WEBVTT - My "Nerves" Are Bad 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:11.559 Hi, Welcome to another episode of Anxiety Bites. I am 0:00:11.600 --> 0:00:16.079 your host Jen Kirkman. Today we will be talking to 0:00:16.280 --> 0:00:19.720 Dr Doctor a little. I mean, I was just going 0:00:19.720 --> 0:00:22.480 to say, I'm getting such great feedback about this podcast 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:25.320 and people are telling me you sound so professional, like, oh, 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:27.880 that must be my radio voice. And then I try 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:31.160 to say the word doctor and I say doctor Earl 0:00:32.240 --> 0:00:34.640 or doll or or whatever I just said. I'm keeping 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:38.760 it in. No, I am not drunk. I'm not on drugs. 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:42.960 I guess my mouth decided to humiliate me on Mike. 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:45.720 But I am a little out of sorts. I'm recording 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:49.080 this from a hotel room in Palm Springs. I don't 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:50.800 live in a hotel room in Palm Springs, so I'm 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:57.480 not at home. I'm sort of on a half vacation, um, 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.160 but working through it as well, so maybe that's what 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:03.600 it is. I'm a little out of sorts. But anyway, 0:01:03.640 --> 0:01:07.679 my guest today is Dr Angela Neil Barnett, and I'll 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:10.240 tell you more about her in a moment, and obviously 0:01:10.319 --> 0:01:13.520 we will then get to the interview. But thank you 0:01:13.600 --> 0:01:17.160 all for the great things you've been saying about this podcast. 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.760 I'm so glad that it's helping people. One of the 0:01:20.760 --> 0:01:23.800 biggest comments I get is people saying, you know, I 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:26.120 thought I knew everything there was to know about anxiety, 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:27.920 so I didn't think this podcast would be for me. 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.880 But I learned something in one of the episodes I 0:01:30.920 --> 0:01:34.080 listened to, And of course, as someone with anxiety, I think, 0:01:34.120 --> 0:01:36.760 why did you tell me that? Why are you telling 0:01:36.760 --> 0:01:40.040 me you weren't planning on listening to the podcast? And 0:01:40.280 --> 0:01:42.480 I know the point is they did listen and they 0:01:42.520 --> 0:01:44.880 liked it. But all I can think about is how 0:01:44.880 --> 0:01:48.600 many people aren't listening because they think they know everything 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:52.120 about anxiety. Well, they're not listening, so I don't even 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:55.560 know why I'm addressing them. But but maybe you're one 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:59.720 of those people, and I would say, you know, for me, 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.040 a person with anxiety, I also think, I don't think 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.040 I know it all, but I think I've heard it all. 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:07.960 I get it. I certainly if I were to learn 0:02:08.000 --> 0:02:09.880 nothing else of an anxiety, I think I could still 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:14.120 live a pretty good life managing my anxiety. But it's 0:02:14.160 --> 0:02:17.200 amazing how, first of all, I still learn new things 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:20.320 by doing this podcast and doing all of the research 0:02:20.400 --> 0:02:23.280 on my guests and their work and just talking to them. 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:26.520 But there's that other great phenomenon where you hear something 0:02:26.680 --> 0:02:30.360 for the tenth time and it finally hits you. It 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:32.840 hits you in a way that you actually relate to it. 0:02:33.120 --> 0:02:34.920 You know, we might hear things about anxiety all of 0:02:34.960 --> 0:02:37.720 the time and think, well, that's what some people have 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:40.359 when they have anxiety, but I don't. And you're not lying. 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:42.560 You're not in denial. But maybe your life changes, or 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:44.480 maybe you were in denial. I don't know, but this 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:46.400 one day you go kind I've heard that so many 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:49.680 times before, but today it really hit me. You know, 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:54.480 we're sometimes we just need something drilled into our skull 0:02:55.320 --> 0:02:58.400 more than ten times before we actually even hear it 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:00.440 at all. You could have heard something ten times and 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:02.680 had no idea and it sounds like the first time. 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:05.360 So that I'm just saying, stick with it, stick with 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.520 the podcast, because if you're anything like me, I just 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:12.080 like listening two people talk about a subject I'm fascinated with, 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:15.560 which is anxiety. I can't get enough. Anyway, thank you 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:17.919 for all of your wonderful comments. Listen, take a minute, 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:21.239 give it a five star review in Apple Podcasts write 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:23.200 a review. You can just hit five stars if you want. 0:03:23.240 --> 0:03:24.880 But if you want to write something, you can write 0:03:24.919 --> 0:03:28.359 something and it helps it move up the charts. Now, 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.720 I don't want bragging rights. Oh my god, it's number 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.440 sixty three in society and culture today. But when people 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:39.200 peruse podcasts, they go to the top two shows in 0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:42.080 the charts, and the more mind stays up there, the 0:03:42.120 --> 0:03:44.240 more people find it, the more people find it, the 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:46.720 more they're gonna let me do this podcast. Now, we 0:03:46.800 --> 0:03:49.840 do have forty six weeks total in a row of 0:03:49.880 --> 0:03:54.040 this podcast to do, so you got me through at 0:03:54.080 --> 0:03:56.600 least most of two as well. But I want to 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:58.880 do more. I want to keep doing this, so review 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:02.480 it up. If you to write a negative review, perhaps 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.520 you could not do that or write it in your diary. 0:04:05.800 --> 0:04:09.119 No need to make it public anyway. If you guys 0:04:09.160 --> 0:04:12.400 had any fun today, if you listen to music, Sometimes 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:16.160 when I'm anxious, I realized I've had too much talking 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:21.240 going on in my ears. I probably shouldn't say this 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:24.000 at the beginning of my podcast, which is talking. But 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:25.880 after you listen to this school, listen to some music. 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:27.359 But you know what I mean. I always have something 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:29.560 on in the background. I'm a real podcast junkie. So 0:04:29.760 --> 0:04:32.760 even if it's pleasant topics that I'm listening to, I'm 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:37.600 hearing voices. Talk doesn't really hit the soul like music does. 0:04:37.640 --> 0:04:41.440 And Dr Angela today talked about music, even just briefly, 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.800 but when she did, it just hit me right in 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.880 the gut and I went it just felt relaxing to 0:04:48.120 --> 0:04:51.560 think about music and how it gets into our soul 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:56.560 and how a huge part of our anxiety recovery is 0:04:56.600 --> 0:05:00.760 to enjoy our lives. But something that Dr Angelis said 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:04.280 in the early part of our interview is that when 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:08.920 people don't do the work on their anxiety because they 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:11.960 either don't know they have it, or they they don't 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:14.600 think of it as anxiety, or they just don't want 0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:16.800 to do the work on it, she says, they're not 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:20.560 doing the work to become the person they were meant 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:22.880 to be, and that that's a sad story. And when 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:24.520 she said that, it just it really hit me in 0:05:24.560 --> 0:05:28.760 the heart. It is so much more than just getting 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:30.840 rid of or trying to get rid of your anxiety. 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.040 You're trying to manage it. It's so much deeper than that. 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:38.440 It is about becoming the big, beautiful person that you 0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:41.520 were meant to be, and obviously you can do that 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:44.039 while having anxiety. Because I'm sure you've heard by now 0:05:44.040 --> 0:05:47.200 on this podcast anxiety is not something you get rid of, 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:48.880 like something you take out and put in the trash. 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:52.640 It's something you learn to live with and it doesn't 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:56.839 control you. And now with all of that extra freedom, 0:05:56.960 --> 0:05:58.960 you don't just stay the same. You get to become 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:00.880 the person you're meant to be. There's all this room 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.760 to grow. I know for sure that that happened in 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:06.360 my life. I just never really thought about it that 0:06:06.360 --> 0:06:10.000 way until she said it, or hadn't remembered that I 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:12.440 even went through that until she said it. And so 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:17.520 talking with Dr Angela was interesting because she really made 0:06:17.600 --> 0:06:22.239 clear the difference between anxiety and panic. You know, um, 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.280 people just sort of say anxiety attack and it's not 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:28.320 There's not really such a thing as an anxiety attack. 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:32.320 There's anxiety and then there are panic attacks. So she 0:06:32.400 --> 0:06:36.680 talks about that, and I haven't really heard anyone differentiate 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:39.479 between the two. But one of the through lines of 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:42.559 talking to Dr Angela is that the point of life 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:45.279 right is joy or one of the many benefits of 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:48.240 life could be joy. It's very hard to have joy 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:53.960 when you're busy having anxiety, covering your anxiety, using for 0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:57.440 lack of a better word, bad tools to handle your anxiety. 0:06:57.560 --> 0:06:59.120 It's not a lot of room for joy. It's not 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.200 a lot of time for joy. I mean, it's life 0:07:01.200 --> 0:07:05.200 and death to get this anxiety and panic managed. And 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:07.640 so I guess I invite you to think of working 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:09.880 on your anxiety is not just a way to simply 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:13.480 less than your anxiety. But now, what what do you 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:15.440 do with all that extra room? Right, It's like getting 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:18.200 rid of furniture in your house or something. Oh my god, 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:20.280 look at there's all this extra room to I don't know, 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:22.920 have a dance party or something. And going back to 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:24.960 what I said originally where people say, oh I thought 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:26.920 I knew all there is to know about anxiety, Well, 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:31.040 you know, listen, as a white woman, I didn't really 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:35.280 sit around thinking about race and anxiety in my earlier 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.240 days of having anxiety, when my world was really small 0:07:38.280 --> 0:07:39.800 and it was just all about me, me, me, and 0:07:39.800 --> 0:07:41.480 how I feel. And oh my god, I'm anxious and 0:07:41.480 --> 0:07:42.960 I can't go over this bridge, and I can't go 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:44.280 over there, and I can't go over here, and I 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.360 can't do this, and I can't do that, you know, 0:07:46.880 --> 0:07:51.280 But there are different experiences that different humans have based 0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:55.720 on gender, race, so many other things. Right, anxiety is 0:07:55.760 --> 0:08:00.840 pretty universal, but the way that maybe the gender that 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:03.880 you embody, or just the culture that you're in it 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.040 it may not be looked at the same way, and 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:12.000 you might have to overcome extra things beyond the anxiety 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:16.800 itself in order to get help know what's going on. 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:20.960 And so I think you'll find this interview very interesting 0:08:21.640 --> 0:08:23.880 because it helps you think, oh God, this is what 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:27.680 anxiety can be like for other people. I don't have 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:31.120 the same experience. This is so eye opening, but it's 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:36.000 also completely relatable because again, we all have other things 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:40.240 in life besides anxiety based on where we grew up, 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:45.840 how we grew up whatever, that inform how we recognize, 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:50.079 admit to, or handle our anxiety. And so I think 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:53.720 you'll learn a lot from Dr Angela Neil Barnett, who also, 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:55.600 by the way, is just a delight like she is, 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.760 She's just so she's just so joyful and funny that 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:02.160 it was just a pleasure to talk to her, Like 0:09:02.200 --> 0:09:04.880 I was just in instantly a better mood, you know. 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:06.800 After I talked to her again, I go back to 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.720 a comment someone made to me when I first started 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:12.080 this podcast. Well, I don't think all these pH ds 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:13.960 you have on are going to be all that entertaining. 0:09:14.080 --> 0:09:18.600 Oh you are wrong, You are wrong. So my guest today, 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:22.760 let's just get to it. Dr Angela Neil Barnett. She's 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:27.400 an American professor and child psychologist working at Kent State 0:09:27.600 --> 0:09:31.920 University in Kent, Ohio. She is a tenured professor at 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:35.680 Kent State University in the Department of Psychological Sciences. She 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:39.040 was the first African American woman in the department to 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.960 be tenured, and we talked about that concept in our interview, 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:47.679 about the pressures of being the first dot dot dot 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:51.680 and the only dot dot dot, whether it's you're the 0:09:51.679 --> 0:09:53.960 you're the only Asian person, the only black woman, the 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:59.200 only gay person, whatever, among a sea of white people 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.760 or sit people or street people, the extra anxiety you have. 0:10:04.640 --> 0:10:06.720 Well we'll get into it. She'll explain it better than me, 0:10:06.760 --> 0:10:08.840 but you know what I'm saying. She was the first 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:11.440 African American woman in this department to be tenured. As 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:15.400 I said in she was the recipient of the Anxiety 0:10:15.440 --> 0:10:20.320 and Depression Association of America's Gerlyn Ross Clinician Advocate Award. 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.880 She is the author of the book Soothe Your Nerves, 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:28.319 The Black Woman's Guide to Understanding and Overcoming Anxiety, Panic 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:32.200 and Fear, which deals with anxiety, panic and fear as 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:36.440 they are experienced by Black women. So there is so 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:38.720 much more. Of course, I will put everything in the 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:41.440 show notes, all the different ways that you can read 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:43.839 about Dr angeliniel Barnett, all the ways that you can 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.440 get her book. And now this is the way that 0:10:47.480 --> 0:10:49.800 you can get to hear her talk to me. Is 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:53.560 when I shut up and I say, I hope you 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:58.120 enjoyed this episode of Anxiety Bites with my guest, Dr 0:10:58.160 --> 0:11:03.480 angeliniel Barnett. Welcome to another episode of Anxiety Bites. Our 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:06.040 guest today, as you already know because I talked about 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:09.280 her in the intro, is Dr Angela Neil Barnett. Um, 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:11.640 thank you Dr Angela for being here with me today. 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:15.120 I'm so excited You're welcome. I'm excited to be here. 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:18.000 I have so many questions for you about you know, 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:20.160 a lot of this interview is really going off of 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.360 your book, Soothe Your Nerves, The Black Woman's Guide to 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:26.679 Understanding and Overcoming Anxiety, Panic, and fear, And I'd love 0:11:26.720 --> 0:11:29.120 to just jump in and start with where your book starts. 0:11:29.120 --> 0:11:32.320 You know, you mentioned that women are stopping you, you know, 0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:34.199 everywhere you go or at a certain point in your life. 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.920 They're stopping you at church, They're stopping you in the 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:40.360 hallways of things and saying, oh, dr, you know, my 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.880 nerves are bad, my nerves, my nerves, and they want 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:47.160 to talk to you. But as you say, they're right 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.040 to want to talk about it. But overcoming anxiety involves 0:11:50.559 --> 0:11:52.400 a daily plan of action. And I'm going to ask 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.520 you about that daily plan of action later. But I 0:11:55.600 --> 0:12:00.280 really love the opening anecdote that people are calling it 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:04.000 bad nerves. Yes, where does that come from? Is that 0:12:04.080 --> 0:12:06.560 a cultural thing? Is that a generational thing? Is it? 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:08.840 Is it lack of knowing about anxiety? Or is it 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.720 a denial tell me everything? Well, I think it's a 0:12:11.760 --> 0:12:15.000 cultural thing. Oh. You know, people are always saying, you know, 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.840 her nerves are bad, or you're getting all my last 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:23.960 good nerves. Uh. It's what we use in the black community, uh, 0:12:24.000 --> 0:12:27.600 instead of saying anxiety. And part of that is because 0:12:27.720 --> 0:12:32.800 we don't know, Uh, we don't hear people talking about 0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:39.520 anxiety or anxiety disorders, and the closest we might get is, oh, well, 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:43.480 he or she has issues. It's a little bit of 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:46.640 the nerves. But it sounds worse than anxiety. Though I'd 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.120 rather someone say I have anxiety than I have issues, 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:53.400 Like I couldn't mean anything. Oh well, you know, we're 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:56.560 not calling it what it is. And part of us 0:12:57.080 --> 0:13:01.520 healing and getting better is the first step is calling 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:03.720 it what it is. If you don't know what it is, 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:07.200 you don't know what to do to get better. Well, 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.720 I I heard you say somewhere that you know some 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.960 people would say, well, anxiety is a white person's issue. Yes, 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:18.959 And is that seen as like a pejorative in the 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.600 sense of like I don't want to be like that 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:24.480 or I can't claim it, Like what why is that 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:28.240 a thought? Well, I think it's it's because when people 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:32.320 think about I first started doing the work and talking 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:34.559 to where we go and we'll talk to groups of people, 0:13:34.600 --> 0:13:39.880 groups of women, groups in the community about anxiety, and 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:43.640 I would ask them about panic attacks, uh, and they 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:47.120 were they were adamant that black wood, black women, black 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.960 folks do not get this, that that it really is 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:56.040 a white person's disease. But then you'll hear people talk 0:13:56.080 --> 0:13:59.800 about well, I just got so flustered I could talk 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:05.640 or that, uh you'll see people with phobias, uh, and 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.160 that they are having a panic attack in front of you. 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:13.640 So I think it's that, um, And I think it 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:18.840 comes from several things. A One, how we conceptualize ourselves 0:14:18.840 --> 0:14:24.760 in the black community, particularly as being strong and anxiety 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:29.800 panic is seen as weak. And two I just think 0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:32.920 that people lay well. I know that people labeled it 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:37.640 as something else. So it's okay to be stressed, and 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:41.160 they'll see it as stressed, but they won't see it 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:47.280 as anxiety as as as panic, because that's weak and 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:52.040 Black people are not weak. That's a white person's disease. Yeah. 0:14:52.280 --> 0:14:56.560 You know it's interesting too because, um, my grandmother and 0:14:56.680 --> 0:15:00.480 mom also called things, and I think this is original, 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:05.240 called things their nerves, their hormones, And I don't know, 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:07.400 I think in my family there was a little bit 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.920 of a shame about it. Well, I think I think 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:15.160 that's probably true. I think that's probably true. I know 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:22.360 that probably the area that is lacking most in black communities, 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:28.479 other baby very affluent black communities, are very poor Black communities. 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:34.480 Is accurate information about mental health. We just don't give it, 0:15:35.040 --> 0:15:40.080 and so we continue to use these terms that don't 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:45.600 really fit. Who what what has happening? And the shame 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:50.440 that you refer to is so strong and uh in 0:15:50.520 --> 0:15:55.600 black cools and and the stigma is so it's so strong. 0:15:56.120 --> 0:16:01.120 People will do everything but and spend tons of money 0:16:01.200 --> 0:16:06.800 uh to do everything but what needs to happen, which 0:16:06.840 --> 0:16:10.440 is some form of therapy. You also say at the 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.080 beginning of your book that you know, when people come 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:15.040 up to you, why is this happening? Why are my 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.400 nerves this? Why? Why? Why? And you're saying, you know, 0:16:18.360 --> 0:16:22.320 why is the question that can cause more anxiety and fear, 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:26.920 And you're saying the key is to asking what. Yes. 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:29.720 The problem with with why is there's never an answer, 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:31.840 and you try, you know, and you're so busy trying 0:16:31.880 --> 0:16:34.000 to figure out why, so you then you start you 0:16:34.120 --> 0:16:37.000 increase your anxiety. It's a why is this happening to me? 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.800 So if I stop doing this and it will it 0:16:40.840 --> 0:16:43.600 will stop happening. And all you're doing is just making 0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:48.000 the anxiety worse than you're avoiding. Question is what is this? 0:16:48.640 --> 0:16:52.440 And what do I? What do I do about it? 0:16:52.720 --> 0:16:58.600 So many people spend their lives, chasing why that they 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:03.800 never do the world to become the person they were 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.399 meant to be. Uh, And that's uh, that's just a 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:11.919 sad story and a sad tale that we hear over 0:17:12.240 --> 0:17:15.800 and over and over again. I love that you put 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:17.919 it that way. The work to become you who you 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:19.879 were meant to be. Yeah, I think I think you 0:17:19.960 --> 0:17:24.760 will forget that. I mean, and once you learn what 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:28.040 it is and how to manage it, I mean, the 0:17:28.119 --> 0:17:34.240 sky's the limit for you. Oh, and you're happier, you're healthier. 0:17:34.320 --> 0:17:36.600 That doesn't mean that you might not have a setback, 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.720 but when you do, you actually know what it is 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:45.119 and you know what to do to bring yourself back. 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:48.000 And I think it's also what you just said, Jen, 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:53.800 in terms of knowing that, uh, you can become the 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:57.040 person you were meant to be, the person you want 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.920 to be so important, you don't have to be bad 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:04.080 by anxiety into you. It's so beautiful. And you know, 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.679 you're one of the only people I've heard that really 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.159 Um says, well, there's not really such a thing as 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:15.440 an anxiety attack. There's panic attacks. Um, anxiety is something 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:19.960 a little different. Tell us the difference between anxiety and panic. Okay, 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:25.280 So anxiety is this perception of the future threat. You 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:29.200 don't know what, you don't know when, you don't know where, 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:34.040 but you just know something is going to happen. And 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.320 so what it happens is you're in the state of 0:18:36.560 --> 0:18:41.200 highness the lurk almost all the time, you're just waiting 0:18:41.280 --> 0:18:46.960 for the other uh shoot the draw. Fear happens in 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:51.120 the presence of the immediate threat. And so in the book, 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:55.199 I talked about my mom's good friend who was afraid 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:59.159 of cats, and you know, literally we lived out in 0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:03.479 the country. He would come out. She would call ahead, Uh, 0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.000 there were six of us. My mother would gather all 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:10.240 of us and then saying, you're attacks, so she's coming 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:15.960 and um. When they see or they believe they're going 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:19.760 to see the thing that they're afraid of, then you 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:24.719 see them have the panic attack. And you see people 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.880 faced with this idea of if there is this perceived 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:35.199 threat lurking out there, who also have panic attacks. I 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.679 guess the good thing about calling it an anxiety attack 0:19:37.840 --> 0:19:41.119 is people now know, okay, but a're using anxiety at 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:45.120 least it's just not an anxiety attack. And so anxiety 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.400 in our body might feel differently as well. Right, anxiety 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:52.199 might feel more like worry and thoughts, and panic is 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.679 more physical. Panic would be more physical, you would have 0:19:55.720 --> 0:20:01.720 the physical reactions. But remember what why sustains a panic 0:20:01.760 --> 0:20:05.240 attack is the fact that we think we're going crazy, 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:10.320 We think we're going to die. Yeah, And what keeps 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:15.280 us anxious after all, what what keeps us fearful but 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:20.520 keeps us anxious is our minds. The mind is what's funny. 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:22.399 You know, when I first started getting help with my 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:25.159 panic attacks, someone said, well, no one's ever died of 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:27.520 a panic attack, and you know that is of no 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:30.760 comfort to someone with anxiety because I'm creative. So I went, well, 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:36.240 I'll be the first. Why not me? Reassurance comfort? Yeah, 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:42.960 reassurance doesn't work of anxiety. Uh, what works is actually 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:49.000 exposure to the things all that we fear, exposure to 0:20:49.160 --> 0:20:53.000 the things that make us anxious and realizing particularly the 0:20:53.080 --> 0:20:56.960 panic attacks, and a panic can only go so high 0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:00.480 and then it comes down. But both of us never 0:21:00.600 --> 0:21:04.679 let a panic attack get to its highest. Book we 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:07.600 either avoid or we we do all we work. Some 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.760 people run around when we do all sorts of things 0:21:11.240 --> 0:21:17.119 so that we never allow that sensation to dissipate to 0:21:17.200 --> 0:21:20.359 come down. I think I could be wrong, but I 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:22.600 think I have had my panic hit the highest it 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:25.520 can hit because something happens where it almost feels like 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:30.400 a spiritual experience where it gets to its height and 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:34.880 then your body releases the adrenaline and it just stops 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:38.199 and there's a wave of almost shaking it and it 0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:39.680 kind of comes down and it feels like there was 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:43.679 divine intervention and uh, it's it's a very interesting feeling. 0:21:43.680 --> 0:21:45.320 You can see in that moment. Oh that was all 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:51.280 chemicals this whole time. Well, our spiritual selves play a 0:21:51.480 --> 0:21:56.879 role in helping us an overcome anxiety. How how so 0:21:57.000 --> 0:21:59.920 I I believe that too. I I really do. It's 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:03.560 it's been something for me that helps with um, just 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:06.119 those moments when I feel like I'm going crazy and 0:22:06.119 --> 0:22:08.840 feel out of control. There's this a spiritual side that 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:11.720 I have to also put in my tool kid. I mean, 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:16.480 one of the buzzwords right now is mindfulness. Uh and 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:22.800 thanks Black prayer and our faith help us in knowing 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:27.960 that we can reclaim our laws. Having some kind of 0:22:28.040 --> 0:22:32.440 foundation is key for many people. Preven have many Black 0:22:32.480 --> 0:22:37.879 Americans in terms of saying okay, I can do, but 0:22:38.119 --> 0:22:42.760 my therapist disasked I can reach out for therapy in 0:22:43.000 --> 0:22:46.440 some of these cognitive behavioral things that we're being asked 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:49.359 to do. Some people said, okay, I was sent to 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:54.080 this therapist for a reason, and so what they're asking 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:57.760 me to do, even though I'm not quite so sure 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:01.760 about it, I am going to do. And the final 0:23:01.800 --> 0:23:05.800 thing is that our spirituality gives us faith and faith 0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:12.119 that we will manage and overcome this anxiety. And to 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:14.160 anyone listening, if you're if you don't have a faith, 0:23:14.200 --> 0:23:16.280 if you're not religious, you know, just think about how 0:23:16.320 --> 0:23:19.800 the sun rises and sets without your help, and you know, 0:23:19.880 --> 0:23:21.719 in the middle of a panic attack, you're you're not 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:24.600 in control, but there's many things you're not in control. 0:23:24.680 --> 0:23:26.800 You are in control of in terms of breathing and 0:23:26.840 --> 0:23:29.600 all that, but there's many things we're not in control of, 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:31.760 and it's it's a beautiful thing. You know. I'm glad 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:33.600 I don't have to rise the sun and set it 0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:38.280 because I would forget. You're glad that you know that 0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:43.360 there is an unseen hilp exactly, there's there's an unseen 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:46.639 force out there that you know in those moments you 0:23:46.640 --> 0:23:48.840 can choose to believe the universe is a friendly place 0:23:48.920 --> 0:23:51.760 that wants you to stop panicking. You know, it's it's 0:23:51.800 --> 0:23:54.240 really can bring it to tears sometimes if you're self 0:23:54.240 --> 0:23:56.520 soothing that way, it feels like you're parenting yourself in 0:23:56.520 --> 0:24:05.560 a way. Anxiety bites will continue. On the flip side 0:24:05.560 --> 0:24:18.280 of this message from our sponsors. You know, there's two 0:24:18.440 --> 0:24:23.000 interesting to me that I hadn't thought of, um stories 0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:26.480 in your book about black women in faith. So there's 0:24:26.480 --> 0:24:30.760 the prayer Warrior, which is really actually maybe a symptom 0:24:30.800 --> 0:24:33.280 of o c D. And then there's the you know, 0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:36.639 black women can choose to rely on faith, but if 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:39.560 you're using faith only and your anxiety is not getting better, 0:24:40.040 --> 0:24:42.200 then there's a sense of, oh, I guess I don't 0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:47.840 believe enough. Um, I'm not doing faith right. So can 0:24:47.840 --> 0:24:50.560 you talk about that that that it's is it seen 0:24:50.600 --> 0:24:53.800 as sort of um against God to to get help 0:24:53.840 --> 0:24:56.800 in away in some in some people's lives, yes, And 0:24:57.080 --> 0:25:01.280 in some people's lives they believe, uh that if you 0:25:01.440 --> 0:25:05.120 just pray hard enough, if you live right, you won't 0:25:05.119 --> 0:25:08.120 get anxious to either you won't get anxiety. I mean, 0:25:08.160 --> 0:25:10.520 I tell the story in the book. How you know. 0:25:10.560 --> 0:25:13.840 I was there and talk about anxiety and pretty much 0:25:13.880 --> 0:25:17.720 the minister's satatashm me. Uh. He said, you know the 0:25:18.480 --> 0:25:22.280 guys on Jesus, you won't mean those psychologies, you know. 0:25:24.359 --> 0:25:28.640 Oh my God, Okay, why do I do? Now? You know? 0:25:29.040 --> 0:25:32.359 What did you do? How did you redirect? I told 0:25:32.400 --> 0:25:34.800 the story of Jesus and the Garden of Cassimone. And 0:25:34.840 --> 0:25:36.879 if that's not a panic attack, I don't know what 0:25:37.000 --> 0:25:41.680 it is. Um. You know uh, I mean throughout the Bible, 0:25:42.280 --> 0:25:47.800 there are people who reach out for mental health health uh. 0:25:47.840 --> 0:25:52.320 And it's not that uh they're healed instantly. It's that 0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:56.320 there are people who are sent to them who pretty 0:25:56.359 --> 0:26:01.000 much just serve as therapists uh for them to help them, 0:26:01.640 --> 0:26:04.800 uh move on to the next level of their life. 0:26:05.320 --> 0:26:12.760 The belief is that somehow psychology is not biblical. Uh. 0:26:12.760 --> 0:26:15.679 And I'm not a I'm on a seminarian, but I 0:26:15.800 --> 0:26:20.720 know psychology when I read it, and I know that 0:26:20.840 --> 0:26:24.480 it is in the book of the of the Christian thing. 0:26:25.320 --> 0:26:31.679 There really is this of the stigma about mental health 0:26:32.280 --> 0:26:36.320 in the black community. And that's because first of all, 0:26:36.440 --> 0:26:39.720 we get miss diagnosed all time, uh. And that that's 0:26:39.760 --> 0:26:45.080 been across decades. And what happens is that Black Americans 0:26:45.160 --> 0:26:50.920 still today get the most severe diagnosis. So if you 0:26:51.040 --> 0:26:54.359 have a white American and a Black American and they're 0:26:54.400 --> 0:26:58.960 both having panic attacks, but the diagnosis that the white 0:26:58.960 --> 0:27:03.560 American gets is a lesser diagnosis than they'll get the 0:27:03.680 --> 0:27:07.880 panic all the having panic attacks, whereas the Black Americans 0:27:07.960 --> 0:27:14.879 will get uh panic disorder superimposed on other major disorder, 0:27:15.240 --> 0:27:19.320 and which may not be the case. Um So, so 0:27:19.359 --> 0:27:23.800 it's a stigma in the black community that mental health 0:27:23.960 --> 0:27:30.160 is crazy. So if you are relying on something other 0:27:30.440 --> 0:27:36.760 than fate and prayer, then you must be straight up crazy. 0:27:37.200 --> 0:27:41.560 It takes a lot to be crazy. An anxiety disorder 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:47.240 does not qualify in any way it's crazy. Well, you 0:27:47.280 --> 0:27:49.119 know that's so interesting you said that, because yeah, that 0:27:49.240 --> 0:27:51.760 is the number one thing that happens when I have 0:27:51.840 --> 0:27:54.879 panic attacks, and I've heard from other people, I feel 0:27:54.880 --> 0:27:58.920 like I'm going crazy. And it's like, well, thoughts are 0:27:58.960 --> 0:28:02.480 not at sans. Are you running through the street with 0:28:02.800 --> 0:28:07.359 a samurai sword? No, you know, are you naked showing 0:28:07.400 --> 0:28:09.680 up at the office. No, You're probably not crazy because 0:28:09.720 --> 0:28:13.879 you're just thinking, just thought, are you hearing voices that 0:28:13.920 --> 0:28:17.960 tell you to harm yourself? Are you having troubled distinguishing 0:28:18.720 --> 0:28:23.639 uh reality from fantasy? I mean those are the things. 0:28:23.680 --> 0:28:31.040 Those are severe mental illness, and anxiety is not severe mentals. 0:28:31.320 --> 0:28:38.600 And it's harmful to people because it's it extends the 0:28:38.800 --> 0:28:44.040 length of the anxiety and particularly for for for Black Americans, 0:28:44.680 --> 0:28:49.000 for Black women. What we know, but anxiety disorders are 0:28:49.040 --> 0:28:54.880 more chronic and the symptoms are more severe, and the 0:28:55.040 --> 0:29:00.960 stigma that keeps us from going to seek hill keeps 0:29:01.080 --> 0:29:06.240 us in bondage longer. If I was using faith terms. Yeah, well, 0:29:06.400 --> 0:29:09.680 tell us tell everyone about your research. Your a tenured 0:29:09.680 --> 0:29:14.240 professor at Kent State University in the Department of Psychological Sciences. Um, 0:29:14.400 --> 0:29:17.920 tell us about currently what your research is between anxiety 0:29:18.080 --> 0:29:20.760 and and it's it's mainly Black women, right, It's mainly 0:29:20.800 --> 0:29:23.960 Black women and girls. And I direct the Program for 0:29:24.120 --> 0:29:28.400 Research and Anxiety Disorders among African Americans. And the acronym 0:29:28.440 --> 0:29:31.720 for that is product. So we look at a couple 0:29:31.760 --> 0:29:35.160 of things. When things to look at aspects of black 0:29:35.240 --> 0:29:40.040 culture that may lead to the development of anxiety disorders. 0:29:40.280 --> 0:29:43.960 So we look at a phenomena called acting white, which 0:29:44.000 --> 0:29:45.760 has nothing to do with wanting to be white and 0:29:45.800 --> 0:29:48.240 everything to do with what does it mean to be black? 0:29:48.760 --> 0:29:52.440 So when you're accused of acting white, what happens is 0:29:52.440 --> 0:29:56.600 is that someone who is black thinks that your racial 0:29:56.640 --> 0:30:01.000 identity basically is not black enough. Uh. I could do 0:30:01.040 --> 0:30:05.400 a whole podcast on that. And so what happens is 0:30:05.440 --> 0:30:08.680 that people you know, just uh, what we now know 0:30:09.040 --> 0:30:12.680 is that this accusation of acting white conserve as a 0:30:12.760 --> 0:30:17.560 formal bullying and so of racial bullying, and so that 0:30:17.640 --> 0:30:21.160 we see it plays a role in the development of 0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:25.760 social anxiety. That's what most other people think or I 0:30:25.800 --> 0:30:29.640 think other people will think X. So that's part of 0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:32.720 what we do. Uh. The other part we do a 0:30:32.760 --> 0:30:37.480 lot of intervention work. We find that we have these 0:30:37.560 --> 0:30:43.240 women with anxiety disorders. And when we started, PTSD was 0:30:43.280 --> 0:30:47.600 and anxiety disorders now a separate disorder PTSD. I let 0:30:47.600 --> 0:30:50.400 you know that, Yes, in the DSN five it's a 0:30:50.440 --> 0:30:56.600 separate category. But what happens is as we go out 0:30:57.440 --> 0:31:02.400 and we teach people how to implement feeds interventions, we 0:31:02.600 --> 0:31:07.480 consistently here that people didn't know if there was a 0:31:07.640 --> 0:31:12.960 name for what they were experiencing. It was what they 0:31:13.080 --> 0:31:18.040 thought life was supposed to be. Can you imagine living 0:31:19.040 --> 0:31:22.440 and not knowing that that life wasn't supposed to be 0:31:22.560 --> 0:31:26.560 this way? But there was help available. And when we 0:31:26.600 --> 0:31:31.520 investigate further, what we find is we find intergenerational or 0:31:31.760 --> 0:31:38.320 multigenerational anxiety. So my mother had panic disorder, her mother 0:31:38.440 --> 0:31:42.280 had panic disorder, HERBA. So we get all of these 0:31:42.320 --> 0:31:46.960 people who think this is the way life supposed to be. 0:31:48.440 --> 0:31:52.760 Just the idea that it's not supposed to be this 0:31:52.960 --> 0:31:57.960 way is absolutely free for them. So that's what we do. 0:31:58.160 --> 0:32:02.120 We've been doing a lot of work with pregnant black mothers. 0:32:03.040 --> 0:32:07.160 The different mortality rate is awful for black moms. Uh. 0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:11.480 The maternal morbidity rate is even worse. And the head 0:32:11.520 --> 0:32:15.720 of Adula Agency locked on my door one day and said, 0:32:15.800 --> 0:32:19.360 everybody said, I should come talk to you, uh, because 0:32:19.840 --> 0:32:22.880 we're seeing all these mothers and to us, they look 0:32:22.960 --> 0:32:26.920 stressed and anxious, but the researchers keep telling us that 0:32:27.000 --> 0:32:31.120 they're not. But everybody said you could help us. And 0:32:31.200 --> 0:32:35.200 of course they were stressed and anxious, and even more 0:32:35.240 --> 0:32:40.760 of them had PTSD untreated. But the fact was, when 0:32:40.800 --> 0:32:46.560 you gave them the standard instruments that hadn't been normed 0:32:46.680 --> 0:32:52.560 or hadn't been developed for Black Americans, then they under 0:32:52.760 --> 0:32:56.720 recorded what was happening, got it. So they're answering in 0:32:56.760 --> 0:32:59.200 that way of this is just how life is. Yes, 0:32:59.480 --> 0:33:03.720 that's an exactly what was happy. So a lot of 0:33:03.880 --> 0:33:08.440 what we do is now that we know this, how 0:33:08.960 --> 0:33:16.440 we intervene in ways that make it accessible to as 0:33:16.600 --> 0:33:23.080 many people as possible, make it culturally competent so that 0:33:23.360 --> 0:33:27.720 people will come and make sure that it's effective, so 0:33:28.040 --> 0:33:31.000 you know, people get better. I'll tell you what we 0:33:31.080 --> 0:33:35.160 do run into is women who say to us, if 0:33:35.280 --> 0:33:40.960 I start thinking about this, and I have to think 0:33:41.000 --> 0:33:45.560 about everything else, and I just can't allow that to happen. 0:33:46.200 --> 0:33:48.600 So if I start thinking about my anxiety, I have 0:33:48.720 --> 0:33:51.160 to start thinking about what what would be everything else 0:33:51.240 --> 0:33:53.680 be in the case all the other strussures in my 0:33:53.840 --> 0:33:56.800 life on it, uh, you know, and then I can't 0:33:56.880 --> 0:34:00.240 keep being strong and I can't allow that. Well, I 0:34:00.280 --> 0:34:02.720 hear a lot of times is I gotta keep keeping 0:34:02.760 --> 0:34:05.560 on because I can't tell But how are you going 0:34:05.600 --> 0:34:08.239 to tell a black woman just don't be hyper vigilant 0:34:08.280 --> 0:34:10.120 when she's going to go into a store and someone's 0:34:10.120 --> 0:34:13.799 gonna follow her around the shoplifting or you know, how 0:34:13.880 --> 0:34:16.680 does that work in quote real life? I don't tell 0:34:16.719 --> 0:34:22.040 them that, we don't say that, but we build that in. 0:34:23.160 --> 0:34:27.120 We don't pretend that systemic racism doesn't exist. And the 0:34:27.200 --> 0:34:33.120 fact is is that for many Black Americans, uh, they 0:34:33.239 --> 0:34:36.040 live in two worlds. They will foot in two worlds. 0:34:36.080 --> 0:34:39.399 So they may be working in a white world, uh 0:34:39.440 --> 0:34:42.279 and then living in a black world. You know, they 0:34:42.280 --> 0:34:48.680 have to go eight hours negotiating a white world. And 0:34:48.719 --> 0:34:51.480 that's where we talk about mask wearing. It comes from 0:34:51.560 --> 0:34:54.400 Paul Laurence done of our phone. We wear the mask, 0:34:54.760 --> 0:34:58.560 you know, who are you at work versus who are 0:34:58.600 --> 0:35:02.600 you when you leave work? And that many Black Americans, 0:35:02.719 --> 0:35:07.880 men and women oftentimes are the only one. So we 0:35:07.920 --> 0:35:11.160 talked about the anxiety of the only because the only 0:35:11.200 --> 0:35:14.279 one in the department, you know, the only one in 0:35:14.320 --> 0:35:19.400 the building. Uh. And that creates a great deal of 0:35:19.440 --> 0:35:24.600 stress and anxiety, and learning how to deal with that 0:35:25.400 --> 0:35:29.160 is an important piece for for people. You have to 0:35:29.200 --> 0:35:33.560 address it, yeah, because it's reality. Well, you mentioned in 0:35:33.600 --> 0:35:36.879 your book to that for black women sometimes getting hired somewhere, 0:35:36.880 --> 0:35:38.640 it's like, oh a two for one, We've got two 0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:42.920 minority categories, you know, and you know there must be 0:35:43.040 --> 0:35:46.440 so much stress of everything I do, I'm representing all 0:35:46.480 --> 0:35:49.920 black people. Everything I do, I'm representing all women. And 0:35:50.600 --> 0:35:54.800 you know, it's insane to think of being the only 0:35:55.239 --> 0:35:58.240 person of color or only women, are only one in 0:35:58.239 --> 0:36:01.400 in a work environment where there's just something. You know, 0:36:02.800 --> 0:36:05.879 in my industry, there's a lot of jobs that are 0:36:05.880 --> 0:36:08.680 mainly white men, and being in the only one in 0:36:08.680 --> 0:36:10.319 a room for me would be like being the only 0:36:10.320 --> 0:36:11.759 woman or something. But being the only one in the 0:36:11.840 --> 0:36:15.880 room is weird because they're also comfortable because they have 0:36:16.000 --> 0:36:18.040 each other. They don't even know it. It's not conscious 0:36:18.120 --> 0:36:21.160 right for the white people that they're just it's just 0:36:21.320 --> 0:36:24.239 normal to them. And so whereas if you're the only one, 0:36:24.280 --> 0:36:26.759 you're constantly thinking, I can't say this, I can't say that, 0:36:26.800 --> 0:36:30.520 how will they see me? They have no idea the 0:36:30.520 --> 0:36:33.680 the negotiating going on in anyone else's head. No, they haven't, 0:36:33.719 --> 0:36:36.520 they have They have no idea. The story I tell 0:36:36.560 --> 0:36:40.480 us about one of my um colleagues who was a 0:36:40.480 --> 0:36:44.880 different department, different building, denying that I was in, and 0:36:45.360 --> 0:36:50.719 one day she just up and moved her office to 0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:56.040 the Department of Black Studies, and you never ever she 0:36:56.160 --> 0:37:01.200 just moved off, not not for feeling mean, but she 0:37:01.360 --> 0:37:06.040 just I cannot do this anymore. Yeah, and yet it 0:37:06.160 --> 0:37:10.560 only showed up in the building where she was tenured 0:37:10.880 --> 0:37:14.319 to teach your classes and then went back to an 0:37:14.480 --> 0:37:19.040 environment where she did not have to be. And only 0:37:19.680 --> 0:37:22.200 like you said in your book that you know this. 0:37:22.200 --> 0:37:25.440 This stuff can physically take a toll on people and 0:37:25.440 --> 0:37:29.200 and it's bad for productivity as well for the company. Yes, 0:37:29.440 --> 0:37:32.160 I'm looking on the number because it's gone up during 0:37:32.200 --> 0:37:37.000 the dual pandemics. But you know again, billions of dollars 0:37:37.080 --> 0:37:45.480 are lost each year by companies and corporations because of anxiety, 0:37:45.600 --> 0:37:48.359 uh and black anxiety. It can take some toll. I 0:37:48.360 --> 0:37:52.000 mean people get to the point where they don't even 0:37:52.120 --> 0:37:56.040 realize that they're assessing the scene before they know, before 0:37:56.040 --> 0:37:59.960 they becomes part of what you do. Yes, it's second 0:38:00.120 --> 0:38:05.400 nature as as and only well have you heard of 0:38:05.440 --> 0:38:08.720 any research or anything going on where companies are trying 0:38:08.760 --> 0:38:13.280 to change this? Are there any changes coming in this area? 0:38:13.640 --> 0:38:17.000 I think last summer or you know, the summer of 0:38:17.040 --> 0:38:23.040 twenty um people made it at least overtures to be back. 0:38:23.719 --> 0:38:26.319 But we found is that for some people it was 0:38:26.400 --> 0:38:29.920 just overtures and for some people, for some companies, it 0:38:30.040 --> 0:38:34.319 really was they were they were dedicated to doing this, 0:38:34.840 --> 0:38:37.520 but the reason that they had to do it was 0:38:37.600 --> 0:38:42.680 because their black employees just said no more, yeah and 0:38:43.040 --> 0:38:46.440 challenge them, uh and said you got to do something. 0:38:46.760 --> 0:38:51.839 You have to do something. Some people did things like 0:38:51.960 --> 0:38:58.400 form health equity centers within their corporations and companies. But 0:38:58.880 --> 0:39:03.160 I don't think we'll know the impact of those for 0:39:03.239 --> 0:39:06.080 another five years because we'll see are they making an 0:39:06.160 --> 0:39:10.719 infect So are you doing the work that will allow 0:39:10.880 --> 0:39:15.440 you to retain your black employees. I do a lot 0:39:15.480 --> 0:39:19.440 of work in corporations, but I am an academic. My 0:39:19.600 --> 0:39:23.440 university said we're going to hire, you know, a cohort 0:39:23.760 --> 0:39:29.560 of black faculty, and some department said, you can't make 0:39:29.680 --> 0:39:33.560 us higher black faculty. Oh my god. Well my answer 0:39:33.880 --> 0:39:36.919 would have been, that's correct, so therefore you don't need 0:39:37.000 --> 0:39:41.280 this position. You know, that would have been my answer. 0:39:41.560 --> 0:39:44.200 That's not the here today, we're given the best. You know, 0:39:44.320 --> 0:39:46.200 you don't got to hire anybody, but you know, these 0:39:46.200 --> 0:39:53.239 are black positions. Here's what's going to happen. Um. But 0:39:53.400 --> 0:39:56.640 you know, again, I mean, and part of that, part 0:39:56.640 --> 0:40:02.360 of that pushback comes from the lack of understanding and 0:40:02.840 --> 0:40:08.480 a belief about a black employee, whether they be faculty 0:40:08.760 --> 0:40:12.480 or or or they be lawyers, will they be accountants 0:40:12.600 --> 0:40:20.279 or whatever, that somehow that blackness makes them suspect or 0:40:20.440 --> 0:40:25.760 not as good at what they do. And that again 0:40:26.000 --> 0:40:33.400 knowing that contributes to anxiety of the development of anxiety. 0:40:33.440 --> 0:40:36.600 So some people never going in, but being in that 0:40:36.719 --> 0:40:42.120 situation day in, day out, for many people creates even 0:40:42.160 --> 0:40:46.240 if it's smideld, some form of anxiety, and I imagine 0:40:46.280 --> 0:40:48.799 that can lead to depression. Yeah, like if that kind 0:40:48.840 --> 0:40:51.480 of anxiety is on your shoulders, that that cannot just 0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:56.040 flow right into depression. Yes, depression sometimes looks different in 0:40:56.080 --> 0:40:59.640 Black Americans. And so one of the things will be 0:41:00.000 --> 0:41:03.160 whenever I see an angry black woman or somebody who 0:41:03.320 --> 0:41:06.200 characterized as an angry black woman, I want to know 0:41:06.200 --> 0:41:10.279 if I'm what I'm seeing is actually irritability, which is 0:41:10.320 --> 0:41:15.120 a formal depression, or if I'm seeing social anxiety. And 0:41:15.200 --> 0:41:21.640 so the anger is kind of a shield from people 0:41:22.040 --> 0:41:30.399 actually finding out that I'm actually anxious. We'll be right 0:41:30.440 --> 0:41:43.400 back and for you, you were the first African American 0:41:43.480 --> 0:41:46.480 tenured professor right at at Kent. Yes, I was the 0:41:46.560 --> 0:41:49.720 first African American. I'm full professor, which is the top 0:41:49.760 --> 0:41:54.279 of the line in professor gut uh. So I was 0:41:54.360 --> 0:41:57.880 the first full professor in my department. I was the 0:41:57.960 --> 0:42:02.760 first full professor in my college. And I remained that 0:42:02.840 --> 0:42:06.759 way for ten years until September. But at least in 0:42:06.840 --> 0:42:12.840 my college, they promoted people to full professor. And when 0:42:13.360 --> 0:42:17.920 the university celebrated it's one hundred year, that was the 0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:22.520 first year that they actually promoted any Black woman to 0:42:23.000 --> 0:42:27.040 full professor. Oh my god. So are there conflicted feelings 0:42:27.120 --> 0:42:29.880 in a way about that where it's like I do again, 0:42:30.000 --> 0:42:34.840 And because the Lane who was promoted to full professor 0:42:35.480 --> 0:42:39.520 fought too famail to get it and it was denied 0:42:39.600 --> 0:42:44.359 at twice and so again. And that's the story. I mean, 0:42:44.400 --> 0:42:48.960 her story is not unique. These are the stories of 0:42:49.080 --> 0:42:55.000 black women across the country. So its fuel. It gives 0:42:55.080 --> 0:42:58.560 us a sense of reality to some of the fear, 0:42:58.800 --> 0:43:03.000 some of the things that it that create anxiety for 0:43:03.120 --> 0:43:09.360 black women because we all know someone it happened too. Yeah, 0:43:09.520 --> 0:43:12.120 when we look at a Black American culture, if i'm 0:43:12.160 --> 0:43:16.759 its collective, you know, so that when um, when one 0:43:16.800 --> 0:43:20.160 of us succeeds, all of us succeeds. I mean, I 0:43:20.160 --> 0:43:22.839 think about the people who came before me, and now 0:43:22.880 --> 0:43:25.799 I'm at the age rundload. I came before a lot 0:43:25.840 --> 0:43:31.520 of people, but I think about that, and so I 0:43:31.520 --> 0:43:34.719 think about the people coming be looking before me and 0:43:34.760 --> 0:43:37.080 the people who are coming after me. And I think 0:43:37.320 --> 0:43:41.040 the way that many of us look at this is 0:43:41.080 --> 0:43:45.760 that we're paving the road so it's easier pro those 0:43:45.840 --> 0:43:50.479 who are coming behind us. And I think that's what 0:43:51.160 --> 0:43:56.720 tempers us from being resentful. We paved road. It should 0:43:56.920 --> 0:44:01.880 not be as hard for my children and my children's children, 0:44:01.960 --> 0:44:05.440 and my children's children should be easier. And that sense 0:44:05.480 --> 0:44:10.319 of collectivensm my biggest very. It plays a role in 0:44:10.520 --> 0:44:16.319 tempering uh many Black Americans anxiety. And you also talked 0:44:16.320 --> 0:44:18.440 about the difference between black and white anxiety and that 0:44:18.920 --> 0:44:24.000 white women do something called tend and be friend. Yeah, 0:44:24.360 --> 0:44:26.919 so you know, in the face of a stress, white 0:44:26.920 --> 0:44:30.360 women on tended be for that uh door. Neil Hrston 0:44:30.520 --> 0:44:33.120 said that black women were the mules in the world 0:44:33.640 --> 0:44:38.440 that are carry everyone's bird, you know, And so it's 0:44:38.480 --> 0:44:41.319 white women tend to be friend and then that's it, 0:44:41.440 --> 0:44:44.319 and black women tend to be friend, keep it all in, 0:44:44.719 --> 0:44:47.480 keep it all, keep it all. Yeah, So that that 0:44:47.520 --> 0:44:51.240 goes to that strong black woman, Yes, a strong black woman, 0:44:52.040 --> 0:44:54.920 um black women of a certain age level movie called 0:44:55.000 --> 0:44:58.200 Imitation of like have you e receive it? I haven't known. 0:44:58.600 --> 0:45:01.960 You have to watch it this even older version which 0:45:02.080 --> 0:45:04.040 is very very different than the I think that's one 0:45:04.040 --> 0:45:06.200 of the one that most people watched from the sixties, 0:45:06.280 --> 0:45:10.000 but the one is from the thirties is different. But 0:45:10.200 --> 0:45:15.239 what is what is he in each version is that 0:45:15.280 --> 0:45:19.799 there's says, there's this white woman and there is this uh, 0:45:20.560 --> 0:45:25.000 there is this black woman who is her maid basically 0:45:25.480 --> 0:45:29.320 or her cook or or and uh. The black woman 0:45:29.440 --> 0:45:34.479 has a daughter who can pass. And the daughter does 0:45:34.719 --> 0:45:37.600 does pass. She's very the daughter is very ashamed that 0:45:37.680 --> 0:45:40.839 her mother is black, and the daughter wants to be 0:45:41.680 --> 0:45:44.920 to be white and passes as white. And in the 0:45:44.960 --> 0:45:48.880 sixties version, the mother with the black mother gets sick 0:45:49.360 --> 0:45:51.680 and they have to find the daughter to come and 0:45:51.719 --> 0:45:54.120 be with her. So the black mother says two things 0:45:54.160 --> 0:45:56.360 that that stand out for black woman in this movie. 0:45:56.400 --> 0:45:58.879 One is what the black mother says, ji the day 0:45:58.960 --> 0:46:02.160 she gets married, at the day that she dies, or 0:46:02.239 --> 0:46:05.960 the two most important days. The woman's life. Okay, that 0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:09.000 was on her death bed, okay. And you know in 0:46:09.120 --> 0:46:11.719 most of even different scenes, he are saying, go to 0:46:11.800 --> 0:46:14.480 the light. We love you. You know, we know that 0:46:14.560 --> 0:46:18.360 God is waiting for you, etcetera, etcetera. This woman is 0:46:18.560 --> 0:46:21.800 dying and the white people around her bed are saying, 0:46:22.120 --> 0:46:25.640 you keep dieing, You can't die. How are we going 0:46:25.719 --> 0:46:31.880 to move forward without you? So you know, when you 0:46:31.960 --> 0:46:34.640 talk about a strong white woman, you when Kenny and 0:46:35.000 --> 0:46:38.640 die in peace, you know people are loving to want them, 0:46:38.719 --> 0:46:42.880 to help them, even on their death bed. And of 0:46:42.960 --> 0:46:46.080 course she has the most Gritish funeral, four white horses, 0:46:46.200 --> 0:46:49.480 character to glory and be Hailior Jackson seeing at her 0:46:49.520 --> 0:46:53.160 feeble she gets to heaven and a white woman needs help. 0:46:53.600 --> 0:46:58.440 That's the sequel. It's about being a strong black. I mean, 0:46:58.719 --> 0:47:02.800 she is the strong black woman. You know, they're getting 0:47:02.880 --> 0:47:05.720 ready to be evicted and she you know, she talks 0:47:05.800 --> 0:47:10.040 the milk man and the plandlord. I mean, she saves 0:47:10.440 --> 0:47:14.719 everyone in the movie, including the Noble Daughter, but she 0:47:14.960 --> 0:47:19.360 cannot save herself. You cannot save herself. And that's what 0:47:19.640 --> 0:47:25.320 happens with strong black women. We saved everybody, yeah, but 0:47:25.480 --> 0:47:28.520 we don't save ourselves. And so I don't think we 0:47:28.560 --> 0:47:31.839 should should throw out being strong black women. I think 0:47:31.880 --> 0:47:34.799 we should use the parts that are really good about 0:47:35.120 --> 0:47:39.680 doing that to help us as we take that journey 0:47:39.760 --> 0:47:42.520 to overcome exide a normalst of the time. A couple 0:47:42.560 --> 0:47:46.120 of things, Um, you talked about anxiety specific to black women. 0:47:46.200 --> 0:47:48.279 And I was fascinated with this because I've never heard 0:47:48.280 --> 0:47:51.560 anyone talk about this, which right, which writing? And I 0:47:52.239 --> 0:47:54.600 experienced sleep process and so I said, now's ever talked 0:47:54.600 --> 0:47:58.040 about this? But um, yeah, which writing, which I had 0:47:58.120 --> 0:48:00.759 never heard, Um, can we talk about sleep promise is 0:48:00.800 --> 0:48:05.000 an anxiety that's called witch writing? Yes, so uh, you know, 0:48:05.600 --> 0:48:09.000 people who were raised themself talk about wit writing, or 0:48:09.080 --> 0:48:10.920 some people might say, I hate out ahold of me. 0:48:11.680 --> 0:48:15.000 Um and and and what happens is just as you're 0:48:15.120 --> 0:48:17.759 falling and sleep or just as you're breaking up, your 0:48:17.800 --> 0:48:20.320 feel as if you can't move, uh, and then you 0:48:20.440 --> 0:48:24.920 have these kind of hypnogogic hallucinations, and of course you panic. 0:48:25.320 --> 0:48:30.040 And so what we know is that this occurs in 0:48:30.239 --> 0:48:34.279 all cultures. People say, oh, I've had that experience, Yeah, 0:48:34.480 --> 0:48:38.640 but what happens with Black Americans isn't recurred. So they 0:48:38.680 --> 0:48:44.000 have it over and over and over again, and it's 0:48:44.120 --> 0:48:47.839 almost akin to a nighttime panic at hitt and most 0:48:47.880 --> 0:48:54.160 people effects occur at night as well. So uh, it's 0:48:54.239 --> 0:49:01.800 just a form of anxiety but steeped in folklore, but 0:49:02.080 --> 0:49:06.879 is actually again akin to having a panic attack, which 0:49:06.960 --> 0:49:09.680 is right and you because what happens is it you've 0:49:09.719 --> 0:49:12.719 done somebody wrong, where you've done something, you've done wrong, 0:49:13.400 --> 0:49:15.959 and so you get you know, because you've done wrong, 0:49:16.239 --> 0:49:20.680 but which right until you do roight? Uh? And that's 0:49:20.719 --> 0:49:24.760 the folklore. Uh. And some people just dismissed it until 0:49:25.360 --> 0:49:29.200 we really began to look at it and say, hey, 0:49:29.480 --> 0:49:34.360 you know, this is related to anxiety. This is Parker anxiety. 0:49:35.080 --> 0:49:37.440 And it's interesting that anxiety happens more tonight because it's 0:49:38.080 --> 0:49:41.040 kind of our defenses are down a little bit. Anxiety 0:49:41.080 --> 0:49:42.880 it is time to get our attention. I don't know 0:49:42.920 --> 0:49:45.759 if anxieties trying to get our attention and a little 0:49:45.800 --> 0:49:50.719 bit of phrase it like that. Uh. But you know, 0:49:51.280 --> 0:49:55.160 one way to think about it is uh that that 0:49:55.280 --> 0:49:59.440 our defenses are down. So lastly, um, let's talk about 0:50:00.000 --> 0:50:03.800 only plans of actions. UM. Finding a therapist advice for 0:50:04.040 --> 0:50:07.520 loved ones who live with someone with anxiety. What should 0:50:07.560 --> 0:50:10.360 people put in their tool kit? How can their friends 0:50:10.400 --> 0:50:12.640 and family help them, how can they find a therapist? 0:50:12.680 --> 0:50:15.960 And what can they do every day? So first of all, 0:50:16.400 --> 0:50:18.120 I think, if you have to call it what it is, 0:50:18.600 --> 0:50:22.359 you have to call this what it is. Secondly, why 0:50:22.480 --> 0:50:24.920 tell them I go out and talk to people about 0:50:25.000 --> 0:50:29.359 finding a therapist? I tell them it's the same way 0:50:29.480 --> 0:50:31.960 that you find a hair dresser or a barber if 0:50:32.000 --> 0:50:34.919 you're black. You know that's great, Yeah, to think about 0:50:34.960 --> 0:50:38.400 it in those terms, and none of us would go 0:50:38.719 --> 0:50:41.600 to a therapist, would go to a hairdresser or barber 0:50:41.880 --> 0:50:45.239 who didn't know how to do black cap. You want 0:50:45.360 --> 0:50:50.400 to find a therapist who is culturally competent. Many of 0:50:50.520 --> 0:50:53.640 us want black therapists, but there aren't enough of us 0:50:53.719 --> 0:50:55.960 to go around. We just you know, they just aren't. It. 0:50:56.320 --> 0:51:00.960 It's like two of us our psychologist us, one person 0:51:01.040 --> 0:51:04.360 of us are psychiatrists, and four person of our social 0:51:04.440 --> 0:51:09.279 workers counselors. So no, none of us exists. So cultural competence, 0:51:09.560 --> 0:51:12.200 which means they know how to do black hair and 0:51:12.280 --> 0:51:15.400 they've actually done black hair but just didn't study it 0:51:15.440 --> 0:51:18.760 in school. They've done it, so they've had at least 0:51:18.840 --> 0:51:23.080 one client who is black. The other thing you want 0:51:23.160 --> 0:51:29.200 to understand is that the gold standard of treating anxiety 0:51:29.320 --> 0:51:34.920 and its disorders is cognitive behavioral therapy. So somebody who 0:51:35.000 --> 0:51:37.720 wants to do well, have you lay on a couch 0:51:38.400 --> 0:51:42.400 and psychoanalyze you. That's not the type of therapy that 0:51:42.520 --> 0:51:47.000 you want for anxiety disorders. You want Cargian behavioral, which 0:51:47.080 --> 0:51:51.880 is understanding the connection between your mind and body. And 0:51:51.960 --> 0:51:55.239 if you want a Christian counselor, then they also will 0:51:55.320 --> 0:51:59.960 be doing cognitive behavioral therapy as well. If they understand 0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:04.319 stand that. Okay, and Finns and family, you know, we're 0:52:04.360 --> 0:52:06.799 not going to reassure people reassure it doesn't work, as 0:52:06.800 --> 0:52:09.520 I said earlier. But what we do do is we 0:52:09.800 --> 0:52:15.879 support them in their journey of healing. And the other 0:52:16.040 --> 0:52:18.080 thing we do, but again we're doing against a certain 0:52:18.120 --> 0:52:21.680 types of social anxieties. That is that while we're supporting, 0:52:21.880 --> 0:52:26.480 we don't serve as that safe person anymore. We encourage 0:52:26.600 --> 0:52:31.160 them to go out and do the things their therapists 0:52:31.200 --> 0:52:34.840 has has told them, as has suggested that they do. 0:52:35.680 --> 0:52:38.120 But we don't run to the store for them because 0:52:38.120 --> 0:52:41.719 they're feeling a little anxious Uh, okay, Well, you know, 0:52:41.800 --> 0:52:44.920 I'll ride along with you, but you're going you're the 0:52:45.040 --> 0:52:47.319 one who goes in the store, not me. Or I'll 0:52:47.400 --> 0:52:51.279 go into the store with you. But those kinds of things. Uh. 0:52:51.520 --> 0:52:54.840 And then I think the way you start your morning 0:52:55.760 --> 0:53:00.799 affects the way your day goes. So most of us 0:53:01.040 --> 0:53:03.120 get up in the morning when we start scrolling through 0:53:03.160 --> 0:53:06.839 our phones. Yeah, don't do that. So you might want 0:53:06.960 --> 0:53:09.920 to get up in the morning. You may want to 0:53:10.040 --> 0:53:14.200 start out with music because what's playing music or program 0:53:14.440 --> 0:53:17.759 or whatever it is or smart device to play a 0:53:17.920 --> 0:53:21.279 song that has positive meaning for you? Uh. We all 0:53:21.320 --> 0:53:24.160 have all sorts of apps now for everything, so you 0:53:24.239 --> 0:53:27.839 can do ten minutes of yoga, or ten minutes of mindfulness, 0:53:28.000 --> 0:53:31.320 or or ten minutes of workout. We now know the 0:53:31.440 --> 0:53:35.160 research now tells us those things are very helpful in 0:53:35.440 --> 0:53:40.239 terms of anxious negative flos. I'm a big yoga fan 0:53:41.000 --> 0:53:44.319 because everythings you're gonna do in ten minutes. And then 0:53:44.480 --> 0:53:48.240 you know, it's almost become cliche because everybody is saying 0:53:48.360 --> 0:53:52.239 it will just give yourself grace. But I would say 0:53:52.320 --> 0:53:54.600 that for those of us who are black Americans, we 0:53:54.719 --> 0:53:57.200 have to think back to what a Wreatha tells us, 0:53:57.800 --> 0:54:04.920 and that grace leads us home. Home is the place 0:54:05.680 --> 0:54:10.719 where we are our best selves. And that, as we 0:54:10.960 --> 0:54:14.520 call it, what it is when we ask for help, 0:54:15.200 --> 0:54:19.880 when we follow through with that help from the standpoint 0:54:20.000 --> 0:54:27.680 of anxiety, we become our best selves. I love that, 0:54:27.760 --> 0:54:29.680 and it takes us back to where we began. That 0:54:29.840 --> 0:54:32.879 that's why we want to get better, right. And thank 0:54:32.920 --> 0:54:35.440 you for reminding me about music. It's so easy to 0:54:35.480 --> 0:54:39.520 start the day with talk. You know, podcasts, people talking 0:54:40.320 --> 0:54:44.240 music just cuts through. Yeah, what is the same? Music 0:54:44.440 --> 0:54:49.240 sumes the savage beasts, um, So all of those things 0:54:49.520 --> 0:54:54.239 are just so important. Thank you Dr Angela for for 0:54:54.320 --> 0:54:57.480 talking to me today. I hope everybody learned so much. 0:54:57.800 --> 0:55:01.759 And is there anything you'd to promote in addition to 0:55:01.880 --> 0:55:06.840 your book soothe your nerves? I always promote good mental health. 0:55:07.560 --> 0:55:12.560 And there's no sin and shame in asking for help. 0:55:13.160 --> 0:55:17.360 That the sin and shane comes, but we don't ask 0:55:17.480 --> 0:55:21.719 for help. We keep it in and it begins to 0:55:22.760 --> 0:55:28.560 really seep into our spirits. I love it. Thank you 0:55:28.640 --> 0:55:34.640 again for being here. Are you welcome? I would be 0:55:34.800 --> 0:55:38.279 loved my chat with Dr Angela as much as I did. 0:55:38.360 --> 0:55:41.360 And again, she says she is not here to promote 0:55:41.360 --> 0:55:45.319 anything but good mental health. But again, if you want 0:55:45.360 --> 0:55:48.680 to learn more about her, please visit all of the 0:55:48.760 --> 0:55:51.440 links in the show notes. Now, let's talk about some 0:55:51.560 --> 0:55:56.080 takeaways from this episode with Dr Angela. First of all, 0:55:56.719 --> 0:56:00.480 Dr Angelis says that when you refer to your anxiety 0:56:00.560 --> 0:56:04.560 as your nerves or as stress, you're really not on 0:56:04.719 --> 0:56:07.080 the road to healing and getting better. The first step 0:56:07.200 --> 0:56:10.440 is to call it what it is, anxiety, and if 0:56:10.520 --> 0:56:13.000 you don't know what it is, then you're not going 0:56:13.080 --> 0:56:17.000 to know what to do to get better. Anxiety and 0:56:17.160 --> 0:56:20.080 panic attacks they are two different things. Often people say 0:56:20.120 --> 0:56:23.960 anxiety attacks. There's really no such thing as an anxiety attack. 0:56:24.120 --> 0:56:28.680 There's anxiety and then there are panic attacks. Dr Angelis says, 0:56:28.760 --> 0:56:33.719 when asking questions about anxiety, do not ask why. The 0:56:33.840 --> 0:56:36.800 problem with that is that there's never an answer, and 0:56:36.840 --> 0:56:38.840 when you're trying to figure out something that there's no 0:56:38.960 --> 0:56:43.200 answer to, you're going to increase your anxiety. So enough 0:56:43.239 --> 0:56:45.400 with the why. The question you want to ask is 0:56:45.600 --> 0:56:49.239 what what is happening? And what am I going to 0:56:49.360 --> 0:56:53.359 do about it? Then you're on the road to getting help, 0:56:53.680 --> 0:56:58.480 healthier and healthier. That's right, everybody. Oh my god, why 0:56:58.520 --> 0:57:00.880 do I think I can speak for a living healthier 0:57:01.080 --> 0:57:06.759 and happier Anxiety defined is simply the perception of a 0:57:06.880 --> 0:57:09.359 future threat. You don't know what, you don't know when, 0:57:09.480 --> 0:57:12.160 and you don't know where, but you just know something 0:57:12.520 --> 0:57:15.720 is going to happen. It's like being in a constant 0:57:15.760 --> 0:57:18.920 state of waiting for the other shoe to drop again. 0:57:19.640 --> 0:57:21.880 The most common thing that people having a panic attack 0:57:21.960 --> 0:57:24.960 think is I'm going crazy. I'm crazy. This means I'm crazy. 0:57:26.320 --> 0:57:29.560 Dr Angela wants to remind you to ask yourself in 0:57:29.640 --> 0:57:33.680 those moments, am I having thoughts of seriously harming myself? 0:57:35.000 --> 0:57:40.000 Am I having trouble separating reality from fantasy? That is 0:57:40.080 --> 0:57:45.360 severe mental illness? But a panic attack and anxiety are 0:57:45.440 --> 0:57:49.360 not severe mental illnesses. Nobody has ever died of a 0:57:49.480 --> 0:57:53.520 panic attack. Faith and psychology do not have to be 0:57:55.200 --> 0:57:58.959 two separate things in the sense that you cannot pray 0:57:59.040 --> 0:58:01.440 your anxiety at way, and it does not mean you 0:58:01.520 --> 0:58:04.800 don't have enough faith if prayer isn't taking care of 0:58:04.960 --> 0:58:08.840 your anxiety. Dr Angela wants us to know that black 0:58:08.880 --> 0:58:14.720 Americans get misdiagnosed all of the time, compared to white Americans. 0:58:15.560 --> 0:58:18.400 A white American could get diagnosed with having anxiety or 0:58:18.440 --> 0:58:21.040 having a panic attack, whereas a Black American we'll get 0:58:21.080 --> 0:58:25.560 diagnosed with a panic disorder or something even bigger superimposed 0:58:25.640 --> 0:58:28.960 on some other major disorder, which may not be the case. 0:58:29.800 --> 0:58:32.960 The mythology of the strong black woman can cause a 0:58:33.080 --> 0:58:38.440 lot of anxiety, which can also lead to depression. Anxiety 0:58:38.520 --> 0:58:43.040 and panic is intergenerational, multigenerational. Your mother could have had 0:58:43.080 --> 0:58:46.440 panic disorder than your grandmother had panic disorder. So not 0:58:46.560 --> 0:58:49.080 only do we inherit it, but we can see by 0:58:49.200 --> 0:58:52.120 being raised. Oh, this is the way life is supposed 0:58:52.120 --> 0:58:55.000 to be. Dr Angela wants you to start your day 0:58:55.040 --> 0:58:58.080 with something positive that you can do right when you 0:58:58.160 --> 0:59:00.680 wake up before the anxiety has a ants to hit 0:59:00.960 --> 0:59:03.600 play a song that puts you in a positive mood. 0:59:04.080 --> 0:59:06.520 She says, as cliche as it sounds, do some yoga, 0:59:06.640 --> 0:59:10.640 do a workout, even if it's just ten minutes, it 0:59:10.760 --> 0:59:15.040 can help redirect the course of your day. And again, 0:59:15.120 --> 0:59:18.840 don't forget to give yourself a little bit of grace. 0:59:19.320 --> 0:59:22.480 Thank you again for listening to anxiety bites. Just remember 0:59:22.600 --> 0:59:30.720 anxiety bites, but you're in control. For more podcasts for 0:59:30.840 --> 0:59:33.920 my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 0:59:34.080 --> 0:59:36.080 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.