1 00:00:00,190 --> 00:00:27,660 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of iHeartRadio. welcome back to 2 00:00:27,700 --> 00:00:31,220 Speaker 1: the show fellow ridiculous historians thank you as always so 3 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:35,639 Speaker 1: much for tuning in uh here's one for the cheapskates 4 00:00:35,740 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 1: folks this is probably going to be a two-part series 5 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,590 Speaker 1: on the uh the practice of tipping and we could 6 00:00:43,650 --> 00:00:48,790 Speaker 1: not do this without our super producer mr max 25 percent. 7 00:00:48,470 --> 00:00:52,850 Speaker 2: Williams what what what they say tipping ain't just a 8 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:53,830 Speaker 2: What is it? 9 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:56,860 Speaker 3: Not a country in China. China's a country. What's tipping? 10 00:00:57,460 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 3: The capital? 11 00:00:58,020 --> 00:01:00,200 Speaker 1: I don't know. 12 00:01:00,220 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 2: I'm bad at geography, but I'm good at tipping. And 13 00:01:02,620 --> 00:01:05,810 Speaker 2: I'll tell you why. From dating people in the service 14 00:01:05,850 --> 00:01:09,530 Speaker 2: industry or one person in particular, I was alerted that 15 00:01:10,069 --> 00:01:14,089 Speaker 2: by no intention of my own, no ill will, I 16 00:01:14,170 --> 00:01:17,430 Speaker 2: was a bad tipper. And it was only because I 17 00:01:18,030 --> 00:01:21,930 Speaker 2: didn't really understand the formula. And so ever since then, 18 00:01:22,050 --> 00:01:24,770 Speaker 2: I have just applied the simple doubling of the first 19 00:01:24,870 --> 00:01:28,630 Speaker 2: two digits of the check. And that usually amounts to 20 00:01:28,650 --> 00:01:31,509 Speaker 2: around 20%. And then, you know, of course, nowadays we 21 00:01:31,550 --> 00:01:35,110 Speaker 2: have helpful little guides at the bottom, little legends, you know, 22 00:01:35,150 --> 00:01:38,009 Speaker 2: telling you what the appropriate amount is. But I swear, man, 23 00:01:38,090 --> 00:01:39,870 Speaker 2: I just had no idea that I was such a 24 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 2: lousy tipper. And I fixed it and never looked back. 25 00:01:44,900 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 2: But boy, is it a problematic concept in general. here 26 00:01:48,580 --> 00:01:51,620 Speaker 2: in the United States in particular, where folks who work 27 00:01:51,660 --> 00:01:53,600 Speaker 2: for tips typically. 28 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,940 Speaker 3: Aren't paid a living wage. 29 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 1: That's Noel Brown, and I agree with you. I am 30 00:02:01,340 --> 00:02:06,030 Speaker 1: Ben Bolin, and this one is for you, fellow American 31 00:02:06,170 --> 00:02:11,350 Speaker 1: ridiculous historians, as well as for our fellow historians abroad. 32 00:02:11,990 --> 00:02:15,830 Speaker 1: If you are not from the United States and you 33 00:02:15,990 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: visit our fair country, or unfair country, you have doubtlessly 34 00:02:21,220 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: run into a particularly confusing social situation, which my pal 35 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:33,870 Speaker 1: Noel just described. We've got a deep roster of wonderfully extroverted, 36 00:02:34,090 --> 00:02:39,829 Speaker 1: extraordinarily kind people in the U.S. Our government, obviously, is 37 00:02:39,970 --> 00:02:43,190 Speaker 1: not as good as it could be, but our people 38 00:02:43,370 --> 00:02:48,710 Speaker 1: tend to be curious, optimistic people, supportive. They want to 39 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,329 Speaker 1: learn more about you if you visit from afar. We 40 00:02:52,389 --> 00:02:55,530 Speaker 1: still have a lot of weird stuff that doesn't make 41 00:02:55,630 --> 00:02:58,410 Speaker 1: sense to outsiders. You know, what I always think about, 42 00:02:58,490 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: Nuala Max, is when friends who come from other places 43 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:08,180 Speaker 1: shop in a grocery store or a convenience store and 44 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,519 Speaker 1: They're baffled by the fact that you see a price 45 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,090 Speaker 1: for a thing, right? Your coffee is going to cost 46 00:03:15,150 --> 00:03:18,510 Speaker 1: you $ 1. 99 or what have you. And then you go 47 00:03:18,550 --> 00:03:22,049 Speaker 1: to the register and all of a sudden, boom, it's 48 00:03:22,150 --> 00:03:25,970 Speaker 1: more than you thought because the taxes are never listed. 49 00:03:26,550 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 3: Ah, the taxman. He's got to get his pound of 50 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:30,459 Speaker 3: flesh or more. 51 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:31,340 Speaker 2: Mm-hmm. 52 00:03:31,889 --> 00:03:34,290 Speaker 3: Or, you know, maybe a kilo of flesh if you're 53 00:03:34,310 --> 00:03:34,710 Speaker 3: the Beatles. 54 00:03:35,070 --> 00:03:35,610 Speaker 2: There we go. 55 00:03:35,830 --> 00:03:36,350 Speaker 3: Well done. 56 00:03:36,570 --> 00:03:41,100 Speaker 1: And we know that one of the biggest baffling things 57 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: here in the U.S. is the financial or social quirk, 58 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 1: the unwritten rule called tipping. And we're going to have 59 00:03:51,060 --> 00:03:52,730 Speaker 1: a lot of conversation about this. 60 00:03:59,740 --> 00:04:00,220 Speaker 3: We sure are. 61 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,100 Speaker 2: And also worth pointing out that, uh, doesn't the tax 62 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:07,150 Speaker 2: man also want his cut of tips? Is that, I 63 00:04:07,170 --> 00:04:09,830 Speaker 2: feel like that's even like a campaign thing where we're like, ah, 64 00:04:09,890 --> 00:04:12,890 Speaker 2: no taxes on tips. Um, when it's really just kind 65 00:04:12,910 --> 00:04:15,870 Speaker 2: of like a slight consolation in a system that's already 66 00:04:15,930 --> 00:04:17,469 Speaker 2: kind of effed. Yeah. 67 00:04:17,570 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 4: I mean, it's a, uh, for a group of politicians 68 00:04:20,820 --> 00:04:22,659 Speaker 4: right now, that's a big talking point. It's no tax 69 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:25,100 Speaker 4: on tips, which there is, um, some question to the 70 00:04:25,140 --> 00:04:30,150 Speaker 4: validity of like whether or not their policies actually enforce that. But, uh, Because, 71 00:04:30,230 --> 00:04:32,270 Speaker 4: I mean, it comes to the question of are tips 72 00:04:32,730 --> 00:04:38,150 Speaker 4: gifts or are they how people pay for their bills 73 00:04:38,210 --> 00:04:40,930 Speaker 4: and their health insurance? I say this as somebody who 74 00:04:41,070 --> 00:04:44,250 Speaker 4: for 10 years worked in food and beverage, many of 75 00:04:44,300 --> 00:04:48,720 Speaker 4: those years as a tipped employee. So I have strong 76 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:50,660 Speaker 4: opinions on today's topic, let's just say. 77 00:04:51,140 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 2: Oh, and not to mention, I know we're going to 78 00:04:52,420 --> 00:04:53,940 Speaker 2: get into this too, and I'm sure, Max, you have 79 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 2: some perspectives on this, but it's just the idea of 80 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,740 Speaker 2: pooling tips and What situation does that apply? 81 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 3: Who does that benefit? 82 00:05:01,820 --> 00:05:04,839 Speaker 2: Is it really just kind of the business owners getting 83 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:08,380 Speaker 2: a break on paying their employees a fair wage? 84 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:10,460 Speaker 3: It's wild. 85 00:05:10,610 --> 00:05:12,170 Speaker 2: And it doesn't seem like you go to a place 86 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:12,870 Speaker 2: like France. 87 00:05:13,630 --> 00:05:15,510 Speaker 3: Tipping is borderline insulting. 88 00:05:16,010 --> 00:05:16,310 Speaker 2: Yeah. 89 00:05:16,650 --> 00:05:19,970 Speaker 1: Here in the States, you can take a cab or 90 00:05:20,010 --> 00:05:23,150 Speaker 1: an Uber. You visit a restaurant. You maybe stop by 91 00:05:23,190 --> 00:05:27,260 Speaker 1: a cafe for some coffee. and you pay an established price. 92 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:30,779 Speaker 1: That price is conveyed to you in a very clear manner. 93 00:05:30,860 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: Your taxi ride has a meter. It shows your fee. 94 00:05:34,220 --> 00:05:37,940 Speaker 1: Your coffee shop has a menu, a list of how 95 00:05:37,980 --> 00:05:42,140 Speaker 1: much your espresso may cost. But on top of that price, 96 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: in the United States, here in 2026, you are also, 97 00:05:48,430 --> 00:05:52,409 Speaker 1: in an unwritten rule, expected to pay an additional smaller 98 00:05:52,490 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 1: fee called a tip. It's not It's not illegal to 99 00:05:56,820 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: pay it, but it's not legally required, and not tipping 100 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,590 Speaker 1: can be seen as a huge social faux pas in 101 00:06:06,710 --> 00:06:10,730 Speaker 1: some situations, so much so that employees, yeah, I'm doing 102 00:06:10,790 --> 00:06:14,550 Speaker 1: French references, so much so that employees who don't get 103 00:06:14,610 --> 00:06:18,750 Speaker 1: a tip will remember you, and it may negatively affect 104 00:06:18,810 --> 00:06:20,210 Speaker 1: your service in the future. 105 00:06:20,650 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 2: Not only will they remember you, I always, when the 106 00:06:23,820 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: topic of tipping comes up, Remember this scene in The 107 00:06:28,140 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 2: Sopranos where Pauly Walnuts and Chrissy Moltisanti. I think this 108 00:06:34,480 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 2: is a series where Pauly is kind of basically torturing 109 00:06:37,779 --> 00:06:40,310 Speaker 2: Chrissy as his underling and making him pay for all 110 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,590 Speaker 2: the dinners and all the drinks. And they have this 111 00:06:42,690 --> 00:06:45,630 Speaker 2: big dinner where Pauly keeps ordering lobster and all these 112 00:06:45,690 --> 00:06:48,860 Speaker 2: stuff for these ladies and drinks and champagne. And then 113 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 2: Chris pays the tab, and as they're walking out, this 114 00:06:52,300 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: waiter follows them out and says, excuse me, was there 115 00:06:56,420 --> 00:06:59,500 Speaker 2: a problem with your bill? And, you know, Chris is already, like, 116 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 2: at the end of his rope, and he's like, I'm 117 00:07:01,260 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 2: tapped out. 118 00:07:02,740 --> 00:07:04,200 Speaker 3: That was $ 1, 500 there. 119 00:07:04,230 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, that was the, you know, it was 120 00:07:07,260 --> 00:07:09,670 Speaker 2: a $ 1, 500 bill, and you only left me, like, $ 20. 121 00:07:09,110 --> 00:07:11,030 Speaker 3: And he's like, I'm tapped out. 122 00:07:11,110 --> 00:07:13,130 Speaker 2: And then the guy goes, go piss it away at 123 00:07:13,270 --> 00:07:14,710 Speaker 2: Blackjack or something like that. 124 00:07:14,930 --> 00:07:18,290 Speaker 3: And then they beat him to death. Just saying, man, 125 00:07:18,330 --> 00:07:21,620 Speaker 3: tipping is a sticky subject. 126 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,580 Speaker 4: And to jump in here real quick, there is also 127 00:07:24,810 --> 00:07:28,670 Speaker 4: another very famous scene about discussing tips. Restore Dogs, the 128 00:07:28,690 --> 00:07:29,210 Speaker 4: very beginning. 129 00:07:29,270 --> 00:07:29,490 Speaker 1: Mr. 130 00:07:29,530 --> 00:07:30,330 Speaker 3: Pink does some tips. 131 00:07:30,350 --> 00:07:30,540 Speaker 2: Oh, gosh. 132 00:07:31,140 --> 00:07:34,830 Speaker 4: But I will– Ben, to your point, bartenders are like elephants. 133 00:07:34,870 --> 00:07:36,370 Speaker 4: If you don't tip, they remember. 134 00:07:36,650 --> 00:07:38,170 Speaker 2: That's where I learned that I was a bad tipper 135 00:07:38,370 --> 00:07:42,510 Speaker 2: was because my girlfriend at the time, her girlfriend was 136 00:07:42,590 --> 00:07:46,630 Speaker 2: dating the bartender at the local chicken wing joint that 137 00:07:46,670 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 2: we often reference. And– he told his girlfriend that I 138 00:07:51,070 --> 00:07:52,610 Speaker 2: was a crappy tipper. 139 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 3: And that I was like, Oh no, I just didn't. 140 00:07:55,940 --> 00:07:57,520 Speaker 3: I was just ignorant, frankly. 141 00:07:57,660 --> 00:08:00,100 Speaker 2: And then that is when I kind of learned the 142 00:08:00,140 --> 00:08:01,820 Speaker 2: little trick I mentioned at the top of the show, 143 00:08:01,860 --> 00:08:04,340 Speaker 2: you know, doubling the first part of the check. Like 144 00:08:04,380 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 2: if it's a $ 10 check, you tip $ 2. 145 00:08:07,180 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 3: If it's a $ 50 check, you tip $ 10. Yeah. 146 00:08:10,820 --> 00:08:13,620 Speaker 1: Which would bring you to roughly 20%. 147 00:08:13,620 --> 00:08:15,780 Speaker 3: It's a reasonable rule of thumb. I'm not saying it's perfect. 148 00:08:15,860 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: And I definitely have evolved past that as I've, progressed 149 00:08:18,920 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 2: as an adult, you know, but at that point I 150 00:08:20,880 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: was also like, you know, pretty poor. So I was 151 00:08:23,540 --> 00:08:25,610 Speaker 2: doing my best to do the right thing, but also 152 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:29,489 Speaker 2: now I over-tip probably to make amends for my past. 153 00:08:30,270 --> 00:08:30,610 Speaker 3: Yeah. 154 00:08:30,790 --> 00:08:35,270 Speaker 1: And to exercise empathy here, we understand how this can 155 00:08:35,309 --> 00:08:40,390 Speaker 1: be super duper confusing because it is an unwritten rule. 156 00:08:40,550 --> 00:08:43,550 Speaker 1: If you visit the United States, you're not going to 157 00:08:43,590 --> 00:08:47,010 Speaker 1: get some sort of official piece of paperwork that tells 158 00:08:47,030 --> 00:08:50,829 Speaker 1: you how to tip. you might have no idea what 159 00:08:50,870 --> 00:08:54,670 Speaker 1: that extra line on your receipt at a restaurant means. 160 00:08:54,980 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 1: Because in so many other countries, there is an automatic, 161 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:05,420 Speaker 1: clearly displayed service charge instead. And just so you know, folks, 162 00:09:06,070 --> 00:09:10,230 Speaker 1: people in the United States are still very heavily divided 163 00:09:10,450 --> 00:09:14,430 Speaker 1: on who you tip. when you tip them, how much 164 00:09:14,500 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: you tip them, right? Is it 10%? Is it 15? 165 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 3: Is it a dollar? 166 00:09:18,740 --> 00:09:22,900 Speaker 1: Is it 20%? And if you have ever been familiar 167 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:27,550 Speaker 1: with our country's storage service industry, then you are probably, 168 00:09:27,850 --> 00:09:32,150 Speaker 1: like Max alluded to, going to tip about 20% of 169 00:09:32,350 --> 00:09:37,010 Speaker 1: a bill using, as you said, Noel, the quick heuristic 170 00:09:37,620 --> 00:09:42,460 Speaker 1: that a lot of people employ. Because if you live 171 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,850 Speaker 1: in the United States, if you spend a lot of 172 00:09:44,900 --> 00:09:49,470 Speaker 1: time there, you realize that folks in the service industries 173 00:09:49,730 --> 00:09:55,309 Speaker 1: often depend upon that extra unofficial money to survive. But, 174 00:09:55,830 --> 00:09:59,330 Speaker 1: you know, we also should acknowledge getting into this that during. 175 00:10:00,530 --> 00:10:05,310 Speaker 1: COVID and post-COVID, there has been a backlash about tipping 176 00:10:05,450 --> 00:10:09,050 Speaker 1: being quote unquote expected. And a lot of folks are 177 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:12,500 Speaker 1: saying it's gone too far. I remember in particular, Noel, 178 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:16,979 Speaker 1: you had mentioned on our sister show, Stuff They Don't 179 00:10:17,100 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: Want You To Know, that Now, when we go to 180 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:25,940 Speaker 1: an electronic point of sale, you order a coffee or whatever, 181 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: you get an espresso, and you have a separate screen 182 00:10:31,990 --> 00:10:35,150 Speaker 1: that pops up once your card runs, and it says, 183 00:10:35,190 --> 00:10:36,069 Speaker 1: do you want to tip 18%, 20%, 25%. 184 00:10:36,050 --> 00:10:36,370 Speaker 3: And so on. 185 00:10:36,410 --> 00:10:37,830 Speaker 1: So a lot of people don't love that. 186 00:10:43,150 --> 00:10:44,209 Speaker 3: They don't love that. 187 00:10:44,370 --> 00:10:48,620 Speaker 2: And then there's the whole other conversation around is tipping a, like, 188 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:53,099 Speaker 2: reward for exceptional service, right? Like, and I think a 189 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 2: lot of people look at it that way, where if 190 00:10:54,940 --> 00:10:58,359 Speaker 2: you maybe only get so-so service, it is your right to, like, 191 00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,140 Speaker 2: not tip or to leave a crappy tip. And Max 192 00:11:01,179 --> 00:11:04,410 Speaker 2: is vehemently shaking his head, and I understand why. But 193 00:11:04,429 --> 00:11:09,689 Speaker 2: I also understand the confusion in this particular process. perspective 194 00:11:09,750 --> 00:11:12,490 Speaker 2: I think comes with a certain amount of entitlement and 195 00:11:12,630 --> 00:11:15,829 Speaker 2: ignorance around the system. So I'm certainly not supporting that 196 00:11:15,850 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 2: at all, but here we are with a lot of 197 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:19,220 Speaker 2: people looking at it that way. 198 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: Well, Max, I do want to go to you here 199 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:25,580 Speaker 1: because one of the horror stories I read in the 200 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:30,859 Speaker 1: research for this, amid the many horror stories I read 201 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:36,570 Speaker 1: about bad tippers, was a practice that feels so soulless 202 00:11:36,610 --> 00:11:42,030 Speaker 1: and manipulative There are really people in the United States 203 00:11:42,450 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 1: who will quote unquote tip with a fake religious tract 204 00:11:48,059 --> 00:11:51,819 Speaker 1: made to look like U.S. currency. And then even worse 205 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: than that, there are people, we can't confirm this, who 206 00:11:55,700 --> 00:11:59,790 Speaker 1: will walk into a restaurant, take out, you know, five 207 00:11:59,790 --> 00:12:04,570 Speaker 1: $ 1 bills and then put them on the table and say, 208 00:12:05,130 --> 00:12:08,130 Speaker 1: this is your tip. And anytime I don't like what 209 00:12:08,150 --> 00:12:11,870 Speaker 1: you're doing, I'm taking one dollar away. I think those 210 00:12:12,030 --> 00:12:13,170 Speaker 1: folks should be kicked out. 211 00:12:14,130 --> 00:12:15,110 Speaker 3: Send them to the gulag. 212 00:12:15,290 --> 00:12:15,469 Speaker 4: Yeah. 213 00:12:15,570 --> 00:12:16,829 Speaker 1: Max, you ever run into this? 214 00:12:18,010 --> 00:12:22,300 Speaker 4: Oh, I mean, not exactly those things, but similar enough 215 00:12:22,340 --> 00:12:25,780 Speaker 4: to things. I mean, I'm a big believer that whenever 216 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:28,699 Speaker 4: I train people on like serving or bartending, I was like, 217 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,220 Speaker 4: The most important thing to do is to make sure 218 00:12:32,660 --> 00:12:35,160 Speaker 4: people get their food. You do the job right. And 219 00:12:35,210 --> 00:12:38,170 Speaker 4: then the extra stuff afterwards, that's like, you know, some 220 00:12:38,190 --> 00:12:39,610 Speaker 4: people don't want you to talk with them or hang 221 00:12:39,670 --> 00:12:41,690 Speaker 4: out with them. Like people have this whole idea like, oh, 222 00:12:41,710 --> 00:12:43,260 Speaker 4: you need to become your table's best friend. I'm like, no, 223 00:12:43,270 --> 00:12:45,300 Speaker 4: I think people want their food and their drinks. But 224 00:12:45,340 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 4: then sometimes people want that extra stuff. I am a 225 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:52,580 Speaker 4: big believer that like, you know. There is like, you know, 20% 226 00:12:52,580 --> 00:12:56,300 Speaker 4: is like, you did the job. I, you delivered it 227 00:12:56,340 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 4: because there's also is a point of like the person 228 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,430 Speaker 4: didn't do the job. And I mean, that's a whole 229 00:13:01,470 --> 00:13:04,770 Speaker 4: debate in itself. And that's like, is it a responsibility 230 00:13:04,809 --> 00:13:07,630 Speaker 4: of the customer to pay the employee's wage, which is, 231 00:13:07,660 --> 00:13:09,020 Speaker 4: I think, where this is all going to go to 232 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 4: the conversation of this all. But then I don't think 233 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:14,140 Speaker 4: it's like, oh, you did such a great job. Here 234 00:13:14,340 --> 00:13:17,179 Speaker 4: is the bare minimum that we're supposed to do. But 235 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,140 Speaker 4: it all goes back to this problem of why do 236 00:13:20,230 --> 00:13:24,890 Speaker 4: we have this like lexicon, super complex system in this 237 00:13:24,950 --> 00:13:28,270 Speaker 4: country of what to tip people, what to pay somebody's wage? 238 00:13:28,670 --> 00:13:33,270 Speaker 1: Yeah. And why is it? An unwritten rule. We've got 239 00:13:33,290 --> 00:13:36,270 Speaker 1: to tell you this, folks. Regardless of where you find 240 00:13:36,350 --> 00:13:40,349 Speaker 1: yourself in this argument, which is something a lot of 241 00:13:40,429 --> 00:13:44,079 Speaker 1: Americans talk about ubiquitously, the way you would talk about 242 00:13:44,100 --> 00:13:48,100 Speaker 1: your favorite sports team, there is one truth. Most people, 243 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:52,300 Speaker 1: including fans of tipping and including critics of tipping, have 244 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,900 Speaker 1: no idea where this practice comes from, where it originates, 245 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:02,340 Speaker 1: the true origin, ridiculously enough. At least here, this country 246 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: is 100% a product of slavery. 247 00:14:13,270 --> 00:14:14,310 Speaker 3: Surprise, surprise. 248 00:14:15,270 --> 00:14:15,569 Speaker 4: Right? 249 00:14:16,110 --> 00:14:19,750 Speaker 2: I don't mean, okay, not to be like too droll 250 00:14:19,810 --> 00:14:22,650 Speaker 2: about it, but it just, you know, like, oh, you 251 00:14:22,700 --> 00:14:26,520 Speaker 2: mean another weird remnant from our toxic past? 252 00:14:27,020 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 3: You know, as a country, like there's other. 253 00:14:29,220 --> 00:14:33,380 Speaker 2: Examples of things like that that have stuck around well 254 00:14:33,420 --> 00:14:36,550 Speaker 2: past their time. Yeah. 255 00:14:36,670 --> 00:14:40,490 Speaker 1: I mean, cast your memories back there, folks, Van Morrison style. 256 00:14:41,730 --> 00:14:44,630 Speaker 1: In the days of the founding fathers, when they were 257 00:14:44,700 --> 00:14:48,119 Speaker 1: hatching up a revolution and they were still considered terrorists 258 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:53,480 Speaker 1: by old King George, tipping was not a thing. in 259 00:14:53,500 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 1: the colonies at all. You paid for goods and services 260 00:14:56,940 --> 00:15:01,900 Speaker 1: through barter or whatever weird currency was considered acceptable at 261 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,940 Speaker 1: the time. That's a whole other bag of badgers. But 262 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: what we're saying is the idea of going to an 263 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,230 Speaker 1: inn and buying a bowl of soup or a flagon 264 00:15:10,270 --> 00:15:16,370 Speaker 1: of ale or Washington's famous eggnog, et cetera, the concept 265 00:15:16,490 --> 00:15:19,470 Speaker 1: of paying for that and then throwing another 20% extra 266 00:15:19,490 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: atop that price it would have been considered anywhere between charity, lunacy, 267 00:15:27,860 --> 00:15:30,220 Speaker 1: or in some cases, an insult. 268 00:15:31,020 --> 00:15:34,900 Speaker 2: And not to mention, it could have been in some 269 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 2: situations considered a crime to tip people. Officers of the law, 270 00:15:40,450 --> 00:15:42,970 Speaker 2: for example, or other government workers, that could be seen, 271 00:15:43,070 --> 00:15:46,590 Speaker 2: of course, as it would likely be seen today, as 272 00:15:46,630 --> 00:15:47,110 Speaker 2: a bribe. 273 00:15:48,010 --> 00:15:49,070 Speaker 3: There are also certain. 274 00:15:48,870 --> 00:15:52,350 Speaker 2: Places you'll go where there are signs up that expressly 275 00:15:52,430 --> 00:15:56,890 Speaker 2: forbid tipping. Like, uh, there's this deli, um, at the, uh, 276 00:15:57,070 --> 00:16:00,530 Speaker 2: this world market here in Atlanta, um, where there's a 277 00:16:00,570 --> 00:16:02,410 Speaker 2: sign up that says you're not allowed to tip. 278 00:16:02,590 --> 00:16:04,270 Speaker 3: You're not supposed to, they're not allowed to accept the 279 00:16:04,290 --> 00:16:06,260 Speaker 3: wording is they're not allowed to accept tips. 280 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 2: And frankly, I've always found that kind of unusual because 281 00:16:09,540 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 2: this is also an institution that employs a lot of immigrants. 282 00:16:13,780 --> 00:16:17,620 Speaker 2: So it feels a little part and parcel with perhaps 283 00:16:18,100 --> 00:16:19,479 Speaker 2: taking advantage of their employees. 284 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 3: I don't know. 285 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 2: I can't say I don't know what the folks make there, 286 00:16:22,760 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 2: but there's part of me that wonders if there's some 287 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 2: nefariousness going on in terms of retaining this employment. 288 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,540 Speaker 4: I do just want to jump in real quick from Futurama, 289 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 4: Panucci's Pizza, where Fry works in the 20th century. The 290 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:38,500 Speaker 4: box says, do not tip the delivery driver. 291 00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:45,020 Speaker 1: Or we have a grocery chain here in the southeastern 292 00:16:45,260 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: United States called Publix. And Publix also has the signs 293 00:16:51,160 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: that we mentioned earlier, which say, do not tip the 294 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,810 Speaker 1: people who are helping you carry your bags from the 295 00:16:58,870 --> 00:17:03,570 Speaker 1: store to the parking lot. We also do have, full disclosure— 296 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:09,100 Speaker 1: a whole new legal form of bribing and corrupting public officials. 297 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:12,649 Speaker 1: We have a euphemism for it. We call it lobbying 298 00:17:12,869 --> 00:17:16,730 Speaker 1: or campaign donations. I walked down the street, down the 299 00:17:16,750 --> 00:17:18,670 Speaker 1: block for that one, but it needs to be said. 300 00:17:19,010 --> 00:17:21,129 Speaker 2: Just a hop, skip, and a jump, yeah, especially as 301 00:17:21,190 --> 00:17:26,980 Speaker 2: legislation around those types of campaign contributions have devolved. It 302 00:17:27,020 --> 00:17:31,420 Speaker 2: really does appear more and more as just actual facts legalized. 303 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:33,400 Speaker 3: Bribery pay to play. 304 00:17:33,220 --> 00:17:36,390 Speaker 2: Kind of stuff um so the etymology we're gonna get 305 00:17:36,550 --> 00:17:38,770 Speaker 2: to right now we don't know exactly where the term 306 00:17:38,810 --> 00:17:42,550 Speaker 2: itself comes from um it's always kind of struck me 307 00:17:42,650 --> 00:17:45,450 Speaker 2: as as odd right and there's even jokes about it 308 00:17:45,510 --> 00:17:48,649 Speaker 2: like in looney tunes cartoons where uh i think the 309 00:17:48,690 --> 00:17:51,700 Speaker 2: bugs bunny is like asks for a tip or something 310 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,380 Speaker 2: something comes up where he's supposed to give a tip 311 00:17:53,420 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 2: and he says don't leave wax lips on the dresser 312 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,220 Speaker 2: on a sunny day oh right yeah right so it's 313 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,510 Speaker 2: like this idea of you're You're doing someone a solid, right? 314 00:18:03,590 --> 00:18:06,190 Speaker 2: Like you're giving them a good little tidbit of info 315 00:18:06,930 --> 00:18:10,420 Speaker 2: that then maybe can be kind of evolved into this 316 00:18:10,500 --> 00:18:12,720 Speaker 2: idea of a buck. Right. 317 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: You're giving someone something that will benefit them in the 318 00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: present or the future, right? Don't take any wooden nickels 319 00:18:21,540 --> 00:18:22,540 Speaker 1: is a tip. 320 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,790 Speaker 3: For example, the- If someone hands you a coin, you 321 00:18:26,810 --> 00:18:28,690 Speaker 3: got to bite it. Right, right. 322 00:18:28,770 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: The Oxford English Dictionary has for a long time described 323 00:18:33,460 --> 00:18:40,570 Speaker 1: tipping as a slang term possibly originating from something called thieves' cant, 324 00:18:41,210 --> 00:18:45,830 Speaker 1: like a special language used by criminals way back in 325 00:18:45,850 --> 00:18:51,649 Speaker 1: the day. It still has that conspiratorial aspect meaning– It 326 00:18:51,730 --> 00:18:56,030 Speaker 1: likely comes from tip, meaning to strike or to hit 327 00:18:56,170 --> 00:18:59,870 Speaker 1: smartly but lightly, and that might come from low German, 328 00:19:00,310 --> 00:19:05,869 Speaker 1: tipping to tap or tipping, excuse me, T-I-P-P-E-N. It's an 329 00:19:06,050 --> 00:19:11,320 Speaker 1: interesting theory because of that aura of secrecy, and it 330 00:19:11,380 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: makes sense for the cheapskates in the crowd because sometimes 331 00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,780 Speaker 1: paying a tip can feel, from your perspective, like you 332 00:19:18,820 --> 00:19:19,800 Speaker 1: are getting robbed. 333 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:23,020 Speaker 2: Well, unrelated, but related just in terms of the etymology 334 00:19:23,060 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 2: of it all, I do enjoy how in the UK, 335 00:19:27,660 --> 00:19:29,919 Speaker 2: a tip is a garbage dump. 336 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,939 Speaker 1: Yeah, just so, right? Boots and hoods, or boots and trunks. 337 00:19:36,420 --> 00:19:40,290 Speaker 1: And we know the phrase in English dates back to 338 00:19:40,310 --> 00:19:45,230 Speaker 1: around 1600. It usually meant at that time to give 339 00:19:45,350 --> 00:19:49,770 Speaker 1: a small present of money, to give a financial gift, 340 00:19:49,869 --> 00:19:53,060 Speaker 1: kind of like when your grandmother would send you you 341 00:19:53,220 --> 00:19:55,440 Speaker 1: know would slip a 5 or a 10 or a 342 00:19:55,420 --> 00:20:01,270 Speaker 1: 20 in your birthday card it wasn't until 1706 that 343 00:20:01,450 --> 00:20:06,290 Speaker 1: tip became a verb meaning to give a gratuity to 344 00:20:06,730 --> 00:20:09,850 Speaker 1: this was this was a spot bonus and as we 345 00:20:09,869 --> 00:20:14,630 Speaker 1: would call it today, for doing an above average job. 346 00:20:14,690 --> 00:20:17,470 Speaker 1: And we've got some myths to bust. You're going to 347 00:20:17,510 --> 00:20:22,490 Speaker 1: hear TIP as an acronym, meaning that it stood, it 348 00:20:23,090 --> 00:20:26,940 Speaker 1: was short for to inspire promptness or something like that. 349 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,379 Speaker 1: But we checked with our friends at Snopes. That is 350 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,980 Speaker 1: not true. It is fun. And we do, I think, 351 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,790 Speaker 1: have to take a moment to, while we're being etymology nerds, 352 00:20:40,210 --> 00:20:44,390 Speaker 1: look at the word gratuity, which is synonymous with tip. 353 00:20:44,910 --> 00:20:49,209 Speaker 2: It's so weird. It's an odd use of that. I mean, 354 00:20:49,230 --> 00:20:54,350 Speaker 2: I think of gratuitous meaning like egregious or, you know, extra. 355 00:20:54,510 --> 00:20:55,230 Speaker 3: Way too much. 356 00:20:55,250 --> 00:20:58,669 Speaker 2: Okay, that is a little extra, but that is not 357 00:20:58,830 --> 00:21:02,230 Speaker 2: the connotation I typically associate with the word gratuitous. 358 00:21:02,270 --> 00:21:03,889 Speaker 3: I think of gratuitous violence. 359 00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:07,870 Speaker 2: Gratuitous sex you know any kind of uh something that's 360 00:21:07,890 --> 00:21:09,290 Speaker 2: just over the top. 361 00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:11,389 Speaker 4: Yeah and to jump in here i actually was diving 362 00:21:11,609 --> 00:21:15,389 Speaker 4: into uh the term gratuity song because that's like i 363 00:21:15,410 --> 00:21:16,530 Speaker 4: the way i think about it's like that's kind of 364 00:21:16,550 --> 00:21:18,909 Speaker 4: the fancy nerdy way to refer to tips it's like 365 00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:22,070 Speaker 4: oh can i get the gratuity i think uh data 366 00:21:22,109 --> 00:21:23,790 Speaker 4: refers to it as in the in the star trek 367 00:21:23,830 --> 00:21:26,190 Speaker 4: episode it's gratuity one time and it's like of course 368 00:21:26,210 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 4: you did data but uh what etymology online um it 369 00:21:32,130 --> 00:21:40,140 Speaker 4: comes from Gratuitatum, or from the French term for graciousness, 370 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,199 Speaker 4: which is gratuity. I'm just guessing at these pronunciations. 371 00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:44,810 Speaker 3: Apologies. 372 00:21:45,140 --> 00:21:48,650 Speaker 4: But basically the idea of a free gift or done 373 00:21:48,750 --> 00:21:54,550 Speaker 4: without pay, spontaneous, voluntary. But it comes from the root 374 00:21:54,650 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 4: of a Proto-Indo-European word, guire, or guiree. Basically, it's to 375 00:22:01,540 --> 00:22:05,030 Speaker 4: favor is the idea, but it exists back to the 1530s. 376 00:22:05,140 --> 00:22:07,780 Speaker 4: That's like the first documented use of it. 377 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:09,120 Speaker 1: Oh, weird. 378 00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 4: Yeah. 379 00:22:09,700 --> 00:22:15,820 Speaker 1: So I wonder, guys, whether gratuity and graciousness or generosity 380 00:22:16,420 --> 00:22:20,639 Speaker 1: are related because the idea is it's a voluntary thing. 381 00:22:21,460 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: One does not have to do, but one chooses to do. 382 00:22:25,859 --> 00:22:30,170 Speaker 1: And regardless of which theory we go with, We have 383 00:22:30,190 --> 00:22:35,100 Speaker 1: to acknowledge the concept of tipping is older than the 384 00:22:35,180 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: United States, even though the U.S. is now the most 385 00:22:38,500 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 1: infamous tipping culture on the planet. It was really interesting 386 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: to learn that historians are not sure when tipping began. 387 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,340 Speaker 1: You'll find some folks saying it goes back to the 388 00:22:51,420 --> 00:22:56,140 Speaker 1: Roman Empire, but there's this historian we love for this 389 00:22:56,359 --> 00:23:01,460 Speaker 1: named Cary Seagrave. who wrote a book in 1998 called Tipping, 390 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:07,090 Speaker 1: An American Social History of Gratuities. And he says it's 391 00:23:07,150 --> 00:23:10,170 Speaker 1: not a Roman thing. He says it goes back to 392 00:23:10,350 --> 00:23:13,130 Speaker 1: the Middle Ages and to Tudor England. 393 00:23:13,850 --> 00:23:18,070 Speaker 2: Medieval times, in fact. No, not the restaurant. I believe 394 00:23:18,090 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 2: you also, they rely on tips, the surfers there. Tipping 395 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:27,350 Speaker 2: was a master-surf kind of relationship. where a servant would 396 00:23:27,390 --> 00:23:30,570 Speaker 2: receive a little extra money for having done a good job. 397 00:23:31,270 --> 00:23:34,990 Speaker 2: And from time to time, the landed gentry would also 398 00:23:35,100 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 2: throw a few extra shekels at their servants, sometimes literally, yeah, 399 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 2: take it, get you from my sight. 400 00:23:43,500 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: Ooh, just like that, what was that film Pacino was in, 401 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:51,790 Speaker 1: Al Pacino, where he, or I'm thinking of every gangster 402 00:23:51,810 --> 00:23:56,609 Speaker 1: film ever, where one of those Sopranos-esque organized crime guys 403 00:23:57,109 --> 00:24:00,379 Speaker 1: gets in trouble, and then they start just tossing out 404 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,899 Speaker 1: currency on the floor. And they're like, fine, here you go. 405 00:24:05,260 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, like throwing money at a problem. 406 00:24:07,100 --> 00:24:10,619 Speaker 2: So, again, landed gentry, throwing money at the servant, who 407 00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:14,119 Speaker 2: had perhaps fallen on hard times. Perhaps they were suffering 408 00:24:14,220 --> 00:24:18,970 Speaker 2: from food scarcity, had. 409 00:24:18,770 --> 00:24:21,510 Speaker 3: Been injured, you know, a weird loose. 410 00:24:22,130 --> 00:24:25,230 Speaker 2: very uh what's the word ad hoc form of workman's 411 00:24:25,270 --> 00:24:28,980 Speaker 2: comp um losing a loved one or having a child 412 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 2: but again all of this was custom and entirely up 413 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,570 Speaker 2: to the master and their discretion. 414 00:24:36,770 --> 00:24:40,149 Speaker 1: Yeah we're gonna see that hierarchy coming into play you 415 00:24:40,170 --> 00:24:45,540 Speaker 1: know we we've learned that by the 17th century, around the, 416 00:24:45,740 --> 00:24:49,800 Speaker 1: you know, through the 1600s, a fancy guest who would 417 00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: stay overnight at the private homes of their fellow fancy 418 00:24:54,920 --> 00:25:12,730 Speaker 1: host would give the servants something called veils, V-A-I-L-S. Having 419 00:25:13,030 --> 00:25:17,650 Speaker 1: extra people stay over means so much extra work for you. 420 00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:21,270 Speaker 1: So this was not seen as condescending at that point. 421 00:25:21,330 --> 00:25:24,650 Speaker 1: It was seen as a courtesy, like, thank you for 422 00:25:24,750 --> 00:25:28,950 Speaker 1: doing so much more work. And at the time, even then, 423 00:25:28,970 --> 00:25:34,020 Speaker 1: you guys, some people complained about this practice. There were 424 00:25:34,100 --> 00:25:37,440 Speaker 1: people as early as the late 1600s, beginning of the 425 00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: 1700s in Europe, saying, look, I'm not a bad person. 426 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: I'm fine giving a veil occasionally, but I don't like 427 00:25:49,020 --> 00:25:52,710 Speaker 1: how these people that are beneath me seem to be 428 00:25:52,850 --> 00:25:58,689 Speaker 1: expecting me to give them money, which still just reeks 429 00:25:59,109 --> 00:26:00,369 Speaker 1: of entitlement. 430 00:26:00,850 --> 00:26:01,149 Speaker 3: Right. 431 00:26:01,310 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 2: And despite that bit of controversy, it wasn't long before 432 00:26:05,390 --> 00:26:07,939 Speaker 2: the practice kind of took off. 433 00:26:08,660 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 3: Spread past the estates. 434 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:21,719 Speaker 2: Of the aforementioned landed gentry. Customers at London coffee houses, 435 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:25,140 Speaker 2: for example, and other businesses began tipping as well. Ben, 436 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 2: is this like, I mean, I think that's what we 437 00:26:27,619 --> 00:26:29,139 Speaker 2: were already kind of spelling out a bit, but it 438 00:26:29,180 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 2: just seems to me that at this point, it's almost 439 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 2: a flex, right? It's like a show of wealth and 440 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,350 Speaker 2: a way of sort of, I don't know, a power move. 441 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:38,400 Speaker 2: in a way. 442 00:26:38,980 --> 00:26:43,619 Speaker 1: Yeah, very much so. And, and there's arguably some toxicity 443 00:26:43,780 --> 00:26:47,900 Speaker 1: to it. Uh, no matter how well intentioned it would be, 444 00:26:48,060 --> 00:26:55,550 Speaker 1: because now imagine, uh, imagine we are, uh, max, the 445 00:26:56,090 --> 00:27:00,470 Speaker 1: Duke of Williams. And we have a, uh, we have 446 00:27:00,710 --> 00:27:04,930 Speaker 1: a tailor that we visit routinely, right. And we have 447 00:27:04,970 --> 00:27:08,550 Speaker 1: a coffee house we go to routinely, uh, And we're saying, 448 00:27:09,109 --> 00:27:13,230 Speaker 1: you know, we are not so different, you and I, here. 449 00:27:13,770 --> 00:27:18,189 Speaker 1: I understand that you work very hard and I have 450 00:27:18,910 --> 00:27:23,050 Speaker 1: leftover money. So take my financial leftovers. My scraps. 451 00:27:23,430 --> 00:27:29,139 Speaker 3: Yes, indeed. Peasants. And dance for them. Yeah, exactly. 452 00:27:29,340 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: And dance for me while you tailor my suit. I 453 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,790 Speaker 1: know that's physically impossible, but do your best. 454 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:37,650 Speaker 4: And now you two fight to the death. 455 00:27:37,830 --> 00:27:40,810 Speaker 3: That's another great gangster scene. 456 00:27:40,910 --> 00:27:45,350 Speaker 2: Also involving Michael Imperioli in one of his first roles 457 00:27:45,369 --> 00:27:49,410 Speaker 2: where he plays Spider, the bartender slash kind of servant 458 00:27:49,470 --> 00:27:52,889 Speaker 2: boy in the back rooms where the gangsters of Goodfellas 459 00:27:53,050 --> 00:27:56,850 Speaker 2: did their, you know, seedy card games. And Joe Pesci, 460 00:27:57,490 --> 00:28:00,210 Speaker 2: he offends him in some way, so he shoots guns 461 00:28:00,270 --> 00:28:01,989 Speaker 2: at his feet and tells him to dance, you know, 462 00:28:02,030 --> 00:28:03,490 Speaker 2: and then he ends up shooting him in the foot. 463 00:28:03,890 --> 00:28:06,359 Speaker 2: And he goes, you shot Spider in the foot, you know? 464 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,120 Speaker 1: Ooh, like Tori Lane in Megan the Stallion. 465 00:28:09,780 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 3: Oh, okay. 466 00:28:10,540 --> 00:28:10,850 Speaker 2: What's that? 467 00:28:11,619 --> 00:28:15,860 Speaker 1: Tory Lane went to jail. He's an emcee. He got 468 00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: locked up because he shot another musician, Megan Thee Stallion, 469 00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:20,620 Speaker 1: in the foot. 470 00:28:20,940 --> 00:28:23,880 Speaker 2: Oh, geez, I didn't know that. It must have been inspired, 471 00:28:24,020 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 2: which also is inspired by Old West kind of behavior, obviously. 472 00:28:27,580 --> 00:28:30,909 Speaker 2: But then in a similar move to what happened in Sopranos, 473 00:28:31,350 --> 00:28:34,430 Speaker 2: then Spider, you know, comes back with a bandage around 474 00:28:34,450 --> 00:28:37,909 Speaker 2: his foot at a later point. date and tells, you know, 475 00:28:37,950 --> 00:28:40,690 Speaker 2: Joe Pesci's character to go F himself. And he just, 476 00:28:40,730 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 2: she shoots him in the face. 477 00:28:41,980 --> 00:28:42,700 Speaker 3: Joe Pesci. 478 00:28:42,780 --> 00:28:43,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 479 00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:45,300 Speaker 4: Everyone's just laughing because they find it really funny. And 480 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 4: Joe Pesci was completely out of hand. 481 00:28:47,040 --> 00:28:48,970 Speaker 3: He's dead-eyed at first. It's terrifying. 482 00:28:49,010 --> 00:28:49,310 Speaker 1: Yeah. 483 00:28:49,570 --> 00:28:51,110 Speaker 3: And then he shoots him a bunch of times. 484 00:28:51,170 --> 00:28:51,270 Speaker 1: Yeah. 485 00:28:51,770 --> 00:28:53,450 Speaker 4: Yeah, this is a kind of point out like how 486 00:28:53,530 --> 00:28:56,070 Speaker 4: insane Joe Pesci's character is supposed to be. It's just like, 487 00:28:56,090 --> 00:28:57,510 Speaker 4: you know, everyone's like, oh, this is really funny. And 488 00:28:57,530 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 4: Joe Pesci just like murders the guy. It's like, what 489 00:28:59,940 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 4: is wrong with you, dude? 490 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: And from everything we've heard about Joe Pesci, the person 491 00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,490 Speaker 1: whom we have not met, he's different from his characters. Also, 492 00:29:10,610 --> 00:29:13,050 Speaker 1: this is a bit of insurance for us. Joe, if 493 00:29:13,090 --> 00:29:18,090 Speaker 1: you're tuning in, thank you. Please don't shoot us. We've 494 00:29:18,130 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: got the rough understanding of the origin of this extra 495 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:27,220 Speaker 1: payment thing happening. We have to give you the quiet 496 00:29:27,340 --> 00:29:33,780 Speaker 1: part out loud. After the American Revolution, for a long time, 497 00:29:34,220 --> 00:29:39,630 Speaker 1: the fancy pants folks of this newly minted, emergent United States. 498 00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:42,620 Speaker 1: they had a big chip on their shoulder. They had 499 00:29:42,660 --> 00:29:46,700 Speaker 1: a lot of insecurity about the European cousins, which kind 500 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: of is– it's also part of the origin of the 501 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:52,120 Speaker 1: transatlantic accent. 502 00:29:52,140 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I mean, obviously, you know, American Revolution was 503 00:29:58,420 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 2: about separating ourselves, this country, from our, you know, European 504 00:30:05,180 --> 00:30:09,460 Speaker 2: overlords and establishing an identity that was independent of them 505 00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 2: both financially and culturally. But that doesn't mean that a 506 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 2: lot of the cultural things didn't stick around or had 507 00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 2: a little bit of a stronger foothold than maybe we 508 00:30:20,200 --> 00:30:21,820 Speaker 2: as a country would have even liked to admit. 509 00:30:22,850 --> 00:30:23,450 Speaker 1: Agreed. 510 00:30:23,690 --> 00:30:24,190 Speaker 3: Agreed. 511 00:30:25,850 --> 00:30:30,770 Speaker 1: We see that post-Civil War and then into the Gilded 512 00:30:30,890 --> 00:30:37,060 Speaker 1: Age of the early 1900s, there was a small, rarefied 513 00:30:37,130 --> 00:30:41,710 Speaker 1: demographic of well-off Americans in the States who were able 514 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,920 Speaker 1: to travel across the pond. As they would put it, 515 00:30:44,960 --> 00:30:48,459 Speaker 1: they wanted to be casual. They would go across the 516 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:51,780 Speaker 1: Atlantic Ocean and they would travel to Europe. and they 517 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:58,010 Speaker 1: often would pride themselves on returning home with ostentatious, performative 518 00:30:58,510 --> 00:30:59,670 Speaker 1: European habits. 519 00:30:59,830 --> 00:31:02,070 Speaker 2: Oh, geez. It's like your friend that goes to London 520 00:31:02,130 --> 00:31:04,650 Speaker 2: for a week and comes back talking like Madonna when 521 00:31:04,670 --> 00:31:05,770 Speaker 2: she was married to Guy Ritchie. 522 00:31:05,870 --> 00:31:08,290 Speaker 3: It's insufferable. It's insufferable. 523 00:31:08,310 --> 00:31:16,140 Speaker 1: I want to shout out a super hilarious internet post 524 00:31:16,220 --> 00:31:19,140 Speaker 1: I saw where there was a lady sitting in a 525 00:31:19,220 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: restaurant And she overheard people on a first date and 526 00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:27,220 Speaker 1: a guy apparently said, gosh, I forgot how to use 527 00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,290 Speaker 1: a fork because I spent so much time in Korea. 528 00:31:31,310 --> 00:31:32,990 Speaker 1: And it's like, come on, dude. 529 00:31:33,090 --> 00:31:34,690 Speaker 3: I mean, I have a buddy who's lived in London 530 00:31:34,730 --> 00:31:35,690 Speaker 3: for quite some time. 531 00:31:35,710 --> 00:31:38,950 Speaker 2: But I do rag him on the fact that every 532 00:31:38,970 --> 00:31:41,650 Speaker 2: time he comes around, I'm already doing it and making 533 00:31:41,710 --> 00:31:43,450 Speaker 2: fun of him a little bit. He asks if I 534 00:31:43,490 --> 00:31:45,910 Speaker 2: want to. go down the pub for a pint. And 535 00:31:45,930 --> 00:31:48,530 Speaker 2: I'm like, mate, give me an effing break. We were 536 00:31:48,550 --> 00:31:51,790 Speaker 2: in Boy Scouts together in Georgia. Stop it. 537 00:31:52,010 --> 00:31:53,750 Speaker 4: Ben, do you have to remind them to tip at 538 00:31:53,770 --> 00:31:54,090 Speaker 4: the pub? 539 00:31:55,230 --> 00:31:57,930 Speaker 2: Good question. What are tipping rules in the UK? Are 540 00:31:57,950 --> 00:31:59,970 Speaker 2: they similar to the way they are in France? 541 00:32:00,650 --> 00:32:01,470 Speaker 1: Well, roundup. 542 00:32:02,030 --> 00:32:03,250 Speaker 3: Okay. 543 00:32:03,510 --> 00:32:05,190 Speaker 1: Is usually going to be the one you can get 544 00:32:05,250 --> 00:32:08,050 Speaker 1: away with. So what we're saying is there was this 545 00:32:08,370 --> 00:32:11,780 Speaker 1: bid from, again, a very small part of the U.S. 546 00:32:11,820 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: population to seem more worldly, more aristocratic. These folks were 547 00:32:17,020 --> 00:32:22,280 Speaker 1: kind of insecure. They imported this idea of tipping from 548 00:32:22,540 --> 00:32:27,820 Speaker 1: old money Europe to the United States, and everybody else 549 00:32:28,180 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: in the United States saw this as a condescending, rude, 550 00:32:33,260 --> 00:32:35,370 Speaker 1: I'll say it, they saw it as a dickish move 551 00:32:35,830 --> 00:32:39,610 Speaker 1: instead of as a, Courtesy, because they were like, well, 552 00:32:39,750 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: you Gilded Age folks, you just want to keep up 553 00:32:42,820 --> 00:32:46,600 Speaker 1: with the European Joneses. You are, as a result, just 554 00:32:47,620 --> 00:32:51,820 Speaker 1: Jonesing to look cool, right? To impress each other. 555 00:32:52,220 --> 00:32:53,260 Speaker 3: Aristocratic. 556 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:58,670 Speaker 2: This tied in with two pretty formative industries in the nation. 557 00:33:00,410 --> 00:33:03,830 Speaker 3: Very, very high-grossing industries, right? 558 00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:09,280 Speaker 2: Railroads being the highest grossing of course uh and restaurants 559 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:15,550 Speaker 2: um and then of course the aforementioned uh spoiler alert slavery. 560 00:33:15,710 --> 00:33:19,830 Speaker 1: Yeah yep and as we said this is a two-part 561 00:33:20,050 --> 00:33:24,750 Speaker 1: episode you may have seen the title the um the 562 00:33:24,850 --> 00:33:29,930 Speaker 1: racist origins of tipping or the we'll, we'll see what 563 00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:33,290 Speaker 1: we wind up publishing this as, but we do want to, 564 00:33:33,410 --> 00:33:37,330 Speaker 1: as we're wrapping up part one, shout out the phenomenal 565 00:33:37,570 --> 00:33:44,180 Speaker 1: work of an author and activist named Saru Jayaraman. In 2016, 566 00:33:44,180 --> 00:33:48,180 Speaker 1: this author wrote a book called Fort, a new standard 567 00:33:48,540 --> 00:33:53,370 Speaker 1: for American dining. And as this author writes, explains in 568 00:33:53,730 --> 00:33:58,990 Speaker 1: chilling detail. Those industries that you just mentioned, Bill, they 569 00:33:59,290 --> 00:34:04,620 Speaker 1: embraced discrimination in a huge way at the end of 570 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: the Civil War because a ton of newly freed people 571 00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: were hitting the job market and the folks in power, 572 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:17,830 Speaker 1: particularly a guy named George Mortimer Pullman, said, how can 573 00:34:17,969 --> 00:34:21,250 Speaker 1: I screw these people over more? Thank you for the 574 00:34:21,330 --> 00:34:23,220 Speaker 1: thumbs down there, Max. I agree with you. 575 00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,400 Speaker 3: This guy's a pill. Is that not a good cliffhanger, 576 00:34:26,460 --> 00:34:27,520 Speaker 3: that very question? 577 00:34:27,540 --> 00:34:33,160 Speaker 2: How can I screw these people over more? So maybe 578 00:34:33,180 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 2: we do leave it here for today's part one of 579 00:34:36,380 --> 00:34:39,690 Speaker 2: the history of tipping and lead off part two, getting 580 00:34:39,790 --> 00:34:42,910 Speaker 2: into that racist origin that we teased. 581 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 3: Agreed. 582 00:34:43,980 --> 00:34:47,370 Speaker 1: Thanks, as always, to our super producer, Mr. Max Williams. 583 00:34:47,469 --> 00:34:53,550 Speaker 1: Thanks to, of course, A.J. Bahamas Jacobs, the puzzler. Thanks 584 00:34:53,730 --> 00:35:01,430 Speaker 1: also to Jonathan Strickland, a.k.a. the Quister, eternally known as 585 00:35:01,489 --> 00:35:04,580 Speaker 1: a terrible tipper. I'm kidding. I'm kidding, Jonathan. We don't 586 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,020 Speaker 1: know this about Jonathan. We don't know that about him. 587 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:06,880 Speaker 3: I bet he's a lovely tipper. 588 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:07,259 Speaker 1: I don't know. 589 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:09,200 Speaker 2: I bet he's a lovely tipper. Although, you know what? 590 00:35:09,219 --> 00:35:10,719 Speaker 3: It's funny you mentioned it, but I could see him 591 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:11,680 Speaker 3: having a bit of a Mr. 592 00:35:11,739 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 2: Pink view on this. 593 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,060 Speaker 3: But we don't know this. 594 00:35:14,380 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 4: I think I think I've talked with him. I think 595 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:16,980 Speaker 4: he is a good tip. 596 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:18,060 Speaker 3: I think he probably is. 597 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:18,379 Speaker 2: Yeah. 598 00:35:18,660 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 3: But he is still a monster. Well, that's even sure 599 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 3: for our purposes here. Matt, massive bad guy. 600 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,040 Speaker 1: Yeah. Big, big thanks, of course, to the rude dudes 601 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:30,610 Speaker 1: of Ridiculous Crime. If you dig us, you'll love them. 602 00:35:31,530 --> 00:35:31,930 Speaker 1: Let's see. 603 00:35:32,010 --> 00:35:32,330 Speaker 3: Who else? 604 00:35:32,350 --> 00:35:32,670 Speaker 1: Who else? 605 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 3: Well, Christy Frost, you know, doesn't use Jeff goes here 606 00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:36,020 Speaker 3: in spirit, of course. 607 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:41,180 Speaker 2: And thanks to Maximilian Big Tipper Williams for his contributions 608 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 2: to this research helmed by you, Ben, who I also think. 609 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,259 Speaker 1: Oh, my gosh. We'll just we'll get we'll all give 610 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,670 Speaker 1: each other 20 percent, which I think gets us to 611 00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:57,169 Speaker 1: 60 percent of whatever our tab is for this show. 612 00:35:57,890 --> 00:35:58,689 Speaker 3: We'll see you next time, folks. 613 00:36:05,890 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 614 00:36:08,860 --> 00:36:11,830 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.