1 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast. I am 2 00:00:07,040 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: and Y s Wellives. The NFL Draft is right around 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: the corner the day. We're talking about the honor of 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: being selected in the first round. It's round I wish 5 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: I was drafted in. It's the great Rod Woodson, uh, 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:21,919 Speaker 1: one of the guys that I looked up to. And 7 00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 1: then I have Jack Action Jackson action hero Stephen Jackson 8 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: out of Oregon State University, who was the first round 9 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 1: pick of the Rims in two thousand and four. Also 10 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: ride Congratulations hundred anniversary team. I appreciate it. That's huge, right, huge? 11 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: Can't even imagine that a hundred years and you being 12 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 1: I want to start there, right, how did you feel 13 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,519 Speaker 1: when you got that call? I go back to the 14 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: very first time when I got the seventy anniversary. It's 15 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: like social real. I'm like, you know, do I really 16 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: deserve it? Do not? You know? Who doing along in 17 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: that conversation of the greats, And I still see myself 18 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 1: as a country board from me Indianta. I started playing 19 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: football because my little brother started playing football. I'm the 20 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: youngest of three boys, and I'm like, I wanted to 21 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: play because they was playing and that's where I picked 22 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 1: the game up. And it's led from one thing to 23 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: the next that it's kept getting a little bit better 24 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: as I kept getting older, and you know, and then 25 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:18,800 Speaker 1: you know, being getting the red coat, you know, being 26 00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: the center sentential, the centennial team. It is, it's it's 27 00:01:23,280 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: you know, um, it's kind of like the Hall of Famers, 28 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: of the Hall of Famers. I mean, even though I 29 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: don't know if you can really say that, but you know, um, 30 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's one of those moments again where 31 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: it's kind of social real where they think that you're 32 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: one of the best players of the first hundred years 33 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 1: or pro football, which you know, to me is you know, 34 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: I accept the honor. I don't know if I deserve it, 35 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: but I accept the honor. So everybody talks about being 36 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 1: a first round pick, but what are the things no 37 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 1: one talks about. What are the expectations, Stephen Big, You 38 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:59,559 Speaker 1: know the expectations at that time, oh four, everybody wanted 39 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 1: to top two in right the the moneyball kind of 40 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: picked selection. And I remember I came out of the 41 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 1: junior I was unsure if I was going to come out. 42 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,480 Speaker 1: I was really dead set on finishing my degree early, 43 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 1: you know that December in the next year. But then 44 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: I had a chance of play in the Los Vegas 45 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 1: Bowl and that Oregon State. We wasn't gonna compete for 46 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: a national championship, no disrespect. I had a realistic expectations 47 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 1: and we played in Los Vegas Bowl, which is my hometown, 48 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: and I had I went on a tear that night 49 00:02:29,440 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: and I was just remember, I was like, if I'm 50 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,399 Speaker 1: not going to win a national championship, what a better 51 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,480 Speaker 1: way than you know, in my amateur career in front 52 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: of my hometown wasn't gonna at the time. It wasn't 53 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:41,079 Speaker 1: the Los Vegas Writer, right, So I wasn't gonna be 54 00:02:41,080 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 1: able to play in front of them again like that, 55 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: And I just felt like it was one of those opportunities, right. 56 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: That's when the word opportunities started really revealing itself to 57 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,280 Speaker 1: me and just stepping out on faith. What about you 58 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: rock expectations? First round pick pitch for Steelers already winning well, 59 00:02:59,800 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: they one, I mean there's still Curt and they were 60 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: winning Super Bowls before that, you know, years before that. 61 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 1: So back in eighty seven, they weren't that good. I 62 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 1: mean for my first year we were six and ten. 63 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 1: But to get back to your question, is you know 64 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 1: I didn't you know? We we knew there's gonna be 65 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,760 Speaker 1: a lockout in seven knew it, So we knew it. 66 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:19,760 Speaker 1: I mean, well, at least my agent knew it, which 67 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: is Marvin coming into getting drafted. So yeah, so coming 68 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: into the whole process, we're like, listen, you're gonna get drafted. 69 00:03:26,200 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 1: It's gonna be a lockout. You know, if you want 70 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: to sign, that's going to be up to you, you know. 71 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,360 Speaker 1: And so once the you know, at the end of 72 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: my college career, I started running track. I got started 73 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,720 Speaker 1: running up for due left. I went to l A 74 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: to start training um to really run because they said 75 00:03:48,360 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: there's gonna be a lock and I'm like, well, it's 76 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: gonna be a lockout, then I'm just gonna do what 77 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:52,600 Speaker 1: I love to do. I've been running tracks even nine 78 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 1: years old or twelve years old for AU, So I'm 79 00:03:56,200 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: gonna start doing something I love and I'm find a 80 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: real good hurling coach, and I did. I went out 81 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: to l A. I found a guy named Chuck Devis, 82 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 1: and my time went from a thirteen six to a 83 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:11,280 Speaker 1: thirteen to two in four weeks, you know. So it's 84 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: so I was like, you know, I was still waiting 85 00:04:13,800 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 1: to see what happened. H Then the draft comes around 86 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: after a little while, and you know, not thinking the 87 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 1: Steelers are gonna draft me. I never even talked to 88 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,279 Speaker 1: the Steelers. That was the first Remember that was the 89 00:04:25,320 --> 00:04:28,960 Speaker 1: first year a Plan B player got got traded. Was 90 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: the Chip Banks who went to the Chargers. Then they 91 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: then Cleveland's there and they get um junk In the 92 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: linebacker from Duke and so I kind of fall down 93 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: the board a little bit, which was great for me. Um, 94 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: not knowing I'm gonna go to Pittsburgh because the the 95 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:51,760 Speaker 1: Saints called me at number eleven, said my hometown team 96 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:53,720 Speaker 1: says called. They're like, we're in a draft. He was 97 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: on the board. I'm like, I'll be a Saint, all right. 98 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: And then at ten, uh, Jim Boston called me on 99 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: the Phone's like, you know, Pittsburgh Steelers wanted we went 100 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 1: over you. You'll be want to be a Steeler. I'm like, shoot, yeah, 101 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,719 Speaker 1: I'll be a Steeler. So I mean, but expectations, I 102 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,840 Speaker 1: didn't have any. You know, I didn't have any honestly, Um, 103 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: you know, I knew this. I knew wo the Steelers were. Um, 104 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: I knew you know the history of how good they were. Uh, 105 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,200 Speaker 1: you know, I knew they had mel Blunt and you 106 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: know the you know, the rule changes because of man 107 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 1: University of mel Blount. One of the biggest corners. He 108 00:05:34,640 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: might be the biggest corner you can play. I do 109 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 1: this huge, So you know, I know the history of 110 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 1: what they what they were. Um. And then being around 111 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 1: Chuck Nol his last five years, so you know, I 112 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: knew the expectations of what he had. UM, I knew 113 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: what he want to get back to. So you know, 114 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:55,919 Speaker 1: I just wanted to try to be a part of 115 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,240 Speaker 1: in any capacity that could. DV coach was my DV 116 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: coach was Tony Don't you coach? He was our DV 117 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: coach and our defense coordinator that he coach man a 118 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: Senior Bowl. He was on the Kansas City staff. Was 119 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:16,240 Speaker 1: a black coach. Right. Pressure, what's the pressure like being 120 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: number one and you gotta rush wash your faults. You're 121 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: coming in and now they drafted Stephen. What was that like? Yeah, 122 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 1: so kind of like going back in the story about 123 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: you know, the first round expectations. You know, you come 124 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: out as a kid. You have these extra tels, you 125 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,320 Speaker 1: you have these wants, and then you slide right, So 126 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 1: I slide in the first round, and then you get 127 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,600 Speaker 1: the phone call from the St. Louis Rams at the time, 128 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: and obviously you have you have Rush, you have Marshall 129 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: Faults there in front of and then not only did 130 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: you slide, but then you're going back up of Hall 131 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,040 Speaker 1: of Famer and you're like, what is going on? And 132 00:06:49,279 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 1: you're like looking at the sky like I just didn't. 133 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 1: I didn't see the puzzles of the pieces of the 134 00:06:56,360 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: puzzle coming together. So the chess man, you're not figuring 135 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: this out. I have one figuring that out at the time. 136 00:07:03,279 --> 00:07:06,479 Speaker 1: And then um to your point where you know, I 137 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:09,159 Speaker 1: get there and I walked into a huddle, you know, 138 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: hall of Famers on the no pace. You know you 139 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,480 Speaker 1: have Tori, Isaac Bruce, you have Tori Hold, you have 140 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: all these guys. And I didn't. I didn't see the 141 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: blessing at first. But then I sat back and I 142 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: had let me step back a little bit. In the story. 143 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: I walked into the and into the locker room, and 144 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 1: I'm going in between you and Rush right right. So 145 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: I'm sitting between you two and obviously know know the 146 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: career you guys both have. And that's when I realized, 147 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:36,640 Speaker 1: I said, just be quiet and watched this is this 148 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,440 Speaker 1: is that red shirt year for you, you know, and 149 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: if you think about going top ten, typically those are 150 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: bad teams, correct. And the leadership that you guys set 151 00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: for me in that that year, in that locker room, 152 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: I think set me on the path to have a 153 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: twelve year career because I saw the work at it. 154 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: I saw you running your your gasser is between offensive 155 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,160 Speaker 1: defense upsets, you know. I saw the way Marshall used 156 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 1: told watch film. I saw the way he make sure 157 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: that the route tree was ran out the backfield like 158 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: it was a receiver. The things that I didn't realize 159 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: it was important in the game, especially as a running back. 160 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: I just thought was just giving the ball and run 161 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: and right, especially at my side right, you're like out 162 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: the way right. But to see that example, Wow, the 163 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,080 Speaker 1: intentional work put in behind the scenes, I think it 164 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:27,640 Speaker 1: was just a blessing rod. You were drafted after Jerome Brown. 165 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:31,120 Speaker 1: Some of these young guys don't know who Jerome Brown was. 166 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: What was that? Like? I mean, you know Drome was 167 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,120 Speaker 1: a player you know, come out of college and universal 168 00:08:38,160 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: mimie he's now decease. Guys may not know, and uh, 169 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: you know, so you know, just you know, in our 170 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: draft class was a pretty good draft class. And then 171 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 1: when I go to the Steelers, we had her. That 172 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: eighty seven draft of the Steelers was a really good 173 00:08:53,080 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: Draftel Cornel came the following year, but we had myself. Um. 174 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 1: Another defensive back was Dalton Hall from Clemson. Thomas Everett 175 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 1: from Baylor who was the first Heisman He was the 176 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: first Gym Thorpe Award winner in the history of that 177 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: award from Baylor. He was one of the draftees, Greg Lloyd, 178 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:20,480 Speaker 1: Merril Hodge, uh, Gerald Williams. I mean our guys Locket, 179 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: Charles Lockett. We had a lot of guys that played 180 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: double digit years in the National Football League on that draft, 181 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 1: and uh, you know back then it was twelve rounds 182 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,200 Speaker 1: back then, so you know you're talking about you know, 183 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: not really knowing. I was at home, sitting at home, 184 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: uh and four win Indiana and got the call. Didn't 185 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: sign my contract until October that year. I only played 186 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 1: six games that year in my rookie year. Um, my 187 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,960 Speaker 1: first game I played I was. I played safety, so 188 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: it's like, you know, Dwayne Woodruff, he was a corner. Uh, 189 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: Dealton was already playing Lupie Sanchez from U C. L A. 190 00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: He was playing already loop He was a good player. 191 00:10:03,000 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 1: So they had all their positions. So here they were 192 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 1: trying to find ways to get me on the field. 193 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: They put me at safety in a nickel package. Uh. 194 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: They played me at linebacker because I was I was 195 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: you know, I played safety in college, so when I 196 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 1: came to to Pittsburgh, I was probably you know, to 197 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: fifteen when I was running track. So they put me 198 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 1: a linebacker package, which was probably not the smartest thing 199 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: to do. They saw me in line like check check. 200 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: I was like, oh my god. I mean the first 201 00:10:35,920 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: time I had to do it, I was like, man, 202 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,120 Speaker 1: I don't know about I don't know about playing down 203 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: in there. Now this is this I want to go 204 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 1: back a little further. But you know, Chuck is just 205 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: trying to find ways to give me on the field. 206 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: And then I knew the expectations because the culture and 207 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:51,559 Speaker 1: the buildings about winning. When you first walked into the building, 208 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: there was three Super Bowl trophies sitting right there, and 209 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 1: they were like, okay, well, and then you know Rocky 210 00:10:57,320 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: bly Me and John Green was are deefen our back 211 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 1: up excuse me, different light coach. So me, Joe Green 212 00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:05,440 Speaker 1: was in the building every single day. Mail always was 213 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:07,679 Speaker 1: in the building. Rock and Bliro would come into building. 214 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: You know, these legends, these are Donnie, Donnie Shell was 215 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: still there, Mike Webster was still there in Stalwarts was 216 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: still there. So I got to play with those guys. 217 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: Donnie was my roommate my rookie year, so we you know, 218 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: every home game, which was only three for me. Um, 219 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: you know, I got to be with him in the room. 220 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:31,000 Speaker 1: Shout out to do who just got into the thing. 221 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: What what Donnie did for me is that he just 222 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 1: gave me like I understand that what a pro looks like. 223 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,079 Speaker 1: And I was a knuckle head kid from forward. In 224 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:41,840 Speaker 1: the end, I just played football. And I was kind 225 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 1: of stupid. I didn't listen to a lot of people. 226 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 1: I was kind of hard. I was a hot head. 227 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: You said something to me, I'd be like, okay, say 228 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: it again, you know, and then Donnie's like, hey, this beer, 229 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: pro do the right thing. Always be on time, you 230 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: know this everything that you're asked to do, just do 231 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: it without questions. And then at first I didn't understanding 232 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: why he was there. But after he left in the 233 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 1: years you know, proceding that, I was like, Okay, that's 234 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,080 Speaker 1: what he's talking about. Dwayne Woodruff, who was a great 235 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:10,719 Speaker 1: you know, he played for quite a long time for 236 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: for the Steelers out of Louisville. He was he was. 237 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: I played four years or three years with Dwayne, and 238 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 1: Dwayne was the same type of guy. He was just 239 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: always doing the right thing. I mean, he's a judge 240 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: now in Pittsburgh, so um, I had that mentorship. He's 241 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: a judger, So I had a mentorship outside. I'd be 242 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: with having Tony there who was teaching me how to 243 00:12:32,440 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: play the game at the cornerback position. But then I 244 00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: had some good mentors about being met a man outside 245 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: of football. You asked Action Jackson. You mentioned already the 246 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: players today, you don't see players planning as along, right, 247 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: So what was it like in what a potentially today's 248 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,480 Speaker 1: players are missing when it comes down to coming into 249 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: that locker room, as you talked about Rod, with those 250 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: veterans that are there, what are they're missing? What are 251 00:13:01,960 --> 00:13:05,480 Speaker 1: they missing? Yes, the wisdom, the wisdom I believe you know, 252 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: there's some things the nuances of the game, you just 253 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 1: don't get them. The ex of those on even in 254 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: the film, and you know, you're just talking about coming 255 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,440 Speaker 1: up with a sweep pattern, right, the things you don't 256 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: think about as a young warrior. You just think you're invisible, 257 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 1: especially you know, early twenties. And then to continue to 258 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: try to burn the camera on both ends if you 259 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:25,959 Speaker 1: don't have somebody to sit you down and explaining that 260 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: all that effectual performance. Because when you start talking to 261 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,680 Speaker 1: guys about performing and you know, leaving a legacy for 262 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: themselves and being proud of, you know, the things they've accomplished, 263 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 1: you you're triggering them in a different way and say, 264 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 1: you know, and and that's what I was saying from 265 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,120 Speaker 1: you guys. The example you guys are doing, eating't clean. 266 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:45,040 Speaker 1: I didn't know what a portion size was, you know, 267 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 1: all those little things right Like, I'm like, what is 268 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 1: that three ships are baking? I'm not not even the 269 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: whole plate, you know. I'm like, So it's like the 270 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,720 Speaker 1: little nuances of that on top of how to conduct 271 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 1: yoursel from the interview, I was, I was a guy 272 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: that I was seven years old. I had incident at 273 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: the Boys and Girls Club, right, so baseball diamond field. 274 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,839 Speaker 1: The line drive didn't catch the glove and caught my face, right, 275 00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: And from that I became like really conscious of my 276 00:14:18,280 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: my face and things like that because I had to 277 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,800 Speaker 1: have reconstructive surgery. So that put me in a show. 278 00:14:22,840 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: Let's send me back as a kid. So then you 279 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: get on this big stage and I don't have any 280 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:29,800 Speaker 1: media training. Nobody's you know, they know I had that 281 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: in my history, you know that trauma, and I didn't know. 282 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: I didn't know the power of media at the time. 283 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: When I walked into the NFL in the locker room, 284 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 1: I was just I was really comfortable just putting on 285 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,200 Speaker 1: that helme and it running hard and figure that if 286 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: you love the game, I will hope you appreciate the 287 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: way I played the game. But far as being on 288 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: the platform and using it to the level that I 289 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: know I'm capable of, now, that was not a thought, 290 00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 1: you know, fifteen sixteen years ago. So being these young 291 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: guys now, if you don't have a veteran that's not 292 00:14:57,880 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: only sets a good example, but willing to share that 293 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: now as you'll miss it. You can still miss it today. 294 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: What about you, rodd is very little Internet. Back back 295 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: then there was dolls and most people don't know what 296 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: dolls is. It was the backside pro cube anyway. But um, 297 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,800 Speaker 1: I mean for me, you know, it was. Um. I 298 00:15:23,840 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: think what what's missing when you don't have vets is 299 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 1: that you do miss that leadership. And when I came in, 300 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: you had to be really good rookie to make the squad, 301 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: and today you've got to be a really good veteran 302 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 1: to make the squad. That's a difference. Back then, our 303 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: backups were five years, six year players who are vets, 304 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: who understood, who played all the special teams, and there 305 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: are backups at position. So if your guys got hurt, 306 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:50,800 Speaker 1: you had a veteran guy who can play and step 307 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 1: in who played before. Well, now it's they're all they're 308 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: all rookies that are backups in the National Football League. 309 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,000 Speaker 1: And I think what's missing is that, you know, I know, 310 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: for at least for me, um, what I was given 311 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: from my veteran guys when I first got there. As 312 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: I got older and moved to different teams, I felt 313 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:13,440 Speaker 1: it like when I went to Baltimore. You know, uh, 314 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: ray Lewis was a baby. Ray was the third year. 315 00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: And you know how locker rooms work, right, were locker 316 00:16:18,920 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 1: rooms you always sit with your group. I didn't sit 317 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: with the dbs. They sent me with the linebackers. They 318 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: sent me in between Ray Lewis and Peter Boware. I'm like, well, 319 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: I guess I'm talking to Ray and Peter. Uh. And 320 00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 1: then I just befriended Ray and Peter. We talked every 321 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: single day. It's about being a man, doing what's right, 322 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 1: you know, showing up on time, being courteous to people. 323 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: So all the little things that was given to me. 324 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: I think that's missing in the National Football League because 325 00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 1: you don't have those that sprinkled in. Yes, now, the 326 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,960 Speaker 1: teams that are really good, they have a culture, and 327 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: they do have vets sprinkled in, and they have leaders. 328 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: The teams that kind of fall apart throughout the years, um, 329 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,960 Speaker 1: they don't. They're young in their locker room. And you 330 00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: know what I tell guys all the time is that 331 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: until you buy, until you take ownership of what is yours, 332 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: which is the team as players, your team is never 333 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: gonna win a Super Bowl. You'll never be successful. So 334 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: I mean the coaches, if the coach is always the 335 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,240 Speaker 1: the one person everybody's always talking about, and he's the leader, 336 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: he's the he's the face of the team, he's the 337 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: face of the franchise in outside of you know, like 338 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: Bill Belichick, normally your team is not winning a lot 339 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 1: of football games because you gotta find leaders in the 340 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,439 Speaker 1: locker room. Who's going to take ownership? Yeah, it's you know, 341 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:46,000 Speaker 1: if you know, taking ownership is if you're if a 342 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:48,200 Speaker 1: guy in your team is saying something to the media 343 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: or did something inside the locker room, you're gonna go 344 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: to him and say, hey, man, you shouldn't be doing that, 345 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 1: you know, back in the old school way, and be like, 346 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: o hey, hey, you shouldn't be doing that. That's our 347 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:01,199 Speaker 1: first warning to do it again. They're gonna come back 348 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:03,000 Speaker 1: and say, if you do that one more time, you're 349 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: really gonna have an issue with everybody in this locker room. 350 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: They don't do that well, first of all, you don't 351 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:09,959 Speaker 1: have the vets in the locker room to do it. 352 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: But the teams who do still have that vet and 353 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:17,040 Speaker 1: have that culture inside of their building. Those teams are 354 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: still successful today. You know. It's just I feel for 355 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: the younger guys who don't have a veteran to lean 356 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: on to get knowledge, to gain knowledge, to talk to. 357 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:33,119 Speaker 1: The coaches are younger, the players are younger, and I'm like, 358 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: where do they get their wisdom? Where do they get 359 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: their vice from? Where do they turn each other? And 360 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 1: when they turn each other, they still are all trying 361 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:46,840 Speaker 1: to learn it together. Learn together, which is not a 362 00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: bad thing. It's not a bad thing because we have 363 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: five rookies and our secondary we had three drafted to 364 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: holdovers from the from the the scab team, so to speak. 365 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 1: So we have five rookies and we learn how when 366 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:02,800 Speaker 1: we were getting beat we did. We're like, okay, we 367 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: can't do that anymore, you know. So we we learned 368 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: and we grew together, so that can happen from our 369 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: own experience. So that can happen. That takes a while. 370 00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: But we still had I still had Woodruff and Donnie 371 00:19:14,400 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: Chall and we still had those guys coming in like 372 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,800 Speaker 1: mel Blunt. He came and locked him quite a bit, 373 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: and he invited us out to the ranch. He has 374 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: a ranch out there for for for um boys who 375 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: are get in trouble, correction boys from Instead of going 376 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:30,840 Speaker 1: to jail, they go to the ranch and work the 377 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: ranch for him. So we used to go out there 378 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: and it was eye opening, Like, man, this guy is 379 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,159 Speaker 1: you know, support his whole you know, career into doing 380 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: what's right for young men, and so that that was 381 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: eye opening. So stuff like that, these young kids don't 382 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: get if they don't have those mentors in the locker room, 383 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: which you know, I feel bad for him if they 384 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: don't have it. And actually kind about that wrinkle. You 385 00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: said something that there's there's nothing wrong with having a 386 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:00,959 Speaker 1: young second or young team, but I think free agency 387 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:03,119 Speaker 1: also throws that you sprinkle that in as well. So 388 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: you didn't have a chance of jail those five or 389 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: you know, so it makes it really difficult for these 390 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 1: young guys. Now you were twenty one when you were drafted, 391 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: what were you not ready for it? When you got 392 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 1: to the leak? All that money, just be honest, all 393 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: that money, I'm not sharing anything. That's not like my 394 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,679 Speaker 1: my mom and parents having shared you know, their faith leaders. 395 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:32,119 Speaker 1: My dad was a gambler, you know. I grew up 396 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 1: in those datas. So I recall times in my life 397 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,840 Speaker 1: where I would here my parents having disagreements about you know, 398 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: money and then to have you know, to have that 399 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: dynamic in your household and then to then be thrusted 400 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,960 Speaker 1: with this responsibility of this wealth at that point, like 401 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: who do you turn to? Right, Because the person that 402 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:56,359 Speaker 1: you would probably trust the most, he was he was 403 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: out of that situation, but then he didn't trust itself, 404 00:20:59,040 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: so he didn't want to give me an advice. So 405 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: at that point, there was a man in the church 406 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: that he's now he's my mentor now and he worked 407 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: in Wall Street for a very long time. But my 408 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: parents were small enough to know that they can give 409 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,120 Speaker 1: me that that wisdom I have to you know, handle 410 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:15,520 Speaker 1: them and take care of my and take care of 411 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: my money. So that's when I realized mentorship was really 412 00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: important and going to rob what you were saying. When 413 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,199 Speaker 1: you have these different roles and people that look like 414 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: you and people that you feel like you could trust 415 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: and have these conversations with, um, they don't always come 416 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: in the locker room, right, but they're still hard to find. 417 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: And I think that's what it's important that if you 418 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: find those people in your life that's willing to be 419 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,240 Speaker 1: you know, um, a sounding board or someone to just 420 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:43,159 Speaker 1: to be able to get some of this frustration off 421 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,440 Speaker 1: of you. Because you're young, and not only do you 422 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 1: have the responsibility of trying to provide for yourself and 423 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: your family, but then you have to put on the 424 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:54,840 Speaker 1: face in the public. And the NFL Sundays are great, 425 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: but sometimes Wednesday morning is not, you know, and it's 426 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 1: really if you want to say that and just be real, 427 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:05,000 Speaker 1: you're gonna get seven people saying I switched spots with you. 428 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: And it's not saying that I'm not grateful or I'm 429 00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 1: I'm complaining. It's just I'm human. I'm just trying to 430 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: figure it out. And when you say Wednesday mornings not 431 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 1: necessarily great, what were some of the things you experienced 432 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: on the Wednesday morning that you can share with us 433 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: that made it for you? Love being there. But here's 434 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: attention that I deal with. I think being a big man, 435 00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:30,119 Speaker 1: so a lot of people think you know how you 436 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: can take a lot, and then you don't. They don't 437 00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: think you have feelings, right, So going through the stretch 438 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,159 Speaker 1: and St. Louis, we're a bad team and being a 439 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: bigger guy, you're getting the ball thirty thirty five times 440 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,760 Speaker 1: on Sunday. Then on Wednesday, we had so many different coaches. 441 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,720 Speaker 1: Everybody thought they had to make the team tough because 442 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: you're a bad team. So now on Wednesday morning, I'm 443 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna second year guy, third year guy. Now I'm 444 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: getting live reps in practice. Right, so it's like who 445 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: is my advocate? Like who is going to and I'm 446 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,800 Speaker 1: gonna say something for me? And and you felt this, 447 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: Oh you feel it? Oh yeah, you feel it because 448 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: Wednesday you could barely pick up a cell phone. On 449 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: top of that, this is when we're playing on the 450 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,760 Speaker 1: national turf, you know, Like, so now I'm having another 451 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: I'm having another blow right, So, um, when you on 452 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:21,160 Speaker 1: that Wednesday morning and you don't have you just beat 453 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 1: up and let's just say, you have a gimp in 454 00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 1: your in your stride, and now you have coaches, you know, 455 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: questioning like are you faking it? Are you just trying 456 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: to get out of practice? Or you know, are you're 457 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: not strong enough? You're not tough enough. It's just like, 458 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: so this is mental, it's a mental battle under the 459 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: mental part. I remember Rod and your mental I'm specifically 460 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,800 Speaker 1: I can remember the play when you injure your knee, 461 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: can play opening game Detroit lines. I did something I 462 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,560 Speaker 1: never have done before. I broke open a brand new 463 00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:59,080 Speaker 1: pair of shoes right before the game and did not 464 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 1: wear him prior to that week, and normally I would 465 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,399 Speaker 1: wear them throughout the whole week. And we played on 466 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 1: we played the old asshle turf three of the stadium. 467 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: That stuff was and it was hot. And I put 468 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,919 Speaker 1: the brand new pom was on, which I wore that 469 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: my first three years. And and then I plant Barry 470 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:23,159 Speaker 1: cuts back inside and my foot stays straight and my 471 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: knee turns and my normally, you know, if I'm wearing 472 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,439 Speaker 1: the shoes, my my, my shoe would have turned. I 473 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,600 Speaker 1: would have been fine. But soon as my let my 474 00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: foot planning, and I was like, why did you wear 475 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,760 Speaker 1: those shoes? You stupid guy? And then so it was 476 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 1: to me, it was like I hurt my knee. I'm like, 477 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,400 Speaker 1: woes me? Why I meet I meet the doctor on Monday. 478 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: Doctor said it's gonna be four months, four to six months. 479 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:52,959 Speaker 1: I'm like four months, that's playoffs, a coach, I can 480 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 1: get back for playoffs. I get back to the playoffs. 481 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna heal fast. I'm gonna get back for the playoffs. 482 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: And Bill was one of those guys. He was open. 483 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,920 Speaker 1: He was a player's coach. He listened, and the great 484 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 1: thing is I had Cornel Lako my team, and Carnell 485 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 1: moved from played outside linebacker in college, moved to safety, 486 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,359 Speaker 1: went from safety to the corner and played really well 487 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: that year at corner. And if so, if he wasn't there, 488 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: they would have to put me on ir to bring 489 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,320 Speaker 1: some more guys and just to have the roster spot. 490 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 1: So Carnell moved over. Nobody else got hurt in the secondary. 491 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: Carnell balled out at corner, and they kept that light 492 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: on at the end of the tunnel for me for 493 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: that first year and me being in the Super Bowl 494 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 1: Bill Bill Coward. So they gave me that opportunity. Jackson, 495 00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:48,199 Speaker 1: what didn't we know as a rookie? What did the 496 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 1: veterans maybe not know that what you were experiencing as 497 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: a rookie And at what point did you feel comfortable 498 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:03,159 Speaker 1: sharing what you were going through? What event does that 499 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:07,000 Speaker 1: make sense? Yeah, a little bit, um So as a 500 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:10,640 Speaker 1: rookie you went through you said, in these tensions, right, 501 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: and you're going through it. You're in this locker room, 502 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: you're in between Marshall and I. You got these veterans around, 503 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: But at what point where you comfortable, where you could 504 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: actually share what you're really feeling, like in the locker 505 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: room with a vet to get thoughts or something like that. 506 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:31,480 Speaker 1: I mean, that's a tough question to answer. I was saying, 507 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: when you're walking into the locker room like that, that 508 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,040 Speaker 1: locker room, you guys are rolling right early two thousands, 509 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: you guys were so you're jumping on the movie train, 510 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: you're jumping on the moving trade, and everybody in the 511 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: locker room it's not as nice as new as Williams, right. 512 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: So I would say that, I would say, that's the 513 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: thing I think in the locker room in your first 514 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: round draft pick, when did you feel in that locker 515 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: room that man, some of these cats not nice, right, 516 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,920 Speaker 1: everybody smiling, But you're coming into an environment movie train 517 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: already going. That's some I'm attempting to help the people 518 00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: hear what you were feeling because a lot of times, 519 00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 1: as men, we just deal with it. Right. Um, I 520 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: didn't know what the time to be honest with you. 521 00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: I don't know who to trust in the locker room. 522 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 1: I didn't know if I would sharing something with you. 523 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: Was it going to go to back to the coach. 524 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: It was gonna go upstairs or what I said about 525 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,120 Speaker 1: another teammate that I felt and I was just trying 526 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 1: to figure out that's how he is or not. But 527 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: then he goes back to that person, you know, like 528 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: the gossip. I mean men gossip too, right, So, um, 529 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 1: you mean men gossip, So so let's delete that. So 530 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: trying to figure out not only who I am as 531 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:55,679 Speaker 1: a as a young man in an environment that is 532 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 1: highly a full of high performers, how how do I 533 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: figure out pressure? It was pressure internal. It was an 534 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:08,160 Speaker 1: internal pressure because I always said when Marshall came out 535 00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:10,919 Speaker 1: the field, I did not want anybody in the stadium 536 00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: to know that the difference because that means I didn't 537 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,479 Speaker 1: I'm not doing my job, you know. So that internal 538 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,879 Speaker 1: pressure there just to perform at his level was already peaked. 539 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 1: Was peaked. Then on top of that, trying to figure 540 00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 1: out I went to school. I went to school in Oregon, 541 00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: very liberal state. I grew up in Vegas, very pretty 542 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 1: liberal city. Right, So then you moved to the midwest. St. 543 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:46,720 Speaker 1: Louis very not to the city. So there's all this, 544 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:51,480 Speaker 1: there's a lot of internal going on, and still trying 545 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,240 Speaker 1: to figure out to find that voice, because that's that 546 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: trauma when I was seven years old, So I would say, 547 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people then realize that was 548 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: a long time. I didn't really have the confidence of 549 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:07,560 Speaker 1: speaking on it. Not only the things that um that 550 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,960 Speaker 1: was probably holding me back from thriving even faster, but 551 00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,920 Speaker 1: I just didn't know if it was Marsha enough to 552 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 1: even say it. I ask it right with all internal 553 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: But then everybody's looking at this six, Yeah, he's fine. 554 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: So what does a veteran need to know today for 555 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,600 Speaker 1: that rookie else in the locker room like you? What 556 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: does a veteran, a current veteran in the locker room 557 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:41,000 Speaker 1: need to know on how to connect with that guy 558 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: who's feeling what you feeling? What? What do we need 559 00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: to know? How would we approach you? I think if 560 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: somebody with in that locker room just saying how how 561 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 1: are you doing? How you dealing with the pressure, I 562 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: think that would have opened up me my heart to 563 00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: be even then saying you know what, that never happened, right, Wow, 564 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: that's amazing Because the reason why I'm saying it's amazing 565 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,720 Speaker 1: literally when you're talking right now, is as if you 566 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: were in that locker room right now, because I hear 567 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,720 Speaker 1: the emotion. I hear what you were really going through. 568 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: It was a lot at the time, you know, it 569 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: was a lot. But then I think enduring that it 570 00:30:23,640 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 1: made me want to be a big brother to all 571 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 1: the other guys afterwards, because then then, once I found myself, 572 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: I was like, now I want to protect these young guys. 573 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 1: I just want you to know you can. You have 574 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: a safe hayment with me. Jack is a vault. I'm 575 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 1: not gonna say anything whatever we discussed it between you 576 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 1: and I, but know that I've been there, yeah, and 577 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: I'm the one person you can't trust. When did you're 578 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: epiphany come? When did you finally awakened? Like, Okay, I 579 00:30:51,600 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: got this? When did you ever? I don't I don't 580 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 1: know quite the time the moment, but I would say 581 00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:07,520 Speaker 1: it was I can't remember what we lost too. We 582 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:11,600 Speaker 1: lost a game. It was a tight one and my pops, 583 00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: my dad, he always met me outside of the locker 584 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,360 Speaker 1: at the locker room, and I looked at him. I 585 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: just bawled, man, I just started crying. And he was like, 586 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 1: what's wrong with you? You know? He thought physically I 587 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,560 Speaker 1: was hurt, you know, And I said no, I said, Um, 588 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: I'm doing everything I can. We just can't win. We 589 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,800 Speaker 1: just can't get her over the hump. And I said, 590 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,160 Speaker 1: you know, to hear the crowd buw you and and um, 591 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: your home crowd brew you, and to not have consistencent 592 00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: head coach, right, so there's no real consistent leader that 593 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: I could feel like that was that conpiss to follow, 594 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: I said, I said to him, I said, Pops, I 595 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: just said I need you, man, I need you. And 596 00:31:53,800 --> 00:31:55,640 Speaker 1: this is I mean him and my mom is still 597 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 1: living fifty years of marriage. But I think it took 598 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: me to tell my dad that I need your voice. 599 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 1: If that doesn't matter that you never play in the NFL, 600 00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,400 Speaker 1: just help me be a better man. And I think 601 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 1: that helped our our relationship grow more because at a 602 00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: certain point, I think you look at like he's making 603 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,480 Speaker 1: a lot of money. You know, he has his own family. 604 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:19,360 Speaker 1: Time to step back and I'm like, no, I need you. Yeah, 605 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's huge. What How did your dad feel? 606 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:28,520 Speaker 1: He wanted that because he didn't have his father in 607 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: his life, so he didn't know how to be a father. 608 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 1: And I have two older sisters, so I think me 609 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,160 Speaker 1: saying that to him, he thought it was being a 610 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,880 Speaker 1: good dad was a certain way, a certain model that 611 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: he didn't get. The he didn't get, you know, the 612 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,200 Speaker 1: directions to I'm like, no, it's really what I'm trying 613 00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: to find my voice. You're trying to find your voice. 614 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:50,600 Speaker 1: Let's find it together. Wow. And it's just orchanic, just 615 00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 1: the counselors and what I said, you need to tell 616 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 1: it to your Yeah, yeah, well that's great. What counselors 617 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: do help guys understand that connection to the fathers a 618 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,520 Speaker 1: lot of times to the mother. So as we close 619 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 1: this out right, what advice would you guys do even 620 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: give to first round draft picks? I would say, be 621 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: open minded. I mean it's a little different today because 622 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: well it's really not. Um we see it differently because 623 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:24,080 Speaker 1: we want our first rounders to come in and be veterans, 624 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,160 Speaker 1: and it's really unfair. You know, Stephen just said, it's 625 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: like that third year. I always give everybody, every players 626 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,120 Speaker 1: to get three years of figuring it out because it 627 00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:34,760 Speaker 1: takes them a little while. Some guys figure out a 628 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:38,760 Speaker 1: little bit faster, some guys a little bit slower, but 629 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: it normally takes most players about three years to figure 630 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: out like, oh, I belong here and I can't play 631 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:47,960 Speaker 1: in this league. You know, coaching in this league, I 632 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: realized everybody that comes into in the building and comes 633 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,120 Speaker 1: in out in that room, in different rooms, they don't 634 00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: all believe that they belong They don't all believe that 635 00:33:57,560 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: they can play at a high level because they're playing 636 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:02,560 Speaker 1: against the best of the best every town, regardless of 637 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:05,880 Speaker 1: the talent. Right. And there's some guys who dove have 638 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: they have more confidence, but there's certain guys that you'll 639 00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: see that they really don't know if they belong here. 640 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: And then so you know, as a player being in 641 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,520 Speaker 1: the room, I'm just like you know that. You know. 642 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 1: I tell to all guys like you, you've been playing 643 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: this game your whole life. Most guys who play in 644 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: the National Football League started playing when they're probably seven, 645 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 1: eight years old, nine years old. That's the same game. 646 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:31,839 Speaker 1: You just get paid to do it now in front 647 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,880 Speaker 1: of a big crowd. I said this, Go enjoy yourself 648 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:37,840 Speaker 1: and go play. I said everything I said. Take learning 649 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 1: the game. Find a person in the locker room who's 650 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,080 Speaker 1: been in the league for a long time and talk 651 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:49,240 Speaker 1: to him and mentor let him be your mentor because 652 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:51,200 Speaker 1: he's going to show you the right things to do. 653 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,959 Speaker 1: Don't go to Bobby who just got there last year, 654 00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: who wants to hang out at the club all night, 655 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: because Bobby gonna get you fired. What about us? You? 656 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,800 Speaker 1: What would you tell a first round draft one? Everything 657 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:07,319 Speaker 1: I concurag. But on top of that, I always tell 658 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,040 Speaker 1: a young running backs, like tonight, they'll perform. I always 659 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,759 Speaker 1: say to them, always remain hungry and humble. You do 660 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:16,120 Speaker 1: those you know, you do those things, you'll be right, 661 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:21,839 Speaker 1: You'll be all right. And if you remain humble enough, 662 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 1: you can always learned in any sense situation. And I 663 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 1: think always I was able to remain humble enough that 664 00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:32,360 Speaker 1: even despite that first year, that rookie year, not playing 665 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,600 Speaker 1: a lot, you know, backing up a Hall of Famer, 666 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:40,439 Speaker 1: being frustrated with that uh, every every time he took 667 00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,640 Speaker 1: a rep, I made a mental rep of it, and 668 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:44,600 Speaker 1: I was like, that's me carrying it, because again I 669 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,560 Speaker 1: didn't want when I got on the field, I didn't 670 00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:51,800 Speaker 1: want the crowd to know Marshall was off. Well, gentlemen, 671 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:56,439 Speaker 1: this has been fantastic. Thank you for being here, thank 672 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,799 Speaker 1: you all for listening, And the best is yet to come. 673 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:05,239 Speaker 1: Thank you Stephen, Thank you Rod. This has been the 674 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,480 Speaker 1: NFL Legends podcast. To provide feedback or request a topic 675 00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:21,439 Speaker 1: for discussion, email us at NFL Legends at nfl dot com.