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Speaker 1: When Mike Marraccini ended his year and a half long

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Speaker 1: entanglement with Laura Owens, he wanted to be done with her.

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Speaker 2: I deleted everything on my phone. I didn't want to

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Speaker 2: read her name, I didn't want to see her face.

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to forget about that chapter in my

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Speaker 2: life because it was really a hard time for me.

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Speaker 1: But years later, Mike would find out that his experience

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Speaker 1: with Laura was the beginning of a pattern, one that

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Speaker 1: thousands of people online had become obsessed with. Maybe most

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Speaker 1: invested of all was Dave Neil.

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Speaker 3: It was almost like Laura had this damn that she

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Speaker 3: was holding up with her own hands. The leaks were

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Speaker 3: coming out, and she was very much like a cartoon,

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Speaker 3: just doing her bad duct taping this thing shut. And

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Speaker 3: then this laptop came out of nowhere.

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Speaker 1: Mike Marraccini's laptop. It had been gathering dust and storage

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Speaker 1: for almost five years.

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Speaker 3: When I think of Mike's laptop, I just think of

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Speaker 3: it like sitting alone in a giant room in a

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Speaker 3: museum with just a spotlight sitting on it.

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Speaker 1: Mike had no idea that all the information he'd deleted

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Speaker 1: could be recovered, and that the memories he'd tried so

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Speaker 1: hard to forget would soon become critical evidence.

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Speaker 3: They found thousands of pages of documents, but more telling

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Speaker 3: was just to show how damaging Laura was to Mike.

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Speaker 3: They unearthed things he had forgotten actually happened.

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Speaker 1: I'm Stephanie Young and this is love trapped.

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Speaker 4: There's no way.

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Speaker 2: You'd better believe.

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Speaker 3: I'll be raising ho the.

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Speaker 1: Hells if you ever, ever, ever, ever.

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Speaker 3: Trastic.

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Speaker 1: In the last episode you heard about Laura's year and

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Speaker 1: a half long relationship with Mike Marriccini, Laura planned a

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Speaker 1: trip to Iceland. According to Mike, it was part of

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Speaker 1: the radio show he'd been developing with Laura. The trip

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Speaker 1: was paid for.

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Speaker 2: It was lined up with things to do the entire

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Speaker 2: time we were in Iceland, so from start to finish,

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Speaker 2: there was an event every single day of something to

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Speaker 2: do to report back on at the end of the

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Speaker 2: trip for the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Today, he wonders who actually footed the bill for their

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Speaker 1: trip to Iceland. After recording multiple episodes of the radio

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Speaker 1: show with Laura, he asked her when he could expect

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Speaker 1: to see compensation.

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Speaker 5: I brought up that we were just working for free,

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Speaker 5: and I had spent like fifty plus hours on these podcasts,

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Speaker 5: being part of the edits being part of the research,

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Speaker 5: and that I wasn't going to do any more work

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Speaker 5: for free.

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Speaker 1: After he set this boundary, he says, Laura sent him

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Speaker 1: some money directly.

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Speaker 2: I was paid one time, and I think it was

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Speaker 2: like sixteen hundred dollars from Laura. I never got paid

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Speaker 2: through a station.

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Speaker 1: The radio contract Mike had been waiting for never came

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Speaker 1: to fruition. After that, he walked away, But looking back

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Speaker 1: almost ten years later, he wishes he'd never gotten on

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Speaker 1: that plane to Iceland. From what he remembers, the flight there.

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Speaker 2: Was miserable, more like maybe two hours in the flight,

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Speaker 2: she's hysterically crying. Hysterically crying, and this is probably like

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Speaker 2: at midnight. People around us are all turning around looking

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Speaker 2: at us, and she's like lifting off my headphones and saying,

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Speaker 2: please sock to me.

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Speaker 1: Laura has a very different version of what happened on

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Speaker 1: their Iceland trip. She told her story five years later

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Speaker 1: in a now infamous ted X talk.

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Speaker 6: He said that he didn't want to end our relationship,

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Speaker 6: but I couldn't understand why he didn't want you when

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Speaker 6: he treated me like he hated me, said that I

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Speaker 6: brought it out of him, that it was my fault,

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Speaker 6: that he'd never been violent before he met me, that

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Speaker 6: I was responsible for his transformation from the all American

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Speaker 6: boy to American psycho.

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Speaker 1: Anyone can start a TEDx chapter. The one Laura applied

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Speaker 1: to speak at was something called Tedex Mercer Island HS

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Speaker 1: Women HS seems to stand for high school. The chapter

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Speaker 1: Laura spoke at was organized by three high school sophomores

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Speaker 1: based in Seattle. On their website, the organizers say their

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Speaker 1: goal was to empower women in the Seattle area. We

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Speaker 1: don't know how Laura found this specific group or how

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Speaker 1: she became a speaker there, especially because Laura doesn't appear

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Speaker 1: to have any ties to Seattle. But once her TEDx

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Speaker 1: talk was published, Laura seemed to think she was making

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Speaker 1: a name for herself. She included the link to her

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Speaker 1: TEDx talk in her email signature. She also sent the

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Speaker 1: link to Greg Woodnick, the lawyer who was representing greg

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Speaker 1: La Lespie at the time. This was her proof of

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Speaker 1: her status as a public figure. Here's Woodnick.

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Speaker 7: Not only was there a link to her ted talk

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Speaker 7: which she was telling us about, but further down there

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Speaker 7: was this curious Italian last name in one of the links,

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Speaker 7: also attached to the name Laura Owens.

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Speaker 1: That curious Italian last name was Marcini. Woodneck's team tracked

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Speaker 1: Mike down and found him listed on a court docket

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Speaker 1: for a restraining order case Laura had filed against him.

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Speaker 1: Shortly after, wouldn't It got in touch with Mike, but

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Speaker 1: Mike didn't want anything to do with Laura Owens. Here's

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Speaker 1: what he remembers from that first phone call with Woodnick.

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Speaker 2: He's like, by the way, she's got a ted talk

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Speaker 2: about she. Did you know that I said about me?

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Speaker 2: Does she like say my name in it? It's like,

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Speaker 2: I think you should watch it.

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Speaker 1: So Mike went on YouTube and typed in Laura Owens

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Speaker 1: ted Talk.

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Speaker 2: That was the only time I had watched, like the

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Speaker 2: first thirty seconds of it.

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Speaker 1: To this day, Mike can't bring himself to watch the

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Speaker 1: whole thing.

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Speaker 2: It's absolutely crazy to watch knowing it's about me. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's crazy, say the least.

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Speaker 1: Even though Laura doesn't name him. Mike says he immediately

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Speaker 1: recognized Laura's story is about him.

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Speaker 2: When I watched, I was in such shock because I

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Speaker 2: know that she's referencing me the entire time, and it

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Speaker 2: doesn't take a rocket scientist to put that together. All

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Speaker 2: the views of those people that probably believed her and

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Speaker 2: were against me for the longest period of time, it's

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Speaker 2: a lot to take in. I had to turn it

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Speaker 2: off though, because it just, I mean, it was all

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Speaker 2: such complete lives. I just couldn't take anymore of it.

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Speaker 1: In the ted X talk, Laura presents as selfie she's

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Speaker 1: taken in a hospital bed. Her face looks bruised. She

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Speaker 1: claims this photo is proof of the physical abuse she'd

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Speaker 1: experienced with Mike in the months after their Iceland trip.

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Speaker 6: Here's where I was when I actually posted it, in

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Speaker 6: the hospital after my abuser and I had a particularly

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Speaker 6: rough night.

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Speaker 1: But here's the thing. Mike had seen this photo before,

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Speaker 1: or at least one that looked very similar. And when

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Speaker 1: I say very similar, I mean it looks like the

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Speaker 1: exact same photo. Laura sent it to him four months

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Speaker 1: before their trip to Iceland, and with the photo, she

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Speaker 1: texted him saying she was at the hospital in preparation

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Speaker 1: for an abortion she had scheduled the following day. This

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Speaker 1: is what she sent him, with her text read by

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Speaker 1: a voice actor.

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Speaker 8: I'm at the er. My doctor wants them to get

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Speaker 8: my fluids up so we can try to do the

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Speaker 8: procedure tomorrow. Can you be back tonight at my place

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Speaker 8: for sure? Looking bomb af on narcotics.

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Speaker 1: Even though Mike hadn't seen the TEDx talk, he was

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Speaker 1: painfully aware of the allegations Laura against him. That's because

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Speaker 1: on June ninth, twenty eighteen, Laura filed a temporary restraining

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Speaker 1: order against Mike Marriccini.

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Speaker 2: She had these two bulldog attorneys that were elite attorneys,

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Speaker 2: like extremely good, and these two people took a personal

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Speaker 2: with me. They thought that I was beating the crap

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Speaker 2: out of Laura.

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Speaker 1: According to her court records, it looks like Laura used

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Speaker 1: as San Francisco based legal clinic that specializes in free

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Speaker 1: legal services for survivors of domestic violence, sexual assault, and stalking.

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Speaker 1: I'm not naming this clinic because I don't think they

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Speaker 1: did anything wrong. Clinics like this exist for a reason.

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Speaker 1: It's their job to believe their clients, even if they

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Speaker 1: don't have any proof of the abuse. These kind of

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Speaker 1: free legal services for survivors, they can save lives. And importantly,

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Speaker 1: we know that falsified. Alligations of sexual abuse only account

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Speaker 1: for about five percent of all claims. In June twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: Mike had to give his sworn deposition to Laura's attorneys.

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Speaker 1: At the time, he just started dating someone new, Danielle.

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Speaker 9: I'm Danielle Marraccini and I am Mike Marriccini's wife.

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Speaker 1: From the very start of their relationship, Mike was open

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Speaker 1: about what he was going through with Laura Owens.

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Speaker 10: I feel like most of it was told. At least

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Speaker 10: the first month.

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Speaker 9: I knew that she had accused him of domestic violence,

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Speaker 9: and I did drive him to his deposition.

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Speaker 1: On the way to the deposition, Danielle remembers how nervous

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Speaker 1: Mike was.

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Speaker 10: He was incredibly anxious.

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Speaker 1: They'd only been dating for a few months. When Mike

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Speaker 1: got back in.

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Speaker 10: The car, he was just defeated.

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Speaker 1: The deposition was much more intense than he did expected.

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Speaker 1: Mike thought he was just going there to tell the truth.

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Speaker 9: I do remember him just saying how they can find

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Speaker 9: lies even though he's not actively lying, to frame him

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Speaker 9: as this like violent guy.

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Speaker 1: For example, Laura's attorneys asked him if he liked guns.

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Speaker 1: He was confused and said no. Then they brought up

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Speaker 1: an old social media photo where Mike is holding a rifle.

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Speaker 1: He says the picture was taken while he and friends

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Speaker 1: had been shooting clay pigeons at a firing range, but

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Speaker 1: Laura's attorneys used it to paint a picture of Mike

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Speaker 1: as a violent guy who wasn't being honest about his

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Speaker 1: relationship to guns.

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Speaker 2: It was posted deposition where my attorney's like, if you

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Speaker 2: go to a court, there's a high likelihood that they're

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Speaker 2: going to press for a five year restraining order or

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Speaker 2: a permanent restraining order if they find valid evidence. Now,

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Speaker 2: there was no valid evidence at the time, but she

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Speaker 2: was throwing everything at the wall. I feel like I'm

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Speaker 2: fighting a ghost. I don't have evidence, the support that

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Speaker 2: I didn't beat her up. I don't know how I

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Speaker 2: fight this.

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Speaker 1: Danielle took it all in.

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Speaker 9: I definitely felt hesitant at first, I think as most

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Speaker 9: women would, but ultimately it just was this feeling that

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Speaker 9: didn't track like the things that she was accusing him

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Speaker 9: of from the very short amount of time that I

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Speaker 9: had known him just didn't make sense. And I thought,

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Speaker 9: if this man did these egregious things, why would he

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Speaker 9: be telling me about them.

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Speaker 1: She decided to proceed with caution, but her friends were alarmed.

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Speaker 9: My friends did have then obligatory Hey, Danielle, those are

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Speaker 9: really scary accusations. Once a domestic violence perpetrator, always a

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Speaker 9: domestic violence perpetrator, and rightfully so did my friends warn

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Speaker 9: me about that.

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Speaker 1: But Danielle saw Mike as gentle, the kind of guy

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Speaker 1: who repeatedly went out of his way to be there

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Speaker 1: for her. Early on in their relationship, my.

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Speaker 9: Dad passed away a little less than two months of

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Speaker 9: knowing each other, Mike just said, I'm coming.

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Speaker 1: Mike made a five hour journey to be by her side,

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Speaker 1: and he was there a few months later when Danielle

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Speaker 1: received terrible news about her mom.

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Speaker 9: She passed away like two months after my dad. I

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Speaker 9: just remember crumpling to the floor and Mike was there.

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Speaker 9: It just told me everything that I had needed to

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Speaker 9: know about him very early on.

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Speaker 1: This is why she believed Mike when he told her

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Speaker 1: Laura's allegations were false.

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Speaker 2: I'm so thankful that she gave me a chance and

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Speaker 2: she stuck by me. Because we're now married with two

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Speaker 2: little ones.

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Speaker 1: Danielle's been there with Mike through his entire legal battle

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Speaker 1: with Laura Owens. After the deposition, Mike learned what he

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Speaker 1: was up against, a domestic violence restraining order.

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Speaker 2: I thought it was essentially like a civil restraining order,

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Speaker 2: but since we were in our relationship, it was considered

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Speaker 2: divestic files. That was not really explained to me clearly

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Speaker 2: when it was happening.

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Speaker 1: The DVRO Laura's attorneys proposed would expire or renew after

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Speaker 1: two years, and there was a mutual stipulation neither of

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Speaker 1: them could come within three hundred feet of the other.

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Speaker 1: That was appealing to Mike because he had no desire

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Speaker 1: to see her or speak with her anyways, So he

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Speaker 1: signed it, not fully understanding what he'd just done. He

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Speaker 1: sent it to his attorney and wrote in the email quote,

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Speaker 1: this was so difficult for me to sign, knowing I

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Speaker 1: never laid a hand on this woman, and this will

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Speaker 1: be on my record for life.

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Speaker 2: When I agreed to the two year restraining order, my

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Speaker 2: attorney's like, let's just hope that she moves on with

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Speaker 2: her life. Let's hope she finds love. I was like, amen, sister,

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Speaker 2: So that's what I thought I was signing up for,

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Speaker 2: Like a two year it goes away in retrospect.

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Speaker 1: Mike wishes he fought the DVRO harder, but at the

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Speaker 1: time he believed his lawyer when she said this would

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Speaker 1: be resolved. In two years after signing the DVRO, Mike

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Speaker 1: and his wife Danielle, tried to move on with their lives,

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Speaker 1: but that document would impact them in ways they didn't expect.

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Speaker 2: I noticed that when I would go through the process

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Speaker 2: of getting a new job, I would make it to

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Speaker 2: the final and they were like, hey, here's your verbal

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Speaker 2: offer pending background check. The first time, I was like, oh, well, whatever,

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Speaker 2: nothing's going to show up, and then I didn't get

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Speaker 2: the job. I didn't realize until I pulled a background

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Speaker 2: check on myself that it shows up that I have

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Speaker 2: a domestic violence for straining order and it's active. I

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Speaker 2: would say that was the biggest piece of how it

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Speaker 2: really affected my relationship is being able to support provide

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Speaker 2: for my family because we ended up getting pregnant real

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Speaker 2: pregnancy in twenty twenty.

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Speaker 1: The DVRO had turned into an albatross hanging over both

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Speaker 1: of them. Then, in July of twenty twenty, Danielle her

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Speaker 1: a knock at the front door.

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Speaker 9: I was probably four or five months pregnant when the

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Speaker 9: attorney came to our door and she was like, is

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Speaker 9: Michael Marraccini here? And I was like, who are you?

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Speaker 9: I'm not telling you yes or no? Why are you

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Speaker 9: here at my house?

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Speaker 1: Mike came to the door and stepped outside with the attorney.

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Speaker 1: It turns out the two years were.

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Speaker 9: Up, and he comes back in and he was just like,

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Speaker 9: she's renewing, and I was like no, So it really

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Speaker 9: blindsided us. I just remember erupting into tears.

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Speaker 1: By September of twenty twenty, Mike was back in court

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Speaker 1: with Laura Owens. Mike went in person and Laura joined

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Speaker 1: on the phone.

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Speaker 2: I had seen her once in years I moved away,

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Speaker 2: and I thought, I was like, how is this impossible?

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Speaker 2: How can somebody renew when kind violated it.

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Speaker 1: Laura said she had proof that Mike violated the DVRO.

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Speaker 1: She produced a screenshot of one of Mike's Instagram stories.

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Speaker 1: He says his account was private and he had Laura blocked,

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Speaker 1: but somehow she had a picture he posted of a

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Speaker 1: smoothie he ordered at Barry's boot camp. Laura said that

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Speaker 1: Barry's is less than three hundred feet from her apartment,

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Speaker 1: but Mike had a rebuttal Barry's is a franchise. He

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Speaker 1: wasn't at the one next to her apartment.

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Speaker 2: I said, this is inaccurate. I was thirty miles away.

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Speaker 2: I was in a completely different city. This is my

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Speaker 2: gym blog with me Smoothie order.

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Speaker 1: In the end, it didn't matter if Mike had actually

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Speaker 1: violated the DBRO or not, because Laura was telling the

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00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:15,200
Speaker 1: judge she had reasonable apprehension of future abuse. In her renewal,

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Speaker 1: Laura said, without a restraining order, I would never feel

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Speaker 1: safe again. With that, the court renewed the domestic violence

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Speaker 1: restraining order. This time it would stay in place for

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Speaker 1: the next five years.

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Speaker 2: I sat there and I said to the judge. At

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Speaker 2: the very end, I was like, please make this a

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Speaker 2: civil restraining order, because this affects my livelihood of getting jobs.

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Speaker 2: My wife is pregnant, I am expecting a child here soon.

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Speaker 2: I would really appreciate this could be moved to a

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Speaker 2: civil restraining order. And they essentially told me now she

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Speaker 2: still fears for her life.

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Speaker 1: Danielle was devastated. This renewal came with shocking realizations.

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Speaker 9: We realized that she was never going to let him

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Speaker 9: out of her grip and that the justice system will

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Speaker 9: most likely never side with him.

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Speaker 1: Later on in this series, I traveled to San Francisco

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Speaker 1: because at the end of twenty twenty five, Mike's DVRO

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00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,520
Speaker 1: was set to expire or renew once again. But before

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Speaker 1: that happened, Mike was in for a surprise. He was

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Speaker 1: about to discover the nightmare he'd lived through with Laura

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Speaker 1: Owens was part of a viral story and thousands of

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Speaker 1: people online wanted to hear from him.

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Speaker 2: At some point I saw mm and I was like,

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Speaker 2: are they talking about me?

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Speaker 1: Up to this point, we've been telling the story of

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Speaker 1: each individual case Clayton eckered Greg Gillespie and Mike Marriccini,

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Speaker 1: But in the spring of twenty twenty four, in the

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Speaker 1: lead up to Clayton's trial, their world's collided. The three

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Speaker 1: of them teamed up with the Internet detectives like Dave

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Speaker 1: Neil and Schnitzel Ninja. So we're going to pick up

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Speaker 1: where we left off and tell the story of how

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Speaker 1: they all came together to support each other and try

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Speaker 1: to get justice. In twenty twenty two, Greg Gillespie heard

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Speaker 1: about Mike Marraccini's experience. Greg sent him a friend request.

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Speaker 1: Here's Mike, and.

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Speaker 2: I'm sitting there like, I do not want this back

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Speaker 2: on my radar. That's the last thing I want. You

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00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 2: tried to friend request me, and I had just gone

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Speaker 2: through deleting everybody because Laura was watching me on social media,

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Speaker 2: so I had, I think, probably like a thousand plus

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Speaker 2: people in just purgatory of my social media and I

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Speaker 2: never accepted his friend request.

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Speaker 1: Greg's friend request went unanswered for over a year until

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Speaker 1: December twenty twenty three.

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00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:10,119
Speaker 2: I was doing New Year's Resolutions with my wife, who

345
00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,000
Speaker 2: were sitting on the couch, and she was asking me,

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Speaker 2: if there's something you could change over the last year,

347
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Speaker 2: what would you have done differently.

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Speaker 1: The answer came to Mike immediately.

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Speaker 2: I should have reached out and I should have accepted

350
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Speaker 2: Greg Gillespie's friend request, just knowing that I've gone through

351
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Speaker 2: the same experience and just been somebody to talk with.

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Speaker 2: I told her that was by far my biggest regret,

353
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Speaker 2: and she said, why don't you change that.

354
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Speaker 1: Here's Mike's wife, Danielle, and.

355
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Speaker 9: So he pulled it up and he accepted it. So

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Speaker 9: we saw the couch for probably the next thirty minutes

357
00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,480
Speaker 9: crafting this message together.

358
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Speaker 1: For years, Mike thought he'd been the only one. Now

359
00:20:57,280 --> 00:20:59,439
Speaker 1: he was writing to someone who'd been through the same

360
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Speaker 1: ringer with Laura.

361
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Speaker 2: So I sent him a message apologizing like, Hey, I'm

362
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 2: so sorry for what you've gone through. I know what

363
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:13,600
Speaker 2: it's like to deal with this person and they're consistent chaos.

364
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Speaker 2: I'm just really really sorry that I wasn't there for you.

365
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Speaker 2: And he responded very quickly and said like, hey, Mike,

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Speaker 2: I really appreciate it. If you ever want to set

367
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Speaker 2: up a call to chat, sometimes more than happy to.

368
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 1: Mike thought they were a club of two. That's when

369
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:31,840
Speaker 1: Greg broke the news.

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Speaker 10: He goes, you haven't heard dot dot dot.

371
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Speaker 1: There was another guy, same trap, same tactics.

372
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 9: And I was like, wait, there's another guy, and our

373
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:49,760
Speaker 9: eyes just popped out of our heads. And then he

374
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 9: sends like an article, and Mike and I were like

375
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Speaker 9: what the fuck.

376
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Speaker 1: It turns out the other guy was kind of famous.

377
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Speaker 2: I was like, who's Clayton. I don't know who Clayton is.

378
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,480
Speaker 1: Mike had never watched The Bachelor, so he typed Clayton's

379
00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:12,240
Speaker 1: name into Google.

380
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:16,800
Speaker 2: It pops up immediately and it's like Reddit articles.

381
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 1: There was an entire subreddit about Clayton and Laura. He

382
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: started reading.

383
00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 2: At some point I saw mm and I was like,

384
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:28,119
Speaker 2: are they talking about me?

385
00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:32,560
Speaker 1: That night, Mike and Danielle already had a date planned.

386
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 1: Mike's mom was babysitting, so Mike and Danielle sat at

387
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:39,840
Speaker 1: a sushi restaurant and started scrolling. They had a lot

388
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 1: of catching up to do. It was overwhelming to see

389
00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: the same pattern playing out a third time, and because

390
00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 1: of Clayton's fame, every small detail was public.

391
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 2: And my wife breaks down at the restaurant, starts crying

392
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: because she had doubted me at times when she had

393
00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 2: thought to herself like though, I don't believe that you

394
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 2: ever hit her, did things like that, but I'm sorry

395
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,560
Speaker 2: forever even doubting you. We were at the bar. I'm

396
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,360
Speaker 2: sure that the sushi chefs are like, what is going

397
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 2: on with these toodays? Haven't talked all night with both

398
00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 2: on their phone, and now they're crying.

399
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:21,040
Speaker 1: Mike thought his relationship with Laura was a traumatic, one

400
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: off event, but now court documents from his case were

401
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:30,840
Speaker 1: being shared online, analyzed by YouTubers and content creators. Thousands

402
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:34,320
Speaker 1: of strangers had become incredibly invested in trying to prove

403
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:37,320
Speaker 1: Laura's lies, like the woman who goes by the user

404
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:38,560
Speaker 1: name Schnitzel Ninja.

405
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 11: I found out about Mike Marraccini early on in the

406
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 11: coverage of the case, and his court documents had been

407
00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 11: obtained from the San Francisco Courthouse, and I went through those,

408
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 11: and the story just did not make sense to me.

409
00:23:55,320 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 1: If Mike went through something similar to what Clayton was

410
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: going through, he could be the key to finally exposing

411
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: Laura's pattern.

412
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Speaker 11: To find out there was this other person who actually

413
00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 11: dated her for a year and a half, my mind

414
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 11: was blown.

415
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:12,679
Speaker 1: But first someone needed to reach out and see if

416
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 1: Mike would be willing to talk.

417
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 11: So I sent him a fairly lengthy message, just explaining

418
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,800
Speaker 11: who I was, why I was reaching out, that I

419
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:23,800
Speaker 11: was sorry he had been through what he had been through,

420
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 11: and wondering if he was willing or interested in talking,

421
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 11: and I wanted to give him more information about the

422
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,120
Speaker 11: case if he hadn't heard yet. That was the other thing.

423
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:37,959
Speaker 11: Did he even know about Clayton. I didn't even know

424
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,280
Speaker 11: for sure at the time. If he knew about Greg Gillespie.

425
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:42,920
Speaker 11: I reached out to him to see if he wanted

426
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 11: to have a conversation with me, not expecting that he would,

427
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 11: but it turned out he did.

428
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 1: She wanted to be transparent about who she was, so

429
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: she messaged from her personal account instead of her anonymous

430
00:24:57,720 --> 00:24:58,160
Speaker 1: user name.

431
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:02,880
Speaker 11: He was thinking about the fact that Mike had been

432
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 11: through this himself. He was a real person who had

433
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,919
Speaker 11: been through this experience, so I wanted to put that

434
00:25:09,080 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 11: personal touch on my reaching out to him, so it

435
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,639
Speaker 11: wasn't just a random person behind a screen or behind

436
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,840
Speaker 11: a phone. The next time I looked at my phone,

437
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,480
Speaker 11: I saw a message from him, and I couldn't believe it.

438
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,919
Speaker 1: They started messaging. Making contact with Mike was a turning

439
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: point for schnitze Ninja.

440
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:36,679
Speaker 11: I started feeling more compelled to be involved when I

441
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 11: found out about Mike Marriccini. It's my opinion that she

442
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 11: was lying about everything she claimed he.

443
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 4: Did to her.

444
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 1: Schnitzel Ninja had seen the TEDx talk and she didn't

445
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: believe Laura's story.

446
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 11: If this were someone I cared about, I would hope

447
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 11: that if someone had the time or the resources, whatever

448
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,920
Speaker 11: they had to give to help, I would hope that

449
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 11: they would help. And I had time and I made time,

450
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 11: So Mike was really the case that kind of drew

451
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 11: me in further.

452
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Mike was playing catch up reading everything he could

453
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 1: find about Clayton and Laura's case. He couldn't believe it,

454
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,040
Speaker 1: and soon after he found out, Mike decided to DM Clayton.

455
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:30,919
Speaker 2: It's like, Hey, I don't even know if you're going

456
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:32,720
Speaker 2: to see this. You got a lot of followers. I'm

457
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 2: going to probably go into the message abyss, but I

458
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: just want to say how sorry I am that you're

459
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,160
Speaker 2: dealing with this individual. I've dealt with her and I'm

460
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,400
Speaker 2: so sorry. If you ever want to talk, I'm more

461
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 2: than happy to chat. And within two minutes he responds,

462
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,199
Speaker 2: and I remember it starts talking. He goes, I know

463
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,439
Speaker 2: exactly where you are, and he wants to set up

464
00:26:59,520 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 2: the phone.

465
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 1: So Mike and Clayton hopped on the phone.

466
00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 12: It was surreal at first to obviously find out that

467
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,920
Speaker 12: there's now another individual that went through this, but my

468
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:15,640
Speaker 12: story really paled in comparison to Mike because Mike actually

469
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 12: dated Laura, which was mind blowing when I found that out,

470
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 12: and to know that he had been going through this

471
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:26,399
Speaker 12: for six plus years. I mean, this is an ongoing

472
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 12: battle he was facing. And the great thing, as I

473
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 12: found out very quickly, was he had incredible support from

474
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 12: his wife that was helping him through this troubling time.

475
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 12: But ultimately he wanted to reach out and let me

476
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 12: know that I wasn't alone. And the beautiful thing was

477
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 12: is that his story was going to help me out

478
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:50,520
Speaker 12: so much. I did ask him a question of if

479
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 12: he had saved anything from that time with Laura, whether

480
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 12: he had any photos or text or anything of the matter.

481
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: When Mike connected with him, Clayton was preparing for him

482
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: his family court trial with Laura, the same one you

483
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: heard about in episode seven.

484
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,679
Speaker 2: I told him, all, hey, I don't really have anything.

485
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: Mike spent years trying to put enough space between himself

486
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: and the chaos Laura created.

487
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 2: I deleted every photo with this person. I want nothing

488
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 2: to do with this individual. I deleted all my text

489
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,160
Speaker 2: messages from my phone. I have nothing to be able

490
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 2: to offer you, guys. I can just be there as

491
00:28:28,840 --> 00:28:29,400
Speaker 2: like support.

492
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: In the lead up to Clayton's family court trial, he

493
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:37,919
Speaker 1: and his lawyers were looking for verifiable evidence of Laura's pattern,

494
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 1: so Clayton pushed Mike to take a second.

495
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 2: Look, I'll never forget. I was talking with Clayton and

496
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 2: he said, like, do you have like a laptop or

497
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 2: anything like sometimes iCloud will store this information for you.

498
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,320
Speaker 2: So I go and I look at my storage here

499
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 2: and I'm like, oh, I still have this thing. It's

500
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 2: completely dead.

501
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: Mike didn't even have a charger for his old laptop.

502
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: His wife Danielle had to track one down on Facebook marketplace.

503
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 2: I have no idea if there's anything on it, so

504
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 2: I'm just pracking this thing up and for fun.

505
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: Somehow, Dave Neil heard about Mike's laptop and he heard

506
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 1: it might have some messages from Laura Owens on it.

507
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 1: Here's Dave Neil.

508
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 3: When I think of Mike's laptop, I just think of

509
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 3: it like sitting alone in a giant room in a

510
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 3: museum with just a spotlight sitting on it.

511
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: Dave got in touch with Mike and.

512
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 3: He's like, listen, I'm afraid to open it. My iCloud,

513
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 3: my delete things. I don't know what's in there. But

514
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 3: he was like, I think I have text messages from

515
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 3: Laura and boy, he had no idea what was in

516
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 3: that laptop.

517
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: When they finally powered it on It's.

518
00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 2: Got everything, absolutely everything, every message that has ever been

519
00:29:54,840 --> 00:30:01,680
Speaker 2: sent to and from, every photo, every single item.

520
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: Immediately, Dave Neil jumped into help. First priority was making

521
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: sure everything on that laptop was backed up. Second, if

522
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: any of Mike's evidence was ever going to be used

523
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: in court, it would need to be authenticated by a

524
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: computer forensics expert, which would run about thirty five hundred dollars.

525
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:23,400
Speaker 1: Dave had been covering Laura's story for about a year.

526
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:28,440
Speaker 1: He knew how Laura operated. When confronted with proof, he.

527
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 3: Couldn't just present an email from her. She'd say it

528
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 3: was made up. Someone hacked in dog ate my homework.

529
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 3: She's made every claim to get out of everything. So

530
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 3: we said, we need to hire someone who's a professional

531
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 3: that goes into court and tells other people this is real.

532
00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: You already know what Dave's about to do next.

533
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 3: So we do a fundraiser. Before I hit publish on

534
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 3: the live stream, before we went live, we already hit

535
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 3: the thirty five hundred bucks.

536
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 1: The fund secured. Mike got in the car and drove

537
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 1: about an hour away to meet the forensic expert. Here's Mike.

538
00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: I felt like I was holding like a newborn baby.

539
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,720
Speaker 2: I was like gripping it so tight that I was

540
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: just like, please do not drop this, do not get

541
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 2: a car accident, because I had to drive it like

542
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 2: an hour to this individual to authenticate it.

543
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: When the report came back, the data was verified, the

544
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 1: text messages Mike had from Laura were genuine and unaltered.

545
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 3: We got the report back, it was legitimately like twenty

546
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 3: five hundred pages and there's just absolutely no way she

547
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 3: can deny that this exists.

548
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 2: That was the first moment where I really just felt

549
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,680
Speaker 2: like people believed in me and wanted to see my

550
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,080
Speaker 2: innocence be shown and like the truth to come out.

551
00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 2: Because I had been fighting her for so long.

552
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 1: And helped Clayton's defense, Mike was finding validation he didn't

553
00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 1: know he needed. He was grateful for the community who

554
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 1: believed and supported him.

555
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: I'll never forget that moment. It was really really powerful

556
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 2: for me and just I'm so thankful for the community

557
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: for what they did.

558
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 1: So many of the discoveries you've heard about in the

559
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: last few episodes were all coming together in the two

560
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 1: months before Clayton's trial. Content creators Dave Neil and Megan

561
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: Fox discovering the Fiverr logo, on the ultrasound, the altered

562
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:39,000
Speaker 1: hCG test, Chase J. Jones, and now Mike's laptop.

563
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:40,080
Speaker 11: All of the.

564
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 3: Evidence seemingly came out at the same time. It was

565
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 3: almost like Laura had this this damn that she was

566
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 3: holding up with her own hands. The leaks were coming out,

567
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 3: and she was very much like a cartoon just doing

568
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 3: her about duct taping this thing shut, and then this

569
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 3: laptop came out of nowhere.

570
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:00,720
Speaker 1: Dave was talking about the case almost every on his

571
00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: podcast and YouTube channel.

572
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 3: We always say some light's the greatest disinfected. Everybody, get

573
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 3: all the information you have, bring it to light. You

574
00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 3: might have something that looks stupid, bring it up. Let

575
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 3: the public see. There's ten thousand people watching this. Someone's

576
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 3: gonna see something you don't see.

577
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: That's exactly what happened. As the Internet sleuths poured through documents,

578
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 1: they found another man, a fourth man. All they had

579
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 1: was a first name, Matt, but journalist Meghan Fox tracked

580
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 1: him down.

581
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:35,680
Speaker 4: I find people a lot, I can find people. Finding

582
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 4: him was one of the toughest things that I've done

583
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 4: as a journalist.

584
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 1: It turns out Matt and Laura met about two years

585
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 1: before she met Mike Marriccini.

586
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:49,000
Speaker 4: So I basically got on Instagram and I sent everybody

587
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,600
Speaker 4: connected to him a message asking him to contact me

588
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,480
Speaker 4: because of this story that was happening.

589
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: He got back to Meghan, or rather had his lawyer

590
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: get back to me. Matt said he didn't want anything

591
00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: to do with Laura Owens, but in Laura's deposition with

592
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: Greg wood Nick, she volunteered the information that there was

593
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 1: a fourth man.

594
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 7: How many men have you told that you were pregnant

595
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 7: by them?

596
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 10: A total of four?

597
00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 2: Okay, I want to go through them. Mike Marrishini correct.

598
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:20,080
Speaker 7: How many times did you tell Mike Marysheniy you're pregnant

599
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:20,560
Speaker 7: by him?

600
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 10: Twice?

601
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 2: Greg Gillespie once, Clayton Eckard once. Who's the fourth man?

602
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 10: His name was Matt?

603
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 2: Recall what year this was.

604
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 10: Uh, twenty fourteen, twenty fifteen.

605
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 2: How did that pregnancy end.

606
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 10: That ended with a miscarriage?

607
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 2: How far along were you allegedly? I was.

608
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:49,959
Speaker 10: Maybe six weeks.

609
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 7: Was there ever a suggestion from Matt that the pregnancy

610
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 7: was fabricated?

611
00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 6: Yes?

612
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:06,320
Speaker 7: Suggested your pregnancy was fabricated. Yes, Four men have alleged

613
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 7: that you have claimed to be pregnant by them and

614
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 7: that it was a lie.

615
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:12,440
Speaker 2: Correct.

616
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:15,439
Speaker 10: Correct.

617
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,520
Speaker 1: We've reached out to Matt for comment and didn't receive

618
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: a reply. There's been a lot of online speculation about him.

619
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: From what I've heard, Matt wants to stay far away

620
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: from this story, which I completely understand, so out of

621
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: respect for his choice, we're not going into any further

622
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: details about him. A week before Clayton's family court trial,

623
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:45,719
Speaker 1: the witness list was published. As you know, Greg Gillespie

624
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,799
Speaker 1: and Mike Marriccini were on the list. Even though Mike

625
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: was subpoena, He's still worried about what Laura would do

626
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: if he showed up. He hadn't seen Laura in over

627
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,080
Speaker 1: five years, but she still had an active domestic violence

628
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: restraining order against him. Mike's wife Danielle.

629
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 10: He goes, what if I get arrested Danielle.

630
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 1: When Mike and Danielle arrived at Clayton's trial, you'll remember,

631
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,720
Speaker 1: Laura's attorney called nine one one and tried to report

632
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,719
Speaker 1: that Mike was violating his restraining order.

633
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,880
Speaker 2: My nervous level went through the roof. Is on the

634
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 2: phone with nine one one rattling off my details of

635
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,120
Speaker 2: what I'm wearing, my height, what color my shirt is,

636
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,240
Speaker 2: what color my shoes are, So then I'm fully rattled.

637
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: Clayton's lawyer, would Nick tried to reassure Mike and Danielle.

638
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:38,160
Speaker 9: I guess remember Woodnick being like, we've got you. Don't worry.

639
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:42,719
Speaker 9: You have a subpoena. They cannot do anything. This is

640
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 9: a courthouse. You have a right to be here.

641
00:36:45,920 --> 00:36:48,759
Speaker 1: Wood Nick was right. Mike and Danielle took a seat

642
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 1: in the back. His heart was racing. After everything he'd

643
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 1: been through with Laura, the last place he wanted to

644
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: be was in the same room as her.

645
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 2: I just really am scared of her more than she's

646
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:02,759
Speaker 2: scared of me.

647
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: Danielle held his hand as Laura entered the courtroom.

648
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 9: To see the man who is my protector not just

649
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 9: of me, but of my daughters, now just crumble in

650
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 9: fear to this person is such a infuriating feeling. And

651
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,799
Speaker 9: when she walked in, my husband was just a shaking mess.

652
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,760
Speaker 2: My wife probably scared at her the entire thirty minutes

653
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 2: she was up there, But I never made eye contact

654
00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 2: and I never laughed during her ridiculous comments.

655
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: Mike didn't know if they would have time to call

656
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: him to the stand because the trial was timed, but

657
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: if they did, he was ready.

658
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 2: I originally went to the jew tenth hearing with full

659
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:55,800
Speaker 2: intention to testify.

660
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 1: In the end, there wasn't time in the trial to

661
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: hear Mike's test stimony. But when he and Danielle reflect

662
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 1: on what happened at the trial, when.

663
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,480
Speaker 2: I saw Laurgate cross examine get completely crushed, it made

664
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: my mood much much better because they just caught her

665
00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 2: in so many different lives.

666
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 9: When she had the balls to say that actually she

667
00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 9: had gone to a different planned parenthood that they didn't subpoena.

668
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 9: That was probably one of the more memorable moments sitting

669
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:28,439
Speaker 9: in there.

670
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: Even though they didn't have time to call Mike in

671
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: the trial, his presence there made a difference to Clayton.

672
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 12: It was really great to have their supports in the

673
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 12: courtroom and for me also just to have a strong

674
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 12: individual like Mike in my corner that balloted everything that

675
00:38:45,320 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 12: I'd been through and was also willing to fight alongside me.

676
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,520
Speaker 12: That's why it was so important for me to.

677
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 2: Have him there.

678
00:38:52,000 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: Mike and Danielle remember exactly where they were when they

679
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: read the judges ruling in Clayton's family court case.

680
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 9: I like, finally a piece of this empire that she

681
00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 9: had built had been dismantled. I was like, this judge

682
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:12,719
Speaker 9: is not having it.

683
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 2: Thought there was no repercussions. So that's why she thought

684
00:39:16,520 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 2: she could just keep lying and getting away with it.

685
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,240
Speaker 2: And now she's paying the price.

686
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,560
Speaker 1: We're going to pick up where we left off at

687
00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 1: the end of Clayton's family court trial. After the judge's

688
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: stern ruling, you might think that Laura would self reflect. Instead,

689
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,360
Speaker 1: she responded with indignation. She began a campaign against the

690
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: family court judge who'd ruled against her, Judge Mata. It

691
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: all started with a Medium blog post. The day after

692
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: Judge Mada's ruling. Laura published this on her Medium account.

693
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:03,440
Speaker 1: It's title, well, when judges play doctor, ignoring ninety nine

694
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,439
Speaker 1: point nine percent medical certainty fer point one percent doubt,

695
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:10,520
Speaker 1: we're having a voice actor read an excerpt from it.

696
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,720
Speaker 8: On June eighteenth, the court ruled that a pregnant woman

697
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 8: cannot be considered pregnant unless a judge agrees she is. Yes,

698
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:21,560
Speaker 8: you read that correctly, Apparently in a twist of medical

699
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 8: and judicial logic, it is now up to the courts,

700
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 8: not doctors, to diagnose pregnancy. Despite medical evidence and a

701
00:40:29,680 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 8: ninety nine point nine percent certainty from an obgyn who

702
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 8: has delivered more than twenty two thousand babies that I

703
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 8: was pregnant, Judge Mada chose to believe the zero point

704
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 8: one percent chance that my multiple positive pregnancy tests were

705
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 8: due to something other than pregnancy. To add insult to injury,

706
00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:51,600
Speaker 8: she has referred me to the Maricopa County Attorney for prosecution. Yes,

707
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 8: you also read that correctly.

708
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: Laura's blog post goes on to quote Judge Mada's ruling,

709
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: citing passages and describing why the judge got it wrong.

710
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 8: When I found out I was pregnant, I was lost

711
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:07,080
Speaker 8: and I didn't know what to do. My depression worsened,

712
00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 8: making it nearly impossible to think clearly or make decisions.

713
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 8: In the ruling, the judge wrote, the court finds failure

714
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,239
Speaker 8: to seek in person care for a high risk pregnancy

715
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:22,000
Speaker 8: to be both unreasonable and uncreditable. This cold assessment ignored

716
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:25,320
Speaker 8: the severe depression I was grappling with, which made every

717
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 8: moment of my pregnancy and emotional battlefield. In all honesty,

718
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,640
Speaker 8: the medical care choices I made weren't what I would

719
00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:36,120
Speaker 8: have chosen and ideal circumstances. If this had been an

720
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:40,640
Speaker 8: expected pregnancy, I would have definitely sought proper care. But

721
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 8: the circumstances were far from ideal, and the way Clayton

722
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 8: treated me was terrible, leading to a restraining order being

723
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 8: granted against him. The judge's opinion on what a reasonable

724
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,919
Speaker 8: person would have done doesn't take this into account, nor

725
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,200
Speaker 8: does it recognize the immense pressure I was under. Judge

726
00:41:59,239 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 8: Mata then claimed that I have a pattern of similar,

727
00:42:02,239 --> 00:42:05,480
Speaker 8: if not identical, behavior, and referred the case to the

728
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:10,000
Speaker 8: Maricopa County Attorney's Office for review. Really, this was the

729
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 8: first and only paternity case I have filed. The legal

730
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 8: issues involving two of my exes were entirely different. Yes,

731
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:20,880
Speaker 8: I was pregnant by both and had abortions, but the

732
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 8: legal matters were unrelated to paternity.

733
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: A few weeks after the ruling came down, Laura and

734
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,160
Speaker 1: her attorney filed to have Judge Mada removed from their case.

735
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,240
Speaker 1: They alleged that the judge was biased and prejudiced against

736
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: Laura and therefore unable to preside over the case. I

737
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:43,640
Speaker 1: asked Clayton's lawyer, Greg Woodnick about Laura's claim.

738
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 7: Judge Mate issued it very thoughtful, very detailed, multi page ruling.

739
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:52,160
Speaker 7: After that ruling came out, there was a filing by

740
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 7: Miss Owens suggesting there was some sort of impropriety on

741
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:59,480
Speaker 7: the court level by the court, and that motion ended

742
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:02,919
Speaker 7: up getting addressed not by the trial court judge, but

743
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 7: by the head of the Maraclep County Spear Court Family

744
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,560
Speaker 7: Law Division, and that judge disagreed with the filing by

745
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:10,680
Speaker 7: Miss Owens completely.

746
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 1: That didn't stop Laura from taking it a step further.

747
00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: On November eleventh, twenty twenty four, she officially filed her

748
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 1: appeal with the Arizona Court of Appeals.

749
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 7: Briefs were filed by Laura. We filed responsive briefs. I

750
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 7: think they filed some sort of reply to that, which

751
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 7: they would be allowed to do at the appellate level.

752
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 7: And then the Court of Appeals ruled on it, denying

753
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,280
Speaker 7: all of Laura's requests for relief.

754
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:40,440
Speaker 1: The decision from the Arizona Court of Appeals stated Owen's

755
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: position on appeal is unreasonable.

756
00:43:43,400 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 7: Laura wasn't happy with that, so she filed a motion

757
00:43:46,360 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 7: for reconsideration, asking the Court of Appeals again to reconsider

758
00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 7: their ruling, and again they affirmed their denial. So the

759
00:43:54,160 --> 00:43:58,719
Speaker 7: Court of Appeals essentially rejected the argument twice. They also

760
00:43:58,880 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 7: ordered attorney's fees.

761
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: Laura had already been knocked down twice, but she was

762
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: still at it. Keep in mind, this was after Laura

763
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: had been referred to the Maricopa County Attorney's office. But

764
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: Laura had a right, as does any litigant, to ask

765
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: that the Court of Appeals decisions be reviewed by a

766
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: higher court, so that's what she did.

767
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,920
Speaker 7: Essentially, she asked the Arizona Supreme Court to consider it,

768
00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 7: and the Arizona Supreme Court declined to consider it and

769
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 7: also ordered attorney's face.

770
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:36,920
Speaker 1: Multiple judges had now ruled against Laura. Each time her

771
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,200
Speaker 1: bill increased.

772
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:41,440
Speaker 7: She had an attorney's fees award in the trial court,

773
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,480
Speaker 7: the Court of Appeals, and ultimately the.

774
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:45,440
Speaker 2: Arizona Screme Court.

775
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,320
Speaker 1: That total came out to around one hundred and ninety

776
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: six thousand dollars, and at the time I'm recording this,

777
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: Laura hasn't paid that balance.

778
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:00,960
Speaker 7: I don't think she ever intended on paying it anyway.

779
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 7: And the reason I say that is. I think there

780
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 7: was a video recording of her and her attorney where

781
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 7: they announced on a YouTube video that they produced that

782
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:12,680
Speaker 7: she had no intention of ever paying it.

783
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,640
Speaker 1: Here's the YouTube video when Nick is referencing, you'll hear

784
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:17,920
Speaker 1: Laura's attorney first.

785
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 13: By the way, you can tell me if I'm not

786
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:22,440
Speaker 13: allowed to say this. But people are asking what are

787
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,720
Speaker 13: you gonna pay Clayton? Are you going to pay Clayton?

788
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,759
Speaker 13: I hope that you never pay Clayton. People think he's

789
00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 13: gonna put you in jail. We don't do that in America.

790
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 13: If you have millions of dollars stashed away, he can

791
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 13: go look for it. If you don't, he ain't getting nothing.

792
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:40,120
Speaker 13: You could file bankruptcy or you could just not. But

793
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 13: either way, there's no legal requirement for you to post

794
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 13: a bond. All that means is he can go after

795
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 13: you and collect. But if you don't have the money

796
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:50,319
Speaker 13: to be collected, I don't. Yeah, well then guess what

797
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,759
Speaker 13: you get blood from a stone or you don't. So

798
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 13: we're not going to post a bond for anything. You're

799
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:58,080
Speaker 13: not going to jail for non payment. That is not

800
00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:01,320
Speaker 13: an option, and Clayton can just f often do whatever

801
00:46:01,320 --> 00:46:01,759
Speaker 13: he's doing.

802
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 2: I still wish the guy well ish.

803
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,319
Speaker 13: I mean, I'd want him to get some therapy and

804
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 13: figure out, like, why am I such a dick.

805
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,240
Speaker 1: In the middle of the appeal process, Laura's attorney, David

806
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,920
Speaker 1: Jingris started posting YouTube videos, Some of them feature Laura.

807
00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: You heard clips from these in episode two. I'm going

808
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:24,840
Speaker 1: to take a detour into these videos for a moment.

809
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:28,600
Speaker 1: Let's start with this one from January twenty twenty five.

810
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:31,400
Speaker 2: I am David, you are Laura.

811
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 13: You are Laura, and we are the dynamic duo of disaster,

812
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 13: here to bring you a little bit of a post

813
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 13: holiday treat, shall we say.

814
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: You won't be surprised to learn that these videos have

815
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: since been taken off YouTube, but things posted on the

816
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 1: internet have a way of sticking around. This specific one

817
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: was posted on x okay.

818
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 2: So we're recording.

819
00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:00,120
Speaker 13: Hello everyone, it's douche knoo and pregnancy FAKERYE.

820
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 2: We have just I think you're supposed to look at

821
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,680
Speaker 2: the camera. See, I'm not a professional, you are.

822
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 1: David Jingris joined Laura's case right before the trial with Clayton.

823
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 1: According to Jingris, they didn't know each other before that.

824
00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,919
Speaker 1: She reached out to him cold. Within less than a year,

825
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: they began posting videos like these on David Jingris's YouTube channel.

826
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 13: I feel like you and I are sort of Luke

827
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 13: Skywalker and Princess Leah, and you know, Dave Neil's Darth Vader,

828
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 13: or you know other people are job of the Hut.

829
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna say.

830
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 1: In total, they posted about five videos together on YouTube.

831
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:39,719
Speaker 1: Jingris posted another twenty or so with just him on

832
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:43,080
Speaker 1: the mic. In this video from December twenty twenty four,

833
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:45,960
Speaker 1: he addresses why he's doing these in the first place.

834
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 13: The YouTube comment section, it's a really mixed bag of

835
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:51,520
Speaker 13: people saying, why are.

836
00:47:51,360 --> 00:47:51,880
Speaker 2: You doing this?

837
00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:54,920
Speaker 13: Why are you, you know, throwing more fuel or oxygen

838
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 13: on the fire? Are you really helping Laura's interests? Are

839
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 13: you putting Laura's interest first? And you know, people, I

840
00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:04,319
Speaker 13: understand the criticism, but at the same time, you know,

841
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,879
Speaker 13: there is no playbook. It's a bizarre situation that we're in.

842
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 1: I can't tell whose idea it was to make these videos.

843
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,760
Speaker 1: They were posted on Jingris's YouTube channel, but Laura's clearly

844
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:17,000
Speaker 1: an active participant.

845
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 13: You obviously approve whatever I post, and I'm doing this

846
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 13: for you. I think I'm doing it for you.

847
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,880
Speaker 1: Some of the things they say are downright surreal.

848
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:28,520
Speaker 14: I was dating a guy from my high school who

849
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,359
Speaker 14: was my friend in high school, and I dated him

850
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:35,359
Speaker 14: through pretty much the end of senior year.

851
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 2: Is that somebody that we know about or we can

852
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:38,240
Speaker 2: keep his name.

853
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 14: Out of this if I think he's known as victim zero.

854
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:45,600
Speaker 14: Although we never slept together, so well.

855
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 13: That doesn't that doesn't stop you from getting pregnant, as

856
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:48,040
Speaker 13: we know.

857
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:50,880
Speaker 2: But I'm bump rim.

858
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 4: Shot absolutely right.

859
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 1: In this one from December thirteenth, twenty twenty four, Jingris

860
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:02,320
Speaker 1: is wearing a Santa suit complete with the beard. Behind

861
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 1: him is a bag of coal with the list of

862
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,960
Speaker 1: names on it. The first names on the list Dave

863
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:12,760
Speaker 1: and Megan, presumably content creators Dave Neil and Megan Fox.

864
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 2: I mean, look, it's Laura, it's Christmas time.

865
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 13: I've got a naughty list here of people that will

866
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 13: be getting lumps of coal.

867
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:21,759
Speaker 9: I love your naughty list.

868
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 2: I know it had to do it.

869
00:49:24,520 --> 00:49:28,879
Speaker 1: The video was titled Bachelor Paternity Scandal. Laura confesses all

870
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 1: to Santa.

871
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:32,359
Speaker 13: Did you ever see that movie Fatal Attraction, Glenn Close?

872
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 13: That might have been before your time? So again, I'm

873
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:37,880
Speaker 13: a lot older than you. So that movie was actually,

874
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:39,600
Speaker 13: you know, I don't forget what year it came out,

875
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 13: nineteen eighty nine, ninety something like around that time.

876
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 2: So you were like zero.

877
00:49:44,000 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 13: But that movie was kind of terrifying for a lot

878
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 13: of people, you know, because Glenn Close plays this woman

879
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 13: who's like obsessed with Michael Douglas and she stalks him.

880
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 13: They have one hookup and then she completely stalks him

881
00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:58,280
Speaker 13: and his family. He's married, and she winds up boiling

882
00:49:58,280 --> 00:49:59,920
Speaker 13: the bunny, the guy, the family bunny.

883
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 2: She boils it on the stove. Did you know that?

884
00:50:03,239 --> 00:50:03,279
Speaker 15: No?

885
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:05,280
Speaker 13: You ever heard that phrase bunny boiler?

886
00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:06,920
Speaker 2: No?

887
00:50:06,920 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 13: No, So it comes from that movie because Glenn Close

888
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:11,239
Speaker 13: is obsessed with Michael Douglass and he doesn't want to

889
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:13,960
Speaker 13: have a relationship with her because he's cheating on his wife.

890
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:15,000
Speaker 2: Basically is what happened.

891
00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 13: And Glenn Close doesn't take no for an answer, so

892
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 13: she keeps stalking him, breaking into his house or whatever,

893
00:50:20,680 --> 00:50:23,600
Speaker 13: and she broke in and stole the family bunny and

894
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 13: boiled it in a.

895
00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:25,280
Speaker 2: Pot on the stove.

896
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 13: I feel like people think that you're in that ballpark. Okay,

897
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,359
Speaker 13: so let's try to talk about why you're not.

898
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 1: Here's another clip from the Santa video.

899
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 13: We talked about the fact that filing a paternity case,

900
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 13: if you knew that you weren't pregnant, would be the

901
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,160
Speaker 13: dumbest thing that you could do. It wouldn't It wouldn't

902
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:47,719
Speaker 13: work for one thing, and it would guarantee you that

903
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 13: your lie would be exposed as quickly as possible. And

904
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 13: I've said before that it's like a drunk driver, a

905
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 13: guy you know that your ship phrase drunk, and you

906
00:50:57,000 --> 00:50:59,239
Speaker 13: deliberately go to up to a cop and you say, hey, bro,

907
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 13: can you test me? You wouldn't ever do no person.

908
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:04,280
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess.

909
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 13: I guess if you were mentally ill or so drunk

910
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 13: that you forgot your name, that might make sense to you.

911
00:51:10,200 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 13: I don't see that in you, Laura. I don't see

912
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 13: you as being a crazy person. You're a little different.

913
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 13: I'm a little different. Everyone's a little different. But you're

914
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,720
Speaker 13: smart enough, I think to know that filing a paternity

915
00:51:21,800 --> 00:51:23,400
Speaker 13: case when you know that you're not pregnant, when you

916
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 13: know that you fake the whole thing, When you know

917
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 13: that there is no sonogram, when you know that there

918
00:51:26,680 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 13: is no baby, you are literally inviting the court to

919
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 13: test you. Right, you are exposing yourself to being exposed unnecessarily.

920
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:43,239
Speaker 1: The whole time, Laura is smiling and nodding along like

921
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: she and Jingers are in on the same joke.

922
00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 13: And for you to go straight to court, you're either

923
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 13: you were either pregnant or you're crazy. It's one or

924
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,359
Speaker 13: the other. If you're crazy, you know at some point

925
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:56,439
Speaker 13: we're going to figure this out. I just in eight months,

926
00:51:56,440 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 13: I haven't seen it, and maybe I am maybe I

927
00:51:58,560 --> 00:51:59,280
Speaker 13: am blind.

928
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:04,320
Speaker 1: Most attorneys advise their clients to keep quiet. In this case,

929
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 1: Laura's attorney is actually doing most of the talking and

930
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: putting it on the internet. I asked Clayton's attorney, Greg

931
00:52:12,040 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: Woodnick about these videos.

932
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 7: It was bizarre, and colleagues would say to me, you know,

933
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 7: what the fuck? And my response was, I don't know.

934
00:52:20,000 --> 00:52:22,239
Speaker 7: I've never seen anything like this before. So if your

935
00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:25,080
Speaker 7: question is how common this is, the answer is never,

936
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 7: I've never seen this before. I can tell you. The

937
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:34,920
Speaker 7: chorus of communications I have received from attorneys in this

938
00:52:35,000 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 7: community has been unanimous regarding how unique their presentation has

939
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:46,280
Speaker 7: been on social media.

940
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:49,880
Speaker 1: As you'll recall, after Judgemda's ruling, In the June tenth

941
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:53,800
Speaker 1: family court trial, she referred Laura's case to the county attorney,

942
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 1: a woman named Rachel Mitchell. In one of these videos,

943
00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:02,399
Speaker 1: Laura and Jingers addressed the criminal investigation an even joke

944
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: about what might be on the horizon.

945
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:06,560
Speaker 13: You and I are on a journey together here, We're

946
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:09,240
Speaker 13: going to get there, We're going to get through, hopefully Christmas, Laura.

947
00:53:09,440 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 13: If Rachel Mitchell comes knocking, if the journey involves a

948
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:17,239
Speaker 13: stop through Rachel mitchell territory, that's okay.

949
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 2: You'll come out the other side.

950
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,880
Speaker 13: Donald Trump has been indicted four times.

951
00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:23,560
Speaker 2: He's going to the White House, you know.

952
00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:28,840
Speaker 13: I mean, anyway, it's Christmas time, people, and I just

953
00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:30,520
Speaker 13: think it's time to move on.

954
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 2: You know.

955
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,319
Speaker 13: I hope that Rachel Mitchell doesn't give you shiny new

956
00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:37,040
Speaker 13: bracelets as your Christmas present.

957
00:53:40,600 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: On the next episode of Love Trapped, Laura was in

958
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:47,399
Speaker 1: for a route awakening. She was about to find out

959
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: how serious County Attorney Rachel Mitchell was. In January twenty

960
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,760
Speaker 1: twenty five, Laura got a knock on her door.

961
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 2: Laura Scott Stale police.

962
00:53:56,920 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 1: And it wasn't even seven o'clock in the morning on

963
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:01,080
Speaker 1: the phone with my attorney.

964
00:54:01,080 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 6: I'll put him on the phone right now.

965
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 15: It's my attorney, David Tingris, my attorney, David Ingers.

966
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,560
Speaker 8: I don't know who you guys aren't even savage.

967
00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,040
Speaker 15: You think I'm authority to search for eleven o'clock in

968
00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:33,439
Speaker 15: the morning, but the police are there lay.

969
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:44,520
Speaker 2: That.

970
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:55,279
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to

971
00:54:55,320 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: follow Love Trapped on Apple Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, Spotify,

972
00:55:00,600 --> 00:55:03,520
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and please leave us

973
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 1: a review. A five star rating helps others find this show.

974
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: We're grateful for your support. If you would like to

975
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,080
Speaker 1: reach out to the Love Trapped team or have a

976
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:17,080
Speaker 1: similar story to share, email us at Love Trapped pod

977
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:22,320
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com. That's Love Trapped pod at gmail

978
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:26,120
Speaker 1: dot com. Love Trapped is a production of Glass Podcasts,

979
00:55:26,239 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in partnership with iHeart Podcasts.

980
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 1: This show was executive produced by Nancy Glass, Andrea Gunning

981
00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:38,879
Speaker 1: and Ben Fetterman, written, produced, and hosted by me Stephanie Young.

982
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:43,120
Speaker 1: Our story editor is Monique La. Board producer on this

983
00:55:43,200 --> 00:55:47,840
Speaker 1: episode is Sidney Gladou. Additional production support from Todd Gans.

984
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:53,359
Speaker 1: Our production manager is Kristin Melchiri for iHeart Podcasts. Ali

985
00:55:53,480 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 1: Perry was our executive producer. Audio editing and mastering by

986
00:55:57,320 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: Anna McLain. Additional editing support by Tanner Robbins and Matt Delvecchio.

987
00:56:02,800 --> 00:56:06,840
Speaker 1: Thank you to our voice actor Leslie Tolly. This podcast

988
00:56:06,960 --> 00:56:10,640
Speaker 1: was developed in collaboration with Danny Passman and Lev Abramoff

989
00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:14,000
Speaker 1: at Crybaby Media. The Love Trapped theme is composed by

990
00:56:14,040 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 1: Oliver Bains. Music library provided by Mybe Music. A special

991
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 1: thanks to Carrie Lieberman, Will Pearson, Jessica Crincheck, Ali Canter

992
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: and the entire iHeart podcast team. And for more podcasts

993
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

994
00:56:31,680 --> 00:56:43,319
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts