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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind listener mail.

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Speaker 2: This is Robert Lamb.

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Speaker 3: And this is Joe McCormick. And today we're doing one

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Speaker 3: of the episodes where we read messages from the Stuff

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Speaker 3: to Blow Your Mind email address. If you are a

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Speaker 3: listener and you have never gotten in touch before, now

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Speaker 3: is a great time to do it for the first time.

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Speaker 3: You can email us at contact at stuff to blow

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Speaker 3: your mind dot com. We welcome messages of any type,

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Speaker 3: whatever you think we might be interested to read. We,

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Speaker 3: of course, always love it if you have something cool

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Speaker 3: to add to a topic that we talked about. Maybe

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Speaker 3: we did a series on a subject and you know

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Speaker 3: something about that subject that we didn't get into in

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Speaker 3: the series itself. Put it on our radar. Share your

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Speaker 3: knowledge with us. Send us an email. If you ever

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Speaker 3: have a correction, of course, that's welcome. If you ever

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Speaker 3: just want to share what you like about the show,

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Speaker 3: where you listen from, say hi, you know, friendly chat,

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Speaker 3: any of that is fair game. Contact at StuffToBlowYourMind.com.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Love a good field report. And yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: going to be good to get into the old mailbag

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Speaker 2: here because we might not get back into it till

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Speaker 2: maybe even November because what we're going to try and

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Speaker 2: do here is use a buffer week in September to

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Speaker 2: get ahead and try and really double down on October

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Speaker 2: this year on our Halloween content. So if everything goes

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Speaker 2: according to plan, and sometimes it doesn't, you might not

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Speaker 2: get another listener mail until November. We'll see how it goes, though.

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Speaker 3: All right. Maybe we should kick things off with some

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Speaker 3: responses to our series on Mercury. I'm going to do

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Speaker 3: this message from Trey.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 3: Trey says, Hi, Rob and Joe. I was listening to

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Speaker 3: your episode on Mercury, and I wanted to add two

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Speaker 3: references from science fiction to Mercury and how its denizens

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Speaker 3: survived on the planet. This is picking up on a thread,

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Speaker 3: I think, from maybe the second or third part of

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Speaker 3: the series where we talked about different authors who had

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Speaker 3: imagined people living on Mercury, not always the most plausible

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Speaker 3: setting for a for a colony. But, you know, eventually,

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Speaker 3: if you're imagining there's enough stuff happening out in space.

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Speaker 3: People are going to end up there somehow. Yeah. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: back to Trey's message. Trey says one book entitled 2312

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Speaker 3: by Kim Stanley Robinson circles around the city Terminator on Mercury.

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Speaker 3: The city is massive and runs on tracks that keep

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Speaker 3: it from the uninhabitable portion of Mercury. So I guess

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Speaker 3: this would be keeping it off of the day side

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Speaker 3: of the planet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Imagine it would be trying to stay in the twilight area,

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Speaker 3: but I haven't read it, so I don't know. Trey says,

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Speaker 3: really interesting adaptation of living on the planet's surface. Another

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Speaker 3: book that has Mercury as a habitable planet with many

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Speaker 3: successful cities is in the Red Rising series by Adrian Pierce.

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Speaker 3: It is a major depot for the society, the faction

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Speaker 3: that the main character is at war with in the series.

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Speaker 3: Its cities exist underground. Hopefully these two examples expand Mercury

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Speaker 3: in sci-fi for you guys. You have my permission to

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Speaker 3: mention my name, uh, Trey. Okay. Well, there's your name, Trey. Uh, yeah.

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Speaker 3: And thanks for this. I don't really know anything about

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Speaker 3: Adrian Pierce. I love Kim Stanley Robinson, but I haven't

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Speaker 3: read this book yet. Uh, and there's actually another, uh, uh,

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Speaker 3: Robinson book that I also have not read, but was

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Speaker 3: reading about a little bit before our episode on science fiction. Uh,

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Speaker 3: so it's a Robinson's book called the memory of whiteness

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Speaker 3: from 1985, uh, which is apparently about a musician. There's

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Speaker 3: like an orchestra conductor who works with this weird futuristic

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Speaker 3: musical instrument and is doing a tour, doing performances throughout

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Speaker 3: the solar system, like starting out in some farther out

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Speaker 3: planet and then coming in closer and closer to the

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Speaker 3: sun as this tour goes on. And the plot involves

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Speaker 3: this musician being stalked by... I don't know, assassins or

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Speaker 3: somebody is, is trying to, uh, to interfere with him

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Speaker 3: or harm him. And the story I know ends up

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Speaker 3: involving a secretive monastic order of kind of sun worshiping

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Speaker 3: monks based on Mercury. But again, I haven't read the

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Speaker 3: book itself and I didn't have time to go much

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Speaker 3: deeper than that before the series, but it sounds interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. To my knowledge, I don't think I've

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Speaker 2: read any Kim Stanley Robinson. Now, um, as far as

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Speaker 2: red rising by Adrian Pierce, this series, uh, I have

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Speaker 2: not read it, but my wife read all of these

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Speaker 2: over the past several months, and she really enjoyed these.

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Speaker 2: But I have not read it yet. She recommended it

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Speaker 2: to me. But what I did read recently, this has

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Speaker 2: nothing to do with Mercury, but I greatly enjoyed the

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Speaker 2: novel The Devils by Joe Ambercrombie. Terrific read. It's a

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Speaker 2: fantasy sort of alternate earth sort of a novel. I'd

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Speaker 2: seen a lot of people recommend it to me. And

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Speaker 2: then I finally picked, um, both the book and the

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Speaker 2: audio book up and it was kind of like bouncing

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Speaker 2: back and forth between the two formats and, um, just

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Speaker 2: legitimately the best time I've had reading a fiction book

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Speaker 2: in a very long time. Nice. So free recommendation there.

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Speaker 2: And it's got, it's got lots of horror stuff in it.

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Speaker 2: So if you need something for Halloween, uh, listeners, I, I,

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Speaker 2: I recommend it. And it's also good for Christmas any month,

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Speaker 2: any month.

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Speaker 3: It's a good read. Uh, as far as, uh, Kim

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Speaker 3: Stanley Robinson recommendations go, I have recommended on the show

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Speaker 3: before his novel Aurora, and he's got big series to

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Speaker 3: like the Mars series and stuff, but the Aurora is

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Speaker 3: like a standalone novel. Uh, and I think it's really

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Speaker 3: interesting because it is a, it's a science fiction novel

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Speaker 3: that's about space exploration, but ends up being very much

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Speaker 3: about the virtues of earth. And I think that's a,

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Speaker 3: it's beautiful in that regard.

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Speaker 2: Hmm. Nice. All right, we have another one here related

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Speaker 2: to Mercury. I might as well read this one. This

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Speaker 2: one comes to us from Andrew. Andrew says, Joe and Robert,

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Speaker 2: congratulations for getting on Netflix. Now that Andrew has mentioned it, yes,

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Speaker 2: we are on Netflix. If you are not currently watching

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Speaker 2: and listening via Netflix, we'll just remind you that we

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Speaker 2: are on there. So if you want the video in

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Speaker 2: addition to the audio, you will find all of our

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Speaker 2: more recent episodes on there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: It's not a different show. It's the video version of

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Speaker 3: the same podcast we release in audio form.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You can consume however you like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So Andrew continues here and says, I liked the

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Speaker 2: first episode on Mercury. I really enjoyed the episodes you

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Speaker 2: did on the moons of Jupiter, Jupiter's children, and Saturn,

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Speaker 2: Saturn's brood. I listened to them a few times. I

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Speaker 2: liked the cold openings. The narrative of the opening gives

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Speaker 2: me a feeling of nostalgia for before I was born,

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Speaker 2: when radio was just invented. It was the idea of

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Speaker 2: being physically separated from other people, yet being connected to

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Speaker 2: other people's voices.

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Speaker 3: Andrew. Well, thanks, Andrew. Yeah, we had a lot of

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Speaker 3: fun making those episodes back in the day. I'd say

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Speaker 3: to be frank, a big difference was just back then

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Speaker 3: we had more time to work on individual episodes. So we, uh, could,

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Speaker 3: you know, script out narrative openings and, and I was

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Speaker 3: making music for some individual episodes and stuff. I made

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Speaker 3: music for those. And, um, so I don't know that

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Speaker 3: that was really fun. Um, maybe someday if we ever get,

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Speaker 3: you know, you know, breaks in the schedule or some padding,

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Speaker 3: we can do stuff like that again. But these days there's,

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Speaker 3: there's just not usually time for that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. We haven't done a cold open like that in

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Speaker 2: a while. Um, I guess I would make time for

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Speaker 2: it if a really good idea came to me, but

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Speaker 2: it just hasn't of late. But, you know, I'll think

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Speaker 2: about it. Maybe something will come to mind in the future.

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Speaker 2: But there is something to be said for the connection

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Speaker 2: to disembodied voices, right? I mean, that's been a huge

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Speaker 2: part of what has made podcasts popular. And I think

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Speaker 2: that is something that a number of our listeners can

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Speaker 2: resonate with. And certainly that's something It resonates with me

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Speaker 2: when I think about the different audio programs that I

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Speaker 2: put on. So, yeah, there's this interesting connection to old-timey

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Speaker 2: radio to be found in our modern media consumption.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I'm going to read this message from Kieran about

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Speaker 3: the dog days of summer, the boys of summer, and

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Speaker 3: then a bunch of other topics. Kieran goes all over

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Speaker 3: the place. Kieran, warning, we may have to make some

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Speaker 3: abbreviations to this email because it's a long one, as

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Speaker 3: you say. Kieran says, Hi, Joe and Rob. Kieran from

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Speaker 3: New Zealand writing here. I love all your various series

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Speaker 3: and often feel compelled to chime in, but time and

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Speaker 3: energy does not always permit. Yet here I am at

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Speaker 3: the keyboard, finally. So please excuse me if I cover

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Speaker 3: a variety of topics. First off, I love the amount

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Speaker 3: of Don Henley coverage the recent Dog Days series included.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't help thinking of another key Dog Days related

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Speaker 3: piece of media. Florence and the Machines at Dog Days

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Speaker 3: Are Over. You know the song, Rob?

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Speaker 2: I was having to look it up. I think I'd

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Speaker 2: heard it before. And it is timely that we're discussing

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Speaker 2: it now because dog days are over.

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Speaker 3: Officially, at our latitude.

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Speaker 2: For our latitude. So it is a fitting tune to

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Speaker 2: be discussing.

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Speaker 3: The way Kieran summarizes it is, it's less about the

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Speaker 3: Dylan Thomas-inspired summer as a metaphor for the end of

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Speaker 3: youth and death. And more of a ripper that we're

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Speaker 3: through the dog days. Perhaps it's a track to listen

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Speaker 3: to when the first cooler days of autumn arrive. Well,

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Speaker 3: we may be past the astronomical dog days, but it

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Speaker 3: is still hot as heck up here this week.

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Speaker 2: But I think there's been a shift. I mean, it

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Speaker 2: may get super hot again, but yeah, I was just

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Speaker 2: at the pool yesterday and it felt like... the first

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Speaker 2: time I was at the pool where it felt like

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Speaker 2: summer was beginning to slip away. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: We took our daughter to the, uh, museum this weekend.

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Speaker 3: And I just, the walk short walk from the museum

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Speaker 3: parking lot to the entrance of the museum was like

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Speaker 3: going through a level of hell. It was unbelievable. Just

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Speaker 3: searing sun. Uh, but yeah, maybe, maybe it is subsiding.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: I guess I've been indoor cat a lot the past

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Speaker 3: few days. Uh, anyway, uh, where was, oh yeah. Kieran says, uh,

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Speaker 3: learning about the dog star serious was fascinating. Uh, The

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Speaker 3: title of the aforementioned Dog Days song had a great

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Speaker 3: ring to it, of course, but now I have something

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Speaker 3: to pin it on. I went and looked this song

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Speaker 3: up again and I had heard it before, but it

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Speaker 3: seems like the lyrics are kind of about like coming

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Speaker 3: out of a dark place in your life and into

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Speaker 3: a kind of happiness and a sudden unexpected happiness.

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Speaker 2: It's a good feeling. Yeah, that sounds good.

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Speaker 3: Let's see. Kieran goes on to say, as you in

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Speaker 3: the northern hemisphere are in the season of the dog star,

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Speaker 3: we too in the southern hemisphere, in particular here in

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Speaker 3: New Zealand, are in the season of the rising of

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Speaker 3: the star cluster of Matariki, a.k.a. the Pleiades. Whereas Sirius

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Speaker 3: is linked to cursed stellar emanations, cloying heat and unfounded

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Speaker 3: connections to rabies, Matariki is linked to something far more

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Speaker 3: positive and hopeful. It's the Maori New Year. Officially, it

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Speaker 3: was celebrated on the 10th of July. As far as

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Speaker 3: I know, it's the world's first public holiday based on

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Speaker 3: indigenous beliefs. I could say more, but for brevity's sake,

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Speaker 3: I'll include a few links if you're curious. And then

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Speaker 3: Kieran does. And then Kieran says, I'm wondering, have you

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Speaker 3: ever done episodes or a series on the Pleiades? I'd

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Speaker 3: love to hear more as well. Your series often seem

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Speaker 3: to blow my mind, whatever the subject. I'll quickly add

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Speaker 3: that we are not immune to the dog star here,

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Speaker 3: as at full height, its madness-inducing powers seem to infuse

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Speaker 3: our Christmas rush during December with an extra degree of

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Speaker 3: heat and craziness. Yeah, y'all get the hot Christmas. Next topic,

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Speaker 3: this is taking us actually to Weird House Cinema. Kieran says,

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Speaker 3: The Soldier and Death. I was absolutely delighted that this

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Speaker 3: episode from Jim Henson's The Storyteller was featured on Weird

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Speaker 3: House Cinema. I saw the episode as a nine-year-old, and

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Speaker 3: it left a tremendous impression on me. The soldier, who

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Speaker 3: in the end could not enter heaven or hell for

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Speaker 3: his misdeeds, left to the melancholic wandering of Earth echoed

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Speaker 3: in my mind for decades. I acquired the DVD in

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Speaker 3: the 2000s and still enjoy a regular rewatch. I did

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Speaker 3: a rewatch not too long ago, and my four-year-old daughter

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Speaker 3: watched along with me. After seeing the Soldier in Death

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Speaker 3: episode along with me, uh, parentheses, big screams when the

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Speaker 3: card playing devils turn up.

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Speaker 2: Ha ha.

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Speaker 3: She told me off and said, dad, don't ever watch

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Speaker 3: that again. Uh, only Satsuki and Mei from now on,

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Speaker 3: which are the two sisters from My Neighbor Totoro. Also,

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Speaker 3: also a favorite of my daughter. There is something so

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Speaker 3: absolutely charming about the use of rotoscoping and other effects

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Speaker 3: in lieu of the more advanced techniques to come in

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Speaker 3: the future that often inspires my own creative endeavors. But

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Speaker 3: of course, it's the puppetry that is utterly exceptional and

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Speaker 3: still looks so brilliant even to this day, especially the

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Speaker 3: card-playing devils featured in the episode. Just fantastic. I want

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Speaker 3: to focus on the character of Death, however. I felt

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Speaker 3: this depiction of or this character in the episode related

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Speaker 3: well to your Faces of Death series, as it seemed

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Speaker 3: to incorporate aspects of all of the dominant three modes

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Speaker 3: in which death has been depicted in history. Yeah, this

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Speaker 3: is calling back to when we did a series on

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Speaker 3: personifications of death in the popular imagination and throughout culture.

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Speaker 3: There are some archetypes that pop up again and again,

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Speaker 3: different ways that people seem to picture death. And so

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Speaker 3: Kieran's going to run through these. Kieran says, if I

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Speaker 3: remember correctly, there was the equivalent of the sinister or

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Speaker 3: wicked trickster, the automaton, and the kind or caring mother.

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Speaker 3: When death is first depicted at the king's bed in

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Speaker 3: The Soldier in Death, it appears immediately dangerous, harmful, devious,

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Speaker 3: or menacing. The character design of death is immediately perceived

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Speaker 3: this way, something other and creepy. But as we learn

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Speaker 3: in the story, death serves a function. Death is a necessity. We,

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Speaker 3: the viewers, simply see death almost like a creature of instinct.

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Speaker 3: It doesn't choose to kill you and take your soul.

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Speaker 3: It simply operates by some divine design, impersonal, like the law.

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Speaker 3: I perceive this after the soldier makes his bargain for

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Speaker 3: the Tsar's soul. The character of death is almost mechanistic,

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Speaker 3: like an automaton. Then finally, we see how death is trapped.

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Speaker 3: Without the function of death in the world, we see

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Speaker 3: the never-ending suffering of humanity, where for some, death is

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Speaker 3: the kindest option. Finally, when death is released from the sack,

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Speaker 3: we see it flee in fear, far away from the soldier.

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Speaker 3: The viewers perceive the face as kind and even concerned

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Speaker 3: for those it has not been able to serve. This,

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Speaker 3: of course, is the caring mother. And all along, the

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Speaker 3: character design never changes, yet our perception of it does

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Speaker 3: as the story progresses. I guess this comes down to

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Speaker 3: the mastery of the character the Hinson team had acquired

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Speaker 3: over years of design and construction. It still amazes me

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Speaker 3: to this day. Oh, that's very interesting, Kieran. Yeah, so

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Speaker 3: the way that the... One thing we talked about in

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Speaker 3: the Weird House episode is the way the design of

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Speaker 3: the death puppet... there is full of um ambiguities it

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Speaker 3: seems to exist in this middle space it looks both

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Speaker 3: young and old both male and female both kind and

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Speaker 3: threatening it's like all these it's many ambiguities and uh

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Speaker 3: ambivalences uh and so yeah you can see in those

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Speaker 3: all of the main archetypes of death and the the

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Speaker 3: way uh it fits into the narrative also Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I love how also in that episode, there are

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Speaker 2: times where you don't really understand the scale of the entity.

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Speaker 2: And so there are times where you just assume it

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Speaker 2: is like normal human size. And then other times it

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Speaker 2: looks quite small, you know, it's like an elf or something.

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Speaker 2: Like a little creature. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then Kieran says, incidentally, many years ago, you mentioned

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Speaker 3: the design of the Minotaur in the Storyteller's Greek Myth series,

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Speaker 3: capturing both monstrous aggression and utter pity and human suffering perfectly.

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Speaker 3: A similar case of multiple interpretations, much like the death

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Speaker 3: character discussed earlier. Anyway, you may find my ideas around

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Speaker 3: this a bit of a stretch, but just thought I

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Speaker 3: would share them. No, Kieran, I think that's interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and I would argue correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is why Jim Henson's crew

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Speaker 2: were so great at what they did. There was nothing

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Speaker 2: in character design and puppet fabrication that was taken for

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Speaker 2: granted at all. Certainly not in performance either. They put

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Speaker 2: a lot of work into it. It wasn't just like,

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Speaker 2: let's make a puppet of this and see how it

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Speaker 2: comes together.

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Speaker 3: No. All right, Kieran, you got a lot of good

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Speaker 3: stuff in this email, but it's running pretty long, so

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Speaker 3: we're going to have to skip over some things. Maybe

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Speaker 3: we'll come back to some of them in the future.

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Speaker 3: One thing we should mention, because we did ask you

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Speaker 3: all about this, is following up on listeners trying to

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Speaker 3: guess my favorite bands. I mentioned Joe's Taste in Music,

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Speaker 3: the guessing game here. Kieran says, I remember Joe saying

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Speaker 3: his daughter loved his Black Sabbath record. So Sabbath, obviously.

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Speaker 3: I feel like this came up the last listener email

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Speaker 3: about this, but yes, that's true. And I would say

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Speaker 3: Black Sabbath Records, plural. And these are literally, I feel

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Speaker 3: like people are going to suspect that I tried to

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Speaker 3: force my daughter to be like this, but no, she

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Speaker 3: literally like it's the most common piece of music other

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Speaker 3: than the soundtrack of a movie that she likes. It

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Speaker 3: is the thing she asks for the most. She likes

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Speaker 3: the Skeleton record, which is Sabbath, Bloody Sabbath, and she

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Speaker 3: likes Paranoid, and she also likes the Coughing record, which

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Speaker 3: is the one that starts with Sweet Leaf. Master of Reality. Anyway,

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Speaker 3: Kieran says, I was also wondering if you liked Pentangle.

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Speaker 3: I noticed a real reverence for their sound regarding the

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Speaker 3: folk horror run of films on Weird House. Not psych

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Speaker 3: rock slash metal, but perhaps the psych with a twist

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Speaker 3: of folk will suffice? A recommendation for Joe. an album

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Speaker 3: from Kiwi psych rock duo Earth Tongue's Dungeon Vision, which

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Speaker 3: was produced by Master of the Fuzz pedal Ty Siegel.

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Speaker 3: They're doing a U.S. tour currently, but didn't see Atlanta mentioned. Wah-wah,

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Speaker 3: still check them out. I was not familiar with Earth Tongue,

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Speaker 3: but I've got them on the list. I'm going to

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Speaker 3: check them out after we record.

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Speaker 2: Now, are you familiar with Pentangle, though?

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Speaker 3: A little bit, yeah. I know Pentangle. I'm not like.

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Speaker 3: I'm not conversant on them. I've listened to them before

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Speaker 3: and liked them, but I don't know one album from another.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm pretty much the same. I'd listened to them

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Speaker 2: a little bit before, and I listened to them right

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Speaker 2: before the episode. I did remind myself that their music

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Speaker 2: factors into the 1970 film Tam Lin. This is the

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Speaker 2: Roddy McDowell-directed full-car film. I think his only directorial feature

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Speaker 2: But one that I've not seen, but it's been on

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Speaker 2: my list for a while to potentially check out for

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Speaker 2: Weird House. Totally.

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Speaker 3: Let's bump it up the list. Escalate the queue. Let's see. OK,

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Speaker 3: so we're going to close out Kieran's email here. Some

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Speaker 3: parting words. Kieran says, really appreciate you reading to this point.

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Speaker 3: Sorry if this comes off as too parasocial. but you're

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Speaker 3: both so great to listen to. Your consistent calm, curiosity,

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Speaker 3: critical thinking and humor bring a lot of good to

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Speaker 3: the world. So thanks and keep up the good work.

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Speaker 3: Very kind words. Thank you, Kieran. Oh, and thanks for

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Speaker 3: the send off regarding the great Sam Neill on Weird House,

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Speaker 3: a fantastic New Zealander. I know that many New Zealanders,

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Speaker 3: myself included, share immense pride in all he achieved during

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Speaker 3: his acting career whilst always being a down-to-earth, solid guy.

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Speaker 3: He will be greatly missed by so many. Okay, bye.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, Kieran. Excellent email.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely. Well, let's see. You know, we have another

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Speaker 2: one right here below it in our outline. This one's

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Speaker 2: from Lee. And Lee says, Greetings, Rob, Joe, and JJ.

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Speaker 2: I hope all is well with you as we get

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Speaker 2: into August. Obviously, we received this one a little while ago.

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Speaker 2: But it's also important to note because some of the

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Speaker 2: content of the episode. Lee says, I'm about two weeks

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Speaker 2: behind in my podcast feed, largely due to the number

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Speaker 2: I listen to. Anyway, in your Dog Day series, you

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Speaker 2: have a brief side quest into Don Henley. that sent

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Speaker 2: me on a side quest, a memory was jogged loose

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Speaker 2: of hearing the phrase The Boys of Summer as a

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Speaker 2: baseball reference. Pursuing the rabbit led me, of course, to

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Speaker 2: Don Henley, but tweaking my search a bit, I found it.

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Speaker 2: And I think this may be something we referred to

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Speaker 2: in passing, maybe in an episode after the one that

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Speaker 2: Lee's referring to here. The Boys of Summer is a

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Speaker 2: retrospective nickname for the Brooklyn Dodgers, stemming from a book

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Speaker 2: by Roger Kahn published in 1972. While the title did

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Speaker 2: indeed come from the poem by Dylan Thomas, the book

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Speaker 2: looks at the Brooklyn Dodgers team from the 40s through

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Speaker 2: their 1955 World Series win. There may be some allusion

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Speaker 2: to the end of the baseball season in addition to

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Speaker 2: the romantic relationships mentioned in the song.

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Speaker 3: Wait, it's a book about baseball and the title is

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Speaker 3: actually inspired by the Dylan Thomas poem?

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes. And this had come up in my research

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Speaker 2: because you will find sources online claiming that this book

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Speaker 2: was the inspiration for Don Henley in writing the lyrics

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Speaker 2: to The Boys of Summer. And from what I can tell,

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Speaker 2: he says that's not the case. I've seen him point

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Speaker 2: out in interviews like, yeah, I'm a big baseball fan,

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Speaker 2: but I'd actually never read this book. I wasn't familiar

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Speaker 2: with this book. So taking him on his word for

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Speaker 2: that seems to be the case. But it is frequently cited.

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Speaker 2: There are a lot of You look around online and

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Speaker 2: people will point this out as saying that this is

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Speaker 2: directly connected to the song when really it's more like

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Speaker 2: a triangle of inspirations here.

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Speaker 3: I'm just still stuck on actually being able to have

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Speaker 3: the Dylan Thomas in mind while you're thinking about this

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Speaker 3: sport you love. So you go to the baseball game,

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Speaker 3: you get your peanuts and your beer and you sit

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Speaker 3: down and think about how youth and vigor inevitably lead

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Speaker 3: to death and decay.

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Speaker 2: I mean, baseball fans are complex. I mean, I'm, I'm,

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Speaker 2: I'm not one of them, but I mean, you look

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Speaker 2: at guys like Stephen King, you know, he written, he

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Speaker 2: wrote at least one whole book about being a baseball fan. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this is, this is a good essay topic.

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Speaker 3: Baseball is death.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Somebody writes that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I, like I said, I just, I don't have

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Speaker 2: a very deep relationship with baseball. It's extremely surface level. So,

428
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,320
Speaker 2: you know, I can't even really speak to all this,

429
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:17,469
Speaker 2: but you know, I think we can, We can think

430
00:23:17,510 --> 00:23:19,730
Speaker 2: of two other interests we have. And, you know, if

431
00:23:19,790 --> 00:23:22,690
Speaker 2: it fills that occupies a significant portion of your life,

432
00:23:23,130 --> 00:23:25,250
Speaker 2: it ends up sort of leeching into the other things

433
00:23:25,290 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 2: that you think about. I guess so. Let's see a

434
00:23:28,820 --> 00:23:32,260
Speaker 2: little more from Lee here concerning baseball. It looks like

435
00:23:32,580 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 2: more recently, the local minor league team, the Richmond Flying Squirrels,

436
00:23:36,460 --> 00:23:39,670
Speaker 2: has occasionally had a pep band play at games called

437
00:23:39,710 --> 00:23:43,270
Speaker 2: the Boys of Summer. Unfortunately, my only online reference I

438
00:23:43,310 --> 00:23:45,850
Speaker 2: can find online is for an Eagles tribute band out

439
00:23:45,890 --> 00:23:48,750
Speaker 2: of New York. My memory may have been from pre-internet

440
00:23:48,790 --> 00:23:52,670
Speaker 2: days when the Squirrels were the Richmond Braves and part

441
00:23:52,710 --> 00:23:56,790
Speaker 2: of Atlanta's farm system. Still cool and does tie it together.

442
00:23:56,850 --> 00:24:00,380
Speaker 2: Love the podcast. Always look forward to each episode. Sincerely, Lee. Well,

443
00:24:00,390 --> 00:24:02,080
Speaker 2: I don't have much to say about any of the

444
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,419
Speaker 2: baseball stuff, but I appreciate folks writing in about it

445
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,219
Speaker 2: because certainly this is all stuff that's kind of outside

446
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,300
Speaker 2: of my knowledge. Anytime we have sports questions, it's great

447
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 2: to hear from folks.

448
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,260
Speaker 3: Okay, you want to move on to some messages about

449
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:17,160
Speaker 3: the Prairie series?

450
00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:17,580
Speaker 2: Sure.

451
00:24:18,330 --> 00:24:21,250
Speaker 3: I'll do this one from Troy. Subject line, The Little

452
00:24:21,290 --> 00:24:29,800
Speaker 3: House Books. Hi, Robert and Joe. Recently, my daughter and

453
00:24:29,859 --> 00:24:32,820
Speaker 3: I finished reading the complete Little House series by Laura

454
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,270
Speaker 3: Ingalls Wilder. And I think both of you would really

455
00:24:35,310 --> 00:24:37,910
Speaker 3: enjoy the books. They're full of hardship on an almost

456
00:24:37,970 --> 00:24:42,619
Speaker 3: apocalyptic scale, with plenty of action and some wonderful character development.

457
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:46,380
Speaker 3: I'm originally from Sioux Falls, South Dakota, and I mostly

458
00:24:46,420 --> 00:24:49,730
Speaker 3: remember seeing lots and lots of farmland. I do remember

459
00:24:49,770 --> 00:24:54,410
Speaker 3: seeing a grassland wildfire once. It didn't seem particularly threatening

460
00:24:54,450 --> 00:24:57,379
Speaker 3: at the time because it was at night, and although

461
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 3: the fire line was very long, it wasn't very wide.

462
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,740
Speaker 3: I remember thinking it could almost jump over the fire

463
00:25:03,780 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 3: line because all the grass behind it had already burned.

464
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,320
Speaker 3: In the Little House books, Charles, Laura's father, is constantly

465
00:25:11,380 --> 00:25:13,760
Speaker 3: trying to make a living as a farmer, but they

466
00:25:13,859 --> 00:25:18,750
Speaker 3: are repeatedly plagued by disasters. Wildfires destroy their crops. Enormous

467
00:25:18,790 --> 00:25:22,970
Speaker 3: swarms of grasshoppers or locusts eat virtually everything. We talked

468
00:25:22,990 --> 00:25:25,210
Speaker 3: about that in the part of the series about the

469
00:25:25,250 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 3: locust plague. And even migrating birds sometimes descend on the

470
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 3: fields and devour what is left. At least when the

471
00:25:33,740 --> 00:25:36,300
Speaker 3: birds came, they could shoot some of them and have

472
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 3: birds too. You also mentioned prairie madness, and that made

473
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 3: me think of one of the more unsettling episodes in

474
00:25:42,660 --> 00:25:45,200
Speaker 3: the books. When Laura is very young, she takes a

475
00:25:45,300 --> 00:25:48,580
Speaker 3: teaching job away from home to earn money, partly so

476
00:25:48,619 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 3: that her older sister Mary, who is blind, can attend

477
00:25:51,820 --> 00:25:56,010
Speaker 3: the school for the blind. Laura stays with a host family,

478
00:25:56,109 --> 00:25:58,450
Speaker 3: and the wife is extremely unhappy with her life on

479
00:25:58,470 --> 00:26:02,470
Speaker 3: the prairie and constantly longs to return east. At one point,

480
00:26:02,510 --> 00:26:05,650
Speaker 3: Laura describes the woman becoming so distraught that she screams

481
00:26:05,710 --> 00:26:08,010
Speaker 3: at her husband and approaches him in bed carrying a

482
00:26:08,050 --> 00:26:11,290
Speaker 3: butcher knife. It's probably the most disturbing episode in the

483
00:26:11,350 --> 00:26:15,109
Speaker 3: entire series. Despite that, the books are remarkably riveting and

484
00:26:15,210 --> 00:26:18,550
Speaker 3: overall surprisingly uplifting. One thing I learned from the books

485
00:26:18,630 --> 00:26:21,889
Speaker 3: was that wolves actually roamed the open prairie. I had

486
00:26:21,910 --> 00:26:24,450
Speaker 3: always pictured wolves as animals of the mountains, so that

487
00:26:24,490 --> 00:26:26,479
Speaker 3: was new to me, and I had no idea that

488
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,139
Speaker 3: grizzly bears once inhabited the open prairie either until you

489
00:26:30,180 --> 00:26:33,639
Speaker 3: mentioned it on the podcast. Thanks for the great episodes, Troy.

490
00:26:34,220 --> 00:26:34,840
Speaker 3: Thank you, Troy.

491
00:26:34,859 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that does sound very much in keeping

492
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,570
Speaker 2: with the trope of prairie madness.

493
00:26:40,030 --> 00:26:40,190
Speaker 1: Yeah.

494
00:26:40,859 --> 00:26:43,980
Speaker 2: And certainly the bit about the wolves also matches up

495
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 2: with what we were researching. And all this really makes sense.

496
00:26:48,540 --> 00:26:50,660
Speaker 2: I know that the series, Little House on the Prairie,

497
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,810
Speaker 2: has been popular for a very long time. It was

498
00:26:52,830 --> 00:26:54,950
Speaker 2: popular when I was a kid and long before I

499
00:26:54,990 --> 00:26:57,470
Speaker 2: was a kid. And I noticed that it looks like

500
00:26:57,510 --> 00:27:02,450
Speaker 2: there is a new multi-part adaptation, a new television series,

501
00:27:02,490 --> 00:27:05,800
Speaker 2: at least it's available streaming. I believe it's actually on Netflix.

502
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:09,340
Speaker 2: So I haven't watched it yet, but Clearly, that speaks

503
00:27:09,380 --> 00:27:11,560
Speaker 2: to the popularity of the series and the types of

504
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 2: stories that it tells. All right, let's see. What else

505
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:21,020
Speaker 2: do we have here? And the old listener mail. Maybe

506
00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: I'll do a shorter one. If I can find one. Oh,

507
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,770
Speaker 2: here's a bag. Well, this is not a shorter one,

508
00:27:28,810 --> 00:27:32,290
Speaker 2: but it'll be good to get into here. This one

509
00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:35,470
Speaker 2: comes to us from Jeff. Subject line, Dark Buffalo is

510
00:27:35,530 --> 00:27:45,439
Speaker 2: the Hulk. And he... proceeds as follows. Hey guys, the

511
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:48,129
Speaker 2: Lewis and Clark shenanigans made me curious as to whether

512
00:27:48,250 --> 00:27:52,630
Speaker 2: you've heard of the Mad Trapper. Okay, I didn't know

513
00:27:52,690 --> 00:27:55,930
Speaker 2: what they were talking about at this point. Ever since

514
00:27:56,030 --> 00:27:59,630
Speaker 2: learning about him, I've interpreted his tale as tragic, yes,

515
00:27:59,820 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 2: but also a crazy, hilarious, cartoon-like story of a guy

516
00:28:03,940 --> 00:28:07,230
Speaker 2: who just really, really wanted to be left alone. Apparently,

517
00:28:07,290 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 2: he was just some suspicious dude in the Yukon authorities

518
00:28:10,390 --> 00:28:13,959
Speaker 2: wanted to question. He was spectacularly uncooperative, and they had

519
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 2: no interest in de-escalation. Eventually, this led to an Elmer

520
00:28:17,420 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 2: Fudd vs. Bugs Bunny-style siege on his cabin, where increasingly

521
00:28:21,859 --> 00:28:24,919
Speaker 2: large groups of Mounties were sent to interrogate him, and

522
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 2: each returned empty-handed with casualties, until eventually they blew his

523
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:32,240
Speaker 2: house up with dynamite, which still didn't defeat him. He escaped,

524
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,540
Speaker 2: and there was a manhunt involving more and more Mounties, trackers,

525
00:28:35,580 --> 00:28:38,640
Speaker 2: and ultimately a military pilot searching from the air. By

526
00:28:38,660 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: the time of the weeks-long chase, or I guess by

527
00:28:43,580 --> 00:28:45,830
Speaker 2: the time it ended, it was a popular running story

528
00:28:45,850 --> 00:28:48,410
Speaker 2: in the newspapers. Finally, his frozen body was found, and

529
00:28:48,430 --> 00:28:51,790
Speaker 2: the media described his face as being, quote, frozen into

530
00:28:51,830 --> 00:28:55,830
Speaker 2: a mask of evil and terror, or something like that. Okay.

531
00:28:56,970 --> 00:28:59,130
Speaker 3: I don't know anything about the story. I'd never heard

532
00:28:59,170 --> 00:28:59,410
Speaker 3: of this.

533
00:29:01,150 --> 00:29:03,130
Speaker 2: People have for years tried to figure out who the

534
00:29:03,170 --> 00:29:06,350
Speaker 2: trapper was and what was his deal, but his identity

535
00:29:06,390 --> 00:29:08,770
Speaker 2: remains a mystery. They've made some movies based on the story,

536
00:29:08,830 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 2: but on first glance, they didn't look weird houseable. Whenever

537
00:29:13,100 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 2: my Canadian friend and I are around a new person,

538
00:29:15,380 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 2: I like to describe the Mad Trapper as, quote, Canada's

539
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:20,900
Speaker 2: greatest folk hero and explain that once a year kids

540
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:23,370
Speaker 2: dress up as him while other kids pretending to be

541
00:29:23,380 --> 00:29:26,790
Speaker 2: Mounties chase them around, while my exasperated friend just shakes

542
00:29:26,810 --> 00:29:28,730
Speaker 2: his head and says, no, no, he isn't. It's not

543
00:29:28,810 --> 00:29:32,300
Speaker 2: anything like that, and so forth. Any chance Rob has

544
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:39,410
Speaker 2: some ancestral memories of this potential X-Man? Um, Wolverine. I mean,

545
00:29:39,430 --> 00:29:41,970
Speaker 2: I guess it's, it's tempting to sort of apply a

546
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:47,600
Speaker 2: Wolverine template to this particular, uh, figure. Um, yeah, this

547
00:29:47,700 --> 00:29:51,960
Speaker 2: is a figure that I think is commonly understood to

548
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 2: be a man by the name of Albert Johnson. Um,

549
00:29:55,950 --> 00:29:58,739
Speaker 2: I haven't researched it in a bit, but I think

550
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:00,500
Speaker 2: it's one of those things where we don't 100% know

551
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,700
Speaker 2: who he was. But the story of the Mad Trapper,

552
00:30:04,420 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 2: I was familiar with because I saw one of the

553
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:09,120
Speaker 2: movie adaptations. I caught part of it on TV when

554
00:30:09,140 --> 00:30:13,660
Speaker 2: I was a kid. It's a 1981 movie titled Death Hunt.

555
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,580
Speaker 2: And I would agree, as I recall, it's not very

556
00:30:17,620 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: weird housey. It's pretty boiled down. But, um, it has

557
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 2: a pretty great cast. It has Charles Bronson in it

558
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,790
Speaker 2: playing the trapper. You got Lee Marvin, I believe playing

559
00:30:28,830 --> 00:30:31,230
Speaker 2: like the lead Mountie that's up against him or the lead,

560
00:30:31,250 --> 00:30:33,470
Speaker 2: you know, authority figure. And then you got some other

561
00:30:33,510 --> 00:30:37,150
Speaker 2: interesting members of the cast, including Scott Highlands plays the

562
00:30:37,210 --> 00:30:39,750
Speaker 2: pilot of the airplane. Scott Highlands has been in a

563
00:30:39,770 --> 00:30:42,070
Speaker 2: bunch of stuff. He's come up on weird house. Um,

564
00:30:42,390 --> 00:30:45,290
Speaker 2: he played the, um, the older guy in charge of

565
00:30:45,330 --> 00:30:50,050
Speaker 2: the Arborea Institute in beyond the black rainbow. Um, I

566
00:30:50,090 --> 00:30:53,670
Speaker 2: think he's passed in recent years, but his acting credits

567
00:30:53,690 --> 00:30:59,100
Speaker 2: go way back. But I remember finding the film slightly

568
00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 2: weird because it just was not a scenario I'd ever

569
00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,840
Speaker 2: thought about. Like, I'd done part of my growing up

570
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,740
Speaker 2: exposed to the Mounties, and the Mounties were presented to

571
00:31:07,780 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 2: me in a very glowing light. Like, surely the main

572
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,040
Speaker 2: character in a film wouldn't be going up against the Mounties.

573
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:18,110
Speaker 2: It just seemed weird. But again, I've not actually watched

574
00:31:18,170 --> 00:31:22,290
Speaker 2: this as a, as a grown person, just childhood memories

575
00:31:22,330 --> 00:31:23,310
Speaker 2: of catching it on TV.

576
00:31:24,330 --> 00:31:26,469
Speaker 3: So the movie, does the movie kind of make this

577
00:31:26,510 --> 00:31:27,830
Speaker 3: character out to be the hero?

578
00:31:27,950 --> 00:31:31,630
Speaker 2: Like, you know, that's my vague memory of it, but

579
00:31:31,750 --> 00:31:34,550
Speaker 2: also I don't know how many antihero sort of movies

580
00:31:34,590 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: I'd really watched. So I might've been, I might've been

581
00:31:37,020 --> 00:31:39,860
Speaker 2: personally confused as a kid as to how I was

582
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:42,940
Speaker 2: supposed to take all of this. But I think that

583
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: was the case. That's my impression.

584
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,680
Speaker 3: I'll just say I don't know enough about the story

585
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:48,510
Speaker 3: to make a judgment. So this is should not be

586
00:31:48,570 --> 00:31:52,010
Speaker 3: taken as an endorsement of the criminal known as Albert Johnson.

587
00:31:52,030 --> 00:31:54,110
Speaker 3: I don't know what he was actually up to. Could

588
00:31:54,130 --> 00:31:55,470
Speaker 3: have been bad stuff for all I know.

589
00:31:55,690 --> 00:31:55,890
Speaker 1: Yeah.

590
00:31:56,030 --> 00:31:58,610
Speaker 2: But anyway, I was not expecting to. I had not

591
00:31:58,650 --> 00:32:00,490
Speaker 2: really thought about this movie in a long time. So

592
00:32:01,290 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 2: I was impressed. So enjoyed some back and forth there

593
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,380
Speaker 2: responding to to Jeff about all of this. And Jeff

594
00:32:08,420 --> 00:32:10,960
Speaker 2: did also provide an image for us here. Send us

595
00:32:11,020 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 2: a picture of two. let us know what Henry Rollins

596
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:19,270
Speaker 2: looked like before he became a buffer individual. I mean,

597
00:32:19,290 --> 00:32:23,090
Speaker 2: I wasn't really doubtful. I don't remember ever seeing these images.

598
00:32:23,130 --> 00:32:25,470
Speaker 2: But yeah, I guess he was less beefy back in

599
00:32:25,490 --> 00:32:27,910
Speaker 2: the days, back in the Black Flag days, right?

600
00:32:28,390 --> 00:32:29,930
Speaker 3: How did that come up on the podcast?

601
00:32:30,250 --> 00:32:33,990
Speaker 2: I don't even remember. Maybe it was another listener mail

602
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 2: or something. Because again, I think of Henry Rollins, I

603
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,940
Speaker 2: just think of Rollins Band era, like buff Henry Rollins.

604
00:32:41,510 --> 00:32:44,530
Speaker 3: But legend tells once there was.

605
00:32:44,290 --> 00:32:46,990
Speaker 2: A skinny Rollins. There was a blank year. Yeah. Henry, yes,

606
00:32:47,070 --> 00:32:47,670
Speaker 2: back in the day.

607
00:32:48,570 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 3: Okay, are you all right if I do this message

608
00:32:50,620 --> 00:32:51,190
Speaker 3: from Ahmed?

609
00:32:51,410 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it.

610
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 3: Ahmed writes in, Ahmed, frequent correspondent, always has great emails.

611
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 3: Subject line here, Plains Indian Sign Language. Ahmed says, Hi folks,

612
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 3: great series about the prairie. I wanted to write in

613
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,790
Speaker 3: about not so much the ecology, but rather the linguistic

614
00:33:14,850 --> 00:33:18,710
Speaker 3: history of the native people of the prairie. Specifically, I

615
00:33:18,790 --> 00:33:23,690
Speaker 3: wanted to mention Plains Indian Sign Language, or PISL, also

616
00:33:23,730 --> 00:33:26,930
Speaker 3: sometimes known as hand talk, as well as by other names.

617
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:31,180
Speaker 3: If you Google a map of language families of North America,

618
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 3: The first thing you're struck by is, wow, that is

619
00:33:34,100 --> 00:33:37,070
Speaker 3: a lot of language families. For those like myself whose

620
00:33:37,110 --> 00:33:41,190
Speaker 3: default setting is Indo-European mode, with languages as seemingly different

621
00:33:41,250 --> 00:33:45,190
Speaker 3: as English, Russian, Armenian, and Hindi all being members of

622
00:33:45,310 --> 00:33:48,630
Speaker 3: one large family, it can be mind-boggling to look at.

623
00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 3: There are some particularly dense areas of the continent, like California,

624
00:33:53,540 --> 00:33:56,380
Speaker 3: but the plains and prairies are certainly not slacking either.

625
00:33:57,020 --> 00:34:00,680
Speaker 3: An ingenious system that Native people developed to communicate with

626
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:05,350
Speaker 3: other groups speaking unrelated languages on the plains was PISL,

627
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:09,970
Speaker 3: which is a bona fide language, not just spontaneous gesticulating,

628
00:34:10,410 --> 00:34:14,529
Speaker 3: and has a systematized grammar of over-my-head rules. This really

629
00:34:14,570 --> 00:34:17,570
Speaker 3: doesn't give itself to podcasting, but here is a video

630
00:34:17,630 --> 00:34:21,910
Speaker 3: from a 1930 meeting of indigenous plains leaders that a U.S.

631
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:26,900
Speaker 3: officer organized to document PISL that shows it in action. Rob,

632
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:28,700
Speaker 3: so I looked at this video earlier, but you can

633
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,540
Speaker 3: look it up. And so, yeah, this is a man

634
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,580
Speaker 3: signing as he speaks, and it's got some like subtitles

635
00:34:34,640 --> 00:34:37,890
Speaker 3: and narration along. So, yeah, you can get the interpretation

636
00:34:37,910 --> 00:34:41,130
Speaker 3: of what he's saying. Ahmed says, just some of the

637
00:34:41,190 --> 00:34:46,590
Speaker 3: distinct unrelated language families and their Plains members include Siouan

638
00:34:46,870 --> 00:34:52,270
Speaker 3: with members like Lakota and Crow, Yudo Aztecan like Comanche

639
00:34:52,410 --> 00:34:58,529
Speaker 3: and Shoshone, Cadowan like Pawnee and Wichita, Tenoan, like Kiowa,

640
00:34:58,969 --> 00:35:02,610
Speaker 3: and Algik, like Arapaho and Cheyenne. It truly is a

641
00:35:02,710 --> 00:35:05,989
Speaker 3: stunning diversity, though it unfortunately will not be surprising to

642
00:35:06,030 --> 00:35:08,820
Speaker 3: learn that while some of these languages are still vibrant,

643
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:13,399
Speaker 3: many are either threatened or extinct after centuries of genocide, displacement,

644
00:35:13,700 --> 00:35:17,530
Speaker 3: and forced assimilation policies. It really is a sobering reminder

645
00:35:17,590 --> 00:35:20,070
Speaker 3: about what has been lost and what, owing to the

646
00:35:20,110 --> 00:35:23,230
Speaker 3: resilience of the native people of this continent, still remains.

647
00:35:23,870 --> 00:35:27,569
Speaker 3: PISL and jargons are such a great example of the

648
00:35:27,610 --> 00:35:31,690
Speaker 3: human drive to communicate with others across cultural and linguistic differences,

649
00:35:32,050 --> 00:35:33,790
Speaker 3: and they might make a good topic for a Stuff

650
00:35:33,830 --> 00:35:36,250
Speaker 3: to Blow Your Mind podcast someday. Anyway, keep up the

651
00:35:36,290 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 3: great work, Ahmed. Thank you, Ahmed. Yeah, really interesting.

652
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:41,550
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Thanks for writing in.

653
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 3: I would definitely like to learn more about this. I'm

654
00:35:44,219 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 3: really interested by the question of why it would be

655
00:35:47,290 --> 00:35:51,029
Speaker 3: hand gestures instead of just like a secondary shared language,

656
00:35:51,130 --> 00:35:53,739
Speaker 3: you know, that, that is shared by a bunch of different, uh,

657
00:35:53,980 --> 00:35:57,500
Speaker 3: language groups to communicate between each other, uh, a second

658
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:00,440
Speaker 3: spoken language. Why go to hand gestures? I'm, I'm sure

659
00:36:00,460 --> 00:36:02,339
Speaker 3: there's some, some interest in that.

660
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:02,779
Speaker 2: So, yeah.

661
00:36:03,580 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 3: Um, anyway, very cool. Thanks Ahmed.

662
00:36:14,420 --> 00:36:16,660
Speaker 2: All right. Here's another one. This one comes to us

663
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,900
Speaker 2: from Abby. Subject line, I love your work. Thank you

664
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,270
Speaker 2: for Rocky Erickson. Before we even get into it, we

665
00:36:25,050 --> 00:36:27,169
Speaker 2: can help share the word of Rocky Erickson, but we

666
00:36:27,370 --> 00:36:30,890
Speaker 2: had no active role in the creation.

667
00:36:30,469 --> 00:36:35,430
Speaker 3: Of Rocky Erickson. Did not invent him. Though I'm tempted

668
00:36:35,469 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 3: to try to work that into his lyrics somehow. Spare

669
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 3: me your theory, alien eye creator.

670
00:36:40,660 --> 00:36:43,580
Speaker 2: Yeah, he might have had a different take on it.

671
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:45,879
Speaker 2: At any rate, Abby writes in and says, Dear Robert

672
00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:48,060
Speaker 2: and Joe, thank you from the bottom of my heart

673
00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:49,739
Speaker 2: for the work you do. Over the last year, Stuff

674
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,650
Speaker 2: to Pull Your Mind has quickly become a highlight of

675
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,720
Speaker 2: my week. I love the mix of science, mythology, and

676
00:36:53,790 --> 00:36:57,250
Speaker 2: other interesting random facts you bring to the exploration of

677
00:36:57,330 --> 00:37:01,370
Speaker 2: invariably interesting topics. Your delivery and rapport is impeccable. Please

678
00:37:01,430 --> 00:37:04,670
Speaker 2: never stop. As someone who loves good music, all things gothic,

679
00:37:04,710 --> 00:37:11,710
Speaker 2: and intriguing lyricism that invites further investigation, example, placebo's Brian

680
00:37:11,890 --> 00:37:15,700
Speaker 2: Mulk's Cerebral Lyricism. I don't know this artist.

681
00:37:16,050 --> 00:37:17,219
Speaker 3: I don't know enough about this either.

682
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,419
Speaker 2: Okay, so someone else write in, or certainly Abby write

683
00:37:21,460 --> 00:37:23,180
Speaker 2: in and give us a little more to go on there.

684
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 2: But anyway, they continue. I cannot believe I was not

685
00:37:25,620 --> 00:37:28,020
Speaker 2: previously aware of Rocky Erickson. Thank you very much for

686
00:37:28,060 --> 00:37:31,730
Speaker 2: bringing him to my attention in your From the Vault podcast, St.

687
00:37:31,810 --> 00:37:35,670
Speaker 2: Swithin's Revenge. I now love this quote-unquote Halloween man and

688
00:37:35,730 --> 00:37:38,770
Speaker 2: his intriguing backstory. It's a great thing to find someone

689
00:37:38,810 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 2: who combines complicated, symbol-laden lyricism, psychological vulnerabilities, and highly listenable music.

690
00:37:45,500 --> 00:37:48,420
Speaker 2: Thank you for this valued addition to my playlist.

691
00:37:49,140 --> 00:37:52,839
Speaker 3: Well, I'm so glad you're enjoying Rocky. And for folks

692
00:37:52,860 --> 00:37:55,480
Speaker 3: who don't remember, the Halloween man is a reference to

693
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,140
Speaker 3: what my daughter said about Rocky Erickson. She also loves

694
00:37:58,219 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 3: Rocky Erickson and requests to listen to Two-Headed Dog. But

695
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 3: she said, I think what she said about him is

696
00:38:03,239 --> 00:38:06,100
Speaker 3: he's just a Halloween guy. That's accurate.

697
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:09,100
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he would have agreed with that. I've

698
00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,279
Speaker 2: occasionally had the song. The rest of my family is

699
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:13,600
Speaker 2: not as crazy about Rocky Erickson. I think I played

700
00:38:13,620 --> 00:38:16,460
Speaker 2: some for my kiddo once. And it was Bloody Hammer.

701
00:38:16,500 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 2: And they were like, what are we listening to? They

702
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,050
Speaker 2: weren't a fan. But fair enough. They don't have to

703
00:38:23,090 --> 00:38:28,210
Speaker 2: like everything I like. Let's see. From there, Abby goes

704
00:38:28,270 --> 00:38:31,529
Speaker 2: on to bring up the question regarding the term at all.

705
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:36,120
Speaker 2: When we're referring to studies where there are multiple authors,

706
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 2: and sometimes we'll say, oh, this is a study by

707
00:38:39,300 --> 00:38:43,540
Speaker 2: Rocky Erickson et al., referring to Rocky Erickson in this

708
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,739
Speaker 2: hypothetical case, his fellow researchers and writers that are helping

709
00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:51,930
Speaker 2: put together a study. And they bring up the idea

710
00:38:51,950 --> 00:38:54,590
Speaker 2: that when saying et al. out loud in a podcast,

711
00:38:54,690 --> 00:38:58,029
Speaker 2: one should maybe say, and colleagues, I've also seen it

712
00:38:58,469 --> 00:39:01,219
Speaker 2: recommended that people should say, and others should And I

713
00:39:01,260 --> 00:39:03,180
Speaker 2: think sometimes on the show, I mean, I'll just say

714
00:39:03,219 --> 00:39:05,820
Speaker 2: at all, because it's also the fastest, easiest thing to say.

715
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:08,830
Speaker 2: And maybe that's a bit of a crutch. But other times,

716
00:39:08,850 --> 00:39:11,350
Speaker 2: I think I will say, and, you know, the other

717
00:39:11,390 --> 00:39:16,190
Speaker 2: investigators or the co-authors and so forth. But yeah, apologies

718
00:39:16,210 --> 00:39:19,150
Speaker 2: for any confusion that's caused anyone in the past wondering

719
00:39:19,230 --> 00:39:20,930
Speaker 2: what in the world we were saying. I know it

720
00:39:20,969 --> 00:39:22,790
Speaker 2: has confused some people from time to time.

721
00:39:23,690 --> 00:39:28,029
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're correct, Abby. I think people would, it would

722
00:39:28,090 --> 00:39:30,910
Speaker 3: probably be clearer to everyone if we just said and

723
00:39:30,989 --> 00:39:35,480
Speaker 3: co-authors or and others or and colleagues. But yes, I'm

724
00:39:35,520 --> 00:39:37,479
Speaker 3: probably not going to remember to do that every time.

725
00:39:37,620 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 3: But your recommendation is appreciated. You are correct that that's

726
00:39:42,140 --> 00:39:43,660
Speaker 3: easier for everybody to understand.

727
00:39:44,180 --> 00:39:47,339
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, anytime there's a topic like that,

728
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:50,469
Speaker 2: feel free to write it. We're always happy to to

729
00:39:50,590 --> 00:39:52,830
Speaker 2: be corrected or consider an alternate way of doing things.

730
00:39:54,870 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 3: Uh, let's see. Uh, Ooh, I can do, uh, this

731
00:39:57,540 --> 00:40:01,439
Speaker 3: short message from Elena about an older episode on oil

732
00:40:01,500 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 3: and troubled water. Oh, yes. Can we refresh on the

733
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 3: topic here? What was the inspiration for this?

734
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:11,130
Speaker 2: This was, and I forget where, um, I ran across it. Uh,

735
00:40:11,810 --> 00:40:13,130
Speaker 2: I'd have to go back and listen to the episode

736
00:40:13,170 --> 00:40:16,510
Speaker 2: myself to remind myself, but, uh, it's this old idea

737
00:40:16,530 --> 00:40:21,610
Speaker 2: that stormy waters could be, um, essentially cured by adding

738
00:40:21,930 --> 00:40:24,489
Speaker 2: some amount of oil to it. And it depended on

739
00:40:24,510 --> 00:40:27,070
Speaker 2: the telling, but sometimes as little as like a vial

740
00:40:27,110 --> 00:40:29,629
Speaker 2: of oil could be thrown into the ocean in order

741
00:40:29,650 --> 00:40:32,930
Speaker 2: to somehow calm the waters. And so we did, I

742
00:40:33,489 --> 00:40:35,100
Speaker 2: can't remember if it was a one part, two part

743
00:40:35,340 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 2: series or whatnot, but we got into it and we

744
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:41,739
Speaker 2: discussed like what science there is there, and there is

745
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,739
Speaker 2: a little bit, but then also like how this ends

746
00:40:44,820 --> 00:40:48,750
Speaker 2: up sort of echoing through popular beliefs across time. Yeah.

747
00:40:48,770 --> 00:40:50,770
Speaker 3: It's been a while, but my memory is that the,

748
00:40:51,130 --> 00:40:55,589
Speaker 3: the folklore of this is exaggerated. Like I think exaggerates

749
00:40:55,630 --> 00:40:58,239
Speaker 3: how effective it is, but there is some truth to it.

750
00:40:58,410 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 3: Like it is based on a real physics principle. Yeah.

751
00:41:06,820 --> 00:41:09,680
Speaker 3: So Elena says, hello, Robert and Joe. I was reading

752
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:13,700
Speaker 3: the scarlet letter by Nathaniel Hawthorne. Okay. Uh, and came

753
00:41:13,760 --> 00:41:16,100
Speaker 3: across a passage that reminded me of an episode of

754
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:20,729
Speaker 3: the show. So in this story, Dr. Roger Chillingworth wants

755
00:41:20,770 --> 00:41:24,649
Speaker 3: to give Hester Prynne, his estranged wife and the main

756
00:41:24,670 --> 00:41:28,320
Speaker 3: character of the novel, a medicine. And he says, drink it.

757
00:41:28,710 --> 00:41:31,730
Speaker 3: It may be less soothing than a sinless conscience, but

758
00:41:31,790 --> 00:41:35,469
Speaker 3: that that I cannot give thee. But it will calm

759
00:41:35,510 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 3: the swell and heaving of thy passion like oil thrown

760
00:41:38,980 --> 00:41:41,060
Speaker 3: on the waves of a tempestuous sea.

761
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:41,980
Speaker 2: Elena.

762
00:41:42,700 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 3: Thank you, Elena.

763
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,700
Speaker 2: A clear reference to the idea that oil could be

764
00:41:46,860 --> 00:41:48,760
Speaker 2: used to soothe troubled water. Nice.

765
00:41:49,260 --> 00:41:50,819
Speaker 3: When I read this in high school, I would have

766
00:41:50,860 --> 00:41:52,620
Speaker 3: had no idea what that was talking about.

767
00:41:54,050 --> 00:42:02,870
Speaker 2: Yeah, same. Oh, here's another quickie. Quinn writes in and says,

768
00:42:02,910 --> 00:42:05,009
Speaker 2: Hey guys, just a general question here regarding the Stuffed

769
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:07,069
Speaker 2: to Blow Your Mind logo, which to my eyes resembles

770
00:42:07,140 --> 00:42:10,620
Speaker 2: a stylized molecule. I wonder if it represents anything specific

771
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: or if it's just a cool design. Thanks, Quint.

772
00:42:14,460 --> 00:42:18,440
Speaker 3: My memory when we were coming up with logo options

773
00:42:18,580 --> 00:42:21,219
Speaker 3: is that it is not supposed to be a molecule

774
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:25,759
Speaker 3: in particular or anything concrete. I think the closest to

775
00:42:25,860 --> 00:42:29,210
Speaker 3: what it's supposed to represent is just like connections between ideas.

776
00:42:29,430 --> 00:42:33,490
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's supposed to represent connections. But that being said,

777
00:42:33,510 --> 00:42:36,730
Speaker 2: it's supposed to look a little bit like molecules, maybe,

778
00:42:36,770 --> 00:42:39,529
Speaker 2: you know, if that's in the DNA there somewhere. Maybe

779
00:42:39,550 --> 00:42:43,989
Speaker 2: it's supposed to look a little bit Jack Kirby. And

780
00:42:44,010 --> 00:42:49,310
Speaker 2: then it's hilarious, but multiple people have over time said

781
00:42:49,330 --> 00:42:51,009
Speaker 2: that when they look at it, they see Jake the

782
00:42:51,050 --> 00:42:54,660
Speaker 2: dog from Adventure Time, which was absolutely not our intent

783
00:42:54,739 --> 00:42:57,380
Speaker 2: as much as I love Adventure Time. But it's an

784
00:42:57,420 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 2: interpretation that I've never able to shake. So sometimes I'll

785
00:42:59,980 --> 00:43:02,980
Speaker 2: just look at our logo when I'm doing something, pulling

786
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,930
Speaker 2: up one of our social accounts, and I'll just have

787
00:43:05,969 --> 00:43:07,430
Speaker 2: that thought that it's like, oh, yeah, I guess it

788
00:43:07,469 --> 00:43:09,730
Speaker 2: does kind of look like Jake the dog.

789
00:43:09,850 --> 00:43:10,730
Speaker 3: I don't know Adventure Time.

790
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:13,040
Speaker 2: Oh, well, it's a great show. I recommend it to

791
00:43:13,620 --> 00:43:23,130
Speaker 2: anyone looking for a family-friendly, fantastic, but ultimately weird animated adventure.

792
00:43:23,170 --> 00:43:27,090
Speaker 2: This was a Cartoon Network show. It went for multiple,

793
00:43:27,110 --> 00:43:29,690
Speaker 2: multiple seasons, and I think there's still some spinoffs from

794
00:43:29,750 --> 00:43:34,590
Speaker 2: it occurring. But it's like a post-apocalyptic fantasy world of

795
00:43:34,710 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 2: magic and outdated technology. Uh, there's a, uh, there's a

796
00:43:40,260 --> 00:43:42,620
Speaker 2: Finn the human, there's Jake the dog, they're friends, they

797
00:43:42,660 --> 00:43:46,300
Speaker 2: go on adventures, lots of Dungeons and Dragons references, fantasy

798
00:43:46,340 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 2: and sci-fi references. Uh, I believe that the key creator

799
00:43:50,180 --> 00:43:53,779
Speaker 2: behind it was, is this guy Pendleton Ward. Uh, so it's, uh, yeah,

800
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,529
Speaker 2: it's worth checking out. Anyone out there who's not familiar

801
00:43:55,550 --> 00:43:59,210
Speaker 2: with it, I, I give it a, a firm recommendation. Cool.

802
00:43:59,390 --> 00:44:03,310
Speaker 2: But it is not connected to our logo in any way. Uh, okay.

803
00:44:03,330 --> 00:44:04,629
Speaker 3: Do you want to do a couple of these Weird

804
00:44:04,670 --> 00:44:05,610
Speaker 3: House Cinema messages?

805
00:44:06,150 --> 00:44:07,180
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do it.

806
00:44:08,090 --> 00:44:08,569
Speaker 3: Take your pick.

807
00:44:09,070 --> 00:44:13,410
Speaker 2: All right. Well, here's one that comes to us from Tom.

808
00:44:14,190 --> 00:44:18,060
Speaker 2: And this one's fitting because it concerns one of the

809
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:22,220
Speaker 2: most recent Rewind episodes of the show and ties into

810
00:44:22,340 --> 00:44:25,460
Speaker 2: Star Trek week, which is happening as we record this

811
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:35,450
Speaker 2: and will have just happened when this publishes. So Tom says, hi,

812
00:44:35,530 --> 00:44:38,129
Speaker 2: Rob and Joe. This is Tom from Canada. I heard

813
00:44:38,170 --> 00:44:40,719
Speaker 2: the rewind of your Wrath of Khan episode, and a

814
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,380
Speaker 2: few things came to mind. I'm almost certain that I

815
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 2: watched this at the theater back in the day, but

816
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:48,000
Speaker 2: my main memories around it have to do with the

817
00:44:48,100 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 2: overall public reaction to it. It seemed that Star Trek

818
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,910
Speaker 2: was back, and it seemed to mean a lot to

819
00:44:54,950 --> 00:44:57,150
Speaker 2: a lot of people. I was a young man and

820
00:44:57,190 --> 00:45:00,629
Speaker 2: never quite understood the almost cult-like relationship the fans had

821
00:45:00,690 --> 00:45:03,180
Speaker 2: with it, but I understand it now. And through the

822
00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:06,190
Speaker 2: endless iterations of the franchise at large, Star Trek holds

823
00:45:06,250 --> 00:45:10,049
Speaker 2: a place few other shows can approximate. As for the

824
00:45:10,150 --> 00:45:12,630
Speaker 2: quality of these iterations, one thing is clear to me.

825
00:45:12,910 --> 00:45:16,109
Speaker 2: When the writers and producers take it for granted that

826
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,980
Speaker 2: the associated name and any associated gimmicks are enough, the

827
00:45:20,020 --> 00:45:23,319
Speaker 2: show fails miserably. But it truly works when great storytelling

828
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 2: is the horse and outer space is just the cart. P.S.

829
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:29,910
Speaker 2: I contacted you guys a long time back pertaining to

830
00:45:30,050 --> 00:45:33,340
Speaker 2: Robot Monster. that movie permanently kicked me out of the

831
00:45:33,420 --> 00:45:35,969
Speaker 2: serious tree. You know, that tree that people live in

832
00:45:36,030 --> 00:45:39,230
Speaker 2: who love to tell other people about their quote-unquote refined

833
00:45:39,250 --> 00:45:43,890
Speaker 2: taste in film. Keep up the good work, Tom. Thank you, Tom.

834
00:45:44,070 --> 00:45:47,130
Speaker 3: You know, I'd say you can appreciate fine art in

835
00:45:47,150 --> 00:45:50,200
Speaker 3: cinema and Robot Monster. They're not mutually exclusive.

836
00:45:50,550 --> 00:45:53,540
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. I think it's best to go back and

837
00:45:53,580 --> 00:45:56,500
Speaker 2: forth between the two. But, I mean, yeah, this is,

838
00:45:56,860 --> 00:46:00,259
Speaker 2: I think, a great observation about Star Trek in general is, yeah, when...

839
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:03,020
Speaker 2: kind of goes for everything, right? I mean, when the

840
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:07,950
Speaker 2: storytelling is great, that just brings everything together. And if

841
00:46:08,260 --> 00:46:11,009
Speaker 2: the writing is maybe a little bit lazy and you're

842
00:46:11,030 --> 00:46:13,430
Speaker 2: taking it for granted, it's probably not going to be

843
00:46:13,530 --> 00:46:16,610
Speaker 2: as good. But Wrath of Khan is one of those

844
00:46:16,650 --> 00:46:18,310
Speaker 2: films where certainly everything lines up.

845
00:46:26,750 --> 00:46:30,770
Speaker 3: Okay, this next message is from Steven. Subject line, about

846
00:46:30,850 --> 00:46:35,190
Speaker 3: your gargoyles chat. Horror in the Helter Skelter era. I

847
00:46:35,310 --> 00:46:39,240
Speaker 3: think this is picking up on something we talked about

848
00:46:40,060 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 3: in the episode on the made-for-TV horror movie Gargoyles. Is

849
00:46:43,820 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 3: that a CBS movie or something?

850
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,779
Speaker 2: I don't remember the network offhand, but this was 72. Okay.

851
00:46:49,820 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 2: And in that episode, we discussed.

852
00:46:54,230 --> 00:46:56,760
Speaker 3: Had kind of a long chat at the beginning about

853
00:46:56,860 --> 00:47:00,339
Speaker 3: the history of made for TV movies and particularly made

854
00:47:00,380 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 3: for TV horror, where we talked about how obviously these

855
00:47:04,780 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 3: movies are not going to go as hard as, you know,

856
00:47:07,540 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 3: actual R rated theatrical horror, but they bring their own

857
00:47:11,340 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 3: kind of doomy weirdness that, you know, it can't be

858
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,859
Speaker 3: as dark in terms of explicit content, but often they

859
00:47:17,910 --> 00:47:22,330
Speaker 3: have a, just an off vibe that is actually unsettling

860
00:47:22,370 --> 00:47:25,540
Speaker 3: in its own way. And I think Stephen's picking up

861
00:47:25,620 --> 00:47:26,060
Speaker 3: on that.

862
00:47:27,219 --> 00:47:29,020
Speaker 2: Yeah, because we've covered at this point, I think at

863
00:47:29,060 --> 00:47:34,420
Speaker 2: least a couple of made-for-TV horror films from the 1970s.

864
00:47:34,489 --> 00:47:38,190
Speaker 2: And they have a unique energy. There's something in the

865
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:41,029
Speaker 2: cultural waters. I mean, there are various things in the

866
00:47:41,050 --> 00:47:43,630
Speaker 2: cultural waters, obviously, at the time. And you see that

867
00:47:43,690 --> 00:47:44,910
Speaker 2: reflected in the finished product.

868
00:47:46,140 --> 00:47:49,400
Speaker 3: Stephen says, Hey guys, I'm listening to your gargoyles chat

869
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 3: from a while back, and I can especially vibe on

870
00:47:51,660 --> 00:47:55,730
Speaker 3: your conversation about the bleak aura that pervaded TV horror

871
00:47:55,770 --> 00:47:59,330
Speaker 3: films from that era. I was born in 1958, so

872
00:47:59,370 --> 00:48:02,009
Speaker 3: I was a young teen and monster kid who was

873
00:48:02,050 --> 00:48:06,060
Speaker 3: watching many of these films from 1968 onward. There was

874
00:48:06,180 --> 00:48:10,319
Speaker 3: definitely an existential uneasiness present in TV horror movies in

875
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:13,980
Speaker 3: those days. While they could not present horror as graphically

876
00:48:14,100 --> 00:48:17,340
Speaker 3: as Night of the Living Dead or Texas Chainsaw Massacre

877
00:48:17,500 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 3: or The Exorcist or Rosemary's Baby, there were a lot

878
00:48:20,780 --> 00:48:23,400
Speaker 3: of writers and creators who were very clever at putting

879
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,259
Speaker 3: together tales of terror. And many of these tales were

880
00:48:26,320 --> 00:48:30,799
Speaker 3: quite horrific for their day and their network constraints. The

881
00:48:30,930 --> 00:48:34,109
Speaker 3: Dark Secret of Harvest Home, based on the book by

882
00:48:34,210 --> 00:48:38,590
Speaker 3: Tom Tryon. Is that the co-star of I Married a

883
00:48:38,610 --> 00:48:39,590
Speaker 3: Monster from Outer Space?

884
00:48:39,750 --> 00:48:42,469
Speaker 2: It is, yeah. I think we mentioned this at least

885
00:48:42,510 --> 00:48:44,969
Speaker 2: briefly when we were talking about his bio. Yeah, that

886
00:48:45,010 --> 00:48:48,010
Speaker 2: he got more and more into writing, wrote a novel,

887
00:48:48,110 --> 00:48:52,350
Speaker 2: and this was the TV adaptation of it. I don't

888
00:48:52,390 --> 00:48:55,150
Speaker 2: think he was creatively involved in it, but it is

889
00:48:55,190 --> 00:48:55,810
Speaker 2: based on his book.

890
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,069
Speaker 3: That's so funny. You don't usually think about that guy

891
00:49:00,090 --> 00:49:02,950
Speaker 3: who's like that handsome and is a very good actor

892
00:49:03,030 --> 00:49:05,090
Speaker 3: and just decided to transition to writing.

893
00:49:05,310 --> 00:49:08,010
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. But he did and did so quite successfully.

894
00:49:08,450 --> 00:49:12,149
Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, so The Dark Secret of Harvest Home, based

895
00:49:12,190 --> 00:49:15,049
Speaker 3: on the book by Tom Tryon, the original The Night

896
00:49:15,090 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 3: Stalker vampire TV movie, Richard Matheson again, the miniseries of

897
00:49:20,219 --> 00:49:23,460
Speaker 3: Salem's Lot by Stephen King. These were some of the best.

898
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,799
Speaker 3: If you're looking for more 70s TV horror films that

899
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 3: are weird and good, let me suggest Trilogy of Terror,

900
00:49:30,300 --> 00:49:33,700
Speaker 3: Don't Be Afraid of the Dark, Someone's Watching Me, Dark

901
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,180
Speaker 3: Knight of the Scarecrow. and, of course, Duel. Oh, I've

902
00:49:37,219 --> 00:49:39,950
Speaker 3: had Scarecrows on the brain recently. We might be talking

903
00:49:39,989 --> 00:49:41,270
Speaker 3: about them a bit this October.

904
00:49:41,610 --> 00:49:44,530
Speaker 2: I believe so. Trilogy of Terror, I was just chatting

905
00:49:44,570 --> 00:49:49,030
Speaker 2: about this with the gal who cuts my hair. We

906
00:49:49,330 --> 00:49:53,660
Speaker 2: were talking about October rewatches, and I asked her what

907
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,860
Speaker 2: she was looking forward to rewatch, and she said that

908
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 2: she always rewatches Trilogy of Terror. I do love this one.

909
00:49:59,180 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 2: This is the one based on Matheson's work again, but

910
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 2: it has the little... And I've never seen it myself,

911
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,880
Speaker 2: I have to admit. I've never sat down to watch it.

912
00:50:08,140 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 2: It's an anthology, so it has a few different segments.

913
00:50:10,940 --> 00:50:15,460
Speaker 2: But the most notable has a killer fetish doll that

914
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:19,940
Speaker 2: is running around on the floor. And I can't remember

915
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:23,300
Speaker 2: if it has a spear. Again, I haven't seen it myself.

916
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:27,830
Speaker 2: I'm just familiar with the promotional materials for it. But

917
00:50:28,250 --> 00:50:30,870
Speaker 2: a lot of people, I think, hold that one dear

918
00:50:30,930 --> 00:50:34,090
Speaker 2: because they had some sort of experience watching it on TV.

919
00:50:34,910 --> 00:50:37,590
Speaker 2: When they were a kid and it became part of

920
00:50:37,650 --> 00:50:39,470
Speaker 2: their horror fan DNA.

921
00:50:41,310 --> 00:50:43,820
Speaker 3: Stephen goes on to say, let me suggest a favorite,

922
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:48,160
Speaker 3: Moon of the Wolf, which has a wonderful southern charm

923
00:50:48,300 --> 00:50:51,760
Speaker 3: atmosphere and a host of freaky supporting character red herrings

924
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 3: as to who is the werewolf. Sounds good.

925
00:50:54,580 --> 00:50:57,060
Speaker 2: This one has a great bit of poster art with

926
00:50:57,100 --> 00:51:00,320
Speaker 2: a very unique looking werewolf. I've been tempted to check

927
00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 2: it out, and it is a New Orleans film. When

928
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 2: I was down at Future Shock Video in New Orleans,

929
00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 2: I was chatting with Eden, who owns it, and I

930
00:51:10,340 --> 00:51:12,420
Speaker 2: was asking her about this one. And she said it's

931
00:51:12,460 --> 00:51:14,330
Speaker 2: not one of her favorites, that she thought it was

932
00:51:14,550 --> 00:51:17,770
Speaker 2: a little dry. But I know other people obviously really

933
00:51:17,830 --> 00:51:19,650
Speaker 2: love it, so I should come back around to it

934
00:51:19,670 --> 00:51:20,080
Speaker 2: and check it out.

935
00:51:20,900 --> 00:51:25,969
Speaker 3: This is a tangent, but as somebody who loves New Orleans, please,

936
00:51:26,250 --> 00:51:29,669
Speaker 3: friends who listen, if you have a weird movie set

937
00:51:29,750 --> 00:51:33,029
Speaker 3: in New Orleans or New Orleans-related, please send that in.

938
00:51:33,050 --> 00:51:33,590
Speaker 3: I want that.

939
00:51:34,230 --> 00:51:36,009
Speaker 2: Mardi Gras Massacre it is, then.

940
00:51:36,050 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 3: Okay.

941
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,899
Speaker 2: Next weird house. Let's see.

942
00:51:39,940 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 3: I'm trying to think of one. I think Candyman 2

943
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:45,280
Speaker 3: is set in New Orleans.

944
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,400
Speaker 2: I think. Yeah, I think you're right. And I think.

945
00:51:49,840 --> 00:51:51,830
Speaker 3: Most of the blanking on others.

946
00:51:52,310 --> 00:51:54,190
Speaker 2: I guess it comes down, this goes with most settings,

947
00:51:54,250 --> 00:51:56,730
Speaker 2: but I'd say in general, three things need to happen

948
00:51:56,770 --> 00:52:00,049
Speaker 2: when you have a film that's filmed and set in

949
00:52:00,090 --> 00:52:02,230
Speaker 2: a place. It needs to actually be filmed there, it

950
00:52:02,270 --> 00:52:04,270
Speaker 2: needs to actually be set there, and then it needs

951
00:52:04,310 --> 00:52:06,710
Speaker 2: to feel like both of those things are true. And

952
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:09,060
Speaker 2: sometimes it's weird how those things don't line up. You

953
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:13,739
Speaker 2: can have a film that is, I don't know, taking

954
00:52:13,780 --> 00:52:15,840
Speaker 2: Atlanta for example, you have a film that's filmed in

955
00:52:15,900 --> 00:52:18,590
Speaker 2: Atlanta and even set here, but If things are a

956
00:52:18,610 --> 00:52:22,330
Speaker 2: little off, certainly as an Atlanta native, you can be like, oh, well,

957
00:52:22,489 --> 00:52:25,490
Speaker 2: that's not my city. That's some fairytale view of my city.

958
00:52:25,530 --> 00:52:29,510
Speaker 2: I don't know. Obviously, it's going to be different depending

959
00:52:29,610 --> 00:52:31,569
Speaker 2: on what your connection to a place is. If you're

960
00:52:31,590 --> 00:52:34,390
Speaker 2: a local, if you're a tourist, you just have a more,

961
00:52:34,530 --> 00:52:40,270
Speaker 2: certainly for more cinematically featured locations, if you're just familiar

962
00:52:40,290 --> 00:52:41,930
Speaker 2: with the movie version of that place.

963
00:52:42,450 --> 00:52:49,150
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, there's something about needing to capture... key outdoor

964
00:52:49,210 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 3: locations in the movie that are part of the texture

965
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 3: of living there that are not just like the main

966
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,700
Speaker 3: tourist hotspots yeah.

967
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,500
Speaker 2: Yeah so yeah i guess it's always there's always a

968
00:53:00,540 --> 00:53:01,200
Speaker 2: balance to it.

969
00:53:01,160 --> 00:53:05,220
Speaker 3: For sure anyway steven goes on to say there uh

970
00:53:05,260 --> 00:53:08,109
Speaker 3: there were many others like gargoyles that maybe were not

971
00:53:08,170 --> 00:53:11,009
Speaker 3: as fully realized or were flawed in some fashion but

972
00:53:11,030 --> 00:53:14,390
Speaker 3: they still had uh that helter skelter era tone of

973
00:53:14,469 --> 00:53:17,009
Speaker 3: dread that was part and parcel of being alive in

974
00:53:17,050 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 3: those days and Thanks for another of your many, many

975
00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:22,230
Speaker 3: awesome conversations, Steven.

976
00:53:22,750 --> 00:53:23,250
Speaker 2: P.S.

977
00:53:23,350 --> 00:53:27,390
Speaker 3: I watched Dark Shadows also, original TV run. The two

978
00:53:27,430 --> 00:53:30,109
Speaker 3: movies made from the series might be of interest to you,

979
00:53:30,310 --> 00:53:33,190
Speaker 3: House of Dark Shadows and Night of Dark Shadows. They

980
00:53:33,210 --> 00:53:36,690
Speaker 3: are definitely weird. Grayson Hall always swings for the fences

981
00:53:36,790 --> 00:53:39,580
Speaker 3: in her performances, and she was a major player in

982
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:41,920
Speaker 3: the movies and the TV show. You know, I don't

983
00:53:41,940 --> 00:53:43,260
Speaker 3: know anything about Dark Shadows.

984
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:47,390
Speaker 2: Oh, it's good. I never did a committed... viewing of

985
00:53:47,430 --> 00:53:49,420
Speaker 2: the episodes, but it was one of those shows that

986
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:52,180
Speaker 2: they would air on sci-fi channel when I was a kid.

987
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,779
Speaker 2: So it occasionally, I would occasionally catch it. And yeah,

988
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:59,879
Speaker 2: there's just this kind of weird, uh, like daytime television,

989
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:03,259
Speaker 2: Gothic horror, um, vibe to it. And that's, you know,

990
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:07,089
Speaker 2: it feels like a little like cheap and haunted in,

991
00:54:07,370 --> 00:54:09,629
Speaker 2: in a perfect way. Uh, it's, it's kind of hard

992
00:54:09,650 --> 00:54:14,790
Speaker 2: to really describe exactly how it feels, but, uh, it's unique.

993
00:54:14,810 --> 00:54:14,950
Speaker 3: Yeah.

994
00:54:15,010 --> 00:54:18,420
Speaker 2: Yeah. Barnabas Collins. Yeah. A lot of fun stuff. And

995
00:54:18,460 --> 00:54:21,580
Speaker 2: certainly all those like horror themed soap opera, um, narratives

996
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:23,780
Speaker 2: that they're playing with there. Okay. Yeah.

997
00:54:23,940 --> 00:54:26,580
Speaker 3: That's the way I always understood it was as vampire

998
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:28,299
Speaker 3: soap opera, but yeah.

999
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,049
Speaker 2: They got, they're werewolves and I think, you know, magic

1000
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:34,549
Speaker 2: users and so forth. So, you know, uh, they're going

1001
00:54:34,570 --> 00:54:35,970
Speaker 2: to pull in various elements.

1002
00:54:36,710 --> 00:54:38,810
Speaker 3: Okay. Does that need to do it for today's episode?

1003
00:54:38,830 --> 00:54:42,150
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that'll do it for today. Certainly anything

1004
00:54:42,210 --> 00:54:44,569
Speaker 2: that folks want to write in about that we discussed here,

1005
00:54:44,630 --> 00:54:49,600
Speaker 2: be it, um, dark shadows, or maybe even more dog

1006
00:54:49,660 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 2: days of summer talk. I don't know. I feel like

1007
00:54:51,219 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 2: we've probably run the course for all that. Hopefully, when

1008
00:54:55,140 --> 00:54:57,739
Speaker 2: next we do a Stuff to Blow Your Mind listener mail,

1009
00:54:58,219 --> 00:55:01,160
Speaker 2: we shall hopefully have a whole bunch of Halloween content

1010
00:55:01,180 --> 00:55:03,810
Speaker 2: to talk about, and we'll do our regular sort of

1011
00:55:04,630 --> 00:55:07,710
Speaker 2: Halloween hangover of Stuff to Blow Your Mind listener mail,

1012
00:55:07,730 --> 00:55:09,069
Speaker 2: where we'll catch up on all of that.

1013
00:55:09,510 --> 00:55:09,630
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

1014
00:55:10,110 --> 00:55:12,029
Speaker 2: In the meantime, we'll just remind everyone out there that

1015
00:55:12,110 --> 00:55:14,230
Speaker 2: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is primarily a science and

1016
00:55:14,250 --> 00:55:16,810
Speaker 2: culture podcast with core episodes on Tuesdays and Thursdays, short

1017
00:55:16,830 --> 00:55:19,230
Speaker 2: form on Wednesdays. And on Fridays, we set aside most

1018
00:55:19,270 --> 00:55:21,989
Speaker 2: serious concerns, just talk about a weird film on Weird

1019
00:55:22,010 --> 00:55:24,970
Speaker 2: House Cinema. And then every so often, we'll throw in

1020
00:55:24,989 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 2: a listener mail episode like this one to just, you know,

1021
00:55:28,560 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 2: run through things that you all have written in about.

1022
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:33,819
Speaker 2: As we've often mentioned, we don't have time to read

1023
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 2: everything on the air online. We don't have time to

1024
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:38,219
Speaker 2: respond to everything that you send in, but we do

1025
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:40,839
Speaker 2: read it when it comes in. So, you know, we

1026
00:55:40,860 --> 00:55:42,100
Speaker 2: greatly appreciate you writing it.

1027
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,960
Speaker 3: Totally. Your messages always mean a lot. So please keep

1028
00:55:45,980 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 3: them coming. Huge thanks, as always, to our excellent audio producer,

1029
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:54,580
Speaker 3: JJ Posway. If you would like to have a send

1030
00:55:54,620 --> 00:55:56,819
Speaker 3: a message to the show to maybe be featured on

1031
00:55:56,860 --> 00:56:00,450
Speaker 3: an episode like this in the future, you can email

1032
00:56:00,510 --> 00:56:04,170
Speaker 3: us at contact at stuff to blow your mind dot com.

1033
00:56:11,450 --> 00:56:13,890
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a production of iHeartRadio.

1034
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app. Apple

1035
00:56:17,620 --> 00:56:19,980
Speaker 1: Podcasts are wherever you listen to your favorite shows.