Speaker 1: This is the Patriots Catch twenty two Podcasts with Evan
Speaker 1: Lazar and Alex bart.
Speaker 2: Lazarre.
Speaker 1: Hello, everybody nailed it.
Speaker 2: He joined as always by our bark.
Speaker 1: Here is Evan Lazar and Alex bars.
Speaker 2: All right, well you just went through a sickness, an
Speaker 2: illness to just go three minutes on Joe Millen. So
Speaker 2: that's how you know how good he is or how
Speaker 2: nobody get you interesting?
Speaker 1: Interesting?
Speaker 2: I didn't say good, You're right?
Speaker 1: Is Evan changing his tone on that one?
Speaker 2: Has he gone from there?
Speaker 1: Has he gone from interested to end? Has he dropped
Speaker 1: the tristed when it comes to Joe Milton? We will
Speaker 1: find out later on in the program. It is Alex
Speaker 1: Barth and Evan Lazar brand new episode of Catch twenty two.
Speaker 1: Last week I was virtual because I was sick, didn't
Speaker 1: have my voice. Evan was in the host chair. This week,
Speaker 1: Evan is in mobile. He is at the Senior Bowl.
Speaker 1: So I am in the host chair here in Foxborough,
Speaker 1: here at Chillette Stadium. Obviously we're going to have a
Speaker 1: ton of Senior Bowl talk, a ton of prospect talk,
Speaker 1: a ton of draft talk.
Speaker 2: Today.
Speaker 1: Let's take your calls eight five to five Pats five
Speaker 1: hundred eight five five Pats five hundred again the number
Speaker 1: of web radio at Patriots dot com if you want
Speaker 1: to email in. So it will be mostly draft, mostly
Speaker 1: Senior Bowl. But the Patriots hired a coordinator and that's
Speaker 1: a big deal. There's only three on the team. Actually,
Speaker 1: they've hired two I think since our last show.
Speaker 2: I think comtitles.
Speaker 1: I think the Comington hired didn't come until that was
Speaker 1: over the weekend, right, So ye, We've got a couple
Speaker 1: of coordinator related notes to get to, and we'll talk
Speaker 1: about the offensive coordinator as well before we get into
Speaker 1: the prospect. So Evan, I guess let's start there. The
Speaker 1: offensive coordinator conversation is probably going to be a bit
Speaker 1: on the longer side. So just what they have in
Speaker 1: play so far? Or DeMarcus Covington, Jeremy Springer, your thoughts
Speaker 1: on those two guys starting off Girodmeo's staff.
Speaker 2: Well, on a positive note with DeMarcus Covington, I feel
Speaker 2: like this is twofold one. You wanted to see them
Speaker 2: keep some continuity on the defense side of the ball.
Speaker 2: Obviously they were going to do that already with the
Speaker 2: head coach being an internal promotion, but I felt like
Speaker 2: that side of the ball really wasn't broken. There was
Speaker 2: no need to go outside the box and try to
Speaker 2: fix something that was working. Ninth and DBOA last year,
Speaker 2: top ten finishing DVOA the year before that as well,
Speaker 2: So they're okay on the defense side of the ball.
Speaker 2: I know, in you're four and thirteen, it feels like
Speaker 2: everything is bad, but they weren't bad on defenses past year.
Speaker 2: And DeMarcus Covington has a lot of fans in that
Speaker 2: locker room, and that I think is a big thing
Speaker 2: about the way they're going through this process is making
Speaker 2: sure that the players are on board with the coaches
Speaker 2: that are in place, and that they have a pro
Speaker 2: player coaching staff, you know, a player friend coaching staff.
Speaker 2: And I think DeMarcus Covington has a lot of fans
Speaker 2: in the locker room welly, very well respected, very well
Speaker 2: thought of, and a hot commodity. I think a guy
Speaker 2: that a lot of teams that were interested in as
Speaker 2: a defensive coordinator, interviewed a bunch of different places. So
Speaker 2: in that respect, I feel a lot of positive jews
Speaker 2: from DeMarcus Covington, but I'm interested to hear your take
Speaker 2: on this, Alex. You know, there are two things that
Speaker 2: do worry me. One, this whole entire coaching staff Jeremy
Speaker 2: Springer included the special teams coordinator that they reportedly hired,
Speaker 2: All Young, a lot of first time guys on the job.
Speaker 2: DeMarcus Covington has never called plays in an NFL game before.
Speaker 2: Girod Mayo has never called defensive plays in an NFL
Speaker 2: game before. So they're passing that towards most likely from
Speaker 2: Steve Belichick to DeMarcus Covington. So the inexperience is a
Speaker 2: worrisome factor for me and all this. But I do
Speaker 2: like DeMarcus Covington, like I like Girod. I think they're
Speaker 2: both good coaches. Just going to be a matter of
Speaker 2: is it too much inexperience and do they have enough
Speaker 2: proven sort of commodities on the coaching staff to carry
Speaker 2: them through and how does the play calling thing go?
Speaker 2: Because to me, I don't see how Steve Belichick stays
Speaker 2: in this equation.
Speaker 1: You don't know that I'm not rolling it out yet.
Speaker 2: I know and I know there's been reports. I think
Speaker 2: Reese has floated out their potential assistant head coach title
Speaker 2: instead of defensive coordinator. But I just feel like it's weird,
Speaker 2: especially for a young thirty four year old first time
Speaker 2: defensive coordinator, to have the guy that was calling plays
Speaker 2: and essentially Coke defensive coordinating or co coordinating the defense
Speaker 2: last year, last couple of years with Drodmeo, to have
Speaker 2: Steve in the building kind of like hanging over his shoulder.
Speaker 2: First couple of signs of trouble rough Waters, like, are
Speaker 2: people going to start asking and questioning why is and
Speaker 2: Steve the play caller? Why is and Steve taking more
Speaker 2: charge of the defense. I just think that a clean
Speaker 2: slate is probably what's best for DeMarcus Covington, even if
Speaker 2: Steve would add value in the building in general, I
Speaker 2: don't know how you feel about that.
Speaker 1: I think if I don't know, how many people are
Speaker 1: going to be calling for Steve Belichick to be the
Speaker 1: head coach if it doesn't go well with Gerrod, I
Speaker 1: think people are gonna go right just back to while
Speaker 1: they shouldn't have fired Bill. And that's gonna happen whether
Speaker 1: Steve's in the building or not. So I don't think
Speaker 1: there's too much there. I think if Drowd Mayo thinks
Speaker 1: he adds value, and it adds to Mayo's comfort level
Speaker 1: having him in the building. I'd take I'd bring him back.
Speaker 1: If DD Mayo's worried about the overhanging elements of the
Speaker 1: Belichick name, you know, you got it's drawd ship. Let
Speaker 1: him run the ship. You know, that's who should ultimately
Speaker 1: be up to. If he thinks it's beneficial to have
Speaker 1: Steve Belichick back, then I'm all for it. The play
Speaker 1: calling thing is the biggest question here. Because they kept
Speaker 1: the continuity, you figure that they're not going to change much,
Speaker 1: if anything, schematically, it's going to be more or less
Speaker 1: the same core concepts. So the personnel still works all
Speaker 1: of that. It's just what's it gonna look like calling plays?
Speaker 1: And that's the big question for me, And real quick
Speaker 1: on Jeremy Springer. I know a lot of people are
Speaker 1: worried about the RAMS special teams. I don't have the
Speaker 1: DVA numbers in front of me, but they were.
Speaker 2: Dead last, all right, so they were.
Speaker 1: They were also dead last on PFF last year in
Speaker 1: terms of special teams. The year before that they were
Speaker 1: thirty first, so or no, sorry, they were thirty first
Speaker 1: in the year before that, dead last. So it hasn't
Speaker 1: been good to which I'll say one at least last
Speaker 1: year they were super young. They had something like twenty
Speaker 1: udfa's on that roster, and the one area they were
Speaker 1: good is their kickers. Their kickers were generally pretty good.
Speaker 1: So I'm not gonna sit here. I know I'm normally
Speaker 1: the guy, the special teams guy. I'm not gonna sit
Speaker 1: here and tell you I know all the special teams
Speaker 1: candidates that were available right from the people who were
Speaker 1: interviewing around the league. It's not like there were many
Speaker 1: special teams coaches interviewing from successful special teams units. Like
Speaker 1: most of the guys they interviewed. The guy from the
Speaker 1: Giants whose name I'm blanking on, their special teams ranked
Speaker 1: kind of towards the bottom his last two years. They're
Speaker 1: Marquise Williams, who they offered the job to and he
Speaker 1: turned it down. The Falcons were fifteen special teams two
Speaker 1: years ago, but last year they were towards the bottom
Speaker 1: of the league. And most major metrics, these are just
Speaker 1: the coaches who are available. There's more variance with special
Speaker 1: teams than there is with offense or defense. You can
Speaker 1: go from the bottom to the top or the top
Speaker 1: to the bottom. It varies very dramatically year to year.
Speaker 1: So if they put the pieces in place, I think
Speaker 1: Jeremy Springer will be okay. They just have to do that.
Speaker 1: But I do understand, you know, why you bring in
Speaker 1: a guy who was an assistant for the unit that
Speaker 1: ranked dead last in the league last year. It's a
Speaker 1: valid question. I'm not gonna sit here and say it's
Speaker 1: not a valid question.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think Rick Gosling, who does the annual special
Speaker 2: teams rankings every single year that I know people in
Speaker 2: the league actually do pay attention to and do care
Speaker 2: about a little bit. They were also dead last. The
Speaker 2: Rams were in that statistic as well. The Patriots were
Speaker 2: more middle of the pack last year, I believe it
Speaker 2: or not, despite the kicking issues. So I understand the
Speaker 2: concern with Jeremy Springer based off of what the Rams
Speaker 2: have done. I'm also not gonna sit here and pretend
Speaker 2: like I know every single special teams coordinator or know
Speaker 2: exactly the schemes that Jeremy Springer is gonna run on
Speaker 2: special teams. But I will say this, I do find
Speaker 2: it interesting how Gerrodmeo is gonna approach special teams versus
Speaker 2: how Bill Belichick approached special teams. Are they going to
Speaker 2: have the Matthew Slaters, Brendon Schoolers, Chris Boards, Cody Davis's
Speaker 2: of the world all on the roster next year? And
Speaker 2: I wonder, you know, Springer working with a bunch of
Speaker 2: young players last year, we're working with a bunch of
Speaker 2: rookies on special teams. Maybe they look at it and say,
Speaker 2: we're probably gonna be giving those roster spots away to
Speaker 2: guys that we think are gonna contribute in multiple phases
Speaker 2: instead of just in the kicking game. And we don't
Speaker 2: necessarily do it the way that Bill Belichick viewed it
Speaker 2: in terms of having all those special teams only guys
Speaker 2: on the roster. Therefore, there are gonna be some rookies
Speaker 2: that are gonna play in the kicking game. There are
Speaker 2: gonna be some udfas that are gonna play in the
Speaker 2: kicking game. And I think that that's a good thing
Speaker 2: because I look at some of those things as opportunities,
Speaker 2: you know, for players like last year a mere Speed again,
Speaker 2: you know, he was a guy that really they only
Speaker 2: viewed as a special teamer. He gets picked up by
Speaker 2: the Colts when they tried waving him. Marty Mapu, like,
Speaker 2: those types of players should be playing regularly on special
Speaker 2: teams and in the kicking game, and that can get
Speaker 2: players up to speed with the speed of the game,
Speaker 2: tackling live in game situations and things like that to
Speaker 2: the point where maybe in year two they are contributing
Speaker 2: on defense. Maybe they are contributing on defense later on
Speaker 2: in year one if they show out on special teams
Speaker 2: and show that they can handle the physicality and the
Speaker 2: speed and the tackling and the open field and things
Speaker 2: of that. Sure, so I would like to see them
Speaker 2: give some of the younger players some opportunities to just
Speaker 2: get into these games. And maybe that's how Girodmeo looks
Speaker 2: at it. On special teams, No offense to Board and
Speaker 2: Davis and those types of players, But those guys are
Speaker 2: veteran guys that have played a ton of football that
Speaker 2: you know didn't help the bottom line of their special
Speaker 2: teams unit last year all that much. So why not
Speaker 2: give those opportunities to some of the younger players coming in.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's unfair to have one or two
Speaker 1: of those guys on the roster. If you had like
Speaker 1: a Matthew Slater and a Cody Davis.
Speaker 2: And like Matthew Slater is one thing, though Matthew Slader
Speaker 2: is an all time great special teamer.
Speaker 1: Right, But I'm saying, even if you had one or
Speaker 1: two core special teams guys, I think that's that's realistic
Speaker 1: because you want guys that can, it's their primary focus.
Speaker 1: It's with their two too. You want leaders in that group.
Speaker 1: I think there is something to be said where if
Speaker 1: you're just constantly changing eleven guys or ten guys might
Speaker 1: skick or punter in and out, you lose some continuity
Speaker 1: on that side in that phase. I think it helps
Speaker 1: they what was it, it was nine they had this
Speaker 1: year that only played special teams, Like, that's too many.
Speaker 1: I think one or two is fine. I wouldn't want zero.
Speaker 1: I do think it's important to have some leaders in
Speaker 1: that room beyond kicker, punter, long snapper. You don't need
Speaker 1: nine to again. One or two to me is sweet spot.
Speaker 1: All right. Now we have offensive coordinator Yep down to
Speaker 1: so they interviewed eleven candidates, but we are down to
Speaker 1: six in terms of people who they have interviewed who
Speaker 1: have not either taken another job or in the case
Speaker 1: of guy like Jarrad Johnson, I think that was last
Speaker 1: night right that broke with Jarraw Johnson that he's going
Speaker 1: the other night, that he's gonna stay in Houston. So
Speaker 1: the six guys still kind of up in the air
Speaker 1: are I'm just in no particular order. This is the
Speaker 1: order I have them written down. Nick Kayley, who is
Speaker 1: the Rams tight ends coach, obviously was here for eight
Speaker 1: years as a tight ends coach, Tanner Engstrand who's the
Speaker 1: Lions pass game coordinator, former tight ends coach Brian Flurry
Speaker 1: who's the Niners tight ends coach, Luke Getsi who's the
Speaker 1: former Bears offensive coordinator in Packers quarterbacks coach Clint Kubiak
Speaker 1: who's the Niners pass game coordinator, and Scott Turner who
Speaker 1: is the Raiders pass game coordinator. Let's actually let's do
Speaker 1: Kaylee last, because Kaylie's kind of been viewed as the favorite,
Speaker 1: So let's let's end it. There a lot of attention
Speaker 1: in that Shanahan, McVeigh, Lafleur category, Angstrand I really like.
Speaker 1: I think Kubiak's an interesting candidate. It does seem like
Speaker 1: whichever direction they go, the only guy, the only Guys
Speaker 1: that aren't from that tree are Angstrand, who's in Detroit
Speaker 1: and has been in Detroit. And is Scott Turner in
Speaker 1: that tree like he's kind of bounced around. I'm not
Speaker 1: really sure what his.
Speaker 2: Is, not not necessarily, I mean he he was in
Speaker 2: Washington for a minute. So it feels like it, right
Speaker 2: because everybody in that tree is from.
Speaker 1: He's never been in any one spot long enough for
Speaker 1: me to look at it and be like, all right,
Speaker 1: that must be where his core for lost he comes from.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So it's interesting because, like you know, Angstream with
Speaker 2: the Lions, for example, and Ben Johnson, they run a
Speaker 2: pass game and a play action pass game that I
Speaker 2: would say has a ton of overlap to what the
Speaker 2: Shanahan Tree is doing. They're all about what's clear out
Speaker 2: the middle of the field and let's create you know,
Speaker 2: intermediate shots into the middle of the field with stretched
Speaker 2: vertical stretch elements in the middle of the field and
Speaker 2: things like that, and then obviously running the football. But
Speaker 2: they run the football differently. They're not an outside zone
Speaker 2: based scheme. They're a downhill scheme. They're a power scheme.
Speaker 2: They run a lot of duo, they run a lot
Speaker 2: of counter trap that type of stuff. So they do
Speaker 2: it a little bit differently than the Niners guys or
Speaker 2: the McVeigh guys do it, but it's the pass game
Speaker 2: is pretty similar in terms of how it marries up
Speaker 2: and things like that. That's and it's why Jared Goff
Speaker 2: has been successful going from the Rams to the Lions,
Speaker 2: and they've built that around Jared Goff a little bit
Speaker 2: as well, I'm sure. So I wouldn't say that Egstrand
Speaker 2: is is Shanahan Try by any means, But it's a branch,
Speaker 2: right Like It's not like a main branch, but it's
Speaker 2: it's kind of like an adjacent in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2: He's a fascinating candidate obviously, just based off of the
Speaker 2: Lions recent success and Ben Johnson staying in Detroit, it
Speaker 2: would be a great higher But at this point I
Speaker 2: think that Nick Kayley, it would be an upset if
Speaker 2: it wasn't Nick Kayley as the offensive coordinator. And I
Speaker 2: think that there is a chance though that one of
Speaker 2: these names on this list ends up coming in as
Speaker 2: a top assistant as well, like maybe a quarterbacks coach,
Speaker 2: or maybe they give somebody a pass game coordinator title.
Speaker 2: You know Nick Kayley has been working with tight ends,
Speaker 2: so he does a little bit of bold pass game
Speaker 2: run game, but I'd say he might steer a little
Speaker 2: bit more towards run game in his background. So is
Speaker 2: there a chance that they bring in a Clinton, Kooby
Speaker 2: or Getsi, who both have experience with quarterbacks as a
Speaker 2: quarterbacks coach slash pass game coordinator, and that brings in
Speaker 2: somebody in the building that has worked closely with a quarterback,
Speaker 2: because I think that is really important.
Speaker 1: So, okay, do you think because the question a lot
Speaker 1: of people have with Kaylee is is he coming back?
Speaker 1: He has a year in mcveigh's system, so he's exposed
Speaker 1: to it. But that's compared to eight years in Josh
Speaker 1: McDaniel's system. Which one is he coming back to run?
Speaker 1: Which one are you bring him back to run? How
Speaker 1: much does just one year of exposure give him when
Speaker 1: it comes to actually implementing that McVeigh offense.
Speaker 2: It's the number one question is which playbook is he
Speaker 2: coming in to run? And I look at it and
Speaker 2: I don't think that you can. Your roots are in
Speaker 2: the system that they're in, right, So I don't think
Speaker 2: that you can completely reinvent yourself in one year now,
Speaker 2: can he pull from the Shanahan McVay stuff and maybe
Speaker 2: they bring a little bit more motion, Maybe they bring
Speaker 2: a little bit more outside zone, maybe they bring a
Speaker 2: little bit more of the boot actions and things like that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: absolutely that that could be a bigger part of the
Speaker 2: offense compared to what we've seen it over the last
Speaker 2: twenty four years. But I would have to imagine that
Speaker 2: there's going to be more overlap with the Patriots playbook
Speaker 2: than the McVay playbook. With that being said, though, if
Speaker 2: they bring a Getzi who is with Lafleur in Green Bay,
Speaker 2: or they bring Koobiak who's in San Francisco right now,
Speaker 2: it does give you two people that have been in
Speaker 2: that system. So if they want to go more towards
Speaker 2: that thing, that line of thinking, then those two guys
Speaker 2: can then help. One of those two guys can could
Speaker 2: help a Nick Kaylee implement more of those things. But
Speaker 2: I think that where Kaylee's it's mainly just you pick
Speaker 2: up little things here and there. I don't think you're
Speaker 2: going to completely reinvent yourself from one year with Sean McVay.
Speaker 1: Again, you want to call and join us, We're talking
Speaker 1: coordinators right now, we'll get into the Senior Bowl in
Speaker 1: the little bit and want to ask us about prospects
Speaker 1: eight five five pats five hundred, So eight five five
Speaker 1: seven to eight seven five hundred. My one thing, Look,
Speaker 1: if Kaylee's gonna come here and implement McVeigh style things
Speaker 1: into the pre existing Patriots offense, that's one thing. If
Speaker 1: you're bringing him back just to run the Josh McDaniels offense,
Speaker 1: I know people aren't gonna want to hear this one
Speaker 1: to say it. Just just bring back Josh McDaniels at
Speaker 1: that point.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. I honestly, we've been talking about this a
Speaker 2: little bit out here. Why they're there seems so reluctant,
Speaker 2: at least at this moment, to bring back Josh McDaniels.
Speaker 2: I think it's a little surprising. Maybe him and Gerrodmeo
Speaker 2: didn't have the tightest of relationships. Maybe they want to
Speaker 2: distance themselves from the Belichick thing. I get that, But
Speaker 2: I don't know about you, Alex, But like if you
Speaker 2: just look at the names that they're interviewing and the
Speaker 2: guys that are available right now, I mean, is there
Speaker 2: any question that Josh McDaniels is the most qualified candidate
Speaker 2: on the market to be the offensive coordinator. And when
Speaker 2: I say on the market, I mean guys that would
Speaker 2: realistically take the job. And I understand that Josh McDaniels
Speaker 2: is not perfect. He's not a good head coach. We
Speaker 2: know that, but just in terms of his offensive actimen,
Speaker 2: his experience, his experience running an offense, calling plays in
Speaker 2: an offense, I just think that you'd be hard pressed
Speaker 2: to find a better candidate that is available and that
Speaker 2: would take the gig. And I know that he has
Speaker 2: all sorts of ties, but to the New England area.
Speaker 2: His family is in New England, like he wants to.
Speaker 2: I think would much rather be home base in New
Speaker 2: England than anywhere else in the country. Yeah, those things
Speaker 2: are rare.
Speaker 1: That's the one thing I'd urge people with McDaniels, is.
Speaker 3: It.
Speaker 1: We talked about this a lot, Evan. There are some
Speaker 1: guys that are great coordinators and that's what they are.
Speaker 1: And that's the end of the sentence, right, And if
Speaker 1: there are reasons to hesitate about McDaniels, and I get it,
Speaker 1: and we've talked about them, he stunk as a head
Speaker 1: coach is not a reason to not hire him as
Speaker 1: a coordinator. That's because it's you're you're, it's a completely
Speaker 1: different job, and he was better as a coordinator. So
Speaker 1: I just I it is a little interesting that I
Speaker 1: brought him up. It may be, like you said something,
Speaker 1: just with the with the Belichick era and trying to
Speaker 1: move on a little bit. All right, let's take a
Speaker 1: call or are you good on the coordinators?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: You do?
Speaker 2: You want me to praise Joe Milton now or later?
Speaker 1: Hang on? Hang on, We're gonna get to Joe Milton.
Speaker 1: Let's take some call, in some emails. Then we'll get
Speaker 1: into prospects. Let's go to Nik in Australia. I gotta
Speaker 1: figure this thing out. Niek we got you. Hello, I
Speaker 1: got him Nick. Sorry, this is oh Jake. Okay, we
Speaker 1: got Jake, It says nieck On here Jake. How are
Speaker 1: we doing today?
Speaker 4: Not today?
Speaker 1: So tell you.
Speaker 4: It's a it's been a long time I've been pitching
Speaker 4: a call with But you guys on so early?
Speaker 1: What time is it called the cat?
Speaker 4: About eight thirty in the morning.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, so that's that's.
Speaker 4: So really, So I just want to give a big
Speaker 4: place to you guys, because you guys absolutely do an
Speaker 4: awesome job, especially this time of the year.
Speaker 1: Dang you.
Speaker 4: But yeah, on the coordinators that we're just talking about,
Speaker 4: I just missed the special teams who were talking about,
Speaker 4: but just wondering if we could use one of our
Speaker 4: to get us through this year.
Speaker 1: Sorry, say that again.
Speaker 4: The safe the special teams to coordinators, Yep, just seeing
Speaker 4: if we could get away with one of ours. Boar,
Speaker 4: do you reckon? We need to go outside of the
Speaker 4: building for special teams this year?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, they and thanks for the call, Nique. They went
Speaker 1: outside the building. They hired Jeremy Springer, but they are
Speaker 1: going to need an assistant, and I think they go
Speaker 1: outside the building for that as well. I don't think
Speaker 1: Cam acquardor Joe Judge is coming back from that.
Speaker 2: Joe Houston's going to Florida.
Speaker 1: Yeah he's gone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't see. I'm with you hundred percent that
Speaker 2: I don't see Cam a Corridor Joe Judge back here
Speaker 2: next year, certainly not as an assistant, right. I mean,
Speaker 2: you're not going to hire either one of those guys
Speaker 2: an assistant Special Teams coach. So they'll have somebody else there.
Speaker 2: I don't know who will be, but they'll have they'll
Speaker 2: have an assistant at least one for sure.
Speaker 1: All Right, we got a couple emails here. Is there
Speaker 1: a possible offensive coordinator rookie quarterback combination that would be
Speaker 1: exciting Evan. If they are going to run the McVeigh
Speaker 1: offense with Nick Hayley, who's the best quarterback fit for that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've been saying this whole time that that's Drake May.
Speaker 2: Drake May is the best system fit. I think for
Speaker 2: a lot of these traditional offenses. When I say traditional,
Speaker 2: the McVeigh offense, the Patriots old offense with McDaniels and O'Brien,
Speaker 2: those are not offense is typically where you're talking about
Speaker 2: a lot of off script stuff happening. Like there are
Speaker 2: obviously elements of that in every offense. And I'm not
Speaker 2: saying Stafford brock Purty like Jordan Love. Those guys move
Speaker 2: around and those guys make extended plays. But their offense
Speaker 2: is similar to the old Patriots offense and that one respect,
Speaker 2: and that is that they want quarterbacks that are going
Speaker 2: to throw from the pocket on time, with accuracy and
Speaker 2: set up yards after the catch, like it's a West
Speaker 2: Coast face system. The ball wants. You want the ball out.
Speaker 2: You want it on time, you want it accurately, and
Speaker 2: you want it leading guys down the field to run
Speaker 2: after the catch. So when you look at Caleb Williams,
Speaker 2: who wants to improvise, when you look at a Jayden
Speaker 2: Daniels who wants to throw deep and then also obviously
Speaker 2: uses legs, not great fits, I think Drake May between
Speaker 2: the numbers is probably one of the best quarterbacks over
Speaker 2: the last couple of years at throwing in the middle
Speaker 2: of the field. That's exactly where this offense lives. If
Speaker 2: you look at like the top five or seven quarterbacks
Speaker 2: in the league in terms of inbreaking routes, you know, crossers,
Speaker 2: dig patterns, slants, it's all McVay, Shanahan, Tree type of guys,
Speaker 2: Laflor type of guys. It's Stafford, it's Jordan Love, it's
Speaker 2: Brock Purty, it's to uh C J. Stroud. You know
Speaker 2: that's the way that this offense is run.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that was Riley with the question, by the way,
Speaker 1: on the email. Thanks to that most the other question
Speaker 1: draft related. So let's get into the Senior Bowl through
Speaker 1: two days of practice. You want to start with the quarterbacks.
Speaker 2: Let's start with the quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: I don't know what I've done. I think I've made
Speaker 1: a mistake. Maybe maybe I should not have exposed you
Speaker 1: to Joe Milton, because.
Speaker 2: I mean the Senior Bowl exposed me big time to
Speaker 2: Joe Milton.
Speaker 1: So I thought you were gonna be annoyed by Joe Milton.
Speaker 1: I did not think you were gonna take Joe Milton seriously.
Speaker 1: I don't know that I take Joe Milton seriously.
Speaker 2: I am taking him seriously.
Speaker 1: What has happened? What if you because to me? And
Speaker 1: and look, I'm trying to follow it on TV. The
Speaker 1: quarterbacks probably easy an other position. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: you've gotten yesterday. You definitely got the Joe Milton experience
Speaker 1: where he pipes a ball over the middle twenty five
Speaker 1: yards on a frozen rope, right into the tight end,
Speaker 1: hits a backflip, and then two plays later there's a
Speaker 1: guy standing stationary ten yards in front of him and
Speaker 1: he throws the ball ten feet over his head. That
Speaker 1: is the full on Joe Milton experience. I know he's
Speaker 1: he's crushed all the numbers in terms of ball velocity,
Speaker 1: spin rate that should be expected. He's breaking all the
Speaker 1: records on the scoreboard. He might break the scoreboard. We
Speaker 1: have to wait and see on that one if they
Speaker 1: ever actually let him throw the ball deep. But I
Speaker 1: don't know. I've more or less seen what I expected
Speaker 1: from Joe Milton, which again interesting. I don't know that
Speaker 1: I'm in on him. I just I find him fascinating.
Speaker 1: He's a fascinating player to me. But you seem to
Speaker 1: be willing to take it a step further.
Speaker 2: Okay, So here it's the same thing that you said
Speaker 2: last week. Like nobody is sitting here saying that the
Speaker 2: Patriots should take Joe Milton with a third overall pick.
Speaker 2: I'm not even saying that the Patriot should Joe Milton
Speaker 2: with the thirty fourth overall pick. But from what I've
Speaker 2: seen this week, you told me, Alex the very very
Speaker 2: first time that we talked about Joe Milton, if you
Speaker 2: need eighty yards to throw in eighty yards, if you
Speaker 2: need five yards to throw in eighty yards, right, the
Speaker 2: guy has a cannon. He has very little control of
Speaker 2: the ball, and he's all gas, no breaks, like, there's
Speaker 2: no touch, there's nothing like that. I actually think over
Speaker 2: the last couple of days, he has made it a
Speaker 2: point to show that he can read the short part
Speaker 2: of the field, and he can throw with some touch
Speaker 2: and some timing on the underneath stuff the short game,
Speaker 2: and he's done a decent job of doing it. You know,
Speaker 2: today I thought he threw probably the best pass of
Speaker 2: the entire day. And it wasn't even like this great
Speaker 2: downfield throw. He just threw a slant to a receiver
Speaker 2: where the post safety's coming down and closing down and
Speaker 2: he throws it like a little back shoulder. Jared Goff
Speaker 2: made the exact same throw in the NFC Championship game
Speaker 2: last weekend that everybody went Google Googaga over right. So
Speaker 2: those types of throws, I just didn't know Joe Milton
Speaker 2: had that in his bag. I knew he could throw
Speaker 2: at eighty yards. I knew he could throw the deep ball.
Speaker 2: I knew he was athletic, I knew he was mobile.
Speaker 2: But the fact that he was showing some ability to
Speaker 2: hit five, you know, a five yard slant, to show
Speaker 2: some ability to find the running back in the flat
Speaker 2: and hit a first down throw into the flat. Those
Speaker 2: types of things were not things that he did consistently
Speaker 2: well in college, and he did them well over the
Speaker 2: last two days. And you add that on top of
Speaker 2: the fact that he's got a bazooka as an arm,
Speaker 2: and now all of a sudden, you see, well, if
Speaker 2: he can be this consistent on the underneath stuff, then
Speaker 2: maybe there's really something there. So the comparison that I
Speaker 2: continue to use for him is day three Anthony Richardson.
Speaker 2: He's not as mobile, he's not as freakish, he's not
Speaker 2: an alien like Anthony Richardson was in the combine, but
Speaker 2: he has got a similar set of skills, a similar
Speaker 2: ball of clay, just maybe had a lesser to And
Speaker 2: if on the Patriots again, you have to him higher
Speaker 2: than the Joe Milton's of the world. So don't nobody
Speaker 2: take this as me saying they're gonna draft Joe Milton
Speaker 2: and all all our problems are fixed. But if they
Speaker 2: are going to let's say double dip, if they are
Speaker 2: going to sign a veteran quarterback and then maybe take
Speaker 2: one in the draft as like a developmental guy as
Speaker 2: a project, then I would much rather take a guy
Speaker 2: like Joe Milton and has some significant upside than take
Speaker 2: a guy like Michael Pratt who's just gonna be another
Speaker 2: Bailey Zappy. Right, So that's the way I look at it,
Speaker 2: he's got a really high ceiling. And those guys are
Speaker 2: I think are fun, they're and are worth developing. Maybe
Speaker 2: you end up finding out down the road that he
Speaker 2: can play and start in the league because of his
Speaker 2: physical school tools. Who knows.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean, look the throw you're talking about
Speaker 1: on the slant. There aren't that many quarterbacks that can
Speaker 1: make that throw because that window. The arm strength comes
Speaker 1: in there too. It's not you know, throw it, you
Speaker 1: need it five yards, third, eighty yards. It's kind of
Speaker 1: a hyperbole. He his arm strength is also impressive in
Speaker 1: the sense that there are some windows that most quarterbacks
Speaker 1: won't even touch that he can flirt with because I
Speaker 1: think they had his ball velossy like seventy six miles
Speaker 1: an hour.
Speaker 2: Right, that's so intriguing, Which is it when you watch
Speaker 2: these two Sorry to off, but like when you watch
Speaker 2: these two quarterbacks for the Patriots all year last year,
Speaker 2: Like we are just so programmed to watching quarterbacks that
Speaker 2: have no arm talent.
Speaker 1: No, but this is different. This isn't. This isn't going
Speaker 1: from a lack of ball velocity to the ball velocities
Speaker 1: normal and it looks fast. Seventy six miles an hour
Speaker 1: on a football. That's some I'll pull the numbers up here.
Speaker 1: I think that would be would make him one of
Speaker 1: the five hardest throwing quarterbacks in the league. I know
Speaker 1: Mahomes like touches eighty occasionally. If he really gets in
Speaker 1: when he touches eighty, it's it's it's different. There's windows
Speaker 1: available to him that are not available to other quarterbacks. Now,
Speaker 1: the flip side of that, and you say he's been
Speaker 1: good about it this week, is he has no problem
Speaker 1: testing those windows and that it's a dangerous game because
Speaker 1: it is still tight even if he can get it in.
Speaker 1: Sometimes they're not windows. He's going to be able to
Speaker 1: test consistently. In the NFL.
Speaker 2: He has been the most poised quarterback down here, which
Speaker 2: I think is absolutely shocking when you look at a
Speaker 2: guy like Pennix, a guy like Bo Nicks, even somebody
Speaker 2: like Spencer Rattler, all but mostly those first two who
Speaker 2: have had so much success in college, that have Heisman
Speaker 2: Trophy finalist on their resume, national Championship game appearance on
Speaker 2: their resume. The fact that Joe Milton has been the
Speaker 2: coolest guy on the field. You mentioned the backflip so
Speaker 2: he doesn't. Yesterday he does a backflip. Today he threw
Speaker 2: a ball into the flat and kind of like, you know,
Speaker 2: did like a basketball, like you know, nailed it, type
Speaker 2: of like shot motion. It doesn't matter at the and
Speaker 2: a grand scheme of things, but I just kind of
Speaker 2: like the swagger.
Speaker 1: I just kind of like he he that's a guy
Speaker 1: that loves putting on a show, and there is there
Speaker 1: is something to be said for that. So I'm trying
Speaker 1: to find the numbers here and I can't find from
Speaker 1: this regular season, but the draft last year CJ. Stroud
Speaker 1: and Anthony Richardson topped off at sixty two miles an hour.
Speaker 1: Patrick Mahomes they have is over sixty miles an hour.
Speaker 1: So say Josh Allen's at sixty two, and it says
Speaker 1: that Mahomes was a little fast in him, so maybe
Speaker 1: it's sixty two in a decimal. Joe Milton again seventy
Speaker 1: six miles an hour.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just you look at this just the field.
Speaker 2: The difference between what the Patriots have now where we
Speaker 2: all are clamoring for is somebody that just has the
Speaker 2: physical tools and the addability, mobility, arm talent, and then
Speaker 2: just it's a little bit of swagger. It's just it's
Speaker 2: it was a much different feel. And you mentioned how
Speaker 2: his ability to drive the ball allows him to access
Speaker 2: some windows that other quarterbacks can't access. And I feel
Speaker 2: like over the last couple of years, the you know,
Speaker 2: ten to twenty yard range in the middle of the field,
Speaker 2: or even like the fifteen to twenty five in the NFL,
Speaker 2: where you have to fit the deep dig in, you
Speaker 2: have to fit the seam, you have to fit these
Speaker 2: throws into these tight windows. The quarterbacks that they currently
Speaker 2: have on the roster just don't have the velocity to
Speaker 2: be able to do that. They can't drive a ball
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five yards down the field into a closing
Speaker 2: NFL sized window, and this guy can. So I'm intrigued.
Speaker 2: I don't know what to call it. I'm just intrigued.
Speaker 1: I know intrigued. Intrigued is different than in And yeah,
Speaker 1: so the record for the combine, and we'll see what
Speaker 1: Milton does at the combine. The record for the combine
Speaker 1: sixty two miles an hour. Joe Milton's seventy six point
Speaker 1: four miles an hour initial air speed, So maybe that's
Speaker 1: a different measurement, but yeah, all right, moving off a
Speaker 1: Joe Milton. We'll get to Penix and Knicks last. But
Speaker 1: you mentioned Michael Pratt hasn't really impressed you. I know
Speaker 1: you said you've been impressed with Spencer Rattler.
Speaker 2: A little bit. Yeah. Spencer Rattler I think has probably
Speaker 2: been the the in terms of getting through the reads,
Speaker 2: throwing on time, throwing in rhythm. He's been the most
Speaker 2: comfortable in that respect, I would say, in these two practices,
Speaker 2: and he's controlled the ball pretty well. He basically has
Speaker 2: one glaring mistake in two days. There's a bad interception
Speaker 2: towards the end of practice yesterday where he was throwing
Speaker 2: a crosser from the three by one side and he
Speaker 2: just lost the backside corner who had zone eyes and
Speaker 2: just read it and jumped the crosser from the backside.
Speaker 2: But in general, I think he's thrown with good accuracy.
Speaker 2: I think he's latered some good throws, especially like whole shots,
Speaker 2: corner rats, things like that into cover two voids. And
Speaker 2: he's done a really nice job of you know, getting
Speaker 2: off one, getting to two, getting to three in the progress,
Speaker 2: which was something in college that I don't think he
Speaker 2: did particularly well. He was somebody that did tend to
Speaker 2: hold the football a little bit and struggle with processing speed,
Speaker 2: so he's looked comfortable. I think the one thing that
Speaker 2: that is a shame almost with him is that he's
Speaker 2: only six feet tall. And I'm just I mean.
Speaker 1: He doesn't even look he looks small, and I don't
Speaker 1: know why he didn't look as small playing in college.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's the jersey or whatever. He
Speaker 1: looks small.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know about you, Alex, but I'm I'm
Speaker 2: just out on quarterbacks that are under six foot two.
Speaker 2: I just I have no time for it. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: I maybe that tight tightest, I don't know what to
Speaker 2: call it, but I just give me Joe Milton over
Speaker 2: Spencer Ratler all day, every day, simply just because the
Speaker 2: guy has got the size and the talent and all
Speaker 2: that stuff to maybe develop into an NFL starter. But
Speaker 2: I have been intrigued by Spencer Rattler as well, just
Speaker 2: another one of those worth round double dip you know,
Speaker 2: upside type of potential guys. He's spun the ball pretty
Speaker 2: well here this week, and like I said, he's made
Speaker 2: some nice throws pretty much all over the field and
Speaker 2: really hasn't made a ton of clearing mistakes. So it's
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a good thing or a
Speaker 2: bad thing that Spencer Rattler and Joe Milton have probably
Speaker 2: been the two best quarterbacks and mobile through the first
Speaker 2: two days. But that's just the reality, which I guess
Speaker 2: we can get to. You know what that means for
Speaker 2: Penix and bon Nicks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think Pennix has been fine. I don't know
Speaker 1: that he's been good or bad. I think he's been
Speaker 1: more or less you expect. Again, the big thing for
Speaker 1: him is handling pressure, which is something he's just not
Speaker 1: dealing with. You're not dealing with in a setting like this.
Speaker 1: Bonnicks had a rough day today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, bo Nicks has been rough.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he dropped a snap, He had a couple of misses.
Speaker 1: He also had one I don't know if you could
Speaker 1: tell this live, but on TV they kind of had
Speaker 1: him miked up and he was having a lot of
Speaker 1: trouble relaying the plays with the because in college you
Speaker 1: don't have the plays called into the headset. You get
Speaker 1: a hand signal from the sideline and that translates. He
Speaker 1: kind of struggled with that one a little bit. So
Speaker 1: I came into the week saying, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know how much bo Nix has to win or lose
Speaker 1: sixty one start to you more or less know who
Speaker 1: he is. It hasn't been a great week for him, though.
Speaker 2: No, it hasn't. I agree with you one hundred percent
Speaker 2: on Penis. I think that he's been fine. I don't
Speaker 2: think that he's hurt his stock. I don't think he's
Speaker 2: helped his stock. I think he's made a couple of
Speaker 2: good throws. I don't think he's made any real glaring errors, No,
Speaker 2: like terrible turnovers or anything like that. The one thing
Speaker 2: I would say with Penix just I was looking forward
Speaker 2: to watching him live and seeing how much his arm, talent,
Speaker 2: and his velocity and all that kind of stuff look live.
Speaker 2: I haven't been dazzled by the ball velo or anything
Speaker 2: like that. But again, I agree with you that I
Speaker 2: think he's been right down the middle, and he'll probably
Speaker 2: come away from this week with everybody in the same
Speaker 2: exact thing they thought about him before they came into
Speaker 2: the Senior Bowl, which is, if he clears out medically,
Speaker 2: he's probably a top fifty pick. If he doesn't, then
Speaker 2: who knows how far he's gonna fall down, but it's
Speaker 2: gonna because of the medical stuff, not anything to do
Speaker 2: with his play with Nicks. He's been bad. I mean,
Speaker 2: like he's just been downright bad. I think the biggest
Speaker 2: concern with him is not necessarily timing and processing decision making.
Speaker 2: His ball accuracy has just been all over the place,
Speaker 2: Like he just hasn't made throw an accurate passes.
Speaker 1: And that's supposed to be his carrying trait is supposed
Speaker 1: to be a short intermediate accuracy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's exactly And like I saw when I
Speaker 2: watched him on film, like some of the deep ball accuracy,
Speaker 2: his deep ball is not perfect. He puts air under it,
Speaker 2: so guys like Troy Franklin could like run under it
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. But he's not like a pinpoint
Speaker 2: deep ball guy like Pennix's. But he was really good
Speaker 2: in the short and intermediate areas, and those are the
Speaker 2: places where he struggled the most. Here is in that
Speaker 2: inside the twenty yard range. Let's call it Day one. He's,
Speaker 2: you know, got on a bootleg action Tess Walker is
Speaker 2: crossing over the middle of the field. He's got him
Speaker 2: wide open, and he misses him by like five yards.
Speaker 2: He missed a skinny post this today where he just
Speaker 2: the guy's just wide open in a middlefield, open coverage,
Speaker 2: just splitting the safeties and he just throws it behind him.
Speaker 2: Like those types of misses, you just you wonder if
Speaker 2: you just chalk it up to Senior Bowl anomally, I
Speaker 2: think that's basically what this is all about, is confirming
Speaker 2: or not confirming your priors. But it's definitely something that
Speaker 2: you have to think about it now and maybe even
Speaker 2: go back and revisit some of his game film and say,
Speaker 2: is he just did I miss this the first time
Speaker 2: around that he's not very good at throwing let's say
Speaker 2: from like the five to fifteen yard range, or is
Speaker 2: that something that was he just had a bad week.
Speaker 2: You know, there's two practices. You're not really familiar with
Speaker 2: the receivers, you're not familiar with the offense. So maybe
Speaker 2: it's just a bad week, you know, who knows. But
Speaker 2: it has been a big, big struggle for him with
Speaker 2: his accurs He's been all over the place in terms
Speaker 2: of his ball placement, and that that's a big thing
Speaker 2: because in college not Oregon offense, and the same thing
Speaker 2: with Justin Herbert, it was all screens, and it was
Speaker 2: all vertical routes, right, Like, that's the Oregon offense. It's
Speaker 2: either you're throwing the ball out the line of scrimmage
Speaker 2: or you're throwing vertical shots. But in the NFL, the
Speaker 2: intermediate stuff is where like ninety percent of quarterbacks make
Speaker 2: their money, right, that's right. That's such a much bigger
Speaker 2: area of emphasis in the league than it is in
Speaker 2: college because in college it's these air raid, wide open
Speaker 2: schemes and they're just chucking and ducking. In the NFL,
Speaker 2: it's that's in structure. Play is short and intermediate, Like
Speaker 2: that's how you really move the ball in the NFL.
Speaker 2: So if that's a part of his game that maybe
Speaker 2: we just didn't see a ton of volume in that
Speaker 2: in college, and now that he's putting in an NFL
Speaker 2: offense in the Senior Bowl, it's coming out more and
Speaker 2: more that he can't hit those throws. That really hurts
Speaker 2: him in terms of his ability to be a starter
Speaker 2: in the league.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and look, I don't think he's gonna fall behind
Speaker 1: JJ McCarthy or Michael Pratt or Joe Milton. But when
Speaker 1: you're talking about is he worth a first round investment.
Speaker 1: That was I think the question he had an answer
Speaker 1: this week. And you know he's back in the state
Speaker 1: of Alabama. He's looking a lot more like Auburn bo
Speaker 1: Nicks than he is Oregon Bonnicks. Real quick, you touched
Speaker 1: on Pratt. You haven't loved him. I haven't either. He
Speaker 1: just looks overwhelmed, and I think the biggest thing with
Speaker 1: him was experienced, kind of like Nicks, where he's kind
Speaker 1: of your day two or day three bow Knicks however
Speaker 1: you want. He's the next tier version of bow Knicks,
Speaker 1: where he's a guy that is good from the pocket,
Speaker 1: is an accurate passer, is like a little athletic, but
Speaker 1: you're not gonna build a run package around him. He's
Speaker 1: not a guy that's gonna overly test the deep part
Speaker 1: of the field or tight windows or anything. He's just
Speaker 1: supposed to be consistent kind of quarterback you can set
Speaker 1: your watch too, and we haven't seen that from him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would agree with that. He's he's been overwhelmed
Speaker 2: would be the word I would use. He's thrown it
Speaker 2: some some balls into some team meetings. A couple guys
Speaker 2: have gotten hands on passes from him, and it hasn't
Speaker 2: looked overly consistent. I did think today in seven on
Speaker 2: seven he started to open it up a little bit more.
Speaker 2: That's one thing that I've been a little disappointed with
Speaker 2: all the quarterbacks, honestly, is when you get into seven
Speaker 2: on seven, can we not throw check downs in seven
Speaker 2: on seven? Like let's like, let's see you push the
Speaker 2: ball down the field a little bit. I thought that
Speaker 2: Pratt made a couple of downfield throws in seven. The
Speaker 2: one he missed on a go ball. You overthrew it
Speaker 2: just a little bit. But the only guy that has
Speaker 2: consistently made it a point to really try to push
Speaker 2: the ball down the field consistently is Rattler, and.
Speaker 1: You know that's how he plays. I think Milton is
Speaker 1: probably trying to prove some things and that's why he's
Speaker 1: not doing it. Spencer Rattler has never seen a deep
Speaker 1: an open deep receiver. He didn't think he could get
Speaker 1: the ball to and most of the time he can't.
Speaker 1: But that's just kind of the way. That's his whole
Speaker 1: mentality is he's a he's a big play hunter. That's
Speaker 1: that's what he does. Yeah, I just un Ratler real quick.
Speaker 1: I'm curious how he's interviewing because that's gonna be a
Speaker 1: big thing for him. There were some questions about his
Speaker 1: attitude coming out of high school, and uh, the stuff
Speaker 1: that we're not going to see I think is bigger
Speaker 1: for him this week than what he does on the field.
Speaker 2: Any So much of Spencer, really quick, so much of
Speaker 2: Spencer Rattler that you tell me about because you know
Speaker 2: so much more about these guys, like in that respect,
Speaker 2: is so much of it. It reminds me of Jared Stidham.
Speaker 2: I just don't think that that's a good thing.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know that's an interesting comp I
Speaker 1: politically has the talent, but does he have the drive?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Like that's the that's what you know. I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't think the problem is that Rattler doesn't have
Speaker 1: the drive. I think he enjoys football. To me, it's more.
Speaker 1: I mean, you go back and you watch the Elite
Speaker 1: eleven documentary when he was in and look, it's when
Speaker 1: he was in high school. It was five six years ago,
Speaker 1: Like has he grown up? It's very possible, but there's
Speaker 1: some questions about what kind of teammate it is he
Speaker 1: is and how guys rally around him, and does he
Speaker 1: alienate guys, does he rub guys the wrong way? That
Speaker 1: sort of thing. I don't think like he definitely cares
Speaker 1: about football. I wouldn't say he's a guy that doesn't
Speaker 1: care about football. He's not I used to use with
Speaker 1: Stidham the he does. I don't think he has the
Speaker 1: Alex Moran thing right, but it's there's just some questions
Speaker 1: about does he rub people the wrong way, how is
Speaker 1: he in the locker room? Things like that, And again
Speaker 1: we won't see that he's just so and he's very small.
Speaker 1: He's very small. There's some like the negative elements of
Speaker 1: Baker's evaluation, Baker Mayfield's evaluation. I think you see a
Speaker 1: lot of Spencer Ratler, another Oklahoma guy by the way,
Speaker 1: just real quick, I thought Carter Bradley had the throw
Speaker 1: of the day today, that deep out he threw it
Speaker 1: on the move. That was pretty much it for him
Speaker 1: and Sam Hartman in terms of notable moments. I think
Speaker 1: it's funny Sam Hartman shaved his beard to look younger
Speaker 1: because he doesn't want scouts to think he's old, because
Speaker 1: he looked like thirty five when he had that beard,
Speaker 1: and he's like twenty six, twenty seven years old or anyway,
Speaker 1: But any thoughts on Hartman or Bradley.
Speaker 2: Bradley's not bad, but he's an NFL backup, you know,
Speaker 2: he's I don't see him as anything more than that.
Speaker 2: But he's made some really good reads, I would say,
Speaker 2: in these practices. Like you mentioned the the out round
Speaker 2: of the corner route that he threw today. It wasn't
Speaker 2: the best most accurate pass in the world, No, it
Speaker 2: made the receiver had to go to the ground to
Speaker 2: make the catch, but it was the right raid on
Speaker 2: the plane. I'll give him credit for that. I think
Speaker 2: he's done a nice job of reading the field here
Speaker 2: this week. I have no thoughts on the Notre Dame cornerback.
Speaker 2: We can move on from that.
Speaker 1: All right, Let's suck because we got a couple of calls.
Speaker 1: We were talking about the quarterbacks. So let's take these
Speaker 1: calls and then we'll get to the other positions here.
Speaker 1: Let's go to make in Virginia. I gotta remember how
Speaker 1: to take this call. Jake, Do we got youa what
Speaker 1: do I hit? I hit? Answer?
Speaker 2: You hit the Was it like green? Right now?
Speaker 1: I click it again? All right? Jake and Virginia, we
Speaker 1: got you. Yeah, there we are right figured it out, Jake, How.
Speaker 3: We do good?
Speaker 2: Good?
Speaker 3: A couple questions for you guys. If we assuming we
Speaker 3: take quarterback first, I guess it was our third overall pick.
Speaker 3: What do you think of some names like the tackle
Speaker 3: from Byu and maybe like Joe and polk Er Xavier Legett,
Speaker 3: like in the do you think those guys would be
Speaker 3: available in the third round? And do you think they'd
Speaker 3: be scheme fits?
Speaker 1: All right, let's let's touch on the get and we
Speaker 1: can use that transition to the wide receivers here for
Speaker 1: the There's gonna be options. I don't know about those
Speaker 1: specific players. There's gonna be options at thirty four, at
Speaker 1: sixty eight. I think there's some eyes you look at.
Speaker 1: Do you move up from thirty four on the back
Speaker 1: end of the first round? A guy like Talisa Fuanga
Speaker 1: if he falls, would be a guy that he forgets
Speaker 1: say it the mid twenties. Do you move up for him?
Speaker 1: Patrick Paul? Do you move up for a guy like
Speaker 1: that in the mid twenties? But I just said we
Speaker 1: were gonna do receivers, and then I dipped in the
Speaker 1: tackles receivers. Xavier le get did not have a good
Speaker 1: day yesterday. I don't know what was up with him,
Speaker 1: Like he's open, but he's still like putting on moves
Speaker 1: on air. I don't know if he wanted to show
Speaker 1: coaches that he had that in his bag, whatever that was.
Speaker 1: But I thought today you saw much more of the
Speaker 1: kind of dominant catch point receiver you were hoping to
Speaker 1: see from him this week.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's not my cup of tea, you know that
Speaker 2: I want. I would much rather take the Roman Wilson's,
Speaker 2: the lad Mcconkeye's, the pure solos of the world, Ricky
Speaker 2: piersof from Florida. Like those guys run rouse, those guys
Speaker 2: know how to get open. Those guys are quick, they're heady.
Speaker 2: They're guys that are nuanced with their movement. Xavier Legett
Speaker 2: is a bully receiver that is pretty good at the catchpoint. Now,
Speaker 2: I'll give him this, These practices are not for Xavier
Speaker 2: leget Like Xavier Lagette. I assume he's gonna play in
Speaker 2: the game on Saturday, and those are the opportunities that
Speaker 2: he's gonna get to catch and run with the football
Speaker 2: to win it. The catchpoints down the field and just
Speaker 2: bully guys with his physicality, He's not gonna impress anybody
Speaker 2: in one on ones, Like that's just not his game.
Speaker 2: But what I saw from him, I feel pretty strongly
Speaker 2: that I think in such a deep wide receiver class,
Speaker 2: it's just not my cup of tea. Like there's so
Speaker 2: many other options at that point in the draft that
Speaker 2: I just don't see the need for it. I texted
Speaker 2: you this comp, and I feel pretty good about Leaviscus
Speaker 2: Chnault as a comp for him. Is he gonna be
Speaker 2: able to run routes?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Is he gonna be able to get open in more
Speaker 2: than a couple of different ways? Is he beyond a
Speaker 2: scheme touch guy? And he's also only came in at
Speaker 2: like six' one or like I think he actually was
Speaker 2: like six feet in in a quarter or something like that,
Speaker 2: So he's not overly tall. Like it's not like we're
Speaker 2: you know, we're talking about like a six four or
Speaker 2: six to three receiver. I just it's not not my brand. Now,
Speaker 2: if you want to tell me that he's like discount
Speaker 2: Deebo Samuel, then like maybe you could like make that argument.
Speaker 2: Because he is explosive. He is a huge, huge guy,
Speaker 2: Like he looks like a running back, big running back
Speaker 2: linebacker type, but he just doesn't run very routes very
Speaker 2: well at all.
Speaker 1: And then the other ex receiver who there were a
Speaker 1: couple of these like true X guys you were looking
Speaker 1: at coming into the week, could they have big weeks?
Speaker 1: Was sorry? Was tes Walker, who, Yeah, I think had
Speaker 1: another rough day to day.
Speaker 2: Right overall, I thought he was better in one on ones,
Speaker 2: had a couple of good reps, but I think the
Speaker 2: biggest issue with him, oh, I guess two issues, But
Speaker 2: the real biggest issue is he's had a ton of drops.
Speaker 2: Like he's been dropping passes left and right. I think
Speaker 2: I had him down for three or four drops today
Speaker 2: between you know, one on ones and team drills, Like,
Speaker 2: what's up with that? Because he has pretty good body control.
Speaker 2: I think he's got a pretty good catch radius for
Speaker 2: an outside guy, but he's really struggled this week with drops.
Speaker 2: And I think he had three this year at UNC,
Speaker 2: which isn't a ton, but the year before that he
Speaker 2: had seven, which might have been a little bit more
Speaker 2: indicative of what we've seen. That was a weird thing
Speaker 2: that I wasn't expecting to see from him. And he
Speaker 2: hasn't created a ton of separation either on a lot
Speaker 2: of his routes, so he's been wearing coverage a little bit.
Speaker 2: He's been struggling with drops. It's not been a good
Speaker 2: week for him.
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this then at the X position,
Speaker 1: and this guy may be more busy, but I feel
Speaker 1: like he's shown X skills and he had a much
Speaker 1: better day today. Ricky Piersoll seems to be the guy
Speaker 1: that if you're looking for that like six foot plus
Speaker 1: catch point winning dominant WIE receiver, I think Ricky Piersall
Speaker 1: has probably been the best of those receivers this week.
Speaker 2: I really like Ricky Piersall. I think he's quick too,
Speaker 2: like I think you're gonna get in and out of
Speaker 2: breaks and run routes. He ran a really nice whip
Speaker 2: route from the slot and or maybe it was like
Speaker 2: a condensed split today. I think he's got a little
Speaker 2: bit more route running than those other guys do. He's
Speaker 2: not as stiff. He can he can get in out
Speaker 2: of the break him. Roman Wilson obviously has been fantastic.
Speaker 2: Ladd McConkey Uh from Georgia had a really good day yesterday.
Speaker 1: We'll get to your shifty guys, don't worry. Do you
Speaker 1: want to jump to that now?
Speaker 2: No, I'm just saying, you know, I'm just you know,
Speaker 2: I have to get to my guys. Well, no, I was.
Speaker 1: My next thing for you is going to be okay,
Speaker 1: go ahead, tell us about Roman Wilson. Get it all out.
Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah, Roman Wilson. You know, I really liked
Speaker 2: Roman Wilson coming into this and he's done nothing but
Speaker 2: but proved me right, which is always good to feel
Speaker 2: when you watch the film and you're like, this guy
Speaker 2: is a little bit underrated and then he comes in
Speaker 2: and has a week like this. I still get so
Speaker 2: many any Aman Rossaint Brown vibes from the way that
Speaker 2: he moves, in the way that he runs routes, just
Speaker 2: silky smooth, efficient, quick, great hands. Made that one handed
Speaker 2: catch today at the end of practice that I know
Speaker 2: is making the rounds like he's just been as advertised,
Speaker 2: if not even better. And it makes you wonder if
Speaker 2: he played in an offense, you know, if he played
Speaker 2: in Washington's offense, for example, right where they're not where
Speaker 2: they're not running the ball a thousand times like they
Speaker 2: do at Michigan. Are we talking about Roman Wilson in
Speaker 2: a much different light. He just wasn't in an offense
Speaker 2: that allowed him to showcase these things that he's doing
Speaker 2: here at the Senior Bowl. So that's been really fun
Speaker 2: to watch. And Alam McConkie wasn't as good today as
Speaker 2: he was yesterday and one on ones, but another one
Speaker 2: of those guys that just knows how to get open
Speaker 2: and understands angles and you know, stems and leverage things
Speaker 2: like that. That's really heady like that, and you know
Speaker 2: to give you one though, one bully ball kind of
Speaker 2: outside hyper. Jerry Rice's son is Benton, kind of been
Speaker 2: kind of impressive. Brendan Rice from usc Is. Jerry Rice's
Speaker 2: son doesn't play like his father at all. Like he's
Speaker 2: like a big six ' two sixty three perimeter receiver.
Speaker 2: Yesterday was like all catch point stuff. He was making
Speaker 2: a lot of really great catches on contested catches down
Speaker 2: the field. Today he separated a little bit on some
Speaker 2: routes though, and I'm intrigued by him if you're looking
Speaker 2: for more of that outside guy. I think Pearsall can
Speaker 2: play on the outside, but it is probably more of
Speaker 2: like a move piece, whereas Lad mcconkee, I think could
Speaker 2: probably you know, if Piersoll is like a fifty to
Speaker 2: fifty guy inside outside, Lad mcconkeye's probably closer to like
Speaker 2: sixty five forty five. Uh, you know in terms of
Speaker 2: that zerole how.
Speaker 1: About roll then how Yeah, because you compare him to
Speaker 1: Alman Ross Saint Brown, but I feel like he has
Speaker 1: more in May. I don't know. Saint Brown could maybe
Speaker 1: play on the outside too. I mean he's in the scheme,
Speaker 1: he's in a Detroit and that he's him out of
Speaker 1: the slot and he's a weapon there for them. But
Speaker 1: I feel like Roman Wilson can be an outside guy.
Speaker 1: Maybe not one hundred percent of the time, but I
Speaker 1: feel like he can, you know, sixty forty.
Speaker 2: I just think that his ideal role is playing off
Speaker 2: the line and running him out of like bunches and
Speaker 2: stacks and things like that, where he's just gonna be
Speaker 2: able to just have a ton of space to maneuver
Speaker 2: and work with. He's a really difficult guy to cover
Speaker 2: when he has a two way go, like if he
Speaker 2: could go in or out like you're you're screwed, like
Speaker 2: you can't. It's really difficult to cover guys like that
Speaker 2: that are so nuanced and shifty, So I think that
Speaker 2: his ideal role is probably still playing, you know, off
Speaker 2: the line, in that Z flanker role. But I saw him,
Speaker 2: you know, win some verticals today and yesterday. I didn't
Speaker 2: necessarily catch that many of them, but I saw him,
Speaker 2: you know, testing DB's and things like that over the top.
Speaker 2: So I'm not ruling it out that he could play
Speaker 2: a little bit on the outside. But just think of
Speaker 2: the way that you know, a team like the Lions
Speaker 2: use armand Ross Saint Brown, the way the Rams have
Speaker 2: historically used their receivers like Pukakua and h Cooper cup
Speaker 2: just off the line, out of stacks, out of bunches,
Speaker 2: setting picks for him, setting rubs for them, those types
Speaker 2: of things I think Almah and Ross Saint Brown is
Speaker 2: so good at. And I that's why I see so
Speaker 2: much Roman Wilson, you know, so much Aman Rod and
Speaker 2: Romin Wilson. So not not necessarily like gonna run a
Speaker 2: four to three either, Right, He's probably gonna be a
Speaker 2: guy that's if he runs anything faster than a four
Speaker 2: or five, then he's then he's really in a great time.
Speaker 1: I think he could get into the four fource. He
Speaker 1: looks pretty fast to.
Speaker 2: Me, If he does that, then he's I think he's
Speaker 2: really like going to be in the top fifty.
Speaker 1: Conversation that wouldn't surprise me by the time we're all
Speaker 1: sudden done. Yeah, So I think he is. He like
Speaker 1: a four four seven four four eight guy That wouldn't
Speaker 1: be the most surprising to me. Another guy and I
Speaker 1: have one more receiver I want to ask you about,
Speaker 1: and then I don't know if you have anybody else
Speaker 1: you want to touch on? Rumor has it runs a
Speaker 1: four to four or at least did in high school,
Speaker 1: And that's Johnny Wilson, that's I think. So he measured
Speaker 1: it at I think six six two thirty five, right,
Speaker 1: so I got to bring those measurements down a little bit.
Speaker 1: That's the same size as Joe Milton. He really is
Speaker 1: the Joe Milton of wide receivers. Johnny Wilson, they were
Speaker 1: talking about him maybe having to move to tight end
Speaker 1: in the NFL, But I think he went out today
Speaker 1: and reminded people why he's a projected top fifty pick.
Speaker 1: A guy that big should not move that nimbly, And
Speaker 1: yesterday he's kind of trimping over his feet a little bit.
Speaker 1: Today he was really good one on ones, and one
Speaker 1: on ones are not usually favorable to the six foot five,
Speaker 1: two hundred and thirty pound receiver.
Speaker 2: I don't know what he is, but he's but he's intriguing.
Speaker 1: He's wide receiver Joe Milton. So the he measured in
Speaker 1: at uh six sixth oh no, wow, he did check
Speaker 1: in at two thirty seven. Okay, so six six. He's
Speaker 1: bigger than some of the tight ends. If I look
Speaker 1: at this, he's bigger than He's not bigger waight wise
Speaker 1: than any of the tight ends. They're at least two forty.
Speaker 2: But okay, so is he and I and I know
Speaker 2: that right now that this is maybe like a sour
Speaker 2: comparison from when it's come up from the year he
Speaker 2: had last year at the Patriots. But is he Mike
Speaker 2: ASICKI because that's sort of how I feel and that's
Speaker 2: not not no.
Speaker 1: But I think he's much care what if he runs
Speaker 1: a four to four?
Speaker 2: Oh so you think he's like DK Metcalf.
Speaker 1: Supposedly, the like college football people who track this like
Speaker 1: what what we are to the draft, The people in
Speaker 1: college football who do that with high school recruits claim
Speaker 1: he was running like four four, not in four fourths,
Speaker 1: like four four four four oh that he was running
Speaker 1: a four four oh in high school.
Speaker 2: If he puts down anything like that, then then maybe
Speaker 2: I'll I'll change that compy just the way. I'm just
Speaker 2: confused as to like what exactly how I would vision
Speaker 2: his ideal NFL role because I watched him this week
Speaker 2: and he's.
Speaker 1: Four four two. He ran a four to four to
Speaker 1: two supposedly supposedly he ran a four four to two
Speaker 1: in high school.
Speaker 2: I just feel like he kind of struggled a little
Speaker 2: bit with not necessarily stacking defenders but then like pulling
Speaker 2: away from them in the second and third phase down
Speaker 2: the field. I thought, I don't know, I'm intrigued by
Speaker 2: the skill set though, Like they're not that many guys
Speaker 2: that are that big, that move that well. You know,
Speaker 2: he moves like a wide receiver, but he's built like
Speaker 2: a tight end, which is why I kind of use
Speaker 2: the Kasiki type because I don't think that he's he's
Speaker 2: not shifty right for his.
Speaker 1: But he kind of is is. I don't know, I
Speaker 1: think he look, he's not Julian Edelman.
Speaker 2: No, no, but relatively speaking for a guy that's six six,
Speaker 2: two thirty seven.
Speaker 1: I think he moves pretty well. And he's also I mean,
Speaker 1: you're not gonna line him up in line, You're not,
Speaker 1: because he's not physical. You're gonna pu him at the Like,
Speaker 1: I don't what would you call a tight end that
Speaker 1: ex exclusively lines up at the X? Is that a
Speaker 1: tight end or is that a wide receiver?
Speaker 2: I see, I see him. I agree I that he's
Speaker 2: definitely not gonna put his hand in the dirt ye
Speaker 2: at any time in his NFL career. So like maybe
Speaker 2: he's more of like a jumbo slot, you know, I
Speaker 2: just don't know if he's necessarily.
Speaker 1: But it's not that kind of route runner.
Speaker 2: But is he like a guy that can run like
Speaker 2: seams and in cuts? Like yeah, I so.
Speaker 1: Maybe trying to tab him with the position is dumb,
Speaker 1: Like he's gonna have to you. You're drafting, You're drafting
Speaker 1: Johnny Wilson, I think, and these are these are my
Speaker 1: favorite kind of players in the draft. And Evan, you
Speaker 1: hear me talk about this all the time, the guys
Speaker 1: that you know, Roman Wilson is a really good player. Right,
Speaker 1: But like you just said, I'm and Ross Saint Brown,
Speaker 1: Like you're gonna find Roman Wilson. A guy like Roman
Speaker 1: Wilson in most drafts doesn't mean he's not a good player,
Speaker 1: doesn't mean Patrick didn't take him. But there's only so
Speaker 1: many skills sets to go around Johnny Wilson. You're not
Speaker 1: gonna find Johnny Wilson any other year. Like, if you
Speaker 1: see that guy, you draft him, and you have a
Speaker 1: plan specifically built for Johnny Wilson, we are going to
Speaker 1: use him like this. I don't think he's a guy
Speaker 1: you're drafting and saying, all right, we're gonna put him
Speaker 1: in this pre existing role we have in our offense,
Speaker 1: because I don't think that role exists in an NFL
Speaker 1: offense right now.
Speaker 2: I just look at him, and this is not a knock,
Speaker 2: but I just look at him, and I say, how
Speaker 2: great would it be to have this guy running the
Speaker 2: seam in my offense right stretching the middle of the field,
Speaker 2: running the seam. Throw him, throw the ball up to him,
Speaker 2: and let him play basketball that you know, in the
Speaker 2: middle of the field, right, Like whether it's high pointing it,
Speaker 2: back shoulder seams, like all the type of stuff. I
Speaker 2: just see that as a I don't know if he's
Speaker 2: a true X. I like that role. But regardless, he's
Speaker 2: got skills that are rare, you know, for a guy
Speaker 2: that size, and I'm willing to at least like give
Speaker 2: it a chance. You know, worst case scenario, he's like
Speaker 2: Scottie Washington or something like that. Best scenario, he turns
Speaker 2: out to be somebody that can really contribue.
Speaker 1: I think, I mean ceiling Ceiling is DK like again,
Speaker 1: that big, that athletic. Now the knock it. You may
Speaker 1: be asking why he's not a first time pick, raving
Speaker 1: about him. His hands are suspect, and it's funny because.
Speaker 2: Well, that's why I feel like I struggle with him
Speaker 2: as an ex because I don't but you know, it
Speaker 2: doesn't really win that at the catch point.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. I think he does win at
Speaker 1: the catchpoint. To me, he is he He drops the
Speaker 1: ball when he's open, like he'll go up and win
Speaker 1: fifty to fifty balls. But when he's running like a
Speaker 1: slant and the defender loses him and he's all alone,
Speaker 1: those are the ones to me, he drops like they're
Speaker 1: just focus drops. And I think that's coachable. It doesn't
Speaker 1: mean you'll automatically fix it. But he's he is weird
Speaker 1: it's really weird with him because it is such a
Speaker 1: unique skill set and so much of what we do
Speaker 1: is based on, Hey, this guy can be this player.
Speaker 1: This guy can be this player.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Somebody said tall or heavier Quinton Johnson for Johnny Wilson.
Speaker 1: How do you feel about that because you didn't like her,
Speaker 1: you didn't like Quinton Johnson.
Speaker 2: I'm not a Quinton Johnson guy. I love players like
Speaker 2: Johnny Wilson too, because I feel like it's a challenge,
Speaker 2: like find a way to use this guy because he's
Speaker 2: a unique player. But at the same time, when you
Speaker 2: get into those types of players, sometimes there is no
Speaker 2: way to use him, right. There is no way to
Speaker 2: really maximize it, and he doesn't really have a position,
Speaker 2: and he's not really great enough at one thing to
Speaker 2: highlight this one trade or whatever. So there's a chance,
Speaker 2: you know, he's a boomer bus player to me because
Speaker 2: of that, Like there's a chance that he just doesn't
Speaker 2: really have a position in the NFL.
Speaker 1: Any other receivers stand out to you at Jamari Thrash
Speaker 1: from Louisville's had a couple of good days. Ania Smith
Speaker 1: is kind of the day three shifty slot receiver. I
Speaker 1: think he's a fun player. Luke McCaffrey, we already talked
Speaker 1: about Brendon Rice, who's been the better family member of
Speaker 1: an NFL legend. Anybody else stand out to you?
Speaker 2: Luke mccays made some plays, you know. Yeah, he's he's
Speaker 2: got a little bit of like the McCaffrey quickness. You know.
Speaker 1: We know he was a quarterback, right.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, Well then he's Jacoby Myers.
Speaker 1: That's I was going to say, how much does he
Speaker 1: look like Jacoby? Because he played quarterback at right? He
Speaker 1: played quarterback at right, so I think for a year
Speaker 1: he didn't it was a backup. I think he made
Speaker 1: like four starts.
Speaker 2: You know, I respect Jacoby a lot, So I'm not
Speaker 2: going to sit here and say that, you know, everybody's Jacoby,
Speaker 2: but you know, I I think that he's he's got
Speaker 2: a little bit of that like kind of heady route run,
Speaker 2: a little bit of quickness, you know, a little bit
Speaker 2: of size. Yeah, I could see that.
Speaker 1: He's a little bit on the bigger side. I think, right,
Speaker 1: isn't he he's Yeah, where is he here? Six one
Speaker 1: two oh two? So I mean that's solid size. Any
Speaker 1: other any other thoughts on the wide receiver position.
Speaker 2: H no, but if you want to stick with the
Speaker 2: skill positions. Though for a second, I do have some
Speaker 2: running backs, which I know is going to shock you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, we got a couple more calls, will
Speaker 1: mix them in, but let's let's talk. Oh yeah, we
Speaker 1: got to talk about till the Lobby. Of course. I'm
Speaker 1: assuming that's who you have the thoughts on, or one
Speaker 1: of the guys.
Speaker 2: Dylan Dylan Lobby's this guy. Guy's legit man, Like you know,
Speaker 2: I am anti running back. I am as anti running
Speaker 2: back as you could possibly be. But Dylan Lobby intrigues
Speaker 2: me because they just don't have They've been searching for
Speaker 2: that type of player for a while now, really since
Speaker 2: James White hung it up. And he's a sub package back.
Speaker 2: Whether you want to use him by handing him the
Speaker 2: ball at a gun out of spread formations or you
Speaker 2: want to throw him the ball, he's he's a sub
Speaker 2: package back like that's exactly what he is in the NFL,
Speaker 2: and they definite desperately need a guy like that, especially
Speaker 2: if they're not going to have a super mobile quarterback
Speaker 2: again or something like that, then they really could use
Speaker 2: like a checkdown guy, a safety valve and somebody that
Speaker 2: can run out of spread and things of that nature.
Speaker 2: And I think Dylan Lobby is really you know, he
Speaker 2: comes from un h right, So yeah, you want to
Speaker 2: see is does it translate against better competition in the NFL.
Speaker 2: Caliber guy absolutely has, absolutely.
Speaker 1: Has the initial burst when he gets the ball and
Speaker 1: puts his foot in the ground against going And there's
Speaker 1: one play he made yesterday, Evan, I'm sure you know
Speaker 1: which one I'm talking about. It's a shotgun hand off
Speaker 1: and he actually gets the ball late because if there
Speaker 1: was an issue with the snap of the handoff or something,
Speaker 1: and he still gets out of the backfield so fast.
Speaker 1: Whether or not the defensive end had the ability to
Speaker 1: set the edge was irrelevant. He's around it, he's gone,
Speaker 1: like you needed to set that edge so quickly in
Speaker 1: order to contain him. And that's such a dangerous skill
Speaker 1: set for running back to have. So I have been
Speaker 1: incredibly impressed with Dylan Lobby and that is absolutely a
Speaker 1: guy like you said, you put him in the James
Speaker 1: White role. Is he gonna be James White? I don't know.
Speaker 1: I mean, James White was a great, great player, But
Speaker 1: you talk about a guy that can truly impact the
Speaker 1: game on third downs in a number of ways from
Speaker 1: the running back role. We haven't or they haven't shout
Speaker 1: it on TV. I don't know if you've seen Evan
Speaker 1: him in any one on ones or pass pro situations,
Speaker 1: but with the all in his hands, yeah, he looks
Speaker 1: very legit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in what I wants. He's done a really nice
Speaker 2: job really all around. You know, blitz pick up, they've
Speaker 2: done a little bit of that where they have real
Speaker 2: blitz pick up one on one type of matchups, blitzing
Speaker 2: linebackers against the backs, and he's done okay, And he's
Speaker 2: had really good hands, you know, really reliable hands. He's
Speaker 2: got some quickness at the top of the row. Trying
Speaker 2: to think of like Patriot Coms, like he's probably a
Speaker 2: little bit more Rex Burkhead than James White, or maybe
Speaker 2: like a little more like a bigger Danny Woodhead or
Speaker 2: something like that than a James White type. But I
Speaker 2: you know, I'm not a running back guy, and I
Speaker 2: would be okay with a Day three pick on Dylan Lobby.
Speaker 2: I'd be cool with that.
Speaker 1: And I don't think he's gonna go that high because
Speaker 1: it is a good running back draft. I think that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: uh so they're sixty eight and the third I don't
Speaker 1: even know what they are on the fourth off the top.
Speaker 1: Oh well, we don't know yet. Actually we don't know,
Speaker 1: but it'll be somewhere around like one ten fifteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think that's not taking him any earlier than that.
Speaker 1: Maybe you can wait till the fifth round, but early
Speaker 1: day three I would not have a problem at all.
Speaker 1: I think that would be a great, great pick. Did
Speaker 1: you have any other running backs that stood out?
Speaker 2: So Marshawn Lloyd from USC's made some really good sketches. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he can catch the ball. I win on vertical routes too,
Speaker 2: which if you're going to be a running back in
Speaker 2: my in my world, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Oh you almost said it. You almost said the
Speaker 1: M word, the m O word.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, no, I wasn't going there. I've learned
Speaker 2: my lesson in my world in running backs in your offense,
Speaker 2: if you can't win on a wheel route, I have
Speaker 2: no time for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's been crushing the wheel routes, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he can run a wheel route. He can
Speaker 2: get up the field a little bit like if you
Speaker 2: want to run him up the seam, you know, make
Speaker 2: it three strong for strong with the wheel or the
Speaker 2: seam like. He can definitely do that. And he's he's
Speaker 2: been able to catch some passes out of the back
Speaker 2: that he probably caught Bo Nicks his best throw of
Speaker 2: the week so far on a wheel route on a
Speaker 2: mesh concept. So he's he's caught the ball pretty well.
Speaker 2: And uh day John Edwards, I hope I'm saying his
Speaker 2: first name correctly from Georgia.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: He has caught the ball a little bit too, and
Speaker 2: has shown some ability to catch the full ball. I
Speaker 2: think both Lloyd and and Edwards I think are more
Speaker 2: you know, they're stouter, like, they're stockier guys than than
Speaker 2: Dylan Lobby. So I'm not sure they're pure third down backs,
Speaker 2: but I'm looking for guys that can catch the ball
Speaker 2: a little bit out of the backfield. I think that
Speaker 2: they could use that for sure.
Speaker 1: I'll give you one more guy. This is the one
Speaker 1: you're gonna hate because ramondrous Evenson is entering a contract year.
Speaker 1: Do you get, you know, the next early down guy.
Speaker 1: I don't think they need to take him until late.
Speaker 1: I mean you're talking six or seventh round, and look,
Speaker 1: it's easy to do this in a practice where there's
Speaker 1: no live tackling. But Rashena Ali from Marshall was highly highly,
Speaker 1: highly productive in college, and you can see why he doesn't.
Speaker 1: He doesn't wait around. He gets the ball and he
Speaker 1: is boomed north south like he does. He just attacks
Speaker 1: the hole with with with a purpose. That's kind all
Speaker 1: all he does. And I think there's a role for
Speaker 1: that in the NFL. I get just before we freak out,
Speaker 1: sixth round, seventh round. I do think he'll get drafted.
Speaker 1: I don't think he'll be u DFA. But it's you
Speaker 1: see the production in college and then you go by
Speaker 1: the way. Also played for Jeremy Springer was the special
Speaker 1: teams coordinator at Marshall when Rashina Lee was the kicker.
Speaker 1: Was the kick with the kick return of there. But
Speaker 1: I don't like the running backs that do the little
Speaker 1: jitterbug that like it's one thing if you're deng Lewis
Speaker 1: and you're great at it, but if you're running back
Speaker 1: and you're over two hundred and ten pounds, hit the hole.
Speaker 1: Just get the ball, hit the hole, fall forward. Rashiin
Speaker 1: Ali hits the hole with purpose. So I don't know
Speaker 1: if you have any thoughts on him, but sign me
Speaker 1: up for him late on day three to come in
Speaker 1: and just be a be a early down rotational running back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're not a fan of Barry Sanders, Apparently he
Speaker 2: does too much.
Speaker 1: Again, if you're Barry Sanders, great, go for it. I'm
Speaker 1: saying the guys like, you know, not to pick on
Speaker 1: a former Patriot, but like Lauren Smerni would sit back
Speaker 1: there all day and wait for a hole that was
Speaker 1: never going to open. If you're Barry Sanders, also, wasn't
Speaker 1: over two hundred pounds and put that qualifier on it.
Speaker 1: If you're especially in the modern NFL where you're gonna
Speaker 1: have these smaller linebackers and the safeties playing in the box,
Speaker 1: and you have the size advantage, get ahead of steam
Speaker 1: and go. Don't waste time, get ahead of steam and go.
Speaker 1: And it felt like Rashina Lee did a good job
Speaker 1: of showing that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you think Barry Sanders sucks, That's what I heard.
Speaker 1: I get. No, he's not over two hundred Was Barry
Speaker 1: Sanders over two hundred and ten pounds?
Speaker 2: There's no way I know we can move on. I've
Speaker 2: already done enough, wasted enough time on running back.
Speaker 1: No, but Dylan Lobby's a guy, local guy. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: he would he would make the football team better. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's ultimately this is all about all right, let's
Speaker 1: get some calls.
Speaker 2: That's big of me to say, by the way, that
Speaker 2: I agree with that.
Speaker 1: Well, he's like a hybrid receiver like you were always
Speaker 1: gonna kind of like again, if you would like Rashena Lee,
Speaker 1: I'd be a little more surprised. I'm more surprised you're
Speaker 1: as eager about Joe Milton. I'm more surprised you're as
Speaker 1: eager about Joe Milton. And I knew you were gonna
Speaker 1: like to a lobby. That was an easy one. Let's
Speaker 1: go to and we'll take some calls. Then we'll get
Speaker 1: to the tackles. Tyler in South Carolina has been hanging
Speaker 1: on for quite a bit. Tyler, thanks for that.
Speaker 5: Hey, any guys doing Hey good. So as far as
Speaker 5: the draft graft, I got two things.
Speaker 4: One I would have my eyes.
Speaker 5: On Jaj McCarthy. He's kind of that like a hybrid
Speaker 5: quarterback as the Washington Group his Michigan Daves. And he's
Speaker 5: got a great place now. He can throw that ball
Speaker 5: at least forty yards And if we don't go for
Speaker 5: a quarterback in the draft. Do you think we go
Speaker 5: out get a vet, keep Zappy has that train kind
Speaker 5: of motivate. Zachy makes Jappie better, So that way even
Speaker 5: comes time where our vet quarterback goes Zappies rates at
Speaker 5: then and see like.
Speaker 1: The next Brady, Yeah, I I don't know about Thanks
Speaker 1: for the call real quick on Zappi. You're not keeping
Speaker 1: Zappy and signing a veteran and having Zampi as the
Speaker 1: backup with the planet. Hand the keys over to him.
Speaker 1: He's in his third year. Either he's your starting quarterback
Speaker 1: or he's your backup quarterback. Brady, Right, Yeah, we need
Speaker 1: to need to calm down with that. And we've all
Speaker 1: talked about JJ McCarthy. I just he's so I'm higher
Speaker 1: on him than you I think at this point, which
Speaker 1: is I didn't see coming. Does he do some things
Speaker 1: that interest me? Yes, Like I think his athleticism, I
Speaker 1: think his size. Okay, there's something there. He's so far
Speaker 1: away from being able to win games in the NFL.
Speaker 1: The discipline, the field, vision, the consistency. Look, he just
Speaker 1: turned twenty one earlier this month. He has time. That's
Speaker 1: a guy that needs to sit for a year or two.
Speaker 1: That's the guy. If it's twenty eighteen and Tom Brady's
Speaker 1: still here and you have you know, all right, we
Speaker 1: got a couple of years left, that's guy you take
Speaker 1: like he needs to be on a Jordan Love path.
Speaker 1: And the Patriots don't have the starting quarterback, they don't
Speaker 1: have the Tom Brady Aaron Rodgers to do that. You
Speaker 1: hand that key, that kid the key's day one. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's gonna go. Well, so there is I understand.
Speaker 1: I've come around more on like, all right, if you
Speaker 1: want to talk to me about JJ McCarty in the
Speaker 1: second round for a certain kind of team, sure, I
Speaker 1: don't think the Patriots are that kind of team.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I've actually asked a few people that you know,
Speaker 2: I've talked to here about JJ McCarthy because I am
Speaker 2: so low on JJ McCarthy. It seems like compared to
Speaker 2: the league, like you know, guys like Daniel Jeremiah for example,
Speaker 2: who's plugged into the league and has you know, so
Speaker 2: many friends in scouting, how's this guy as like a
Speaker 2: first round pick, you know, a top twenty five player
Speaker 2: in the class. You know that type of thing. Dame
Speaker 2: Brugler similar like has him like close to the first round,
Speaker 2: if not in the first round. So I think the
Speaker 2: thing that with McCarthy is that, yeah, you can make
Speaker 2: a cut up film of like five minutes of him
Speaker 2: making all sorts of NFL throws right, Like, you can
Speaker 2: do that, but it's that's just a snapshot of the
Speaker 2: entire picture with him. So yeah, it's in there like that.
Speaker 2: You can see all right, he throws this, you know,
Speaker 2: a scene with zip He throws a slant with a
Speaker 2: good touch and timing on that crossing route that everybody
Speaker 2: shows against the hiding as Ohio State. Right, he can
Speaker 2: get out of the pocket, he can run around a
Speaker 2: little bit, like you can show all those types of things,
Speaker 2: but is any of it consistent? Has any of it developed? Like,
Speaker 2: absolutely not, And that's that's just the difference between it
Speaker 2: for me, a first round pick versus maybe some other people.
Speaker 2: To be a first round pick should be ready to
Speaker 2: play tomorrow, Like he should be able to walk onto
Speaker 2: the team and be the best quarterback on the field.
Speaker 2: I don't think Jajon McCarthy is is going to be that,
Speaker 2: So that to me is more of like a Day
Speaker 2: two guy. That's worth developing, but isn't someone that I'm
Speaker 2: taking in the first round. So I guess that where
Speaker 2: I'm at with Danie McCartney.
Speaker 1: Let's go to Matt in Washington and then we'll get
Speaker 1: into the big boys, the tackles. Matt, how are we going, Matt?
Speaker 1: You got me?
Speaker 6: Hey, guys, Hey, any concern that the Juju in Parker
Speaker 6: contracts make it hard to really attack the wide receiver position?
Speaker 6: And what a good offseason for it? You know, I'd
Speaker 6: love to see them sign one and draft one early
Speaker 6: on or double dip in a great class. But do
Speaker 6: you start to run into like a rep tissue where
Speaker 6: you either aren't giving a highly drafted rookie enough playing
Speaker 6: time or you're setting up a tough situation where you're
Speaker 6: trying to minimize the role of two veterans account almost
Speaker 6: like twenty million dollars against.
Speaker 1: The cop Yeah, Matt, thanks to God. Look, it's a
Speaker 1: great question. It's a great question. What do you do
Speaker 1: when you need to add to the wide receiver position,
Speaker 1: but you have two players who maybe aren't starting caliber
Speaker 1: players right now that you owe a lot of money too.
Speaker 1: I do think they need to be cognizant of the reps.
Speaker 1: I think the worst thing they can do is draft
Speaker 1: a guy high and sit them, especially when wide receiver
Speaker 1: more than any other position. The correlation between year one
Speaker 1: and overall success or lack thereof, is legit. If you're
Speaker 1: a good wide receiver, you produce in your one. If
Speaker 1: you're not, you don't. There's just not really who is
Speaker 1: the last wide receiver that didn't really burst on the
Speaker 1: scene until two, three, four years in his career. You
Speaker 1: don't see that anymore. You know who these guys are
Speaker 1: from the jump, So I think they should be open
Speaker 1: to moving one, if not both of them, because it's
Speaker 1: gonna be expensive. It's gonna be a tough contract to eat.
Speaker 1: When we talk about cap space, really what we're talking
Speaker 1: about is how easy it is to maneuver your roster.
Speaker 1: And that can be signing for agents, but it can
Speaker 1: also be, hey, we can you know if you have
Speaker 1: a wide receiver or two you love in the draft,
Speaker 1: Roman Wilson, right, and you're probably gonna use Roman Wilson
Speaker 1: that Z type role we saw Jujus and the Shuster
Speaker 1: in all right, we can afford to have. I don't
Speaker 1: know how much the dead money is on Juju off
Speaker 1: the top of my head, but I think it's like
Speaker 1: eleven million. We can afford to have eleven million in
Speaker 1: dead money because we're gonna be paying Roman Wilson nine
Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars and we're gonna have our starting wide receiver.
Speaker 1: So we're allocating twelve million dollars over all of this position,
Speaker 1: which is about right for a starting zet. Now for
Speaker 1: that to work, you have to have to have to
Speaker 1: hit on the pick, and that this is basically what
Speaker 1: the Rams did. It's a little different because they already
Speaker 1: had the dead money from a number of different things
Speaker 1: they did with their roster. It's not like they were
Speaker 1: just cutting guys to reset the roster, but they had
Speaker 1: to ball on a budget, for lack of a better term,
Speaker 1: they had to win on the margins they drafted. Well, right,
Speaker 1: if you end up with a guy like Pouk and Akua,
Speaker 1: the twelve million dollars in dead money for jujus from
Speaker 1: the shoster doesn't hurt that bad. Now, if you miss
Speaker 1: on the pick, you miss on the pick, and that sucks.
Speaker 1: But it's that's the position they've put themselves in. So
Speaker 1: I do think it's something that they certainly should consider
Speaker 1: I'm not saying cut every bad player and have fifty
Speaker 1: million in dead cap, but I do think there should
Speaker 1: be spots they should look to pick. Whether it is
Speaker 1: a guy like Juju Smith Schuster, whether it is a
Speaker 1: guy like Devonte Parker, you know, on the defensive side
Speaker 1: of the ball. Davon Gotcha actually doesn't have a lot
Speaker 1: of dead money. He has some, but it's not a lot.
Speaker 1: They can open up a lot of money if they're
Speaker 1: confident they can address those holes and improve the roster.
Speaker 1: You eating money is not a bad thing to do
Speaker 1: this offseason.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that. I'm with you on the eating
Speaker 2: money thing. I do think that should be on the table.
Speaker 1: Is it's by the way, it's twelve million for Juju
Speaker 1: if they caught him nine dead money, twelve million if
Speaker 1: they caught him nine million if they trade him. So
Speaker 1: if you can find like the John of Smith trade
Speaker 1: where you just move him for like a seventh round
Speaker 1: pick swap, you save three million, and I think they
Speaker 1: could be able to do that. I bet think he
Speaker 1: gets somebody to take them for you know, you're you're
Speaker 1: not gonna be paying him anything, and I bet they
Speaker 1: you trade him.
Speaker 2: Maybe, But I'm with you. I think that you have to.
Speaker 2: That's some cost at this point, and the worst thing
Speaker 2: that you can do, like you said, was create a
Speaker 2: long jam at those positions and then be forced to
Speaker 2: May this regime doesn't feel as forced to pay the
Speaker 2: experienced guy over the rookie year or whatever. But I
Speaker 2: just don't even want to give him that option. And
Speaker 2: I would just cut my losses if I could with
Speaker 2: both of those guys. Even if you have to eat
Speaker 2: some of the dead cap, I'd be okay with that.
Speaker 2: And maybe wait, you know, maybe wait until you get
Speaker 2: into camp. Got you know, team This happens every year
Speaker 2: teams around the league. Guys that get injured. Teams don't
Speaker 2: like their wide receiver room as much as they thought
Speaker 2: they would, and they are looking to add veterans and
Speaker 2: things like that, and that's where Parker or Juju is
Speaker 2: able to get moved. I don't know if they're gonna
Speaker 2: be able to the Juju or the John who excuse me.
Speaker 2: Some situation was unique because Arthur Smith coached him in
Speaker 2: Tennessee and got the most out room with the Titans
Speaker 2: and wanted them back. I don't know if they're maybe Kansas.
Speaker 1: City or or Washington, Eric p enemy. Yeah right, because
Speaker 1: the enemy was the OC there that year, right, Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so maybe maybe Washington. I mean they need they could
Speaker 1: use a guy like that, right, They've got Terry McLaurin
Speaker 1: on the outside. They've got Tammy Brown kind of as
Speaker 1: a speech or they could use a chain mover, certainly,
Speaker 1: especially for a for a young quarterbacks. So all right,
Speaker 1: you'ready getting the big guys because this has probably been
Speaker 1: the most Has this been the most fun group of
Speaker 1: any down there?
Speaker 2: I think it's been the best group. You know, the
Speaker 2: receivers have been really good too, But I would say
Speaker 2: that in terms of top to bottom the best group.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's probably eight or nine guys that we
Speaker 2: could discuss in this conversation at the tackle position. But
Speaker 2: I will say one thing, and there is nothing against
Speaker 2: an anyway. Some of these names are like giving me
Speaker 2: a tough time, Alex. You know, I really we could.
Speaker 2: I could appreciate some easier names on these.
Speaker 1: I have them all except uh Sua Madiata, the kid
Speaker 1: from from by the rest of them, so they had.
Speaker 1: He goes by Tally. I think his full name is Talise,
Speaker 1: but he goes by Tali Fuanga there's no en in there,
Speaker 1: but it's like the tongue of ie, right like tua. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's helped us. They've had these guys on NFL network,
Speaker 1: So Tali Fuanga. There's been two guys I think that
Speaker 1: have really stood out as in a group that's been
Speaker 1: good overall. Talifuanga. I'm just gonna say it as many
Speaker 1: time as I can to flex that I know how
Speaker 1: to say it. And a little bit easier name Tyler Guidon.
Speaker 1: So it's Oregon State, Oklahoma. Those two guys just dominant,
Speaker 1: just dominant, and they they win in different ways. I
Speaker 1: think Fuanga's more the big stout. He's just gonna envelop
Speaker 1: you like you come at him. You can try to spin,
Speaker 1: you can try to do this or that. He's just
Speaker 1: too big. Whereas Tyler Gidon, what impresses me about him
Speaker 1: so much is when we talk about these big tackles.
Speaker 1: We did this a lot last year, Evan with my
Speaker 1: guy from Ohio State, Dwan Jones. Was the concern is
Speaker 1: when you're that big, can you move? Can you get
Speaker 1: to the outside? Because when you see a three hundred
Speaker 1: called three hundred and thirty plus pound tackle, I think
Speaker 1: when you're lining up across from a three hundred and
Speaker 1: thirty plus pound tackle. The first instinct, the first thing
Speaker 1: that the defensive game planners, defensive edge rushers will come
Speaker 1: up with, is all right, what can I run around him?
Speaker 1: Can he get to the edge? And I think the
Speaker 1: coaching staff and Jim Naggy have done a very good
Speaker 1: job in this of They've shown what happens when you
Speaker 1: try to go you know, five tech seven, tech wide
Speaker 1: nine around Tyler Goeyden. You're not running around Tyler Guyden.
Speaker 1: Dude is such a good athlete. He moves so well
Speaker 1: at six seven three twenty eight. You're not running around
Speaker 1: that guy. And they're trying to spin on him and
Speaker 1: this and that, and once he gets his hands on
Speaker 1: you too, you're not getting away. He's too strong, He's
Speaker 1: too big, fast, strong tackles. So I don't know where
Speaker 1: you are Fuanga versus Geyiten. But I think in a
Speaker 1: group that's been good, those who have really stood out
Speaker 1: as the winners.
Speaker 2: I agree. I think Floga is more of the technician.
Speaker 2: You know, he's a little bit more a season than experienced,
Speaker 2: and you can tell that his plan is a little
Speaker 2: bit more developed. I think that's the biggest thing. Whether
Speaker 2: it's pass rushers or tackles, you have to have a
Speaker 2: plan of how you're gonna first, you know, initial contact,
Speaker 2: initial point, at the apex point of the rush, and
Speaker 2: obviously to handle counters as well and in need. There
Speaker 2: are some good edge rushers in this group as well.
Speaker 2: You know late to lat Too from UCLA is gonna
Speaker 2: be a dude like that guy is really good, awesome speed,
Speaker 2: cross chop, all of it. And I think that when
Speaker 2: you face those types of guys, you have to be
Speaker 2: able to have a lot of different ways and bury
Speaker 2: your sets in your hand placement, your usage. I think
Speaker 2: that's more fun. Say his name again, because I'm gonna
Speaker 2: freaking butcher it the whole season. That's more Fuanga's game
Speaker 2: is more technician chess match, you know that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Tyler Goeyton right now is all raw athleticism and potential.
Speaker 2: I if I was a team that felt really really
Speaker 2: good about my offensive line coach and my offensive line
Speaker 2: coach being able to develop a guy like Tyler Geiton,
Speaker 2: I would draft Tyler Gouyiton in the first round, no
Speaker 2: question ask and hand him off to Dante Scarnaki and
Speaker 2: watch him turn into an all pro, right, Like, I
Speaker 2: really feel he's got that kind of potential. But he's
Speaker 2: a little bit green in terms of his hand placement
Speaker 2: and some of the things I've seen with his set
Speaker 2: points in his pass pro. But he's really really good
Speaker 2: at being patient and understanding, Hey, I can mirror guys.
Speaker 2: I have the footspeed to do this, and I have
Speaker 2: the power and the strength and the body composition to
Speaker 2: just catch guys as well. So I think that he's
Speaker 2: got that ability to be patient, sit back in his
Speaker 2: chair and just mirror guys in past protection. That's gonna
Speaker 2: lend itself really well to the next level. That's number
Speaker 2: one thing then we look at. Also is run blocking
Speaker 2: with Biton Yea, the Yukon guard. I'm begging on his name.
Speaker 2: I'll look it up. Him and the entire guy and
Speaker 2: have had some dominant dominant reps. Christian Haynes, who's from Yukon.
Speaker 2: He's had a nice week down here and he's done
Speaker 2: a great job with Tyler guyon on some double team
Speaker 2: blocks based blocks things like that. That those two guys
Speaker 2: have been moving people on the right side. So both
Speaker 2: these guys are right tackles. You should mention that you
Speaker 2: know they're both these guys.
Speaker 1: So I want to ask you, do you think because
Speaker 1: they asked Suwanga today on NFL Network if I mean,
Speaker 1: obviously he's going to say yes, but they asked him
Speaker 1: about playing left tackle. He said yes. I think Geiton
Speaker 1: he's so raw, he's early in his development. Like, do
Speaker 1: you see either of those guys as potential left tackles.
Speaker 2: I would say Giton more just because of the foot
Speaker 2: speed in the range.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: The one thing about playing left tackle, you're facing a
Speaker 2: lot of the same rushers no matter which sides you
Speaker 2: play on. Some guys actually prefer, you know, like if TJ.
Speaker 2: Watt prefers to rush on the right tackle, so like
Speaker 2: you're gonna face high end competition on both sides. But
Speaker 2: I think about left tackle is that you get left
Speaker 2: one on one a whole lot more on the back
Speaker 2: side of pass pro, and so that makes it a
Speaker 2: little bit harder. And I think Geyon is a guy
Speaker 2: that has the athleticism to do that. I don't. I
Speaker 2: think could easily be a left tackel probably too, just
Speaker 2: with his technique and trusting himself over there. But I
Speaker 2: think that he's someone that's been pretty entrenched on the
Speaker 2: right side, and I would leave him over there.
Speaker 1: All right, other guys in this group that have stood out,
Speaker 1: we'll get We'll get to the standouts in a good win.
Speaker 1: And then there's a couple guys who have struggled. So no,
Speaker 1: let's do this. So the rest of that talk group,
Speaker 1: we talked about this coming in Evan, that there's seven
Speaker 1: tackles expected to go somewhere between like twenty and fifty
Speaker 1: six of them were going to be there. That number
Speaker 1: got cut to five. Fatanu from Washington ended up not going,
Speaker 1: So I f Wanga and Geiton were the two guys
Speaker 1: in that group. The other three Kingsley, Sue Mattilla again
Speaker 1: that's the one I'm still working on, Jordan Morgan from Arizona,
Speaker 1: and Patrick Paul from Houston. Those three guys, how have
Speaker 1: they stacked up compared to fu Wanghan Geiton.
Speaker 2: So I would say that Pulanga and Geiton have definitely
Speaker 2: been in their own tier. Yeah, But Patrick Paul is
Speaker 2: just a monster like that. He he is just an
Speaker 2: absolutely large human and I know he's been killing the
Speaker 2: athletic testing here, you know, all like the zebra stuff
Speaker 2: and things like that he's like six seven three thirty.
Speaker 2: I think he has thirty six in charms, which is
Speaker 2: just absolutely.
Speaker 1: Gonna have it right here, six seven three thirty three
Speaker 1: thirty six and two eh in arms, two eighths inch arms,
Speaker 1: eighty six and six eighth wingspan, nine and three eighths hands.
Speaker 2: So a thirty six and two as arm length is
Speaker 2: gonna put him well over the ninetieth percentile at the Yeah.
Speaker 1: He's nobody else. Sua Mattia is at thirty four and
Speaker 1: two eighths. Christian Jones, who's a big guy, is at
Speaker 1: thirty four and seven eighths, but he's also he's about
Speaker 1: the same height. Yeah, nobody else is really over thirty four.
Speaker 1: Ethan Driscoll's at thirty five, but he's six ' nine.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So that he's a big, big dude, and he
Speaker 2: can move and he can move people off the ball.
Speaker 2: I've been pretty impressed with him. He has caught a
Speaker 2: lot of guys and been bull rushed a little bit
Speaker 2: in pass protection. He plays a little bit tall, and
Speaker 2: you know, his flexibility and his lowers isn't great. That
Speaker 2: would be the one knock I would have on him.
Speaker 2: Sue Matia has been ex like, that's exactly what a
Speaker 2: Patriots right tackle looks like. Typically, wide body can't get
Speaker 2: through him get a move people in the run game,
Speaker 2: like if they're looking at it and saying, we just
Speaker 2: want somebody that we're gonna plug and play as a
Speaker 2: starter and not necessarily thinking about let's get the higher
Speaker 2: upside left tackle taking. I think Sue Matia coming in
Speaker 2: as the right tackle would would easily be able to
Speaker 2: hold down that position in their traditional schemes, like if
Speaker 2: they're going to be a downhill run team still and
Speaker 2: not going outside zone or anything like that. If it's
Speaker 2: like Kayley, then I think that Sue Matia I fits
Speaker 2: that bill perfectly for what they usually like on the
Speaker 2: right side. I've been impressed with the kid from Texas,
Speaker 2: Christian Joe Zones. He's a big tackle too, but he
Speaker 2: moves well. He's got great hand placement, really a good
Speaker 2: inside strike to leverage blocks and control engagements with his hands. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that he can play and uh and I'm
Speaker 2: intrigued by him too. I think, you know, I looked
Speaker 2: at the art consensus board that we used Alex and
Speaker 2: he was like an early Day three guy, like a
Speaker 2: fourth round projection. I think he might be playing himself
Speaker 2: into the into the third round conversation here this week.
Speaker 1: So think about Christian Jones. I've kind of called him
Speaker 1: like a Day three Trent Brown. A lot of penalties, yeah,
Speaker 1: a lot of penalties. And he's probably only he could
Speaker 1: see on the right side.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he he likes to really grip guys like
Speaker 2: with his hands, and so if guys feel that, then
Speaker 2: they might try to like move like, you know, quickly,
Speaker 2: like to the left or right, and then it looks
Speaker 2: like holding. So I could see that. But he he's
Speaker 2: got really good inside hand placement. Like a lot of
Speaker 2: these guys and we'll talk about a few of them
Speaker 2: on on the con side or the downside. A lot
Speaker 2: of these guys, you can tell, just really struggle with
Speaker 2: their hand placement, and they got wide hands. They're like
Speaker 2: bear hugging people. They're touching them like this. And I
Speaker 2: the one thing I'll give Christian Jones is I think
Speaker 2: he's got a really good inward, like proper strike in
Speaker 2: between the shoulder blades that's done a good job of
Speaker 2: latching onto guys and controlling things.
Speaker 1: I've been impressed with his footwork. He's lost it a
Speaker 1: couple times, but I think upper body he's really good.
Speaker 1: When he struggled in college, it was lower body. It
Speaker 1: was his feet maybe getting narrow, or just him not
Speaker 1: getting into his set quickly enough and lowering his anchor
Speaker 1: quickly enough. I think he's done a really good job
Speaker 1: of that this week. So that's something where again you
Speaker 1: talk about he's moving up boards. By the way, I
Speaker 1: looked at up Patrick Paul has the wings span of
Speaker 1: somebody who is seven foot three. Yeah, and he's sing seven.
Speaker 2: So he's another one of those guys that if again
Speaker 2: Sam similar to Tyler Dighton. Yeah, if you feel really
Speaker 2: good about coaching, and you feel good about your line coach,
Speaker 2: and you think that you can just hand this guy
Speaker 2: off to you know, somebody, and you know Bill Callahan
Speaker 2: and Cleveland is just gonna turn this guy into a stud,
Speaker 2: then I would draft both those guys.
Speaker 1: Well, you put Patrick Paul on one side, Dawan Jones
Speaker 1: on the other. Cleveland, Yeah, I mean, look, good luck
Speaker 1: getting around the edge. A couple more depth guys I
Speaker 1: thought were good. Javon Foster for Missouri had a really
Speaker 1: nice day yesterday. Took a little bit of a step
Speaker 1: back today, but I thought he was good. And then
Speaker 1: Roger Rosengarten, who would still imprinted in my brain what
Speaker 1: him just getting beat like a Drummond National Championship. He's
Speaker 1: been good, and the interesting thing about him is he
Speaker 1: was a right tackle at Washington, but he was a
Speaker 1: right tackle for a lefty quarterback, so he has that
Speaker 1: blindside experience and he's gone against a lot of great
Speaker 1: edge rushers. So those two guys stood out. And then
Speaker 1: the one guy. I don't know if you have any
Speaker 1: thoughts on them, but the one guy wanted to ask
Speaker 1: you about because they haven't shown him a ton on
Speaker 1: TV for whatever reason. Ethan Driscoll from Marshall. I'll be honest,
Speaker 1: he wasn't totally on my radar coming into this. And
Speaker 1: then I heard them say, you know, you see guys
Speaker 1: measure in in college at six ' nine and then
Speaker 1: they get to this event and they do the official
Speaker 1: way and they're like six seven and whatever, uh six
Speaker 1: eight three twelve thirty six inch arms Ethan Driscoll. I
Speaker 1: don't know how's he looked. Again. I haven't gotten to
Speaker 1: see much of him, but you know, six ' eight
Speaker 1: is who's the guy last year from Baylor at the
Speaker 1: Shrine Bowl that we saw, and he was just so
Speaker 1: much bigger than everybody else under Galvin. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: think he ended up like sticking around the league, at
Speaker 1: least as a rookie. He's just so much bigger than
Speaker 1: everybody else. You can't help but see him.
Speaker 2: That's a good comp I would say. For what I've
Speaker 2: seen him.
Speaker 1: Drisk Gallon's on the lines, he stuck around, So.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I worry about those guys almost being too tall
Speaker 2: because of the leverage battle and the pad level and
Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. I remember talking to Sebastian
Speaker 2: Volmer and I he said that Nate's older is a
Speaker 2: great player, but Nates older was almost too tall for
Speaker 2: his own good, where he just had so much height
Speaker 2: that he just was never the lower guy in any engagement.
Speaker 2: And I feel like that was what I've seen a
Speaker 2: little bit from Driscoll is just a struggle of you know,
Speaker 2: leverage and guys getting underneath him. But he's a big
Speaker 2: guy and he moves pretty well on run blocks from
Speaker 2: what I've seen too. So someone that I have definitely
Speaker 2: jotted down to look at a little bit closer. Not
Speaker 2: a top one hundred player by any means, but somebody
Speaker 2: that might be available later on in the draft.
Speaker 1: All right, so we talked about that talk group. It
Speaker 1: feels like most of them have delivered. I know you're
Speaker 1: not high on Jordan Morgan. I think he struggled. He
Speaker 1: might be a guard in where you're at with we'll
Speaker 1: call him Kingsley from BYU.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I would say Jordan Morgan. The couple of
Speaker 2: things that I have seen from him on the positive
Speaker 2: side have been like his ability to kick out in
Speaker 2: the run game or work up in time up to
Speaker 2: the second level in the run game, which typically when
Speaker 2: you see that those two things, you think that's more
Speaker 2: translatable to inside play, like yeah, guard right, you know
Speaker 2: you're a better run blocker. You're good in confined areas,
Speaker 2: you're good in the phone booth, like play a guard
Speaker 2: when he gets out in space. I was mentioning hand
Speaker 2: placement things like that. The one thing that you see
Speaker 2: with his hands is he carries them wide and he
Speaker 2: carries them low, which is not what you want to do, right,
Speaker 2: You want your hands up. I remember talking to Adrian
Speaker 2: Clem last year and he said, your your chest is everything, right,
Speaker 2: Like if you give up your chest in past protection
Speaker 2: as a as alignment, you're you're going to have a
Speaker 2: long day. It's really difficult if you can't control your
Speaker 2: chest and keep your chest out your guys out of
Speaker 2: your your frame. And I look at a guy like
Speaker 2: Jordan Morgan and I think he's struggled with doing that
Speaker 2: a little bit in these practices. But he does run
Speaker 2: block really well. And he's also measured in with shorter
Speaker 2: arms and expected over under three or three inches. So
Speaker 2: maybe he's someone that ends up translating to guard, like
Speaker 2: if you put him at guard in like an outside
Speaker 2: zone scheme, I think he'd be really good there tackle.
Speaker 2: I'm not so sold.
Speaker 1: On any other thought. I think we talked about pretty
Speaker 1: much everybody. I know there are some guys that are
Speaker 1: like a late scratch from the roster, but I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked a little bit about Kingsleys right with
Speaker 2: talks to the BYU guy a little bit again. I yeah,
Speaker 2: I think that he's, you know, wide body, someone that
Speaker 2: would be really a fit for them at ride tackle
Speaker 2: if they want to stick with that typical Marcus Cannon,
Speaker 2: Mike on WNU. You know that type of body type.
Speaker 1: So let me ask you this. A lot of people
Speaker 1: and I know he got hurt today. I don't know
Speaker 1: if you've heard any update on this. Jackson Powers Johnson,
Speaker 1: center from Oregon looks. I mean, he's going to be
Speaker 1: a top ten center in the league for most of
Speaker 1: his career, if not top five. He's a hell of
Speaker 1: a player. Probably he should end up al a first
Speaker 1: round pick. He's projected a little lower right now. I
Speaker 1: think he's gonna come away from this week with some
Speaker 1: first round buzz and a lot of Some people have
Speaker 1: said as good as uh Fuanga's been, as good as
Speaker 1: Tyler Guiten's been, that, Jackson Powers Johnson has been the
Speaker 1: best lineman and mobile. So some people here say some
Speaker 1: people hear that and say, well, what if the Patriots
Speaker 1: drafted him and moved him to tackle. I wouldn't. I
Speaker 1: there's good tackles.
Speaker 2: In the draft. Does he have the trades to do that.
Speaker 1: No, he's under at the arm size. But I think
Speaker 1: some people just here for the people who maybe aren't
Speaker 1: as familiar with how this works, who just hear, oh, hey,
Speaker 1: you know this guy's really good, Let's draft him, kick
Speaker 1: him outside. Could he play guard? Yeah? Probably he'd be
Speaker 1: great on the Patriots. I think having a good center
Speaker 1: is valuable, but you're gonna need to use a first
Speaker 1: round pick to get him. They have a good center
Speaker 1: in David Andrews. They invested a decently high draftic in
Speaker 1: the center last year, and Jake Andrews tremendous player. And
Speaker 1: then I say this a lot, even if the players good,
Speaker 1: when you draft the player, there's gonna be a plan.
Speaker 1: How's he gonna contribute, Especially you're drafting guy that high.
Speaker 1: I don't know what the plan is on jack You're
Speaker 1: you're gonna sit him behind David Andrews where I guess
Speaker 1: if Andrews retires, you're gonna make that You're It's nothing
Speaker 1: against David Andrews, but I don't know that center can
Speaker 1: be their number one priority. I just don't see the
Speaker 1: path to Jackson powers Johnson and the Patriots happening.
Speaker 2: No, absolutely not. But he's been fantastic. He's been the
Speaker 2: best lineman by far. I would say down here, and
Speaker 2: he's just the how just kind of powerful and compact,
Speaker 2: and he was named unreal. Unreal just kind of like
Speaker 2: ability to redirect with power and the ability to mirror guys.
Speaker 2: When I say redirect, you know mirror pass rushers on
Speaker 2: the inside, but to do it with like powerful strides
Speaker 2: and like knock guys off off their rail and things
Speaker 2: like that. He had a one on one matchup with
Speaker 2: Michael Hall from Ohio State, who's probably one of the
Speaker 2: best interior rushers in the in the Senior Bowl this year,
Speaker 2: and just absolutely shut him down, not only shut down
Speaker 2: the initial move, but then shut down the counter and
Speaker 2: just watching the quick you know, ability to move side
Speaker 2: to side and things like that. It's impressive. He's going
Speaker 2: to be a really good player for a long time,
Speaker 2: just not not for the Patriots.
Speaker 1: All right. I think that pretty much covers offense. We
Speaker 1: didn't really talk about, I guess outside of Powers Johnson,
Speaker 1: any interior offensive lineman, nobody's really stood out to me
Speaker 1: as that. You know. I like the kid eq Wacoun
Speaker 1: from Florida just because he plays nasty, but yeah he does.
Speaker 1: He's grab him in the seventh round, grabbing his UDFA
Speaker 1: interior line depth. Great. Are you good on that that front?
Speaker 1: The offensive front? I do want to talk about defense
Speaker 1: a little bit here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just quickly though. Ben Sinnett from Kansas City, Oh.
Speaker 1: That's right, we're gonna come back to tight ends. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: He's been pretty good. I've been intrigued by him. I
Speaker 2: think you can get open. I think he catches the
Speaker 2: ball well and then you can block a little bit,
Speaker 2: can play some fullback linemans. Yeah, I'm intrigued. I don't
Speaker 2: love this tight end class.
Speaker 1: Oh this is not good class. None of the not
Speaker 1: a lot of them are at the or do you
Speaker 1: just mean the Senior Bowl group?
Speaker 2: I just mean, like so yeah, Brockauer, right, obviously, but
Speaker 2: let's just you have Brack Bowers, and you have Jatavian Sanders,
Speaker 2: the kid from Texas at the Shrine Bowl, and then
Speaker 2: what like then everything else is probably you're talking about
Speaker 2: late day three. No, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think Cade Stover could be a top one hundred pick.
Speaker 1: I think Dalen Hawker from Colorado State is a guy
Speaker 1: that could maybe play a little bit. He's gonna go
Speaker 1: middle of day three. I like Jared Wiley. I know
Speaker 1: he had a rough day to day. I thought he
Speaker 1: had a good day yesterday. But I think he's like
Speaker 1: a decent project tight end. I want to ask you
Speaker 1: about some of these guys because they're not showing him
Speaker 1: a ton on TV. So I guess, I.
Speaker 2: Guess maybe it's just compared to you know, you're coming
Speaker 2: off last year. It's just it's not quite class.
Speaker 1: No, But I wouldn't say it's that it's better than
Speaker 1: that twenty twenty class that was like cole Comet and
Speaker 1: then nobody.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree, especially when you have black Bowers in
Speaker 2: the class like obviously, but even't like, I.
Speaker 1: Think there's a couple of NFL starters here. Maybe not
Speaker 1: you know, pro bowlers, but I think there's a couple
Speaker 1: of NFL starters here. Uh So you mentioned Senate, who's
Speaker 1: kind of that you know, they're throwing Kyle used Check
Speaker 1: around left and right when they're talking about him, and
Speaker 1: oh really yeah, if that surprising, I see, I.
Speaker 2: See, uh yeah a little bit because I love use check.
Speaker 2: We all love the use check. But I think Senate's
Speaker 2: a little bit more of like a pure receiving tight
Speaker 2: end than the use check is. Like, I think he's
Speaker 2: got a little bit more uh new. I just kind
Speaker 2: of I don't look at you as used Check as
Speaker 2: the guy that really you're going to run like routes
Speaker 2: from a tight end alignment. And and but.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, Senate's a guy that can give
Speaker 1: you some of those full back h back type, which
Speaker 1: so here's what I'm saying. If the Patriots are going
Speaker 1: to go McVeigh and they need their Kyle used check
Speaker 1: Ben Sinnett. I think you could say could be the guy.
Speaker 1: I don't know, Am I wrong there?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: And he he had a run block today that had
Speaker 2: the whole UH team, you know, I was the whole
Speaker 2: American team just going crazy and dapping him up for
Speaker 2: it and like that. So he can definitely block. And
Speaker 2: I think he's caught the ball pretty well down here
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: So the other guy I like in that kind of role,
Speaker 1: and he's I try not to be a sizest in
Speaker 1: terms of players, Like if a player is good and
Speaker 1: he's big enough, the one position of the sizes is
Speaker 1: tight end, I play mad. And if I see a
Speaker 1: tight ends under six to five, I want nothing to
Speaker 1: do with him. But Jaheim bell As that kind of
Speaker 1: moved tight end. I just his athleticism and they have
Speaker 1: even shown him a ton on TV. So this is
Speaker 1: again right, need you at Florida State, his athleticism jumped
Speaker 1: off the charts. He can play true tight end. He
Speaker 1: played a little like slot receiver kind of role. We
Speaker 1: saw him at the I did see briefly today they
Speaker 1: were using him from a full back alignment. What have
Speaker 1: you thought of him as that kind of player?
Speaker 2: Yeah, he hasn't really done much that stood out. You know.
Speaker 2: It's really been a lot of Senate on the American team,
Speaker 2: and then the national team has been a lot of
Speaker 2: THEO Johnson from Penn State. Like those are the two
Speaker 2: guys that have really stood out in terms of catching
Speaker 2: the football. So I can't say I've seen a ton
Speaker 2: of bell, you know. THEO john I think is a
Speaker 2: guy though, that can run. You know, he's they keep
Speaker 2: on putting up his like zebra numbers and stuff on
Speaker 2: the scoreboard. He's a fast guy to n killed time
Speaker 2: well in the forty for a tight end, and he
Speaker 2: can move a little bit. I think, guy, Yeah, and
Speaker 2: I do. I agree with you on Wiley. By the way,
Speaker 2: I actually very rare for me. I actually saw Wiley
Speaker 2: live right because I went to that TCU game when
Speaker 2: we were down there in Dallas and I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know, I said to our good friend Bradley Amos.
Speaker 2: I was like, Hey, who is this this tight end
Speaker 2: that you you forget?
Speaker 1: Actually when you were watching Colorado when you were locked
Speaker 1: in the early days of Colorado and they played TCU.
Speaker 1: I remember you text me, who's this tight end for TCU?
Speaker 2: So maybe that was before we went to the game.
Speaker 1: It was Yeah, it was like the first week of
Speaker 1: the year. But a couple of times you've kind.
Speaker 2: Of yeah, yeah, he can play a little bit. I'm mean,
Speaker 2: I'm intrigued by him.
Speaker 1: The one other guy I'll ask you about. And I
Speaker 1: don't know that this guy has like tight end one offside,
Speaker 1: but as a really good red zone run game, specially
Speaker 1: Pharaoh Brown, I think would be a good comp for
Speaker 1: me for this guy. And like I said, sizes to
Speaker 1: tight end. Six foot seven, two hundred sixty seven pound
Speaker 1: Brevin span Ford for Minnesota. You really haven't shown a
Speaker 1: lot of him. I know he had one nice catch today.
Speaker 1: But if the Patriots don't re sign Pharaoh Brown, can
Speaker 1: you go and get Brevin's span Ford late on day
Speaker 1: three to be just that kind of maller tight end.
Speaker 1: You'll catch a pass or two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree. I definitely can see that. And you
Speaker 2: watch him and line up at the end of the
Speaker 2: line and it looks like he's another tackle, Like he's
Speaker 2: like that that type of size, and sometimes you have
Speaker 2: to do a double take and be like, oh wait,
Speaker 2: there's there's six guys lined up, not just five. So
Speaker 2: he's a big dude and he can definitely block, and
Speaker 2: that's something you know. Look, and the tight ends in need.
Speaker 2: It's in need on the board for the Patriots, they
Speaker 2: have nobody signed. I think they'll probably bring back Hunter
Speaker 2: Henry in some way, shape or form, but in general,
Speaker 2: it's in need. And I also just look at their
Speaker 2: run game last year in particular, but even a little
Speaker 2: bit in twenty two. They struggled, I think at the
Speaker 2: tight end position with blocking at the point of attack,
Speaker 2: and I think it really hurt what they were able
Speaker 2: to do from a run game perspective. So I'm all
Speaker 2: for trying to upgrade not just the pass catching ability
Speaker 2: because I think they did get a little bit out
Speaker 2: of those guys as pass catchers. It's more about the
Speaker 2: run blocking for me at that position.
Speaker 1: All right, I am going to make you talk a
Speaker 1: little defense. You ready, Yeah, Yeah, let's start with the
Speaker 1: one position that I think we both agree if there
Speaker 1: is a need, not first round, not even top fifty,
Speaker 1: but if you're gonna flirt with defense in the top
Speaker 1: one hundred. Maybe you make the pick at sixty eight
Speaker 1: and then trade back in the third round. Something like that,
Speaker 1: A real free safety like actually going out and getting
Speaker 1: a potential Devin mccordy replacement. You know how much I
Speaker 1: love Cameron Kitchens, and I know he's there. I think
Speaker 1: that I'm playing some linebacker today too, which which is
Speaker 1: fascinating to me. But the guy I have circled is
Speaker 1: is George's Javon Bullard? And what if you thought of him?
Speaker 1: And is there anybody else who stood out? There's been
Speaker 1: some there's some interesting box safeties there, ol Adopo from
Speaker 1: Oregon State, Josh Proctor from Ohio State. But I've really
Speaker 1: liked Bullard. One other sleeper free safety, Evan Williams from Oregon,
Speaker 1: has popped a little bit for me. But what have
Speaker 1: you thought of those guys or any other potential Devin
Speaker 1: mccordy like safeties.
Speaker 2: Well, it kind of stinks because these quarterbacks, and I
Speaker 2: think we talked about at the time, just off the
Speaker 2: context for so different. There hasn't been a whole lot
Speaker 2: of of deep balls thrown in these two practices. There
Speaker 2: just hasn't been a ton of testing the ball down
Speaker 2: the field. So I haven't necessarily noticed their ball skills
Speaker 2: all that much, but just listening to some people around
Speaker 2: me and some of the scouts that are here, there
Speaker 2: is a lot of talk about how some of these
Speaker 2: guys do maybe favor a little bit more of the
Speaker 2: box safety types. It just seems like that's becoming so
Speaker 2: much more regular in the college game. They play so
Speaker 2: much split safety, so it's more like left and right
Speaker 2: than it is like true free and strong safety nowadays,
Speaker 2: So you have to be able to do a little
Speaker 2: bit of everything, you know, like a Kyle Duggart type
Speaker 2: or things like that. But I would say the best
Speaker 2: center fielder is probably your guy Bullard right now that
Speaker 2: I have seen. But I know it's not a major
Speaker 2: need for the Patriots necessarily, but there are those two corners,
Speaker 2: you know, Mitchell and cam Hart can really really play.
Speaker 1: Cam harten ma very good. I mean, Mitchell's been good,
Speaker 1: but he's first round pick, you know, he's good. Although
Speaker 1: I will say this, so I wanted to talk about
Speaker 1: Mitchell and I had this kind of little intro. The
Speaker 1: biggest development for the Patriots that has nothing to do
Speaker 1: with the Patriots this week has been the play of
Speaker 1: queny and Mitchell because the Patriots are not gonna take
Speaker 1: Quinny and Mitchell in the first round. I don't think
Speaker 1: they're gonna take Quinia Mitchell in the first round. Wouldn't
Speaker 1: make a lot of sense. But yeah, you know, coming
Speaker 1: from Toledo, coming from the mac, how does he match
Speaker 1: up against some of the you know, power five receiver
Speaker 1: And that was a question is he really a first
Speaker 1: round pick or is he gonna need some time to
Speaker 1: adjust and is he is he a second round pick?
Speaker 1: Quinnyan Mitchell moving up draft boards is good news for
Speaker 1: the Patriots because if he's going twenty twenty one, twenty two, like,
Speaker 1: that's the prime range for tackles. So it's pushing it
Speaker 1: some tackle because a guy like Quinyan Mitchell is showing out,
Speaker 1: is gonna fall down the board a little bit. So
Speaker 1: I've been watching Quinyan Mitchell through that lens, but he's
Speaker 1: been that dude can play. He's like six ' three right,
Speaker 1: and he's got speed and just really good understanding of
Speaker 1: what wide receivers are trying to do to him. I
Speaker 1: think he truly understands the approach to route running and
Speaker 1: he's been he's been a ton of fun to watch.
Speaker 2: I think he's been you can make the case. I mean,
Speaker 2: he's definitely on the in the he definitely is podiuming
Speaker 2: in this category. He's top three for sure. I think
Speaker 2: you can make the case that he's been the best
Speaker 2: player on the field so far this week. He's been phenomenal.
Speaker 2: I mean, his coverage ability is off the charts, sticky, competitive, physical,
Speaker 2: great ball skills, great route anticipation like this the whole gamut.
Speaker 2: And Cam Hart from Notre Dame has been pretty good
Speaker 2: as well. And I think that cam Hart is somebody
Speaker 2: that they could maybe get on Day two of the draft.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's the first round guy, so maybe
Speaker 2: you get him a little bit later. We've talked so
Speaker 2: much about the Jason mccordy, you know, third corner. You know,
Speaker 2: you probably are going to go into next year with
Speaker 2: Christian Zales and Jonathan Jones pretty locked into top two
Speaker 2: corner spots. But Jonathan Jones ideally is you know that
Speaker 2: move slot corner, you know, shadowing z's and slot receivers
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. So who's going to be the
Speaker 2: other guy on the perimeter. Is it Alex Austin, is
Speaker 2: it Sean Wade like that's that's a low key need.
Speaker 2: It's not a big one, but it's a low key need.
Speaker 2: And I would say that cam Hart maybe is one
Speaker 2: of those guys that you could get, yeah, you know,
Speaker 2: in a more reasonable category, reasonable spot. I also think
Speaker 2: that Show Smith Wade from Washington State even an unreal Yeah.
Speaker 2: So he's another guy.
Speaker 1: Well more corner. I want to ask you about. This
Speaker 1: is another guy where you got to help ou because
Speaker 1: they haven't shown him a ton is Chris abrams Strain
Speaker 1: for Missouri. I wanted him last year. He was supposed
Speaker 1: to come out last year and he went back to school.
Speaker 1: You know how I love the converted receivers at corner.
Speaker 1: You know how, give me the guy that has spent
Speaker 1: his whole life tracking the football and put him on
Speaker 1: the other side. Abrams Strain went to Missouri's wide receiver,
Speaker 1: played it for a year and then moved over kind
Speaker 1: of a tweener. He's five to eleven, so he can
Speaker 1: play on the boundary, he can play on the inside.
Speaker 1: We don't know how their draft tendencies are going to
Speaker 1: carry over, but the Bill Belichick kind of thing where
Speaker 1: this is the guy you put him in the Miles
Speaker 1: Bryant role. I think he'd be excellent, and he'd give
Speaker 1: you a little more on the boundary as well, because
Speaker 1: he's bigger. That's based on his tape this year. I
Speaker 1: don't know if he stood out good or bad for
Speaker 1: you this week, but I'm a fan.
Speaker 2: Yet, not like strong in one way or the other,
Speaker 2: but I would agree with you just looking at him
Speaker 2: in terms of his size and things like that. He's
Speaker 2: matched up a couple of times with Lad McConkie. He
Speaker 2: definitely is someone that I could see being a pretty
Speaker 2: good nickel in the league, and that's been coming. It's
Speaker 2: such an important spot in your defense because of how
Speaker 2: much teams play out of eleven personnel with three receivers
Speaker 2: on the field, how important the slot is in the
Speaker 2: middle of the field and being able to fit the
Speaker 2: run from that spot. The nickels spot is really becoming
Speaker 2: one of the more important places to play in your defense.
Speaker 2: So I think those guys are valuable.
Speaker 1: All Right, we got like five minutes here to really
Speaker 1: quick talk about the guys up front, and I gotta
Speaker 1: start you, said Quinnan Mitchell's in the conversation for the
Speaker 1: best player there this week. I gotta give you. I
Speaker 1: gotta give you my and fair you said podium, I'll
Speaker 1: put another guy up at the podium and hopefully it
Speaker 1: doesn't break under him. And that's Devandre Sweat, the defensive
Speaker 1: tackle from Texas. Didn't weigh in love that move. He's
Speaker 1: big enough. I can tell probably three seventy don't care.
Speaker 1: I'm good. He doesn't like he's always dominant. Sometimes he's
Speaker 1: hilariously dominant. Like he took a center from Houston today
Speaker 1: whose name on a scale is escaping me. And I
Speaker 1: don't think this guy's gonna mind not being named. He
Speaker 1: didn't drive him into the backfield. He picked him up
Speaker 1: off his feet and just walked him back. This is
Speaker 1: a guy that Texas had running routes. Is a tight
Speaker 1: end in their goal line package, not complicated routes, but
Speaker 1: they throw him the ball in the Big twelve Championship game.
Speaker 1: I don't see how he ends up as a Patriot.
Speaker 1: He's gonna be a top fifty pick. Uh, definitely some
Speaker 1: Vince will Fork shades. But like four or five years
Speaker 1: from now, when he's a free agent, I want Devandre Sweat.
Speaker 1: He's so fun to watch. He's so fun to watch.
Speaker 1: He just he takes over and he did it at Texas,
Speaker 1: like he took over games at Texas, and he has
Speaker 1: taken over the Senior Bowl when they give him chances.
Speaker 2: We've seen quite it.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: We were at the Shrine Bowl last year and we
Speaker 2: saw a bunch of Texas guys like that Texas de
Speaker 2: Hine just pumps.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, but sweats on another level, he's I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it looks when's the last time he saw a
Speaker 1: defensive tack look like that at that size.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a big dude. I think Michael Hall I
Speaker 2: mentioned him a little bit earlier. He's been really good too.
Speaker 2: This is a perfect setup for him. You know, these
Speaker 2: twitched up inside rushers that just can win with really
Speaker 2: good you know, suddenness, explosiveness off the line, you want
Speaker 2: to I'm sure you know. This is not like he
Speaker 2: played at Florida State. I'm not saying he's a deep
Speaker 2: sleep or anything like that, but Brandon Fisky from Florida
Speaker 2: State is just I'll take that guy on my team
Speaker 2: any day. What a what a freaking motor on that guy?
Speaker 2: That guy just off the ball in an instant bowling
Speaker 2: a china shop, always wrecking plays. He's in the backfield
Speaker 2: a ton, and it's not as much as I We
Speaker 2: all love watching the one on ones and things like that,
Speaker 2: when you get at the team like that's real football,
Speaker 2: right eleven and eleven is is real football, and he's
Speaker 2: the type of guy that is wrecking things. The other
Speaker 2: guys are having the flashy pass rush moves and one
Speaker 2: on ones, and Fisky is the one that's in the
Speaker 2: backfield when it comes to team drill.
Speaker 1: How about so I talked before where Davon Gotcha is
Speaker 1: in a contract year and they can open up some
Speaker 1: money if they move on from him. Lawrence guy's in
Speaker 1: a contract here, So I'm looking at run stoppers. Fiskey's
Speaker 1: one of them. Another guy who I think has had
Speaker 1: a great week who kind of projects is he's gonna
Speaker 1: go later. You can probably get him onto a three.
Speaker 1: I don't know that he might be a pass rusher
Speaker 1: later in his career, but right now I think could
Speaker 1: come in on first and second downs and play the run.
Speaker 1: In the NFL is Dwayne Carter from Duke, and I
Speaker 1: think he's I liked him coming in and I think
Speaker 1: he's better yesterday and better yesterday than today. But I
Speaker 1: think he's had a pretty good week overall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a powerful guy like you definitely can can
Speaker 2: hold up at the point of a.
Speaker 1: Kind of the day three Tovandre sweat kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And you know, if they're going to
Speaker 2: continue to play odd front like, they're gonna need some
Speaker 2: some pure nose tackles, some guys that can two gap
Speaker 2: and take on double teams and absorb contact. And I
Speaker 2: can definitely see him being able to do that. What
Speaker 2: do you think that you know, where do you eventually
Speaker 2: think that A Law Too from UCLA goes because he's
Speaker 2: going in the first round.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but he's had an interesting week high. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: tough because the edge class is so good, right, so
Speaker 1: because he's been really good, but there's still Dallas Turner,
Speaker 1: Jared Versus and Chop Robinson. So he could go in
Speaker 1: the top ten, he could go fifteenth, sixteenth. I think
Speaker 1: it's gonna be And we're not obviously doing edge this
Speaker 1: year from the Patriots. But that's another one of those things.
Speaker 1: You know how much I love talking about sorting out
Speaker 1: the teers, right, how do they sort out in that tier?
Speaker 1: Dallas Turner laid to Law too Jared Robinson might be
Speaker 1: a tier below, but Turner Law two verse all in
Speaker 1: that tier. They're all really good. They're all probably top
Speaker 1: ten picks. You have so much offensive talent, how much
Speaker 1: do they get pushed down the board? Does somebody move
Speaker 1: up from one of them? It's gonna be a flavor thing,
Speaker 1: all right, before we wrap it up, Evan, they have
Speaker 1: not shown us a single special team snap every time
Speaker 1: they go right to commercial. I need my Tory Taylor fix.
Speaker 1: I need my Tory Taylor fix. How does toy do?
Speaker 1: Please tell me you stop? Watched Tory Taylor.
Speaker 2: I did not stop. I'll tell you this, they haven't
Speaker 2: really done a whole lot of special teams. They really
Speaker 2: haven't kicked a ton on the TV.
Speaker 1: That they're doing it too much, Oh.
Speaker 2: I disagree. I have a lot of it's been off
Speaker 2: the jugs, like they haven't done have not kicked done
Speaker 2: a whole lot of kicking. I would think tomorrow they're
Speaker 2: following a pretty similar script to what an NFL team
Speaker 2: would follow, which is, you know, Wednesday, Thursday, big install days,
Speaker 2: Fridays kind of the clean up day and everything like that.
Speaker 1: So I think tomorrow on the broadcast tomorrow's the red zone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I haven't been in the red zone at all,
Speaker 2: so that makes sense.
Speaker 1: I wanted a Tory Taylor update all right, Well I
Speaker 1: might have to get that from you next week when
Speaker 1: you get back here. Yeah, so that'll do it for us.
Speaker 1: Thanks everybody for tuning in. We were kind of late,
Speaker 1: a different time than usual, and then we relate the
Speaker 1: traffic and practice wrapped up a little late as well,
Speaker 1: so that put us both behind. But thanks so much
Speaker 1: for tuning in. As always, you know, subscriber where you
Speaker 1: get your podcasts if you like this, Thanks everybody you
Speaker 1: tuned in live on YouTube. We'll be back next week Thursday.
Speaker 1: I don't know if we know the time, but like
Speaker 1: we'll be Thursday next week usual date. Follow us on
Speaker 1: Twitter at easylizard Real Alex Bart. We'll get you all
Speaker 1: caught up on the schedule and we'll talk to you
Speaker 1: next time. Bye. Thank you for downloading this podcast. Subscribe
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