1 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: It's the truth way, Jesus Crassy Holy Way. 2 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 2: Life in River Road Fellowship was full of music, and 3 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 2: that's part of what Lindsay loved about. 4 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 3: It, that it loved long a. 5 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: That's Gary news. 6 00:00:40,760 --> 00:00:43,920 Speaker 2: Now. They didn't have radios, and after the bonfire where 7 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 2: they burned their belongings, there weren't any records or CDs 8 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 2: or cassettes from life before. So they made their own recordings, 9 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 2: wrote their own songs, and listened to their own music. 10 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,320 Speaker 4: It always seemed like the musicians were kind of put 11 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 4: on a pedestal too, you know, like it was just 12 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 4: something they worked closely with. They got to sing in 13 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 4: front of the church and help out a different functions 14 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 4: with the music. A lot of times he said it 15 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,959 Speaker 4: was a battlefield and playing music for God is a 16 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,240 Speaker 4: battle against spirits. 17 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 2: Victor saw it as an actual war against evil and 18 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 2: that they had to do everything they could to stop 19 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 2: that evil. Their souls and the fate of the world 20 00:01:34,080 --> 00:01:39,040 Speaker 2: were at stake. But over the coming years, for Lindsay, 21 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 2: music wasn't just a battle against spirits, but a battle 22 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,960 Speaker 2: within herself. Music was the realm where she worked out 23 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 2: the competing forces insider the voices that screamed at her 24 00:01:48,360 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 2: to get out or to stay, and Victor's voice was 25 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 2: always in her head. 26 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 4: Victor said that, you know, Lindsay is the old flesh 27 00:01:58,160 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 4: and you need to become a new man in Christ. 28 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 4: Lindsay has to die. 29 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 2: From Rocco, Punch and die Heart podcasts. This is the 30 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 2: Turning River Road, I America Lance and I'm Alan Lance 31 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: Lesser Part four, Predator and Pray on the Outside. Music 32 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 2: was part of Lindsay's role as a maiden. Victor dubbed 33 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 2: the Maidens the main music makers of River Road Fellowship, 34 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 2: replacing the adults who led it before, and Lindsay and 35 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 2: her friend Jess, the two youngest maidens, became the guitar 36 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 2: players of the group. 37 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 4: She and I were bonded from the beginning. 38 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: Brought them even closer. Their favorite thing to do was 39 00:03:03,080 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 2: to put fresh strings on their guitars together. 40 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:10,799 Speaker 4: Oh, the new guitar sound, like the new strings sound. 41 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 4: We both loved it so much. 42 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 2: They go to a secluded spot the deck that jutted 43 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 2: off the chapel. Giant trees grew up through holes cut 44 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: in the middle of the deck. 45 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 4: So that wind would be blowing the trees would be swaying, 46 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 4: and you could almost feel the leaves moving. We wouldn't 47 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:38,360 Speaker 4: pick a song. We would just start playing chords and 48 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 4: it was like we were so in sync with one another. 49 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 4: Maybe we would start humming, making up a melody. I'd 50 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 4: like try to pick apart different notes while she would strum, 51 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 4: and it felt like the rest of the camp wasn't there. 52 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,119 Speaker 4: The worries and the fear. It kind of just melted away. 53 00:04:00,720 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 4: All the bad things and all the good things. None 54 00:04:04,480 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 4: of it mattered the weight I had to carry every 55 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 4: single day. I was able to take off, set it aside, 56 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 4: and just be myself with Jess, and I could sit 57 00:04:19,400 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 4: back and relax and breathe this moment of just feeling 58 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:31,920 Speaker 4: safe and loved by her, like just a true sister 59 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 4: and friend, not feeling judged or afraid. 60 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:38,680 Speaker 2: Actual love. 61 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:43,919 Speaker 4: Felt like we were the only two people in the 62 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 4: world in that moment. 63 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 2: Sometimes having another maiden nearby, especially Jess, was the thing 64 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 2: that brought Lindsay the most happiness and comfort, but there 65 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 2: was also a layer of regimented control and how she 66 00:04:59,560 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 2: interacts with the other maidens. Lindsay could never be alone. 67 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 2: They weren't allowed to be alone. The rule was that 68 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:09,160 Speaker 2: anywhere the Maidens went, they went in two's. 69 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 4: Two people were always assigned to Victor. 70 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 2: Victor lived in what they called the Lodge, a big 71 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 2: log building at the center of the camp. He often 72 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: met with his followers there. 73 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 4: Too, and working for Victor was considered a privilege, like, 74 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 4: oh wow, you get to work at the lodge. And 75 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 4: what that meant was you would clean the lodge. He 76 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 4: smoked all the time cigarettes, So run the air purifire 77 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 4: and clean up the ash trays and make the coffee. 78 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 4: Get the shower ready for him, turn it on so 79 00:05:45,600 --> 00:05:48,960 Speaker 4: it's nice and warm. Maybe hand him his towel while 80 00:05:48,960 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 4: the other one was making breakfast, lay out his clothes. 81 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 4: Remember having to put lotion on his legs after he'd 82 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:00,760 Speaker 4: get out of the shower, just like weird. That made 83 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 4: me feel so uncomfortable. 84 00:06:03,120 --> 00:06:03,280 Speaker 1: Like. 85 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,480 Speaker 2: There was one part of this job she dreaded the most. 86 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 4: You'd go wake him up in the morning, you'd physically 87 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 4: wake him up in the morning. And one thing about 88 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 4: Victor was he was a hard sleeper, I mean so 89 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:25,400 Speaker 4: difficult to wake up. And it scared me because if 90 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 4: you kept letting him sleep, you know, you'd go in there. 91 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 4: You pict her like it's time to wake up, good morning. 92 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 4: He wouldn't wake up. You'd go back in. There were 93 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 4: so many times where I couldn't get him to wake up. 94 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,560 Speaker 4: It took me thirty minutes to wake him up. I 95 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 4: mean that sounds crazy, but it legit took me that. 96 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 4: Sometimes he'd wake up late, and then I'd get in 97 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 4: trouble for not being more aggressive. In my head too, 98 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 4: he wasn't just a man, he was a man of God. 99 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 4: He was pretty much Christ in the flesh. So even 100 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 4: little things like picking out his clothes was oh, very stressful. 101 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 4: The maidens were definitely idolized. 102 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,240 Speaker 3: Even though Christa Leser Pitch, the girl whose books were 103 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 3: burned to please Victor, was around the same age as Lindsay, 104 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 3: she wasn't chosen to be a maiden. She was on 105 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 3: the outside looking in. 106 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:40,160 Speaker 5: After they were moved to the Shepherd's camp into that 107 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 5: four plex and given the title of the Maidens and 108 00:07:44,920 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 5: started serving Victor, they started to over time kind of 109 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 5: become the gold standard of how a young lady should 110 00:07:55,440 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 5: behave and act and what she should aspire too. 111 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 3: These young girls were a tool. They often had an 112 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 3: effect on how expectations were rolled out. 113 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 4: There were a lot of rules. 114 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 5: Women were required to wear their hair back and ponytails 115 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 5: or buns or something. And eventually we also weren't allowed 116 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 5: to have bangs because bangs Victor believed came from Egypt, 117 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 5: and Egypt was evil and Cleopatra and you know, they're 118 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:36,560 Speaker 5: all whores and this and that, so long hair. And 119 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 5: then it was shortly after that, you know, the maidens 120 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 5: had all moved to the camp. The women weren't allowed 121 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 5: to wear jeans anymore. We had to start making our 122 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 5: own clothes, dresses, very much prairie like dresses. 123 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 6: So what I'm picturing is kind of like little house 124 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 6: on the prairie FLDS type garb. 125 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 5: Yeah, and the dresses or the making of clothes. A 126 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 5: big part of it was Victor wanted himself and he 127 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 5: wanted the maidens to wear homemade clothes, specifically because a 128 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,200 Speaker 5: lot of clothes are made by you know, children in 129 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 5: sweatshops and other countries, and they might have devil spirits 130 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 5: attached to them. That was another big thing, devil spirits, 131 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 5: evil spirits. And then the rest of the churches kind 132 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 5: of followed. It's like, you don't want to be the 133 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:37,319 Speaker 5: weird one. Out who's still wearing jeans, and the styles 134 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 5: changed over time, like the way that the maiden's dress. 135 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 4: Those became kind. 136 00:09:43,280 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 5: Of like the basis of fashion. Essentially, you see one 137 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 5: of the maidens wearing something and being like, oh, I 138 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 5: want that pattern. I wanted to wear that dress, and 139 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 5: so you'd go and you'd check out the pattern because 140 00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 5: we had like a whole pattern library, and we would 141 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 5: go and get fabric from this fabric room and you'd 142 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 5: make it to fit you. 143 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, the maidens often felt distant, untouchable, but then there 144 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 3: were times leadership would bring the maidens front and center. 145 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 5: One of them came to our house and basically told 146 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 5: me that this particular maiden was moving in with us. 147 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,440 Speaker 5: They probably asked, but it was never really a question. 148 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 5: It was always like a question with the expectation that 149 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 5: you were going to agree. 150 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 3: So a maiden showed up at Christa's door. 151 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 5: None of the maidens had very much stuff, so it was, 152 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 5: you know, just a few boxes of personal belongings, clothes, toiletries, 153 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 5: you know, a few personal sentimental items, and she moved. 154 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 5: In the way that the church worked, they got people 155 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 5: unpacked very quickly. Everybody came over and just would unpack 156 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:52,960 Speaker 5: a person or a family. Within a day, our house 157 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 5: would be set up, decorated, and ready to go. I 158 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 5: remember leaving to go somewhere for a little bit, but 159 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 5: it was about six hours. Came back and they were 160 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 5: moving her out. And it's going to sound really paranoid, 161 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:10,719 Speaker 5: but I have a really good reason for saying it. 162 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,120 Speaker 5: I have a suspicion it was to spy on us 163 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:18,520 Speaker 5: and report back to leadership, because that was absolutely a 164 00:11:18,559 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 5: thing that happened, and not just with my family, with 165 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,959 Speaker 5: a lot of different families where they would move these 166 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 5: young single people around with the intention of having eyes 167 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 5: in these people's houses. And I know that because they 168 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:38,000 Speaker 5: told me many many years later. 169 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 3: Jess, the youngest maiden with red hair, would later write 170 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 3: in her diary that she moved twenty two times in 171 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:48,839 Speaker 3: River Road. This kind of thing was normal, and not 172 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 3: just for the maidens. It happened to Christa and her 173 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:52,160 Speaker 3: family too. 174 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 5: Victor would come to our house and be like, you're 175 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 5: moving to this location, regardless of whether or not we 176 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,559 Speaker 5: own the house, and we would be packed and moved 177 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 5: within twenty four hours, and life would up route and change. 178 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 5: It was very disruptive there were families who moved regularly, 179 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:22,000 Speaker 5: like once every couple of months. Especially leadership. Leadership would 180 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 5: switch and move around a lot. When I say he 181 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:32,800 Speaker 5: was building an army, I'd say he was forming a 182 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 5: group of individuals who would literally do whatever he wanted 183 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 5: them to do. And that's honestly terrifying. 184 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,800 Speaker 3: Christa had a keen sense of who leadership valued, and 185 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 3: she could tell she wasn't in that group. It's not 186 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 3: that she wanted to be a maiden, but she noticed 187 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,800 Speaker 3: she was never picked to work with them, something that 188 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 3: was considered an honor. 189 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:21,440 Speaker 5: One time, my sister got to go help the maidens 190 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 5: with something, and I remember sitting my sister down and 191 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 5: being like, don't do anything that's going to cause them 192 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 5: to like not want you to come back, because I 193 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,280 Speaker 5: was like, I don't know what I did, but I 194 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 5: did something and they don't want me there. 195 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:41,400 Speaker 3: Christa really felt like an outsider. When her family was 196 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,719 Speaker 3: moved yet another River Road property, it would be the 197 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:53,640 Speaker 3: worst year of her life. This new location was overseen 198 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 3: by Jan and her husband. Neither of them responded to 199 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 3: her requests for comment, even though she'd known the couple 200 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:05,200 Speaker 3: her whole life. Christa found the husband intimidating. He was 201 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,079 Speaker 3: quiet and tall and let Jane take the reins. 202 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 5: She was a very strong willed woman. She was very 203 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 5: much a leader. She was Victor's right hand. She was 204 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 5: whispering in his ear. She was counseling him. She was 205 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:25,240 Speaker 5: the person that he bounced things off of. She was 206 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 5: an extension of Victor. What she said was as good 207 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:31,640 Speaker 5: as if it came from the mouth of Victor. 208 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 3: Christis ays Jan and her husband were almost militaristic in 209 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 3: how they ran the satellite property. When Christa's family was 210 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 3: moved there, her dad got a lot of assignments at 211 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 3: River Roads butcher's shop and cabinet shop, so he was 212 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 3: almost never home. Victor told Chris's mom that she should 213 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 3: do whatever Jan told her to do, and one thing 214 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 3: Jan decided was that Christa could be better. Christa started 215 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:02,600 Speaker 3: having date lee room checks to make sure she was organized. 216 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 3: Victor said, an organized stock drawer meant you were doing 217 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,960 Speaker 3: well with God. That did not come naturally to Christa, 218 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 3: and when she didn't meet Jan's standards, she was punished 219 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 3: or publicly shamed. 220 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 5: I was never like a super skinny fit girl like 221 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 5: everybody else in my age group. I was a little 222 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 5: heavier than the other girls, maybe ten fifteen pounds, and 223 00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 5: so I was heavily bullied, not by other kids, but 224 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:36,080 Speaker 5: by adults about my weight. I was put on extremely 225 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 5: restrictive diets as early as the age of eleven years old. 226 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 5: Victor detested overweight women. He thought they were disgusting, and 227 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 5: that was one of the reasons that such an emphasis 228 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 5: was put on weight control. And any of the women 229 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 5: in the church who were a little heavier were consistently 230 00:15:59,360 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 5: being told to their weight. They took my morning animal 231 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 5: care away from me so that I could get up 232 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 5: and exercise every day. So while everybody else was all 233 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 5: of my friends were out taking care of the animals, 234 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 5: I was walking back and forth on the road getting exercise. 235 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 3: Krista was homeschold with a group of kids by a 236 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 3: mom a couple of houses down, and Jan made a 237 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,320 Speaker 3: rule that she couldn't eat while she was there, even 238 00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 3: when the other girls did. 239 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,680 Speaker 5: I was put on a diet that was known as 240 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 5: the rotation diet, which is a calorie deficit program. I 241 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,720 Speaker 5: was twelve years old and I was being fed as 242 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:40,960 Speaker 5: little as six hundred calories a day. I was hungry. 243 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 5: I started to think it was normal to go to 244 00:16:43,560 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 5: bed hungry. This is what it should feel like when 245 00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 5: you go to bed. 246 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 3: How'd you feel about her at the time when you 247 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 3: were being put on those extreme diets. 248 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 5: That is a really good question, because there is the 249 00:16:56,360 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 5: way I actually felt, and there was the way I 250 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 5: was supposed to feel and tricked myself into believing I felt. 251 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:11,919 Speaker 5: How I actually felt was abused. I felt it was wrong. 252 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 5: I felt that she had set the standard so high 253 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:23,919 Speaker 5: that I was set up for failure, and I was terrified. 254 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 5: I was so scared of her and of the people 255 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 5: who reported to her, because I was constantly doing something wrong. 256 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:43,280 Speaker 3: That must have been so hard to feel constantly sort 257 00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 3: of left out of the loop or rejected, and you 258 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 3: don't know quite why. It sounds to me like. 259 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:55,119 Speaker 6: By categorizing people, raising certain people up to a higher position, 260 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,040 Speaker 6: or creating a hierarchy, it both makes people feel special 261 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 6: or makes people feel rejected, and then both types of 262 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,439 Speaker 6: those reactions could pull people in further, because it's like, 263 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 6: if you feel accepted, you feel great about it, and 264 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,959 Speaker 6: if you feel rejected, then you feel like, oh, I 265 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 6: need to prove myself. 266 00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, exactly, I need to do better I need to 267 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 5: try harder. I need to strengthen my walk with God. 268 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,159 Speaker 5: I need to study the Bible more. I need to 269 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,119 Speaker 5: be more active in fellowships. I need to You know, 270 00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 5: all of these things go through your head and then 271 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 5: you do them and nothing changes. 272 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 4: My whole being. 273 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,480 Speaker 5: Felt like there was something about me that just wasn't 274 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 5: good enough, because that literally was how I was treated. 275 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 5: The mental gymnastics that I went through trying to figure 276 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,600 Speaker 5: out why they didn't like me, especially when it was 277 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 5: people that I looked up to. It was something that 278 00:19:07,280 --> 00:19:09,840 Speaker 5: became a part of me, is believing there was just 279 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 5: something wrong with me and that I was not likable 280 00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 5: or lovable by the people who mattered. That feeling of inferiority, 281 00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:34,640 Speaker 5: I don't think it will ever completely go away. 282 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,480 Speaker 2: While Christa struggled as a kid looking up the social 283 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 2: ladder of River Road, on a different property at the camp, 284 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 2: Lindsay faced the pressures of being a maiden. Like Christa, 285 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:55,840 Speaker 2: she got criticized about her body, in this case directly 286 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:56,439 Speaker 2: from Victor. 287 00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 4: He thought I was getting too overweight. I think as 288 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 4: I was developing into a young lady, I was getting 289 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 4: more curves and just naturally how my body is, but 290 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 4: he said that I was gaining too much weight and 291 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 4: he wouldn't have sex with me at all until I 292 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 4: lost the weight, which to an outsider you might think, 293 00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,399 Speaker 4: oh my gosh, you should have been so happy, But 294 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 4: for me, it felt like I was so ugly and 295 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 4: being so rejected. He had told me, you know, all 296 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 4: those times, that him having sex with me was God's 297 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 4: love for me. 298 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:42,359 Speaker 2: Lindsay's body was controlled in many ways, like around that 299 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 2: time when she was fifteen, she also started having some 300 00:20:45,480 --> 00:20:49,080 Speaker 2: health problems, really bad headaches and trouble going to the bathroom. 301 00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,119 Speaker 4: Then they started having me do something called the colon cleans. 302 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 2: And their colon cleans, Lindsay couldn't eat regular food for 303 00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 2: seven days, only certain fluids in a combination of pills. 304 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 4: I was so hungry and so weak because we still 305 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 4: had to keep our schedules, We had to be up, 306 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:10,919 Speaker 4: we had to be working. I think I did the 307 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:15,120 Speaker 4: cleanse like a total of maybe fourteen times. And when 308 00:21:15,119 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 4: I think back on even like the physical aspect of 309 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,960 Speaker 4: what they had us due to our bodies, it's crazy. 310 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 4: Victor had me try smoking at one point cigarettes to 311 00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 4: try to help me go to the bathroom. They one 312 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 4: time chopped up garlic and put it on my stomach 313 00:21:34,680 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 4: with saran wrap, and then put a heating pad on top, 314 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 4: which made my stomach burn so bad. I had these 315 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 4: huge blisters all over my tummy. It was so so painful. 316 00:21:45,359 --> 00:21:49,639 Speaker 4: It wasn't just like mind control. It was like so 317 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 4: many things combined into this control and breaking you down 318 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 4: and hurting me even physically. 319 00:22:01,400 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 2: Lindsay was always under Victor's microscope. One time, she and 320 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,080 Speaker 2: Jess were set to play at a church service for 321 00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:09,959 Speaker 2: all one hundred and fifty members of River Road. So 322 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:12,520 Speaker 2: the night before, Lindsay and Jess got together to do 323 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:17,359 Speaker 2: their favorite thing, change their guitar strings. Victor was not 324 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 2: happy about this. 325 00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,440 Speaker 4: Victor told us that we did it to seek attention. 326 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 2: Because it was like in a public setting or something. 327 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:28,639 Speaker 4: Because we wanted everyone to hear that we had new 328 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:33,879 Speaker 4: strings on our guitars, and we should have waited, and 329 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 4: we did it because we wanted to draw attention to ourselves. 330 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 3: So you got in trouble for that. 331 00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like crazy going back through even all these 332 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 4: little things that happened telling it now, like it's so 333 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 4: what one two sentence story, but just how much damage 334 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 4: even that can do. 335 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,600 Speaker 2: It's like, it's not just that he was chastising you 336 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:03,320 Speaker 2: for a mistake, it's that he was saying, this mistake 337 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 2: shows that you have bad character and you're not a 338 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 2: good believer, and there's something fundamentally wrong with you. 339 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 4: Yeah. It made me I feel like question everything then, 340 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 4: and made you so scared to do anything. 341 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,480 Speaker 2: Whenever she could, Lindsay disappeared to a quiet spot with 342 00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:27,880 Speaker 2: her guitar. She tried to remember the songs she loved 343 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 2: from her past for before any of this, like in 344 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 2: The Little Mermaid when Ariel sings part of Your World. 345 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 4: One of my favorite movies from growing up was The 346 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 4: Worst of Oz and me and my pop would sing 347 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,400 Speaker 4: over the Rainbow, and I think a lot of those 348 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,919 Speaker 4: songs helped me through that time because I was feeling 349 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 4: so alone. And it sounds maybe so silly to draw 350 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:57,040 Speaker 4: on Disney movies, you know, but all these people, all 351 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 4: these girls you saw, were trapped and they had these 352 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 4: songs of hope and longing and wishing. So there were 353 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 4: times and I would try to figure some out on 354 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,919 Speaker 4: my guitar, and I couldn't do it in public with 355 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 4: the rest of the Maidens, but when, like in my 356 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 4: own quiet time, I'd try to figure some out and 357 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 4: play some And there were so many times I remember 358 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 4: laying on the couch the upstairs unit in the four plex, 359 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 4: the one to the right, the couch in that unit, 360 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 4: and just like dreaming, Gosh, what would it be if 361 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 4: I somehow got a hold of my grandparents and I 362 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 4: was able to move in with them and they'd help me, 363 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 4: and I'd be able to go to college And just 364 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 4: dreaming of stuff like that and just leave everything and 365 00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 4: have a whole new life. 366 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 2: And get out of there. 367 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, I just I was dreaming that maybe one day 368 00:24:55,680 --> 00:25:00,760 Speaker 4: it would happen. Some of those songs helped me stay 369 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 4: strong and get through some of those times. If happy 370 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 4: little bluebirds fly over the rainbow, why why can't I? 371 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 2: There was one person Lindsay could be honest with, who 372 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,800 Speaker 2: she could tell all her daydreams of leaving Jess. 373 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,800 Speaker 4: I would say she was my best friend. And I 374 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 4: mean we fought just probably like sisters do, but overall 375 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:37,200 Speaker 4: we were just thick as thieves and had talked about 376 00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 4: trying to run away together. 377 00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 2: Music was Jess and Lindsay's escape. But when Jess was 378 00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,680 Speaker 2: thirteen and Lindsay was fourteen. They thought about escaping for real, 379 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 2: getting out. They thought maybe they could commandeer the camp van. 380 00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 4: We talked about trying to drive it to Petrie's baiton 381 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 4: tackle shop, the gas station in Finnliss. Then I remember 382 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:03,800 Speaker 4: us talking about even running through the woods at one 383 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,040 Speaker 4: point and just keep going. And for some reason, our 384 00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 4: destination was always Pea Trees. 385 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 2: Their secret conversations gave shape to their wildest dreams. They 386 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,119 Speaker 2: talked it out, how would they get to pea Trees, 387 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 2: when would they go? Once they got there, what would 388 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,600 Speaker 2: they do? Would they try to call someone? Would they 389 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,879 Speaker 2: ask for help? They considered all the potential pitfalls of 390 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 2: their plan. They considered it in a real way, thinking 391 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 2: out how they could navigate the logistics of being two 392 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 2: kids running away from this isolated compound. But they always 393 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,960 Speaker 2: came to the same conclusion. They'd never driven on main 394 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:51,720 Speaker 2: roads before, they were too young for a license. 395 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 4: And then who would believe us? You know, who would 396 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,920 Speaker 4: we even call? We didn't have any phone numbers of anyone. 397 00:26:58,119 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 4: Jess brought up on time O, we don't even have 398 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:05,440 Speaker 4: any identification on us, And I remember saying, yeah, they'll 399 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 4: probably just end up calling her parents, and we'd kind 400 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,800 Speaker 4: of just look at each other and shrug our shoulders 401 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:13,439 Speaker 4: and be like, Okay, well, I guess this is it 402 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 4: for now. Kind of felt like you were stuck with 403 00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 4: no other options. 404 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,280 Speaker 2: So she kept to her regular life. She went to 405 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 2: their fellowships, listened to teachings from Victor, and then sometimes 406 00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 2: she'd spend time alone with Victor at night, and that 407 00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,520 Speaker 2: gave Lindsay an idea. Maybe their sneak out could be 408 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 2: more subtle. She knew that Victor had the Maidens use 409 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,480 Speaker 2: a type of birth control, a spermicide, when they were 410 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 2: with him, so one night she thought, what if I 411 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,960 Speaker 2: use it wrong? If all went to plan, she could 412 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 2: get pregnant and use that to save herself. If she 413 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,160 Speaker 2: were pregnant, then she'd have to go to the hospital 414 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 2: and then someone there could help her. This was her 415 00:27:55,480 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 2: chance to get out. She was only fourteen, but at 416 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 2: that point, to Lindsay, even being pregnant at fourteen seemed 417 00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 2: better than staying where she was. So that night, at 418 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:13,360 Speaker 2: Victor's lodge, she faked her application, did it just halfway, 419 00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:18,640 Speaker 2: but almost immediately Victor noticed and corrected her. She had 420 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 2: to do what he said her plan wasn't going to work. Eventually, 421 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,720 Speaker 2: Victor got a vasectomy, so it wouldn't be an issue anymore. 422 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 2: Lindsay would never become pregnant from Victor. Another escape plan lost. 423 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 3: Victor wanted to know everything about the Maidens, all of 424 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 3: their sins, even from years ago. He was constantly wanting 425 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 3: them to confess things, especially when he got angry. One day, 426 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:18,040 Speaker 3: Victor ordered the maidens to stay in Alamoth together and confess. 427 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:22,440 Speaker 3: They couldn't leave. Victor wasn't even there, but they did 428 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,719 Speaker 3: as they were told. For three days, the maidens sat alone, 429 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:28,240 Speaker 3: confessing to each other. 430 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,320 Speaker 4: Unlitially. That's all we did. We would eat and then 431 00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 4: all ten of us would go around the room confessing 432 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 4: prior sins. I felt like I had almost nothing to share. 433 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,239 Speaker 4: I did not know what big sin I had in 434 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 4: my life that was so big that we had to 435 00:29:50,360 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 4: stay in Alamov for three days. And so I had 436 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,160 Speaker 4: this necklace, this gold necklace that i'd I think since 437 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 4: I was a child, and I think a family member 438 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 4: had given it to me. I made up this whole 439 00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,360 Speaker 4: story that I bought it in nineteen ninety six, So 440 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 4: this was pre maiden out a fortune teller's tent. 441 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,640 Speaker 3: So Lindsay told the other maidens that she went to 442 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,280 Speaker 3: a carnival with a friend, she had her fortune read 443 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 3: and got a necklace, and she never got rid of it. 444 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 4: She told them, I didn't realize the effect it had 445 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 4: on me because of the spirits that the necklace carried. 446 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 4: That was the big sin that I made up and 447 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 4: confessed just to say something, because I literally had no 448 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 4: idea what to say. Here, I am lying, which is 449 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 4: a sin, sinning confessing sin that wasn't really a sin. 450 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 3: Another time, Victor accused Lindsay of not quote claiming God's promises. 451 00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:59,240 Speaker 3: Victor often used obscure phrasing from the Bible, the exact 452 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 3: meaning unclear. Sometimes he gave her tasks in symbolic language 453 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 3: that felt impossible to obey, like he was messing with 454 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 3: her mind. Maybe A good example is a story that 455 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 3: started one day when Victor was upset with her and 456 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 3: another maiden named Lisa. He sent the two of them 457 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 3: out on a cryptic quest. He said Lindsay had to 458 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 3: find the White Stone and Lisa should find the bright 459 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 3: morning Star. Victor said not to come back until they 460 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 3: completed the mission. The White Stone and the Bright Morning 461 00:31:30,920 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 3: Star are mentioned in the Book of Revelation, the enigmatic 462 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,920 Speaker 3: part of the Bible about the apocalypse, But these two 463 00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 3: kids had no idea what they were actually supposed to do. 464 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,440 Speaker 3: They got to work doing chores at Lisa's family's house, 465 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,040 Speaker 3: confused about their mission, so they sat at the kitchen 466 00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 3: table discussing how to find the White Stone and the 467 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 3: Bright Morning Star. Lisa thought maybe baking some muffins for 468 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 3: Victor would help, so they brought him a basket of 469 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,720 Speaker 3: freshly baked muffins during breakfast time dining hall where everyone 470 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,000 Speaker 3: was gathered. But this was not the right move. 471 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:11,040 Speaker 4: I remember him getting so angry, so angry that we 472 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 4: had come with muffins, and I remember him saying stuff 473 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 4: like can't you see him eating breakfast? Like why would 474 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 4: I need these muffins? 475 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 3: They hadn't found the White Stone and the Bright Morning Star. 476 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 3: Victor sent them back out to keep looking, this time 477 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 3: with a deadline. They must meet him back at the 478 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 3: lodge by noon. What would happen if they arrived empty handed? 479 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,880 Speaker 3: What would happen if they didn't show up at all? 480 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 3: After a long discussion about what to do, they arrived late, 481 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,320 Speaker 3: which made Victor even angrier. He told them he'd been 482 00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,640 Speaker 3: sitting under the apple trees with two empty chairs for them. 483 00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,440 Speaker 3: They stood him up. They disobeyed God's word. Victor told 484 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:56,280 Speaker 3: Lindsay to pack up her belongings at the camp. He 485 00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 3: was sending her home. 486 00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 2: Immediately, she felt scared and sad at the same time. 487 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 2: She had daydreamed escape plans, but at this point these 488 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,640 Speaker 2: people were her home and she was being cast out. 489 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 2: Lindsay saw her future melt in front of her. They 490 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 2: loaded her stuff into a truck. As one of the 491 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 2: elders of the church started driving out of the camp 492 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 2: onto the dirt road, Lindsay saw Victor. She told the 493 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 2: driver to stop and jumped out of the car. Her 494 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:36,600 Speaker 2: body trembled, her heart began to beat faster. She started 495 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 2: to confess, I. 496 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 4: Don't even know what words were coming out of my 497 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 4: mouth at the time. Most of my reproof over the 498 00:33:43,480 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 4: years had to do with me pleasing people and having 499 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,520 Speaker 4: to get out of that mindset, and so I'm sure 500 00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 4: there was something in there of me talking about how 501 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 4: my eyes had been maybe on some of the other 502 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 4: young men, or I had been thinking about maybe wanting 503 00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 4: to get married someday, which aren't bad to be thinking about. 504 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:06,280 Speaker 4: That's what a normal teenager is probably thinking about, if 505 00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 4: they want to get married, if they want to have kids, 506 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:10,880 Speaker 4: what they might want to do in college, or a 507 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,640 Speaker 4: crush they have on a cute guy. 508 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 3: But Lindsay was learning to think and behave in a 509 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:16,439 Speaker 3: different way. 510 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 4: There was nothing left of myself to me. It was 511 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 4: just this empty, shallow of this empty person in there 512 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,280 Speaker 4: walking around being filled with what Victor wanted me to think, 513 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:34,720 Speaker 4: not any of my own thoughts or things that I 514 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:35,840 Speaker 4: had passions about. 515 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 3: Lindsay can't remember the words she used to confess, but 516 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,040 Speaker 3: something about them clicked for Victor. He'd later tell her 517 00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 3: that was the moment she'd found the white stone. She 518 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 3: could keep living at the camp, at least for now, 519 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,400 Speaker 3: but within a couple months Victor was unhappy again. She 520 00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 3: wasn't clear why. 521 00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 4: Victor said, I wasn't doing well spiritually. 522 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 3: So Victor sent her home to her parents. She wouldn't 523 00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:05,680 Speaker 3: have the honor of living with the Maidens. Lindsay hadn't 524 00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 3: lived at home in almost two years, but being there 525 00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 3: wasn't a relief. Home didn't feel like it used to. 526 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 3: It felt awkward and weird. When she got home. Her 527 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 3: mom cried. It was considered a disgrace to have her 528 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,439 Speaker 3: daughter tossed out of the maidens, and Lindsay missed them. 529 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,879 Speaker 3: They had started to feel like home. Then, late one 530 00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,840 Speaker 3: summer night, Lindsay lay asleep in her bed when she 531 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 3: heard music outside her window. Suddenly, she heard Victor's voice 532 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,719 Speaker 3: ringing through her bedroom. She slipped out of bed and 533 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,600 Speaker 3: ran outside. Victor was there with one of the other maidens. 534 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:43,760 Speaker 3: Lindsay hugged him. 535 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 2: The song they were singing was based on an old 536 00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,360 Speaker 2: hymn text written in the eighteen hundreds. It was the 537 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 2: poem that had been read right before the maiden ceremony 538 00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:56,120 Speaker 2: when they all made a vow to Victor. I found 539 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 2: a friend, Oh, such a friend. He loved me ere 540 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,759 Speaker 2: I knew him. He drew me with the chords of love, 541 00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,960 Speaker 2: and thus he bound me to him. 542 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 4: I found afraid, such afraid. 543 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 2: He loved. 544 00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:26,719 Speaker 1: The chords of love, and thus he bound me too. 545 00:36:29,239 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 2: This is a recording of River Road members singing it. 546 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 2: Lindsay had set the poem to music herself. Now Victor 547 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 2: and a maiden sang it for her as a reminder. 548 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 1: Which cannot be said. 549 00:36:49,840 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 2: River They spoke a few words with Lindsay, and then 550 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 2: they left. Lindsay had not been invited back. Her head swirled. 551 00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,760 Speaker 2: It all felt so complicated, like music, Her own music 552 00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,759 Speaker 2: was now a weapon, being wheelded against her. 553 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,479 Speaker 4: I can still remember watching them drive down the road. 554 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:29,320 Speaker 4: I remember in that moment, feeling so alone, so helpless, 555 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 4: so unworthy, almost so dirty, like I didn't like I 556 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,719 Speaker 4: was being rejected, almost like wanting to die, like so worthless. 557 00:37:38,680 --> 00:37:40,920 Speaker 4: It was almost like there was nowhere to go. I 558 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 4: had no one that wanted me. 559 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 2: That same night, Victor came back, the same kind of 560 00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 2: whiplash Lindsay faced all the time, hot and cold, showing up, 561 00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,759 Speaker 2: going away, then showing up again. He picked her up, 562 00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 2: took her to the lodge, yelled at her all night 563 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:02,160 Speaker 2: until she confessed something again. When the sun came up, 564 00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:07,120 Speaker 2: he finally accepted Lindsay back into his good graces. Then 565 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 2: Victor said she had a choice. He offered her two paths. 566 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 2: She could recommit to being a maiden, or she could 567 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 2: leave the maidens and eventually marry another man. 568 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,160 Speaker 4: Which honestly is crazy, Like you're asking a fifteen year 569 00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,000 Speaker 4: old to make these kind of commitments. You know. I mean, 570 00:38:24,680 --> 00:38:28,319 Speaker 4: I look back now, and it's just crazy when I 571 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,480 Speaker 4: think about this stuff, like these major life decisions that 572 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 4: he was having me figure out and decide. 573 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,080 Speaker 2: Lindsay had just been through so many iterations of Victor's anger, 574 00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 2: been rejected so many times, so many of those times 575 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,520 Speaker 2: she starved for his attention to be in his favor, 576 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:54,040 Speaker 2: in God's favor. Still, after all this manipulation, Lindsay knew 577 00:38:54,040 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 2: what she really wanted. She wanted to leave, and this 578 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:58,880 Speaker 2: was the first time she would have the guts to 579 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 2: say it, not just to anyone, to their leader and profit. 580 00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:08,400 Speaker 4: I told them that because of all the trouble I 581 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,719 Speaker 4: had caused in the maidens and tears that they had 582 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:16,600 Speaker 4: on my behalf, I wanted to not be a maiden 583 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 4: any longer and to get married someday. Thinking back, I 584 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,479 Speaker 4: honestly don't know how I got the guts to say 585 00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:39,120 Speaker 4: what I did, because I was so scared to go 586 00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:47,200 Speaker 4: against anything that he was saying. And he was really 587 00:39:47,280 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 4: quiet and eventually said okay, and I remember feeling really 588 00:39:51,600 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 4: good and at peace and really light. Then I was 589 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,120 Speaker 4: finally not going to be a maiden anymore and living 590 00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 4: like that and ready to move on. 591 00:40:19,800 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 2: Victor told Lindsay to hand in everything she'd been given 592 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 2: while she was a maiden. 593 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 4: Which was very hard. I don't think I expected that. 594 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,319 Speaker 4: Had me hand everything in, I didn't get to say 595 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:31,719 Speaker 4: goodbye to the maidens at all. 596 00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:39,280 Speaker 2: After that, when she was around the maidens, they didn't 597 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 2: talk to her or even look at her, almost like 598 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:45,560 Speaker 2: someone told them not to. But she didn't care. She 599 00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,480 Speaker 2: was ready for this change. No more constant scrutiny, no 600 00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 2: more living at the Shepherd's Camp. 601 00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 4: None of it had to do with the maidens anymore. 602 00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:56,239 Speaker 4: It didn't have to do with Victor. It didn't have 603 00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:59,480 Speaker 4: to do with remaining unmarried or even getting married. I 604 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,600 Speaker 4: wasn't thinking it all about marriage. It was all like 605 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:07,440 Speaker 4: me on my own journey now with God. And I 606 00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 4: think I was just feeling so free. 607 00:41:11,200 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 2: She felt like she could connect with God on her 608 00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:18,600 Speaker 2: own terms now. And then three days later there was 609 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:19,239 Speaker 2: the phone call. 610 00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,040 Speaker 4: Somebody got a call from the Shepherd's camp staff inviting 611 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 4: just the leadership to come to a campfire at the 612 00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:27,720 Speaker 4: camp and to bring me along. 613 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:35,120 Speaker 3: Lindsay arrived back at the Shepherd's Camp and joined the 614 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:38,520 Speaker 3: group around the fire pit on chairs and blankets. The 615 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,800 Speaker 3: fire was in the middle of the camp by the pond, 616 00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,720 Speaker 3: not far from Victor's lodge. Many of the camp elders 617 00:41:44,719 --> 00:41:50,840 Speaker 3: and the maidens were there. It was on a warm 618 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,800 Speaker 3: summer night, and Lindsay could see the water stars glistened 619 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:55,960 Speaker 3: off the pond. 620 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,440 Speaker 4: Victor did a teaching lord what would you have me 621 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 4: to do? 622 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 3: His point was they should submit themselves to God's will. 623 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,920 Speaker 3: They shouldn't focus on their wishes or desires, but. 624 00:42:09,040 --> 00:42:12,880 Speaker 4: God's ultimately, if we really look at it, it was 625 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:14,399 Speaker 4: a Victor, what would you have me to do? 626 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,080 Speaker 3: Then Victor turned to the maidens and asked each of 627 00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:23,680 Speaker 3: them to recommit. The maidens were clustered together on a hillside. 628 00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 3: He went one by one, and one by one they recommitted. 629 00:42:31,520 --> 00:42:34,719 Speaker 4: And I remember feeling in that moment like I have 630 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 4: nowhere to go, Like I basically am being trapped again 631 00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,319 Speaker 4: into being a maiden. Like what am I going to say? 632 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,600 Speaker 4: Nobody's supporting me, nobody's helping me. I was literally so 633 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 4: happy for the last few days, so free, so light, 634 00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,640 Speaker 4: and here I am with all the leadership, with Victor, 635 00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:59,319 Speaker 4: with my parents, with the maidens, And so I said yes. 636 00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:08,640 Speaker 3: Lindsay had returned, she would become a maiden again, and 637 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:10,359 Speaker 3: Victor would honor her for it. 638 00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,040 Speaker 4: Victor said that God had told him to give me 639 00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,759 Speaker 4: a new name. He said that the name was going 640 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:23,640 Speaker 4: to be Lia, which Lira is a constellation in the heavens, 641 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,560 Speaker 4: which is an eagle with a harp. 642 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 3: He told her, no matter what time of year it is, 643 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:32,600 Speaker 3: when you look up, Lira will always be overhead in 644 00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:38,239 Speaker 3: the sky. In giving her this new name, Victor was 645 00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:41,880 Speaker 3: not only labeling Lindsay a musician, but a leader among 646 00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:46,000 Speaker 3: the musicians, a place of high honor, even among the maidens. 647 00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:49,400 Speaker 3: It held responsibility and power. 648 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 4: He talked about how in war the musicians were always 649 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:56,359 Speaker 4: the one who went first in battle, and in our 650 00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:01,000 Speaker 4: spiritual warfare, it's always the musicians who like go first 651 00:44:01,040 --> 00:44:04,000 Speaker 4: and sound the battle cry, and he said that that's 652 00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,560 Speaker 4: what Lera is about. He basically said that I was 653 00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:11,840 Speaker 4: going to be this the forefront of the maidens and 654 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:22,239 Speaker 4: making sure no evil was around, casting down strongholds. I 655 00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,720 Speaker 4: think about that night, I remember in that moment feeling 656 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:28,520 Speaker 4: really special, but also when I think of it now, 657 00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:33,239 Speaker 4: it was almost like he prophesied his own demise. For 658 00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,640 Speaker 4: all those years you know Victor was the predator and 659 00:44:36,680 --> 00:44:55,480 Speaker 4: I was the prey, and then he became the prey. 660 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,840 Speaker 3: The Tuning is a production of Rococoa Punch and iHeart Podcasts. 661 00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:04,560 Speaker 3: It's written and produced by Erica Lance and me. Our 662 00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,880 Speaker 3: story editor is Emily Foreman. Mixing and sound designed by 663 00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:12,440 Speaker 3: James Trout. Grace Doe is our production assistant. Fact checking 664 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:17,560 Speaker 3: by Andrea Lopez Cruzado. Our executive producers are John Piatti 665 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,320 Speaker 3: and Jessica Alpert at Rococo Punch, and Katrina Norvell and 666 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,200 Speaker 3: Nikki e Tour at iHeart Podcasts. You can follow us 667 00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,279 Speaker 3: on Instagram at Rococo Punch, and you can reach out 668 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:32,960 Speaker 3: via email The Turning at rococopunch dot com. I'm Alan 669 00:45:33,040 --> 00:45:35,160 Speaker 3: Lance Lesser. Thanks for listening.