WEBVTT - Colony Capital Founder Tom Barrack Talks Trump's Second Term

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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<v Speaker 2>Tom, it's great to have you here, back at Bloomberg,

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<v Speaker 2>so good to be with you.

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<v Speaker 1>It's back to the future a bit. Tom.

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<v Speaker 2>It's worth reminding everybody a little bit about your relationship

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<v Speaker 2>with the president elect. Joe just told us, and he's

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely right, of course, that you were chairman of the

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<v Speaker 2>inauguration back in twenty sixteen. You were, of course then

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<v Speaker 2>President Trump's biggest fundraiser at the time. You and he

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<v Speaker 2>go back more than forty years. It gives you unique

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<v Speaker 2>insights into the man and more importantly, what Trump two

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<v Speaker 2>point zero is going to be like. One of the

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<v Speaker 2>things that people want to know most is how Trump

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<v Speaker 2>two point.

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<v Speaker 1>Zero is going to be different from Trump one point Oh.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell us, so, first.

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<v Speaker 3>Of all, the insight into the man going back forty

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<v Speaker 3>years his I've learned one thing, trust his instincts. And

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<v Speaker 3>I think what the country now has decided is that

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<v Speaker 3>all the rhetoric, all the confusion, all the drama around

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<v Speaker 3>how it may be presented, this is not only one

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<v Speaker 3>of the greatest political athletes that we've ever seen. He's

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<v Speaker 3>just one of the greatest athletes. But the question I

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<v Speaker 3>think on what two point zero is. It's going to

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<v Speaker 3>be hopeful, phenomenal and much better I think than even

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<v Speaker 3>the other side, in fear of what might be coming.

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<v Speaker 1>Will accept.

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<v Speaker 3>Why because think about in twenty sixteen we were together,

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<v Speaker 3>we were having this conversation. You have a man who's

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<v Speaker 3>one of the best builder, developers, financiers in the world,

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<v Speaker 3>a reality talk show host for thirteen years on The Apprentice,

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<v Speaker 3>zero political experience zero washingtonsters. Right in those if you

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<v Speaker 3>had to go out of the two one two area

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<v Speaker 3>code in those days, it was a flurry.

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<v Speaker 1>Comes to Washington.

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<v Speaker 3>Putting a team together, right, We all thought we were

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<v Speaker 3>putting the best team together. You had to find resources

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<v Speaker 3>to do with people were apprehensive of doing it, and

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<v Speaker 3>just finding your way around DC was not.

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<v Speaker 2>So is the point that he's no longer a rookie

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<v Speaker 2>in the job and he knows what he's doing.

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<v Speaker 3>Well. Not only is he not a rookie, he did

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<v Speaker 3>a great job. And if you think of what happened,

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<v Speaker 3>were right. We went from a Muslim band to no isis.

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<v Speaker 3>We go to a great economy and the world. We

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<v Speaker 3>have no problems with Mexico at the time, immigration is

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<v Speaker 3>under control, healthcare security, housing, all of those things seemed

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<v Speaker 3>to be better four years then of being attacked physically, legally, socially,

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<v Speaker 3>and reflecting on all of the other things. So in

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<v Speaker 3>that reflection of four years got him ready to say,

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<v Speaker 3>if I had the opportunity in the Stewarts to have

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<v Speaker 3>another four years and really create my legacy, I now

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<v Speaker 3>know how to do it, and I know what the

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<v Speaker 3>people are that I need, and I know the wiring

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<v Speaker 3>of the plumbing and the system.

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<v Speaker 2>So let's talk for a moment about the instincts. So

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<v Speaker 2>few of the President elect's nominees for cabinet positions, not all,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, but so few, I would say, have the

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<v Speaker 2>resume traditionally needed to achieve high office.

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<v Speaker 1>Why Tom, help us understand?

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<v Speaker 2>Why is he choosing people with such limited experience and

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<v Speaker 2>limited on a relative basis qualifications.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't know that's limited qualifications, right, qualifications.

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<v Speaker 2>On a relative basis. If you look at the resumes

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<v Speaker 2>of the people who got those jobs in the last administration,

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<v Speaker 2>in the first Trump administration and administrations going back decades,

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<v Speaker 2>they were quote unquote more qualified.

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<v Speaker 3>Well more qualified of being in the system. But the

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<v Speaker 3>America people just said to Donald Trump, is we believe you,

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<v Speaker 3>We understand you. We we are not supporting the system.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not working for us. It's not working in housing,

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<v Speaker 3>it's not working in medicare, it's not working with our children.

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<v Speaker 3>We can't say God in school. We don't want our

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<v Speaker 3>boys to become girls or girls to become boys. That's

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<v Speaker 3>out of the system. So I disagree the qualification for

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<v Speaker 3>the system, for the bureaucracy right when we're talking about

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<v Speaker 3>the deep state or the establishment, and the establishment is

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<v Speaker 3>not bad, right, These people are not bad. It's it's

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<v Speaker 3>not corrupt, it's corroded. So to come in with a

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<v Speaker 3>new frame of mind, with a new set of people

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<v Speaker 3>who have integrity, have commitment, have dedication, who understand a

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<v Speaker 3>different program is.

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<v Speaker 1>What you need to move the cheese you need. You

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<v Speaker 1>need to break the system. You need to move that.

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<v Speaker 1>You need to break the system.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, I mean, and you're saying that, it's it's it's

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<v Speaker 2>important to hear you say that because you're not I

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<v Speaker 2>know this. We've known each other long enough.

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<v Speaker 1>You're not a burn it.

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<v Speaker 2>Down kind of a guy. Absolutely, you've found ways to

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<v Speaker 2>succeed inside the system. Trump in many ways has success

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<v Speaker 2>in spite of the system. And now he kind of

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<v Speaker 2>wants to burn it down. Is burning it down in principle,

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<v Speaker 2>is the risks that you take in burning it down,

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<v Speaker 2>the risks that you take with the rule of law,

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<v Speaker 2>the risks that you take with civil rights, the risks

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<v Speaker 2>that you take with military competence, the risks that you

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<v Speaker 2>take with financial markets. Are they worth it? Are they

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<v Speaker 2>worth the prize that potentially is there at the end

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<v Speaker 2>of the day when you've burnt it down.

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, And he's not burning it down. And the price

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<v Speaker 3>is freedom in America, right, I mean, that's what we're

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<v Speaker 3>looking for, is the American dream to be reinstated. So

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<v Speaker 3>if you look at how what he's doing, it's analog

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<v Speaker 3>to digital right. We have a federal government that is

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<v Speaker 3>not corrupt. These the Justice Department itself, we all talk about.

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<v Speaker 3>That is kind of the mainstay of the focus of

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<v Speaker 3>these atrocities that have happened. Steve Bannon in jail twenty

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<v Speaker 3>seven of his associates indict what they've done to him

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<v Speaker 3>time in and time out. In my opinion, is not

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<v Speaker 3>because Merrick Garland is correct, or least a Monaco is corrupt,

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<v Speaker 3>or the civil servants, the ninety four US attorneys.

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<v Speaker 1>That are there.

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<v Speaker 3>They're not corrupt, they're corroded. The system doesn't work. You

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<v Speaker 3>have to change the system. And the only way you

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<v Speaker 3>can change the system is from the bottom and from

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<v Speaker 3>the top.

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<v Speaker 1>And yes, he's going to do it.

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<v Speaker 3>His appointments absolutely understand the program. Congress now is on side.

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<v Speaker 3>But by the way, Congress is not so easy. Right,

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<v Speaker 3>if you're a sinner in Congress, you don't want your

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<v Speaker 3>fiefdoms to be totally taken away from you with someone

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<v Speaker 3>else's decision. So his artfulness in dealing with Congress will

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<v Speaker 3>be better. But these people are first class choices at Tulsa. Gabber,

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<v Speaker 3>Bobby Kennedy, just.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, you make it sound so reasonable. But even some

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<v Speaker 2>Republicans look at a nomination of a Matt Gates say themselves,

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<v Speaker 2>WTF what is Trump doing? Is that a serious nomination

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<v Speaker 2>or is that sort of a joke or perhaps a

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<v Speaker 2>maneuver of some sort.

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<v Speaker 3>Obviously I can't speak for the president. I can tell

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<v Speaker 3>you it's not a joke.

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<v Speaker 1>So what is he doing.

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<v Speaker 3>He's disintermediating everything we've lived in ten years of disintermediation

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<v Speaker 3>of everything that we've not used. Right, every company that

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<v Speaker 3>was was triple A ten years ago is almost non

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<v Speaker 3>existent today. So it's the same thing a Matt Gates,

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<v Speaker 3>his pick of a Matt Gates going into something like

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<v Speaker 3>the Justice Department. Right when you think of the thousands

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<v Speaker 3>of GS twelve's, GS eleven's, GS ten's lawyers, FBI agents

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<v Speaker 3>has to have some chilling effect, his qualification, hilling effect. Well,

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<v Speaker 3>he's not there yet. His qualifications will be vetted by

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<v Speaker 3>the Senate. Do you want somebody out of the system

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<v Speaker 3>that's been a critique of the system when the people

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<v Speaker 3>in America are saying the system's not working for us.

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<v Speaker 3>None of it is working for us. So put somebody

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<v Speaker 3>in who agrees the system isn't working. He can't move

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<v Speaker 3>it individually.

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<v Speaker 2>Surely Matt Gates is not the only person who thinks

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<v Speaker 2>the system isn't working. There are a lot of people

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<v Speaker 2>to choose from.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, there are. And Matt was a loyalist.

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<v Speaker 3>He took on heavy duty fire in the midst of

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of controversial things.

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<v Speaker 1>And the president knows what he's doing. I think we

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<v Speaker 1>should just.

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<v Speaker 3>Give him a chance trust his instincts. This man has

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<v Speaker 3>been thinking about all of this for four years. He

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<v Speaker 3>had four years of unbelievable experience. He's going to do

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<v Speaker 3>the right thing for all of us, and it's not retribution,

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<v Speaker 3>it's not devisiveness. In his mind, his legacy is the

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<v Speaker 3>most important thing to him at the time. Promises made,

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<v Speaker 3>promises kept along that.

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<v Speaker 2>Road, Promises made, promises. Capt Tom, I think back to

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<v Speaker 2>a conversation that you and I had in twenty twenty one,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was, for very unpleasant reasons for you, an

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<v Speaker 2>untimely conversation, but it was timely in the sense that

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<v Speaker 2>it gave you a chance to reflect on where you'd

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<v Speaker 2>been with the president in his first term. And one

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<v Speaker 2>thing you told me is that you didn't want to

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<v Speaker 2>be part of a campaign built on divisiveness. If the

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<v Speaker 2>president wanted to take a President Trump wanted to take

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<v Speaker 2>a second run at the White House, This was a

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<v Speaker 2>campaign built on divisivests.

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<v Speaker 1>How did you get over that?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, the reason that I entered into it is I

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<v Speaker 3>had been a subject of a nine count indictment by

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<v Speaker 3>the Eastern District.

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<v Speaker 2>Although you didn't know it at the time. You didn't

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<v Speaker 2>know that was coming when we spoke.

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<v Speaker 1>It was just.

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<v Speaker 3>Before but I wasn't involved in the campaign at that time,

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<v Speaker 3>so I had done my service for him, for the country.

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<v Speaker 1>I was honored.

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<v Speaker 3>I couldn't believe that, you know, a Lebanese financial lawyer

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<v Speaker 3>like myself could ever work for the president of the

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<v Speaker 3>United States. And then and then it starts, and I

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<v Speaker 3>look at that experience of saying, fine, if you fly

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<v Speaker 3>at forty thousand feet, it's not I'm being targeted. But

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<v Speaker 3>I'm not being targeted out of corruption. I'm being targeted

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<v Speaker 3>because the political will of the other side is saying, ah,

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<v Speaker 3>we need, we need to mobilize our political agenda.

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<v Speaker 1>Now.

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<v Speaker 3>Fortunately I had the resources to be capable of mounting

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<v Speaker 3>a defense. So what my whole experience was is the

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<v Speaker 3>system works, right, the system works. I had a one

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<v Speaker 3>and a half year experience. I had a two month trial,

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<v Speaker 3>this judge and the jury and one day a full acquittal.

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<v Speaker 3>The average person doesn't do that. So in the Justice Department.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm getting to why Trump Trump, Trump has gone

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<v Speaker 3>through this since Spain. Nobody knows what it does.

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<v Speaker 1>To your life.

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<v Speaker 3>This man can suffer absorb more pain than any human

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<v Speaker 3>being I have ever seen what it does to lives.

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<v Speaker 3>What's under the lives of all the people around Rogerston

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<v Speaker 3>and Paul Manafort, Steve Bannon, They've all been attacked. So

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<v Speaker 3>for me coming back and saying I was honored to

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<v Speaker 3>be a part of it. I went through this system,

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<v Speaker 3>and I admire the system, and I don't have anger

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<v Speaker 3>revenge even that the people who brought those charges against me,

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<v Speaker 3>I understand what they're doing.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's got to be fixed. It has to end.

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<v Speaker 3>It has to end, not prosecuting Democrats, not prosecuting the

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<v Speaker 3>existing prosecutors, not prosecuting the political people who were there before.

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<v Speaker 1>We have to say a time out. This isn't Venezuela.

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<v Speaker 1>We need a new system.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, yes or no, That's all I'm going to ask.

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<v Speaker 2>Should Donald Trump, is one of his first access president,

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<v Speaker 2>pardon anybody who might otherwise be prosecuted for the same

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<v Speaker 2>reasons on the democratic side.

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<v Speaker 1>That's up to the president.

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<v Speaker 3>It's yesterday, it's way outside of it, all right.

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<v Speaker 2>Tom, It's been wonderful.

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<v Speaker 1>Having you here. Thank you so very much. Great to

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<v Speaker 1>see you.

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<v Speaker 2>Tom Barrick, the founder of Colony Capital,