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Speaker 1: Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda land Audio

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Speaker 1: in partnership with I Heart Radio. Following through is the

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Speaker 1: most important thing I have found with my son. It's

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Speaker 1: also a lesson in like making sure that the threat

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Speaker 1: that you made is something you can follow through that.

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Speaker 1: We were sitting in front of some people on an

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Speaker 1: airplane once and they told their kid, if you keep

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Speaker 1: kicking the seat like, we're going to leave you on

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Speaker 1: the airplane. Guys, I am so excited about today. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to Katie's Crib. You guys. I have someone who's

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Speaker 1: like pretty much a big deal in the parenting space today.

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Speaker 1: Her name is Emily Aust. She might be the most

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Speaker 1: different brained person I've had on this show. Emily Astar

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Speaker 1: is an economist and her brain works, let's just say,

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Speaker 1: on the left side, whereas I'm sort of more on

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Speaker 1: the right side creative arts, fartsy type. But she and

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Speaker 1: I talked so much about her books Expecting Better and

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Speaker 1: Crib Sheet, which were staples in my house during my

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Speaker 1: pregnancy and when I had small, small babies. We talk

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Speaker 1: a lot today about her third book, The Family Firm,

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Speaker 1: a data driven guide to better decision making. In the

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Speaker 1: early school years. It's out now be shorted by your

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Speaker 1: copy wherever books are sold. She also has been hugely

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Speaker 1: helpful to me during this time because she has a

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Speaker 1: newsletter and on Instagram. She focuses a lot on helping

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Speaker 1: us parents small unvaccinated children through COVID and is helping

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Speaker 1: us cipher through all of the information during this COVID

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Speaker 1: time of parenting. She and I talked a lot about

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Speaker 1: how to run the family in the early school years,

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Speaker 1: why a business model might work for big decision making

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Speaker 1: within your family. She's a professor of economics at Brown University.

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Speaker 1: Her academic work focuses on health economics and statistical methods.

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Speaker 1: Her work has been featured in The New York Times,

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Speaker 1: The Wall Street Journal, of The Atlantic, CNBC Ian Moore.

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Speaker 1: She's married to an economist, Jesse Shapiro. So I guess

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Speaker 1: somewhere far, far far distant, she and I might be related,

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Speaker 1: or our husbands are related. Who the hell knows. She

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Speaker 1: has two children, Penelope and Finn. Emily Welcome to Katie's crib.

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Speaker 1: I am so thrilled and honored today to have the

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Speaker 1: one and only Emily Auster here, And it's so weird

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Speaker 1: because I'm so woo woo and emotional and like actory

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Speaker 1: and you're an economist, which I don't even think I've

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Speaker 1: said that word in my life. But what I find,

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Speaker 1: what quiets and eases my emotional headspace is your fact

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Speaker 1: finding and your cut and dry factual nature is so

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Speaker 1: relatable and accessible to new moms, moms with toddler's and

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Speaker 1: now moms. Thank you to the Family Firm for the

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Speaker 1: early school years. Can you just tell us for those

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Speaker 1: listening who don't know who Emily Astar is? First, follow

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Speaker 1: her on Instagram, Second, subscribe to her newsletter. Third, get

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Speaker 1: her books and tell your friends to get her books.

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Speaker 1: How's that? How's that? That's great? That's a good in

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Speaker 1: that's a good good for us? Okay, but first, like,

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Speaker 1: just in short, because I want to spend most of

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Speaker 1: the Today's talking about Family Firm, But can you tell

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Speaker 1: us just a little bit for anyone who may not know?

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Speaker 1: Expecting better and crib sheet the quick pitch, Good luck,

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Speaker 1: the quick pitch. So I think it's easiest to sort

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Speaker 1: of say why I wrote them, um, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: I am a person who likes data and facts and

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Speaker 1: who more than anything else likes to understand why. And

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Speaker 1: when I got pregnant with my daughter, who is now

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Speaker 1: like ten, there was a lot of do this without why.

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Speaker 1: This was a sort of like here's your list of

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Speaker 1: things not to do, and you'd be like why, and

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Speaker 1: they'd be like, well, it's on the list. Didn't you

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Speaker 1: get the list? We can get you another copy. It's like,

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Speaker 1: not have the list, And so, you know, expecting better

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Speaker 1: is really kind of like what the data behind pregnancy?

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Speaker 1: It's a sort of like crazy neurotic ladies like dig

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Speaker 1: in too, you know, how do we think about that data?

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Speaker 1: What's good data, what's not good data? Why do they

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Speaker 1: tell you not to have sushi is the same reason

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Speaker 1: they tell you not to have Deli turkey? It's not

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Speaker 1: the same reason. It turns out, like, how can you

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Speaker 1: sort of parse those different, um, those different things to

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Speaker 1: make choices that are that are informed, um, that are

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Speaker 1: sort of your choices. It's like, guys, here's the list

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Speaker 1: of why eating sushi during pregnancy factually might be bad,

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Speaker 1: and here are the statistics and numbers of what could

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Speaker 1: happen if something goes wrong. And here's the list of

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Speaker 1: people who do eat sushi during pregnancy. You know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. It's like, I'm just going to give you

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Speaker 1: all the hard, fast, true criteria so that you can

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Speaker 1: make the decision that you want to make rather than

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Speaker 1: what we're told, which is no caffeine, no sushi, no

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Speaker 1: alcohol whatever. Now between us, I had sushi and and

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Speaker 1: then again here I am seeing like I had sushi,

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Speaker 1: and I drank wine for both my pregnancies, and I

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Speaker 1: had turkey meat. All I craved was DELI me like

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Speaker 1: craved it. A weirdly large number of people create delling

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Speaker 1: meats who like to will be like, well, normally I

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Speaker 1: don't like to. For me, it was like tuna melts.

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Speaker 1: That was like, I was just like in normal life,

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Speaker 1: I don't I mean, I don't really like a tuna melt,

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Speaker 1: but it was just like I don't know, like the

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Speaker 1: baby is just like I love tuna. Oh hilarious. So

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Speaker 1: Expecting Better really focuses on a lot of these pregnancy

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Speaker 1: knows we're getting and you must and you have to

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Speaker 1: in all of this. And because you're an economist and

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Speaker 1: your parents are also both, and my husband and your husband,

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Speaker 1: everyone's an economist. And also, by the way, you married

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Speaker 1: Jesse Shapiro, the economist, and I'm married Adam Shapiro, the actor. Nice,

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Speaker 1: So our children are all Shapiro's. They're all Shapiros. Your

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Speaker 1: kids are all Shapiros. Even though you're still alot and

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Speaker 1: I'm still in Austra. I love it. I love it.

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Speaker 1: I love it. Okay, so everyone what I love? Expecting

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Speaker 1: better but quickly, even though it deserves so much more time.

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Speaker 1: Are there actually things to be afraid of? Because like,

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Speaker 1: if you're just have a little iota of critical thinking

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Speaker 1: in your head and you're curious, I find that information

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Speaker 1: is power. When I know I'm all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: not nervous about it, it just makes more sense. I think.

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Speaker 1: The other thing is, you know, I, particularly as you

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Speaker 1: sort of move to like end a pregnancy and thing

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Speaker 1: about childbirth and all this stuff, I think that there's

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Speaker 1: like such an information asymmetry that it's almost hard to

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Speaker 1: have those conversations about like what kind of birth do

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Speaker 1: you want to have with your medical provider because you

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Speaker 1: don't know anything. And I think there's a little bit

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Speaker 1: of this book which is like, look, I am not

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Speaker 1: a medical doctor. I do not you do not want

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Speaker 1: me in the delivery room. But you know you read

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Speaker 1: this you can get a better sense of like how

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Speaker 1: should I think about induction? How do I think about

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Speaker 1: an epidural? Like how should I understand labor? So then

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Speaker 1: your questions you're just not like, well where does that

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Speaker 1: come out of? You know, and it's more like, okay,

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Speaker 1: now I understand some of this data and we can

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Speaker 1: be having more informed conversation. It's so great and oddly

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Speaker 1: goes very well with my emotional woo woo l a

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Speaker 1: actory mind. So there you have it, okay. And now

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Speaker 1: then we had thank God for crib sheet? Did I

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Speaker 1: get it to you? In times? And I s people

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Speaker 1: are like you like miss me, my hear you get Okay? No,

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Speaker 1: I have a three and a half year old and

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Speaker 1: I have a seven month old, so I would I'm

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Speaker 1: in the crib sheet wonder years like I'm like in

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Speaker 1: the perfect spot, but tell us about crib sheet. So

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Speaker 1: crib sheet is really sort of this equel so like

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Speaker 1: expecting better kind of ends in the delivery room. Grip

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Speaker 1: sheet starts in the delivery room. I think the last

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Speaker 1: chapter in the first chapter actually really similar. And then

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Speaker 1: it goes through all this early child like early baby stuff,

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Speaker 1: sleep training, co sleeping, breastfeeding, you know, kind of ending

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Speaker 1: around potty training with all the same idea about like

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Speaker 1: let's think about what the data is. You know, people

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Speaker 1: tell you if you don't breastfeed your kid, they'll never

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Speaker 1: have superpowers, and in fact, like that's not true. They're

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Speaker 1: not going to have superpowers even if you do a

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Speaker 1: breastfeed them. Or like I love the chapter on like

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Speaker 1: will TV make your child an idiot? It's like, in

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Speaker 1: truth like this, the actual studies that exist in the world,

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Speaker 1: Emily Austar has looked at them, has gone over them

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Speaker 1: with a fine tooth comb, Like what's out there when

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Speaker 1: you study thousands and thousands of kids in the amount

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Speaker 1: of TV they've watched, Like right now, thus far, there's

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Speaker 1: nothing out there that really says ship. To be honest exactly,

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Speaker 1: my husband was allowed one hour of TV and the

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Speaker 1: one hour he chose was The Cosby Show. I watched

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Speaker 1: TV on my teenage Mutanta Turtle Dinner Tray every day

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Speaker 1: from four to seven Monday through Friday. And I'm an actor,

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Speaker 1: so who the hell knows, but we're both actors. See,

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Speaker 1: my parents are like very regimented. We could have one

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Speaker 1: hour of TV a day. It was like only MPBS

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Speaker 1: we get to watch Square one and my husband like

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Speaker 1: watched TV all the time, he like, and so now

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Speaker 1: you know, we have the same job. And I think

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of that stuff in that time where

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Speaker 1: it's sort of like we don't know that much, but

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Speaker 1: what we do know suggests that like for the most part,

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Speaker 1: it's a little bit dealer's choice, Like you kind of

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Speaker 1: should feel confident in whatever the choices are that work

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Speaker 1: for your family, because you know, is this an opportunity

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Speaker 1: to mess up my kids? Like no, it's not neither

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to mess get up or like optimize your kids.

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Speaker 1: You gotta do what what makes you happy. So good

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Speaker 1: and now this past year, I feel like you are

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Speaker 1: part of my everyday life. Emily A. Stir has taken

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Speaker 1: her incredible economist fact seeking, fact finding deciphering all of

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Speaker 1: the information in the information age for us regarding COVID

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Speaker 1: and children, the CDC has kind of left the kids

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Speaker 1: have been left out of the equation. So just right

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Speaker 1: like because they're not the ones getting very very sick,

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Speaker 1: they're not vaccinated, we don't know if they can be

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Speaker 1: around grandma and grandpa. We don't know if we can

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Speaker 1: take them to visit family they haven't seen in two years,

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Speaker 1: and no one's giving us the answers. Your newsletter has

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Speaker 1: been such a game changer. Are you like the only

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Speaker 1: person helping us? Is there anybody? There are many, I think,

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Speaker 1: really good, really good people who are sort of writing

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Speaker 1: about this, people in this space, But what there isn't

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Speaker 1: is like the CDC, which is kind of what we need.

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Speaker 1: So interesting to think about how, particularly in the kids stuff,

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Speaker 1: like the difference in attitudes between the US and Europe.

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Speaker 1: Europe it's not just that they had more in person school,

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Speaker 1: which of course is true, it's also then I think

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Speaker 1: the whole attitude was like, Okay, kids are not high risk,

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Speaker 1: and you know, but we're gonna need to make some

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Speaker 1: sacrifices to protect some older people. But we're going to

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Speaker 1: try not to make kids sacrifice if we can. And

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Speaker 1: then you know, once old people are vaccinated, like we're

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Speaker 1: going to kind of like let kids do you know,

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Speaker 1: do their thing. And I think here we're willing to

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Speaker 1: make kids sacrifice more and are kind of then having

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Speaker 1: a lot of trouble backing away from some of the fear.

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Speaker 1: Their fear has outpaced there their reality I completely agree.

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Speaker 1: The thing that I tried to do a lot of

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Speaker 1: this this year was the sort of like here's the data,

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Speaker 1: and here's the decision framing around it. It's gonna tell

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Speaker 1: you something. It's not gonna tell you everything. People are

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Speaker 1: going to have different risk tolerances. You need a way

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Speaker 1: to take that data and translated into a decision, and

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Speaker 1: that that's the piece. It's so hard. It's not that

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Speaker 1: you can't see what the case rates are. It's just

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Speaker 1: like some abstract number. And I think that's that's been

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Speaker 1: the really hard thing. Did you have a newsletter before? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So what happened is my publisher at some point was like,

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Speaker 1: this is like December, and they were like, look, why

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Speaker 1: don't you like start a newsletter. You can like write

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Speaker 1: every month or so. It'll be like a good way

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Speaker 1: to just like stay in contact and when the book

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Speaker 1: comes out, you can you know, right a little more

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Speaker 1: and like people can. Okay, fine, So I was like

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Speaker 1: all right, So January I started the newsletter and then

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Speaker 1: the fourth post is like, hey has anyone a lot

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Speaker 1: then I started writing much more about that, partly because

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Speaker 1: I think the sort of big pivot was like at

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Speaker 1: some point in May, I wrote this really long post

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Speaker 1: about should I see my camp parents? And that post

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Speaker 1: had like a half million views. It got people in,

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Speaker 1: and then here we are eighteen months later, and I

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Speaker 1: have so much giant peanut butter. And also it's a

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Speaker 1: totally different job. You know. I spent the whole last year, like,

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Speaker 1: while I was doing all this stuff, I was also

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Speaker 1: the chair of the Tenure and Promotions Committee at the university,

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Speaker 1: and I had, like, I have like a real job.

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Speaker 1: I read everybody's tenure packets the whole university. How do

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Speaker 1: you sleep and you have two children? Correct? We even

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Speaker 1: talked about this. I did not do a lot of

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Speaker 1: economics research over the last year. I did a lot

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Speaker 1: of this other COVID research and family firm situation. How

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Speaker 1: old are your children? Six and ten? Okay, so this

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Speaker 1: brings us into your most recent book, The Family Firm.

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Speaker 1: I just had my first conversation about like, what are

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Speaker 1: you lottering into for public school? And I was like,

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Speaker 1: B B b b B. This sounds like hell on Earth.

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Speaker 1: And so I'm about to embark into the family firm situation.

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Speaker 1: So this is your new book. It's called The Family

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Speaker 1: Firm and Data Driven Guide to Better Decision Making the

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Speaker 1: early school years. You do use the things that we

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Speaker 1: know and love about you from krypteet and expecting better

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Speaker 1: than data driven stuff. But things have had to shift.

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Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about this book. This book,

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Speaker 1: I think is in some ways really quite different expecting

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Speaker 1: better kryptiet. These are kind of like p says of

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Speaker 1: this that are sort of exactly that. Next you know,

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Speaker 1: there are pieces like, Okay, you know I told you

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Speaker 1: about the party training dat or I told you about

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Speaker 1: the screen time data in little kids. Now let's look

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Speaker 1: at this, you know, how do we think about the

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Speaker 1: screen time data and big kids? What do we know

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Speaker 1: about social media? And then there's some stuff on schools

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Speaker 1: and extracurriculus, and like there's you know, there's pieces that

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Speaker 1: are kind of the data pieces. How much sleep does

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Speaker 1: your kid need? How do I learn to read? Like

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Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. But the thing about this

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Speaker 1: era of like parenting is it is hard in a

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Speaker 1: different way. It's almost like the primacy of logistics, sort

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Speaker 1: of logistics and unexpected decisions, right, and sort of, so

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Speaker 1: much of my job is like, like who's going to

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Speaker 1: drive my kids and stuff? Should they go to things

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Speaker 1: that we have to drive to? Right? And I think

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Speaker 1: part of what happens is we aren't always as intentional

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Speaker 1: about those choices as we might be. For example, which

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Speaker 1: rank very true to me in the book, but like

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Speaker 1: my nephew was like, I want to play soccer. He's

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Speaker 1: like seven or something, and he got on the travel

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Speaker 1: League and then all of a sudden, it's what you said.

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Speaker 1: His parents spent like six months driving their child all

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Speaker 1: over the state of Virginia to play soccer, and the

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Speaker 1: kid doesn't like soccer anymore. And I'm like, well, that

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Speaker 1: was really ridiculous. I mean you could say, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe travel soccer is what you envisioned, but if you

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Speaker 1: didn't envision travel soccer and you sort of said yes

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Speaker 1: because you kind of didn't think that much about or

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Speaker 1: you know, you just sort of like they were whining

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Speaker 1: or for whatever reason, like the sort of choices that

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Speaker 1: we make, that's going to matter a lot. And so

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Speaker 1: I think there's a sort of argument here for intentionality,

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Speaker 1: and so there's a big part of the first part

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Speaker 1: of the book which is like kind of how do

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Speaker 1: you scaffold that intentionality? And so actually there's some work

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Speaker 1: and I think this is a thing that like for

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Speaker 1: the people who are like I thought you were the

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Speaker 1: lady who told me I could have sushi, and I

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Speaker 1: read your first book and you said that I could

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Speaker 1: have sushi and that my kids could watch the TV

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Speaker 1: and it would be okay, And then like that was great,

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Speaker 1: and now you're now you give me worksheets. Like now

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Speaker 1: you're like the worksheet lady. I'm asking people to come

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Speaker 1: along a little bit, like to say, like, listen, you

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Speaker 1: trust me on that stuff. Come along a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Let's try. I suspect that for more people than realize

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Speaker 1: this that was sitting with this a little bit and

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Speaker 1: thinking it wouldn't be so hard to like write down,

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Speaker 1: what are the three things in the day that I

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Speaker 1: really want to have? So tell me about this business model.

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Speaker 1: Now that you're asking us to come along and do

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Speaker 1: a little bit of like some business e organization for

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Speaker 1: your family, walk me through the framework in the family system.

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Speaker 1: The analogy to business is just that businesses do not

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Speaker 1: make their decisions on a whim. When you are running

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Speaker 1: a business, you do not just sign up for travel

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Speaker 1: soccer just to appease your kid who's winding that minute

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Speaker 1: exactly when your employee comes in winds to you about

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Speaker 1: wanting like you don't just do things. That's the most

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Speaker 1: important sort of business analogy. And then there are some

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Speaker 1: other like more more really businessy things, which is like, okay,

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Speaker 1: businesses have like systems for follow up or assistance for

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Speaker 1: decision making, and so I've got this basically four step

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Speaker 1: system for big decisions. Oh, the four fs. Yeah, so okay,

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Speaker 1: the family board meeting is happening. Take us through the

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Speaker 1: four FS of if you were going to decide to

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Speaker 1: send your kid to sleep with kid. The first F

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Speaker 1: is to frame the question, think about what are the

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Speaker 1: realistic alternatives? The question of sleepway camp has been raised

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Speaker 1: your kids, like I want to go, you know, Matilda

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Speaker 1: win whatever it is, you know, and you know, so

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Speaker 1: you want to say, like, okay, a is this realistic

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Speaker 1: like sleep we camp course money. There are some constraints

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Speaker 1: in it, maybe that that's like that feasible and we're

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Speaker 1: not having that conversation, and that's fine. You kind of

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Speaker 1: want to get to a question of like are we

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Speaker 1: doing extra y? In this case, it's probably are we

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Speaker 1: going to sleep away camp or not? And I think

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Speaker 1: then or not? Sometimes I tell people like or not

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Speaker 1: not an option, but here like we're not kind of

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Speaker 1: is an option because it's sort of obvious what the

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Speaker 1: default is. But I think there's a there's a sort

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Speaker 1: of space there for saying there to take a moment

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Speaker 1: at the beginning and just ask is this really a

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Speaker 1: question that we can answer that we would be able

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Speaker 1: to answer in a concrete way, So are we going

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Speaker 1: to sleepway camp or not? Second f is fact find,

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Speaker 1: which is a rapper for get all the information you

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Speaker 1: need and it's something like sleepaway camp. I put that

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Speaker 1: in sort of a couple invent more categories. One is

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Speaker 1: like the question of like what is the data say about?

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Speaker 1: Is the say good idea for kids? What are the

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Speaker 1: risks and benefits? You sort of dig into the data

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Speaker 1: on sleepaway camp, which is actually super interesting and it's

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Speaker 1: actually quite good. There's some very positive aspects of sleep

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Speaker 1: wey Camp, but they're mostly about belonging. Sleepaway camp is

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Speaker 1: a place that you can be with other kids that

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Speaker 1: are not your peer group that are not your school peer.

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Speaker 1: But then there's also like in this fact finding, this

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Speaker 1: is a wide space and that information, that data can

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Speaker 1: shape a little bit. So if you sort of said, okay,

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Speaker 1: like you know, is there something in particular that my

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Speaker 1: kid really likes, like something you know that they want

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Speaker 1: to so part of their identity, spend some time getting

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Speaker 1: that information. And then the third thing here is a

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Speaker 1: final decision. There's a sense in which with a lot

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Speaker 1: of these big decisions, and Sleepy can maybe less than

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Speaker 1: some others, but like where you just let it dribble

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Speaker 1: and drabble on, like you don't make it, you know,

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Speaker 1: we sort of like talk about it and talk about

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Speaker 1: it and talk about it like here's this other I

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Speaker 1: got this little piece of information, Well maybe that should

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Speaker 1: change our decision or what about this other thing whatever?

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Speaker 1: And so I think the idea here is to say

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Speaker 1: there's one step where you get all the information and

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Speaker 1: another step where you have the information and you're going

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Speaker 1: to make a decision. And it doesn't necessarily have to

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Speaker 1: be a meeting, but I like, I like a good

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Speaker 1: meeting where you kind of like sit and you decide

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Speaker 1: and then you try to like implement and you try

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Speaker 1: to move on. The last f is follow up. This

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Speaker 1: is the piece that you're the travel soccer situation, some

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Speaker 1: nice misses. We often make these decisions. We're just like, okay,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna make it, and then we're like, not gonna

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Speaker 1: have a plan to revisit it. But almost all the

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Speaker 1: decisions you make of this type could have some revisiting,

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Speaker 1: even if it's like what school do I choose or

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Speaker 1: something sort of bigger, you can change your mind. We're

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Speaker 1: always going to have the follow up. Let's also talk

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Speaker 1: about the importance of following through. In your book, you

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Speaker 1: note that if rules aren't enforced sooner than later, that

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Speaker 1: eventually the actions are going to need to occur anyway, Like, okay,

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Speaker 1: you know you use that example of a mother trying

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Speaker 1: to let go and let her kids make breakfast for themselves.

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Speaker 1: Like what other sort of tips in research do you

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Speaker 1: have that can encourage us to stick to following through.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting you say, so. I think a toddlerhood is

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Speaker 1: about where that starts toddler on down. Like consistency is

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Speaker 1: like a huge thing for behavior and for security. Right,

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Speaker 1: So I think that kids kids like to know what

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Speaker 1: the rules are. They do not like the idea that

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Speaker 1: the rule would change in the middle. That doesn't you

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Speaker 1: have have rules for everything. But I think that it

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Speaker 1: is um there is that value in consistency. It's also

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Speaker 1: a lesson in like making sure that the threat that

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Speaker 1: you made is something you can follow through on. So

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Speaker 1: it's like a very salient moment to me was that

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Speaker 1: we were sitting in front of some people on an

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Speaker 1: airplane once and they told their kid, if you keep

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Speaker 1: kicking the seat, like, we're gonna leave you on the airplane,

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Speaker 1: which is like, first of all, is me and but

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Speaker 1: also like that's like another nice thing to say, but

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Speaker 1: also you couldn't do that. I mean, this is just

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Speaker 1: forgotten about because you know, for some reason, when you've

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Speaker 1: made the decision, it just seems I just seem so

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Speaker 1: hard to make a change. There's a huge amount of

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Speaker 1: cognitive dissonance because changing is like a way of saying

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Speaker 1: that I made it wrong. If you send your kid

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Speaker 1: to sleep what camp and they don't like it, and

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Speaker 1: then you don't do it again, you're kind of like saying, like,

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Speaker 1: I made the wrong decision. I think this is why

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Speaker 1: I'd like to have it as part of an initial

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Speaker 1: decision process is to plan the follow up. Like my

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Speaker 1: kids school, I love it so much. Every year we

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Speaker 1: make sure to discuss are we going to enroll them again?

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Speaker 1: Even though it's obvious what the answer is. I want

429
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:23,719
Speaker 1: the like the sort of like symmetry of even if

430
00:20:23,720 --> 00:20:26,360
Speaker 1: that conversations two seconds, even if it's like, let's check

431
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,320
Speaker 1: in on this, okay, like the deposits, do are we

432
00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,640
Speaker 1: doing it again? Yes? We are, okay, Like let's move on.

433
00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 1: So explain this to me. For family planning purposes, you

434
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,359
Speaker 1: use a sauna, but a lot of families use trail.

435
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:40,639
Speaker 1: Oh people like trail o ye, tell me about that?

436
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,120
Speaker 1: And do you use it every day? There are sort

437
00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,119
Speaker 1: of big project based things where we use it all

438
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,000
Speaker 1: the time. So we did, like a house renovation, at

439
00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,640
Speaker 1: some point it was like we were using it every day.

440
00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,119
Speaker 1: We're using it all the time for us, there's like

441
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:56,520
Speaker 1: a huge amount of value and having things written down.

442
00:20:57,160 --> 00:20:59,479
Speaker 1: A sana is like a good way to track like

443
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,600
Speaker 1: for big projects, to sort of like track things, and

444
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,280
Speaker 1: it can remind you and put some of the same

445
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,920
Speaker 1: reasons you use it at work. That is just an

446
00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:09,560
Speaker 1: efficiency game. There's no particular reason that we're not doing

447
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 1: that at home, except that we don't. There's no reason

448
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,080
Speaker 1: why loving each other should mean that we can't have

449
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 1: test management software. And I think when kids get bigger,

450
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:22,199
Speaker 1: like this stuff comes up and you want to be

451
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,040
Speaker 1: able to deal with it in a moment that is

452
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 1: not necessarily the moment that it comes up. People want

453
00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:31,560
Speaker 1: to like deal with things right away, but like that's

454
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,440
Speaker 1: that may not be a time that I'm like equipped

455
00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 1: to deal with something, even if it's not that complicated.

456
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:38,960
Speaker 1: And so I think there's the sort of value of writing.

457
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,240
Speaker 1: I love that I'm going to use this saunt it too.

458
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,639
Speaker 1: Right now we're using Google calendar. Value calendar is like

459
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,679
Speaker 1: that's like a huge thing for me. I mean, I

460
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,199
Speaker 1: have no idea where anyone is unless I look at

461
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,760
Speaker 1: that thing, like who's taking to where? What's happening? You

462
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: have everybody has their own calendar, do you? Yeah? Yeah,

463
00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,760
Speaker 1: everyone has their own calendar and their own color. Yep,

464
00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:09,439
Speaker 1: me too. Now you're running your family like a freaking

465
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:12,199
Speaker 1: board meeting at the dining room table, and you're not

466
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 1: talking about having to do this for every single little thing,

467
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 1: but you're talking about like doing this for the bigger things.

468
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 1: Would travel, soccer, be an example, how would I know

469
00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:24,879
Speaker 1: a decision was big enough to like really give it?

470
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,199
Speaker 1: And the answer is like, if it will impact a

471
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 1: lot of your hours, are you going to experience this

472
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:32,440
Speaker 1: every week in some significant way? So would be things

473
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:36,959
Speaker 1: like school or major extracurriculars, sleepaway camp, day camp, like

474
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,359
Speaker 1: a big picture of things, not kind of day to

475
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: day stuff. People always say what are your values? And

476
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 1: I always look at it like, Okay, well what do

477
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,280
Speaker 1: I spend my time doing? If you're spending your time

478
00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,119
Speaker 1: doing it, then it's a value to you and your family.

479
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 1: That link. People are often not good at making. They

480
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,919
Speaker 1: sort of they think of values is something very abstract

481
00:22:58,320 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 1: and not connected to the thing you're doing. But if

482
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 1: you know, if you're doing something every day, I hope

483
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 1: that it's something that you value because it's every day,

484
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 1: you know, and you're you're like, what should your Tuesday

485
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,479
Speaker 1: look like? That's a really important question because that happens

486
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 1: every week. Every week there's a Tuesday, and if you

487
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,359
Speaker 1: hate every Tuesday, like that's not gonna be that's not good.

488
00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 1: So a lot of parenting weighs heavily on a relationship,

489
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,840
Speaker 1: you know, especially if you guys feel the same are

490
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: different about things. And I think that this approach with

491
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 1: the four fs and running your family with this sort

492
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,479
Speaker 1: of business model, especially when it comes to decision making,

493
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: is really helpful when you're co parenting. Can you explain

494
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: that a little bit? There is this tendency when we

495
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,959
Speaker 1: like our partner to sort of think that like everything

496
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 1: is going to work out because we love each other,

497
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 1: and that you know, sort of we are like we're

498
00:23:44,480 --> 00:23:46,240
Speaker 1: always going to agree, but sort of loving each other

499
00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:48,479
Speaker 1: is not the same as as always agreeing. And I

500
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,240
Speaker 1: think that many of the kinds of conflicts that we have,

501
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 1: we have them in little pieces, but they were reflecting

502
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: some like underlying difference in what we think is important.

503
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:01,360
Speaker 1: Like if I think it's really important to sit down

504
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: for dinner every night and you don't think that's important,

505
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: then you may be willing to go along with it

506
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,639
Speaker 1: some of the time, but you're not going to necessarily help.

507
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:12,440
Speaker 1: And you know, if I think it's important to happen

508
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 1: even if I'm not there, maybe you're not going to

509
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:17,040
Speaker 1: do it because you don't think it's important. You know,

510
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: if we've surfaced essays agreement and we've decided that there's

511
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: like some compromise that we've come to, or or that

512
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:23,760
Speaker 1: it's so important to me that we're both going to

513
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 1: do it, or whatever it is that is. I think

514
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:29,040
Speaker 1: of some value. If it's just that I'm doing it

515
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 1: every day and you're like resentfully kind of not helping

516
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: or something like, that's that's an ongoing conflict. And so

517
00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: I think there's a little bit of a pitch in

518
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: the book almost too, sort of surfacing those conflicts, surfacing

519
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,879
Speaker 1: those differences in in values and priorities or how we

520
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: want our data look or whatever it is, Surfacing those

521
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,399
Speaker 1: at a moment that we're ready to talk about them,

522
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 1: rather than surfacing them just in all of all of

523
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 1: the moments when they're happening, when you know we might

524
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: get might get mad. A lot of this book is

525
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: about like how you're on the same page with your spouse. Yes, yes,

526
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,040
Speaker 1: that is the biggest thing. I very much personally appreciated

527
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,879
Speaker 1: that many things about having kids are like high stressed,

528
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,880
Speaker 1: but like this this kind of time, I think there's

529
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 1: so much hidden conflict because you didn't ever think about this,

530
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 1: Like you probably never talked about what is your priority

531
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: about bedtime? Like are you an early bedtime or like

532
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,040
Speaker 1: before you had kids, before you married somebody, you weren't

533
00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: like time, we're gonna put our kids to bed. If

534
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 1: you disagree about that, you may be fighting about it

535
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,359
Speaker 1: almost all the time. So I think there's like a

536
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:29,679
Speaker 1: pitch here for like bring those you know, sort of

537
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 1: how do you think about managing those conflicts or at

538
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:33,560
Speaker 1: least like bringing them to the four at a time

539
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: you can discuss them. I think this is all so great.

540
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 1: And in your book you go through, you know, things

541
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 1: like what is the right age to get your kids

542
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: a cell phone? Oh my god, you guys, I am

543
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: absolutely terrified. How many extracurricular activities are too much? Should

544
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,240
Speaker 1: my child go to public or private school? You talk

545
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: a lot in your book about, for example, you know,

546
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: a big decision which I'm going to have to make

547
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: a lot of times people have summer birthdays and they're

548
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: a little bit on the cusp, and as a result,

549
00:26:01,480 --> 00:26:03,280
Speaker 1: they don't know whether to have their kid be the

550
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: oldest in their grade or the youngest in their grade,

551
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: and so you know a lot of people have them

552
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:10,440
Speaker 1: hold back for a year. You know, they they start

553
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 1: kindergarten a year later, which possibly makes them bigger, smarter,

554
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 1: or stronger um. What you emphasize is that the biggest

555
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:22,040
Speaker 1: thing is how we measure success. So does the data

556
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:25,159
Speaker 1: find that if you hold or red shirt is the

557
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 1: term you red shirt your kid a year behind starting

558
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: in kindergarten? Does that actually mean that they will test better?

559
00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: Does that mean that they will have more loving, fulfilling relationships?

560
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: In that question, we're kind of running up against some

561
00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:43,880
Speaker 1: of the limits of like what people can measure. I think,

562
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: you know, in the case of returning, the one place

563
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:48,400
Speaker 1: where people you know, where the sort of I think

564
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,880
Speaker 1: would push in the direction of doing it is if

565
00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: you know you think kids are going to struggle the

566
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 1: cist still. So, I think a lot of people think

567
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 1: about this, like about academic readiness, but I think that's

568
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,920
Speaker 1: probably the wrong set of considerations. It is more that

569
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,080
Speaker 1: there's like a lot of like focused demands of kindergarten

570
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: in the modern era that we're not there. Kids are

571
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:09,520
Speaker 1: supposed to learn to read somehow in kindergarten, and learning

572
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,120
Speaker 1: to read involves like sitting still for long periods, and

573
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: when kids are very young and they're compared to their

574
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 1: older peers, there can be like an increased diagnoses of

575
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: learning disabilities, which are basically just because your kid is

576
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: not sitting still, which is age appropriate but is missed.

577
00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: So that's part of that what the hell? When I

578
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: talked about this off my book, it's like, Okay, that's

579
00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 1: a consideration for parents. But I think then stepping back,

580
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 1: it's like, that's like a way to be running things

581
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 1: like we shouldn't and it exacerbates inequality in all kinds

582
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:37,359
Speaker 1: of ways because some people have these choices and some

583
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: people don't. So I think basically a better way to

584
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: say this is like, look, some kids cannot set still

585
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 1: at five, and like, uh, we should not be expecting

586
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,560
Speaker 1: them to do that for nine hours a day. You know,

587
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,679
Speaker 1: I'm terrified because my son, he's in the thirteen percentile

588
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: of height and weight and he's you know, she's a

589
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,440
Speaker 1: little and my brother and husband they were both those

590
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 1: real lay bloomers. Yeah, so what five endings or approaches

591
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: have changed you going through your pandemic parenting? I had

592
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,840
Speaker 1: to realize some loss of control, like all of us,

593
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: and you know, I mean, I think it comes across

594
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: like I'm a person who likes structure. We had to

595
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 1: give up some of the of the structure. I think

596
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 1: The other really big thing for me is like until

597
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,480
Speaker 1: my kids were out of school, which thank god was

598
00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 1: only actually the spring of ties, so they were back

599
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: in school, but sort of over that, you know, several

600
00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 1: months period, I think I had a lot of realization

601
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: about how important in person school is, which in some ways,

602
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:34,680
Speaker 1: like getting influenced a lot of what I did over

603
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 1: the last year in the in the policies, but not

604
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 1: so much about learning. Actually, it wasn't as difficult to

605
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: scaffold the learning for my kids because we have some

606
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: resources and so on. But I hadn't realized how much

607
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: being with other kids and sort of learning to navigate

608
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: the like socio emotional aspects of of being a kid,

609
00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,600
Speaker 1: how important that was um And I think that's something

610
00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:58,480
Speaker 1: we were going to learn. I think there's going to

611
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,160
Speaker 1: be more fallout for how that was as we sort

612
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: of think about policies that going forward. But even for

613
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:06,200
Speaker 1: my kids, the kind of piece of this where sometimes

614
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: with their school I'd be like, why aren't they doing

615
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:10,040
Speaker 1: more worksheets? When they went back to school last fall,

616
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: I was just like, Coop fucking cares. I don't care

617
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,480
Speaker 1: if they do it sure doesn't really matter. Just like

618
00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: have them hang out like they can do worksheets and

619
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: other you know. I mean, I think the way I

620
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 1: put is like I taught my kid to read and

621
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,720
Speaker 1: it was terrible and he could totally have learned to

622
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 1: read later and been happier, and that would have been

623
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 1: like completely fine. I know that you're someone that really

624
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: likes a lot of structure. Me too. The loss of control,

625
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,480
Speaker 1: you know now that we're in this weird space of

626
00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: questioning like are we in a pandemic? Are we not?

627
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 1: Are you right back to gripping control because I am, Yeah,

628
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: I mean it's I find I'm fine. I'm really hard.

629
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,280
Speaker 1: There are sort of many more moments where I'm just like, Okay,

630
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: I just have to accept it, like I know what

631
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 1: I know about this. I just gotta like, I just

632
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:53,640
Speaker 1: gotta wait. I cannot like plan my way out of this.

633
00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: I spend so much time talking to my therapist about

634
00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 1: my desire to plan my way out of and she's like, yeah,

635
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,600
Speaker 1: that's doesn't really sound like something you can play your

636
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 1: way out of. Okay, thanks, I love your therapist. Okay,

637
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: what's your biggest mom fail? I freak out a lot.

638
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: I don't believe it. Oh my god, all the time,

639
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,960
Speaker 1: and like we're like going somewhere and I was pagging.

640
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 1: We're trying to pick somebody up, and there was some

641
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 1: like time pressure of somebody that I couldn't find my phone,

642
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,320
Speaker 1: and I like pagged up the cars. It was probably

643
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,760
Speaker 1: like in the luggage somewhere. And I stood in the

644
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,680
Speaker 1: middle of the like mud room of our house and

645
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,800
Speaker 1: I was just like ah. I was just screaming and

646
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 1: dropping up and my daughter was like my daughter was like,

647
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 1: don't do that. We don't like I love it. Okay,

648
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 1: what advice can you offer our parents? It's gonna be fine?

649
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: Is it? The Emily Austar is it? Is it going

650
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,680
Speaker 1: to be okay? It is? It's gonna be okay, It's

651
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: gonna be okay. Yeah, I mean yeah, it's gonna be okay.

652
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 1: Finish this sentence. Parenthood is joyful. I love it coming

653
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 1: from such a left brain human being. And maybe I'm

654
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: a little more I'm like, I really missed my kid

655
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: right now. I'm like, because she's as sleepaway can It's

656
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: like that's what it's on my mind. I'm picking her

657
00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 1: up on Sunday. I'm picking her up on Sunday. You've

658
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: made it I keep whenever I say that, and I'm like,

659
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: we just have to make it to the sleepaway years.

660
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: I think it's been really good. I mean, not that

661
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 1: she writes to us, but there's like a great Tina

662
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: Fey thing where she's trying to get her teenagers to

663
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,840
Speaker 1: like sit to dinner with her and like how it's

664
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: like dating. And I feel like that's what it is.

665
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: When you're like wait for letters, you know, it's sort

666
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,400
Speaker 1: of like, oh, maybe like a text, like oh do

667
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: they write me? Oh? Do they write me? She never writes,

668
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 1: you know. And then and then like for a while,

669
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,239
Speaker 1: I was worried. They occasionally make them right and they

670
00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: have to call once a week. But like then, like

671
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: I was like very worried something was wrong. And at

672
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: some point we got a lot of it's like I

673
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 1: didn't write because I'm too busy, and I was like, Okay,

674
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: you are such a gift to all of us parents

675
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 1: out here. Congratulations on the family firm. It's amazing, and

676
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: everyone again listening, run don't walk to get all three

677
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,120
Speaker 1: of Emily Austar's books and subscribe to her newsletter so

678
00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: you can be a parent during these especially ethically wild

679
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: fucked up times. Thanks Katie, this is great, This is

680
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: super fun. Thank you Emily, Thank you so much for

681
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: being on. Thank you guys so much for listening. I

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00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed Emily Austar as much as I did.

683
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: Um I want to hear from you. How are you

684
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: guys liking the season? What do you want to learn about?

685
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: What do you want to talk about? You can always

686
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,480
Speaker 1: find me via email at Katie's Crib at Shawnda land

687
00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 1: dot com. Katie's Crib is a production of Shawonda Land

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00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: Audio in partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts

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00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:45,959
Speaker 1: from shawna Land Audio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

690
00:32:46,040 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. You never

691
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,800
Speaker 1: know you know until you try. You con you need

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00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 1: to ride