Speaker 1: When Mike Marraccini ended his year and a half long
Speaker 1: entanglement with Laura Owens, he wanted to be done with her.
Speaker 2: I deleted everything on my phone. I didn't want to
Speaker 2: read her name, I didn't want to see her face.
Speaker 2: I just wanted to forget about that chapter in my
Speaker 2: life because it was really a hard time for me.
Speaker 1: But years later, Mike would find out that his experience
Speaker 1: with Laura was the beginning of a pattern, one that
Speaker 1: thousands of people online had become obsessed with. Maybe most
Speaker 1: invested of all was Dave Neil.
Speaker 3: It was almost like Laura had this damn that she
Speaker 3: was holding up with her own hands. The leaks were
Speaker 3: coming out, and she was very much like a cartoon,
Speaker 3: just doing her bad duct taping this thing shut. And
Speaker 3: then this laptop came out of nowhere.
Speaker 1: Mike Marraccini's laptop. It had been gathering dust and storage
Speaker 1: for almost five years.
Speaker 3: When I think of Mike's laptop, I just think of
Speaker 3: it like sitting alone in a giant room in a
Speaker 3: museum with just a spotlight sitting on it.
Speaker 1: Mike had no idea that all the information he'd deleted
Speaker 1: could be recovered, and that the memories he'd tried so
Speaker 1: hard to forget would soon become critical evidence.
Speaker 3: They found thousands of pages of documents, but more telling
Speaker 3: was just to show how damaging Laura was to Mike.
Speaker 3: They unearthed things he had forgotten actually happened.
Speaker 1: I'm Stephanie Young and this is love trapped.
Speaker 4: There's no way.
Speaker 2: You'd better believe.
Speaker 3: I'll be raising ho the.
Speaker 1: Hells if you ever, ever, ever, ever.
Speaker 3: Trastic.
Speaker 1: In the last episode you heard about Laura's year and
Speaker 1: a half long relationship with Mike Marriccini, Laura planned a
Speaker 1: trip to Iceland. According to Mike, it was part of
Speaker 1: the radio show he'd been developing with Laura. The trip
Speaker 1: was paid for.
Speaker 2: It was lined up with things to do the entire
Speaker 2: time we were in Iceland, so from start to finish,
Speaker 2: there was an event every single day of something to
Speaker 2: do to report back on at the end of the
Speaker 2: trip for the podcast.
Speaker 1: Today, he wonders who actually footed the bill for their
Speaker 1: trip to Iceland. After recording multiple episodes of the radio
Speaker 1: show with Laura, he asked her when he could expect
Speaker 1: to see compensation.
Speaker 5: I brought up that we were just working for free,
Speaker 5: and I had spent like fifty plus hours on these podcasts,
Speaker 5: being part of the edits being part of the research,
Speaker 5: and that I wasn't going to do any more work
Speaker 5: for free.
Speaker 1: After he set this boundary, he says, Laura sent him
Speaker 1: some money directly.
Speaker 2: I was paid one time, and I think it was
Speaker 2: like sixteen hundred dollars from Laura. I never got paid
Speaker 2: through a station.
Speaker 1: The radio contract Mike had been waiting for never came
Speaker 1: to fruition. After that, he walked away, But looking back
Speaker 1: almost ten years later, he wishes he'd never gotten on
Speaker 1: that plane to Iceland. From what he remembers, the flight there.
Speaker 2: Was miserable, more like maybe two hours in the flight,
Speaker 2: she's hysterically crying. Hysterically crying, and this is probably like
Speaker 2: at midnight. People around us are all turning around looking
Speaker 2: at us, and she's like lifting off my headphones and saying,
Speaker 2: please sock to me.
Speaker 1: Laura has a very different version of what happened on
Speaker 1: their Iceland trip. She told her story five years later
Speaker 1: in a now infamous ted X talk.
Speaker 6: He said that he didn't want to end our relationship,
Speaker 6: but I couldn't understand why he didn't want you when
Speaker 6: he treated me like he hated me, said that I
Speaker 6: brought it out of him, that it was my fault,
Speaker 6: that he'd never been violent before he met me, that
Speaker 6: I was responsible for his transformation from the all American
Speaker 6: boy to American psycho.
Speaker 1: Anyone can start a TEDx chapter. The one Laura applied
Speaker 1: to speak at was something called Tedex Mercer Island HS
Speaker 1: Women HS seems to stand for high school. The chapter
Speaker 1: Laura spoke at was organized by three high school sophomores
Speaker 1: based in Seattle. On their website, the organizers say their
Speaker 1: goal was to empower women in the Seattle area. We
Speaker 1: don't know how Laura found this specific group or how
Speaker 1: she became a speaker there, especially because Laura doesn't appear
Speaker 1: to have any ties to Seattle. But once her TEDx
Speaker 1: talk was published, Laura seemed to think she was making
Speaker 1: a name for herself. She included the link to her
Speaker 1: TEDx talk in her email signature. She also sent the
Speaker 1: link to Greg Woodnick, the lawyer who was representing greg
Speaker 1: La Lespie at the time. This was her proof of
Speaker 1: her status as a public figure. Here's Woodnick.
Speaker 7: Not only was there a link to her ted talk
Speaker 7: which she was telling us about, but further down there
Speaker 7: was this curious Italian last name in one of the links,
Speaker 7: also attached to the name Laura Owens.
Speaker 1: That curious Italian last name was Marcini. Woodneck's team tracked
Speaker 1: Mike down and found him listed on a court docket
Speaker 1: for a restraining order case Laura had filed against him.
Speaker 1: Shortly after, wouldn't It got in touch with Mike, but
Speaker 1: Mike didn't want anything to do with Laura Owens. Here's
Speaker 1: what he remembers from that first phone call with Woodnick.
Speaker 2: He's like, by the way, she's got a ted talk
Speaker 2: about she. Did you know that I said about me?
Speaker 2: Does she like say my name in it? It's like,
Speaker 2: I think you should watch it.
Speaker 1: So Mike went on YouTube and typed in Laura Owens
Speaker 1: ted Talk.
Speaker 2: That was the only time I had watched, like the
Speaker 2: first thirty seconds of it.
Speaker 1: To this day, Mike can't bring himself to watch the
Speaker 1: whole thing.
Speaker 2: It's absolutely crazy to watch knowing it's about me. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's crazy, say the least.
Speaker 1: Even though Laura doesn't name him. Mike says he immediately
Speaker 1: recognized Laura's story is about him.
Speaker 2: When I watched, I was in such shock because I
Speaker 2: know that she's referencing me the entire time, and it
Speaker 2: doesn't take a rocket scientist to put that together. All
Speaker 2: the views of those people that probably believed her and
Speaker 2: were against me for the longest period of time, it's
Speaker 2: a lot to take in. I had to turn it
Speaker 2: off though, because it just, I mean, it was all
Speaker 2: such complete lives. I just couldn't take anymore of it.
Speaker 1: In the ted X talk, Laura presents as selfie she's
Speaker 1: taken in a hospital bed. Her face looks bruised. She
Speaker 1: claims this photo is proof of the physical abuse she'd
Speaker 1: experienced with Mike in the months after their Iceland trip.
Speaker 6: Here's where I was when I actually posted it, in
Speaker 6: the hospital after my abuser and I had a particularly
Speaker 6: rough night.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Mike had seen this photo before,
Speaker 1: or at least one that looked very similar. And when
Speaker 1: I say very similar, I mean it looks like the
Speaker 1: exact same photo. Laura sent it to him four months
Speaker 1: before their trip to Iceland, and with the photo, she
Speaker 1: texted him saying she was at the hospital in preparation
Speaker 1: for an abortion she had scheduled the following day. This
Speaker 1: is what she sent him, with her text read by
Speaker 1: a voice actor.
Speaker 8: I'm at the er. My doctor wants them to get
Speaker 8: my fluids up so we can try to do the
Speaker 8: procedure tomorrow. Can you be back tonight at my place
Speaker 8: for sure? Looking bomb af on narcotics.
Speaker 1: Even though Mike hadn't seen the TEDx talk, he was
Speaker 1: painfully aware of the allegations Laura against him. That's because
Speaker 1: on June ninth, twenty eighteen, Laura filed a temporary restraining
Speaker 1: order against Mike Marriccini.
Speaker 2: She had these two bulldog attorneys that were elite attorneys,
Speaker 2: like extremely good, and these two people took a personal
Speaker 2: with me. They thought that I was beating the crap
Speaker 2: out of Laura.
Speaker 1: According to her court records, it looks like Laura used
Speaker 1: as San Francisco based legal clinic that specializes in free
Speaker 1: legal services for survivors of domestic violence, sexual assault, and stalking.
Speaker 1: I'm not naming this clinic because I don't think they
Speaker 1: did anything wrong. Clinics like this exist for a reason.
Speaker 1: It's their job to believe their clients, even if they
Speaker 1: don't have any proof of the abuse. These kind of
Speaker 1: free legal services for survivors, they can save lives. And importantly,
Speaker 1: we know that falsified. Alligations of sexual abuse only account
Speaker 1: for about five percent of all claims. In June twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: Mike had to give his sworn deposition to Laura's attorneys.
Speaker 1: At the time, he just started dating someone new, Danielle.
Speaker 9: I'm Danielle Marraccini and I am Mike Marriccini's wife.
Speaker 1: From the very start of their relationship, Mike was open
Speaker 1: about what he was going through with Laura Owens.
Speaker 10: I feel like most of it was told. At least
Speaker 10: the first month.
Speaker 9: I knew that she had accused him of domestic violence,
Speaker 9: and I did drive him to his deposition.
Speaker 1: On the way to the deposition, Danielle remembers how nervous
Speaker 1: Mike was.
Speaker 10: He was incredibly anxious.
Speaker 1: They'd only been dating for a few months. When Mike
Speaker 1: got back in.
Speaker 10: The car, he was just defeated.
Speaker 1: The deposition was much more intense than he did expected.
Speaker 1: Mike thought he was just going there to tell the truth.
Speaker 9: I do remember him just saying how they can find
Speaker 9: lies even though he's not actively lying, to frame him
Speaker 9: as this like violent guy.
Speaker 1: For example, Laura's attorneys asked him if he liked guns.
Speaker 1: He was confused and said no. Then they brought up
Speaker 1: an old social media photo where Mike is holding a rifle.
Speaker 1: He says the picture was taken while he and friends
Speaker 1: had been shooting clay pigeons at a firing range, but
Speaker 1: Laura's attorneys used it to paint a picture of Mike
Speaker 1: as a violent guy who wasn't being honest about his
Speaker 1: relationship to guns.
Speaker 2: It was posted deposition where my attorney's like, if you
Speaker 2: go to a court, there's a high likelihood that they're
Speaker 2: going to press for a five year restraining order or
Speaker 2: a permanent restraining order if they find valid evidence. Now,
Speaker 2: there was no valid evidence at the time, but she
Speaker 2: was throwing everything at the wall. I feel like I'm
Speaker 2: fighting a ghost. I don't have evidence, the support that
Speaker 2: I didn't beat her up. I don't know how I
Speaker 2: fight this.
Speaker 1: Danielle took it all in.
Speaker 9: I definitely felt hesitant at first, I think as most
Speaker 9: women would, but ultimately it just was this feeling that
Speaker 9: didn't track like the things that she was accusing him
Speaker 9: of from the very short amount of time that I
Speaker 9: had known him just didn't make sense. And I thought,
Speaker 9: if this man did these egregious things, why would he
Speaker 9: be telling me about them.
Speaker 1: She decided to proceed with caution, but her friends were alarmed.
Speaker 9: My friends did have then obligatory Hey, Danielle, those are
Speaker 9: really scary accusations. Once a domestic violence perpetrator, always a
Speaker 9: domestic violence perpetrator, and rightfully so did my friends warn
Speaker 9: me about that.
Speaker 1: But Danielle saw Mike as gentle, the kind of guy
Speaker 1: who repeatedly went out of his way to be there
Speaker 1: for her. Early on in their relationship, my.
Speaker 9: Dad passed away a little less than two months of
Speaker 9: knowing each other, Mike just said, I'm coming.
Speaker 1: Mike made a five hour journey to be by her side,
Speaker 1: and he was there a few months later when Danielle
Speaker 1: received terrible news about her mom.
Speaker 9: She passed away like two months after my dad. I
Speaker 9: just remember crumpling to the floor and Mike was there.
Speaker 9: It just told me everything that I had needed to
Speaker 9: know about him very early on.
Speaker 1: This is why she believed Mike when he told her
Speaker 1: Laura's allegations were false.
Speaker 2: I'm so thankful that she gave me a chance and
Speaker 2: she stuck by me. Because we're now married with two
Speaker 2: little ones.
Speaker 1: Danielle's been there with Mike through his entire legal battle
Speaker 1: with Laura Owens. After the deposition, Mike learned what he
Speaker 1: was up against, a domestic violence restraining order.
Speaker 2: I thought it was essentially like a civil restraining order,
Speaker 2: but since we were in our relationship, it was considered
Speaker 2: divestic files. That was not really explained to me clearly
Speaker 2: when it was happening.
Speaker 1: The DVRO Laura's attorneys proposed would expire or renew after
Speaker 1: two years, and there was a mutual stipulation neither of
Speaker 1: them could come within three hundred feet of the other.
Speaker 1: That was appealing to Mike because he had no desire
Speaker 1: to see her or speak with her anyways, So he
Speaker 1: signed it, not fully understanding what he'd just done. He
Speaker 1: sent it to his attorney and wrote in the email quote,
Speaker 1: this was so difficult for me to sign, knowing I
Speaker 1: never laid a hand on this woman, and this will
Speaker 1: be on my record for life.
Speaker 2: When I agreed to the two year restraining order, my
Speaker 2: attorney's like, let's just hope that she moves on with
Speaker 2: her life. Let's hope she finds love. I was like, amen, sister,
Speaker 2: So that's what I thought I was signing up for,
Speaker 2: Like a two year it goes away in retrospect.
Speaker 1: Mike wishes he fought the DVRO harder, but at the
Speaker 1: time he believed his lawyer when she said this would
Speaker 1: be resolved. In two years after signing the DVRO, Mike
Speaker 1: and his wife Danielle, tried to move on with their lives,
Speaker 1: but that document would impact them in ways they didn't expect.
Speaker 2: I noticed that when I would go through the process
Speaker 2: of getting a new job, I would make it to
Speaker 2: the final and they were like, hey, here's your verbal
Speaker 2: offer pending background check. The first time, I was like, oh, well, whatever,
Speaker 2: nothing's going to show up, and then I didn't get
Speaker 2: the job. I didn't realize until I pulled a background
Speaker 2: check on myself that it shows up that I have
Speaker 2: a domestic violence for straining order and it's active. I
Speaker 2: would say that was the biggest piece of how it
Speaker 2: really affected my relationship is being able to support provide
Speaker 2: for my family because we ended up getting pregnant real
Speaker 2: pregnancy in twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: The DVRO had turned into an albatross hanging over both
Speaker 1: of them. Then, in July of twenty twenty, Danielle her
Speaker 1: a knock at the front door.
Speaker 9: I was probably four or five months pregnant when the
Speaker 9: attorney came to our door and she was like, is
Speaker 9: Michael Marraccini here? And I was like, who are you?
Speaker 9: I'm not telling you yes or no? Why are you
Speaker 9: here at my house?
Speaker 1: Mike came to the door and stepped outside with the attorney.
Speaker 1: It turns out the two years were.
Speaker 9: Up, and he comes back in and he was just like,
Speaker 9: she's renewing, and I was like no, So it really
Speaker 9: blindsided us. I just remember erupting into tears.
Speaker 1: By September of twenty twenty, Mike was back in court
Speaker 1: with Laura Owens. Mike went in person and Laura joined
Speaker 1: on the phone.
Speaker 2: I had seen her once in years I moved away,
Speaker 2: and I thought, I was like, how is this impossible?
Speaker 2: How can somebody renew when kind violated it.
Speaker 1: Laura said she had proof that Mike violated the DVRO.
Speaker 1: She produced a screenshot of one of Mike's Instagram stories.
Speaker 1: He says his account was private and he had Laura blocked,
Speaker 1: but somehow she had a picture he posted of a
Speaker 1: smoothie he ordered at Barry's boot camp. Laura said that
Speaker 1: Barry's is less than three hundred feet from her apartment,
Speaker 1: but Mike had a rebuttal Barry's is a franchise. He
Speaker 1: wasn't at the one next to her apartment.
Speaker 2: I said, this is inaccurate. I was thirty miles away.
Speaker 2: I was in a completely different city. This is my
Speaker 2: gym blog with me Smoothie order.
Speaker 1: In the end, it didn't matter if Mike had actually
Speaker 1: violated the DBRO or not, because Laura was telling the
Speaker 1: judge she had reasonable apprehension of future abuse. In her renewal,
Speaker 1: Laura said, without a restraining order, I would never feel
Speaker 1: safe again. With that, the court renewed the domestic violence
Speaker 1: restraining order. This time it would stay in place for
Speaker 1: the next five years.
Speaker 2: I sat there and I said to the judge. At
Speaker 2: the very end, I was like, please make this a
Speaker 2: civil restraining order, because this affects my livelihood of getting jobs.
Speaker 2: My wife is pregnant, I am expecting a child here soon.
Speaker 2: I would really appreciate this could be moved to a
Speaker 2: civil restraining order. And they essentially told me now she
Speaker 2: still fears for her life.
Speaker 1: Danielle was devastated. This renewal came with shocking realizations.
Speaker 9: We realized that she was never going to let him
Speaker 9: out of her grip and that the justice system will
Speaker 9: most likely never side with him.
Speaker 1: Later on in this series, I traveled to San Francisco
Speaker 1: because at the end of twenty twenty five, Mike's DVRO
Speaker 1: was set to expire or renew once again. But before
Speaker 1: that happened, Mike was in for a surprise. He was
Speaker 1: about to discover the nightmare he'd lived through with Laura
Speaker 1: Owens was part of a viral story and thousands of
Speaker 1: people online wanted to hear from him.
Speaker 2: At some point I saw mm and I was like,
Speaker 2: are they talking about me?
Speaker 1: Up to this point, we've been telling the story of
Speaker 1: each individual case Clayton eckered Greg Gillespie and Mike Marriccini,
Speaker 1: But in the spring of twenty twenty four, in the
Speaker 1: lead up to Clayton's trial, their world's collided. The three
Speaker 1: of them teamed up with the Internet detectives like Dave
Speaker 1: Neil and Schnitzel Ninja. So we're going to pick up
Speaker 1: where we left off and tell the story of how
Speaker 1: they all came together to support each other and try
Speaker 1: to get justice. In twenty twenty two, Greg Gillespie heard
Speaker 1: about Mike Marraccini's experience. Greg sent him a friend request.
Speaker 1: Here's Mike, and.
Speaker 2: I'm sitting there like, I do not want this back
Speaker 2: on my radar. That's the last thing I want. You
Speaker 2: tried to friend request me, and I had just gone
Speaker 2: through deleting everybody because Laura was watching me on social media,
Speaker 2: so I had, I think, probably like a thousand plus
Speaker 2: people in just purgatory of my social media and I
Speaker 2: never accepted his friend request.
Speaker 1: Greg's friend request went unanswered for over a year until
Speaker 1: December twenty twenty three.
Speaker 2: I was doing New Year's Resolutions with my wife, who
Speaker 2: were sitting on the couch, and she was asking me,
Speaker 2: if there's something you could change over the last year,
Speaker 2: what would you have done differently.
Speaker 1: The answer came to Mike immediately.
Speaker 2: I should have reached out and I should have accepted
Speaker 2: Greg Gillespie's friend request, just knowing that I've gone through
Speaker 2: the same experience and just been somebody to talk with.
Speaker 2: I told her that was by far my biggest regret,
Speaker 2: and she said, why don't you change that.
Speaker 1: Here's Mike's wife, Danielle, and.
Speaker 9: So he pulled it up and he accepted it. So
Speaker 9: we saw the couch for probably the next thirty minutes
Speaker 9: crafting this message together.
Speaker 1: For years, Mike thought he'd been the only one. Now
Speaker 1: he was writing to someone who'd been through the same
Speaker 1: ringer with Laura.
Speaker 2: So I sent him a message apologizing like, Hey, I'm
Speaker 2: so sorry for what you've gone through. I know what
Speaker 2: it's like to deal with this person and they're consistent chaos.
Speaker 2: I'm just really really sorry that I wasn't there for you.
Speaker 2: And he responded very quickly and said like, hey, Mike,
Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. If you ever want to set
Speaker 2: up a call to chat, sometimes more than happy to.
Speaker 1: Mike thought they were a club of two. That's when
Speaker 1: Greg broke the news.
Speaker 10: He goes, you haven't heard dot dot dot.
Speaker 1: There was another guy, same trap, same tactics.
Speaker 9: And I was like, wait, there's another guy, and our
Speaker 9: eyes just popped out of our heads. And then he
Speaker 9: sends like an article, and Mike and I were like
Speaker 9: what the fuck.
Speaker 1: It turns out the other guy was kind of famous.
Speaker 2: I was like, who's Clayton. I don't know who Clayton is.
Speaker 1: Mike had never watched The Bachelor, so he typed Clayton's
Speaker 1: name into Google.
Speaker 2: It pops up immediately and it's like Reddit articles.
Speaker 1: There was an entire subreddit about Clayton and Laura. He
Speaker 1: started reading.
Speaker 2: At some point I saw mm and I was like,
Speaker 2: are they talking about me?
Speaker 1: That night, Mike and Danielle already had a date planned.
Speaker 1: Mike's mom was babysitting, so Mike and Danielle sat at
Speaker 1: a sushi restaurant and started scrolling. They had a lot
Speaker 1: of catching up to do. It was overwhelming to see
Speaker 1: the same pattern playing out a third time, and because
Speaker 1: of Clayton's fame, every small detail was public.
Speaker 2: And my wife breaks down at the restaurant, starts crying
Speaker 2: because she had doubted me at times when she had
Speaker 2: thought to herself like though, I don't believe that you
Speaker 2: ever hit her, did things like that, but I'm sorry
Speaker 2: forever even doubting you. We were at the bar. I'm
Speaker 2: sure that the sushi chefs are like, what is going
Speaker 2: on with these toodays? Haven't talked all night with both
Speaker 2: on their phone, and now they're crying.
Speaker 1: Mike thought his relationship with Laura was a traumatic, one
Speaker 1: off event, but now court documents from his case were
Speaker 1: being shared online, analyzed by YouTubers and content creators. Thousands
Speaker 1: of strangers had become incredibly invested in trying to prove
Speaker 1: Laura's lies, like the woman who goes by the user
Speaker 1: name Schnitzel Ninja.
Speaker 11: I found out about Mike Marraccini early on in the
Speaker 11: coverage of the case, and his court documents had been
Speaker 11: obtained from the San Francisco Courthouse, and I went through those,
Speaker 11: and the story just did not make sense to me.
Speaker 1: If Mike went through something similar to what Clayton was
Speaker 1: going through, he could be the key to finally exposing
Speaker 1: Laura's pattern.
Speaker 11: To find out there was this other person who actually
Speaker 11: dated her for a year and a half, my mind
Speaker 11: was blown.
Speaker 1: But first someone needed to reach out and see if
Speaker 1: Mike would be willing to talk.
Speaker 11: So I sent him a fairly lengthy message, just explaining
Speaker 11: who I was, why I was reaching out, that I
Speaker 11: was sorry he had been through what he had been through,
Speaker 11: and wondering if he was willing or interested in talking,
Speaker 11: and I wanted to give him more information about the
Speaker 11: case if he hadn't heard yet. That was the other thing.
Speaker 11: Did he even know about Clayton. I didn't even know
Speaker 11: for sure at the time. If he knew about Greg Gillespie.
Speaker 11: I reached out to him to see if he wanted
Speaker 11: to have a conversation with me, not expecting that he would,
Speaker 11: but it turned out he did.
Speaker 1: She wanted to be transparent about who she was, so
Speaker 1: she messaged from her personal account instead of her anonymous
Speaker 1: user name.
Speaker 11: He was thinking about the fact that Mike had been
Speaker 11: through this himself. He was a real person who had
Speaker 11: been through this experience, so I wanted to put that
Speaker 11: personal touch on my reaching out to him, so it
Speaker 11: wasn't just a random person behind a screen or behind
Speaker 11: a phone. The next time I looked at my phone,
Speaker 11: I saw a message from him, and I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1: They started messaging. Making contact with Mike was a turning
Speaker 1: point for schnitze Ninja.
Speaker 11: I started feeling more compelled to be involved when I
Speaker 11: found out about Mike Marriccini. It's my opinion that she
Speaker 11: was lying about everything she claimed he.
Speaker 4: Did to her.
Speaker 1: Schnitzel Ninja had seen the TEDx talk and she didn't
Speaker 1: believe Laura's story.
Speaker 11: If this were someone I cared about, I would hope
Speaker 11: that if someone had the time or the resources, whatever
Speaker 11: they had to give to help, I would hope that
Speaker 11: they would help. And I had time and I made time,
Speaker 11: So Mike was really the case that kind of drew
Speaker 11: me in further.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Mike was playing catch up reading everything he could
Speaker 1: find about Clayton and Laura's case. He couldn't believe it,
Speaker 1: and soon after he found out, Mike decided to DM Clayton.
Speaker 2: It's like, Hey, I don't even know if you're going
Speaker 2: to see this. You got a lot of followers. I'm
Speaker 2: going to probably go into the message abyss, but I
Speaker 2: just want to say how sorry I am that you're
Speaker 2: dealing with this individual. I've dealt with her and I'm
Speaker 2: so sorry. If you ever want to talk, I'm more
Speaker 2: than happy to chat. And within two minutes he responds,
Speaker 2: and I remember it starts talking. He goes, I know
Speaker 2: exactly where you are, and he wants to set up
Speaker 2: the phone.
Speaker 1: So Mike and Clayton hopped on the phone.
Speaker 12: It was surreal at first to obviously find out that
Speaker 12: there's now another individual that went through this, but my
Speaker 12: story really paled in comparison to Mike because Mike actually
Speaker 12: dated Laura, which was mind blowing when I found that out,
Speaker 12: and to know that he had been going through this
Speaker 12: for six plus years. I mean, this is an ongoing
Speaker 12: battle he was facing. And the great thing, as I
Speaker 12: found out very quickly, was he had incredible support from
Speaker 12: his wife that was helping him through this troubling time.
Speaker 12: But ultimately he wanted to reach out and let me
Speaker 12: know that I wasn't alone. And the beautiful thing was
Speaker 12: is that his story was going to help me out
Speaker 12: so much. I did ask him a question of if
Speaker 12: he had saved anything from that time with Laura, whether
Speaker 12: he had any photos or text or anything of the matter.
Speaker 1: When Mike connected with him, Clayton was preparing for him
Speaker 1: his family court trial with Laura, the same one you
Speaker 1: heard about in episode seven.
Speaker 2: I told him, all, hey, I don't really have anything.
Speaker 1: Mike spent years trying to put enough space between himself
Speaker 1: and the chaos Laura created.
Speaker 2: I deleted every photo with this person. I want nothing
Speaker 2: to do with this individual. I deleted all my text
Speaker 2: messages from my phone. I have nothing to be able
Speaker 2: to offer you, guys. I can just be there as
Speaker 2: like support.
Speaker 1: In the lead up to Clayton's family court trial, he
Speaker 1: and his lawyers were looking for verifiable evidence of Laura's pattern,
Speaker 1: so Clayton pushed Mike to take a second.
Speaker 2: Look, I'll never forget. I was talking with Clayton and
Speaker 2: he said, like, do you have like a laptop or
Speaker 2: anything like sometimes iCloud will store this information for you.
Speaker 2: So I go and I look at my storage here
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, I still have this thing. It's
Speaker 2: completely dead.
Speaker 1: Mike didn't even have a charger for his old laptop.
Speaker 1: His wife Danielle had to track one down on Facebook marketplace.
Speaker 2: I have no idea if there's anything on it, so
Speaker 2: I'm just pracking this thing up and for fun.
Speaker 1: Somehow, Dave Neil heard about Mike's laptop and he heard
Speaker 1: it might have some messages from Laura Owens on it.
Speaker 1: Here's Dave Neil.
Speaker 3: When I think of Mike's laptop, I just think of
Speaker 3: it like sitting alone in a giant room in a
Speaker 3: museum with just a spotlight sitting on it.
Speaker 1: Dave got in touch with Mike and.
Speaker 3: He's like, listen, I'm afraid to open it. My iCloud,
Speaker 3: my delete things. I don't know what's in there. But
Speaker 3: he was like, I think I have text messages from
Speaker 3: Laura and boy, he had no idea what was in
Speaker 3: that laptop.
Speaker 1: When they finally powered it on It's.
Speaker 2: Got everything, absolutely everything, every message that has ever been
Speaker 2: sent to and from, every photo, every single item.
Speaker 1: Immediately, Dave Neil jumped into help. First priority was making
Speaker 1: sure everything on that laptop was backed up. Second, if
Speaker 1: any of Mike's evidence was ever going to be used
Speaker 1: in court, it would need to be authenticated by a
Speaker 1: computer forensics expert, which would run about thirty five hundred dollars.
Speaker 1: Dave had been covering Laura's story for about a year.
Speaker 1: He knew how Laura operated. When confronted with proof, he.
Speaker 3: Couldn't just present an email from her. She'd say it
Speaker 3: was made up. Someone hacked in dog ate my homework.
Speaker 3: She's made every claim to get out of everything. So
Speaker 3: we said, we need to hire someone who's a professional
Speaker 3: that goes into court and tells other people this is real.
Speaker 1: You already know what Dave's about to do next.
Speaker 3: So we do a fundraiser. Before I hit publish on
Speaker 3: the live stream, before we went live, we already hit
Speaker 3: the thirty five hundred bucks.
Speaker 1: The fund secured. Mike got in the car and drove
Speaker 1: about an hour away to meet the forensic expert. Here's Mike.
Speaker 2: I felt like I was holding like a newborn baby.
Speaker 2: I was like gripping it so tight that I was
Speaker 2: just like, please do not drop this, do not get
Speaker 2: a car accident, because I had to drive it like
Speaker 2: an hour to this individual to authenticate it.
Speaker 1: When the report came back, the data was verified, the
Speaker 1: text messages Mike had from Laura were genuine and unaltered.
Speaker 3: We got the report back, it was legitimately like twenty
Speaker 3: five hundred pages and there's just absolutely no way she
Speaker 3: can deny that this exists.
Speaker 2: That was the first moment where I really just felt
Speaker 2: like people believed in me and wanted to see my
Speaker 2: innocence be shown and like the truth to come out.
Speaker 2: Because I had been fighting her for so long.
Speaker 1: And helped Clayton's defense, Mike was finding validation he didn't
Speaker 1: know he needed. He was grateful for the community who
Speaker 1: believed and supported him.
Speaker 2: I'll never forget that moment. It was really really powerful
Speaker 2: for me and just I'm so thankful for the community
Speaker 2: for what they did.
Speaker 1: So many of the discoveries you've heard about in the
Speaker 1: last few episodes were all coming together in the two
Speaker 1: months before Clayton's trial. Content creators Dave Neil and Megan
Speaker 1: Fox discovering the Fiverr logo, on the ultrasound, the altered
Speaker 1: hCG test, Chase J. Jones, and now Mike's laptop.
Speaker 11: All of the.
Speaker 3: Evidence seemingly came out at the same time. It was
Speaker 3: almost like Laura had this this damn that she was
Speaker 3: holding up with her own hands. The leaks were coming out,
Speaker 3: and she was very much like a cartoon just doing
Speaker 3: her about duct taping this thing shut, and then this
Speaker 3: laptop came out of nowhere.
Speaker 1: Dave was talking about the case almost every on his
Speaker 1: podcast and YouTube channel.
Speaker 3: We always say some light's the greatest disinfected. Everybody, get
Speaker 3: all the information you have, bring it to light. You
Speaker 3: might have something that looks stupid, bring it up. Let
Speaker 3: the public see. There's ten thousand people watching this. Someone's
Speaker 3: gonna see something you don't see.
Speaker 1: That's exactly what happened. As the Internet sleuths poured through documents,
Speaker 1: they found another man, a fourth man. All they had
Speaker 1: was a first name, Matt, but journalist Meghan Fox tracked
Speaker 1: him down.
Speaker 4: I find people a lot, I can find people. Finding
Speaker 4: him was one of the toughest things that I've done
Speaker 4: as a journalist.
Speaker 1: It turns out Matt and Laura met about two years
Speaker 1: before she met Mike Marriccini.
Speaker 4: So I basically got on Instagram and I sent everybody
Speaker 4: connected to him a message asking him to contact me
Speaker 4: because of this story that was happening.
Speaker 1: He got back to Meghan, or rather had his lawyer
Speaker 1: get back to me. Matt said he didn't want anything
Speaker 1: to do with Laura Owens, but in Laura's deposition with
Speaker 1: Greg wood Nick, she volunteered the information that there was
Speaker 1: a fourth man.
Speaker 7: How many men have you told that you were pregnant
Speaker 7: by them?
Speaker 10: A total of four?
Speaker 2: Okay, I want to go through them. Mike Marrishini correct.
Speaker 7: How many times did you tell Mike Marysheniy you're pregnant
Speaker 7: by him?
Speaker 10: Twice?
Speaker 2: Greg Gillespie once, Clayton Eckard once. Who's the fourth man?
Speaker 10: His name was Matt?
Speaker 2: Recall what year this was.
Speaker 10: Uh, twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen.
Speaker 2: How did that pregnancy end.
Speaker 10: That ended with a miscarriage?
Speaker 2: How far along were you allegedly? I was.
Speaker 10: Maybe six weeks.
Speaker 7: Was there ever a suggestion from Matt that the pregnancy
Speaker 7: was fabricated?
Speaker 6: Yes?
Speaker 7: Suggested your pregnancy was fabricated. Yes, Four men have alleged
Speaker 7: that you have claimed to be pregnant by them and
Speaker 7: that it was a lie.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 10: Correct.
Speaker 1: We've reached out to Matt for comment and didn't receive
Speaker 1: a reply. There's been a lot of online speculation about him.
Speaker 1: From what I've heard, Matt wants to stay far away
Speaker 1: from this story, which I completely understand, so out of
Speaker 1: respect for his choice, we're not going into any further
Speaker 1: details about him. A week before Clayton's family court trial,
Speaker 1: the witness list was published. As you know, Greg Gillespie
Speaker 1: and Mike Marriccini were on the list. Even though Mike
Speaker 1: was subpoena, He's still worried about what Laura would do
Speaker 1: if he showed up. He hadn't seen Laura in over
Speaker 1: five years, but she still had an active domestic violence
Speaker 1: restraining order against him. Mike's wife Danielle.
Speaker 10: He goes, what if I get arrested Danielle.
Speaker 1: When Mike and Danielle arrived at Clayton's trial, you'll remember,
Speaker 1: Laura's attorney called nine one one and tried to report
Speaker 1: that Mike was violating his restraining order.
Speaker 2: My nervous level went through the roof. Is on the
Speaker 2: phone with nine one one rattling off my details of
Speaker 2: what I'm wearing, my height, what color my shirt is,
Speaker 2: what color my shoes are, So then I'm fully rattled.
Speaker 1: Clayton's lawyer, would Nick tried to reassure Mike and Danielle.
Speaker 9: I guess remember Woodnick being like, we've got you. Don't worry.
Speaker 9: You have a subpoena. They cannot do anything. This is
Speaker 9: a courthouse. You have a right to be here.
Speaker 1: Wood Nick was right. Mike and Danielle took a seat
Speaker 1: in the back. His heart was racing. After everything he'd
Speaker 1: been through with Laura, the last place he wanted to
Speaker 1: be was in the same room as her.
Speaker 2: I just really am scared of her more than she's
Speaker 2: scared of me.
Speaker 1: Danielle held his hand as Laura entered the courtroom.
Speaker 9: To see the man who is my protector not just
Speaker 9: of me, but of my daughters, now just crumble in
Speaker 9: fear to this person is such a infuriating feeling. And
Speaker 9: when she walked in, my husband was just a shaking mess.
Speaker 2: My wife probably scared at her the entire thirty minutes
Speaker 2: she was up there, But I never made eye contact
Speaker 2: and I never laughed during her ridiculous comments.
Speaker 1: Mike didn't know if they would have time to call
Speaker 1: him to the stand because the trial was timed, but
Speaker 1: if they did, he was ready.
Speaker 2: I originally went to the jew tenth hearing with full
Speaker 2: intention to testify.
Speaker 1: In the end, there wasn't time in the trial to
Speaker 1: hear Mike's test stimony. But when he and Danielle reflect
Speaker 1: on what happened at the trial, when.
Speaker 2: I saw Laurgate cross examine get completely crushed, it made
Speaker 2: my mood much much better because they just caught her
Speaker 2: in so many different lives.
Speaker 9: When she had the balls to say that actually she
Speaker 9: had gone to a different planned parenthood that they didn't subpoena.
Speaker 9: That was probably one of the more memorable moments sitting
Speaker 9: in there.
Speaker 1: Even though they didn't have time to call Mike in
Speaker 1: the trial, his presence there made a difference to Clayton.
Speaker 12: It was really great to have their supports in the
Speaker 12: courtroom and for me also just to have a strong
Speaker 12: individual like Mike in my corner that balloted everything that
Speaker 12: I'd been through and was also willing to fight alongside me.
Speaker 12: That's why it was so important for me to.
Speaker 2: Have him there.
Speaker 1: Mike and Danielle remember exactly where they were when they
Speaker 1: read the judges ruling in Clayton's family court case.
Speaker 9: I like, finally a piece of this empire that she
Speaker 9: had built had been dismantled. I was like, this judge
Speaker 9: is not having it.
Speaker 2: Thought there was no repercussions. So that's why she thought
Speaker 2: she could just keep lying and getting away with it.
Speaker 2: And now she's paying the price.
Speaker 1: We're going to pick up where we left off at
Speaker 1: the end of Clayton's family court trial. After the judge's
Speaker 1: stern ruling, you might think that Laura would self reflect. Instead,
Speaker 1: she responded with indignation. She began a campaign against the
Speaker 1: family court judge who'd ruled against her, Judge Mata. It
Speaker 1: all started with a Medium blog post. The day after
Speaker 1: Judge Mada's ruling. Laura published this on her Medium account.
Speaker 1: It's title, well, when judges play doctor, ignoring ninety nine
Speaker 1: point nine percent medical certainty fer point one percent doubt,
Speaker 1: we're having a voice actor read an excerpt from it.
Speaker 8: On June eighteenth, the court ruled that a pregnant woman
Speaker 8: cannot be considered pregnant unless a judge agrees she is. Yes,
Speaker 8: you read that correctly, Apparently in a twist of medical
Speaker 8: and judicial logic, it is now up to the courts,
Speaker 8: not doctors, to diagnose pregnancy. Despite medical evidence and a
Speaker 8: ninety nine point nine percent certainty from an obgyn who
Speaker 8: has delivered more than twenty two thousand babies that I
Speaker 8: was pregnant, Judge Mada chose to believe the zero point
Speaker 8: one percent chance that my multiple positive pregnancy tests were
Speaker 8: due to something other than pregnancy. To add insult to injury,
Speaker 8: she has referred me to the Maricopa County Attorney for prosecution. Yes,
Speaker 8: you also read that correctly.
Speaker 1: Laura's blog post goes on to quote Judge Mada's ruling,
Speaker 1: citing passages and describing why the judge got it wrong.
Speaker 8: When I found out I was pregnant, I was lost
Speaker 8: and I didn't know what to do. My depression worsened,
Speaker 8: making it nearly impossible to think clearly or make decisions.
Speaker 8: In the ruling, the judge wrote, the court finds failure
Speaker 8: to seek in person care for a high risk pregnancy
Speaker 8: to be both unreasonable and uncreditable. This cold assessment ignored
Speaker 8: the severe depression I was grappling with, which made every
Speaker 8: moment of my pregnancy and emotional battlefield. In all honesty,
Speaker 8: the medical care choices I made weren't what I would
Speaker 8: have chosen and ideal circumstances. If this had been an
Speaker 8: expected pregnancy, I would have definitely sought proper care. But
Speaker 8: the circumstances were far from ideal, and the way Clayton
Speaker 8: treated me was terrible, leading to a restraining order being
Speaker 8: granted against him. The judge's opinion on what a reasonable
Speaker 8: person would have done doesn't take this into account, nor
Speaker 8: does it recognize the immense pressure I was under. Judge
Speaker 8: Mata then claimed that I have a pattern of similar,
Speaker 8: if not identical, behavior, and referred the case to the
Speaker 8: Maricopa County Attorney's Office for review. Really, this was the
Speaker 8: first and only paternity case I have filed. The legal
Speaker 8: issues involving two of my exes were entirely different. Yes,
Speaker 8: I was pregnant by both and had abortions, but the
Speaker 8: legal matters were unrelated to paternity.
Speaker 1: A few weeks after the ruling came down, Laura and
Speaker 1: her attorney filed to have Judge Mada removed from their case.
Speaker 1: They alleged that the judge was biased and prejudiced against
Speaker 1: Laura and therefore unable to preside over the case. I
Speaker 1: asked Clayton's lawyer, Greg Woodnick about Laura's claim.
Speaker 7: Judge Mate issued it very thoughtful, very detailed, multi page ruling.
Speaker 7: After that ruling came out, there was a filing by
Speaker 7: Miss Owens suggesting there was some sort of impropriety on
Speaker 7: the court level by the court, and that motion ended
Speaker 7: up getting addressed not by the trial court judge, but
Speaker 7: by the head of the Maraclep County Spear Court Family
Speaker 7: Law Division, and that judge disagreed with the filing by
Speaker 7: Miss Owens completely.
Speaker 1: That didn't stop Laura from taking it a step further.
Speaker 1: On November eleventh, twenty twenty four, she officially filed her
Speaker 1: appeal with the Arizona Court of Appeals.
Speaker 7: Briefs were filed by Laura. We filed responsive briefs. I
Speaker 7: think they filed some sort of reply to that, which
Speaker 7: they would be allowed to do at the appellate level.
Speaker 7: And then the Court of Appeals ruled on it, denying
Speaker 7: all of Laura's requests for relief.
Speaker 1: The decision from the Arizona Court of Appeals stated Owen's
Speaker 1: position on appeal is unreasonable.
Speaker 7: Laura wasn't happy with that, so she filed a motion
Speaker 7: for reconsideration, asking the Court of Appeals again to reconsider
Speaker 7: their ruling, and again they affirmed their denial. So the
Speaker 7: Court of Appeals essentially rejected the argument twice. They also
Speaker 7: ordered attorney's fees.
Speaker 1: Laura had already been knocked down twice, but she was
Speaker 1: still at it. Keep in mind, this was after Laura
Speaker 1: had been referred to the Maricopa County Attorney's office. But
Speaker 1: Laura had a right, as does any litigant, to ask
Speaker 1: that the Court of Appeals decisions be reviewed by a
Speaker 1: higher court, so that's what she did.
Speaker 7: Essentially, she asked the Arizona Supreme Court to consider it,
Speaker 7: and the Arizona Supreme Court declined to consider it and
Speaker 7: also ordered attorney's face.
Speaker 1: Multiple judges had now ruled against Laura. Each time her
Speaker 1: bill increased.
Speaker 7: She had an attorney's fees award in the trial court,
Speaker 7: the Court of Appeals, and ultimately the.
Speaker 2: Arizona Screme Court.
Speaker 1: That total came out to around one hundred and ninety
Speaker 1: six thousand dollars, and at the time I'm recording this,
Speaker 1: Laura hasn't paid that balance.
Speaker 7: I don't think she ever intended on paying it anyway.
Speaker 7: And the reason I say that is. I think there
Speaker 7: was a video recording of her and her attorney where
Speaker 7: they announced on a YouTube video that they produced that
Speaker 7: she had no intention of ever paying it.
Speaker 1: Here's the YouTube video when Nick is referencing, you'll hear
Speaker 1: Laura's attorney first.
Speaker 13: By the way, you can tell me if I'm not
Speaker 13: allowed to say this. But people are asking what are
Speaker 13: you gonna pay Clayton? Are you going to pay Clayton?
Speaker 13: I hope that you never pay Clayton. People think he's
Speaker 13: gonna put you in jail. We don't do that in America.
Speaker 13: If you have millions of dollars stashed away, he can
Speaker 13: go look for it. If you don't, he ain't getting nothing.
Speaker 13: You could file bankruptcy or you could just not. But
Speaker 13: either way, there's no legal requirement for you to post
Speaker 13: a bond. All that means is he can go after
Speaker 13: you and collect. But if you don't have the money
Speaker 13: to be collected, I don't. Yeah, well then guess what
Speaker 13: you get blood from a stone or you don't. So
Speaker 13: we're not going to post a bond for anything. You're
Speaker 13: not going to jail for non payment. That is not
Speaker 13: an option, and Clayton can just f often do whatever
Speaker 13: he's doing.
Speaker 2: I still wish the guy well ish.
Speaker 13: I mean, I'd want him to get some therapy and
Speaker 13: figure out, like, why am I such a dick.
Speaker 1: In the middle of the appeal process, Laura's attorney, David
Speaker 1: Jingris started posting YouTube videos, Some of them feature Laura.
Speaker 1: You heard clips from these in episode two. I'm going
Speaker 1: to take a detour into these videos for a moment.
Speaker 1: Let's start with this one from January twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2: I am David, you are Laura.
Speaker 13: You are Laura, and we are the dynamic duo of disaster,
Speaker 13: here to bring you a little bit of a post
Speaker 13: holiday treat, shall we say.
Speaker 1: You won't be surprised to learn that these videos have
Speaker 1: since been taken off YouTube, but things posted on the
Speaker 1: internet have a way of sticking around. This specific one
Speaker 1: was posted on x okay.
Speaker 2: So we're recording.
Speaker 13: Hello everyone, it's douche knoo and pregnancy FAKERYE.
Speaker 2: We have just I think you're supposed to look at
Speaker 2: the camera. See, I'm not a professional, you are.
Speaker 1: David Jingris joined Laura's case right before the trial with Clayton.
Speaker 1: According to Jingris, they didn't know each other before that.
Speaker 1: She reached out to him cold. Within less than a year,
Speaker 1: they began posting videos like these on David Jingris's YouTube channel.
Speaker 13: I feel like you and I are sort of Luke
Speaker 13: Skywalker and Princess Leah, and you know, Dave Neil's Darth Vader,
Speaker 13: or you know other people are job of the Hut.
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say.
Speaker 1: In total, they posted about five videos together on YouTube.
Speaker 1: Jingris posted another twenty or so with just him on
Speaker 1: the mic. In this video from December twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: he addresses why he's doing these in the first place.
Speaker 13: The YouTube comment section, it's a really mixed bag of
Speaker 13: people saying, why are.
Speaker 2: You doing this?
Speaker 13: Why are you, you know, throwing more fuel or oxygen
Speaker 13: on the fire? Are you really helping Laura's interests? Are
Speaker 13: you putting Laura's interest first? And you know, people, I
Speaker 13: understand the criticism, but at the same time, you know,
Speaker 13: there is no playbook. It's a bizarre situation that we're in.
Speaker 1: I can't tell whose idea it was to make these videos.
Speaker 1: They were posted on Jingris's YouTube channel, but Laura's clearly
Speaker 1: an active participant.
Speaker 13: You obviously approve whatever I post, and I'm doing this
Speaker 13: for you. I think I'm doing it for you.
Speaker 1: Some of the things they say are downright surreal.
Speaker 14: I was dating a guy from my high school who
Speaker 14: was my friend in high school, and I dated him
Speaker 14: through pretty much the end of senior year.
Speaker 2: Is that somebody that we know about or we can
Speaker 2: keep his name.
Speaker 14: Out of this if I think he's known as victim zero.
Speaker 14: Although we never slept together, so well.
Speaker 13: That doesn't that doesn't stop you from getting pregnant, as
Speaker 13: we know.
Speaker 2: But I'm bump rim.
Speaker 4: Shot absolutely right.
Speaker 1: In this one from December thirteenth, twenty twenty four, Jingris
Speaker 1: is wearing a Santa suit complete with the beard. Behind
Speaker 1: him is a bag of coal with the list of
Speaker 1: names on it. The first names on the list Dave
Speaker 1: and Megan, presumably content creators Dave Neil and Megan Fox.
Speaker 2: I mean, look, it's Laura, it's Christmas time.
Speaker 13: I've got a naughty list here of people that will
Speaker 13: be getting lumps of coal.
Speaker 9: I love your naughty list.
Speaker 2: I know it had to do it.
Speaker 1: The video was titled Bachelor Paternity Scandal. Laura confesses all
Speaker 1: to Santa.
Speaker 13: Did you ever see that movie Fatal Attraction, Glenn Close?
Speaker 13: That might have been before your time? So again, I'm
Speaker 13: a lot older than you. So that movie was actually,
Speaker 13: you know, I don't forget what year it came out,
Speaker 13: nineteen eighty nine, ninety something like around that time.
Speaker 2: So you were like zero.
Speaker 13: But that movie was kind of terrifying for a lot
Speaker 13: of people, you know, because Glenn Close plays this woman
Speaker 13: who's like obsessed with Michael Douglas and she stalks him.
Speaker 13: They have one hookup and then she completely stalks him
Speaker 13: and his family. He's married, and she winds up boiling
Speaker 13: the bunny, the guy, the family bunny.
Speaker 2: She boils it on the stove. Did you know that?
Speaker 15: No?
Speaker 13: You ever heard that phrase bunny boiler?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 13: No, So it comes from that movie because Glenn Close
Speaker 13: is obsessed with Michael Douglass and he doesn't want to
Speaker 13: have a relationship with her because he's cheating on his wife.
Speaker 2: Basically is what happened.
Speaker 13: And Glenn Close doesn't take no for an answer, so
Speaker 13: she keeps stalking him, breaking into his house or whatever,
Speaker 13: and she broke in and stole the family bunny and
Speaker 13: boiled it in a.
Speaker 2: Pot on the stove.
Speaker 13: I feel like people think that you're in that ballpark. Okay,
Speaker 13: so let's try to talk about why you're not.
Speaker 1: Here's another clip from the Santa video.
Speaker 13: We talked about the fact that filing a paternity case,
Speaker 13: if you knew that you weren't pregnant, would be the
Speaker 13: dumbest thing that you could do. It wouldn't It wouldn't
Speaker 13: work for one thing, and it would guarantee you that
Speaker 13: your lie would be exposed as quickly as possible. And
Speaker 13: I've said before that it's like a drunk driver, a
Speaker 13: guy you know that your ship phrase drunk, and you
Speaker 13: deliberately go to up to a cop and you say, hey, bro,
Speaker 13: can you test me? You wouldn't ever do no person.
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess.
Speaker 13: I guess if you were mentally ill or so drunk
Speaker 13: that you forgot your name, that might make sense to you.
Speaker 13: I don't see that in you, Laura. I don't see
Speaker 13: you as being a crazy person. You're a little different.
Speaker 13: I'm a little different. Everyone's a little different. But you're
Speaker 13: smart enough, I think to know that filing a paternity
Speaker 13: case when you know that you're not pregnant, when you
Speaker 13: know that you fake the whole thing, When you know
Speaker 13: that there is no sonogram, when you know that there
Speaker 13: is no baby, you are literally inviting the court to
Speaker 13: test you. Right, you are exposing yourself to being exposed unnecessarily.
Speaker 1: The whole time, Laura is smiling and nodding along like
Speaker 1: she and Jingers are in on the same joke.
Speaker 13: And for you to go straight to court, you're either
Speaker 13: you were either pregnant or you're crazy. It's one or
Speaker 13: the other. If you're crazy, you know at some point
Speaker 13: we're going to figure this out. I just in eight months,
Speaker 13: I haven't seen it, and maybe I am maybe I
Speaker 13: am blind.
Speaker 1: Most attorneys advise their clients to keep quiet. In this case,
Speaker 1: Laura's attorney is actually doing most of the talking and
Speaker 1: putting it on the internet. I asked Clayton's attorney, Greg
Speaker 1: Woodnick about these videos.
Speaker 7: It was bizarre, and colleagues would say to me, you know,
Speaker 7: what the fuck? And my response was, I don't know.
Speaker 7: I've never seen anything like this before. So if your
Speaker 7: question is how common this is, the answer is never,
Speaker 7: I've never seen this before. I can tell you. The
Speaker 7: chorus of communications I have received from attorneys in this
Speaker 7: community has been unanimous regarding how unique their presentation has
Speaker 7: been on social media.
Speaker 1: As you'll recall, after Judgemda's ruling, In the June tenth
Speaker 1: family court trial, she referred Laura's case to the county attorney,
Speaker 1: a woman named Rachel Mitchell. In one of these videos,
Speaker 1: Laura and Jingers addressed the criminal investigation an even joke
Speaker 1: about what might be on the horizon.
Speaker 13: You and I are on a journey together here, We're
Speaker 13: going to get there, We're going to get through, hopefully Christmas, Laura.
Speaker 13: If Rachel Mitchell comes knocking, if the journey involves a
Speaker 13: stop through Rachel mitchell territory, that's okay.
Speaker 2: You'll come out the other side.
Speaker 13: Donald Trump has been indicted four times.
Speaker 2: He's going to the White House, you know.
Speaker 13: I mean, anyway, it's Christmas time, people, and I just
Speaker 13: think it's time to move on.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 13: I hope that Rachel Mitchell doesn't give you shiny new
Speaker 13: bracelets as your Christmas present.
Speaker 1: On the next episode of Love Trapped, Laura was in
Speaker 1: for a route awakening. She was about to find out
Speaker 1: how serious County Attorney Rachel Mitchell was. In January twenty
Speaker 1: twenty five, Laura got a knock on her door.
Speaker 2: Laura Scott Stale police.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't even seven o'clock in the morning on
Speaker 1: the phone with my attorney.
Speaker 6: I'll put him on the phone right now.
Speaker 15: It's my attorney, David Tingris, my attorney, David Ingers.
Speaker 8: I don't know who you guys aren't even savage.
Speaker 15: You think I'm authority to search for eleven o'clock in
Speaker 15: the morning, but the police are there lay.
Speaker 2: That.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to
Speaker 1: follow Love Trapped on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and please leave us
Speaker 1: a review. A five star rating helps others find this show.
Speaker 1: We're grateful for your support. If you would like to
Speaker 1: reach out to the Love Trapped team or have a
Speaker 1: similar story to share, email us at Love Trapped pod
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. That's Love Trapped pod at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com. Love Trapped is a production of Glass Podcasts,
Speaker 1: a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 1: This show was executive produced by Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning
Speaker 1: and Ben Fetterman, written, produced, and hosted by me Stephanie Young.
Speaker 1: Our story editor is Monique La. Board producer on this
Speaker 1: episode is Sidney Gladou. Additional production support from Todd Gans.
Speaker 1: Our production manager is Kristin Melchiri for iHeart Podcasts. Ali
Speaker 1: Perry was our executive producer. Audio editing and mastering by
Speaker 1: Anna McLain. Additional editing support by Tanner Robbins and Matt Delvecchio.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our voice actor Leslie Tolly. This podcast
Speaker 1: was developed in collaboration with Danny Passman and Lev Abramoff
Speaker 1: at Crybaby Media. The Love Trapped theme is composed by
Speaker 1: Oliver Bains. Music library provided by Mybe Music. A special
Speaker 1: thanks to Carrie Lieberman, Will Pearson, Jessica Crincheck, Ali Canter
Speaker 1: and the entire iHeart podcast team. And for more podcasts
Speaker 1: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts