom together. For sure. For the couples 166 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: I work with, I like to recommend that you start 167 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: with a conversation, lead with curiosity. You ask your partner, Hey, 168 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 1: are there any fantasies you'd like to explore, and then 169 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: that's a perfect segue for you to be able to 170 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: introduce your fantasies as well. 171 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 2: I have one good friend who has a difficult sex 172 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 2: life with her husband. Like I've asked for the same thing, like, 173 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 2: what are your fantasies? Have you ever had one? And 174 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 2: she's so like, I don't know, Like I feel like 175 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 2: a lot of women, maybe I've never had the time 176 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 2: or the capacity to really explore that because we so 177 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 2: often are like doing all of the work of the 178 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 2: family and everything. Yeah, So how do you start that 179 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 2: conversation with women? Like how do you bring kinks out 180 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 2: of someone? How does someone discover their kinks? 181 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 1: I really do that mostly in one on one sessions 182 00:08:58,080 --> 00:08:59,839 Speaker 1: with women, where I will say, tell me about the 183 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: porn you watch, tell me about what turns you on. 184 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 2: Son't watch porn. 185 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: I don't watch porn either. 186 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 2: Okay, and wow, you don't watch porn either. No, the 187 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 2: kink consultant doesn't watch porn. Why not? 188 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: Because my imagination is so much better than anything I 189 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: could ever see. 190 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 2: So would you say, if you were giving advice to 191 00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 2: a couple or a person, what's your conversation like about porn? 192 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: Well, it depends some people. Some men will come to 193 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: me and they say, I think I have a porn 194 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:33,439 Speaker 1: addiction or I can't come Yeah, And I talked to 195 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: them about their relationship with porn because I don't believe 196 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 1: all porn is evil at all. I think the relationship 197 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 1: you have with porn can be problematic. So I dig 198 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: in with men, I dig in a little bit about 199 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:45,079 Speaker 1: how often they're watching it, how much they're able to 200 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 1: come without it. We work on strategies to wean themselves 201 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 1: off of it. I try and encourage them to find 202 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:53,760 Speaker 1: ways to masturbate orgasm without porn, to see if they 203 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:57,559 Speaker 1: can start focusing on their own imagination, especially if they 204 00:09:57,559 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: find that they are having trouble in intimacy with another person. 205 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, So that's how I broke to a topic 206 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,880 Speaker 1: with them. With women, there are a lot of women 207 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:07,880 Speaker 1: who watch porn. They're usually not on Pornhub, They're on 208 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: other sites. 209 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,439 Speaker 2: My porn that I do interact with is a homemade 210 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 2: I should say in my hidden folder. So like, I 211 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 2: guess I do engage with porn in some ways, But 212 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 2: you're right, it's not on porn Hub. It's not made 213 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 2: by anyone else. It's like usually built with my partner. 214 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 2: Like I have one video with an ex from truly 215 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 2: five years ago and we haven't spoken, and sometimes I 216 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 2: put it on when I'm having a difficult time with 217 00:10:34,160 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 2: my imagination. Okay, I'm sharing too many secrets on this podcast. 218 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: Absolutely not okay. 219 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 2: So, but when you talk to women and you're like, 220 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 2: approach porn because for women it could maybe open up 221 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 2: things a bit more. What are those conversations like? 222 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: There are conversations around what I ask them, what turns 223 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: them on, what relaxes them into it? I often ask 224 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: how often are you masturbating? What is your ideal scenario? 225 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 1: Especially if they're not watching porn. I will never force 226 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 1: anyone to go watch porn totally, but if they are 227 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: watching porn, all assigned homework of send me your favorite 228 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: videos because I want to better understand if they're having 229 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: trouble discussing it. Sometimes I can sort of hack it 230 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: by watching the porn, identifying the themes, and bringing it 231 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: up to them and say, I noticed it was very 232 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: sensual touch. I noticed they were being watched, or they 233 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: were in a public place, or they were in a bedroom. 234 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: How important? And I ask questions like how important it 235 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,680 Speaker 1: is is it to you that you're in a bed 236 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 1: during sex? You know? I ask very specific questions to 237 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,240 Speaker 1: better understand where their insecurities might be, where their passion 238 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,280 Speaker 1: might lie. I ask the actors they're attracted to. I 239 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,439 Speaker 1: ask what roles in movies they're attracted to, because there 240 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: are so many tells for people and you just have 241 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: to start unraveling it a little bit. 242 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 2: So it's sort of just like, think about what you're 243 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:47,960 Speaker 2: interested in. 244 00:11:48,240 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 1: It's essentially that I watch a movie and notice who 245 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: you see and what you like, and then explore that. 246 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,760 Speaker 1: And that's for people who are not in touch with it, 247 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:00,760 Speaker 1: like you described. Some women are extremely in touch with it, 248 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, this is what I watch, this 249 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,559 Speaker 1: is what I look for when I'm watching porn, and 250 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: I sometimes have to navigate the ones who are less 251 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:09,240 Speaker 1: familiar with her own interests. 252 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 2: Do you love talking to the wife, because I'm like, 253 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 2: men are so allowed to, like yes or not, even 254 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 2: are they allowed, they're expected to, And I feel like 255 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 2: that is sometimes wait on men to like be so sexual, 256 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 2: like so often their sexuality is tied to their power 257 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 2: and their personhood, and so it's like, yes, they're allowed to, 258 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 2: but also they're expected to, which I think can sometimes 259 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 2: be difficult. But talking to the woman must feel like 260 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 2: so exciting to help her really explore what she wants. 261 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: It is the most amazing feeling, especially at the end 262 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: of those calls, I feel super energized because I'm helping 263 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:49,640 Speaker 1: her understand she has power in this situation that she 264 00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 1: may not have felt before. And I'm also I jokingly say, 265 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,440 Speaker 1: and this is sad, but it's true. My job is 266 00:12:55,480 --> 00:12:57,959 Speaker 1: teaching men how to take out the trash and replace 267 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: the trash bag. It is not even joke how I've 268 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: had to tell multiple men, hey, listen, part of the 269 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 1: power exchange you want. Your wife does not feel it's 270 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: a power exchange. She feels it's an extension of the 271 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: life you already lead because she has to do so 272 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,600 Speaker 1: much mental labor. So like you take out the trash, 273 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: but you forget to replace the trash bag and she 274 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 1: has to remind you or do it herself. You need 275 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: to step up in the ways you're presenting in the 276 00:13:19,360 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: home so that when you guys go into the bedroom 277 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: it feels like a power exchange. 278 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 2: That is so funny that like part of your consulting 279 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 2: is just telling a man to be a good partner. 280 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 2: I wish, am I take care of your life outside 281 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 2: of that. 282 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: It's really common and so many people think I must 283 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:36,360 Speaker 1: be just talking about people's sex lives all day and 284 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 1: I'm like, no, I'm talking about a choor list. A 285 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:40,560 Speaker 1: lot of the time it's. 286 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 3: A mix, but yes, the dish do the dishes that 287 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:59,199 Speaker 3: she'll put a strap on on you. 288 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:04,000 Speaker 2: What was that your first experience in this world? Like, 289 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 2: how did you get into it? 290 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 1: Great question. I was born kinky, and oh my god, 291 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: I really was a lot of people out there's like 292 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: this chicken egg conversation trauma breeding, like what actually starts 293 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 1: people being kinky? And it wasn't until I was like 294 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: thirteen years old I figured out spanking and punishment, this 295 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,880 Speaker 1: is sexual for me, and it sort of like kicked 296 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,760 Speaker 1: everything off. And then I spent basically fifteen or twenty 297 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: years being kind of ashamed of it until I moved 298 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:31,480 Speaker 1: to New York City and I took a job as 299 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:32,360 Speaker 1: a dominatrix. 300 00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, were your loved ones and your family 301 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 2: and everyone? Was everyone okay with it? Or was it 302 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 2: kind of a conversation. 303 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: The dominatrix one or the kinky one? 304 00:14:40,120 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 2: The dominatrix one? 305 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:43,400 Speaker 1: Oh so, I have the most supportive mother in the world. 306 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 2: Oh my god. 307 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: I even had her on my podcast to talk about 308 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: the entire situation, and she definitely she didn't let me 309 00:14:49,280 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 1: know this at the time, was worried about it, but 310 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: she was so supportive. When I went home that Christmas. 311 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: She has like a little Christmas village that she does, 312 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: and she brought me over to it. She'd put in 313 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: a little red light dish to support her daughter, who 314 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: now worked as a sex worker. 315 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 2: I have so amazing Wow, did you ever have to 316 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 2: be secretive about it? 317 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: So I was secretive with everyone and really embarrassed about 318 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 1: needing my kink for the longest time, so I didn't 319 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: tell anyone for a really long time. I sort of 320 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: alt I got my fourteen year old boyfriend to spank 321 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 1: me and my seventeen year old boyfriend to do the same, 322 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,320 Speaker 1: But I felt weird, so I didn't tell anyone, like, hey, 323 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: I'm weird. Yeah, until maybe even after working at the dungeon. 324 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: It took a long time for me to say, Hey, 325 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 1: I'm kinky, this is what I'm into. 326 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 2: Tell me about the dungeon. 327 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, what it's like. 328 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 2: Walk me through that. 329 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: So I needed a second job, so I was moonlighting 330 00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: as a dominatrix. It wasn't my full time job. I've 331 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: answered an ad on Craigslist where they were looking for girls, 332 00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: and I went and interviewed and I explained everything. I 333 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: was like, this is what I'm into. This is when 334 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: I know I think I could be a good dumb 335 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: and they were like, yeah, you have the job. So 336 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 1: I started working there and it was one of the 337 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: most empowering experiences of my life. Like a lot of people, well, 338 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: sex work has a bad rap, right, and there's a 339 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,800 Speaker 1: lot of stigma around it. As am I wasn't having 340 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 1: sex with clients, but it's still in the sexual field. 341 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: So when I got there, I learned my skills of 342 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: domming from other strong women. 343 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:15,400 Speaker 2: Right. 344 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 1: There were times where I remember going on a date. 345 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna go shave, and a bunch 346 00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: of women yelled at the same time, do not shaved. 347 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: It was just such a strong sisterhood. Yeah, and there 348 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 1: was a little bit of hazing that went on because 349 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,080 Speaker 1: you're all competing with each other for the same clients. 350 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: But I had the best introduction to learning how to 351 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: do a bunch of different kinky things. Like one time 352 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:37,520 Speaker 1: I got a session over someone and it was caning 353 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: and the session, oh. 354 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 2: Good question, I'm gonna have to reveal myself, like the 355 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 2: world of kink is unexplored for me. 356 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. Caning is when you get like a long, thin stick, 357 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:51,720 Speaker 1: think of like a long dowel, but sometimes they're actually 358 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 1: in the shape of a cane. It's a very nineteen 359 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: hundreds British style discipline, like school discipline where you hit 360 00:16:57,720 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 1: someone on the butt with. 361 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 2: You know, it sounds like my mom. Obviously not sexual 362 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 2: but no, okay, but right, so you're taking. 363 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: A can exactly. It's all consensual. I had never done 364 00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: it before, and one of the girls who I was 365 00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: kind of competing with to get the session, I got it, 366 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: and she took me aside before I went in and 367 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: she taught me how to do it, and I just 368 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,719 Speaker 1: thought that that was one of the kindest things. It's like, basically, 369 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: it's almost like I'm taking money out of her pocket 370 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:21,119 Speaker 1: because I got it instead of her. But she was like, no, 371 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,280 Speaker 1: let's teach you how to do this the right way. 372 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: And that's the sisterhood I'm talking about. 373 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 2: How do you compete for it, Like you're standing in 374 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:29,800 Speaker 2: front of people and you're like, watch me do this. 375 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: Or like hosk you go in individually. All of the 376 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: doms A person john, a client will come in and say, hey, 377 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,720 Speaker 1: I'm looking for X y Z. I want a skinny girl, 378 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,800 Speaker 1: a curby girl, dark hair, blonde, whatever it is. And 379 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:44,520 Speaker 1: then all the girls who match the description go in 380 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: and meet one by one and they say, Hey, this 381 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: is who I am, this is what I can offer. 382 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:50,680 Speaker 1: What do you want? And then he picks someone. 383 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 2: Wow, let's get a little bit into like specific kinks. 384 00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 2: What are other common kinks that our listeners may not 385 00:17:59,400 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 2: know about? 386 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:01,760 Speaker 1: There are so many different types of fetishes. There are 387 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,640 Speaker 1: foot fetishes, there are things that some people have bug 388 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,320 Speaker 1: fetishes where they really need to be thinking about bugs. 389 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 2: And have you had a client who had a bug fetish. 390 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: Not as a coach, as a yes at the Dungeon. 391 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:17,720 Speaker 1: And this is tenyure plus years ago for me. Yes, 392 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: at the Dungeon, I had someone who had a bug fetish. 393 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 2: Tell me about it. Were you like pooring little beetles 394 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 2: on them and stuff? 395 00:18:22,560 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 1: I was pretending to squash bugs for them? 396 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:25,080 Speaker 2: Shot up? 397 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, And we had this rule where you couldn't bring 398 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:29,679 Speaker 1: bugs in and a lot of people would rather just 399 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,359 Speaker 1: use their imagination than fake bugs. 400 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, that's so funny to me. I'm like so 401 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,760 Speaker 2: interested in what that gives to people, like why that 402 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 2: is a turn on or a king? 403 00:18:39,240 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: So this is sort of the thing of like, is 404 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,040 Speaker 1: there trauma. Were they scared of bugs as a kid, 405 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:45,679 Speaker 1: where they bullied with bugs? Anything could happen, or they 406 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: really could have just been fascinated by them, and they're 407 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 1: excited by bugs being tiny and being able to squash them. 408 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,600 Speaker 1: So power play has definitely woven through everything. One common 409 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,240 Speaker 1: kink that very few people realize is so common. A 410 00:18:58,320 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 1: lot of men are wearing women's panties. 411 00:19:00,520 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 2: If men are okay, men are wearing women's panties often, yes, 412 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 2: how do you know? 413 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: I get a lot of consolet calls from wives and 414 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,680 Speaker 1: girlfriends who are saying, I found my partner going through 415 00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: my pandy drawer wearing my panties, having women's lingerie that 416 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 1: he wears, and I have to talk them off the 417 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 1: ledge a little bit and be like, this is super common. 418 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:23,600 Speaker 1: I know it's jarring, and I always want to validate 419 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,800 Speaker 1: the fact that, yes, it is jarring when you see 420 00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:29,080 Speaker 1: your partner doing something that society has told you is wrong, 421 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: society has told you is something totally different. It's perverted, 422 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:34,479 Speaker 1: And I'm like, there are more men doing this than 423 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: you think, so it's not abnormal. And I hear this regularly, 424 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:40,600 Speaker 1: so I try and normalize it for them, but also 425 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,159 Speaker 1: explain I don't know why their husband is doing this 426 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: or their partner, they need to ask them and talk 427 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: to them directly about it. Sometimes feeling the material feels good. 428 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 1: They enjoy the snugness of it. Some people are wearing 429 00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:55,119 Speaker 1: their wives and I am a really big proponent of 430 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 1: consent obviously, so I don't want someone wearing their partner's 431 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: panties without asking for consent, but they say it makes 432 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 1: them feel closer to them. 433 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 2: I also wear my boyfriend's boxers I loves right now 434 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 2: that I think about it, I love to wear my Yeah. 435 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: So why is it one directional that we can do that? 436 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: Why are any of our underground arments gendered at all? Like, 437 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: why can't we just let men have lacy boxers if 438 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,800 Speaker 1: that's what they want, right, And there are companies that 439 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 1: exist that make this type of garment for men that 440 00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:27,400 Speaker 1: fit better, hold them better, So that's really common. Even 441 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,080 Speaker 1: someone DMed me recently and told me that their uncle 442 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,960 Speaker 1: is a cop and they pull over a lot of 443 00:20:32,960 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: men who are wearing women's panties. 444 00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:36,160 Speaker 2: So it's like, how do they find out? 445 00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,199 Speaker 1: I guess they arrest them. What I guess when you 446 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: arrest people and you have to like they go to jail, 447 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:47,920 Speaker 1: you're put into jail clothes. Yeah, yeah, that's crazy but common, right. 448 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 2: Wow. 449 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: I just I really like to get that message out 450 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 1: there because I just want more people to understand if 451 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: you find your partner doing this, have a conversation about 452 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:58,720 Speaker 1: content if they're wearing your panties, for sure, but also 453 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 1: recognize it's a lot common than you think. So that's 454 00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,719 Speaker 1: a common one. As I said, the power change thing 455 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,399 Speaker 1: is woven throughout a lot of different things. But cuckolding 456 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:12,400 Speaker 1: hot wifing, so that so hot wifing is still where 457 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: the woman is going out and sleeping with other people, 458 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: but instead of it, cuckolding sort of has a shame 459 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,040 Speaker 1: element to it, where the husband or the partner who's 460 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 1: being left likes to hear the details and feel ashamed 461 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:26,320 Speaker 1: and sometimes watch and indulge in the embarrassment of it, 462 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,720 Speaker 1: whereas hot wifing comes from from an empowerment place of 463 00:21:28,760 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: the woman is going out and really exploring herself and 464 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: experiencing other men, and it's from a much more empowered place. 465 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 2: What does that give men exactly? You think to like 466 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,080 Speaker 2: let their person go out, Like, what do you think 467 00:21:43,119 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 2: that gives men? 468 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: Well, for some men, they enjoy the embarrassment. They like 469 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 1: to feel shame, they like to feel humiliated. So that's 470 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: that cuckolding side. But for the men who enjoyed knowing 471 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:52,960 Speaker 1: their wife is going out and sleeping with other people, 472 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,159 Speaker 1: And from that empowerment side, they like to know their 473 00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: wife is so hot and experiencing her sexuality fully and 474 00:21:58,119 --> 00:21:59,720 Speaker 1: it is a turn on to them to know other 475 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: men and find my wife attractive too. We're all getting 476 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: to enjoy her. There's some compersion in that, so you 477 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 1: really feel excitement and joy because somebody else is experiencing it. 478 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 2: I'm such a jealous person, so I'm like imagining imagining 479 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 2: myself in that role. It's so interesting because like that 480 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:19,919 Speaker 2: is a more common thing for men than it is 481 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 2: for women, Isn't it Like women aren't often asking their 482 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 2: partner to go out and do that. Why do you 483 00:22:27,359 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 2: think that is? 484 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 1: Like? 485 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:30,840 Speaker 2: Why don't want women want that? 486 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: I think that's also society. Women are taught we need 487 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 1: a man to come in and protect us, so by 488 00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: sending their man out to find another woman. That's putting 489 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: your own security at risk because the man might find 490 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: another woman and go settle down with her, and then 491 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: you are left possibly divorced or single. And there's nothing 492 00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: worse in society today than being a single woman according 493 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: to society. Yeah, I mean it's better than it was 494 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: in eighteen hundreds, but there's still this shame about it. 495 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: There's still this the society is set up. And I 496 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: listened to I guess it was episode two or three 497 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: where you talked about that there is this thing we're 498 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 1: set up to be in partnership, and you are putting 499 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: yourself at risk by letting your man go out and 500 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: we have a lot of or to lose. Usually, yes, 501 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: but you have to understand a lot of my clientele 502 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: forty five to sixty five year old white man, ninety 503 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,520 Speaker 1: nine percent of the clients I had at the dungeon 504 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: were men. 505 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:21,320 Speaker 2: Why do you think that is? 506 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: I think men have more money to play with this. 507 00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:26,800 Speaker 1: Men have to pay for it, whereas women can often 508 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: find it outside. And that's just a fact. Women can 509 00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: go on a date and say this is what I'm into, 510 00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: and guys are a little bit more flexible in that. 511 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,040 Speaker 1: And this once again falls into the puritanical thing of 512 00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: women are taught be good, be quiet, be polite, follow 513 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,040 Speaker 1: the rules, say yes yes, and something about kink feels 514 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: outside of that. So also, did you see the movie 515 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:53,080 Speaker 1: Baby Girl? Yes, so I work with I really enjoyed 516 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: that movie because the things Nicole Kidman went through with 517 00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:59,000 Speaker 1: her husband. I remember a lot of people saying, oh please, 518 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: like Antonio Bendar's when do whatever Nicole Kidman wanted, And 519 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: It's like, Nope, those are my clients. 520 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,880 Speaker 2: Do whatever. She wanted to tell me more about. 521 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: She wanted to be submissive in the relationship. She wanted 522 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:10,280 Speaker 1: to be sexually submissive. She wanted him to be a 523 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: little more forceful in the bedroom. And even when she 524 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: told him in the movie, she puts a sheet over 525 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: her head because she's so embarrassed and ashamed to share 526 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 1: it with him, and then when she does, she is 527 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,520 Speaker 1: shot down. He rejects her. And I felt that so 528 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: deeply because I've been in relationships where that happens. I've 529 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,479 Speaker 1: a younger version of myself was very embarrassed about what 530 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,959 Speaker 1: she wanted. God, even my current version of myself can 531 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: be a little bit embarrassed about saying yes, I'm submissive 532 00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 1: and I want to submit to you in the bedroom. 533 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: But in it, I remember watching it and being like 534 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,959 Speaker 1: those two people should be my clients because she just 535 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:47,199 Speaker 1: really needs to break down in a more explanatory way, like, 536 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,119 Speaker 1: this is the feeling I want to have. Can you 537 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 1: help me achieve this feeling? These are the things that 538 00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:53,879 Speaker 1: would help me achieve that, Like she wanted to feel submissive, 539 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: she wanted to submit and sort of maybe baby be 540 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 1: a little masochistic. So if you're looking for a dominant 541 00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,480 Speaker 1: a woman to take a leadership role, it's pretty difficult 542 00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,679 Speaker 1: to find. And a lot of my coaching clients that 543 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: I have right now are currently dating and trying to 544 00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,120 Speaker 1: find a dominant woman, and I'm trying to help them 545 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: improve their dating profile understand how to balance it because 546 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: a lot of my clients sort of like, I want 547 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,239 Speaker 1: a dom and they just imagine all the things they 548 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: want and not the things that they can give, because 549 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 1: it is a power exchange. 550 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 2: Say more about that the things that they want, but 551 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 2: the things they can't give. What is like untangling that? 552 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: Like, Yeah, so I find that a lot of my 553 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: clients have built up a fantasy for forty years of 554 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:34,640 Speaker 1: their life right of what they want, and then they've 555 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: never actually experienced it, so they've never thought about how 556 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,199 Speaker 1: this exists in partnership. So they say they want a 557 00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,439 Speaker 1: female led relationship, they want a dominant woman. But all 558 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: they've ever done is focus on the fantasy of it, 559 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 1: and maybe if they've watched a little bit too much 560 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: Born and all they're imagining is a woman who's going 561 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 1: to come in and take charge. But that's their fantasy 562 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: and they're not actually thinking about how am I going 563 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: to be in partnership with someone, How if this is 564 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: a power exchange, what am I offering them? Because they've 565 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 1: been very one sided, and that is something that actually 566 00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:02,880 Speaker 1: is quite historical. A lot of the women who worked 567 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: at the Dungeon, who admit in the industry for twenty 568 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 1: plus years, told me about in early days, men would 569 00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: find the ad in the back of a paper. They 570 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,719 Speaker 1: would show up and they would be shocked they had 571 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 1: to pay because they just thought like, oh, this person 572 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:16,400 Speaker 1: is here to fulfill my fantasy. They're into it too, 573 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: without realizing, no, this is a trade agreement. 574 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,919 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm like wondering what that negotiation is like? I 575 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,280 Speaker 2: will say I have considered. I guess you could call 576 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,680 Speaker 2: it sex work. I called it being an escort or whatever, 577 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 2: getting paid to go on dates with men. Yeah, because 578 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,199 Speaker 2: I was like, I go on dates with men and 579 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:34,880 Speaker 2: I pretend and I play, and I make it good 580 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 2: for them for free, so I might as well get 581 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:39,199 Speaker 2: paid for it. It's something I was considering, but I 582 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,360 Speaker 2: wasn't one hundred percent, so you know, I was just, yeah, 583 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 2: I totally do figuring it out. So I got on 584 00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:47,639 Speaker 2: seeking arrangements. Yeah, and I made a profile and there 585 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,440 Speaker 2: was this man who was married and in his fifties, 586 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 2: and we were chatting, and I was like, how would 587 00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:56,400 Speaker 2: your wife feel? And of course I'm so new to this, right, 588 00:26:56,600 --> 00:26:59,159 Speaker 2: so I'm like asking him all of these emotional questions 589 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 2: like turning into his theirs, which I'm sure you have 590 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:05,120 Speaker 2: experience with. I'm sure it's very emotional too, it is 591 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,840 Speaker 2: your work. But I was like, how would your wife 592 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 2: feel if she found out? He was like, she would 593 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,320 Speaker 2: be devastated, and I'm like, okay, well understand, man, just complicated, 594 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 2: like whatever. So we start texting and he starts trying 595 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 2: to be sexual. Before we had talked about any sort 596 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 2: of compensation yeah, And I was like, okay, before we 597 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 2: get into all that, like how much are you considering 598 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 2: paying me? And he was like, well, I don't pay 599 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 2: for sex. And I was like, well, you are paying 600 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 2: for sex, and he was like, this isn't that kind 601 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 2: of thing. I can give you an allowance And there 602 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 2: was a difference between like payment and allowance. Why do 603 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 2: you think men are so they like refuse to admit 604 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 2: they're paying for it even though they obviously are. 605 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,280 Speaker 1: I think there's a stigma associated with paying with it 606 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 1: as well. I mean, when you think about it, it 607 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: is the world's oldest profession, right, and people still have 608 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,639 Speaker 1: an issue saying they pay for it because it's a 609 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:59,400 Speaker 1: big point of pride for men to say I've never 610 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:00,159 Speaker 1: paid for sex. 611 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 2: Ah, heat is that true? 612 00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 1: You know you've never heard a man sort of brag 613 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:12,600 Speaker 1: I've never paid for sex. That's enough for me that 614 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 1: I have. 615 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 2: Brought it up to men. I brought it up to 616 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:17,480 Speaker 2: my brother. There was this one guy who was going 617 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:19,480 Speaker 2: to pay me five hundred dollars to go on dates 618 00:28:19,480 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 2: with him, inclusive of sex, and I said, if you 619 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 2: give me a thousand dollars, I'll do it, and he 620 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:27,640 Speaker 2: was like no, and I was like, Okay, well then 621 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:30,040 Speaker 2: it's just not going to happen. And I also wasn't 622 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,120 Speaker 2: again like sold on it. I was sort of just. 623 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: You were dabbling. 624 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. Yeah. But when I told my brother about it, 625 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 2: he was like, how embarrassing? Da da da da da. 626 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 2: And for me, I was like, I don't know. If 627 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 2: he has five hundred dollars to throw around, it's a 628 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 2: bit of a flex to me, like he's got some 629 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 2: money and he's using it. Like, I don't know if 630 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 2: there should be so much shame about it, except for 631 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 2: the guy who was married, there should probably be a 632 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 2: little bit of I don't have a shame. 633 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: We really do need to connect on multiple different ways 634 00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 1: with our partner, and intimacy is extremely important, and if 635 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:16,400 Speaker 1: you're not being met there, it can feel really isolating. 636 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, you can feel so alone. 637 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 1: A lot of my clients when they first come to me, 638 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: they say, I feel like I have a great roommate, 639 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: and I hear that time and time again, and they 640 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 1: are talking to me because they no longer just want 641 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: a roommate, they want to reconnect. 642 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 2: What's your first piece of advice to a couple When 643 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 2: they say my husband feels like my roommate and I 644 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 2: hate him. 645 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:41,120 Speaker 1: I hate I don't know if it's for better or worse. 646 00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: When people come to me, they don't hate each other yet. Oh, 647 00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,280 Speaker 1: they are looking for ways to find each other again. 648 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: So my advice to them is how what are things 649 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,920 Speaker 1: you connect on? I try and find ways for them 650 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 1: to focus on what brings them together. I often ask 651 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: couples how they met and what attracted them to each 652 00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: other in the first place, totally because I want to 653 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 1: find some common ground for them to agree on and 654 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: a positive memory, right because so I'm always trying to 655 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: take them back to something good that happens, something positive, 656 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,479 Speaker 1: and we can build from there. Because couples will have 657 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:12,800 Speaker 1: no problem getting into a couple session with me or 658 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,120 Speaker 1: their individual sessions with me and telling me all of 659 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,880 Speaker 1: the bad things. So I try, when they're together, especially 660 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,239 Speaker 1: to try and remind them of the good things. So 661 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: I start, you lead with curiosity and gratitude. Those are 662 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,520 Speaker 1: my rules in session because I think that that's a 663 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,840 Speaker 1: really good way to build connection. 664 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:33,880 Speaker 2: So simple, but it can be so difficult to do. 665 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 2: Like again, I think probably because there are so many 666 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 2: cultural expectations around sex, like I'm thinking specifically of this 667 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 2: one girl I was talking with about her sex life, 668 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,400 Speaker 2: and like she really didn't want to teach her partner anything. 669 00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 2: Like she had this partner, this boyfriend who was like 670 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 2: a perfect boyfriend in so many ways, checked all the boxes, 671 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,440 Speaker 2: but in the bedroom, he was not as experienced as 672 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 2: she was, and she was so mad at him about it. 673 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 2: And I finally cent her. I was like, you're gonna 674 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 2: have to change your perspective. 675 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: Thank you, Yes, Like you're gonna. 676 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,400 Speaker 2: Have to like be okay with the fact that he 677 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:13,640 Speaker 2: is not what your idea of what a man should be, 678 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 2: and like untangling that can be so difficult. If someone 679 00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,840 Speaker 2: says I don't have kinks, what do you say to them? 680 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 1: I begin to question a little bit. I have to 681 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 1: dig a little further, because if they say they don't 682 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: have kinks, I ask, what do you fantasize about? What 683 00:31:29,800 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 1: are you interested in? How do you know you're going 684 00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: to have sex? Like what's the foreplay? Like, what's it 685 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: like during? What are you saying to each other? What 686 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 1: happens when you come, what happens when he comes? I 687 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: just dig in to see I needed almost a clinical 688 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: explanation of what's happening step by step to understand and 689 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,000 Speaker 1: see if I could point to anything that's slightly kinky. 690 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:49,480 Speaker 1: And I have one couple and I really think they 691 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:51,720 Speaker 1: might be vanilla. There the most vanilla couple I've ever 692 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: spoken to. 693 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 2: Say more about vanilla they and. 694 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 1: I shouldn't use that word because people hate that word. 695 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:01,320 Speaker 1: Non kinky, non kinky. They havetionary sex where they say 696 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: I love you. There's no degradation. There's so crazy, it's 697 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:09,120 Speaker 1: can a kink be I love you? My God? I'm like, yes, 698 00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: like tell. 699 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,240 Speaker 2: Me even if you don't know me, please, like that 700 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:13,920 Speaker 2: can't happen. 701 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: Yes, you can absolutely ask for someone to say I 702 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:17,960 Speaker 1: love you during sex and you just say I won't 703 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:19,480 Speaker 1: hold you to this, but can you say this because 704 00:32:19,480 --> 00:32:20,440 Speaker 1: it really does it for me? 705 00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay, So vanilla sex to you is like missionary 706 00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:29,120 Speaker 2: eye contact, like nothing outside of maybe what the Bible 707 00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 2: would tell us to. 708 00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 1: Do pretty much. 709 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 2: Okay, why do you think it's important for her or 710 00:32:34,320 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 2: them to identify it? 711 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: Like? 712 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 2: Can a couple just have a vanilla ask sex life 713 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 2: and be happy and fine forever? Or do you think 714 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 2: she's missing something? Do you want? 715 00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: Oh? No, I do not think she's missing any Okay, 716 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:46,800 Speaker 1: I am one of the I get an arguments in 717 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: my dms and on social media actually do. 718 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 2: I'm sure people are up in those dyes where they'll say. 719 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 1: Like, well, my kink relationship is just so much deeper 720 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,920 Speaker 1: than any vanilla relationship I've ever had, And I'm like, yeah, 721 00:32:58,000 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: that's because you are kinky. Kinksters can have just as 722 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 1: deep a relationship, and it's about feeling seen and having 723 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:08,240 Speaker 1: your needs met. So yes, for me, I need kink 724 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: and a vanilla relationship isn't going to hit as deep, 725 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,120 Speaker 1: it's not going to run as deep for me in connection. 726 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: But two vanilla people, if they're both having their needs met, 727 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: guess what the connection is there, so their cup is 728 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: full totally in the same way. 729 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,480 Speaker 2: This makes complete sense. What are some jools or practices 730 00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 2: you recommend to people to explore kink safely, especially when 731 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 2: they're like new or nervous. 732 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:36,920 Speaker 1: Start slow, Start small. It's like I don't know if 733 00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,000 Speaker 1: you've ever skied, but it's you ski down to the 734 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 1: lower skiers level hill, the bunny hill. You are not 735 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: going on your double black diamond right. Start small, and 736 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: there's no such thing as too small. I would rather 737 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:53,040 Speaker 1: you over communicate and really break things down into tiny 738 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 1: stepping stones. You think you're into impact play, which is 739 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,960 Speaker 1: it might be paddling belts, it's hitting someone maybe on 740 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,440 Speaker 1: the upper back with a flogger or on the butt. 741 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: What I'm going to say is the first implement you 742 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,080 Speaker 1: use is your hand for a handspanking, because you can't 743 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 1: do too much damage with that, right, So you have 744 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: to start small. If you're into power exchange, you don't 745 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,680 Speaker 1: want to dive into a twenty four to seven thing 746 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,440 Speaker 1: where you take on You meet a dominant man and 747 00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:20,600 Speaker 1: he takes control of what you're wearing and he tells 748 00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: you what to eat. You don't want to jump straight 749 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:24,240 Speaker 1: into that. I don't care. If that's your biggest fantasy, 750 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:26,799 Speaker 1: you figure it out by you go on one date 751 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 1: with him, You go in a couple of dates, you 752 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:30,040 Speaker 1: get to know them as a person, you decide if 753 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,080 Speaker 1: you trust them, and then maybe on the next date 754 00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:33,360 Speaker 1: they get to tell. 755 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:34,640 Speaker 2: You what to wear totally. 756 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: You know that slow level steps, baby steps. Yes, I 757 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 1: recommend everybody does some research, and there are so many 758 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: places to get free resources for research. You can look online, 759 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,279 Speaker 1: even social media. But I would recommend getting books, peer 760 00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 1: reviewed books. 761 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:50,600 Speaker 2: What's your favorite book to start with. 762 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:53,840 Speaker 1: I always give people two books in the New Topping 763 00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,920 Speaker 1: Book and the New Bottoming Book by Janet Hardy and 764 00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,520 Speaker 1: Dossy Easton. They wrote both of those books, and they're 765 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: such great introductory books. Some people might say they're boring 766 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:04,799 Speaker 1: if you're more advanced, but I'm like, no, this is 767 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,359 Speaker 1: exactly what I'm giving. Especially if I have a couple 768 00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,239 Speaker 1: where one's kicking the other's not kinky, I will give 769 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 1: them both these books and say you both have to 770 00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: read these books. 771 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,280 Speaker 2: Oh, that's sextuy homework together. 772 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 1: Oh I'm all of that. 773 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay. If someone's a bit of a people please 774 00:35:19,239 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 2: her myself included same in bed and they've just realized 775 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 2: they've never asked themselves what they want. Where do they start. 776 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,040 Speaker 1: Outside of the bedroom. So what I recommend what they 777 00:35:33,080 --> 00:35:35,239 Speaker 1: start doing is checking in with themselves day to day 778 00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,080 Speaker 1: on random things. They go to the store, they have 779 00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: an interaction with someone at the store. I want them 780 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 1: to create a feedback loop with themselves. How did I 781 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: feel about that interaction? What did I need from it? 782 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,880 Speaker 1: Did I get what I need? Because that's a muscle 783 00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:49,720 Speaker 1: you need to work and you need to start working. 784 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,759 Speaker 1: So the last place I recommend is starting in the 785 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: bedroom with it, because it's confusing. I want you practicing 786 00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,040 Speaker 1: that in every area of your life so that by 787 00:35:58,080 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: the time you get into the bedroom, which is quite 788 00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:03,000 Speaker 1: complex and vulnerable place to be, you are attuned to 789 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 1: yourself and you understand you're used to asking yourself how 790 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:08,280 Speaker 1: you feel about certain situations and what you need for moments. 791 00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never thought about it that way. Like, I 792 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 2: feel like I have so many girlfriends who like really 793 00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 2: don't know how to communicate what they need in the bedroom. 794 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 2: They're so scared to say what they want. 795 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 1: How are they outside of the bedroom? 796 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 2: And that's totally totally yes. And that's what I'm realizing. 797 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,640 Speaker 2: Is like at the grocery store and I know I'm 798 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 2: this way, like my hairstylist wants to cut my hair 799 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,920 Speaker 2: a certain way and I don't really want it, but 800 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:32,800 Speaker 2: I say yes anyways because I want to be nice. 801 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: Yeah. 802 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 2: I totally see how that could like transfer to someone's 803 00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:37,720 Speaker 2: sex life. 804 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: Really it does. 805 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 2: And is that muscle? 806 00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:43,399 Speaker 1: Okay? The hairstylist is the prime example where to bring 807 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:45,880 Speaker 1: that up. Check in with yourself before you agree to 808 00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: something because that's a difficult con I don't why do 809 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:49,680 Speaker 1: we have such anxiety at the hair salon? 810 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,040 Speaker 2: Oh, just because we're really not allowed to say no 811 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,800 Speaker 2: as women are supposed to stay small and be nice exactly, 812 00:36:55,840 --> 00:37:00,239 Speaker 2: and any sort of like, any sort of expectation we 813 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 2: give or feedback we give that's not just easy is 814 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:08,279 Speaker 2: round upon. Yeah, okay, I have one last question for you. 815 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,240 Speaker 2: Why should everyone embrace kink? 816 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 1: I don't know if everyone should embrace kink, but I 817 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 1: think that they should accept it and understand that it 818 00:37:17,239 --> 00:37:19,760 Speaker 1: is a normal part of human sexuality. It's a normal 819 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:23,160 Speaker 1: part of intimacy for some people, and I want everyone 820 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,440 Speaker 1: to understand there's no stigma around it. Some people just 821 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 1: enjoy expressing themselves this way, and we need to empathize 822 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: with people who do so totally understand and accept that 823 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: this is just a part of intimacy. Sex education is 824 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,600 Speaker 1: not great at the best of times, never mind moving 825 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: into what real intimacy is, what real vulnerability is. So 826 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,480 Speaker 1: I just ask everyone give themselves and other people a 827 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: little grace when they're communicating with their partners or even 828 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:53,879 Speaker 1: themselves about what they're looking for. 829 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,400 Speaker 2: At the end of the day, isn't Boys Over really 830 00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:09,720 Speaker 2: about giving ourselves grace? Grace to explore, experiment, and understand. 831 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,799 Speaker 2: Thank you so much to Amanda for coming in and 832 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,480 Speaker 2: teaching us all about kink and how it can benefit 833 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 2: us in and out of the bedroom. I hope this 834 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,520 Speaker 2: conversation brought people closer to understanding what it is they 835 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 2: actually want. Thanks everyone for listening, and I'll talk to 836 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:45,200 Speaker 2: you all next week. Boys Over is a production of 837 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:50,000 Speaker 2: iHeart Podcasts. I'm your host, Hope ordered. Our executive producers 838 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 2: are Christina Everett and Julie Pinero. Our supervising producer is 839 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 2: Emily Meronoff engineering by Bahid Fraser and mixing and mastering 840 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 2: by a boz Afar. If you liked this episode, please 841 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,840 Speaker 2: tell a friend and don't forget to rate, review, and 842 00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 2: subscribe to boy Sober on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 843 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,120 Speaker 2: and wherever you get your favorite shows.