1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome back to another episode of the Mark 2 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: mass Show, where we talk about the decentralized revolution. The 3 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: way the world is of course changing right before very eyes, 4 00:00:08,360 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: going from a world of centralization, central planning, central control, 5 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: to a world of decentralization as we look at it 6 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: through the lens of politics, finance, and technology. It's always 7 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: technology that changes the world more than anything, and we 8 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: have a world changing technology in Bitcoin. Now. I like 9 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: to bring to you some stories, some education, some late 10 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:30,520 Speaker 1: breaking news, and of course some guests so you can 11 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: hear from people other than me, and I have a 12 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: returning guest in the studio with me today, Mark Goodwin. 13 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 1: He is the director of print editorial at The Bitcoin Magazine. 14 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 1: You can find him on Twitter at Mark Goodwin Underscore, 15 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 1: I n and anyway, Mark, thanks so much for coming 16 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: back on today and talk to me. 17 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:52,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, Mark, thanks for having me on. Man, great, great 18 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 2: to be back. Lots going on. I know we last 19 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: time we got together, we talked about a lot of 20 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 2: the things where we've witnessed in the last few weeks, 21 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 2: you know, bank failures, people realizing duration risk, ordinals exploding. 22 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,160 Speaker 2: So yeah, it's great to be back and yeah, thanks 23 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 2: so much for having me. 24 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, last time we were on was kind 25 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: of right when this whole Bitcoin ordinals thing started, and 26 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: we were kind of like hypothecating a little bit of 27 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 1: like what potentially could happen for everybody just paying, you know, 28 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: tune in that maybe doesn't understand what that is. Bitcoin ordinals. 29 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: It's kind of like this weird word. It's basically a 30 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: technological advancement, if you will, something new that's being done 31 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: on the bitcoin blockchain for you know, ease of ease 32 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: of terms. Basically ordinals has been away. The main use 33 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 1: case so far has been kind of putting these n 34 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: f t s most of you have heard of n 35 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,759 Speaker 1: f t s by by now, meme coins, things like that, 36 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:46,680 Speaker 1: and now they're putting them onto the bitcoin blockchain as 37 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: opposed to on you know, other blockchains, and so that 38 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: seems to be kind of the main use case for 39 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 1: that right now, and lately, like like this week, it's 40 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: been causing a lot of uproar in the bitcoin space 41 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: for a bunch of reasons. So kind of maybe break down, 42 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 1: you know, kind of what they are and maybe what 43 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 1: some of the potential use cases of them are for 44 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 1: right now for us Mark. 45 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, So, yeah, it was some tooling made by 46 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: a bitcoin dev in San Francis in the Bay Area, 47 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 2: Casey Rotemor and kind of the the general idea that 48 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 2: you know, at its core is it allows you to 49 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 2: store arbitrary data into financial transactions in a way that 50 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 2: is as as least harmful as possible to the to 51 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 2: the bitcoin. Why do you say arbitrary, I say arbitrary. 52 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:41,080 Speaker 2: It's maybe not the best word, but it's kind of 53 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:43,960 Speaker 2: the word d jore. But I mean arbitrary in the 54 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: sense that it's not innately a financial transaction, or rather 55 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: that the data that's inscribed is not directly uh you know, 56 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 2: it's not input or signature data relating to an actual 57 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 2: financial exchange. You're actually putting in you know, a file. Uh, 58 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 2: you know, all bitcoin transactions really are just you know, 59 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 2: you know, they're they're just bites, and that's how transaction 60 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 2: fees are actually calculated. And so I say arbitrary data 61 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:16,400 Speaker 2: because it's, uh, you know, it's an alternative use case 62 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 2: to strictly using bitcoin as a database for just a 63 00:03:19,240 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 2: financial exchange. So, you know, the first use cases we're seeing, 64 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 2: you know, it's a little bit of kind of a 65 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 2: rehash of some of the speculatory commodity uh, you know 66 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: stuff we've seen in the NFT space extended, you know, 67 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,040 Speaker 2: with JPEGs and movie files and and things like that. 68 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:39,960 Speaker 2: And now we're kind of starting to see where a 69 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 2: couple months away from you know, this this this tooling 70 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,119 Speaker 2: being launched, and now we're kind of starting to see 71 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 2: people grock some of the things we talked about a 72 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 2: little while ago actually, like some of these alternative use cases, 73 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: like you know, uh, you know data that you want preserved, 74 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 2: whether that's uh, the you know, King James Bible, whether 75 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 2: that's an t L three D printed gun file, whether 76 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: that's a Jason pointer for some you know, token mechanism 77 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 2: that people are building. So we're seeing all these kind 78 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 2: of new use they have. 79 00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: They put a King James Bible on there. 80 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 2: Yeah they have that fits yeah yeah, right. Yeah. So 81 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:21,679 Speaker 2: there's there's obviously technical limitations to how much arbitrary data 82 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 2: you can put in, and obviously the biggest limit being 83 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:29,000 Speaker 2: this four megabyte block weight that was put in with 84 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 2: Seguet and uh, you know, in ordinals inscriptions use that 85 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 2: segregated witness block extension to too very cheaply and efficiently. 86 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 2: It's very low validation costs for nodes, and you can 87 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 2: throw in uh, you know, up to you know, just 88 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 2: under four megabytes into a block and break it. 89 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 1: Into multiple blocks too potentially. Right. So absolutely, if it 90 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: was the King James Bible that didn't fit and maybe 91 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: it takes two or three blocks or something like. 92 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,799 Speaker 2: That, absolutely, one hundred percent. Yeah, they can self reference 93 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 2: each other and you could absolutely inscribe. I believe. Actually, 94 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 2: you're totally right. I think the Bible was done over 95 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 2: four blocks. Yeah, and not full blocks either, but for transactions. 96 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:18,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, when you think about it, you know, throughout history, 97 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 1: something I've been pounded the table on last week. I 98 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 1: did a whole segment on it, and I kind of 99 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: talked about today as well, but I was I picked 100 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: it up. I think with Matt Tayibe, maybe its Michael Sellenberger, 101 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: it's the censorship industrial complex and how really it's just 102 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: massive censorship, and it's censorship on our movement, censorship on 103 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: our communication, censorship on our transactions, but as censorship of everything, 104 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,720 Speaker 1: and they need that to maintain control. And censorship of 105 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: communication and materials has been part of every power that bed, 106 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,159 Speaker 1: you know, going back through history, whether that's the Roman Empire, 107 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: you know, the pros of Reformation, the fifteen hundreds, et cetera. 108 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:57,520 Speaker 1: And so there's always information that they're going to try 109 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: to destroy. There was that book Aaron Height four fifty 110 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:02,719 Speaker 1: one where they went and just you know, burned up 111 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:07,160 Speaker 1: all the books, right, and so trying to preserve history, 112 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 1: trying to preserve you know, books. The Bible has been 113 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,320 Speaker 1: one of those books that's been under attack, you know, 114 00:06:13,360 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 1: since the beginning, and so there's there's a there's a 115 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: thousands of years of history that show why it would 116 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: be important to have a way to do that. And 117 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:25,479 Speaker 1: what I like about it is like, you know, the 118 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: printing press obviously changed the way that you could print Bibles. 119 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: Used to do it by hand, word by word, but 120 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: then you could print them in mass. And you know, 121 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,840 Speaker 1: for decades there's been groups that you know, smuggle them 122 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: in and out of countries and things like that, but 123 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 1: now it can be sent digitally anywhere in the world, right, 124 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: And so kind of going back to money, and really 125 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: for me, it's something I've been kind of talking about 126 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: with the bitcoin space for a long time, where the 127 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: first killer app is money. But if we think about 128 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:58,160 Speaker 1: money as communication or money as stored value. Well, then 129 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 1: it starts to expand what we consider value in communication, 130 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: and then it allows us to share value, share communication 131 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,080 Speaker 1: instantly and some super resistant. It's pretty big other use cases. 132 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: I think it was Michael Sailor was talking about this week, 133 00:07:11,080 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: like potentially like a will. Yeah, so like if I 134 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: have a living will. You know, we've all seen the 135 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: movies where you know, someone from my family breaks into 136 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 1: office and changes my will or something like that, Like 137 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 1: that could be a pretty big deal. I mean, there's 138 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: who knows how many use cases there are for stuff 139 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: like this. 140 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, Data durability and immutability is I mean a priceless 141 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: you know asset. Really, I mean the thing that we 142 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 2: really love about bitcoin as a technological tool, it allowed 143 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: us to move money over time and space with you know, 144 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 2: unbelievable efficiency. What what are we really moving across time 145 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,280 Speaker 2: and space? It's information, durable information that you know, we 146 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 2: can sign and have property rights for. And applying that 147 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 2: to again quote unquote arbitrary data. You know, I see 148 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 2: that as sort of this just it's almost it's not 149 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: even an alternative use case in the sense that it is. 150 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,119 Speaker 2: It's really just utilizing bitcoin as a as an open 151 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: ledger and a database with a dynamic block market. You know, 152 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: you're buying block space anytime you want to make a transaction. 153 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,120 Speaker 2: That's how you get the censorship resistant quality. There's an 154 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:21,760 Speaker 2: auction for block space every ten minutes and you know, 155 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: pay the fee, get in the block And that's kind 156 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 2: of always what it's been. And now people are kind 157 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 2: of seeing, oh, there's there's there's more to it than this. 158 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 2: And that's not to say that obviously, you know, the 159 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 2: financial monetary revolution that is bitcoin is the most important thing, 160 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,720 Speaker 2: but you know it's a truth revolution and and and 161 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 2: downstream of truth, you know, it can be arbitrary data storage. 162 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And again you just kind of to kind 163 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 1: of go and expand like what is money? Well, money's communication, 164 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: Money is value, Okay, it's a transfer of value. Okay, 165 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: well then what is value? And so then all of 166 00:08:57,240 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 1: these things sort of fit into that, right, and so 167 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,719 Speaker 1: kind of have to start thinking bigger. That's kind of 168 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: the way that I look at it. But I know 169 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: there's some dangers that we've been talking about, you know, 170 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,680 Speaker 1: congestion on the blockchain, high fees. You know, now there's 171 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 1: talks of you know, changing the code, I mean all 172 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 1: types of stuff like that. You're listening to the Mark 173 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 1: Mass Show talking about the decentralized Revolution. I'll be back 174 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 1: with more in a minute. Don't go away, all right, 175 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: welcome back if you're just tune in. You were listening 176 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 1: to the Mark Mass Show. I'm sitting down with Mark Goodwin. 177 00:09:25,280 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: He's the director of print editorial Bitcoin magazine, and we're 178 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: talking about big changes that are happening on the bitcoin 179 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: blockchain and really to the crypto space overall, we would say, 180 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: because it's really disrupting the entire crypto space. You know, 181 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:41,680 Speaker 1: we saw maybe the biggest use case for the crypto space, 182 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:43,679 Speaker 1: you know, ethereum, et cetera, over the last year has 183 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: been in fts and meme coins, and now they're coming 184 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: over to Bitcoin, which I think is pretty interesting. Good 185 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: and there's good and bad. Like everything, there's trade offs, right, 186 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,200 Speaker 1: and so we were talking about before the break sort 187 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: of what they're really buying is just space on the 188 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: block right on the blockchain, and so now we're seeing 189 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,480 Speaker 1: congestion on the blockchain. All these these NFTs are buying 190 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: up all the space, and then when it buys up 191 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: all the space, it starts to push up the feast 192 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 1: and now it's more expensive to send bitcoin things like that, 193 00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: and we're starting to see revision of you know, the 194 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:26,000 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen block size wars, and people are saying we 195 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: need to make big we need to make the blocks 196 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: bigger to fix this. I think it's what is that 197 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 1: saying to those who don't know history are bound to 198 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: repeat it. And I think people should just go back 199 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: and read that book. I mean, what's your take on 200 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: this whole block congestion, high fee situation. 201 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 2: Totally? Well, I think there's a lot to talk about, 202 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 2: and I think it has a lot of implications for 203 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 2: the success and future of bitcoin. And these are some 204 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 2: realities that I think we need to acknowledge. I think 205 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 2: this is kind of the best, this kind of thee 206 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 2: mania we're going through, or I would say, maybe just 207 00:10:56,679 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 2: went through with this very big public mint that bought 208 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 2: up you know, megabytes and megabytes of block space. It's 209 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 2: a bit of a stress test for what bitcoin is 210 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:10,800 Speaker 2: going to look like when we have five billion people, 211 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 2: you know, trying to get in block space, you know, 212 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 2: every ten minutes. The reality of bitcoin at a mass 213 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 2: adoption level is very high. Fees, fees that are priced 214 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 2: in Satoshi's the atomic unit of bitcoin. And so yeah, 215 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,520 Speaker 2: I think we're seeing you know, kind of the first 216 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 2: you know, in the modern era with kind of you know, 217 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 2: layer twos a bit more established than they were, say 218 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 2: in twenty seventeen, kind of the last time we saw 219 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 2: block subsidy meet the block reward, or rather fees meeting 220 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 2: the subsidy. So just to break that down a little bit, 221 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:53,120 Speaker 2: when a minor wins a block, they of course get 222 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 2: the subsidy, which is the you know, the the the 223 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 2: issuance of new bitcoin, which is a set amount and 224 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 2: it has every four years, so right now we're six 225 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 2: and a quarter. And then there's of course the fees 226 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: that you get from the financial transactions that have paid 227 00:12:08,640 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 2: to get in the block. And so this is the 228 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:14,320 Speaker 2: first time since twenty seventeen where we've actually seen the 229 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 2: fee share of the total block award be higher than 230 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,160 Speaker 2: the subsidy. And we saw that a couple of days ago, 231 00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:25,640 Speaker 2: and that is a reality that's going to have to happen. 232 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 2: You know, we have a haning a year away now, 233 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,160 Speaker 2: and we have thirty i think maybe twenty nine havings 234 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 2: left after that and in which case, in around twenty 235 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 2: one forty, there will be no issuance at all and 236 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 2: it will be solely determined on if there is bitcoin 237 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 2: user activity sustaining the miners securing the network, and that's 238 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,040 Speaker 2: going to rely on fees being high. 239 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: So this is kind of a nice reason why high 240 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 1: fees is a good thing. 241 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 2: Absolutely, I think, uh, there's a lot of talk in 242 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,800 Speaker 2: kind of the alt coin community, you know, chirping about bitcoin, 243 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 2: and when fees are really high, they go, okay, look, 244 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,840 Speaker 2: you can't scale. Fees are high, I can't buy coffee. 245 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 2: And when fees are low, they say, oh, you have 246 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,160 Speaker 2: no security budget, you need tail emissions, and it's just 247 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,520 Speaker 2: it's ridiculous. It's like, no, this is what bitcoin is 248 00:13:11,520 --> 00:13:14,199 Speaker 2: going to have to mature into, and there's going to 249 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,520 Speaker 2: be humongous demand, and there's some mathematical realities to the 250 00:13:17,559 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: limitations of that demand. And you know, we can't simply 251 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,280 Speaker 2: have eight billion people holding their own utxo and transacting 252 00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 2: for all their day to day transactions on the main chain. 253 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 2: It just can't happen. So we got lightning. Lightning Also, 254 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: of course, you know, it requires on chain touches when 255 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: you open and close a channel. You know, there was 256 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 2: a lot of worry of people that had opened up 257 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 2: Lightning channels, you know four years ago or three years ago, 258 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 2: two years ago, when the fees were very low, and 259 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:50,720 Speaker 2: part of the trustlessness of these hashtime law contracts that 260 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 2: uphold the trustlessness of lightning, you know, you set your 261 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 2: fees for the force closes at the time of open 262 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 2: and some clients weren't ready to do replaced by fee 263 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 2: to be able to actually force close your channel in 264 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 2: a high fee environment. Is that trust list if you 265 00:14:07,960 --> 00:14:09,959 Speaker 2: can't close to the main chain, right, So there's a 266 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 2: lot of stuff we have to look at and just 267 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 2: be honest about scaling and where we're going to go. 268 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:17,680 Speaker 2: And I think this is a great stress test because 269 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 2: it's going to subside, you know, the mania will will die. 270 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 2: And I think a lot of people look at this 271 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 2: as an attack of some sort, and it's like, well, 272 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 2: remember this is bitcoin. Thanks thanks for paying our miners 273 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,320 Speaker 2: and wasting all of your bitcoin, you know, doing this 274 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 2: quote unquote spam attack. If that's what this is. You've 275 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 2: sustained the market and fed our miners. Thank you. Yeah, 276 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 2: and now we get to learn from it. That's really 277 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 2: how I look at it. 278 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been kind of looking at the same way. 279 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: And just so for everybody that's kind of catching up 280 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: on this, if it's a little bit over your head, 281 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,400 Speaker 1: you know, you can send bitcoin on the main blockchain, 282 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: which is final settlement, and now it's congested, so it's 283 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: costing me a little bit more money, but you can 284 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,760 Speaker 1: move it over Lightning for almost instant and free. And 285 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 1: so if you want to buy the cough, send it 286 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: over Lightning. Now people say, but it's centralized, Well, it's 287 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 1: more centralized, but for a cup of coffee, what do 288 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: I care? If I'm going to buy a house, I mean, 289 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: what's the big deal. It's cheaper than a wire transfer, 290 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 1: So I'll just do it that way. So you can 291 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:16,240 Speaker 1: choose what your fee level is, how much security you want, 292 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,360 Speaker 1: and so that's great. I think I think more security 293 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: is better. I'd also say some of this potential attack 294 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 1: seems like there's some credibility there, because it looks like 295 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff that's being posted on there 296 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: is just garbage, and so potentially it is. But to 297 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,280 Speaker 1: your point, well, they're going to run out of money, 298 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: and thanks for pain. Pain for more security, which is interesting. 299 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 1: But one thing I saw that to me seems a 300 00:15:36,640 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: little bit concerning is Luke deschar or however you pronounce 301 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:44,920 Speaker 1: his last name, that's year. I mean, he's been a 302 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,360 Speaker 1: bigcin core developer, you know, for a long time, for 303 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: over a decade, and you know, he obviously hates ordinals, 304 00:15:50,760 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: and now he's talking about how we could create another 305 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: software update to stop them by treating them as spam 306 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: that would filter out you know, tap fruit transactions that 307 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: have ordinals in it. And I am already I thought, 308 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 1: I think maybe we talked about this on the last show, 309 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: was like, you know, do we need to be more 310 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: thoughtful about changing the bitcoin blockchain because now we have 311 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: unintended consequences and now it's like, what are we gonna do. 312 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: We're gonna have this knee jerk reaction. We're constantly trying 313 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: to like change chain change, and I think that's a 314 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:22,520 Speaker 1: dangerous situation to get in. I don't know what your 315 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: opinion is on that. 316 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. I mean I think there's two big things 317 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 2: that are the first one being one of the most 318 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:31,440 Speaker 2: important bitcoin developers, who was essential in figuring out how 319 00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 2: to do segue as a softwork, hates a humongous amount 320 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 2: of the activity on bitcoin right now, and yet is 321 00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 2: actually pretty powerless to being able to do anything to 322 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 2: stop it, which is a beauty of bitcoin, a sensorless, 323 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 2: censorship resistant public good. And I respect Luke's opinion. I 324 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 2: disagree in some ways. I mean, you know, what does 325 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,920 Speaker 2: that matter? But I think so, I think that that's 326 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 2: really important. And then as regards to the in regards 327 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 2: to the knee jerk reaction stuff, I think we should 328 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 2: be having a knee jerk reaction to the realities of 329 00:17:04,520 --> 00:17:06,720 Speaker 2: what we just went through in a high fee environment. 330 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:09,639 Speaker 2: And if we're going to look at a change to bitcoin, 331 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 2: which I think inevitable, I mean, first off, we have 332 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:15,919 Speaker 2: to literally fork just to fix the overflow bug. We 333 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 2: have a lot of time to deal with that. There's 334 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:21,480 Speaker 2: just a little time stamping overflow bug that's very easy fixed. 335 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 2: But we do need to fork to fix it. So 336 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 2: there is an inevitability of that. But I think we 337 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 2: got to look at the realities of what we just 338 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 2: went through with as a fee market, make sure we're 339 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 2: ready to really scale to layer two and beyond. You know, 340 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 2: we're gonna need financial services to service eight billion people, 341 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 2: five billion people one billion people. Yeah, so I do 342 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 2: hesitate and and and want you know, those to really 343 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,720 Speaker 2: think about this, and yeah, let's not move too fast 344 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 2: and break stuff. There's a reason why we did segue. 345 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,800 Speaker 2: We did tap root, and we have the discount witness 346 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 2: and we should you know, remember that and learn from 347 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 2: the high fees and got it. 348 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta cut you off there because I 349 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,400 Speaker 1: gotta take a quick break. If here's just two listen 350 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: to the Mark Mass Show sitting down with Mark Goodwin. 351 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 1: We're back with more in a minute. Don't go away, 352 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: we got more to coming, all right. If you just 353 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:07,560 Speaker 1: tune in your listening to the Mark Mass Show. I'm 354 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 1: sitting down with Mark Goodwin. He's the director of print 355 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: editorial at Bitcoin Magazine, and we're talking about the changes 356 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 1: that have been going on on the bitcoin blockchain space 357 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: and the crypto space overall. This week, it's been a 358 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: lot of noise and so we were just talking about that. 359 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: If you're just tune in, you know you were talking 360 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: about right before I had to cut you off, we 361 00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:28,280 Speaker 1: had that commercial break. But how you know, it's a 362 00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: good test. It's a stress test, and we grow through stress. 363 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: We need stress because that shows us where we need 364 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: to grow, it helps us grow, and so from that perspective, 365 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,080 Speaker 1: I think it's a good thing. I'm curious, do you think. 366 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a free market guy, so I think 367 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: the free market sort of figures this thing out. It 368 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: seems like if and again we kind of I said earlier, 369 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 1: you know, looking at some of these this stuff that's 370 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: been put on there, it does look like it's spam. 371 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: But even if it's not spam, even if it's a 372 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 1: legitimate jpeg or whatever, don't you think at some point, 373 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: I mean, the market takes care of that, where like, hey, 374 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: this is too slow and it's too expensive, let's just 375 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:06,960 Speaker 1: go to BSV, you know, or something like that. Let's 376 00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,600 Speaker 1: just go to where the big blocks already are. And 377 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,640 Speaker 1: so at some point the market sort of starts pricing 378 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 1: that out. I would think monetary transactions are always going 379 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,240 Speaker 1: to be willing to pay more than a jpeg would pay. 380 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I actually think that's you know, kind of 381 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:21,760 Speaker 2: to the last the last segment there where we were 382 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 2: talking about things we could actually do to limit spam. 383 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 2: You know, one of the things we could do, you know, 384 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 2: or really the only thing we could do is make 385 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:33,439 Speaker 2: it more expensive. You know, people always had the ability 386 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,719 Speaker 2: to put arbitrary data into bitcoin, So the restrictions that 387 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,160 Speaker 2: we would we would put in would really just increase 388 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 2: the cost for the user to imbue data, but probably 389 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 2: only by a factor of two or four, just depending 390 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:50,360 Speaker 2: on the limitations of the protocol. What you can actually 391 00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 2: uh you know, make make the block spase more expensive 392 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 2: the market if that's enough to you know, to to 393 00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 2: stop these transactions. The market is going to two act 394 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 2: four x, ten x one hundred x and fees uh 395 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 2: you know, any time there's that there there's sort of 396 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,600 Speaker 2: this this demand uh you know explosion. So the market 397 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,880 Speaker 2: is is already going to be uh pricing these JPEGs out. 398 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 2: And you're exactly right about the financial transactions versus this 399 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 2: this these jpeg or this arbitrary data, is that they 400 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 2: take advantage of this segue discount, and so they're priced 401 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 2: lower than inputs and outputs which are not part of 402 00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 2: the segregated witness, and they pay the full weight of 403 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,879 Speaker 2: the fee. So financial transactions will innately you know, cost 404 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:37,160 Speaker 2: more and be weightier. 405 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: Uh. 406 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 2: And that's how the bitcoin actually looks at financial transaction fees. Right, 407 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 2: the bitcoin fees on the main layer aren't based on 408 00:20:44,840 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 2: the financial value of the transaction, it's the bite size. 409 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 2: So there we are again. So yeah, I think financial 410 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 2: transactions will absolutely outpace and these large transactions simply won't scale. 411 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 2: It's going to be unbelievably prohibitively expensive to put in 412 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,479 Speaker 2: large files when there's any sort of demand on block space. 413 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, so get all those important books like the Bible 414 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: and your three gun sematics and get all those in. 415 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,719 Speaker 2: Now, yes, exactly, Like what do you want to preserve? 416 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 2: Yeah exactly. 417 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:19,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's still there, get it in there. But 418 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,159 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I think also you kind of 419 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 1: have to put these things into perspective. And so it's 420 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: certainly too much money and takes way too long for 421 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,879 Speaker 1: a cup of coffee. But if you want to preserve 422 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: your will, like I mean, dude, you pay a thousand 423 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,119 Speaker 1: bucks to preserve your will, like, so what right? So 424 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,479 Speaker 1: I think it kind of depends that way. We were 425 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 1: talking about. You know something again back to I've been 426 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: talking about a lot, is this censorship and so the 427 00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:46,120 Speaker 1: censorship complex, and we're seeing it happening all over. Big 428 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:50,200 Speaker 1: news this week came out, you know, Elon must seems 429 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: to have I'm always skeptical, but seems to have really 430 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,920 Speaker 1: taken over Twitter to kind of really help the free 431 00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 1: speech uh you know effort, let's say, exposing you know, 432 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: the things with the Twitter files, things like that. Potentially, 433 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: it looks like he's now even opening up his platform 434 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,159 Speaker 1: for Tucker Carlson to come over from Fox News, and 435 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 1: as we were kind of talking before the break, he's 436 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: even bringing on a new CEO and launching things like 437 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:19,800 Speaker 1: encrypted chat. How do you view like a centralized app 438 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: like this kind of moving into this kind of war 439 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 1: on free speech and encryption, et cetera. 440 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, it it. I think you kind of nailed 441 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,800 Speaker 2: it there. There's sort of this weird almost oxymoron of like, 442 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,840 Speaker 2: you know, we're defeating the gatekeepers by creating this all 443 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 2: in centralized app where we can have Tucker Carlson and 444 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 2: we can have you know, kind of uncensored socratic discourse. Right. 445 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,919 Speaker 2: It is sort of strange, and I agree with you, 446 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:48,520 Speaker 2: I kind of, you know, I have my reservations about Musk, 447 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,720 Speaker 2: but also I think what he's done, you know, recently 448 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 2: in regards to you know, me being a free speech absolutist, 449 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 2: I think you kind of sort of have to tip 450 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:56,919 Speaker 2: your hat to that. 451 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:57,360 Speaker 1: Yep. 452 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 2: And that's why we're seeing a Tucker Carlson has who 453 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:03,959 Speaker 2: you know, his audience's millions and millions. And to go 454 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,639 Speaker 2: to Twitter, I think is a very that's a sign post, 455 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 2: you know, of this sort of you know, as you 456 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,919 Speaker 2: say that decentralized revolution in a way, he can shoot 457 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,480 Speaker 2: it out of his home and post it right online, 458 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,159 Speaker 2: you know, to the marketplace of ideas. I think that 459 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,959 Speaker 2: there's some interesting things of you know, where X or 460 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,120 Speaker 2: sort of Twitter, this kind of we chat USA thing 461 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 2: will go. I'm very curious because you know, I do hesitate. 462 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,840 Speaker 2: I think when centralization happens to an app, I get 463 00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 2: worried because I've been burned so much. 464 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: You know, I had Whitney web on I don't a 465 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: week or two ago, and you know her think she's 466 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,639 Speaker 1: not a fan of Elon Musk, right, you know, And 467 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 1: and to your point, I think, I think, you know, 468 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:47,680 Speaker 1: one thing that people lack, the public lacks these days, 469 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: is nuance and so you don't have to be one 470 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:52,719 Speaker 1: hundred percent all in on somebody or out on somebody. 471 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: There's to your point, there's things that he's done that 472 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 1: I like and I think are good, and there's things 473 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,359 Speaker 1: that he's done that I don't think are good, and 474 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: so I don't have to be all in on anything. 475 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:03,960 Speaker 1: But you know, her kind of viewpoint, and I tend 476 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: to agree with her, is that everything that we're seeing 477 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:14,359 Speaker 1: and discussing and fighting over is a distraction. Russia, Ukraine, China, Taiwan, 478 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: a cultural war in the United States, like, all of 479 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: this is all a distraction, and the distracting us from what, well, 480 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: distrust distracting us from the ultimate goal. What's the ultimate goal. 481 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: The ultimate goal is putting U into his digital panopticon, 482 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:31,639 Speaker 1: where we have digital passports that restrict our movement, digital 483 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: passports for our money, and it's total digital control. And 484 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: so she says that is the ultimate goal. And Putin 485 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 1: is saying, hey, the West, they're for transitioning kids and 486 00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 1: the cultural this and that, and like they're the devil. 487 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,520 Speaker 1: He's fighting the war against globalism and that looks good, 488 00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,560 Speaker 1: but he's trying to put a CBDC in as well, right, 489 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: And so back to Musk, it's like, well, he's on 490 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 1: our side, right, but he's leading us to the same 491 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,919 Speaker 1: place they want to lead us to. See Ron DeSantis. 492 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,760 Speaker 1: He seems like a champion for freedom and free speech, 493 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: and I support a lot of things that he does. 494 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: But yet in Florida, they're trying to roll out of 495 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: digital ID. So it's like they're all roads lead to 496 00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,560 Speaker 1: the same goal, right, And and I think that's the danger. 497 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 1: And to your point, like a we chat in China, 498 00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: that's like a main source of control if we have 499 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: all that in there. 500 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,159 Speaker 2: Yeah, I have. I have some uh you know, I 501 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 2: just just some fear of kind of controlled opposition. Uh 502 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,879 Speaker 2: and some of this like kind of Hegelian dialectic playing 503 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 2: out where you know, we all, you know, turn and 504 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 2: look towards you know, the thought leaders that are coming 505 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,879 Speaker 2: out after this, you know, the COVID insanity and the 506 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,800 Speaker 2: in these lockdowns, and I look at some of these 507 00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 2: these people and I and I kind of see, hey, wait, 508 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 2: we're you're kind of pushing us towards that panopticon that 509 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,800 Speaker 2: kind of led to this this disaster in the first place. 510 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 2: And I so I do have I do have some 511 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:57,640 Speaker 2: worries sometimes about that. And I think Whitney is right. 512 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,000 Speaker 2: I think she's she's a genius. She's an incredible journy. 513 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 2: Lest I look up to her. Absolutely. I read all 514 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 2: of her stuff and she does great pods, great pods, 515 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 2: and yeah, I agree with her. I do think it's 516 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,800 Speaker 2: a distraction. And uh, you know what is that final 517 00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 2: distraction you know from you know as well, it's financial 518 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 2: control and data surveillance, and you know, in many ways, 519 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,280 Speaker 2: I think we're marching ever faster to that, and even 520 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 2: sometimes I think some of the CBD talk is a 521 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 2: bit of a red herring, where it's like, you know, 522 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 2: we know Vault seven, we know what you know Julian released, 523 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 2: and we've seen that the NSA does spy on its 524 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 2: own citizens, and we do know that, you know, all 525 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,200 Speaker 2: of our data is stored and these are walled gardens 526 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,119 Speaker 2: that are not really that walled. So uh, you know, 527 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,200 Speaker 2: I can't I can't really imagine financial surveillance being much 528 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,600 Speaker 2: worse than it is, you know, knock on wood. 529 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:51,159 Speaker 1: Of course, don't say that you know a CBDC you know, 530 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,040 Speaker 1: is programmable. So surveillance is like we'll catch you and 531 00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,399 Speaker 1: we can do something, whereas I think the programble is 532 00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: like we can preemptively do it. So you're guilty, guilty 533 00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 1: until proven innocent, so to speak. You know, if you're 534 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,600 Speaker 1: just tuning in. Youwhere listening to the Markmaas Show. Of course, 535 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: we're always talking about the decentralized revolution. And I'm in 536 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:12,560 Speaker 1: studio with Mark Goodwin, the director of print editorial at 537 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: the Bitcoin Magazine. Of course, the largest gathering of bitcoiners 538 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,840 Speaker 1: will be in Miami next week at the Bitcoin Conference. 539 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 1: We'll be bringing a lot of content to you from there. 540 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 1: Check that out the Bitcoin Conference. If you're going to 541 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:25,600 Speaker 1: be there, hit me up. I'd love to hear from you. 542 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: We got more coming up. I want to dig into 543 00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,640 Speaker 1: a little bit more stuff, see if we can find 544 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 1: a couple more crumbs here. So don't go away, back 545 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,679 Speaker 1: with more in a second. We back, all right, Welcome back. 546 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: If you're just tune in, you're listening to the markmas Show. 547 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,560 Speaker 1: Of course, always talking about the decentralized revolution, and I 548 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,479 Speaker 1: am in studio with Mark Goodwin, the director of print 549 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 1: editorial at Bitcoin Magazine. If you're not subscribed, you should 550 00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 1: be checking out Bitcoin magazine dot com. Now, you know, 551 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,720 Speaker 1: just before the break, we were talking about how I 552 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:56,200 Speaker 1: was doing an interview with Whitney Web. If you're not 553 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: falling Whitney Web, you should definitely check her out. As well, 554 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:02,040 Speaker 1: but she was saying, now everything is a distraction to 555 00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 1: the ultimate goal. I live on the beach in California. 556 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,680 Speaker 1: But Buddy, about two years ago, I bought a ranch 557 00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: out in Texas and I got some cows and some goats, 558 00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:14,639 Speaker 1: and I'm kind of figuring that whole thing out. I 559 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,159 Speaker 1: don't live there full time. And I was using this 560 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 1: analogy with her where I don't know anything about animals, right, 561 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 1: not livestock. And we had these baby goats and we 562 00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 1: were trying to get them from the pen because our 563 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: baby goats were disappearing. Every night we'd wake up there gone, 564 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,080 Speaker 1: some animal, predator whatever is getting them. So that was 565 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 1: devastating for so we were trying to get the baby 566 00:28:33,119 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 1: into the horse tables at night to protect it. So 567 00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:38,760 Speaker 1: how do you get a goat, a mama goat and 568 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:40,560 Speaker 1: a baby goat out of a pen and move it, 569 00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:43,120 Speaker 1: you know, a couple of acres into a horse table? 570 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: I mean cowboys know. I don't know. I don't know 571 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: how to rope or whatever you got to do, so, 572 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 1: but I do know how to use the carrot and 573 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: a stick. So I literally got a carrot, like literally 574 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 1: a carrot, which didn't work. Really well. Then I got 575 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,560 Speaker 1: this sweet feed and I put it in a willburrow, 576 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: and then we dragged the willburrow sweet feed, and the 577 00:28:58,120 --> 00:28:59,880 Speaker 1: goat was trying to eat it, and I could just 578 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: it and then sometimes it would stop eating, it would 579 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: get distracted, and so then someone else would come behind 580 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,920 Speaker 1: it and kind of like scare it right. And so 581 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: with the carrot, we were enticing it into the into 582 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: the corral and with scaring it right, and it wasn't 583 00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: a straight line, but we got it there. And so 584 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:18,960 Speaker 1: that's kind of that's kind of where we're at with this, 585 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:21,440 Speaker 1: and so unfortunately all roads seem to be leading there. 586 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 1: I know that you're going to be hosting a panel 587 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:29,120 Speaker 1: with Whitney Web there at the Bitcoin conference, which is 588 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 1: going to be awesome. I'm looking forward to that and 589 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,640 Speaker 1: talking about journalism, I'm curious your take on that because 590 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,320 Speaker 1: I see what she's talking about reporting about. Man, you 591 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: would think in today's day and age, it has to 592 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: be pretty scary just being a journalist being reporting on 593 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,400 Speaker 1: this stuff. And what's your thoughts on that? 594 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 2: Oh? Man? Yeah, I you know, not to be you know, 595 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:49,920 Speaker 2: egotistic or anything, but I do think about it, and 596 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,040 Speaker 2: I've I've had people comment some strange things on you know, 597 00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 2: I did this piece on SBF and FTX and other 598 00:29:58,080 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 2: three letter agencies, and I talked lot about, you know, 599 00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,880 Speaker 2: a lot of these strange connections and some of these 600 00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 2: things that have happened. This stable coin programmer was drowned, 601 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 2: and right before he drowned, he tweeted that he was 602 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 2: you know, being you know, set up and blackmailed by 603 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 2: you know, Israeli and American intelligence agents. And then he 604 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,240 Speaker 2: wound up dead on the beach. And I did a 605 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:24,320 Speaker 2: story on that, and I got some weird comments from 606 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 2: people being like, hey, you're too young to kill yourself, 607 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 2: but you know, blah blah blah. And I think it's 608 00:30:29,280 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 2: in a way I kind of laugh at it because 609 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 2: it's like, who am I, you know, But in another sense, 610 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,480 Speaker 2: it's like it's very real. I mean, we see Julian 611 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 2: asan she he's in prison, he's been in prison for 612 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 2: four years and exiled for longer, and it's, uh, you know, 613 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,480 Speaker 2: we don't have a free press from the state standpoint 614 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,080 Speaker 2: as well as you know, we we know that there 615 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 2: are dangers to this, and we've seen a lot of 616 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 2: whistleblowers and journalists come out that have unfortunately, you know, 617 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 2: made a sacrifice for the truth. Did you see that 618 00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,239 Speaker 2: as a reality. 619 00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,560 Speaker 1: To sidetrack it a little bit, I'm kind of going 620 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 1: back to Schallenberger and Matt Taiebe. They started some new 621 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: organization censorship. I don't know, I have to pull it 622 00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:10,320 Speaker 1: up real quick. I'll pull it up when I'm talking. 623 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 1: But they went, you know, after the Twitter files got released, 624 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:16,680 Speaker 1: they got pulled in front of committee right in Congress, 625 00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:19,680 Speaker 1: and they were questioned like, hey, who's your source, where'd 626 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 1: you get this information? On and on and on. While 627 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: they were being interviewed, the FBI went to Matt Tayebe's 628 00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:27,720 Speaker 1: house and raided him. So then they used the long 629 00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:29,960 Speaker 1: arm of the weaponized the RS against it. But then 630 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: then MSNBC host forget her name, meddie anyway, she she 631 00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:43,000 Speaker 1: did a story that basically said she debunked the Twitter 632 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:44,800 Speaker 1: files and it was all made up and it was 633 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: all false. And then the congresswoman Sherry whatever her name was, said, Hey, 634 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 1: she said that she debunked all that. So now you've 635 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: lied to Congress. Now you're facing five years in prison. 636 00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I mean, it's a rig system, you know, 637 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,560 Speaker 2: in the same way we acknowledge the monetary system. You know, 638 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:09,480 Speaker 2: we have these very special privileged debt partners. We have 639 00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 2: these very privileged you know judicial uh, you know, systemic infrastructure. 640 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,800 Speaker 2: And you know, this is unfortunately not a new thing. 641 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 2: I mean, we've seen it time and time again. You know, 642 00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 2: the powers that be sort of abusing and waltzing through 643 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:31,680 Speaker 2: you know, these sort of court cases or or or 644 00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 2: suits where you know, citizens that are doing any sort 645 00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,280 Speaker 2: of pushing back on depression would would get hit with 646 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,000 Speaker 2: the full book. I mean, to me, it's that's so 647 00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 2: insulting and and so scary. It's it's incredibly disturbing that 648 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 2: our government would do that. Meanwhile, where you know, our 649 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 2: president is tweeting about how the leading candidate for the 650 00:32:53,160 --> 00:32:57,240 Speaker 2: Republicans is a threat to democracy, while we're jailing journalists, uh, 651 00:32:57,400 --> 00:32:59,520 Speaker 2: setting them up, baiting them to come to court, and 652 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 2: then raiding their house while they're in court, and you 653 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 2: try to set them up for perjury. I mean, that's 654 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,680 Speaker 2: not a free that's not a free press. If you 655 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,800 Speaker 2: don't have a free press, you don't have informed consent. 656 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,320 Speaker 2: If you don't have informed consent, then you can't larp 657 00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 2: about democracy. I think it's pretty simple. 658 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 659 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, to me, it's very disgusting, and you know, I 660 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:17,000 Speaker 2: wish Matt the best. I think that's that's a horrible 661 00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 2: experience to go through. 662 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: So it's Censorship Industrialcomplex dot org. So everybody listening, check 663 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: out that website, Censorship Industrialcomplex dot org and join it, 664 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:30,040 Speaker 1: join in on the fight. They say sunshine is the 665 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 1: best disinfectant, So check it out, put your name in 666 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: there in there, stay stay up to date on that. 667 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,680 Speaker 1: So going back to introduce, you know, interviewing the Whitney Web, 668 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:39,320 Speaker 1: I was going to ask you, like, what are some 669 00:33:39,360 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: of the big highlights, I mean you're kind of on 670 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: the inside working with Bitcoin magazine, Like, what are you 671 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:46,640 Speaker 1: expecting out of this event? You know, maybe to learn 672 00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: who you who you're looking forward to seeing, or big 673 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:49,960 Speaker 1: announcements or anything like that. 674 00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's just wild to think the you know, 675 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,480 Speaker 2: and again I think bitcoiners are generally anti state, which 676 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 2: I agree with. But seeing the evolution of the political 677 00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:03,960 Speaker 2: in ons in the bitcoin community. Obviously, we had Bouquet 678 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:06,600 Speaker 2: you know, announcing legal tender a couple of years ago, 679 00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 2: which was literally world changing, and now we have two 680 00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:15,640 Speaker 2: U plus you know, two or more presidential candidates that 681 00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:17,280 Speaker 2: are going to be there speaking. 682 00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: And Vivik Ramaswami. I had him on the show, yeah 683 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:23,240 Speaker 1: last week. I think it'll air this weekend. 684 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:24,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. 685 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 1: RK Junior, right, Yeah, yeah, exactly. And they're on both 686 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: sides of the aisle. 687 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:32,400 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. We have Toulcy Gabbert who's kind of right 688 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:36,440 Speaker 2: in between, you know. Uh, And I think that's really important. 689 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 2: I knew it was going to come. That's why we 690 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,279 Speaker 2: did the Orange Party issue with Buke, kind of getting 691 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 2: everyone prepared. You know, hey, it's it's as much a 692 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,319 Speaker 2: call to arms as also you know, let's make sure 693 00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 2: they're doing what they can for Bitcoin and not just 694 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 2: you know, putting a donation address on their website and 695 00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:53,640 Speaker 2: taking your money. Like, let's let's see what they have 696 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:55,600 Speaker 2: to say. And I think coming out to the Open 697 00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 2: Forum to be streamed to millions and speaking in front 698 00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,279 Speaker 2: of thousands, you know, your ideas will will either win 699 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 2: the room or not. And I'm very excited that, you know, 700 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:07,640 Speaker 2: as a as a you know, I look at our 701 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 2: platform as a platform and as a free speech platform 702 00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 2: and seeing important people coming up and wanting to spend 703 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,920 Speaker 2: their time this I believe this is rfk's first appearance 704 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,520 Speaker 2: on his campaign, which is just kind of it's just 705 00:35:20,560 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 2: a wild thing to think. So I'm really excited with that. 706 00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 2: I think that's wild and speaks a lot for where 707 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 2: the industry is going. And then of course, just anytime 708 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,440 Speaker 2: you can get in a room with bitcoiners, bitcoiners in 709 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 2: real life, it's a special place. Going to meetups has 710 00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 2: changed my life. It's there's nothing like it, and it's 711 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 2: just a big party, big celebration, and then we get 712 00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,040 Speaker 2: to just see everyone's hard work that they've done since 713 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 2: last year if you haven't seen them in the in 714 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 2: the meantime. So, yeah, lots of really interesting stuff, amazing 715 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 2: art coming out, really good panels. There's gonna be some 716 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 2: really spicy debates, some really cool firesides. Yeah, it's a 717 00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:00,959 Speaker 2: ball man Miami. It's it's it's like nothing else. 718 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's gonna be exciting. I'm going to be there. 719 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:06,839 Speaker 1: I'm speaking on two different panels on different days. I'm 720 00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,160 Speaker 1: doing a book signing there for the Uncommunist Manifesto. If 721 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: you don't have a copy of that, go get the 722 00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: Uncommunist Manifesto. I'm doing book signing. I'll be on the 723 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 1: news desk one day, lots of stuff I'm super excited about. 724 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: If you're going to be there attending, well, first of all, 725 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:21,600 Speaker 1: if you're not, you should be check it out. Go 726 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,480 Speaker 1: to Bitcoin Conference. You can get a discount with my code. 727 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:26,400 Speaker 1: Just put Mark Moss in there and you get a 728 00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,240 Speaker 1: discount if you do get a ticket with my code. 729 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:32,319 Speaker 1: I'm putting a little get together, so just hit me 730 00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: up on social media and we'll get you information on that. 731 00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:36,759 Speaker 1: But regardless, if you're going to be there, hit me up. 732 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,680 Speaker 1: I'd love to meet you. Like I said, I'll be 733 00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 1: doing that and man, that's it. You've been listening to 734 00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 1: the Mark mass Show always talking about the decentralized revolution 735 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: in studio with Mark Goodwin. Check them out on Twitter 736 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,720 Speaker 1: at Mark Goodwin Underscore. I in director of print editorial 737 00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:53,960 Speaker 1: at Bitcoin Magazine. Definitely get a subscription to that Bitcoin 738 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:56,800 Speaker 1: magazine dot com. Check us out next week at the 739 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,560 Speaker 1: Bitcoin Conference and that's what we got. Thanks so much 740 00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:00,360 Speaker 1: for listening there.