Speaker 1: Hi, Welcome to another episode of Anxiety Bites. I am
Speaker 1: your host Jen Kirkman. Today we will be talking to
Speaker 1: Dr Doctor a little. I mean, I was just going
Speaker 1: to say, I'm getting such great feedback about this podcast
Speaker 1: and people are telling me you sound so professional, like, oh,
Speaker 1: that must be my radio voice. And then I try
Speaker 1: to say the word doctor and I say doctor Earl
Speaker 1: or doll or or whatever I just said. I'm keeping
Speaker 1: it in. No, I am not drunk. I'm not on drugs.
Speaker 1: I guess my mouth decided to humiliate me on Mike.
Speaker 1: But I am a little out of sorts. I'm recording
Speaker 1: this from a hotel room in Palm Springs. I don't
Speaker 1: live in a hotel room in Palm Springs, so I'm
Speaker 1: not at home. I'm sort of on a half vacation, um,
Speaker 1: but working through it as well, so maybe that's what
Speaker 1: it is. I'm a little out of sorts. But anyway,
Speaker 1: my guest today is Dr Angela Neil Barnett, and I'll
Speaker 1: tell you more about her in a moment, and obviously
Speaker 1: we will then get to the interview. But thank you
Speaker 1: all for the great things you've been saying about this podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad that it's helping people. One of the
Speaker 1: biggest comments I get is people saying, you know, I
Speaker 1: thought I knew everything there was to know about anxiety,
Speaker 1: so I didn't think this podcast would be for me.
Speaker 1: But I learned something in one of the episodes I
Speaker 1: listened to, And of course, as someone with anxiety, I think,
Speaker 1: why did you tell me that? Why are you telling
Speaker 1: me you weren't planning on listening to the podcast? And
Speaker 1: I know the point is they did listen and they
Speaker 1: liked it. But all I can think about is how
Speaker 1: many people aren't listening because they think they know everything
Speaker 1: about anxiety. Well, they're not listening, so I don't even
Speaker 1: know why I'm addressing them. But but maybe you're one
Speaker 1: of those people, and I would say, you know, for me,
Speaker 1: a person with anxiety, I also think, I don't think
Speaker 1: I know it all, but I think I've heard it all.
Speaker 1: I get it. I certainly if I were to learn
Speaker 1: nothing else of an anxiety, I think I could still
Speaker 1: live a pretty good life managing my anxiety. But it's
Speaker 1: amazing how, first of all, I still learn new things
Speaker 1: by doing this podcast and doing all of the research
Speaker 1: on my guests and their work and just talking to them.
Speaker 1: But there's that other great phenomenon where you hear something
Speaker 1: for the tenth time and it finally hits you. It
Speaker 1: hits you in a way that you actually relate to it.
Speaker 1: You know, we might hear things about anxiety all of
Speaker 1: the time and think, well, that's what some people have
Speaker 1: when they have anxiety, but I don't. And you're not lying.
Speaker 1: You're not in denial. But maybe your life changes, or
Speaker 1: maybe you were in denial. I don't know, but this
Speaker 1: one day you go kind I've heard that so many
Speaker 1: times before, but today it really hit me. You know,
Speaker 1: we're sometimes we just need something drilled into our skull
Speaker 1: more than ten times before we actually even hear it
Speaker 1: at all. You could have heard something ten times and
Speaker 1: had no idea and it sounds like the first time.
Speaker 1: So that I'm just saying, stick with it, stick with
Speaker 1: the podcast, because if you're anything like me, I just
Speaker 1: like listening two people talk about a subject I'm fascinated with,
Speaker 1: which is anxiety. I can't get enough. Anyway, thank you
Speaker 1: for all of your wonderful comments. Listen, take a minute,
Speaker 1: give it a five star review in Apple Podcasts write
Speaker 1: a review. You can just hit five stars if you want.
Speaker 1: But if you want to write something, you can write
Speaker 1: something and it helps it move up the charts. Now,
Speaker 1: I don't want bragging rights. Oh my god, it's number
Speaker 1: sixty three in society and culture today. But when people
Speaker 1: peruse podcasts, they go to the top two shows in
Speaker 1: the charts, and the more mind stays up there, the
Speaker 1: more people find it, the more people find it, the
Speaker 1: more they're gonna let me do this podcast. Now, we
Speaker 1: do have forty six weeks total in a row of
Speaker 1: this podcast to do, so you got me through at
Speaker 1: least most of two as well. But I want to
Speaker 1: do more. I want to keep doing this, so review
Speaker 1: it up. If you to write a negative review, perhaps
Speaker 1: you could not do that or write it in your diary.
Speaker 1: No need to make it public anyway. If you guys
Speaker 1: had any fun today, if you listen to music, Sometimes
Speaker 1: when I'm anxious, I realized I've had too much talking
Speaker 1: going on in my ears. I probably shouldn't say this
Speaker 1: at the beginning of my podcast, which is talking. But
Speaker 1: after you listen to this school, listen to some music.
Speaker 1: But you know what I mean. I always have something
Speaker 1: on in the background. I'm a real podcast junkie. So
Speaker 1: even if it's pleasant topics that I'm listening to, I'm
Speaker 1: hearing voices. Talk doesn't really hit the soul like music does.
Speaker 1: And Dr Angela today talked about music, even just briefly,
Speaker 1: but when she did, it just hit me right in
Speaker 1: the gut and I went it just felt relaxing to
Speaker 1: think about music and how it gets into our soul
Speaker 1: and how a huge part of our anxiety recovery is
Speaker 1: to enjoy our lives. But something that Dr Angelis said
Speaker 1: in the early part of our interview is that when
Speaker 1: people don't do the work on their anxiety because they
Speaker 1: either don't know they have it, or they they don't
Speaker 1: think of it as anxiety, or they just don't want
Speaker 1: to do the work on it, she says, they're not
Speaker 1: doing the work to become the person they were meant
Speaker 1: to be, and that that's a sad story. And when
Speaker 1: she said that, it just it really hit me in
Speaker 1: the heart. It is so much more than just getting
Speaker 1: rid of or trying to get rid of your anxiety.
Speaker 1: You're trying to manage it. It's so much deeper than that.
Speaker 1: It is about becoming the big, beautiful person that you
Speaker 1: were meant to be, and obviously you can do that
Speaker 1: while having anxiety. Because I'm sure you've heard by now
Speaker 1: on this podcast anxiety is not something you get rid of,
Speaker 1: like something you take out and put in the trash.
Speaker 1: It's something you learn to live with and it doesn't
Speaker 1: control you. And now with all of that extra freedom,
Speaker 1: you don't just stay the same. You get to become
Speaker 1: the person you're meant to be. There's all this room
Speaker 1: to grow. I know for sure that that happened in
Speaker 1: my life. I just never really thought about it that
Speaker 1: way until she said it, or hadn't remembered that I
Speaker 1: even went through that until she said it. And so
Speaker 1: talking with Dr Angela was interesting because she really made
Speaker 1: clear the difference between anxiety and panic. You know, um,
Speaker 1: people just sort of say anxiety attack and it's not
Speaker 1: There's not really such a thing as an anxiety attack.
Speaker 1: There's anxiety and then there are panic attacks. So she
Speaker 1: talks about that, and I haven't really heard anyone differentiate
Speaker 1: between the two. But one of the through lines of
Speaker 1: talking to Dr Angela is that the point of life
Speaker 1: right is joy or one of the many benefits of
Speaker 1: life could be joy. It's very hard to have joy
Speaker 1: when you're busy having anxiety, covering your anxiety, using for
Speaker 1: lack of a better word, bad tools to handle your anxiety.
Speaker 1: It's not a lot of room for joy. It's not
Speaker 1: a lot of time for joy. I mean, it's life
Speaker 1: and death to get this anxiety and panic managed. And
Speaker 1: so I guess I invite you to think of working
Speaker 1: on your anxiety is not just a way to simply
Speaker 1: less than your anxiety. But now, what what do you
Speaker 1: do with all that extra room? Right, It's like getting
Speaker 1: rid of furniture in your house or something. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: look at there's all this extra room to I don't know,
Speaker 1: have a dance party or something. And going back to
Speaker 1: what I said originally where people say, oh I thought
Speaker 1: I knew all there is to know about anxiety, Well,
Speaker 1: you know, listen, as a white woman, I didn't really
Speaker 1: sit around thinking about race and anxiety in my earlier
Speaker 1: days of having anxiety, when my world was really small
Speaker 1: and it was just all about me, me, me, and
Speaker 1: how I feel. And oh my god, I'm anxious and
Speaker 1: I can't go over this bridge, and I can't go
Speaker 1: over there, and I can't go over here, and I
Speaker 1: can't do this, and I can't do that, you know,
Speaker 1: But there are different experiences that different humans have based
Speaker 1: on gender, race, so many other things. Right, anxiety is
Speaker 1: pretty universal, but the way that maybe the gender that
Speaker 1: you embody, or just the culture that you're in it
Speaker 1: it may not be looked at the same way, and
Speaker 1: you might have to overcome extra things beyond the anxiety
Speaker 1: itself in order to get help know what's going on.
Speaker 1: And so I think you'll find this interview very interesting
Speaker 1: because it helps you think, oh God, this is what
Speaker 1: anxiety can be like for other people. I don't have
Speaker 1: the same experience. This is so eye opening, but it's
Speaker 1: also completely relatable because again, we all have other things
Speaker 1: in life besides anxiety based on where we grew up,
Speaker 1: how we grew up whatever, that inform how we recognize,
Speaker 1: admit to, or handle our anxiety. And so I think
Speaker 1: you'll learn a lot from Dr Angela Neil Barnett, who also,
Speaker 1: by the way, is just a delight like she is,
Speaker 1: She's just so she's just so joyful and funny that
Speaker 1: it was just a pleasure to talk to her, Like
Speaker 1: I was just in instantly a better mood, you know.
Speaker 1: After I talked to her again, I go back to
Speaker 1: a comment someone made to me when I first started
Speaker 1: this podcast. Well, I don't think all these pH ds
Speaker 1: you have on are going to be all that entertaining.
Speaker 1: Oh you are wrong, You are wrong. So my guest today,
Speaker 1: let's just get to it. Dr Angela Neil Barnett. She's
Speaker 1: an American professor and child psychologist working at Kent State
Speaker 1: University in Kent, Ohio. She is a tenured professor at
Speaker 1: Kent State University in the Department of Psychological Sciences. She
Speaker 1: was the first African American woman in the department to
Speaker 1: be tenured, and we talked about that concept in our interview,
Speaker 1: about the pressures of being the first dot dot dot
Speaker 1: and the only dot dot dot, whether it's you're the
Speaker 1: you're the only Asian person, the only black woman, the
Speaker 1: only gay person, whatever, among a sea of white people
Speaker 1: or sit people or street people, the extra anxiety you have.
Speaker 1: Well we'll get into it. She'll explain it better than me,
Speaker 1: but you know what I'm saying. She was the first
Speaker 1: African American woman in this department to be tenured. As
Speaker 1: I said in she was the recipient of the Anxiety
Speaker 1: and Depression Association of America's Gerlyn Ross Clinician Advocate Award.
Speaker 1: She is the author of the book Soothe Your Nerves,
Speaker 1: The Black Woman's Guide to Understanding and Overcoming Anxiety, Panic
Speaker 1: and Fear, which deals with anxiety, panic and fear as
Speaker 1: they are experienced by Black women. So there is so
Speaker 1: much more. Of course, I will put everything in the
Speaker 1: show notes, all the different ways that you can read
Speaker 1: about Dr angeliniel Barnett, all the ways that you can
Speaker 1: get her book. And now this is the way that
Speaker 1: you can get to hear her talk to me. Is
Speaker 1: when I shut up and I say, I hope you
Speaker 1: enjoyed this episode of Anxiety Bites with my guest, Dr
Speaker 1: angeliniel Barnett. Welcome to another episode of Anxiety Bites. Our
Speaker 1: guest today, as you already know because I talked about
Speaker 1: her in the intro, is Dr Angela Neil Barnett. Um,
Speaker 1: thank you Dr Angela for being here with me today.
Speaker 1: I'm so excited You're welcome. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 1: I have so many questions for you about you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of this interview is really going off of
Speaker 1: your book, Soothe Your Nerves, The Black Woman's Guide to
Speaker 1: Understanding and Overcoming Anxiety, Panic, and fear, And I'd love
Speaker 1: to just jump in and start with where your book starts.
Speaker 1: You know, you mentioned that women are stopping you, you know,
Speaker 1: everywhere you go or at a certain point in your life.
Speaker 1: They're stopping you at church, They're stopping you in the
Speaker 1: hallways of things and saying, oh, dr, you know, my
Speaker 1: nerves are bad, my nerves, my nerves, and they want
Speaker 1: to talk to you. But as you say, they're right
Speaker 1: to want to talk about it. But overcoming anxiety involves
Speaker 1: a daily plan of action. And I'm going to ask
Speaker 1: you about that daily plan of action later. But I
Speaker 1: really love the opening anecdote that people are calling it
Speaker 1: bad nerves. Yes, where does that come from? Is that
Speaker 1: a cultural thing? Is that a generational thing? Is it?
Speaker 1: Is it lack of knowing about anxiety? Or is it
Speaker 1: a denial tell me everything? Well, I think it's a
Speaker 1: cultural thing. Oh. You know, people are always saying, you know,
Speaker 1: her nerves are bad, or you're getting all my last
Speaker 1: good nerves. Uh. It's what we use in the black community, uh,
Speaker 1: instead of saying anxiety. And part of that is because
Speaker 1: we don't know, Uh, we don't hear people talking about
Speaker 1: anxiety or anxiety disorders, and the closest we might get is, oh, well,
Speaker 1: he or she has issues. It's a little bit of
Speaker 1: the nerves. But it sounds worse than anxiety. Though I'd
Speaker 1: rather someone say I have anxiety than I have issues,
Speaker 1: Like I couldn't mean anything. Oh well, you know, we're
Speaker 1: not calling it what it is. And part of us
Speaker 1: healing and getting better is the first step is calling
Speaker 1: it what it is. If you don't know what it is,
Speaker 1: you don't know what to do to get better. Well,
Speaker 1: I I heard you say somewhere that you know some
Speaker 1: people would say, well, anxiety is a white person's issue. Yes,
Speaker 1: And is that seen as like a pejorative in the
Speaker 1: sense of like I don't want to be like that
Speaker 1: or I can't claim it, Like what why is that
Speaker 1: a thought? Well, I think it's it's because when people
Speaker 1: think about I first started doing the work and talking
Speaker 1: to where we go and we'll talk to groups of people,
Speaker 1: groups of women, groups in the community about anxiety, and
Speaker 1: I would ask them about panic attacks, uh, and they
Speaker 1: were they were adamant that black wood, black women, black
Speaker 1: folks do not get this, that that it really is
Speaker 1: a white person's disease. But then you'll hear people talk
Speaker 1: about well, I just got so flustered I could talk
Speaker 1: or that, uh you'll see people with phobias, uh, and
Speaker 1: that they are having a panic attack in front of you.
Speaker 1: So I think it's that, um, And I think it
Speaker 1: comes from several things. A One, how we conceptualize ourselves
Speaker 1: in the black community, particularly as being strong and anxiety
Speaker 1: panic is seen as weak. And two I just think
Speaker 1: that people lay well. I know that people labeled it
Speaker 1: as something else. So it's okay to be stressed, and
Speaker 1: they'll see it as stressed, but they won't see it
Speaker 1: as anxiety as as as panic, because that's weak and
Speaker 1: Black people are not weak. That's a white person's disease. Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know it's interesting too because, um, my grandmother and
Speaker 1: mom also called things, and I think this is original,
Speaker 1: called things their nerves, their hormones, And I don't know,
Speaker 1: I think in my family there was a little bit
Speaker 1: of a shame about it. Well, I think I think
Speaker 1: that's probably true. I think that's probably true. I know
Speaker 1: that probably the area that is lacking most in black communities,
Speaker 1: other baby very affluent black communities, are very poor Black communities.
Speaker 1: Is accurate information about mental health. We just don't give it,
Speaker 1: and so we continue to use these terms that don't
Speaker 1: really fit. Who what what has happening? And the shame
Speaker 1: that you refer to is so strong and uh in
Speaker 1: black cools and and the stigma is so it's so strong.
Speaker 1: People will do everything but and spend tons of money
Speaker 1: uh to do everything but what needs to happen, which
Speaker 1: is some form of therapy. You also say at the
Speaker 1: beginning of your book that you know, when people come
Speaker 1: up to you, why is this happening? Why are my
Speaker 1: nerves this? Why? Why? Why? And you're saying, you know,
Speaker 1: why is the question that can cause more anxiety and fear,
Speaker 1: And you're saying the key is to asking what. Yes.
Speaker 1: The problem with with why is there's never an answer,
Speaker 1: and you try, you know, and you're so busy trying
Speaker 1: to figure out why, so you then you start you
Speaker 1: increase your anxiety. It's a why is this happening to me?
Speaker 1: So if I stop doing this and it will it
Speaker 1: will stop happening. And all you're doing is just making
Speaker 1: the anxiety worse than you're avoiding. Question is what is this?
Speaker 1: And what do I? What do I do about it?
Speaker 1: So many people spend their lives, chasing why that they
Speaker 1: never do the world to become the person they were
Speaker 1: meant to be. Uh, And that's uh, that's just a
Speaker 1: sad story and a sad tale that we hear over
Speaker 1: and over and over again. I love that you put
Speaker 1: it that way. The work to become you who you
Speaker 1: were meant to be. Yeah, I think I think you
Speaker 1: will forget that. I mean, and once you learn what
Speaker 1: it is and how to manage it, I mean, the
Speaker 1: sky's the limit for you. Oh, and you're happier, you're healthier.
Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that you might not have a setback,
Speaker 1: but when you do, you actually know what it is
Speaker 1: and you know what to do to bring yourself back.
Speaker 1: And I think it's also what you just said, Jen,
Speaker 1: in terms of knowing that, uh, you can become the
Speaker 1: person you were meant to be, the person you want
Speaker 1: to be so important, you don't have to be bad
Speaker 1: by anxiety into you. It's so beautiful. And you know,
Speaker 1: you're one of the only people I've heard that really
Speaker 1: Um says, well, there's not really such a thing as
Speaker 1: an anxiety attack. There's panic attacks. Um, anxiety is something
Speaker 1: a little different. Tell us the difference between anxiety and panic. Okay,
Speaker 1: So anxiety is this perception of the future threat. You
Speaker 1: don't know what, you don't know when, you don't know where,
Speaker 1: but you just know something is going to happen. And
Speaker 1: so what it happens is you're in the state of
Speaker 1: highness the lurk almost all the time, you're just waiting
Speaker 1: for the other uh shoot the draw. Fear happens in
Speaker 1: the presence of the immediate threat. And so in the book,
Speaker 1: I talked about my mom's good friend who was afraid
Speaker 1: of cats, and you know, literally we lived out in
Speaker 1: the country. He would come out. She would call ahead, Uh,
Speaker 1: there were six of us. My mother would gather all
Speaker 1: of us and then saying, you're attacks, so she's coming
Speaker 1: and um. When they see or they believe they're going
Speaker 1: to see the thing that they're afraid of, then you
Speaker 1: see them have the panic attack. And you see people
Speaker 1: faced with this idea of if there is this perceived
Speaker 1: threat lurking out there, who also have panic attacks. I
Speaker 1: guess the good thing about calling it an anxiety attack
Speaker 1: is people now know, okay, but a're using anxiety at
Speaker 1: least it's just not an anxiety attack. And so anxiety
Speaker 1: in our body might feel differently as well. Right, anxiety
Speaker 1: might feel more like worry and thoughts, and panic is
Speaker 1: more physical. Panic would be more physical, you would have
Speaker 1: the physical reactions. But remember what why sustains a panic
Speaker 1: attack is the fact that we think we're going crazy,
Speaker 1: We think we're going to die. Yeah, And what keeps
Speaker 1: us anxious after all, what what keeps us fearful but
Speaker 1: keeps us anxious is our minds. The mind is what's funny.
Speaker 1: You know, when I first started getting help with my
Speaker 1: panic attacks, someone said, well, no one's ever died of
Speaker 1: a panic attack, and you know that is of no
Speaker 1: comfort to someone with anxiety because I'm creative. So I went, well,
Speaker 1: I'll be the first. Why not me? Reassurance comfort? Yeah,
Speaker 1: reassurance doesn't work of anxiety. Uh, what works is actually
Speaker 1: exposure to the things all that we fear, exposure to
Speaker 1: the things that make us anxious and realizing particularly the
Speaker 1: panic attacks, and a panic can only go so high
Speaker 1: and then it comes down. But both of us never
Speaker 1: let a panic attack get to its highest. Book we
Speaker 1: either avoid or we we do all we work. Some
Speaker 1: people run around when we do all sorts of things
Speaker 1: so that we never allow that sensation to dissipate to
Speaker 1: come down. I think I could be wrong, but I
Speaker 1: think I have had my panic hit the highest it
Speaker 1: can hit because something happens where it almost feels like
Speaker 1: a spiritual experience where it gets to its height and
Speaker 1: then your body releases the adrenaline and it just stops
Speaker 1: and there's a wave of almost shaking it and it
Speaker 1: kind of comes down and it feels like there was
Speaker 1: divine intervention and uh, it's it's a very interesting feeling.
Speaker 1: You can see in that moment. Oh that was all
Speaker 1: chemicals this whole time. Well, our spiritual selves play a
Speaker 1: role in helping us an overcome anxiety. How how so
Speaker 1: I I believe that too. I I really do. It's
Speaker 1: it's been something for me that helps with um, just
Speaker 1: those moments when I feel like I'm going crazy and
Speaker 1: feel out of control. There's this a spiritual side that
Speaker 1: I have to also put in my tool kid. I mean,
Speaker 1: one of the buzzwords right now is mindfulness. Uh and
Speaker 1: thanks Black prayer and our faith help us in knowing
Speaker 1: that we can reclaim our laws. Having some kind of
Speaker 1: foundation is key for many people. Preven have many Black
Speaker 1: Americans in terms of saying okay, I can do, but
Speaker 1: my therapist disasked I can reach out for therapy in
Speaker 1: some of these cognitive behavioral things that we're being asked
Speaker 1: to do. Some people said, okay, I was sent to
Speaker 1: this therapist for a reason, and so what they're asking
Speaker 1: me to do, even though I'm not quite so sure
Speaker 1: about it, I am going to do. And the final
Speaker 1: thing is that our spirituality gives us faith and faith
Speaker 1: that we will manage and overcome this anxiety. And to
Speaker 1: anyone listening, if you're if you don't have a faith,
Speaker 1: if you're not religious, you know, just think about how
Speaker 1: the sun rises and sets without your help, and you know,
Speaker 1: in the middle of a panic attack, you're you're not
Speaker 1: in control, but there's many things you're not in control.
Speaker 1: You are in control of in terms of breathing and
Speaker 1: all that, but there's many things we're not in control of,
Speaker 1: and it's it's a beautiful thing. You know. I'm glad
Speaker 1: I don't have to rise the sun and set it
Speaker 1: because I would forget. You're glad that you know that
Speaker 1: there is an unseen hilp exactly, there's there's an unseen
Speaker 1: force out there that you know in those moments you
Speaker 1: can choose to believe the universe is a friendly place
Speaker 1: that wants you to stop panicking. You know, it's it's
Speaker 1: really can bring it to tears sometimes if you're self
Speaker 1: soothing that way, it feels like you're parenting yourself in
Speaker 1: a way. Anxiety bites will continue. On the flip side
Speaker 1: of this message from our sponsors. You know, there's two
Speaker 1: interesting to me that I hadn't thought of, um stories
Speaker 1: in your book about black women in faith. So there's
Speaker 1: the prayer Warrior, which is really actually maybe a symptom
Speaker 1: of o c D. And then there's the you know,
Speaker 1: black women can choose to rely on faith, but if
Speaker 1: you're using faith only and your anxiety is not getting better,
Speaker 1: then there's a sense of, oh, I guess I don't
Speaker 1: believe enough. Um, I'm not doing faith right. So can
Speaker 1: you talk about that that that it's is it seen
Speaker 1: as sort of um against God to to get help
Speaker 1: in away in some in some people's lives, yes, And
Speaker 1: in some people's lives they believe, uh that if you
Speaker 1: just pray hard enough, if you live right, you won't
Speaker 1: get anxious to either you won't get anxiety. I mean,
Speaker 1: I tell the story in the book. How you know.
Speaker 1: I was there and talk about anxiety and pretty much
Speaker 1: the minister's satatashm me. Uh. He said, you know the
Speaker 1: guys on Jesus, you won't mean those psychologies, you know.
Speaker 1: Oh my God, Okay, why do I do? Now? You know?
Speaker 1: What did you do? How did you redirect? I told
Speaker 1: the story of Jesus and the Garden of Cassimone. And
Speaker 1: if that's not a panic attack, I don't know what
Speaker 1: it is. Um. You know uh, I mean throughout the Bible,
Speaker 1: there are people who reach out for mental health health uh.
Speaker 1: And it's not that uh they're healed instantly. It's that
Speaker 1: there are people who are sent to them who pretty
Speaker 1: much just serve as therapists uh for them to help them,
Speaker 1: uh move on to the next level of their life.
Speaker 1: The belief is that somehow psychology is not biblical. Uh.
Speaker 1: And I'm not a I'm on a seminarian, but I
Speaker 1: know psychology when I read it, and I know that
Speaker 1: it is in the book of the of the Christian thing.
Speaker 1: There really is this of the stigma about mental health
Speaker 1: in the black community. And that's because first of all,
Speaker 1: we get miss diagnosed all time, uh. And that that's
Speaker 1: been across decades. And what happens is that Black Americans
Speaker 1: still today get the most severe diagnosis. So if you
Speaker 1: have a white American and a Black American and they're
Speaker 1: both having panic attacks, but the diagnosis that the white
Speaker 1: American gets is a lesser diagnosis than they'll get the
Speaker 1: panic all the having panic attacks, whereas the Black Americans
Speaker 1: will get uh panic disorder superimposed on other major disorder,
Speaker 1: and which may not be the case. Um So, so
Speaker 1: it's a stigma in the black community that mental health
Speaker 1: is crazy. So if you are relying on something other
Speaker 1: than fate and prayer, then you must be straight up crazy.
Speaker 1: It takes a lot to be crazy. An anxiety disorder
Speaker 1: does not qualify in any way it's crazy. Well, you
Speaker 1: know that's so interesting you said that, because yeah, that
Speaker 1: is the number one thing that happens when I have
Speaker 1: panic attacks, and I've heard from other people, I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm going crazy. And it's like, well, thoughts are
Speaker 1: not at sans. Are you running through the street with
Speaker 1: a samurai sword? No, you know, are you naked showing
Speaker 1: up at the office. No, You're probably not crazy because
Speaker 1: you're just thinking, just thought, are you hearing voices that
Speaker 1: tell you to harm yourself? Are you having troubled distinguishing
Speaker 1: uh reality from fantasy? I mean those are the things.
Speaker 1: Those are severe mental illness, and anxiety is not severe mentals.
Speaker 1: And it's harmful to people because it's it extends the
Speaker 1: length of the anxiety and particularly for for for Black Americans,
Speaker 1: for Black women. What we know, but anxiety disorders are
Speaker 1: more chronic and the symptoms are more severe, and the
Speaker 1: stigma that keeps us from going to seek hill keeps
Speaker 1: us in bondage longer. If I was using faith terms. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: tell us tell everyone about your research. Your a tenured
Speaker 1: professor at Kent State University in the Department of Psychological Sciences. Um,
Speaker 1: tell us about currently what your research is between anxiety
Speaker 1: and and it's it's mainly Black women, right, It's mainly
Speaker 1: Black women and girls. And I direct the Program for
Speaker 1: Research and Anxiety Disorders among African Americans. And the acronym
Speaker 1: for that is product. So we look at a couple
Speaker 1: of things. When things to look at aspects of black
Speaker 1: culture that may lead to the development of anxiety disorders.
Speaker 1: So we look at a phenomena called acting white, which
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with wanting to be white and
Speaker 1: everything to do with what does it mean to be black?
Speaker 1: So when you're accused of acting white, what happens is
Speaker 1: is that someone who is black thinks that your racial
Speaker 1: identity basically is not black enough. Uh. I could do
Speaker 1: a whole podcast on that. And so what happens is
Speaker 1: that people you know, just uh, what we now know
Speaker 1: is that this accusation of acting white conserve as a
Speaker 1: formal bullying and so of racial bullying, and so that
Speaker 1: we see it plays a role in the development of
Speaker 1: social anxiety. That's what most other people think or I
Speaker 1: think other people will think X. So that's part of
Speaker 1: what we do. Uh. The other part we do a
Speaker 1: lot of intervention work. We find that we have these
Speaker 1: women with anxiety disorders. And when we started, PTSD was
Speaker 1: and anxiety disorders now a separate disorder PTSD. I let
Speaker 1: you know that, Yes, in the DSN five it's a
Speaker 1: separate category. But what happens is as we go out
Speaker 1: and we teach people how to implement feeds interventions, we
Speaker 1: consistently here that people didn't know if there was a
Speaker 1: name for what they were experiencing. It was what they
Speaker 1: thought life was supposed to be. Can you imagine living
Speaker 1: and not knowing that that life wasn't supposed to be
Speaker 1: this way? But there was help available. And when we
Speaker 1: investigate further, what we find is we find intergenerational or
Speaker 1: multigenerational anxiety. So my mother had panic disorder, her mother
Speaker 1: had panic disorder, HERBA. So we get all of these
Speaker 1: people who think this is the way life supposed to be.
Speaker 1: Just the idea that it's not supposed to be this
Speaker 1: way is absolutely free for them. So that's what we do.
Speaker 1: We've been doing a lot of work with pregnant black mothers.
Speaker 1: The different mortality rate is awful for black moms. Uh.
Speaker 1: The maternal morbidity rate is even worse. And the head
Speaker 1: of Adula Agency locked on my door one day and said,
Speaker 1: everybody said, I should come talk to you, uh, because
Speaker 1: we're seeing all these mothers and to us, they look
Speaker 1: stressed and anxious, but the researchers keep telling us that
Speaker 1: they're not. But everybody said you could help us. And
Speaker 1: of course they were stressed and anxious, and even more
Speaker 1: of them had PTSD untreated. But the fact was, when
Speaker 1: you gave them the standard instruments that hadn't been normed
Speaker 1: or hadn't been developed for Black Americans, then they under
Speaker 1: recorded what was happening, got it. So they're answering in
Speaker 1: that way of this is just how life is. Yes,
Speaker 1: that's an exactly what was happy. So a lot of
Speaker 1: what we do is now that we know this, how
Speaker 1: we intervene in ways that make it accessible to as
Speaker 1: many people as possible, make it culturally competent so that
Speaker 1: people will come and make sure that it's effective, so
Speaker 1: you know, people get better. I'll tell you what we
Speaker 1: do run into is women who say to us, if
Speaker 1: I start thinking about this, and I have to think
Speaker 1: about everything else, and I just can't allow that to happen.
Speaker 1: So if I start thinking about my anxiety, I have
Speaker 1: to start thinking about what what would be everything else
Speaker 1: be in the case all the other strussures in my
Speaker 1: life on it, uh, you know, and then I can't
Speaker 1: keep being strong and I can't allow that. Well, I
Speaker 1: hear a lot of times is I gotta keep keeping
Speaker 1: on because I can't tell But how are you going
Speaker 1: to tell a black woman just don't be hyper vigilant
Speaker 1: when she's going to go into a store and someone's
Speaker 1: gonna follow her around the shoplifting or you know, how
Speaker 1: does that work in quote real life? I don't tell
Speaker 1: them that, we don't say that, but we build that in.
Speaker 1: We don't pretend that systemic racism doesn't exist. And the
Speaker 1: fact is is that for many Black Americans, uh, they
Speaker 1: live in two worlds. They will foot in two worlds.
Speaker 1: So they may be working in a white world, uh
Speaker 1: and then living in a black world. You know, they
Speaker 1: have to go eight hours negotiating a white world. And
Speaker 1: that's where we talk about mask wearing. It comes from
Speaker 1: Paul Laurence done of our phone. We wear the mask,
Speaker 1: you know, who are you at work versus who are
Speaker 1: you when you leave work? And that many Black Americans,
Speaker 1: men and women oftentimes are the only one. So we
Speaker 1: talked about the anxiety of the only because the only
Speaker 1: one in the department, you know, the only one in
Speaker 1: the building. Uh. And that creates a great deal of
Speaker 1: stress and anxiety, and learning how to deal with that
Speaker 1: is an important piece for for people. You have to
Speaker 1: address it, yeah, because it's reality. Well, you mentioned in
Speaker 1: your book to that for black women sometimes getting hired somewhere,
Speaker 1: it's like, oh a two for one, We've got two
Speaker 1: minority categories, you know, and you know there must be
Speaker 1: so much stress of everything I do, I'm representing all
Speaker 1: black people. Everything I do, I'm representing all women. And
Speaker 1: you know, it's insane to think of being the only
Speaker 1: person of color or only women, are only one in
Speaker 1: in a work environment where there's just something. You know,
Speaker 1: in my industry, there's a lot of jobs that are
Speaker 1: mainly white men, and being in the only one in
Speaker 1: a room for me would be like being the only
Speaker 1: woman or something. But being the only one in the
Speaker 1: room is weird because they're also comfortable because they have
Speaker 1: each other. They don't even know it. It's not conscious
Speaker 1: right for the white people that they're just it's just
Speaker 1: normal to them. And so whereas if you're the only one,
Speaker 1: you're constantly thinking, I can't say this, I can't say that,
Speaker 1: how will they see me? They have no idea the
Speaker 1: the negotiating going on in anyone else's head. No, they haven't,
Speaker 1: they have They have no idea. The story I tell
Speaker 1: us about one of my um colleagues who was a
Speaker 1: different department, different building, denying that I was in, and
Speaker 1: one day she just up and moved her office to
Speaker 1: the Department of Black Studies, and you never ever she
Speaker 1: just moved off, not not for feeling mean, but she
Speaker 1: just I cannot do this anymore. Yeah, and yet it
Speaker 1: only showed up in the building where she was tenured
Speaker 1: to teach your classes and then went back to an
Speaker 1: environment where she did not have to be. And only
Speaker 1: like you said in your book that you know this.
Speaker 1: This stuff can physically take a toll on people and
Speaker 1: and it's bad for productivity as well for the company. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm looking on the number because it's gone up during
Speaker 1: the dual pandemics. But you know again, billions of dollars
Speaker 1: are lost each year by companies and corporations because of anxiety,
Speaker 1: uh and black anxiety. It can take some toll. I
Speaker 1: mean people get to the point where they don't even
Speaker 1: realize that they're assessing the scene before they know, before
Speaker 1: they becomes part of what you do. Yes, it's second
Speaker 1: nature as as and only well have you heard of
Speaker 1: any research or anything going on where companies are trying
Speaker 1: to change this? Are there any changes coming in this area?
Speaker 1: I think last summer or you know, the summer of
Speaker 1: twenty um people made it at least overtures to be back.
Speaker 1: But we found is that for some people it was
Speaker 1: just overtures and for some people, for some companies, it
Speaker 1: really was they were they were dedicated to doing this,
Speaker 1: but the reason that they had to do it was
Speaker 1: because their black employees just said no more, yeah and
Speaker 1: challenge them, uh and said you got to do something.
Speaker 1: You have to do something. Some people did things like
Speaker 1: form health equity centers within their corporations and companies. But
Speaker 1: I don't think we'll know the impact of those for
Speaker 1: another five years because we'll see are they making an
Speaker 1: infect So are you doing the work that will allow
Speaker 1: you to retain your black employees. I do a lot
Speaker 1: of work in corporations, but I am an academic. My
Speaker 1: university said we're going to hire, you know, a cohort
Speaker 1: of black faculty, and some department said, you can't make
Speaker 1: us higher black faculty. Oh my god. Well my answer
Speaker 1: would have been, that's correct, so therefore you don't need
Speaker 1: this position. You know, that would have been my answer.
Speaker 1: That's not the here today, we're given the best. You know,
Speaker 1: you don't got to hire anybody, but you know, these
Speaker 1: are black positions. Here's what's going to happen. Um. But
Speaker 1: you know, again, I mean, and part of that, part
Speaker 1: of that pushback comes from the lack of understanding and
Speaker 1: a belief about a black employee, whether they be faculty
Speaker 1: or or or they be lawyers, will they be accountants
Speaker 1: or whatever, that somehow that blackness makes them suspect or
Speaker 1: not as good at what they do. And that again
Speaker 1: knowing that contributes to anxiety of the development of anxiety.
Speaker 1: So some people never going in, but being in that
Speaker 1: situation day in, day out, for many people creates even
Speaker 1: if it's smideld, some form of anxiety, and I imagine
Speaker 1: that can lead to depression. Yeah, like if that kind
Speaker 1: of anxiety is on your shoulders, that that cannot just
Speaker 1: flow right into depression. Yes, depression sometimes looks different in
Speaker 1: Black Americans. And so one of the things will be
Speaker 1: whenever I see an angry black woman or somebody who
Speaker 1: characterized as an angry black woman, I want to know
Speaker 1: if I'm what I'm seeing is actually irritability, which is
Speaker 1: a formal depression, or if I'm seeing social anxiety. And
Speaker 1: so the anger is kind of a shield from people
Speaker 1: actually finding out that I'm actually anxious. We'll be right
Speaker 1: back and for you, you were the first African American
Speaker 1: tenured professor right at at Kent. Yes, I was the
Speaker 1: first African American. I'm full professor, which is the top
Speaker 1: of the line in professor gut uh. So I was
Speaker 1: the first full professor in my department. I was the
Speaker 1: first full professor in my college. And I remained that
Speaker 1: way for ten years until September. But at least in
Speaker 1: my college, they promoted people to full professor. And when
Speaker 1: the university celebrated it's one hundred year, that was the
Speaker 1: first year that they actually promoted any Black woman to
Speaker 1: full professor. Oh my god. So are there conflicted feelings
Speaker 1: in a way about that where it's like I do again,
Speaker 1: And because the Lane who was promoted to full professor
Speaker 1: fought too famail to get it and it was denied
Speaker 1: at twice and so again. And that's the story. I mean,
Speaker 1: her story is not unique. These are the stories of
Speaker 1: black women across the country. So its fuel. It gives
Speaker 1: us a sense of reality to some of the fear,
Speaker 1: some of the things that it that create anxiety for
Speaker 1: black women because we all know someone it happened too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when we look at a Black American culture, if i'm
Speaker 1: its collective, you know, so that when um, when one
Speaker 1: of us succeeds, all of us succeeds. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think about the people who came before me, and now
Speaker 1: I'm at the age rundload. I came before a lot
Speaker 1: of people, but I think about that, and so I
Speaker 1: think about the people coming be looking before me and
Speaker 1: the people who are coming after me. And I think
Speaker 1: the way that many of us look at this is
Speaker 1: that we're paving the road so it's easier pro those
Speaker 1: who are coming behind us. And I think that's what
Speaker 1: tempers us from being resentful. We paved road. It should
Speaker 1: not be as hard for my children and my children's children,
Speaker 1: and my children's children should be easier. And that sense
Speaker 1: of collectivensm my biggest very. It plays a role in
Speaker 1: tempering uh many Black Americans anxiety. And you also talked
Speaker 1: about the difference between black and white anxiety and that
Speaker 1: white women do something called tend and be friend. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you know, in the face of a stress, white
Speaker 1: women on tended be for that uh door. Neil Hrston
Speaker 1: said that black women were the mules in the world
Speaker 1: that are carry everyone's bird, you know, And so it's
Speaker 1: white women tend to be friend and then that's it,
Speaker 1: and black women tend to be friend, keep it all in,
Speaker 1: keep it all, keep it all. Yeah, So that that
Speaker 1: goes to that strong black woman, Yes, a strong black woman,
Speaker 1: um black women of a certain age level movie called
Speaker 1: Imitation of like have you e receive it? I haven't known.
Speaker 1: You have to watch it this even older version which
Speaker 1: is very very different than the I think that's one
Speaker 1: of the one that most people watched from the sixties,
Speaker 1: but the one is from the thirties is different. But
Speaker 1: what is what is he in each version is that
Speaker 1: there's says, there's this white woman and there is this uh,
Speaker 1: there is this black woman who is her maid basically
Speaker 1: or her cook or or and uh. The black woman
Speaker 1: has a daughter who can pass. And the daughter does
Speaker 1: does pass. She's very the daughter is very ashamed that
Speaker 1: her mother is black, and the daughter wants to be
Speaker 1: to be white and passes as white. And in the
Speaker 1: sixties version, the mother with the black mother gets sick
Speaker 1: and they have to find the daughter to come and
Speaker 1: be with her. So the black mother says two things
Speaker 1: that that stand out for black woman in this movie.
Speaker 1: One is what the black mother says, ji the day
Speaker 1: she gets married, at the day that she dies, or
Speaker 1: the two most important days. The woman's life. Okay, that
Speaker 1: was on her death bed, okay. And you know in
Speaker 1: most of even different scenes, he are saying, go to
Speaker 1: the light. We love you. You know, we know that
Speaker 1: God is waiting for you, etcetera, etcetera. This woman is
Speaker 1: dying and the white people around her bed are saying,
Speaker 1: you keep dieing, You can't die. How are we going
Speaker 1: to move forward without you? So you know, when you
Speaker 1: talk about a strong white woman, you when Kenny and
Speaker 1: die in peace, you know people are loving to want them,
Speaker 1: to help them, even on their death bed. And of
Speaker 1: course she has the most Gritish funeral, four white horses,
Speaker 1: character to glory and be Hailior Jackson seeing at her
Speaker 1: feeble she gets to heaven and a white woman needs help.
Speaker 1: That's the sequel. It's about being a strong black. I mean,
Speaker 1: she is the strong black woman. You know, they're getting
Speaker 1: ready to be evicted and she you know, she talks
Speaker 1: the milk man and the plandlord. I mean, she saves
Speaker 1: everyone in the movie, including the Noble Daughter, but she
Speaker 1: cannot save herself. You cannot save herself. And that's what
Speaker 1: happens with strong black women. We saved everybody, yeah, but
Speaker 1: we don't save ourselves. And so I don't think we
Speaker 1: should should throw out being strong black women. I think
Speaker 1: we should use the parts that are really good about
Speaker 1: doing that to help us as we take that journey
Speaker 1: to overcome exide a normalst of the time. A couple
Speaker 1: of things, Um, you talked about anxiety specific to black women.
Speaker 1: And I was fascinated with this because I've never heard
Speaker 1: anyone talk about this, which right, which writing? And I
Speaker 1: experienced sleep process and so I said, now's ever talked
Speaker 1: about this? But um, yeah, which writing, which I had
Speaker 1: never heard, Um, can we talk about sleep promise is
Speaker 1: an anxiety that's called witch writing? Yes, so uh, you know,
Speaker 1: people who were raised themself talk about wit writing, or
Speaker 1: some people might say, I hate out ahold of me.
Speaker 1: Um and and and what happens is just as you're
Speaker 1: falling and sleep or just as you're breaking up, your
Speaker 1: feel as if you can't move, uh, and then you
Speaker 1: have these kind of hypnogogic hallucinations, and of course you panic.
Speaker 1: And so what we know is that this occurs in
Speaker 1: all cultures. People say, oh, I've had that experience, Yeah,
Speaker 1: but what happens with Black Americans isn't recurred. So they
Speaker 1: have it over and over and over again, and it's
Speaker 1: almost akin to a nighttime panic at hitt and most
Speaker 1: people effects occur at night as well. So uh, it's
Speaker 1: just a form of anxiety but steeped in folklore, but
Speaker 1: is actually again akin to having a panic attack, which
Speaker 1: is right and you because what happens is it you've
Speaker 1: done somebody wrong, where you've done something, you've done wrong,
Speaker 1: and so you get you know, because you've done wrong,
Speaker 1: but which right until you do roight? Uh? And that's
Speaker 1: the folklore. Uh. And some people just dismissed it until
Speaker 1: we really began to look at it and say, hey,
Speaker 1: you know, this is related to anxiety. This is Parker anxiety.
Speaker 1: And it's interesting that anxiety happens more tonight because it's
Speaker 1: kind of our defenses are down a little bit. Anxiety
Speaker 1: it is time to get our attention. I don't know
Speaker 1: if anxieties trying to get our attention and a little
Speaker 1: bit of phrase it like that. Uh. But you know,
Speaker 1: one way to think about it is uh that that
Speaker 1: our defenses are down. So lastly, um, let's talk about
Speaker 1: only plans of actions. UM. Finding a therapist advice for
Speaker 1: loved ones who live with someone with anxiety. What should
Speaker 1: people put in their tool kit? How can their friends
Speaker 1: and family help them, how can they find a therapist?
Speaker 1: And what can they do every day? So first of all,
Speaker 1: I think, if you have to call it what it is,
Speaker 1: you have to call this what it is. Secondly, why
Speaker 1: tell them I go out and talk to people about
Speaker 1: finding a therapist? I tell them it's the same way
Speaker 1: that you find a hair dresser or a barber if
Speaker 1: you're black. You know that's great, Yeah, to think about
Speaker 1: it in those terms, and none of us would go
Speaker 1: to a therapist, would go to a hairdresser or barber
Speaker 1: who didn't know how to do black cap. You want
Speaker 1: to find a therapist who is culturally competent. Many of
Speaker 1: us want black therapists, but there aren't enough of us
Speaker 1: to go around. We just you know, they just aren't. It.
Speaker 1: It's like two of us our psychologist us, one person
Speaker 1: of us are psychiatrists, and four person of our social
Speaker 1: workers counselors. So no, none of us exists. So cultural competence,
Speaker 1: which means they know how to do black hair and
Speaker 1: they've actually done black hair but just didn't study it
Speaker 1: in school. They've done it, so they've had at least
Speaker 1: one client who is black. The other thing you want
Speaker 1: to understand is that the gold standard of treating anxiety
Speaker 1: and its disorders is cognitive behavioral therapy. So somebody who
Speaker 1: wants to do well, have you lay on a couch
Speaker 1: and psychoanalyze you. That's not the type of therapy that
Speaker 1: you want for anxiety disorders. You want Cargian behavioral, which
Speaker 1: is understanding the connection between your mind and body. And
Speaker 1: if you want a Christian counselor, then they also will
Speaker 1: be doing cognitive behavioral therapy as well. If they understand
Speaker 1: stand that. Okay, and Finns and family, you know, we're
Speaker 1: not going to reassure people reassure it doesn't work, as
Speaker 1: I said earlier. But what we do do is we
Speaker 1: support them in their journey of healing. And the other
Speaker 1: thing we do, but again we're doing against a certain
Speaker 1: types of social anxieties. That is that while we're supporting,
Speaker 1: we don't serve as that safe person anymore. We encourage
Speaker 1: them to go out and do the things their therapists
Speaker 1: has has told them, as has suggested that they do.
Speaker 1: But we don't run to the store for them because
Speaker 1: they're feeling a little anxious Uh, okay, Well, you know,
Speaker 1: I'll ride along with you, but you're going you're the
Speaker 1: one who goes in the store, not me. Or I'll
Speaker 1: go into the store with you. But those kinds of things. Uh.
Speaker 1: And then I think the way you start your morning
Speaker 1: affects the way your day goes. So most of us
Speaker 1: get up in the morning when we start scrolling through
Speaker 1: our phones. Yeah, don't do that. So you might want
Speaker 1: to get up in the morning. You may want to
Speaker 1: start out with music because what's playing music or program
Speaker 1: or whatever it is or smart device to play a
Speaker 1: song that has positive meaning for you? Uh. We all
Speaker 1: have all sorts of apps now for everything, so you
Speaker 1: can do ten minutes of yoga, or ten minutes of mindfulness,
Speaker 1: or or ten minutes of workout. We now know the
Speaker 1: research now tells us those things are very helpful in
Speaker 1: terms of anxious negative flos. I'm a big yoga fan
Speaker 1: because everythings you're gonna do in ten minutes. And then
Speaker 1: you know, it's almost become cliche because everybody is saying
Speaker 1: it will just give yourself grace. But I would say
Speaker 1: that for those of us who are black Americans, we
Speaker 1: have to think back to what a Wreatha tells us,
Speaker 1: and that grace leads us home. Home is the place
Speaker 1: where we are our best selves. And that, as we
Speaker 1: call it, what it is when we ask for help,
Speaker 1: when we follow through with that help from the standpoint
Speaker 1: of anxiety, we become our best selves. I love that,
Speaker 1: and it takes us back to where we began. That
Speaker 1: that's why we want to get better, right. And thank
Speaker 1: you for reminding me about music. It's so easy to
Speaker 1: start the day with talk. You know, podcasts, people talking
Speaker 1: music just cuts through. Yeah, what is the same? Music
Speaker 1: sumes the savage beasts, um, So all of those things
Speaker 1: are just so important. Thank you Dr Angela for for
Speaker 1: talking to me today. I hope everybody learned so much.
Speaker 1: And is there anything you'd to promote in addition to
Speaker 1: your book soothe your nerves? I always promote good mental health.
Speaker 1: And there's no sin and shame in asking for help.
Speaker 1: That the sin and shane comes, but we don't ask
Speaker 1: for help. We keep it in and it begins to
Speaker 1: really seep into our spirits. I love it. Thank you
Speaker 1: again for being here. Are you welcome? I would be
Speaker 1: loved my chat with Dr Angela as much as I did.
Speaker 1: And again, she says she is not here to promote
Speaker 1: anything but good mental health. But again, if you want
Speaker 1: to learn more about her, please visit all of the
Speaker 1: links in the show notes. Now, let's talk about some
Speaker 1: takeaways from this episode with Dr Angela. First of all,
Speaker 1: Dr Angelis says that when you refer to your anxiety
Speaker 1: as your nerves or as stress, you're really not on
Speaker 1: the road to healing and getting better. The first step
Speaker 1: is to call it what it is, anxiety, and if
Speaker 1: you don't know what it is, then you're not going
Speaker 1: to know what to do to get better. Anxiety and
Speaker 1: panic attacks they are two different things. Often people say
Speaker 1: anxiety attacks. There's really no such thing as an anxiety attack.
Speaker 1: There's anxiety and then there are panic attacks. Dr Angelis says,
Speaker 1: when asking questions about anxiety, do not ask why. The
Speaker 1: problem with that is that there's never an answer, and
Speaker 1: when you're trying to figure out something that there's no
Speaker 1: answer to, you're going to increase your anxiety. So enough
Speaker 1: with the why. The question you want to ask is
Speaker 1: what what is happening? And what am I going to
Speaker 1: do about it? Then you're on the road to getting help,
Speaker 1: healthier and healthier. That's right, everybody. Oh my god, why
Speaker 1: do I think I can speak for a living healthier
Speaker 1: and happier Anxiety defined is simply the perception of a
Speaker 1: future threat. You don't know what, you don't know when,
Speaker 1: and you don't know where, but you just know something
Speaker 1: is going to happen. It's like being in a constant
Speaker 1: state of waiting for the other shoe to drop again.
Speaker 1: The most common thing that people having a panic attack
Speaker 1: think is I'm going crazy. I'm crazy. This means I'm crazy.
Speaker 1: Dr Angela wants to remind you to ask yourself in
Speaker 1: those moments, am I having thoughts of seriously harming myself?
Speaker 1: Am I having trouble separating reality from fantasy? That is
Speaker 1: severe mental illness? But a panic attack and anxiety are
Speaker 1: not severe mental illnesses. Nobody has ever died of a
Speaker 1: panic attack. Faith and psychology do not have to be
Speaker 1: two separate things in the sense that you cannot pray
Speaker 1: your anxiety at way, and it does not mean you
Speaker 1: don't have enough faith if prayer isn't taking care of
Speaker 1: your anxiety. Dr Angela wants us to know that black
Speaker 1: Americans get misdiagnosed all of the time, compared to white Americans.
Speaker 1: A white American could get diagnosed with having anxiety or
Speaker 1: having a panic attack, whereas a Black American we'll get
Speaker 1: diagnosed with a panic disorder or something even bigger superimposed
Speaker 1: on some other major disorder, which may not be the case.
Speaker 1: The mythology of the strong black woman can cause a
Speaker 1: lot of anxiety, which can also lead to depression. Anxiety
Speaker 1: and panic is intergenerational, multigenerational. Your mother could have had
Speaker 1: panic disorder than your grandmother had panic disorder. So not
Speaker 1: only do we inherit it, but we can see by
Speaker 1: being raised. Oh, this is the way life is supposed
Speaker 1: to be. Dr Angela wants you to start your day
Speaker 1: with something positive that you can do right when you
Speaker 1: wake up before the anxiety has a ants to hit
Speaker 1: play a song that puts you in a positive mood.
Speaker 1: She says, as cliche as it sounds, do some yoga,
Speaker 1: do a workout, even if it's just ten minutes, it
Speaker 1: can help redirect the course of your day. And again,
Speaker 1: don't forget to give yourself a little bit of grace.
Speaker 1: Thank you again for listening to anxiety bites. Just remember
Speaker 1: anxiety bites, but you're in control. For more podcasts for
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast,
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.