WEBVTT - S3:EP 4 - Predator and Prey 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:14.080 It's the truth way, Jesus Crassy Holy Way. 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.560 Life in River Road Fellowship was full of music, and 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:20.320 that's part of what Lindsay loved about. 0:00:20.120 --> 0:00:27.120 It, that it loved long a. 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:31.080 That's Gary news. 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.920 Now. They didn't have radios, and after the bonfire where 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.839 they burned their belongings, there weren't any records or CDs 0:00:46.960 --> 0:00:50.760 or cassettes from life before. So they made their own recordings, 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:53.200 wrote their own songs, and listened to their own music. 0:00:54.280 --> 0:00:56.320 It always seemed like the musicians were kind of put 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:58.520 on a pedestal too, you know, like it was just 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:02.360 something they worked closely with. They got to sing in 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:17.520 front of the church and help out a different functions 0:01:19.000 --> 0:01:20.800 with the music. A lot of times he said it 0:01:20.880 --> 0:01:23.959 was a battlefield and playing music for God is a 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:25.240 battle against spirits. 0:01:26.720 --> 0:01:29.560 Victor saw it as an actual war against evil and 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:31.480 that they had to do everything they could to stop 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:34.000 that evil. Their souls and the fate of the world 0:01:34.080 --> 0:01:39.040 were at stake. But over the coming years, for Lindsay, 0:01:39.280 --> 0:01:41.959 music wasn't just a battle against spirits, but a battle 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.960 within herself. Music was the realm where she worked out 0:01:45.000 --> 0:01:48.320 the competing forces insider the voices that screamed at her 0:01:48.360 --> 0:01:52.880 to get out or to stay, and Victor's voice was 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:53.800 always in her head. 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:58.120 Victor said that, you know, Lindsay is the old flesh 0:01:58.160 --> 0:01:59.880 and you need to become a new man in Christ. 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:35.600 Lindsay has to die. 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:23.320 From Rocco, Punch and die Heart podcasts. This is the 0:02:23.400 --> 0:02:27.360 Turning River Road, I America Lance and I'm Alan Lance 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:39.760 Lesser Part four, Predator and Pray on the Outside. Music 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:42.840 was part of Lindsay's role as a maiden. Victor dubbed 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.800 the Maidens the main music makers of River Road Fellowship, 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.840 replacing the adults who led it before, and Lindsay and 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.400 her friend Jess, the two youngest maidens, became the guitar 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:54.360 players of the group. 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.240 She and I were bonded from the beginning. 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:03.040 Brought them even closer. Their favorite thing to do was 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:05.000 to put fresh strings on their guitars together. 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:10.799 Oh, the new guitar sound, like the new strings sound. 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:14.600 We both loved it so much. 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:18.800 They go to a secluded spot the deck that jutted 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:22.560 off the chapel. Giant trees grew up through holes cut 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:23.880 in the middle of the deck. 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:29.440 So that wind would be blowing the trees would be swaying, 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:35.840 and you could almost feel the leaves moving. We wouldn't 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.360 pick a song. We would just start playing chords and 0:03:38.400 --> 0:03:41.320 it was like we were so in sync with one another. 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:46.200 Maybe we would start humming, making up a melody. I'd 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:50.480 like try to pick apart different notes while she would strum, 0:03:50.600 --> 0:03:54.560 and it felt like the rest of the camp wasn't there. 0:03:56.320 --> 0:04:00.119 The worries and the fear. It kind of just melted away. 0:04:00.720 --> 0:04:04.440 All the bad things and all the good things. None 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:11.400 of it mattered the weight I had to carry every 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.560 single day. I was able to take off, set it aside, 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:19.320 and just be myself with Jess, and I could sit 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:24.080 back and relax and breathe this moment of just feeling 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:31.920 safe and loved by her, like just a true sister 0:04:32.120 --> 0:04:37.080 and friend, not feeling judged or afraid. 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:38.680 Actual love. 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:43.919 Felt like we were the only two people in the 0:04:43.960 --> 0:04:45.200 world in that moment. 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:53.160 Sometimes having another maiden nearby, especially Jess, was the thing 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:56.920 that brought Lindsay the most happiness and comfort, but there 0:04:56.960 --> 0:04:59.520 was also a layer of regimented control and how she 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:03.320 interacts with the other maidens. Lindsay could never be alone. 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:06.520 They weren't allowed to be alone. The rule was that 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:09.160 anywhere the Maidens went, they went in two's. 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.560 Two people were always assigned to Victor. 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.880 Victor lived in what they called the Lodge, a big 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.800 log building at the center of the camp. He often 0:05:18.800 --> 0:05:20.080 met with his followers there. 0:05:19.960 --> 0:05:24.039 Too, and working for Victor was considered a privilege, like, 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.120 oh wow, you get to work at the lodge. And 0:05:27.200 --> 0:05:31.279 what that meant was you would clean the lodge. He 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:37.760 smoked all the time cigarettes, So run the air purifire 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:41.640 and clean up the ash trays and make the coffee. 0:05:42.200 --> 0:05:45.520 Get the shower ready for him, turn it on so 0:05:45.600 --> 0:05:48.960 it's nice and warm. Maybe hand him his towel while 0:05:48.960 --> 0:05:52.240 the other one was making breakfast, lay out his clothes. 0:05:53.200 --> 0:05:56.039 Remember having to put lotion on his legs after he'd 0:05:56.040 --> 0:06:00.760 get out of the shower, just like weird. That made 0:06:00.760 --> 0:06:03.200 me feel so uncomfortable. 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:03.280 Like. 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.480 There was one part of this job she dreaded the most. 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:13.520 You'd go wake him up in the morning, you'd physically 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:16.480 wake him up in the morning. And one thing about 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:20.640 Victor was he was a hard sleeper, I mean so 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:25.400 difficult to wake up. And it scared me because if 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:28.520 you kept letting him sleep, you know, you'd go in there. 0:06:28.560 --> 0:06:30.960 You pict her like it's time to wake up, good morning. 0:06:31.440 --> 0:06:34.520 He wouldn't wake up. You'd go back in. There were 0:06:34.560 --> 0:06:37.160 so many times where I couldn't get him to wake up. 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:39.560 It took me thirty minutes to wake him up. I 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.279 mean that sounds crazy, but it legit took me that. 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:46.039 Sometimes he'd wake up late, and then I'd get in 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:51.560 trouble for not being more aggressive. In my head too, 0:06:51.640 --> 0:06:54.080 he wasn't just a man, he was a man of God. 0:06:54.160 --> 0:06:58.040 He was pretty much Christ in the flesh. So even 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:04.160 little things like picking out his clothes was oh, very stressful. 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:25.680 The maidens were definitely idolized. 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.240 Even though Christa Leser Pitch, the girl whose books were 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:32.040 burned to please Victor, was around the same age as Lindsay, 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:34.720 she wasn't chosen to be a maiden. She was on 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:35.680 the outside looking in. 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:40.160 After they were moved to the Shepherd's camp into that 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:44.840 four plex and given the title of the Maidens and 0:07:44.920 --> 0:07:51.560 started serving Victor, they started to over time kind of 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:55.040 become the gold standard of how a young lady should 0:07:55.440 --> 0:08:00.200 behave and act and what she should aspire too. 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:04.680 These young girls were a tool. They often had an 0:08:04.680 --> 0:08:07.160 effect on how expectations were rolled out. 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:11.480 There were a lot of rules. 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:15.720 Women were required to wear their hair back and ponytails 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:20.280 or buns or something. And eventually we also weren't allowed 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:24.560 to have bangs because bangs Victor believed came from Egypt, 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:28.440 and Egypt was evil and Cleopatra and you know, they're 0:08:28.440 --> 0:08:36.560 all whores and this and that, so long hair. And 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.240 then it was shortly after that, you know, the maidens 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.480 had all moved to the camp. The women weren't allowed 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:45.400 to wear jeans anymore. We had to start making our 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:50.040 own clothes, dresses, very much prairie like dresses. 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.120 So what I'm picturing is kind of like little house 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:00.720 on the prairie FLDS type garb. 0:09:01.280 --> 0:09:08.120 Yeah, and the dresses or the making of clothes. A 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:11.000 big part of it was Victor wanted himself and he 0:09:11.080 --> 0:09:15.040 wanted the maidens to wear homemade clothes, specifically because a 0:09:15.120 --> 0:09:17.200 lot of clothes are made by you know, children in 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:21.200 sweatshops and other countries, and they might have devil spirits 0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:23.760 attached to them. That was another big thing, devil spirits, 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:28.760 evil spirits. And then the rest of the churches kind 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:32.040 of followed. It's like, you don't want to be the 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:37.319 weird one. Out who's still wearing jeans, and the styles 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.960 changed over time, like the way that the maiden's dress. 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:43.520 Those became kind. 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:49.439 Of like the basis of fashion. Essentially, you see one 0:09:49.440 --> 0:09:51.280 of the maidens wearing something and being like, oh, I 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:53.280 want that pattern. I wanted to wear that dress, and 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:55.880 so you'd go and you'd check out the pattern because 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:57.880 we had like a whole pattern library, and we would 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:01.640 go and get fabric from this fabric room and you'd 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:02.720 make it to fit you. 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:12.520 Yeah, the maidens often felt distant, untouchable, but then there 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:15.120 were times leadership would bring the maidens front and center. 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:17.600 One of them came to our house and basically told 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:20.559 me that this particular maiden was moving in with us. 0:10:21.280 --> 0:10:24.440 They probably asked, but it was never really a question. 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:28.160 It was always like a question with the expectation that 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:29.120 you were going to agree. 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:31.480 So a maiden showed up at Christa's door. 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:35.080 None of the maidens had very much stuff, so it was, 0:10:35.120 --> 0:10:40.000 you know, just a few boxes of personal belongings, clothes, toiletries, 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:44.079 you know, a few personal sentimental items, and she moved. 0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:47.240 In the way that the church worked, they got people 0:10:47.320 --> 0:10:50.240 unpacked very quickly. Everybody came over and just would unpack 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:52.960 a person or a family. Within a day, our house 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:57.240 would be set up, decorated, and ready to go. I 0:10:57.280 --> 0:11:00.480 remember leaving to go somewhere for a little bit, but 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.240 it was about six hours. Came back and they were 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:08.880 moving her out. And it's going to sound really paranoid, 0:11:08.920 --> 0:11:10.719 but I have a really good reason for saying it. 0:11:11.720 --> 0:11:14.120 I have a suspicion it was to spy on us 0:11:14.120 --> 0:11:18.520 and report back to leadership, because that was absolutely a 0:11:18.559 --> 0:11:21.480 thing that happened, and not just with my family, with 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:24.959 a lot of different families where they would move these 0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:32.079 young single people around with the intention of having eyes 0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:36.040 in these people's houses. And I know that because they 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:38.000 told me many many years later. 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.120 Jess, the youngest maiden with red hair, would later write 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:46.120 in her diary that she moved twenty two times in 0:11:46.240 --> 0:11:48.839 River Road. This kind of thing was normal, and not 0:11:48.960 --> 0:11:51.480 just for the maidens. It happened to Christa and her 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:52.160 family too. 0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:59.079 Victor would come to our house and be like, you're 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:03.360 moving to this location, regardless of whether or not we 0:12:03.400 --> 0:12:07.559 own the house, and we would be packed and moved 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:12.959 within twenty four hours, and life would up route and change. 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:17.520 It was very disruptive there were families who moved regularly, 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:22.000 like once every couple of months. Especially leadership. Leadership would 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:27.520 switch and move around a lot. When I say he 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:32.800 was building an army, I'd say he was forming a 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:37.280 group of individuals who would literally do whatever he wanted 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:42.720 them to do. And that's honestly terrifying. 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.800 Christa had a keen sense of who leadership valued, and 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.520 she could tell she wasn't in that group. It's not 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.280 that she wanted to be a maiden, but she noticed 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:15.800 she was never picked to work with them, something that 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:17.080 was considered an honor. 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.440 One time, my sister got to go help the maidens 0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:23.840 with something, and I remember sitting my sister down and 0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:27.920 being like, don't do anything that's going to cause them 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:32.679 to like not want you to come back, because I 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.280 was like, I don't know what I did, but I 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.320 did something and they don't want me there. 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.400 Christa really felt like an outsider. When her family was 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:45.719 moved yet another River Road property, it would be the 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:53.640 worst year of her life. This new location was overseen 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:57.080 by Jan and her husband. Neither of them responded to 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:01.240 her requests for comment, even though she'd known the couple 0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:05.200 her whole life. Christa found the husband intimidating. He was 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.079 quiet and tall and let Jane take the reins. 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:12.600 She was a very strong willed woman. She was very 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:17.640 much a leader. She was Victor's right hand. She was 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:21.240 whispering in his ear. She was counseling him. She was 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:25.240 the person that he bounced things off of. She was 0:14:25.240 --> 0:14:29.880 an extension of Victor. What she said was as good 0:14:29.960 --> 0:14:31.640 as if it came from the mouth of Victor. 0:14:34.360 --> 0:14:37.480 Christis ays Jan and her husband were almost militaristic in 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:41.040 how they ran the satellite property. When Christa's family was 0:14:41.080 --> 0:14:43.440 moved there, her dad got a lot of assignments at 0:14:43.520 --> 0:14:46.640 River Roads butcher's shop and cabinet shop, so he was 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:50.680 almost never home. Victor told Chris's mom that she should 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:53.960 do whatever Jan told her to do, and one thing 0:14:54.040 --> 0:14:59.480 Jan decided was that Christa could be better. Christa started 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:02.600 having date lee room checks to make sure she was organized. 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:06.000 Victor said, an organized stock drawer meant you were doing 0:15:06.040 --> 0:15:09.960 well with God. That did not come naturally to Christa, 0:15:10.880 --> 0:15:14.040 and when she didn't meet Jan's standards, she was punished 0:15:14.480 --> 0:15:15.640 or publicly shamed. 0:15:18.720 --> 0:15:21.440 I was never like a super skinny fit girl like 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:24.360 everybody else in my age group. I was a little 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:28.320 heavier than the other girls, maybe ten fifteen pounds, and 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.640 so I was heavily bullied, not by other kids, but 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:36.080 by adults about my weight. I was put on extremely 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:39.400 restrictive diets as early as the age of eleven years old. 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:47.920 Victor detested overweight women. He thought they were disgusting, and 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:51.680 that was one of the reasons that such an emphasis 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:55.160 was put on weight control. And any of the women 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.680 in the church who were a little heavier were consistently 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:04.280 being told to their weight. They took my morning animal 0:16:04.360 --> 0:16:05.920 care away from me so that I could get up 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:10.080 and exercise every day. So while everybody else was all 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:11.760 of my friends were out taking care of the animals, 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:16.520 I was walking back and forth on the road getting exercise. 0:16:17.800 --> 0:16:19.920 Krista was homeschold with a group of kids by a 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.040 mom a couple of houses down, and Jan made a 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.320 rule that she couldn't eat while she was there, even 0:16:26.360 --> 0:16:27.440 when the other girls did. 0:16:28.440 --> 0:16:30.680 I was put on a diet that was known as 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.360 the rotation diet, which is a calorie deficit program. I 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:37.720 was twelve years old and I was being fed as 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:40.960 little as six hundred calories a day. I was hungry. 0:16:41.720 --> 0:16:43.520 I started to think it was normal to go to 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:45.800 bed hungry. This is what it should feel like when 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:46.400 you go to bed. 0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:49.800 How'd you feel about her at the time when you 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:52.240 were being put on those extreme diets. 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:56.320 That is a really good question, because there is the 0:16:56.360 --> 0:17:00.200 way I actually felt, and there was the way I 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:04.200 was supposed to feel and tricked myself into believing I felt. 0:17:05.040 --> 0:17:11.919 How I actually felt was abused. I felt it was wrong. 0:17:13.600 --> 0:17:16.240 I felt that she had set the standard so high 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:23.919 that I was set up for failure, and I was terrified. 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:29.280 I was so scared of her and of the people 0:17:29.280 --> 0:17:35.240 who reported to her, because I was constantly doing something wrong. 0:17:38.200 --> 0:17:43.280 That must have been so hard to feel constantly sort 0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:45.760 of left out of the loop or rejected, and you 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:49.480 don't know quite why. It sounds to me like. 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:55.119 By categorizing people, raising certain people up to a higher position, 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:59.040 or creating a hierarchy, it both makes people feel special 0:17:59.480 --> 0:18:03.879 or makes people feel rejected, and then both types of 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.439 those reactions could pull people in further, because it's like, 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.040 if you feel accepted, you feel great about it, and 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.959 if you feel rejected, then you feel like, oh, I 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:14.119 need to prove myself. 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:17.080 Yeah, exactly, I need to do better I need to 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:20.480 try harder. I need to strengthen my walk with God. 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:23.159 I need to study the Bible more. I need to 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.119 be more active in fellowships. I need to You know, 0:18:26.640 --> 0:18:28.359 all of these things go through your head and then 0:18:28.400 --> 0:18:29.720 you do them and nothing changes. 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:41.920 My whole being. 0:18:43.359 --> 0:18:47.480 Felt like there was something about me that just wasn't 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:52.240 good enough, because that literally was how I was treated. 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.560 The mental gymnastics that I went through trying to figure 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:03.600 out why they didn't like me, especially when it was 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.040 people that I looked up to. It was something that 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:09.840 became a part of me, is believing there was just 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:14.080 something wrong with me and that I was not likable 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:21.800 or lovable by the people who mattered. That feeling of inferiority, 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:34.640 I don't think it will ever completely go away. 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:44.480 While Christa struggled as a kid looking up the social 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:48.399 ladder of River Road, on a different property at the camp, 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.320 Lindsay faced the pressures of being a maiden. Like Christa, 0:19:52.480 --> 0:19:55.840 she got criticized about her body, in this case directly 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:56.439 from Victor. 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:01.080 He thought I was getting too overweight. I think as 0:20:01.119 --> 0:20:05.159 I was developing into a young lady, I was getting 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:09.280 more curves and just naturally how my body is, but 0:20:09.400 --> 0:20:11.840 he said that I was gaining too much weight and 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.320 he wouldn't have sex with me at all until I 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:20.960 lost the weight, which to an outsider you might think, 0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:23.399 oh my gosh, you should have been so happy, But 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:27.640 for me, it felt like I was so ugly and 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:33.320 being so rejected. He had told me, you know, all 0:20:33.359 --> 0:20:36.600 those times, that him having sex with me was God's 0:20:36.760 --> 0:20:37.320 love for me. 0:20:38.560 --> 0:20:42.359 Lindsay's body was controlled in many ways, like around that 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.439 time when she was fifteen, she also started having some 0:20:45.480 --> 0:20:49.080 health problems, really bad headaches and trouble going to the bathroom. 0:20:49.720 --> 0:20:53.119 Then they started having me do something called the colon cleans. 0:20:53.320 --> 0:20:57.000 And their colon cleans, Lindsay couldn't eat regular food for 0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:01.320 seven days, only certain fluids in a combination of pills. 0:21:01.840 --> 0:21:05.760 I was so hungry and so weak because we still 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:08.200 had to keep our schedules, We had to be up, 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:10.919 we had to be working. I think I did the 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:15.120 cleanse like a total of maybe fourteen times. And when 0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:18.119 I think back on even like the physical aspect of 0:21:18.160 --> 0:21:20.960 what they had us due to our bodies, it's crazy. 0:21:24.640 --> 0:21:27.720 Victor had me try smoking at one point cigarettes to 0:21:27.760 --> 0:21:30.240 try to help me go to the bathroom. They one 0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:34.280 time chopped up garlic and put it on my stomach 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:37.000 with saran wrap, and then put a heating pad on top, 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:39.880 which made my stomach burn so bad. I had these 0:21:40.000 --> 0:21:43.920 huge blisters all over my tummy. It was so so painful. 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:49.639 It wasn't just like mind control. It was like so 0:21:49.760 --> 0:21:54.240 many things combined into this control and breaking you down 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:57.080 and hurting me even physically. 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:05.080 Lindsay was always under Victor's microscope. One time, she and 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:07.080 Jess were set to play at a church service for 0:22:07.119 --> 0:22:09.959 all one hundred and fifty members of River Road. So 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:12.520 the night before, Lindsay and Jess got together to do 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:17.359 their favorite thing, change their guitar strings. Victor was not 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:18.240 happy about this. 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:22.440 Victor told us that we did it to seek attention. 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:26.440 Because it was like in a public setting or something. 0:22:26.520 --> 0:22:28.639 Because we wanted everyone to hear that we had new 0:22:28.720 --> 0:22:33.879 strings on our guitars, and we should have waited, and 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:37.440 we did it because we wanted to draw attention to ourselves. 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:39.600 So you got in trouble for that. 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:47.520 Yeah, it's like crazy going back through even all these 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:50.960 little things that happened telling it now, like it's so 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:55.160 what one two sentence story, but just how much damage 0:22:55.200 --> 0:22:56.000 even that can do. 0:22:56.880 --> 0:22:59.600 It's like, it's not just that he was chastising you 0:22:59.600 --> 0:23:03.320 for a mistake, it's that he was saying, this mistake 0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:07.320 shows that you have bad character and you're not a 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:11.199 good believer, and there's something fundamentally wrong with you. 0:23:11.840 --> 0:23:16.680 Yeah. It made me I feel like question everything then, 0:23:16.920 --> 0:23:19.600 and made you so scared to do anything. 0:23:21.040 --> 0:23:24.480 Whenever she could, Lindsay disappeared to a quiet spot with 0:23:24.560 --> 0:23:27.880 her guitar. She tried to remember the songs she loved 0:23:27.880 --> 0:23:31.520 from her past for before any of this, like in 0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:34.879 The Little Mermaid when Ariel sings part of Your World. 0:23:35.760 --> 0:23:37.960 One of my favorite movies from growing up was The 0:23:38.000 --> 0:23:40.680 Worst of Oz and me and my pop would sing 0:23:40.800 --> 0:23:44.400 over the Rainbow, and I think a lot of those 0:23:44.440 --> 0:23:47.919 songs helped me through that time because I was feeling 0:23:47.960 --> 0:23:52.280 so alone. And it sounds maybe so silly to draw 0:23:52.320 --> 0:23:57.040 on Disney movies, you know, but all these people, all 0:23:57.040 --> 0:23:59.399 these girls you saw, were trapped and they had these 0:23:59.480 --> 0:24:08.920 songs of hope and longing and wishing. So there were 0:24:08.920 --> 0:24:10.760 times and I would try to figure some out on 0:24:10.800 --> 0:24:12.919 my guitar, and I couldn't do it in public with 0:24:12.960 --> 0:24:15.119 the rest of the Maidens, but when, like in my 0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:18.480 own quiet time, I'd try to figure some out and 0:24:18.720 --> 0:24:22.399 play some And there were so many times I remember 0:24:22.480 --> 0:24:26.240 laying on the couch the upstairs unit in the four plex, 0:24:26.280 --> 0:24:28.600 the one to the right, the couch in that unit, 0:24:28.760 --> 0:24:32.280 and just like dreaming, Gosh, what would it be if 0:24:32.320 --> 0:24:35.960 I somehow got a hold of my grandparents and I 0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:38.800 was able to move in with them and they'd help me, 0:24:38.840 --> 0:24:42.159 and I'd be able to go to college And just 0:24:42.320 --> 0:24:47.680 dreaming of stuff like that and just leave everything and 0:24:47.960 --> 0:24:49.240 have a whole new life. 0:24:49.080 --> 0:24:50.720 And get out of there. 0:24:51.200 --> 0:24:55.359 Yeah, I just I was dreaming that maybe one day 0:24:55.680 --> 0:25:00.760 it would happen. Some of those songs helped me stay 0:25:00.800 --> 0:25:05.080 strong and get through some of those times. If happy 0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:15.920 little bluebirds fly over the rainbow, why why can't I? 0:25:15.960 --> 0:25:18.920 There was one person Lindsay could be honest with, who 0:25:18.960 --> 0:25:22.800 she could tell all her daydreams of leaving Jess. 0:25:24.400 --> 0:25:27.800 I would say she was my best friend. And I 0:25:27.800 --> 0:25:33.000 mean we fought just probably like sisters do, but overall 0:25:33.480 --> 0:25:37.200 we were just thick as thieves and had talked about 0:25:37.880 --> 0:25:39.080 trying to run away together. 0:25:40.240 --> 0:25:43.639 Music was Jess and Lindsay's escape. But when Jess was 0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:47.680 thirteen and Lindsay was fourteen. They thought about escaping for real, 0:25:48.200 --> 0:25:51.919 getting out. They thought maybe they could commandeer the camp van. 0:25:52.560 --> 0:25:56.439 We talked about trying to drive it to Petrie's baiton 0:25:56.720 --> 0:26:01.320 tackle shop, the gas station in Finnliss. Then I remember 0:26:01.359 --> 0:26:03.800 us talking about even running through the woods at one 0:26:03.840 --> 0:26:07.040 point and just keep going. And for some reason, our 0:26:07.080 --> 0:26:08.760 destination was always Pea Trees. 0:26:14.320 --> 0:26:18.280 Their secret conversations gave shape to their wildest dreams. They 0:26:18.359 --> 0:26:21.119 talked it out, how would they get to pea Trees, 0:26:21.520 --> 0:26:24.240 when would they go? Once they got there, what would 0:26:24.240 --> 0:26:26.600 they do? Would they try to call someone? Would they 0:26:26.640 --> 0:26:29.879 ask for help? They considered all the potential pitfalls of 0:26:29.920 --> 0:26:33.639 their plan. They considered it in a real way, thinking 0:26:33.640 --> 0:26:36.160 out how they could navigate the logistics of being two 0:26:36.320 --> 0:26:45.720 kids running away from this isolated compound. But they always 0:26:45.720 --> 0:26:48.960 came to the same conclusion. They'd never driven on main 0:26:49.040 --> 0:26:51.720 roads before, they were too young for a license. 0:26:52.640 --> 0:26:54.400 And then who would believe us? You know, who would 0:26:54.400 --> 0:26:56.920 we even call? We didn't have any phone numbers of anyone. 0:26:58.119 --> 0:26:59.879 Jess brought up on time O, we don't even have 0:27:00.440 --> 0:27:05.440 any identification on us, And I remember saying, yeah, they'll 0:27:05.440 --> 0:27:08.199 probably just end up calling her parents, and we'd kind 0:27:08.240 --> 0:27:10.800 of just look at each other and shrug our shoulders 0:27:10.840 --> 0:27:13.439