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Speaker 1: On this episode of Newsworld. In his twenty years in

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Speaker 1: the Northern District of West Virginia, first as an assistant

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Speaker 1: and then as the sitting US Attorney, William Calabash prosecuted

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Speaker 1: all manner of crimes and criminals, ranging from old school

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Speaker 1: moonshiners who operated a massive marijuanaing, to sex traffickers to

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Speaker 1: violent Jamaican posses to major drug dealers at the forefront

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Speaker 1: of the cocaine wave. He also convicted the notorious godfather

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Speaker 1: of Midwestern crime, Paul Hankish, and finished his career by

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Speaker 1: bringing down the murderous and corrupt Swami of the Hari

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Speaker 1: Krishna Movement. He pioneered the use of the Rico Statute

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Speaker 1: to bring criminals to justice and became the first US

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Speaker 1: attorney ever to make use of multi jurisdictional task forces

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Speaker 1: and investigated granjuries. I'm really pleased to welcome my guest,

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Speaker 1: former US Attorney William Calabash, and he's here to talk

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Speaker 1: about his new book, Justice Never Rests, a US Attorney's

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Speaker 1: battle against murderers, drug lords, mob kingpins, and colts. Bill, Welcome,

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Speaker 1: and thank you for joining me in news World.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to do this.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've had a career that sounds like a

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Speaker 1: series of movies. It's pretty wild.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I've heard that several people who have read the

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Speaker 3: book indicated that this should be a movie, And in fact,

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Speaker 3: I have a call later in this evening with producer

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Speaker 3: out in Hollywood who's read the book, so we may

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Speaker 3: be going in that direction.

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Speaker 1: Sir, that would be great. I'm very curious because you

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Speaker 1: didn't start out to be a lawyer. What made you

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Speaker 1: decide to go to law school and pursue this as

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Speaker 1: a career.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 3: I graduated from Brown University in nineteen sixty six, and

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Speaker 3: that was at the height of the Vietnam War, and

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Speaker 3: you had two options. Of course, they were using the

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Speaker 3: draft number system, and I had a draft number where

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Speaker 3: I would have been drafted.

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Speaker 2: And so the two options that you had.

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Speaker 3: At the end of the year to get a deferment

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Speaker 3: would be to become a teacher and teach in a

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Speaker 3: certain designated area, or you could get a deferment to

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Speaker 3: go to.

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Speaker 2: Law school for three years.

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Speaker 3: So I was not interested in teaching, and several of

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Speaker 3: my classmates were interested in law school. My fraternity brothers

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Speaker 3: and so I applied to law school as an alternative

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Speaker 3: to being drafted or taking another course.

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of curious about the story about why you

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Speaker 1: dropped out of physics and transferred over to history, because

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Speaker 1: it's a very human story.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I went to a private military school in Wheeling,

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Speaker 3: which has excellent academic credentials, and I did very well.

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Speaker 3: Was the second my class, and I did extremely well

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Speaker 3: in math and physics, and I thought I was really

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Speaker 3: smart and could go in that direction in my career.

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Speaker 3: And that was my first year at Brown. My second

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Speaker 3: year when things really got complicated in physics courses, in

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Speaker 3: chemistry courses, and all those types of courses required not

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Speaker 3: only classroom work but a lab. And I think the

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Speaker 3: physics course was maybe three hours with a three or

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Speaker 3: four hour lab. And I was walking across campus with

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Speaker 3: a stack of books for the physics course, and I

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Speaker 3: saw one of my fraternity brothers carrying a paperback book

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Speaker 3: and I.

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Speaker 2: Said, well, what's that. He says, that's his textbook for history.

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Speaker 3: I balanced the way of each books and I says,

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Speaker 3: maybe I may be interested in that. I was interested

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Speaker 3: in history when I was in high school too, So

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Speaker 3: that's how it came about that I became a history major.

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Speaker 1: So when you decided to go to law school, how

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Speaker 1: did you end up a West Virginia.

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Speaker 3: I applied to several schools, but West Virginia was probably

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Speaker 3: the one I thought I could get accepted to. I

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Speaker 3: didn't have exactly a stellar academic background Brown. I was

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Speaker 3: kind of a gentleman see type student and probably had

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Speaker 3: a better average and other critter activity. And I thought

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Speaker 3: that would give me a good opportunity there. And with

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Speaker 3: my lsat scores, I thought that would give me an

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Speaker 3: opportunity with the background going to, you know, a prestigious

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Speaker 3: school like Brown, but I would have an opportunity to

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Speaker 3: go there. And my family was back in West Virginia

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Speaker 3: and so forth we wanted to get back home.

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Speaker 1: So when you graduated from law school and you were

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Speaker 1: admitted to the West Virginia State Bar, you were then

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Speaker 1: offered a commission as a captain in the US Army.

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Speaker 1: Why did you accept?

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Speaker 3: Oh, it was an excellent opportunity, and that would give

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Speaker 3: me an opportunity to do two things. One to really

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Speaker 3: gain a lot of experience in practice of law, and

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Speaker 3: then also to.

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Speaker 2: Serve my country. In West Virginia, it's a very prominent

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Speaker 2: serving your country and things like that. So that's the reason.

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Speaker 1: When you're in the Judge Advocate General Corps, you've actually

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Speaker 1: had opportunities to experience trials in court much greater than

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Speaker 1: the same opportunity if you were, like in a big

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Speaker 1: law firm. What was that like to be in your

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Speaker 1: mid twenties in a military court in Fort Hood trying

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Speaker 1: cases that went all the way to capital.

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Speaker 3: Very great experience. It's a tremendous opportunity. And at that

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Speaker 3: time the speaker of what happened is the Military Justice

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Speaker 3: Actor I think was nineteen sixty eight was passed and

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Speaker 3: that required that there'd be lawyers on both sides, on

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Speaker 3: prosecutor on defense.

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Speaker 2: Previous to that, they leaded the line.

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Speaker 3: Officers as prosecutors and they weren't that effective. So there

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Speaker 3: was an opportunity to really get into the courtroom because

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Speaker 3: you would have people with law degrees on both sides.

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Speaker 3: And I did both sides, and it was a tremendous

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Speaker 3: learning experience where you would study the law. One day,

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Speaker 3: you may be trying to get a piece of evidence

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Speaker 3: on a search and caesar. Next day you would maybe

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Speaker 3: trying to keep that out. So from an academic experience point,

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Speaker 3: you couldn't get that experience into private practice.

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Speaker 1: You have to switch your psychology. I mean, half a

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Speaker 1: day you're prosecutor half a day you're a defense attorney.

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Speaker 1: Those are really dramatically different attitudes and dramatically different arguments,

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Speaker 1: aren't they.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it was challenging legal wise, and of course the

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Speaker 3: law was consistent what change would be the facts of

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Speaker 3: a particular case. And then I also became a chief

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Speaker 3: of Military Justice, which meant that I reviewed all the

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Speaker 3: court martial transcripts and did a review for the commanding

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Speaker 3: General on what action authentity it would take on those.

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Speaker 3: And that was a very good experience for what later

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Speaker 3: became a pellic practice when I went into the US

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Speaker 3: Attorney's office.

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Speaker 1: So you really we're getting a remarkable volume of experience

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Speaker 1: compared to what would have happened if you'd gone into

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Speaker 1: a normal, big civilian law firm.

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Speaker 2: Oh correct.

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Speaker 3: Fort Hood was a pretty active anti war installation. Jane

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Speaker 3: Fonda would come down there, So we had a lot

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Speaker 3: of difficult cases involving disobeying orders and things of.

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Speaker 2: That particular case.

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Speaker 3: And I mentioned one particular one in the book where

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Speaker 3: I was a defense attorney for an individual who was

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Speaker 3: charged with disobeying orders, and I had to go into

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Speaker 3: the Olio Strut coffee house, which was the hotbed of

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Speaker 3: the scent, to meet my client in full uniform. So

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Speaker 3: that's another interesting experience. I don't think you could match

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Speaker 3: the experience that I got at ford Hood.

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Speaker 2: Both militarily and practically speaking.

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Speaker 1: You get a I think remarkable opportunity. First of all,

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Speaker 1: you're approached by the Organized Crime Drug Enforcement Task Force,

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Speaker 1: but that would take you to Detroit. But then luckily

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Speaker 1: an opening came up in the US Attorney's Office in

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Speaker 1: the Northern District of West Virginia, which would take you

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Speaker 1: back home. I mean, was that a pretty easy yes

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Speaker 1: to decide to be an assistant US Attorney?

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Speaker 2: Yes, it was.

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Speaker 3: It was pretty easy, and my background really fit in

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Speaker 3: perfectly with what the US Attorney's Office was. The Organized

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Speaker 3: Crime Drug Task Force was obviously more focused on organized

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Speaker 3: crime criminal prosecution, but the US Attorney's Office, and at

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Speaker 3: that time, there were only two assistants, and you had

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Speaker 3: really a broad range of legal actions, not only criminal

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Speaker 3: but civil action. And that gave me an opportunity to

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Speaker 3: be familiarized with the full practice of law. But basically

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Speaker 3: before that, my focus was primarily on criminal cases and

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Speaker 3: criminal appeals.

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Speaker 1: How much do you think that experience made you sort

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Speaker 1: of approach the courtroom differently than you would have done

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Speaker 1: without that.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what I would have done without that,

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Speaker 3: because when you're trying a case, you can look at

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Speaker 3: the law, you can look at the books, but you

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Speaker 3: also have to develop that sixth sense when a person

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Speaker 3: is a witness, how to handle a witness, how to

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Speaker 3: do cross examination actually, how to respond to a judge,

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Speaker 3: and more importantly, how to respond to a jury. And

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Speaker 3: that's the imasurable experience that I got starting with trying cases.

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Speaker 3: Even though the military court is a panel of officers,

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Speaker 3: it's a jury and you're talking to people and you're

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Speaker 3: trying to convince people one way or the other of

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Speaker 3: what your position is. So that's the kind of experience

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Speaker 3: that you cannot get unless you're actually in the courtroom.

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Speaker 1: When you become the assistant US attorney, what are your responsibilities?

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Speaker 1: What does an assistant US attorney do well?

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Speaker 3: In our office, I would handle some criminal cases, and

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Speaker 3: back in the seventies, what we were focusing on pretty

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Speaker 3: much is the property crimes, bank robberies, stolen cars with

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Speaker 3: the FBI, some tax cases and things of that nature. Civilly,

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Speaker 3: we would be doing social Security appeal cases, some Federal

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Speaker 3: Torque Claim Act cases representing some of the agencies if

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Speaker 3: they had to go into court, and in civil cases,

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Speaker 3: we did not have a real heavy civil case load.

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Speaker 2: Another area was condemnation cases.

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Speaker 3: Because there was a lot of condemnation cases at the

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Speaker 3: time because there was dams being built on a high river,

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Speaker 3: property being taken, and that was a pretty heavy part

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Speaker 3: of the civil doc and I did not do a

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Speaker 3: lot of that.

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Speaker 2: That was assigned to another attorney.

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Speaker 3: But that's the kind of broad kind of cases that

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Speaker 3: we had in the US Attorney's office.

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Speaker 1: You're now out of the army, and the army had

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Speaker 1: a pretty good rule about not being politically active. But

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Speaker 1: you have an interesting career as a Democrat and a Republican.

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Speaker 1: Explain that just a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Well.

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Speaker 3: Growing up in West Virginia at that time, as you

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Speaker 3: would be where West Virginia was a very strong Democratic state.

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Speaker 3: Senator Berg, Senator Randolph, later on Senator Rockefeller, and also

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Speaker 3: the state government was controlled. I was not interested in politics,

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Speaker 3: nor did anybody in my family interested in politics. So

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Speaker 3: when we become the register, you as a Democrat because

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Speaker 3: that's the only party that was around, and of course

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Speaker 3: you couldn't be active in politics in the army, and

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Speaker 3: I never was really active politically. When I would read

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Speaker 3: the appointment assistant US Attorney in a Democratic or Republican administration,

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Speaker 3: as a courtesy to the US Attorney, I changed registration

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Speaker 3: as a Republican. It really didn't have anything to do

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Speaker 3: with any political activity, of course, which I couldn't do anyway.

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Speaker 1: Then life changes in you end up as a Republican

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Speaker 1: and Ronald Reagan nominates you to be US attorney.

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Speaker 3: Yes, what happened there is in the Democratic administration there

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Speaker 3: the federal judge, there's a chapter on how he would

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Speaker 3: try to manipulate things. Never permitted the presidentially appointed US attorney.

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Speaker 3: He had a court appointed the US Attorney for I

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Speaker 3: think it was four years whatever it was there. And

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Speaker 3: then the Justice Department, the executive director at that time

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Speaker 3: was Bill Tyson. He said, the administration is not going

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Speaker 3: to permit a courter point an attorney. We're going to

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Speaker 3: have a presidentially appointed US attorney. And there were some

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Speaker 3: candidates that were submitted who for one reason or another,

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Speaker 3: were not acceptable, but they.

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Speaker 2: Did not want to take a side one way or

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Speaker 2: the other.

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Speaker 3: So Bill Tyson said, what we're going to do instead

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Speaker 3: of having the state submit a name, We're going to

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Speaker 3: submit your name over into the White House and see

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Speaker 3: what happens. And again, Governor Moore, who was the powerbroker

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Speaker 3: at the time, was kind of skeptical of me because

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Speaker 3: I had been a Democrat at one time for reasons

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Speaker 3: unknown to me why he would think that way. But

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Speaker 3: then there was the Prizer, Stanley Prizer, who was very

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Speaker 3: influential in my career. He was one of the big

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Speaker 3: defense attorneys in some of the corruption cases when I

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Speaker 3: was a US assistant. He convinced Governor Moore not to

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Speaker 3: oppose the appointment, and so with no opposition, the appointment

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Speaker 3: then went to the Congress and I was appointed, confirmed,

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Speaker 3: and pointed by a president.

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Speaker 1: Record, Now you are in charge. Hasn't it sort of

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Speaker 1: surprised you how much West Virginia has shifted from the

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Speaker 1: most democratic state in the country to the most republican

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Speaker 1: in our.

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Speaker 2: Lifetime, Yes, definitely.

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Speaker 3: As I say, I grew up with Senator Bird, Senator

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Speaker 3: Randolph and of course, I'm sure you're very familiar with

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Speaker 3: the power that they've had. That was very surprising, But

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Speaker 3: I wasn't really active in politics, and I couldn't be

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Speaker 3: active being in the US Attorney's office. But it was

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Speaker 3: really surprising to see the shift and see how it

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Speaker 3: continues on.

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Speaker 2: It's been really much better for the state.

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Speaker 3: I think the Republican administrations have done an excellent job

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Speaker 3: in promoting the state.

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Speaker 1: Now we get down to the sort of the heart

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Speaker 1: of the book, and you begin your book with a really,

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Speaker 1: i think incredibly dangerous account of receiving a mail bomb

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Speaker 1: from an inmate.

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Speaker 3: Well, some of these inmates who were doing time in

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Speaker 3: state prisons, and state prisons were at least in their view,

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Speaker 3: were not a very nice place to be and in fact,

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Speaker 3: a very bad place to be, and they for some

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Speaker 3: reason thought that during time in a federal installation would

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Speaker 3: be much easier. So what they would do is they

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Speaker 3: would commit a crime, a federal crime, and hoped that

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Speaker 3: they would be prosecuted, and then once they were convicted

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Speaker 3: and sentence, they would be transferred to a federal institution. Well,

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Speaker 3: mister Hamrick threatened the jodge, and we prosecuted him, but

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Speaker 3: he found out that he was going to have to

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Speaker 3: finish his state sentence before he started his federal sentence,

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Speaker 3: and he was very upset with that and said he

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Speaker 3: wanted to do something to make sure he could get.

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Speaker 2: Out of state custody.

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Speaker 3: So he ended up creating this bomb and sending it

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Speaker 3: to me.

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Speaker 1: Luckily, for you, the bomb didn't quite work. This must

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Speaker 1: have been an unbelievable moment.

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Speaker 2: It was.

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Speaker 3: I walked into the offices right after New Year's and

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Speaker 3: normally my secretary would bring the mail back, but she

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Speaker 3: wasn't present that particular day, and we didn't have at

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Speaker 3: that time. There was no running the mail through any

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Speaker 3: type of device or anything like that, and so I

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Speaker 3: saw it on her day and I picked it up.

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Speaker 3: It was in a legal size envelope. It had an

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Speaker 3: Oak Street address is where the county jail was located,

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Speaker 3: and we would get petitions from prisoners all the time,

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Speaker 3: so I didn't think anything of it looking at the address,

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Speaker 3: and I opened it up. When I saw the bu

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Speaker 3: teante lighters in there, sew some strapnel fly out of there,

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Speaker 3: I knew exactly what it was, and I immediately put

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Speaker 3: it on the desk and left and there was a

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Speaker 3: long hallway between my office and the Secretary's office, and

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Speaker 3: went down that hallway and immediately called the ATF in

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Speaker 3: the FBI.

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Speaker 1: How does a criminal in prison make abomb.

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Speaker 3: This guy was very inventive and there's a description in

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Speaker 3: the book about all his activities. He did a lot

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Speaker 3: of nasty things that he was a white supremacist, and

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Speaker 3: he was one guy in the speaker that I think

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Speaker 3: was capable of assassinating a public official, high level public official,

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Speaker 3: even bus up the president. And he got these items

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Speaker 3: in the commissary and a bututane lighter, he got a

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Speaker 3: legal pad, he got the shrap there. The way the

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Speaker 3: bomb was constructed, he was shaved down the utane lighters,

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Speaker 3: and then he would have a wire connected to a

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Speaker 3: nine volt battery and he would put a celerant on

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Speaker 3: the lightyers and then when the bomb opened up that

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Speaker 3: a celiant would melt the propane and.

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Speaker 2: Blow it up.

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Speaker 3: Well, he didn't use an a celerant that would do that,

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Speaker 3: and that's what saved me. There were other things that

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Speaker 3: he could have used as the commissary with which probably

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Speaker 3: able work, but fortunately he did not do that.

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Speaker 1: Well that's a close shave though, but I gathered that

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Speaker 1: you had a number of these kind of threats over

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Speaker 1: the years.

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Speaker 3: Yes, but I don't think any of them were serious

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Speaker 3: as that. And what my concern was that I think

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Speaker 3: in these organized crime cases, if they're going to do

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Speaker 3: some damage to the case, they're not going to assassinate

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Speaker 3: the prosecutor.

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Speaker 2: For the most part, They're going to go after witnesses.

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Speaker 3: What concerned me most was when we started doing the

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Speaker 3: crack cocaine cases, that somebody would say, somebody who had

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Speaker 3: a vendetta against us or me would say, here's you know,

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Speaker 3: eight ball crack and shoot that guy. That kind of

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Speaker 3: random type person was a concern. Most of the threats

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Speaker 3: from the organized crime people, I don't think there are

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Speaker 3: any of those materialized where we acts and were able

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Speaker 3: to take some action and do a prosecution.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that if you're an organized crime it's

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Speaker 1: just not worth the risk of taking on a federal

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Speaker 1: law enforcement person.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so, especially in West Virginia. I don't

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Speaker 3: think that any of those individuals would want to risk

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Speaker 3: the repercussions that would come from something of that nature.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that makes your career unique is

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Speaker 1: that you were a genuine pioneer in using the Rico statute.

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Speaker 1: First of all, for the rest of us, what is

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Speaker 1: a Rico statute.

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Speaker 3: Ricos statue was passed in the seventies and was designed

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Speaker 3: to combat organized crime. And basically what it does is

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Speaker 3: that permits you to put a group of different types

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Speaker 3: of individuals who are.

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Speaker 2: Maybe running a group or a formal group.

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Speaker 3: Such as maybe a corporation of business something like that,

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Speaker 3: put those all together, and if those individuals are committing

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Speaker 3: different types of crimes, which they're called predicats under the

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Speaker 3: Rico statute, and that establishes what is a pattern of

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Speaker 3: racketeering activity, you can put that all in one particular case.

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Speaker 3: You can put all the individuals in one case and

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Speaker 3: all the crimes in one case. So you have a bribery,

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Speaker 3: you have extortion, you have murder, all those crimes committed

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Speaker 3: and then comes under a Rico conspiracy. And there's also

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Speaker 3: a Rico substantive statute. All the individuals can be tied together,

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Speaker 3: and all the crimes could be tied together if they

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Speaker 3: established the pattern of racketeering activity before you'd have to

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Speaker 3: prosecute those like a murder case individually, a bribery case individually,

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Speaker 3: with individual defendants, and you could not do that effectively.

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Speaker 1: Rico in that sense, Was it an important tool for

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Speaker 1: you in going after organized crime?

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Speaker 3: Certainly it was the tool because it gave us the

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Speaker 3: statutory authority to pursue these groups and to combine them

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Speaker 3: all in one large prosecution.

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Speaker 1: Your book talks about a lot of interesting, very different prosecutions.

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Speaker 1: When you look back on it, which case is the

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Speaker 1: most challenging and what did you learn from it?

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Speaker 3: It's hard to single out a particular case. Of course,

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Speaker 3: Paul Hanke's case in Wheeling had a lot of different

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Speaker 3: tangents to it.

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Speaker 2: The hare Christna case was another one.

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Speaker 3: Those two prosecutions were probably the most challenging from an

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Speaker 3: investigative standpoint. And I think the Jamaican case is over

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Speaker 3: in Martinsburg and what was done when we cleaned all

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Speaker 3: that out of there and how the community went back

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Speaker 3: to being the nice sleeping community in the eastern Pananda,

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Speaker 3: West Virginia.

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Speaker 1: Emphasized that if you're a US attorney, it's really important

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Speaker 1: to collaborate with law enforcement, and the law enforcement really

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Speaker 1: plays sort of an essential role. Can you just talk

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Speaker 1: briefly about the role of law enforcement from the standpoint

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Speaker 1: of the US.

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Speaker 3: Attorney Yeah, one of the good things in the Reagan

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Speaker 3: administration and Attorney General Meese is what they did.

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Speaker 2: They asked us to form what is called law.

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Speaker 3: Enforcement coordinating committees and to bring in all the different

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Speaker 3: law enforcement agencies. Before that concept was being brought about.

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Speaker 3: I won't say this trust, but one of the examples

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Speaker 3: was nobody wanted to work with the IRS because the

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Speaker 3: IRS has all the red tape and stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: Nobody wanted to work with the FBI because.

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Speaker 3: If we gave them a case, the FBI would take

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Speaker 3: credit for it and things like that. We dispelled all

396
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Speaker 3: those rumors and stuff when we had the first grand jury.

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Speaker 3: We had the IRS working. Of course they would do

398
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Speaker 3: the financial part. We had the state police, and then

399
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Speaker 3: we had the federal investigative agencies doing the other types

400
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Speaker 3: of crimes. The first case we'd was the marijuana Moonshiner case,

401
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,439
Speaker 3: and it worked. We had support from the supervisors of

402
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Speaker 3: the RS, the SAC of the FBI, the superintendent of

403
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Speaker 3: the West Virginia State Police, and then some local law

404
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 3: enforcement and once they saw the concept that worked, they say,

405
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Speaker 3: this is great, we now can trust one another. We

406
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Speaker 3: dispelled all those rumors and everything, and we've been successful.

407
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Speaker 3: And the other thing the speaker was, when forfeitures came

408
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:30,040
Speaker 3: into play back in the seventies, there wasn't a lot

409
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Speaker 3: of forfeiture law. There was a federal what it's called

410
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 3: drug law continuing to throw an enterprise law which was

411
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:39,040
Speaker 3: similar to the Rico Statute, but limited drugs. It did

412
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Speaker 3: have a forfeiture provision and we used that in some

413
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Speaker 3: of the earlier cases. Then Congress passed a lot of

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Speaker 3: good forfeiture laws and money monitoring laws, and that permitted

415
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Speaker 3: us to do forfeitures. And of course those proceeds were

416
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 3: distributed to the agencies who worked in the case, so

417
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,960
Speaker 3: there was a little extra incentive from that aspect.

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Speaker 1: When you look at all of the efforts time we

419
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Speaker 1: put into trying to protect Americans from drug cartels and

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Speaker 1: what have you, and you look at the fact that

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Speaker 1: in the last couple of years we've had more than

422
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Speaker 1: twice as many young people die every year from things

423
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,399
Speaker 1: like fentanyl has died in the entire eight years of

424
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Speaker 1: the Vietnam War. From your perspective, with your extraordinary experience,

425
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Speaker 1: what do you think we have to do to defeat

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Speaker 1: drugs in America.

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Speaker 3: I think we have to form effective task forces. Once

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Speaker 3: this concept was made prominent, there were everybody the local.

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Speaker 2: Form of task force. Here.

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Speaker 3: What you need is a strong leader to put all

431
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Speaker 3: this together. You have to have one person making a decision.

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Speaker 3: And I always told my agents that you can tell

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Speaker 3: me anything you want, I'll consider it. But I got

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Speaker 3: one more vote than you do. And you've got to

435
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,480
Speaker 3: have that cooperation. If you don't have the cooperation, you're

436
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 3: not going to be successful. And I think we cite

437
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 3: a couple cases in the book there where that cooperation

438
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Speaker 3: was not there.

439
00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,040
Speaker 2: I think one of the gaudy case. And that's what

440
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Speaker 2: you need now.

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Speaker 3: In the international situation, there are other interests involved, I guess.

442
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Speaker 2: I mean we got into that a little.

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Speaker 3: Bit with prosecuting the Jamaicans. There were some politics involved

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Speaker 3: down in Jamaica, and the Department of State came in,

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Speaker 3: so on.

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Speaker 2: And so forth.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't know how, and you're much more

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00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,119
Speaker 3: experience than I am, how you remedy those types of conflicts.

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00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 3: You've got to take me a hard charger and you

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00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,560
Speaker 3: just got to keep going and knocking things down. That's

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00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,440
Speaker 3: what President Trump appears to be doing and hopefully he'll

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Speaker 3: apply that to the cartels and ag Bondi also, I think.

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Speaker 2: Is going to be very effective.

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Speaker 1: When you think about your experience and you see what's

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Speaker 1: happening today. Are there any kind of major changes you'd

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Speaker 1: like to see in the way law enforcement and US

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Speaker 1: attorneys work.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'd like to see more cooperation.

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Speaker 3: You know, we've got to have that cooperation between the

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00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 3: Justice Department and the local US attorneys. And I say

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00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 3: the prime example of that is Attorney General mess He

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00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 3: let the US attorneys do their jobs. We didn't get

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Speaker 3: a lot of inner afferent from a Department of Justice,

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00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,560
Speaker 3: and you can't have that oversight from the people sitting

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Speaker 3: in the apartment in DC try to second guest US

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Speaker 3: attorneys out there.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's going to common with saj Bondi.

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Speaker 3: She's got all the experience and she certainly has President

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Speaker 3: Trump's support behind her.

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Speaker 1: I think that's absolutely right. And Bondi is a very tough,

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00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: very smart person. Bill. I want to thank you for

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00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 1: joining me. Your new book, Justice Never Rests, A US

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00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: Attorney's battle against murderers, drug lords, mob kingpins, and colls,

474
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 1: is available now on Amazon and in bookstores everywhere. And

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00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:37,479
Speaker 1: we're going to feature a link to buy it on

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00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 1: our show page.

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00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 2: Thank you, I really appreciate that.

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00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,680
Speaker 1: Thank you. To my guest, William Klabash, you can get

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00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 1: a link to buy his new book, Justice Never Rests

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00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:53,840
Speaker 1: on our show page at neutraorld dot com. NEUTRALD is

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00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 1: produced by Gangwi three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer

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00:24:58,600 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: is Guernsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The artwork

483
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special thanks

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00:25:07,359 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: to the team at gingridh thwreet sixty. If you've been

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Speaker 1: a review so others can learn what it's all about.

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Speaker 1: Right now, listeners of newt World concerned for my three

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Speaker 1: freeweekly columns at ginglishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter, I'm

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Speaker 1: new Gingrich. This is newts World