Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News.
Speaker 2: Hi everyone, welcome back to the Deal.
Speaker 3: I'm your host, Jason Kelly alongside my partner Alex Rodriguez.
Speaker 3: All Right, Alex, I feel like, you know, it's been
Speaker 3: seventy two hours since I've seen It's like the longest
Speaker 3: we've gone in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2: Like, what have you been up to? What's going on?
Speaker 1: My preference, Jason, if I saw you daily? We text
Speaker 1: daily anyways, exactly.
Speaker 3: We know exactly what's going on in each other's lives
Speaker 3: and in the sports world. So we were at Sloan
Speaker 3: MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference last week, a really, really
Speaker 3: fun conversation with David Blitzer. I'm so excited for people
Speaker 3: to hear that later on this spring, and we talk
Speaker 3: about one of One. This is a guy who we
Speaker 3: could have gone for three hours, don't you think we
Speaker 3: could have?
Speaker 1: And I mean he is one of one. That's a
Speaker 1: perfect way to describe him. I mean to think he's
Speaker 1: been at Blackstone since nineteen ninety one and now he's
Speaker 1: making a paradigm shift to run in his family office.
Speaker 1: And what I think our viewers would really find interesting
Speaker 1: in our listeners is he has an extraordinary amount of
Speaker 1: equity across every sports platform and how he uses a
Speaker 1: data all the way from Little League as being a
Speaker 1: partner to cal Ripken to what he does with his
Speaker 1: guardians and everything else in between is a fascinating conversation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so really look forward to everyone getting to hear that.
Speaker 3: So here's one interesting thing. I actually meant to text
Speaker 3: you this. So I was texting with Jess Gallman, you know,
Speaker 3: who's sort of the convener along with Daryl moriy of Sloan,
Speaker 3: and I was saying to her, I feel like one
Speaker 3: of the measures and this is a snooty measure, so
Speaker 3: like fair warning, but one of the measures of a
Speaker 3: really great conference is like the power of.
Speaker 2: The green room.
Speaker 3: And man, when we walked in there and saw all
Speaker 3: the other folks who were going to be on stage
Speaker 3: had been on the stage. You know, we saw triple ages.
Speaker 3: We were like walking through the there were all these
Speaker 3: NWSL owners, there were Celtics executives. Like interestingly enough, it
Speaker 3: was a lot of not surprisingly our deal universe. Kitlin Goo,
Speaker 3: who is a guest on the show, she was actually
Speaker 3: on a panel with the guy who's gonna be our
Speaker 3: guest today Mike McCary from TGL, and they were talking
Speaker 3: about emerging league. So it really was a who's who
Speaker 3: and so excited to dig into that. In the meantime,
Speaker 3: there's been a lot happening in the sports media world.
Speaker 2: Our guy, Stephen A.
Speaker 3: Smith, he told us last year when he taped this
Speaker 3: show he was gonna get paid, Alex, he got paid.
Speaker 4: He got paid, and he's worth every every dollar.
Speaker 1: Look, the head of ESPN, Jimmy Potero, loves him, and
Speaker 1: for good reason. I mean, he is very, very compelling.
Speaker 1: Love him or hate him, you're going to tune in.
Speaker 1: He has very strong opinions. He's well informed. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: my favorite thing is, I mean when he walks into arenas,
Speaker 1: it's like Michael Jordan, I mean, is a trot.
Speaker 4: He's a phenomenal talent.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So he's going to get one hundred million dollars about
Speaker 3: twenty million a year. And what I found so interesting
Speaker 3: is I was sort of reading about it talking to people.
Speaker 3: He told us when he sat down with us that
Speaker 3: first of all, he was chasing the bag. He's unapologetic
Speaker 3: about that, but also he wanted more, say, more flexibility,
Speaker 3: more ownership and and to your point about the influence
Speaker 3: he look, he went viral last week over a confrontation
Speaker 3: of sorts he had with Lebron James. So you know,
Speaker 3: Lebron comes over to him in the middle of the game.
Speaker 3: This is what I love about steven A. Right, steven
Speaker 3: A is sitting courtside, He's sitting in between Larry David
Speaker 3: and Ari Emmanuel like talk about like a power move,
Speaker 3: just a power a seat, and Lebron comes over and
Speaker 3: gets in his face about what steven A has been
Speaker 3: saying about Bronnie, and steven A then turns it, as
Speaker 3: he does, into a viral moment. The entire morning the
Speaker 3: next morning on Big Take and on the steven A
Speaker 3: Smith Show was all about that encounter.
Speaker 2: It's amazing. His content this generation is incredible.
Speaker 1: It is a gigantic win for steven A. Smith, is
Speaker 1: an enormous win for ESPN. But this is the deal,
Speaker 1: and I do want to just kind of go back
Speaker 1: and double tap a little bit on the deal because
Speaker 1: if you think about it, it took probably two months
Speaker 1: for steven A Smith and ESPN to agree to one hundred.
Speaker 1: It took about twelve months to get all the fine
Speaker 1: print on what he can do what he can't do.
Speaker 4: Can he do on YouTube? Can he go into politics?
Speaker 1: It just tells you deals have never been more complicated,
Speaker 1: and this is a perfect example of that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up, because what
Speaker 3: the complexity speaks to is how multi platform you have.
Speaker 2: To be if you're going to be successful.
Speaker 3: Listen, I'm like going down the self referential rabbit hole here,
Speaker 3: but it's like, think about this show. You can listen
Speaker 3: to it, you can watch it on YouTube, you can
Speaker 3: watch it on blueberg dot com, you can read about
Speaker 3: it all these you see it on social We have
Speaker 3: to think that way. Steven A has been thinking that
Speaker 3: way for a long time, and he is He is
Speaker 3: a business man for sure.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 3: Speaking of businessmen, another guy familiar to our listeners, Dave Roberts,
Speaker 3: probably not your favorite guy back in the mall because
Speaker 3: he beatured New York Yankees to win the World Series.
Speaker 3: Of course, the manager of the Dodger, as Dave Roberts is,
Speaker 3: he's getting paid as well, eight point one million dollars
Speaker 3: a year a four year extension he signs. Tell me
Speaker 3: about the significance of that deal from your perspective.
Speaker 1: Well, I think Jason the power shift in sports, but
Speaker 1: I would say baseball is probably most synonymous with analytics,
Speaker 1: and they were the you know, going back to you know,
Speaker 1: Brad Pitt and Billy Bean, right and moneyball. If you
Speaker 1: go back to those days, I think Sandy Alderson who
Speaker 1: was a mentor to Billy Bean. He had a guy
Speaker 1: by the name of Art Howe, and basically the front
Speaker 1: office message started back then a couple of decades ago,
Speaker 1: which was saying, we the front office, have all the power.
Speaker 1: We were hired to be the voice of the team.
Speaker 1: Will give you a seat at the table. But as
Speaker 1: long as you run the team the way we want
Speaker 1: to run it, analytics are and D departments.
Speaker 4: You are are a guy. And the days of.
Speaker 1: Loopanella Buck Show, Walter Joe Torre being in charge, those
Speaker 1: days are over. And I think one of the things
Speaker 1: that Dave Roberts have done has done a beautiful job
Speaker 1: with is check the ego the door, both his experience
Speaker 1: and his playing days and really be a collaborator and
Speaker 1: really the lead. But let's make no mistake the front
Speaker 1: officer running this team. One great example of the shift
Speaker 1: in power I remember in six o seven when Joe
Speaker 1: Tory was the manager and my manager with the Yankees.
Speaker 1: He was making around six or seven million dollars at
Speaker 1: that time. Brian Cashman, the GM was making a million dollars.
Speaker 1: Today those numbers have completely reversed. Now you have a
Speaker 1: guy like Andrew Friedman, the head of baseball for the Dodgers,
Speaker 1: making ten million, and before this deal, Dave Roberts was
Speaker 1: making closer to two to four million. Yeah, and that
Speaker 1: tells you where things are, or as where the power lies.
Speaker 5: Wow.
Speaker 2: So I have to say you surprised me there.
Speaker 3: I did not think that's what you were going to say,
Speaker 3: because I see this paycheck and I'm like, wow. You know,
Speaker 3: he and Craig Counsel are sort of like more or
Speaker 3: less even in terms of being the highest paid managers
Speaker 3: Craig Council of course of the Cubs. That's fascinating because
Speaker 3: I remember watching I mean, I read the book Moneyball,
Speaker 3: as I think anybody who cares about sports either has
Speaker 3: or should Michael Lewis's phenomenal, phenomenal book. And then the
Speaker 3: movie you mentioned, Brad Pitt, you know you remember so vividly.
Speaker 3: Art how was played by the late Philip Seymour Hoffman
Speaker 3: to great effect.
Speaker 2: And he was I mean his legs.
Speaker 3: Were cut off underneath him right by Billy Bean because
Speaker 3: Billy Bean was dictating, here's who we're gonna play, Here's
Speaker 3: who we're gonna get rid of. Made some very dramatic decisions.
Speaker 3: So that is continuing. That's really fascinating. So is that
Speaker 3: good for baseball?
Speaker 4: I think it's good.
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, like most things, Jason, the
Speaker 1: pendulum go THO sometimes overcorrects way too much to the right.
Speaker 1: And I think when you land, whether you want to
Speaker 1: land at fifty fifty or sixty seventy or seventy thirty,
Speaker 1: whatever you want to do, it can be one hundred
Speaker 1: percent to zero. Yeah, and you still have to have
Speaker 1: experience in baseball people. And that's why I think today's
Speaker 1: modern day manager, the perfect person for that is a
Speaker 1: guy like Dave Roberts or Aaron Boone with the Yankees
Speaker 1: or Greg Council with the Cubs. You have to check
Speaker 1: your ego to door and you have to be you're
Speaker 1: running these franchises a little bit more like a board.
Speaker 1: And ironically this might be surprising to our listeners, Jason,
Speaker 1: that the most powerful person in the organization where the
Speaker 1: buck stops. It's really not with the manager, and is
Speaker 1: not with the general manager, is with the head of analytics.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Again, a dramatic shift. And you've obviously seen it. I
Speaker 3: mean you see it. I would imagine in basketball too.
Speaker 3: You know, you and I run across you more than
Speaker 3: I in a more intimate way in your travels with
Speaker 3: some very powerful people, you know, inside basketball teams, football teams, etc.
Speaker 3: Who are the men and women who have the numbers?
Speaker 3: And if you have the numbers, I mean, listen, that's
Speaker 3: the whole basis. Going back to where we started, we
Speaker 3: were hundreds of people at the at Sloan, at the
Speaker 3: business school at MIT.
Speaker 2: MIT is all about numbers.
Speaker 3: And I mean the analysis that they're doing both on
Speaker 3: the business side and on the field, on the pitch,
Speaker 3: on the court. We've never seen anything like this before.
Speaker 3: And you know, we were talking to Blitz, David Blitzer again.
Speaker 3: He was talking about how much he uses analytics across
Speaker 3: his portfolio, and he feels like he's just getting started.
Speaker 3: So you do wonder as the pendulum swings back and
Speaker 3: forth where all of these sports land. And I would
Speaker 3: imagine and here I'm leaning on your expertise across multiple
Speaker 3: professional sports. I guess the answer is different depending on
Speaker 3: the team and depending on the sport.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Look, I think one of the things that analytics you've
Speaker 1: got to be cautious for, and this kind of a
Speaker 1: cautious tale, is that sometimes analytics does not see what
Speaker 1: a guy like our former guest Johnny Damon brings to
Speaker 1: the tape. Yeah, and his confidence and his swagger and
Speaker 1: his ability to make the clubhouse mood more fun and
Speaker 1: less especially in a place like New York where you
Speaker 1: want to lower.
Speaker 4: The temperature, you want to lower the pressure.
Speaker 1: Guys like John Olerude, my former teammate, Johnny Damon, they
Speaker 1: may not be like the greatest players of all time
Speaker 1: when it comes to analytics, but when you combined what
Speaker 1: they bring to the clubhouse plus their analytics, the world champions.
Speaker 4: And that's exactly what we did in New York with
Speaker 4: Johnny Damon.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great example.
Speaker 3: And if folks did not see that one on your feet,
Speaker 3: you should definitely go back listen to Johnny Damon. I mean, man,
Speaker 3: talk about one of one. If you made that guy up,
Speaker 3: no one would believe you. He's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: We even had our first political reference, which we weren't expecting.
Speaker 2: We certainly need, we certainly did.
Speaker 3: I guess in retrospect, if anyone was going to do it,
Speaker 3: it was going to be him.
Speaker 2: So check that out.
Speaker 3: And also, if you're going back to the feed, check
Speaker 3: out our conversation with Steven A. Smith from last year,
Speaker 3: because he he lays it all out. He talks about
Speaker 3: the foundation of his argument that ultimately led to this
Speaker 3: big deal. And I went back and listened to some
Speaker 3: of it, and you knew exactly where he was going,
Speaker 3: and you knew that if he didn't get this number,
Speaker 3: and he essentially said it to us, if he didn't
Speaker 3: get the number that he wanted, which I think this
Speaker 3: was it, he was gone.
Speaker 2: And I think ESPN knew that all right.
Speaker 3: Coming up on the deal, the CEO and the co
Speaker 3: founder of Tomorrow's Sports. That's Mike McCarley. You know him
Speaker 3: best as the co creator of TGL. You've seen it
Speaker 3: on TV, maybe you've seen it live. We're going to
Speaker 3: chop it up with him and get into the business
Speaker 3: of golf. Stay tuned, all right, Well, joining us now
Speaker 3: is Mike McCarley. He's the founder and CEO of Tomorrow's
Speaker 3: Sports founded back in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 2: The project that you're probably.
Speaker 3: Most familiar with that falls under their auspices is Tomorrow
Speaker 3: Golf League, also known as TGL. It's been I would say,
Speaker 3: Alex kind of inescapable in the best possible way. We
Speaker 3: see people talk about it, we hear people talk about
Speaker 3: in our world. I feel like the cap table is
Speaker 3: like a list of either former or dream guests on
Speaker 3: the deal. And so we're really happy, Mike to have
Speaker 3: you with us. So for those who don't know, break
Speaker 3: it down for us. What is TGL and how how
Speaker 3: do you describe it in your elevator pitch.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's very simplest forms. It's a platform for primetime
Speaker 6: team golf. So can we take some of the best
Speaker 6: elements of golf that resonate with a modern media consumer,
Speaker 6: you know, modern fan, and try to put that into
Speaker 6: a format that will really resonate in today's age.
Speaker 5: And what does that mean?
Speaker 6: It means primetime live, two teams enter, one team leaves
Speaker 6: two hours later, a winner, lots of data, lots of moments,
Speaker 6: global stars. And what we found was the technology allowed
Speaker 6: us to do that. So we weren't setting out to
Speaker 6: create this, you know, super tech forward Golf League. We
Speaker 6: were setting out to create a short form version of
Speaker 6: golf that would appeal to younger fans that we could
Speaker 6: put it in in prime time in a team format
Speaker 6: that we thought would resonate in this day and age.
Speaker 6: And it happens to be true now that we're we're
Speaker 6: three months or so into the season.
Speaker 1: So, Mike, you served as NBC you know, sports president,
Speaker 1: you know, for golf and other departments. At what point
Speaker 1: are you just sitting back in your family on a
Speaker 1: Saturday and saying, I have an idea.
Speaker 4: How do you even come up with such a great idea?
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's over time, I would say.
Speaker 6: You know, one of my first jobs at NBC was
Speaker 6: working with a lot of the different Olympics sports and
Speaker 6: marketing the Olympics.
Speaker 5: And in a lot of.
Speaker 6: Ways, what you do in between the Olympics is those
Speaker 6: sports wilme to you and ask you, you know, how
Speaker 6: can we be better on television if you look at
Speaker 6: sports through that lens, you know, how can a certain
Speaker 6: sport perform better on television? In a lot of ways,
Speaker 6: It's spent the last of the quarter century or so,
Speaker 6: I was at NBC sports. The last ten or so
Speaker 6: years I was dedicated to golf. So if you're looking
Speaker 6: at a sport every single day through that lens, you
Speaker 6: start to notice a handful of things. When the US
Speaker 6: Open goes to the West Coast and the US Opens
Speaker 6: in primetime on the East, ratings pop. We see it
Speaker 6: in the Ryder Cup every few years, when the guys
Speaker 6: are in a team environment and they can feed off
Speaker 6: that energy and they can feed off of each other.
Speaker 5: Some real moments are created from that.
Speaker 6: So if we kind of take the elements of prime
Speaker 6: time the elements of team golf and put them together,
Speaker 6: how do we create more of those moments in a
Speaker 6: condensed fashion?
Speaker 5: And then I think the.
Speaker 6: Other piece of it, Alex is just watching what's happened
Speaker 6: in technology general throughout sports. If you can imagine, you know,
Speaker 6: watching a football game now without the first and ten line,
Speaker 6: and how hard it would be to kind of explain
Speaker 6: to a fan who's just dropping into the sport for
Speaker 6: the first time what it is that they're trying to do.
Speaker 5: It really helps demystify the.
Speaker 6: Sport of football, much in the same way the tracer
Speaker 6: line on the golf ball really helps to demystify what
Speaker 6: some of the best players in the world are trying
Speaker 6: to do when they're out on a golf course. So
Speaker 6: all of those things coming together, you know, it just
Speaker 6: kind of shows you what is possible and when you
Speaker 6: when you put it all into one piece, what comes
Speaker 6: out is something that looks a lot like TJL And so.
Speaker 3: How do I mean we're getting into the nitty gritty
Speaker 3: of the deal. It's it's called the deal. Uh So
Speaker 3: this stands to reason, like, how do you go about,
Speaker 3: like you put together a pitch deck, Like, what's what's
Speaker 3: the process for you to sort of bring this to life?
Speaker 2: What are the first early steps?
Speaker 3: Because I am anticipating already what Alex's next question is
Speaker 3: going to be, and it has to do the certain
Speaker 3: most famous golfer in the world.
Speaker 5: But that was a very important meeting.
Speaker 6: We'll just say that leading up to it, you're noticing
Speaker 6: all these things that I just described, and you start
Speaker 6: to form a thesis and then you start talking to people,
Speaker 6: and you know, it was very close to Tiger and
Speaker 6: his team and very close to Rory and his team,
Speaker 6: just being so involved in golf with NBC and Golf Channel,
Speaker 6: and then the pandemic hits, and you're kind of thinking, Okay,
Speaker 6: if this is going to work, now's the time to
Speaker 6: make this work. Because technology and screens, you know, look
Speaker 6: at what we're doing right now, really started to take
Speaker 6: over and just have a much more important role in
Speaker 6: our life. And then you start to see, you know
Speaker 6: a lot of the tailwinds that are happening in sports
Speaker 6: with data coming in, you know, more and more media
Speaker 6: opportunities from for a live standpoint, and how that helps.
Speaker 6: Sports are really trying to keep the traditional media bundle together.
Speaker 6: So I middle a pandemic for kids homeschooled at home,
Speaker 6: I had my full time job, and my wife and
Speaker 6: I started kind of working on what this could look like.
Speaker 6: And then had a few conversations with Rob McNamara, who's
Speaker 6: on really close to Tiger on his team, few.
Speaker 5: Conversations with Ryan Dodters.
Speaker 6: Who's the CEO of Full Swing Technology Company, and a
Speaker 6: handful of others, and just continue to ask the question,
Speaker 6: you know, is this possible?
Speaker 5: Can you do this?
Speaker 7: And then eventually went and sat down with Tiger, and
Speaker 7: ninety minutes later he just looked at me and said, look,
Speaker 7: if I commit to doing this, will you commit to
Speaker 7: doing it too, and at that point I knew we
Speaker 7: were kind of off and running.
Speaker 4: Well, that's a great segue, thank you, Jason.
Speaker 1: So, Mike, I go back with Tiger when I first
Speaker 1: entered the major leagues at eighteen.
Speaker 4: We're about the same age.
Speaker 1: He was a freshman at Stanford, and that was when
Speaker 1: I first got to know him a little bit. You know,
Speaker 1: one of the things about Tiger, if you know him,
Speaker 1: he has one buffet type discipline, meaning that he says
Speaker 1: no to like ninety nine out of one hundred things.
Speaker 1: How the hell did you get him to say yes?
Speaker 1: So I'm Tiger, I'm a terrible golfer, but I would
Speaker 1: like to pretend I can be a poser. Pitch to
Speaker 1: Jason and I how you got him to say yes?
Speaker 6: We'll build a venue within thirty minutes of your house.
Speaker 6: You drive over, you play for two hours, you drive home.
Speaker 6: You keep your same schedule on the PGA tour, you
Speaker 6: keep your same prep for the Masters. You don't ever
Speaker 6: get an airplane, don't. You don't stay in a hotel.
Speaker 6: And if we do this right, they'll be you know,
Speaker 6: real money, like you would make if you're flying all
Speaker 6: over the world. You know, kind of wrecking a week
Speaker 6: or wrecking your body. And the reality is, you know,
Speaker 6: these guys you know for a very long time golfers.
Speaker 6: You know it's a global game and they travel all
Speaker 6: around the world to play, and I think they always will.
Speaker 6: But you get to a certain place in your career
Speaker 6: and frankly in your life where you're a father, you've
Speaker 6: got kids, you've got soccer games.
Speaker 5: Got other things.
Speaker 6: If you can have a way to monetize your time
Speaker 6: and create something that frankly, can be a legacy business
Speaker 6: for you for decades ahead, it's.
Speaker 5: Going to get your attention. And I think it was.
Speaker 6: It was a combination of a lot of things, but
Speaker 6: timing was a really important part of it.
Speaker 2: And so after that conversation, right hold on, Jason.
Speaker 5: So so, Alex, how's that pitch? If someone will come, well.
Speaker 4: It's great. I didn't want to hug the ball.
Speaker 1: But my second question was going to be a follow up,
Speaker 1: was why didn't you come to Jason and me that's
Speaker 1: the same.
Speaker 5: I haven't seen your golf games. I everyone has seen
Speaker 5: Tiger's golf games. Will say that you only got a
Speaker 5: hardball that flying an hour.
Speaker 4: That's fair.
Speaker 3: Listen, I can't speak for Alex, but if you had
Speaker 3: seen my golf game, that'd be a hard pass from
Speaker 3: your perspective. But I'm getting better, I'm trying. I'm trying
Speaker 3: my best, and so I would love to be in
Speaker 3: your head for that minute that you walk out of
Speaker 3: the meeting with Tiger. He's turned it around on you
Speaker 3: right and basically been like, if I'm doing this, you're
Speaker 3: doing it. What's the next step, what's the feeling? What's
Speaker 3: the first phone call you make at that point?
Speaker 1: And Mike before you answered that as you're walking in,
Speaker 1: I want to just piggyback up my partner, Jason handicap
Speaker 1: it are you thinking maybe fifty to fifty?
Speaker 4: Are you nervous? Are you excited? Are you just like
Speaker 4: there's a walk in the park.
Speaker 6: No, it wasn't a walk in the park, but I
Speaker 6: think my chances were pretty good, just because you know,
Speaker 6: we had done a lot of the pre work in advance.
Speaker 5: I mean, Tiger's got a great team around him.
Speaker 6: Rob McNamara, Chris Hubman, Mark Steinberg is a longtime agent, sure,
Speaker 6: and we had all been involved in other projects together
Speaker 6: and had spent some time on this before. So I think,
Speaker 6: you know, The next step was one me saying yes
Speaker 6: to that question and two calling Rory, and then within
Speaker 6: a couple of weeks, Rory was on board.
Speaker 5: And the plan all along was that.
Speaker 6: The three of us would go to the PGA to
Speaker 6: and bringing the PGA Tour on board as a partner.
Speaker 6: And you know, and that took after that first meeting,
Speaker 6: that took you a couple of weeks to kind of
Speaker 6: get Rory on board. It was a few phone calls.
Speaker 6: Rory and I had been involved in a few projects together,
Speaker 6: so and he already had this thesis about embracing technology
Speaker 6: to really help bring the sport of golf into the
Speaker 6: future and kind of this digital future for golf, and
Speaker 6: much like Tiger has a thesis that was aligned with
Speaker 6: getting more kids and families involved with sports, especially especially golf.
Speaker 6: So the two of them kind of saw what the
Speaker 6: future for the sport could look like. I was just
Speaker 6: coming in with the idea and frankly a little bit
Speaker 6: of the background and the track record to be able
Speaker 6: to pull something like this together. And getting the PGA
Speaker 6: Tour was a big piece of it, because we always
Speaker 6: wanted to do something that was going to be complimentary
Speaker 6: from a schedule standpoint for the players, so they could
Speaker 6: continue to play the schedule that they preferred to play,
Speaker 6: keep their existing sponsors, all of those sorts of things,
Speaker 6: and just making this additive to this existing ecosystem that's
Speaker 6: already really good for the players on PGA Tour.
Speaker 3: Talk us through building out the rest of the cap table,
Speaker 3: because you know, I sort of somewhat globally said it
Speaker 3: at the top, but it's like, these are the people
Speaker 3: that Alex and I sort of know admire. We think
Speaker 3: about these as the smartest investors, the savvyest athlete investors
Speaker 3: who are out there. You know, you're talking about Serena
Speaker 3: and Steph Curry, Fenway Sports Group, Stevie Cohen, David Blitzer,
Speaker 3: Mark Lazri. I mean, I could go on and on
Speaker 3: and on, Michael Strahan, Jeter, Eli Manning, Like, what's the
Speaker 3: process through which you do that, because people who are listening,
Speaker 3: who are entrepreneurial in thinking about an idea, are like
Speaker 3: salivating at the prospect of having that sort of cap table.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I think it's a good question, and it's one that
Speaker 6: we get asked a lot, But I mean, I think
Speaker 6: it's the very basic part of it is you've got
Speaker 6: a track record and a history in the sports business.
Speaker 5: We all know. It's a small world that we live in,
Speaker 5: you know.
Speaker 6: I like to think that through the years, I've developed
Speaker 6: a nice network of you know, strong relationships, and you
Speaker 6: try to treat people well, you know, all all the
Speaker 6: way around. So you start making a few phone calls.
Speaker 6: One of my first phone calls was Dick Eversall, who's
Speaker 6: a mentor of mine, worked very close to together for
Speaker 6: a long time.
Speaker 3: Dick Eversolt legendary like TV producer ran NBC Sports, you know,
Speaker 3: essentially invented the modern Olympics coverage. I think it's fair
Speaker 3: to say ran SNL for it. I mean, by the
Speaker 3: way his book, Alex, you should listen to it at
Speaker 3: some point. It's an unbelievable memoir of like sports and entertainment.
Speaker 2: Sorry, Mike, but go ahead.
Speaker 5: So so, yeah, that's a good point.
Speaker 6: Jason so called Dick because I kind of wanted him
Speaker 6: to talk me out of it. I mean, I got
Speaker 6: four little kids at home, you know, very good career,
Speaker 6: and he didn't. He said, I think it's a great concept,
Speaker 6: and if you can do you know, X, Y and
Speaker 6: Z things and get those done, you know, how big
Speaker 6: of a check can I write into this business to
Speaker 6: be the first investor, and it just kind of took
Speaker 6: off from there and we started. I mean, you guys know,
Speaker 6: it's like you introduce a concept to somebody and if
Speaker 6: they like it, they say, I'd like to introduce this
Speaker 6: to my friend so and so, And it just so
Speaker 6: happens that we're working in a group of people where
Speaker 6: the friends that they have or have, you know, all
Speaker 6: the capabilities and the wherewithal to be able to support
Speaker 6: something like this and frankly help make it fly.
Speaker 5: I mean the team owners that.
Speaker 6: We brought on board for TGL having Arthur Blank, having
Speaker 6: Alexis and Serena, having Fenway Sports Group, having Mark Lazar,
Speaker 6: having Steve Cohen. I mean, it's it's been a really
Speaker 6: successful group of people to put together and to kind
Speaker 6: of be advisors as you're building a business for the
Speaker 6: first time. And that's not to mention Tiger and David
Speaker 6: Blitzer teamed up to own the Jupiter team as well,
Speaker 6: So you get six people around the table that can
Speaker 6: help you build something. And for the teams that have
Speaker 6: really a portfolio that they can put this team in
Speaker 6: the middle of. From an operational standpoint really help them
Speaker 6: move very quickly and accelerate their growth very fast.
Speaker 1: On the other side of that, just one question is
Speaker 1: you know, with these deep pockets also come fairly large egos,
Speaker 1: strong opinions, a lot of thoughts.
Speaker 4: How do you manage that?
Speaker 1: And has your experience being a television executive can I
Speaker 1: help you kind of bring this all together?
Speaker 6: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I would say that was very helpful.
Speaker 6: I think it was also helpful having Tiger and Rory
Speaker 6: and the PGA Tour on as partners, because no one's
Speaker 6: going to question the golf at cum In, right, so
Speaker 6: the core sport of you know, our first project in TGL,
Speaker 6: no one's questioning why are you doing this? Why are
Speaker 6: you doing that? We would have discussions about it internally,
Speaker 6: but at the end of the day, you know, Tiger
Speaker 6: and Rory kind of bless a competitive format, and you know,
Speaker 6: we've we've had some things that we've changed along the
Speaker 6: way from the original plan, and a lot of times,
Speaker 6: you know, Tiger Rory have said, I like this idea,
Speaker 6: and we will go test it and come back and
Speaker 6: say here's what the testing tells us, and then you
Speaker 6: kind of make a decision to move forward.
Speaker 5: But I think, you know, managing egos.
Speaker 6: I think you have a general sense of you know,
Speaker 6: and reputation of who's going to be helpful, especially in
Speaker 6: the business at this stage, which is really important. The
Speaker 6: people who had been involved in startups before were I
Speaker 6: mean Arthur Blank's history with Home Depot alone, just understanding
Speaker 6: what it takes to pull something like this off and
Speaker 6: having lived it himself really helpful. I like to think
Speaker 6: that because of the cap table we've put together, we're
Speaker 6: one or two phone calls away from you know, getting
Speaker 6: the best advice on almost anything in the world.
Speaker 3: So this is not Mike not been without setbacks. I mean,
Speaker 3: obviously the arena itself essentially Malfa.
Speaker 2: I don't know, how would you describe it, lost the roof.
Speaker 5: On the building.
Speaker 6: I mean a lot like what happened in Tampa this
Speaker 6: past year from the hurricane. Yeah, those visuals were similar.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So that sets you back a full year, right
Speaker 3: in terms of launch. So what is that moment like
Speaker 3: and how how did you have to adjust at that
Speaker 3: point in terms of the modeling, in terms of you know,
Speaker 3: the TV content, like what's involved when you have to
Speaker 3: make that sort of decision to delay.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a very tough decision one.
Speaker 6: And I knew pretty quickly after we knew kind of
Speaker 6: the timeline.
Speaker 5: That we were looking at.
Speaker 6: I got there that later that day on site, and
Speaker 6: the team, the construction team, you know, I'd already put
Speaker 6: together a bunch of plans on how they could get
Speaker 6: something ready to go for that season, and I just
Speaker 6: knew that it was going to be rushed and it
Speaker 6: wasn't the right right idea. And I knew at that
Speaker 6: point my job was more consensus.
Speaker 5: Builder than anything else.
Speaker 6: I mean amongst investors, amongst team owners, amongst sponsors. We
Speaker 6: had so FI on board at that point, we had
Speaker 6: ESPN on board as a media partner, and the team
Speaker 6: owners pretty much all told me, you know, a bunch
Speaker 6: of one on one calls like, hey, we trust you,
Speaker 6: you know, come back to us with what you think
Speaker 6: is the best thing to do. I had a conversation
Speaker 6: with Anthony Notados, the CEO of so Far, and he said, look,
Speaker 6: I believed in this a year ago when you first
Speaker 6: told me about it. I'm going to believe in it
Speaker 6: more a year from now. So don't worry. We're going
Speaker 6: to be fine. And then ESPN Roz Durant. To her credit,
Speaker 6: she flew down Florida. We set at a coffee shop
Speaker 6: for two hours on a Saturday morning, and we walked
Speaker 6: through all the different scheduling opportunities and at the end
Speaker 6: of it, we knew, you know, part of the business
Speaker 6: when I started the scheduling piece of this was don't
Speaker 6: compete with football. Have football as something that's going to
Speaker 6: be a promotional vehicle for you. So after about an hour,
Speaker 6: we pretty much had decided the schedule for twenty twenty
Speaker 6: five should look almost exactly what the schedule for twenty
Speaker 6: twenty four was. And then the last hour we kind
Speaker 6: of just caught up on, you know, all the personal
Speaker 6: things and frankly, she just want to know how I
Speaker 6: was doing because it was a very stressful time, which
Speaker 6: those moments with a partner you remember forever, those people
Speaker 6: that were with you and kind of doing the right
Speaker 6: thing when you're in a tough spot. You always take
Speaker 6: that with you and you'll never forget it. It's a
Speaker 6: really important to note though. At that same time, what
Speaker 6: happened is the college football Playoff expanded, so the ESPN
Speaker 6: schedule changed, so we did have a few wrinkles, you know,
Speaker 6: even after we had decided generally what we should do,
Speaker 6: then there was a lot more work to be done
Speaker 6: because that was still that expansion was still to take place.
Speaker 3: Was there a moment or more than a moment when
Speaker 3: that accident happened, that you're like, Okay, I just this
Speaker 3: may not work like that, this may not get off
Speaker 3: the ground.
Speaker 5: Maybe I'm foolishly optimistic.
Speaker 6: But over five years of kind of nothing but building
Speaker 6: this business full time, those thoughts never really crept into
Speaker 6: my mind.
Speaker 5: I mean they were always for me. There was just
Speaker 5: there was no plan B. And if anyone seemed.
Speaker 6: To think they had a doubt that this wouldn't work,
Speaker 6: I just kind of moved on.
Speaker 5: You know, if an investor, a.
Speaker 6: Partner where everything was on zoom, because you were still
Speaker 6: in the early days of the pandemic, but if it
Speaker 6: just seemed like they didn't get it, I couldn't get
Speaker 6: off the phone fast enough because I could get waste my.
Speaker 5: Time and get with someone who really believed in it.
Speaker 1: Of course, of course, one thought, you know, mentors have
Speaker 1: been such an incredibly important part of my business career
Speaker 1: and baseball career. I'm wondering, you know, you're a young
Speaker 1: guy you're very experienced obviously, what a competitive advantage to
Speaker 1: be on television with such a great company at Comcast
Speaker 1: NBC for so many years. But wondering about more mentors
Speaker 1: that helped influence your career and really have helped you
Speaker 1: think about this project in particular.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it starts with Dick Iversol for sure.
Speaker 6: And then I spent really good time with Jim McKay
Speaker 6: when he came back and did his last Olympics in
Speaker 6: Salt Lake in two thousand and two. Then I spent
Speaker 6: a lot of time with John Madden when he came
Speaker 6: over to NBC for Sunday Night Football. And you know,
Speaker 6: there was a core group of us who just had
Speaker 6: a blast building those early days of Sunday Night Football
Speaker 6: with Dick and John and Al and Frekidelli and Drew Usakoff.
Speaker 6: And I would say when I came down move moved
Speaker 6: from New York to Florida, Arnold Palmer had founded the
Speaker 6: Off Channel in the early nineties and was still here
Speaker 6: and wasn't really involved with the business that much, but
Speaker 6: I went to go see him and really just kind
Speaker 6: of leaned on him as from a history standpoint of
Speaker 6: not just that business, but golf on television, which if
Speaker 6: he kind of traced back the history of golf and
Speaker 6: the popularity of golf on TV, it was color television,
Speaker 6: the Masters and Arnold Palmer in the early nineteen sixties
Speaker 6: that really.
Speaker 5: Made golf on TV fly.
Speaker 6: And then so you think about thirty years later, the
Speaker 6: guy gets on the front end of cable television and
Speaker 6: creates a twenty four to seven cable channel.
Speaker 5: Dedicated to the game, and he and I had long.
Speaker 6: Conversations about the future of golf global, US centric. He
Speaker 6: always told me, he goes, always remember and don't let
Speaker 6: everyone forget that television needs to be at the center
Speaker 6: of every decision on the future of the business of
Speaker 6: the sport.
Speaker 5: Wow, because it was so important in the in the
Speaker 5: building of it over time.
Speaker 6: So look, I was very fortunate to be able to
Speaker 6: kind of have these people placed in my life, and
Speaker 6: I think at a time in which they were willing
Speaker 6: to be patient and give back, which meant, you know,
Speaker 6: they were kind of on the older side of their
Speaker 6: careers and they were in a reflective mindset and wanted
Speaker 6: to share, which I was just smart enough to just
Speaker 6: kind of shut up and listen as much as I
Speaker 6: possibly could to learn from them.
Speaker 4: Mike.
Speaker 8: I love the great question, though, Alex, because I look,
Speaker 8: I think back on that I made decisions based on
Speaker 8: a history and a career of things that I've experienced,
Speaker 8: and a lot of times you don't really know why
Speaker 8: you made the decision, but you think about it later
Speaker 8: and you say, Okay, I made that decision because of X,
Speaker 8: Y and Z things that I know I saw.
Speaker 5: In my past.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Look, I'm obsessed with this because I didn't have the
Speaker 1: regular you know, go through college. But I guess for
Speaker 1: Jason and I and our listeners, can you maybe share
Speaker 1: one or two nuggets for each one of those guys
Speaker 1: that you learned that you still live with, and especially
Speaker 1: a guy like you know, John Madden.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I say with coach Madden and Arnold both were
Speaker 6: so genuine and it was amazing just to kind of
Speaker 6: see how they treated people and how that persona over
Speaker 6: time that was just them. They were so genuine and
Speaker 6: just kind of both this just man of the people
Speaker 6: approached that everyone identified with. And they were really savvy
Speaker 6: business people, but they saw a good idea or they
Speaker 6: saw you know, something and they just knew that was
Speaker 6: the right thing to do and they went after it,
Speaker 6: you know, and there wasn't a whole lot of strategy sessions.
Speaker 5: It was more just a lot of gut and I.
Speaker 6: Think this is the right thing to do, for the
Speaker 6: right reason and with the right people, and so we're going.
Speaker 5: To do it.
Speaker 3: It's interesting to think about those two guys, especially the
Speaker 3: way that you framed them, Mike, I had never heard
Speaker 3: that about Arnold palmer fit and it. If I knew
Speaker 3: that he had started the golf channel, I'd forgotten. That's
Speaker 3: such a fascinating idea of him putting television at the
Speaker 3: center of the game, because that is not intuitive, that's
Speaker 3: not an obvious insight, to be honest. So you think
Speaker 3: about that, and then you think about John Madden almost
Speaker 3: single handedly revolutionizing football and television, you know, changing the
Speaker 3: style in which the content is delivered, et cetera. Talk
Speaker 3: to us about how not just those guys, but your
Speaker 3: whole career at NBC has influenced the television product for TGL,
Speaker 3: which I mean essentral to its success. How are you
Speaker 3: thinking about it now? What are the early takeaways as
Speaker 3: you sort of moved through this first season.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think part of it is I kind of
Speaker 5: thought about in my career.
Speaker 6: Two big things at NBC that weren't golf for the Olympics,
Speaker 6: and so did I football. And you work for four
Speaker 6: years and you know, the day of the opening ceremony,
Speaker 6: you've got all of these things that you want to
Speaker 6: get done by that date. You know, much like the
Speaker 6: athletes are preparing to get everything done by that competition,
Speaker 6: and they got to be all. You know, they have
Speaker 6: to peak for that competition. And if you don't get
Speaker 6: it done, you're you're waiting four years to try it again.
Speaker 7: And then you juxtapose that with a property like Sunday
Speaker 7: Night Football, and you.
Speaker 6: Can make improvements every single week. You know, some of
Speaker 6: them are big, some of them minute. But over the
Speaker 6: course of a season, the first week products compared to
Speaker 6: the last week's product better damn well, be a lot better.
Speaker 6: And you make a lot of changes and a lot
Speaker 6: of improvements because of it.
Speaker 7: So I with TGL, you know, we had one chance
Speaker 7: to launch as as good and as big as you
Speaker 7: possibly can.
Speaker 6: You know, check we did that. And you know, we're
Speaker 6: creating a version of a sport. You know, we're basically
Speaker 6: from scratch trying to appeal to everything that a consumer
Speaker 6: in twenty twenty five would want to latch onto and
Speaker 6: then our job and I preach this to our team
Speaker 6: every week is continual improvement, every single week, and it
Speaker 6: doesn't matter what area it is, necessarily every area needs
Speaker 6: to be improving. I found this kind of concept that
Speaker 6: if you're not changing something, you're choosing.
Speaker 5: That this is good enough.
Speaker 6: And I don't think any of us are ever signing
Speaker 6: up to be any anything we ever do any day
Speaker 6: that's good enough. You always want to be able to
Speaker 6: make it better. And if you're not seeing things that
Speaker 6: can make it better, you're probably not.
Speaker 5: Doing your job.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: One of the interesting things that I saw and are
Speaker 3: as we were sort of pulling together.
Speaker 2: You know what's going on with you guys.
Speaker 3: You're bringing down that the median age viewer is sort
Speaker 3: of coming down for golf, which is kind of key.
Speaker 2: I say this as a.
Speaker 3: Definitively middle aged white man, I'm sort of the target audience.
Speaker 3: But what you really want is like my kids, my
Speaker 3: college age kids watching this, So how do you continue
Speaker 3: to do that?
Speaker 2: And also, you know, you mentioned something that I.
Speaker 3: Wanted to sort of double tap on, as Alex says,
Speaker 3: which is this notion of finding the right windows in
Speaker 3: which to put it on both seasonally but even like
Speaker 3: day of the week. It feels like that has been
Speaker 3: very deliberate. So talk to us a little bit about that.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Look, the youth movement was really important, and it's
Speaker 6: something that we knew.
Speaker 5: We could put together a lot of.
Speaker 6: The concepts and ideas that we either knew or thought
Speaker 6: would translate into a younger audience. But you don't really
Speaker 6: know if you're going to get a younger audience until
Speaker 6: you actually see the data after you put your first
Speaker 6: few competitions on. And frankly, we were surprised at how
Speaker 6: young it was, and I was surprised at how young
Speaker 6: it got as fast as it did. It was almost immediately,
Speaker 6: you know, first first night, fifty two years old median age,
Speaker 6: which is on par with the NBA, which Alex knows
Speaker 6: is one of the youngest sports, really the youngest major
Speaker 6: American sport on television. And then a large percentage, you know,
Speaker 6: on par with the NBA as well, was in that
Speaker 6: advertiser coveted eighteen to forty nine year old demographic. And
Speaker 6: the reason why we say it that way is is
Speaker 6: that's what advertisers are buying. They're buying that eighteen to
Speaker 6: forty nine with disposal income and spending habits that'll be
Speaker 6: kind to prove out lifetime value. Frankly, it's about a
Speaker 6: dozen years younger than traditional golf. Which that was one
Speaker 6: of the conversations that I had with with Jay Monahan
Speaker 6: when I went and talked to him about doing this
Speaker 6: in partnership with the PGA Tour, is if we do
Speaker 6: this right, you know, there will be younger fans who
Speaker 6: will get introduced to a player on primetime watching TGL
Speaker 6: on ESPN, and then that same player will be on
Speaker 6: the leader board that's that today or Sunday on CBS
Speaker 6: or NBC, and that fan that saw them on Monday
Speaker 6: or Tuesday night in primetime will follow that player because
Speaker 6: they're going to get a sense of the personality and
Speaker 6: something in this new environment where they're micd up and
Speaker 6: you hear from them all for two hours straight.
Speaker 5: And we'll find new fans that way.
Speaker 6: And I think the reality is, if you look at
Speaker 6: the demographic data, we are finding new fans, especially young fans,
Speaker 6: and we're hearing anecdotally a lot of families are watching together,
Speaker 6: which is great. I mean that kind of gets you
Speaker 6: back to you people watching on whatever streen is available
Speaker 6: to them at the time. But the idea of a
Speaker 6: family sitting around watching a sports competition of any sort,
Speaker 6: I think is something that we can all get on it.
Speaker 2: So what's the next big step forward?
Speaker 3: Like, what is the thing that you're going to come
Speaker 3: out of this season looking to next season? Give us
Speaker 3: this a preview of something you've seen that you're like,
Speaker 3: all right, we need to like level this up, or
Speaker 3: we need to do this differently. Like what jumps out
Speaker 3: as one of the biggest learnings here.
Speaker 6: Well, we got two weeks left for the playoffs, so
Speaker 6: we want to make sure we continue to focus on that.
Speaker 6: We are getting a lot of interest from a lot
Speaker 6: of different sports team owners on expansion, and that's something
Speaker 6: that we're looking at seriously.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 6: We're looking at a potential venue on the West Coast
Speaker 6: just to make the schedule easier for players. And then
Speaker 6: I think there's a lot of little things talking about
Speaker 6: that continual improvement. About eight months ago, I told everyone
Speaker 6: on our team start your season two lists now, because
Speaker 6: there's going to be a period of time where we
Speaker 6: can't make big changes for season one.
Speaker 5: But you want to make sure that you make those
Speaker 5: for season two.
Speaker 6: So I think you know elements of which holes resonated,
Speaker 6: what type of holes resonated with fans, what technology really worked,
Speaker 6: What are some of the things that the tech shows
Speaker 6: that we could do more of, just based on the
Speaker 6: fan feedback? And I think, frankly, we are able to
Speaker 6: hear from fans and get feedback from fans in this
Speaker 6: day and age more than you ever have before. So
Speaker 6: hearing them and then putting these things into play, some
Speaker 6: of them we can do, and we've done this season,
Speaker 6: but you know a lot of that you'll have to
Speaker 6: do a year later because it does take more R
Speaker 6: and D construction, et cetera.
Speaker 5: You know, more tech.
Speaker 3: Work, right right? That sounds great? All right, so let's
Speaker 3: do the lightning ground. It's five questions. We'll bounce it
Speaker 3: back and forth, keep it tight, and we'll jump right in.
Speaker 3: What's the best piece of advice you've received on deal
Speaker 3: making your business?
Speaker 5: Say? Please, say thank you.
Speaker 4: Who's your dream deal making partner?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 5: We got a lot of really good ones.
Speaker 6: I A would say the team owners that we have
Speaker 6: around the table right now, for a lot of different reasons,
Speaker 6: they all bring something to the table for us.
Speaker 2: That's a pretty good lineup. What's the most nervous you've ever.
Speaker 5: Been asking my wife to marry me?
Speaker 1: I assume she said, yes, you have kids favorite hype
Speaker 1: song before you go into a big meeting or a
Speaker 1: big negotiation or proposal.
Speaker 2: I guess I.
Speaker 6: Grew up in Memphis, so I got a lot of
Speaker 6: music in my background.
Speaker 7: Is there anything that kind of puts me back near
Speaker 7: my roots? I would say, is probably the right the
Speaker 7: right vein we need, We need.
Speaker 3: A song, Give me a song, so like bb King
Speaker 3: or Elvis Presley like that sort of.
Speaker 7: I would go with some old blues or you know,
Speaker 7: something with some some big bass in it.
Speaker 5: I'm a big Rolling Stones fan, so you okay, I
Speaker 5: can hit a lot of Stones as well.
Speaker 2: All right? That sounds good?
Speaker 5: All right?
Speaker 3: And what's your advice for someone listening who wants a
Speaker 3: career like yours?
Speaker 6: You gotta work hard, you know, just start working, show
Speaker 6: up early, stay late. There is no job that should
Speaker 6: be beneath you. You can get experience and learn something
Speaker 6: from pretty much anything that you're asked to do. You
Speaker 6: just got to be there and start start rolling up
Speaker 6: your slaves and do the work.
Speaker 3: All right, well, Mike McCarley, congratulations on season one of TGL.
Speaker 3: It's been really fun to watch. I know Alex and
Speaker 3: I are eager to come see it live, so if
Speaker 3: not this season next and again, best of luck as
Speaker 3: this goes on, you know, and hopefully you know, we'll
Speaker 3: become good enough.
Speaker 2: Golfers that you know you'll hang out with us. At
Speaker 2: some point.
Speaker 5: We have nets to.
Speaker 6: Cover up the led, so you guys are invited time
Speaker 6: to watch the match and we'll get you to hit
Speaker 6: some shots.
Speaker 5: Thanks Mike, Bye bye, thank you.
Speaker 3: The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly.
Speaker 3: This episode was made by Annamazarakus, Stacey Wong, and Lizzie Phillip.
Speaker 3: Amy Keene is our editor. Our theme music is made
Speaker 3: by Blake Maples. Our executive producers are Kelly Leferrier, Ashley Honig,
Speaker 3: and Brenda Newnham. Sainte Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts.
Speaker 3: Support from Rachel Carnivale and Elena Los Angeles. Thanks so
Speaker 3: much for listening to the Deal. If you have a minute, subscribe,
Speaker 3: rate and review our show. It'll help other listeners find us.
Speaker 3: I'm Jason Kelly, see you next week.