1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,920 Speaker 1: Brought you by Bank of America Mary Lynch. Investing in 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: local communities, economies and a sustainable future. That's the power 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: of global connections. Mary Lynch, Pierce Fenner and Smith Incorporated 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: member s I p C. Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. 5 00:00:27,840 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: I'm Tom Keene with David Gura. Daily we bring you 6 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:36,600 Speaker 1: insight from the best in economics, finance, investment, and international relations. 7 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:41,600 Speaker 1: Find Bloomberg Surveillance on iTunes, SoundCloud, Bloomberg dot Com, and 8 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: of course on the Bloomberg. I want to bring in 9 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: Tom Keane now at my co anchor from Davos with 10 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: Linda at the annual meeting of the World Economic Form Imagine. 11 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: The focus is squarely the thousands of miles away on 12 00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 1: Washington today. There, Tom, Yeah, it's an interesting day. This 13 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 1: is experiment of a Davos that has been Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, 14 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:06,760 Speaker 1: Saturday and a great shift due to the modern schedule 15 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,560 Speaker 1: to Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. And to see who will 16 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 1: be here today, it's a very nice turnout at the 17 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: World Economic Forum. But of course here in a few hours, 18 00:01:16,120 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: let's market is five hours, David girl, all eyes will 19 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 1: turn to Washington at least four a moment. Some of 20 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: that will be washed watching Washington. Of course, she's been affiliated, 21 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:31,200 Speaker 1: I would suggest with democratic politics over the years. Laura Tyson, 22 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: the University of California at Berkeley, who probably has had 23 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: a number of people called hi, how is the faculty 24 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: at Berkeley this week? And UH, of course with her 25 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:46,319 Speaker 1: public service with the administration of President Clinton, Professor Tyson, 26 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: wonderful to have you here again. I think one of 27 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: the great conundrums, which has has been stated through the Stavos, 28 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 1: is we want to make America great again, but our 29 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: economic statistics is Michael McKee mentioned a bit of go 30 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 1: are pretty darn good. How do we get to the 31 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: people and assist the people at the margin that voted 32 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: for President Trump. I think that it is UH a 33 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: significant challenge for UH anyone, because part of the problems 34 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: confronting some of those voters are sectoral shifts in the economy. 35 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 1: Part of them are technological shifts in the economy. UH. 36 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: To the extent that those voters believe that basically calling 37 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: out companies to bring manufacturing back to the US would 38 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: bring jobs back to the US, I think that is 39 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: largely a mistake. I think If manufacturing does come back 40 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: to the U S, it's going to come back and 41 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 1: with much less employment because of technology. So I think 42 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 1: it actually is very hard to do. And I actually 43 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:55,400 Speaker 1: think that many of the voters who voted for UH 44 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,040 Speaker 1: President Alexa to be President Trump will actually see things 45 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: that really matter to them. UM be cut back, and 46 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: I would start and there with health Well, with healthcare, 47 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: is is the affordable CARECN We had Peter Orzag with 48 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: US and Douglas Elmendorff both with the Congressional Budget Office 49 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 1: and that bombshell report which I read the full disclosure. 50 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: Folks that read the executive summary cut me some slack. 51 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: I read the executives, not the whole thing. But come on, 52 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: this is serious, serious stuff about you. I don't want 53 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 1: to get my opinion in there. Professor Tyson, what is 54 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: the difference between abruptly adjusting any health care policy versus 55 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: phasing it in or thinking about it in a measured way? Well, 56 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: first of all, you have to have some understanding of 57 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: where you're what you're phasing into. So so far, all 58 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 1: we really have is the repeal of something we know 59 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: about and the promise of something we really don't know about. 60 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,720 Speaker 1: So we can't even judge the transition without knowing the goal. 61 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: I do think, and the CBO report pointed this out. 62 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: If you actually were to repeal without a path of 63 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: transition gradual to a new location, you really would result 64 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,560 Speaker 1: in a dramatic increase in the number of uninsured and 65 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 1: also a very dramatic increase in the price of insurance 66 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: because you cannot tell the insurance industry you must take 67 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,480 Speaker 1: care of pre existing conditions, you must cover kids who 68 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: live at home to the age of twenty six. But 69 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: by the way, we're not increasing the size of the 70 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: insured pool. We're not requiring that people with lower health 71 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 1: risks by insurance. The costs of providing that kind of 72 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:47,920 Speaker 1: insurance with a smaller, uh less risky, more risky pool 73 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: is going to jump. That's what the sea and that 74 00:04:50,440 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: is So that's so clear to the experts in the 75 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 1: health care industry, regardless of where your position comes out 76 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 1: in terms of do you lie affordable care or not, 77 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 1: I think experts in the industry know that if you 78 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: does repeal and you don't have a plan to move 79 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:09,480 Speaker 1: forward and you keep in those things that people like 80 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,599 Speaker 1: you're gonna get a huge jump in the price and 81 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: you're gonna get a collapse in coverage. David Gurran, New York, 82 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: Tom Keene and Davos, of course, are complete inaugural coverage 83 00:05:20,240 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 1: through the morning. Look for that on Bloomberg at Radio 84 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: with us Laura Tyson uh former chairman of the President's 85 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: Council of Economic Advisors under William Jefferson Clinton. I have 86 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 1: noticed the graceful exit of one Jason Furman over the 87 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,960 Speaker 1: last number of days. He's doing it with style and dignity. 88 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: What does a chairman of the President's Council of Economic 89 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 1: Advisors do when they're kicked out the door? Well, you know, 90 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: with change in administrations, UH, that does happen. They're moved 91 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 1: out gracefully in this case, as you said about Jason. Oftentimes, 92 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: what's interesting is the the staff economists have been chosen 93 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: for more than a year. So usually the incoming chairman 94 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 1: is actually working with the staff that has been chosen 95 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 1: by the outgoing chairman, and that will I think largely 96 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: be the case here. Um. The Economic Report of the President, 97 00:06:13,760 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: for seen, was written by the outgoing Council of Economic Proposers, 98 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: so that's a very interesting thing. Um. The incoming administration, 99 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,919 Speaker 1: uh C A right away. Historically has worked with the 100 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: Treasury and the OMB on putting together the administration's budget proposals. 101 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,799 Speaker 1: So that is really the you put together the forecast, 102 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 1: you work on the budget proposal. That's your first order 103 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:44,039 Speaker 1: of business. You also, as a ci A chair, have 104 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,359 Speaker 1: the responsibility for testifying at the Congress. It is a 105 00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: confirmable position. So one of the things you must do 106 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: is represent go up and give testimony, uh, and talk 107 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: about why, why, what the budget is, and what the 108 00:06:57,720 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: economic assumptions are. So the first lines of business, Laura, 109 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 1: help me with with corporate uncertainty. We've heard a lot 110 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 1: about uncertainty this week from the folks we've talked to 111 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: in Davos. I know that you sit on the A, 112 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 1: T and T board. Of course there's some some action 113 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 1: in the antitrust space there. But but speaking more broadly, 114 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: just about the regulatory environment in Washington, d C. How 115 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: much uncertainty is there for companies when it comes to 116 00:07:20,560 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 1: to regulation, when it comes to mergers and acquisitions. Well, 117 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 1: I do want to say, as you pointed out, I'm 118 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,200 Speaker 1: here speaking for myself and not for att in any way. Um. Look, 119 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 1: I think if you think about what what President Electron 120 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 1: talked about during the campaign. Actually, he talked about the 121 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: importance in his view of a massive deregulation including and 122 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: then a massive liberalization including deregulation and change and incentives 123 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: in energy, and then he talked about a massive corporate 124 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: tax cut. Actually, those to my mind are very h 125 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 1: They're important, so very important to industry, and they're waiting 126 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: for some of the specifics on all of those. But 127 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 1: I think on the corporate tax cut, there is in 128 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: general of you that something big will be done after many, 129 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: many years of talking about corporate tax reform sometime towards 130 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: the fall of this year. That will take that long 131 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: to get it done, and but that something will happen. 132 00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: The uncertainty that's been added to that picture, of course, 133 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:22,400 Speaker 1: is the border adjustment issue. And that goes to the 134 00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: issue that I think is of greatest uncertainty for the 135 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: business community, and that is what is Trump's trade policy 136 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,880 Speaker 1: really going to be? I mean, is he going to 137 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:37,560 Speaker 1: go after uh this tariff increase? Is he going to 138 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: support there seems to be uh sort of uncertainty here 139 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: on border adjustment, uh, corporate tax reform? Is he going 140 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 1: to continue his technique of calling out individual companies don't 141 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: invest in Mexico, invest here, don't And if you want 142 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: to serve the US market, locate your facilities here. Those 143 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 1: are huge creation of certainty because so many US products 144 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: at this point have a very elaborate global supply chain, 145 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: and so you could easily quickly affect relative costs and prices, 146 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:16,240 Speaker 1: and by moving in a direction of border adjustment taxes. 147 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: I keep thinking about a conversation we had with Richard 148 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: Edleman earlier in the week. He did in an analysis 149 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: of how much trust there is in the media not 150 00:09:23,440 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: much and government as well. How is your Democratic party 151 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: going to recognize that and react to that lack of 152 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 1: trust in government? How do we improve governance and engagement 153 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:36,320 Speaker 1: with governance in the US. So, so, first of all, 154 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: I think I've been pointing out that one of the 155 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: things the Edleman construct did not measure really well, or 156 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: did just to not talk about, uh, is the trust 157 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: that people have in state and local governments. So I 158 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: actually think that in the US what you are likely 159 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: to see because there really is a fairly significant blue 160 00:09:55,559 --> 00:09:59,319 Speaker 1: state red state divide on lots of major policy issues. 161 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: That's I said in California. So let's think about California 162 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: and the whole energy sphere and climate change and what 163 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 1: we do in terms of our own regulation, our own 164 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:13,599 Speaker 1: cafe standards, our own uh energy standards in general. H 165 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: we are We've always been the lead there and if 166 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,080 Speaker 1: Washington pulls back, we will continue to do what we 167 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: believe we can do. And there was a recent Brooking study, 168 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 1: for example, that said there were thirty three states that 169 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: in a period they give us two thousand and two 170 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: thousand and thirteen some some period like that, that basically 171 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 1: they were economizing on energy use while they were growing. 172 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 1: So there is evidence that you can grow while you're 173 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:44,080 Speaker 1: switching to more and more alternative Now there you go, 174 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: Laura Tyson there of the Hoigh School of Business at 175 00:10:45,880 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: the University of California, Berkeley. This is Bloomberg again. We 176 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,440 Speaker 1: welcome all of you this final day of the meetings 177 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 1: of the World Economic Forum. It is a Davos that 178 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: has many parts. Of course, we spend in a nordin 179 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: amount of time on the economics and the political economy, 180 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: speaking with world leaders. Thank you, Madame Leguard for the time, 181 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: of course. John Michael Twaite's important interview with Prime Minister May. 182 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: But there are many other davos Is, and I can 183 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: say that I've never seen a Davos where subtly and 184 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 1: more front and center is health. One of the constant 185 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 1: voices here over the years at Davos has been Toby 186 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: Cosgrove of the Cleveland Clinic. He has been there. I 187 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: can't believe I'm saying this. I'm doing the math. My 188 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:53,520 Speaker 1: is a that right? That is remarkable. What was it 189 00:11:53,600 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: like the first day, Dr Cosgrove when you walked into 190 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: Cleveland Clinic. I was so excited. I walked in and 191 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,079 Speaker 1: I felt that it was a different character. He felt 192 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,839 Speaker 1: the atmosphere was different. It was innovative, it was patient directed, 193 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 1: it was a team play, and I was thrilled to 194 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:13,800 Speaker 1: be there. There is a difference there. I've had family 195 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: members and acquaintances it travel to Cleveland, people go there. 196 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 1: What is the Cleveland Clinic distinction versus other acclaimed health 197 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 1: care facilities. Well, we have a different modeled care. We're 198 00:12:25,679 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: a group practice where when I arrived there were two 199 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: hundred doctors, and now we are That's remarkable. It's parkable. 200 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,479 Speaker 1: We've grown quite a lot. We all have one year contracts, 201 00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: we have annual professional reviews, and we're all salary. We 202 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 1: get straight salaries. So if I did one more hard 203 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,760 Speaker 1: operation that day, it didn't make any difference in my pocket. 204 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: It was for what the patient needed. Dr cosgro great, 205 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: speak with you again. Hold on, I got David Gurrow. 206 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,320 Speaker 1: It's like Walt Austin of the Los Angeles Dodgers. You know, 207 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: they get one year contracts a lo there. You go 208 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: year by year by year. Tell what what you're what 209 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 1: you like about Davis, what you're doing in Davis. What 210 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,559 Speaker 1: your conversations are like there. What are people interested in 211 00:13:05,600 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 1: when they talk about us healthcare? Just give us a 212 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: give us some color, give us some sense of your 213 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,120 Speaker 1: conversations there at the World Economic Forms Annual meetings. Well, 214 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 1: first of all, I come to novels because I always 215 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: run across new ideas UH and so I'm here to learn. 216 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: I'm very much out of my comfort zone when I 217 00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: come here, but I think it's very good for me, 218 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:24,760 Speaker 1: particularly because I'm running a fairly large organization now which 219 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:30,880 Speaker 1: has significant financial implications both for UH our institution and 220 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: for the country. And how we begin to look at healthcare. 221 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: People are very interested in what's going to happen, whether 222 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 1: we're going to have a repeal and replace. There's been 223 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 1: a lot of discussion about that. There's been quite a 224 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,840 Speaker 1: lot of discussion about how why I did not take 225 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:48,920 Speaker 1: the job as Secretary UH Veterans Affairs. Yeah, and it's 226 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: it's this. It's the second time I gather that you've 227 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:52,199 Speaker 1: been offered that that job. And I don't mean to 228 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,160 Speaker 1: continue the conversation if you don't want to continue the conversation, 229 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: but talk about that system in particular, we focus on 230 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: reform of the healthcare system at universally here in the 231 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:02,200 Speaker 1: US that there was a lot of attention a couple 232 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: of years back on on the state of affairs within 233 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: the Veterans Affairs healthcare system. What are the particular problems 234 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,920 Speaker 1: there's why they seem so intractable, so hard to fix. Well, 235 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: I think the Veterans Affairs has got a couple of issues. 236 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: First of all, it is the only direct service that 237 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: the federal government supplies for individuals in the United States. UH. 238 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 1: It looks after their twenty two million veterans in the 239 00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:27,240 Speaker 1: United States, six million of them get any care at 240 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,720 Speaker 1: all from the VA, and only two million of them 241 00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: get all of their care from the v A UM 242 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:36,320 Speaker 1: and UH it has been. One of the problems is 243 00:14:36,400 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 1: that it has been a political appointment in the past, 244 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: it's been short generally it is UH been someone who 245 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,400 Speaker 1: didn't know particularly very much about health care. UM and 246 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: the preponderance of the effort in the v A comes 247 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,880 Speaker 1: around healthcare. There are three hundred and sixty thousand employees 248 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: of the u v A, and three thirty thousand of 249 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: them work in healthcare. So I think it's terrific now 250 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: that they're beginning to look at a doctor instead of 251 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: a general or an admiral. UH to run the v 252 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: A well, that does see change your pedigree is to 253 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:13,600 Speaker 1: come out of Williams College in history, to intern at 254 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: mass General Children's in Boston and such, and then go 255 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:21,160 Speaker 1: on to thoracic I believe surgery. How are the doctors 256 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: and the nurses going to be treated by our modern medicine? 257 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: I get this question constantly from our listeners. Yeah, this 258 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: is a big issue for us right now. And in fact, 259 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: if you look at where doctors are right now, the 260 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: burnout rate is across the country. That's what I hear, 261 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: and there's that there. It's very concerning and I think 262 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: There are four things that have really led to this. 263 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: The first one is the loss of independence. Uh. They 264 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: now have to be part of teams, because there is 265 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:49,680 Speaker 1: so much information and so many things to do for 266 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: people that you can't just do it as a solo practice. 267 00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: The second one is the Affordable Care Act, and the 268 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,520 Speaker 1: Affordable Care Act now measures your quality, how, my how, 269 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: the cost, et cetera. Docs aren't used to this, and 270 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 1: this an enormous change. Number three is the electronic medical record, 271 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: and I'm sure when you go to a doctor you 272 00:16:06,840 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: find typing and looking at a keyboard not necessarily looking 273 00:16:10,760 --> 00:16:14,640 Speaker 1: at you. Doctors hate it, patients hate it um And 274 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:17,600 Speaker 1: for every hour that you spend face to face with 275 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 1: a patient, you spend two hours either with the electronic 276 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 1: medical record or with the administrative things. The fourth issue 277 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:28,200 Speaker 1: is a fascinating thing that we're gonna have to figure 278 00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: out how to deal with, and that's the explosion in knowledge. 279 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,480 Speaker 1: By the total amount of knowledge, and healthcare will double 280 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,920 Speaker 1: every seventy three days. No, but I want to get 281 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 1: to the nitty gritty here, and this goes to what 282 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: David and I hear about in interviews about the uneven 283 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: quality of medical care. In America. You came out of 284 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: uv A medicine, you got one of the charity fabulous 285 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: internships at mg H that exists at modern medicine. Could 286 00:16:57,560 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: you do that today? Is there such a ledge stream 287 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: today that the entering doctor now it's just so daunting 288 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:06,440 Speaker 1: that they can't do what you did years ago? Well, 289 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: I think you know, I have to. I have to 290 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,720 Speaker 1: say that I grew up with medicine and just let's 291 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:13,520 Speaker 1: talk about the explosion of knowledge. I started out operating 292 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:17,720 Speaker 1: on everything in the chest. I did heart, I did esophagus, 293 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:20,560 Speaker 1: I did lungs, I did diaphragm. If it was in 294 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,240 Speaker 1: the chest, I operate on it. It became the body 295 00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: of knowledge and the technology became so sophisticated over time 296 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:31,440 Speaker 1: that I wound up really just being a val surgeon, uh, 297 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: because that occupied my entire capability in my knowledge, etcetera. 298 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: And that's what I'm talking about with the explosion and knowledge. 299 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: So we are going to have to see UM organizations 300 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:45,959 Speaker 1: like the Cleveland Clinic come together where we take the 301 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,919 Speaker 1: burden of all this administrative stuff off the doctor and 302 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,720 Speaker 1: let the doctor be doctors. Doctors are not particularly interested 303 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 1: in being business people. UM and my example with me. 304 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: You know, I was there practicing Sir three for thirty 305 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,760 Speaker 1: years and I never said a bill. I never had 306 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:07,399 Speaker 1: to hire a secretary, I never did a contract. I 307 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: never had to go buy supplies and negotiate it from them. 308 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,879 Speaker 1: I just looked after patients. And I think that's basically 309 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,720 Speaker 1: what doctors want to do. And I think the more 310 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,959 Speaker 1: opportunity you have docs to do that, um, the happier 311 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 1: they're going to be. Dor Cosco, You've had the opportunity 312 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: to sit down with the president election to be the 313 00:18:22,080 --> 00:18:25,200 Speaker 1: forty president of the United States and talk about healthcare. 314 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,360 Speaker 1: I'm curious what he said about the Affordable Care Act. 315 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:29,639 Speaker 1: I'm also curious just about he's engagement with some of 316 00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:31,880 Speaker 1: the issues you've brought up here during our interview about 317 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: the future of healthcare, how it's going to be administered, 318 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: who's going to be administrating it? Um is is he 319 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: interested in the future of healthcare? Well, I don't think 320 00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:41,800 Speaker 1: there's any question he's interested in the future of healthcare. 321 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: He brought together four of us UM to talk about 322 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,879 Speaker 1: how we could help going forward. He brought together the 323 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:53,159 Speaker 1: CEO of Mayo Clinic Partners in Boston, Johns Hopkins and 324 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: myself to begin to have those sorts of discussions about 325 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 1: how we could improve healthcare and uh AID, the v 326 00:19:00,359 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 1: a UM and uh we certainly plan on trying to 327 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 1: help him going forward with our input very quickly here 328 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: in the limited time that we have amid the conversation 329 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,439 Speaker 1: about repeal or replace all of that. What do you 330 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:16,800 Speaker 1: want to see preserve what has worked about the Affordable 331 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 1: Care Act? What do you want Congressman not to lose 332 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: sight of? Well, I think we're headed in the right 333 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,119 Speaker 1: direction because we're moving from volume on the one hand 334 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:28,160 Speaker 1: to value on the other hand, and that really begins 335 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: to put the right emphasis on how you take care 336 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: of people. Much like it didn't make any difference how 337 00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 1: much Sir, cardiac surgery I did at the Cleveland clinic, 338 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:40,359 Speaker 1: I got paid the same. If we're taking care of 339 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 1: a patient, we're trying to keep them healthy. We're not 340 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,160 Speaker 1: trying to run up the bill for or do extra 341 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: things that is good for the patients. So that's that's 342 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: the good part. I think that they and you've seen 343 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: quality improve across the country. You've seen access to improve 344 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:57,760 Speaker 1: across the country. The one thing I think everybody's concerned 345 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,119 Speaker 1: about is the exploding car to healthcare. And there's really 346 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,320 Speaker 1: only two ways you're going to contain the cost of healthcare. 347 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,640 Speaker 1: The first is you have to have a more efficient 348 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,439 Speaker 1: delivery system. And you know, one of the things we 349 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:14,120 Speaker 1: suffer from right now is a cottage industry with lots 350 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: of hospitals independently. If you begin to bring it again, 351 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,160 Speaker 1: we're gonna have to leave it there. Police come back 352 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,320 Speaker 1: when we're in New York. Toby cosgrew. This is Bloomberg, 353 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 1: brought you by Bank of America, Mary Lynch. Dedicated to 354 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 1: bringing our clients insights and solutions to meet the challenges 355 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 1: of a transforming world. That's the power of global connections. 356 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:47,919 Speaker 1: Mary Lynch, Pierce, Fenner and Smith Incorporated, Member s I 357 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: p C. There was a celebration in economics recently over 358 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,600 Speaker 1: the announcement of the Nobel Prize in Economics to Angus Deaton. 359 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 1: It may not be a name that you know, but 360 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: you should know he is, I believe, the most ruthless 361 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:12,439 Speaker 1: economist alive today. He has been fearless about being a 362 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:18,320 Speaker 1: political and simply studying private and individual events and thinking 363 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:22,280 Speaker 1: about them in the greater economics. Professor Deaton joins us 364 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: here in Davos and comes asconced in an historic bow tie. 365 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: This is from your great mentor wasn't it? Yes, absolutely, 366 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,399 Speaker 1: sir Richard Stone, who was the first person who showed 367 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:35,320 Speaker 1: me what it really could be like to be an 368 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: economist to look at the data and was fearless and 369 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,040 Speaker 1: to come over somewhat like Gary Becker of Chicago to 370 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: look at the micro data, James Mead, Richard Stone, Angus 371 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,959 Speaker 1: Deaton and bring it over to a social good. You 372 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,600 Speaker 1: are focused now on the death rate of middle aged 373 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: men in America. It's actually middle aged men and women 374 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: excuse him, and it's whites mostly. And we just stumbled 375 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 1: over this by accident. No one seems to have noticed that. 376 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: But since nine UM, the mortality rate among white middle 377 00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: aged Americans, both men and women, which has been falling 378 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 1: for a hundred years, has taken a reversal and has 379 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,399 Speaker 1: either flat or rising today. Do you know why we 380 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 1: know the causes UM or the immediate causes that people 381 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:29,560 Speaker 1: are dying from opioid overdoses, UM, accidental poisonings, which is 382 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: drug addiction. People are dying from suicides which are rising 383 00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: very rapidly, and people are dying from alcoholic liver disease, 384 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: and and Case and I, who have been working on this, 385 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 1: called these deaths of despair because people are killing themselves 386 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,439 Speaker 1: quickly or slow. I think of Senator moyne Daniel Patrick 387 00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 1: Moynean's historic work on gin and the effects of uh 388 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: the Gin rage. If you will, of another century in 389 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: time of place within the United Kingdom, if we look 390 00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,880 Speaker 1: at opioid and good morning to all of you. Within 391 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:02,680 Speaker 1: the geography where this seems to be so painful, West 392 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: Virginia over to Cincinnati and such. That's not the East coast, 393 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 1: that's not the West coast. Can you link this medical tragedy, 394 00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:18,000 Speaker 1: this drug tragedy, right back to economic prosperity. It's harder 395 00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 1: than you might think, and it's also much more widespread 396 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 1: than you think. It's to the west. Virginian and Appalachia, Maine, 397 00:23:24,200 --> 00:23:27,199 Speaker 1: Florida are among the hot spots here. But if you 398 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: look at the maps of this where the deaths are, 399 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: they started in the Southwest and in Appalachia, and they 400 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 1: have not spread right through the United States. So this 401 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: is a huge problem everywhere. We've been trying to link 402 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 1: it to economic prosperity and there's got to be something there, 403 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:43,960 Speaker 1: but it's not so easy to put your finger on it. 404 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,440 Speaker 1: Because African Americans and Hispanics who have had pretty bad 405 00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: economic outcomes to over the last twenty years, their mortality 406 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: is falling like a stone. And right there, David Gura 407 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:57,360 Speaker 1: is classic angusinty. That's why a guy like William Easterly 408 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 1: at n y U calls them brave. David jump in 409 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 1: here playing Yeah. I wanted to ask you just about 410 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: the moment that we're at today, this inauguration, watching to 411 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:09,680 Speaker 1: see all that's led to it, the rise and populism, 412 00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 1: debate over uncertainty, what comes next. There are people here 413 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: in the US who feel disaffected, who feel like they 414 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 1: haven't been taken care of by Washington. Dovetail that with 415 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 1: with your work. Are we at a moment here where 416 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: inclusion is going to become something that politicians have to 417 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: take more notice of. I think that's undoubtedly correct and 418 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:31,080 Speaker 1: one of the themes here in Davos as I sometimes 419 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,119 Speaker 1: joke about it that everybody's using the same words they 420 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:37,800 Speaker 1: used before, like growth, prontive, productivity, technology, but they're putting 421 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 1: the word inclusion in front of them. Um, it's very 422 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: easy to say that. It's much harder to know what 423 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,560 Speaker 1: you could actually do, um, to address this problem in 424 00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,399 Speaker 1: a serious way. I mean, and those people were very angry, 425 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: they're very upset. They voted for Donald Trump. One can 426 00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: only hope that you'll deliver for them. I want to 427 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: ask you just lastly, we have limited time here. I 428 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about what happened to descend you 429 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:05,400 Speaker 1: were knighted, you're now Professor ser Angus high honor. Tell 430 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: us a bit about the ceremony and how you reacted. 431 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,439 Speaker 1: It just means he gets a better seated prince day, 432 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: I hope. So I don't think it's so hard to 433 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 1: get seats at Princeton Hockey. Um. But it was a 434 00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 1: wonderful ceremony. You know, we've been watching The Crown on 435 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,719 Speaker 1: Netflix and then it was likederful. Um. You go up 436 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: those steps, Um, you kneel down, in my case, in 437 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 1: front of Prince William when he hits you very gently 438 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: with the sword, um that belonged to his grandfather, I 439 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: think George the sixth And it's just very grand and 440 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,680 Speaker 1: many people are involved in it. So it's this great 441 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:43,080 Speaker 1: connection between the royals and the awards. Not just to nights, 442 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 1: but lots of people like you know, giving it for 443 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,680 Speaker 1: services to Karate and Brixton or something. There's real connection 444 00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: between the community and the monarchy, which is wonderful. What 445 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 1: a freshman kind of Well, we're gonna have to leave 446 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: it there. I'm sorry, we're out of time, Professor Deaton, 447 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 1: thank you so much. We look forward to speaking. Thank you, 448 00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: New York. Angstin of Princeton from New York, from Davos, 449 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: stay with us. This is Bloomberg is a short visit. 450 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: This moment with a gentleman who personifies one size period. 451 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 1: There's a short Angstein was justin so that was a 452 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 1: tall moment, but uh, it is a short moment, was 453 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: sir Martin sorrel Uh here at Davos, So let's get 454 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 1: right to it. I want David Gura to join us 455 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 1: as well. There are two kinds of panelists at Davos. 456 00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:48,439 Speaker 1: People that wax philosophical and pontificate everybody into asleep. And 457 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: then there's a guy like you that gets up there 458 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: and he gets fiery and he gets incendiary. What's the 459 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: fire this year? What's the thing on the panels that 460 00:26:55,960 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: makes people lean forward? Well, I think discuss about what 461 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: Trump means one way or the other, and what drum 462 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 1: means for the US economy. And then more puzzlingly, I mean, 463 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 1: it's more black Swan territory what he means internationally. The 464 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,439 Speaker 1: second thing is can China fill the vacuum? I've just 465 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: talking to some one Asian politician who said China will 466 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 1: may try to, but they can't and if they do, 467 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: that worries us. And then the third thing is Brexit. 468 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,639 Speaker 1: Is Brexit a good thing for the UK or a 469 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:29,400 Speaker 1: bad thing for you? I think those are the three 470 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: issues that dominated. One thing is I think if the 471 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: president elect or the incoming president knew the degree the 472 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: market share, the voice share that he had in Davos, 473 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,040 Speaker 1: he would be he would be absolutely delighted. Without physically 474 00:27:45,119 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: being here, he totally dominated the conversations. David, you've been 475 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,320 Speaker 1: paying attention to the panels, Sir Martin, I'm sure you've 476 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:53,520 Speaker 1: been lending an ear two and reading about the confirmation 477 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,760 Speaker 1: hearings in Washington, d C. These cabinet appointments are going 478 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: through their nomination hearings on the hill. What have you 479 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,800 Speaker 1: heard from then that gives you cheer, gives you a 480 00:28:01,840 --> 00:28:04,520 Speaker 1: sense that there will be cooler heads prevailing when it 481 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: comes to issues like trade. Well, I think the honest 482 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: answer is people don't know. I mean one of the 483 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:11,560 Speaker 1: things that there are very few people here and do 484 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: us that a part of the transition team, and there 485 00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: are people that were tangential to the transition team, and 486 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: they were doing briefings. Um. Scaramucci and Schwarzman and Liverists 487 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: were all examples of people that were we're giving briefings. 488 00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: And one of the things that they indicated is that 489 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:33,960 Speaker 1: the president, if he hears good, good arguments to things 490 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: that he has stated as being his policy, he will 491 00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,920 Speaker 1: change his mind. That he will reverse his direction if 492 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: he finds he's not a reader, but he does talk 493 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,040 Speaker 1: to a lot of people, and here's a lot of 494 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:47,680 Speaker 1: verbal communication with people, and if people make cogent arguments 495 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: what he believes to be cogent arguments, he will change 496 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: his policy. So there's a lot of uncertain He's got 497 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,480 Speaker 1: some strong people in the cabinet or proposed in the 498 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,800 Speaker 1: cabinet who will have strong points of view and not 499 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:01,080 Speaker 1: used to being told what to do. So clear there 500 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: may be some rigorous debates and some big debates inside 501 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: cabinet and there may be some different differences of opinion, 502 00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: but but net Net, I think CEOs are positive about 503 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: the US economy, particularly in the short to medium term, 504 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: meaning two to three years. Some believe, like me, that 505 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: there might be an inflationary driven, deficit driven Kanesian type 506 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 1: boom and that that will come to an end maybe 507 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:30,000 Speaker 1: or be under pressure in front of the next election. 508 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: But internationally it's all bets off. It's really uncertain uncertainty. 509 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: L Gore made the distinction between risk an uncertainty. Risk 510 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,200 Speaker 1: you can sort of attempt to manage. Uncertainty is very 511 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 1: difficult to do, and that brings black to black swans. 512 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:46,160 Speaker 1: And that's the big issue. We were talking with David 513 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 1: Lipton of the I m F about the future of globalization. 514 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 1: There have been conversations about a post globalization society, deglobalization. 515 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,320 Speaker 1: That's in the economic context. Put it in the business context. 516 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: In your world, is there a worry about the end 517 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,320 Speaker 1: of glob realization, Well, that's where the international uncertainty is. 518 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 1: I mean, if there is, there has already been a 519 00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:09,040 Speaker 1: contractem with Mexico. Mexico is suffering. Some people here think 520 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:12,160 Speaker 1: Mexico is already a failed state or is in danger 521 00:30:12,200 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: of failed state. I think Lewis Vittegaray has now been 522 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 1: reappointed or brought back as sector of State, and I 523 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: understand he's in in New York trying to repair repair 524 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: the damage. You remember he was the stimulant to Donald 525 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:29,479 Speaker 1: Trump's visit Pinyoneto in Mexico before so that China. What's 526 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: general trade relationships in various parts of the world. This 527 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,880 Speaker 1: attempt to rebalance trade and relationship is a real problem 528 00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:39,920 Speaker 1: and globalization. The next billion consumers for our clients are 529 00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:41,880 Speaker 1: not going to come from the US or Western Europe. 530 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 1: They're going to come from Asia, Latin America, African, Middle East, 531 00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: and centrally, very importantly, we don't spend enough time talking 532 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 1: about the modest success of the wire in plastic products 533 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: of company since two thousand eight. I believe you can't 534 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,400 Speaker 1: make money in start twenty five points six percent per year. 535 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 1: Is your gravy train going to continue? When I say 536 00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: that with great respect for the digital change of the 537 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: industry is the next eight years, I'm not I am 538 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 1: concerned about transforming our business from a digital point. It's 539 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: already forty digital tom and but we're very focused on that, 540 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: and I think the biggest thing I worry about, And ironically, 541 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 1: Donald Trump is important in this. His policy, his philosophy 542 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 1: is explained as he looks at the U. S. Economy. 543 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 1: It grew under President Obamba by one point percent compound 544 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 1: per annum over the eight years. He wants to up 545 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 1: the growth rate. The way you deal with inequality populism 546 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: is growth and jobs. That's the key. So in a way, 547 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: if he can get the U. S. Economy three or 548 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,480 Speaker 1: four percent, that helps. But the biggest problem we face 549 00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,800 Speaker 1: is our clients operate in the world. It's not their fault. 550 00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,160 Speaker 1: They operate in the world, which is slow growth three 551 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:54,520 Speaker 1: and a half to four percent nominal, low inflation or 552 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 1: they will get inflation in the US and the UK 553 00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 1: because of the devalued pound, but low inflasion, no icing 554 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: power and as a result of focus on cost. It's 555 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: the focus on cost that is the virus. If I 556 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: can put it up so strongly, it's the difficulty. Nobody 557 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,640 Speaker 1: is not enough. People are focusing on the top line, 558 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,959 Speaker 1: and that's where you succeed. You don't cut your way 559 00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:32,480 Speaker 1: to success, delieve it. They're smart. David Gura in New York, 560 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: Tom Keene in Davos, Switzerland for the annual meetings of 561 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: the World Economic Forum. We're joined now a man who 562 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:40,400 Speaker 1: was president and CEO of Kellogg, later chairman of Kellogg 563 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:42,720 Speaker 1: as well, former U S Secretary of Commerce, now chair 564 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: of the Albright Stone Reach Group. That's Carlos Gutierres. He 565 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 1: joins us from our Bloomberg studios in Washington, d C. 566 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:49,880 Speaker 1: Here on this inauguration day. Thank you very much for 567 00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: your time today. Appreciate it, pleasure are going to be 568 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: with you. Take us back to when you were going 569 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,720 Speaker 1: through your confirmation hearings. It must be a draining time, 570 00:32:57,280 --> 00:32:59,960 Speaker 1: a busy time. You're trying to come to terms of 571 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: the policy priorities of the administration are going to be. 572 00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:04,880 Speaker 1: You're trying to get your biography straight as well as 573 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,520 Speaker 1: I imagine what's going through your mind. What's going through 574 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 1: the minds of these set nominees as they testify on 575 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 1: Capitol Hill. Well, the the interesting thing, of course, is 576 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: that none of them have been confirmed yet, so I'm 577 00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 1: sure they're waiting to hear when their vote will be 578 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: and waiting to hear of any confirmations. But that is 579 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,280 Speaker 1: a bit different. I I had the advantage of coming 580 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,239 Speaker 1: in during a second term. So uh, there was an 581 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 1: infrastructure in place. Uh, The whole executive branch was staffed, 582 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: processes were in praise, and that was a big advantage. 583 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: The disadvantage for this administration is there they have to 584 00:33:44,040 --> 00:33:47,400 Speaker 1: create it from scratch. Uh. There are still a lot 585 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,880 Speaker 1: of positions that are opened. But but basically they're going 586 00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:54,640 Speaker 1: to walk into an office in each agency and uh 587 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,920 Speaker 1: and try to find a way of doing the work, 588 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: and in many cases they're going to find they don't 589 00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: have the right enough people yet. So it's it's a 590 00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:05,320 Speaker 1: lot different than coming in in a second term as 591 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,160 Speaker 1: secretary good years. There are a number of important quotes 592 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: I've seen in the last week. You had one of 593 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,799 Speaker 1: them and you said, I don't care if you ate 594 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:20,040 Speaker 1: your flakes at Kellogg's or whatever. When you get to Washington, 595 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: it's not the same as working in Grand Rapids, Michigan 596 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,600 Speaker 1: or wherever it was. All these CEOs and fancy guys 597 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 1: he's hired, maybe other than the generals have to adjust. 598 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: How hard was it for you to adjust? Well, you know, 599 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: I I suppose that what helped me was that my 600 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: expectations were uh were adjusted. They were fine tuned. I 601 00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:47,400 Speaker 1: I didn't expect to come to Washington and show everyone 602 00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: how it's done. So I think a little bit of 603 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,680 Speaker 1: humility is always good. Yes, there are some things that 604 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,320 Speaker 1: don't work as well in Washington as they do in 605 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,400 Speaker 1: the private sector. But actually there are some things in 606 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:04,280 Speaker 1: Washington that worked pretty well. Uh. There's some career people 607 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:10,920 Speaker 1: many most career people are extremely talented, hard working. Uh 608 00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: so uh you know there's uh, there's a there's a 609 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: big opportunity uh to do it right. Uh, but humility 610 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,880 Speaker 1: you you can't. It's just too complex. You know, if 611 00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:30,120 Speaker 1: you have a board of directors of thirteen people in 612 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: the private sector, you come to d C and you 613 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:36,080 Speaker 1: realize your board has five and thirty five people the 614 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 1: House and the Senate, and half of those don't want 615 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:44,440 Speaker 1: you to succeed. So it's a very very different environment. 616 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 1: And I think it would be minimizing the complexity. And 617 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,359 Speaker 1: I think it would be a mistake to come in 618 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: without at least a touch of humility, knowing what you 619 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,879 Speaker 1: don't know, and surrounding yourself with people who will keep 620 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,520 Speaker 1: you out of trouble. Secretary Gutierrez, I wonder what this 621 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,359 Speaker 1: administration is going to mean for the relationship between companies 622 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: and corporations in Washington. At d C, we've seen the 623 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: tweets coming out often early in the morning, singling out 624 00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,840 Speaker 1: companies in specific. I imagine they are executives who perhaps 625 00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,480 Speaker 1: don't live in fear, but are in fear that they 626 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,160 Speaker 1: might be the subject of those of those tweets. How 627 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: is this going to change the way that companies interface 628 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,960 Speaker 1: with Washington. Well, you know, it's an interesting question because 629 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: on on one hand, there is a sense of hope 630 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: among the private sector. We've all seen the stock market done. 631 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,800 Speaker 1: It's done quite well, uh since uh, since the election, 632 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: and yesterday it was up quite a bit. Uh. So 633 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's a little bit of of of two 634 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,040 Speaker 1: sides to this. I don't think any company in in 635 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,799 Speaker 1: the country wants to get a tweet from the presidents uh. 636 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: And I also don't think that that method is sustainable. 637 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: So we're going to have to put in place incentives 638 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:09,200 Speaker 1: so that people want to keep jobs here and want 639 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 1: to bring jobs here. And that's gonna be tax reforms. 640 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,879 Speaker 1: So for me, that's probably the single most important thing 641 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:21,279 Speaker 1: the president that can do is tax reform that that 642 00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,319 Speaker 1: incentivizes Investment Secretary good Years, help us here with an 643 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 1: update on how thick the Mexican wall has to be? 644 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 1: Based on your lifelong experience, do you think that we 645 00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 1: know all high it has to be? But does Mr 646 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:38,960 Speaker 1: Trump need an eight ft thick wall or does wall? Well, 647 00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,799 Speaker 1: you know, I think that is the uh. The the 648 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: wall itself is a big is a big issue. And 649 00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:50,640 Speaker 1: I think from here on, you know, enough has been said. 650 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 1: I think from here on it's how this is done. 651 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 1: If we're going to build a wall, uh, how do 652 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,000 Speaker 1: we actually do that? How do we convey that to 653 00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: the world? Are we really going to make Mexico pay 654 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:09,080 Speaker 1: for it? Can you do that in a way that 655 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:14,320 Speaker 1: the Mexican president doesn't lose face? We have to remember 656 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:17,359 Speaker 1: that there is a presidential election in Mexico in two 657 00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:22,680 Speaker 1: thousand eighteen, and we don't want to create the conditions 658 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 1: for a an anti American populist to rise up and 659 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 1: uh and be elected in Mexico. So from here on, 660 00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 1: we just have to be uh very conscious of how 661 00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:39,560 Speaker 1: we do things and how we do it in a 662 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: way where both sides feel like they kept face and 663 00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:48,359 Speaker 1: and we didn't totally bully Mexico. Um that that would 664 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,239 Speaker 1: be uh, that would be something that would come back 665 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,759 Speaker 1: to haunt us. All right, Secretary Gutiers, thank you very much. 666 00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,040 Speaker 1: That's a former commerce sector at Carlos gutierres twining us 667 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: from our Washington periority of course for the president and 668 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:08,080 Speaker 1: CEO of Kellogg as well. Thanks for listening to the 669 00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Surveillance podcast. Subscribe and listen to interviews on iTunes, SoundCloud, 670 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,760 Speaker 1: or whichever podcast platform you prefer. I'm out on Twitter 671 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 1: at Tom Keene. David Gura is at David Gura. Before 672 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:27,040 Speaker 1: the podcast, you can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio, 673 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:43,040 Speaker 1: brought you by Bank of America Mary Lynch. Dedicated to 674 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: bringing our clients insights and solutions to meet the challenges 675 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,879 Speaker 1: of a transforming world. That's the power of global connections. 676 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:55,759 Speaker 1: Mary Lynch, Pierce Feeder and Smith Incorporated Member s I 677 00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:56,200 Speaker 1: p C.