1
00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,240
Speaker 1: Thanking Sideways is not brought to you by the man

2
00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:06,520
Speaker 1: with a nice standing behind you. Wait, wait a second,

3
00:00:06,519 --> 00:00:09,200
Speaker 1: I guess it is. I'm sure you've heard of this

4
00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,639
Speaker 1: cool new subscription service called how to Killer. If you haven't,

5
00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,960
Speaker 1: well listen in. This interactive investigation is deliver to your

6
00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,880
Speaker 1: doorstep each month. You should check it out at dub

7
00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:21,560
Speaker 1: dub dub how to killer dot com. Their form of

8
00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:24,920
Speaker 1: storytelling puts you in the serial killer's mind. It's like

9
00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,000
Speaker 1: you're living your favorite true crime series. They've created a

10
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,400
Speaker 1: fictional world for true crime fans. You actually live inside

11
00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,680
Speaker 1: their story. And if investigating isn't your thing, well you

12
00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:37,240
Speaker 1: probably know somebody who would love this. As a gift

13
00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,920
Speaker 1: great for Valentine's Day. To help support our show, they've

14
00:00:40,920 --> 00:00:43,239
Speaker 1: offered a ten percent disc out to our listeners. Use

15
00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,519
Speaker 1: the code sideways and get ten percent off. Head on

16
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,680
Speaker 1: over now to how to Killer dot com and register,

17
00:00:49,920 --> 00:01:00,240
Speaker 1: and also don't forget to use the code sideways. Up

18
00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:08,880
Speaker 1: up the idea I don't know stories of things we

19
00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:13,639
Speaker 1: simply don't know the answer to. Hey there, and welcome

20
00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:17,679
Speaker 1: again to another episode of Thinking Sideways. I am Steve

21
00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:22,880
Speaker 1: as usually joined by Devin, whose words he's stealing, and Joe,

22
00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:26,800
Speaker 1: who is disgusted by the fact that Steve suddenly, without

23
00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,319
Speaker 1: knowing what he was doing, shorten a word because I

24
00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,200
Speaker 1: actually hate that stuff. I have no idea how that

25
00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,520
Speaker 1: came out of my face. No, I didn't mean to

26
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:39,920
Speaker 1: do that. That really disturbs me. I'm oh, shut up.

27
00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:43,679
Speaker 1: This week, as usual, we have another mystery for you.

28
00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,640
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about the disappearance of Australian Prime

29
00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:51,680
Speaker 1: Minister Harold Holt, who disappeared on the seventeenth of December.

30
00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:59,160
Speaker 1: And this was, of course a listeners suggestion was suggested

31
00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:03,080
Speaker 1: by Alex Amy and Carla and David and Penelope and

32
00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,120
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of other people whose names we did

33
00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,360
Speaker 1: not write down because we literally ran out of room

34
00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:10,239
Speaker 1: in the spreadsheet. Yeah, unfortunately, sorry guys, but yeah, this

35
00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,480
Speaker 1: is one of our most it's one of our most

36
00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,080
Speaker 1: popular ones. And I gotta be honest with you, I

37
00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,200
Speaker 1: never intended to cover this story. I actually call this

38
00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:23,679
Speaker 1: Harold hold a k A. It's Joe's fault because there

39
00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:26,640
Speaker 1: was a little bit of a communication issue when it

40
00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,000
Speaker 1: came time to do the Harold Wilson episode, and I

41
00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:30,680
Speaker 1: thought we were doing Harold Holt that I did a

42
00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,640
Speaker 1: whole bunch of research. I could throw that away. I

43
00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,080
Speaker 1: couldn't throw it away because I found a freaking treasure troll. Sorry,

44
00:02:37,120 --> 00:02:39,000
Speaker 1: that was my fault. It turned out that it was

45
00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:40,880
Speaker 1: kind of an interesting case. It turned out it was

46
00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:45,360
Speaker 1: more interesting that I thought. Is just about our story.

47
00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:48,400
Speaker 1: So it's Cyberus, sharks and aliens. Doesn't get a lot

48
00:02:48,440 --> 00:02:51,520
Speaker 1: better than this, It's true. Sorry, thanks for spoiling it.

49
00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,079
Speaker 1: All right, you heard that. Well, let's let's talk about

50
00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,200
Speaker 1: the subject of our story tonight. Harold Holt he was

51
00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:03,280
Speaker 1: an Australian man. He was eight and went to law school.

52
00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,680
Speaker 1: After he graduated from law school, he practiced up until

53
00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:11,560
Speaker 1: the early sixties. But he was also very interested in

54
00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:15,520
Speaker 1: politics and was involved. He was a member of the

55
00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:20,680
Speaker 1: Liberal Party of Australia. And before anybody freaks out on me, yes,

56
00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:23,720
Speaker 1: I do know that the Liberal Party of Australia didn't

57
00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,880
Speaker 1: actually exist at the time, and instead he joined the

58
00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:31,480
Speaker 1: United Australia Party, but it was folded in and reconfigured

59
00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,120
Speaker 1: in so I just say he joined it. That sounds

60
00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,400
Speaker 1: good enough to me. Yeah, Parliamentary politics, it's if you're

61
00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,120
Speaker 1: an American it's kind of hard to fathom it, but

62
00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:42,840
Speaker 1: the parties come and go a lout quicker they do.

63
00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,480
Speaker 1: You know what's funny is that I was involved in

64
00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,920
Speaker 1: a high school program where I dealt a lot with

65
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,680
Speaker 1: like parliamentary procedure, and I thought it was really interesting

66
00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:55,360
Speaker 1: at the time, and now, oh my good lord, it's

67
00:03:55,400 --> 00:04:01,600
Speaker 1: like pulling teeth what. It's a long story. It was

68
00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:04,560
Speaker 1: basically debate. I have some follow up questions for off

69
00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:09,760
Speaker 1: the record. So Harold Holt, he's very He's very active

70
00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,480
Speaker 1: in his party, and he held quite a few different

71
00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,440
Speaker 1: positions over the course of his career, which spanned for

72
00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,960
Speaker 1: more than thirty years. He was a very four I

73
00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:23,960
Speaker 1: would consider him a very forward thinking and very liberal politician.

74
00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,679
Speaker 1: He during his time of service he was responsible for.

75
00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,279
Speaker 1: One of the things was the slow deconstruction of the

76
00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:36,280
Speaker 1: White Australia Policy, which was a policy. I shouldn't make

77
00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:38,240
Speaker 1: a laugh at that, but it was a policy that

78
00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,960
Speaker 1: was designed to prevent the immigration of anyone to Australia

79
00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:47,120
Speaker 1: who was not white. And it's one of those very big,

80
00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:51,760
Speaker 1: overarching government things that people in certain positions try to

81
00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:55,039
Speaker 1: protect themselves with. And if you're interested, I would read

82
00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,400
Speaker 1: about that, because it's got a very storied history. I

83
00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,520
Speaker 1: think sometimes we laugh at stuff like that because it

84
00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,560
Speaker 1: just seemed so insane that anybody would have ever done

85
00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,960
Speaker 1: something like that. How it seems absurd, but it did

86
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,480
Speaker 1: happen and it was horrible. So well, yeah, a lot

87
00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:12,719
Speaker 1: of that stuff came out of the eugenics craze. Oh yeah, yeah,

88
00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:14,960
Speaker 1: that's one of many places. I was here in America too.

89
00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:17,599
Speaker 1: I mean the same thing. I mean, it's it's interesting

90
00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,880
Speaker 1: to read what people wrote in those days, and a

91
00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,520
Speaker 1: lot of white Americans, for example, well, I'm sure white

92
00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:27,560
Speaker 1: people in Australian various other plays, Europeans in general, white Cappians.

93
00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,960
Speaker 1: They thought, for example, that Italians were actually not white people,

94
00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,440
Speaker 1: which I guess they are a little bit darker skin

95
00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:36,120
Speaker 1: than we are, but I mean they thought like an

96
00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,479
Speaker 1: entirely different race. And the point that Joe is getting

97
00:05:39,480 --> 00:05:41,920
Speaker 1: at is what a series of foolishness like to all

98
00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,360
Speaker 1: of it's crazy. But so the white Australia policy was.

99
00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,320
Speaker 1: It was something that Harold Holt realized was not a

100
00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:53,200
Speaker 1: good idea, and he helped slowly deconstruct that through a

101
00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,000
Speaker 1: number of different ways. After about thirty years of service.

102
00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,640
Speaker 1: Harold Holt was elected leader of the Liberal Party and

103
00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,520
Speaker 1: that was in the beginning of nineteen sixty six. He

104
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,000
Speaker 1: was in that put him into the Prime Minister position.

105
00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,640
Speaker 1: He was officially in office for only two years, but

106
00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:12,960
Speaker 1: he did a lot of things during that time, some good,

107
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,440
Speaker 1: some bad. Uh. Some of the good things that he

108
00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:18,800
Speaker 1: did was again he put one of the final nails

109
00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,880
Speaker 1: in the White Australian policy. He pulled the Australian dollar

110
00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:27,080
Speaker 1: away from being tied to the British sterling, which I

111
00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,560
Speaker 1: know that the Australian dollar it only started in the

112
00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,120
Speaker 1: beginning of sixties six, but he just he broke it away.

113
00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,360
Speaker 1: That was one of the things he did for inflation reasons,

114
00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,120
Speaker 1: if I remember the reason he did it. But you know,

115
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:41,799
Speaker 1: he also he did things for Aboriginal Australians for their rights.

116
00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,080
Speaker 1: So he did a lot of good things, but he

117
00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 1: also did some not very good things, such as he

118
00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:52,920
Speaker 1: supported the United States President Lyndon B. Johnson in his

119
00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:59,960
Speaker 1: uh involvement in the Vietnam War and the first sideways

120
00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,440
Speaker 1: on him. Well yeah, but I mean it's like you say,

121
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,840
Speaker 1: saying that Vietnam was not good. I realized a lot

122
00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:06,880
Speaker 1: of people think it was not good From from a

123
00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:09,479
Speaker 1: public views standpoint, it wasn't a good thing because in

124
00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,400
Speaker 1: the beginning the Australian people were for it, and he's

125
00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,520
Speaker 1: famously made the statement all the way with lb J,

126
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,160
Speaker 1: which was apparently very offhanded, came back to bite him

127
00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,840
Speaker 1: in the butt. But you know, after a couple of

128
00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,119
Speaker 1: years and he keeps sending all these these guys over there,

129
00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:31,000
Speaker 1: it's public sentiment turned against it. So that's that's why

130
00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:32,920
Speaker 1: I just set here in the States. I mean, it's

131
00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,280
Speaker 1: not very much. So you know, it wasn't just in Australia.

132
00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:37,960
Speaker 1: I didn't mean it was like that didn't mean it

133
00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:40,400
Speaker 1: was like an evil thing to do, but it was like,

134
00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,760
Speaker 1: but yeah, it was not popular that in a long term,

135
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,320
Speaker 1: it was not popular is the right word he used. Absolutely,

136
00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,280
Speaker 1: he does this, like I said, he's doing things that

137
00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:52,440
Speaker 1: are good, he's doing things that are bad. He is

138
00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,000
Speaker 1: he's a he's a human, he's a normal basically, he's

139
00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,760
Speaker 1: being a normal politician. Well also, you know, you gotta

140
00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:00,600
Speaker 1: remember too that he was ahead of a party which

141
00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:04,120
Speaker 1: you know, had certain policies in place, and so he

142
00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,360
Speaker 1: was kind of bound by most of that stuff. I mean, yeah,

143
00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,120
Speaker 1: that's part of it. And you know, so he was

144
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,120
Speaker 1: doing what he thought was right for his people and

145
00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,800
Speaker 1: his country. But he was, like I said, making good

146
00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:17,200
Speaker 1: decisions and bad decisions. And that also extended again being

147
00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,560
Speaker 1: a human being to his personal life, and there was

148
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,720
Speaker 1: a lot of what now we would refer to as

149
00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:27,240
Speaker 1: kind of questionable judgment. Yeah, that's exactly where I'm going.

150
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,200
Speaker 1: It's perfectly fine because you'll hear about that stuff a lot.

151
00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,360
Speaker 1: Let's talk about a very important person in his life,

152
00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,960
Speaker 1: which would be his wife. Her name is Zara Holt.

153
00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:43,400
Speaker 1: Originally it's Nie Dickens. She and Harold Holt met. Did

154
00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:45,040
Speaker 1: I say that wrong? No, it's just a weird way

155
00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:52,320
Speaker 1: to say it, Okay. Her maiden name was YadA, YadA YadA.

156
00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:56,439
Speaker 1: They met in college and they dated, but they ended

157
00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,719
Speaker 1: up having a big fight at one point and they

158
00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,679
Speaker 1: broke up and she moved away and she ended up

159
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:06,240
Speaker 1: in marrying another man. She had three children with him,

160
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,440
Speaker 1: Nicholas was born in ninety seven, and then a set

161
00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,680
Speaker 1: of twins, Sam and Andrew, who were born in nineteen nine.

162
00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,839
Speaker 1: Things weren't such so great in their marriage, and eventually

163
00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:20,000
Speaker 1: she divorced James fell was the man that she had married.

164
00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:24,760
Speaker 1: She divorced James Fell and then ended up marrying Harold

165
00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:30,560
Speaker 1: Holt in nineteen And I'm not going to go into it,

166
00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:34,040
Speaker 1: but there is a speculation that maybe the twins were

167
00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:37,559
Speaker 1: actually Harold Holtz. I don't know. I don't know what's

168
00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 1: based on. I didn't do any digging on that. Called

169
00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,080
Speaker 1: DNA testing. We can find out there is. I can

170
00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:47,079
Speaker 1: tell you one thing that I know about world politics

171
00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,920
Speaker 1: is there's a lot of speculation about who might be

172
00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:54,559
Speaker 1: the father or mother of who everybody, Yeah, just about anybody.

173
00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:57,240
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot recently with the whole Fidel Castro,

174
00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,280
Speaker 1: so that been really interesting. And then there's some speculation

175
00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,520
Speaker 1: over the actual parentage of Prince Henry. And I mean

176
00:10:05,559 --> 00:10:08,960
Speaker 1: it's just everybody just you know, is going to say

177
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:11,640
Speaker 1: what they're going to say. Yeah, that's yeah. I think

178
00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 1: Prince Henry looks a lot like Charles to me, I

179
00:10:14,960 --> 00:10:18,960
Speaker 1: don't know. I think I've got no comment. Okay, I

180
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:20,800
Speaker 1: can never keep it straight. Which one is the older one?

181
00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:27,760
Speaker 1: That's m Williams because she's waiting for theosition Harry's the

182
00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,439
Speaker 1: red head. Okay, maybe it's William that I'm thinking about

183
00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,880
Speaker 1: Harry doesn't. Yeah, Harry is more reddish, share and you're right,

184
00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,840
Speaker 1: he does look a lot different. Yeah's ginger. Yeah, And like,

185
00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,640
Speaker 1: didn't Diana have a bodyguard who was a red headed guy?

186
00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:45,199
Speaker 1: So I would have never expected Princess Diana to make

187
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,199
Speaker 1: an appearance in a Harold Whole episode, But apparently that

188
00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:51,240
Speaker 1: just happened part of the common Sorry, yeah, we're getting

189
00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,040
Speaker 1: a little off topic. Let's go back to the story.

190
00:10:53,200 --> 00:10:55,360
Speaker 1: Let's go back to the story. Let's talk about Harold Holt,

191
00:10:55,640 --> 00:10:59,199
Speaker 1: who was a ladies man, and, as is so often

192
00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,560
Speaker 1: the case with a guy who's calling the ladies man,

193
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:06,440
Speaker 1: he was not faithful to his wife. He had quite

194
00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:11,480
Speaker 1: a few affairs. Zara was aware of them. She I

195
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:13,440
Speaker 1: watched a great interview. I don't know if you guys

196
00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,840
Speaker 1: got a chance to watch the video with her, but

197
00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,760
Speaker 1: she talks very candidly about the fact that she knew

198
00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,520
Speaker 1: and she just looked the other way. You know, some

199
00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:27,679
Speaker 1: it's some people are she loved him, and that was

200
00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:29,720
Speaker 1: you know, that was kind of well, if you're gonna

201
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,080
Speaker 1: take me, you're gonna take Harold, you're gonna take this

202
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,840
Speaker 1: as as well. I don't get it, but that's the

203
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,480
Speaker 1: decision she made, and that's the way it was. So

204
00:11:37,559 --> 00:11:42,360
Speaker 1: he was known to to have affairs. So that having

205
00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:44,400
Speaker 1: been said, because that that's something that will play into

206
00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:47,280
Speaker 1: part of our stuff when we come into theories. Let's

207
00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,960
Speaker 1: move to two days before Harold Holt disappears, which is

208
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:56,160
Speaker 1: the fifteen of December, and he opens a novelope of

209
00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:00,600
Speaker 1: her breakfast and there's five orange pips. No. Actually, but

210
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:05,280
Speaker 1: he would have been for sixty. Yeah, he was in

211
00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,520
Speaker 1: the sixties because he was born in nineteen o eight.

212
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:13,400
Speaker 1: This is nineteen six. He would have sh he had

213
00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:18,079
Speaker 1: to be sixty unless he was born yeah, okay, so

214
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,199
Speaker 1: so okay, So we're looking at the fifteenth of December

215
00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,600
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven. And actually, before we go into the story,

216
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,080
Speaker 1: I want to give a gigantic shout out set of

217
00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:33,000
Speaker 1: kudos to the National Archives of Australia because they did

218
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:38,679
Speaker 1: an amazing job of preserving documentation about Harold's Hole and

219
00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,520
Speaker 1: making them accessible and making them which totally thinks that

220
00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,199
Speaker 1: we run into a lot. It's not that the documentation

221
00:12:45,240 --> 00:12:47,240
Speaker 1: isn't there, it's just that it's real hard for people

222
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:52,480
Speaker 1: to get reading through that stuff. It is fantastic thank

223
00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,880
Speaker 1: you National Archives of Australia. And by the way, if

224
00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:57,760
Speaker 1: you're listening, send us an email because I want your

225
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,520
Speaker 1: help getting some information on the envy joey. Uh. She

226
00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,959
Speaker 1: still hadn't let that one go. Okay, So on the

227
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:09,320
Speaker 1: fift he travels from Melbourne to his home in Ports

228
00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,520
Speaker 1: which is on the southern coast of Australia. He's there

229
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,640
Speaker 1: for a night and then he that night he goes

230
00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,120
Speaker 1: over to a friend's house or actually it's a neighbor's

231
00:13:19,160 --> 00:13:23,920
Speaker 1: house to have drinks. That neighbor's name is Marjorie Gillespie,

232
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,800
Speaker 1: and Marjorie Gillespie is one of the players in our

233
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,400
Speaker 1: story because not only was she a neighbor, he was

234
00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,960
Speaker 1: also having an affair with her. And that's confirmed she

235
00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,760
Speaker 1: has she admitted it eventually, or did come out and

236
00:13:37,920 --> 00:13:42,200
Speaker 1: say yes that actually a Chinese spy in an alien too.

237
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:46,079
Speaker 1: Write No, actually those two didn't happen. You need to

238
00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,800
Speaker 1: stop reading somebody comics. So the next day, the sixteen

239
00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,360
Speaker 1: wasn't all that eventful. Harold Holt goes over to a

240
00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:57,280
Speaker 1: friend's and plays a tennis so we didn't apparently play

241
00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:00,640
Speaker 1: a very good game. Wasn't up to his usual stands anyway,

242
00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:04,600
Speaker 1: because he had suffered a shoulder injury, which it sounds

243
00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:08,079
Speaker 1: like he had either finished treatment for or was still

244
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:11,319
Speaker 1: getting treatment for. Stanny Is it was actually an old

245
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,000
Speaker 1: injury that just flared up from time to time. I

246
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:17,640
Speaker 1: honestly cannot say which it is because I hear it

247
00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:20,640
Speaker 1: back and forth and I can't. I never I've looked

248
00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:22,800
Speaker 1: through all those archived documents that I could never find

249
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,880
Speaker 1: anything that confirms it. I know it exists because the

250
00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:29,600
Speaker 1: man that he played tennis with was a doctor who

251
00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,920
Speaker 1: talked about it but in to the police later on.

252
00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:36,880
Speaker 1: But I don't know exactly where he got that injury.

253
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:41,880
Speaker 1: But he then later that day his stepson and the

254
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,000
Speaker 1: stepson's wife come over, bring his granddaughter over for a

255
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:48,960
Speaker 1: little while, and then they leave. So not really a

256
00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:54,520
Speaker 1: big day. His stepson possible son, Yes, it was one

257
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,640
Speaker 1: of the twins. I don't remember which twin, but it

258
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,840
Speaker 1: was one of the twin boys it had come over.

259
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:02,560
Speaker 1: I can't but like I said, I don't remember which

260
00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:04,840
Speaker 1: one of the two. But then we moved to the

261
00:15:04,920 --> 00:15:09,440
Speaker 1: seventeen and on that day Harold Holt got up. He

262
00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,880
Speaker 1: talked to his housekeeper slash maid who brought him breakfast,

263
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:16,560
Speaker 1: and he said he had plans and what those plans

264
00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:19,720
Speaker 1: were was he was going to watch the cutter called

265
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:25,320
Speaker 1: the Lively Lady, which was piloted by Alec Rose, arrive

266
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,160
Speaker 1: and sail through the port. Philip Head, what what's the

267
00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,680
Speaker 1: what's the cutter? Suth? Cutter is a ship. It's a sailboat.

268
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,560
Speaker 1: It's so Alec Rose was sailing around the world by

269
00:15:37,640 --> 00:15:42,200
Speaker 1: himself in nineteen sixties six and sixty seven or no,

270
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:48,120
Speaker 1: sixties seven to sixty eight. His boat is actually still around.

271
00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,560
Speaker 1: It's in a marine I think as a kind of

272
00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,720
Speaker 1: a museum piece. You can actually go on to it.

273
00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:57,440
Speaker 1: But he was sailing that boat around the world, so

274
00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,720
Speaker 1: it was something to see. Yeah, oh yeah, I know

275
00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,280
Speaker 1: a lot of people turned out to answer you a question.

276
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,760
Speaker 1: What the cutter is is? It's a It's a sail rig.

277
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:07,680
Speaker 1: You know what a sloop is. A slip is a

278
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,960
Speaker 1: single masted sail boat that's got a that's got a

279
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:13,920
Speaker 1: mainsail and a four sail. Right, so cutter rig is

280
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,440
Speaker 1: also single masted. These the masters that have been stepped

281
00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,600
Speaker 1: a little further back and it has two head sails

282
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:21,760
Speaker 1: instead of one, so that's the difference. That's the cutter.

283
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:23,880
Speaker 1: And by the way, when he when he did is

284
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:25,960
Speaker 1: around the World cruise in sixty seven, when he came

285
00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,440
Speaker 1: into Australia, it was no longer a cutter because he

286
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,040
Speaker 1: had added a mask to it. It was then it

287
00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:32,400
Speaker 1: was at that time a catch. So catches a is

288
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,400
Speaker 1: a two masted rig with the tall mast in front

289
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,360
Speaker 1: and the short mast in the rear. So I just apologized,

290
00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:40,440
Speaker 1: show you've been talking and I've understood none of that,

291
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,360
Speaker 1: but I believe you. I don't know enough that I

292
00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,680
Speaker 1: understand that he took it from one to two mass

293
00:16:46,680 --> 00:16:48,640
Speaker 1: and that changed the style of the boat. But after

294
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,880
Speaker 1: they no longer a cutter. It's catch. So the point

295
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:54,880
Speaker 1: is this is a this is a thing to see.

296
00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:59,520
Speaker 1: And what he's gonna do is he goes ahead and

297
00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,880
Speaker 1: he called os Marjorie Gillespie and he invites her to

298
00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:07,040
Speaker 1: join him to watch this happen. She says, yeah, sure,

299
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:08,760
Speaker 1: So he shows up at her house at about eleven

300
00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:12,520
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning and then her and her daughter Viner,

301
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,159
Speaker 1: as well as two young men that were at the house,

302
00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:21,639
Speaker 1: Martin Simpson and Alan Stewart. Simpson was dating Viner the daughter,

303
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:24,800
Speaker 1: and then Alan Stewart was just a family friend. But

304
00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,160
Speaker 1: the group go to a spot that Harold Holt has

305
00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:32,040
Speaker 1: access to because of his position. It's not it's not

306
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,560
Speaker 1: open land that anybody can go to. It's inside of

307
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,680
Speaker 1: its military land from what the way. Yeah, and they

308
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,560
Speaker 1: had to go through like an mp A post and

309
00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,080
Speaker 1: you know they raised the gate and let you go through.

310
00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,000
Speaker 1: It was that kind of scenario. But he had friends

311
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,560
Speaker 1: in high places and so he could go there. Yes,

312
00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:54,879
Speaker 1: wasn't he the prime minister? Yes? Sorry, I just like that.

313
00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,000
Speaker 1: You're like, as the prime minister, he had friends and

314
00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:00,600
Speaker 1: high place. He was the high place. But prime minister

315
00:18:00,720 --> 00:18:03,560
Speaker 1: he would have access to anywhere. But but well, I

316
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,679
Speaker 1: mean he technically shouldn't have had access to it, is

317
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,719
Speaker 1: what I understand. Like, yeah, he could go there, but

318
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,480
Speaker 1: he really shouldn't have been told. Sure, Harold maybe like

319
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,679
Speaker 1: swim there right on official business he would have been

320
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:20,600
Speaker 1: allowed access, correct, but not on a recreational basis. That's

321
00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,680
Speaker 1: why I see it. Sorry, I just love that term

322
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:28,040
Speaker 1: though at the prime minister he had friends in high places. Ye.

323
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:33,880
Speaker 1: So so the place that they're going is um Cheviot Beach. Everyone,

324
00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,760
Speaker 1: so they go there, they parked, they walked down to

325
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,960
Speaker 1: the water, and it's at this point that from all

326
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,240
Speaker 1: of the records of the conversations that have been had

327
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:44,320
Speaker 1: with the people after the fact, everybody knows that the

328
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:45,840
Speaker 1: seas were kind of rough. There was a bunch of

329
00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:49,239
Speaker 1: driftwood in the water. It wasn't the nicest day at

330
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:55,240
Speaker 1: the beach. Martin Simpson. December, but it's Australia, so it's

331
00:18:55,240 --> 00:19:02,520
Speaker 1: December there, okay, on the side down summer um. So

332
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,680
Speaker 1: Martin Simpson, he walks into the water, but he stops

333
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:09,200
Speaker 1: when he's knee deep because he can feel an undertow.

334
00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:13,920
Speaker 1: Harold Holt, however, says to some at least one person,

335
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 1: if not multiple people in the party, I know this

336
00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:19,560
Speaker 1: beach like the back of my hand, at which point

337
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,959
Speaker 1: he walks into the water and begins swimming away, presumably

338
00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:26,360
Speaker 1: not in like his suit. He's in a swimsuit. He's

339
00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:29,399
Speaker 1: in a swim trunks. Yeah, what did you think I

340
00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:35,440
Speaker 1: just pictured him. No, he's in He's in his swimsuit.

341
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:37,840
Speaker 1: Was the end of the sixties, man, It was like

342
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:42,800
Speaker 1: in a free love And actually that wasn't what was happening,

343
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:49,480
Speaker 1: especially on a military base. Probably, But so then Alan Steward,

344
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,040
Speaker 1: he says, well, you know, I've got If Harold Holt

345
00:19:52,080 --> 00:19:53,720
Speaker 1: is going to do this, I gotta follow him into

346
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,200
Speaker 1: the water. But he stops when he's up to about

347
00:19:57,280 --> 00:20:00,040
Speaker 1: his armpits in the water because he can feel the

348
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:03,359
Speaker 1: undertow on his legs and he can feel it getting stronger,

349
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,640
Speaker 1: so he doesn't go in. Now I should explain here

350
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:11,080
Speaker 1: real briefly, that Harold Holt was in the water a lot.

351
00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:13,960
Speaker 1: It wasn't as if he was some old guy who

352
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 1: was completely out of shape and had no reason to

353
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 1: be in the serf swim a lot. He loves spear fishing,

354
00:20:22,160 --> 00:20:25,600
Speaker 1: like he was in the water and in relatively good shape.

355
00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,639
Speaker 1: So just so you don't think, well he's he's just

356
00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:30,879
Speaker 1: got You shouldn't been there. That's not what's going on

357
00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:35,320
Speaker 1: at all. So Marjorie, Marjorie Gillespie, she stayed on the beach,

358
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,960
Speaker 1: and she actually says that she watched Harold Holt swim out.

359
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 1: She said that, in her words, she watched him until

360
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 1: the waters around him got very turbulent and appeared to

361
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:51,879
Speaker 1: almost boil. I mean, I guess that's extremely rough seas,

362
00:20:51,920 --> 00:20:55,359
Speaker 1: is what she's describing at which point she lost sight

363
00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:58,879
Speaker 1: of him. Alan Stewart had just walked and walked up

364
00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 1: to her just you know, moments or a minute after that,

365
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:05,080
Speaker 1: and he started scanning the water with her looking for

366
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:08,680
Speaker 1: Harold Holp when they couldn't see him, and they hadn't

367
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,040
Speaker 1: spotted him. After several minutes, they had a feeling that

368
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 1: something bad was going on, and so Alan went ahead

369
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 1: and ran back up to the cars that they had

370
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:23,679
Speaker 1: driven there, and drove to the guard shack that they

371
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 1: had been given entry via. Really, let's set off a

372
00:21:27,800 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: search and rescue operation basically immediately. I kind of like

373
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:34,399
Speaker 1: the concept of like, oh yeah, of course, Mr Prime Minister,

374
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,679
Speaker 1: no problem, Yeah, there will be no safety net for

375
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 1: you whatsoever. You just go do whatever you want a problem.

376
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 1: I love that concept. Actually, it was a little more

377
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,440
Speaker 1: relaxed back and then must especially I mean by that time,

378
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 1: of course, in America it was all secret service all

379
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 1: the time, you know, but in other countries not nearly,

380
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: because we had had the JFK assassinations. Yeah, absolutely, but

381
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:58,200
Speaker 1: Australia was still let's fine, no, do what you want,

382
00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,800
Speaker 1: come and get me Chinese good level, okay, So yep.

383
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,920
Speaker 1: So the search of rescue show up within it sounds

384
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 1: like to me within twenty to forty minutes. Divers. There's

385
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:14,239
Speaker 1: three divers around the scene. You would, yeah, well, these

386
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: guys happened to be close by, and so they showed up.

387
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 1: But they said that when they got in the water,

388
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: the seas were so rough that they were being shoved

389
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 1: back and forth in underwater. They had almost no visibility

390
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:28,800
Speaker 1: because of all the sand that was being kicked up.

391
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,840
Speaker 1: And if you watch the film footage of them, they've

392
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 1: actually got ropes tied to themselves anchored on the beach

393
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 1: so that the undertow doesn't suck them out. In a way,

394
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: the turbulence and shallow water near a beach is a

395
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: lot different you getting deeper water, it's a lot nicer,

396
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: but close to the shore it is pretty rough and

397
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff. Whereas you know, go out a

398
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: couple hundred feet and it's not nearly as bad, right,

399
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,480
Speaker 1: But they were having a hard time getting out anywhere,

400
00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:00,640
Speaker 1: just because it was so so bad. There are then then,

401
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 1: of course more people show up. They're in boats there

402
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,679
Speaker 1: on land looking as well as in helicopters that are

403
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:11,680
Speaker 1: flying over the area looking for Harold Holt. They continue

404
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 1: to look until it until dark. The next day they

405
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 1: go back and they continue the same operation looking for him,

406
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 1: and at the close of the second day, which would

407
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:31,280
Speaker 1: have been the eighteen, they've found nobody. On the nineteen

408
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 1: the government comes out and officially announces that they presume

409
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: that Harold Holt is dead and on the two December

410
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,720
Speaker 1: of funeral is held for him. There it is. It

411
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 1: is kind of quick. There was no official investigation, partially

412
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 1: because everybody pretty pretty much figured that he got sucked

413
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,880
Speaker 1: under and he drowned when his body was pulled out

414
00:23:55,920 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: to see. Also there's there was the law at the

415
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 1: time in Australia prevented the corner from launching an investigation

416
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 1: without a body, and that that sets that sets conspiracy

417
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 1: theorists hair on fire. Now, eventually the laws were changed

418
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,600
Speaker 1: and in two thousand and three they did launch an investigation,

419
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: you know, almost four thirty some years later, at which

420
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: point they concluded that he drowned and he was his

421
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:34,560
Speaker 1: body was probably pulled out to sea or was taken

422
00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: by sharks, because there are sharks in the area. It's

423
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:42,840
Speaker 1: Australia where everything is trying to eat you. So actually

424
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: I guess the study the inquest concluded in two thousand five,

425
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: not two thousand threes when they started a bunch of inquests.

426
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 1: But Harold Holds finished in two thousand and five. But

427
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,760
Speaker 1: you know, so that's the official story. However, the Internet

428
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: does not believe that, and the world has come up

429
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:04,119
Speaker 1: with a million versions of what actually happened to Harold

430
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 1: does the internet? Is the Internet ever happy with anything?

431
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: Not typically, I mean, I write all kinds of things

432
00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,520
Speaker 1: in the Internet is never happy with any of it.

433
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,400
Speaker 1: So I take that as a sign of the times. Yeah,

434
00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:19,320
Speaker 1: so's so, I guess that that's the sign that we

435
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: should go into theories. Before we start theories, let's take

436
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: a quick break. The forest is dark, the air is heavy,

437
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 1: the rain constant. All around you swarm a little flies,

438
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,720
Speaker 1: But when showing the bear's patch of skin, you love

439
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,119
Speaker 1: to be able to give up and go home. But

440
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 1: the old woman in charge of the village warned you

441
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: what would happen if you came home empty handed again?

442
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: So you sit and you sit, waiting, hoping that the

443
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:47,880
Speaker 1: rain will end. Horn animal will wander by, all unaware,

444
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: but at the same time dreaming of a time in

445
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: the future. When you won't have to fear the old

446
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: woman and the food will really just come to you. Thankfully,

447
00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: for us, we don't live in that dark forest or

448
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: that time, and the food does come to courtesy of

449
00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:05,160
Speaker 1: Blue Apron. Blue Apron can be delivered to the contin

450
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 1: ll us and nine and a half percent of food

451
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: deserts uh. Some of the meals available in January include

452
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:16,800
Speaker 1: seared pork chops with Pharaoh and cranberry chutney. Also spicy shrimping,

453
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,200
Speaker 1: Korean rice cakes with cabbage and fur cocky. So check

454
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: out this week's men. You get your first three weeks

455
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,679
Speaker 1: free with free shipping if you go to blue Apron

456
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: dot com slash thinking, and you'll laugh how good it

457
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,240
Speaker 1: feels and how tasty it is to create these incredible

458
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 1: home cooked meals with Blue Apron. So don't wait, go

459
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: there today. That's blue Apron dot com slash thinking. Blue

460
00:26:39,760 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 1: Apron a better way to cook and never sit waiting

461
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:49,400
Speaker 1: in the forest again. And we're back. We should Let's

462
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:55,520
Speaker 1: just swim right into the theories theory number one. I

463
00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 1: hate that women theories swimming theories. Okay, come up with

464
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 1: something better. Let's do theories. Let's okay, let's do a

465
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: cannonball in the theories. Let's dive into it. Let's let

466
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: the gentle undertow of theories pull us into its sweet embrace.

467
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: Perfect alright, head out of the surf. Spare us a

468
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 1: few theories. There we go. All of these are all

469
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:28,800
Speaker 1: off the tongue. Okay. So theory number one suicide, because

470
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: it's always suicide, always. So this theory says that Harold

471
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,600
Speaker 1: Holt knew that for some reason, he was in trouble,

472
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: and he decided that the solution was to take his

473
00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: own life, I guess, to avoid whatever disgrace that was

474
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 1: gonna bring to him. And the suicide theories actually split

475
00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: into two causes, as in the things that drove him

476
00:27:53,240 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: to do it? Okay. Cause number one is Marjorie Gillespie, Okay, okay.

477
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:05,440
Speaker 1: It is supposedly said that she had told Harold Hold,

478
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:09,159
Speaker 1: or she had told others, that she intended to file

479
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: for divorce because she was as well as Harold Hold,

480
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:16,120
Speaker 1: she was married, and she was going to file for divorce,

481
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: and she was gonna name him as a co respondent,

482
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:24,920
Speaker 1: which equates to co adulterer or cheater, as in, this

483
00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 1: is the person I've been having the affair with why.

484
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: I don't know why you would put that on the paperwork,

485
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: but according to the theory, that's what she was gonna do.

486
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: But it sounds like it was pretty commonly known that

487
00:28:38,240 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 1: he was already, you know, doing a deed with her.

488
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: That's very well, if not with her with several other ladies. Yes,

489
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,719
Speaker 1: doesn't sound like he would have really rocked his world

490
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,080
Speaker 1: all that much. I am in complete and utter agreement

491
00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: with you on that. It is it doesn't make any

492
00:28:55,760 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: sense that he would suddenly be thrown sideways by that um.

493
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: So that then text takes us to theory number two,

494
00:29:09,760 --> 00:29:12,640
Speaker 1: or part number two of this theory, which is part

495
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 1: B of the Your Medicare Part D program Wait that

496
00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:21,400
Speaker 1: I've been watched too with tv UM. The second part

497
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: of the suicide theory, or the second cause is that

498
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:29,240
Speaker 1: there was problems in his political party that we're getting

499
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: away from him and going to cause him disgrace. So

500
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:39,160
Speaker 1: there was political infighting going on, and there was talk

501
00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 1: of a split in the Liberal Party. There were two people,

502
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,120
Speaker 1: at least two people who were really feuding, and I

503
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:53,400
Speaker 1: apologize if I mispronounced the names, but there are McEwen

504
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: and McMahon. I believe it's how you pronounced them. McMahon

505
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: became Prime minister years later. But yeah, so that these

506
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: two guys, so McMahon and and McEwen, they're having this

507
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: political infighting and there's talk about the group splitting. They're bickering.

508
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: I mean really they're bickering. They're going at each other's

509
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 1: throat and read some of the correspondence and as with

510
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: all politics, it just seems really petty after the fact.

511
00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: How dare you say I said that. I never said that,

512
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: But this is just the sort of stuff is par

513
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: for the course in politics. Yeah. Hole. They had been

514
00:30:30,400 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: in politics for thirty years. Do you think he had

515
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: never seen this? He had gone through the whole thing

516
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,920
Speaker 1: where the United Australia Party had folded and been then

517
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: morphed into the party that he is part of now,

518
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 1: Like this is not the first time this crap has

519
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: gone on. And it's like, even if his party goes

520
00:30:49,320 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: away and he's no like a prime minister, still keeps

521
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: his job in Parliament and you know, no matter what is,

522
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 1: his pension is not a danger, so no worries. So

523
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: both of the suicide theories don't really make any sense.

524
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 1: It's a little confusing to me as to how that

525
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 1: would be. But people say that he intentionally swam out

526
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: in very high surf knowing that he would not be

527
00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: to go past his limit, knowing he couldn't come back.

528
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,560
Speaker 1: It might be that you never know what's going on

529
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: with the guy. I mean, maybe like the other Herald

530
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 1: we just talked about, like three weeks ago, perhaps Loundernet, Yeah,

531
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:31,160
Speaker 1: like weeks ago. Yeah. Uh. Maybe like the other Herald,

532
00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:34,959
Speaker 1: maybe his mental faculties were going although nobody said anything

533
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:39,720
Speaker 1: about that about him marbles or anything like that. But well,

534
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,080
Speaker 1: if there's one thing I've learned from doing this podcast

535
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:46,840
Speaker 1: for years, um, it's that we get emails. Every time

536
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: suicide is a theory. We get at least one email

537
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: saying yeah, but suicide isn't always logical, are not always obvious? Yeah,

538
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: And you know my my of course, my gut reaction

539
00:31:57,720 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: is like, okay, find so he committed suicide, But like,

540
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 1: why I invite your mistress along? Why you know, why

541
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: just be like, oh, there's a bunch of people standing

542
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 1: right here, I'm just going to do this. But I

543
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:13,239
Speaker 1: also like, I also you know, know that there's no

544
00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: telling what's going through someone's head. So I don't I

545
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: don't believe the suicide theory. But also it's one of

546
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: those ones where I feel like I just can never

547
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 1: discount it at this point. Okay, No, that that that

548
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: I can't. I'll let that go. It's the second most

549
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,920
Speaker 1: likely of these theories. I think it's the third most

550
00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,800
Speaker 1: likely myself. Well, I put it actually on. Well, no,

551
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: there's a lot of bad theories in this so yeah,

552
00:32:37,320 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: it does kind of float to the top. Okay, let's

553
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:43,160
Speaker 1: move to our next theory, which is that Harold Holt

554
00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: was actually a Chinese sleeper agent. So this is fun

555
00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,480
Speaker 1: and it's great, and it came from a man named

556
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,400
Speaker 1: Robert Titcomb Actually will not initially because in the beginning

557
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: he gave the information to an author named Anthony Gray

558
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:04,560
Speaker 1: who and wrote a book. But supposedly Harold Holt had

559
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 1: always been a Chinese sympathizer and for some reason in

560
00:33:09,120 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven decided that it was time to leave

561
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,959
Speaker 1: Sunny Australia and returned to the People's Republic of China.

562
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: And how did they get in there? Well, obviously they

563
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 1: used a submarine, because that's how the Chinese always take

564
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: people away. Well, I guess it actually is a good

565
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 1: way to infiltrate nextfil trade people not in that space though, Well,

566
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: you don't usually do that kind of operation in the

567
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: daytime or when there's like a huge spectacle of a

568
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: boat in crowdswhere you know where there's you've invited. I mean,

569
00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: because the thing is he explicitly called his lady friend

570
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 1: and said, do you want to come? Right? So, so

571
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: the theory says that the Chinese to Chinese divers or

572
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: frog manage you'll see it called, which I always love

573
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 1: that name. I don't know why, but I like it.

574
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 1: I don't know where frog man came from. It is

575
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: a name, it is a good like it. Yeah, so

576
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: they they swim, they find whole How the hell they

577
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 1: find him in that rough water in that area I

578
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: don't know in Chevyott Beach, but they do. And I

579
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 1: guess they used the buddy system to keep him with

580
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: air as they take him back to the mini sub

581
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: the Actually they actually could have brought him a set

582
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: of tanks too, if they really had planned this out,

583
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: that's what they would have done. I'm true that the

584
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: hard party is that was as rough as the water

585
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 1: was reportedly was how you would find a guy. Well,

586
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: actually he he could have. He was a strong swim

587
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: with it was a big undertow He could actually easily

588
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: have gotten out of the whole churned up area next

589
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: to the shore and gotten out in clearer waters and

590
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:42,760
Speaker 1: then Ronnie Wood with him. But again, you know, actually

591
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:45,080
Speaker 1: making that meet up would be kind of tricky. And

592
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: there's also been some stuff that supposedly there's been investigations

593
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: that and I will be honest, I've seen this as

594
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,439
Speaker 1: cursory statements and I've never actually dug into him, but

595
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,839
Speaker 1: there's things that people say, well, they've looked into it,

596
00:34:57,000 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 1: and there's no way that a submarine could have gotten

597
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,720
Speaker 1: anywhere close enough based on the depth of the water

598
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:05,480
Speaker 1: in that area. But then that's why they always call

599
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,640
Speaker 1: it a mini sub, which I don't even know what

600
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: is a mini sub A small If you say a

601
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,560
Speaker 1: small sub, that's what it is. I don't know what

602
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:17,279
Speaker 1: you wanted for me, Like a mini horses, just a

603
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: small horse. I don't know who you That's what many means.

604
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,840
Speaker 1: It's like a mini Cooper is just a small Bradley Cooper.

605
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 1: But I mean mini subs could be a one man sub.

606
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:31,879
Speaker 1: There can be a six man sub, atten man sub.

607
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: You know, they can be actually decent sized, could it?

608
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,560
Speaker 1: Could it be the equivalent of what are those silly

609
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,479
Speaker 1: little underwater scooter things that you see in the James Bond.

610
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: That's not a sub, Okay, I was hoping. I mean

611
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,880
Speaker 1: that would actually be a great way to get your

612
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 1: diver close in and back out again. Had to use

613
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:54,319
Speaker 1: some of those things, the propulsion unit like, yeah, yeah,

614
00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,320
Speaker 1: so something like that could be. It could be strapped

615
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: down to the deck of the mini sub. Although in

616
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: the late sixties, yeah, they had that stuff. Jack Cousto

617
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: was using that stuff on TV. Jack maybe he was

618
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:20,879
Speaker 1: who stole him? Yeah, he wasn't underwater treasure. Oh you're

619
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: not that that was not a good French access our.

620
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 1: Next theory is that Harold Holt simply did the whole

621
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 1: thing as a giant put on, and he actually did

622
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:36,560
Speaker 1: it so that he could run away with a mistress.

623
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:41,000
Speaker 1: Another mistress. Well mistress, so we've we've can we hold

624
00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: off on that first second? I'm not quite actually done

625
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: with the Chinese. Please please, I don't want to talry

626
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,919
Speaker 1: about a mistress at all, So please tell me about this,

627
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,000
Speaker 1: you know, the whole sub thing. I mean, first of all,

628
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:52,880
Speaker 1: it's a bad day for it because there's gonna be

629
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:55,600
Speaker 1: a lot of boat traffic because for the fact, well now,

630
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: I mean you got this, the sailboat that's coming in.

631
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: Crowds of tens of thousands of people are lying and

632
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: short of watch it. And you know that everybody with

633
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: a boat, a private boat, is the o out there

634
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: on the water jetting around and stuff. It's it's it's

635
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: it's a bad time to be doing your ex filtration operation.

636
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,280
Speaker 1: This is also right about sixty seven was not around

637
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: the time with a great leap forward, not a great

638
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:21,719
Speaker 1: time to be in China. Great leap Forward. Yeah, you're

639
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: gonna have to you have to refresh my memory and that.

640
00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:26,279
Speaker 1: But yeah, I decided to like, you know, like sort

641
00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: of accelerates the whole Yes, the whole process of industrialization

642
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:38,240
Speaker 1: and modernization. Uh was when the Great Leap forward happened?

643
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: I get my history mixed up, But I don't know.

644
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 1: I just don't think China was all that attractive with

645
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: a place a place to defect. To know. Let me see,

646
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna leave a sunny paradise for a very cold

647
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:58,080
Speaker 1: place wherecause we're an economy and shrinking and just like

648
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,239
Speaker 1: it's just going awful. Yeah. Yeah. The thing about it

649
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: is is it I don't If he actually truly was

650
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 1: a Chinese agent and he defected, then obviously it didn't

651
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:09,799
Speaker 1: work out so well for him because the Chinese had

652
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,720
Speaker 1: two choices. One is they get a lot of publicity

653
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 1: out of it. They paraded before the cameras and say, hey,

654
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,640
Speaker 1: look came with us. I know it's a great for them.

655
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,320
Speaker 1: Or the alternative to that is you don't tell a soul,

656
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 1: you just get rid of him quietly. No, don't get

657
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: rid of him. The guy knows plenty of secrets. Pump him.

658
00:38:29,320 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: You and Tero get the crap out of them for years,

659
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:33,920
Speaker 1: ring every everything you can out, and then you can

660
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:37,600
Speaker 1: quietly suppose. So obviously, you know, if it was the Chinese,

661
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 1: which I doubt, then you know I didn't work out

662
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,280
Speaker 1: so well for you know what My favorite thing about

663
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 1: the whole it was the China side theory is is

664
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: it his son or his wife who made the best

665
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 1: statement ever be a Chinese agent? He didn't even like

666
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: Chinese food. That was obviously just part of this cover.

667
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: Obviously it was part of it about the mistress. Now

668
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: loves talking about the mistress. That's a good that's a

669
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 1: good point about the food and everything. But no, we

670
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,160
Speaker 1: can't devon Yeah, I mean exfil trading in that way.

671
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:15,839
Speaker 1: When he actually traveled abroad, it would have been very

672
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: easy to actually have him jump ship. I mean actually

673
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 1: even from Australia. There was just so many easier better

674
00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: ways to do it than swim it out into the ocean.

675
00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:26,720
Speaker 1: They're trying to rende be with some frog man and stuff.

676
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,919
Speaker 1: I mean, so yeah, point taking sure, Yeah, I think

677
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 1: you got it. Yeah, So that's it for the Chinese

678
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 1: for me, Okay, I think yeah, I think we're done

679
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,400
Speaker 1: without al right, so we're gonna go back to the mistress.

680
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,560
Speaker 1: So we have established the fact that Harold Holt was

681
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:43,839
Speaker 1: a womanizer, and we have established the fact that he

682
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 1: was known to have had affairs. So what's going to

683
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 1: prompt a man to walk away from his entire career

684
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,319
Speaker 1: and everything that he's known and built up in his life.

685
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: A pretty girl, a pretty new girl, which makes absolutely

686
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:05,200
Speaker 1: no se ends he had really been philandering as much

687
00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:09,560
Speaker 1: as he wanted apparently, so it doesn't make any sense

688
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: to leave all of the power and fame and money

689
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 1: that he has has attained just for a new girl.

690
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,279
Speaker 1: It doesn't it doesn't add up. Okay, So there's and

691
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:23,879
Speaker 1: some people say, well, he was he would have been

692
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:28,239
Speaker 1: ashamed if he had divorced Zara, But I don't know

693
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: that that's so much the case. And this is also

694
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 1: in that weird transitional time frame in world and just

695
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: reporting history where news agencies would say, well, you're a

696
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:42,840
Speaker 1: public figure and we'll talk about the things that you

697
00:40:42,920 --> 00:40:46,200
Speaker 1: do based on your job, but but your personal life

698
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,720
Speaker 1: is still kind of your personal life, and why would

699
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: we report on the fact that you are over here

700
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,000
Speaker 1: sleeping with the neighbor, because that's not our business. That's

701
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: your personal life. And that's that's in that transitional period

702
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,920
Speaker 1: where news media said, oh no, we were going to

703
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: cover at all. Well, I also guess I just don't

704
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: really understand the logic of like, you have a marriage

705
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: for your public face and a wife who says great,

706
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: go sleep with whoever you want, and you are in

707
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 1: the political realm that you want to be. You know,

708
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: you're leading your group, you're affecting change, and then you're

709
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,120
Speaker 1: just like, oh, you know what, suddenly this arrangement isn't

710
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: working for me, so I'm gonna go swim out into

711
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: the ocean and take my own death like that. I

712
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:30,240
Speaker 1: don't understand that logic. Although one of the things about

713
00:41:30,920 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: about the whole thing that makes no sense to me

714
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:35,080
Speaker 1: is that there was indeed a riptide that day. But

715
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 1: riptides are actually pretty easy to deal with, and Harold Holt,

716
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: being an experienced swimmer, wouldn't know how to do that.

717
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 1: So I think I think the point that when we

718
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: hear the test the words of Marjorie Gillespie, when she

719
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: says that the sea appeared to boil and there was

720
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: a lot of driftwood, I think that what what's what

721
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 1: she's getting at is that the search was crashing on him.

722
00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: So it's not so much I think that there was

723
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: the ripped tide. I think what they're getting at is

724
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:10,439
Speaker 1: he was hit and shoved underwater, and while underwater, then

725
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,279
Speaker 1: that riptide is what gets him, not you know, when

726
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: he's swimming up top. Yeah, yeah, it's entirely possible. I mean, driftwood.

727
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: You never know what sizes they're talking about, like that sticks.

728
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: I mean I've seen driftwood, the trees, the co big trees,

729
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 1: the entire freaking fifty year old tree flow around. I

730
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,320
Speaker 1: have to assume when they were talking about driftwood in

731
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,000
Speaker 1: the Tide, I have to assume they were talking about

732
00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,919
Speaker 1: smaller chunks, because I mean, and I was a little

733
00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,239
Speaker 1: fool hardy, but swimming and surf where there's massive tree

734
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: trunks floating around is, in my mind, the most idiotic

735
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: thing you could ever do. I have seen some of

736
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 1: the images from the time and the beach, and I

737
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,360
Speaker 1: got the impression that there was driftwood that was floating

738
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 1: around that was the diameter of your thigh. So that's

739
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 1: that's a I don't know, I couldn't really tell the length,

740
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: but I could get an idea. But that's a that's

741
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 1: a hunk of wood. And you know, when you're swimming

742
00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 1: in the Caesar up and down, you don't see that coming.

743
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,319
Speaker 1: You have no idea that you're about to swim into

744
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,359
Speaker 1: a floating forest of wood that's going to clobber you.

745
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 1: So but but I don't know, Joe, that's a great point.

746
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:23,600
Speaker 1: I mean, it seems like maybe I don't even know

747
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:25,920
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to say here, But there's a lot

748
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: of ways that that could have gone. There were a

749
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 1: lot of things after you get him. Let's let's go

750
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: to our next theory though, because this one makes a

751
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:38,279
Speaker 1: lot of no sense and I have absolutely not a

752
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:41,320
Speaker 1: clear idea of how this came about. But this theory

753
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 1: says that either Harold Holt was part of or despised

754
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: by the mr Asia drug syndicate and that is why

755
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: he disappears. So it is a real thing, the mr

756
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: Asia drug syndicate. This is actually really this was actually

757
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 1: a really interesting thing to read about. It kind of

758
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:07,480
Speaker 1: is so so because I was just gonna say, like,

759
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: what kind of dummy names The thing that Joe or

760
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,080
Speaker 1: the mr Asia drug syndicate was started by a guy

761
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:21,919
Speaker 1: named Marty Johnstone and two other buddies of his whose

762
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: names escaped me at the moment. And these guys were

763
00:44:24,719 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: low level thugs and criminals, but they happened to meet

764
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: a marijuana a guy who had a bunch of marijuana

765
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,239
Speaker 1: who went by the name of Chinese Jack, and he

766
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: was importing pot. Once they got to dealing for him

767
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,959
Speaker 1: and getting all he was apparently importing literal, no joke,

768
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:51,879
Speaker 1: boatloads of weed, they their business took off and then

769
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: they started selling um heroin and coke and the whole

770
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: thing just went gang buster and up to the point

771
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 1: that like the cops actually took this whole drug syndicate serious.

772
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: Well there's there's when you've got a couple of punks

773
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,399
Speaker 1: who were trying to deal dime bags versus guys who

774
00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: are dealing pounds and kilos and kilos and pounds of

775
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: this stuff like mad so there and apparently they were

776
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:24,719
Speaker 1: killing a bunch of people. There's a gentleman by the

777
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: name of Terry Clark who was involved with them, and

778
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: I have I feel like maybe Terry Clark inserted himself

779
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 1: into the organization and sort of exerted control over it,

780
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: and they are he and everybody else that was in

781
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,720
Speaker 1: the top of the organization had to flee Australia because

782
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 1: Terry Clark pulled an Eddie Nash, remember Eddie Nash from

783
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,319
Speaker 1: the Wonderland Murders, where he was like going nuts and

784
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 1: just killing people in crazy coke benders. Well, he killed

785
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: a bunch of people apparently in some plan or some

786
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:06,960
Speaker 1: coked out scheme to maintain control of the operation. So

787
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:08,879
Speaker 1: while I was killing people, who just happened to kill

788
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister. Well, you would think that. Except here's

789
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,880
Speaker 1: the thing that I don't understand is to how Harold

790
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:19,400
Speaker 1: hold shows up in the mr Asia drug syndicate. The

791
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: syndicate didn't start till seventy three, which is about six

792
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: years after Harold Holt disappeared. So how in the heck

793
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 1: he is linked to it? I don't know. Maybe um,

794
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,400
Speaker 1: he was Chinese. Jack met him, it was his dealer,

795
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,879
Speaker 1: and then off him. I don't know, Like the connection

796
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 1: is so weird and it disappears that I don't know.

797
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:47,760
Speaker 1: I think you're confusing. The people are confusing the mr

798
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:53,520
Speaker 1: Asia drug Syndicate with the mr Asia sug syndicate. So

799
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 1: that's probably what it is. Yeah, maybe okay, should we

800
00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 1: move on went on the funny drug fun drug syndicate story.

801
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 1: Let's go to another fun theory, which is that it

802
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 1: was a UFO abduction. Yeah, I you know, I like

803
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: this one, actually, do you? Yeah? It's written by our

804
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 1: favorite reputable author. It really is so okay, So Devon's

805
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,680
Speaker 1: trying to give away the story here. The UFO connection

806
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:25,480
Speaker 1: showed up in a book by John Keel. You may

807
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:30,160
Speaker 1: remember John Keel. He wrote a book called Operation Trojan Horse,

808
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:34,040
Speaker 1: which is where Harold Holds disappearance ted Aliens comes from.

809
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:36,320
Speaker 1: But he also wrote a very famous book called The

810
00:47:36,400 --> 00:47:41,800
Speaker 1: Mothman Prophecy. Yeah. I found a copy of Operation Trojan

811
00:47:41,840 --> 00:47:44,920
Speaker 1: Horse on the Internet and I did some scanning through it,

812
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: and well it says that Harold hold His disappearance was

813
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:55,160
Speaker 1: predicted by the Elements. I like that you didn't put

814
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:58,720
Speaker 1: that in quotation marks though, because well, yeah, so, because

815
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:01,920
Speaker 1: because whatever. I don't know what that means. The elemental

816
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,960
Speaker 1: I don't know what that means. It's it's one damn

817
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: sentence in that silly book, and I don't know what

818
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: it is. Do you guys have any could somebody explain

819
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,399
Speaker 1: it to me? Um? I would say the elementals are

820
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 1: probably kind of like either spirits or you know, like

821
00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: like like sort of like the UK. Yeah. Yeah, but

822
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 1: it's also am prophecy, so it's not just UFOs are

823
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: probably like spirits didn't have at the world. They're like

824
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:33,480
Speaker 1: they've been here since the very beginning. Or maybe he's

825
00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 1: just talking about the periodic table of the elements. I'm

826
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:38,200
Speaker 1: not sure. The elementals could also be the name of

827
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 1: of Aliens. Based on what Joe said. I'm glad I

828
00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:45,319
Speaker 1: didn't even bother to capitalize the word elemental. Okay, okay, fine,

829
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:48,640
Speaker 1: so probably not a UFO, but fine whatever. Yeah, I

830
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 1: mean nobody saw any UFOs. I mean there could have

831
00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 1: been underwater UFOs. I suppose true, totally could have. They

832
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: just they just got a recording of an underwater uf

833
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 1: one record. There's only one recorded underwater siding that is

834
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 1: in the Abyss the movie, so they just have they

835
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: have a sound recording. Now. It's called the Bio. I

836
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,440
Speaker 1: remember Wang, the Bio Twangs. That's the one that just

837
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:17,919
Speaker 1: came out like today. They're they're accounting for all those

838
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:22,160
Speaker 1: alien noises coming out of the something Marianna trend. Yes,

839
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: I did see that come through that. I haven't had

840
00:49:24,200 --> 00:49:25,839
Speaker 1: a chance to read up on that. Okay, you can

841
00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 1: just listen to it. It sounds literally like, uh exactly.

842
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:32,080
Speaker 1: What if somebody were like, hey, I need a sound

843
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,879
Speaker 1: effect for a monster in my like action film, I'd

844
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 1: be like, I have the one for you. This is

845
00:49:37,680 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: this something that came from not Pacific Rim, but that

846
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:44,799
Speaker 1: crappy ar version Atlantic Rim. No, there was actually an

847
00:49:44,840 --> 00:49:48,320
Speaker 1: Atlantic Rim. Yeah, yeah, there was a sequel there was. Okay,

848
00:49:48,360 --> 00:49:54,479
Speaker 1: so probably not wufos. Yeah, okays, let's go Holy crap,

849
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: we got a bunch more theories here. Next theory is that,

850
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:02,440
Speaker 1: in matter of fact, Harold Holt was actually killed prior

851
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: to the seventeenth and the whole thing is cover up. Okay, Actually,

852
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 1: I guess I'm gonna bump my suicide theory down to

853
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 1: three because I like this and you already said it

854
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:17,560
Speaker 1: wasn't three. Yeah. Okay. So there's a gentleman. His name

855
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 1: is Gary Simons. He has made a claim and this

856
00:50:22,440 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 1: is all on his website, Harold dash Holt dot com

857
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:31,680
Speaker 1: that well he means business with and this claim is

858
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: that Harold Holt was killed and the reason was that

859
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:43,480
Speaker 1: he would not support the construction of Pine Gap. Pine Gap,

860
00:50:43,520 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: for anybody who doesn't know, is a joint Australian and

861
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:52,080
Speaker 1: US satellite ground station officially, which is the official, actual truth.

862
00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: So stop saying it, because that's really what it is.

863
00:50:54,080 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 1: And we're totally on board with that, not an alien installations.

864
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 1: To stop asking one. I know, Simon's so no, but

865
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:06,320
Speaker 1: Simon says that it's because Holt wouldn't support the construction

866
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:11,280
Speaker 1: of Pine Gap, and that Pine Gap is actually some

867
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 1: sort of secret operation base and he was involved in

868
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: the removal of Harold Holt's body from Harold holtz residence

869
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,799
Speaker 1: the night before. So on the night of the sixteenth,

870
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 1: he was involved by taking Holt's body out of his

871
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: house to a boat and then taking that boat out

872
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:40,439
Speaker 1: to meet another boat on the water, which then transported

873
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,560
Speaker 1: the body I guess to to chevy At Beach where

874
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:47,239
Speaker 1: it was going to be dumped and then um, but

875
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 1: it wasn't found. So presumably it was eating my sharks

876
00:51:51,719 --> 00:51:54,640
Speaker 1: or something. I really, I really, I'll be honest with you, Joe.

877
00:51:54,719 --> 00:52:00,279
Speaker 1: I don't know Simon's He sounds credible at times, like

878
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:05,640
Speaker 1: he makes statements that are rather credible and logical and

879
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 1: seem to make sense, and then there are times that

880
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: just it doesn't make any sense. Like he says he

881
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 1: was involved in he was he was a member of

882
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: the Australian Navy, and you know he listened stuff. But

883
00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: then how he went from swab in the deck to

884
00:52:22,280 --> 00:52:28,480
Speaker 1: doing wet work, I can't figure out. It's actually so, Devin,

885
00:52:29,080 --> 00:52:33,280
Speaker 1: you're gonna get to narrate today. So Simmons has something

886
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 1: on his website that describes it, and I would like

887
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,680
Speaker 1: you to read that for our listeners with an Australian accent,

888
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 1: please we're As part of my duties, I engaged in

889
00:52:45,120 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 1: several clandestine operations, one of which was the removal of

890
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 1: the body of then Australian Prime Minister Harold Holt from

891
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 1: his home out to a waiting fishing boat in the

892
00:52:56,000 --> 00:53:00,080
Speaker 1: night before it was reported he disappeared while swimming. So

893
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:05,040
Speaker 1: I okay, Well, so that's what he says on his website.

894
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:10,360
Speaker 1: He also invokes the second law, or the second law

895
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 1: of the universe, as he calls it. He constantly invokes

896
00:53:13,960 --> 00:53:17,839
Speaker 1: in second the second something of the universe, second rule,

897
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: second law. But I tried, I really I read the

898
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: guy's stuff and tried to give him a fair shake,

899
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:29,600
Speaker 1: and in the end I had to discounting because he

900
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,879
Speaker 1: sounds a little crazy. Yeah. I've seen his website, and

901
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:36,839
Speaker 1: you know, I read that that letter that he sent.

902
00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: He has a copy of his Oh, he puts all

903
00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:41,839
Speaker 1: his emails on his website. Yeah, this is a letter

904
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 1: sent to the Inquest that was in two thousand three

905
00:53:44,560 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: or five. Yes, he sent them. And actually, although a

906
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:50,560
Speaker 1: few of the claims in the letter we're kind of questionable,

907
00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:53,760
Speaker 1: it actually appeared to be well written. And quite coherent.

908
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 1: And that's that's not that that's what I'm saying. I

909
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,040
Speaker 1: believe the guy at all, but some some stuff that

910
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,040
Speaker 1: he writes appeared is to be coherent. Yeah, and it's

911
00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 1: not written by a similiterate or total whack job or anything. Yeah,

912
00:54:05,840 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: But at the same time he believes him outlandis saying, Yeah,

913
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: that's why I I was, I really for a long

914
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:14,120
Speaker 1: time try to give him just you know, I was like, Okay,

915
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna read it, I'm gonna hear him out.

916
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 1: But there's a point where I had to just stop

917
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:23,360
Speaker 1: because it's I feel like it's a little cuckoo for

918
00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 1: cocoa puffs. And so I'm not really sure what to

919
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:29,040
Speaker 1: make of his statement. He makes a lot of statements

920
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:32,080
Speaker 1: about a lot of other things aside from Harold Hold.

921
00:54:32,120 --> 00:54:34,879
Speaker 1: But I do like the idea of I'm always kind

922
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:37,000
Speaker 1: of into those ideas, like when we talk about plane

923
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 1: crashes with the zombie plane idea where it's you know,

924
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:42,840
Speaker 1: everybody on there was actually just a corpse and it

925
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:45,160
Speaker 1: was like it wasn't or it was a plant. Yeah,

926
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:48,000
Speaker 1: like everybody on the plane, right, So same with this,

927
00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 1: I'm always kind of drawn to these theories, whether they

928
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: have good credit or not. I'm always drawn to the

929
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: idea that that person wasn't actually at that place where

930
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,040
Speaker 1: they were reported to be. Why his lover would go

931
00:54:58,120 --> 00:55:01,319
Speaker 1: along with it, I'm not totally sure, but well, why

932
00:55:01,320 --> 00:55:06,040
Speaker 1: would she and three other young people and the guard

933
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,399
Speaker 1: that was at the guard station. Like suddenly our cast

934
00:55:09,440 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 1: of characters who need to be involved and agree to

935
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:16,840
Speaker 1: go along with it starts to grow. I guess she's

936
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 1: the big question mark for me because, like the rest

937
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:22,279
Speaker 1: of them are, they're not close associations with him. So

938
00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:24,960
Speaker 1: money helps a lot. But if you have a personal

939
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,760
Speaker 1: relationship with someone, I think usually you're a little less

940
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 1: likely to do that. But it would explain maybe why

941
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 1: it was her not the wife for instance. Maybe you know,

942
00:55:33,520 --> 00:55:36,160
Speaker 1: maybe she was easier to bribe. I don't know, but

943
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 1: there were a lot of people involved. Also, if he

944
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,800
Speaker 1: had to remove the body transported down to a boot. No,

945
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 1: I disagree with the method that he's proposing. I'm just

946
00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 1: saying I like the idea. I'm sorry. I think the

947
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:53,520
Speaker 1: idea is interesting that he that Harold hold could have

948
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:56,200
Speaker 1: died before and that it wasn't. No, it's an intriguing idea.

949
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,479
Speaker 1: I agree, but but like I still was saying that

950
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,839
Speaker 1: the circle is fairly wide, but it gets wider. We're

951
00:56:01,880 --> 00:56:03,920
Speaker 1: not just we're not just talking about the several people

952
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:05,640
Speaker 1: that went down to the beach with him, but the

953
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 1: guys who had to go retrieved the body. And let's

954
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:10,480
Speaker 1: forget that he retrieved the body. That means somebody else

955
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:14,160
Speaker 1: murdered him, right, So then they went down to retrieved

956
00:56:14,200 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 1: the body cofectly. He talked to his house has made

957
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:21,400
Speaker 1: that morning she was at his residence. Supposedly, she was like, again,

958
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 1: if I have to, they have to take the boat,

959
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: or have to take the body down to a marina

960
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:31,000
Speaker 1: presumably or a beach, or somewhere where they could potentially

961
00:56:31,040 --> 00:56:33,879
Speaker 1: be spotted by other people loading into a boat which

962
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:35,480
Speaker 1: goes out to another boat, which by the way, has

963
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:37,440
Speaker 1: more people on it. But they I mean, that doesn't

964
00:56:37,480 --> 00:56:39,719
Speaker 1: have that that's not necessary. They could have pulled a

965
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:41,399
Speaker 1: car up to his house and throwing him in the boot.

966
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:45,000
Speaker 1: I mean, the boat thing, I don't think it's necessary

967
00:56:45,040 --> 00:56:48,719
Speaker 1: at all. That's what he's said disposing that. But that's

968
00:56:48,719 --> 00:56:50,600
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is that I don't really give a

969
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:53,600
Speaker 1: crap about what this guy's claiming. I'm just saying that

970
00:56:53,680 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 1: the concept of Harold Holt dying before. I agree that

971
00:57:00,520 --> 00:57:05,359
Speaker 1: this whole transportation situation is dumb. That didn't happen. It is,

972
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 1: but I'm just saying that. I but since they got

973
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,319
Speaker 1: this sense of guys putting forth the theory that he

974
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 1: was murdered ahead of time and his body was transported

975
00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:18,840
Speaker 1: on the seventeen out to sea, he was murdered in

976
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 1: the sixteenth, but his body was transferred during the night

977
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:26,439
Speaker 1: sixties seventeen, and then and then it becomes like you says,

978
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:28,520
Speaker 1: he is the only one who's making the claim that

979
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: Hole was murdered prior to the seventeen, which is one

980
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 1: of the whole thing out of the water. Right. Well,

981
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: except for that, I wouldn't believe. I mean, why would

982
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 1: he come for. I mean, the people who would be

983
00:57:39,480 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: have been paid to keep their mouth shut are presumably

984
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: doing their job and keeping their dang mouth shut. Remarkably,

985
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:50,960
Speaker 1: nobody's killed him yet what's his name again? So I mean,

986
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:52,880
Speaker 1: I think, I think it's an interesting theory, but I

987
00:57:52,920 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 1: agree that it wasn't Gary nothing. It doesn't make any sense.

988
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:02,160
Speaker 1: So I'm willing to move on to the knick theory. Okay,

989
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 1: So our next theory is that, in fact, Harold Holt

990
00:58:06,800 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 1: was killed by the CIA, because the CIA is involved

991
00:58:11,000 --> 00:58:14,720
Speaker 1: in everything. We were talking at one point about the

992
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: fact that Harold Holt had come out in support of

993
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:22,400
Speaker 1: Lyndon B. Johnson and he was supporting the war effort

994
00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 1: in Vietnam against the North Vietnamese. This theory says that

995
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,440
Speaker 1: through the course of sixty six and then into sixty seven,

996
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 1: Holt B came began to have second thoughts, and he

997
00:58:35,520 --> 00:58:38,640
Speaker 1: began to think that maybe this was a bad idea,

998
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:43,040
Speaker 1: and he should possibly reduce his troop forces that we're

999
00:58:43,120 --> 00:58:48,120
Speaker 1: serving over there in an effort to stop that from happening,

1000
00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:50,320
Speaker 1: because that would be egg on the face of the

1001
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:59,080
Speaker 1: US president. These uh CIA went in and somehow assassinated him,

1002
00:58:59,200 --> 00:59:02,280
Speaker 1: whether they found him in the water, which we've already

1003
00:59:02,320 --> 00:59:05,480
Speaker 1: talked about the multitude of problems with that, or if

1004
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:10,160
Speaker 1: they began some program of poisoning him so that he

1005
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:12,880
Speaker 1: was in a weekend state when he went in the water,

1006
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:17,080
Speaker 1: so that he would then naturally succumb. Whether it be

1007
00:59:17,200 --> 00:59:19,720
Speaker 1: that trip or another time when he was in the water,

1008
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,000
Speaker 1: I don't know. But that's that's what this theory says.

1009
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:28,040
Speaker 1: I I really would be surprised to see the c

1010
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:32,560
Speaker 1: I a step up to that level. Well, I I

1011
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:36,480
Speaker 1: think so. But you know, again, you gotta remember this

1012
00:59:36,520 --> 00:59:41,200
Speaker 1: as Australia. It's as parliamentary politics. Holt wasn't just running

1013
00:59:41,240 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 1: off like a loose cannon doing whatever he felt like.

1014
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,480
Speaker 1: It wasn't as he was a supreme commander who could

1015
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,480
Speaker 1: say whatever he wanted to do. Now it was like, yeah,

1016
00:59:49,480 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 1: I mean he essentially, he essentially was a representative of

1017
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 1: his party. And so if he truly wanted to be

1018
00:59:57,320 --> 00:59:59,560
Speaker 1: out of Vietnam, and it was the whole policy was

1019
00:59:59,600 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 1: popular with every single other person in his party. Remember,

1020
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 1: your prime minister, the most you want, you know, you

1021
01:00:05,920 --> 01:00:09,160
Speaker 1: don't necessarily want what's good for Australia. What you want

1022
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,600
Speaker 1: to do is you want to hold your coalition together

1023
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,320
Speaker 1: because that means you get to keep being Prime Minister.

1024
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,880
Speaker 1: And so you don't want your coalition coming apart. So

1025
01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,160
Speaker 1: you're not going to defy your party. If your party

1026
01:00:21,200 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: is a major rift in it over you might try

1027
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,040
Speaker 1: to heal it or whatever over the Vietnam thing. But again,

1028
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,000
Speaker 1: if he was turning against it. It's because public opinion

1029
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 1: was turning against it, many members of his own party

1030
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 1: were turning against it, removing himselves nothing in terms of

1031
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:41,439
Speaker 1: you know, he's not pushes the button to stop it all.

1032
01:00:41,840 --> 01:00:43,680
Speaker 1: At the point, there's a lot of a lot of

1033
01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:46,439
Speaker 1: different people involved. So your point is this is also

1034
01:00:46,480 --> 01:00:49,960
Speaker 1: a dumb theory. Yeah, well yeah, and also well also

1035
01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: high summary ability. Well, and this is one of the

1036
01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:54,680
Speaker 1: things too, I mean, because we've heard the same thing

1037
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 1: with the Jfkigs assassination, which is a CIA, and you

1038
01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 1: wanted him dead because he was wanted to pull he

1039
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: was going to gank us out of the world. Nobody

1040
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:06,400
Speaker 1: has ever explained to me exactly why the c I

1041
01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:10,680
Speaker 1: was so heavily invested in the war in Vietnam. I mean,

1042
01:01:10,720 --> 01:01:14,000
Speaker 1: I never understood that. Nobody's ever explained that one to me.

1043
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:16,080
Speaker 1: So we're gonna get a lot of emails on that.

1044
01:01:16,120 --> 01:01:18,440
Speaker 1: We're going to set up a very special email address

1045
01:01:18,480 --> 01:01:20,800
Speaker 1: for Joe only, and we'll give that to you later

1046
01:01:20,880 --> 01:01:24,200
Speaker 1: on That email address is that theory is dumb at

1047
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. Let's move on to our next theory.

1048
01:01:29,440 --> 01:01:34,280
Speaker 1: Our next theory is quite the opposite of this theory,

1049
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,320
Speaker 1: and it is that Harold Holt was killed in a

1050
01:01:37,520 --> 01:01:43,600
Speaker 1: botched abduction attempt, and that abduction attempt was carried out

1051
01:01:43,840 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: by war not supports. What detractors is that the word

1052
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:52,840
Speaker 1: I want to use people who are in opposition. So

1053
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:56,320
Speaker 1: these people were opposed to the war. And what they

1054
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 1: in this They were probably hippies who spelled like put

1055
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 1: you really. But there Their whole plan of attack here

1056
01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:07,440
Speaker 1: was they were going to abduct Harold hold and hold

1057
01:02:07,520 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 1: him hostage up until such point that he would say,

1058
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:14,560
Speaker 1: we quit, We're getting out of Vietnam, at which point

1059
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:18,600
Speaker 1: they would let him go with a joint and a daisy. Okay,

1060
01:02:18,600 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 1: but that I made up most of that. But the

1061
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:24,080
Speaker 1: theory is that he was It was an abduction of

1062
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:28,200
Speaker 1: tent that went totally wrong, and the whole basis of

1063
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:33,320
Speaker 1: the abduction was so that they could stop the war efforts. Yeah,

1064
01:02:33,320 --> 01:02:35,520
Speaker 1: And what happened was he was he was captive, and

1065
01:02:35,640 --> 01:02:37,520
Speaker 1: they were out of the room, and he spotted a

1066
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: tray full of brownies and he was hungry, so he

1067
01:02:40,400 --> 01:02:49,120
Speaker 1: scoffed him down and he had a fatal overdose of brownies. Yeah, alright,

1068
01:02:49,360 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 1: So I think we had a little fun there, Uh, well, yeah, no, no,

1069
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 1: this is a serious no. You know what, Actually I

1070
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:57,880
Speaker 1: like the Chinese theory better than this because it simply

1071
01:02:57,960 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 1: does not involve hippies. There's that, and also the you know,

1072
01:03:02,360 --> 01:03:05,040
Speaker 1: of course their plan was completely idiotic. It never would

1073
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,840
Speaker 1: have actually worked. Well, it's silly to pluck him out

1074
01:03:07,840 --> 01:03:10,320
Speaker 1: of the water like that, Yeah, I mean, because well,

1075
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:12,520
Speaker 1: let's just not keep going down this road. Why don't

1076
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:15,120
Speaker 1: we move to the last theory on our docket here.

1077
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:20,240
Speaker 1: Our final theory is that the entire thing was a

1078
01:03:20,280 --> 01:03:24,920
Speaker 1: case of accidental drownding. For this, I believe that the

1079
01:03:24,960 --> 01:03:27,680
Speaker 1: best way to sum it up is that it is

1080
01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:31,840
Speaker 1: as simple as a man going out into the water

1081
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:37,800
Speaker 1: when he shouldn't have and overestimating his abilities in that

1082
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 1: water and succumbing for to those elements for that mistake. Sure,

1083
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:44,960
Speaker 1: I mean, and as you said, you know, you could

1084
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 1: have gotten clocked on the head by a log. Great whites,

1085
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:53,760
Speaker 1: you know, there's lots of in Australia. Okay, I'm gonna

1086
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:55,760
Speaker 1: I'm gonna stop you on the great whites bit because

1087
01:03:55,840 --> 01:03:57,400
Speaker 1: that I've got I got a couple of things I

1088
01:03:57,400 --> 01:04:00,960
Speaker 1: want to share, and great Whites playing that. Okay, but anyway,

1089
01:04:01,080 --> 01:04:02,760
Speaker 1: But there are things that can get you out there.

1090
01:04:03,160 --> 01:04:06,520
Speaker 1: You swim into it like a school of jellyfish. Kelly's

1091
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:10,520
Speaker 1: got a bad news. You go down. It is entirely possible.

1092
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:12,920
Speaker 1: It's really rough out to catch a wave. And I've

1093
01:04:12,960 --> 01:04:14,720
Speaker 1: swim in the ocean before, and you can get your

1094
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,240
Speaker 1: wave in the face and suddenly, and if you get

1095
01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:19,880
Speaker 1: it at just the right time, or I guess I

1096
01:04:19,920 --> 01:04:22,240
Speaker 1: had to say wrong time, you can inhale a little

1097
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:25,800
Speaker 1: water and that's bad news. Uh. And also, you know,

1098
01:04:25,840 --> 01:04:27,960
Speaker 1: I knew a guy when he died about maybe a

1099
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:30,720
Speaker 1: year and a half ago, and he was swimming, a

1100
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:34,480
Speaker 1: strong swimmer, very athletic, in great shape, about forty years old.

1101
01:04:34,680 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: It turns out his heart was a ticking time bomb

1102
01:04:37,600 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 1: and he had a heart attack while swimming. And nobody

1103
01:04:41,440 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 1: ever would have expected this to happen, but it happened.

1104
01:04:43,920 --> 01:04:45,640
Speaker 1: I mean, he had a heart attack and then he's round,

1105
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, and so it's possible that, you know, it

1106
01:04:49,000 --> 01:04:52,680
Speaker 1: could have been. He is a great prequel to several

1107
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: bits of information that I have about Harold Holt and

1108
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,480
Speaker 1: the conditions that day. So let's talk about the conditions.

1109
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 1: Turns out, according to the locals. When the tides in

1110
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:06,720
Speaker 1: that area turned, it wasn't uncommon to get a undertow

1111
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:10,440
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood of about ten knots. Not is equivalent

1112
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: roughly to about one mile an hour. One not one

1113
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:17,200
Speaker 1: mile an hour roughly. Nobody give me. I knew Joe

1114
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: would do this too. So ten knots comes out to

1115
01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:23,880
Speaker 1: eleven point five miles per hour or eighteen point five

1116
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: kilometers per at per hour, which you know, it doesn't

1117
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: sound that fast to people who aren't thinking about it,

1118
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,520
Speaker 1: but the normal person walks at about three miles per hour,

1119
01:05:35,040 --> 01:05:37,680
Speaker 1: so you triple that. That's a good pace. I wanted

1120
01:05:37,720 --> 01:05:40,240
Speaker 1: to try and come up with something about you know, oh, well,

1121
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:42,800
Speaker 1: if you think about how fast an Olympic runner goes,

1122
01:05:42,840 --> 01:05:46,120
Speaker 1: except Hussein Bolt goes at twenty miles per hour, so

1123
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 1: he kind of blew that water on me. I mean, okay,

1124
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 1: but you can't use him as like a I was

1125
01:05:51,080 --> 01:05:57,040
Speaker 1: hoping to accepting the second How about the seventeenth fastest? Yeah,

1126
01:05:57,880 --> 01:06:00,520
Speaker 1: but to give you an idea of how bad then was,

1127
01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:05,320
Speaker 1: I've seen the helicopter footage flying over and it wasn't

1128
01:06:05,360 --> 01:06:07,880
Speaker 1: It was really bad, and there was lots of waves

1129
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:11,200
Speaker 1: crashing around and those divers that we talked about in

1130
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:13,280
Speaker 1: the beginning of When they went in for to look

1131
01:06:13,320 --> 01:06:17,120
Speaker 1: for the body, they had to wait until the twenty

1132
01:06:17,320 --> 01:06:21,880
Speaker 1: three December, six days after he had disappeared, before it

1133
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:25,520
Speaker 1: was calm enough for them to comb the bottom, because

1134
01:06:25,720 --> 01:06:28,600
Speaker 1: a lot of people thought, well, Harold Holds body got

1135
01:06:28,680 --> 01:06:31,280
Speaker 1: swept into the rocks on the bottom and it's probably

1136
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 1: wedged down there. It took that long before they could

1137
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:36,480
Speaker 1: even get down there, and then of course they didn't

1138
01:06:36,600 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 1: find anything, um because he'd been abducted. Because he'd been abducted.

1139
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:44,439
Speaker 1: Yet we we talked about the fact that he had

1140
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:47,960
Speaker 1: the hurt shoulder um and oh Dr Edwards, that's the

1141
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 1: guy who he played tennis with, who had supported the

1142
01:06:51,280 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 1: fact that yeah, it was still bothering him. And then

1143
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:58,600
Speaker 1: there's the fact that m he apparently was having some

1144
01:06:58,800 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 1: other health issues because as he had collapsed earlier that

1145
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:06,400
Speaker 1: year in parliament. Though that was everybody claimed that that

1146
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 1: was from a vitamin deficiency. Though now people say, as

1147
01:07:10,240 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 1: you alluded to Joe with the guy that you knew about,

1148
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 1: that it was a heart problem and that that may

1149
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:19,640
Speaker 1: have been why he felt or collapsed Holt had also

1150
01:07:19,720 --> 01:07:23,439
Speaker 1: been swimming as Chevot Beach earlier that year and had

1151
01:07:23,480 --> 01:07:27,040
Speaker 1: to be rescued because he had problems swimming in the surf.

1152
01:07:27,760 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 1: So there's a whole bunch of things, and it it's

1153
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 1: sad to say, but for me, it adds up to

1154
01:07:33,640 --> 01:07:37,360
Speaker 1: a guy who has past his prime and doesn't want

1155
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 1: to admit that he isn't as good as he was.

1156
01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:42,800
Speaker 1: And damn it, I can make it through that. And

1157
01:07:42,840 --> 01:07:47,080
Speaker 1: I know this water, and he overestimated what he was

1158
01:07:47,120 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 1: capable have been like showing off, it could have been that.

1159
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 1: But I also it actually could have been that, like

1160
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:55,720
Speaker 1: say an accident or a heart attack. It could have

1161
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 1: been that. Say if he hadn't gotten clocked by a

1162
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:01,360
Speaker 1: log or attack lash arc or had a heart attack,

1163
01:08:01,360 --> 01:08:03,400
Speaker 1: it could have been that. If none of those things

1164
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 1: had happened, he could have gone out, swam around, come

1165
01:08:05,960 --> 01:08:08,840
Speaker 1: right back. He was an experienced guy. He knew how

1166
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:11,200
Speaker 1: to deal with riptides. There there are ways to deal

1167
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:14,440
Speaker 1: with very simple. Yeah, oh yeah, it's easy. And so

1168
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:16,720
Speaker 1: I think he could easily have survived the conditions of

1169
01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:19,519
Speaker 1: the day. I think probably something else happened well, But

1170
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:22,760
Speaker 1: I also wonder if maybe he you know, if it's

1171
01:08:22,760 --> 01:08:25,000
Speaker 1: one of those situations where he's not feeling all that

1172
01:08:25,040 --> 01:08:27,639
Speaker 1: great once he gets out there, but he decides not

1173
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:31,200
Speaker 1: to stop because he can do better, because he had

1174
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:34,160
Speaker 1: done some rather foolish things in the water. I think

1175
01:08:34,160 --> 01:08:37,400
Speaker 1: it was it was only like three years earlier that

1176
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:41,880
Speaker 1: somebody had introduced him to spear fishing, and he was

1177
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:46,160
Speaker 1: known for spear fishing and getting a fish with that,

1178
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 1: you know, pulling it off of the spear, a still

1179
01:08:48,280 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 1: bleeding fish, unzipping his wet suit, shoving that fish into

1180
01:08:53,400 --> 01:08:56,479
Speaker 1: his wet suit, and then still zipping it up in

1181
01:08:56,600 --> 01:08:59,920
Speaker 1: waters which have great white swimming around. And this isn't

1182
01:09:00,040 --> 01:09:02,080
Speaker 1: just like you know, here in the Pacific Northwest there's

1183
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 1: a chance there might be a shark. Now there's totally

1184
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:09,160
Speaker 1: sharks around and it's a known thing. So he does

1185
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:15,120
Speaker 1: he exercises maybe not the best decision making while in

1186
01:09:15,120 --> 01:09:18,320
Speaker 1: the water. Yeah, he's uh, kind of like the guy

1187
01:09:18,320 --> 01:09:20,479
Speaker 1: who camped out with the bears up in Alaska. Well

1188
01:09:20,479 --> 01:09:23,879
Speaker 1: that you know that that guy is a whole another

1189
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:26,679
Speaker 1: level of stupid. Oh yeah, definitely a whole another level,

1190
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:28,800
Speaker 1: but kind of similar in a sense. Though he got

1191
01:09:28,840 --> 01:09:31,280
Speaker 1: he thought that he had a special relationship with the sea,

1192
01:09:31,880 --> 01:09:33,720
Speaker 1: and he had like that guy thought he had a

1193
01:09:33,720 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 1: special relationship with the bears. It turns out in the end, well,

1194
01:09:36,720 --> 01:09:38,920
Speaker 1: now it's not true. He was a little bit deluted

1195
01:09:38,960 --> 01:09:43,800
Speaker 1: about that. Nature is still going to bite your face off. Yeah. Probably. Okay,

1196
01:09:44,439 --> 01:09:48,000
Speaker 1: that's all I have for theories. Do you guys have

1197
01:09:48,040 --> 01:09:50,360
Speaker 1: any other pet theories that we haven't talked about or

1198
01:09:50,360 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 1: any thank me, thank I think political competitors. So what

1199
01:09:58,240 --> 01:10:02,400
Speaker 1: you're saying is is mcmuhn swam out and down. Harold

1200
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:06,559
Speaker 1: didn't swam away and nobody saw it. He anticipated whole

1201
01:10:06,600 --> 01:10:09,280
Speaker 1: will be swimming there that day and the time he

1202
01:10:09,400 --> 01:10:12,760
Speaker 1: released his sharks into that bay, his cyber sharks, yea,

1203
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:16,920
Speaker 1: his remote controls cyber shark drones. Or he could have

1204
01:10:16,960 --> 01:10:20,040
Speaker 1: been just hiding out in the surf with the scuba

1205
01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 1: tank on under Yeah, no, I don't. I think it's

1206
01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:30,280
Speaker 1: likely that he just kind of overestimated his ability and

1207
01:10:30,479 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 1: went out and was lost for the ages. Yeah, that's

1208
01:10:35,960 --> 01:10:39,160
Speaker 1: my top theory. I would say kind of like that theory. Actually,

1209
01:10:39,640 --> 01:10:41,920
Speaker 1: I really liked the idea that that he was part

1210
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:44,680
Speaker 1: of a drug ring that didn't exist, because that just

1211
01:10:44,760 --> 01:10:48,880
Speaker 1: makes it mist more amazing. It was an alien drug

1212
01:10:48,960 --> 01:10:51,960
Speaker 1: ring that was set in the future, but they sent

1213
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:57,599
Speaker 1: an agent back in time, Harold hold from breaking it up. Wait,

1214
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,439
Speaker 1: that's terminator. Yeah sort of, I was to say. And

1215
01:11:00,560 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 1: that agent was named Harold Holt. Yeah, there's a lot

1216
01:11:04,920 --> 01:11:07,320
Speaker 1: of assertain to hear like that. There was he was

1217
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:10,920
Speaker 1: murdered because he was opposed to the Pine Gap facility,

1218
01:11:10,520 --> 01:11:13,920
Speaker 1: when in fact that was that was already going on,

1219
01:11:14,000 --> 01:11:17,680
Speaker 1: that was already going on before he was there. And uh,

1220
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:21,040
Speaker 1: if he was willing to participate in Vietnam, that would

1221
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:24,000
Speaker 1: mean he and his party were kind of cold war hawks,

1222
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 1: and the Pine Gap thing, well, that's that's cold war

1223
01:11:27,360 --> 01:11:29,920
Speaker 1: hawk activity. And so I can't imagine why he would

1224
01:11:29,920 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 1: have been opposed to that or his party. So just

1225
01:11:32,000 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 1: for folks who don't know, what do you mean by

1226
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 1: cold war hawk, cold war hawk as and as and

1227
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:38,720
Speaker 1: if you were a cold war Hawk and you were

1228
01:11:38,720 --> 01:11:41,400
Speaker 1: in the West, and that meant you were opposed to

1229
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:45,280
Speaker 1: the Soviets, the Chinese, the whole communism thing. And as

1230
01:11:45,320 --> 01:11:46,840
Speaker 1: you know, we had this thing since the end of

1231
01:11:46,840 --> 01:11:50,679
Speaker 1: World War Two up until basically it was star of course,

1232
01:11:50,720 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 1: but basically until the collapse of the Soviet Union. It

1233
01:11:53,960 --> 01:11:56,720
Speaker 1: was what we called the Cold War get down. The

1234
01:11:56,760 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 1: Hawks were the ones who were watching more tight you know,

1235
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:03,520
Speaker 1: hawks were as as in more a little more warlike,

1236
01:12:04,080 --> 01:12:10,680
Speaker 1: more anti Soviet, more anti communists, more aggressive. Well, I

1237
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:12,640
Speaker 1: was trying to figure out if it was hawk as

1238
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:15,559
Speaker 1: in aggressive or hawk as in watching. I was thinking

1239
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:17,639
Speaker 1: I was taking it as more of a satellite, because

1240
01:12:17,920 --> 01:12:21,160
Speaker 1: Pine Gap is a satellite, say station, Okay, I understand

1241
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 1: where you're coming from. Yeah, well, ladies, and gent's I

1242
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:27,040
Speaker 1: think that's all we've got for this one. If you

1243
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:30,519
Speaker 1: want to read some of the research that we have done.

1244
01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:35,479
Speaker 1: I will definitely make the uh the National Archive data

1245
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:39,639
Speaker 1: available because thank you again to those folks that will

1246
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:43,560
Speaker 1: be on our website. That website is thinking Sideways podcast

1247
01:12:43,840 --> 01:12:47,639
Speaker 1: dot com on that website, like I said, we're gonna

1248
01:12:47,720 --> 01:12:50,400
Speaker 1: have those links, will have you can listen to any

1249
01:12:50,400 --> 01:12:54,760
Speaker 1: episode there downloader stream. There will be merch available on

1250
01:12:54,760 --> 01:12:57,599
Speaker 1: the website on the right hand side for both Zazzle

1251
01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:02,240
Speaker 1: and Red Bubbles. So shirts and coffee mugs and sticks

1252
01:13:02,280 --> 01:13:04,800
Speaker 1: and all kinds of fun stuff were based on what

1253
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:07,880
Speaker 1: Devon is currently wearing. Obviously, we need to make a

1254
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:10,799
Speaker 1: tuk wait not a two kis. That's just a regular

1255
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 1: stocking cape. It's a beanie. We need to make a

1256
01:13:13,320 --> 01:13:19,720
Speaker 1: beanie insulting my hat. No, you need a Thinking Sideways

1257
01:13:19,760 --> 01:13:24,400
Speaker 1: hat obviously enough, because you're wearing the boring plane black one.

1258
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:26,360
Speaker 1: That's true, although I do have to admit I don't

1259
01:13:26,360 --> 01:13:30,160
Speaker 1: own anything that's Thinking Sideways branded. So damn. We just

1260
01:13:30,320 --> 01:13:34,720
Speaker 1: finished our Christmas exchange. Okay, alright, well, well what else

1261
01:13:34,720 --> 01:13:37,480
Speaker 1: can we give you? Well, we are available on iTunes

1262
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:39,679
Speaker 1: and I know a lot of people get their podcast

1263
01:13:39,720 --> 01:13:42,000
Speaker 1: through iTunes, and if you do, please do take the

1264
01:13:42,000 --> 01:13:44,760
Speaker 1: time to leave a comment and a rating. We are

1265
01:13:44,800 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 1: also available on a lot of the streaming sources, so

1266
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:51,759
Speaker 1: I know it's Google Play and Stitcher and a whole

1267
01:13:51,920 --> 01:13:55,680
Speaker 1: other most of them out there. We are also going

1268
01:13:55,720 --> 01:13:58,920
Speaker 1: to be on the social media, so we have a

1269
01:13:59,400 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 1: Facebook age and the Facebook group, which were very busy

1270
01:14:02,080 --> 01:14:04,920
Speaker 1: and lots of good stuff there. We are on Twitter

1271
01:14:05,000 --> 01:14:07,479
Speaker 1: where we're putting out lots of fun stuff. On Twitter,

1272
01:14:07,560 --> 01:14:10,920
Speaker 1: we're Thinking Sideways without the G in the middle. We

1273
01:14:11,000 --> 01:14:15,760
Speaker 1: are on Reddit. Our subreddit is Thinking Sideways, And of

1274
01:14:15,800 --> 01:14:18,280
Speaker 1: course you can always go ahead and get a hold

1275
01:14:18,280 --> 01:14:19,680
Speaker 1: of us if you want to get ahold of us

1276
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:24,240
Speaker 1: via email that would be Thinking Sideways Podcast at gmail

1277
01:14:24,320 --> 01:14:28,640
Speaker 1: dot com, where you can send in story suggestions, concerns,

1278
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:32,120
Speaker 1: general accolades, whatever you want to share. We will totally,

1279
01:14:32,120 --> 01:14:35,880
Speaker 1: totally happily chat with you about any of that. That

1280
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:39,960
Speaker 1: having been said, I've really i've really got nothing else

1281
01:14:40,040 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 1: to float here, so I think we have plumbed the

1282
01:14:42,560 --> 01:14:45,600
Speaker 1: depths of the mystery. I don't have anything for this.

1283
01:14:45,720 --> 01:14:48,840
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, all right. Well then, ladies and gentlemen, well

1284
01:14:48,920 --> 01:14:50,920
Speaker 1: talk to you next week. By guys