1 00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 2: Hi everyone, welcome back to the Deal. 3 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 3: I'm your host, Jason Kelly alongside my partner Alex Rodriguez. 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 3: All Right, Alex, I feel like, you know, it's been 5 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 3: seventy two hours since I've seen It's like the longest 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 3: we've gone in a couple of weeks. 7 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 2: Like, what have you been up to? What's going on? 8 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,960 Speaker 1: My preference, Jason, if I saw you daily? We text 9 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: daily anyways, exactly. 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 3: We know exactly what's going on in each other's lives 11 00:00:33,560 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 3: and in the sports world. So we were at Sloan 12 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:41,480 Speaker 3: MIT Sloan Sports Analytics Conference last week, a really, really 13 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,920 Speaker 3: fun conversation with David Blitzer. I'm so excited for people 14 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 3: to hear that later on this spring, and we talk 15 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 3: about one of One. This is a guy who we 16 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 3: could have gone for three hours, don't you think we 17 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 3: could have? 18 00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: And I mean he is one of one. That's a 19 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: perfect way to describe him. I mean to think he's 20 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: been at Blackstone since nineteen ninety one and now he's 21 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 1: making a paradigm shift to run in his family office. 22 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: And what I think our viewers would really find interesting 23 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: in our listeners is he has an extraordinary amount of 24 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: equity across every sports platform and how he uses a 25 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:19,200 Speaker 1: data all the way from Little League as being a 26 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,679 Speaker 1: partner to cal Ripken to what he does with his 27 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: guardians and everything else in between is a fascinating conversation. 28 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, so really look forward to everyone getting to hear that. 29 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 3: So here's one interesting thing. I actually meant to text 30 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 3: you this. So I was texting with Jess Gallman, you know, 31 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:37,559 Speaker 3: who's sort of the convener along with Daryl moriy of Sloan, 32 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 3: and I was saying to her, I feel like one 33 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 3: of the measures and this is a snooty measure, so 34 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 3: like fair warning, but one of the measures of a 35 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,400 Speaker 3: really great conference is like the power of. 36 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: The green room. 37 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 3: And man, when we walked in there and saw all 38 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,040 Speaker 3: the other folks who were going to be on stage 39 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 3: had been on the stage. You know, we saw triple ages. 40 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 3: We were like walking through the there were all these 41 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 3: NWSL owners, there were Celtics executives. Like interestingly enough, it 42 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 3: was a lot of not surprisingly our deal universe. Kitlin Goo, 43 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 3: who is a guest on the show, she was actually 44 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 3: on a panel with the guy who's gonna be our 45 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,839 Speaker 3: guest today Mike McCary from TGL, and they were talking 46 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:19,519 Speaker 3: about emerging league. So it really was a who's who 47 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 3: and so excited to dig into that. In the meantime, 48 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 3: there's been a lot happening in the sports media world. 49 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 2: Our guy, Stephen A. 50 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 3: Smith, he told us last year when he taped this 51 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 3: show he was gonna get paid, Alex, he got paid. 52 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 4: He got paid, and he's worth every every dollar. 53 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: Look, the head of ESPN, Jimmy Potero, loves him, and 54 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: for good reason. I mean, he is very, very compelling. 55 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: Love him or hate him, you're going to tune in. 56 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:53,360 Speaker 1: He has very strong opinions. He's well informed. Yeah, and 57 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: my favorite thing is, I mean when he walks into arenas, 58 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: it's like Michael Jordan, I mean, is a trot. 59 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 4: He's a phenomenal talent. 60 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:01,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 61 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 3: So he's going to get one hundred million dollars about 62 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 3: twenty million a year. And what I found so interesting 63 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:08,720 Speaker 3: is I was sort of reading about it talking to people. 64 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 3: He told us when he sat down with us that 65 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,080 Speaker 3: first of all, he was chasing the bag. He's unapologetic 66 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 3: about that, but also he wanted more, say, more flexibility, 67 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 3: more ownership and and to your point about the influence 68 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 3: he look, he went viral last week over a confrontation 69 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 3: of sorts he had with Lebron James. So you know, 70 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 3: Lebron comes over to him in the middle of the game. 71 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 3: This is what I love about steven A. Right, steven 72 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 3: A is sitting courtside, He's sitting in between Larry David 73 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 3: and Ari Emmanuel like talk about like a power move, 74 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 3: just a power a seat, and Lebron comes over and 75 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 3: gets in his face about what steven A has been 76 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 3: saying about Bronnie, and steven A then turns it, as 77 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 3: he does, into a viral moment. The entire morning the 78 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 3: next morning on Big Take and on the steven A 79 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 3: Smith Show was all about that encounter. 80 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,720 Speaker 2: It's amazing. His content this generation is incredible. 81 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: It is a gigantic win for steven A. Smith, is 82 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,040 Speaker 1: an enormous win for ESPN. But this is the deal, 83 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 1: and I do want to just kind of go back 84 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: and double tap a little bit on the deal because 85 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: if you think about it, it took probably two months 86 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: for steven A Smith and ESPN to agree to one hundred. 87 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 1: It took about twelve months to get all the fine 88 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: print on what he can do what he can't do. 89 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,520 Speaker 4: Can he do on YouTube? Can he go into politics? 90 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: It just tells you deals have never been more complicated, 91 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: and this is a perfect example of that. 92 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up, because what 93 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 3: the complexity speaks to is how multi platform you have. 94 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 2: To be if you're going to be successful. 95 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 3: Listen, I'm like going down the self referential rabbit hole here, 96 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 3: but it's like, think about this show. You can listen 97 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 3: to it, you can watch it on YouTube, you can 98 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 3: watch it on blueberg dot com, you can read about 99 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 3: it all these you see it on social We have 100 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 3: to think that way. Steven A has been thinking that 101 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 3: way for a long time, and he is He is 102 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 3: a business man for sure. 103 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 2: All right. 104 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 3: Speaking of businessmen, another guy familiar to our listeners, Dave Roberts, 105 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 3: probably not your favorite guy back in the mall because 106 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 3: he beatured New York Yankees to win the World Series. 107 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 3: Of course, the manager of the Dodger, as Dave Roberts is, 108 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 3: he's getting paid as well, eight point one million dollars 109 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 3: a year a four year extension he signs. Tell me 110 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 3: about the significance of that deal from your perspective. 111 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: Well, I think Jason the power shift in sports, but 112 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: I would say baseball is probably most synonymous with analytics, 113 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,680 Speaker 1: and they were the you know, going back to you know, 114 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: Brad Pitt and Billy Bean, right and moneyball. If you 115 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 1: go back to those days, I think Sandy Alderson who 116 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: was a mentor to Billy Bean. He had a guy 117 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,839 Speaker 1: by the name of Art Howe, and basically the front 118 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: office message started back then a couple of decades ago, 119 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,560 Speaker 1: which was saying, we the front office, have all the power. 120 00:05:58,160 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 1: We were hired to be the voice of the team. 121 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: Will give you a seat at the table. But as 122 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: long as you run the team the way we want 123 00:06:04,200 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: to run it, analytics are and D departments. 124 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 4: You are are a guy. And the days of. 125 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: Loopanella Buck Show, Walter Joe Torre being in charge, those 126 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,000 Speaker 1: days are over. And I think one of the things 127 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:20,280 Speaker 1: that Dave Roberts have done has done a beautiful job 128 00:06:20,320 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 1: with is check the ego the door, both his experience 129 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: and his playing days and really be a collaborator and 130 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 1: really the lead. But let's make no mistake the front 131 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: officer running this team. One great example of the shift 132 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 1: in power I remember in six o seven when Joe 133 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: Tory was the manager and my manager with the Yankees. 134 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 1: He was making around six or seven million dollars at 135 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: that time. Brian Cashman, the GM was making a million dollars. 136 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: Today those numbers have completely reversed. Now you have a 137 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 1: guy like Andrew Friedman, the head of baseball for the Dodgers, 138 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: making ten million, and before this deal, Dave Roberts was 139 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: making closer to two to four million. Yeah, and that 140 00:06:58,360 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: tells you where things are, or as where the power lies. 141 00:07:01,800 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 5: Wow. 142 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 2: So I have to say you surprised me there. 143 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 3: I did not think that's what you were going to say, 144 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 3: because I see this paycheck and I'm like, wow. You know, 145 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 3: he and Craig Counsel are sort of like more or 146 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 3: less even in terms of being the highest paid managers 147 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 3: Craig Council of course of the Cubs. That's fascinating because 148 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 3: I remember watching I mean, I read the book Moneyball, 149 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 3: as I think anybody who cares about sports either has 150 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 3: or should Michael Lewis's phenomenal, phenomenal book. And then the 151 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 3: movie you mentioned, Brad Pitt, you know you remember so vividly. 152 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 3: Art how was played by the late Philip Seymour Hoffman 153 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 3: to great effect. 154 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 2: And he was I mean his legs. 155 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 3: Were cut off underneath him right by Billy Bean because 156 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 3: Billy Bean was dictating, here's who we're gonna play, Here's 157 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 3: who we're gonna get rid of. Made some very dramatic decisions. 158 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 3: So that is continuing. That's really fascinating. So is that 159 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 3: good for baseball? 160 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 4: I think it's good. 161 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 1: But I think, you know, like most things, Jason, the 162 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 1: pendulum go THO sometimes overcorrects way too much to the right. 163 00:08:03,000 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: And I think when you land, whether you want to 164 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: land at fifty fifty or sixty seventy or seventy thirty, 165 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 1: whatever you want to do, it can be one hundred 166 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: percent to zero. Yeah, and you still have to have 167 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 1: experience in baseball people. And that's why I think today's 168 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 1: modern day manager, the perfect person for that is a 169 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,000 Speaker 1: guy like Dave Roberts or Aaron Boone with the Yankees 170 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: or Greg Council with the Cubs. You have to check 171 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 1: your ego to door and you have to be you're 172 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:29,800 Speaker 1: running these franchises a little bit more like a board. 173 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: And ironically this might be surprising to our listeners, Jason, 174 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: that the most powerful person in the organization where the 175 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,520 Speaker 1: buck stops. It's really not with the manager, and is 176 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: not with the general manager, is with the head of analytics. 177 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. 178 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,320 Speaker 3: Again, a dramatic shift. And you've obviously seen it. I 179 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,840 Speaker 3: mean you see it. I would imagine in basketball too. 180 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 3: You know, you and I run across you more than 181 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,640 Speaker 3: I in a more intimate way in your travels with 182 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 3: some very powerful people, you know, inside basketball teams, football teams, etc. 183 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 3: Who are the men and women who have the numbers? 184 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 3: And if you have the numbers, I mean, listen, that's 185 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:09,319 Speaker 3: the whole basis. Going back to where we started, we 186 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 3: were hundreds of people at the at Sloan, at the 187 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 3: business school at MIT. 188 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 2: MIT is all about numbers. 189 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 3: And I mean the analysis that they're doing both on 190 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 3: the business side and on the field, on the pitch, 191 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 3: on the court. We've never seen anything like this before. 192 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 3: And you know, we were talking to Blitz, David Blitzer again. 193 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 3: He was talking about how much he uses analytics across 194 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,959 Speaker 3: his portfolio, and he feels like he's just getting started. 195 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 3: So you do wonder as the pendulum swings back and 196 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 3: forth where all of these sports land. And I would 197 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 3: imagine and here I'm leaning on your expertise across multiple 198 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 3: professional sports. I guess the answer is different depending on 199 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 3: the team and depending on the sport. 200 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 2: Right. 201 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: Look, I think one of the things that analytics you've 202 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 1: got to be cautious for, and this kind of a 203 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: cautious tale, is that sometimes analytics does not see what 204 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 1: a guy like our former guest Johnny Damon brings to 205 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:05,559 Speaker 1: the tape. Yeah, and his confidence and his swagger and 206 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:09,199 Speaker 1: his ability to make the clubhouse mood more fun and 207 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 1: less especially in a place like New York where you 208 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: want to lower. 209 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 4: The temperature, you want to lower the pressure. 210 00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,719 Speaker 1: Guys like John Olerude, my former teammate, Johnny Damon, they 211 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: may not be like the greatest players of all time 212 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 1: when it comes to analytics, but when you combined what 213 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,680 Speaker 1: they bring to the clubhouse plus their analytics, the world champions. 214 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 4: And that's exactly what we did in New York with 215 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 4: Johnny Damon. 216 00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great example. 217 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:35,440 Speaker 3: And if folks did not see that one on your feet, 218 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 3: you should definitely go back listen to Johnny Damon. I mean, man, 219 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 3: talk about one of one. If you made that guy up, 220 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 3: no one would believe you. He's unbelievable. 221 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: We even had our first political reference, which we weren't expecting. 222 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 2: We certainly need, we certainly did. 223 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 3: I guess in retrospect, if anyone was going to do it, 224 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:52,480 Speaker 3: it was going to be him. 225 00:10:52,520 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 2: So check that out. 226 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,560 Speaker 3: And also, if you're going back to the feed, check 227 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 3: out our conversation with Steven A. Smith from last year, 228 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 3: because he he lays it all out. He talks about 229 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 3: the foundation of his argument that ultimately led to this 230 00:11:05,720 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 3: big deal. And I went back and listened to some 231 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 3: of it, and you knew exactly where he was going, 232 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 3: and you knew that if he didn't get this number, 233 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 3: and he essentially said it to us, if he didn't 234 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 3: get the number that he wanted, which I think this 235 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 3: was it, he was gone. 236 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 2: And I think ESPN knew that all right. 237 00:11:22,640 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 3: Coming up on the deal, the CEO and the co 238 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 3: founder of Tomorrow's Sports. That's Mike McCarley. You know him 239 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 3: best as the co creator of TGL. You've seen it 240 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:33,719 Speaker 3: on TV, maybe you've seen it live. We're going to 241 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 3: chop it up with him and get into the business 242 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 3: of golf. Stay tuned, all right, Well, joining us now 243 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 3: is Mike McCarley. He's the founder and CEO of Tomorrow's 244 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 3: Sports founded back in twenty twenty two. 245 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:56,880 Speaker 2: The project that you're probably. 246 00:11:56,520 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 3: Most familiar with that falls under their auspices is Tomorrow 247 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 3: Golf League, also known as TGL. It's been I would say, 248 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 3: Alex kind of inescapable in the best possible way. We 249 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 3: see people talk about it, we hear people talk about 250 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 3: in our world. I feel like the cap table is 251 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 3: like a list of either former or dream guests on 252 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 3: the deal. And so we're really happy, Mike to have 253 00:12:18,960 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 3: you with us. So for those who don't know, break 254 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 3: it down for us. What is TGL and how how 255 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:28,240 Speaker 3: do you describe it in your elevator pitch. 256 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 6: Yeah, it's very simplest forms. It's a platform for primetime 257 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 6: team golf. So can we take some of the best 258 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,640 Speaker 6: elements of golf that resonate with a modern media consumer, 259 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 6: you know, modern fan, and try to put that into 260 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 6: a format that will really resonate in today's age. 261 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 5: And what does that mean? 262 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 6: It means primetime live, two teams enter, one team leaves 263 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 6: two hours later, a winner, lots of data, lots of moments, 264 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 6: global stars. And what we found was the technology allowed 265 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 6: us to do that. So we weren't setting out to 266 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 6: create this, you know, super tech forward Golf League. We 267 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 6: were setting out to create a short form version of 268 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 6: golf that would appeal to younger fans that we could 269 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 6: put it in in prime time in a team format 270 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 6: that we thought would resonate in this day and age. 271 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 6: And it happens to be true now that we're we're 272 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 6: three months or so into the season. 273 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,560 Speaker 1: So, Mike, you served as NBC you know, sports president, 274 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: you know, for golf and other departments. At what point 275 00:13:36,880 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 1: are you just sitting back in your family on a 276 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: Saturday and saying, I have an idea. 277 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 4: How do you even come up with such a great idea? 278 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's over time, I would say. 279 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 6: You know, one of my first jobs at NBC was 280 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 6: working with a lot of the different Olympics sports and 281 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 6: marketing the Olympics. 282 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 5: And in a lot of. 283 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 6: Ways, what you do in between the Olympics is those 284 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 6: sports wilme to you and ask you, you know, how 285 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 6: can we be better on television if you look at 286 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,800 Speaker 6: sports through that lens, you know, how can a certain 287 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 6: sport perform better on television? In a lot of ways, 288 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 6: It's spent the last of the quarter century or so, 289 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 6: I was at NBC sports. The last ten or so 290 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 6: years I was dedicated to golf. So if you're looking 291 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 6: at a sport every single day through that lens, you 292 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 6: start to notice a handful of things. When the US 293 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 6: Open goes to the West Coast and the US Opens 294 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,040 Speaker 6: in primetime on the East, ratings pop. We see it 295 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,200 Speaker 6: in the Ryder Cup every few years, when the guys 296 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 6: are in a team environment and they can feed off 297 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 6: that energy and they can feed off of each other. 298 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:45,800 Speaker 5: Some real moments are created from that. 299 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 6: So if we kind of take the elements of prime 300 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 6: time the elements of team golf and put them together, 301 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 6: how do we create more of those moments in a 302 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 6: condensed fashion? 303 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 5: And then I think the. 304 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 6: Other piece of it, Alex is just watching what's happened 305 00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 6: in technology general throughout sports. If you can imagine, you know, 306 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,040 Speaker 6: watching a football game now without the first and ten line, 307 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 6: and how hard it would be to kind of explain 308 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,840 Speaker 6: to a fan who's just dropping into the sport for 309 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 6: the first time what it is that they're trying to do. 310 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 5: It really helps demystify the. 311 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 6: Sport of football, much in the same way the tracer 312 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 6: line on the golf ball really helps to demystify what 313 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:25,760 Speaker 6: some of the best players in the world are trying 314 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 6: to do when they're out on a golf course. So 315 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 6: all of those things coming together, you know, it just 316 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,640 Speaker 6: kind of shows you what is possible and when you 317 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 6: when you put it all into one piece, what comes 318 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 6: out is something that looks a lot like TJL And so. 319 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 3: How do I mean we're getting into the nitty gritty 320 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 3: of the deal. It's it's called the deal. Uh So 321 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 3: this stands to reason, like, how do you go about, 322 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 3: like you put together a pitch deck, Like, what's what's 323 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 3: the process for you to sort of bring this to life? 324 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 2: What are the first early steps? 325 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 3: Because I am anticipating already what Alex's next question is 326 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 3: going to be, and it has to do the certain 327 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:01,600 Speaker 3: most famous golfer in the world. 328 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 5: But that was a very important meeting. 329 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 6: We'll just say that leading up to it, you're noticing 330 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 6: all these things that I just described, and you start 331 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 6: to form a thesis and then you start talking to people, 332 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 6: and you know, it was very close to Tiger and 333 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 6: his team and very close to Rory and his team, 334 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:21,800 Speaker 6: just being so involved in golf with NBC and Golf Channel, 335 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 6: and then the pandemic hits, and you're kind of thinking, Okay, 336 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 6: if this is going to work, now's the time to 337 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:33,640 Speaker 6: make this work. Because technology and screens, you know, look 338 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 6: at what we're doing right now, really started to take 339 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,560 Speaker 6: over and just have a much more important role in 340 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 6: our life. And then you start to see, you know 341 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 6: a lot of the tailwinds that are happening in sports 342 00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 6: with data coming in, you know, more and more media 343 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 6: opportunities from for a live standpoint, and how that helps. 344 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 6: Sports are really trying to keep the traditional media bundle together. 345 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 6: So I middle a pandemic for kids homeschooled at home, 346 00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:00,920 Speaker 6: I had my full time job, and my wife and 347 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 6: I started kind of working on what this could look like. 348 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 6: And then had a few conversations with Rob McNamara, who's 349 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 6: on really close to Tiger on his team, few. 350 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 5: Conversations with Ryan Dodters. 351 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 6: Who's the CEO of Full Swing Technology Company, and a 352 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 6: handful of others, and just continue to ask the question, 353 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 6: you know, is this possible? 354 00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:21,400 Speaker 5: Can you do this? 355 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 7: And then eventually went and sat down with Tiger, and 356 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 7: ninety minutes later he just looked at me and said, look, 357 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 7: if I commit to doing this, will you commit to 358 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 7: doing it too, and at that point I knew we 359 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:33,360 Speaker 7: were kind of off and running. 360 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 4: Well, that's a great segue, thank you, Jason. 361 00:17:37,560 --> 00:17:40,920 Speaker 1: So, Mike, I go back with Tiger when I first 362 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: entered the major leagues at eighteen. 363 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 4: We're about the same age. 364 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: He was a freshman at Stanford, and that was when 365 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: I first got to know him a little bit. You know, 366 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: one of the things about Tiger, if you know him, 367 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: he has one buffet type discipline, meaning that he says 368 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,359 Speaker 1: no to like ninety nine out of one hundred things. 369 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: How the hell did you get him to say yes? 370 00:18:03,480 --> 00:18:05,840 Speaker 1: So I'm Tiger, I'm a terrible golfer, but I would 371 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,679 Speaker 1: like to pretend I can be a poser. Pitch to 372 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: Jason and I how you got him to say yes? 373 00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 6: We'll build a venue within thirty minutes of your house. 374 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 6: You drive over, you play for two hours, you drive home. 375 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,280 Speaker 6: You keep your same schedule on the PGA tour, you 376 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 6: keep your same prep for the Masters. You don't ever 377 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 6: get an airplane, don't. You don't stay in a hotel. 378 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 6: And if we do this right, they'll be you know, 379 00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,959 Speaker 6: real money, like you would make if you're flying all 380 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,880 Speaker 6: over the world. You know, kind of wrecking a week 381 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 6: or wrecking your body. And the reality is, you know, 382 00:18:41,680 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 6: these guys you know for a very long time golfers. 383 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 6: You know it's a global game and they travel all 384 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 6: around the world to play, and I think they always will. 385 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:54,400 Speaker 6: But you get to a certain place in your career 386 00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 6: and frankly in your life where you're a father, you've 387 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 6: got kids, you've got soccer games. 388 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 5: Got other things. 389 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,240 Speaker 6: If you can have a way to monetize your time 390 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 6: and create something that frankly, can be a legacy business 391 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 6: for you for decades ahead, it's. 392 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,159 Speaker 5: Going to get your attention. And I think it was. 393 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 6: It was a combination of a lot of things, but 394 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:19,400 Speaker 6: timing was a really important part of it. 395 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 2: And so after that conversation, right hold on, Jason. 396 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 5: So so, Alex, how's that pitch? If someone will come, well. 397 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 4: It's great. I didn't want to hug the ball. 398 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: But my second question was going to be a follow up, 399 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:32,720 Speaker 1: was why didn't you come to Jason and me that's 400 00:19:32,760 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 1: the same. 401 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:37,880 Speaker 5: I haven't seen your golf games. I everyone has seen 402 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 5: Tiger's golf games. Will say that you only got a 403 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 5: hardball that flying an hour. 404 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 4: That's fair. 405 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 3: Listen, I can't speak for Alex, but if you had 406 00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 3: seen my golf game, that'd be a hard pass from 407 00:19:51,240 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 3: your perspective. But I'm getting better, I'm trying. I'm trying 408 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 3: my best, and so I would love to be in 409 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 3: your head for that minute that you walk out of 410 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:04,920 Speaker 3: the meeting with Tiger. He's turned it around on you 411 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,120 Speaker 3: right and basically been like, if I'm doing this, you're 412 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 3: doing it. What's the next step, what's the feeling? What's 413 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 3: the first phone call you make at that point? 414 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 1: And Mike before you answered that as you're walking in, 415 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,119 Speaker 1: I want to just piggyback up my partner, Jason handicap 416 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: it are you thinking maybe fifty to fifty? 417 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,600 Speaker 4: Are you nervous? Are you excited? Are you just like 418 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 4: there's a walk in the park. 419 00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 6: No, it wasn't a walk in the park, but I 420 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:29,719 Speaker 6: think my chances were pretty good, just because you know, 421 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 6: we had done a lot of the pre work in advance. 422 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 5: I mean, Tiger's got a great team around him. 423 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 6: Rob McNamara, Chris Hubman, Mark Steinberg is a longtime agent, sure, 424 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,920 Speaker 6: and we had all been involved in other projects together 425 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 6: and had spent some time on this before. So I think, 426 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 6: you know, The next step was one me saying yes 427 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:54,320 Speaker 6: to that question and two calling Rory, and then within 428 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 6: a couple of weeks, Rory was on board. 429 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 5: And the plan all along was that. 430 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,080 Speaker 6: The three of us would go to the PGA to 431 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,080 Speaker 6: and bringing the PGA Tour on board as a partner. 432 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 6: And you know, and that took after that first meeting, 433 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 6: that took you a couple of weeks to kind of 434 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 6: get Rory on board. It was a few phone calls. 435 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,919 Speaker 6: Rory and I had been involved in a few projects together, 436 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 6: so and he already had this thesis about embracing technology 437 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,959 Speaker 6: to really help bring the sport of golf into the 438 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 6: future and kind of this digital future for golf, and 439 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 6: much like Tiger has a thesis that was aligned with 440 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:34,240 Speaker 6: getting more kids and families involved with sports, especially especially golf. 441 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 6: So the two of them kind of saw what the 442 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,879 Speaker 6: future for the sport could look like. I was just 443 00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,439 Speaker 6: coming in with the idea and frankly a little bit 444 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 6: of the background and the track record to be able 445 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 6: to pull something like this together. And getting the PGA 446 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 6: Tour was a big piece of it, because we always 447 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,200 Speaker 6: wanted to do something that was going to be complimentary 448 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 6: from a schedule standpoint for the players, so they could 449 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 6: continue to play the schedule that they preferred to play, 450 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,639 Speaker 6: keep their existing sponsors, all of those sorts of things, 451 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 6: and just making this additive to this existing ecosystem that's 452 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:07,160 Speaker 6: already really good for the players on PGA Tour. 453 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:09,720 Speaker 3: Talk us through building out the rest of the cap table, 454 00:22:09,760 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 3: because you know, I sort of somewhat globally said it 455 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,560 Speaker 3: at the top, but it's like, these are the people 456 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 3: that Alex and I sort of know admire. We think 457 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 3: about these as the smartest investors, the savvyest athlete investors 458 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 3: who are out there. You know, you're talking about Serena 459 00:22:26,440 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 3: and Steph Curry, Fenway Sports Group, Stevie Cohen, David Blitzer, 460 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,439 Speaker 3: Mark Lazri. I mean, I could go on and on 461 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 3: and on, Michael Strahan, Jeter, Eli Manning, Like, what's the 462 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:42,240 Speaker 3: process through which you do that, because people who are listening, 463 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,879 Speaker 3: who are entrepreneurial in thinking about an idea, are like 464 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 3: salivating at the prospect of having that sort of cap table. 465 00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 5: Yeah. 466 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 6: I think it's a good question, and it's one that 467 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 6: we get asked a lot, But I mean, I think 468 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 6: it's the very basic part of it is you've got 469 00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,720 Speaker 6: a track record and a history in the sports business. 470 00:23:00,040 --> 00:23:03,239 Speaker 5: We all know. It's a small world that we live in, 471 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 5: you know. 472 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,040 Speaker 6: I like to think that through the years, I've developed 473 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:11,600 Speaker 6: a nice network of you know, strong relationships, and you 474 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 6: try to treat people well, you know, all all the 475 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:16,640 Speaker 6: way around. So you start making a few phone calls. 476 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:18,920 Speaker 6: One of my first phone calls was Dick Eversall, who's 477 00:23:19,040 --> 00:23:22,040 Speaker 6: a mentor of mine, worked very close to together for 478 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 6: a long time. 479 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 3: Dick Eversolt legendary like TV producer ran NBC Sports, you know, 480 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 3: essentially invented the modern Olympics coverage. I think it's fair 481 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 3: to say ran SNL for it. I mean, by the 482 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 3: way his book, Alex, you should listen to it at 483 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,040 Speaker 3: some point. It's an unbelievable memoir of like sports and entertainment. 484 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 2: Sorry, Mike, but go ahead. 485 00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,800 Speaker 5: So so, yeah, that's a good point. 486 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 6: Jason so called Dick because I kind of wanted him 487 00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 6: to talk me out of it. I mean, I got 488 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 6: four little kids at home, you know, very good career, 489 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:59,199 Speaker 6: and he didn't. He said, I think it's a great concept, 490 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 6: and if you can do you know, X, Y and 491 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 6: Z things and get those done, you know, how big 492 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 6: of a check can I write into this business to 493 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 6: be the first investor, and it just kind of took 494 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 6: off from there and we started. I mean, you guys know, 495 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 6: it's like you introduce a concept to somebody and if 496 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,360 Speaker 6: they like it, they say, I'd like to introduce this 497 00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 6: to my friend so and so, And it just so 498 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,880 Speaker 6: happens that we're working in a group of people where 499 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:26,920 Speaker 6: the friends that they have or have, you know, all 500 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,360 Speaker 6: the capabilities and the wherewithal to be able to support 501 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,120 Speaker 6: something like this and frankly help make it fly. 502 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 5: I mean the team owners that. 503 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 6: We brought on board for TGL having Arthur Blank, having 504 00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 6: Alexis and Serena, having Fenway Sports Group, having Mark Lazar, 505 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 6: having Steve Cohen. I mean, it's it's been a really 506 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:51,880 Speaker 6: successful group of people to put together and to kind 507 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,199 Speaker 6: of be advisors as you're building a business for the 508 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 6: first time. And that's not to mention Tiger and David 509 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,200 Speaker 6: Blitzer teamed up to own the Jupiter team as well, 510 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 6: So you get six people around the table that can 511 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,359 Speaker 6: help you build something. And for the teams that have 512 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 6: really a portfolio that they can put this team in 513 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 6: the middle of. From an operational standpoint really help them 514 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,919 Speaker 6: move very quickly and accelerate their growth very fast. 515 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,480 Speaker 1: On the other side of that, just one question is 516 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,040 Speaker 1: you know, with these deep pockets also come fairly large egos, 517 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,440 Speaker 1: strong opinions, a lot of thoughts. 518 00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 4: How do you manage that? 519 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: And has your experience being a television executive can I 520 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,399 Speaker 1: help you kind of bring this all together? 521 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 6: Yeah? 522 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 5: I would say that was very helpful. 523 00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 6: I think it was also helpful having Tiger and Rory 524 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:57,200 Speaker 6: and the PGA Tour on as partners, because no one's 525 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 6: going to question the golf at cum In, right, so 526 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 6: the core sport of you know, our first project in TGL, 527 00:26:05,560 --> 00:26:08,639 Speaker 6: no one's questioning why are you doing this? Why are 528 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,440 Speaker 6: you doing that? We would have discussions about it internally, 529 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 6: but at the end of the day, you know, Tiger 530 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 6: and Rory kind of bless a competitive format, and you know, 531 00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,359 Speaker 6: we've we've had some things that we've changed along the 532 00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:23,119 Speaker 6: way from the original plan, and a lot of times, 533 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,280 Speaker 6: you know, Tiger Rory have said, I like this idea, 534 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,639 Speaker 6: and we will go test it and come back and 535 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 6: say here's what the testing tells us, and then you 536 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 6: kind of make a decision to move forward. 537 00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 5: But I think, you know, managing egos. 538 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 6: I think you have a general sense of you know, 539 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 6: and reputation of who's going to be helpful, especially in 540 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 6: the business at this stage, which is really important. The 541 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,720 Speaker 6: people who had been involved in startups before were I 542 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:53,879 Speaker 6: mean Arthur Blank's history with Home Depot alone, just understanding 543 00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 6: what it takes to pull something like this off and 544 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 6: having lived it himself really helpful. I like to think 545 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,959 Speaker 6: that because of the cap table we've put together, we're 546 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,679 Speaker 6: one or two phone calls away from you know, getting 547 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,320 Speaker 6: the best advice on almost anything in the world. 548 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 3: So this is not Mike not been without setbacks. I mean, 549 00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 3: obviously the arena itself essentially Malfa. 550 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 2: I don't know, how would you describe it, lost the roof. 551 00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 5: On the building. 552 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,400 Speaker 6: I mean a lot like what happened in Tampa this 553 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 6: past year from the hurricane. Yeah, those visuals were similar. 554 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, So that sets you back a full year, right 555 00:27:32,119 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 3: in terms of launch. So what is that moment like 556 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:37,600 Speaker 3: and how how did you have to adjust at that 557 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 3: point in terms of the modeling, in terms of you know, 558 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,199 Speaker 3: the TV content, like what's involved when you have to 559 00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:45,879 Speaker 3: make that sort of decision to delay. 560 00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:48,440 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a very tough decision one. 561 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,119 Speaker 6: And I knew pretty quickly after we knew kind of 562 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:53,479 Speaker 6: the timeline. 563 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 5: That we were looking at. 564 00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 6: I got there that later that day on site, and 565 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 6: the team, the construction team, you know, I'd already put 566 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,680 Speaker 6: together a bunch of plans on how they could get 567 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 6: something ready to go for that season, and I just 568 00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 6: knew that it was going to be rushed and it 569 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 6: wasn't the right right idea. And I knew at that 570 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 6: point my job was more consensus. 571 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:14,920 Speaker 5: Builder than anything else. 572 00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 6: I mean amongst investors, amongst team owners, amongst sponsors. We 573 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 6: had so FI on board at that point, we had 574 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 6: ESPN on board as a media partner, and the team 575 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 6: owners pretty much all told me, you know, a bunch 576 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 6: of one on one calls like, hey, we trust you, 577 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 6: you know, come back to us with what you think 578 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 6: is the best thing to do. I had a conversation 579 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 6: with Anthony Notados, the CEO of so Far, and he said, look, 580 00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 6: I believed in this a year ago when you first 581 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 6: told me about it. I'm going to believe in it 582 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 6: more a year from now. So don't worry. We're going 583 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 6: to be fine. And then ESPN Roz Durant. To her credit, 584 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 6: she flew down Florida. We set at a coffee shop 585 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 6: for two hours on a Saturday morning, and we walked 586 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 6: through all the different scheduling opportunities and at the end 587 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 6: of it, we knew, you know, part of the business 588 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,040 Speaker 6: when I started the scheduling piece of this was don't 589 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,560 Speaker 6: compete with football. Have football as something that's going to 590 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,200 Speaker 6: be a promotional vehicle for you. So after about an hour, 591 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 6: we pretty much had decided the schedule for twenty twenty 592 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 6: five should look almost exactly what the schedule for twenty 593 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 6: twenty four was. And then the last hour we kind 594 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 6: of just caught up on, you know, all the personal 595 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 6: things and frankly, she just want to know how I 596 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 6: was doing because it was a very stressful time, which 597 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,680 Speaker 6: those moments with a partner you remember forever, those people 598 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 6: that were with you and kind of doing the right 599 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 6: thing when you're in a tough spot. You always take 600 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 6: that with you and you'll never forget it. It's a 601 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 6: really important to note though. At that same time, what 602 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 6: happened is the college football Playoff expanded, so the ESPN 603 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,120 Speaker 6: schedule changed, so we did have a few wrinkles, you know, 604 00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 6: even after we had decided generally what we should do, 605 00:29:58,160 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 6: then there was a lot more work to be done 606 00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 6: because that was still that expansion was still to take place. 607 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,760 Speaker 3: Was there a moment or more than a moment when 608 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 3: that accident happened, that you're like, Okay, I just this 609 00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 3: may not work like that, this may not get off 610 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 3: the ground. 611 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 5: Maybe I'm foolishly optimistic. 612 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,480 Speaker 6: But over five years of kind of nothing but building 613 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 6: this business full time, those thoughts never really crept into 614 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 6: my mind. 615 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 5: I mean they were always for me. There was just 616 00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 5: there was no plan B. And if anyone seemed. 617 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 6: To think they had a doubt that this wouldn't work, 618 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 6: I just kind of moved on. 619 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 5: You know, if an investor, a. 620 00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 6: Partner where everything was on zoom, because you were still 621 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 6: in the early days of the pandemic, but if it 622 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 6: just seemed like they didn't get it, I couldn't get 623 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,480 Speaker 6: off the phone fast enough because I could get waste my. 624 00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 5: Time and get with someone who really believed in it. 625 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,960 Speaker 1: Of course, of course, one thought, you know, mentors have 626 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: been such an incredibly important part of my business career 627 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: and baseball career. I'm wondering, you know, you're a young 628 00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,760 Speaker 1: guy you're very experienced obviously, what a competitive advantage to 629 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: be on television with such a great company at Comcast 630 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,040 Speaker 1: NBC for so many years. But wondering about more mentors 631 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: that helped influence your career and really have helped you 632 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 1: think about this project in particular. 633 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 5: Yeah, it starts with Dick Iversol for sure. 634 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 6: And then I spent really good time with Jim McKay 635 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 6: when he came back and did his last Olympics in 636 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:37,800 Speaker 6: Salt Lake in two thousand and two. Then I spent 637 00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 6: a lot of time with John Madden when he came 638 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 6: over to NBC for Sunday Night Football. And you know, 639 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 6: there was a core group of us who just had 640 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,680 Speaker 6: a blast building those early days of Sunday Night Football 641 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:53,160 Speaker 6: with Dick and John and Al and Frekidelli and Drew Usakoff. 642 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 6: And I would say when I came down move moved 643 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 6: from New York to Florida, Arnold Palmer had founded the 644 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,720 Speaker 6: Off Channel in the early nineties and was still here 645 00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:07,880 Speaker 6: and wasn't really involved with the business that much, but 646 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 6: I went to go see him and really just kind 647 00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 6: of leaned on him as from a history standpoint of 648 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:18,640 Speaker 6: not just that business, but golf on television, which if 649 00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 6: he kind of traced back the history of golf and 650 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 6: the popularity of golf on TV, it was color television, 651 00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 6: the Masters and Arnold Palmer in the early nineteen sixties 652 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:29,880 Speaker 6: that really. 653 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:31,080 Speaker 5: Made golf on TV fly. 654 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,640 Speaker 6: And then so you think about thirty years later, the 655 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 6: guy gets on the front end of cable television and 656 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,560 Speaker 6: creates a twenty four to seven cable channel. 657 00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 5: Dedicated to the game, and he and I had long. 658 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:48,720 Speaker 6: Conversations about the future of golf global, US centric. He 659 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,600 Speaker 6: always told me, he goes, always remember and don't let 660 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,840 Speaker 6: everyone forget that television needs to be at the center 661 00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,479 Speaker 6: of every decision on the future of the business of 662 00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:58,000 Speaker 6: the sport. 663 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 5: Wow, because it was so important in the in the 664 00:33:00,800 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 5: building of it over time. 665 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 6: So look, I was very fortunate to be able to 666 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 6: kind of have these people placed in my life, and 667 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:11,400 Speaker 6: I think at a time in which they were willing 668 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 6: to be patient and give back, which meant, you know, 669 00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:16,760 Speaker 6: they were kind of on the older side of their 670 00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:20,480 Speaker 6: careers and they were in a reflective mindset and wanted 671 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:24,240 Speaker 6: to share, which I was just smart enough to just 672 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:26,160 Speaker 6: kind of shut up and listen as much as I 673 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,040 Speaker 6: possibly could to learn from them. 674 00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:28,400 Speaker 4: Mike. 675 00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 8: I love the great question, though, Alex, because I look, 676 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,920 Speaker 8: I think back on that I made decisions based on 677 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 8: a history and a career of things that I've experienced, 678 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,440 Speaker 8: and a lot of times you don't really know why 679 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,720 Speaker 8: you made the decision, but you think about it later 680 00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,080 Speaker 8: and you say, Okay, I made that decision because of X, 681 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,560 Speaker 8: Y and Z things that I know I saw. 682 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 5: In my past. 683 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 4: Yeah. 684 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: Look, I'm obsessed with this because I didn't have the 685 00:33:51,560 --> 00:33:54,600 Speaker 1: regular you know, go through college. But I guess for 686 00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: Jason and I and our listeners, can you maybe share 687 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: one or two nuggets for each one of those guys 688 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 1: that you learned that you still live with, and especially 689 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:04,880 Speaker 1: a guy like you know, John Madden. 690 00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:10,359 Speaker 6: Yeah, I say with coach Madden and Arnold both were 691 00:34:10,640 --> 00:34:14,200 Speaker 6: so genuine and it was amazing just to kind of 692 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:19,440 Speaker 6: see how they treated people and how that persona over 693 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,920 Speaker 6: time that was just them. They were so genuine and 694 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,480 Speaker 6: just kind of both this just man of the people 695 00:34:25,960 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 6: approached that everyone identified with. And they were really savvy 696 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,319 Speaker 6: business people, but they saw a good idea or they 697 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 6: saw you know, something and they just knew that was 698 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:37,640 Speaker 6: the right thing to do and they went after it, 699 00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,960 Speaker 6: you know, and there wasn't a whole lot of strategy sessions. 700 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:43,399 Speaker 5: It was more just a lot of gut and I. 701 00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 6: Think this is the right thing to do, for the 702 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 6: right reason and with the right people, and so we're going. 703 00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 5: To do it. 704 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 3: It's interesting to think about those two guys, especially the 705 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:56,520 Speaker 3: way that you framed them, Mike, I had never heard 706 00:34:56,560 --> 00:35:00,439 Speaker 3: that about Arnold palmer fit and it. If I knew 707 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,399 Speaker 3: that he had started the golf channel, I'd forgotten. That's 708 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:07,120 Speaker 3: such a fascinating idea of him putting television at the 709 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 3: center of the game, because that is not intuitive, that's 710 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,439 Speaker 3: not an obvious insight, to be honest. So you think 711 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 3: about that, and then you think about John Madden almost 712 00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 3: single handedly revolutionizing football and television, you know, changing the 713 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:25,479 Speaker 3: style in which the content is delivered, et cetera. Talk 714 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:29,680 Speaker 3: to us about how not just those guys, but your 715 00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:34,680 Speaker 3: whole career at NBC has influenced the television product for TGL, 716 00:35:34,840 --> 00:35:38,799 Speaker 3: which I mean essentral to its success. How are you 717 00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 3: thinking about it now? What are the early takeaways as 718 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:43,320 Speaker 3: you sort of moved through this first season. 719 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think part of it is I kind of 720 00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:47,640 Speaker 5: thought about in my career. 721 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,839 Speaker 6: Two big things at NBC that weren't golf for the Olympics, 722 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 6: and so did I football. And you work for four 723 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,319 Speaker 6: years and you know, the day of the opening ceremony, 724 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 6: you've got all of these things that you want to 725 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:04,160 Speaker 6: get done by that date. You know, much like the 726 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 6: athletes are preparing to get everything done by that competition, 727 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 6: and they got to be all. You know, they have 728 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 6: to peak for that competition. And if you don't get 729 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:15,320 Speaker 6: it done, you're you're waiting four years to try it again. 730 00:36:15,880 --> 00:36:19,080 Speaker 7: And then you juxtapose that with a property like Sunday 731 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,759 Speaker 7: Night Football, and you. 732 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:26,040 Speaker 6: Can make improvements every single week. You know, some of 733 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 6: them are big, some of them minute. But over the 734 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 6: course of a season, the first week products compared to 735 00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:37,080 Speaker 6: the last week's product better damn well, be a lot better. 736 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:38,880 Speaker 6: And you make a lot of changes and a lot 737 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 6: of improvements because of it. 738 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 7: So I with TGL, you know, we had one chance 739 00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,239 Speaker 7: to launch as as good and as big as you 740 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 7: possibly can. 741 00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,359 Speaker 6: You know, check we did that. And you know, we're 742 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,280 Speaker 6: creating a version of a sport. You know, we're basically 743 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:57,800 Speaker 6: from scratch trying to appeal to everything that a consumer 744 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 6: in twenty twenty five would want to latch onto and 745 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 6: then our job and I preach this to our team 746 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,799 Speaker 6: every week is continual improvement, every single week, and it 747 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,680 Speaker 6: doesn't matter what area it is, necessarily every area needs 748 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 6: to be improving. I found this kind of concept that 749 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 6: if you're not changing something, you're choosing. 750 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:22,400 Speaker 5: That this is good enough. 751 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,080 Speaker 6: And I don't think any of us are ever signing 752 00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,120 Speaker 6: up to be any anything we ever do any day 753 00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 6: that's good enough. You always want to be able to 754 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,920 Speaker 6: make it better. And if you're not seeing things that 755 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:36,480 Speaker 6: can make it better, you're probably not. 756 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 5: Doing your job. 757 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 2: Wow. 758 00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 3: One of the interesting things that I saw and are 759 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:43,440 Speaker 3: as we were sort of pulling together. 760 00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:44,959 Speaker 2: You know what's going on with you guys. 761 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,200 Speaker 3: You're bringing down that the median age viewer is sort 762 00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,600 Speaker 3: of coming down for golf, which is kind of key. 763 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:52,080 Speaker 2: I say this as a. 764 00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:56,120 Speaker 3: Definitively middle aged white man, I'm sort of the target audience. 765 00:37:56,360 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 3: But what you really want is like my kids, my 766 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 3: college age kids watching this, So how do you continue 767 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:03,520 Speaker 3: to do that? 768 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 2: And also, you know, you mentioned something that I. 769 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 3: Wanted to sort of double tap on, as Alex says, 770 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 3: which is this notion of finding the right windows in 771 00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 3: which to put it on both seasonally but even like 772 00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:20,239 Speaker 3: day of the week. It feels like that has been 773 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,520 Speaker 3: very deliberate. So talk to us a little bit about that. 774 00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 6: Yeah, Look, the youth movement was really important, and it's 775 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,200 Speaker 6: something that we knew. 776 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,759 Speaker 5: We could put together a lot of. 777 00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 6: The concepts and ideas that we either knew or thought 778 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 6: would translate into a younger audience. But you don't really 779 00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:46,120 Speaker 6: know if you're going to get a younger audience until 780 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 6: you actually see the data after you put your first 781 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:56,160 Speaker 6: few competitions on. And frankly, we were surprised at how 782 00:38:56,239 --> 00:38:58,719 Speaker 6: young it was, and I was surprised at how young 783 00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,120 Speaker 6: it got as fast as it did. It was almost immediately, 784 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:07,200 Speaker 6: you know, first first night, fifty two years old median age, 785 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 6: which is on par with the NBA, which Alex knows 786 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:14,240 Speaker 6: is one of the youngest sports, really the youngest major 787 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:18,759 Speaker 6: American sport on television. And then a large percentage, you know, 788 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 6: on par with the NBA as well, was in that 789 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 6: advertiser coveted eighteen to forty nine year old demographic. And 790 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:26,600 Speaker 6: the reason why we say it that way is is 791 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:29,319 Speaker 6: that's what advertisers are buying. They're buying that eighteen to 792 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:32,799 Speaker 6: forty nine with disposal income and spending habits that'll be 793 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,640 Speaker 6: kind to prove out lifetime value. Frankly, it's about a 794 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,399 Speaker 6: dozen years younger than traditional golf. Which that was one 795 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,760 Speaker 6: of the conversations that I had with with Jay Monahan 796 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,520 Speaker 6: when I went and talked to him about doing this 797 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 6: in partnership with the PGA Tour, is if we do 798 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,799 Speaker 6: this right, you know, there will be younger fans who 799 00:39:51,800 --> 00:39:55,880 Speaker 6: will get introduced to a player on primetime watching TGL 800 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:58,719 Speaker 6: on ESPN, and then that same player will be on 801 00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 6: the leader board that's that today or Sunday on CBS 802 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:04,880 Speaker 6: or NBC, and that fan that saw them on Monday 803 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 6: or Tuesday night in primetime will follow that player because 804 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,080 Speaker 6: they're going to get a sense of the personality and 805 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 6: something in this new environment where they're micd up and 806 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,440 Speaker 6: you hear from them all for two hours straight. 807 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:18,520 Speaker 5: And we'll find new fans that way. 808 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:20,839 Speaker 6: And I think the reality is, if you look at 809 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,280 Speaker 6: the demographic data, we are finding new fans, especially young fans, 810 00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:28,720 Speaker 6: and we're hearing anecdotally a lot of families are watching together, 811 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:30,360 Speaker 6: which is great. I mean that kind of gets you 812 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:33,800 Speaker 6: back to you people watching on whatever streen is available 813 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:35,400 Speaker 6: to them at the time. But the idea of a 814 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:39,040 Speaker 6: family sitting around watching a sports competition of any sort, 815 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 6: I think is something that we can all get on it. 816 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 2: So what's the next big step forward? 817 00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 3: Like, what is the thing that you're going to come 818 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 3: out of this season looking to next season? Give us 819 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:52,279 Speaker 3: this a preview of something you've seen that you're like, 820 00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 3: all right, we need to like level this up, or 821 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,440 Speaker 3: we need to do this differently. Like what jumps out 822 00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 3: as one of the biggest learnings here. 823 00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,440 Speaker 6: Well, we got two weeks left for the playoffs, so 824 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 6: we want to make sure we continue to focus on that. 825 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,399 Speaker 6: We are getting a lot of interest from a lot 826 00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,840 Speaker 6: of different sports team owners on expansion, and that's something 827 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:13,440 Speaker 6: that we're looking at seriously. 828 00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:14,080 Speaker 3: Now. 829 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 6: We're looking at a potential venue on the West Coast 830 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,080 Speaker 6: just to make the schedule easier for players. And then 831 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,399 Speaker 6: I think there's a lot of little things talking about 832 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:28,200 Speaker 6: that continual improvement. About eight months ago, I told everyone 833 00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 6: on our team start your season two lists now, because 834 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:33,239 Speaker 6: there's going to be a period of time where we 835 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,680 Speaker 6: can't make big changes for season one. 836 00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 5: But you want to make sure that you make those 837 00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:38,440 Speaker 5: for season two. 838 00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 6: So I think you know elements of which holes resonated, 839 00:41:43,480 --> 00:41:48,000 Speaker 6: what type of holes resonated with fans, what technology really worked, 840 00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,960 Speaker 6: What are some of the things that the tech shows 841 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:53,520 Speaker 6: that we could do more of, just based on the 842 00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 6: fan feedback? And I think, frankly, we are able to 843 00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 6: hear from fans and get feedback from fans in this 844 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,400 Speaker 6: day and age more than you ever have before. So 845 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:07,480 Speaker 6: hearing them and then putting these things into play, some 846 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,280 Speaker 6: of them we can do, and we've done this season, 847 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:11,440 Speaker 6: but you know a lot of that you'll have to 848 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:14,200 Speaker 6: do a year later because it does take more R 849 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 6: and D construction, et cetera. 850 00:42:16,160 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 5: You know, more tech. 851 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:26,879 Speaker 3: Work, right right? That sounds great? All right, so let's 852 00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:28,960 Speaker 3: do the lightning ground. It's five questions. We'll bounce it 853 00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,879 Speaker 3: back and forth, keep it tight, and we'll jump right in. 854 00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:35,040 Speaker 3: What's the best piece of advice you've received on deal 855 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:35,880 Speaker 3: making your business? 856 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:38,600 Speaker 5: Say? Please, say thank you. 857 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,960 Speaker 4: Who's your dream deal making partner? 858 00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:43,080 Speaker 1: Man? 859 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 5: We got a lot of really good ones. 860 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:47,480 Speaker 6: I A would say the team owners that we have 861 00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,560 Speaker 6: around the table right now, for a lot of different reasons, 862 00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,399 Speaker 6: they all bring something to the table for us. 863 00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:55,680 Speaker 2: That's a pretty good lineup. What's the most nervous you've ever. 864 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 5: Been asking my wife to marry me? 865 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,520 Speaker 1: I assume she said, yes, you have kids favorite hype 866 00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:06,960 Speaker 1: song before you go into a big meeting or a 867 00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,960 Speaker 1: big negotiation or proposal. 868 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:09,600 Speaker 2: I guess I. 869 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:13,400 Speaker 6: Grew up in Memphis, so I got a lot of 870 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 6: music in my background. 871 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 7: Is there anything that kind of puts me back near 872 00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,200 Speaker 7: my roots? I would say, is probably the right the 873 00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,400 Speaker 7: right vein we need, We need. 874 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,760 Speaker 3: A song, Give me a song, so like bb King 875 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:27,040 Speaker 3: or Elvis Presley like that sort of. 876 00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:29,880 Speaker 7: I would go with some old blues or you know, 877 00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,160 Speaker 7: something with some some big bass in it. 878 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,120 Speaker 5: I'm a big Rolling Stones fan, so you okay, I 879 00:43:35,160 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 5: can hit a lot of Stones as well. 880 00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:37,680 Speaker 2: All right? That sounds good? 881 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 5: All right? 882 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:40,799 Speaker 3: And what's your advice for someone listening who wants a 883 00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:41,920 Speaker 3: career like yours? 884 00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:46,160 Speaker 6: You gotta work hard, you know, just start working, show 885 00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:50,000 Speaker 6: up early, stay late. There is no job that should 886 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,440 Speaker 6: be beneath you. You can get experience and learn something 887 00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:56,759 Speaker 6: from pretty much anything that you're asked to do. You 888 00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:58,840 Speaker 6: just got to be there and start start rolling up 889 00:43:58,880 --> 00:43:59,799 Speaker 6: your slaves and do the work. 890 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:06,360 Speaker 3: All right, well, Mike McCarley, congratulations on season one of TGL. 891 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,520 Speaker 3: It's been really fun to watch. I know Alex and 892 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,719 Speaker 3: I are eager to come see it live, so if 893 00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 3: not this season next and again, best of luck as 894 00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:18,120 Speaker 3: this goes on, you know, and hopefully you know, we'll 895 00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:19,200 Speaker 3: become good enough. 896 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,160 Speaker 2: Golfers that you know you'll hang out with us. At 897 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:21,600 Speaker 2: some point. 898 00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:22,560 Speaker 5: We have nets to. 899 00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,600 Speaker 6: Cover up the led, so you guys are invited time 900 00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:27,880 Speaker 6: to watch the match and we'll get you to hit 901 00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,080 Speaker 6: some shots. 902 00:44:29,760 --> 00:44:32,680 Speaker 5: Thanks Mike, Bye bye, thank you. 903 00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,040 Speaker 3: The Deal is hosted by Alex Rodriguez and me Jason Kelly. 904 00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 3: This episode was made by Annamazarakus, Stacey Wong, and Lizzie Phillip. 905 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:51,000 Speaker 3: Amy Keene is our editor. Our theme music is made 906 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,800 Speaker 3: by Blake Maples. Our executive producers are Kelly Leferrier, Ashley Honig, 907 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,280 Speaker 3: and Brenda Newnham. Sainte Bauman is the head of Bloomberg Podcasts. 908 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,360 Speaker 3: Support from Rachel Carnivale and Elena Los Angeles. Thanks so 909 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,320 Speaker 3: much for listening to the Deal. If you have a minute, subscribe, 910 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,680 Speaker 3: rate and review our show. It'll help other listeners find us. 911 00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 3: I'm Jason Kelly, see you next week.