Speaker 1: Of the law and order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based on.
Speaker 1: These are our stories done done. Hello, Hi, Hi everybody.
Speaker 2: I'm Kara Klank, I'm Liza Traeger and this is That's
Speaker 2: Messed Up an SVU podcast. Welcome, Welcome, thank you for
Speaker 2: tuning in to our second episode of twenty twenty one.
Speaker 2: The year has already started out insane, just a full
Speaker 2: terrorist attack at our capital and people are still sending
Speaker 2: work emails.
Speaker 3: It's pretty wild.
Speaker 2: Someone tweeted like that's the most American thing ever where
Speaker 2: it's like, are we going to be working during the
Speaker 2: coup or.
Speaker 3: What is happening?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but our friend, our friend DJ was like, I
Speaker 1: love how brams are like out of respect, We're not
Speaker 1: going to be tweeting today. It's like, just don't tweet,
Speaker 1: Like you don't need to announce that Di Giorno is
Speaker 1: not gonna fucking tweet today.
Speaker 2: Well, no, I think the best thing not the best thing,
Speaker 2: but one of the funniest things of twenty twenty was
Speaker 2: when Gushers was talking about supporting black lives matter, and
Speaker 2: they're like, we're gonna join forces with fruit by the
Speaker 2: foot and fruit roll ups to really fight injustice. But
Speaker 2: I do love gushers, that's fucking' I missed Bodega's so much.
Speaker 2: I would get the twenty five cent gushers and Scooby
Speaker 2: Doo fruit snacks on my way home from a night out.
Speaker 1: I used to I guess this is a big difference
Speaker 1: between you and me, But I used to get a
Speaker 1: Ferrero rochet for twenty five cents, like one Ferrero rochet job.
Speaker 4: But I like fer.
Speaker 3: And I like gushers. They just weren't at my bodega.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: One time I had a Ferrero Rochet gelato.
Speaker 1: Oh me too, in Italy and it was mine was
Speaker 1: in Australia.
Speaker 3: We're so cool. Oh my god, we're so international. Well
Speaker 3: we moved pretty fast from the coup.
Speaker 1: But well, no, that was obviously a very harrow yesterday.
Speaker 1: I mean honestly, I got like nothing done. I was
Speaker 1: like glued to my phone. I felt sick. We was
Speaker 1: crazy because I felt so happy about Georgia. First thing
Speaker 1: in the morning, I was texting you on our group
Speaker 1: chain with our friends, being like I'm so happy, And
Speaker 1: then we barely got two seconds to recognize this Jewish
Speaker 1: senator and this the first black senator from Georgia being
Speaker 1: nominated in this historic election in Georgia before these insane
Speaker 1: right wing maniacs overtook the capitol.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, we have gotten some messages of
Speaker 2: people being like, you talk too much shit about cops,
Speaker 2: and it's like, I don't know what to tell you.
Speaker 3: But we did see a video of them taking selfies.
Speaker 2: With terrorists in the Capitol, So yeah, it needs to
Speaker 2: be said.
Speaker 3: I don't think a Stabler wouldever fucking do that.
Speaker 2: I don't think Benson would be taking selfies with a
Speaker 2: man with what was it cow husks on his head he.
Speaker 1: Was wearing like a Viking hat like he was wearing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know what kind of horns those were. But
Speaker 1: I hope that arrests are coming for all of them
Speaker 1: because that was really.
Speaker 2: Especially since we have like a new what is it
Speaker 2: new politicians and everyone coming in. I hope all these
Speaker 2: people get arrested, like someone with their foot on the
Speaker 2: desk of Nancy Pelosi, Like I just I'm staying at
Speaker 2: like my in law's condo, and I wouldn't put my
Speaker 2: foot on this table.
Speaker 3: I just don't understand how they do it.
Speaker 2: And I'm not married. It's like my sister's husband's family.
Speaker 2: I don't even know what do you call that?
Speaker 1: Yes, it was, but that is funny because it feels
Speaker 1: like they're your in laws because they're your sister's in laws. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it is weird, and like you're close with them, close
Speaker 1: enough that they're letting you party at their condo all winter.
Speaker 3: By partying, I'm just making green beans alone.
Speaker 1: But yeah, you're having a really healthy new year. You're
Speaker 1: like on a regiment. You're eating well, you're working out.
Speaker 1: I'm very inspired by you. I'm just getting bigger and
Speaker 1: bigger because there's a child inside of me.
Speaker 3: Yes, and people were so sweet and congrats on your baby. Yeah,
Speaker 3: thank you everybody. Thank you.
Speaker 1: Of some of my friends that I know that are like,
Speaker 1: I mean, my friends like contacted me because they.
Speaker 3: Found out on the podcast. I was like, I'm sorry
Speaker 3: you had to find out that way. It's weird.
Speaker 1: In a pandemic, I don't know who, like who I've
Speaker 1: reached out to. I forget who I've texted. You know,
Speaker 1: it's like weird.
Speaker 3: No, it's tough.
Speaker 2: I am I'm I'm on a one on one fitness
Speaker 2: program with Stasia pat Well and I'm basically I'm doing
Speaker 2: ten thousand steps, no booze, no nothing. I've never eaten
Speaker 2: a green bean in my life. I'm eating four cups
Speaker 2: a day. That's where I'm at.
Speaker 3: Four cups of green beans a day. See.
Speaker 1: I think I would like this because I like being
Speaker 1: told what to eat, Like not in a nexium type
Speaker 1: of way, but I like being like, if you like layout,
Speaker 1: like this is what you need to eat every day,
Speaker 1: every meal for three weeks and you'll lose weight.
Speaker 3: I'll I'm I get it. I would do that.
Speaker 2: No, it's very Teddy melon Camp. I have to send
Speaker 2: her my steps every day. I have to send her
Speaker 2: every single thing I eat from an app. And then
Speaker 2: she like negotiates, But I also I have negotiated multi
Speaker 2: tricolored peppers into the diet. I was like, I cannot
Speaker 2: keep eating green beans. You have to give me something,
Speaker 2: so I'm getting peppers and yeah, no, it's a different
Speaker 2: way of life.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't force this on anyone, but I'm and.
Speaker 1: It's not exactly Teddy Melliycamp because it's not five hundred calorisage.
Speaker 2: I'm eating fourteen hundred calories. But I just want to
Speaker 2: let everyone know. Before this, I was eating taco bell
Speaker 2: at least three times a week, pizza puffs. I'm in Chicago,
Speaker 2: I was going to Pertillo's for cheese fries, so this
Speaker 2: is definitely different. I'm eating three fourths cups of Greek
Speaker 2: yogurt a day and it is insane.
Speaker 3: I don't know how I'm doing.
Speaker 1: It, honestly, That's what Rosie has for breakfast every morning.
Speaker 1: It's quarters of a cup of Greek yogurt. Yeah, but
Speaker 1: she has it with honey on it.
Speaker 3: No, I'm not allowed anyhow. You can't have that.
Speaker 2: No money I've been I have a sugar free syrup,
Speaker 2: but it's I don't. So it's all about negotiating because
Speaker 2: I have all these things to hit. So I have
Speaker 2: to send her everything every night, and it has to
Speaker 2: be my steps. So like she basically is like night
Speaker 2: or day, snow, I don't give a shit, you better
Speaker 2: get your steps in.
Speaker 3: So I'm in the suburbs of Chicago.
Speaker 2: It was fully snowing, so wet, and the snow wasn't
Speaker 2: going to end till eleven. At nights, I was like,
Speaker 2: I have to go walk in the snow. So I
Speaker 2: threw on some rugs and Adida's running socks and I
Speaker 2: thought they'd be okay.
Speaker 3: And I walk for an hour and a half in
Speaker 3: the snow. Come home.
Speaker 2: My toes are fully blue, and I think I have frostbite.
Speaker 2: I'm googling. Googling is not the right thing to do.
Speaker 2: And I only know two outdoorsy people. One I is
Speaker 2: a girl I have a crush on that lives in Alaska,
Speaker 2: and I'm not sending her photos of my toes. And
Speaker 2: so then I was like, I got I have to
Speaker 2: message Hannah, our producer, and so I, oh, yes, Hannah's
Speaker 2: so outdoorsy, that's the perfect process. She's just camping constantly.
Speaker 2: And so I texted her in a panic. I'm like,
Speaker 2: I have frostbite. I don't know what to do. You
Speaker 2: have to help me. She's like, I'm pretty sure you
Speaker 2: don't have frostbite.
Speaker 3: It goes right on.
Speaker 1: It was close up pictures of your toes like the
Speaker 1: grasshost photos to ever receive out of the blue.
Speaker 3: I just send, like you need to send like a warning.
Speaker 2: I think before, like, hey, I'm about to send you
Speaker 2: some pretty graphic photo.
Speaker 3: I was terrified.
Speaker 2: And then I was like, maybe the socks did bleed
Speaker 2: onto my toes, and so I was like trying to
Speaker 2: rub it off. And then she texted me be like,
Speaker 2: do not rub your toes and I'm like, well, I
Speaker 2: already rubbed them and wild I didn't know this, but
Speaker 2: Hannah is Wilderness first Aid certified.
Speaker 1: I used to be as well when I was a
Speaker 1: campaign kind of texted Cara.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, I put my toes in the sink
Speaker 2: and for thirty minutes while I watched drag Race.
Speaker 1: You didn't notice when you were walking around that the
Speaker 1: water was like seeping in.
Speaker 3: I didn't have a choice. I mean, you walk for
Speaker 3: you have to walk back.
Speaker 1: What am I gonna do you need like winter ass
Speaker 1: boots or if you're gonna wear uggs, which like they're
Speaker 1: barely waterproof, you gotta wear wool socks.
Speaker 2: And then afterwards I was like they're not as blue.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. She goes and now put on
Speaker 2: socks to warm your feet, and I'm like, good idea,
Speaker 2: Like I didn't even think to put on socks.
Speaker 3: I was still just bare after my frostbite.
Speaker 2: But I did buy six pairs of wool socks and
Speaker 2: I picked up my old sorrel so else. Yeah, those
Speaker 2: are great for my parents' house. So now I'm walking
Speaker 2: in those. But I did have to send her blue
Speaker 2: toe photos.
Speaker 3: Liza.
Speaker 1: I really would hate for you to like lose a toe,
Speaker 1: to frostbite from like a New Year's resolution to get.
Speaker 3: Healthy, not even healthy, to get thin, like to get hot.
Speaker 3: It's not even hot. Yeah, it's not even health based.
Speaker 2: It is truly to just get thin from after COVID partying.
Speaker 3: And I was like, I'm gonna fucking lose my big toes. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so thank you for texting me. It was an honor. God. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm post COVID.
Speaker 2: I mean, you're married, it's gonna be do I'm sure
Speaker 2: we're going to party together somewhere, but like I'm ready.
Speaker 3: I just I want to rave.
Speaker 2: I'm going on my walks listening to Britney Spears fem
Speaker 2: Fatale album just like imagining a rave.
Speaker 1: I just, oh my god, Well, we'll save story of
Speaker 1: the time that we basically went to a rave and
Speaker 1: did Molly to.
Speaker 3: Why do we have to save it? No, you have
Speaker 3: to mention this. We can't just meant so.
Speaker 2: Our friend Megan's had a birthday party and we went
Speaker 2: and did Molly in a dance warehouse.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a monthly party in LA. That's like
Speaker 1: at a big play. It's really cool and fun. And
Speaker 1: I have done Molly before, but I did. When I
Speaker 1: do it, I just am so happy. But my way
Speaker 1: of being happy is like engaging with other people. So
Speaker 1: I'm not just sitting there being like feel the music
Speaker 1: and like space out.
Speaker 3: I'm like talking to Lisa.
Speaker 1: And this was a few years ago, and I didn't
Speaker 1: know Lisa as well as I do now, and so
Speaker 1: I was like.
Speaker 3: Where'd you go to college?
Speaker 1: I'm like screaming questions to Lisa over this techno music.
Speaker 3: And I'm like do you have any siblings? Just? And
Speaker 3: Lisa's like can I just feel the music? And like fun?
Speaker 3: I was like, cool, we'll get you up later, like
Speaker 3: so ridiculous. It was so fun.
Speaker 2: And then I finally told you, I'm like, you can
Speaker 2: keep talking to me, just I cannot respond anymore.
Speaker 3: I just cannot. I think I did. I think I
Speaker 3: just kept like saying this. The funny thing.
Speaker 2: Our friend Megan has a podcast and she got this.
Speaker 2: She got a bad review for her podcast, The greatest
Speaker 2: because she revealed that her and her husband did Molly
Speaker 2: at their wedding, and someone said, I supported your podcast,
Speaker 2: but now that I know you did Molly at your wedding,
Speaker 2: you're disgusting and decided do.
Speaker 1: It like at the ceremony. By the way, she wasn't
Speaker 1: rolling when she said I do.
Speaker 2: She said she did it late late night, like yeah,
Speaker 2: it's crazy.
Speaker 3: People are so judgment Kara broke.
Speaker 1: Her knee at that one, and that broke yeah, but
Speaker 1: you I had to go to physical therapy. I was
Speaker 1: dropping it low like I was twenty years old, and
Speaker 1: guess what, I am not twenty years old. So I
Speaker 1: dropped it low twenty five times and then my knee
Speaker 1: decided to leave the wedding.
Speaker 3: So we will get started.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's get going, because we've got a great case
Speaker 1: for you guy, a great episode and case for you today.
Speaker 2: And if you're just joining us, this is the first
Speaker 2: time you've ever decided to listen. We talk about an
Speaker 2: episode of SVU, then cover the crime that is based
Speaker 2: on and we get to interview someone that was in
Speaker 2: the fucking episode.
Speaker 3: Enjoy.
Speaker 1: All right, guys, let's get into Counterfeit. This is a
Speaker 1: very interesting episode from an early season. Basically, a woman's
Speaker 1: body is found raped and murdered blunt force trauma under
Speaker 1: the west Side Highway, like a skiv area where like
Speaker 1: sex workers hang out.
Speaker 2: And yeah, whenever it's under anything, I think of the
Speaker 2: Chili Pepper song under a bridge, under this bridge, that's
Speaker 2: where crimes happen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no bridge that you hang out under. That's
Speaker 1: like people are just having big sales and stuff. So
Speaker 1: this woman's name is Paula Grace. They get into the
Speaker 1: back of her car, her trunk like BMW is just
Speaker 1: parked right there with a ton of pills in the back.
Speaker 3: Of a drug called rye Tex.
Speaker 2: You know. One of my favorite things happens in the
Speaker 2: top of the episode.
Speaker 3: It's when like Benson.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, I can't believe I've per missed. This son's
Speaker 1: body is found under the Westide Highway. Benson shows up
Speaker 1: in like a sparkly dress, fresh from a date. No
Speaker 1: fewer than twelve people comment on it, like everyone's like, oh,
Speaker 1: nice dress.
Speaker 3: Like you know, it's like I love when they come
Speaker 3: from their regular.
Speaker 1: Life, and they do that a lot to Benson in
Speaker 1: early seasons, Like I think they're trying to be like
Speaker 1: she's trying to balance a dating life with her cop life,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: But also maybe it was a later date.
Speaker 2: In my head when I think of dates, like maybe
Speaker 2: it's our generation or this was a long time ago.
Speaker 3: It's casually, you go to dinner, you go for a drink.
Speaker 3: She looks like she's coming from a ball. Yeah, it's like,
Speaker 3: what date is this? This is a fucking New Year's outfit.
Speaker 1: And she's it is truly a New Year's outfit, and
Speaker 1: she's in it for a while, like and every time
Speaker 1: she moves to a new scene like the Emmys, like
Speaker 1: nice dress. Like everyone, I'm like, look, I think that
Speaker 1: wardrobe was just like, hey, is for a day? We
Speaker 1: just put Benson in not a short sleeve mock turtleneck
Speaker 1: and gray.
Speaker 2: Slax like she just wanted to live? Ye Can we
Speaker 2: just have a day where she wears something hot and
Speaker 2: it's Benson if you guys are wondering. She has a
Speaker 2: pixie baby cut with wispy bangs. So that's where we're.
Speaker 3: At with ben That's where we are in the Benston hairtimeline.
Speaker 1: Okay, So in the trunk of this woman's car we
Speaker 1: find a million dollars worth of this drug called Rietex.
Speaker 3: Of course, they find out that the right text is
Speaker 3: not real.
Speaker 1: It's a counterfeit drug that basically her company is trying
Speaker 1: to flood the market with this counterfeit drug so that
Speaker 1: when her company comes up with their drug, it's going
Speaker 1: to be a huge success. And she's about to whistle
Speaker 1: blow on this company with the FBI and reveal all
Speaker 1: this stuff that's happening with these fake pills. Meanwhile, she's
Speaker 1: also sleeping with her boss, Regolia, who wants to call Ravioli.
Speaker 1: So she's sleeping with Ravioli. She wants him to leave
Speaker 1: his wife and stuff, and that's just not going to happen.
Speaker 1: And what's fucked up is everyone keeps calling her ugly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they interview people at the work. Even the guy, the
Speaker 1: boss that's fucking her is like, she's nothing to look.
Speaker 3: They call her mousey. They're being mean, they're being really
Speaker 3: mean to her.
Speaker 2: They're like, no one really looked at her ever, Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: they're very vicious, but whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so they I think they think that he has
Speaker 1: the motive to kill her. But then suddenly there's a
Speaker 1: second victim, So we kind of are done with this
Speaker 1: storyline with Rogolia. He's obviously going to get turned over
Speaker 1: to the FBI for this drug scam. And now we're
Speaker 1: going to meet this second victim, but she's actually has survived.
Speaker 1: Her name is Francesca Resner, and she says the man
Speaker 1: who attacked her dunt dunt dunn was a cop.
Speaker 2: Yes, and the thing that bothers well, I don't want
Speaker 2: to get ahead of myself, is finnax a little defensive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and this is season three of the show.
Speaker 1: They're definitely still trying to act like cops do no wrong,
Speaker 1: like cops are the good guys blah blah blah, which
Speaker 1: we all know is a fantasy in this show.
Speaker 3: So we also missed do you want to say our
Speaker 3: MD to me?
Speaker 2: Had one of my favorite lines, and she wrote, no seamen,
Speaker 2: just rough Rider. Oh yeah, and rough Rider is a
Speaker 2: brand of condom in the SVU universe.
Speaker 3: But it's also like even the rough Riders.
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, the rough Riders was like a rap group,
Speaker 1: but like rough Riders as a condom name is really gross. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because they kept saying yeah, yeah, it's like that is
Speaker 1: an important detail.
Speaker 3: Sorry.
Speaker 1: So Francesca Rusner is the second victim. She says she
Speaker 1: was pulled over breathalyzed, and then the cop said, you
Speaker 1: can have sex with me and I won't arrest you.
Speaker 1: She pretends to pass out. He drags her like away
Speaker 1: from the car and reapes her. She says she wasn't drinking.
Speaker 1: They bring her into the precinct. She was definitely drinking.
Speaker 1: She blew a one point too. I don't even know
Speaker 1: if that's a.
Speaker 3: Lot, but finn is it's a lot. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then they go and they find out where she was
Speaker 1: earlier that night. The bard the classic SVU thing where
Speaker 1: they go have you seen this woman? Show a picture
Speaker 1: and the bartender goes vodka coke. No Ice knows exactly
Speaker 1: what she's been.
Speaker 2: Drinking, and he said it was a party of three
Speaker 2: hundred people over there, So I had of three hundred
Speaker 2: people he recognized this woman and remembered everything. I know.
Speaker 1: Why why vodka coke with no ice is the most
Speaker 1: disgusting drink I can ever think of?
Speaker 2: Well except so lady Sonya Morgan, Real Househoves of New York,
Speaker 2: CIRs coke and Rose.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's disgusting as well, Ye, but I would imagine
Speaker 1: that both of those are a little bit chilled. No Ice,
Speaker 1: you want warm coke and vodka. I'm honestly gagging a
Speaker 1: little bit even thinking about it.
Speaker 2: Because of fucking drag race, gagging and sickening. Now I
Speaker 2: can't even I'm like, wait, what does she mean? I'm
Speaker 2: not gagging in that way. No, my dad drinks some
Speaker 2: glasses of vodka room temperature, and when we go out
Speaker 2: to dinner or something, he'll be he'll like yell at
Speaker 2: the server and be like, no ice. He thinks it's
Speaker 2: wasting the liquor. Like that, it meant like suddenly there'll
Speaker 2: be less liquor if there's ice.
Speaker 3: That's disgusting.
Speaker 2: Even this is even more psychotic. We would go to
Speaker 2: Giredano's on Monday was half prised pizza night.
Speaker 3: My dad would get a beer sneak in.
Speaker 2: Little bottles of vodka, pour it in and put pepper
Speaker 2: in it.
Speaker 3: And that's what he would drink with his pizza, with
Speaker 3: his deep Das vodka with beer and pepper and pepper.
Speaker 3: Fucking sick. Okay, never mind, I thought I was really
Speaker 3: going down a road here with the vodka coke, and
Speaker 3: so it's disgusting me.
Speaker 2: I'm just I just got on a tangent of room
Speaker 2: temperature Lennos and the people you love that love them.
Speaker 1: Well, that's the only reason I could think of about
Speaker 1: why like he would remember her anyway. They do this
Speaker 1: on countless as episodes where bartenders just remember the order.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I don't remember people that I like spent
Speaker 1: time with two weeks ago. So all the evidence in
Speaker 1: this case is starting to point to a cop. They
Speaker 1: track down two cops that are anti crime cops.
Speaker 2: And because I also want to say to me, found
Speaker 2: blue fibers, yes, and there were navy blue fibers underneath.
Speaker 3: So that's what if you kind of know what the
Speaker 3: episode's about.
Speaker 1: You're like navy blue fibers, like okay, like a uniform
Speaker 1: for sure. And when Lisa says to me, she's talking
Speaker 1: about Tamaratuney, who is the yes, so too me suitcases
Speaker 1: found some navy fibers underneath that fingernails. So they narrow
Speaker 1: it down to these two cops, el Marcozy and Roger Graves.
Speaker 1: Graves is a black guy, so he's not the guy
Speaker 1: because the victims said it was a white guy. Marcosi
Speaker 1: is played by a guy who's been on four episodes
Speaker 1: of SVU. They love to use the same people. I
Speaker 1: don't personally like that. I like them to keep it
Speaker 1: separate in the world. I don't like when I see
Speaker 1: somebody as a perp and then I see them come
Speaker 1: back as a lawyer.
Speaker 3: I don't like that. I like it because it's just
Speaker 3: people working. Yeah, it's people working.
Speaker 1: But there's so many actors in New York, and I
Speaker 1: am creating a world in my head and it takes
Speaker 1: me out of it.
Speaker 3: Well, the biggest case of that is what's no da
Speaker 3: as a rapist or an earlier episode that killed a stripper.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but we disagree, Like I like seeing familiar faces
Speaker 2: and you hate it.
Speaker 3: So that's like a fun thing.
Speaker 1: No, I like it's different anyway. So Benson goes to
Speaker 1: visit her old boss, who gives her some intel on
Speaker 1: these two cops. Then Benson and Finn have a fight
Speaker 1: because I think Finn is again trying to be like, don't.
Speaker 3: Rat out these cops. Oh, he's being awful.
Speaker 2: And then I don't know if this is the part,
Speaker 2: but when Finn is to Benson is like what side
Speaker 2: are you on? And she yells the victims and it's like, yeah, bro,
Speaker 2: like you have to. That's the whole thing with evidence
Speaker 2: I don't know, right, but he.
Speaker 1: Changes as the show goes on, Like later I think
Speaker 1: like Finn is much more open to the idea that
Speaker 1: cops can be dirty, but in early episodes.
Speaker 2: He's very also just for remember one thing that will
Speaker 2: be important later as Francesca said that the cop took
Speaker 2: her driver's license.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, so the person who raped her took her
Speaker 1: driver's license, which is scary but also feels like a trophy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but she was saying, she goes he knows where
Speaker 2: I live, right, so iab gets involved.
Speaker 1: This is the first appearance of Ed Tucker, who really yes,
Speaker 1: this is his first episode. He goes on to be
Speaker 1: in like thirty episodes of SVU. He later is a
Speaker 1: romantic love interest with Benson. His character recently passed away.
Speaker 3: No show.
Speaker 2: Oh his character his character, not the actor. The actor
Speaker 2: is Bart Bass, also from Gossip Girl. I still I've
Speaker 2: like hoped to want Yeah, I just I'm glad he's alive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, sorry, I didn't mean to tell you he died.
Speaker 3: Tucker died.
Speaker 2: But Tucker like, when I see him, to me, it's
Speaker 2: like a lizard, Like I'm like motherfucker. And in the
Speaker 2: real world, I'm like investigate these cops, those shady motherfuckers.
Speaker 2: But in the show, they really brainwash you. When I
Speaker 2: see him, I'm like, let our officers alone. Like I
Speaker 2: so true.
Speaker 3: I hate what he does to me. No, it's so true.
Speaker 1: The show paints i AB as a bad thing, and
Speaker 1: I think a lot of movies do that too, Like
Speaker 1: they paint IAB internal Affairs Bureau. If you're not like
Speaker 1: super up on this stuff.
Speaker 3: All they're trying to do is check power.
Speaker 1: They're just trying to check and make sure cops aren't
Speaker 1: being dicks, and they are being dicks, like heads up
Speaker 1: as we've seen. So Tucker reveals to them that Marcosi
Speaker 1: is under suspicion, suspicion of having sex with a sex
Speaker 1: worker for reduced sentence, and that she is missing this
Speaker 1: sex worker, so that is sketchy. They talk to one
Speaker 1: of her friends who tells them all about how Marcosi
Speaker 1: was kind of trying to date one of her friend Raquel,
Speaker 1: the one who's missing.
Speaker 2: And Finn has another awful line here, yes, where he
Speaker 2: goes not on the word of some hooker and it's
Speaker 2: like you are working in special victims. Yeah, like you
Speaker 2: can't call her a hooker and not trust her if
Speaker 2: your job is to help her, right, So that you know,
Speaker 2: I love Finn, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's some problematic at the beginning. I mean remember
Speaker 1: he was like not cool about a son being gay
Speaker 1: for a minute. So Finn definitely grows.
Speaker 2: Because even the beginning of this episode, he's like jimmying
Speaker 2: a car and they're like, were you a car robber?
Speaker 2: He's like, I was in the Boy Scouts but he
Speaker 2: winks yeah, so you know he has a pass.
Speaker 1: He's as this is also there's another quote here where Craigan,
Speaker 1: I think, says nobody wants the media bad mouthing the.
Speaker 3: Job, and I was just like, Lol, it's twenty twenty.
Speaker 1: That's all people do now is bad mouthed Cops Finn, Benson,
Speaker 1: and Tucker. They investigate Marcosi's locker where they find rough
Speaker 1: Riders mount up. They find the same brand of condom
Speaker 1: that they found in the first victims.
Speaker 2: So he's like a teenage boy and he has like
Speaker 2: sexy women photos in the inside.
Speaker 1: Yeah, cop locker, He's got like hot babes inside of
Speaker 1: his locker.
Speaker 3: It's really creepy. That's weird to me as a grown person. Well,
Speaker 3: they're setting it up.
Speaker 1: They're setting it up that this guy is definitely this
Speaker 1: cop rapist, right, like.
Speaker 3: Because he has a chain on his neck. He has
Speaker 3: like a gold necklace, so it's like, you know, he's problematic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so yeah, there's a lot of evidence that seems
Speaker 1: to just point to Marco's being a total slime bag.
Speaker 1: Like he actually talks about how he oaks up with
Speaker 1: sex workers like to get a little extra on the side,
Speaker 1: but I never pay for it.
Speaker 3: So it's like he's not an angel for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they invest what is it called when they're
Speaker 2: in the room question, they question him, and he's not scared.
Speaker 3: He's like, I don't need my union rep. I have nothing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I'm linked in. So that of course is like you
Speaker 3: know usually.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and we see Huang, we get our our
Speaker 1: buddy be d Wong. Yeah, so doctor Huang comes and
Speaker 1: interviews Mark Cozy. But you're you're just.
Speaker 3: Like not that how they get.
Speaker 2: It's Wong but it's h U A n G. Are
Speaker 2: you sure pretty positive? I don't think it is. I
Speaker 2: think it's Wong w O n G.
Speaker 4: Girl.
Speaker 2: If you're making I've seen enough credits. I think it's
Speaker 2: b D one that's because it's B. D.
Speaker 3: Wong. Yeah, his last name is Wong. He's George Wang
Speaker 3: on the show.
Speaker 2: I've never honest here, if someone put a gun to
Speaker 2: my head, I'd be like, his name is bea dy Wong.
Speaker 3: I would don't care. I would hate to see that way.
Speaker 2: I'm so is being such a fan and I had
Speaker 2: no idea that that was his name.
Speaker 1: How you spell it? Yeah, but you're still saying it
Speaker 1: the right way. There's just spell different ways. It is
Speaker 1: BD Wong with a W. We have to cut all
Speaker 1: of this.
Speaker 3: No, we don't.
Speaker 2: That I mean, yeah, no, we don't say my face.
Speaker 2: I cannot believe that I didn't. So it's George.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's George Huang. Did they call him George?
Speaker 1: Not really, it's always pretty much Huang. But it's funny
Speaker 1: that you thought that I was.
Speaker 3: Just making up this pronunciation of yeah. I thought you
Speaker 3: were trying to be like, you know, rolling your rs
Speaker 3: and you're like when I speak Mandarin, and I'm like
Speaker 3: letting you.
Speaker 2: Know, Yeah, okay, I also just learned that too.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I was like, am I wrong? I had
Speaker 3: to google it to like for myself. Saying it like
Speaker 3: you sounded like a Hebrew accent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like hung yeah, no, I'm not trying to do
Speaker 1: like a Rachel kind of thing, which is my Hebrid name.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 1: So another woman then comes forward saying that she saw
Speaker 1: the story of a rapist cop in the paper because
Speaker 1: it did leak, as it always does, and Huang breaks
Speaker 1: it down that like, it's like, whoever this cop is,
Speaker 1: It's like the badge gives him power and the gun
Speaker 1: and it's all about control and he keeps the licenses
Speaker 1: as trophies.
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 1: Then Finn and Benson go to speak to Francesca, the
Speaker 1: second victim, and guess what, she has been taken away
Speaker 1: by a cop.
Speaker 2: But it's not them, and the neighbors all watched and yeah,
Speaker 2: everybody watched and was like, yeah, good thing.
Speaker 3: The cops took her in, like it was weird. There
Speaker 3: was a shocking. It's like she's a party girl.
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean she should be dragged by the police
Speaker 2: screaming right, So basically because they also, this is so
Speaker 2: messed up. I don't even know who this is, but
Speaker 2: I wrote perfect messy bun.
Speaker 1: So oh the third victim. The third victim has a
Speaker 1: perfect messy bug. Yeah, I noticed that as well. So
Speaker 1: the third victim who came in and said, you know,
Speaker 1: I never saw his face, so she can't really identify
Speaker 1: him either, but she's definitely like it all happened in
Speaker 1: the same exact way. This is clearly just showing a pattern.
Speaker 1: So they cut mar Cosey loose because he was in
Speaker 1: custody when Francesca was taken away, so it's like he's
Speaker 1: clearly innocent.
Speaker 3: And we find out the guy's dick doesn't work properly.
Speaker 1: Yes, we find out that the perp who is doing
Speaker 1: this is like sometimes having a problem with erections and
Speaker 1: then he will slap the victim or something do something
Speaker 1: violent to like get going again, which.
Speaker 3: Is not terrifying.
Speaker 2: Plugged you, I have an old old joke where I
Speaker 2: say all the world's problems are caused by weird dickt men. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and SV proves it down and time again. Very true.
Speaker 1: Okay, So they start to go check out maybe this
Speaker 1: is a person who isn't a cop and is posing
Speaker 1: as a cop. So they go to like these stores,
Speaker 1: and how does the NYPD gear because they cross reference
Speaker 1: the receipts from this guy's like fake uniform store with
Speaker 1: a car because MARCOSI had seen a car.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he's got a comrcial license plate.
Speaker 2: These people, I bet you're listening and you're confused, and
Speaker 2: I basically you know how he was denying being there,
Speaker 2: and then while he's being interrogated, he admits that he
Speaker 2: was there but driving away and then saw someone.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he thought it was his boss.
Speaker 1: Okay, but it wasn't his boss because he ran the
Speaker 1: plate later and the plate was a cop type of car,
Speaker 1: but it was not a police issued vehicle. And that's
Speaker 1: how they find this guy, Jeffrey Trapani. So they cross
Speaker 1: reference it with the records of the store and they
Speaker 1: find this guy who's bought like the cop light, the badge,
Speaker 1: like the whole outfit whatever. And they they find this guy.
Speaker 1: He works for the city doing like trash pickup. They
Speaker 1: follow him to a cop bar where he's having a drink.
Speaker 1: Then this is one of my I love when they
Speaker 1: do this shit killed it. Finn and Olivia just sit
Speaker 1: next to him and have a loud conversation being like
Speaker 1: we're getting kind of close on this case, and like
Speaker 1: just drop a bunch of hints, and then they follow
Speaker 1: the guy.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, they're basically implying, like, he better better kill
Speaker 3: this girl because if she because she turns up, we're
Speaker 3: going to find him.
Speaker 1: So they follow him back to his like layer where
Speaker 1: he has Francesca tied up and he's got all of
Speaker 1: the licenses of all his victims like.
Speaker 3: Taped to the wall, and they arrest him. And there
Speaker 3: were a lot of licenses. Yeah, there were a lot.
Speaker 3: There were a lot. There were at least a dozen, So.
Speaker 2: He probably cut a lot of women. I mean, that's
Speaker 2: the thing. It's like he wasn't a real cop and
Speaker 2: that was upsetting. But I think a point of this,
Speaker 2: and like with the ideas, is that the women probably
Speaker 2: didn't want to come forward because he was a cop.
Speaker 2: And being a cop, it's like people are going to
Speaker 2: trust you enough to pull over, yeah, and then you
Speaker 2: can abuse your power. But it's this thing where because
Speaker 2: you're in a uniform, people will open the door to.
Speaker 1: You and we're going to get into it like what
Speaker 1: it's based on. But there are some I mean, most recently,
Speaker 1: the Golden State killer was discovered and he was a cop.
Speaker 1: So a lot of things that the cops are doing
Speaker 1: messed up, and one can be just committing crimes outright
Speaker 1: and using no I.
Speaker 2: Haven't all caps in my notes while I was watching
Speaker 2: that episode, like I am livid the cop wasn't guilty,
Speaker 2: Like I was so mad. But you know, we watched
Speaker 2: the show for the twists and turns.
Speaker 1: I mean, because MARCOSI still needs to be disciplined for
Speaker 1: having sex with sex workers, like to lower their sentences
Speaker 1: or let them off like y's not okay, Yeah, so
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break and then I'm excited for
Speaker 1: you to tell me everything about the real crime this
Speaker 1: was based on.
Speaker 2: Okay, we are going to be talking about the true
Speaker 2: crime of counterfeit, and it's a wild one. I watched
Speaker 2: The Forensic Files, another amazing crime show, and it's the
Speaker 2: base of Forensic Files is about evidence, and there was
Speaker 2: a lot of evidence in this case, a lot of
Speaker 2: amazing detective work. So we're going to get into it.
Speaker 2: Good news up top that's different from sview. I don't
Speaker 2: know if it's good. The cop is guilty here, so
Speaker 2: there's no games and the cop is so so bad.
Speaker 2: So basically what happened there is a woman Karen Notts
Speaker 2: Justice for Care with a C.
Speaker 3: So do you still like her? It's the same name though.
Speaker 2: So she was like beautiful and young and had like
Speaker 2: budding environmentalist.
Speaker 3: They said she was studying to be a teacher.
Speaker 2: She was in track and field, worked at the zoo
Speaker 2: active like just a really seemed like an effervescent girl.
Speaker 3: This was in southern California, right, yeah, in San Diego.
Speaker 2: The bad guy's a California Highway Patrol hr chips. Yes,
Speaker 2: And so basically her boyfriend, also a hot guy, he
Speaker 2: had the flu, and so she decided to drive to
Speaker 2: his house be a good girlfriend, you know, take care
Speaker 2: of her boy with the flu. And she called her
Speaker 2: father at around eight pm and let him know I'm
Speaker 2: coming home. So then after a few hours, the dad
Speaker 2: knew something was wrong and he something in his gut
Speaker 2: was like I need to go look for her. And
Speaker 2: he went driving and driving around and he found the car,
Speaker 2: her body and nothing was there.
Speaker 3: So the car was in what the cops called the tombs.
Speaker 2: And it's like underneath kind of like in the SVU
Speaker 2: episode where it's like under an exit ramp on the
Speaker 2: highway that leads to nothing. It leads to like a
Speaker 2: dead end, and it is creepy, dark, eerie there. It's
Speaker 2: not like a cool place. The cops come and like
Speaker 2: from the car. What was weird was the door was
Speaker 2: open and her purse was on the sea. So that's
Speaker 2: of course horrifying. Like once you know, she was dragged
Speaker 2: out of the vehicle or taken out and they ended
Speaker 2: up walking and they found her body at the bottom
Speaker 2: of a bridge, so right nearby, nearby seventy feet away.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, So seventy feet away there was like a bridge.
Speaker 2: They looked and she was below and the dad was
Speaker 2: still on the crime scene because he found the car,
Speaker 2: and he said.
Speaker 3: That's brutal.
Speaker 2: They said, like when the cops were coming to him,
Speaker 2: he just knew and this is like pretty sad. But
Speaker 2: his response when he found out to the cops, the
Speaker 2: dad said, I wish you could have known her. She
Speaker 2: was an angel. So that was upsetting. And of course,
Speaker 2: you know, the motive wasn't clear. Nothing was clear about this,
Speaker 2: and the biggest question for the police were what made
Speaker 2: her pull over here?
Speaker 3: What made her go over there?
Speaker 2: And obviously because we know what's about to happen, we
Speaker 2: know it's the cop, so that was hard for them
Speaker 2: to figure out. And like Finn Toutuola, this cop and
Speaker 2: this forensic files that keep being interviewed, and he keeps
Speaker 2: being like, I didn't think it was him, and it's
Speaker 2: like more and more evidence. He's like, I couldn't believe it,
Speaker 2: I said, and then it's like you were wrong, Like
Speaker 2: so he you know, there was a true life Finn
Speaker 2: in the situation. But yeah, so there's no clear motive,
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of evidence. They do find a
Speaker 2: yellow fiber and that is it. There was no evidence
Speaker 2: of sexual assault, but strangulation bruise.
Speaker 3: On so that was the cause of death, is trigulation. Strangulation.
Speaker 3: There was a bruise on her.
Speaker 2: Face and no sexual assault, so that's you know, different
Speaker 2: from SVU. Then they found evidence of her filling up
Speaker 2: her gas tank at the chevron. Okay, so they do
Speaker 2: have a run video and everything seemed kosher. There was
Speaker 2: nothing weird happening at the gas station. But at the
Speaker 2: crime scene there were two suspicious SAPs. There were two
Speaker 2: suspicious skid marks. Apecials had suspicious skid marks is like
Speaker 2: a that sounds like a way to warm up in
Speaker 2: theater cars.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So they found two of them and they couldn't
Speaker 2: tell if it was breaking or accelerating or whatever. But
Speaker 2: the space between the tracks was fifty three inches, so
Speaker 2: I guess that's like a big gap.
Speaker 3: So they assume it's a big car.
Speaker 2: So I just I love evidence based information like this,
Speaker 2: Like I just I think it's so magical. My favorite
Speaker 2: doctor Michael Baden. I love doctor Michael Bodden, legendary forensic pathologist.
Speaker 2: He always says forensics is the dead communicating. Yeah, It's
Speaker 2: like I just got chills thinking about it. It truly
Speaker 2: is like the dead somehow helping find their killers. Yea.
Speaker 2: And so it's really beautiful. So they said it was
Speaker 2: a big car. It had to be someone they trusted
Speaker 2: since she pulled over. So at first they didn't think copp.
Speaker 2: They thought boyfriend. Oh so boyfriend, yeah, because he was
Speaker 2: the last one that saw there was no evidence. But
Speaker 2: the sister lived with him and was like, no, I
Speaker 2: was with him and it just didn't add up, and
Speaker 2: he would be at the chevron like it just it
Speaker 2: wasn't him. But the cops were like, we only had
Speaker 2: his word that she didn't leave the house, and it's
Speaker 2: like we also have her on tape at the chevron.
Speaker 2: But okay, okay, but sure, guys, so then after this case,
Speaker 2: it obviously is upset, you know, shocks shock waves, like
Speaker 2: what the fuck this is scary. She was young, like blonde,
Speaker 2: like she just had everything of like a classic victim
Speaker 2: that would get media.
Speaker 3: A lot of media. So Craigpyre a chip.
Speaker 2: He goes on the local news to do a segment
Speaker 2: about how women should protect themselves from this happening to them,
Speaker 2: and then all of a sudden, from that, floods of
Speaker 2: women start calling being like that creep pulled me over.
Speaker 2: And so all of a sudden, thirty women call like
Speaker 2: the police department in the news, and like, there's a
Speaker 2: hubbub that this guy, Craig Pyre, who put himself on
Speaker 2: TV to do a segment how not to get fucking
Speaker 2: taken and assaulted by strangers on the road, is a
Speaker 2: person that now all of these women are calling, going
Speaker 2: I recognized this fucking crazy.
Speaker 1: And when he pulled those people over, those women over,
Speaker 1: what did he do?
Speaker 2: So this is what's crazy. There was no physical violence
Speaker 2: or touching on any of these women. He just sat
Speaker 2: in the passenger seat and spoke to them inappropriately.
Speaker 3: So there's a lot of sexual language.
Speaker 1: He was trying to get dates, right, Is that what
Speaker 1: I read something that he was trying to like date
Speaker 1: these women. So I think he was like talking to
Speaker 1: them creepily and hoping one of them would be like,
Speaker 1: I like.
Speaker 3: This, but guess what.
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, it was kind of hook speed dates, I
Speaker 2: guess yeah. And he took them to that particular off right.
Speaker 2: It was like the same off ramp. I think that
Speaker 2: was his favorite off ramp. It went to nothing, and
Speaker 2: so they all went there. So obviously a connector. But yeah,
Speaker 2: these women said that he would just ask questions and
Speaker 2: say in appropriate sexual shit.
Speaker 3: But that's it.
Speaker 2: That date thing actually makes sense because he's obviously a
Speaker 2: fucking weirdo.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Fuck in the real world, I can't figure it out.
Speaker 2: A weird dick man, for sure, a weird dick man.
Speaker 2: So yeah, So then they go to his logs and
Speaker 2: in the logs it says that he was somewhere else.
Speaker 2: Then they dig deeper there are race marks. Oh, so
Speaker 2: like where that log that kept put him somewhere else?
Speaker 2: There wasn't any race mark in there, so that's something
Speaker 2: to investigate. So they questioned Craig Pyre. Obviously, all these
Speaker 2: women called it's the same off ramp like everything's trying
Speaker 2: to make starting to make sense, except to this one
Speaker 2: chief who goes, I don't know, I think Craig is great.
Speaker 2: So while they're questioning him, they see that he has injuries. Yes,
Speaker 2: scratch marks, right, yeah, scratch marks, and he blames that
Speaker 2: he ran into a fence and he named specific fence
Speaker 2: and they're like the fence height and what you're saying
Speaker 2: does not do not add a yeah, And that's the
Speaker 2: thing with the cop. It's like you should be a
Speaker 2: little bit better about getting away with this crime and
Speaker 2: also bad to the cops, where it's like, why didn't
Speaker 2: you see that you're this guy is a fucking freak,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, probably because they're all freaks.
Speaker 2: But so he's being questioned, they know that there's he
Speaker 2: denied all of it, and he willingly turned in his uniform.
Speaker 2: So we go to John Simms, who's a criminologist, and
Speaker 2: he is looking through the uniform, you know, microscope figuring
Speaker 2: it out, and it hits him that in the evidence
Speaker 2: bag there was a yellow fiber that matches the badge of.
Speaker 3: This police uniform.
Speaker 2: And so they do a test and they the jobs
Speaker 2: are insane. So we go to this next guy, and
Speaker 2: it's senior research microscopist.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's a wild job. That is a world What
Speaker 3: does that mean.
Speaker 2: He's the head of microscopes, microscopist bhierroscopist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so his name is Skimmed.
Speaker 2: And there's another skin too, but who has a different
Speaker 2: crazy job.
Speaker 3: We'll get to it.
Speaker 2: But the other Skip is a forensic undentologist.
Speaker 3: Oh like dental stuff. Oh, dentology. I'm glad you know
Speaker 3: it all.
Speaker 2: So we go to Skip, who's the professor wizard of microscopes,
Speaker 2: and he sees that the.
Speaker 3: Yellow fibers are the same.
Speaker 2: Of course that could be circumstantial eminence and the police
Speaker 2: chief guy, I don't I didn't even write his fucking
Speaker 2: name down. He still doesn't believe it. So he brings
Speaker 2: in a ton of other uniforms and those yellow fibers
Speaker 2: do not match. So this is like an exact match
Speaker 2: of the yellow fiber from his uniform that was found okay,
Speaker 2: with her also.
Speaker 3: On his uniform.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there were purple fibers from her slamants on him. Still, Yeah,
Speaker 2: purple fibers were found on his shit. They were an
Speaker 2: exact match for Kara's sweatpants.
Speaker 3: Whoa.
Speaker 1: They must have closed in on this like pretty quickly,
Speaker 1: because it sounds.
Speaker 3: Like, oh two weeks. Yeah, it took to it.
Speaker 1: It has happened in the next day, we say an SVU,
Speaker 1: where like nothing goes this quickly in the law and
Speaker 1: order like world, but.
Speaker 3: In this case, it seems like things move when.
Speaker 2: Everything's in duck center and they want to solve it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, and you know she was visiting her boyfriend
Speaker 2: like full sweatpants. That's a that's a that's a girlfriend
Speaker 2: not fit, that is a wifey outfit. So they sprayed
Speaker 2: his car with loo min all to check for blood.
Speaker 2: There was nothing, but they did find yellow rope underneath
Speaker 2: the spare tire and that is that's the rope. So
Speaker 2: one of the skips asked to look at the rope.
Speaker 2: Skips Berber, I don't know where all these skips.
Speaker 1: You have to be a forensic got ontologist if your
Speaker 1: name is Skips Berber.
Speaker 3: That's like the rules. I feel like God, I just
Speaker 3: want to find forensic love. Okay.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I would love or hate dating
Speaker 2: a forensic person, but it.
Speaker 1: Is they would hate it because you would ask a
Speaker 1: billion questions every day, like tell me about the trace evidence.
Speaker 3: Did you find a partial like you would?
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: I there was one blood splatter analyst at my show
Speaker 2: once in San Diego, actually at the La Joya comedy store,
Speaker 2: and yeah, I bothered him for a while afterwards, because
Speaker 2: you know, I do jokes about forensics.
Speaker 3: I love it. And he goes, guess what they also
Speaker 3: say blood spatter is bullshit? Now it is.
Speaker 2: He did other blood testings, but yeah, they said blood
Speaker 2: dexter's job is bullshit, not real.
Speaker 1: So the rope has like traces, like it's what you
Speaker 1: was used to strangle her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, they also find a tiny drop of blood
Speaker 2: on her shoes. Oh but the DNA this is in
Speaker 2: the eighties, the DNA technology was not there yet, but
Speaker 2: they of course kept it and it's sealed, and you know,
Speaker 2: they kept it and that's going to be important later on. Also, again, circumstantial.
Speaker 2: A lot of this evidence was circumstantial and not to
Speaker 2: like there was a mistrial. So the first time he
Speaker 2: was tried mistrial, and then the second time they hired
Speaker 2: a new prosecutor from like a different state to come
Speaker 2: and like the jury was more evenly split with the genders.
Speaker 2: But there was a mistrial because the evidence is circumstantial.
Speaker 2: So the blood type they found was AB and it's
Speaker 2: super rare and.
Speaker 3: It's his broll. My daughter has a b really yeah.
Speaker 2: And you love to give blood, so I'm sure Ray
Speaker 2: will be giving you yeah to the moment she can
Speaker 2: all do you have to be?
Speaker 3: I think too for people that don't know, Kara is
Speaker 3: really a member of the community. You help the community
Speaker 3: a lot, thank you. So yeah, he's a thirteen year vet.
Speaker 2: He got charged with first degree murder and it's like,
Speaker 2: how did the cops figure this? Yeah, which is like
Speaker 2: so fucking weird, it's sad and fucked. And the skid
Speaker 2: marks were equal to his car, yeah, obviously a police car.
Speaker 2: And they figured out that the bruise on her face
Speaker 2: was a flashlight, a police flash light the same size
Speaker 2: against again circumstantial.
Speaker 3: They couldn't put it.
Speaker 2: But the Marx left are the marks that would have
Speaker 2: been left by a police flashlight, and you know those
Speaker 2: are fucking.
Speaker 3: Heaviest, Yeah, like a light. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So the prosecutors think he like saw her pumping gas,
Speaker 2: was intrigued by her, followed her and then.
Speaker 3: Pulled her over.
Speaker 2: And she wasn't timid and she didn't want it, and
Speaker 2: I think she like fought back a little or didn't
Speaker 2: want to exit the car, like, just didn't give him
Speaker 2: what he wanted in whatever way. So they think that
Speaker 2: he hit her and then she passed out and then
Speaker 2: he realized, oh, she can id me. Yeah, so while
Speaker 2: she was unconscious, he strangled her with the rope.
Speaker 3: The fucked up thing.
Speaker 2: You know, they didn't find any fibers inside the cruiser.
Speaker 2: He put her on the hood of the car and
Speaker 2: drove to the bridge and flung her off, so you know,
Speaker 2: calculated and them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, very fucked up.
Speaker 2: But she didn't have to die. It was just because
Speaker 2: he wanted to keep his job. He loved being a cop.
Speaker 2: Like that's what all of the coworkers said that he
Speaker 2: was upset. I think that's what we're finding. If you're
Speaker 2: a cop, you should not want to be a cop,
Speaker 2: then you could be good, like if you always wanted
Speaker 2: to be a cop.
Speaker 3: There something is something that something's hinged in there. Yeah.
Speaker 3: They said that he had a hot pencil, that he
Speaker 3: loved it.
Speaker 2: Like ever, his whole identity was being on what hot
Speaker 2: pencil mean like that he was ready to write it tickets,
Speaker 2: He was like handing tickets to.
Speaker 3: Everyone he could and so hot pencil pyre.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he could have left it. He just didn't want
Speaker 2: to lose his job. So it's like it's so fucked up.
Speaker 1: You lost your freedom, and like you're you were not
Speaker 1: good at hiding it for the fact that you are
Speaker 1: a cop and you should know about this stuff.
Speaker 2: It's just so fucked up that all of it's fucked up.
Speaker 2: But he could have left turn to live.
Speaker 3: And you know, I yeah, he could have.
Speaker 1: I honestly, this sounds terrible, but I feel like he
Speaker 1: could have like framed it that she tried to attack
Speaker 1: him and that he did it in self defense. Like
Speaker 1: then it's just he said, she said, and she gets
Speaker 1: to live, you know, yeah, Like did he always have
Speaker 1: it in it is his first victim? Like we don't
Speaker 1: even know.
Speaker 2: And then also like all those other thirty women could
Speaker 2: have said something too, like why wasn't he ever scared
Speaker 2: of that that's going on the.
Speaker 1: Ailes when so many women that no one would report
Speaker 1: it or like get a badge number, but that's also
Speaker 1: the eighties or for them today, Like I mean, I
Speaker 1: definitely would be like what's your badge number? Like you know,
Speaker 1: a cop getting in your car is creepy, you know, and.
Speaker 2: Then like some of the advice he was giving on
Speaker 2: the news was like if you're about to be pulled over,
Speaker 2: or maybe it was something else I saw, but like
Speaker 2: you ask them to call more hell, like you don't
Speaker 2: get out, like you call the police and you double
Speaker 2: check or you're like, yeah, you send the chip like
Speaker 2: more police over, like if you want the guy was
Speaker 2: the fake cop, Like the fake cop pulls you over
Speaker 2: and you don't know, you could be like you should
Speaker 2: call NYPD by like make sure I don't know what
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 1: I mean back to the episode a little bit. It
Speaker 1: is like kind of I've talked to cops a few
Speaker 1: times in my life.
Speaker 3: I've never been like, show me your badge. Is this real?
Speaker 1: Like if someone's dressed in like a good enough outfit, right,
Speaker 1: I know, it's like scary to when.
Speaker 2: I think about hocus Pocus when the kids start talking
Speaker 2: to a cop on Halloween and it was a fake cop.
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's a monumental moment, how much
Speaker 2: crossover there is with true crime and focus, but.
Speaker 3: I'll probably a lot.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so it's all pretty upset, you know. Cara
Speaker 2: felt threat and trying to go he hit her. It's
Speaker 2: just it's really awful. And they mentioned how it's interesting
Speaker 2: that one yellow thread from his patch, this kind is.
Speaker 1: Why he got his nail in his coffin kind of yeah,
Speaker 1: but then can you're probably gonna get to this. But
Speaker 1: I was reading a little bit about this case that
Speaker 1: he's been up for parole several times and he's offered
Speaker 1: and they've offered him to submit his DNA and he
Speaker 1: denies it.
Speaker 2: He's still maintains his innocence, but he won't give DNA. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so they have the blood from the boot, right, So
Speaker 2: he keeps.
Speaker 3: Saying he's innocent.
Speaker 2: So they're like, listen, dude, we got the DNA, Like,
Speaker 2: give us your DNA and we'll clear it.
Speaker 3: And he's like nah, Yeah.
Speaker 2: So he's obviously guilty because who wouldn't use new technology
Speaker 2: to clear their name and get their job back. And
Speaker 2: you could probably sue the state, you know, like you
Speaker 2: could do so much. And he got twenty five years
Speaker 2: in prison, but.
Speaker 3: He keeps getting denied parole.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he's been up for a bunch of times,
Speaker 1: like in the past ten years.
Speaker 3: I feel like and he's not it's.
Speaker 2: And then this is a nice sad ending. The dad
Speaker 2: was visiting that spot and actually had a heart attack and.
Speaker 3: Died, And on the spot where she died, yeah.
Speaker 2: Like a few feet away there. They set up a
Speaker 2: bench and garden there, and they up kept. They do
Speaker 2: up keep to it because they love, love and miss
Speaker 2: their daughter so much. And he was there visiting and
Speaker 2: had a heart attack and died, and.
Speaker 3: He just was going to join her, yeah in heaven.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So if you lived in that case, I mean,
Speaker 2: I wonder what he as he gave. I don't know
Speaker 2: what I would do if I was like on and
Speaker 2: but it's also different. Like if let's say I'm speeding
Speaker 2: on a highway. There's lots of cars, I see a truck,
Speaker 2: there's a McDonald's one hundred feet away. I'll pull over.
Speaker 2: I'll give me a ticket whatever. There's like lots of evidence,
Speaker 2: there might be cameras. I because of shows like this,
Speaker 2: I and because of you know, looking at all these crimes.
Speaker 2: I think if it was nighttime there weren't a lot
Speaker 2: of cars, I would not stop. Yeah, I think I
Speaker 2: would call the police on my phone and be like
Speaker 2: someone's trying to pull me over.
Speaker 3: I don't trust it.
Speaker 2: It seems weird or like going off of a highway,
Speaker 2: But that's what that's the trouble is like we're taught
Speaker 2: to trust law enforcement, right, and it's dangerous and I
Speaker 2: want to know the fucking laws and rules of these
Speaker 2: costume stores uniforms. I know, were you in high school
Speaker 2: and like scrubs were in or maybe you were in college.
Speaker 3: Scabs were huge, and.
Speaker 1: So remember Dirty John he was just wearing scrubs all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but he was trying to be a doctor. No,
Speaker 3: he was.
Speaker 1: He was claiming to be an an aestesiologist. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: didn't work, I know.
Speaker 2: But if I just wore scrubs to classic, I wasn't
Speaker 2: trying to like lure a woman with money to fuck me.
Speaker 2: I was just trying to be hips. So I remember
Speaker 2: going to those stores and be like, how.
Speaker 3: Do you know?
Speaker 1: Yeah that is weird, Like even like a nurse, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. A cop is a really messed up
Speaker 1: form to sell A lot of the Army Navy. They
Speaker 1: sell like army stuff, but it's all kind of like
Speaker 1: just camo stuff. It's not like anyone's trying to like
Speaker 1: go run and impersonate a military person.
Speaker 2: And like get into a war. One time I went
Speaker 2: to the US Army Navy store. I called them and
Speaker 2: I was looking for Soviet shit for my dad and
Speaker 2: I was like, hey, do you have any Soviet shit?
Speaker 3: And they were so offended, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is aus military. I thought that I have lots
Speaker 3: of crap.
Speaker 2: From everywhere, and yeah, I just got hung up on
Speaker 2: in like a very aggression.
Speaker 1: Well I think that's because you were thinking of it
Speaker 1: as more of a costume store and they were thinking
Speaker 1: of it as like a lifestyle store.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they were really mad about that. Yeah, so that
Speaker 2: it is a really sad crime. You know, don't trust
Speaker 2: the police.
Speaker 1: I will actually say I was recently pulled over by
Speaker 1: a cop on my way to Colorado.
Speaker 3: I recently drove to Colorado. I was pulled over in Utah.
Speaker 1: The speed limit was eighty and I was going faster
Speaker 1: than that and I got away with a warning, and
Speaker 1: I had weed with me, and I just was never
Speaker 1: scared for a second because I was like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: a white woman, like, and I just feel bad that
Speaker 1: that's not the experience stuff like any person of color
Speaker 1: in this country.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: I was online today and there's like a young black dude,
Speaker 2: and he invented like this red little pop up folder
Speaker 2: that you hang on the outside of your window that
Speaker 2: has your insurance and all the documents, and it has
Speaker 2: like a clear thing to put your license to them.
Speaker 3: By the time the cop comes.
Speaker 1: Oh, you don't even have to open the window and
Speaker 1: do any oh, and.
Speaker 2: Then the cop can see where your hands are. It's
Speaker 2: just like sick that this is an invention that needs
Speaker 2: to happen. And I the thing is like, it doesn't
Speaker 2: matter what black people do if the goal of the
Speaker 2: cop is to kill them, right, you know, like it
Speaker 2: doesn't because there's been so many instances where black people
Speaker 2: are fully doing nothing and what's it called complying complying
Speaker 2: and still get shot and killed and murdered. So it's like,
Speaker 2: hopefully that helped, but it's like they have followed rules
Speaker 2: and been killed before. And you know, I'll be on
Speaker 2: I've been arrested a few times my early late teens
Speaker 2: early twenties before I was even twenty one. But I
Speaker 2: was driving drunk all over I would and looking for
Speaker 2: Burger king.
Speaker 3: No, So I was like a Mennas.
Speaker 2: I shove, I screamed, I would banged my head on
Speaker 2: the fish tank, like I said awful things to them.
Speaker 2: One time I was arrested, I went limp. They put
Speaker 2: handcuffs on me and I went boneless. I went boneless
Speaker 2: and they had to drag me. I was just I
Speaker 2: shut doors. I hit a cop like I truly was
Speaker 2: a fucking monster.
Speaker 3: And nothing happened to you. I served two days in jail.
Speaker 2: No in terms of getting correct, like assaulted correct because
Speaker 2: I do.
Speaker 3: Fight with family that are not agreeing with me on
Speaker 3: a lot of stuff. And that's like what I always say,
Speaker 3: I go.
Speaker 2: Can you imagine if that day that cop decided to
Speaker 2: shoot me, and everyone on television and on the internet
Speaker 2: was saying I fucking deserved it because I was a
Speaker 2: dumb bitch and that I deserve to die, and they
Speaker 2: usually go silent there, but it's fucked up.
Speaker 1: And in this case, this was a predator against women.
Speaker 1: He was probably pulling women over of all colors and creeds,
Speaker 1: but he was like fully just trying to intimidate women.
Speaker 3: And then and that's.
Speaker 2: Fucked up down that you say that, because it's like
Speaker 2: what if I'm like I don't trust you, I'm making
Speaker 2: sure you're a real cop, go fuck yourself, Like I
Speaker 2: probably even also have the privilege to be able to
Speaker 2: do that.
Speaker 3: Rude.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what if a black woman was like I'm gonna
Speaker 2: figure it out out, it would be like she's on
Speaker 2: the run or something like.
Speaker 3: Its fucked up.
Speaker 2: But I'm glad I have my violent cop story to
Speaker 2: use as proof for ammunition for her family arguments, for
Speaker 2: family cop arguments, because it's just like the way people
Speaker 2: try to find reasons why it was okay to kill
Speaker 2: someone is so fucked up. And I feel like I
Speaker 2: gave a cop a million reasons to hit me, yeah,
Speaker 2: or to do worse to me.
Speaker 3: To do something, yeah, like hit you or you know,
Speaker 3: a soul.
Speaker 2: And I got arrested twice in three weeks. Woo, you
Speaker 2: were on a tear girl.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Anyway, that was a great recap and I'm excited to
Speaker 1: talk to our guests. Okay, time for our guest interview.
Speaker 1: We're so excited to have this next actor on the show.
Speaker 3: He is a Law and Order staple.
Speaker 1: I believe he's been on, if not all of the franchises.
Speaker 1: He's definitely been on Original Recipe and SVU. People know
Speaker 1: him as Danny Noonan from Caddie Shack. He also has
Speaker 1: recently appeared in City on the Hill with Brian Cranston
Speaker 1: on Amazon.
Speaker 3: He's been on Sneaky Pete.
Speaker 1: He has honestly a very very big IMDb that you
Speaker 1: should check out. And we've just will a little note
Speaker 1: really quickly that his audio starts out a little shaky
Speaker 1: because we are in quarantine, but just stick with it.
Speaker 1: It really clears up, and guys, we're really jazz to
Speaker 1: talk to Officer Marcosi himself.
Speaker 3: Michael O'Keeffe, Well, what's amazing about you? Michael? You've been
Speaker 3: multiple characters in SVU.
Speaker 2: We were talking about the episode Counterfeit, but you've played
Speaker 2: priest cop and dad of victim. So Counterfeit you're like
Speaker 2: a bad cop, but you're not the baddest cop. Like
Speaker 2: you don't end up being the murderer, but you just
Speaker 2: have sex with sex workers, but you end up helping
Speaker 2: the SVU unit find the bad cop.
Speaker 3: And it's like a person pretending to be a copy.
Speaker 4: I'm the red herring in that episode. Yes, yes, exactly,
Speaker 4: you know, And just so you know, it could sound
Speaker 4: to some people off putting that actors need to be
Speaker 4: reminded of what they actually did when they did that,
Speaker 4: But it's one of those things, especially with Law and Order,
Speaker 4: like you know what I have you remind me of
Speaker 4: the show is like right, yeah, okay, yeah I did that. Okay, okay, yeah,
Speaker 4: now I'm back. I'm back remember this now.
Speaker 1: Well, to be fair, it was season three and the
Speaker 1: show's beginning. It's twenty second season, so it was a
Speaker 1: little bit ago. We don't blame you for kind of
Speaker 1: forgetting and you've been at yeah you have, like Sun.
Speaker 4: Can I do another SVU with Amanda say free wasn't?
Speaker 3: Yes, Yeah, that's the one where you play the dad.
Speaker 4: Father and then they saw it. I was once again
Speaker 4: the red Herring.
Speaker 3: But then you were a priest and you were mad,
Speaker 3: oh oh that Yeah.
Speaker 4: That's the one where he had the gay lover right
Speaker 4: and he was taking me yes, which was more or
Speaker 4: less ripped from the headlines.
Speaker 1: Yes, so out of those three episodes, I know, it's
Speaker 1: like a little bit you're kind of searching your memory
Speaker 1: for them. But do you like, was there a favorite
Speaker 1: of your roles, Like did you love playing the priest
Speaker 1: more than the cop, more than the dad or no?
Speaker 4: I mean it was great to connect with Amanda because
Speaker 4: we ended up becoming friends again. Later on in life.
Speaker 4: She actually married and that guard had worked with Tommy Sadowski.
Speaker 4: They now have a daughter named Nina, and Amanda and
Speaker 4: I just did a movie at the end of last
Speaker 4: year beginning of this year that's going to be on
Speaker 4: Netflix called Things Were Be Seen, so that relationship was great.
Speaker 4: And then the first order SVU that I did was
Speaker 4: produced by my very good friend Ted Katcha, who had
Speaker 4: done a feature I did years and years ago called
Speaker 4: Split Image, So this all gets tied together. When I
Speaker 4: did the movie with Amanda, I played a sheriff searching
Speaker 4: for her murderer. She gets murdered in the movie and
Speaker 4: bot spoiler, and my wife in the movie is Karen Allen.
Speaker 3: Oh love Karen Allen?
Speaker 4: Right. Well, when Ted Kotcha directed Karen and I in
Speaker 4: a movie forty years ago in nineteen eighty in which
Speaker 4: we played lovers, Got You, Got You, we got cast
Speaker 4: his husband and wife forty years later in this movie
Speaker 4: with Amanda, and the directors a couple named Bob Pulcini
Speaker 4: and Shari Redman had no idea that Karen and I
Speaker 4: had worked together and were boyfriend and girlfriend. Afterwards, at
Speaker 4: the time. So then Ted was responsible for bringing me
Speaker 4: into that first spu.
Speaker 1: So when you say, like, oh, Ted Kotcheff brot me
Speaker 1: in on this or Warren, like, you never auditioned for
Speaker 1: a Law and Order, you just kind of like get
Speaker 1: these parts offered.
Speaker 4: Pretty much, Lawn Order franchise has always called and just
Speaker 4: say we could come and you know, and be on
Speaker 4: the show. I don't think I ever auditioned for and
Speaker 4: I've done a few. Now I heard another thing about them.
Speaker 4: You might want to know about Law and Order, which
Speaker 4: may or may not be true, but I say it
Speaker 4: kind of feels true.
Speaker 3: Is we love an unverified rumor go ahead?
Speaker 4: Yeah that, well, then you know you've come to the
Speaker 4: right actor. I did so many of them that Dick Wolfe,
Speaker 4: the showrunner, said to his producers, you cannot have Michael
Speaker 4: O'Keeffe on one of the Law and Orders until he's
Speaker 4: until it's been six months since you've on the last.
Speaker 4: And that's going to be called the O'Keefe rule. And
Speaker 4: that o'keef rule is now in place for all actors.
Speaker 4: If you have an actor on one Lawn Order franchise
Speaker 4: months before they're on the next one. So I think
Speaker 4: that's actually a thing, like it's called the and wow.
Speaker 2: Well, because we're in a big debate about that about
Speaker 2: characters being reused.
Speaker 1: And when they're because I had, like, we've seen every episode.
Speaker 1: I'm sort of a purist, and I'm like, if I've
Speaker 1: seen you as a dirty cop, I still remember you,
Speaker 1: like five years later as the dad and I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's not a cop anymore.
Speaker 3: He's a different person.
Speaker 2: But the best is they had one woman as she
Speaker 2: murdered a stripper and then she became the DA and
Speaker 2: was the like lead attorney for seasons.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I love them. They bring people back.
Speaker 1: No, I think it's obviously for actors, it's great to
Speaker 1: bring people back. I'm just joking as like a viewer
Speaker 1: that I'm like, I recognize these people.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, of course. And you know it's a New
Speaker 4: York thing. You know, it's it's a New York based show.
Speaker 4: All the shows are made in New York and it's
Speaker 4: a great thing for New York City actors. And you know,
Speaker 4: I'm not a New York City actor anymore. I live
Speaker 4: in country not so far from New York. But it's
Speaker 4: one of those things where it kind of it's a
Speaker 4: very well oiled machine.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 4: They have these studios over at Chelsea Piers and the
Speaker 4: crews are amazing. The directors are always great. And some
Speaker 4: of the directors like I had worked with years before.
Speaker 4: One was a camera operator and who'd worked his way
Speaker 4: up to being a director. I know there was a
Speaker 4: DP and other was you know, a friend. So there
Speaker 4: there's this kind of not predictability but almost kind of
Speaker 4: like you know, collegial saying that happens on the Law
Speaker 4: and Order where it's just like they just love the
Speaker 4: New York pool of actors and they just keep bringing
Speaker 4: them around again and again and again, which you know,
Speaker 4: New York City actors don't get as much work, generally
Speaker 4: speaking as the television actors in Los Angeles, because there's
Speaker 4: not as much done here.
Speaker 2: No, whenever I go to see a play off Broadway
Speaker 2: or a Broadway the playbill is always filled with sv
Speaker 2: credits and always I hear that's.
Speaker 4: Like a trivia game, like when people go to this
Speaker 4: theater though, like which order of one order? I see
Speaker 4: this guy, and and what do you play? And I
Speaker 4: think when you're playing a guest star on those shows,
Speaker 4: whether it's SVU or the original whatever it is. You're
Speaker 4: always the criminal of the week, or you know, in
Speaker 4: the case of SVU, per over of the week because
Speaker 4: the regulars are the ones who have to have the
Speaker 4: moral high ground and somebody else has to you know,
Speaker 4: allowed them that. So you're always being called and it's
Speaker 4: like you have an order to do SBU.
Speaker 2: You're like, yeah, okay, Well that's why the Counterfeit episode
Speaker 2: was exciting because we obviously assumed it was you the
Speaker 2: whole time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and there was a little twist.
Speaker 1: Michael, I know you mentioned the Netflix movie that can
Speaker 1: you say again what the Netflix movie.
Speaker 4: Is called Coming Out? Well, things heard and scene with
Speaker 4: a man is safety and James Norton. I'm really looking
Speaker 4: forward to seeing that. And I did a pilot with
Speaker 4: John c Riley for HBO about the acquisition of Magic
Speaker 4: Johnson for the Los Angeles Lakers, and he plays Jerry
Speaker 4: Buss and I played Jack Kent Cook, the guy who
Speaker 4: sold Jerry Bus to the Lakers. And I'm doing this
Speaker 4: a little bit on a City on a Hill for
Speaker 4: Showtime with Kevin Bacon and Aldus homage.
Speaker 3: Wow, you're busy. Well that's awesome.
Speaker 1: Well, our listeners will all know where to find you
Speaker 1: and look out for your work.
Speaker 3: And thanks for and thank.
Speaker 2: You so muchy and taking the nominated guest for us. Yeah,
Speaker 2: pretty thrilliant.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm thrilled to be here. I'm glad you guys
Speaker 4: gave me the nod as were. It's nice to be
Speaker 4: singled out. So as for you fans, see.
Speaker 3: You later, all right, that was amazing. That was amazing.
Speaker 3: Post mortem.
Speaker 1: Listen, this is our post mortem. Let's break down what
Speaker 1: we think. I mean, I'll tell you what I learned.
Speaker 3: What did you like? If I commit a crime, I'm
Speaker 3: not going to go on the news.
Speaker 2: And advertise the Yeah, so I think that's what I've learned.
Speaker 2: If I'm going to want to spree, I'm not gonna
Speaker 2: go on Barney and be.
Speaker 3: Like, don't do this. Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean i'd like to say, like I want women
Speaker 1: to feel empowered to like speak up against bad cops,
Speaker 1: but like scary, poor care girl fought back and lost
Speaker 1: your life.
Speaker 2: So I think the lesson is, if you're getting pulled
Speaker 2: over on a dark, creepy movie set type spot right,
Speaker 2: keep it, keep it.
Speaker 1: Fish, get pull over at a gas station, pull over
Speaker 1: underneath a street lamp, like somewhere where there's like light
Speaker 1: and people and we're.
Speaker 3: On the highway. Yeah, yeah, least a highway, don't go
Speaker 3: on some exit ramp. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean we're not victim blaming. You're not victim blaming.
Speaker 1: We're just saying, this is just something that I'm going
Speaker 1: to take with me.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: If I ever get pulled over and the cop asks
Speaker 2: me to pull over somewhere, I hope that I'm in
Speaker 2: a position where I can not follow the rules. And
Speaker 2: that's dangerous for people too. I mean, it's all fucking dangerous.
Speaker 2: That's the scary thing. No matter what the right thing
Speaker 2: you think is, there's fucking risks involved.
Speaker 3: There's risks everywhere.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: Also, a lesson from the episode is like, beware of
Speaker 1: people that are like police junkies, like people that like
Speaker 1: love cop stuff and are like I want to dress
Speaker 1: up like a cop.
Speaker 3: I want to buy Yeah.
Speaker 2: They have a lot of books about shit killers, cops,
Speaker 2: criminal justice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and the going to law school.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's actually a really good one. I also want
Speaker 2: to say, don't let your boss pay for your apartment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, come on, guys, that's suck your boss. But don't
Speaker 3: get if maybe actually I.
Speaker 2: Take it back, have your boss pay for your apartment
Speaker 2: and cheat on his wife who cares. No, don't fuck
Speaker 2: people that are gonna call you mousey and ugly. I
Speaker 2: say that right, It's a good lesson to learn. And
Speaker 2: don't wear a gold necklace. You will be presumed guilty,
Speaker 2: as I'm wearing two gold necklaces.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 1: My major takeaway also from the episode is vodka and
Speaker 1: coke with no ice is the most disgusting drink I
Speaker 1: can think of. Yeah, okay, now it is time for
Speaker 1: what would Sister Peg Do? Which is our weekly segment
Speaker 1: where we give you some resource or an action item
Speaker 1: to do that is related to the episode. Today, we
Speaker 1: would encourage everybody to join Karen Nott's family in writing
Speaker 1: to the California Governor Gavin Newsom to block an early
Speaker 1: release for Craig pie Or, the officer found guilty of
Speaker 1: murdering her. He is allegedly eligible for an early release
Speaker 1: due to COVID and overcrowding. They have, for some reason,
Speaker 1: deemed him to be non violent. I disagree. This is
Speaker 1: an officer who harassed his position for years and finally
Speaker 1: escalated to taking someone's life, and we do not think
Speaker 1: he should be out on the street. So if you
Speaker 1: guys go to our show notes, there will be a
Speaker 1: link that takes you write to an email form that
Speaker 1: will help you easily write to Governor Newsom and tell
Speaker 1: him you'd like to speak out against an early release
Speaker 1: for Craig Pyre and we plan on doing that ourselves
Speaker 1: as well.
Speaker 2: Next week we'll be doing a credo, which is season twenty,
Speaker 2: episode five, and it is a good one. As always,
Speaker 2: Hulu has all the episodes Peacock, and we had one
Speaker 2: person right in saying she has all the DVDs, so
Speaker 2: you can always invest in those as well.
Speaker 1: And if you are driving right now and you're like,
Speaker 1: you can't write down what our next episode is, remember
Speaker 1: that we do post it. We are now posting it
Speaker 1: in our show notes what the next episode will be,
Speaker 1: and we are also posting it on our social media,
Speaker 1: both our Twitter and our Instagram every Thursday.
Speaker 3: See you next week. Bye. That's Messed Up as an
Speaker 3: exactly right production.
Speaker 2: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 2: episodes you like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 2: at That's Messed Up pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 1: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up pod
Speaker 1: and on Twitter at Messed Up Pod, and follow us
Speaker 1: personally at Kara Clank and at Glitter Cheese. As always,
Speaker 1: please see our show notes for sources and more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer and fellow s
Speaker 2: V super fan Hannah Kyle Craton.
Speaker 1: Thank you to our heroes Stephen Ray Morris and Annalie
Speaker 1: Snelson are engineers.
Speaker 2: To Henry Kaperski Musical Extraordinaire for our theme song.
Speaker 1: To our artistic Queen, Carly gen Andrews for all of
Speaker 1: our artwork. Thank you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start,
Speaker 1: Karen Kilgareff, Danielle Kramer, and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 2: Listen, subscribe, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher,
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts. Dug