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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed the top political headlines with some of

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Speaker 1: today's best minds, and Trump was asked about raising his kids.

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Speaker 1: He went on an eight minute rant calling for the

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Speaker 1: death penalty, and actually I listened to that rant and

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Speaker 1: it was wild. We have such a great show for you.

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Speaker 1: TPMs Josh Marshall joins us to talk about the state

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Speaker 1: of the race. Then we'll talk to the executive director

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Speaker 1: of the West Alabama Women's Center, Robin Marty, about the

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Speaker 1: horror she's seeing in post rural America.

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Speaker 2: So, Molly, you and I have been pretty obsessed with

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Speaker 2: the state of Florida not being able to be insured

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Speaker 2: by many insurance companies. And after these foods this article

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Speaker 2: today in The Times, it sent me what did you

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Speaker 2: see here?

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Speaker 1: So I just one of the big problems in Florida

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Speaker 1: is inflation. And inflation in Florida is much higher than

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Speaker 1: in other places. And part of that is because insurance.

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Speaker 1: Housing insurance in Florida is insane, and that's because of

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Speaker 1: climate change. Right, It's more and more expensive to ensure

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Speaker 1: waterfront property or even property that's just in low lying

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Speaker 1: areas because of flooding, and in North Carolina this has

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Speaker 1: become such a big deal that a proposed forty two

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Speaker 1: percent rate hike and then they just had another hurricane,

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Speaker 1: Hurricane Helene, which was like this hurricane where you know,

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Speaker 1: more than two hundred people died, major, major flooding, people

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Speaker 1: you know, cut off from food and water and internet

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Speaker 1: and power. What insurance is like the first canary in

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Speaker 1: the coal mine when it comes to climate change, and

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Speaker 1: we're seeing this firsthand. And now the question is will

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Speaker 1: people vote on the fact that some of the inflation

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Speaker 1: is actually caused by climate change? And the answers we

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Speaker 1: don't know, but it certainly is an issue, and especially

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Speaker 1: in North Carolina, which is a very tight state where

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Speaker 1: it's possible that Vice President Harris could actually win that state.

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Speaker 1: Jesse Cannon, I saw a movie this week.

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Speaker 2: Let me guess it was Beetlejuice.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it was Beetlejuice. That's a deep cut and a

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Speaker 1: callback to Lauren Boeberg.

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Speaker 2: That's not sure there's a new Beetlejuice in theaters. Lauren

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Speaker 2: and I saw it the other night and it was great.

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Speaker 1: Oh that is something.

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Speaker 2: But what I think you went and saw is a

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Speaker 2: movie that a lot of people are kind of pissed

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Speaker 2: about because they thought that this was going to be

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Speaker 2: like a big activism movie that changed the voting base,

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Speaker 2: like it did when Michael Moore would put out movies

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Speaker 2: before elections. Would you see here?

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Speaker 1: I don't know that that's actually true.

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Speaker 2: That's what my Twitter feed is saying.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, well, then that's even more likely to be untrue.

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Speaker 1: But The Apprentice is a movie about early Donald Trump

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Speaker 1: and Roy Cone, and it's quite actually very interesting. It

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Speaker 1: has a lot of very controversial stuff in it, including

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Speaker 1: a rape sea in that again has been in books

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Speaker 1: about Trump. Again, I don't know. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: quite good and pretty interesting. It's going to open this

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Speaker 1: week in seventeen hundred and forty theaters nationwide, so there's

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Speaker 1: a real opportunity to see it if you want. It

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Speaker 1: does not yet have a streaming service attached to it,

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Speaker 1: but hopefully it will. Pretty interesting movie. I'm not sure

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Speaker 1: that it does anything for the selection, but it's still

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Speaker 1: worth seeing Trump's origin story played out on the big screen.

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Speaker 1: Interesting stuff. When it comes to weather, huh.

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Speaker 2: Really, there was a weather event here, a thing that

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Speaker 2: really seemed to scare everybody. This week. Aside from the

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Speaker 2: impact of the storm, was just how crazy the reactions

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Speaker 2: to Democrats could draw the weather and other things were.

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Speaker 2: But there were some interesting details with this hurricane, Milton,

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Speaker 2: what did you see?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so Republicans doubled down, or at least Marjorie Taylor

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Speaker 1: Green did on the idea that they quote unquote likely

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Speaker 1: was Jews. Though then some of Maga world said that

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Speaker 1: actually the government is doing cloud seating. Now, I just

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Speaker 1: want to pause for a second to talk about cloud seating.

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Speaker 1: That is something that exists, and it's in the very

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Speaker 1: very early stages. Nobody is moving hurricanes around with it.

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Speaker 1: They are able to do some very minor stuff. I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's anywhere near where it would need to

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Speaker 1: be to be an active government controlling the weather. But

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Speaker 1: there is a little bit of a like with so

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Speaker 1: many conspiracies, a little bit of a gem of information

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Speaker 1: here that is real and then a lot of bullshit.

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Speaker 1: So Jews are not controlling hurricanes and Democrats are not

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Speaker 1: controlling hurricanes. And by the way, hurricanes have always hit

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Speaker 1: in places like Florida and North Carolina. I mean that

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Speaker 1: is you know, that's where they hit. It's very unusual

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Speaker 1: for them to hit places that are not where you know,

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Speaker 1: where the water is warm enough to start a hurricane,

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Speaker 1: and then for it to continue on and tends to

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Speaker 1: be on the coastline. So this is pretty crazy. There

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Speaker 1: are definitely Trump supporters who believe this, which is wild.

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Speaker 1: And I would say there was also really some interesting

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Speaker 1: stuff that there was a sort of reverse storm surge

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Speaker 1: and the water was sucked out of Tampa Bay by

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Speaker 1: Hurricane Milton. But in the end, the good news is

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Speaker 1: that while there was damage, it wasn't nearly as bad

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Speaker 1: as a lot of people thought it was. And while

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Speaker 1: they got the path right and ended up being just

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Speaker 1: a category three and not a category five. And while

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Speaker 1: the storm storm surge was bad, it was not as

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Speaker 1: bad as people had forecasted. So that's quite good news.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of people have you know, a lot

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Speaker 1: of people don't have power, but they're getting their lives

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Speaker 1: back to back on track, so that's great news. I

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Speaker 1: want you to talk to us Jesse Cannon about Trump

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Speaker 1: versus cities.

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Speaker 2: Well, previously he had said that San Francisco was great

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Speaker 2: in a certain era. It happened to be with Gavin

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Speaker 2: Dus some of his least favorite governor and Kamala Harris

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Speaker 2: were both in charge of San Francisco, so that was funny.

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Speaker 2: But now he's demonizing Detroit. He loves demonizing other places.

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Speaker 2: He called Milwaukee a horrible city. You and I and

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Speaker 2: Molly were just in Milwaukee. We thought it was a

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Speaker 2: lovely city and had some great pizza there.

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Speaker 1: We really had some good pizza there. And I want

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Speaker 1: to point out this is his way of dog whistling. Right,

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Speaker 1: He's saying that the cities are not good and that

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Speaker 1: Harris will make all of your suburban areas cities. And

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Speaker 1: what he's saying, right, is that he's saying that cities

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Speaker 1: which where sometimes they have a larger black population, that

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Speaker 1: if Harris it becomes president, then she will make your

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Speaker 1: suburbs more black. And it's a racist dog whistle. It's

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Speaker 1: totally just, but no one is surprised by it. Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump this week went to the Detroit Economic Club and

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Speaker 1: instead of talking about anything particularly relevant, he spent the

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Speaker 1: time trashing Detroit. This is so much a part of

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Speaker 1: his playbook. Molly.

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Speaker 2: The election is a mere twenty five days away now,

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Speaker 2: as I can see from the countdown clock on my desk,

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Speaker 2: that I have here that counts down my anxiety. But

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Speaker 2: this new pupil says that the election will probably come

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Speaker 2: down to a mere thirty percent of voters who are

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Speaker 2: still persuadable.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you know what, I'm going to say one thing.

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Speaker 1: That's a tight election. And Pew found it eighty two

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Speaker 1: percent of voters locked in forty two for Harris and

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Speaker 1: forty for Trump, and there's five percent who has no preference.

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Speaker 1: And you have about thirteen percent of voters who are

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Speaker 1: still persuadable. Get out there, talk to your friends, talk

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Speaker 1: to your kids, talk to your kid's friends. This is

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Speaker 1: the moment. Twenty five days is a lot of days, right,

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Speaker 1: you have a chance to go and talk to people

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Speaker 1: and make the case and remind Americans what is at

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Speaker 1: stake here. You know, a lot of people have mothers, daughters, cousins, sisters, aunts. Right,

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Speaker 1: did they want to have children? Do they want to

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Speaker 1: have medical care? Do they want to be able to,

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Speaker 1: you know, if they are having a miscarriage, do they

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Speaker 1: want to be able to take the medicine that they

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Speaker 1: need for that? Because if they do, then they want

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Speaker 1: to vote for the vice president. And twenty five days

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Speaker 1: is a lot of days, so he's got to keep going.

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Speaker 2: Agreed, Somali. You and I, between the two of us

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Speaker 2: five dogs. We are very big dog lovers. Normally we

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Speaker 2: would not devote time on the show to the story

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Speaker 2: of a dog, but you pulled my heartstrings and I

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Speaker 2: gave it.

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Speaker 1: That dog situation is making me completely crazy. So in Florida,

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Speaker 1: a state trooper found a dog that was tied to

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Speaker 1: a pole. The dog is safe, he's been rescued. His

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Speaker 1: name is now Trooper. He's at the Lyon County Humane

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Speaker 1: Society in Florida, available for adoption. So whoever put him

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Speaker 1: on that, whoever tied him to that, Paul, you know

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Speaker 1: it's just a disgusting thing to do, and really atrocious,

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Speaker 1: terrible stuff.

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Speaker 2: Agreed that. I know you're trying to hedge here and

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Speaker 2: not say something bad, but just know that every bad

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Speaker 2: thought is in our heads.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, really true.

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Speaker 2: We have even more tour dates for you. Did you

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Speaker 2: know the Lincoln projects Rick Wills that have Fast Politics

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Speaker 2: Maleijug Fast are heading out on tour to bring you

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Speaker 2: a night of laughs for our dark political landscape. Join

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Speaker 2: us on August twenty sixth at San Francisco at the

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Speaker 2: Swedish American Hall or in LA on August twenty seventh

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Speaker 2: at the Region Theater. Then we're headed to the Midwest.

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Speaker 2: We'll be at the Bavariam in Milwaukee on the twenty

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Speaker 2: first of September, and on the twenty second we'll be

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Speaker 2: in Chicago at City Winery. Then we're going to hit

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Speaker 2: the East coast. September thirtieth, will be in Arts at

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Speaker 2: the Armory. On the first of October, we'll be in

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Speaker 2: affiliate City Winery, and then DC on the second at

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Speaker 2: the Miracle Theater. And today we just announced that we'll

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Speaker 2: be in New York on the fourteenth of October at

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Speaker 2: City Winery. If you need to laugh as we get

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Speaker 2: through this election and hopefully never hear from a guy

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Speaker 2: who lives in a golf club again, we got you covered.

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Speaker 2: Join us in our surprise guests to help you laugh

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Speaker 2: instead of cry your way through this election season and

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Speaker 2: as Unusual dot bio. That's Politics as Unusual dot bio.

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Speaker 1: Josh Marshall is the editor of Talking Points Memo. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Fast Politics.

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Speaker 3: Josh thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: How worried are you about those elections?

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Speaker 3: I would not say I am more worried than I've

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Speaker 3: been at other points.

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Speaker 1: Oh. Interesting.

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Speaker 3: You know there's a thing that pilots, people who fly planes.

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Speaker 3: I'm not a pilot, if anything, I'm a little I'm

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Speaker 3: not a big fan of flying.

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Speaker 1: But would you say you had a f are flying.

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Speaker 1: I'll see myself as yeah.

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Speaker 3: I know, but in fact I get the reference. But

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Speaker 3: in fact, but in fact, I've been sort of an

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Speaker 3: aerophobic my whole life. Actually I have it under control

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Speaker 3: now I fly. But in any case, pilots are taught

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Speaker 3: you have regular flying rules, then you have instrument flying rules.

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Speaker 3: And this is something that pilots are taught that when

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Speaker 3: you are in certain conditions, you are taught to ignore

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Speaker 3: your sensations, what you think is up, what you think

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Speaker 3: is down, all of that stuff. You look at your

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Speaker 3: instrument pans, and your instrument panel tells you where you're going,

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Speaker 3: tells you what is up, what is down. Because it

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Speaker 3: is one of these established things over the century plus

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Speaker 3: now of people flying that your perceptions in a storm,

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Speaker 3: in bad weather, your perceptions get wrong. They're unreliable, and

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Speaker 3: so they are taught to I don't know if it's

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Speaker 3: a zen thing exactly, but to ignore completely nor your

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Speaker 3: phenomenology of flying what you feel is happening, and you

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Speaker 3: watch your instrument panel. And I have seen over the

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Speaker 3: last you know, I think everybody has seen over the

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Speaker 3: last week. The Democrats are really freaking out now about

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Speaker 3: the election, and I am not immune to that. But

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Speaker 3: I am looking at the instrument panel and I actually

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Speaker 3: don't see much changing on the instrument panel. And I

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Speaker 3: try to keep my eyes closely on the instrument panel.

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Speaker 3: So that's that's where I am. I think we are

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Speaker 3: basically in the same election that we were in two

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Speaker 3: weeks ago. There has been some sort of fractional tightening

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Speaker 3: in the polls tents of percentage points. When I actually

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Speaker 3: look at the details, it's not clear to me. That's

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Speaker 3: not noise in different polsters, you know, different posters polling

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Speaker 3: more over the last week and stuff. So that's where

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Speaker 3: I'm at, you know, I try to be an instrument

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Speaker 3: panels guy precisely because there's so many inputs, there are

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Speaker 3: so many sensations we are getting at this point in

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Speaker 3: an election. I think what we have to hope, although

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Speaker 3: I know from experience that this is not always the

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Speaker 3: case that the people actually flying the plane. You know,

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Speaker 3: we're passengers on the plane, right, you hope the people

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Speaker 3: flying the plane are also going or doing instrument panels flight.

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Speaker 3: I know from experience that is not always the case, right,

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Speaker 3: they get freaked out themselves. But that is where I am.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's interesting. Polls are not really not

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Speaker 1: a science, and then there are partisan polls getting added

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Speaker 1: into the averages. Right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no question there's a few a few of

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Speaker 3: the aggregators downweighth them more than others. But yeah, there's

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Speaker 3: a lot of there are a lot of partisan polls

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Speaker 3: in the mix.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The fundamental truth here is that Harrison's campaign wants

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Speaker 1: you to think she's losing and Trump's campaign wants you

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Speaker 1: to think he's winning. Is that correct?

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Speaker 3: Yes, that is basically correct. But I think there is

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Speaker 3: a deeper sociological truth there. I've been doing this for

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Speaker 3: twenty five years and I've seen this. I've been through

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Speaker 3: this movie many times. Democrats always think they are losing

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Speaker 3: and Republicans always think they're winning. It's a basic sociological

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Speaker 3: fact that goes beyond what they want you to think.

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Speaker 3: Like so, for instance, yes, Harris has made clear she

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Speaker 3: wants to be running as the underdog for good reasons. Right,

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Speaker 3: there's good reasons why they want to.

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Speaker 1: Well, twenty sixteen is a good reason, right.

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Speaker 3: Exactly, Well, twenty sixteen, twenty twenty. There's just a good

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Speaker 3: logic there. You don't want to be sort of sitting

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Speaker 3: on a lead. You don't want to be over comfortable.

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Speaker 3: They want to be running in that way. They want

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Speaker 3: their supporters to think they are running in that way,

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Speaker 3: and there's a lot of good reasons for running in

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Speaker 3: that way. There's also unquestionably a Trump campaign thing to think, oh,

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Speaker 3: we're doing a rally in New York Man, We're going

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Speaker 3: to run this. You know, we're going to run the table.

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Speaker 3: But what has always been the most interesting thing to

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Speaker 3: me is that, by and large, whatever the reality on

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Speaker 3: the ground, Democrats really think they are losing, or if

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Speaker 3: there's any question, they think they're losing, and Republicans always

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Speaker 3: think they're winning. It's not just a matter of what

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Speaker 3: they want you to think. This is something in the

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Speaker 3: mindset of both groups, and in a way it's not

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Speaker 3: that surprising. It's the same story about you know, civic

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Speaker 3: democrats and authoritarians. Authoritarians always think they're winning. It's the

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Speaker 3: nature of the way you think about authority and power.

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Speaker 3: It's all those things. It's all those things, you know.

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Speaker 3: One let me just add one little thing here. People

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Speaker 3: talk a lot about the twenty twenty two midterm and

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Speaker 3: the red wave stuff and all that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 3: Some of the people who were most bought into the

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Speaker 3: red wave were Democratic campaigns. Oh yeah, it's a basic

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Speaker 3: sort of sociological reality about the two big factions in

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Speaker 3: American politics, right.

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Speaker 1: Right, No, I think that's exactly right, and a big

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Speaker 1: question So and then the larger question is like can

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Speaker 1: this country understand sort of the danger that is Trump? Right,

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Speaker 1: I mean the danger to democracy? I mean in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: part of what Biden did, which I think he did

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Speaker 1: despite a lot of naysaying on the other side, was

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Speaker 1: he made the case that Donald Trump was in fact

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Speaker 1: a danger to democracy. And this was maybe not a

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Speaker 1: four year election, you know, he did make that case.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: One of the advantages that he had is that Donald

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Speaker 3: Trump was president, right, he didn't have to like kind

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Speaker 3: of jog people's memories. People were experiencing what Donald Trump

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Speaker 3: was Like, I mean, in some ways Trump's twenty twenty campaign,

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Speaker 3: the fact that he you know, that it remained close

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Speaker 3: was that I think that case had kind of been made,

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Speaker 3: and then Joe Biden was someone who was a particularly

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Speaker 3: good person to make the case to reaffirm the case.

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Speaker 3: The reason it was close is that the Trump campaign,

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, sort of early in the pandemic,

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Speaker 3: early in the campaign, whatever however you want to say,

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Speaker 3: basically said I am an idiot and a big threat

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Speaker 3: to democracy. But what about Antifa and what about the

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Speaker 3: brown people riots that are tearing down our cities? And

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Speaker 3: who's going to protect you from that? And so, yeah,

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Speaker 3: of course IMO a threat. You know, in a way,

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Speaker 3: they kind of gave up that argument and went with

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Speaker 3: this other thing, and that's how they ran the campaign.

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Speaker 3: So can people realize that it's a funny thing because

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Speaker 3: forty percent of the country doesn't care. Forty percent of

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Speaker 3: the country is on board, so it's not a matter.

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Speaker 3: They do realize it. They want another serving, And so

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Speaker 3: when we get into this conversation, you know, what can

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Speaker 3: the country realize blah blah blah blah. You know, in

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Speaker 3: some ways, we have a great consistency over these campaigns,

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Speaker 3: Donald Trump gets about forty six forty seven percent of

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Speaker 3: the vote, and it's what happens on the other side.

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Speaker 3: And so to a great extent, an unfortunate extent, a

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Speaker 3: sort of a frustrating or mind numbing extent, what you

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Speaker 3: have is the people left over are the people who

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Speaker 3: neither care about or know much of anything about politics,

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Speaker 3: which puts us into this kind of Kafka esque political

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Speaker 3: reality where it's sort of like, Okay, you people who

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Speaker 3: know nothing about politics, you're truly ignorant.

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Speaker 1: Right, I'm going to decide what happens to us.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and you don't care to cease to be ignorant.

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Speaker 3: I think, you know, Jamel Bouley has this. I think

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Speaker 3: he's no longer on Twitter, he's on Blue Sky, so

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Speaker 3: I see him talking about this sometimes, and I love

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Speaker 3: how he has just a very frank way of putting

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Speaker 3: it that you know, you see these panels of undecided voters, like,

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Speaker 3: let's be honest, these are panels people who are just

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Speaker 3: idiots about politics. They know nothing, right, And so you know,

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Speaker 3: since I'm not running a campaign, and those people, since

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Speaker 3: they don't care about politics, are not listening to this podcast, right,

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Speaker 3: So we can make fun of them till the cows

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Speaker 3: come home and it doesn't matter. But that is the reality,

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Speaker 3: and that is what makes the whole thing a very weird.

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Speaker 1: Kafka asks, yeah, because again, they don't follow it, but

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Speaker 1: they're gonna decide it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about two hurricanes in the span of

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Speaker 1: two weeks. Terrible damage, but not as terrible as some

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Speaker 1: people had thought it might be. One of the things

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Speaker 1: I'm struck by is I was listening to Ron DeSantis

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Speaker 1: de Santis's press conference on the hurricane, and it is

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Speaker 1: a very hard circle to square when you have someone

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Speaker 1: like rond Santis, who is largely known for don't say

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Speaker 1: gay and going to war with New College and all

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Speaker 1: sorts of authoritarian stuff. Is six week abortion ban, which

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Speaker 1: is wildly unpopular in a state. This guy very partisan,

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Speaker 1: very divisive. He's doing this presser on the hurricane, which

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Speaker 1: is largely not meant to be partisan. It's meant to

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Speaker 1: be just when I listen to it, I get a

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Speaker 1: little bit of a set of what Maga must be

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Speaker 1: feeling when Biden speaks to them, right, even though it's

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Speaker 1: not the same at all. Right, Because you'll remember Biden

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Speaker 1: has tried very hard to be nonpartisan, especially about things

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Speaker 1: like a natural disaster. But there is a sense where

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Speaker 1: it's the other side of the same coin. And I

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Speaker 1: just wonder where that puts us in the grand scheme

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Speaker 1: of things.

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Speaker 3: Well, it puts us not in great place. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I think you are right to the extent that it

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Speaker 3: is helpful sometimes to think about perceptions. And when you

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Speaker 3: are in a real public crisis, it is very unnerving

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Speaker 3: to have someone who you perceive as untrustworthy and predatory

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Speaker 3: calling the shots. You know, that's the person who's going

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Speaker 3: to decide who the relief goes to and stuff like that,

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Speaker 3: and that's unsettling. And that's part of the political reality

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Speaker 3: that we live in.

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Speaker 1: And we saw Trump, right, We saw Trump say things like,

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Speaker 1: you know, when he was in office that California had

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Speaker 1: all these wild fires, he didn't want to give federal

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Speaker 1: aid to California because they didn't support him. Those weren't

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Speaker 1: his people, that kind of thing. We saw that, And

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Speaker 1: I wonder how much when we thread the needle there,

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Speaker 1: you know that people remember that. And also I want

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Speaker 1: to like go back to COVID, which the massive pandemic

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Speaker 1: which changed all our lives, but now none of us

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Speaker 1: talk about anymore. The lesson that Right got from COVID

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Speaker 1: was that healthcare workers are nefarious and don't have your

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Speaker 1: best interests, which is an insane lesson to get right

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Speaker 1: from a global pandemic, But it was very much influenced

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Speaker 1: by social media and a lack of local news, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: et cetera. We're coming down the barrel of another thing

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Speaker 1: that is like the pandemic, which is climate change. Again,

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Speaker 1: there's an opportunity for people to accept these things as

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Speaker 1: what they are and see them clearly, or to see

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Speaker 1: them politicized. And I'm just curious, is there any way

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Speaker 1: to take any lessons from the pandemic and apply them

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Speaker 1: to climate change or now?

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Speaker 3: The real information is easy to get right. If you

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Speaker 3: want the real information, you can find it in a second.

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Speaker 3: Not everybody wants the real information. And I think what

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Speaker 3: we're often really saying when we have that conversation is

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Speaker 3: how do we help the people who don't want the

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Speaker 3: real information to get the real information. That's challenging. How

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Speaker 3: do you get the people who don't like spaghetti to

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Speaker 3: go to the spaghetti restaurant?

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Speaker 1: That's tough.

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Speaker 3: We have seen over the last week the beginnings of

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Speaker 3: a trajectory where we move seamlessly from enough of your

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Speaker 3: George Soros back to fake climate science.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 3: That's preventing me from rolling coal to be mean to

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Speaker 3: me and deny me my fun to George Soros is

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Speaker 3: paying Peter Struck to kill genocide conservatives with hurricanes. And

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Speaker 3: that's why we're seeing all these hurricanes because the Democrats

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Speaker 3: are doing it because they're in league with the deep state.

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Speaker 3: So you do have a sense of sort of like

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Speaker 3: maybe there's always been this sense, kind of a grim

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Speaker 3: sense for people who follow the trajectory of the global

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Speaker 3: climate that at some point people are going to see

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Speaker 3: that this is real. And I think what we're seeing

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Speaker 3: the beginnings of is that people are seeing that the

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Speaker 3: climate is actually changing, but they have come up with

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Speaker 3: a new self referential story to explain it to themselves.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what the good answer to that is.

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Speaker 1: Were you surprised to see Marjorie Taylored Crane go for

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Speaker 1: the jug or not and say, I mean, now, there

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Speaker 1: is a substantial percentage of Republicans in this country who

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Speaker 1: believe that the government can in fact control the weather

436
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,520
Speaker 1: and by the government. We all mean they, yeah, they.

437
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,679
Speaker 3: When I saw her tweet about that four or five

438
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,800
Speaker 3: days ago, I'm embarrassed to say I was a little surprised.

439
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,920
Speaker 3: But then I saw and I kind of dug into

440
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,199
Speaker 3: this a little that that thing has. Like when she

441
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 3: did the Jewish space lasers thing. There, if you if

442
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 3: you dug into that, there was not a Jewish space

443
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 3: lasers ground swell. Right, there is a weather manipulation ground swell.

444
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,600
Speaker 3: It's it's actually a thing. I'm not saying it's up

445
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,760
Speaker 3: there with the big Lie yet, you know, in terms

446
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 3: of being universal, but yes, it actually is a thing.

447
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 3: And when you dig into it, people say, well, you know,

448
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,840
Speaker 3: what about seeding clouds, which obviously has been a kind

449
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:35,400
Speaker 3: of marginal thing for decades. Right, if you have if

450
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 3: if there's a chance it might rain, if you put

451
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,520
Speaker 3: a little piper cub up there, and I don't know,

452
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 3: there's some crystals you spread around, it might you know,

453
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 3: marginally increase the chance of rain. And there is a

454
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 3: new science of geoengineering, which is a controversial offshoot of

455
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 3: climate thought of sort of like if we lose the

456
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 3: battle on carbon emissions, are we going to have to

457
00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,800
Speaker 3: come in here? And try to reverse it by some

458
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 3: you know, risky the efforts. Can we use science to

459
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 3: actually turn back the clock on climate change? So people

460
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,400
Speaker 3: are seeing these things and that's the evidence, Like, oh,

461
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,560
Speaker 3: you're saying we can't engineer the climate, then why are

462
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 3: these conferences happening if this isn't real? So it's what

463
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 3: are you going to say?

464
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: It's not great?

465
00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 3: It's out there. No, it's not great. It's not great,

466
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 3: not good, suboptimal, not.

467
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,919
Speaker 1: Great, suboptimal. Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.

468
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 3: Josh absolutely always a pleasure to come on.

469
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 1: Are you concerned about Project twenty twenty five and how

470
00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 1: awful Trump's second term could be? Well, so are we,

471
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 1: which is why we teamed up with iHeart to make

472
00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,639
Speaker 1: a limited series with the experts on what a disaster

473
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 1: Project twenty twenty five would be for America's future. Right now,

474
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,160
Speaker 1: we have just released the final episode of this five

475
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,240
Speaker 1: episode series. They're all available by looking up Molly John

476
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: Fast Project twenty twenty five on YouTube And if you

477
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,560
Speaker 1: are more of a podcast person and not say a YouTuber,

478
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:02,399
Speaker 1: you can hit play and put your phone in the

479
00:26:02,440 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: lock screen and it will play back just like a podcast.

480
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,119
Speaker 1: All five episodes are online now. We need to educate

481
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: Americans on what Trump's second term would or could do

482
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: to this country, So please watch it and spread the word.

483
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: Robin Marty is the executive director of the West Alabama

484
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 1: Women's Center and the author of the New Handbook for

485
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: a Post Row America. But first the news. Welcome back

486
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:32,719
Speaker 1: to Fast Politics, Robin.

487
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,000
Speaker 4: Of course, I am always always happy to fop you, moli.

488
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 1: You are one of my go tos when I want

489
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:41,120
Speaker 1: to know what the fuck is really happening with reproductive

490
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 1: rights in the Red States. Tell us what you were

491
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 1: doing when we first met, before the post Row Handbook,

492
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: when the salad days of women having some reproductive.

493
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,719
Speaker 4: Rights, well, I mean I wouldn't call them the salad

494
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 4: days nice because it was still a really front lance.

495
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: And you are in the state of Alabama, which is

496
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: a red state, like a real red state.

497
00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 4: It is a real red state. I think that is

498
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 4: like if you could get blood red, that is I

499
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 4: mean literally our blood. At this point in Alabama, even

500
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:21,239
Speaker 4: before Row was overturned, there were three abortion clinics that

501
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 4: were active, and the one that I had been working

502
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 4: at was the West Alabama Women's Center, which was responsible

503
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 4: for about half of the abortions in the state of Alabama,

504
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 4: and what that meant in the pre road days was

505
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 4: probably around three thousand people coming through in order to

506
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:44,520
Speaker 4: access abortion, mostly Alabamians, but some Mississippi people because there

507
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 4: was only one clinic in Mississippi. Also Florida people because

508
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,040
Speaker 4: there weren't any safe clinics in the Florida Panhandle. And

509
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,880
Speaker 4: then in the year right before Row, that also meant

510
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,479
Speaker 4: Louisiana and Texas because Louisiana was losing its clinic access

511
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 4: and also being overrun by tech sins because Texans had

512
00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 4: lost access in September of twenty twenty one for as

513
00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 4: early as anything after six weeks.

514
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: That was state builite.

515
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, we were essentially there to take in the flood

516
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,359
Speaker 4: of people who needed care, and then Dobbs happened and

517
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 4: we had to shut it off immediately, and ever since

518
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 4: then we have been dealing with what I mean really

519
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 4: feels like the aftermath. I think that we knew that

520
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:31,919
Speaker 4: bad things were happening. We knew them internally seeing the

521
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 4: reports that are starting to come out through like say

522
00:28:34,119 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 4: pro Public. Understand that these are reports that are coming

523
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,840
Speaker 4: out about death from people who were unable to access

524
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 4: safe abortion care or safe follow up care. And these

525
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 4: reports are coming out now because the reality is that

526
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 4: for this population who's most affected, which is largely poor,

527
00:28:53,440 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 4: largely black, there wasn't a sense of recourse for people

528
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 4: to say something was not right here. We want an

529
00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 4: investigation or to go to the newspaper, like when we

530
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 4: look at real time data and the people who are

531
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,760
Speaker 4: being turned away and the stories that we hear about

532
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 4: this person couldn't get an abortion in the hospital even

533
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 4: though she was getting sick. This person had to travel

534
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 4: out of state to get an abortion even though the

535
00:29:20,840 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 4: baby was non viable. These are almost all entirely privileged

536
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 4: white women, and that's because they have since the injustice

537
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 4: happening to them, but they feel like they have the

538
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:39,200
Speaker 4: ability to fix something, whereas these are families and women

539
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 4: who honestly they have always been treated like shit by

540
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 4: medical practitioners. Amber Thurman didn't just die because of lack

541
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 4: of legal abortion. Amber Thurman died because an entire team

542
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 4: of hospital people stared at her and watched her deteriorate

543
00:29:56,920 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 4: and not only didn't intervene, but didn't think that anything

544
00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 4: that happened was wrong. Enough to report the doctor or

545
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:07,600
Speaker 4: go to the hospital board, or stay to the family.

546
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:10,800
Speaker 4: You know, you should file a lawsuit because something went

547
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 4: wrong here. And so this is what we are seeing

548
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 4: in Alabama, and this is what is coming out now.

549
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 4: Imagine what is happening at this moment that is not

550
00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 4: being made public because it's to a community who thinks

551
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 4: that there already is no hope.

552
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: That's a really, really good and important point that you're

553
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:33,760
Speaker 1: talking about, Robin. So explain to us. The white women

554
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: come forward because they're not afraid of being prosecuted too, right, Yes,

555
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,479
Speaker 1: And the black women or the women who don't have

556
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 1: money or can't speak English, they sort of think this

557
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 1: is normal.

558
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 4: They think this is normal. And one of the things

559
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 4: that we've become really incognizance of post ROW is that

560
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 4: our community care, we are still treating the same patients

561
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 4: that we always did. What we are doing now is,

562
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 4: rather than being able to offer them access to an

563
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 4: abortion that they want, we're primarily providing the prenatal care

564
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 4: that happens because they weren't able to get an abortion

565
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 4: and they weren't able to avoid pregnancy. And so we

566
00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 4: continue to hear from these patients how they're being treated

567
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 4: by other obgyns, if we transfer their care over to

568
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 4: a different doctor because we can't deliver, or if they

569
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,160
Speaker 4: move to a different doctor because they have complicated pregnancies

570
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 4: that can't help with and we had a listening session.

571
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,920
Speaker 4: We are now part of the Maternal Health Task Force

572
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,440
Speaker 4: in Alabama, which makes perfect sense to me. But also

573
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 4: if you went back like three years ago and told

574
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 4: me that, I would have laughed in your face. So

575
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 4: we hosted a listening session for them of our community

576
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 4: members and what it's like to give birth in TUSCALUSLA,

577
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,120
Speaker 4: which has just two hospitals for two hundred thousand people,

578
00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 4: and primarily people who give birth in our hospitals are

579
00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 4: black because the women who have more means they go

580
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 4: into to Birmingham. And we know our hospital's racist, and

581
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 4: that's something that we hear a lot from our patients.

582
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 4: But when we started hearing stories, like you know, one

583
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 4: woman said, I had a really good experience actually giving birth. Yeah,

584
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 4: it really sucked that when they had to do the

585
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 4: C section, they didn't have time to give me anesthesia,

586
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 4: but the rest of it went really what I know.

587
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: Pain, Yeah, yeah.

588
00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 4: Exactly, And this is what I mean, and these are

589
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 4: patients who they don't expect anything different, so they don't

590
00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 4: understand until they can talk to us that this is

591
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 4: not how medical care is supposed to work. That is

592
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 4: obsetric violence that was practiced on this person because of

593
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,160
Speaker 4: racist doctors who think that black women can't feel pain

594
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,080
Speaker 4: in the same way. And we're gonna go right in

595
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,520
Speaker 4: for the baby because that baby is the thing that matters,

596
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,320
Speaker 4: not the person who is carrying it. So this is

597
00:32:56,680 --> 00:33:02,400
Speaker 4: about helping people undo I mean, centuries of violence to them.

598
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 4: And that's why what we're hearing in real time is

599
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 4: from white women who know that people should be treated better,

600
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 4: but we're not getting that from our population. And so

601
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 4: it's not just what charactern we provide, but it's also

602
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 4: how do we teach people that they do have a

603
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 4: right to bodily autonomy and that these doctors aren't They're

604
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 4: not gods and they don't know everything. And you have

605
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 4: the right to say this is not okay, or I

606
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 4: need more care, or you're not listening to me.

607
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: So I want you to explain to us about a

608
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: phenomenon that has been going on. You explain this to

609
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,760
Speaker 1: me so well that has actually been going on for

610
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 1: a long time, but that I just learned about because

611
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: I live in a Blue state and have had this

612
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:54,640
Speaker 1: very privileged life, which is arresting pregnant women because they

613
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: are endangering the life of the child. Explain to us

614
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:03,640
Speaker 1: what this phenomenon is. You saw it before row was overturned,

615
00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: you're seeing it now. Explained to us what it is.

616
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, So there are organizations out there like Pregnancy Justice,

617
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,040
Speaker 4: which is a fabulous organization. Everybody should know everything about them,

618
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 4: that have been trackingating the instances of people who are

619
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 4: pregnant who are prosecuted and put in jail because of

620
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 4: something that they would probably not have been prosecuted for

621
00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 4: had they not been pregnant. And so this is specifically

622
00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:31,520
Speaker 4: out here. What we're seeing this mostly in regards to

623
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:36,320
Speaker 4: is chemical endangerment. And what happened is in two thousand

624
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:40,160
Speaker 4: and seven ish, I think the dates were before me,

625
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 4: the states in legislature essentially passed a bill that was

626
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:49,320
Speaker 4: supposed to try to protect the abundance of meth labs

627
00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 4: that were happening in Alabama, and so in order to

628
00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 4: be able to do additional punishments for people who had

629
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 4: meth labs in their home. The idea was that you

630
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 4: could be charged with chemical endangerment if you had children

631
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:06,440
Speaker 4: in your home that was also discovered to be a

632
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 4: meth lab, and so it was supposed to be extra

633
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 4: extra deterrence.

634
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: In itself, not a terrible idea. You should probably not

635
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:15,319
Speaker 1: have children in your meth lab.

636
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, we always tell people if you're going to have

637
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 4: a meth lab, keep your kid out. No, we don't

638
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 4: actually say that, And I should probably be because I

639
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 4: never know what could suddenly be used against me in literally,

640
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 4: so that was a joke. We'll stop right.

641
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: Yes, it was a joke, but it's not a legislation

642
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: that seems like it should theoretically be anti WOMUT. Right,

643
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:39,480
Speaker 1: you could see where it might seem like a reasonable

644
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:40,879
Speaker 1: thing to vote on. Yeah.

645
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 4: Inherently, what you can always assume in Alabama is that

646
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 4: if there's a law that is passed, it will be

647
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,160
Speaker 4: used in some sort of way that is vaguely defined,

648
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 4: so that anyone who wants to be able to misuse

649
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 4: it in a way that will prosecute people that they

650
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 4: either do not like or do not respect, or in

651
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 4: some way they want to have power over. That's how

652
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,840
Speaker 4: every law in Alabama is every law is extraordinarily vague

653
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 4: and vast so that prosecutors can use their discretion to

654
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 4: let their friends off or attack the people that they

655
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 4: don't like. Proniosm exactly. And this meth lab law ended

656
00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 4: up being used to say that if a person is

657
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:27,919
Speaker 4: pregnant and they use any sort of drug at all,

658
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,760
Speaker 4: and we're not even just talking like that means we're talking, okay,

659
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 4: there is marijuana in her system, that person can then

660
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 4: be put in jail for chemical endangerment and essentially held

661
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:43,400
Speaker 4: indefinitely because the rule for allowing the person out of

662
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 4: jail is that they have to be able to sign

663
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 4: into a residential treatment program, which are extraordinarily hard to

664
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 4: get into. But also, nobody's going to put you in

665
00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 4: a residential treatment program because you smoke a join if

666
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:57,280
Speaker 4: you have no money.

667
00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 1: It's also a gazillion dollars.

668
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 4: Billion dollars part is different because the reality is in

669
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 4: my opinion and I have no empirical data to back

670
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,480
Speaker 4: it up. It's just what I've experienced down here. The

671
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 4: idea is to put people into Christian based organizations, because

672
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,359
Speaker 4: Paul rehab is buying God, and then you will give

673
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 4: up your drugs. So they're more than willing to pay

674
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 4: money for anything that will help turn somebody into a Christian.

675
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 4: So you put that aside, and so over the period

676
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 4: of time, especially now since twenty eighteen, which was when

677
00:37:33,640 --> 00:37:37,399
Speaker 4: Alabama had a vote that said that we were going

678
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 4: to add the concept that life begins at the moment

679
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 4: of conception, and that the state has the right to

680
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 4: protect anything from the moment of conception and has interest

681
00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:50,040
Speaker 4: in that potential life becoming life. And so these two

682
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:54,800
Speaker 4: things together made it so that inherently the legal system

683
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 4: can step in at any point when they believe that

684
00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 4: a pregnant person is doing something that might endanger the

685
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 4: fetists or the embryo, in order to protect that embryo.

686
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,640
Speaker 4: And that come to mean jailing people and keeping them

687
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 4: in jail in order to keep them from potentially doing

688
00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 4: any sort of harm. Now, the reality is there is

689
00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 4: no situation in which a pregnant person in jail will

690
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 4: be getting better medical care than a pregnant person who

691
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,200
Speaker 4: is not in jail. It's just not gonna happen. You

692
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 4: got violence, you've got lack of medical care, You've got literally,

693
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 4: as we have seen people miscarrying in the middle of

694
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 4: their cells not able to get any access to help.

695
00:38:36,239 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 4: So this is about punishing. Obviously, you were an unfit mother,

696
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,880
Speaker 4: you did not do things correctly. We are going to

697
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 4: hold you here. But this is also about allegedly protecting

698
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,440
Speaker 4: the fetus so that it will be born. But then

699
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 4: not only can that be taken away because okay, you

700
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 4: are an unfit mother, you were in jail, so we

701
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 4: are going to take your new born baby from you

702
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,720
Speaker 4: because you should not have it, but also any shouldering

703
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,120
Speaker 4: that you already had, they will be able to take

704
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 4: that away too. And so one thing that I want

705
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 4: to make really clear to everybody is that in the

706
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,520
Speaker 4: now we're starting to work on three years since Dobs happened,

707
00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:16,280
Speaker 4: there has been nothing done in this state to actually

708
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 4: improve conditions for pregnant people. The own laws that have

709
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 4: passed are ones that make it easier to relinquish the

710
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 4: rights of being a parent, so ending prints right so

711
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 4: that you can take away children, and making foster care easier.

712
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,319
Speaker 4: And so what this is is there's been nothing to

713
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 4: help people get access to contraception. So people are still

714
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,479
Speaker 4: getting pregnant just as often as they were before. There's

715
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,799
Speaker 4: just no ability to not carry that pregnancy to term.

716
00:39:44,120 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 4: And what this is doing is this is essentially killing

717
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 4: black women. We know it's killing black babies because our

718
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,279
Speaker 4: black infant maternal or our black infant mortality rate has increased,

719
00:39:54,320 --> 00:39:58,240
Speaker 4: even though our white infant mortality rate has decreased. Since Dobs,

720
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 4: I want you to explain into us, just for a second,

721
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 4: what it means when you arrest a pregnant mother, because

722
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 4: you're doing it for two reasons.

723
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: Right, You're doing it because the fake reason, right, or

724
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: the reason that they say they're doing it is to

725
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: protect the fetus, right. But one of the other reasons

726
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: they're doing it is because when you're pregnant, if you're arrested,

727
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: the state is more likely to be able to take

728
00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 1: your children the next time. Explain that.

729
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, so, once you have been put into the Child

730
00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 4: Protective Services system at any point, every time you give birth,

731
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 4: you will always end up being visited by a case worker,

732
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 4: and so any child that you have from any point

733
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,840
Speaker 4: there on, you will still be on the radar. You

734
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:49,839
Speaker 4: will still be in the system. And what people don't

735
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 4: understand is that CPS exists in a way that is

736
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 4: targeted at communities, but also it is targeted at poverty,

737
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,959
Speaker 4: and so obviously the idea and it's like the meth lab,

738
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 4: it's a good idea on the surface. Yes, we would

739
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 4: love to see all children raised in homes where they

740
00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 4: have abundance and it can be given everything that they need.

741
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 4: But that's not what homes are like.

742
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 1: It's not what homes in very poor areas are like

743
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:18,960
Speaker 1: in Alabam.

744
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 4: Well I mean, and honestly, that's not what I mean.

745
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 4: It's a judgment of who is a good and bad

746
00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:29,399
Speaker 4: based on physical resources. One example that I can give

747
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 4: you is so we had a patient who came into

748
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 4: our clinic. She actually didn't come to our clinic. She

749
00:41:35,320 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 4: reached out to our doulas. And doulas they are birth

750
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 4: workers that help a person while they're giving birth, but

751
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,439
Speaker 4: they do not do delivery. Just be clear when people

752
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:47,680
Speaker 4: get midwives confused. This woman reached out because she wanted

753
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 4: a doula to come to her home where she wanted

754
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,240
Speaker 4: to do an unassisted home birth. And what that means

755
00:41:53,320 --> 00:41:56,359
Speaker 4: is she wanted to do a home birth, just go

756
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,839
Speaker 4: into labor with absolutely no medical professional whatsoever around. And

757
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,640
Speaker 4: it was because both as someone who had been violated

758
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 4: by the medical system before and also somebody who was

759
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 4: pregnant because of a sexual assault. She did not trust

760
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 4: any member of the medical community, absolutely not because this

761
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 4: was a black woman. Ourdula was a black woman. If

762
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 4: anything went wrong, everybody would end up in jail because

763
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 4: this is highly, highly illegal thing. And then our Doullah

764
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:29,680
Speaker 4: talked her into since she was already in labor, into

765
00:42:29,800 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 4: going into our local hospital and that she needed to

766
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:35,880
Speaker 4: be seen, that she needed to be evaluated, she needed

767
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,839
Speaker 4: to go into labor at a place where she could

768
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,920
Speaker 4: safely deliver. This patient went into the hospital with our doulas,

769
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 4: and the first thing that happened was she was berated

770
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 4: by the ogyn that was on call for not having

771
00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 4: had any prenatal care, which the patient avoided prenatal care

772
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:55,040
Speaker 4: because she did not want to have any interaction with

773
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 4: the medical system because she was scared of it. She

774
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,400
Speaker 4: was told that her baby was likely to do and

775
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,919
Speaker 4: it was her faults. This was all done without any

776
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 4: actual evaluation, and then they induced her labor because they

777
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 4: wanted to make sure that she had that baby right

778
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,279
Speaker 4: then while she was being seen by everybody, so that

779
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 4: she couldn't disappear again. They induced her labor with what's

780
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 4: known as a catheter balloon, which is a very invasive process,

781
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 4: which did that after they heard that she had been

782
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:25,680
Speaker 4: a victim of sexual assault. So that was a punishment.

783
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,480
Speaker 4: This is what I mean by obstetric violence. And then

784
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 4: after the labor, which ended up being completely fine, and

785
00:43:32,160 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 4: the baby came out beautiful baby boy. Everything was utterly fine,

786
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 4: and the doula tried to get them to allow her

787
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 4: to do skin diskin contact and start breastfeeding right away,

788
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 4: and the nursers were like, no, we have to take

789
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:48,279
Speaker 4: this baby and make sure everything's okay. And they drug

790
00:43:48,320 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 4: tested in because that's what happens with any child that

791
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 4: comes in and happens with an unattached patient. They are

792
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,320
Speaker 4: automatically drug tested. If they have no doctor, they're automatically

793
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 4: drug tested. They're on medicaid, they are drug tested without

794
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 4: any sort of consent. And the assumption was, well, if

795
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 4: she was hiding and not doing prenatal care, she must

796
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 4: have been doing something that she wanted to hide that

797
00:44:09,719 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 4: was hurting the baby. There was nothing, There was no

798
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,040
Speaker 4: drugs in the system. Nothing had happened. It was just

799
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:19,799
Speaker 4: a mother scared the system, and they liked to take

800
00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,799
Speaker 4: the baby, and she was sent home and then they

801
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,880
Speaker 4: called Child Protected Services on her. Wait why because the

802
00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 4: act of not having prenatal care while pregnant, they said,

803
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:35,120
Speaker 4: was violence to the baby and that as such, she

804
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 4: needed to be monitored because clearly she was an unfit.

805
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 1: Parent, right, that's crazy.

806
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:43,880
Speaker 4: You had to help make sure she had legal coverage.

807
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:46,000
Speaker 4: We had to make sure that she had everything that

808
00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 4: she needed in the house, because you could have your

809
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:50,920
Speaker 4: child taken away if you don't show that you have

810
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,680
Speaker 4: a specific place where that baby to be sleeping, if

811
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 4: you your home is too dirty, like all of these

812
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 4: things that are just poverty workers. We had to make

813
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 4: sure that everything of a set for this visit so

814
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 4: that we could be certain that her baby would not

815
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,440
Speaker 4: be stolen from her. And the reality is she is

816
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:10,400
Speaker 4: probably going to get pregnant again at some point, and

817
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,919
Speaker 4: she is never going to go near a hospital again. Never.

818
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,479
Speaker 1: Oh, thank you so much, troubin. I hope you'll come back.

819
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 4: I need to even want me at this point.

820
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:23,879
Speaker 1: I do want you're back because we need to know

821
00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: what's happening, right, I mean, just because it's dark, just

822
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 1: because it's the reality of what it's like, you know,

823
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:35,240
Speaker 1: living in a red state when you don't have money.

824
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: I mean, we need to know, right, there are people

825
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 1: on this podcast, myself included, who don't know what it's

826
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,000
Speaker 1: like to be poor and a woman of color in

827
00:45:45,080 --> 00:45:49,319
Speaker 1: Alabama and have no one advocating for you. So I

828
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 1: appreciate you a lot.

829
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 4: And I will never stop comunicating. So anytime you need me,

830
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 4: I'm back.

831
00:45:54,560 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: Thank you. Robin No No Jesse Cannon smiling.

832
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,080
Speaker 2: Last night I was scrolling the interwebs and I saw

833
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 2: Roger Stone saying some pretty fucked up things about how

834
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 2: they're plotting to steal this election over in Maga world,

835
00:46:14,040 --> 00:46:16,960
Speaker 2: and I was like, is this bluing on? Is this bullshit?

836
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 2: And then this morning I woke up to see that

837
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 2: this is all true, and it's pretty scary. What do

838
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 2: you see gear?

839
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 1: Roger Stone said that he wants to send armed guards

840
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: to dispute the election in Detroit and imprison former Attorney

841
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:38,160
Speaker 1: General Bill Barr if Donald Trump returns to power. Honestly,

842
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: if he wants to imprison Bill Barr, I don't have

843
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:42,160
Speaker 1: a horse.

844
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 2: That was not the part I found horrifying. I was

845
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 2: kind of like, yes, that's good.

846
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:48,479
Speaker 1: To be I'm okay with that. I mean, Bill Barr

847
00:46:48,520 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 1: said he's going to vote for Trump. I mean, you

848
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: know that's what Bill Barr wants.

849
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 2: Make your bed lie in it.

850
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I would be really surprised if they

851
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 1: weren't playing real bad stuff. I think we all know

852
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:07,319
Speaker 1: that Republicans are going to do anything they can to

853
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:12,200
Speaker 1: try to win this election or steal this election, so

854
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:17,040
Speaker 1: none of the surprises me. That's it for this episode

855
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:23,200
Speaker 1: of Fast Politics. Tune in every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, and

856
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:27,440
Speaker 1: Saturday to hear the best minds in politics make sense

857
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: of all the chaos. If you enjoyed this podcast, please

858
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: send it to a friend or an enemy and keep

859
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:35,360
Speaker 1: the conversation going.