Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.
Speaker 2: Tom, it's great to have you here, back at Bloomberg,
Speaker 2: so good to be with you.
Speaker 1: It's back to the future a bit. Tom.
Speaker 2: It's worth reminding everybody a little bit about your relationship
Speaker 2: with the president elect. Joe just told us, and he's
Speaker 2: absolutely right, of course, that you were chairman of the
Speaker 2: inauguration back in twenty sixteen. You were, of course then
Speaker 2: President Trump's biggest fundraiser at the time. You and he
Speaker 2: go back more than forty years. It gives you unique
Speaker 2: insights into the man and more importantly, what Trump two
Speaker 2: point zero is going to be like. One of the
Speaker 2: things that people want to know most is how Trump
Speaker 2: two point.
Speaker 1: Zero is going to be different from Trump one point Oh.
Speaker 1: Tell us, so, first.
Speaker 3: Of all, the insight into the man going back forty
Speaker 3: years his I've learned one thing, trust his instincts. And
Speaker 3: I think what the country now has decided is that
Speaker 3: all the rhetoric, all the confusion, all the drama around
Speaker 3: how it may be presented, this is not only one
Speaker 3: of the greatest political athletes that we've ever seen. He's
Speaker 3: just one of the greatest athletes. But the question I
Speaker 3: think on what two point zero is. It's going to
Speaker 3: be hopeful, phenomenal and much better I think than even
Speaker 3: the other side, in fear of what might be coming.
Speaker 1: Will accept.
Speaker 3: Why because think about in twenty sixteen we were together,
Speaker 3: we were having this conversation. You have a man who's
Speaker 3: one of the best builder, developers, financiers in the world,
Speaker 3: a reality talk show host for thirteen years on The Apprentice,
Speaker 3: zero political experience zero washingtonsters. Right in those if you
Speaker 3: had to go out of the two one two area
Speaker 3: code in those days, it was a flurry.
Speaker 1: Comes to Washington.
Speaker 3: Putting a team together, right, We all thought we were
Speaker 3: putting the best team together. You had to find resources
Speaker 3: to do with people were apprehensive of doing it, and
Speaker 3: just finding your way around DC was not.
Speaker 2: So is the point that he's no longer a rookie
Speaker 2: in the job and he knows what he's doing.
Speaker 3: Well. Not only is he not a rookie, he did
Speaker 3: a great job. And if you think of what happened,
Speaker 3: were right. We went from a Muslim band to no isis.
Speaker 3: We go to a great economy and the world. We
Speaker 3: have no problems with Mexico at the time, immigration is
Speaker 3: under control, healthcare security, housing, all of those things seemed
Speaker 3: to be better four years then of being attacked physically, legally, socially,
Speaker 3: and reflecting on all of the other things. So in
Speaker 3: that reflection of four years got him ready to say,
Speaker 3: if I had the opportunity in the Stewarts to have
Speaker 3: another four years and really create my legacy, I now
Speaker 3: know how to do it, and I know what the
Speaker 3: people are that I need, and I know the wiring
Speaker 3: of the plumbing and the system.
Speaker 2: So let's talk for a moment about the instincts. So
Speaker 2: few of the President elect's nominees for cabinet positions, not all,
Speaker 2: of course, but so few, I would say, have the
Speaker 2: resume traditionally needed to achieve high office.
Speaker 1: Why Tom, help us understand?
Speaker 2: Why is he choosing people with such limited experience and
Speaker 2: limited on a relative basis qualifications.
Speaker 3: I don't know that's limited qualifications, right, qualifications.
Speaker 2: On a relative basis. If you look at the resumes
Speaker 2: of the people who got those jobs in the last administration,
Speaker 2: in the first Trump administration and administrations going back decades,
Speaker 2: they were quote unquote more qualified.
Speaker 3: Well more qualified of being in the system. But the
Speaker 3: America people just said to Donald Trump, is we believe you,
Speaker 3: We understand you. We we are not supporting the system.
Speaker 3: It's not working for us. It's not working in housing,
Speaker 3: it's not working in medicare, it's not working with our children.
Speaker 3: We can't say God in school. We don't want our
Speaker 3: boys to become girls or girls to become boys. That's
Speaker 3: out of the system. So I disagree the qualification for
Speaker 3: the system, for the bureaucracy right when we're talking about
Speaker 3: the deep state or the establishment, and the establishment is
Speaker 3: not bad, right, These people are not bad. It's it's
Speaker 3: not corrupt, it's corroded. So to come in with a
Speaker 3: new frame of mind, with a new set of people
Speaker 3: who have integrity, have commitment, have dedication, who understand a
Speaker 3: different program is.
Speaker 1: What you need to move the cheese you need. You
Speaker 1: need to break the system. You need to move that.
Speaker 1: You need to break the system.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean, and you're saying that, it's it's it's
Speaker 2: important to hear you say that because you're not I
Speaker 2: know this. We've known each other long enough.
Speaker 1: You're not a burn it.
Speaker 2: Down kind of a guy. Absolutely, you've found ways to
Speaker 2: succeed inside the system. Trump in many ways has success
Speaker 2: in spite of the system. And now he kind of
Speaker 2: wants to burn it down. Is burning it down in principle,
Speaker 2: is the risks that you take in burning it down,
Speaker 2: the risks that you take with the rule of law,
Speaker 2: the risks that you take with civil rights, the risks
Speaker 2: that you take with military competence, the risks that you
Speaker 2: take with financial markets. Are they worth it? Are they
Speaker 2: worth the prize that potentially is there at the end
Speaker 2: of the day when you've burnt it down.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And he's not burning it down. And the price
Speaker 3: is freedom in America, right, I mean, that's what we're
Speaker 3: looking for, is the American dream to be reinstated. So
Speaker 3: if you look at how what he's doing, it's analog
Speaker 3: to digital right. We have a federal government that is
Speaker 3: not corrupt. These the Justice Department itself, we all talk about.
Speaker 3: That is kind of the mainstay of the focus of
Speaker 3: these atrocities that have happened. Steve Bannon in jail twenty
Speaker 3: seven of his associates indict what they've done to him
Speaker 3: time in and time out. In my opinion, is not
Speaker 3: because Merrick Garland is correct, or least a Monaco is corrupt,
Speaker 3: or the civil servants, the ninety four US attorneys.
Speaker 1: That are there.
Speaker 3: They're not corrupt, they're corroded. The system doesn't work. You
Speaker 3: have to change the system. And the only way you
Speaker 3: can change the system is from the bottom and from
Speaker 3: the top.
Speaker 1: And yes, he's going to do it.
Speaker 3: His appointments absolutely understand the program. Congress now is on side.
Speaker 3: But by the way, Congress is not so easy. Right,
Speaker 3: if you're a sinner in Congress, you don't want your
Speaker 3: fiefdoms to be totally taken away from you with someone
Speaker 3: else's decision. So his artfulness in dealing with Congress will
Speaker 3: be better. But these people are first class choices at Tulsa. Gabber,
Speaker 3: Bobby Kennedy, just.
Speaker 2: Now, you make it sound so reasonable. But even some
Speaker 2: Republicans look at a nomination of a Matt Gates say themselves,
Speaker 2: WTF what is Trump doing? Is that a serious nomination
Speaker 2: or is that sort of a joke or perhaps a
Speaker 2: maneuver of some sort.
Speaker 3: Obviously I can't speak for the president. I can tell
Speaker 3: you it's not a joke.
Speaker 1: So what is he doing.
Speaker 3: He's disintermediating everything we've lived in ten years of disintermediation
Speaker 3: of everything that we've not used. Right, every company that
Speaker 3: was was triple A ten years ago is almost non
Speaker 3: existent today. So it's the same thing a Matt Gates,
Speaker 3: his pick of a Matt Gates going into something like
Speaker 3: the Justice Department. Right when you think of the thousands
Speaker 3: of GS twelve's, GS eleven's, GS ten's lawyers, FBI agents
Speaker 3: has to have some chilling effect, his qualification, hilling effect. Well,
Speaker 3: he's not there yet. His qualifications will be vetted by
Speaker 3: the Senate. Do you want somebody out of the system
Speaker 3: that's been a critique of the system when the people
Speaker 3: in America are saying the system's not working for us.
Speaker 3: None of it is working for us. So put somebody
Speaker 3: in who agrees the system isn't working. He can't move
Speaker 3: it individually.
Speaker 2: Surely Matt Gates is not the only person who thinks
Speaker 2: the system isn't working. There are a lot of people
Speaker 2: to choose from.
Speaker 1: Yes, there are. And Matt was a loyalist.
Speaker 3: He took on heavy duty fire in the midst of
Speaker 3: a lot of controversial things.
Speaker 1: And the president knows what he's doing. I think we
Speaker 1: should just.
Speaker 3: Give him a chance trust his instincts. This man has
Speaker 3: been thinking about all of this for four years. He
Speaker 3: had four years of unbelievable experience. He's going to do
Speaker 3: the right thing for all of us, and it's not retribution,
Speaker 3: it's not devisiveness. In his mind, his legacy is the
Speaker 3: most important thing to him at the time. Promises made,
Speaker 3: promises kept along that.
Speaker 2: Road, Promises made, promises. Capt Tom, I think back to
Speaker 2: a conversation that you and I had in twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: and it was, for very unpleasant reasons for you, an
Speaker 2: untimely conversation, but it was timely in the sense that
Speaker 2: it gave you a chance to reflect on where you'd
Speaker 2: been with the president in his first term. And one
Speaker 2: thing you told me is that you didn't want to
Speaker 2: be part of a campaign built on divisiveness. If the
Speaker 2: president wanted to take a President Trump wanted to take
Speaker 2: a second run at the White House, This was a
Speaker 2: campaign built on divisivests.
Speaker 1: How did you get over that?
Speaker 3: Well, the reason that I entered into it is I
Speaker 3: had been a subject of a nine count indictment by
Speaker 3: the Eastern District.
Speaker 2: Although you didn't know it at the time. You didn't
Speaker 2: know that was coming when we spoke.
Speaker 1: It was just.
Speaker 3: Before but I wasn't involved in the campaign at that time,
Speaker 3: so I had done my service for him, for the country.
Speaker 1: I was honored.
Speaker 3: I couldn't believe that, you know, a Lebanese financial lawyer
Speaker 3: like myself could ever work for the president of the
Speaker 3: United States. And then and then it starts, and I
Speaker 3: look at that experience of saying, fine, if you fly
Speaker 3: at forty thousand feet, it's not I'm being targeted. But
Speaker 3: I'm not being targeted out of corruption. I'm being targeted
Speaker 3: because the political will of the other side is saying, ah,
Speaker 3: we need, we need to mobilize our political agenda.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: Fortunately I had the resources to be capable of mounting
Speaker 3: a defense. So what my whole experience was is the
Speaker 3: system works, right, the system works. I had a one
Speaker 3: and a half year experience. I had a two month trial,
Speaker 3: this judge and the jury and one day a full acquittal.
Speaker 3: The average person doesn't do that. So in the Justice Department.
Speaker 3: And I'm getting to why Trump Trump, Trump has gone
Speaker 3: through this since Spain. Nobody knows what it does.
Speaker 1: To your life.
Speaker 3: This man can suffer absorb more pain than any human
Speaker 3: being I have ever seen what it does to lives.
Speaker 3: What's under the lives of all the people around Rogerston
Speaker 3: and Paul Manafort, Steve Bannon, They've all been attacked. So
Speaker 3: for me coming back and saying I was honored to
Speaker 3: be a part of it. I went through this system,
Speaker 3: and I admire the system, and I don't have anger
Speaker 3: revenge even that the people who brought those charges against me,
Speaker 3: I understand what they're doing.
Speaker 1: But it's got to be fixed. It has to end.
Speaker 3: It has to end, not prosecuting Democrats, not prosecuting the
Speaker 3: existing prosecutors, not prosecuting the political people who were there before.
Speaker 1: We have to say a time out. This isn't Venezuela.
Speaker 1: We need a new system.
Speaker 2: Okay, yes or no, That's all I'm going to ask.
Speaker 2: Should Donald Trump, is one of his first access president,
Speaker 2: pardon anybody who might otherwise be prosecuted for the same
Speaker 2: reasons on the democratic side.
Speaker 1: That's up to the president.
Speaker 3: It's yesterday, it's way outside of it, all right.
Speaker 2: Tom, It's been wonderful.
Speaker 1: Having you here. Thank you so very much. Great to
Speaker 1: see you.
Speaker 2: Tom Barrick, the founder of Colony Capital,