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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of My Heart Radio Elizabeth Dutton. Yes,

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Speaker 1: do you know it's ridiculous? Yeah, I know it's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: Hit me with it. People who refer to their dogs

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Speaker 1: as fur babies, because like, if someone says to me

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Speaker 1: when I'm walking my dog, is that your fur baby,

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Speaker 1: I want to say, yeah, I'm his skin mommy. So

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Speaker 1: that's ridiculous. Can I be the flesh daddy? Yes, you could.

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Speaker 1: You could be the dog's flesh daddy. I'm just I'm

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Speaker 1: the flesh step daddy. I just think it's ridiculous. Just

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Speaker 1: say it's your pet. And then I also, as much

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Speaker 1: as I am a crazy dog lady and I love

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Speaker 1: my dog, I own that dog. He's not my like

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Speaker 1: not like internet own more legally I own. I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: dunk on him all day, I roast him. But also

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Speaker 1: in addition, I'm the owner, I'm the boss lady, I'm

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Speaker 1: the alpha, so you know I don't it's a dog dude.

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Speaker 1: It's not like my roommate anyway. That's that's ridiculous. Have

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Speaker 1: I got a story for you? How about a story

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Speaker 1: about the time when the author of Sherlock Holmes, Sir

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Speaker 1: Arthur Conan Doyle, my man got into a very very

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Speaker 1: public feud with the magician Harry Judini. Yeah, Harry Judini, right,

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Speaker 1: I didn't expect that coming. So the two men had

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Speaker 1: battled about whether like mediums and psychics and seances and

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Speaker 1: jiboards were like valid tools to contact people from the

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Speaker 1: great beyond. Now they're public feud eventually ended their friendship,

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Speaker 1: as public feuds often do. So you ready for the

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Speaker 1: story of Sir Arthur Conan Doyle versus Harry who did born? Ready,

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Speaker 1: let's do this. This is ridiculous crime of podcast about

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Speaker 1: absurd and outrageous capers, heights and cons. It's always murder

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Speaker 1: free and ridiculous. Okay, first things first, we kind of

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Speaker 1: need to set some ground rules or some foundational setting

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Speaker 1: for this. Well, there's a stage, you know. Well, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's just basically that things were different then, even though

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Speaker 1: they were the same. And I think you kind of

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Speaker 1: need to understand what we are dealing with because if

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Speaker 1: I say, you're like, oh, nine twenty, right, but like

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Speaker 1: there's like a whole deal about nineteen twenty, I don't

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people think about, which is they

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Speaker 1: had gone through World War one and the Spanish flu.

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Speaker 1: At the same time, death is just hanging in the air.

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Speaker 1: There's like this great darkness, there's this grief, and out

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Speaker 1: of that comes this need for Yes, it's true. I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to argue because that is spot on people

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Speaker 1: needed just like people and say jazz, Yes, you need

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Speaker 1: to do a jazz hands in the next time. All right,

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Speaker 1: I'm not critiquing your style. I'm just saying, but out

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Speaker 1: of this need for some spiritual relief and sustenance other

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Speaker 1: than jazz music comes this, uh basically spirit of the

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Speaker 1: times as ZiT Geist, if you will, that had psychic

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Speaker 1: life coaches and like these mediums and charlatans and street

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Speaker 1: theater people going and doing like um readings, if you will,

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Speaker 1: like just know you, sir, I have a message for

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Speaker 1: you from your dead wife. So it's like in person,

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Speaker 1: live action, Instagram kind of kind of crystals. Yeah, Like

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Speaker 1: right now we have like the crystal healers the Internet,

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Speaker 1: which covens energy, body working. Yeah, exactly, but that's all

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Speaker 1: pretty much the same stuff as then, but the need

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Speaker 1: for it was different than than it is now. Although

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Speaker 1: with the pandemic we're getting pretty darn close to pushing

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Speaker 1: the same similar kind of numbers. Right. Well, that New

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Speaker 1: age stuff then was called spiritualism. So this is a

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Speaker 1: story about spiritualism. Okay, Okay, I'm really excited for this.

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Speaker 1: Did you see this story about that l a guy

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Speaker 1: who had to go and hire a psychic life coach.

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Speaker 1: I think it was like five grandy paid Dr or No, hey,

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Speaker 1: he only did you ever a thousand dollar to deposit,

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Speaker 1: but she was going to charge five grand to remove

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Speaker 1: a curse that his ex girlfriend had had paid a

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Speaker 1: witch to place on him. So he got a psychic

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Speaker 1: to fight a witch. Okay, Okay, So I just thought

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Speaker 1: that was like, you know, emblematic of our times, but

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Speaker 1: it just as easily could have been having the spiritualism

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, Have you ever been to a psychic? No?

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Speaker 1: I think like I can remember, um at like some

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Speaker 1: elementary school spirit week fair, not spirit like, but like

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Speaker 1: I'm excited about school. Um I seem to remember there

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Speaker 1: was like a psychic and I'm sure it was highly

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Speaker 1: offensive like Roma culture, you know, yeah exactly, with all

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Speaker 1: stall yeah and coin earrings and stuff. But um, I

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Speaker 1: remember they had like a tent and you could use

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Speaker 1: your tickets to go and have your fortune red and

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Speaker 1: they put one of those red like thin plastic fish

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Speaker 1: that would curl up and it would tell you, like

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Speaker 1: what that meant? You know what I'm talking about. It's

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Speaker 1: like heat responsive. It's like the paper and you put

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Speaker 1: your heat on it. Yeah, and you know they use

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Speaker 1: that like throwing bones essentially. Yeah, And so if you

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Speaker 1: run a little hot, curls right up if you're you know,

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Speaker 1: clammy handed. I don't know anyway, I don't know what

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Speaker 1: my fortune was. I'm sure it came true. I like

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Speaker 1: Chuck Closterman, the writer, he went to a psychic, actually

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Speaker 1: bent to a bunch of psychics and asked them all

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Speaker 1: if he could become a professional bowler. And he's like,

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Speaker 1: never bowld you had know anything about bowling. They're like, oh, yes,

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Speaker 1: I see it for you. You will. So that's kind

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Speaker 1: of like my take on a lot of this stuff

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Speaker 1: is you're pretty much gonna be told what you want

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Speaker 1: for money. But that's said. I do want to say

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Speaker 1: straight up, I do not have an opinion of what

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Speaker 1: people believe. I want everyone to believe whatever they want.

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Speaker 1: The only thing that I find ridiculous in all of

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Speaker 1: this is the Charlatan is trying to deceive people. It's

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Speaker 1: not the believers. I don't have a problem with whatever

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Speaker 1: you believe, it's the deceiver's exactly. So I just wanted

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Speaker 1: to say that plane is possible. Okay, let's start off

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Speaker 1: our story with an English writer, but not the one

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Speaker 1: we're discussing. Not to Arthur Conan Doll instead, Charles Dickens. Well,

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Speaker 1: wasn't sir Arthur Conan Doll Scottish? Oh you're gonna be

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Speaker 1: like that, Yes he was. I should have said British,

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Speaker 1: not English, and then he could have fallen under that umbrella.

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Speaker 1: So yes, yeah, continue, So Charles Dickens, you like Dickens.

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Speaker 1: Sure he got, he got paid by the Comma. It's

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Speaker 1: such a former English teacher comment. I love it. Well. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: he's this big time spiritualist and he believed in what

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Speaker 1: was called mesmeric curses. Now, mesmeric curses were something that

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Speaker 1: he thought would be some a way to heal his

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Speaker 1: sister in laws intestinal evil. Yeah, intestinal we've all had

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Speaker 1: intestinally right exactly now. He planned also to fight her

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Speaker 1: intestinal evil, he would use the power of animal magnetism, right, no, right,

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Speaker 1: But he wasn't like that kind of animal magnetism. And

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Speaker 1: it also wasn't like, oh I'm gonna rub a magnetic

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Speaker 1: rabbit on you. It was it was hanimal magnetism back

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Speaker 1: then meant hypnotism. Oh so it's sort of like your animals,

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Speaker 1: that your primal primal magnetism. Yeah, exactly, it's like the

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Speaker 1: attraction of all living things. I guess I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a spiritualist. But he also, you know, it

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Speaker 1: was like into clairvoyance, and he believed that this was

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Speaker 1: an extension of Clare of Voiance. So basically there's this

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Speaker 1: psychic ether and this was an example of him being

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Speaker 1: able to tune into it. Right now, He's not alone.

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Speaker 1: In the nineteenth century, you have a bunch of like

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Speaker 1: luminaries who were big time spiritualist. W. B. Yates was one,

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Speaker 1: Queen Victoria's one, the painter of the Scream at Vard Munch.

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Speaker 1: He was a big one. Um see. Oh, of course

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Speaker 1: Mary Todd Lincoln, the Queen, the first Lady. She very

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Speaker 1: famously would have seances in the White House to try

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Speaker 1: to contact little Willie, their dear departed Willie. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: wet the earth for a little Willie. Now, the civil

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Speaker 1: War was this major driver of all things spiritualism in

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Speaker 1: macab right, So that was the first push, and then

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Speaker 1: in World War One you get a follow up. Basically

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Speaker 1: it's the same response. In the Civil War you have

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Speaker 1: like thousand people lost in the battlefields. Then uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: in response to this within like by eight seventy eight,

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Speaker 1: you have eleven million people who are calling themselves spiritualists

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Speaker 1: in the United States, United States, just the United States.

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Speaker 1: What was the population, like twelve million, I'm not good

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Speaker 1: to the number. I actually don't know. The population was

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Speaker 1: one out of three people. But like this nascent, like

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Speaker 1: burgeoning kind of spiritual movement ended up turning into an industry.

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Speaker 1: So within a generation or two by the turn of

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Speaker 1: the century, now there were well, for instance, in nineteen

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Speaker 1: o nine you get four hundred twenty seven licensed mentalists

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Speaker 1: in on the Eastern seaboard, licensed licensed. In ten years

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Speaker 1: time there were six thousand, three hundred and ninety licensed

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Speaker 1: from four hundred something just six thousand some ten years

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Speaker 1: from nineteen nine nineteen. What had happened in between industry,

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Speaker 1: World War One and the Spanish foot you can see

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Speaker 1: it's directly like the numbers carry it out. This isn't

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Speaker 1: just like, oh yeah, people need spiritualism, though they're paying

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Speaker 1: for it. Right. So by the end of like World

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Speaker 1: War One, we're talking nineteen eighteen and November nineteen eighteen,

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Speaker 1: the war ends, there are twenty million soldiers and civilians

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Speaker 1: who are dead. Like it's just like bloody, bloody, bloody times. Right.

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Speaker 1: So in a response and also the Spanish flu um,

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Speaker 1: you have another let's see, I think americans die in that.

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Speaker 1: You have a hundred sixteen thousand Americans die in the

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Speaker 1: World War One. So you just as you can see

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Speaker 1: from these numbers, it's just it's really hard to find

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Speaker 1: somebody who's not touched by loss. Okay. So in that

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Speaker 1: environment you have like in New York City, a newspaper

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Speaker 1: described the streets being filled with mediums, mentalists. Um, there

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Speaker 1: was terms like street fake here, which is you know,

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Speaker 1: the Indian fake here, the jongaliers, bunko merchants, miracle workers, healers,

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Speaker 1: and sears. So it's just like the streets are ripe

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Speaker 1: with people with going, hey, what's that in your pocket?

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Speaker 1: Got a little money, I'll tell you something spiritual right now.

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Speaker 1: There's also though the d I y approach. Okay, do

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Speaker 1: you can always do something yourself, right, So then that

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Speaker 1: meant the Luigi board right now. Luigi board was invented

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Speaker 1: in like eighteen ninety, I believe, but in by nineteen seventeen,

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Speaker 1: it's become the thing everybody wants one. It gets like

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Speaker 1: they're having the adults are having parties. Isn't just like

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Speaker 1: little you know, isn't children gathering together. There's adults having

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Speaker 1: like seances using the Ouiji board right now. My man

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Speaker 1: Harry Houdini, he immediately recognized this is kind of a

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Speaker 1: slippery soap folks, and he called Wiji boards the first

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Speaker 1: step towards insanity. So the guy who like chained himself

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Speaker 1: up and hung upside down is telling other people what's insane. Hey, hey, well,

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Speaker 1: but you have to understand this is like a common view.

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Speaker 1: The was the medical director of for New Jersey State

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Speaker 1: Hospital for the Insane. He had the same opinion. He said,

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Speaker 1: if Weigi boards quote, it would be difficult to imagine

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Speaker 1: conditions more favorable for the development of psychosis than those

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Speaker 1: furnished by the Wigi board and other mediums. So it's

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Speaker 1: not just that like we have mass death and decimation

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Speaker 1: that could cause psychosis. No, it's a it's Luigi board exactly,

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Speaker 1: all right, dude, Hey man, he is the director of

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Speaker 1: the State Hospital for the Insane. He knows what he's

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Speaker 1: talking about. I'm sure. Now, did you ever play with

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Speaker 1: the Weigi board? Yeah? Yeah, did you like it? You

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Speaker 1: don't seem like it would be the type just saying

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Speaker 1: I'll just put it out there. Looks can be deceived.

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Speaker 1: Uh No, you know. The thing is is that like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can remember doing like doing the whole Weigi board

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Speaker 1: thing at like a party or something as a kid.

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Speaker 1: And then there's always like you can feel people pushing

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Speaker 1: the little what's what is that called on the Uigi board? Oh,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, like those called the selector. It has

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Speaker 1: another name. Oh I don't know what it is, Planchett. Okay,

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Speaker 1: the planchett. Yeah. So you can feel people pushing on it,

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Speaker 1: on the planchet, with their on the plan chet, with

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Speaker 1: their agendas, when they asked questions like this, who has

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Speaker 1: a crush on me? Who's in the room. Malik has

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Speaker 1: a m and it's Malik. Yeah, I so I can. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've played with the Uigi board. I've gone there, and

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Speaker 1: did you believe it in the moment, No, because I

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Speaker 1: don't trust people. I mean, I I'm very open minded

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Speaker 1: about stuff. You know, there's a lot and I'm okay

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Speaker 1: with not being able to explain stuff. I don't feel

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Speaker 1: like there has to be a scientific explanation for everything,

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Speaker 1: and so I'm cool with that, you know, I'm cool.

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Speaker 1: I love movies that have ambiguous endings, that's true. I

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Speaker 1: love in precision. So I'm yeah, like whatever. You know. Again,

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to judge, you know, what I think

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Speaker 1: or what other people think. But the Uiji board is

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Speaker 1: just totally a setup for people to to try and manipulate.

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Speaker 1: It's too much of a thumb on the scale. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: well that's fair assessment. I grew up in a neighborhood

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Speaker 1: with a lot of families. There were a bunch of girls,

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Speaker 1: and uh, we definitely play the Wegi board and I

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Speaker 1: dug it and I had no problem with it. But

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Speaker 1: I also didn't think that they was divining anything. I

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Speaker 1: thought it was just kind of we're just all doing

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Speaker 1: it and pretending, you know. I realized people actually believed,

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Speaker 1: you know, but yeah, whatever, that's but there's also there

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Speaker 1: are the people who are terrified of them, like they

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Speaker 1: don't want the wegi board in their house. You know. Also,

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Speaker 1: do you'd ever play light as a feather stuff as

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Speaker 1: a board. I'd heard about it. I saw that, and

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Speaker 1: that made me I was much more o believer in that.

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Speaker 1: So you mentioned science, right, and science at this time

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Speaker 1: is right in this like point where it's also starting

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Speaker 1: to shape with people believe not just what they think,

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Speaker 1: but what they believe. Right. There's this a funny, little

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Speaker 1: strange German Man by the name of Albert Einstein, that

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Speaker 1: little kittie, yeah, with a fun fun hair. He was

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Speaker 1: up ending almost all reality at this point, but proving

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Speaker 1: that scientists really couldn't prove anything. You know, they knew

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Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff, but they couldn't prove anything. He

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Speaker 1: invents he through his theories of relativity, the way particle

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Speaker 1: duality of light, his explanation of the photo electric effect.

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Speaker 1: He wins a bunch of you know, Nobel prizes, but

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Speaker 1: he also up ends reality. He basically says that everything

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Speaker 1: is relative to the observer. This is a huge win

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Speaker 1: for the spiritualist, the mentalist, and the psychics, and they're

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Speaker 1: saying the same thing as Einstein. It's all up to

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Speaker 1: what you believe. So now let's get into our man,

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Speaker 1: Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, the most rational mind, the guy

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Speaker 1: who invented Sherlock Holmes. How do you think he plays

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Speaker 1: into all this? I have no idea. Well, he's you know,

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Speaker 1: he's rational. So you expect this guy to be the

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Speaker 1: kind to basically be able to parse truth from fiction,

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Speaker 1: to be able to analyze things and not be just

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Speaker 1: swayed by emotion, right, but he goes to prove that

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Speaker 1: we are all victims of what we believe, So stick

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Speaker 1: with me. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle had also had his

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Speaker 1: fair share of death and disease. His wife's brother died

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Speaker 1: in World War One in Belgium. His son Kingsley, got

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Speaker 1: himself wounded in France, also fighting in the war, and

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Speaker 1: then two years later he dies of pneumonia. Conan Doyle's

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Speaker 1: younger brother dies of the Spanish flu so it's just

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Speaker 1: close to him. All in all, he loses eleven members

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Speaker 1: of his family are relative. So he's really velversed in

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Speaker 1: this great darkness of that time, right, So he's willing

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Speaker 1: to do things like seances, and his wife is super

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Speaker 1: into it, so he starts, you know, he's legitimately somebody

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Speaker 1: had been curious about his whole life, but he starts

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Speaker 1: really getting into it after his son dies. Now I

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Speaker 1: want you to picture it ready, the autumn of nineteen September,

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Speaker 1: ten months earlier. The Great War just finally come to

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Speaker 1: a close. There's that grief hanging there that I've mentioned

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Speaker 1: numerous times. Sir Arthur Conan Doyle is at a hotel

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Speaker 1: in the English coastal town of Portsmith. He's on stage

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Speaker 1: for a rally of spiritualist believers and with him on

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Speaker 1: stage this dude, Evan Powell. And Evan Powell is a

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Speaker 1: thirty eight year old medium, and Powell is like really

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Speaker 1: good at his job. He's conjuring up voices of multiple

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Speaker 1: departed souls from the audience. Everyone's blown away. Conan Doyle

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Speaker 1: and his wife are so struck by what he's doing.

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Speaker 1: They're like, hey, bro, like after this show, you want up,

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Speaker 1: gonna be pop upstairs into a little private set. And

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Speaker 1: he's like, okay, right, So he goes upstairs. Conan Doyle,

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Speaker 1: his wife and five of their fellow spiritualist all huddle

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Speaker 1: in this room. The candles are lit. They go, okay, medium,

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Speaker 1: let's see what you can do. And first they're like, wait,

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Speaker 1: we want to check them. So they search him, they

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Speaker 1: pat him down for anything, and it's like, okay, he's clean,

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Speaker 1: and they go, okay, strip him. They strip him half naked, right,

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Speaker 1: and then they tie him to a chair. Is this

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Speaker 1: can exactly? Is this really still a psych So they're

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Speaker 1: you know, they're all getting kinky with him. We have

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Speaker 1: an offer for you, Mr Powell. So he's half naked,

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Speaker 1: tied to his chair. They're like, okay, do your stuff right.

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Speaker 1: So they have the gas lights all low and their

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Speaker 1: flicker and it's like just this whatever, the seven of

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Speaker 1: them sitting there with Powell now ConA nod. He's a writer,

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Speaker 1: so he records what he sees and he says, I quote,

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Speaker 1: we had a strong phenomena from the start. The medium

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Speaker 1: was always groaning, muttering, or talking, so that there was

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Speaker 1: never a doubt where he was. Suddenly I heard a

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Speaker 1: voice out of the darkness, Conor no Doyle here, but

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Speaker 1: out of the darkness, Conan Doyle, here's in the medium's voice,

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Speaker 1: a voice that he recognizes, right, someone else's voice, and

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Speaker 1: he's the voice, says Jane. It is I His wife

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Speaker 1: cries it is Kingsley, I said, is that you boy? He?

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Speaker 1: And this is all quote he said, he said, in

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Speaker 1: a very intense whisper, in a tone all his own father.

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Speaker 1: And then after a pause, forgive me, now this kind

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Speaker 1: of weird, right, just forgive me from the other side.

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Speaker 1: What for? So so Arthur cnan Doyle, this grieving father,

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Speaker 1: he's able to hear from his dead son. It blows

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Speaker 1: his mind. Forget rationality, forget Sherlock Holmes, forget all that stuff.

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Speaker 1: He's like, bro, it's my boy. But not only does

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Speaker 1: he hear him, he feels his son's hand press on him.

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Speaker 1: He then feels his son kiss him on the forehead,

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Speaker 1: and his son whispers to him, I am so happy.

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy, exactly just like that. After that point,

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Speaker 1: he's he's there. He is completely committed to spiritualism. He

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Speaker 1: at one point goes and says that quote, God has

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Speaker 1: placed me in a very special position for conveying spiritualism

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Speaker 1: to that world which needed it so badly. Right, Spiritualism.

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Speaker 1: He's like, that's my religion. Bra Now, this dude, he's

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Speaker 1: like sixty years old at this time, and he had

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Speaker 1: been started out life as a Catholic. You were a

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Speaker 1: Catholic in Scotland. He was a Catholic born in scott

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Speaker 1: Is there a big scene Catholics in Scotland? Oh, it's dicey.

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Speaker 1: I lived in Glasgow and it's there's a lot of sectarianism,

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Speaker 1: we'll put it that way. Yeah, So it looks like

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00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:13,120
Speaker 1: he was willing to flee the sextarianism and find something

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Speaker 1: more unifying and global in mind. So spiritualism just reaches

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Speaker 1: like into his heart. And then also he has the

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Speaker 1: emotional connection with his son and that need to talk

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Speaker 1: to the dead, just like everybody else at this time. Now,

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Speaker 1: what could possibly test his faith in this connection to spiritualism? God,

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Speaker 1: I told you up top, my man Harry who did

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Speaker 1: That's right? That's right. So after this quick break, we'll

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Speaker 1: be right back to bring my man Harry Houdini into

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Speaker 1: the story. Okay, So it's nineteen nine Arthur Conan Doyle,

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Speaker 1: sixty year old man, grieving father, lost eleven relatives all

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Speaker 1: to war illness, and he's now thoroughly convinced that he

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Speaker 1: can still speak to his dead son if he can

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Speaker 1: find the right Canadian medium to speak through. Right, that's

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Speaker 1: where we are now, this whole like sayan scene. I

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Speaker 1: have to admit, the only thing I've ever picturing when

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Speaker 1: I was like reading about this was Paully Walnuts and

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Speaker 1: the Sopranos and that sance. Do you remember that? Yes? Yes?

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Speaker 1: Do you remember? Like when are you sitting there telling

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Speaker 1: all the soul that the medium is looking up above

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Speaker 1: him and there's all the souls competing to like basically

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Speaker 1: like finger him for their murder? Hey, what's he's looking around?

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Speaker 1: And after he tells tone of hey, tone, I'm dragon souls.

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Speaker 1: That's one of the things. I mean, that's sort of

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Speaker 1: like recenters you when you're watching it of imagining if

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Speaker 1: that's the case that they have all these people following

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Speaker 1: them around, and like that was the thing with with Polly,

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Speaker 1: like when you saw the magnitude, like the number of

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Speaker 1: people and you're just like, oh man, yeah, he's put

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Speaker 1: a lot of people into some serious dirt maps. Yeah, okay,

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00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,360
Speaker 1: time to shake things up in this story. But bring

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Speaker 1: in my man Harry Hudini now. To properly picture him,

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Speaker 1: I want you to imagine that Hudini looks like a

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Speaker 1: more attractive Harvey Kitel Need, like that one real name,

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Speaker 1: Eric Wise Hudini was this like really headstrong, your curial man.

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Speaker 1: He's hot tempered, he's proud, he's you know, not without

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Speaker 1: being stereotypical. He's a very what I have experienced from Hungarians,

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Speaker 1: very hungarian. Right, he's not going to like balk on anything.

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Speaker 1: He's got like a chip on his shoulder and he's like, look,

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Speaker 1: you know how long we've been able to maintain Hungary.

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Speaker 1: Do you know why we did it? Because we believe

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Speaker 1: and we fight for what we believe in. I'm like, word,

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Speaker 1: I get that. Houdini. Now, Hudini is this you know,

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Speaker 1: Hungarian born magician and an escape artist. As you pointed

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Speaker 1: out earlier, he was also the president of the Society

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Speaker 1: of American Magicians, which I didn't even know the leadership exactly.

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Speaker 1: He was the leader for his crew Sam the Society

387
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 1: of American Mitchell you know, as the president of the society.

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00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 1: Of course, he hates all these like mediums and psychics

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Speaker 1: which make them look bad. Here's what the magicians and

390
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:09,720
Speaker 1: illusion is getting like wrapped up in all of this.

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Speaker 1: They can't be like mistaken for mesmerists. Right now, Hudini,

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Speaker 1: as you pointed out, group famous for it as an

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Speaker 1: escape artist. But I want people to understand when I

394
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,520
Speaker 1: say a scape artist, he would like have a cop

395
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Speaker 1: come up on stage and handcuff him, and then he

396
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,360
Speaker 1: would embarrass the cop by breaking out of the handcuffs

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00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 1: while he was talking to him. That was like a

398
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,399
Speaker 1: warm up appetizer. Later on he'd be like, they have

399
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: chain wrapped around him, the straight jacket. Then he put

400
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: me put underwater and he'd have to get out of

401
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,879
Speaker 1: the locks, the chain, the straight jacket, and they have

402
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: to do it like before he drowned. And luckily he

403
00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:41,320
Speaker 1: could hold his breath for like three minutes, so it

404
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,080
Speaker 1: wasn't entirely impossible, but still it was pretty sketch. He

405
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:48,520
Speaker 1: would basically constantly the attraction was will he die? Yeah,

406
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 1: he was courting death. Yeah, good way of putting it. Now.

407
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: One of his like other tricks was he once he

408
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:57,360
Speaker 1: was in Mexico in Moscow. Same thing, Yeah, same things,

409
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 1: it's just different excellence. So he gets on the Siberian

410
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 1: prison truck and the key is only for he gets

411
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 1: locked up in the Siberian prison truck and if he

412
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Speaker 1: can't get out, he has to go all the way

413
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Speaker 1: to a Siberian prison where the only key the lack

414
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 1: is of course he got out because because we didn't

415
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 1: hear about him being stuck in in He's not so Houdini.

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Speaker 1: He also wrote a book about himself called Hudini, A

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Speaker 1: Magician among the Spirits, and in it, I'm going to

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00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: quote a couple of times from it, he said, I

419
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 1: associated myself with mediums at the time. I appreciated the

420
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 1: fact that I surprised my clients, but while aware of

421
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:36,560
Speaker 1: the fact that I was deceiving them, I did not

422
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: see or understand the seriousness of trifling with such sacred

423
00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 1: sentimentality and the baneful results which inevitably followed. To me,

424
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 1: it was a lark. So basically, he used to con

425
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: the global and then has like this crisis of conscience,

426
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,439
Speaker 1: starts to feel bad, and he decides to become a

427
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 1: white hat hacker of magicians. It's like, I'm gonna like,

428
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 1: you know, sheep dog the flock as opposed to being

429
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: a wolf. Therefore, this kind of set some up to

430
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,399
Speaker 1: run counter to Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, who you know

431
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,720
Speaker 1: in Judini's world is basically you know, grifting the sheep.

432
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 1: So Houdini has warned everybody, And there's another quote of

433
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 1: his whenever any of these alleged spiritual mediums tell you

434
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 1: that they have supernatural aid, you may safely set them

435
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: down as frauds. My trick is merely a matter of

436
00:24:20,080 --> 00:24:22,680
Speaker 1: sleight of hand. So what he's trying to basically prove

437
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,280
Speaker 1: is that after his years of quote having taken the

438
00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:28,159
Speaker 1: spon DeLux which is his name for the rubes in

439
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 1: with his deceptions, he really now understands that people are hurting.

440
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:34,960
Speaker 1: He gets that this is a dark time. He says, uh, quote,

441
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: the times hungered for something, A war memorial had appeared

442
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,360
Speaker 1: in every town, and many people naturally sought some divine

443
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: solace for their grief. So that's why he goes after

444
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: the deceivers, and not just because of the magicians, but

445
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: also for the sake of the people. Well, it sounds

446
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:52,439
Speaker 1: like he classifies all mediums as deceivers essentially. Yes, so

447
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: he doesn't believe in it. He doesn't believe in them.

448
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:56,879
Speaker 1: He's never been He's never he says, he never has

449
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: seen record of anything that they've done that would prove

450
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,840
Speaker 1: something other than an illusion. So if but he's open

451
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,119
Speaker 1: minded about it, and we'll get into that in a second.

452
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 1: With Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. So Conan Doyle and Houdini

453
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: strike up a friendship. Their pen pals cute, all right,

454
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: you ever had a pen pal? No? I knew me neither,

455
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 1: like actually follow through for that. I wrote letters to

456
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,359
Speaker 1: famous people when I was a kid, but like only

457
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: really old famous people, for like Irving Berlin. Were you

458
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: writing to? How old were you? Oh? Yeah, I was

459
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: like dude. I wrote to Bob Ross like the back

460
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,040
Speaker 1: before anybody was ever telling me about brass And he

461
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,000
Speaker 1: wrote me back a really nice letter from MUNC and

462
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: it's all handwritten and they signed it. I mean Irving

463
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 1: Berlin did the same thing. He wrote back to me. Yeah, exactly,

464
00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: like I ha to Berlin. I just told him about

465
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 1: how I thought his music was still touching and moving.

466
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:51,359
Speaker 1: And here I was a thirteen year old boy who

467
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 1: was going through some is just feeling myself and your

468
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: music touched just me. It talks to me, man, I

469
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: feel so No. I just told him, like, you know,

470
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: your stuff still laps, bro, I don't know if it's amazing.

471
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:04,159
Speaker 1: That's incredible. Yeah. So but he robbed me back. It

472
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 1: was really really nice handwriting too. He's like a hundred

473
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: years old at the time, literally a hundred years old.

474
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:11,600
Speaker 1: That was part of the reason I'd heard you had

475
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:13,760
Speaker 1: a hundred birthdays. Like, I gotta write him before he like, hey,

476
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: happy birthday. Hey man, you're you're one cool unit. You

477
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 1: send him a birthday card? Uh no, but I did

478
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: wish him kind of a birthday reading. Yeah. Sold. So

479
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,200
Speaker 1: Hudini and con Doyle they're doing the same thing. They're

480
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: sending each other birthday cards or whatever, right, and Hudini

481
00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: is like, obviously still Hudini. He's not going to pretend,

482
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,479
Speaker 1: and he's not starstruck by Kunnan Doyle. So he's like

483
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: basically busting his balls about the spiritualism stuff. And he's

484
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 1: like sending him a book that he wrote, Debunking a Magician,

485
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,880
Speaker 1: and he's like, hey, man, why did you read this?

486
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: And Conan Doyle is like, nah, whatever, okay, I'll read it. No,

487
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: I don't believe it. He's like, hey, why why don't

488
00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: you come over here to England and I'll show you

489
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 1: how things are. And so they're like, yeah, maybe they

490
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 1: finally do get together. Well, Cudini's over in Europe. They

491
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 1: hit it off in person. They're both these total hardheads,

492
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: but they win over each other's rent. Then when Hudini

493
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,400
Speaker 1: comes to America, it happens to be that Sir Arthur

494
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: Conan Doyle is over in Atlantic City, and so Houdini

495
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: and Arthur Conan Doyle they make plans to meet up

496
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:17,800
Speaker 1: in Atlantic City and uh Springsteen situation. So oh the

497
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: song I was thinking of, like Springsteen and some psychic

498
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,159
Speaker 1: in Atlantic City. I was like springste was Houdini and

499
00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 1: then was reincarnated as Bruce Springsteen. That makes so much

500
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,399
Speaker 1: I the Luigi Board told me just now. So the

501
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: great men meet up in Atlantic City. The year is

502
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:40,440
Speaker 1: like ninety. Their wives are with them, but Conan Doyle

503
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 1: and his wife like they have a cold spiritual medium thing.

504
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: So they're like, hey, Hudini, why don't you leave your

505
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: wife in the hotel room and then come on over

506
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 1: and we'll do like a seance. I got a little

507
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: surprise set up for you, and uh who needs being

508
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 1: open minded? He's like, all right, bet let me see

509
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 1: what this thing is about. So he goes over there

510
00:27:57,119 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: and con was like, look, I have a plan. My

511
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,159
Speaker 1: life is a medium. We're going to do an automatic

512
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:06,359
Speaker 1: writing thing where we contact your mother who he's like,

513
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,439
Speaker 1: my dead mother. Really you want to mess around with that? Okay.

514
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,200
Speaker 1: So at this point, Sir Arthur, Conan Doyle's wife has

515
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: become she's dabbling in it, and she gets really good,

516
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 1: and she starts doing something called automatic writing, which means

517
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: instead of like channeling in a voice like the medium

518
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: that they saw who had actually spoken the voice of

519
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,959
Speaker 1: the sun, she just writes the messages, that writes them

520
00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 1: as fast as her hand can go. But I'm just curious,

521
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: like she didn't show any of these tendencies she did

522
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 1: prior to the sund She did, she did prior to

523
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: the answer. She had been doing it. And so Conan

524
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,560
Speaker 1: Doyle is like, I think my wife, who has a

525
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: who's been getting much stronger with her powers. Yes, exactly,

526
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: she can probably hook you up with you know, if

527
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,480
Speaker 1: you want to talk to anyone who's you loved, who's

528
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 1: also gone to the Grape Beyond. How about your mother?

529
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: You love your mother. So Conan Doyle and his wife,

530
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 1: Lady Doyle, they are sitting in this candle at hotel

531
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:00,719
Speaker 1: room and Hudini is there with him to picture these

532
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: two guys. Conan Doyle is like, at this point sixty three,

533
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,440
Speaker 1: he's a big man, he's like six saying like six

534
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: something six three. Right, he's got a military bearing because

535
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:12,959
Speaker 1: he was in the know the he's a biggin right,

536
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: he's an absolute unit. And Pudini is five six, he's

537
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: bow legged like a circus acrobat. He's squat and like

538
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: like a spark plug of energy and intensity. Right, So

539
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: very bit British military guy. And then this like kind

540
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: of like yeah, little rascal. Right. So they're sitting there

541
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: with Lady Doyle and they're at this table. They like candles,

542
00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: they join hands, they say a little prayer. Lady Doyle

543
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,959
Speaker 1: sits real condidence, and still Rudini is still or stir

544
00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: Arthur Conan Doyle is still everybody's waiting. Then all of

545
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 1: a sudden, Lady Doyle gets a jolt, right, and she

546
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:50,800
Speaker 1: starts writing her pen and she's just writing. And when

547
00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: I say writing, she fills up fifteen pages of writing

548
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 1: just that. That's which is a lot. Right now. Conan Doyle,

549
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 1: being the writer than he is, he records this. So

550
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: here is Conan Doyle's take on the scene. Quote. It

551
00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,000
Speaker 1: was a singular scene. My wife with her hand flying

552
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 1: wildly beating the table while she scribbled at a furious

553
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: rate I sitting opposite and tearing sheet after sheet from

554
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 1: the block as it was filled up, and tossing each

555
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 1: across to Houdini while he sat silent, looking grimmer and

556
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: paler every moment. Oh right, that's the scene, Yeah, exactly.

557
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 1: So he's sitting there reading these fifteen pages from his

558
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:33,040
Speaker 1: dead mother from Lady Doyle's flailing around exactly beating the table,

559
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,040
Speaker 1: and his mother is saying, like pretty much all the

560
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 1: stuff you expect a dead person to say. She's likes,

561
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: I miss you, I love you, I'm so happy in

562
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,000
Speaker 1: this life, and what are the what's your one quota?

563
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 1: And it is so different over here, so much larger

564
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 1: and bigger and more beautiful. It sounds like a pretty

565
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,880
Speaker 1: generic mess, right. It sounds like a kid describing heaven.

566
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 1: It's so big and they got water slides, and like

567
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: everything's cool, thrilling, it's thrilling, it's the best. It's what's

568
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: it like? A right? It's beautiful. And the funny part, though,

569
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 1: is it's at the very end the funny your part.

570
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 1: So Judini's mother ends her transmission from the Great Beyond

571
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: by saying, God bless you, sir Arthur for what you

572
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:17,760
Speaker 1: are doing my last my last parting words to my

573
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,520
Speaker 1: my son. Your buddy's amazing, Like, he's a gee. You

574
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: should listen to him. He's so handsome. So, you know,

575
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: Conan Doyle says he quote found it all profoundly moving.

576
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: He called it a striking affirmation of the soul's immortality,

577
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 1: demounds and sufferable. Right, Rudini not so effusive. He was like, yeah, whatever.

578
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,239
Speaker 1: So Conan Doyle goes forward to the press. He's like,

579
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: I have convinced to deny the Great Judini that spiritualism

580
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: is real. Go and ask him and he will tell

581
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: you all. So some news report it's like, hey, Hudini,

582
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,840
Speaker 1: we heard from Conan doll that you believe spiritalism is real.

583
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: What's up, bro? And he's like, he told you what

584
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: you like. Literally, he quotes says like, ha ha ha

585
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: in the paper. In the paper, I looked up the

586
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: old newspaper that it's ha ha ha ha. And then

587
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: after that he's like he starts basically questioning the newspaper report.

588
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, it's something I found kind of funny. Mare.

589
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,480
Speaker 1: It's that my mother spoke to me from the great beyond.

590
00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: But she spoke in English. There's a language she never

591
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: spoke here on planet Earth. I just find that kind

592
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,959
Speaker 1: of curious. Another thing I found curious she began her

593
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: message with a sign of a cross, which is weird

594
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 1: because she was Jewish and the wife of a rabbi.

595
00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,760
Speaker 1: So you know, I'm just finding a little bit of suspicious.

596
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: She converted in the afterlife. But yeah, exactly right. I mean,

597
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:35,960
Speaker 1: like you could understand if they're looking at it is

598
00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: coming out in English. Maybe it's like a universal language,

599
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:44,880
Speaker 1: that that's what is. Yeah, of course my wife writes

600
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:50,400
Speaker 1: in English. All she speaks. Wife's name is Lady Gaga ps.

601
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: So he did. He feels a little bit bad about

602
00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: kind of like this. And his friend in the press,

603
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 1: what that brust say. So he's like, all right, when

604
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:00,280
Speaker 1: we write a letter to Conan Doyle, and I quote,

605
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,280
Speaker 1: I know you are honorable and sincere and think I

606
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 1: owe you an explanation regarding the letter I received through

607
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: the hands of Lady Doyle. I was heartily in accord

608
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 1: and sympathy at that seance. But the letter was written

609
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: entirely in English, and my sainted mother could not read, write,

610
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 1: or speak the English language. I did not care to

611
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 1: discuss it at the time, because my emotions and trying

612
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 1: to sense the presence of my mother, if there was

613
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: such a thing possible, kept me quiet until time passed

614
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 1: and I could give it the proper deduction. I trust

615
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: my clearing up the seance from my point of view

616
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: is satisfactory, and that you do not harbor any ill feeling,

617
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: because I hold both Lady Doyle and yourself and the

618
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: highest esteem. I know you treat this as a religion,

619
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 1: but personally I cannot do so. For up to the

620
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,600
Speaker 1: present time and with all my experiences, I have never

621
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: seen or heard anything that could really convert me. Now.

622
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: The two start to part ways at this point, but

623
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: we're not done. A year later, Conan Doyle decides that

624
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:56,560
Speaker 1: spiritualism quote is God's most important message to the world.

625
00:33:57,320 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: You've doubling down hardcore right. The next dear who deny

626
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: publishes that book that I told you about, Whodini, a

627
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 1: magician among the Spirits. He sends a book to Sir

628
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 1: Arthur Conan Doyle and well, I want to put it

629
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:13,480
Speaker 1: this way, It's like a literary distract. I'll tell you

630
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 1: all about it right after this break, and we'll get

631
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: into Spiritualism's revenge against Judini. Like it. Okay, it's four

632
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 1: who Denie puts out his book Hudini a magician among

633
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: the spirits. Now I told you he dissed his boyd

634
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,879
Speaker 1: Conan Doyle. You want to know what he actually said? Yeah,

635
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote. Spiritualism has claimed among its followers numbers

636
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 1: of brilliant minds. Whether these great minds have been misdirected,

637
00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:58,960
Speaker 1: whether they have followed the subject because they were convinced

638
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: fully of its true or whether they have been successfully

639
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:06,840
Speaker 1: hoodwinked by some fraudulent medium, are matters of conjecture and opinion.

640
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 1: One such is Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. It is impossible

641
00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:12,279
Speaker 1: not to respect the belief of this great author, who

642
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: is wholeheartedly and unflinchingly thrown his life and soul into

643
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: the conversion of unbelievers. Sir Arthur believes in his great mind.

644
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 1: There is no doubt. But that's not the distract part.

645
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 1: That's the respect part. Here's the distract. There is no

646
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: doubt that Sir Arthur is sincere in his belief, and

647
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 1: it is this sincerity which has been one of the

648
00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:34,760
Speaker 1: fundamentals of our friendship I have respected everything he has said,

649
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: and I've always been unbiased because at no time if

650
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,239
Speaker 1: I refused to follow the subject with an open mind,

651
00:35:39,560 --> 00:35:43,560
Speaker 1: I cannot say the same for him. Ah yeah right,

652
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 1: I don't. I love that disc just because it's like

653
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: one of those nineteenth century distancs. But I cannot say

654
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 1: the same for my right honorable friend. It's a classy

655
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 1: dis No. You know, did you ever get into distracts.

656
00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 1: It doesn't seem like that would be your thing. I

657
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: can't imagine you're like throwing on the latest hip hop distract. Yeah,

658
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,040
Speaker 1: that's not my thing. No, I mean I kind of

659
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: just goes along really well with like the this battle

660
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: between them in terms of their beliefs. You know, let

661
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:15,719
Speaker 1: everyone just do what they want to do, believe what

662
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:18,400
Speaker 1: they want to believe. I don't believe in like the converting,

663
00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 1: and I don't think it's I don't know, I don't

664
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:25,799
Speaker 1: distracts and like whatever. Let people's behave stupid behavior, show

665
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: them who, show out who they are. Let it went out,

666
00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: because all you're doing is just escalating it. And I

667
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,560
Speaker 1: don't know, you guys, squash it is what I'm trying

668
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: to squash that beef swatch the beef. See the beef?

669
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 1: Where's the beef? Doyle is not impressed with Udini's book.

670
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: He writes, literally writes on the flap of it a

671
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 1: malicious book full of every sort of misrepresentation? Is that

672
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 1: what he went into the library and wrote, like when

673
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 1: someone would check it out and like, oh, oh, never mind, no,

674
00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:55,200
Speaker 1: like on this or Arthur doyle dot com page, you

675
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 1: can find this book and there is the flap open,

676
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: so you can see his writing where like they're still

677
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,959
Speaker 1: doing the distract back and forth. But that's a good

678
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: disc tract, like he just he puts it in there,

679
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:06,960
Speaker 1: and then oh, so now you're a fan of I

680
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:12,280
Speaker 1: like the private distracts. That's fair. That's fair. So around

681
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: this time, so we've gone from nineteen twenties, were at

682
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: ninety four, Conan Doyle is like, you know what, as

683
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 1: I told you, this is the most important spiritual realization

684
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 1: for all the mankind forever and ever. So he goes

685
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 1: to where Parliament it says, you know, a parliament, we

686
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 1: need to make Spiraitualism an official religion, possibly the official

687
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:34,000
Speaker 1: religion of the British Empire. People are like, all right,

688
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:35,799
Speaker 1: let's let's let's think about that, let's talk about that,

689
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,120
Speaker 1: and they actually do debate it. Meanwhile, not the actually

690
00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: becoming an official religion of the monarchy, but they're just

691
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:46,760
Speaker 1: recognized the religion. Right. Meanwhile, over you know, across the pond,

692
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,880
Speaker 1: as they say in nineteen twenty six, Judini's working the

693
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 1: opposite direction. He goes to Congress and at this point

694
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: he's been basically he's got this team of special investigators.

695
00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 1: He's going around like New York, Washington, Boston, wherever you can,

696
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 1: and is debunking every psychic and medium he can. He's

697
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: got these people going into the seance, has taken notes

698
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: and then so he's got this campaign and the culmination

699
00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,560
Speaker 1: of this campaign. As he goes before Congress and says,

700
00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 1: we need a law banning fortune tellers in America and

701
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 1: he starts testifying before he's like a professional buzz kill exactly.

702
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,880
Speaker 1: Now the congressional hearings they take it legit seriously. But

703
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 1: also you have to imagine the scene. Every fortune teller

704
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,719
Speaker 1: and psychic and medium on the Eastern Seaboard goes there

705
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 1: to fight for their and also the other people organized crime,

706
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,560
Speaker 1: because who is backing these people organized crime? Really? So

707
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:33,799
Speaker 1: they're also there. So everybody is against this. He's going

708
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:39,520
Speaker 1: against a lot of desperate and dangerous types. So Judini, meanwhile,

709
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: he's loving it. He's a showman. He's got the biggest

710
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:43,960
Speaker 1: stage in the world. All the newspapers are writing about it,

711
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 1: so he uses Congress as his stage. He's doing magic

712
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: tricks up there. Yeah, he literally is. He does, like

713
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 1: the whole thing. He fakes a message from Ben Franklin,

714
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:54,719
Speaker 1: just to show them how easy it is to like

715
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: do a message from the great beyond. He fakes one.

716
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,320
Speaker 1: He also then at one point he pulls out of

717
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: his sucker, which is all the people that have been

718
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: have lost family fortunes to mediums and oh yeah, no totally.

719
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 1: And these are people that you know, his investigators that

720
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 1: dealt with. And it wasn't just like I heard. It

721
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,320
Speaker 1: was like, no, these are wanting to tell you exactly

722
00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:15,399
Speaker 1: how much they lost. So, like Judini says at one point,

723
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: bringing up his boy, Sir Arthur Conan Doyle, there are

724
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: millions of dollars stolen by clairvoyance and mediums every year,

725
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: and I can prove it. So Arthur Conan Doyle is

726
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: the biggest dupe. Oh yeah, right, once for friends. Now

727
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:31,440
Speaker 1: he's like dressing. He tried to convince him, and I

728
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: think he sees us Arthur providing an air of legitimacy.

729
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 1: You can't have Folms his author saying this is reasonable

730
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,799
Speaker 1: and rational. And Einstein, as I pointed out, has made

731
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 1: it so they've thrown open the doors. At this point,

732
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: everybody believes everything is now on the table about reality.

733
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: So you can't have one of the strongest minds being saying, oh, yes,

734
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: we need to go towards spiritualism, as Einstein saying, now

735
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: things real, so now. And during this hearing, Judini has

736
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: one of his special investigators also testify. Her name is

737
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,360
Speaker 1: Rose Backenberg, and Deer Rose gets up and she testifies,

738
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: and she says, I know for a fact the table

739
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 1: talking seances are held at the White House in the

740
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: presence of President Coolidge and his family, because let me

741
00:40:15,280 --> 00:40:18,760
Speaker 1: grab my pearls. So she also says meanwhile that Senator

742
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 1: Supreme Court justices also visit these clairvoyants, and one name

743
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:26,480
Speaker 1: in particular comes up, Madame Marcia. Madame Marcia is a

744
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:29,439
Speaker 1: clairvoyant to the rich and famous. She's like the mad

745
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 1: member of Gene whatever Gene. Madame Gane think Jean Gray,

746
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 1: I think she was who right, Reagan and Nancy, She's

747
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 1: that era whatever, Yeah, she was like so Macknburgh's testimony.

748
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: While she's on the stand, Marcius and some others, these

749
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,239
Speaker 1: other fortune tellers and mediums are like basically heckling her.

750
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: People are jumping up and shouting whys right and now

751
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,120
Speaker 1: Lady Marcia, though, is pretty much kind of holding back.

752
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: She's waiting for Hudini to get back on the stand.

753
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 1: And while Judini's on the stand, this is like in

754
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 1: the newspapers. I was reading old newspapers about this. The

755
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: accounts were insane. So he's up on the stand but

756
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 1: doing his routine. It's just amusing himself, amusing Congress, mocking everybody.

757
00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 1: And he pulls out an envelope with ten large in it.

758
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: He's like this, ten tho dollars will go to any

759
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:19,360
Speaker 1: medium who can prove any any sensation of perception or

760
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:20,960
Speaker 1: any of that stuff you all claim to be able

761
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 1: to do. And if I can't like dispute it or

762
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 1: prove it to be a sham, I will give you

763
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:29,520
Speaker 1: this ten thousand dollars. Lady Marcia, Madam Marcia, this is

764
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 1: her opportunity. She jumps up. She's like, now about he's mine,

765
00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 1: and he's like, excuse me why. She's like, I knew

766
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: when President Harding would die and I said that six

767
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,640
Speaker 1: years before, and I also predicted his election and he's

768
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: like that doesn't count. Like, no, I said, you have

769
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:47,399
Speaker 1: to be should have just done the like Drew Berry

770
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: Moore firestarter and like to use your mind to set someone.

771
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,080
Speaker 1: But now hand it over. Well, he's like he toldly

772
00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,720
Speaker 1: dismisses her. She's like, okay, okay, that's cool. How about

773
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: this when November comes around, you won't be here because

774
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,799
Speaker 1: he literally will not be in that room come November. Yeah,

775
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:12,120
Speaker 1: that's true. Well, spend has despite of all Judini's best efforts,

776
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:16,239
Speaker 1: this bill to band fortune tellers, it almost passes, It

777
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: misses by a few votes. He literally like almost changes

778
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: American law. But anyway, November comes around and Hudini drops dead.

779
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,239
Speaker 1: Literally doesn't make it to November. He drops dead on Halloween,

780
00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: the last day of October. Spooky. He called it right,

781
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 1: good for her, so you know, he can say that

782
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:35,719
Speaker 1: they are fakers or liars or whatever, but she called

783
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: your dad. So anyways, dude dies of a burst appendix,

784
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:41,640
Speaker 1: which was the result of him being punched by a fan.

785
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: And a lot of people have heard this, but they

786
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:45,319
Speaker 1: I've often when I heard the story was that a

787
00:42:45,320 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: fan walked up to him and said, hey, I can

788
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:48,759
Speaker 1: heard you can like tighten your abs and be able

789
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:51,560
Speaker 1: to take any punch. That's not the story. The actual

790
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: story is what I'm about to tell you. He was

791
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 1: in Montreal and he was like giving apach to performances.

792
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: He invites you all these students from McGill University backstage

793
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: to talk to him. He wants to basically appeal to

794
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: the young minds about like, look, be rational, don't not

795
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: believe all this hoodoo voodoo stuff. And they're like, okay, okay,

796
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: well tell us more Houdini. And so while he's sitting there,

797
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 1: he had hurt his ankle earlier, so he's laying down

798
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 1: on a couch. One of the students, this dude named

799
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 1: Jay Gordon Whitehead Ja Guarden Whiteheads, like, bro, I heard

800
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:19,840
Speaker 1: you can be punched in the stomach and it's like

801
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 1: not even a problem for you. He's like, yeah, that's true.

802
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 1: He starts punching him before he can even flex up.

803
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 1: And this one of the witnesses said that quote Whitehead

804
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:31,680
Speaker 1: punched Judini with four or five terribly forcible, deliberate, well

805
00:43:31,719 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: directed blows to his gut. So Hudini, not ready for them,

806
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:37,320
Speaker 1: just sits there writhing in pain. The dude is basically

807
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: punching his spine through his stomach. So it's like drunken

808
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,800
Speaker 1: college kid is just wailing on him, tuning him up. Okay,

809
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:46,719
Speaker 1: but he gets crazier because in his book The Man

810
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: Who Killed Hudini, author Don Bell put forward this radical

811
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 1: theory that Whitehead was actually an assassin sent by the spiritualists.

812
00:43:55,320 --> 00:44:00,200
Speaker 1: Madame Marcia, Yes, strikes again. Oh, I'm telling do you

813
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,319
Speaker 1: can't mess with the you can't mess with organized crime

814
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 1: and psychic at the same time. Exactly. That's just a

815
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 1: recipe for disaster. Anyway. So at the time, Bell points

816
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 1: out that all these people said that this dude Whitehead

817
00:44:10,440 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 1: have been basically on the hunt for Hudini, going all

818
00:44:12,400 --> 00:44:15,120
Speaker 1: around Montreal, going you've seen Houdini? Who who is Hudini? Here?

819
00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: I heard Whodini was here, y'all seen him? And so

820
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:20,239
Speaker 1: like sometimes when you talk about Whodini, I am imagining

821
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: like the eighties. Go ahead, it's just a frazzled manager.

822
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: Let's see. Okay, So at this point Judini's he dies

823
00:44:35,400 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: from the blows and his burst appendix. A couple of

824
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 1: years later, actually four years later, Conan Doyle joins his friend.

825
00:44:41,200 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 1: On the other side, he also dies. Now, when Conan

826
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 1: Doyle dies, the New York Time writes an obituary and

827
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,480
Speaker 1: they quote him and I quote, I pledge my honor

828
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:53,080
Speaker 1: that spiritualism is true, and I know that spiritualism is

829
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:58,240
Speaker 1: infinitely more important than literature, art, politics, or in fact

830
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:02,480
Speaker 1: anything in the world. Right, dude went down. He doubled

831
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 1: down all the way and his road that committed to

832
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,920
Speaker 1: the bit, you know, wrote it to the end. Anyway,

833
00:45:08,040 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: during his memorial service, this a medium, because there were

834
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: plenty of mediums at his funeral. They reported seeing for

835
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,839
Speaker 1: Arthur Conan Doyle at his own funeral, like, oh, look

836
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: there he is right there. And then the clairvoyant goes

837
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,160
Speaker 1: and he told me a message. I'll write it down.

838
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 1: I wrote down a little piece of pay but here

839
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,960
Speaker 1: you go, missus. Lady Doyle gives me this. Lady Doyle

840
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: was like, hmmm, this is definitely my husband. But in

841
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,280
Speaker 1: all honestly her Conan Doyle's son, the one who didn't die, Adrian.

842
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: He said, the spirit message answers all the tests which

843
00:45:35,000 --> 00:45:37,280
Speaker 1: my father and mother had agreed upon before his passing.

844
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: I can only agree with mother that the messages of

845
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 1: so intimate a character it cannot be made public, even

846
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: to our closest friends. So he got nasty right, and

847
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:49,279
Speaker 1: then his mother, Lady Jane Conan Doyle, She said, I'm

848
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:52,040
Speaker 1: perfectly convinced that the messages from my husband. I am

849
00:45:52,080 --> 00:45:54,239
Speaker 1: assured of this fact that he has been here with us,

850
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 1: as I am sure that I am speaking to you.

851
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 1: It is a happy message, one that is cheering and encouraging.

852
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 1: It is rushes and sacred. Oh it's nice. I mean,

853
00:46:03,960 --> 00:46:07,319
Speaker 1: whether it's true or not. She it gives her great comfort. So,

854
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: giving Conan Doyle his last final words, I give you

855
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:16,080
Speaker 1: one quote more for him, he said, We who believe

856
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: in the psychic revelation, and who appreciate that a perception

857
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 1: of these things is of the utmost importance, certainly have

858
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: hurled ourselves against the obstinacy of our time. Possibly we

859
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: have allowed some of our lives to be gnawed away.

860
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:31,360
Speaker 1: And what for the moment seemed a vain and thankless quest.

861
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:34,359
Speaker 1: Only the future can show whether the sacrifice was worth it,

862
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: So the question is was a sacrifice worth it? Who's

863
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,640
Speaker 1: to say Houdini? He famously said, I'm just an ordinary

864
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:44,839
Speaker 1: mortal trying to get along, and really aren't we all

865
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: kind of I mean, that's what you always tell me,

866
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,120
Speaker 1: like be more patient with these people. Everyone's just trying

867
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:52,319
Speaker 1: to everyone's doing their own things. So the question is,

868
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,799
Speaker 1: is in a matter of belief, do you think that

869
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: what Houdini was doing was good or Sir Arthur Conan

870
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 1: Doyle was doing is good? Is good? Not even a

871
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 1: question in this I think that like, in terms of

872
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of I'd say, the bulk

873
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: of Houdini's motivations seem to be protecting people from criminals.

874
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:16,960
Speaker 1: And that's where our crime is, of these like ridiculous

875
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: criminals who are preying upon people and in a really

876
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: vulnerable time. And so I can get with that, like

877
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 1: weed out the criminals. But I think that there was

878
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 1: also I gather from what you've been telling me that

879
00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: Houdini also kind of wants to be right and tell

880
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,040
Speaker 1: people what to do. And so I think if you

881
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 1: can protect people from being scammed by these con artists,

882
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: that's one thing, But if you're devaluing their experience. Um,

883
00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: I'll tell you a little quick story about the time

884
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 1: I was a psychic. Yeah, in the early days of

885
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: a O l um. You know how they had all

886
00:47:55,960 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: those chat rooms, and my brother here and I and

887
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 1: then we got my mom involved in it too. We

888
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 1: used to like, we used to start this chat room

889
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 1: called Toady three thousand and I don't know how we

890
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 1: came up with the name, but we said we were

891
00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:15,120
Speaker 1: a psychic cat and yeah, and people would come in yeah,

892
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: and we'd say, you have to tell us three things.

893
00:48:17,600 --> 00:48:21,200
Speaker 1: Give us a give us your star sign, your give

894
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:24,840
Speaker 1: us a random number, and a question you want answered.

895
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: And so we would take the San Francisco Chronicle horoscope

896
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 1: and have it ready and they would tell us, like,

897
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:35,960
Speaker 1: this is my sign seven, and then they ask a question.

898
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: You can tell so much by what people ask. So

899
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: it's like am I going to get that job? Should

900
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:42,759
Speaker 1: I break up with this guy? And so we would

901
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: type out whatever the horoscope of the paper was for

902
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,759
Speaker 1: their sign. But then we would answer the question of

903
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:49,440
Speaker 1: like yeah, you know what like because first of all,

904
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:51,719
Speaker 1: if you have to ask is my boyfriend cheating on me?

905
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,040
Speaker 1: He's cheating on you, all right, done, So we would

906
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:56,840
Speaker 1: kind of feed it and like you're worth more than that.

907
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,759
Speaker 1: Like so we were basically these therapists and we did

908
00:48:59,800 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: it just messing with people. And then it cold grew

909
00:49:02,239 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 1: and so they'd be like waiting like lines, people waiting

910
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: for their reading from toty three thousands like a cat,

911
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,440
Speaker 1: and it got so out of control. We're getting messages

912
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,000
Speaker 1: all the time on that account of like when are

913
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:16,799
Speaker 1: you going to be in the chat room? I really

914
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: need a reading? And we weren't charging any money, but

915
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,480
Speaker 1: a lot of times we're just talking people through really

916
00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 1: crap situations. I mean, in other times we'd mess with

917
00:49:25,719 --> 00:49:28,680
Speaker 1: people like we're not telling them to jump off of

918
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: buildings or whatever, we're telling them to do dumb stuff. Um. So, anyway,

919
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,240
Speaker 1: I think that like people are looking for a connection.

920
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 1: That's like our whole purpose here, right, just to connect

921
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: with other people and other living things. And when you're hurting,

922
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 1: you look for connections. If you find it in something

923
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,399
Speaker 1: that maybe not everyone believes in, more power to you,

924
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 1: you know, as long as you're not getting scammed. So

925
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: the solace that is offered by a medium. There's nothing

926
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: necessarily wrong with that if the person is willing to

927
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,319
Speaker 1: pay an amount that doesn't ruin their finances. Well, I mean,

928
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:00,719
Speaker 1: I don't even know. I guess you have to like

929
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: compensate someone for their time, right, So it's like a therapist.

930
00:50:03,960 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: But it's most of these, like the mediums that are

931
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,560
Speaker 1: con artists. They're taking ridiculous amounts of money. It's not

932
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:12,920
Speaker 1: like the five dollars to remove the witch's curse for

933
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,279
Speaker 1: the l amen exactly. And then they're always like, well,

934
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 1: if you throw in another thousand, then I can do this,

935
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 1: and that's you know, that's garbage. But I think, like, so,

936
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: I see what Houdini's doing, but I think that he

937
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:30,239
Speaker 1: also kind of dug message, like tearing other people down

938
00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:33,080
Speaker 1: to be the smartest one. Now, the harder question is

939
00:50:33,320 --> 00:50:36,200
Speaker 1: in our battle of Houdini versus Conan Doyle, can you

940
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: pick a side? No? Yeah, I can't either, And I

941
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,200
Speaker 1: think that's what makes it an interesting story. By the way,

942
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 1: in New York State, fortune telling is still considered a

943
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:48,480
Speaker 1: class being misdemeanor. They got a law on their books

944
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:50,600
Speaker 1: and the state books and it's still there, and they

945
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,160
Speaker 1: just don't enforce it. But you know, that's the sole

946
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:56,960
Speaker 1: whole story of America. Like Columbia they got their magical realism.

947
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:00,720
Speaker 1: We have magical thinking that is so true. That so true.

948
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 1: So what do you think is a ridiculous takeaway here

949
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 1: other than you know, whose side do you take? I

950
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:08,400
Speaker 1: think the ridiculous takeaway is that it's not a crime

951
00:51:09,040 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: to believe what you believe, as long as you're not

952
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:14,400
Speaker 1: pushing it on someone else. It is a crime to

953
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: take advantage of other people, especially in like a delicate state,

954
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:21,279
Speaker 1: you know, if you just come through these atrocities and

955
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:26,120
Speaker 1: these pandemics and whatnot. Um, So that's my takeaway, like,

956
00:51:26,200 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 1: let you know, if it makes someone happy, let him

957
00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:30,759
Speaker 1: believe it. Don't force your beliefs on other people, but

958
00:51:31,719 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 1: live and let live like that. I'm would be h.

959
00:51:34,640 --> 00:51:36,680
Speaker 1: Don't take on the mob and Madame Marcia at the

960
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: same time, that's a probably much more practical take Yeah,

961
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 1: don't don't go up against the spiritualists of the Mob.

962
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,800
Speaker 1: At the same time, thanks for joining us. I'm Elizabeth Dutton,

963
00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:53,400
Speaker 1: I am Saren Burnett used to quote that and I

964
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,440
Speaker 1: quote you can find his online. A ridiculous crime on

965
00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:58,759
Speaker 1: both Twitter and Instagram. You got a tip for us

966
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: about a ridiculous crime that you'd like to hear about

967
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,759
Speaker 1: one maybe that you perpetrated. Hit us up with it.

968
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,240
Speaker 1: Maybe you want to confess her ridiculous crime that somebody

969
00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 1: else around you did. Let us know. Email us a

970
00:52:08,840 --> 00:52:11,920
Speaker 1: ridiculous crime at gmail dot com. Thanks for listening, and

971
00:52:11,920 --> 00:52:20,200
Speaker 1: we'll catch you all next time. Goodbye. Ridiculous Crime is

972
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:23,279
Speaker 1: hosted by Elizabeth Dutton and Zaren Burnett, produced and edited

973
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: by the Grand Mesmerist Dave Coustin researches by the all

974
00:52:26,080 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: seeing eye of Lady Marissa Brown. The theme song is

975
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:31,920
Speaker 1: by Voodoo Daddy Thomas Lee and the Witch Dr Travis Dutton.

976
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,359
Speaker 1: Executive producers are Ben Crystal Ball Bowlan and No Look

977
00:52:35,440 --> 00:52:39,680
Speaker 1: into My Eyes Brown. Ridiculous Crime is a production of

978
00:52:39,719 --> 00:52:42,240
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. Four more podcasts to my heart Radio,

979
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,239
Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

980
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:46,560
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.