Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to episode number three of the Hunting Collective,
Speaker 1: Coming you back home in Austin, Texas. I know. Number
Speaker 1: one we were in Mexico with Stephen. Now number two
Speaker 1: we were in Salt Lake City for the Western Hunting
Speaker 1: expot with our boy Ryan Callahan. Uh. Two great episodes
Speaker 1: of great conversations. Number three, we're back home here in Austin, Texas,
Speaker 1: and we're joined by Aubrey Marcus. UM. If you're just
Speaker 1: a hunting fan, if you're a guy that's listening to
Speaker 1: this connected in the hunting industry, you may not know
Speaker 1: who Aubrey Marcus is. You may never heard of his
Speaker 1: company on It, of which he is the CEO, and
Speaker 1: you may have never heard the term total human optimization.
Speaker 1: I don't think any of that matters for this conversation, because,
Speaker 1: as you'll find, Aubrey Marcus is philosopher, he is a
Speaker 1: deep thinker. He's a man who practices psychedelics to better
Speaker 1: his life, not to just get the high. And he's
Speaker 1: one of the more successful people you've ever meet, both spiritually,
Speaker 1: personally and professionally. He just is emanates success. He is
Speaker 1: uh someone that I greatly admire, not only for what
Speaker 1: he does and his visit, how he speaks. UM. You
Speaker 1: can find him, of course on the Aubrey Markets podcasts.
Speaker 1: They tell me there's ten million downloads on that thing
Speaker 1: on iTunes, which is crazy. Um. He just released his
Speaker 1: own book was published by Arburak Collins, Owned The Day,
Speaker 1: Own Your Life, just about optimizing your daily life and
Speaker 1: getting back to being better. And just to say this,
Speaker 1: there wasn't some arrangement here with Aubrey and I where
Speaker 1: I would have him on the podcast just to promote
Speaker 1: the book, as is the general parlance for UM appearances
Speaker 1: and stuff like this. I've hunted with Aubrey a couple
Speaker 1: of different times, UM Bear hunted in Alberta. Most recently,
Speaker 1: as you'll hear in the podcast. We had a great time.
Speaker 1: Were connected. He's just a great dude. So when I
Speaker 1: was thinking about who I'm going to get with to
Speaker 1: continue this awesome conversation about hunting that we've been having,
Speaker 1: I thought, what a different mind, what a person to
Speaker 1: explore this with that Aubrey Marcus is. So that's what
Speaker 1: I did. I shot him a text I said, dude,
Speaker 1: can I come over? Um too? On it which is
Speaker 1: headquarters in Austin, Texas and just hang with you and
Speaker 1: have a conversation about what what you do and what
Speaker 1: you think and open up a little bit of the
Speaker 1: doors of hunting for Aubrey and let you guys in
Speaker 1: on on what he thinks. And so that's what we did.
Speaker 1: That's what we did. I know this is a long
Speaker 1: winded way of saying, welcome to podcast number three, But anyway,
Speaker 1: welcome to podcast number three. Enjoy Aubrey Marcus. What's up man?
Speaker 1: What's up that he's living the dream? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Everybody says that, but no, but you actually might be.
Speaker 1: Maybe I think you might be too. I might be.
Speaker 1: I might be. Listen. I don't want to get into
Speaker 1: aren't we though. If we're not, then then then we
Speaker 1: should be. Well let's figure out. Let's yeah, let's figure
Speaker 1: out if we're not currently living the dream, how we
Speaker 1: can get there before this hour and this hour glass
Speaker 1: is over. I don't want to get into like, hey,
Speaker 1: tell us about yourself. I would I would much prefer
Speaker 1: you tell me about the time we went bear hunting
Speaker 1: and you had experience with a bear, the psychedelic experience
Speaker 1: where a bear spoke to you. Am I right? Remember that, right, Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I've had that experience. Happened multiple times, and
Speaker 1: that wasn't actually during the hunting trip. That happened before
Speaker 1: and uh yeah, right, so you had that experience and
Speaker 1: that we were going bear hunting and there was a
Speaker 1: little bit of a like the interaction you were looking for.
Speaker 1: To tell me, I just wanted people to hear about that.
Speaker 1: I feel like that informs So yeah, one of the
Speaker 1: first times I was doing ayahuasca. Um Aahuasca is a
Speaker 1: South American plant concoction that combines a vine, the actual
Speaker 1: ayahuasca vine, with some d M T containing leaves like
Speaker 1: chakruna or ope yah he or wambisas these very rich
Speaker 1: green leaves from the rainforest, and they pound out the
Speaker 1: vine and they brew it into this tea and it
Speaker 1: becomes very psychoactive, psychedelic, and they used it in a
Speaker 1: lot of their healing practices. Apologies to those of you
Speaker 1: who know what I wask is, but that's a little
Speaker 1: bit of the background. So I've gone down there and
Speaker 1: participated in some of those indigenous ceremonies and you what
Speaker 1: seems to it seems like you have contact with other entities,
Speaker 1: other visions that come and maybe these come from your
Speaker 1: own mind, or maybe these come from somewhere else, doesn't
Speaker 1: really matter, because they're very instructional and educational and very
Speaker 1: profound on your life. And one of the visions with
Speaker 1: a bear, um happened like a rookie. John Dudley, John
Speaker 1: Dudley should the podcast John Dudley, Hey on podcasts on
Speaker 1: podcast with Aubrey Marcus right now where you're interrupting. What's
Speaker 1: up John? Hey? Brother much man? What are you doing
Speaker 1: right now? I'm driving back from Oklahoma from That's what
Speaker 1: we call hunting us. But John Dudley goes out, it's
Speaker 1: a you just so accurate. Yeah, it's no longer hunting.
Speaker 1: It's killing, it's killing everybody. Well, um, we just want
Speaker 1: to say hi, and I'll call you back later and
Speaker 1: uh we'll talk him. We'll talk, all right. Thanks for
Speaker 1: You're welcome, brother, You're welcome, man. Yeah, look forward to
Speaker 1: catching up with you. Are you good? I was gonna
Speaker 1: have a special guest. We had that my first time
Speaker 1: that you. That's lucky. I like that especially it's John Dudley. Dudley. Ah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So anyways, I'm in this visionary state and I get
Speaker 1: this image of a bear, and the bear is like
Speaker 1: weighted down with all these gold chains in a crown,
Speaker 1: and he's like wrestling against it, and he's like trying
Speaker 1: to move, but he's just like he's covered in chains,
Speaker 1: like more than Mr T, like way more than Mr T.
Speaker 1: Just chains weighing him down all over the place, and
Speaker 1: he's trying to move and trying to run, but he
Speaker 1: can't because the gold is so heavy. And I'm watching
Speaker 1: him do this, and he looks at me, the bear
Speaker 1: in my vision, and goes, you know, I remember before
Speaker 1: I had all these gold chains in this crown, when
Speaker 1: I used to be able to run free, just like
Speaker 1: a bear. And then instantly like flashed back to his
Speaker 1: younger self, before he had all this wealth and accumulation
Speaker 1: and status, and I'm the king bear when here's all
Speaker 1: my wealth. And he was just charging through the forest,
Speaker 1: and then I was like became like one of the
Speaker 1: bears and we were like charging through the forest together,
Speaker 1: and it was this really cool like visual representation and
Speaker 1: reminder of you know, a bear really stores all of
Speaker 1: his wealth on himself. It's free to roam and rub
Speaker 1: trees and chase things down and fight and fuck and
Speaker 1: do all the things. It has no attachments to anything,
Speaker 1: and then it just goes to sleep and wears it off.
Speaker 1: Whereas in that image, when the bear started to become
Speaker 1: more like a human and where his wealth externally, then
Speaker 1: it actually slowed him down. It actually prevented him from
Speaker 1: being what he really was at his core, which is
Speaker 1: an animal that liked to roam and like to be free.
Speaker 1: And you know, it's very much an analogy for what
Speaker 1: we humans do to ourselves, tied to our houses and
Speaker 1: cars and possessions and wealth, and always concerned about this
Speaker 1: or that and our status and are we king or
Speaker 1: are we not king? Whatever, all of this nonsense that
Speaker 1: prevents us from actually being the human organism that we are. Yeah, now,
Speaker 1: I found that when you remember you telling me that
Speaker 1: on the drive up to camp, and the goal was
Speaker 1: maybe not to like face down a bear and figure
Speaker 1: all that out, but that was your You had that
Speaker 1: you know, psychedelic relationship with a bear. That that it
Speaker 1: struck me as that I would never encounter someone in
Speaker 1: the hunting you need that would have that that relationship
Speaker 1: or at least mental acuity to be like I have
Speaker 1: this relationship with the bear it's like a delicate It
Speaker 1: came in a different world that I you know, I
Speaker 1: took ayawaskin then I experienced that. So I always thought,
Speaker 1: how different your perspectives are based on who you are
Speaker 1: and what you do and the experiences that you've had
Speaker 1: that very few people that I've met, you know, outside
Speaker 1: of Yeah, I mean I have a deep connection with
Speaker 1: with that animal and the symbolism of that animal. I mean,
Speaker 1: you can track it back to some of the druid
Speaker 1: lore where you know, the druid name for bears art
Speaker 1: and that was you know, Arthur is like the bear king.
Speaker 1: You know, it's like it's a symbol of kind of
Speaker 1: they're the king of the forest in that way, just
Speaker 1: as the lion might be the king of the jungle
Speaker 1: lines and lines aren't even in jungles. That's a weird saying, right,
Speaker 1: that's a movie that we can but you know, so
Speaker 1: there's from that saying to this other I I you know,
Speaker 1: I bought a ranch at the foot of Bear Mountain.
Speaker 1: It's like this animal that just keeps coming up in
Speaker 1: multiple ways. But I hadn't had any visceral experience ants
Speaker 1: with the bear. So I went and you know, prepared
Speaker 1: to hunt one. But I knew that if that bear,
Speaker 1: if the bear was coming, you know, it would show
Speaker 1: itself and I would know that was the one that
Speaker 1: was the one um And you know, I was calling
Speaker 1: out and seeing if that was going to be the
Speaker 1: time where I would have that you know, hunting death
Speaker 1: experience where I'd actually be able to consume the flesh
Speaker 1: of that bear. But that bear didn't appear. I had
Speaker 1: you know, young sALS and um you know, different different
Speaker 1: other bears. Nothing actually came that I could take a
Speaker 1: shot at. But it was still an awesome experience because
Speaker 1: I'm there in the woods and you know, in some
Speaker 1: cases ten feet away from bears, and you get to
Speaker 1: see their curious little personalities and this how natural they
Speaker 1: are um as an animal and got to understand them.
Speaker 1: So while I didn't get to kill and consume one
Speaker 1: in the same way like, that experience was still incredibly
Speaker 1: awesome for me. Well and you still and you get
Speaker 1: to learn a bit of natural history of the animal.
Speaker 1: I don't know about what it ate, where it lived, it,
Speaker 1: did you what it's what it's what it was like,
Speaker 1: only like really observing it and being super quiet and
Speaker 1: being super focused and like being completely in tune with
Speaker 1: your surroundings. I mean, that's the awesome thing about it.
Speaker 1: You're on the ground with bears and there's other gnarly
Speaker 1: bears around there, and you know like you have to
Speaker 1: kind of be you have to kind of be focused. Well,
Speaker 1: that's the thing about bears, especially is it black bears
Speaker 1: where we were in Alberta. Um, those bears are for
Speaker 1: all intense purchases docile like they they give off the
Speaker 1: emote this like docile nature, and when you're you're ten
Speaker 1: feet away from him, you're not. I don't know what
Speaker 1: your experience was, but my experience wasn't too immediately narrow
Speaker 1: back and be defensive. It was to be aware, like
Speaker 1: to be where it was there. But but also at
Speaker 1: the same time, you know, not we go running hide
Speaker 1: and crawling the tree. Um. I found that to be.
Speaker 1: But you also understand you're at the mercy of the
Speaker 1: nature that bear. If that bear decides it wants to
Speaker 1: rip your face off, it has every ability to do it,
Speaker 1: and there's not a lot that point you can do
Speaker 1: about it, so that the unpredictable nature of that animal
Speaker 1: still exists even though you feel like you're in this quiet,
Speaker 1: serene observation mode. You can never switch off that your
Speaker 1: own animal mode. I know, yeah, because when those bears
Speaker 1: start creeping towards you, you know, you don't want to
Speaker 1: show fear right, like you want to just like check
Speaker 1: them a little bit, like hey, you know yeah, and
Speaker 1: then they go like, hey, y oh, no nothing, I
Speaker 1: was just I was just exploring. But that's one thing
Speaker 1: like in in the podcast that that I've tried to
Speaker 1: put out there the first couple that we've done. The
Speaker 1: most feedback I've got is the conversation of value systems
Speaker 1: going into hunting, like how we value the animal. I
Speaker 1: think we all anybody that goes hunting UM. We'll talk
Speaker 1: a little bit more about your history in it and
Speaker 1: then kind of what you want to do in the future,
Speaker 1: But anybody that goes hunting a signs of value to
Speaker 1: the animal with they're hunting UM. And we discussed, like
Speaker 1: in the hunting bubble, what that looks like. Maybe it's
Speaker 1: not always the best value. We may outwardly value the animal,
Speaker 1: but internally we may fetishize its antlers or you know,
Speaker 1: some part of it that isn't That isn't the nature
Speaker 1: of hunting in and of itself. When you in that
Speaker 1: experience that any other hunt you've been on, how do
Speaker 1: you find that you explain the value of that animal
Speaker 1: as you go. I mean it's a good that psychedelic
Speaker 1: experience in the relationship. I think maybe touches on that
Speaker 1: a little bit. But is there a deeper Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I don't think I ever appreciated meat until I
Speaker 1: went hunting, you know, like as conscious quotation marks as
Speaker 1: I try to be, and as spiritually in tune as
Speaker 1: I try to be. You know, I ate cheeseburgers with
Speaker 1: fucking impunity. You know I ate steaks and tenderloins with
Speaker 1: fucking impunity. You know, this was just meat. I hadn't
Speaker 1: been part of the slaughtering process. I hadn't been part
Speaker 1: of the hunting process, and you know, I had obviously
Speaker 1: an understanding like, all right, this food came from an animal.
Speaker 1: I'm not deluding myself. But I didn't really get it
Speaker 1: until you know, I went and hunted my first you know,
Speaker 1: black buck. It was a black buck though, that was
Speaker 1: the first animal that I successfully hunted, and that just
Speaker 1: recalibrated everything. And it was really interesting because you know,
Speaker 1: for me, that act you know, I've been part of
Speaker 1: Native American spirituality, South American spirituality, where hunting is kind
Speaker 1: of part of It's just part of life, and there
Speaker 1: is no distinction between your spiritual life and your hunting
Speaker 1: life and your sex life and all of this. It's
Speaker 1: all just kind of woven together. And so for me,
Speaker 1: you know, I did my best. You know, it was
Speaker 1: hunting with a rifle. At that point, I wasn't um
Speaker 1: adept enough of the bow to try and take one out,
Speaker 1: so you know, before we went out, I said a
Speaker 1: little prayer over the gun and over the bullets so
Speaker 1: that the you know, it would be accurate and swift,
Speaker 1: and you know, then went out and UM, finally, at
Speaker 1: the end of a really long day, found a dough
Speaker 1: and UM took the shot. It was clean, and then
Speaker 1: came and you know, ran over and and it was
Speaker 1: still alive. And I had a small pocket knife that
Speaker 1: my uncle gave me, not pocket knife, like a holstered
Speaker 1: sheath knife, and UM, you know, kind of put my
Speaker 1: hand over it and put the knife through its heart
Speaker 1: to kill it. And at that moment, there was just
Speaker 1: nothing but this feeling of just profound gratitude, like some
Speaker 1: of the most you know, and I said another little
Speaker 1: prayer there of thank you to the animal. But this
Speaker 1: this profound love for that animal, and that's something I
Speaker 1: think that non hunters would never understand. And like, at
Speaker 1: that moment, it's probably the most I've ever loved an
Speaker 1: animal that wasn't like my dog or something like that. Like,
Speaker 1: I've never loved an animal more than that moment as
Speaker 1: I had my hands on its still warm body, and
Speaker 1: it was just this radical expression of gratitude, and that
Speaker 1: was just a total game changing, paradigm shifting moment for me.
Speaker 1: It was like, holy shit, this animal that was once
Speaker 1: alive that I was walking watching track down the things,
Speaker 1: it's now died and it's now going to feed me,
Speaker 1: you know. And right now, even now, it's skin is
Speaker 1: underneath my alter at home, and every day that I
Speaker 1: go into meditate, you know, I like handles on it
Speaker 1: and I see it and you know, the meats long gone,
Speaker 1: but um, but it's still there with me in that moment,
Speaker 1: even more importantly, it's still there. But it wasn't even
Speaker 1: just that moment of that profound love and gratitude for
Speaker 1: the animal. It was the process of skinning it and
Speaker 1: then quartering it and then feeling like, oh, I understand
Speaker 1: why you know why these different parts are softer than
Speaker 1: these muscles. Why the haunters are harder because they're the
Speaker 1: muscles that are more sinuy used for climbing and running.
Speaker 1: And why the tenderloin softer because that muscle is only
Speaker 1: used for quick cuts and it doesn't get used all
Speaker 1: the time. And you know how the backstrap is another
Speaker 1: one of those muscles that like every different part like
Speaker 1: you get it, and then so like when I ordered
Speaker 1: those parts, I'm like, oh, no, I know even if
Speaker 1: it's a cow, like I get it, I get part
Speaker 1: of the animal this is from. And man, it's like,
Speaker 1: I think it should be like a fucking pre prerequisite
Speaker 1: that you should have, like a mere eating license and
Speaker 1: your meat eating license. You have to hunt and and
Speaker 1: fucking butcherself. I said, what if you had to? You
Speaker 1: had if you want to have a steak, you had
Speaker 1: to go down to your local butcher shop or some
Speaker 1: factory farm and take a nailgun and black a cow
Speaker 1: in the head. You had to You had to then
Speaker 1: gut the cow, pull its guts out, butcher it, pack
Speaker 1: it up, ship it out, and then once you're done that,
Speaker 1: They're like, thanks, you past the class, past little test.
Speaker 1: If you get a little laminated car that says you
Speaker 1: can have steak now. And then you go to the
Speaker 1: store and they're like, sir, I'd like to see your license,
Speaker 1: Like you want that ribby, I'd like to see your license,
Speaker 1: And you're like, okay, well here's my cow license. I
Speaker 1: don't have my chicken license yet, but I'm working on it. Yeah. Man,
Speaker 1: that's what hunting is like. It's like getting your deer license.
Speaker 1: It's like understanding now that that that this piece of
Speaker 1: venison is something more than that. And the other thing
Speaker 1: I would you know that strikes me from what you
Speaker 1: were just saying, is that when something dies that you
Speaker 1: love and you appreciate, you feel gratitude. Right, it's one
Speaker 1: of your family members dies, or your dog dies, or
Speaker 1: just anything leaves the earth that you appreciate and love
Speaker 1: and have a relationship with, you feel gratitude and so
Speaker 1: or oh, and you know, there's a lot of emotions
Speaker 1: that go with that. I don't everybody doesn't have the
Speaker 1: same ones. But I think one thing we've never discusses
Speaker 1: as hunters is that those emotions are natural, because that's
Speaker 1: something that has just left the earth and by your
Speaker 1: hand that you you went out into the woods. You
Speaker 1: didn't put that deer there, but you took it away.
Speaker 1: And appreciation is one of the things. You feel gratitude
Speaker 1: when somebody dies that you love. Yeah, and I think
Speaker 1: maybe there's an impulse to kind of hurry through those emotions.
Speaker 1: And it's like, you're not tough for a real hunter
Speaker 1: if you you want to be like those action heroes
Speaker 1: you know that kill somebody and have some witty one
Speaker 1: liner and a blase smile or something, you know, but like,
Speaker 1: I think it's cool to take that moment. You know,
Speaker 1: take your moment, do you like maybe if that is
Speaker 1: you and the first thing your instinct is is for
Speaker 1: the chocolate or whatever, and that's your authentic expression whatever,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to judge that, but like, don't feel
Speaker 1: compelled to play a role. Don't play like the badass
Speaker 1: hunter guy. Like, if you want to take a moment
Speaker 1: and cry at year or two, like, do it, you know,
Speaker 1: and if you're with somebody who wants to do that,
Speaker 1: don't make him feel like you for doing it. You know,
Speaker 1: Like to allow people to have this experience in their
Speaker 1: most authentic way and know that you know, there's no
Speaker 1: one way that makes you better or worse for doing that,
Speaker 1: like have that, you know, have that experience, you feel
Speaker 1: you have different feelings now and you eat a steak
Speaker 1: or you eat chicken or just you know, I can forget,
Speaker 1: you know, like I can certainly like eat a chicken
Speaker 1: tender and dip it in ranch and buffalo and not
Speaker 1: think at all about the chicken, probably because I don't
Speaker 1: have my chicken license. I need to get my chicken.
Speaker 1: But it's true though, even what you said about your
Speaker 1: cow license, like it would probably be better for me
Speaker 1: if I did butcher a cow, you know, because I
Speaker 1: certainly d percent of the time if I go to
Speaker 1: like Lonesome Dove and to get the venis into the
Speaker 1: elk or something like that, that's like I get it.
Speaker 1: I understand what I'm eating, and it's there's like a
Speaker 1: much deeper appreciation. But and cows, I'll try to get there,
Speaker 1: but I sometimes just slip up, and sometimes it's just
Speaker 1: to stay, and sometimes it's just a cheeseburger, and sometimes
Speaker 1: it's just a sausage and um, And so I think
Speaker 1: it would be healthy for me physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually,
Speaker 1: if I hunted more and I just need to make
Speaker 1: the time to do that, like that is a that
Speaker 1: is a personal practice that would assist my you know,
Speaker 1: evolution as a human being. And I would you know,
Speaker 1: dare to say probably all the different animals that I eat,
Speaker 1: you know, from fishing, you know, and actually cleaning the fish.
Speaker 1: That's something I haven't really done. It usually catch the
Speaker 1: fish and bring them somewhere and then they get clean
Speaker 1: and then they get fished. That's not the whole thing.
Speaker 1: That's just pulling and reeling. Like you gotta go through
Speaker 1: the whole process. You cannot rob yourself of that, of
Speaker 1: that experience. There would be a lot of licenses you
Speaker 1: gotta get. I mean, it would be it would take
Speaker 1: you a while. Yeah, I mean I have got that
Speaker 1: with the like spear fishing, you know, spear fishing, I've
Speaker 1: gone and done the whole deal. Like I did that
Speaker 1: in Hawaii. And that's even to me. I I love,
Speaker 1: you know, we have some guys that at work there
Speaker 1: that delivered two mistakes every once in a while. I
Speaker 1: love this town mistake and it's one of the most
Speaker 1: delicious things I've ever eat. But I don't have I
Speaker 1: feel weird. I feel in my home, I'm always eating
Speaker 1: something that I pull out of the freezer around me.
Speaker 1: Look at the Look at the vacuum seal pact. Oh cool,
Speaker 1: access to your Hawaii nine seventeen perfect, Remember really quick.
Speaker 1: I remember that time when I missed eight of them
Speaker 1: and then I shot this one and I was excited,
Speaker 1: and you remember that. So like, I feel like in
Speaker 1: my home, you know, store bought meats unwelcome because it
Speaker 1: feels weird now not you know, not that you know
Speaker 1: I live in some temple or something. I just live
Speaker 1: in the house. But I feel I feel as though
Speaker 1: it's kind of unlike lunch meet is a little bit
Speaker 1: unwelcome in some ways. I talked with my wife about that,
Speaker 1: and she said, well, you need to kill some more
Speaker 1: turkeys this year because I want some white meat. Right.
Speaker 1: So that was a conversation we had last week, is
Speaker 1: how do we achieve this in its hole as opposed
Speaker 1: to you know, just kind of live in half half
Speaker 1: asked at it and which you know, it's would be
Speaker 1: hard to go out to restaurant be like, here's this
Speaker 1: elk I kill that, could you cook it up? And
Speaker 1: then bring it over to me, So you have to
Speaker 1: head your bets. But I feel like my home being
Speaker 1: a place where I live and I cultivated that place.
Speaker 1: I kind of want that to be that dinner table.
Speaker 1: Can you should? You know, and then if you can't,
Speaker 1: you got to at least once or twice, you know,
Speaker 1: if you're gonna, if you're going to, you gotta just
Speaker 1: you gotta do it. You gotta go all the way.
Speaker 1: Like we're ritual is a big thing for me in
Speaker 1: my close inner circle, and we have a bunch of
Speaker 1: very close friends, and you know, we're always trying to
Speaker 1: think of different ways that we can kind of challenge
Speaker 1: each other and see things about each other. And my fiance,
Speaker 1: Whitney is a way better hunter than me, a lot
Speaker 1: more experience and just like she's like a savant. It's
Speaker 1: like she like most things and everything. She's like like
Speaker 1: she's like just feels the heart of the animal and
Speaker 1: just shoots like I've never seen anybody. I've been with
Speaker 1: a lot of really good hunters, I've never seen anybody
Speaker 1: that site and shoot faster. It's like, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: like it's like a military operation, you know, Like like
Speaker 1: like Tim Kennedy like seeing a fucking insurgent like that
Speaker 1: kind of speed. It's just she just as soon as
Speaker 1: the crosshairs hit across, like the gun goes off and
Speaker 1: it's just shocking for everybody around. And she hits them
Speaker 1: through the heart every time. And and anyways, like so
Speaker 1: her and she's gone through the process a bunch and
Speaker 1: she wants to take her girlfriends like through that process.
Speaker 1: Most of them eat meat, but you know they're like hunting, ah,
Speaker 1: you know. And she's like na, like na, bitch, Like
Speaker 1: you gotta you gotta know this. You gotta feel what
Speaker 1: this feels like. This is like, this is part of
Speaker 1: being a human. This is like the this is the
Speaker 1: antie to the game that you're playing. You know, you
Speaker 1: don't have to be fucking world class you know, poker
Speaker 1: player here, but you gotta you gotta antie up. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: when what was the first time you had the urge
Speaker 1: to go hunting? Because I know it wasn't well that
Speaker 1: was as a kid, you know, but I was hunting,
Speaker 1: not and I was hunting. I was just killing them.
Speaker 1: That urged to kill is something that's like deep in us.
Speaker 1: And my parents gave me carte blanche on the rabbits
Speaker 1: and squirrels because they were garden ravaging little beasts, and
Speaker 1: so they were like, yeah, take all them all as
Speaker 1: you want. I had a bow then, and I would
Speaker 1: be just trying all day, roaming around my ten acre property,
Speaker 1: just looking to blast shoot the ears all rabbits, totally
Speaker 1: man as savage, you know, and and those those moments
Speaker 1: of I didn't even I hated actually when I shot it,
Speaker 1: because then I had to go finish them, you know,
Speaker 1: if it wasn't like a clean shot, and like that
Speaker 1: was like this really shocking experience because I had no
Speaker 1: purpose behind it, but the the art and the skill
Speaker 1: of like trying to kill this thing with just a
Speaker 1: string I hadn't I didn't even have sights on my bow,
Speaker 1: so I was shooting instinctive so instinctive compound bow, and
Speaker 1: I'm just kind of roaming around and trying to catch
Speaker 1: these things. I mean, that was something that was really
Speaker 1: drawn to. But then when you actually do it and
Speaker 1: the animals like squealing and you're like like a ten
Speaker 1: year old, eleven year old kid, You're like stop yelling,
Speaker 1: you know, and you just try and find something to
Speaker 1: to finish it off with. You know, that was definitely
Speaker 1: a more traumatic experience than probably I was bargaining for.
Speaker 1: But that impulse to hone those skills is I think
Speaker 1: something that's in in eight and inborn in humans. And
Speaker 1: I just wish i'd had someone who could, you know,
Speaker 1: like me, if I had a kid, you know, I
Speaker 1: wouldn't just say, hey, kids, yeah, I go kill all
Speaker 1: the things in our yard, like let's go do that,
Speaker 1: like I would, you know, try to show them that
Speaker 1: the right way so they could harness that impulse in
Speaker 1: a more productive way. And you took a break from
Speaker 1: hunting for a stretch. Yeah, so I well, I went,
Speaker 1: I went from killing, and then I did I did
Speaker 1: some bird like some bird hunting. That was probably the
Speaker 1: most consistent hunting. I would go see um, a family
Speaker 1: friend out in Maryland and he had a lodge me
Speaker 1: to hunt some ducks and pheasants and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So I did some bird hunting. Um, but it was
Speaker 1: a long time before I went back to, uh, you
Speaker 1: know anything with fur um and fishing was consistent and
Speaker 1: uh but yeah, that was you know, it was only
Speaker 1: five four or five years ago that I had my
Speaker 1: first hunt. And then I went bear hunting with you guys,
Speaker 1: and I haven't been back, and it's not from lack
Speaker 1: of desire, it's just from you know, lack of prioritization.
Speaker 1: I also haven't set foot on a golf course in
Speaker 1: two years too. Both of those things i'd really like
Speaker 1: to remedy going on. Yeah I do, I do, but man,
Speaker 1: I'm like super eager to get back. The only thing
Speaker 1: that scratched the itch, which I'd love is spear fishing.
Speaker 1: Spear fishing is like snorkeling and hunting. Had a baby
Speaker 1: you've never ever done? Oh my god, going to Hawaiian
Speaker 1: like two months and I've got to do it. It's
Speaker 1: the It's like the best of both of those things.
Speaker 1: I'm done. It's it's incredible. I mean, there's there's the
Speaker 1: gun one and the gun one's dope, but you know,
Speaker 1: it takes like a super long time to reload, and
Speaker 1: it's kind of tricky because you got these these cords
Speaker 1: and whatever, and if you really your aim is shitty underwater. Um,
Speaker 1: I like to just a long pole where you just
Speaker 1: pull the rubber band back and let it go, because
Speaker 1: then you can just keep keep keep blasting. Yeah. I've
Speaker 1: got a lot of friends that do it. A lot
Speaker 1: of guys in Hawaii. I know they're surfers that just
Speaker 1: live all that stuff, the stories in the way that
Speaker 1: they find fish and laying on the bottom looking like
Speaker 1: coral and and you know, having fish swim right up
Speaker 1: to you to pop up. I mean, that's that's hunting.
Speaker 1: It's incredible and you've got to have really great control
Speaker 1: of your breath. Yeah, you know, I'm so excited. Look
Speaker 1: at this assholes trying to kill He's like gaff choking
Speaker 1: and hearts pounding and like a hundred beats from I'm
Speaker 1: not like a great Now I'm doing what We're going
Speaker 1: to Lanai in a couple of months here, and uh,
Speaker 1: I'm hoping to get it loose there and just learn.
Speaker 1: There's something I saw in Instagram, which if I was
Speaker 1: if I had a trip plant, I would look into.
Speaker 1: It's called the c archer sling, and it's basically like
Speaker 1: a bow version of a spear gun. So you like
Speaker 1: pull it back and you shoot it like a bow
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna take you back to when you were
Speaker 1: a kid chase it. So now there's a purpose because
Speaker 1: every time I've gone spear fishing, I've eaten that animal
Speaker 1: within you know, the next three hours what a better
Speaker 1: And that's I think that's the difference. I was talking
Speaker 1: to something about meat and and you know, like hunting
Speaker 1: an unglid or an animal and then fishing fishing. The
Speaker 1: concept is eat it as soon as possible. Yeah, get
Speaker 1: it out of that get it out of that fish,
Speaker 1: filet it, chop it up, eat it raw, cook it whatever.
Speaker 1: But the sooner or the better. And with meat, if
Speaker 1: you're doing it right, the idea is let that thing age,
Speaker 1: let it hang, you know, weeks if you can, let
Speaker 1: some mold girl on the outside of it, chop that
Speaker 1: off and eat it um. And I always found that
Speaker 1: to be just a whole different world, especially spear fishing.
Speaker 1: You shoot a thing and you want to get it
Speaker 1: on the boat, take it back and eat it roll.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's that's the That's what kind of different
Speaker 1: connection is that. I mean, that's yeah, literally eating anything wrong,
Speaker 1: which I hope nobody out there is doing that with deer,
Speaker 1: but you could, good little dear, little dear tartar, little
Speaker 1: deer tartar, make it a little bit. But the reef
Speaker 1: fish that you actually get access to too, a lot
Speaker 1: of them don't take hooks, so you get some really
Speaker 1: interesting flavors like parrot. Fish are like tastes like lobster.
Speaker 1: It's like amazing, and you can they don't you know,
Speaker 1: they like suck the coral off rocks. So and you
Speaker 1: have to be careful. There's some like reef born fish
Speaker 1: illnesses you can get, but in general, Um, I've had
Speaker 1: no issues. And it's just been an epic experience. Well
Speaker 1: for me hunting, you know, I grew up hunting, but
Speaker 1: then later on just kind of getting a closer you know,
Speaker 1: relationship with Honey. It drove me to do things like
Speaker 1: garden and get chickens. And one half is you know,
Speaker 1: innate desire to go spear fishing because of the way
Speaker 1: I feel like it's parallel to hunting. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel like Honey has led me down a path
Speaker 1: of sustainability just in seeing like we're talking about going
Speaker 1: home and having that option in your house to open
Speaker 1: the fridge and pull out something that means something to you. Um,
Speaker 1: you want to replicate that, So I guess, Um, now
Speaker 1: we've covered your your history with hunting. I would ask
Speaker 1: you you've done a lot of stuff. I mean, you've
Speaker 1: you've had You've traveled to countless South South American villages
Speaker 1: and had countless experiences with tribal leaders, and you've written
Speaker 1: a book. I'm looking at it right now on the
Speaker 1: day in your life. I mean, you've kind of become
Speaker 1: this and I've enjoyed Washington since I've known you, just
Speaker 1: this voice for reason, but also just clarity and vision
Speaker 1: and just to me, the pragmatism in which you approach
Speaker 1: giving people advice is is is What's It's not shocking,
Speaker 1: but in a way it is. I Mean most people
Speaker 1: I find that give advice give it, you know, with
Speaker 1: some slant of personal, um, you know, the personal They
Speaker 1: want to get something from you. But I've found that
Speaker 1: just reading your stuff and falling along that it's it's
Speaker 1: not that for you. It's it's just wanting to better
Speaker 1: people's lives and and explaining your own mind so you
Speaker 1: can help other people's expand that. So you know, you've hunted,
Speaker 1: you've had this experience, and you've gone and done anything.
Speaker 1: What are the things that you experienced in your life
Speaker 1: that would maybe put a different shine on hunting? As
Speaker 1: you know it like that your motivation to go do it,
Speaker 1: what you get from it, you know, how has it
Speaker 1: been rounded out in a way I think to understand
Speaker 1: what and what is an animal? Like what are we
Speaker 1: and what are animals? And how what are the differences,
Speaker 1: you know, like and not to romanticize. I think, like
Speaker 1: you get caught in two camps. One is like this
Speaker 1: romantization of like, oh life is life so precious you
Speaker 1: can't touch it and whatever? You know, Like that's not
Speaker 1: the game, you know, that's not that's not in the
Speaker 1: natural order. That doesn't abide by truth. But what also
Speaker 1: doesn't abide by truth is just killing for no reason.
Speaker 1: Killing is a big deal whatever, you know. So it's
Speaker 1: finding that middle ground between like who we are and
Speaker 1: what these animals are and really understanding that we're all
Speaker 1: part of. In my understanding, you know, it's a lot
Speaker 1: of the spiritual practices that I've done. We're all part
Speaker 1: of the same substrate, you know, and you can call
Speaker 1: that substrate the universe, you can call that substrate energy,
Speaker 1: you can call that substrate God. You know, we're all
Speaker 1: part of this God experience unfolding, this life experience unfolding,
Speaker 1: this universe experience unfolding. And there's many different ways that
Speaker 1: it manifests that manifits and concrete things and kind of
Speaker 1: rock energy, which is still atomic structures that are moving constantly.
Speaker 1: We think of rocks as an animate they're moving, they're
Speaker 1: just not alive. And then there's the life things. But
Speaker 1: then there's things like insects, which are basically like moving rocks.
Speaker 1: They don't really have free will. Like you take a
Speaker 1: digger wasp and you can get it to do the
Speaker 1: same thing over and over again by tricking its environment,
Speaker 1: right that it's not like a conscious creature. They're like
Speaker 1: little robots. They're live, but they're like mostly like little
Speaker 1: robots that will continue to do the same thing. And
Speaker 1: how perfect because they're like the garbage disposals of the earth,
Speaker 1: Like they need to run like robots. They can't just
Speaker 1: decide like not sucking. I'm not into garbage today, you know,
Speaker 1: like if the flies decided they didn't, yeh, nope, I'm
Speaker 1: going to flowers. The bees are killing. It is the
Speaker 1: most serious. You can't have that if you're a bug,
Speaker 1: you know, So that all right, understanding that these are
Speaker 1: creatures with like less free will somewhere between a rock
Speaker 1: and a human, you know, like the structures there, the
Speaker 1: movements there but that kind of and then and then
Speaker 1: just kind of figuring it out, figuring out what these
Speaker 1: you know, the sentience, the will, the personality of these
Speaker 1: beings and what that really means, you know, and who
Speaker 1: they are like who they are, what they are, and
Speaker 1: then having respect for that and knowing knowing going kind
Speaker 1: of consciously into what you're doing, and knowing too. There's
Speaker 1: you know, there's this countless abundance of new new like
Speaker 1: all life is precious, but each individual life really isn't
Speaker 1: that precious because there's all kinds of other forms that
Speaker 1: comes through. So it's like this weird paradox whereas like, yes,
Speaker 1: is that dear absolutely precious, absolutely, but it's precious as
Speaker 1: dear collectively. That one deer, you know, is precious, but
Speaker 1: can be sacrificed to feed other things, and those are
Speaker 1: part of the part of the life. And aren't those
Speaker 1: the human spectrums? We have one side the animal rights
Speaker 1: person who says that one dear is precious, that one
Speaker 1: dear's life. I love that dear, that deer over there,
Speaker 1: I love it. And then you've got a whole another
Speaker 1: group of people that I tend to hang out with.
Speaker 1: Let's say I love the idea of deer. They are
Speaker 1: they play a part in this big old tapestry that
Speaker 1: is nature, and I play a part with them. I
Speaker 1: kill them to save them. And there's so much oxygen,
Speaker 1: you know, there's so many oxymorons build into those ideas
Speaker 1: that I think I often wonder. I've been thinking this
Speaker 1: a lot more lately. Is it impossible or is it
Speaker 1: semi impossible to explain what hunting is to someone who's
Speaker 1: never done it too accurately depict the complexity both of nature,
Speaker 1: the natural world, our involvement in it, and then also
Speaker 1: what the hunter, the historically the hunter has done for
Speaker 1: that wildlife because bias just jumps in the way, like
Speaker 1: bias jumps up. Well, first of all, it's really hard
Speaker 1: to it is really hard to explain that. I mean,
Speaker 1: go ahead and start with explaining the feeling of what
Speaker 1: sabi and orgasm first, and try to explain that to
Speaker 1: someone who's never second orgasms. You know, like you can't
Speaker 1: explain some things that you haven't really experienced. But especially
Speaker 1: with hunting, just bias becomes a monster. You know, your
Speaker 1: idea of what it is is, and people, oh, I
Speaker 1: could never do that bullshit, You could never do that
Speaker 1: if you're hungry enough, if you're a kid, you know
Speaker 1: your you know your mama bear and your kids looking
Speaker 1: at you starving, and you have an opportunity to hunt
Speaker 1: and feed it. I for damn sure, you know you
Speaker 1: will be the first one out there, you know, whittling
Speaker 1: a spear and trying to make that should happen. It's
Speaker 1: just it's part of our nature. But with the abundance
Speaker 1: that we have, we have the luxury of these choices.
Speaker 1: But let's not get confused. You know, it's just the
Speaker 1: luxury of choices that are even giving you that option,
Speaker 1: you know. So it's it's a funny. It's a funny
Speaker 1: world that we're just all together so fucking disconnected from everything,
Speaker 1: from absolutely every aspect of what it is to be
Speaker 1: this human primate, you know, from the camaraderie, from the sexuality,
Speaker 1: from the social bonds, from the tribal bonds, from the
Speaker 1: practices like the hunting and the gathering and cultivating from
Speaker 1: your own garden. I mean, that's something too that I
Speaker 1: think everybody should experience. Eat a vegetable that you watered
Speaker 1: from a seed and pulled from the ground and washed
Speaker 1: the dirt off of like, that's cool too. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: I always think like, what if somebody just erased your
Speaker 1: mind and somebody said, here, okay, even with vegetable, because
Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to do with me. You could
Speaker 1: either grow it in the ground, playing it in the ground.
Speaker 1: I'll give you the seed. I can provide the seed
Speaker 1: to you, granted, and then water it, put it in
Speaker 1: environment where it can thrive, grows out of the ground,
Speaker 1: and then at a time where it's most rich and
Speaker 1: ready to eat, you pluck it. You cut it up
Speaker 1: and eat it. Like that seems pretty good, And she's like,
Speaker 1: I would appreciate that thing more because I had to
Speaker 1: work and I had to watch it and I had
Speaker 1: to understand how it thrived and how it allowed me
Speaker 1: to thrive. That seems pretty cool. Or what I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do is I'm gonna build a maze, and in that
Speaker 1: maze is gonna be lighting, and you go through a door.
Speaker 1: The door will open automatically. You don't even have to
Speaker 1: pull the door. You go through this and then there's
Speaker 1: a maze of vegetables, but they're just in boxes and
Speaker 1: they're all like the best kinds of vegetables, and there's
Speaker 1: lighting on them and stuff and there's music playing. Then
Speaker 1: you get a little a cart that's one wheels and
Speaker 1: you push that around. You just pull shit out of
Speaker 1: boxes and you put it into your thing. You take
Speaker 1: it up, then you pay for it, you go home
Speaker 1: and eat it. Like which one of those is better?
Speaker 1: Like one of them's whole foods, one of them in
Speaker 1: your backyard. Yeah, if you just erase everything, I would
Speaker 1: probably just say, look, man, like the other one seems fake,
Speaker 1: this one seems real inherently, I'm just gonna pick the
Speaker 1: real one. Well, you you also, it's also just like
Speaker 1: knowing the vegetable, like like you don't really know the
Speaker 1: vegetable when it's already pre prepared, like and most people
Speaker 1: don't even buy the vegetables that they have to cut.
Speaker 1: You know, you go into whole Foods, you're getting you're
Speaker 1: getting some white person to cut yours for you. That
Speaker 1: a Whole Foods, there's like I don't have enough time
Speaker 1: to cut. There's like Jackson in the back and you know,
Speaker 1: Sarah cutting your cutting your vegetables for you, and and
Speaker 1: they're like preparing it and you're paying exorbitant prices and
Speaker 1: it just comes in this food form whereas you you
Speaker 1: pull a zucchini from the ground, you see where the
Speaker 1: stem is connected to that little nub on the end
Speaker 1: that you cut off, and how that's feeding at nutrients,
Speaker 1: and how it's growing in the soil, and how it's creating,
Speaker 1: you know, something that you're going to consume and it's
Speaker 1: going to nourish your body. That's a different thing. You get,
Speaker 1: Like I get like fired up when I'm cooking anything
Speaker 1: that's from our garden, whether it's we have eggplants and
Speaker 1: herbs or even man even if I'm making like a
Speaker 1: cocktail and I'll go out and grab some mint and
Speaker 1: muddle it up from our garden and like just drinking that,
Speaker 1: you know, drinking that lime in tequila and mint or
Speaker 1: whatever I decided to make, and like I'll have like
Speaker 1: a little smile on my face, Like herbs from my garden.
Speaker 1: You know, that's actually probably the like that, that's probably
Speaker 1: the time when I'm like the most like annoyingly proud.
Speaker 1: It's like I always tell somebody's from our garden. You know.
Speaker 1: I don't brag about anything, you know, I don't brag
Speaker 1: about ship, but my wife, like last even last night,
Speaker 1: two nights ago, I cooked an axis backstrap and it
Speaker 1: was like the most delicious, this best thing I've ever cooked.
Speaker 1: If I could bottle up whatever the hell I did.
Speaker 1: And then last night I was got home late. My
Speaker 1: wife had cooked uh, the other part of the backstrap
Speaker 1: in the oven as opposed to our trigger, and I
Speaker 1: was offended. I was like, emotion I'm like, come on,
Speaker 1: just turn the trigger on, you know what. That's going
Speaker 1: to be good that way. It's not as good this way.
Speaker 1: She looked at Me's like, calm down, don't get so emotional.
Speaker 1: I'm like, hey, how to go to Hawaii for that?
Speaker 1: Aren't not allowed to get emotional about that? I can't
Speaker 1: just go back and get another one tomorrow. And so
Speaker 1: I find that, you know, maybe I'm a little bit
Speaker 1: of a dick when it comes when it comes to
Speaker 1: my wild meat that I went and got, because that
Speaker 1: there isn't it doesn't. I can't go out and and
Speaker 1: get it presented to me in a nice lighted box
Speaker 1: like it would be a whole Yeah, And it's it's
Speaker 1: just that it's this a different thing. It's also it's
Speaker 1: a showcase of your skill. It's a showcase of um,
Speaker 1: there's something very primal about it that I think is
Speaker 1: and I think it's important, But I think that one
Speaker 1: of the biggest problems why everybody is so depressed and
Speaker 1: anxious and funked up in general, if you look at,
Speaker 1: you know, the demographics of different people and the epidemics
Speaker 1: of all of these different issues. We forgot how to
Speaker 1: be humans, you know, we forgot how to sit around
Speaker 1: next to each other and help prepare meals and laugh
Speaker 1: and go hunting together and have these experiences that as
Speaker 1: a human organism we're designed to have. And that's you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of what I've tried to put in my
Speaker 1: book is like how do we get back to the
Speaker 1: blueprint of what we were supposed to do, because in
Speaker 1: that blueprint we're going to thrive. And there's a lot
Speaker 1: of practices that we can do that can mimic some
Speaker 1: of these environments. Like part of the thing about a
Speaker 1: hunt that's gonna be good is you're gonna get cold
Speaker 1: at certain points, you know, maybe you're gonna get hot
Speaker 1: at certain points. Maybe you're gonna have periods of fast
Speaker 1: exertion and high high stress followed by super calm periods.
Speaker 1: We have absolutely nothing to do but wait. And that's
Speaker 1: what we're designed for. We're not designed for constant stress
Speaker 1: all the time, a little bit of this, a little
Speaker 1: bit of that, no rest, no break, we're designed for these.
Speaker 1: So when we're not hunting, like, how do we mimic
Speaker 1: that in in regular life? Like, how do we mimic
Speaker 1: the experience of a hunt, you know, by going through
Speaker 1: our day that way? Well, maybe it's a cold shower,
Speaker 1: an ice bath, and maybe it's you know, a quick sprint,
Speaker 1: and then some you know, steady state cardio or walking,
Speaker 1: and like, how do we mimic these experiences that can
Speaker 1: get us at least a little bit closer. But even
Speaker 1: better than mimicking them is actually, hey, why don't we
Speaker 1: just do them? Yeah? I have a real problem with depression.
Speaker 1: After I come back from a long time outside. Sure,
Speaker 1: I come back from some trips I've had this year,
Speaker 1: will be ten days, fourteen days. You come back, and
Speaker 1: my wife's like, I'm just gonna give you a couple
Speaker 1: of days to switch it back, switching to switch that
Speaker 1: dial back to regular, fella, get it back to like
Speaker 1: stop being this, to looking around like looking for the
Speaker 1: next you know, really looking for the next mental queue
Speaker 1: to go do something, exert myself. I'm just like rodding along,
Speaker 1: going when's the next hunt? And the thing is, without
Speaker 1: the hunting experience, you would be just internalizing, bottling, compounding,
Speaker 1: not even really understanding, like, man, why am I so bombed?
Speaker 1: Why don't I have any energy? Why am I why
Speaker 1: can't I get going? And because you just you don't
Speaker 1: even know, you haven't even seen the other side, you know,
Speaker 1: so you have nothing to compare it to. That's why
Speaker 1: I think even podcasting is some kind of weird catharsis,
Speaker 1: because you're just me and you sit down talking. Like
Speaker 1: that door in your office here stays closed. Somebody walks in,
Speaker 1: we'd be like, get out. If he calls back, Um,
Speaker 1: he's got a special ring tone. But that kind of
Speaker 1: thing to me, like this, it's it's rare. It's become
Speaker 1: a rarity, which is sad. But in the same uh
Speaker 1: and the same way. I was talking to somebody at
Speaker 1: work the other day about the idea of vacation is
Speaker 1: strange to me in some way after being a hunter,
Speaker 1: like I would live my life in this Essentially, what
Speaker 1: we're admitting to is not a perfect existence. The need
Speaker 1: for vacation, you know, says to the says to the human, Hey,
Speaker 1: the thing you're doing that's not a vacation, that's not
Speaker 1: the optimal way that you live your life. So there's
Speaker 1: this other thing out there that you go pursue that
Speaker 1: shows you how great it could be. Well, you go
Speaker 1: do that thing, and then you go back to your
Speaker 1: shitty life and you're like, well that now it sucks here,
Speaker 1: Like why would you leave your current and show what's better?
Speaker 1: Why not do the opposite? Why not go to a
Speaker 1: place that's hard her so you appreciate where you are
Speaker 1: every day. That makes sense, makes sense to me. And also,
Speaker 1: like the way that we handle vacation now is the
Speaker 1: only way to relieve stress. It's not the actual relieving
Speaker 1: stress by doing something challenging and actually going out, like
Speaker 1: you're saying, it's just pound drinks, you know, you just
Speaker 1: go vacation mode my brain liquid, Yeah, and just fucking
Speaker 1: crush as many you know, get out of the pool
Speaker 1: ship food, pull the lever on this machine and money
Speaker 1: and it maybe a win something and then all right,
Speaker 1: yeah maybe it maybe it bludgeons your consciousness enough that
Speaker 1: you relieve enough stress for a moment, but then you
Speaker 1: come back with the compounded damage that you've done in
Speaker 1: the momentum and the exhaustion and you know, the frustration,
Speaker 1: and then you're just waiting for that next moment you
Speaker 1: can bludge in yourself over the head with more booze
Speaker 1: and to get out of this. Like, that's not that,
Speaker 1: that's not the thing, man. You don't want to be
Speaker 1: that dude at the end of your life and be like, man,
Speaker 1: I wonder what it would have been like to go
Speaker 1: on a trek across New Zealand on foot like I
Speaker 1: did a recent psychedelic experience. I haven't actually talked about
Speaker 1: this on any podcast, but I popped out of it
Speaker 1: and I had this incredibly crystal clear vision of me
Speaker 1: walking on foot through the Australian outback and I was like, damn,
Speaker 1: like and I like knew I had to go. I
Speaker 1: could see this trace back from my youth and my
Speaker 1: fascination with Australia and the digre Do and you know,
Speaker 1: Aboriginal culture and all of these different signs like oh fuck,
Speaker 1: it's like I gotta go to fucking Australia. I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, man, all right. So then there's that, and
Speaker 1: then there's so at some point, now I know that
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be taking like and I think I found
Speaker 1: the trailing. I'm gonna do the Larrapinta Trail, which is
Speaker 1: like a twenty one mile hike through the through the
Speaker 1: outback and see what's possible there. Maybe there's hunting available,
Speaker 1: maybe it's just camping and playing music or whatever. But
Speaker 1: that experience, now, I'm like stoked for it, like I'm
Speaker 1: looking for I get to do all kinds of awesome
Speaker 1: ship I mean, great parties, superstar superstar athletes, you know,
Speaker 1: beautiful girls, all those things. Like that's when we're most
Speaker 1: When I'm most excited about. What I'm most excited about
Speaker 1: is you know, it's gonna sound crazy, but I'm most
Speaker 1: excited about that fucking that track where you just get
Speaker 1: to like turn my phone off and just cruise through
Speaker 1: a hot ass hot as middle of nowhere place and
Speaker 1: just it just calls to me. You know. I think
Speaker 1: that's part of the balance of life. It's not all
Speaker 1: just like more and more. Yeah, if I had more money,
Speaker 1: if I had more dope parties, if I had more
Speaker 1: of this, Like that's no, that's not it. That's just
Speaker 1: a place for that. Like I love that stuff, but
Speaker 1: you can't just have that and then just have crushing
Speaker 1: it at work, and then just have crushing it with
Speaker 1: in this area, like everything needs to be in balance
Speaker 1: and re human ng, like getting your fucking feet on
Speaker 1: the earth and sleeping out into the stars. Man. I
Speaker 1: went to Nepal be close to a year ago to
Speaker 1: hunt blue sheet, and I you know, I described it
Speaker 1: as a hunt, right, I say, I went hunting. I
Speaker 1: didn't really go hunting like I thought I was going hunting.
Speaker 1: I went there to hunt a sheep. But about a
Speaker 1: third of the way through I could give two focks
Speaker 1: about any sheep. I mean, I still knew I wanted
Speaker 1: to kill a sheep, because that's the full breath of
Speaker 1: the experience of what I was there to do. But
Speaker 1: once I we land in this little village in the
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere and Duel in this little town called Dual.
Speaker 1: They are, so it was like six days walk from
Speaker 1: the nearest road, and we get into a room, you know,
Speaker 1: half the size of your office here, and we're talking
Speaker 1: to these people and they're translating their stories and we're
Speaker 1: drinking their roxy moonshine out of a cup. There's a
Speaker 1: goat standing in the corner of this stone hut and
Speaker 1: there's a one year old baby lane on the ground
Speaker 1: and you're looking around, thinking these people have nothing. And
Speaker 1: the next morning you wake up and they're singing and
Speaker 1: there's flute playing and there's yelling, like boisterous yelling, and
Speaker 1: people are just this is like just beautiful sounds coming
Speaker 1: from everywhere, and the sun's coming up with the mountain.
Speaker 1: You're like, come on, man, did I not come here
Speaker 1: for this? Like what I come here for that sheep
Speaker 1: that's that's up the mountain there, or this thing which
Speaker 1: is perspective on what we what it could be, or
Speaker 1: what it is for other people. And that's that's what
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people miss specifically in the
Speaker 1: world that this this podcast will speak to, just the
Speaker 1: perspective of what's there on the ground that you miss
Speaker 1: while you're thinking about that four elk or you know,
Speaker 1: in your case, like what when's the right bear? I
Speaker 1: think you're the way you came at that bear home
Speaker 1: was perfect because you've experienced everything up until the moment
Speaker 1: when it would happen or not. But I think that's
Speaker 1: my own I look back my own hunting life and
Speaker 1: my own life spent outside and I say like, dude,
Speaker 1: I missed so much in the last twenty years, so much,
Speaker 1: but I'm glad I did because now I know, like you,
Speaker 1: now I know what I missed. Yeah, man, this is
Speaker 1: like we have the best opportunity to explore this world
Speaker 1: and have a variety of different experiences, and the more
Speaker 1: we get caught up in our own desire to validate ourselves.
Speaker 1: And maybe that's and you can even validate yourself through hunting,
Speaker 1: of course, you know, like and that is the trophy element,
Speaker 1: Like I did this. Look at me, Aren't I great?
Speaker 1: You know, like that's fine, but that's not you're missing
Speaker 1: the point. The point is the point is the thing.
Speaker 1: It's the experience itself, you know, Like you should find
Speaker 1: the joy even if you never told a soul, you know,
Speaker 1: and if you could just do this and smile, you know,
Speaker 1: and give that, you know, give those antlers to an
Speaker 1: indigenous people and walk back, like that should be the test,
Speaker 1: Like could you do that and still love it? Like
Speaker 1: could you go kill give away all the meat, all
Speaker 1: the skins, all the antlers, everything, and never tell anybody
Speaker 1: and just do that and hold that is like this
Speaker 1: smile you could carry in your heart and like would
Speaker 1: that still be worth it? And then if so, then
Speaker 1: you know you're probably hunting for the right reason. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was listening to this guy on Rogans podcast, um
Speaker 1: Johan Ari. You're not that guy, Um an expert in depression,
Speaker 1: which seems like a weird thing to say, but he
Speaker 1: was talking about intrinsic and extrinsic motivation. Like intrinsic obviously
Speaker 1: meaning you're doing it because you love it you personally,
Speaker 1: you gained something personally from it. An extrinsic meaning you're
Speaker 1: going out and doing it based on a reward you
Speaker 1: know some of then external reward that someone else will
Speaker 1: give you based on that thing. And he was talking
Speaker 1: about it in a different field and a completely different
Speaker 1: subject of what I was thinking, But I immediately turned
Speaker 1: into like, that's it, Like that's what my problem has been,
Speaker 1: Like I've let too much of the extrinsic in and
Speaker 1: not done enough of the intrinsic, not only just in
Speaker 1: going outside and and hunting, but just in all of life.
Speaker 1: You let too much of that in, and we do
Speaker 1: it in so many slippery different ways, like we're just
Speaker 1: the ego is just the starving validation machine, and it's
Speaker 1: constantly looking to validate itself, whether it's a glance in
Speaker 1: the mirror, you know, looking at your bank balance or
Speaker 1: what you've accomplished, or what your job is, or you know,
Speaker 1: how big the dick is between your legs, or like
Speaker 1: what animals you've killed, or we're just constantly hungrily looking
Speaker 1: for validation. But I think depression a lot of it
Speaker 1: comes from the exasperation and realizing that you're never going
Speaker 1: to get validation from anything external. You're feeding a hungry
Speaker 1: ghost like you're valid because you're human. You're valid because
Speaker 1: you're part of this planet. You're valid because you are.
Speaker 1: You know, you're not valid because you do. You're valid
Speaker 1: because you be. And when we realize that, then we
Speaker 1: can stop this rabid hunt to try and prove to
Speaker 1: ourselves and others that were I am something like, oh
Speaker 1: yeah you are. You're fucking awesome. But it's not because
Speaker 1: of anything you do. It's just because you are, you know,
Speaker 1: And that's the that's the big thing we have to
Speaker 1: and then then and then you're free, and then you
Speaker 1: actually do more awesome stuff and people are like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, you're so awesome. You're like okay, you know,
Speaker 1: Like but when you're constantly hunting. We've all been around
Speaker 1: those people that are just thirsty, just thirsty for that validation,
Speaker 1: Like no, I'm gonna give you that. I'm actually gonna
Speaker 1: do the other way. I'm just a little bit stuff
Speaker 1: going on. Yeah, exactly, I got to get my chicken license.
Speaker 1: A chicken license, damn it. That's going to be the
Speaker 1: title of this podcast. I'll Remarcus in the chicken license.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to have to do a video companion.
Speaker 1: What from the book? Like, what from the book? I
Speaker 1: want to read the thing, but what what from the
Speaker 1: book do you think? Um, you know best sheds light
Speaker 1: on this conversation, Like, Yeah, I think it's the I
Speaker 1: think it's a lot of the discussions about the managing
Speaker 1: stress appropriately and um, you know, I think that's a
Speaker 1: that's a real big one because you think of the
Speaker 1: life cycle of like how we're supposed to live, and
Speaker 1: it's short bursts of acute stress and acute stressors hormatic stress,
Speaker 1: and then long bouts of you know, relaxation and decompression,
Speaker 1: and that's what you experience in any hunt, you know,
Speaker 1: and so finding the ways to do that through you know,
Speaker 1: caught hot and cold therapy through which actually when you
Speaker 1: do those acute acute stresses, that does an amazing job
Speaker 1: of reducing the chronic stress. And that chronic stress is
Speaker 1: like a fire that's just burning us alive. So going
Speaker 1: through the breath practices like the whim Hoff breath practices,
Speaker 1: the cold exposures, the heat exposure, the types of training,
Speaker 1: the different practices that you can put around that so
Speaker 1: that it just gets your body back in line. I
Speaker 1: think that's an important topic. And then also mapping the
Speaker 1: circadian rhythm throughout the day, you know, because when you're
Speaker 1: out hunting outside and you're on a hunt, you know,
Speaker 1: you're waking up with the light, You're going to sleep
Speaker 1: with the darkness. You don't have climate control, you know,
Speaker 1: you don't have any of these other things. And guess what,
Speaker 1: you're not tired. You know, for the most part my experiences,
Speaker 1: it's it's like it's get up at four in the morning,
Speaker 1: you're hunting, and the end of the day eight o'clock
Speaker 1: and you're like, I could do two more hours. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because you're in a court, you're in rhythm, like you're
Speaker 1: in congruence with the circadian rhythms of the body of
Speaker 1: the earth. You become one with the environment again and
Speaker 1: finding way is even in our concrete jungle, to stay
Speaker 1: in accord with that. So when you wake up, you know,
Speaker 1: making sure that you're getting exposure to light and you're
Speaker 1: rehydrating and you're getting some movement, and then what you're
Speaker 1: doing to create darker conditions and mimic a natural environment
Speaker 1: before you go to bed, and then knowing which times
Speaker 1: are the right times to nap and rest during throughout
Speaker 1: the day. You know generally would be in like the
Speaker 1: heat of the day, that's when the circadian rhythms will
Speaker 1: drop and go ahead and take that nap, you know,
Speaker 1: instead of trying to pound more coffee and power through
Speaker 1: the naps. It is the ultimate nap. I was actually
Speaker 1: in Mexico last and we started to follow the pattern
Speaker 1: of these cus deer we were hunting, and there, you know,
Speaker 1: we were describing it is kind of like the dial
Speaker 1: of the day. Like you would click it over and
Speaker 1: it would be like this pre dawn dusk where the
Speaker 1: deer started to move, and then around ten a m.
Speaker 1: They would click it over to everybody got in the shade,
Speaker 1: lay down, let's chill. Then you would click it about
Speaker 1: four o'clock. It would click into this like post you know,
Speaker 1: post earlier, you know, post sunny hot time, where it
Speaker 1: was they we're gonna move. You look at dusk and
Speaker 1: a lot of the animals we hunt crepuscular, and that's
Speaker 1: what they do. But we started to get up in
Speaker 1: the morning, we go out there. We'd be still during
Speaker 1: that time, or the deer move and we'll be following
Speaker 1: them on a ridge or whatever. Ten o'clock would come.
Speaker 1: We know, we'd get up on a ridge, get in
Speaker 1: some shade, do exactly what the deer were doing, and
Speaker 1: then take a nap. You know, during the hot times
Speaker 1: of the day. Four o'clock would roll around. We get
Speaker 1: up and do basically what the same deer we're doing,
Speaker 1: hunt them the way that they lived. And that was
Speaker 1: the first time I ever thought about that way, the
Speaker 1: first time I ever realized we're basically just being the
Speaker 1: deer at this point. And I bet it felt damn good.
Speaker 1: It was awesome. And that nap during the day, I'm
Speaker 1: like this, the deer's taking a nap. I'll take a break.
Speaker 1: And right now, what are we doing? We're being the
Speaker 1: idealized model of the perfect industrial cog in the machine,
Speaker 1: like that's what Okay, show up at eight am, work
Speaker 1: till six pm, blah blah blah, Like okay, but that's
Speaker 1: not an animal that we're approximate. That's not like what
Speaker 1: our body wants. That's what like the man wants, you know,
Speaker 1: like that's what stress or guys like trying to get
Speaker 1: to work with Oh my got it? Seven? Yeah, what
Speaker 1: happens at eight and then and then work all through
Speaker 1: the day. Like it's just a weird structure. I understand
Speaker 1: for efficiency. Look, I run a company and we have
Speaker 1: those hours too, But also if I catch if I
Speaker 1: see someone napping in the middle of the day or
Speaker 1: working out or whatever, that's also encouraged. Like I realized,
Speaker 1: like you can't hold human beings two artificial schedules and
Speaker 1: expect them to be at their best performance, either their
Speaker 1: happiness or their performance. So you know, I talked about
Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff in the book too, like
Speaker 1: how do we apply these principles that become instinctive to
Speaker 1: all other animals and apply those two a life lived
Speaker 1: as a human being in normal society and all this.
Speaker 1: Every conversation I have with some MyD it just seems
Speaker 1: like we always get back to this thing because I,
Speaker 1: other than my family, I think about hunting like almost
Speaker 1: every day all the time. It's it's kind of unhealthy,
Speaker 1: But it always comes back to this, like a great
Speaker 1: conversation about this enriching thing that I've done and you've done,
Speaker 1: and we all kind of have experience and it's changed
Speaker 1: our lives. But everybody seems to not understand it and
Speaker 1: not like it like everything. You we both live in Austin, Texas.
Speaker 1: We're sitting right now in Austin, Texas. If you walk
Speaker 1: down sixth Street, you know, and started asking people what
Speaker 1: do you think about hunting and showing him picture, most
Speaker 1: people would be like, that's some bullshit. Yeah, like wise
Speaker 1: I gout doing that. Well, I think we've shown a
Speaker 1: spotlight on the wrong thing, you know, Like what makes
Speaker 1: the news is that the guy who quietly goes out,
Speaker 1: says a prayer over his bullets and his gun, and
Speaker 1: goes and takes an animal from a field and cries
Speaker 1: tears of gratitude and then takes the skin and puts
Speaker 1: it on his altar and eats the meat and smiles
Speaker 1: and has family gatherings. And does that make fucking news? No?
Speaker 1: See so the fucking lion makes the news, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, And it's we're shining a light on
Speaker 1: the wrong thing. We're not. People aren't aware of what
Speaker 1: it could be. And I don't think that's it's not
Speaker 1: something that enough people are putting out because the people
Speaker 1: who are doing that aren't as vocal. They aren't talking
Speaker 1: about it, they aren't posting the big, the big post
Speaker 1: about it because that's not what it is. So I
Speaker 1: think we can get this kind of bias as to
Speaker 1: what it is. And I think that's why it's awesome
Speaker 1: you're having this podcast and I jump at the chance
Speaker 1: to talk about hunting because it's not something that comes
Speaker 1: up off into my conversations, but it's like fucking essential,
Speaker 1: and it's essential to start telling that other side of it.
Speaker 1: And not everybody's gonna do it like me, and that's cool,
Speaker 1: but at least, like shine the light on the full
Speaker 1: breath of the spectrum, not just shine the line on
Speaker 1: the shitty people who are remote control hunting, you know,
Speaker 1: for the sheer sport of it. You know, the clicking
Speaker 1: in online and have some remote control gun like that
Speaker 1: will make national news, but the other thing will never
Speaker 1: make the news that point. I can't figure that out.
Speaker 1: I can't figure out why the moral entanglements of hunting
Speaker 1: are elevated. And like there's other things that we do
Speaker 1: that have moral entanglements that we just kind of like
Speaker 1: slough off, like oh, Franklin barbecue, I love love youre
Speaker 1: and Franklin. Sorry, but like that dude, just you know,
Speaker 1: wholesale killing cows and people wait in line for it
Speaker 1: and it's celebrated, and they're just we don't people aren't
Speaker 1: standing in line thinking about the moral entanglements of what
Speaker 1: they're what they're engaged in at that level because hunting.
Speaker 1: Hunting is decentralized. There's no hunting collective industry really that
Speaker 1: it's like it's each each individual interactions, you know, So
Speaker 1: nobody has those big, deep corporate pockets to support other
Speaker 1: than maybe some gear suppliers or some people like that,
Speaker 1: but they're not in this big lobbying game whereas you
Speaker 1: talk about like the meat industry or the dairy industry.
Speaker 1: Now they're swinging a big fucking stick around. And like,
Speaker 1: if you're a news company and you you know, don't
Speaker 1: want to preclude the opportunity to have advertising from real
Speaker 1: milk or some other advertiser that's advertising on your network.
Speaker 1: Then you know, you just have to look at the influence.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately that's the world we live in where these
Speaker 1: dollars kind of create bias and also it's something that
Speaker 1: they can shock people with, whereas that other heartwarming story
Speaker 1: about it is you know, someone really has to pay attention.
Speaker 1: It doesn't fit with the conversation. Yeah, I'd also think
Speaker 1: about like I've skied a couple of times, but I'm
Speaker 1: not I no ski or snowboarder or anything like that.
Speaker 1: But I don't think anybody skis down that mountain thinking like, man,
Speaker 1: this could be habitat like this. I feel very morally
Speaker 1: I should probably when I get down to the bottom
Speaker 1: of the mountain gonna put my hand on the ground
Speaker 1: and cry because this because something used to live here
Speaker 1: and now I'm just skiing down this for my own
Speaker 1: pleasure and then riding up on a giant chair that's
Speaker 1: attached to a cable. So I always I just it's
Speaker 1: something I've always thought about, like what or thought about
Speaker 1: recently since we've been have these goods. We're so we're
Speaker 1: so fucked up about death too, you know, like our
Speaker 1: whole concept about all death. Human death, animal death were
Speaker 1: so removed from it. You know, death is just a
Speaker 1: part of life when you're in the animal way, like
Speaker 1: you're in another culture. Everybody saw all things die, Like
Speaker 1: it's shocking to see something die for most people because
Speaker 1: they've never seen it. And we do weird, weird things
Speaker 1: like pump bodies full of formaldehyde and you visit them
Speaker 1: weirdly and it's like whoa man, Like, we're just all
Speaker 1: weird about it. And I think it's partly a lack
Speaker 1: of real spiritual understanding of where that energy goes or
Speaker 1: what happens, and everybody gets entitled to their own beliefs,
Speaker 1: and that in part just this lack of exposure to it.
Speaker 1: And then weird overexposure and TV and like where you're
Speaker 1: in video games and stuff where it's death everywhere, but
Speaker 1: then in reality, death nowhere, and it's just like we're
Speaker 1: just really out of balance with what that really is like.
Speaker 1: And so, you know, I think that's something that else
Speaker 1: that if you really want to know what life is about,
Speaker 1: like you know what death is about, like here the
Speaker 1: death moan of a bear, like understand the appropriate response
Speaker 1: for leaving the earth, you know, well, that's why you
Speaker 1: see a lot of hunters haven't go into posting the
Speaker 1: crocodile balls and impola video like or the bear kills
Speaker 1: the cub videos because they want people to say like,
Speaker 1: hey man, I've seen this, like this is death. I
Speaker 1: I know death, and it's serious. Like there isn't any
Speaker 1: way to wash that out of the experience. There's no
Speaker 1: way to take it and hose off the blood like
Speaker 1: it's there all the time. Those bears are killing, those
Speaker 1: big boars are killing cubs like it's going out of
Speaker 1: style and there's no but you can't. You can't put
Speaker 1: suspenders on that bear and the hat on it and
Speaker 1: the rain jacket and make it all better and whatever
Speaker 1: you do, don't put gold chains on they especially in
Speaker 1: the psychedelic world. Um yeah, I think that that ties
Speaker 1: it all back to, like how do we how do
Speaker 1: we take this thing that's enriching and good and just
Speaker 1: I don't see anything bad about it. I don't people
Speaker 1: can take it and make it bad, just like trampers
Speaker 1: campers might go litter that the mint camping bad. How
Speaker 1: do we take this thing that's inherently good and figure
Speaker 1: out how to talk about I think you know, I
Speaker 1: think there's a space for a more ritualized like in
Speaker 1: spiritual communities, there's not a lot of hunters and that's bullshit,
Speaker 1: Like it's bullshit, And I think there's a space for
Speaker 1: a more ritualized hunting experience where you have somebody maybe
Speaker 1: you know, a Lakota elder who knows the old ways,
Speaker 1: you know, and and take someone out and it's like,
Speaker 1: this is how we hunt, this is how we prepare
Speaker 1: the animals, where you go through the complete experience from
Speaker 1: the prayers, from the songs the night before where you're
Speaker 1: trying to communicate with those spirits and ask them to come,
Speaker 1: and then taking the animal in the field and then
Speaker 1: skinning it, preparing it, making your jerky, skinning the animal,
Speaker 1: making whatever kind of crafts out of the other parts
Speaker 1: of the animal, and like that fucking experience would be
Speaker 1: radically transformative, you know. And I think there's a real
Speaker 1: space for that kind of because there's all kind of
Speaker 1: yoga retreats and ship seven day yoga retreat fourteen day
Speaker 1: what about a you know, seven day, fourteen day North
Speaker 1: Dakota hunting experience led by the native ls and you
Speaker 1: do a sweat lodge and kill an animal and prepare
Speaker 1: it and you know, painted like all right, funck yeah,
Speaker 1: Like there's a space for that. And I think that's important.
Speaker 1: And maybe that's not going to reach the masses, but
Speaker 1: it at least have more voices who are kind of
Speaker 1: embracing this other side and telling that other part of
Speaker 1: the narrative. And um, you know, if I had more time,
Speaker 1: maybe I could start to organize. I'd go with you
Speaker 1: because yeah, and I found that. I find that, you know,
Speaker 1: the two times we won't talk about the first time
Speaker 1: we went hunting, that's a whole another The first time
Speaker 1: Albrey and I met, we were sitting on top of
Speaker 1: like a high rack jeep getting just marauded by mosquitoes
Speaker 1: in this we won't say the name of it, in
Speaker 1: this high fence. We got tricked into a situation and
Speaker 1: we realized that some laugh though we had some fun
Speaker 1: with that crew. It's hard not to but any wait,
Speaker 1: we won't talk about that, but you know, and just
Speaker 1: when I was it was driving over here thinking about
Speaker 1: this conversation, I was thinking just to just I would
Speaker 1: almost every year try to go hunt with somebody that
Speaker 1: has a different perspective because sometimes we I always tend
Speaker 1: to hunt with my friends or people that I enjoy
Speaker 1: time with, and of course I know, intimately know, and
Speaker 1: a lot of times there's not a whole bunch of
Speaker 1: dynamics in that situation. You're kind of always getting the
Speaker 1: same thing. And UM to like just say, hey man,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go with Aubrey and check out his
Speaker 1: you know, just to kind of watch what he does
Speaker 1: and see see how that benefits me. Careful because I
Speaker 1: talked to have a good buddy, really good buddy, and
Speaker 1: he went hunting with someone who didn't really know that
Speaker 1: well and he's like, God, damn, that guy drove me crazy.
Speaker 1: You know. I was like, little, we'll just sitting and
Speaker 1: be quiet, and he was over there. Yeah, no, that
Speaker 1: you gotta be careful with that. But there's you know,
Speaker 1: there's a way to do that where you can see
Speaker 1: through somebody who hasn't experienced the same thing you have.
Speaker 1: Maybe there's a different way to think about it. Maybe
Speaker 1: there's a different way. And that's what I was thinking,
Speaker 1: like kicking this damn thing off, like who am I
Speaker 1: going to talk to? That can provide some different perspective.
Speaker 1: Because all due respect from all the people I know
Speaker 1: in the hunting industry that it's it's there's it's a bubble,
Speaker 1: it's group think, it's it's we're all kind of doing
Speaker 1: the same thing. We're super passionate. We got our heads
Speaker 1: down and a lot of times we don't ever look
Speaker 1: up and look around, like are we is this right? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Is that we're doing this right? Yeah? Yeah? I mean,
Speaker 1: and I think it would be cool for hunters to, like,
Speaker 1: you know, psychedelics aren't for everybody, and but if you're
Speaker 1: called to that path, like have a guided experience by
Speaker 1: someone who really knows what they're doing, the imagine it.
Speaker 1: Think of it like hunting and dangerous terrain, Like you
Speaker 1: want a guy who really knows what they're doing, doesn't
Speaker 1: have an ego, isn't going to be foolish, isn't gonna
Speaker 1: be stupid, but like do something that helps show you
Speaker 1: a deeper side of the life of the animals that
Speaker 1: you have. And you know, I think a lot of
Speaker 1: hunters are kind of like, oh, I don't want to
Speaker 1: do that because I don't want to find out that
Speaker 1: what I'm doing is wrong. Like I'll give you the
Speaker 1: fucking shortcut. What you're doing is not wrong. At the action,
Speaker 1: but how you're doing it might be able to be
Speaker 1: better and better to learn that. Now you know better
Speaker 1: to be able to carry that and face that because
Speaker 1: all all people have hunted since the beginning of time,
Speaker 1: like the action. Don't worry about the action. It's not
Speaker 1: gonna tell you not to hunt. It just might give
Speaker 1: you advice. I'm like, Okay, here's how to do it
Speaker 1: in like a cooler way. And the way I started
Speaker 1: hunting with my dad, And I feel like if my
Speaker 1: dad listens to these regular he's gonna think I'm talking ship.
Speaker 1: I love you, Dad. Like the way that we hunted
Speaker 1: was like if I look back now, like, man, we
Speaker 1: were some rednecks. We're red neck to the core. And
Speaker 1: if I would have told like fifteen year old Ben
Speaker 1: O'Brien this conversation, we're having to be like pussy, right,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get that. I just talk about like not travel,
Speaker 1: things that are serious to hunting and not all this.
Speaker 1: But I I said it in the last couple and
Speaker 1: I don't want to repeat myself on all these things.
Speaker 1: But I find myself more interested in the philosophies of
Speaker 1: this thing that I am interested in in what boost
Speaker 1: I should wear or whatever. Just I think just because
Speaker 1: it's it's such a complex thing that you could talk
Speaker 1: about it forever and never get to all of it. Yeah, well, man,
Speaker 1: I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about it because,
Speaker 1: like I said, I don't get that chance very much.
Speaker 1: And I know we've had those conversations and we're and
Speaker 1: we're digging them and uh so I appreciate you any time.
Speaker 1: And your podcast is I listen to all the time.
Speaker 1: There's the voices and the people that you have one
Speaker 1: that I have no idea about. Half of my followers
Speaker 1: I think came from your podcasts and just people that
Speaker 1: speak with open minds and just smart thinkers who have
Speaker 1: found different ways. And you know, I want to pull
Speaker 1: people along in their journey, which I find to be
Speaker 1: kick ass. And yeah, so yeah, thank you for that.
Speaker 1: Of course, thanks for this. Yeah, definitely, anybody interested in
Speaker 1: the book, by the way, just go to own the
Speaker 1: Day book dot com. I poured my soul into this thing,
Speaker 1: so I know you did. I remember talking to you
Speaker 1: like I I'll see you in a couple of months,
Speaker 1: go into a book retreat, and I'm never going to
Speaker 1: talk to you again. The Hourglass is empty. Man, we
Speaker 1: did it by later and the hour Glasses Empty. Episode
Speaker 1: number three is done. Appreciate you all joining. Much respect
Speaker 1: to Aubrey Marcus for joining us for the conversation. I
Speaker 1: love that guy. Um. He had to leave us after
Speaker 1: just the hour for the hour Glass because of course
Speaker 1: he is the CEO of a giant company and he's
Speaker 1: got a lot of things to do. Um, but we
Speaker 1: had him for an hour, which I appreciated as always,
Speaker 1: and hopefully you can tell by that that podcast. Albury
Speaker 1: is the type of dude who you can sit around
Speaker 1: and have a beer with and quote will feral movies
Speaker 1: and laugh like a teenager. But he's also a dude
Speaker 1: that you can go and sit in meditation with talk
Speaker 1: about spirit for oneness. I mean, he really just eased
Speaker 1: one of the more unique people that you'll ever meet.
Speaker 1: So I hope that came through in podcast number three.
Speaker 1: Really appreciate you joining us so, as always, go to
Speaker 1: the Hunting Collective dot com for more videos, articles, all
Speaker 1: the podcasts we've done up to this point. Check out
Speaker 1: my Instagram feed at NYO B three or one that's
Speaker 1: where everything else emanates from, and check us out next week.
Speaker 1: For episode four, where I'll hope to be joined by
Speaker 1: episode three special guests, the one, the Only, Jonathan Dudley
Speaker 1: hope knock on, So join us next week for that one.
Speaker 1: Until then, Bye bye,