1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,680 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of the Mark Mass Show, 2 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: where we talk about, of course, each and every week, 3 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: the decentralized Revolution, talking about how the world of centralization 4 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 1: is breaking apart, moving too a decentralized world. Of course, 5 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: we look at it through the lens of politics, finance, 6 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 1: and technology. You know. I like to bring to you 7 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: some you know, education pieces you can start to understand 8 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: the world in better context, some latest breaking news headlines 9 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 1: so you stay on top of what's going on, and 10 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,440 Speaker 1: of course some interesting guests so you can learn from 11 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: other people than having to listen to me all the time. 12 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 1: And that's what I have in store for you today. 13 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,400 Speaker 1: I have somebody in the studio that I've been highly 14 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: highly highly anticipated getting in the studio. I am talking 15 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: about doctor Mike Fulgens. He is the president of Universal 16 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 1: Coin and boy on, you know, I am a sound 17 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: money advocate. I've been talking about inflation, what the Fed 18 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: is doing, you know, things like censorship of our money 19 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:51,919 Speaker 1: and all those things, and of course gold has been 20 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: the solution to that for five thousand years. So Mike, 21 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: I'm excited to dig into you. Thanks for joining me today. 22 00:00:57,360 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: Thank you. Just a privilege to be on your. 23 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: Show, Mark, Yeah, awesome. You know, I've been talking about 24 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: gold for a number of years now, for a long time. 25 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: You know, obviously I talk about bitcoin as well, but 26 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,839 Speaker 1: really I think about it from a sound money standpoint. 27 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: I was a goldbug really after two thousand and eight 28 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: is when I kind of got caught up into this. 29 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: And it was like after getting smashed like millions of 30 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: other people in the two thousand and eight crash, it 31 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: was kind of like, what the heck happened? And then 32 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: it was like Ron Paul leading the charge with you know, 33 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: in the FED. And then I started watching Mike Maloney 34 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: and like, oh, it's this fiat money system that's the problem. 35 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: Like we need to go back to a sound money 36 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 1: system like gold. Gold's the answer. I'm curious, like, what 37 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: was your path to gold? Have you how long have 38 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: you been around it? And why were you drawn to 39 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: it like that? 40 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 2: Well, before gold, my grandfather gave me silver dollars for 41 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 2: making as on my report card in second grade. And 42 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 2: at that time, the Treasury released hundreds of thousands of 43 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 2: Morgan silver dollars piece silver dollars brand new, and he 44 00:01:59,840 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 2: take his dollars down to the bank, get a silver 45 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 2: dollar and brand new, and he'd bring it to me 46 00:02:04,720 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 2: from my report card. Well, those one dollars back there 47 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 2: are worth fifty do one hundred dollars today depending on 48 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 2: the date and the condition, and that started me collecting. 49 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 2: I bought my first goal coin at age twelve, a 50 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: twenty dollars Saint Gaudin's, a five dollar Indian. I mowed 51 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 2: a bunch of yards at five dollars each, as many 52 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 2: of us did, to earn extra money, went down the 53 00:02:25,480 --> 00:02:28,720 Speaker 2: local coin shop and fifty dollars for a twenty dollar 54 00:02:28,760 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 2: gold piece would be over two thousand dollars to day, 55 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 2: and that fifty dollars in cash would still be fifty dollars. 56 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 2: Of course it wouldn't be worth as much, but that 57 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 2: drew me to it. I enjoyed getting the coins, I 58 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 2: learned about it, and I got very involved at helping 59 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:47,400 Speaker 2: local dealers at coin shows, and later taught counterfeit detection 60 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 2: and grading for the American Numismatics Association to law enforcement, 61 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: to collectors investors for twenty years in Colorado Springs. 62 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: Nice. Now I'm curious, like it seems I've I've seen 63 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: lots of reports and polls that have been done and 64 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,679 Speaker 1: just from my own kind of my own investigation as well, 65 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 1: it seems like most people, I mean, you know, the 66 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:11,239 Speaker 1: average public. I hate to say it, but the average 67 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: public is just not very informed right there. They might 68 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: be a little ignorant and stupid, if we might even 69 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: go that far, but you know, a lot of people 70 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: just aren't even really aware that the dollar used to 71 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: be backed by gold, or that the dollar isn't backed 72 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: by gold anymore. They don't really even understand that, right. 73 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 1: So I'm curious, like what it's been like for you, 74 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: like on your education standpoint, like trying to get people 75 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: involved into gold when most people don't even seem to 76 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: understand that their care. 77 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: Well, we're the official coin and bullion experts of the NRA, 78 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:42,120 Speaker 2: and of course there they say the three precious metals 79 00:03:42,120 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 2: of freedom are gold, silver, and lead, And yeah, we 80 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 2: handled two of the three and leave the other lead 81 00:03:48,280 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 2: to the other fine vendors in the NRA. But the 82 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 2: educating people is why we write books, we put out newsletters. 83 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: We've been fortunate enough to have them to invest in 84 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 2: the industry by our Numismatic Leary Guild. And I always 85 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 2: tell people buy the book before you get the coin, 86 00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 2: so you can learn about it, get comfortable with it, 87 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 2: and you should diversify with precious metals. I mean, the 88 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 2: World Goal Council does all sorts of studies showing that 89 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 2: a portfolio of ten to twenty percent weight in precious 90 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 2: metals performs better than one without. So it's something we 91 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 2: educate people with the materials that I, with the help 92 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:25,240 Speaker 2: of others. 93 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: Write, So that's diversifying some of your portfolios. You take 94 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: all your assets, your total investable net worth, and take 95 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:33,279 Speaker 1: a percentage of that and put it into gold. 96 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:35,920 Speaker 2: Right, I wouldn't. I would run from anybody who says 97 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,919 Speaker 2: put everything in my area. You might want some real estates, 98 00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 2: some a little bitcoin, you might want CDs. You might 99 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 2: want a little bit of a bunch of investments that 100 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:48,599 Speaker 2: you think are good. If you know something about one 101 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 2: and you feel really good with either your knowledge or 102 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 2: the people you're working with, you might have a little heavyweighting. 103 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 2: But I once showed a group of people I got 104 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 2: up on the top of a five floor parking garage 105 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:01,600 Speaker 2: and we're talking. They did wanted to give me a 106 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 2: seminar on what I'd advise, and I dropped a bunch 107 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 2: of eggs in a basket from five stories up, and 108 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 2: they broke. I said, don't put all your eggs in 109 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: one basket, corny, but made a point. They called out 110 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 2: the nursing home across the street, called the police and the 111 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 2: fire department. They are sewed up. They thought I was 112 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 2: a jumper. 113 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:22,119 Speaker 1: Oh no, shoot. So tell me about like investing into 114 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: gold though, right? So what about diversifying into gold? So 115 00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: you have obviously lots of ways that you can get 116 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: into gold, whether that be just straight boyon. Obviously there's coins, 117 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: there's collectible coins, there's gold stocks, there's gold miners, etc. 118 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: So how do you think through that? 119 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 2: Well, I deal with the physical gold, and I look 120 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 2: at the premiums over spot gold price that you see 121 00:05:45,279 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 2: on CNBC or other networks. And if gold, let's say, 122 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,679 Speaker 2: is it two thousand dollars a one ounce gold billion 123 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,120 Speaker 2: coin from the US Mint. The most popular one is 124 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 2: the American Eagle. Reagan signed that series into law on 125 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty six and we've had them at since the 126 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: American Egle Goal program. Right now, I sell it about 127 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 2: three point five percent over spot. Canadian maple leafs are 128 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 2: around three percent over spot, but dealers pay a little 129 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 2: more for the American eagle, and they make up about 130 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: seventy percent sold in the country. And why that's important 131 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 2: to to your listeners and your viewers is that you 132 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 2: want something that dealers will pay a lot to buy. 133 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 2: When it comes time to sell. Some things like the 134 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: crew Gran, they pay underspot, so you might buy it 135 00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 2: a little cheaper, but you lose two to three percent 136 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 2: when you go to resell it. And that's where you 137 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,200 Speaker 2: see someone knowledgeable to tell you do you want a 138 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 2: Canadian maple leaf? Do you want a US mint eagle? 139 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,599 Speaker 2: What bullion coin or bar do you want? I tend 140 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 2: to steer away from bars because it's tough for many 141 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 2: dealers to tell if they're genuine or not. There are 142 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 2: a lot of counterfeit bars coming out of China. I 143 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 2: was with the Secretary of State Mike Pompeo under Trump. 144 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: We're talking about all the counterfeits coming in and what 145 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,480 Speaker 2: if they did on the Trump administration to limit it 146 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:05,200 Speaker 2: a little bit, and how it's eased up under the 147 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:08,719 Speaker 2: Biden administration. And I'm on a National nd Counterfeiting Task Force, 148 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 2: and I tell you, the law enforcement I know are 149 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 2: struggling right now with some laxity of some of the 150 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 2: goods coming in the country from China. 151 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: How could somebody know if they're getting counterfeit gold. 152 00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 2: Well, the first step is to deal with someone who 153 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 2: has too much going to do them wrong. Have they 154 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:30,880 Speaker 2: won awards, they on national boards, what expertise credentials do 155 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 2: they have? And then where do they source their product from? 156 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:36,559 Speaker 2: Is it directly from the mints or are they getting 157 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: it from elsewhere? But you're really at the mercy of 158 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 2: trusting your dealer because the average person out there doesn't 159 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:45,280 Speaker 2: know enough in general to tell if they've got a 160 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 2: counterfeit product or not. I taught these classes for twenty years. 161 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 2: I teach law enforcement on it. There's certain tests. I 162 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 2: can show you a ring test. I put it on 163 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: my finger and I ring it compared to real goal 164 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 2: coins and you get the sound beat a silver goal coin. 165 00:08:00,680 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: We have electrical tests, but when you get to bars, 166 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: you don't have quite that. You don't have that ability 167 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 2: and the tests you do. They've been layering tungsten with 168 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 2: gold to make fake bars. I was talking to NBC 169 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 2: a few years ago on that and the rash of 170 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 2: tungsten filled bars being sold in New York. So basically 171 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 2: know your dealer and nowhere he sources its products from. 172 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: Right, and so then and then typically also if you 173 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:30,520 Speaker 1: just stay away from the bars and you stick with 174 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: more with coins, and you probably have less risk of that, right, And. 175 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 2: There's more ways the surface characteristics of the coins that 176 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,439 Speaker 2: we know, different tests that are true on coins are 177 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 2: tougher to run on bars. Usually if you can, it 178 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 2: doesn't mean you can't liquidate them. They just have to 179 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 2: send them off to get assayed in many cases before 180 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: they come back. The Chinese even counterfeit the holders the 181 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,600 Speaker 2: bars are in from the Mints, and they do a 182 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 2: pretty good job not just on the counterfeit product sealed 183 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 2: and plastic, but the holders around them. 184 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,719 Speaker 1: Now, when it comes to coins, you know, obviously I 185 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 1: understand there's the whole collectible coin, you know, the neumistatic 186 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: coin side of things. Personally, for myself, I've never been 187 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 1: a collector. I've never collected stamps or baseball cards, or 188 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: I don't collect fine art or watches. I just don't 189 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: collect anything. And I've sort of felt like they're you know, 190 00:09:19,080 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: when you get into collecting Pokemon cards. I have a 191 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: younger brother. He sells Pokemon cards online. It makes a 192 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: lot of money doing that. When you get to these collectibles, 193 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 1: whether Pokemon cards or stamps, or baseball cards or gold 194 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: or whatever, you kind of have to have that inner 195 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,079 Speaker 1: industry knowledge to know which of those cards would be 196 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: better than others. I would imagine you probably have to 197 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: have the sort of the same. There's probably some inherent 198 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,439 Speaker 1: knowledge you need to have in the collectible gold or 199 00:09:41,480 --> 00:09:42,439 Speaker 1: silver coin industry. 200 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:46,480 Speaker 2: Well, yes, and you'd need to know you're expert and 201 00:09:46,520 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 2: then have something you have interest in. Again, buy the 202 00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:51,520 Speaker 2: book before the coin. I have a gold guide out 203 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 2: that's thirty eight pages that was voted the best in 204 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 2: the industry, and you want to get materials, maybe not 205 00:09:57,400 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 2: just for me, for some other fine dealers that are 206 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 2: out there. I'm a member of the Professional Numismitius Guild, 207 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,040 Speaker 2: and publications put out by our members, which is the 208 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 2: leading group, would be a good start. But there are 209 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 2: a lot of fun areas to collect silver dollars gold 210 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:18,839 Speaker 2: coins that are classical from nineteen thirty three back. I 211 00:10:19,240 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 2: would tell, and I want them certified by either Professional 212 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 2: Coin Grading Service or Numismatic Guarantee Corporation, the two leading 213 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 2: authentics authenticating services and grading services I graded at PCGS 214 00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 2: and A and A, and I would tell people, learn 215 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 2: about it, talk to your dealer about it. Many people 216 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 2: collected state quarters when they were a kid. They collected 217 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:46,400 Speaker 2: all sorts of coins I did, and they want to 218 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:47,359 Speaker 2: get back into. 219 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: Them, right. Yeah, it's fun. I mean it's fun. I 220 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,840 Speaker 1: do have a collection of gold coins that are Saint 221 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: god Ins and they weren't too much over spot and 222 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,439 Speaker 1: I collected them in a year series, so I kind 223 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: of have them all. So it is fun if you 224 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: can do that without getting too far out there. You know, 225 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,080 Speaker 1: if you just tune in you're listening to the Mark 226 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: Mass Show, I'm sitting down with doctor Mike Fulgen's talking 227 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 1: about gold. We're back with more in a minute. Don't 228 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:14,679 Speaker 1: go away, I'll be right back, all right, Welcome back. 229 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: If you're just tune in, you're listening to the Mark 230 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: Mass Show, we're talking always about the decentralized revolution, how 231 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: we can build, grow, protect our wealth. Of course, gold 232 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: has been a great way, one of the best ways 233 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 1: to do that for five thousand years, which is why 234 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: today I'm sitting down with doctor Mike Fulgon. He is 235 00:11:28,840 --> 00:11:32,719 Speaker 1: the president of Universal Coin and boy On and we're 236 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: talking about different ways to look at gold and invest 237 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 1: into it. 238 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:36,520 Speaker 2: Now. 239 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:38,439 Speaker 1: You know one thing that I would say, you know, 240 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: I'd asked you kind of a question about this education 241 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,480 Speaker 1: piece and getting people involved into it. But it seems 242 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:46,959 Speaker 1: like really more and more people are starting to wake 243 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: up to it. I've seen some polls recently that people 244 00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: are actually saying it's one of their favorite long term 245 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: investments now. So we're starting to see that. It seems 246 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: to be coming back to me. You've been around it 247 00:11:57,280 --> 00:11:58,880 Speaker 1: for a long time, so I'm wondering if you see 248 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: this resurgence, and if so, I mean, what would you 249 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: attribute that to. Do you think like all these talks 250 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 1: of inflation and debt, debt ceiling debates and stuff like 251 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 1: that is kind of pushing this attention back towards that. 252 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 2: Well, I would say one of the the mottos we 253 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 2: have in the precious metals businesses gold is the bank 254 00:12:17,280 --> 00:12:20,439 Speaker 2: that never fails. Whenever we have bank failures, saving and 255 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 2: low in crisis, people wonder where should I put my money, 256 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 2: and they look at putting a little bit into something 257 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 2: tangible and hard assets like gold. Again, a gold twenty 258 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 2: dollars gold piece in nineteen thirty three was twenty dollars. 259 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,240 Speaker 2: Now it's two thousand dollars up one hundredfold. That twenty 260 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,559 Speaker 2: dollars bill from nineteen thirty three. What will that buy 261 00:12:41,679 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 2: you today? But yet that twenty dollar gold piece held 262 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 2: its value and increased in that time. And you can 263 00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 2: take that back for as you said, thousands of years 264 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,199 Speaker 2: to before Christ when it was money. So whenever we 265 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:56,720 Speaker 2: have uncertainty in the world, when we have banking crisis, 266 00:12:56,840 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 2: war or any of those things, a lot of people 267 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 2: around the world globally, not just in the United States, 268 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 2: flocked to gold, and I think more and more, you know, 269 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:10,320 Speaker 2: central banks in Singapore, China, we've had record central bank 270 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 2: buying of gold in the last ten years, twenty years, 271 00:13:13,679 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 2: loading up on gold. And we're seeing more of the 272 00:13:16,559 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 2: public in this country as you get uncertainty, they're looking 273 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 2: for other places to go alternative investments as you talked about. 274 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean you can see, you know, over 275 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 1: the last sever years. I've used these charts many times 276 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:34,439 Speaker 1: in the past, but central bank buying has gone shortt 277 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: short on treasuries. They're no longer stocking up on US 278 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: treasuries anymore. The fake money which I think really got 279 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,439 Speaker 1: kicked into highgear after Russia had their FX reserve taken 280 00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: and they went, oh, crap, what will we do, Well, 281 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: maybe if we had gold, And so what we've seen 282 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: from their balance sheets is net sellers of treasuries and 283 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: now net buyers of gold. And to the point that 284 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: you made, yeah, they're buying more gold than any time 285 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,200 Speaker 1: in history right now, which is pretty amazing. And if 286 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 1: you think about it, if you look at how much 287 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: actual physical gold is out there, you know, look at 288 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,760 Speaker 1: the comics and so forth, you'll see that if a 289 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,280 Speaker 1: nation wanted to take their sovereign wealth reserves of whatever, 290 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 1: one hundred million dollars and put that into boion, like, 291 00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 1: they can't just co get a hundred million dollars worth 292 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: of gold, like it's not just there for them. And 293 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,160 Speaker 1: I saw it today. I covered it earlier on another segment. 294 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,360 Speaker 1: But the Bricks Nations, we've been hearing more and more 295 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: about the Bricks Nations rising up, and now they've said 296 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: that their goal is to launch their gold back currency 297 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: by the end of the summer. I don't know if 298 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: you saw that or what do you think that has 299 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: an impact on all this? 300 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:36,920 Speaker 2: Well, I think it'll create you've got to back it 301 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 2: with gold, at least a certain amount of gold. You know, 302 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 2: your ETFs are bank back dollar for dollar with gold. 303 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 2: If someone invests in an ETF exchange traded fund. And 304 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 2: I think anything that puts more gold there puts more 305 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 2: demand on the market. I think long term you're going 306 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 2: to have ups and downs in this market is anything 307 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 2: but long term. We've seen gold going up from two 308 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 2: hundred and fifty in two thousand to almost two thousand 309 00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 2: dollars this year, So long term it's outperformed the Dow, 310 00:15:06,840 --> 00:15:10,120 Speaker 2: the S and B. You can pick different dates where 311 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 2: one is done better than the other, but since nineteen seventy, 312 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 2: since two thousand, gold has outperformed the Dow, the SMP 313 00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 2: in a lot of places. It's worthy of We say 314 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 2: it as a negative beta. It goes up when a 315 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 2: lot of other investments go down. So that's why the 316 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 2: World Gold Council recommends a portion of your investments being gold. 317 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you say about you know, really big 318 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: sorry gold hit. It is high in twenty eleven at 319 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: about two thousand, and now here we are, you know, 320 00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 1: twelve years later and we're back up to two thousand. 321 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: But the central banks have increased the money supplied by 322 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,880 Speaker 1: fifty percent in that same time period. 323 00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:49,920 Speaker 2: Well, I just think, like anything else, you have cycles, 324 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: and there are a lot of factors in play. How 325 00:15:52,920 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 2: much is being sold into the market by central banks 326 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 2: and other owners, what traders are doing. Sometimes they sell 327 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 2: off to cover law in other areas. But long term, 328 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:05,960 Speaker 2: the trends since seventy since two thousands, since two thousand 329 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 2: and five is upward, and I think that will continue. 330 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 2: It has since at forever. 331 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean what about I mean, do you 332 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:20,120 Speaker 1: think there's a lot of maybe manipulation or at least 333 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: suppression in the price of gold. 334 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 2: You knows, there have been lawsuits about that, about governments 335 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 2: trying to manipulate gold, because gold is really a thermometer. 336 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,880 Speaker 2: It's it's a measure of how governments are doing. When 337 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 2: gold's going up, it generally means currency is weaker. It 338 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:39,760 Speaker 2: is a direct correlation to the dollar dropping. And so 339 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,680 Speaker 2: when the dollar drops, that doesn't relate well on a 340 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 2: country and an administration, and so administrations don't like to 341 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 2: see gold going up and their currency going down and 342 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 2: weakening generally once in a while they want a little 343 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 2: weakness to help with trade or stuff. But overall, they 344 00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,920 Speaker 2: don't want to be the administration that cratered the dot 345 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 2: or created their currency. 346 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 1: Right, destroyed the currency certainly not certainly not the FED. 347 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:07,359 Speaker 1: I mean they don't want to give up control over money, 348 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,680 Speaker 1: for sure, and by having that dollar continue to lose value, 349 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: that would certainly accelerate that. What about you know you 350 00:17:14,480 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 1: mentioned since nineteen seventy obviously nineteen seventy is the year 351 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 1: before Nixon took us off the gold standard. Do you 352 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:23,719 Speaker 1: think that was a big catalyst for gold when that happened. 353 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a huge catalyst. And of course it 354 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:30,399 Speaker 2: was part with wars, oil rising and a lot of 355 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 2: uncertainty rising up to nineteen eighty by eight hundred and 356 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 2: fifty from the official price of thirty five, and it 357 00:17:36,040 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 2: really wasn't trading at that to eight fifty by nineteen eighty, 358 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 2: and so you know, that was a big part. I 359 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 2: did want to bring one other thing up for your listeners. 360 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,280 Speaker 2: It's very important. I'm on the executive board of the 361 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 2: National Coin and Bullion Association, and we've managed to get 362 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,639 Speaker 2: worked on different states to make precious metals rare coins 363 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 2: and precious metals sales tax free in a number of states. 364 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 2: Right now, we have some form of exemption in forty 365 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 2: one out of the fifty states, and so working to 366 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 2: get we believe precious medals should be sales tax free. 367 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 2: They're an iras, they are an investment, and we have 368 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 2: worked continuously to get state by state. I helped get 369 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:25,399 Speaker 2: Texas coins and medals precious metals sales tax free in 370 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 2: twenty twelve. 371 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 1: So that means when I that means if I were 372 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 1: to buy the gold from you, I wouldn't pay sales 373 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: tax on the goal. 374 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 2: Correct, unless you're in one of the nine states that 375 00:18:35,359 --> 00:18:38,320 Speaker 2: does make US charge sales tax eight to nine percent, 376 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 2: and on gold bullion I make one percent to two 377 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 2: percent sometimes less if you buy volume. I don't want 378 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 2: you to have to pay eight to nine percent in 379 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 2: sales tax. So you should all that's a state. 380 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: That's a state. 381 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,680 Speaker 2: Now you should always buy from a in a state. 382 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 2: If they ship it into your state, that's the law, 383 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 2: then they got to charge sales tax. So go physically 384 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 2: and buy it in another state, have it ship shipped 385 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 2: to a depository in a sales tax free on precious 386 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 2: metal state. A depository in Delaware that doesn't have sales 387 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 2: tax on anything in Dallas that doesn't have sales tax 388 00:19:12,680 --> 00:19:15,280 Speaker 2: in the state of Texas. On precious medals, you can 389 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 2: do that to avoid the sales tax, like shipping it 390 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 2: in to a state that might have a sales tax. 391 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:25,400 Speaker 1: That's a really good point. I mean, especially if you're 392 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: buying a considerable amount of gold, that sales tax could 393 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: really hit you hot. 394 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,399 Speaker 2: You spend one hundred thousand dollars on your gold investment, 395 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 2: you don't want to spend eight thousand dollars on sales tax. 396 00:19:33,920 --> 00:19:36,439 Speaker 2: If you could simply drive over a state line and 397 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,480 Speaker 2: buy it in a state that sales tax free, So 398 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:40,159 Speaker 2: that would save your listeners a lot of money. 399 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: Heck, yeah, yeah, I mean, you know, if gold would 400 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: go up by eight percent, that would be a good move. 401 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,040 Speaker 1: But here you are down eight percent right off the bat, 402 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: and now he has got to swing, you know, sixteen percent 403 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: for you to get that money back. 404 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 2: And we're working on a few more states. Arkansas, Tennessee. 405 00:19:56,680 --> 00:19:59,680 Speaker 2: We chomp away every couple of years. When the legislatures meet, 406 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 2: we show them the benefits, not a loss to the state, 407 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 2: the benefits and why other states have done it of 408 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 2: not taxing coins and precious metals. 409 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you're just tuning in, you're listening to the 410 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 1: Mark Moss Show. We're talking with doctor Mike Fulgens. He 411 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,400 Speaker 1: is the CEO of Universal Coin and boy On. He's 412 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 1: a gold expert. He helps detect fraud. He as you 413 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 1: can just hear, he talks to different states about gold 414 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,480 Speaker 1: policies and gold is on the rise. So we're gonna 415 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 1: come back. We're going to talk about the collapsing gold mark, 416 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:31,960 Speaker 1: or I should say the bank market. I want to 417 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: ask you about what happened in nineteen thirty three and 418 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 1: so much more, as we have a lot more to 419 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,119 Speaker 1: cover when I come back. If you're just tuning in, 420 00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:41,400 Speaker 1: don't go away. We're going to be right back with more. 421 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:43,359 Speaker 1: All right, welcome back. If you're just tune in, you're 422 00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: listening to the Mark Moss Show. I'm sitting down in 423 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: the studio today with doctor Mike Fulgens. He is the 424 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: president of Universal Coin and boy On. He is a 425 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 1: gold expert Numistatic coins. He's written the guides. He works 426 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 1: with the governments on pushing policy. You know, right before 427 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: the break, you were talking about how you're working on 428 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,480 Speaker 1: pushing states to drop the sales tax, which I hadn't 429 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:04,960 Speaker 1: really thought about that. It's a really good point to 430 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: bring up. What are the states that is there only 431 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:10,879 Speaker 1: nine states you said that don't have tax. 432 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 2: They do have tax state five like Delaware that has 433 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,919 Speaker 2: no sales tax on anything. We had nothing to do 434 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 2: with our organizations with getting coins and tax free there 435 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 2: because nothing is taxed. But like Texas and other states 436 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 2: we've worked on across the country, state of Washington getting 437 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,600 Speaker 2: them sales tax free on coins and precious metals. Some 438 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 2: of them have partial exemptions. Most of them, like California 439 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 2: over two thousand is exempt. Under two thousand, you've got 440 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:42,800 Speaker 2: to pay I don't know eight nine percent or whatever 441 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 2: it is. We have a formulae in our computer, so 442 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 2: partial exemptions exempt over a certain amount, except Louisiana, which 443 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 2: over a thousand is taxable. Under a thousand is not. 444 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,919 Speaker 2: They're kind of bass ackwards, so but you have to 445 00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 2: know that, and we educate people on that and also 446 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 2: tell people legally, like in Louisiana, if they don't want 447 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,480 Speaker 2: to pay the tax, if they buy one hundred thousand 448 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 2: and billion and don't want to pay eight nine percent tax, 449 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,400 Speaker 2: drive over thirty minutes to Texas where we are buy 450 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 2: it here. So Vermont, New Jersey, Maine, Kentucky, Wisconsin, New Mexico, 451 00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:21,399 Speaker 2: Hawaii all have sales tax. Those residents should never have 452 00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 2: it delivered to their state when legally they can buy 453 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 2: it or have it shipped to a state that doesn't 454 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 2: charge sales tax. 455 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, like I said, I hadn't really thought about that. 456 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 1: That's that's great advice. Now, what about I said, I 457 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: wanted to ask you about nineteen thirty three. So nineteen 458 00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 1: thirty three FDR passed executive order and made owning gold illegals. 459 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: He'sed all the gold that was in the banks, et cetera. 460 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,200 Speaker 1: And I don't believe you were able to own gold 461 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 1: again until nineteen seventy five. I'm correct about that. 462 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 2: Is that right? 463 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:51,240 Speaker 1: Ninety seventy five? 464 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,680 Speaker 2: I think it's seventy four, seventy five. I think seventy four, 465 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,480 Speaker 2: But it's same same range. 466 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. 467 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 2: Let me just say this. It was a recall and 468 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,880 Speaker 2: it was illegal to own except your jewelry. They weren't 469 00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 2: gonna take your wife's wedding ring. They weren't gonna take 470 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 2: collectible coins with extra value. But you couldn't hoard four 471 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 2: coins of the same date people turned it over. They 472 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:19,280 Speaker 2: melted down a lot of the antique gold coins. One 473 00:23:19,359 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 2: person did go to jail for violating the law, but 474 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 2: not a lot of people. But the threat was there, 475 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 2: and it wasn't a confiscation. Coin dealers who say it's 476 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 2: a confiscation generally have had trouble with the government over 477 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,359 Speaker 2: using that language. I had to work with the FDC 478 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:36,200 Speaker 2: and our state Attorney General, where I helped write their 479 00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 2: consumer alerts to talk about this. Now, it wasn't pleasant. 480 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,080 Speaker 2: You got the going price of gold twenty dollars in 481 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,160 Speaker 2: change when you turned in that one ounce of gold, 482 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,680 Speaker 2: and a year later they raised gold to thirty five, 483 00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,880 Speaker 2: So you wouldn't feel very good. The government says, here, 484 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 2: I'll give you twenty dollars and by you're gonna go 485 00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:54,719 Speaker 2: to jail if you don't turn it in, and right 486 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:56,359 Speaker 2: after you give it to me, I'm gonna raise the 487 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 2: price to thirty five. Well, people didn't like it, but 488 00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:03,000 Speaker 2: that that was a recall, the Gold Reserve Act of 489 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 2: nineteen thirty four, and that recall brought in a lot 490 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 2: of gold, and that's what happened back then. 491 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, yeh, they valued it. I mean basically 492 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,199 Speaker 1: just took everybody's value. So you're saying they did they 493 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,679 Speaker 1: kind of had everybody turning back in and then you 494 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 1: couldn't really invest into it. So I guess the average 495 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: public wasn't really into it for quite a while and 496 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: then have started buying back into it. But you know, 497 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,800 Speaker 1: when I do my research, you know, I kind of 498 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: I kind of had a big online disagreement with Ray 499 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: Dalio because Ray Dalio came out and put out a 500 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: piece and he said that the reason why the governments 501 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: would ban bitcoin is the same reason they banned gold 502 00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:42,920 Speaker 1: back in nineteen thirty three, is that they don't want 503 00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: a competing form of money. And I said, well, that 504 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: wasn't it. The reason why they banned gold back in 505 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,920 Speaker 1: nineteen thirty three is because they owed gold, right they 506 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: had when the creation of the FED started. They printed 507 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: way too many dollars paper gold certificates and they owed 508 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 1: the goal, so they needed the gold in the bank. 509 00:24:58,560 --> 00:24:59,920 Speaker 1: So I'm like, I don't think they're going to b 510 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: and again like they did in nineteen thirty three, because 511 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:06,439 Speaker 1: they don't owe gold anymore. Now, they just owe dollars. 512 00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:08,560 Speaker 1: I'm curious what your take is on that. 513 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 2: Well, over the years, they closed what they called the 514 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,560 Speaker 2: gold window because they were sending out most of our 515 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 2: twenty dollar gold pieces what's called the Augustus Saint Godin's 516 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 2: twenty dollars Sat Godin's were made were for balance of 517 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,919 Speaker 2: trade payments overseas where other governments wanted gold and not 518 00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:30,119 Speaker 2: paper dollars. And yes, we had to limit because we 519 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,720 Speaker 2: were running down our gold supplies in this country. And 520 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,119 Speaker 2: silver they closed that. I think it was back in 521 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 2: sixty eight where you could turn his silver certificate and 522 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 2: which was on all the paper notes and get silver. 523 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,840 Speaker 2: So in nineteen sixty six Lyndon Baines Johnson or it 524 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 2: was sixty five sixty five, I think he Lennon bains 525 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 2: Johnson said that silver would never be worth more than oh, 526 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,360 Speaker 2: I don't know, just the coin. The silver coins from 527 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 2: nineteen sixty four and before would be never worth more 528 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 2: than face value. And if they started to get higher, 529 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 2: they had a lot of silver and they'd knocked the 530 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 2: price down. Now you talk about suppression of price. Lyndon 531 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 2: Vay Johnson was quoted as saying they would do that. Well, 532 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 2: he was wrong, because that silver's worth twenty times face, 533 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,959 Speaker 2: those those twenty five quarter is worth five dollars if 534 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 2: it's nineteen sixty four and before. On my radio show 535 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 2: for twenty years, and i'd call in people want to 536 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 2: know what a coin's worth, the thing that was most 537 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 2: worthwhile when they went through grandpa's collection or what grandma 538 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,119 Speaker 2: threw aside, they'd have one hundred dollars in silver dimes 539 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,679 Speaker 2: or quarters. Well, it didn't have to be a rare coin. 540 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:44,240 Speaker 2: Right now, the silver value is worth like eighteen times 541 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 2: face So if you've got one hundred dollars, you've got 542 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 2: eighteen hundred dollars. And so anybody out there, if they 543 00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 2: have a Morgan's silver dollar, if they have two silver 544 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 2: half dollars nineteen sixty four data to before, it's worth 545 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 2: at least eighteen times. I'm the face value, and the 546 00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 2: Morgan dollars even more. 547 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:06,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I like to think about it. And I 548 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: don't know the exact math here because it changes, but 549 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: I would imagine in those pre nineteen sixty four coins, 550 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:15,439 Speaker 1: I don't know how much a gas gallon of gasoline was, 551 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: but it was probably about twenty cents twenty five cents, 552 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 1: and that same pre sixty four quarter today will buy 553 00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 1: you a gallon of gas. 554 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 2: You can go through a lot of great comparisons to that. 555 00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 2: When I got married in nineteen seventy nine, been married 556 00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 2: forty four years. My wife's Baptist, I'm Catholic. Were the 557 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,440 Speaker 2: labradoodlem of couples. We're Bafflecks, and we went on our 558 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,280 Speaker 2: honeymoon and there was gas rationing. We're glad we had 559 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 2: a little car that got about forty five miles to 560 00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 2: the gallon because we went to Astorworld and there was 561 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,959 Speaker 2: nobody there, but you could only buy gas on certain days. 562 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 2: In seventy nine, and our first house we bought, interest 563 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:55,399 Speaker 2: rates were up to thirteen percent to buy that first house. 564 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 2: We were very happy to get a first time home 565 00:27:57,200 --> 00:27:59,240 Speaker 2: buy alone at like eleven percent. 566 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,280 Speaker 1: Wow. Now, going back to the neumistatic coins for a minute, 567 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: for the collectible coins, the pre ban coins in that 568 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: to the point that you already made, they didn't confiscate 569 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:12,640 Speaker 1: jewelry and collectible coins, and so a lot of times 570 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: people think that well, if we as long as we 571 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,479 Speaker 1: stick with these collectible coins, then we'll be exempt if 572 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,760 Speaker 1: that would ever happen again. Well, on top of that, 573 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,159 Speaker 1: they can also increase faster because of their collectible nature 574 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 1: of them. Well, also I believe they're not technically monetary instruments, 575 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 1: so then it also changes like reporting requirements and like 576 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 1: ability to transport them as well. 577 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:36,040 Speaker 2: Well, there's some slight benefits on some gold bullying coins. 578 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:38,720 Speaker 2: You have broker reporting. If you sell so much not 579 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,360 Speaker 2: on the American Eagle, but twenty five or more sales 580 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,960 Speaker 2: of programs or maple leafs, we have to fill out 581 00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 2: a form. 582 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: There's but in like and if I had like lay 583 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,600 Speaker 1: eighteen hundred coins for example, right, you. 584 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 2: Still are required to get with your count. And I 585 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,600 Speaker 2: would say, and if you make a profit on that 586 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 2: or any other collectible art, there's reporting requirements. 587 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,480 Speaker 1: Things aren't sure those report requirements feel like it's private. Yeah, 588 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,040 Speaker 1: you would have to pay taxes, cap gain's taxes, but 589 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 1: like it what I mean. But but again they would 590 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:09,880 Speaker 1: be protected under a collectible as. 591 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:13,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, a portable I would say is whatever laws were 592 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,760 Speaker 2: written for nineteen thirty three were written back then. They 593 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,320 Speaker 2: could write something different now to encompass other things. That's 594 00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 2: again like your wife's wedding ring, your jewelry, your statues 595 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 2: are there. The public would be outraged if you want 596 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,480 Speaker 2: to take everything you've got that's collectible. So that's why 597 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,479 Speaker 2: they couldn't go that far with gold or other things. 598 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 2: But new times, new facts can bring for new decisions, 599 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 2: and you can't say forever there wouldn't be new laws 600 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,200 Speaker 2: made that might affect something. But I think you reduce 601 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 2: the chances, you know, it's like insurance. It lessens the 602 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 2: chance that will happen. 603 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, forever's a long time, we don't know. If 604 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,320 Speaker 1: you just tune in, you've been listening to the Mark 605 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: Mas Show talking about the oldest form of money that's 606 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: been helping us whether storms for thousands and thousand years, 607 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 1: joined by doctor Mike Fulgens from Universal Coin and boy 608 00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:07,240 Speaker 1: On check them out. That's what we got today. Thanks 609 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: so much for listening.