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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: Tom, it's great to have you here, back at Bloomberg,

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Speaker 2: so good to be with you.

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Speaker 1: It's back to the future a bit. Tom.

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Speaker 2: It's worth reminding everybody a little bit about your relationship

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Speaker 2: with the president elect. Joe just told us, and he's

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Speaker 2: absolutely right, of course, that you were chairman of the

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Speaker 2: inauguration back in twenty sixteen. You were, of course then

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Speaker 2: President Trump's biggest fundraiser at the time. You and he

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Speaker 2: go back more than forty years. It gives you unique

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Speaker 2: insights into the man and more importantly, what Trump two

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Speaker 2: point zero is going to be like. One of the

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Speaker 2: things that people want to know most is how Trump

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Speaker 2: two point.

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Speaker 1: Zero is going to be different from Trump one point Oh.

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Speaker 1: Tell us, so, first.

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Speaker 3: Of all, the insight into the man going back forty

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Speaker 3: years his I've learned one thing, trust his instincts. And

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Speaker 3: I think what the country now has decided is that

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Speaker 3: all the rhetoric, all the confusion, all the drama around

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Speaker 3: how it may be presented, this is not only one

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Speaker 3: of the greatest political athletes that we've ever seen. He's

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Speaker 3: just one of the greatest athletes. But the question I

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Speaker 3: think on what two point zero is. It's going to

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Speaker 3: be hopeful, phenomenal and much better I think than even

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Speaker 3: the other side, in fear of what might be coming.

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Speaker 1: Will accept.

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Speaker 3: Why because think about in twenty sixteen we were together,

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Speaker 3: we were having this conversation. You have a man who's

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Speaker 3: one of the best builder, developers, financiers in the world,

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Speaker 3: a reality talk show host for thirteen years on The Apprentice,

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Speaker 3: zero political experience zero washingtonsters. Right in those if you

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Speaker 3: had to go out of the two one two area

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Speaker 3: code in those days, it was a flurry.

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Speaker 1: Comes to Washington.

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Speaker 3: Putting a team together, right, We all thought we were

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Speaker 3: putting the best team together. You had to find resources

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Speaker 3: to do with people were apprehensive of doing it, and

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Speaker 3: just finding your way around DC was not.

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Speaker 2: So is the point that he's no longer a rookie

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Speaker 2: in the job and he knows what he's doing.

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Speaker 3: Well. Not only is he not a rookie, he did

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Speaker 3: a great job. And if you think of what happened,

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Speaker 3: were right. We went from a Muslim band to no isis.

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Speaker 3: We go to a great economy and the world. We

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Speaker 3: have no problems with Mexico at the time, immigration is

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Speaker 3: under control, healthcare security, housing, all of those things seemed

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Speaker 3: to be better four years then of being attacked physically, legally, socially,

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Speaker 3: and reflecting on all of the other things. So in

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Speaker 3: that reflection of four years got him ready to say,

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Speaker 3: if I had the opportunity in the Stewarts to have

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Speaker 3: another four years and really create my legacy, I now

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Speaker 3: know how to do it, and I know what the

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Speaker 3: people are that I need, and I know the wiring

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Speaker 3: of the plumbing and the system.

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Speaker 2: So let's talk for a moment about the instincts. So

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Speaker 2: few of the President elect's nominees for cabinet positions, not all,

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Speaker 2: of course, but so few, I would say, have the

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Speaker 2: resume traditionally needed to achieve high office.

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Speaker 1: Why Tom, help us understand?

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Speaker 2: Why is he choosing people with such limited experience and

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Speaker 2: limited on a relative basis qualifications.

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Speaker 3: I don't know that's limited qualifications, right, qualifications.

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Speaker 2: On a relative basis. If you look at the resumes

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Speaker 2: of the people who got those jobs in the last administration,

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Speaker 2: in the first Trump administration and administrations going back decades,

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Speaker 2: they were quote unquote more qualified.

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Speaker 3: Well more qualified of being in the system. But the

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Speaker 3: America people just said to Donald Trump, is we believe you,

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Speaker 3: We understand you. We we are not supporting the system.

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Speaker 3: It's not working for us. It's not working in housing,

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Speaker 3: it's not working in medicare, it's not working with our children.

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Speaker 3: We can't say God in school. We don't want our

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Speaker 3: boys to become girls or girls to become boys. That's

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Speaker 3: out of the system. So I disagree the qualification for

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Speaker 3: the system, for the bureaucracy right when we're talking about

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Speaker 3: the deep state or the establishment, and the establishment is

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Speaker 3: not bad, right, These people are not bad. It's it's

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Speaker 3: not corrupt, it's corroded. So to come in with a

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Speaker 3: new frame of mind, with a new set of people

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Speaker 3: who have integrity, have commitment, have dedication, who understand a

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Speaker 3: different program is.

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Speaker 1: What you need to move the cheese you need. You

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Speaker 1: need to break the system. You need to move that.

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Speaker 1: You need to break the system.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, I mean, and you're saying that, it's it's it's

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Speaker 2: important to hear you say that because you're not I

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Speaker 2: know this. We've known each other long enough.

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Speaker 1: You're not a burn it.

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Speaker 2: Down kind of a guy. Absolutely, you've found ways to

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Speaker 2: succeed inside the system. Trump in many ways has success

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Speaker 2: in spite of the system. And now he kind of

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Speaker 2: wants to burn it down. Is burning it down in principle,

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Speaker 2: is the risks that you take in burning it down,

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Speaker 2: the risks that you take with the rule of law,

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Speaker 2: the risks that you take with civil rights, the risks

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Speaker 2: that you take with military competence, the risks that you

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Speaker 2: take with financial markets. Are they worth it? Are they

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Speaker 2: worth the prize that potentially is there at the end

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Speaker 2: of the day when you've burnt it down.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And he's not burning it down. And the price

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Speaker 3: is freedom in America, right, I mean, that's what we're

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Speaker 3: looking for, is the American dream to be reinstated. So

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Speaker 3: if you look at how what he's doing, it's analog

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Speaker 3: to digital right. We have a federal government that is

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Speaker 3: not corrupt. These the Justice Department itself, we all talk about.

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Speaker 3: That is kind of the mainstay of the focus of

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Speaker 3: these atrocities that have happened. Steve Bannon in jail twenty

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Speaker 3: seven of his associates indict what they've done to him

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Speaker 3: time in and time out. In my opinion, is not

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Speaker 3: because Merrick Garland is correct, or least a Monaco is corrupt,

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Speaker 3: or the civil servants, the ninety four US attorneys.

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Speaker 1: That are there.

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Speaker 3: They're not corrupt, they're corroded. The system doesn't work. You

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Speaker 3: have to change the system. And the only way you

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Speaker 3: can change the system is from the bottom and from

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Speaker 3: the top.

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Speaker 1: And yes, he's going to do it.

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Speaker 3: His appointments absolutely understand the program. Congress now is on side.

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Speaker 3: But by the way, Congress is not so easy. Right,

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Speaker 3: if you're a sinner in Congress, you don't want your

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Speaker 3: fiefdoms to be totally taken away from you with someone

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Speaker 3: else's decision. So his artfulness in dealing with Congress will

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Speaker 3: be better. But these people are first class choices at Tulsa. Gabber,

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Speaker 3: Bobby Kennedy, just.

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Speaker 2: Now, you make it sound so reasonable. But even some

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Speaker 2: Republicans look at a nomination of a Matt Gates say themselves,

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Speaker 2: WTF what is Trump doing? Is that a serious nomination

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Speaker 2: or is that sort of a joke or perhaps a

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Speaker 2: maneuver of some sort.

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Speaker 3: Obviously I can't speak for the president. I can tell

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Speaker 3: you it's not a joke.

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Speaker 1: So what is he doing.

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Speaker 3: He's disintermediating everything we've lived in ten years of disintermediation

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Speaker 3: of everything that we've not used. Right, every company that

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Speaker 3: was was triple A ten years ago is almost non

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Speaker 3: existent today. So it's the same thing a Matt Gates,

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Speaker 3: his pick of a Matt Gates going into something like

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Speaker 3: the Justice Department. Right when you think of the thousands

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Speaker 3: of GS twelve's, GS eleven's, GS ten's lawyers, FBI agents

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Speaker 3: has to have some chilling effect, his qualification, hilling effect. Well,

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Speaker 3: he's not there yet. His qualifications will be vetted by

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Speaker 3: the Senate. Do you want somebody out of the system

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Speaker 3: that's been a critique of the system when the people

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Speaker 3: in America are saying the system's not working for us.

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Speaker 3: None of it is working for us. So put somebody

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Speaker 3: in who agrees the system isn't working. He can't move

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Speaker 3: it individually.

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Speaker 2: Surely Matt Gates is not the only person who thinks

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Speaker 2: the system isn't working. There are a lot of people

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Speaker 2: to choose from.

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Speaker 1: Yes, there are. And Matt was a loyalist.

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Speaker 3: He took on heavy duty fire in the midst of

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Speaker 3: a lot of controversial things.

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Speaker 1: And the president knows what he's doing. I think we

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Speaker 1: should just.

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Speaker 3: Give him a chance trust his instincts. This man has

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Speaker 3: been thinking about all of this for four years. He

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Speaker 3: had four years of unbelievable experience. He's going to do

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Speaker 3: the right thing for all of us, and it's not retribution,

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Speaker 3: it's not devisiveness. In his mind, his legacy is the

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Speaker 3: most important thing to him at the time. Promises made,

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Speaker 3: promises kept along that.

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Speaker 2: Road, Promises made, promises. Capt Tom, I think back to

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Speaker 2: a conversation that you and I had in twenty twenty one,

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Speaker 2: and it was, for very unpleasant reasons for you, an

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Speaker 2: untimely conversation, but it was timely in the sense that

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Speaker 2: it gave you a chance to reflect on where you'd

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Speaker 2: been with the president in his first term. And one

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Speaker 2: thing you told me is that you didn't want to

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Speaker 2: be part of a campaign built on divisiveness. If the

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Speaker 2: president wanted to take a President Trump wanted to take

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Speaker 2: a second run at the White House, This was a

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Speaker 2: campaign built on divisivests.

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Speaker 1: How did you get over that?

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Speaker 3: Well, the reason that I entered into it is I

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Speaker 3: had been a subject of a nine count indictment by

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Speaker 3: the Eastern District.

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Speaker 2: Although you didn't know it at the time. You didn't

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Speaker 2: know that was coming when we spoke.

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Speaker 1: It was just.

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Speaker 3: Before but I wasn't involved in the campaign at that time,

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Speaker 3: so I had done my service for him, for the country.

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Speaker 1: I was honored.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't believe that, you know, a Lebanese financial lawyer

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Speaker 3: like myself could ever work for the president of the

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Speaker 3: United States. And then and then it starts, and I

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Speaker 3: look at that experience of saying, fine, if you fly

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Speaker 3: at forty thousand feet, it's not I'm being targeted. But

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Speaker 3: I'm not being targeted out of corruption. I'm being targeted

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Speaker 3: because the political will of the other side is saying, ah,

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Speaker 3: we need, we need to mobilize our political agenda.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 3: Fortunately I had the resources to be capable of mounting

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Speaker 3: a defense. So what my whole experience was is the

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Speaker 3: system works, right, the system works. I had a one

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Speaker 3: and a half year experience. I had a two month trial,

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Speaker 3: this judge and the jury and one day a full acquittal.

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Speaker 3: The average person doesn't do that. So in the Justice Department.

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Speaker 3: And I'm getting to why Trump Trump, Trump has gone

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Speaker 3: through this since Spain. Nobody knows what it does.

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Speaker 1: To your life.

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Speaker 3: This man can suffer absorb more pain than any human

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Speaker 3: being I have ever seen what it does to lives.

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Speaker 3: What's under the lives of all the people around Rogerston

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Speaker 3: and Paul Manafort, Steve Bannon, They've all been attacked. So

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Speaker 3: for me coming back and saying I was honored to

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Speaker 3: be a part of it. I went through this system,

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Speaker 3: and I admire the system, and I don't have anger

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Speaker 3: revenge even that the people who brought those charges against me,

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Speaker 3: I understand what they're doing.

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Speaker 1: But it's got to be fixed. It has to end.

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Speaker 3: It has to end, not prosecuting Democrats, not prosecuting the

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Speaker 3: existing prosecutors, not prosecuting the political people who were there before.

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Speaker 1: We have to say a time out. This isn't Venezuela.

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Speaker 1: We need a new system.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yes or no, That's all I'm going to ask.

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Speaker 2: Should Donald Trump, is one of his first access president,

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Speaker 2: pardon anybody who might otherwise be prosecuted for the same

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Speaker 2: reasons on the democratic side.

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Speaker 1: That's up to the president.

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Speaker 3: It's yesterday, it's way outside of it, all right.

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Speaker 2: Tom, It's been wonderful.

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Speaker 1: Having you here. Thank you so very much. Great to

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Speaker 1: see you.

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Speaker 2: Tom Barrick, the founder of Colony Capital,